Re: [FRIAM] Off the wall question about turbulence

[Carl Tollander]

More I look at it... Looks like there were a lot of shortcuts in the wall.
 If they didn't make a clean-outable P trap, hmm, maybe they shortchanged
the vent.
I also notice the HVAC duct vent on the floor, suggesting somebody used the
between-studs area as a way to move heat/cool around without ducting ,
which is consistent with the dust and webs there.   Suggest you take out
some more sheetrock above the T joint and see if there is one of those
faux-drain vent things in the wall, in which case the drain pipe maybe
doesn't go all the way to the roof and you don't need a ladder yet.   The
faux-drain vent thing might have gotten gummed up with all the dust and
crap from the faux heating duct.

In any case, the inadequate drain vent issue matches the problem as well as
my experience in my own place, and fixing that (sucks to do in the winter)
improved things dramatically.

C

On Tue, Nov 28, 2023 at 3:21 PM cody dooderson  wrote:

> I started a spreadsheet to keep track of all of these suggestions. Feel
> free to edit as you see fit.
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e4wnqGcQiBh_-hZ2VF0jC892cqdoJOV97weprzwpgcg/edit?usp=sharing
>
>
> _ Cody Smith _
> c...@simtable.com
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2023 at 2:06 PM Carl Tollander  wrote:
>
>> Go up on roof, make sure drain vent is not clogged by debris.  Improper
>> or badly installed drain venting slows things down a lot.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 7:42 AM Prof David West 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> When the washer drains, water flows for a bit, then you hear the pipe
>>> filling up and water comes out the top. Pause the flow, water drains
>>> quickly, start and pipe fills again. Cycle till rate of flow subsides.
>>>
>>> Question: can turbulence occur at the u-trap and cause a temporary
>>> blockage?  If yes, does the  turbulence occur because of the distance from
>>> entry to the u-trap?
>>>
>>> Will ask plumber — but prior discussions of turbulence on the list made
>>> me think it might pose an interesting problem..
>>>
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Re: [FRIAM] Off the wall question about turbulence

[Carl Tollander]

Go up on roof, make sure drain vent is not clogged by debris.  Improper or
badly installed drain venting slows things down a lot.

Carl


On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 7:42 AM Prof David West 
wrote:

> When the washer drains, water flows for a bit, then you hear the pipe
> filling up and water comes out the top. Pause the flow, water drains
> quickly, start and pipe fills again. Cycle till rate of flow subsides.
>
> Question: can turbulence occur at the u-trap and cause a temporary
> blockage?  If yes, does the  turbulence occur because of the distance from
> entry to the u-trap?
>
> Will ask plumber — but prior discussions of turbulence on the list made me
> think it might pose an interesting problem..
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Science Fiction Books

[Carl Tollander]

Gregory Benford's "Galactic Center Saga".
Greg Bear's "Darwin's Radio" and "The Way" series.
Benford, Bear, and David Brin also extended Asimov's "Foundation" series -
more stuff actually happens
Larry Niven's "Ringworld" and all its spinoffs and prequels, anything with
the character Louis Wu in it.
Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age"
Bruce Sterling's "Distraction"
Anything by Terry Pratchett.
Adrian Tchaikovsky's "Children of Time" and sequels.
Lin Carter's short story "Masters of the Metropolis"

That should keep you busy for a few days.  I suspect not everyone would
think of these as optimistic.

I would like to feed Timothy Snyder's Youtube lectures on Ukraine
and Neal Stephenson's "Quicksilver"
and Eiji Yoshikawa's "Taiko"
into the AI and see what millennium long sci-fi it could turn out.
How would what it writes be different if it could be taught to write using
a nib pen a la Stephenson or a brush on washi paper?

R.A. Lafferty wrote sometime ago "Arrive at Easterwine" about a computer
writing a novel from a mashup perspective of its creators.

Carl


On Sun, Sep 3, 2023 at 11:13 AM Jochen Fromm  wrote:

> I have read "Highway of Eternity" from Clifford D. Simak this weekend, one
> of the books from the golden age of science fiction which is comparable to
> "The city and the Stars" from Arthur C. Clarke and "The end of eternity"
> from Isaac Asimov. Both belong to my favorite books. Modern authors don't
> write like this anymore. Their books are often gloomy and depressive, and
> do not span millions of years. What is your favorite science fiction book?
> Will the AI breakthrough in large language models lead to more optimistic
> science fiction books again?
>
> -J.
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Cool AI Tools of the Week - ChatGPT Website Builder & More!

[Carl Tollander]

Then there's the app that writes an AI newsletter, invents aspirational AI
apps based on what you clicked on in the last newsletter, thereby creating
a broader market for their development.



On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 10:51 PM Tom Johnson  wrote:

> They just keep comin'
> I haven't tested any of these.
> TJ
>
> ===
> Tom Johnson
> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
> Santa Fe, New Mexico
> 505-577-6482
> ===
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Vivek from Futurepedia 
> Date: Fri, Mar 24, 2023, 9:30 PM
> Subject: Cool AI Tools of the Week - ChatGPT Website Builder & More!
> To: 
>
>
> PLUS: ChatGPT Plugins and Google Bard
> View in browser
> 
>
> Hey there 👋, this is your weekly AI newsletter!
>
> We have added 84 new tools in the last week. Here are some of the most
> interesting ones -
> 🤖 AI Tools of the Week
>
> *Scrip AI *- Create short videos 30-sec to 60-sec scripts using AI (link
> 
> )
>
>
> *GooGPT *- Get ChatGPT results combined with Google search results. (link
> 
> )
>
>
> *Locofy* - Turn your designs into production-ready front-end code for
> mobile apps and the web. (link
> 
> )
>
>
> *Fluentify *-  Free and open-source “Copilot for the web” (link
> 
> )
>
>
> *MyGPT* - ChatGPT with inbuilt prompt library (link
> 
> )
>
>
> *Website ChatGPT Builder *- Easily create and customize websites using a
> UI similar to ChatGPT. Over 200K+ websites have been generated - Generate
> yours now! (*link*
> )
> *
>
>
> * Sponsor
> 🖼️ AI Image of the Week
>
> *Snoop Dogg in The Office. *
>
> I recommend checking out the source for pics of Snoop in 19 more TV shows.
>
> Source
> 
> 📰 AI News of the Week
>
> I am going to be much more selective what I put here going forward, with
> focus being only on the most important updates.
>
>
> *1. ChatGPT Plugins*
>
> OpenAi has just launched *a plugins marketplace* that will allow
> developers to create custom plugins which integrate with ChatGPT.
>
> Some of the plugins already demo-ed are Instacart (Use it to automatically
> make grocery lists), WolframAlpha (Get accurate scientific calculations),
> and more. It also comes with *a web browser and code interpreter. *
>
> Read more about it here
> 
>  or watch this short video
> 
>  to
> understand it better.
>
>
> *2. Google Bard*
>
> Google Bard was released this week as well. It seems to be quite behind
> ChatGPT when it comes to accuracy, but is much faster at generating
> responses.
>
> Check out this Techradar article
> 
> on it.
>
>
> And that's a wrap for this week's newsletter! As always, feel free to
> reply with any suggestions or feedback!
>
>
> Futurepedia
>
>
> [image: linkedin]
> 
>  [image:
> twitter]
> 
>  [image:
> youtube]
> 

Re: [FRIAM] Who wrote the essay?

[Carl Tollander]

Inconsistent use of punctuation.  Run-on sentences.  Human, or a chatbot
that's trying too hard to look human.

C


On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 11:39 AM Nicholas Thompson 
wrote:

> I think it's a human.   No selfrespecting bot could write that badly.
>
> n
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:09 PM Tom Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/5722102/posts/pfbid0D8i4GuCUJeRsDJjM1JJtfkDYDMCb7Y7RdK2EoyVhRuctg9z2fhvpo1bB2WAxGBzcl/?sfnsn=mo&mibextid=ijjfgs
>>
>> ===
>> Tom Johnson
>> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
>> Santa Fe, New Mexico
>> 505-577-6482
>> ===
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Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement

[Carl Tollander]

Sabine Hossenfelder holds forth on fusion and measures of break-even.  Over
a year old, but still
http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2021/10/how-close-is-nuclear-fusion-power.html


On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 4:37 PM glen  wrote:

> That's why I asked. I guess I'll assume DT means both deuterium and
> tritium, not just deuterium. If you were going to track fuel use, you'd
> track the rarer part more closely, right?
>
> On 12/13/22 09:22, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> > DT = deuterium?
> >
> > ---
> > Frank C. Wimberly
> > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> > Santa Fe, NM 87505
> >
> > 505 670-9918
> > Santa Fe, NM
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 10:21 AM glen  geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Awesome. Thanks. I'm still trying to catch up with the QC Wormhole
> kerfuffle. Who knew Quanta was so click baity?
> >
> > What is "DT"?
> >
> > On 12/13/22 09:02, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> >  > In case no one wanted to get up at 7:00am to watch DOE
> administrators talk:
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > 1. Controlling the laser in space and time was important for
> maintaining symmetry.  Timing precision of 25e-12 secs and laser spatial
> precision of 5e-12 meter were needed.  This was thought to be the main
> explanation for the achievement.
> >  >
> >  > 2. 8% more power on the laser this time
> >  >
> >  > 3. x-ray tomography is used to find flaws in the capsules.
> Developing software to do the counting.
> >  >
> >  > 4. They have ongoing efforts to study the fabrication systems and
> their components (done in Germany) to find idiosyncrasies of each.
> >  >
> >  > 5. Laser technology improvements since NIF was built which are
> 20% more efficient.
> >  >
> >  > 6. Target cost is from labor, and it takes 7 months each
> >  >
> >  > 7. 4% of DT is burned in a shot
> >  >
> >  > 8. Machine learning ties together radiation hydrodynamics and
> experimental data.   (It sounded preliminary.)
> >  >
> >  > 9. The (successful) capsule had more defects than previous
> experiments.   However, previous experiments did show benefits from capsule
> quality.
> >  >
> >  > 10. 15% of experiments are indirect drive of this kind, 15% of
> experiments are other approaches to ignition.  The rest are weapons and
> materials characterization.
> >  >
> >  > 11. Anomalous laser directional control were problems in the
> summer runs.   Fixed that.
>
>
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Obligatory (and gratuitous?) screed about time changes.

[Carl Tollander]

OK, then.  Ken Nordine on Time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVYpCdY4Y_0


On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 4:33 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Protection_Act#:~:text=The%20bill%20received%20bipartisan%20support,consent%20on%20March%2015%2C%202022.
> steeeve
> It's a BFD to me because of GP. mucking about with the clock a ruining
> winter is dumb.
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 4:26 PM glen  wrote:
>
>> Honestly, I just don't get why it's such a big deal. Sure, it's obsolete.
>> And maybe it kills a few people, raises cortisol, etc. But there are so
>> many other things that affect our (sleep) cycles soo much more, like
>> obesity, alcoholism, wage slavery, TikTok fomo, ... on and on. Passing such
>> a law feels like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Or maybe
>> complaining about how a reporter discussing Putin mispronounces "nukular"
>> ... an odd thing to complain about while the ICBM heads your way.
>>
>>
>> On 11/4/22 15:17, Steve Smith wrote:
>> >
>> > On 11/4/22 4:14 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
>> >> Didn't the sunshine act already pass? but yes I agree I despise the
>> clock change bull sh It takes effect next year unless Turtle neck had
>> his usual tantrum.
>> >
>> >  From the linked article:
>> >
>> > /Earlier this year, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed bipartisan
>> legislation to abolish clock changes and make daylight saving time
>> permanent, beginning in 2023. Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida,
>> introducedthe Sunshine Protection Act <
>> https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623>//, and
>> Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, was among the co-sponsors./
>> >
>> > /"Glad the Senate has passed the Sunshine Protection Act so
>> Oregonians aren’t springing back & forth each year in a silly exercise that
>> hurts everybody’s health & our economy," Wyden tweeted March 15. "Time now
>> for the House to act."/
>> >
>> > /In June 2022, the U.S. House failed to pass the bill, which is now
>> stalled and scheduled to expire in December./
>> >
>> > /Let the debate resume in March 2023./
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 4:10 PM Steve Smith  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> as we all know I'm no fan of semi-annual clock changes... and I
>> thought the Sunshine Act <
>> https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623>would put
>> an end to that nonsense even if did fall on the "wrong side" with a
>> year-round DST timesqew.   Looks like it is going to fail despite
>> bipartisan support in the Senate (unsurprising that Florida, closest to the
>> equator, effected least, would be the one to sponsor/promote it?)...
>> >>
>> >> Oregon (in coordination with CA/WA) have tried to take things into
>> their own hands independent of the rest of the country?
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2022/11/03/oregon-daylight-saving-time-november-march/69613463007/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I suppose I could live with the sqew and just change the idioms
>> from 12 noon and 12 midnight to 11 noon and 11 midnight and call it a
>> day/year/life.   Seems like it would just make more sense to sqew the 8-5
>> (or 9-4) for bankers) an hour earlier instead, but what is the point of
>> having a state/federal/global government if it isn't going to decide for
>> you how we index time?
>> >>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>>
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Re: [FRIAM] signal and noise

[Carl Tollander]

It might be instructive to shop for microphones.  Many studio audio
components (e.g. mics) have a "noise floor", roughly the amount of noise
added to the gain structure (e.g. some sequence of components, mics,
preamps, etc) so the "mixer" can tell where to profitably apply various
add-ons (compressors etc) to boost or attenuate bits and pieces of the
recorded sound.  For example, I have here an Audio Technica AT2020
condenser microphone (not a Colt revolver) with a certain frequency
response, a noise floor, an open circuit sensitivity (?) , a dynamic range,
an SNR, and so on.  It takes awhile to figure all this out, and at some
point you just Paypal it.  I sort of know what these things are, but even
naively I do hear huge differences from my Shure SM-57s. Rabbit hole
warning (you may never fully emerge from
https://www.youtube.com/c/TheHouseofKushTV/videos ), but my point being
that for any noise-ridden context there is much fiddly, and just SNR is not
by itself all that descriptive in the audio technician world.

Disclaimer, I'm not an audio technician, just rubbing up against that world
while trying to make my Taiko Zoom lessons better.  And then there's video,
oh, my.

Carl,
aspiring shop-man.



On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 7:11 PM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> I always thought "shoot oneself in the foot" was inspired by cowboy
> gunfighters who were in such a hurry to draw fast that they pulled the
> trigger before getting their gun out of the holster.
>
> I have a Colt 1873 revolver.  I'll see if that makes sense.  Joke!
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 6:52 PM  wrote:
>
>> I was actually rendered speechless by Jochem's post, and the website it
>> contained.
>>
>> Verbose as I am, I am sure that all of you are grateful when I honor
>> something with my silence.
>>
>> I am thinking more about metaphor these days and trying to reconcile
>> metaphor with monism.  I may have to become a metaphor monist.
>>
>> A metaphor is real when it is that toward which our thinking trends in
>> the very long run.  Oddly enough, given your alertness to dead metaphors,
>> a metaphor can lose its reality, as did "hoist by one's own petard" or
>> change its reality as " shoot oneself in the foot" which I am guessing used
>> to mean "to intentionally incapacitate oneself" and now means "to
>> accidently do something self destructively stupid."
>>
>> If we are metaphor monists, we believe that "all thought is in metaphors"
>> and that all metaphors are to other metaphors.  Eric will instantly
>> announce that  Ihave fallen prey to blather.  Perhaps so.  But I hope to
>> cash this out in the next few months.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> N
>>
>> Nick Thompson
>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Friam  On Behalf Of Prof David West
>> Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 6:23 PM
>> To: friam@redfish.com
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] signal and noise
>>
>> Nick,
>>
>> noise is the signal - no a koan at all, but a conjecture that all that is
>> considered noise, at this point, will eventually be revealed as signal. In
>> part because, I believe, that the 'noise' is essential context for
>> interpreting the signal. This is based almost entirely on natural language
>> where syntax is inadequate for conveying meaning.
>>
>> And, I was surprised when you failed to find justification from Jochen's
>> post about metaphor and how it supports (y)our long held position that it
>> is "metaphors all the way down."
>>
>> All,
>>
>> Thank you for the thoughtful responses to my question. I take to heart
>> Glen's cautions about over generalization and "othering."  None of the
>> conversations I was referring to were binary, and all were comprised of
>> nuanced polyphonic positions from all participants with points of agreement
>> as frequent as disagreement. More empathy than othering.
>>
>> It does seem to me that if and when there was any kind of 'final
>> divergence' it centered around a kind of signal-noise dichotomy along with
>> an assertion of 'faith': e.g., anything human can do,HAL will do better;
>> or, just say OM and drop acid.
>>
>> davew
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, at 10:22 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > David,
>> >
>> > I was with you until "signal is the noise".  Great Koan, but otherwise
>> > useless for thought.
>> >
>> > When you say, however, that there is a signal in what others take to
>> > be noise, of course I have to prick up my ears.  A great example of
>> > this was that "junk" DNA which turned out to be, at least, structural.
>> > It also turned out to be a mind of memory.  Junk Schmunk.
>> >
>> > N
>> >
>> > Nick Thompson
>> > thompnicks...@gmail.com
>> > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Friam  On Behalf Of Prof David West
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2022 7:12 PM
>> > To: friam@redfish.com
>> > Subject: [F

Re: [FRIAM] Urgent care with short wait?

[Carl Tollander]

CVS at Cerrillos and Siler has a walk-in clinic .


On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 1:34 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> [redacted]!!
> In short was prescribed two kinds of antibiotics but have a bad reaction a
> cream one. ALas my doctor is busy. And Presby has no Appointements.
> Where all would have a short wait?
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Re: [FRIAM] self-care

[Carl Tollander]

Well, hypocrisy is not an argument.   Our reach exceeds our grasp, is all.
C


On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 12:53 PM glen  wrote:

> What's a bit bizarre about Sarbajit's accusation of hypocrisy is the
> overwhelming diversity of US Government components. It would make sense to
> accuse a single agency, say, the FDA of something like hypocrisy. But even
> there, we have different regimes ran by different people and there's a
> turnover of individuals within the affiliated organizations.
>
> I suppose this is the heart of the "stare decisis" arguments against
> willy-nilly overturning "precedent" and cross administration changes like
> Trump rejecting the nuclear deal with Iran. It reminds me of the Citizens
> United ruling and the false equivalence between national debt/deficit and
> household debt.
>
> Can a materially open thing like a (somewhat) representative government be
> *hypocritical*? What is hypocrisy, really?
>
>
> On 7/3/22 18:23, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Sarbajit,
> >
> > Could you post materials on the Guttmacher dispute and the science
> behind it?
> >
> > I am guessing that this is all new to us.
> >
> > As to hypocrisy, the term is only appropriate to a unified system,
> usually a person.  But perhaps the metaphor works the other way around.
> Perhaps people are just badly integrated systems, hence sin in all its
> form, deception, hypocrisy, loving thy neighbor too well, and all of that!
> So instead of saying that governments are sort of like people, we might say
> that people are sort of like governments.
> >
> > N
> >
> > Nick Thompson
> >
> > thompnicks...@gmail.com 
> >
> > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ <
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
> >
> > *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Sarbajit Roy
> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 2:57 AM
> > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] self-care
> >
> > The hypocrisy of the US govts is amazing.
> >
> > For decades they have been desperately promoting pill based self induced
> abortions as "safe" abortions in India and Latin America through their
> puppets like the Guttmacher Institiute and by using misrepresentations and
> outright lies.
> >
> > These pills are highly toxic / carcinogenic and Guttmacher was caught
> red handed by us for using fake accounts on Wikipedia to shape the "self
> induced abortion" article to depict it as safe and as an at-home remedy. We
> got Guttmacher delisted in India for about a year, but they made their way
> back through the USAID RMNCHA programs used to bribe foreign government
> servants to shape policy
> >
> > Sarbajit
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 8:52 PM glen  geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > In the aftermath of the activist Justices overturning RvW, this
> popped up in my feed:
> >
> > How to Give Yourself an Abortion
> > https://jewishcurrents.org/how-to-give-yourself-an-abortion <
> https://jewishcurrents.org/how-to-give-yourself-an-abortion>
> >
> > I remain torn on the issue of self-care. And lots of energy was
> added to my oscillators with the whole "horse dewormer" thing for COVID-19.
> (Yes, I'm poking fun both at the people who bought veterinary ivermectin
> and the people who used the disgusting sneer "horse dewormer".) To boot,
> this post came up this morning about a homeopathic packet sent home with
> the patient after surgery:
> https://centerforinquiry.salsalabs.org/2022cfimidyearemailversion11 <
> https://centerforinquiry.salsalabs.org/2022cfimidyearemailversion11>.
> (Placebo is a thing, despite Blumner's write-off.)
> >
> > Nick is fond of asking people whether they take multivitamins or
> not. And while it's true most experts claim that *healthy* people just pee
> them out. *Who* amongst us actually qualifies as "healthy"? What does
> "health" even mean? That's not an idle or rhetorical question. Am I
> "healthy", despite the excruciating chronic pain in my shoulders, neck, and
> lower back? Despite my sporadic debilitating migraines? Despite my now
> abated follicular lymphoma? Sure, I *seem* healthy because I can do
> pull-ups, shovel dirt, drink 5 pints without a hangover, and maintain a
> full-time job with a bit of time for hobbies. But what you see from the
> outside doesn't reflect what I feel on the inside, which is like a sick
> puppy where the slightest bad event would topple me into the "disabled"
> category. "Healthy" is at best a misinformation concept, at worst a
> malinformation concept:
> https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mdm-incident-response-guide_508.pdf
> > <
> https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mdm-incident-response-guide_508.pdf
> >
> >
> > Sneer all you want at the new-age descendant reading self-help
> books, cutting out magazine ads for their "vision board", or
> self-administering veterinary de-fetus pills, but there's something
> important, here. Fad diets, bottled w

Re: [FRIAM] A million year old driving assistant

[Carl Tollander]

Hari Seldon from Asimov's Foundation?

On Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 13:05 Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> But I just don’t understand the metaphor.   These are separate sensor
> suite and software that was added by some manufacturers long after motor
> vehicles had become popular.
>
> I think of emotions as more rogue, non-compartmentalized, side effects of
> memory.When quickly put my dog on a leash because I spot another dog at
> the park who won’t share toys and won’t play nice, that’s more like a
> driver assist.  It is **not** the piloerection and aggression I see in my
> dog when once she spots that dog.
>
>
>
> Incidentally, Tesla tracks the position and types of cars in the vicinity,
> even without the full self-driving product.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 24, 2022 11:47 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] A million year old driving assistant
>
>
>
> That makes sense to me, Jochen.
>
>
>
> Our X3 has the same feature and I found it helpful on a recent trip.  My
> M240 doesn't have it.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 12:32 PM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
> I am reading at the moment the German translation of "The Museum of
> Abandoned Secrets" from the Ukrainian writer Oksana Zabuzhko. It is a long
> novel about the history of Ukraine. She writes sentences as long as pages
> where one metaphor follows the next like pearls on a necklace of beads.
>
> One of these metaphors made me think if we can describe emotions as a
> "driving assistant" for the vehicles created by our selfish genes. A
> driving assistant shaped by million years of evolution which wakes up in
> the right moments and guides us in the right direction (whenever it is
> supper- or pairing time). If we select the right direction, then it rewards
> us by a boost of energy or fuel.
>
>
> Does it make sense to extend Dawkins' metaphor like this? Our BMW 330E has
> for example a system that warns the driver if he comes to close to the edge
> of the lane. Then the wheel starts to vibrate.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_driver-assistance_systems
>
>
>
> -J.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] To repeat is rational, but to wander is transcendent

[Carl Tollander]

Viscosity, I hear second hand (Adam Savage on YT), is more context
dependent.



On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 2:05 PM Eric Charles 
wrote:

> That is a bizarre distinction, that can only be maintained within some
> sort of odd, contextless discussion. If you tell me the number of atoms of
> a particular substance that you have smushed within a given space, we can,
> with reasonable accuracy, tell you the density, and hence the "state of
> matter". When we change the quantity of matter within that space, we can
> also calculate the expected change in temperature.
>
> For example, when there are 25 moles of propane in the tank under my
> grill, the state of matter is liquid.
>
> 
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 8:35 PM Frank Wimberly 
> wrote:
>
>> *From the web:*
>>
>> *Intensive properties do not depend on the quantity of matter*. Examples
>> include density, state of matter, and temperature. Extensive properties do
>> depend on sample size. Examples include volume, mass, and size.Dec 4,
>> 2019
>>
>> How is any of those variables emergent.
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 5:26 PM Nicholas Thompson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jon, I am sitting outside at a Ohori‘s. Chris tells me that there’s
>>> some sort of giant fork cook up that’s going to happen around six or maybe
>>> seven and then we all should come. Not the kind of thing I could talk Kenny
>>> into I don’t think but it might be fun to bring the kid to. They all smell
>>> is much more bearable when there’s an actual smell of food mixed up in the
>>> afternoon is very mild and pleasant. I wanted to take a few moments to try
>>> and get my mind around the intensive extensive distinction I now have a way
>>> to remember which is which which is the intensive properties are
>>> independent of the size of the system. So at least I have that little bit
>>> of grip.  Song the number of altruists in a group is an intensive sorry
>>> sorry extensive property of the group it changes with the size of the
>>> system according to Siri, the functional organization of the group the
>>> degree of functional organization if you will varies nonlinear early with
>>> the number of altruist  but it does vary with the number vouchers and so
>>> would be also an extensive property? No according to Winsett poop so far as
>>> I’m concerned is the only one who makes any sense on the subject an
>>> emergent property contrast with an aggregate property so the number of
>>> altruists in the group is an aggregate property because it is insensitive
>>> to the arrangement of the parts when you get a property which is sensitive
>>> to the arrangement of the parts then you get an emergent property. So I’m
>>> trying to think of those two distinctions are orthogonal related to One
>>> another. I will send this message along now that’s where I am at the
>>> moment. I will send a message along now so you get the info about the pork.
>>> Since I have no computer I will probably keep dictating these messages to
>>> you which you are entirely entitled to ignore but give me a medium in which
>>> to Think. Nick
>>>
>>> Sent from my Dumb Phone
>>>
>>> On Mar 24, 2022, at 4:16 PM, Jon Zingale  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-wandering-domain_theorem
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQkZVPU2txg&ab_channel=TheAbelPrize
>>>
>>> Been thinking about fractals and analytic continuations for recursive
>>> algorithms, lately. I would love to read some thoughts.
>>>
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Re: [FRIAM] Enamine

[Carl Tollander]

>>The maximalist MAD scenario is a made-up thing.

As are orange juice futures.  Useful as a trade instrument, but you don't
want to take delivery.

C


On Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 08:18 Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> One issue seems to be classified tech.
>
>
> https://dnyuz.com/2022/03/09/screw-removal-allows-us-to-send-classified-stinger-missiles-to-ukraine/
>
> We can always make more classified tech.
>
> I agree completely.  Stand for something or fall for nothing.  The
> maximalist MAD scenario is a made-up thing.
>
> On Mar 11, 2022, at 7:07 AM, glen  wrote:
>
> We call on Biden to reject reckless demands for a no-fly zone
> We deplore Russia’s aggression. However, it strains credulity to think
> that a US war with Russia would make the American people safer or more
> prosperous
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/11/we-call-on-biden-to-reject-reckless-demands-for-a-no-fly-zone
>
> Directly on the heels of counter-arguing with EricC about the inadequacy
> of hypocrisy as an argument, this open letter "peacenick" rhetoric really
> gets on my nerves. The sanctions are anemic, and damn near cowardly. The
> tagline to the open letter "safer or more prosperous" is spot on. Because
> *that's* why we do things, right? So we can be safe and prosperous? Safety
> and prosperity are the foundations of our ethics? Bullshit.
>
> Buffers and proxy wars are the epitome of manipulative exploitation. I'm
> no war-monger. But this democratic backsliding and trend toward dictators
> with leaders like Modi, Orbán, Lukashenko, et al *are* the actual front
> line. And that front line isn't geographical. It's ethical.
>
> War, even nuclear, might serve as a tacit demonstration to our right-wing
> friends that freedom, the word they love so much, doesn't lie in safety and
> prosperity. It lies in the recognition of, and united stance against,
> exploitative bullies.
>
> We're lucky I'm not in charge, I guess. 8^D
>
>
> On 3/11/22 02:49, David Eric Smith wrote:
>
>  The notion of “using” buffer states — which I hate, by the way, as an
> attitude of consigning people and regions to disposability categories — as
> a way to allow graded responses and stalemates from which large
> bully-powers could withdraw, would have been the template for most alliance
> treaties.
>
>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: International firm to invest $254M in ABQ hydrogen factory -- ABQ Journal

[Carl Tollander]

Not to be too much of a hydrogen fanboi here, but it looks like we would
for many generation cases still be ahead compared to where we are with
fossil.
http://gcep.stanford.edu/pdfs/i6W09tDtK-48PTmzHazOuw/3.2.3.Jacobson_Golden_07.pdf

My impression is that the transport and leakage issue is one that the UH
folks are trying to address.  Now if they could achieve that in a vacuum



On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 9:52 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> Back to growing fungus, I guess.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Merle Lefkoff
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 10, 2022 8:42 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: International firm to invest $254M in ABQ
> hydrogen factory -- ABQ Journal
>
>
>
> Oh, please, Frank!  I guess I need to show you a bit more about why this
> is a bad idea.  (Or maybe you're pulling my leg.). See below from my "bad
> climate mitigation notes" file and be better informed.
>
>
>
> First, the color code.  "Green" hydrogen, produced by electrolysis is
> expensive, so it's produced by steam reforming--cheaper, but it uses
> natural gas as a feedstock and produces "grey" hydrogen which contributes
> nothing to climate change mitigation.  But "grey" can become "blue"
> hydrogen when the CO2 is captured by carbon storage techniques that are
> very doubtful on many levels.
>
>
>
> Also darn, atmospheric hydrogen sequesters hydroxyl radicals responsible
> for the removal of methane.  Uh-oh!  There is even more interference when
> hydrogen combines with oxygen in the stratosphere to form water vapor,
> which also contributes to climate change. Finally, the entire process of
> hydrogen production, transport, distribution, storage and use is affected
> by common leaks that release gas into the atmosphere.  This is one of the
> biggest problems among many, and it also seems to be under-reported and not
> well understood by people looking for easy answers.
>
>
>
> Like you, dear Frank.
>
>
>
>
>   
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 8:57 PM Frank Wimberly 
> wrote:
>
> I am a former pilot.  I think this is an excellent idea.  Don't confuse
> hydrogen with hydrogen bombs.  Burning hydrogen produces water, not CO2.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:53 PM Merle Lefkoff 
> wrote:
>
> I need assurance from somebody--anybody--that this is an incredibly bad
> idea from a governor who drank some fatally spiked Kool-Aid.
>
>
> International firm to invest $254M in ABQ hydrogen factory
>
>
>
> “This project puts New Mexico and Universal Hydrogen at the center of the
> global effort to decarbonize transportation and aviation in particular,”
> Lujan Grisham said in a statement. “Hydrogen, solar, wind and alternative
> energy are job-rich industries and New Mexico’s partnerships with these
> companies are part of a forward-thinking model to create a robust and
> diversified economy, while being a part of the solution when it comes to a
> changing climate.”
>
>
> BY KEVIN ROBINSON-AVILA / JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
> 
>
> PUBLISHED: THURSDAY, MARCH 10TH, 2022 AT 2:47PM
> UPDATED: THURSDAY, MARCH 10TH, 2022 AT 2:52PM
>
>
> 
>
> Universal Hydrogen — an international company with modular hydrogen
> storage technology for planes, ground transportation and heavy
> manufacturing — will invest $254 million in a new manufacturing and
> distribution center at the Albuquerque International Sunport, potentially
> employing up to 500 people, Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham announced Thursday
> afternoon.The state will contribute $10 million in Local Economic
> Development Act funding for the project, which could have a $700 million
> economic impact here over the next 10 years, according to the Governor’s
> Office, which held a news conference Thursday at Hotel Albuquerque in Old
> Town to announce the project.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: International firm to invest $254M in ABQ hydrogen factory -- ABQ Journal

[Carl Tollander]

I see no problem with hydrogen aircraft and think they are likely a Good
Thing.  I think the hydrogen-electric engines are probably closer than the
hydrogen burning engines. UH seems to be mostly about packaging and
delivering the stuff at scale and trying to drum up markets for that.
 However they seem agnostic as to where the hydrogen comes from.  There's
the green stuff and the blue stuff.   The blue stuff comes from fossil
fuels and seems to be a sop to the local pushers, uh, oil and gas industry.

There are some other ways of generating hydrogen coming down the pike
(e.g., UCSC's gallium aluminum process) which, if they pan out, might leave
some of the UH oil and gas backers holding the bag.



On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 8:57 PM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> I am a former pilot.  I think this is an excellent idea.  Don't confuse
> hydrogen with hydrogen bombs.  Burning hydrogen produces water, not CO2.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:53 PM Merle Lefkoff 
> wrote:
>
>> I need assurance from somebody--anybody--that this is an incredibly bad
>> idea from a governor who drank some fatally spiked Kool-Aid.
>>
>> *International firm to invest $254M in ABQ hydrogen factory*
>>
>>
>> “This project puts New Mexico and Universal Hydrogen at the center of the
>> global effort to decarbonize transportation and aviation in particular,”
>> Lujan Grisham said in a statement. “Hydrogen, solar, wind and alternative
>> energy are job-rich industries and New Mexico’s partnerships with these
>> companies are part of a forward-thinking model to create a robust and
>> diversified economy, while being a part of the solution when it comes to a
>> changing climate.”
>>
>>
>> *BY KEVIN ROBINSON-AVILA / JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
>> *
>>
>> PUBLISHED: THURSDAY, MARCH 10TH, 2022 AT 2:47PM
>> UPDATED: THURSDAY, MARCH 10TH, 2022 AT 2:52PM
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Universal Hydrogen — an international company with modular hydrogen
>> storage technology for planes, ground transportation and heavy
>> manufacturing — will invest $254 million in a new manufacturing and
>> distribution center at the Albuquerque International Sunport, potentially
>> employing up to 500 people, Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham announced Thursday
>> afternoon.The state will contribute $10 million in Local Economic
>> Development Act funding for the project, which could have a $700 million
>> economic impact here over the next 10 years, according to the Governor’s
>> Office, which held a news conference Thursday at Hotel Albuquerque in Old
>> Town to announce the project.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [FRIAM] Enamine

[Carl Tollander]

Hmm, 1860's.   Treaty of Aigun, and others at the time, regarded by China
as one of many unequal treaties, since they were imposed on it when it was
weakened by internal issues.   Historically, China would only consider
negotiating treaties among equals, maybe now, since Russia and China are
best buds, China might bring up that it's time to reconsider those
treaties.  Maybe if Russia were just a bit less equal due to recent
military overextension.  Say, would be nice to have all of the Amur basin
reunified.   Not to mention all the beachfront property!

BTW, there's a lot of Ukrainians living on the Kurils, the southernmost of
which are claimed by Japan.  Wonder how they are looking at current events.

Anyhow, let's not get too Eurocentric.   Russia has a lot of border.

C



On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 10:48 AM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> Well, yeah.   I’d say start flying sorties of F-16s and F-35s now, forget
> the cruddy old MiGs.   The distinctions between arms hardware supplier and
> arms services one of those rulebook distinctions for diplomats.  The rules
> are being ignored, obviously.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 9, 2022 9:32 AM
> *To:* friam@redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Enamine
>
>
>
> I must agree that sanctions are a feckless response to Putin's aggression,
> past, present, and future. Yes, ordinary people will suffer; both in Russia
> and in the West, but neither policy nor outcomes will be effected and
> certainly not anything resembling regime change. North Korea and Iran are
> exemplars for the (in)effectiveness of sanctions.
>
>
>
> davew
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 9, 2022, at 9:17 AM, Sarbajit Roy wrote:
>
> Not really,
>
> Russia is low down on the list of world economies and the Russian people
> are quite used to deprivation if they see a positive outcome soon.
>
> Putin paints it as an "EXISTENTIAL" threat for Mother Russia which had to
> be done, no matter what.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 10:41 PM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
> That sounds plausible.   What I don’t see is a release of sanctions before
> a lot of damage is done to the Russian economy.   North America doesn’t
> really need the oil, although I could see Germany and others folding when
> winter comes again.   As long as the sanctions hold up, Putin is in for a
> world of hurt.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Sarbajit Roy
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 9, 2022 9:02 AM
>
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Enamine
>
>
>
> What is going to happen in Ukraine is that Russia is going to teach
> Ukraine a lesson for flirting with the EU, NATO and western liberalism and
> signing that NATO document in November 2021.
>
>
>
> Putin is going to annex the Eastern and Southern parts of Ukraine by
> setting them up as autonomous regions/states within Ukraines' boundaries as
> Russian protectorates. He is then going to make Kyiv sue for peace under
> his terms with Russia taking over some aspects of Ukraine's foreign affairs
> and defence/security (think back to the former East Germany). Putin has no
> intention of taking over Ukraine or ruling it.
>
>
>
> Russian's are very direct communicators (like Klingons), Putin, is doing
> exactly what he said he would do before the invasion started. This is a
> special military operation, not an invasion. The sooner Ukraine folds up
> the better for everyone, and especially the Ukranians, since it's the US
> and UK who are stoking the fires for their own selfish (war mongering
> defence industry) interests.  And interestingly the Muslim world is lining
> up behind the Russia-China axis as nobody really trusts the US and UK
> anymore over there.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 9:57 PM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
> EricS writes:
>
>
>
> < It seems to me that Mearsheimer’s argument does do an induction for what
> to do next, and it is a 19th-century induction, in which a small number of
> actors simply dictate what the world will do, and there should be some kind
> of US retreat [..] >
>
>
>
> There’s another option, possibly within reach, to create the conditions to
> have the current Russian government implode and give Russia the opportunity
> to join NATO.  It’s not like it hasn’t happened before.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *David Eric Smith
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 9, 2022 3:58 AM
>
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Enamine
>
>
>
> It’s a good list of wrongdoings, Roger, and no argument can be sound that
> doesn’t keep it present and active.  Facts are facts.
>
>
>
> I wasn’t saying I can’t follow Mearsheimer’s frame or its reasoning.  I
> was saying that the adequacy of working within the frame seems questionable
> and bothers me. To put in a metaphor where I am sure it would be better if
> I stuck to the particulars, it seems like a Baconian error to me: to
> suppose that (a subs

Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics

[Carl Tollander]

Uh-oh.  Paging Greg Bear.
https://phys.org/news/2022-01-sars-cov-spike-protein-human-endogenous.html


On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 8:17 AM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> Frank writes:
>
> < Two problems, "God" has tricks for making babies.  As for 1 child per
> couple didn't they "terminate" some babies (not fetuses, feti?),
> particularly females?  >
>
> I think Neuralink and related technologies may have applications to
> climate change.   Imagine a bluetooth-connected neural implant device you
> could sell for dieting, to promote exercise, control drug and alcohol
> usage, or promote concentration.  One could imagine modulating those
> "tricks" too.
>
> Marcus
> --
> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Frank Wimberly <
> wimber...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 7:11 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>
> Excellent, Marcus.
>
> Eric, if it's less than 90% it still would have be significant.  Two
> problems, "God" has tricks for making babies.  As for 1 child per couple
> didn't they "terminate" some babies (not fetuses, feti?), particularly
> females?  My impression is that their population has grown substantially
> notwithstanding those policies.
>
> Frank
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 6:38 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:
>
> Before I launch into a diatribe about why the hell we can't agree to
> basic, never mind interesting things:   I'd just like to report that the
> James Webb telescope is in L2 orbit.  Score one for the negotiating,
> patient, subtlety-appreciating scientists and their counterparts in
> government.
>
> Marcus
> --
> *From:* Friam  on behalf of David Eric Smith <
> desm...@santafe.edu>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 6:01 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>
> You know, as I read your characterization, Marcus, it took me back to
> Hannah Arendt’s description of feudal Europe and the role of the
> Rothschilds and other big Jewish quasi-stateless fixer families in relation
> to the feudal lords.  Fussy and indirect seems somehow very close to the
> right picture of the stateless ones navigating always through the cracks
> and seams, compared to the blunt moves of the ones who had states.
>
> I have some discomfort that this doesn’t quite map.  Yet it seems not
> fully dissimilar.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:19 PM, Marcus Daniels  wrote:
>
> SFI sponsorship seems like very much a fideistic declaration.   It would
> be interesting to see how that influence network feeds into a D.C.
> influencer network and real money.   There are some linkages, like
> Brookings, but leverage-wise it all seems much softer than with LANL and
> the DOE.   And it all seems so fussy and indirect compared to slapping down
> a few billion dollars to build a Starship.  That's the appeal of Musk:  I'm
> f'ing doing this.
> --
> *From:* Friam  on behalf of glen <
> geprope...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 5:08 PM
> *To:* friam@redfish.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>
> Well, that ain't true, either. Like Epstein, when you "invest" in the SFI
> or people like Steven Pinker or Bill Clinton, you're simply transferring
> from one store to another ... buying influence. If, e.g., the CIA contracts
> with the SFI to adapt a CAS modeling tool into a broad spectrum simulation
> tool, they are not only buying a (questionable) piece of software; they're
> buying *leverage* over people's salaries, loyalty, etc. So those VCs *will*
> see that money again, perhaps much less of it, depending on the efficiency
> of the transaction, or in fringe storage types (able to get past the
> receptionist after eating over-priced peri-Mexican food in order to have
> tea with smart people).
>
> On 1/24/22 15:31, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Some of them sponsor SFI for goodness' sake!   They'll never see THAT
> money again!
> --
> glen
> Theorem 3. There exists a double master function.
>
>
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> 
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> 

Re: [FRIAM] Complexity, Ottawa and Nanotechnology (was Re: Struck me as funny)

[Carl Tollander]

Merle, go to phys.org and click on the Nanotechnology tab.
https://phys.org/nanotech-news/  .   Free, as in birds.  Short, usually
accessible, articles on what's current research, sort of on the level of
Science News.  The article usually wind up with a please-fund-me paragraph
on potential applications. My own view is that nano engineering is mostly
getting absorbed into materials science (sensors, filters, optics, etc).


On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:14 PM Stephen Guerin 
wrote:

> Merle,
>
> I'm no expert but here are some writings
>
> I trust Philip Ball as a science writer that distills well and doesn't add
> mushy fluff:
> https://academic.oup.com/nsr/article/8/6/nwaa266/6009035
>
> There's some debate on using the framework of Complexity as an appropriate
> lens for nanotechnology (I only where one pair of sunglasses)
> referencing Laughlins "A Different Universe: Reinventing Physics from the
> Bottom Down"
> https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/046503828X
>
> reviews:
> https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1063/1.2138425
> http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=104
>
> As an aside, we're working with wildfire folks in:
>
> Aviation, Forest Fire and Emergency Services (AFFES)
> Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry
> Government of Ontario
>
> Your Dean at U of Ottawa may be interested in how we're applying
> complexity in his province.
> ___
> stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
> CEO, Simtable  http://www.simtable.com
> 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
> office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
> twitter: @simtable
> z oom.simtable.com
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 11:29 AM Merle Lefkoff 
> wrote:
>
>> Merle needs a bit of help.  I'm teaching a short online course this week
>> for the U. of Ottawa, and one of the guys in my course is the Dean of the
>> School of Engineering. (Why, I can't imagine.)  Anyway, his research field
>> is nanotechnology.  Is it here?  Where has it been applied?  Is it an
>> incredibly generative technology that will change our near-term future?
>> HELP, and thanks.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 10:36 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> New York City Mayor Eric Adams (D) on Sunday morning said the Big Apple
>>> is planning to dispatch mental health professionals
>>> 
>>> to its subway system as a way to prevent crime. He said the city is going
>>> to “flood our system with mental health professionals and law enforcement
>>> working as a team to move out the disorder that's clearly in the subway
>>> system in our city.”
>>>
>>> A couch by every turnstyle?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new collective?  A murder of crows; a flood of psychiatrists?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rumor has it that Biden is considering sending mental health
>>> professionals to the Ukrainian border.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Needless to say, I have volunteered.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> n
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick Thompson
>>>
>>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> archives:
>>>  5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
>> Center for Emergent Diplomacy
>> emergentdiplomacy.org
>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>>
>> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
>>
>>
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Re: [FRIAM] best microphone?

[Carl Tollander]

Generally, microphones don't do background noise processing (there are
probably some all-in-one mics that try but then you end up committed to the
associated app).   See below for thoughts on Zoom and noise.   Anyhow, be
forewarned, audio is a rabbit hole, with near it-seems-like-infinite
twiddleware.  Rewarding, if you want to go there, but I'm assuming you have
other fish to fry.

I teach Japanese drumming (Taiko) online, so I need to move (e.g. jump)
around a lot and stay in frame while I'm talking.  For others, this might
translate into leaning back in your chair away from the mic, or pacing
while composing a thought.

So, when I started all this, I got a wireless mic (Samson XPDm Headset
Digital Wireless System) plugged into a USB interface (the Scarlett brand
is pretty good for low-end work, I would avoid the PreSonus).  Check out
sweetwater.com  or bhphotovideo.com - their sales service is great, but
don't let them sell you software.

As I say, I like to move around and stay in frame while I'm talking.   So,
I also got an Obsbot Tiny camera.  *Much* better than the stock 2020
Macbook Pro laptop camera and it follows you around to keep you in frame.
obsbot.com  (no you do not need the software)  And yes, better than the
Logitech.  Plug and play.  It has its own mic built-in, but haven't messed
with it much yet.

There are *many* steps up.  They get expensive, mostly in terms of your
attention.   I can advise, but.at the end of all this you might be
happy with a Rode podcaster mic.  If you do get hooked for music, Shure
(SM-57) and AudioTech (AT-220)  are good brands.  And then there are
various mixer boards and audio processing software.. Take care, or
audio will eat your head.

Zoom background noise processing is not awful, but best use depends quite a
bit on your rig, so you have to experiment.  Alas, there's no monitoring
function, so to experiment you have to record your session and play it back
or have a very patient friend on the other side of the conversation.  I've
also been messing with whereby.com as a Zoom alternative and sometimes the
latency is better.

At the end of all this you if you don't move around much you might be happy
with a Rode podcaster mic.

And then video mixing it a whole 'nother thing, but if you want multiple
cameras - look up "ATEM Mini".

Good luck, you'll need it.
Carl


On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 10:59 AM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> Anyone have suggestions for microphones for videoconferencing in an
> environment with background noise?   The main background noise is nearby
> fan noise, and sometimes also louder air conditioning.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Kill it!

[Carl Tollander]

So, several avenues present.

Import (bee visa) Japanese bees to teach American bees.

Import (bee immigration) Japanese bees to supplant American bees.

Send American bees to Japan to study Japanese bee methods in context.

All this assumes some notion of bee culture transfer as opposed to
genetics...something recently about corvids teaching...if so, well

Birds do it.

C


On Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 22:15 David Eric Smith  wrote:

> > Note: Some beehives have a defense, they clump around the scout in a
> buzzing ball, and though many in the ball lose their heads, collectively
> they raise the temperature of the hornet scout and "cook" it.   It doesn't
> release enough pheromone such that the other hornets follow up.
>
> All, do find internet videos on this.  There are several.  I think I sent
> them around some months ago, and couldn’t bring myself to spam again with
> them.
>
> I sent them to friends with titles like “lesson in democracy”.
>
> Japanese bees can do this.  American (naturalized European) bees cannot.
> This all seems very depressing, in addition to its real damage.
>
> Eric
>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Computer Monitors now?

[Carl Tollander]

For a projector, then you need to worry about a screen ( the wall isn't
flat) and there's a whole new world of artifacts and short throws and
stuff.  Tradeoffs galore.

But hey, the endless lure of the upmarket.

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 21:40 Gillian Densmore  wrote:

> The Odessy 9 is probably a top 15 monitor.  A LTT reviewer might call it a
> absolute unit of a monitor. lol 😂  alas at about 2.5k (onnsale) it'll be a
> Sea food diet kid of thing: I can See the monitor.*
>
> Ernest Q: at 49 inches is projector a better value (and idea )for
> repairability and  how long it'd last
>
> *LTT also did a custom build for Dead Mau5 who wanted something  5 of
> them but no graphics card available can drive all of that, so settled
> for 3. I have no idea how you'd physically arrange that and have it make
> sense.
>
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 8:20 PM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>> I got a Dell S3220DGF that was on sale a while back and I think was a
>> good value.
>>
>> A better value than my Samsung Odyssey 9 which is still the best!
>>
>> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Carl Tollander
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 24, 2021 6:45 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam@redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Computer Monitors now?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Buy,  Wall in back of the computer sales desk, to your right as you
>> come in the front door.   See them in action.  There's often a sale.
>>
>> Viewsonic is still good.  There are some small TVs that can be monitors.
>>   Make sure your computer can drive the thing.   Just because the
>> connectors fit doesn't mean the cable is compatible.  There's HDMI and then
>> there's HDMI.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 7:27 PM Gillian Densmore 
>> wrote:
>>
>> lol this is Murphy's law or something? I have a ridiculously old Dell
>> 15-20 inch computer monitor. It's stupidly old and just about
>> falling apart. I need to replace it because it's got a crack. The crack has
>> been there since I got it years ago., it started as a small dink in the
>> monitor. I'd guess from shipping. this Monday it turned it's growing. And
>> turning into the grand canyon. It's created a zone of dead pixels
>> or however LCDs work.
>>
>> Either way, now in the market for a Frugal AF monitor. Reviews for budget
>> monitors say Viewsonic. (I didn't know they were still in business).It
>> doesn't need to be a "gamer monitor" with 200pica-second refresh rates or
>> anything. I only ask that it just fucking work. The GPU I have does HDMI.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sigh. Fuck.
>>
>> Where do I look for cheep AF, but won't fall apart instantly monitors?
>> Googling lead me to Wally World. I am beyond lost for what to look for, and
>> genuinely don't know what in 2021 is considered Budget or sanely priced.
>>
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Re: [FRIAM] Kill it!

[Carl Tollander]

As far as the Japanese Hornets go, they hang in packs of 17 or so, send out
scouts to find honeybee hives, attack the hives and behead all the bees.
All.   If you are unlucky enough to encounter and kill one, it releases a
hormone that draws all it's compatriots to you.  They will not be pleased,
and you can't outrun them.

I got stung by one once.  Sort of like a nail through the hand, (I
imagine).   Another time there were several gnawing on the aluminum window
in the bathroom where I was lodging (perhaps it was simply some sort of
recreation for them).   It was a scary sound.  They were making progress.
I departed.

Do not kill *one*.

Note: Some beehives have a defense, they clump around the scout in a
buzzing ball, and though many in the ball lose their heads, collectively
they raise the temperature of the hornet scout and "cook" it.   It doesn't
release enough pheromone such that the other hornets follow up.





On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 5:40 PM Steve Smith  wrote:

>
> On 8/24/21 9:05 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote:
> > I'm definitely rooting for the Murder Hornets! Little wimpy bugs need
> someone to teach them what it means to be a real bug. These hipster bugs in
> the PacNW are a bit sad ... kinda like the self-conscious nerds so popular
> in movies and TV lately ... Woody Allen destroyed masculinity. Those bugs
> in TX and NM, now; those are real bugs ... respectable bugs ... bugs you
> wanna sit down and quaff a Bud Light with. Apparently, China's doing
> something right to grow such macho bugs.
>
> My first reaction to the subject line is one of my favorite parody
> attributions to redneck culture:  "it's Diffr'nt, kill it!" but then I
> read the content and realized it was more apropos than I expected.
>
> I believe that something like "xenophobia" is an adaptive response in
> many contexts...  we have some pretty deep instincts it seems that let
> us know to be "askeered" of "spiders and snakes" even if we'd never seen
> another ape respond that way.  My dog has always been very (properly)
> fearful of snakes...  otherwise her natural curious aggression would
> have had her dead-by-snakebite long ago...   she went crazy everytime
> she saw a rattlesnake but always barked crazily from a good 6-10 feet
> away.   She never alerted to a non-rattler that I knew of.And in the
> arms race of survival, it is natural that some "skeery" things will
> camoflauge as benign or friendly or cute.
>
> I am always a little nervous when large movements (especially gubbm'nt
> supported ) try to tap those instincts.  It seems like a bad precedent
> to encourage formalized xenophobia even against helpless insects.   The
> Charlottesville (and too many other) white-nationalists chanting "jews
> will not replace us" and all of Trump's fear-mongering are obvious (and
> ugly), but aspects of the B(lack) L(ives) M(atter) movement that perhaps
> overstated police culpability (in general not in specific cases), and
> Hillary's unfortunate election-forfieting statement calling Trump
> supporters "deplorables" (plenty of them were, but the brush was too
> broad and there was probably at least some backlash turnout over that
> one).  Her "superpredator" comments, etc. in the 90's are another
> example.
>
> As for me, I have a nicely expanding set of stands of what is know
> locally as "Guaco" (critical to the black on black pottery process) in
> the pueblo nearby but more commonly known as "beeweed" among anglos...
> it turns out to be a particularly attractive nectar source for the
> Tarantula Hawk (or Tarantula Wasp), a big ole blue-black  beast that
> looks like it could stun you with a sting and drag you to it's
> underground lair where it would insert it's fertilized eggs into your
> abdomen to hatch and thrive until the larva are ready to emerge and
> pupate ultimately into more giant scary wasps.   The thing is, this is
> exactly what they do, but only with Tarantulae (and perhaps other large
> spiders?) but can hardly be induced to sting anything else (I think
> there is a YouTube Steve-Irwin wannabe who succeeded in getting one to
> sting him on camera, but while painful it was not acutely life or limb
> threatening).  There are as many as a dozen or more of these wasps (and
> occasionally a few other pollinating insects) hanging around them.   I
> approach them relatively casually but even when I drive up within a few
> feet on my way into the driveway or run my weedwhip into the ragweed
> surrounding the stand, they take no interest in  me.   I suppose if I
> were to violently attack them, they *might* respond in some offensive
> way, but most indications are, they reserve their sting for immobilizing
> their Tarantula baby-incubators.   My immediate neighbors have lots of
> loud yard-grooming equipment and a whole shed full of pesticides and
> herbicides they run around  spraying on everything in their yard, and
> while "beeweed" would never survive a week in their yard, I think they
> would be out machine-gunning thes

Re: [FRIAM] Computer Monitors now?

[Carl Tollander]

Best Buy,  Wall in back of the computer sales desk, to your right as you
come in the front door.   See them in action.  There's often a sale.
Viewsonic is still good.  There are some small TVs that can be monitors.
Make sure your computer can drive the thing.   Just because the connectors
fit doesn't mean the cable is compatible.  There's HDMI and then there's
HDMI.



On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 7:27 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> lol this is Murphy's law or something? I have a ridiculously old Dell
> 15-20 inch computer monitor. It's stupidly old and just about
> falling apart. I need to replace it because it's got a crack. The crack has
> been there since I got it years ago., it started as a small dink in the
> monitor. I'd guess from shipping. this Monday it turned it's growing. And
> turning into the grand canyon. It's created a zone of dead pixels
> or however LCDs work.
> Either way, now in the market for a Frugal AF monitor. Reviews for budget
> monitors say Viewsonic. (I didn't know they were still in business).It
> doesn't need to be a "gamer monitor" with 200pica-second refresh rates or
> anything. I only ask that it just fucking work. The GPU I have does HDMI.
>
> Sigh. Fuck.
> Where do I look for cheep AF, but won't fall apart instantly monitors?
> Googling lead me to Wally World. I am beyond lost for what to look for, and
> genuinely don't know what in 2021 is considered Budget or sanely priced.
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Re: [FRIAM] why, me, o lord?!

[Carl Tollander]

If really worried about the core heat and you just gotta check your mail
before the repair shop opens, stick the sleeping laptop in the fridge for
half an hour, take it out and check mail for 5 minutes, repeat.  I used
this to good effect with a couple laptops in years past.  But you really
gotta keep usage down to a trickle.  As soon as you can hear the fan
it's time to stop.  Don't repeatedly put a hot laptop next to the egg
salad.   Might want to use a plastic bag if there is a lot of condensation.

BTW, for folks with macs, iStat Menus is a very nice system/temperature
monitoring app.



On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 4:17 PM Alexander Rasmus 
wrote:

> Nick,
>
> As a short term fix, you can try pointing an external fan at your laptop.
> This'll probably work best if you prop up the back of the laptop and have
> the fan incident from the side so you get good airflow across the bottom of
> the laptop, but your mileage will vary depending on where the fan vents are
> and where the CPU is located.
>
> Best,
> Rasmus
>
> On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 2:33 PM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
>> If it is just dust then Carl's tip could be useful. It helped for one of
>> my older laptops before it was replaced. I hope you have a recent backup!
>> If you can get it running again (after the dust has been removed and it has
>> cooled down) then a backup of the most important data should have highest
>> priority if there is no recent one.
>>
>> -J.
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: Carl Tollander 
>> Date: 7/18/21 07:00 (GMT+01:00)
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>>
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] why, me, o lord?!
>>
>> Fan bearings.   Keep it cool.  Possibly some debris in the fan that a
>> service person could blow out with compressed air.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 22:50  wrote:
>>
>>> Anybody,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My Lenovo laptop has started making the oddest array of noises.  It
>>> started with clunks and chunks and churrs but has now moved on to peeps and
>>> whistles.  It’s latest production is a dying swan noise … a squeal, that
>>> descends in halftones and intensity followed by a scary silence… for a
>>> bit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lenovo customer service seems to be “upgrading its systems” and has not
>>> responded for three days.  Much as the noises sound like a dying mechanical
>>> hard drive,  this machine has a solid state hard drive.  Any thoughts?  The
>>> machine seems to be working fine otherwise, but I am afraid it is going to
>>> shake itself to death.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry to bother you with this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> N
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick Thompson
>>>
>>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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Re: [FRIAM] why, me, o lord?!

[Carl Tollander]

Fan bearings.   Keep it cool.  Possibly some debris in the fan that a
service person could blow out with compressed air.



On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 22:50  wrote:

> Anybody,
>
>
>
> My Lenovo laptop has started making the oddest array of noises.  It
> started with clunks and chunks and churrs but has now moved on to peeps and
> whistles.  It’s latest production is a dying swan noise … a squeal, that
> descends in halftones and intensity followed by a scary silence… for a
> bit.
>
>
>
> Lenovo customer service seems to be “upgrading its systems” and has not
> responded for three days.  Much as the noises sound like a dying mechanical
> hard drive,  this machine has a solid state hard drive.  Any thoughts?  The
> machine seems to be working fine otherwise, but I am afraid it is going to
> shake itself to death.
>
>
>
> Sorry to bother you with this.
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] hacker koan

[Carl Tollander]

Minsky was simply illustrating you cannot avoid programming without
preconceptions.

Another:

A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning the power off
and on.

Knight (Tom Knight), seeing what the student was doing, spoke sternly: "
You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of
what is going wrong."

Knight turned the machine off and on.

The machine worked.

As a general strategy for fixing things over the phone, this strategy works
much of the time.   However, in this case, the point would be that the
machine was always "working".   The joke here is that in those days in most
of the Lisp Machines (at least our Symbolics ones) all the boards had at
least a few jumper cables, and that no two  boards had quite the same
jumpers, yet they "worked".  Another is that we often turned off the GC and
ran them til they ran out of memory, then power cycled.

So preconceptions are conserved; sometimes in one machine, sometimes in
another.

C
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Re: [FRIAM] numbers

[Carl Tollander]

I invite those who think 87507 to be "poor" to take a Sunday drive through
Tierra Contenta or south of the airport/west of 599.   Say, out by the polo
field.



On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 12:27 PM  wrote:

> Thanks, Glen, I think the relevant data line was POP100, although I don't
> know why "100".  In a  sane world, that would be the population in
> hundreds, but that would give our zip code a population of 4.5 million,
> which seems a bit  heavy.  In any case, for those of  you following case
> increments by zip code, here are some denominators as of 2010, as well as
> the most recent per day 7 day increments. .  The second two columns are
> deviation are expectation and deviation.  No surprises there, except that
> there seems to be a bit of a run of cases out by the golf course.  507 has
> a third more cases than it should have, which demonstrates once again that
> it's better for your health to be rich than poor.  *Caveat emptor:* these
> calculations were done literally on the back of an envelope by an 82 year
> old guy with poor eyesight and C's in math.
>
>
>
> 501 - 15,147  - 13% - 02.3c - 4  -
>
> 505 - 31,013  - 25% - 06.0   - 8  -
>
> 506 - 12, 580 - 09% - 05.5   - 3 +
>
> 507 - 45, 890 - 38% - 18.0   - 12 ++
>
> 508 - 18, 183 - 15% - 01.5  -  5 -
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 12:08 PM
> To: FriAM 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] numbers
>
>
>
> And if you don't want to download a huge file, you can use the census web
> app:
>
>
>
> E.g. for my zip code (98502):
>
>
>
>
> https://tigerweb.geo.census.gov/arcgis/rest/services/TIGERweb/PUMA_TAD_TAZ_UGA_ZCTA/MapServer/7/query?where=ZCTA5%3D%2798502%27&text=&objectIds=&time=&geometry=&geometryType=esriGeometryEnvelope&inSR=&spatialRel=esriSpatialRelIntersects&relationParam=&outFields=*&returnGeometry=false&returnTrueCurves=false&maxAllowableOffset=&geometryPrecision=&outSR=&returnIdsOnly=false&returnCountOnly=false&orderByFields=&groupByFieldsForStatistics=&outStatistics=&returnZ=false&returnM=false&gdbVersion=&returnDistinctValues=false&resultOffset=&resultRecordCount=&queryByDistance=&returnExtentsOnly=false&datumTransformation=¶meterValues=&rangeValues=&f=html
>
>
>
> I'd say this is an excellent example of government transparency.
>
>
>
> On 11/2/20 9:08 AM, Barry MacKichan wrote:
>
> > One of the first search hits is
>
> > https://www.kaggle.com/census/us-population-by-zip-code
>
> > 
>
> > —Barry
>
> >
>
> > On 2 Nov 2020, at 11:59, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Is it possible to get population by zipcode?  It seems like it’s
>
> > proprietary info.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > How’s that for government transparency!
>
>
>
> --
>
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
>
>
> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
>
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>
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>
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>
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Re: [FRIAM] Logo/Ideo/Phono graphic language

[Carl Tollander]

Great question!Busy week, tho.   We might look at related kanji (my
favorite is the kanji characters for gate and ma), the system of radicals,
and various systems for transliteration (romaji, Hepburn, etc) and
different systems for pronouncing the same kanji, and how all those
interlace.

It is quite the rabbit hole.   Consider:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%96%80#Japanese
and
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%96%93

The last question is even better and I will have some thoughts there later,
but as I say, busy week.

C


On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM Steve Smith  wrote:

> We obviously have at least two Japanophiles here...
>
> My (very limited) familiarity with Chinese Logographic written language
> and the inherited/derived Japanese Kanji  I was struck by how intrinsic the
> metaphorical nature of Ideograms are.   Pictograms are more "visually
> onomatapoeic" which is (more than) a nod to the perceptual grounding of
> language.  It seems that Logographic writing mixes Pictographic,
> Ideographic and even Rebus (phonetic loan words) as-needed, with what seems
> like a natural drift toward phonographic language/syllabaries (e.g.
> Katakana).   Of course, having metaphor-derangement-syndrome, I find
> metaphor everywhere and even more to the point of my own idiosyncratic
> perspective, the stacking or composition of metaphors evidenced in
> ideogrammatic compounds and the broad use of radicals to
> combine/modify/nuance ideograms.
>
> I'd be curious if either of you (anyone really) has more insight into the
> way these written languages maintain the vestiges of their own
> evolution/development and hints for how people who use these languages
> might structure their thought similarly or differently to those who use
> entirely phonographic writing (all of the modern West?)
>
> - Steve
> On 10/13/20 8:42 AM, Prof David West wrote:
>
> Carl,
>
> Mentioning art and translation made me think of this book
>
> *The Chinese Written Character as a Medium for Poetry
> <https://books.google.com/books?id=P14rAH8xU9EC&printsec=frontcover>*,
> composed by the Ernest Fenollosa, edited by Ezra Pound
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Pound> after the author's death, 1918.
>
> I frequently refer to it when confronting issues of cognition and language
> and culture; and as insight into why Whorf was right and why he was wrong.
>
> You might enjoy it.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Carl Tollander wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks, not there yet.Somewhere between Zen and Shinto, anyhows.
>
> The test is a mirror, in the sense that it proposed a lot of photons in
> short order that I would not normally consider, which brought some
> opportunity for self-reflection.   A bunch of "gee, that's odd" moments.
>
> Sort of like studying Japanese grammar might give some insights about the
> English language and the nature of translation.   One of the works that
> disabused me of western notions of Japanese "traditional" arts was Edith
> Grossman's "Why Translation Matters".  (note -- she doesn't talk about
> Japan at all) Respect as engagement rather than obeisance.
>
> C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 9:02 PM Prof David West 
> wrote:
>
>
> Carl is very Japanese and master of Drum Zen.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, at 8:50 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
>
> Carl -
> Acknowledged.   The foreground/background thing is always tricky.   I
> don't mean to attribute any reality to "personal freedoms", yet somehow
> "not being an ass" is something *like* respecting others "personal
> freedoms", even though such are in some sense an illusion.   Perhaps
> someone can articulate this better than I have?
>
> - Steve
>
> Steve,
>
> You assume I have some fealty to the notion of "personal freedoms".
>  Perhaps that is unwarranted.   I just see no reason to be an ass.
>
> >>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are
> clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their
> personal freedoms.  That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:18 AM Steve Smith  wrote:
>
> Carl Tollander wrote:
>
> -9,-8.1
> But I do think it would depend a bit on the day.
> Oddly, never thought of myself as a libertarian.
>
> I think some pretty strong *Fascists* co-opted the term "Libertarian" for
> themselves.   My experience with the *L*ibertarian self-identified is they
> seem to lean toward a virulent extremist willingness to *assert their will*
> on others under the guise of protecting

Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

[Carl Tollander]

Dave,

Thanks, not there yet.Somewhere between Zen and Shinto, anyhows.

The test is a mirror, in the sense that it proposed a lot of photons in
short order that I would not normally consider, which brought some
opportunity for self-reflection.   A bunch of "gee, that's odd" moments.

Sort of like studying Japanese grammar might give some insights about the
English language and the nature of translation.   One of the works that
disabused me of western notions of Japanese "traditional" arts was Edith
Grossman's "Why Translation Matters".  (note -- she doesn't talk about
Japan at all) Respect as engagement rather than obeisance.

C








On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 9:02 PM Prof David West 
wrote:

> Carl is very Japanese and master of Drum Zen.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, at 8:50 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
>
> Carl -
> Acknowledged.   The foreground/background thing is always tricky.   I
> don't mean to attribute any reality to "personal freedoms", yet somehow
> "not being an ass" is something *like* respecting others "personal
> freedoms", even though such are in some sense an illusion.   Perhaps
> someone can articulate this better than I have?
>
> - Steve
>
> Steve,
>
> You assume I have some fealty to the notion of "personal freedoms".
>  Perhaps that is unwarranted.   I just see no reason to be an ass.
>
> >>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are
> clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their
> personal freedoms.  That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:18 AM Steve Smith  wrote:
>
> Carl Tollander wrote:
>
> -9,-8.1
> But I do think it would depend a bit on the day.
> Oddly, never thought of myself as a libertarian.
>
> I think some pretty strong *Fascists* co-opted the term "Libertarian" for
> themselves.   My experience with the *L*ibertarian self-identified is they
> seem to lean toward a virulent extremist willingness to *assert their will*
> on others under the guise of protecting *their will from subversion* .
> When I was younger (more juiced on the hormones and rhetoric and appeal of
> competition?) I was more seduced by some of that.  Now it just makes me
> feel systemically ill.
>
> I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are
> clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their
> personal freedoms.  That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 8:48 AM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
> There is another aspect of staying behind which puts more weight on
> maintaining local (e.g. family and childhood) relationships.   I don’t
> think this inclination is overtly authoritarian.   However, a strong desire
> to maintain a social fabric could lead to policing mechanisms for them, and
> that brings in (say) the church.  When a social network is more important
> than having any sort of purpose, weird things happen.   Wired has an
> article on some crazies up in Forks, Washington that is worth a skim.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *David Eric Smith
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 7:35 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest
>
>
>
> So this is metastasizing now, and there have been other decades when it
> wasn’t such a problem, or at least not as overt.
>
>
>
> Is that due to demographic sorting?  In more prosperous (or even just
> earlier) times, enough people stayed near where they were born that
> cultures got some mix of preferences, and you didn’t have whole regions
> “submitting too much to the authorities in their lives”.  But when those
> who wanted out could get out, and did so systematically, the ones who
> stayed behind could create a tailored paradise for the preferences that had
> caused them to stay behind?
>
>
> On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Roger Critchlow  wrote:
>
>
>
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/
>
>
>
> -- rec --
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:27 AM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
> There’s a page on the 2020 election where they claim, among other strange
> things, that Warren is a right-leaning authoritarian.   If that is true,
> which I doubt, it says to me politicians are mirroring the electorate in a
> very obscure way.   And I am pretty sure I am not far to the left of Bernie
> Sanders.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Stephen Guerin
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:39 PM

Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

[Carl Tollander]

Was momentarily confused.   Cerberus is a dog.  Cerebus is an aardvark, and
a better homunculi than I.


On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 11:43 AM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙  wrote:

> I know, right? And Cerberus is NOT a good shepherd. I mean, he's a good
> deterrent as long as he stands in the doorway. But when he heads out to do
> his business and the homunculi scatter, there's no good way to round 'em up
> again.
>
> On 10/12/20 10:06 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Ha ha, someone broke the lock in Glen's homunculus dungeon.
>
>
> --
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
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> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

[Carl Tollander]

Steve,

You assume I have some fealty to the notion of "personal freedoms".
 Perhaps that is unwarranted.   I just see no reason to be an ass.

>>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are
clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their
personal freedoms.  That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.


On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:18 AM Steve Smith  wrote:

> Carl Tollander wrote:
>
> -9,-8.1
> But I do think it would depend a bit on the day.
> Oddly, never thought of myself as a libertarian.
>
> I think some pretty strong *Fascists* co-opted the term "Libertarian" for
> themselves.   My experience with the *L*ibertarian self-identified is they
> seem to lean toward a virulent extremist willingness to *assert their will*
> on others under the guise of protecting *their will from subversion* .
> When I was younger (more juiced on the hormones and rhetoric and appeal of
> competition?) I was more seduced by some of that.  Now it just makes me
> feel systemically ill.
>
> I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are
> clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their
> personal freedoms.  That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 8:48 AM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>> There is another aspect of staying behind which puts more weight on
>> maintaining local (e.g. family and childhood) relationships.   I don’t
>> think this inclination is overtly authoritarian.   However, a strong desire
>> to maintain a social fabric could lead to policing mechanisms for them, and
>> that brings in (say) the church.  When a social network is more important
>> than having any sort of purpose, weird things happen.   Wired has an
>> article on some crazies up in Forks, Washington that is worth a skim.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *David Eric Smith
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 7:35 AM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam@redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest
>>
>>
>>
>> So this is metastasizing now, and there have been other decades when it
>> wasn’t such a problem, or at least not as overt.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is that due to demographic sorting?  In more prosperous (or even just
>> earlier) times, enough people stayed near where they were born that
>> cultures got some mix of preferences, and you didn’t have whole regions
>> “submitting too much to the authorities in their lives”.  But when those
>> who wanted out could get out, and did so systematically, the ones who
>> stayed behind could create a tailored paradise for the preferences that had
>> caused them to stay behind?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Roger Critchlow  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/
>>
>>
>>
>> -- rec --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:27 AM Marcus Daniels 
>> wrote:
>>
>> There’s a page on the 2020 election where they claim, among other strange
>> things, that Warren is a right-leaning authoritarian.   If that is true,
>> which I doubt, it says to me politicians are mirroring the electorate in a
>> very obscure way.   And I am pretty sure I am not far to the left of Bernie
>> Sanders.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Stephen Guerin
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:39 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam@redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest
>>
>>
>>
>> ec=-5.75 & soc=-6.3
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 9:18 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I’m more of a libertarian than Dave is?  Something MUST be wrong, here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,U3OccPSjskXK4svW9X1qk3Vv7E5UwkKy9mLBuwBfoPfJKYxJ6aCBK0PVs7udT_TYGhprp1R603GJlx6xKqM35rw3C-x7J0zwGZ6_tMf3hqMPHZB64xRxPw,,&typo=1>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 6:39 PM
>>

Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

[Carl Tollander]

-9,-8.1
But I do think it would depend a bit on the day.
Oddly, never thought of myself as a libertarian.


On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 8:48 AM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> There is another aspect of staying behind which puts more weight on
> maintaining local (e.g. family and childhood) relationships.   I don’t
> think this inclination is overtly authoritarian.   However, a strong desire
> to maintain a social fabric could lead to policing mechanisms for them, and
> that brings in (say) the church.  When a social network is more important
> than having any sort of purpose, weird things happen.   Wired has an
> article on some crazies up in Forks, Washington that is worth a skim.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *David Eric Smith
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 7:35 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest
>
>
>
> So this is metastasizing now, and there have been other decades when it
> wasn’t such a problem, or at least not as overt.
>
>
>
> Is that due to demographic sorting?  In more prosperous (or even just
> earlier) times, enough people stayed near where they were born that
> cultures got some mix of preferences, and you didn’t have whole regions
> “submitting too much to the authorities in their lives”.  But when those
> who wanted out could get out, and did so systematically, the ones who
> stayed behind could create a tailored paradise for the preferences that had
> caused them to stay behind?
>
>
>
> On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Roger Critchlow  wrote:
>
>
>
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/
>
>
>
> -- rec --
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:27 AM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
> There’s a page on the 2020 election where they claim, among other strange
> things, that Warren is a right-leaning authoritarian.   If that is true,
> which I doubt, it says to me politicians are mirroring the electorate in a
> very obscure way.   And I am pretty sure I am not far to the left of Bernie
> Sanders.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Stephen Guerin
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:39 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest
>
>
>
> ec=-5.75 & soc=-6.3
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 9:18 PM  wrote:
>
> I’m more of a libertarian than Dave is?  Something MUST be wrong, here.
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 6:39 PM
> *To:* friam@redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest
>
>
>
> Econ left/right:  -0.88
>
> Social Lib/Auth: -6.1
>
>
>
> davew
>
> NOT a Libertarian
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, at 5:56 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Do we all agree at an insanely high level?  Then wtf have we been arguing
> about all these years.  Let’s wait until Glen and Dave take the test before
> we bury all our hatchets.
>
>
>
> n
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Gary Schiltz
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 5:29 PM
>
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest
>
>
>
> I was pretty much dead center in the lower left quadrant, which was
> surprising to me. I would have thought I would be in the middle of the
> whole graph.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 4:52 PM George Duncan  wrote:
>
> Jon, I took it. I'm barely left on economics and strongly libertarian on
> social issues
>
>
>
> George Duncan
>
> Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
>
> georgeduncanart.com
> 
>
> See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
>
> Land: (505) 983-6895
>
> Mobile: (505) 469-4671
>
>
>
> My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and
> luminous chaos.
>
>
>
> "Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may
> then be a valuable delusion."
>
> 

Re: [FRIAM] Getting You Libertarians' Goats

[Carl Tollander]

Yes to Ikegami's "Bonds of Civility"and her other book "Taming of the
Samurai".

Carl


On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 4:14 PM David Eric Smith 
wrote:

> This idea of places where people of different walks “encounter each other”
> — or even better have something meaningful to do with each other, has an
> interesting role at a certain period of social change in Japan.
>
> From a friend and colleague:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Bonds-Civility-Aesthetic-Political-Structural/dp/0521601150
> The author argues that the creation of “publics” was an important social
> innovation in getting around the codified barriers in an officially feudal
> society, de facto before it was possible de jure.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2020, at 1:27 PM,  <
> thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This should do it!
>
>
> https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/michael-j-sandel/the-tyranny-of-merit/
> 
>
> The thesis is that “meritocracy” is the cause of the fact that the us is
> now the least socially mobile country among the western democracies.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
> 
>
>
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>
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Re: [FRIAM] Masks and Face Shields

[Carl Tollander]

Owen, the masks from https://rendallco.com/ seem roomier than others I've
tried.   The "Sentry" feels a bit bigger than the "Ace", though I like
both.  A bit on the pricey side.

Carl


On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 9:36 AM Owen Densmore  wrote:

> I probably missed it, but: Where can you find reasonably effective
> masks of the sort described?
>
> Size appears to be an issue for me as well. I bought a good multilayer,
> filter pocket mask. It fits tightly and has a nose wire. But it is too
> small from nose to chin. One size does not fit all. I got a large mask and
> it does help but it is not as well built as the first mask.
>
> I haven't had much luck finding a website that has multiple sizes, filter
> pockets, good descriptions etc. Any suggestions?
>
>-- Owen
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 4:43 PM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙  wrote:
>
>> This excellent description landed in my spam folder. So it's likely it
>> did for others as well. Hopefully, the filters that reroute Frank's emails
>> won't be the ones that reroute mine.
>>
>> The "80% of viral particles from entering your nose and mouth" link in
>> the Conversation article was from 2010, but it talks about the 20-1000 nm
>> range: https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/54/7/789/202744
>>
>> Your link to the built environment website is much more generally
>> informative. Thanks.
>>
>> On 8/17/20 7:43 PM, Frank Chambers wrote:
>> > I have been following reports on masks, face shields, and social
>> distancing with interest. The analysis is mostly fluid mechanics and
>> filtration. My specialty is fluid mechanics and I have conducted research
>> on automotive air filtration. I have served on the SAE Air Filter Test Code
>> Committee and been an expert witness on air filter testing. To start with,
>> the symptomatic who are coughing and sneezing are producing droplets that
>> are about 5 microns. The asymptomatic who are expelling droplets while
>> breathing, speaking, and singing are expelling droplets which are around 1
>> micron. The 6 foot social distancing rule is based on very old research
>> about how far 5 micron droplets travel before falling to the floor.
>> >
>> > I got concerned when I learned about the 1 micron droplets because of a
>> rule of thumb used for measurements using optics. Laser Doppler Anemometry
>> and Particle Imaging Velocimetry measure turbulent air flow using what are
>> called ''seed particles" to reflect laser light. One really measures
>> particle velocity, but makes sure that the particles are small enough to
>> move with the air. The rule of thumb is that 1 micron particles follow
>> laboratory air flows very well. Thus for a face shield, the gross 5 micron
>> particles from those with symptoms sneezing impact on the shield, but the 1
>> micron particles of the asymptomatic move with the air that is sucked in or
>> out by breathing behind the shield. The small particles just flow around
>> the corners of the shield. These aerosol particles can remain airborne and
>> travel through buildings. Shields only are effective for the larger
>> droplets. When Sen. Daschle received his envelope of anthrax powder, the
>> particles were about 1 micron. That
>> > indicated that it was sent by someone who knew what they were doing.
>> >
>> > These droplets of mucus surrounding virus particles change size as a
>> function of humidity as they evaporate, etc. The importance of asymptomatic
>> transmission has been becoming more recognized, but there still are
>> questions about how long the aerosols remain viable.
>> >
>> > On masks, there are different types of N95 masks. The basic standard is
>> that they filter particles which are 0.3 microns and larger at 95%
>> efficiency. They capture both the 5 micron and 1 micron droplets well The
>> N95 masks work very well for medical purposes except for the ones which
>> have a bypass valve making it easier to breathe out. These let out the
>> virus you are expelling. Surgical masks and homemade masks also work, but
>> not as well. They do a good job on larger particles, but are not as good on
>> the small ones, though they still are useful, even with filtration
>> efficiencies of 40 and 50%. There is a pretty good, very comprehensive
>> report on masks. It does, however, give more credence than deserved to the
>> study done at Duke which indicated gaiters were worse than nothing. A story
>> about this in the Washington Post generated lots of publicity this past
>> week. I read the report carefully and they were not even doing standard
>> efficiency measurements, ratioing downstream to
>> > upstream measurements. They just measured downstream and compared to
>> measurements without a mask. One has to be careful, because there are a lot
>> of non-peer-reviewed reports coming out from those who are novices at
>> filtration. It is easy to mess up, for the filtration efficiency can be a
>> strong function of the velocity through the filtration media. If one can’t
>> measure flow rate well, one can’t measure filter 

Re: [FRIAM] words for Nick (political-words focused)

[Carl Tollander]

Ah, but have you tried kusaya?

Carl


On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 8:37 PM Prof David West 
wrote:

> The year I lived in Japan, I ate sushi so much that I lost all appetite
> for it for a couple of decades. But my acceptance level has returned. It is
> quite tasty. I especially like raw tuna. I have had Fugu and the tingling
> sensation on lips and tongue is incomparable to any other dish. On two
> occasions I ate live fish, once in a tofu soup heated at your table; the
> fish burrowing into the tofu cubes to avoid the heat, then you toss back
> the tofu. The other time was catching a small fish with your chopsticks,
> dipping it in a hot sauce and tossing it back. As it wiggled down your
> throat the hot sauce felt like burning lava, then the heat exploded and you
> did not even notice the rest of the fish you ate.
>
> One of the wonders of being an anthropologist is eating exotic foods in
> order not to insult your hosts.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2020, at 1:29 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I would sooner eat Dog.
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Jochen Fromm
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 23, 2020 11:20 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] words for Nick (political-words focused)
>
>
>
> What is so bad about Sushi? It is a bit fishy and cold, but on hot summer
> days it can be refreshing. I am not a fan of raw fish but good Sushi is an
> art.
>
>
>
> -J.
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Frank Wimberly 
>
> Date: 8/23/20 18:52 (GMT+01:00)
>
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] words for Nick (political-words focused)
>
>
>
> I have never eaten nor will I ever eat sushi.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2020, 9:10 AM glen∉ℂ  wrote:
>
> I think the standard rhetoric is that the Dems limit positive freedoms,
> where the Reps limit negative freedoms.
> https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberty-positive-negative/ Though I
> have lots of problems with this (always false) dichotomy.
>
> There are exceptions, of course. Anti-abortion Reps want to limit your
> ability to get an abortion (a positive liberty), whereas Dems tend to want
> to limit your cloistering away from people different from you (a negative
> liberty) [⛧]. But it's a good enough dichotomy for most things. I tend to
> think of the Dems as constraint-based solvers (inverse map) and Reps as
> positivists (forward map). Personally, I try to be pluralist and agnostic
> and choose solvers that seem to have a history of working.
>
>
> [⛧] I'd be happy to live somewhere without any sushi, for example. Those
> damned Democrats keep trying to force me to eat sushi. 8^D I have the right
> to live in a sushi-free zone. Don't bring your damned sushi to go plate
> into the local tap room or I'll be forced to shoot you in the face with my
> 9mm loaded with 15 hollow points that I trained for a WHOLE HOUR so I can
> carry it in my pocket.
>
> On 8/22/20 5:26 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> > What freedoms are Democrats trying to take away?  The freedom to dump
> mine tailings in creeks?  That's the one that I can think of.
>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] guidance requested

[Carl Tollander]

Ok, there are various mathematician's blogs, but this one is pretty up
front with how she thinks.
https://www.math3ma.com
I particularly appreciate her ability to illustrate her thought processes
with diagrams.

For examples, I was particularly fond of
https://www.math3ma.com/blog/the-yoneda-perspective
and
https://www.math3ma.com/blog/at-the-interface-of-algebra-and-statistics

I liked the illustrations of more basic stuff as well.

For another less, um, colorful reference, I'd direct you to "Drawing
Theories Apart", by David Kaiser.
https://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Theories-Apart-Dispersion-Diagrams/dp/0226422674

Haven't gone into it much, and I doubt it addresses your question as much
as the other links,
but the brilliant.org folks look interesting.

Enjoy!
Carl


On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 8:42 PM Prof David West 
wrote:

> The following is a simplistic article about how mathematicians think.
>
>
> https://medium.com/cantors-paradise/the-psychology-behind-mathematical-thinking-4fdc3ab32bfe
>
> I find the idea behind the article interesting and, when I have time, will
> follow up trying to find 'real' stuff to read. But, if any of you are
> feeling generous and would supply me with some pointers or directions; I
> will really appreciate it.
>
> davew
>
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[FRIAM] Logic Extremists

[Carl Tollander]

Apologies if this will have already been discussed.

https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2020/05/10/logic-extremists/#comments
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[FRIAM] Virome primer

[Carl Tollander]

I'm about to plunge into "Viruses as Complex Adaptive Systems",
https://www.amazon.com/Viruses-Complex-Adaptive-Systems-Primers-ebook/dp/B07DR2Q7GP/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=9780691158846&linkCode=qs&qid=1587516171&s=books&sr=1-1

Read Chapter one in Google Books.Seems fascinating and accessible.

Seems like discussion should be going there.   What is the virus "doing"?
 Is it acting alone or is it part of some autocatalytic thing?   I
generally start from the notion that the virome regulates genetic
expression (mostly in bacteria, gut microbiome, and so on).

Carl
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Re: [FRIAM] FW: YIKES!: Coronavirus New Mexico numbers.xlsx

[Carl Tollander]

New MQL is out.
https://www.dhs.gov/publication/st-master-question-list-covid-19


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 10:50 AM  wrote:

>
>
> FRIAMMERS:
>
>
>
> "the government cant print money fast enough to save the economy"
>
>
>
> I have to say, this made me wonder just exactly what an "economy" is.
>
>
>
> Imagine us like so many well fed rats in our separate cages.  Food and
> water is brought to us daily by Amazon.  Municipal Services cart the waste
> a way. We exercise in our wheels. Our mates and young are by our sides.  We
> can see and smell our neighbors through the wires but we cannot touch. Life
> is perfect!  But there is no economy?  What's an economy?   See attached
> ,
> especially page 2.
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ?
>
> Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 9:43 AM
>
> To: FriAM 
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YIKES!: Coronavirus New Mexico numbers.xlsx
>
>
>
> I've seen a few articles with titles like "Coronavirus is the death of
> Neoliberalism" or "... Capitalism" and whatnot. I'm skeptical. As much as I
> reject analogies between societal upheaval/collapse and phases of matter, I
> do believe in inflection points. My guess is that authoritarianism is what
> lies ahead of us on the other side of this inflection. We were already
> trending that way and I bet we'll continue. This inflection looks more like
> a minor rate change than anything fundamental.
>
>
>
> This article was hopeful:
>
>
>
> The coronavirus crisis has exposed the ugly truth about celebrity culture
> and capitalism
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/31/the-coronavirus-crisis-has-exposed-the-ugly-truth-about-celebrity-culture-and-capitalism
>
>
>
> There's nothing more disgusting to me than our celebrity fetish. But this
> article was pessimistic:
>
>
>
> Invisible man? Amid pandemic, Biden sidelined by omnipresent Trump
> https://news.yahoo.com/invisible-man-amid-pandemic-biden-sidelined-omnipresent-trump-082411045.html
>
>
>
> My faith in my fellow humans' *tastes* is always crushed. Everyone tends
> to flock to the least common denominator. (My primary objection to
> instant-runoff/ranked-choice voting and pop music, as well as overly
> reductive rating systems like Rotten Tomatoes, etc.) The "wisdom of crowds"
> is an oxymoron. >8^D
>
>
>
> On 4/2/20 8:05 AM, Prof David West wrote:
>
> > Governments cannot print and distribute money fast enough to prevent a
> major collapse of world economic order and concomitant social breakdown.
>
>
>
> --
>
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
>
>
> 
>
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
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>
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>
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> 
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>

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[FRIAM] Master Question List

[Carl Tollander]

I just love the notion that there IS such a thing.   Everyone should have
one.

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mql_sars-cov-2_-cleared-for-public-release_2020_03_25.pdf

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2020/03/dhs-makes-master-list-knowns-and-unknowns-covid-19-outbreak/164165/?oref=d-skybox

Carl

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Re: [FRIAM] wifi repeaters?!

[Carl Tollander]

Xfi pods.  Get em at Xfinity store on zafarano or order from xfinity.com.
They just plug in the wall.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 13:04 Merle Lefkoff  wrote:

> Carl, I have Comcast.  How do I make this happen?  How can it help me?
> I'm facilitating on-line generative dialogue groups in several places
> around the world.  Zoom and Google Meet so far.
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:44 PM Carl Tollander  wrote:
>
>> I did some hunting a couple months back.  The Netgear Orbi units looked
>> pretty good.   If one has the Comcast xfi modem they sell a pack of small
>> plugin gadgets that are cheaper and very easy to configure.
>>
>> Mesh is generally way better than the alternatives.
>>
>> C
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 21:59  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anybody have anything good to say about devices to extent wifi
>>> range in a house.  The students sitting on the couch side by side taking on
>>> line courses is not going to work!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nicholas Thompson
>>>
>>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>>
>>> Clark University
>>>
>>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>
> --
> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
> emergentdiplomacy.org
> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
> merlelefk...@gmail.com 
> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
> skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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>

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Re: [FRIAM] wifi repeaters?!

[Carl Tollander]

I did some hunting a couple months back.  The Netgear Orbi units looked
pretty good.   If one has the Comcast xfi modem they sell a pack of small
plugin gadgets that are cheaper and very easy to configure.

Mesh is generally way better than the alternatives.

C



On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 21:59  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> Does anybody have anything good to say about devices to extent wifi range
> in a house.  The students sitting on the couch side by side taking on line
> courses is not going to work!
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Why is it the last several pandemics have come from bats?

[Carl Tollander]

Or, if you want some entertaining sci-fi on similar subject (HERVs and how
the CDC political interactions go wonky), "Darwin's Radio". and sequel
"Darwin's Children", by Greg Bear.

C


On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 9:07 PM Carl Tollander  wrote:

> This, re bats...
> TL;DR: 2107   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_KqzArksQU
> More: 2015
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=TRVxTBuvChU&feature=emb_logo
>
> Carl
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 6:23 PM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> Why is it the last several pandemics have come from bats?  and what's
>> with the unusual panic about this one?  We had bird flue, sars, zeeka,
>> Ebola (several times), polio...but then one asshole of a cold from bats
>> (they think). And it's as if they didn't know what to do. China didn't
>> instigate a quarintine quickly and was and remains in, denaial. Itally I
>> gather said: ah fuck it's coming for us? and the US is basically doing the
>> same.
>>
>>
>> And what's with a lot coming from fucking Bats? Is it that they're
>> unusual for being a bit like lizzards, and rats? and can travel far? or
>> just coincidence?  They're amazing to learn about. And I love it when
>> they're arround because they tend to eat bugs. two I hoped would stick
>> arround a few years ago. They sure liked what ever they found to hunt here!
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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>>
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Why is it the last several pandemics have come from bats?

[Carl Tollander]

This, re bats...
TL;DR: 2107   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_KqzArksQU
More: 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=TRVxTBuvChU&feature=emb_logo

Carl


On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 6:23 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> Why is it the last several pandemics have come from bats?  and what's with
> the unusual panic about this one?  We had bird flue, sars, zeeka, Ebola
> (several times), polio...but then one asshole of a cold from bats (they
> think). And it's as if they didn't know what to do. China didn't instigate
> a quarintine quickly and was and remains in, denaial. Itally I gather said:
> ah fuck it's coming for us? and the US is basically doing the same.
>
>
> And what's with a lot coming from fucking Bats? Is it that they're
> unusual for being a bit like lizzards, and rats? and can travel far? or
> just coincidence?  They're amazing to learn about. And I love it when
> they're arround because they tend to eat bugs. two I hoped would stick
> arround a few years ago. They sure liked what ever they found to hunt here!
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>

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Re: [FRIAM] climate change questions

[Carl Tollander]

Saul Griffith interview on energy flows and climate
(mitigation/adaptation).  Recommended by John Baez.
I think "solve" is a little strong, I'd use "address".
https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2019/12/28/how-to-solve-climate-change/

As to the issue of climate models being accurate over time...
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/12/even-50-year-old-climate-models-correctly-predicted-global-warming

There are a billion or so people who will be affected by melting glaciers
in the Hindu Kush, so there will be a lot of folks on the move relatively
shortly.

Carl



On Wed, Jan 1, 2020 at 3:09 PM Prof David West  wrote:

> Nick,
>
> The last sentence simply stated that human activities contribute, almost
> certainly critically, to the problem. And the only causal factors that we
> might be able to change are those same human activities.
>
> What is being stipulated is that humans, individually and collectively,
> must be the change agents. Other contributory causes like solar cycles,
> natural climate cycles, etc. cannot change or be changed.
>
> Sorry if the terseness of the original expression led to ambiguity.
>
> As to trust - yes, I am arrogant enough to believe I can follow an
> argument and understand the premises / assumptions / and conclusions of the
> models and reports produced by the experts. No, I do not understand the
> math or the specialized science. But, if the experts cannot express
> themselves clearly enough to meet me half-way then they are no better than
> witch doctors explaining how voudun works.
>
> The other dimension of trust mentioned involves avoiding being manipulated
> (politicians, rent-seekers, ecological cultists - and they do exist) or
> defrauded.
>
> Two examples, I am very leery of purchasing carbon offsets for the only
> way I have to go home once in a while - jet travel. A couple of reasons: I
> can't see exactly how my money actually does something other than line
> someone's pockets; and it feels a whole lot like spitting on a forest
> fire.  There must be a better way to spend my funds.
>
> I don't see the point in supporting politicians like Ocasio-Cortez or even
> Warren and trying to convince people to give up their cars or quit eating
> meat in order to reduce the amount of carbon being put into the atmosphere,
> simply because I have zero belief that it will happen. I do see a greater
> likelihood that money contributed to research on carbon scrubbers will
> result in something that will help and will be actually put into play.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 1, 2020, at 8:44 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Please see larding below.
>
>
>
> My larder is still broken, but it should work well enough.
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 1, 2020 12:19 PM
> *To:* friam@redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] climate change questions
>
>
>
> convict of what?
>
> premeditated Gaia murder?
>
> voluntary climate slaughter?
>
> involuntary climate slaughter?
>
> reckless endangerment?
>
> conspiracy to commit climate change?
>
> accessory after the fact?
>
> *[NST===>] All of the above. *
>
>
>
> Not trying to be either specious or difficult. I would be ready to vote in
> favor of human activity contributing the "tipping point factor" but not the
> cause.
>
> *[NST===>] As a philosophy camp-follower, I am curious about the
> distinction, but right now we have a planet to save.*
>
>
>
>
>
> The following is stipulated:
>
>
>
>  - Dr. Kwok, et. al. are correctly reporting phenomena and consequences.
>
> *[NST===>] Is the whole jury prepared to “convict” on these counts?  I am
> sorry, I should probably stop punning on “convict”, here.   I guess the
> real question is, are these proposition upon which we are all prepared to
> act?*
>
>  - The planet is getting warmer.
>
>  - Human activities are a critical component of the cause, and the only
> factors that might be altered to partially ameliorate the situation.
>
> *[NST===>] Sorry, but the last part of the above was unclear to me.  Is
> there a missing word?*
>
>
>
> But,
>
> How to I analyze the models (I am unwilling to just take 'The Experts"
> word on the matter) and evaluate the importance of the various factors such
> that I can start to plan a course, mostly personal, of action.
>
>
>
> What options are available to remediate the problem. What options might I
> adopt as an individual? What options must I try to convince the masses to
> adopt?
>
>
>
>
>
> How to I avoid being exploited - by politicians seeking power, by
> opportunists seeking an income, from fraud like green washing?
>
> *[NST===>] Dave, it seems there are two threads here.  One concerns
> trust.  An expert is just somebody whom we trust to evaluate the data for
> us when we are incompetent to do so.  I sense in what you write he

[FRIAM] Inflicting complexity

[Carl Tollander]

After looking at Tom's ref on FB about teaching Military thinking to 2020
election security infrastructure in democracies (
https://apnews.com/222bd1402c96bc487f5a0a2dc5bff12c?fbclid=IwAR2PSR8UxoSlEoulaar8ITN1vRNRChd34VVgcU6WMNM4vOwnaEmr0eFOsQw
 )

I recalled an  STO (Strategic Technology Office) article on MOSAIC from a
couple years back.
https://www.darpa.mil/news-events/2017-08-04

There's a bunch of stuff about weaponizing complexity, and whether one
approves or not, it is worth knowing about.

*“If we’re successful,” Burns said, “mosaic warfighting and resulting
effects webs will give us the ability to inflict vast levels of complexity
on an adversary to deter and counter aggression.”*

"Inflicting Complexity..." . Always suspected, but ..h.

Carl

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Re: [FRIAM] the Commons and Convenience

[Carl Tollander]

Trains in Japan.   Few folks in the US have any idea, at a visceral level,
what a high cognitive price they are paying for their pattern of usage of
the automobile.   Even if the vehicle doesn't run on gas.  Probably not
about relative economies, so educating them will likely have little effect.



On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 6:45 PM Steven A Smith  wrote:

> I'd say "it's hard to share"... any "Commons" and maybe even moreso when
> the Commons in question require big investment and technological
> development...   but I'm not quite sure why... it is as if whatever the
> Commons delivers, we expect more?
>
> It is also hard to give up "convenience", once habituated toit.   I can
> barely imagine tying up a hardwired phone line to get 300 or 1200bps
> internet service today... I think I'd probably do without somehow.  I
> once walked, ran, rode my bike miles and miles to get where I needed to
> go (school, work, etc.) but now that I have been conditioned to jumping
> in a heated/AC car and driving 60-80 mph with a good quality sound
> system and dozens of radio stations, hundreds of CDs ripped to the hard
> drive and Bluetooth audio to allow me to chat with family and friends or
> do some business or listen to a podcast, I'd have a hard time even going
> back to driving 55 or having to leave my windows down to keep from
> feeling a little hot on a warm day, much less live with my own singing
> or a small handful of scratchy AM stations.
>
> I think if I *lost* some of those conveniences for a while, I'd welcome
> the lesser things back in a heart beat.
>
> > Of course. And it's not only with broadband:
> >
> > Separate and Unequal Train Service Returns
> >
> https://www.dcreport.org/2019/10/18/separate-and-unequal-train-service-returns/
> >
> > Yet another personal anecdote -- Up until about a month or so ago, I was
> an advocate for public transportation, in particular trains, buses, light
> rail, etc. But Renee' needed her car worked on, the shop being *VERY* close
> to a trolley stop in Portland. So, rather than me burning lots of gas
> driving my 12 mpg truck up there to pick her up [†], then driving it back
> up there to drop her off, I recommended she take the trolley to the light
> rail, then I could pick her up at the light rail stop, here. It's important
> to note that her employer provides free public transit rides and all she
> needs is her nursing badge to board any bus or train in the Metro area.
> >
> > But even though the auto shop is only a few blocks from the trolley
> stop, she *refused* to take it. It was much more convenient for her to have
> me slice out 2 hours (1 hour per trip) of my day, burn a bunch of gas, etc.
> than it was to ride the train(s). And she's (ostensibly) also an advocate
> for public transportation.
> >
> > This episode challenged my understanding of infrastructure. I don't
> think Renee's alone in this. I've heard people complain of the tiniest
> things about their public trans trips ... someone smacking their food ...
> someone with body odor ... the drunk guy passed out on the seat ... someone
> clipping their toenails ... etc. They all sound like rationalizations, to
> me. Whatever the deeper cause, there's something about us as a people that
> prevents effective sharing. So, I'm now considering changing all my
> advocacy from public transportation to massive swarms of publicly owned,
> self-driving, electric cars. And I'll start trashing Amtrak and Portland's
> TriMet every chance I get. 8^)
> >
> >
> >
> > [†] I could have picked her up on my 55 mpg motorcycle. But my guess is
> she would have chafed at having to carry and put on her gear for such a
> short ride ... plus it was a bit cold and all that other "discomfort".
> >
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC 
> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Re: [FRIAM] the Commons and Convenience

[Carl Tollander]

I find that if I have a more economical vehicle, that I'm somehow motivated
to drive more.  " Fuel Economy" may here be more of a dimensional collapse
to a more easily apprehended category.   Anyhow

Why is that?   The hybrid car (RAV4 hybrid) will gradually train me, via
feedback availability ("look how 'our" regenerative braking is working,
hey, don't watch the dash screen too much") and tiny rewards ("good work,
your eco score is 80, try to work on your acceleration") to drive in a
certain way.   I can see that happening, and that I'm slightly uncomfy
about being so trainable, but yes, at 50MPG I feel somewhat virtuous, even
if I am driving 25 up Agua Fria.  Works better than the "Your Speed"
implied threat of a ticket devices placed around the city.  Not unlike
being glued to a phone screen.

Despite all that, I suspect people rebel at things that are good for the
commons because they dislike the idea of giving up some notion of their
free will as a consequence of (even indirectly) serving the commons.

In a similar vein, I find myself reading Isabelle Stengers these days, alas
in many respects because I am an English major and am easily attracted to
(deceived by?) interesting usage of commas.
http://openhumanitiespress.org/books/download/Stengers_2015_In-Catastrophic-Times.pdf
.
I used to enjoy Thomas Carlyle, on the other end of the political spectrum,
and the rhythm of the prose is, seems to me, similar.

Carl

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 6:45 PM Steven A Smith  wrote:

> I'd say "it's hard to share"... any "Commons" and maybe even moreso when
> the Commons in question require big investment and technological
> development...   but I'm not quite sure why... it is as if whatever the
> Commons delivers, we expect more?
>
> It is also hard to give up "convenience", once habituated toit.   I can
> barely imagine tying up a hardwired phone line to get 300 or 1200bps
> internet service today... I think I'd probably do without somehow.  I
> once walked, ran, rode my bike miles and miles to get where I needed to
> go (school, work, etc.) but now that I have been conditioned to jumping
> in a heated/AC car and driving 60-80 mph with a good quality sound
> system and dozens of radio stations, hundreds of CDs ripped to the hard
> drive and Bluetooth audio to allow me to chat with family and friends or
> do some business or listen to a podcast, I'd have a hard time even going
> back to driving 55 or having to leave my windows down to keep from
> feeling a little hot on a warm day, much less live with my own singing
> or a small handful of scratchy AM stations.
>
> I think if I *lost* some of those conveniences for a while, I'd welcome
> the lesser things back in a heart beat.
>
> > Of course. And it's not only with broadband:
> >
> > Separate and Unequal Train Service Returns
> >
> https://www.dcreport.org/2019/10/18/separate-and-unequal-train-service-returns/
> >
> > Yet another personal anecdote -- Up until about a month or so ago, I was
> an advocate for public transportation, in particular trains, buses, light
> rail, etc. But Renee' needed her car worked on, the shop being *VERY* close
> to a trolley stop in Portland. So, rather than me burning lots of gas
> driving my 12 mpg truck up there to pick her up [†], then driving it back
> up there to drop her off, I recommended she take the trolley to the light
> rail, then I could pick her up at the light rail stop, here. It's important
> to note that her employer provides free public transit rides and all she
> needs is her nursing badge to board any bus or train in the Metro area.
> >
> > But even though the auto shop is only a few blocks from the trolley
> stop, she *refused* to take it. It was much more convenient for her to have
> me slice out 2 hours (1 hour per trip) of my day, burn a bunch of gas, etc.
> than it was to ride the train(s). And she's (ostensibly) also an advocate
> for public transportation.
> >
> > This episode challenged my understanding of infrastructure. I don't
> think Renee's alone in this. I've heard people complain of the tiniest
> things about their public trans trips ... someone smacking their food ...
> someone with body odor ... the drunk guy passed out on the seat ... someone
> clipping their toenails ... etc. They all sound like rationalizations, to
> me. Whatever the deeper cause, there's something about us as a people that
> prevents effective sharing. So, I'm now considering changing all my
> advocacy from public transportation to massive swarms of publicly owned,
> self-driving, electric cars. And I'll start trashing Amtrak and Portland's
> TriMet every chance I get. 8^)
> >
> >
> >
> > [†] I could have picked her up on my 55 mpg motorcycle. But my guess is
> she would have chafed at having to carry and put on her gear for such a
> short ride ... plus it was a bit cold and all that other "discomfort".
> >
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets F

Re: [FRIAM] Better self phone plan deals?

[Carl Tollander]

My Google Fi (TMobile & Sprint & someothercarrier & Wifi) averaging about
45/mo.  Around 27 base with taxes, then $10/GB.  It could get up in the 80
buck range if you used a lot of data but they cap the costs (not the data)
at 6GB, so I would never pay more than around $90 which is unlikely for
me.   Nice international path.There's a new GoogeFi unlimited plan
that's a lot cheaper;  I may switch soon after I run the numbers.   The
Pixel phones (just got a 3XL) have spiff radios that allow Fi to switch
between best available signals (TMobile, Sprint, wifi) pretty seamlessly
(you don't notice when it switches).Granted, eventually Sprint and
TMobile will merge, but it's still a reasonable plan.

Google Fi is a Multiple Virtual Network Operator (MVNO).  More on MVNO
stuff.  https://www.engadget.com/2018/06/26/best-mvnos/

Carl


On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 3:22 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> Hi all my Tmobile plan at the moment is now at least 80 dollars. (it's
> unlimited data FWIW) . Thinking that's pretty hefty, I've been trying to
> find better deals and are frustrated at the lack of I've found.
>
> What are folks experience here?  Comcast has been in the cellphone
> business for a while and seems cheep BUT the phone has to be compatible
> with there weird stuff. AT&T is them.
> Any pointers on what the fux to do to get a fuxing expensive bill to not
> be reemed throught the noes?
> I like unlimited data because I keep needing it for the weirdest times.
> But this fuxing ridiculous,  to have a fuxing expensive bill with hit and
> miss reception. Surely there's something that doesn't suck nuts, and isn't
> a fuxing rip off.
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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>

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Re: [FRIAM] 1. Is the Equal Sign Overrated? Mathematicians Hash It Out | WIRED (Tom Johnson)

[Carl Tollander]

I first became aware of the equality issue from a Barry Mazur paper
http://www.math.harvard.edu/~mazur/preprints/when_is_one.pdf .

The Robert Goldblatt book "Topoi  The Categorical Analysis of Logic"  has
an honored place on my bookshelf but is mostly beyond me.  I keep it
because it covers a lot of stuff I encountered in my youth but never had
sufficient time to explore.   And because I like the pictures.

Carl



On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 11:39 AM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> In the work I did at CMU on statistical causal reasoning, we made heavy
> use of equivalence classes.  Our algorithms would find equivalence classes
> of causal models (generalizations of acyclic digraphs).  If any edge
> occurred in all elements of a class then it represented a cause between the
> variables (nodes) associated with the edge.  As I recall.
>
> ---
> Frank Wimberly
>
> My memoir:
> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>
> My scientific publications:
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 11:32 AM Jon Zingale  wrote:
>
>> Thanks Tom.
>>
>> It is exciting to see topos theory finding a place in the sun.
>> When I was participating in Dan Freed's TQFT seminars at
>> the University of Texas, we worked through one of Jacob's papers.
>> Despite the seemingly all-pervasive mistrust of category theory
>> (let alone topos theory), these seminars highlighted how this
>> wondrous branch of mathematics can elucidate the importance
>> of considering structural equivalence when there cannot be
>> a notion of strict equality.
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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>>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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>

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Re: [FRIAM] Optimization problem

[Carl Tollander]

Welding galvanized steel without proper respirators (even outdoors) can
kill you.  Research this carefully.

How about some nice thick wall pvc?

Carl

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 17:48 Steven A Smith  wrote:

> Gary -
>
> I understand better now...
>
> I definitely agree that the *most* naive eyeballing methods can be
> excruciatingly wasteful.
>
> I presume that your conduit length requirements are not precise... that
> you might be designing them to allow for leaving the window partially
> open but otherwise not subject to intrusion or compromise?  That seems
> to complicate the problem but may pose opportunities.  In particular,
> *I* might be looking for solutions which leave me with a *minimum* of
> leftover conduit by making them longer than their shortest possibles in
> some cases.  Or looking at it the other way, even if you don't need to
> leave the windows open much when "locked" a more complete use of the
> material might be obtained by relaxing the length a little without
> compromising security (if a given window can only be opened a few inches
> for example).
>
> I will be interested in hearing the results of whatever optimization (or
> satisficing) method you use yields.
>
> - Steve
>
> PS. regarding guerin's solution, an alternate would be to measure as
> suggested, then cut naively until the remaining spaces are larger than
> the remaining pieces.  Only *then* does one break out the welder and
> begin to piece together as-needed.   I don't think these are equivalent.
>   It also occurs to me that *2* pieces of conduit (end to end, unwelded)
> in a window channel might be *nearly* as effective as a single piece,
> albeit less elegant?
>
> > Hey Steve. The actual project is nothing elaborate. My house has a
> > couple or three dozsen horizontally sliding windows with pretty weak
> > locks. Since I've had a couple of break-ins in the past, I decided
> > that the easiest way to shore up security for that aspect of the house
> > is to just cut short pieces of 3/4 inch conduit to lay horizontally in
> > the spaces where the windows slide. When I want to open a window, I
> > will just stand its conduit piece up, and when I want to "lock" it
> > again, just lay it back horizontally. I asked on FRIAM because instead
> > of just eyeballing it and having lots of extra (even potentially
> > useful in the future) pieces left over, I'd rather use my (and
> > FRIAM's) brain to look at possible ways of optimizing this. Kind of
> > fun actually putting my mind to something for a change (retirement can
> > be boring if you're not careful).
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 5:55 PM Steven A Smith  wrote:
> >> Gary -
> >>
> >> I *patently don't* recommend my method, though it does have some
> >> charms.   I recently was faced with a similar problem to yours where I
> >> needed to cut and install trim around the perimeter of the room (with
> >> door openings) I just layed hardwood floor in.
> >>
> >> Rather than go into it in detail (I already did that and realized it was
> >> a TL;DR as usual, so cut it) I will just say that I approach these
> >> problems as *satisficing* and *constraint* problems rather than
> >> *optimization*.Once I had a candidate layout, I simply looked at the
> >> results and determined that the *waste* was acceptable.   Depending on
> >> the circumstances I sometimes prefer to have for example, 2 3' leftovers
> >> rather than 1 5' leftover, other times, vice-versa, depending on how I
> >> might use said leftovers in some future application (or hedging against
> >> a mistake in my measuring/cutting).
> >>
> >> Care to share what your actual conduit/pipe project is?
> >>
> >> - Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks for the links, Peter. I will probably use that software or
> >>> similar, to get a quick solution, then look at the MOOCs.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 2:52 PM Pieter Steenekamp
> >>>  wrote:
>  Two possible approaches are:
>  a) Solve the problem yourself. Use one or a combination of standard
> algorithms ( eg you mentioned linear programming and greedy algorithms,
> there are many more of course) and/or your own custom algorithm. If you
> wish to go this route and want to learn about the subject, I recommend the
> series of MOOCS by Stanford's Tim Roughgarden
> https://www.coursera.org/specializations/algorithms
>  Or, I think yours is probably a knapsack -type problem and the MOOC
> https://www.coursera.org/learn/discrete-optimization covers that
> relatively well.
>  b) But if you just want to get the solution you can use optimization
> software like
> https://www.ibm.com/za-en/products/ilog-cplex-optimization-studio (they
> have a free edition that will be good enough for your application) will
> solve it for you without you necessarily knowing how the software does it.
> 
>  On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 21:00, Gary Schiltz <
> g...@naturesvisualarts.com> wrote:
> > I'd like advice on possible ways to solve the following problem
> > (plumbers must sur

Re: [FRIAM] Everything she knows...

[Carl Tollander]

I first encountered "Cosmic Muffin" in the song "Deteriorata" from the
National Lampoon Radio Dinner Album in 1972.  Actually heard it on the Dr
Demento show.

Carl


On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 10:27 AM uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:

> I've never heard of the Cosmic Muffin. But your description sounds like
> something a friend was into:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_%28book%29
>
> He and his SO at the time suggested I watch the movie with an open mind.
> So, I did, and subsequently wrote these two log entries:
>
> https://gepr.wordpress.com/2014/12/12/law-of-attraction/
> https://gepr.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/law-of-attraction-again/
>
> I re-read those entries before sending this to be sure my self from 4-5
> years ago doesn't sound too stupid.  But, IDK.  Life's too short to be
> embarrassed.
>
> On 4/15/19 8:39 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > The cosmic muffin people seem to think that it Is important to think
> nice things (of course defined by them) and that nice things will happen as
> a result.They fail to see how they are a source of negative entropy and
> thus in fact an energy barrier for the larger population, and more often
> than not a tyrannical one.   No, we all need to suffer and sort it out for
> ourselves.   Spiritual freeloaders are not welcome -- they are just
> dangerous force amplifiers for `leaders' who in the end make a mess of
> everything.
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
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>

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Re: [FRIAM] Android phones

[Carl Tollander]

Still happy with my Pixel 1 and Google Fi .

C


On Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 09:53 Gary Schiltz  wrote:

> Looking for advice on escaping the gravitational well that is the Apple
> iOS ecosystem before I reach the event horizon. Hope it isn't too late
> already. The hard part seems to be choosing a device. With so many years of
> having barely any choice (other than how much money to shovel into the
> furnace), I'm now drowning in choices. HELP! :-)
>
> The hacker/tinkerer part of me wants something that I can install a custom
> OS on, i.e. LineageOS (formerly CyanogenMod). Any thoughts from that crowd?
> The "just want something that works" part of me is looking for something
> that us likely to keep working as apps are updated, and have "officially
> supported" OS updates. I'd appreciate thoughts from anyone in that camp as
> well.
> 
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[FRIAM] Simpler Spherical Cows

[Carl Tollander]

https://phys.org/news/2019-04-microscopic-swimmers-visual-perception-group.html

Really paring down the classical flocking rules...

C

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Re: [FRIAM] Manifold Enthusiasts

[Carl Tollander]

Nick,

This may help with manifold analogies.   Or should I phrase that
differently
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/rosetta.pdf . See esp table 1, though most of
the paper is probably more than you want.

Carl


On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 10:20 AM Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> Ok, so:  consider a corpse.  Is the skin of a corpse a manifold?  Now. Drop
> a shroud over that corpse, is the shroud a manifold?  Now, shrink wrap the
> corpse and carefully seal the edges.  Is it now a closed manifold?
>
> No, huh?  Well, ok.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of
> lrudo...@meganet.net
> Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2019 5:10 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we behave?)
>
> Nick et al., "surplus meaning" was the term I was misremembering.
>
> Further replies to Nick's further questions later.
>
>
> 
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>
>
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] are we how we behave?

[Carl Tollander]

OK, Glen, you walked into ta Futurama quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL7e05pClKM

Carl


On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 6:13 PM glen  wrote:

> Exactly. The problem is that nobody's honest in their feedback. Friends
> are too forgiving. Enemies are too harsh. Frenemies make a nice balance.
> But their feedback is too tightly intertwined with their own opinion of
> themselves.
>
> I wish God were a robot ... with a feedback channel impervious to DDOS.
>
> On March 1, 2019 4:43:50 PM PST, Steven A Smith  wrote:
> >All this evokes my memory of a favorite "truism":
> >
> >/I am who you think I think I am!/
> >
> >
> >
> >> Ha!  It's more likely that, "Every year, I edit out more details that
> >may contradict my opinion of myself."
> >>
> >> On 3/1/19 2:49 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> >>> An elderly friend of ours used to say, somewhat ruefully, "every
> >year I get more like myself."
> >>>
> >>> Keep fattening that tube, baby!
>
> --
> glen
>
> 
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>

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Re: [FRIAM] FW: Math emojis

[Carl Tollander]

Well, the emoji post is from a blog of a math grad student trying to make
sense of her existence as a math grad student and trying to explain
concepts simply.  I recommend noodling around her "other" posts...Baez
recommended her blog.

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 17:57 Nick Thompson  Well, Ok.  I can see that it's sort of like Carl Tollander's
>
> "Let there be a spherical cow," which always makes me smile.
>
> Or
>
> Even the micro economists',
>
> "Let there be a fully informed consumer."
>
> But how do we tell the jokes from the foundational insights:
>
> Like: "Let there be a number which when multiplied by itself equals -1.
>
> Or that howler of mathematical howlers: "Think of a number greater than any
> number you can think of."
>
> Or Knewton's  Knee-slapper: "Calculate the acceleration at an instant."
>
> Bridges built and airplanes flown on gales of laughter.
>
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of
> lrudo...@meganet.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 3:10 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] FW: Math emojis
>
> The joke (such as it is) is a discourse joke, playing upon the fact
> (incontestable to all fluent writers/speakers of MathEng, i.e.,
> mathematicians' English) that the fragment of MathEng "For every \epsilon <
> 0"  is perfectly well formed both syntactically and semantically, but
> violates the established pragmatics of MathEng. (Excuse the TeX, but when I
> try to paste the Greek letter epsilon into this window, hijinx ensue;
> imagine it's there, instead of \epsilon.) [Added before mailing: it occurs
> to me that you, as an expert on "pragmatism", may not be familiar with the
> linguists' term-of-art "pragmatics", which I learned long ago from my
> daughter Susanna, whom you met in Santa Fe.  The first definition Google
> gives is what I mean: "the branch of linguistics dealing with language in
> use and the contexts in which it is used, including such matters as deixis,
> the taking of turns in conversation, text organization, presupposition, and
> implicature." In particular, the "joke" in question depends on
> presuppositions and implicatures.]
>
> Even as a hopeless non-fluent occasional witness of MathEng, Nick, you can
> easily acquire evidence in favor of my claim about syntax by browsing
> mathematical papers for fragments of the form "For every [glyph] < [glyph]"
> until you are convinced of the proposition that the MathEng discourse
> community accepts such a fragment as well-formed.
>
> With perhaps more work than you can be expected to do, you might also
> acquire evidence in favor of my claim about semantics by browsing for
> contexts that convince you of several propositions about MathEng: (1) very
> generally, the glyph (here expanded as) \epsilon is used in MathEng to
> denote a "real number"; (2) the glyph 0, in both MathEng and colloquial
> English, is used to denote the (real) number zero; (3) the glyph < is used
> in MathEng to denote a relationship that two real numbers may or may not
> bear to each other, namely, the string of glyphs p < q is used to denote
> that p is less than (and not equal to) q; (4) there *are* real numbers less
> than 0; ... and perhaps more; whence "For every \epsilon < 0" is a
> meaningful fragment of MathEng.
>
> *However*, without sufficient exposure to MathEng discourses (and certainly
> exposure more than you have had, or would tolerate having in the present or
> future) it would be unlikely that you could figure out on your own that IN
> PRESENT PRACTICE within the MathEng discourse community all the following
> propositions are true.  (A) The glyph \epsilon is nearly always used to
> denote a "small" real number (or an "arbitrary" real number that "becomes"
> small), where in the context of "the real number system"
> (among others) "small" means "close to 0".  (B) More specifically, in many
> (but not all) such contexts, "small" means "close to 0 BUT LARGER THAN 0".
>  (C) The most common context of type (B)--at least for mathematics students
> and most, but probably not all, more fully-fledged Working
> Mathematicians)--are the MathEng discourse fragments "For every \epsilon >
> 0", "For every sufficiently small \epsilon > 0", and their variants with
> "every" replaced by "all". [This is an empirical claim.  I have not done
> anything to test it (although if you have read those Book Fragments I sent
> you, you will see there several examples where I *have* accumulated strong
> empirical evidence, from exhaustive queries of extensive corpora of
> MathEng,
> for other claims about MathEng: which should convince you, I hope, that my
> MathEng intuitions are not invariably pulled out of my ass).
>  I will bet you a shiny new dime that it's true.] THEREFORE, in the
> actually
> exis

[FRIAM] Math emojis

[Carl Tollander]

https://www.math3ma.com/blog/math-emojis

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Re: [FRIAM] Pondering weird english words

[Carl Tollander]

I got new tires on my car.   "Tire" in this sense, may come from "attire",
or "clothes, especially fine or formal ones".

Thus if we are retired, we are retailored?  I like this definition better;
we did not stop working, instead we have new "clothes",
a la Carlyle's "Sartor Resartus".

Carl


On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 2:58 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> Nick,
> ERMG So much that ^_^ . LOL good call their Steve on Chill-lax as old
> school slang.While reading it's really fun for me to go wait a
> second...what's that word actually mean? or associations i've had with it.
> Love it.
>
>
> Steve: Oh you Re-Minded me of a awesome phenomenon I'm seeing more and
> more on Twitter. People saying no to paid work saying they'd rather go to
> someplace they'll actually like to be at. That just happens to be charrity
> stuff so far.  A 14-15 year old swiss woman is making news for doing stuff
> to help her nations ecology.
> So far she's not Tired of doing that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 1:50 PM Nick Thompson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Gill,
>>
>>
>>
>> Words are FUN! Back in the old days, when Latin and one other language,
>> usually French, were part of a standard education, most words had a double
>> association, the association that we all have (RE-tired, to be tired again)
>> and the association that arose from having encountered the root for the
>> word in another language.  So, for instance, when I see “retired” I also
>> see the French word “tirer”, to shoot, which would make the world mean
>> “re-shot” or “shot back”.  But then I also have a vague recollection of a
>> latin verb, meaning to draw, and that leads me to wonder if perhaps the
>> original meaning had to do with bows and arrows and perhaps the underlying
>> metaphor is to draw back the string of the bow again.  Now, all of this is
>> probably wrong, and I will direct you to the correct etymology in  a
>> second, but just to say that having brushed up against a bunch of languages
>> fills one’s head with a bunch of stuff that normal people might find
>> bemusing.
>>
>>
>> So, try etymology.com.  Here is the entry for Retired
>> .  And here is the entire
>> entry. retire (v.)
>>
>> 1530s, of armies, "to retreat," from Middle French retirer "to withdraw
>> (something)," from re- "back" (see re-
>> ) +
>> Old French tirer "to draw" (see tirade
>> ).
>> Related: Retired
>> ;
>> retiring
>> .
>>
>>
>> Meaning "to withdraw" to some place, especially for the sake of privacy,
>> is recorded from 1530s; sense of "leave an occupation" first attested 1640s
>> (implied in retirement). Meaning "to leave company and go to bed" is
>> from 1660s. Transitive sense is from 1540s, originally "withdraw, lead
>> back" (troops, etc.); meaning "to remove from active service" is from
>> 1680s. Baseball sense of "to put out" is recorded from 1874.
>>
>> So you see, I was a little bit right, but mostly wrong.  But, right or
>> wrong, the associations are always fun and the sense that every time you
>> use a word, you are in the midst of a web of history is bracing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Once you get into this website, you may get lost in it.  This website is
>> just a guy who fell in love with etymology, and so not necessarily
>> “authoritative”.  Look at his bio under “Who Did This”.  He seems like the
>> sort of guy who should come to FRIAM.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Gillian
>> Densmore
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 30, 2018 10:59 AM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam@redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Pondering weird english words
>>
>>
>>
>> While reading a book last night  talking about some characters relaxing.
>> I've always been curious. If Re: is to do again. then what was laxing
>> supposed to be?
>>
>> Many people on this and the wed-tech list are REtired.  So do you get
>> Tired again then quit being a worker ?
>>
>> I seriously get these kind of words.
>>
>> Any guesses where they came from?
>> 
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>>
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Carl Tollander]

Alluvium.   Thus, Alluvia.



On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 9:53 PM, Gary Schiltz 
wrote:

> Arriving late to the party... how about “branch point” or “branch node”?
> Maybe “fork off point” ;-)
>
> 
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>
>

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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Carl Tollander]

There's also a book, "Kinematics of Mixing", which was more exciting than
it sounds, but it seems to have escaped my bookshelf so I don't have an
author handy.


On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Carl Tollander  wrote:

> If you are in search of a river analogy word, you might look at "Rivers:
> Form and Process in Alluvial Channels" by Keith Richards.  Chock full of
> terminology and field methods.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 11:47 AM, uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:
>
>>
>> I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network
>> where the edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.
>> Examples might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood
>> vessels or lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could
>> ambiguously refer to something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where
>> each thread remains separate, but winds around other threads.  Something
>> close to "canalization" seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the
>> generation (or dissolution) of the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are
>> not the type of words I'm looking for.
>>
>> There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or
>> "network theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer.
>> 8^)
>>
>> --
>> ☣ uǝlƃ
>>
>> 
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>>
>
>

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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Carl Tollander]

If you are in search of a river analogy word, you might look at "Rivers:
Form and Process in Alluvial Channels" by Keith Richards.  Chock full of
terminology and field methods.


On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 11:47 AM, uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:

>
> I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network where
> the edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.
> Examples might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood
> vessels or lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could
> ambiguously refer to something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where
> each thread remains separate, but winds around other threads.  Something
> close to "canalization" seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the
> generation (or dissolution) of the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are
> not the type of words I'm looking for.
>
> There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or
> "network theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer.
> 8^)
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
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>

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Re: [FRIAM] Ok STEM folks, explain?

[Carl Tollander]

Sorry try this
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156937272769369&id=645414368


On Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 00:17 Carl Tollander  wrote:

> https://www.facebook.com/10731093992/posts/1994344690599881/
>
> This is local in Santa Fe (Arroyo Chamiso bike trail I think near Chavez
> center).  Non-flash-flood sandy base is normally flat, about 2 pct grade
> maybe 4-5 feet below trail.  What is the frequency and how does this
> occur?  Why is this happening next to the path and not out in the middle of
> the arroyo?
>
> Solitons?  Skipping stones?  What?
>
> We live here; we should know this stuff.
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[FRIAM] Ok STEM folks, explain?

[Carl Tollander]

https://www.facebook.com/10731093992/posts/1994344690599881/

This is local in Santa Fe (Arroyo Chamiso bike trail I think near Chavez
center).  Non-flash-flood sandy base is normally flat, about 2 pct grade
maybe 4-5 feet below trail.  What is the frequency and how does this
occur?  Why is this happening next to the path and not out in the middle of
the arroyo?

Solitons?  Skipping stones?  What?

We live here; we should know this stuff.

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Re: [FRIAM] Backkdoor rob

[Carl Tollander]

That was a long time ago, but I recall it was mostly OK if a little
rubegoldbergian.  We had talked about a new line running around the
outside.  AC units can be had these days that don't draw much.  If its more
than a simple window unit you would probably need some work done.




On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> Before fam spends money on new AC...everything check out with the electric
> etc as far as you can tell?
>
> 
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> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>
>

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Lets try this again reaching out for advice and opinions

[Carl Tollander]

Having reasonable experience with presby clinic on St Mike's across from St
Vinnie.



On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 08:20 Gillian Densmore  wrote:

> I tried asking before. I am going to trust again:
> Problems: I do not trust Saint Vincents, want several clubs I can at least
> try, I probably need a job career resume helping types.
> Problems
> After Monday simply do not trust Saint Vincents. Owen/Dad has a tendancy
> to say IT must be their it etc. I got a secritary complaining to me about
> their staffing issues and omg omg we have no staff. Like I told that rude
> person. That's on them. Not on someone calling up for what ever reason. I
> got basically told to shove problem up my
> Saint Vincents has  No doctors regularly, no nurse practioners, and from
> what I can not a damn thing that actually works right.
> I am now looking for: Job and career types, fun, possibly a new GP, and
> basically a fresh start: new evaluations, what (if any) meds I may need
> A good and propper psychiatrists and GP with staff that actually pays
> attention and doesn't rant about their staffing issues to patients
> Voke/Joke rehab is a hap hazzard mess and hasn't worked in at least two
> years so I t will not work at all.
> I do not fully trust Freed my current psychiatrist because his
> "perscritions" are a jiberish half hazzard mess from dragon naturally
> speaking with out any specific spelled out to the letter how if and when to
> use meds. What stuff to avoid with said meds etc.
> The secretaries are rude and arguably incompitent
> And they are just a giant cluster
> On the postivie sides:
> Goals I am looking into  clubs etc I want to at least try and as dad says
> the top priority is help affording getting out of this bullshit rut.
> I want a actuall good and proper psyichatirst with a good and propper
> office with a fresh start..  Freedmans scripts are to be blunt a mess. They
> do not spell out exactly how and when to take meds. He has given me a ton
> with absuletly no spelled out directions wich to to use.  I am no longer ok
> with this.
>
> I want someone that can assist me in finding a job to support my zumba
> habbits. I refuse to believe that dos not exist anywhere in santa fe.
> If that is not the case:
> I want opinions, guidance and advice where to move to so as I can get that
> kind support and guidance. I am more than open to moving ABQ if it comes to
> it.
> I am sick and tired of being stuck and must get actual substantive
> grounded help getting out of a train reck of a life I have at the moment.
> I must have meetups, fun clubs to be a be in: I've found I love to dance.
> that's a fine place to start and someone sugested a meetup to try,.
> I enjoy walks as well, but the all of two groups are how shall I say
> flakey at best, It must be regular as in weekly
> I love sampling teas
> I love tai chi
> I want to try Kung Fu-
> I'd love to have a gym partner
> I am just trying to make concrete strives to getting my ass in geer and my
> act together in general.
> 
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> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Climate Change

[Carl Tollander]

I would rather,
 than worry directly about the predictability of the climate models we
currently have vs the population/variety/intitial conclusions of
researchers from decades ago,
 that we instead consider a range of climate risks, their consequences,
our responses/adaptations, and their consequences.
The latter may prepare us, and it moves that portion of the science along
in any case, and may yet eventually show up any deficiencies in the former,
but let's get underway.

Personally, I'm with Lovelock on the large grain future: the window of
action gets progressively smaller the longer we delay, and that the world
will likely experience
a "massive reduction in carrying capacity" (that's a euphemism) over the
next century.Looking at older cultures and how they survive, mutate,
die or flourish in analogous upheavals (e.g. mid-8th-century China or
black-death eras in  Europe) might be worthwhile at this point. Start by
assuming the fan/speed/blades and what/who hits it; what can/should we DO?
We should at least perhaps understand when we are waiting too long to begin
adaptations that are cheap, safe, economic or politically acceptable, for
Nature bats last.

Hope y'all like mosquitoes.

カール

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 8:59 PM, Marcus Daniels 
wrote:

> Nick writes:
>
>
> < IF climate models cannot "predict" past anomalies, why should we trust
> them now? >
>
>
> The European weather model assimilates 50+ types of measurements in space
> and time, including satellite data.   Obviously, these measurements were
> not possible except in the last few decades, never mind in the middle ages
> or before humans.   So whether or not there were even particular kinds of
> climate anomalies is a subject of some debate.For example, were those
> periods wet or were they warm?  Were they uniform across the global or
> localized to certain regions?
>
>
> Marcus
> --
> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Nick Thompson <
> nickthomp...@earthlink.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 29, 2017 8:27:21 PM
> *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Climate Change
>
> I dunno, I thought Pietr's point was kind of interesting.  IF (and I don't
> know if the condition is met) ... IF climate models cannot "predict" past
> anomalies, why should we trust them now?   Or did somebody already answer
> that.
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com ]
> On Behalf Of u?l? ?
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 5:40 PM
> To: FriAM 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Climate Change
>
> Well, I mean "models" writ large.  Even when gathering and reducing
> observational data, there's a workflow for doing that. That workflow relies
> on a model of a sort.  And integrating different data sets so that they're
> commensurate also requires models.  E.g. correlating tree ring based with
> other climate data.
>
> But you're ultimately right.  It's not so much about the models as it is
> the whole inferential apparatus one *might* use to drive policy decisions,
> including huge populations of expert climatologists.  There's probably a
> correlation to be drawn between people who distrust government and those
> who distrust the "scientific establishment" and/or the "deep state".
> People tend to obey/trust whoever they regard as authority figures (e.g.
> greater shocks to another if a person in a lab coat tells you to do it).
> Those of us who inherently distrust authority figures have a particular
> psychological bent and our impulse can go the other way.  It could be
> because we know how groups can succumb to bias, or how errors get
> propagated (e.g. peer review), or whatever.
>
> *That* is why I think focusing on the workflows (modeling) is important.
> Those of us who distrust the experts bear the burden of proof.  Hence, we
> have to really dig in and find the flaw in the experts' thinking.  To do
> otherwise is irrational.
>
> Those of us who can delegate and tend to trust experts only need to dig in
> when/if a skeptic produces a defensible counter-argument.  If all a skeptic
> has to offer are blanket generalizations about human error or whatnot, then
> it seems rational to ignore that doubt and go with the conclusions of the
> experts.
>
> If Pieter knows of a specific flaw in the way the experts do their work,
> then it would be a valuable contribution.
>
> On 12/29/2017 12:41 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> > IMO it is not about models. Models are complicated and controversial.
> Climate change in the artic is a fact, melting arctic ice is a fact,
> melting glaciers is a fact. In the arctic regions we can oberve the rising
> temperatures most clearly.
>
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St

Re: [FRIAM] Downward causation

[Carl Tollander]

One of the recurring conundrums of teaching.  Finger pointing at the
moon


On Nov 22, 2017 14:32, "Eric Charles" 
wrote:

> "Is there any way to put those two things together:  the abduction thing
> and the misattribution thing? "
>
> I would head in a different direction. The question is about, how one does
> the attribution; the answer is, most people do it poorly. In a large part,
> the history of scientific *method *is a history of determining the
> conditions under which we allow causal attributions. When I used to teach,
> I illustrated this most directly in my intro-to-behaviorism class.
>
> That class included a lot of discussion of applied behavior analysis
> (altering the environment of a person in an effort to improve their
> behavioral functioning within that environment). The central challenge is
> that the ABA practitioner typically only has access to the (usually a)
> child for a very limited time, and you don't want to jump to the conclusion
> that your efforts are working when external factors might equally explain
> the change in the child's behavior. We work up from very basic methods of
> increasing confidence. We eventually build up to an ABAB design, in which
> the prospective solution is applied, then removed, then applied, then
> removed. Every time the problem behavior goes away, comes back, goes away,
> and comes back, etc., our confidence increases that our intervention is 
> *causing
> *the improvement in behavior, because it is increasingly unlikely that
> some other factor just so happens to be varying at exactly the same times.
>
> Part of the process of "becoming" "a scientist" is increasingly the
> sophistication of research needed before you draw such conclusions... or,
> perhaps more accurately, how well you match the tentativeness-vs-solidity
> of your beliefs to the type of empirical evidence in favor of them.
> Eventually one is drawing on a wealth of difficult-to-specify
> domain-specific knowledge in support of any conclusion, but likely
> justifies the conclusion on the basis of the latest bit of crucial evidence
> (the one which, for them, solidifies the pattern).
>
> Though... suddenly I might have a legitimate response to your inquiry: I
> would hypothesize that people often mistakenly point at the bit of
> information that was crucial to them, rather than the larger pattern that
> the crucial bit of information brought into focus.
>
> With Murder on the Orient Express on my mind Hercule Poirot would
> narrate such a thing explicitly, would he not? He would say "The crucial
> clue in helping me unravel my confusion was X" and then he would explain
> the larger pattern thus illuminated. A lesser detective would act as if the
> clue itself were crucial in its own right - "This is the key!" - even if it
> was a trivial thing on its own, thus committing a dramatic misattribution
> by virtue of not being self-aware of the abduction taking place.
>
> Did that get anywhere?
>
>
>
> ---
> Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
> Supervisory Survey Statistician
> U.S. Marine Corps
> 
>
> On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 1:07 AM, Nick Thompson  > wrote:
>
>> Hi, Eric,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you, Eric.   OF COURSE, that is what I should have said.  Thank you
>> for saying it so excellently.  Peirce did in fact see causal attribution as
>> a form of abduction.  I  would hope I would have thought to say it myself,
>> if I wasn’t so distracted by the “counter-factual” thang.  But that way of
>> speaking makes me CRAY-ZEEE.  How can something defined in terms of
>> something that didn’t happen
>>
>>
>>
>> Before you wrote, I was about to get on my “mystery” high horse.  A
>> mystery, you remember, is a confusion arrived at when a bit of language is
>> applied to a situation where it doesn’t really work.  Causal attributions
>> are often falsely singular, in the sense that , we often speak as if  the
>> motion of a billiard ball was caused by the motion of the cue ball, say.
>> But what we really have to back those attributions up is a pattern of
>> relations between impacts of cue balls and motions of object balls.  When
>> we step up to the next level of organization, the confusion disappears,
>> doesn’t it?  Events of Type A are said to cause events of type B when
>> experiments with proper controls show that an increase in the occurrence of
>> type B events is dependent upon the previous occurrence of Type A events.
>> But to say that any particular Type A event causes a Type B event is an
>> abuse of language, a mystery.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any way to put those two things together:  the abduction thing
>> and the misattribution thing?
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric
>> Charles
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 6:43 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning A

[FRIAM] Downward causation

[Carl Tollander]

Of interest, also the whole issue...
http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/375/2109/20160338

C

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Re: [FRIAM] Opportunity to join a discussion about Charles Sanders Peirce

[Carl Tollander]

Yes, Nick, that.  Sorry to hijack the thread.  Carry on.

Carl


On Nov 6, 2017 10:30, "Nick Thompson"  wrote:

> Or did he just REALLY LOVE Sabine's rant and was looking for a place to
> shoe-horn it in.
>
> Speaking as someone who for 15 years of his career, put a reference to
> Popper in the first paragraph of everything I wrote, followed by a
> reference to Kuhn,  I really liked Sabine's rant.  High time.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of g??? ?
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 10:15 AM
> To: FriAM 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Opportunity to join a discussion about Charles
> Sanders Peirce
>
> Heh, I'm too dense to understand how Sabine's rant is relevant.  Are you
> suggesting that England, Smolin, and Marletto are tossing fiddled
> falsifiable noodles at the wall?  Or are you suggesting my hunt for
> similarities in the 3 models is something like her Dawid fallacy (the
> light's better by the lamp post)?  Or, perhaps, are you suggesting that
> entropy maximization is an example of trying to characterize an entire
> space of possibilities and, hence, something Sabine would appreciate?
>
>
> On 11/06/2017 08:54 AM, Carl Tollander wrote:
> > Hey, don't hold back, Sabine.
> >
> > http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2017/11/how-popper-killed-particle-ph
> > ysics.html?m=1
> >
> >
> > On Nov 5, 2017 11:09, "┣glen┫"  geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > OK.  So, I  hear you saying (please correct me!) that you do see a
> similarity in all 3 (England, Smolin, and Marletto) up to their attempts to
> find a non-teleological explanation for the structures to which we tend to
> ascribe teleology (teleonomic).  You're right that I agree up to that point.
> >
> > But what I was looking for was a deeper similarity: the core concept
> of all 3 is that the answer should be found by examining the space of
> possible states surrounding any given system.  In 2 of them (England and
> Smolin), the proposal is entropy maximization.  In the 3rd (Marletto), the
> proposal is less constructive, but still focused on the circumscribed set
> of states or distributions of those states.  In your prior post, you
> posited that Marletto might be more closely aligned with England, but
> England *contra* Smolin.  My response was that Smolin seems to be saying
> much the same thing as England.  So, if Marletto is consistent with
> England, then Marletto might also be consistent with Smolin.  And my
> stronger assertion is that England does not seem to contradict Smolin.
> >
> > If, in Marletto, we set the "recipe" to entropy maximization, then
> all 3 seem quite consistent.  What am I missing?
>
>
> --
> ☣ gⅼеɳ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
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> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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Re: [FRIAM] Opportunity to join a discussion about Charles Sanders Peirce

[Carl Tollander]

Hey, don't hold back, Sabine.

http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2017/11/how-popper-killed-particle-physics.html?m=1


On Nov 5, 2017 11:09, "┣glen┫"  wrote:

> OK.  So, I  hear you saying (please correct me!) that you do see a
> similarity in all 3 (England, Smolin, and Marletto) up to their attempts to
> find a non-teleological explanation for the structures to which we tend to
> ascribe teleology (teleonomic).  You're right that I agree up to that point.
>
> But what I was looking for was a deeper similarity: the core concept of
> all 3 is that the answer should be found by examining the space of possible
> states surrounding any given system.  In 2 of them (England and Smolin),
> the proposal is entropy maximization.  In the 3rd (Marletto), the proposal
> is less constructive, but still focused on the circumscribed set of states
> or distributions of those states.  In your prior post, you posited that
> Marletto might be more closely aligned with England, but England *contra*
> Smolin.  My response was that Smolin seems to be saying much the same thing
> as England.  So, if Marletto is consistent with England, then Marletto
> might also be consistent with Smolin.  And my stronger assertion is that
> England does not seem to contradict Smolin.
>
> If, in Marletto, we set the "recipe" to entropy maximization, then all 3
> seem quite consistent.  What am I missing?
>
>
> On 11/03/2017 01:27 PM, Robert Wall wrote:
> > Hi Glen, et al.,
> >
> > I'd *love* it if you (or anyone) would argue with me and help me
> refine my thinking or, better yet, change my mind and be able to explain
> how Smolin, England, and Deutsch/Marletto are fundamentally different!
> >
> >
> > I'll give it an equally feeble try. 😋 Actually, I see these three
> scientists as "groping" at something fundamentally the same: "How can the
> /appearance /of design emerge (in biology) in a no-design (in physics)
> universe?"  Well, something like that.  So, this joint concern seems (to
> me) to fall out naturally from the previous discussion concerning
> *teleonomy *or even *purpose*.--the former being an explanation (or
> description? See later discussion below.) or processes without *intention
> *and the later implying intentionality of a "maker" or "efficient cause."
> >
> > *Constructor Theory*, which could have been better described by
> Marletto, IMHO, provokes the idea of constraints and "recipes," both being
> emergent properties consistent with a Newtonian view of the universe as a
> physical system that "began" with initial conditions (constraints) and laws
> of motion--notwithstanding /how /it began. Through the interaction of
> emergent particles as the universe evolved, new constraints emerged and
> interacted to cause the emergence of even more constraints. One commenter
> did a pretty good job to help Marletto along with the explanation;
> Summarized:
> >
> > Without constraints, there would be a vast sea of undifferentiated
> and unlimited potential outcomes, but nothing would ever emerge to become
> ‘reality’
> > ​ ...
> >
> >
> >
> > Yet where anything is possible, it is possible for a simple
> constraint to emerge. And as several constraints emerge and interact, they
> start to force ‘things’ to ‘behave’ in a certain way, rather than being
> equally spread across every possibility
> > ​ ...
> >
> >
> >
> >  Within that reality, new types of more directly ‘constructive’
> constraints can emerge. Perhaps a particular molecular structure, which
> having occurred enables other types of reactions that were previously
> highly unlikely.  And each of these changes the probability curves,
> increasing the likelihood that a next-stage constraint will eventually
> emerge, shaping and ‘constructing’ the stuff around it, further changing
> and channelling the possible outcomes, and setting the groundwork which
> will enable yet more complex ‘constructors’ (and ‘constructeds’) to
> emerge.  Eventually, these constraints/constructors shape reality to such
> an extent that very highly complex outcomes which “should” be utterly
> inconceivable in a pure-possibility-laws-model of probability are instead
> absolutely inevitable. We see many examples: simple life emerges, radically
> changing the behaviour of molecular interactions; eventually a new
> ‘constructor’ emerges that enables complex life, which
> > fundamentally changes how these organisms interact; complex life
> itself enables the development of specialised organs that provide sensory
> and motor and intra-cellular communications functionality; sentient, motile
> life enables the development of purposive behaviour and (potentially) basic
> consciousness; etc.
> > ​ ...​
> >
> >
> >
> > At each stage, a new step - however infinitely unlikely before -
> becomes possible. Where will it end? Who knows, we seem to be only 13.8
> billion years into the process, with probably several trillion to go. Each
> successive major development step seems to accel

Re: [FRIAM] visualization of logic(s)

[Carl Tollander]

Check out John Baez's recent work on Azimuth blog

C


On Sep 22, 2017 17:50, "gⅼеɳ ☣"  wrote:

>
> Given the discussion of logic(s), I imagine a visualization where we take
> a language, maybe ZFC, come up with a set of sentences, maybe 100 or so,
> and place them on a 2D grid, where each grid point shows their truth
> value.  So, you'd have a 10x10 grid of T's and F's based on how those
> sentences evaluated in ZFC.  You also include a button or something that
> allows you to modify the language in some way.  E.g. click on the button
> and it removes the axiom of regularity and you see the grid points change
> from T to F.  I suppose you could do this with a smattering of sentences
> from first- and (first- plus) second-order logic as well.  I suppose it
> would be critical which sentences you included in the grid and their
> relationship with the underlying language.  In addition to T and F, you
> might also have something like ∞ for undefined, undecidable, or nonsense.
>
> What do you think?  Is this a silly idea?  Does something like it exist
> already?  Would it be interesting?  Useless?
>
> --
> ☣ gⅼеɳ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

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Re: [FRIAM] Doxastic logic - Wikipedia

[Carl Tollander]

I live in space, I only work in doubt


On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> Dear Glen,
>
>
>
> I don't know why I am so pissed at Feynman right now but this quote:
>
>
>
> *"When you doubt and ask, it gets a little harder to believe. I can live
> with doubt, and uncertainty, and not knowing. I think it's much more
> interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong.
> I have approximate answers, and possible beliefs, and different degrees of
> certainty about different things. I'm not absolutely sure of anything. And
> there are many things Ι don't know anything about. But Ι don't have to know
> an answer. I don't ... Ι don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by
> being lost in the universe without having any purpose, which is the way it
> really is as far as Ι can tell, possibly. It doesn't frighten me."*
>
>
>
> … is another one of those sentiments that we would immediately recognise
> as absurd if Feynman hadn’t said it.
>
>
>
> Peirce would say, for the most part, we cannot live in doubt.  We cannot
> doubt that the floor is still under our feet when we put our legs out of
> the bed in the morning or that the visual field is whole, even though our
> eyes tell us that there are two gian holes in it.  Every perception is
> doubtable in the sense that Feynman so vaingloriously lays out here, yet
> for the most part we live in a world of inferred expectations which are
> largely confirmed.  Like the other Feynman quote, it is wise only when we
> stipulate what is absurd about it and make something wise and noble of what
> is left.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of g??? ?
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 1:59 PM
> To: FriAM 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Doxastic logic - Wikipedia
>
>
>
> A better Feynman quote that targets this issue is this one, I think from a
> BBC interview:
>
>
>
> "When you doubt and ask, it gets a little harder to believe. I can live
> with doubt, and uncertainty, and not knowing. I think it's much more
> interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong.
> I have approximate answers, and possible beliefs, and different degrees of
> certainty about different things. I'm not absolutely sure of anything. And
> there are many things Ι don't know anything about. But Ι don't have to know
> an answer. I don't ... Ι don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by
> being lost in the unverse without having any purpose, which is the way it
> really is as far as Ι can tell, possibly. It doesn't frighten me."
>
>
>
> He was talking in the context of religion, but I think it applies to every
> type of "knowledge", including the "thought manipulation" that is
> philosophy.  The point is not that "thought manipulation" can never be
> useful.  But that one can _justifiably_ take the position that philosophy
> should (moral imperative) be done in the _service_ of something else.
>
>
>
> You cited Smullyan in the OP, which is relevant.  Many of Smullyan's
> publications are puzzles, games.  Some of us simply enjoy puzzles. (I
> don't.) But every puzzle is a math problem.  It's up to the puzzle solver
> to settle on why they're solving puzzles.  Are they doing it because it
> FEELS good?  Or are they doing it because either the solutions or the
> exercises facilitate some other objective?  Some puzzle solvers (e.g. video
> gamers) find themselves in a defensive position, trying to justify their
> fetish against the world around them.  The silly rancor many "practical"
> people aim at philosophers can make some of them defensive.  And it's a
> real shame that we shame philosophers for doing it just because they enjoy
> it.
>
>
>
> But it moves from merely shameful to outright dangerous when a philosopher
> can't distinguish their own _why_.  Someone who does it because it's fun
> shouldn't waste any time yapping about how useful it is.  And someone who
> does it because it's useful shouldn't waste any time yapping about how fun
> it is.  Get over it.  Be confident.  Engage your fetish and ignore the
> nay-sayers.
>
>
>
> On 09/21/2017 09:53 AM, Steven A Smith wrote:
>
> > Glen -
>
> >
>
> > I share your use of the term "Science" as in being an activity (roughly)
> defined by "the Scientific Method" just as I use the term "Art" as the
> process rather than the product (aka "Artifact").
>
> >
>
> > When I do anything vaguely (or presumptively) artistic, I think of my
> role as that of an "Artifex" more than an "Artist" because I feel more
> emphasis on the conception/making than on being tuned into or tied into a
> larger, higher group/power which is how I read "Art and Artist".  I have a
> similar ambivalence about "Scientist/Science".   Despite degrees in Math
> and Physics, my practice ha

Re: [FRIAM] The Gerasimov Doctrine - POLITICO Magazine

[Carl Tollander]

Recycled John Boyd?


On Sep 5, 2017 09:33, "Tom Johnson"  wrote:

> Complexity Theory comes to geopolitics.
>
> http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/
> gerasimov-doctrine-russia-foreign-policy-215538
>
> TJ
> ===
> Tom Johnson - Inst. for Analytic Journalism
> Santa Fe, NM
> t...@jtjohnson.com   505-473-9646 <(505)%20473-9646>
> ===
>
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] well..so much for watching the ecipse in person

[Carl Tollander]

Caught bit of it through some cloud gaps, but on the whole viewing
conditions were less than ideal.


On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> And the messed up weather is still here.
>
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 9:44 AM, Frank Wimberly 
> wrote:
>
>> With my five year-old grandson here I'm actually thankful.  What happens
>> when you tell a young boy not to look at the sun, he looks at the sun.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> Frank Wimberly
>> Phone (505) 670-9918
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2017 9:20 AM, "Steven A Smith"  wrote:
>>
>>> With or without the eclipse, we can still admire the fireflies as our
>>> lifeblood oozes into the ground!
>>>
>>> On 8/21/17 8:54 AM, Carl Tollander wrote:
>>>
>>> "Ieyasu says 'wait' "
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Gillian Densmore <
>>> gil.densm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If this junk cloudy weather keeps up. Won't see a damn thing other
>>>> thank depressing clouds and a reminder the roof is leakingagain. Oh
>>>> clear skys they saidahahahahahahahahahaha
>>>>
>>>> 
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>>
>>
>> 
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>>
>
>
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] well..so much for watching the ecipse in person

[Carl Tollander]

"Ieyasu says 'wait' "


On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> If this junk cloudy weather keeps up. Won't see a damn thing other thank
> depressing clouds and a reminder the roof is leakingagain. Oh clear
> skys they saidahahahahahahahahahaha
>
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] Future of humans and artificial intelligence

[Carl Tollander]

The notion of AI's as necessarily sentient seems a bit of a jump.

However, I see a difference between an AI augmented sentience (a la a
spiffy AR) and a bunch of possibly sentient AI's flying in formation (a la
a murder of crows or a pack of wolves).

Going further out into Niel Stephenson's D.O.D.O. fictional world, all
sentients might be flying in formation with different selves in adjacent
possibility spaces (hi, Stu?), feeding off the information gradients.

However, my original point was that people project their notion of self
onto AI's, so narratives about self will predominate in any regulatory
scheme.


On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 10:20 PM, Marcus Daniels 
wrote:

> Here in the US there are many human animals to reign-in first.  Sentients
> will need to stick together and accept the help they can get!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:54 PM, Carl Tollander  wrote:
>
> It seems to me that there are many here in the US who are not entirely on
> board with Asimov's First Law of Robotics, at least insofar as it may apply
> to themselves, so I suspect notions of "reining it in" are probably not
> going to fly.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 1:57 AM, Alfredo Covaleda Vélez <
> alfr...@covaleda.co> wrote:
>
>> Future will be quite interesting. How will be the human being of the
>> future? For sure not a human being in the way we know.
>>
>> http://m.eltiempo.com/tecnosfera/novedades-tecnologia/
>> peligros-y-avances-de-la-inteligencia-artificial-para-los-humanos-117158
>>
>> 
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>>
>
> 
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>
>
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] Future of humans and artificial intelligence

[Carl Tollander]

It seems to me that there are many here in the US who are not entirely on
board with Asimov's First Law of Robotics, at least insofar as it may apply
to themselves, so I suspect notions of "reining it in" are probably not
going to fly.




On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 1:57 AM, Alfredo Covaleda Vélez 
wrote:

> Future will be quite interesting. How will be the human being of the
> future? For sure not a human being in the way we know.
>
> http://m.eltiempo.com/tecnosfera/novedades-tecnologia/peligros-y-avances-
> de-la-inteligencia-artificial-para-los-humanos-117158
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Janus colloids

[Carl Tollander]

Another attention issue
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-library-of-heaven


On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:30 AM, Carl Tollander  wrote:

> Well, initially I was reminded of Bruce Sterling's novel "Distraction", in
> which chemical manipulation of low levels of attention in neurons (The App)
> reestablished a kind of involuntary multi-camerality.  OTOH, just about
> everything these days initially reminds me of "Distraction".
>
> Howsoever, reading the article leads me to a notion that native speakers
> of less information-dense languages (for example, Japanese) have a greater
> substantive self than native speakers of other languages due to the greater
> attention to context required to make sense of any utterance.   Clearly
> this notion is fraught, and while the Japanese language is one of my
> current fields of study, I cannot quite bring myself to go there.
> Nevertheless I think it introduces the problem of discounting language in
> terms of discussing substance and vis-a-vis emergent selves.
>
> As a sometime Buddhist, one (who?!) may discover a bit of bias re
> substantive selves.   Though so must the Abrahamics.
>
> carl
>
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:00 AM, Vladimyr  wrote:
>
>> Glen and the congregation.
>>
>> I caught that news as well. A bit spooky, Leibnitz's Monads, then this
>> came in
>> https://aeon.co/essays/what-is-the-self-if-not-that-which-pa
>> ys-attention?utm_source=Aeon+Newsletter&utm_campaign=6898ff
>> d7fb-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_07_04&utm_medium=email&utm_term=
>> 0_411a82e59d-6898ffd7fb-69341065
>>
>> A nicely presented piece...
>>
>> All while trying to coax my own AEE (Artificial Emergent Entity to behave
>> congenially.
>> It's too warm to think clearly lately.
>>
>> That is currently my focus , namely managing folder and subfolder
>> creation with compact names using ahk Script...
>>
>> There seems to be  a lot of fire within the Complexity Smoke lately from
>> odd locations.
>> vladimyr
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ep
>> ropella
>> Sent: July-10-17 3:58 PM
>> To: friam@redfish.com
>> Subject: [FRIAM] Janus colloids
>>
>>
>>   Spontaneous system follows rules of equilibrium
>>   https://phys.org/news/2017-07-spontaneous-equilibrium.html
>>
>> > The research was spurred when Granick and Yan noticed something strange
>> in the laboratory. As they watched a random mixture of soft-matter
>> particles called Janus colloids, which Granick previously developed, they
>> observed that the particles sometimes sorted themselves by type. Named
>> after the Roman god with two faces, the micron-sized spheres have one
>> hemisphere coated with a thin metal layer. They self-propel in the presence
>> of an electric field, and when a rotating magnetic field is applied, they
>> move in circles. In the presence of these fields, about 50 percent of the
>> colloids orient their metal-coated hemisphere in the same direction. The
>> remaining 50 percent face in the opposite direction.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> glen ep ropella ⊥ 971-280-5699
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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>>
>
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Janus colloids

[Carl Tollander]

Well, initially I was reminded of Bruce Sterling's novel "Distraction", in
which chemical manipulation of low levels of attention in neurons (The App)
reestablished a kind of involuntary multi-camerality.  OTOH, just about
everything these days initially reminds me of "Distraction".

Howsoever, reading the article leads me to a notion that native speakers of
less information-dense languages (for example, Japanese) have a greater
substantive self than native speakers of other languages due to the greater
attention to context required to make sense of any utterance.   Clearly
this notion is fraught, and while the Japanese language is one of my
current fields of study, I cannot quite bring myself to go there.
Nevertheless I think it introduces the problem of discounting language in
terms of discussing substance and vis-a-vis emergent selves.

As a sometime Buddhist, one (who?!) may discover a bit of bias re
substantive selves.   Though so must the Abrahamics.

carl

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:00 AM, Vladimyr  wrote:

> Glen and the congregation.
>
> I caught that news as well. A bit spooky, Leibnitz's Monads, then this
> came in
> https://aeon.co/essays/what-is-the-self-if-not-that-which-
> pays-attention?utm_source=Aeon+Newsletter&utm_campaign=
> 6898ffd7fb-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_07_04&utm_medium=email&
> utm_term=0_411a82e59d-6898ffd7fb-69341065
>
> A nicely presented piece...
>
> All while trying to coax my own AEE (Artificial Emergent Entity to behave
> congenially.
> It's too warm to think clearly lately.
>
> That is currently my focus , namely managing folder and subfolder creation
> with compact names using ahk Script...
>
> There seems to be  a lot of fire within the Complexity Smoke lately from
> odd locations.
> vladimyr
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ep
> ropella
> Sent: July-10-17 3:58 PM
> To: friam@redfish.com
> Subject: [FRIAM] Janus colloids
>
>
>   Spontaneous system follows rules of equilibrium
>   https://phys.org/news/2017-07-spontaneous-equilibrium.html
>
> > The research was spurred when Granick and Yan noticed something strange
> in the laboratory. As they watched a random mixture of soft-matter
> particles called Janus colloids, which Granick previously developed, they
> observed that the particles sometimes sorted themselves by type. Named
> after the Roman god with two faces, the micron-sized spheres have one
> hemisphere coated with a thin metal layer. They self-propel in the presence
> of an electric field, and when a rotating magnetic field is applied, they
> move in circles. In the presence of these fields, about 50 percent of the
> colloids orient their metal-coated hemisphere in the same direction. The
> remaining 50 percent face in the opposite direction.
>
>
>
>
> --
> glen ep ropella ⊥ 971-280-5699
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
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> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] semiotics, again?

[Carl Tollander]

Seems like Kanji would qualify as such an exploration.   See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji particularly where they talk about
different "readings".   (also see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters for a broader situating
explanation)  Somewhat sideways, one could look also at the Kana (signs in
the domain of phonemes) and how they are pronounced slightly differently in
different combinations by different speakers.

Calligraphy might also qualify.

Carl


On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 6:26 PM, glen ☣  wrote:

> EricS' categorization of a cumulative hierarchy for reflective complexity
> reminded me of this:
>
>   A Linguist Responds to Cormac McCarthy
>   http://nautil.us/issue/48/chaos/a-linguist-responds-to-cormac-mccarthy
>
> particularly the difference between a "hard-coded" referent (e.g. a
> hypothetical neuroanatomical structure tightly coupled to efficient
> language acquisition and use) versus an ambiguous/multi-valent referent.
> And that launched my typically vague meandering back to the semiotics
> 3-tuple: .  Freedom can occur in any of the
> three.  A sign can refer to multiple objects, be interpreted by multiple
> interpretants, multiple objects can be signified by the same sign, etc.
> This leads directly to Sedivy's point about compositionality of signs and
> works its way back to my beef with the idea that subsystems like the BZ
> reaction (or any context-dependnt module) are complex systems.
>
> Unfortunately, I'm too ignorant of the fleshing of semiotics to know
> whether these freedoms (in any/all of the triad) have been explored.  So,
> please hand me some clues if you have them!
>
> --
> ☣ glen
>
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Carl Tollander]

Metamaterials.   Topological insulators.


On May 24, 2017 6:59 PM, "Russ Abbott"  wrote:

> Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't involve
> biological organisms (including human beings)?
>
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] re-use achieved!

[Carl Tollander]

Well, several things.   First, you can now better preserve your mistakes in
detail and access them for analysis so that you can learn from them.
Second of course are the aforementioned advances that enable you to land
the thing (though this may be oversold). Third I think is that those
advances let you reuse the rocket in an improved envelope that might have
been overwhelmed by small defects-of-rapid-turnaround in a bygone era.   So
I think its less a matter these days of can we land at all.   We've been
balancing broomsticks in a way amenable to machine learning for a few
decades now.   It's more how to we capture and employ the knowledge in an
end-to-end launch-recover-reuse loop and a willingness to take the risks.
Kaizen.


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Robert J. Cordingley  wrote:

> I wonder how much of today's success is a result of advances in onboard
> computing power and advanced sensor and control technologies. I'd imagine a
> big chunk. Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks, Robert C
>
> On 3/30/17 8:20 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
>
> Wow. Just Wow. First second flight. Ever. EVER!
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>> http://www.spacex.com/webcast
>>
>> 
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>>
>
>
>
> 
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>
>
> --
> Cirrillian
> Web Design & Development
> Santa Fe, NMhttp://cirrillian.com281-989-6272 <(281)%20989-6272> (cell)
> Member Design Corps of Santa Fe
>
>
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] very cool stuff

[Carl Tollander]

Metamaterials are much neglected in our discussions.
https://phys.org/search/?search=metamaterial

Possibly some thoughts to be had around ABM and 3D printing.

My own favorite metamaterials in the acoustic realm are wood and hides,
which kind of "print" themselves.

Carl


On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Roger Critchlow  wrote:

>
>   http://science.sciencemag.org/content/355/6329/1062.full
>
> reports construction of a metamaterial which is reflective at visible
> wavelengths and transparent at infrared wavelengths.  As a consequence, it
> can form a roof which provides shade from the sun while passively cooling
> the shaded area by IR radiation into space.  It has some aspects of
> Maxwell's demon, but it's distinguishing photos by their energy content,
> sun temperature photons are repelled, room temperature photons are allowed
> to pass.
>
> I don't understand the details of the construction as yet.
>
> -- rec --
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

[Carl Tollander]

Hell hath no fury as those who presume to speak for another...

On Feb 23, 2017 11:29 PM, "Nick Thompson" 
wrote:

> All—
>
>
>
> If you want to find the Dylan Roof key on your own emotional piano, think
> about the last time you indulged yourself in road rage.  According to one
> kind of evolutionary psychology, road rage is an instance of "altruistic
> punishment".  Altruistic punishment is selected at the group level.  When
> in that groove, we are so possessed that we are *willing to risk our own
> lives to support the norms of our perceived in-group*.
>
>
>
> Altruistic rage is by far the most dangerous emotion we experience.  Not
> how Trump works tirelessly to create the conditions that will foster it.
> Every genocide is preceded by “conditioning” to suppose that it is our
> highest duty to defend our values against those who do not share them.
>
> Nick Thompson
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Vladimyr
> Burachynsky
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:59 PM
> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <
> friam@redfish.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs
>
>
>
> Glen,
>
>
>
> I think Robert Wall is nudging close to an idea that he failed to
> adequately clarify but you may have nailed it while trying to deny it (this
> I call a backhanded strike). Last week there was a strange article about
> groups of people having the same memory that have no contact with each
> other. That shared memory was in fact  demonstrably false. It was regarding
> a misperceived memory of a TV show called Shazaam and some comedian called
> Sinbad... My mind retains utter garbage sometimes.
>
>
>
> I never saw it but then it never actually happened. The investigators
> explained that so many of the false memory components overlapped reality
> that the subjects truly believed some occurrence that was categorically
> disproved. So a society may well share memories of fictional events and act
> on delusions ie mobs.
>
>
>
> If an individual may fall into a groove then how else can mass insanity be
> better explained. I always recall that in history strange things happen on
> mass scale. For instance during the heated animosity between the Greeks and
> Latins a feud broke out over religious icons. West was Iconophilic and the
> east was Iconoclastic. The Latins were so pissed they assembled an armada
> in Rimini or Ravenna and sailed this monstrosity down the Adriatic to
> defend the faith. Somewhere between Brindisi and Corfu the greatest
> historical storm destroyed the entire fleet of ships sparing Byzantium a
> certain defeat. So Leo made a few compromises and things sort of settled
> down but then another group of serious iconoclasts  made trouble the
> Paulicians. Then the Muslims came along and the world is still fractured in
> many ways. It always struck me as the height of insanity to go to war over
> Symbols and I think Monty Python once made a skit out of crusaders and
> muslims beating the crap out of each other with religious banners and
> gilded reliquaries. While the armed knights and Saracens looked on in
> amazement. Whether this ever happened , I do not know, but can guess.
> Perhaps " the groove" has a darkside a suicidal aspect, such as the Battle
> of Gallipoli, as well as the neutral individual features we love to discuss
> openly.
>
>
>
> I always suspected that Hatred is transmitted from mothers to children as
> is influenza propagation. I recall some very strange conversations between
> my German Mother and Ukrainian Aunt that bordered on the rabid hatred of
> mad dogs. Then they just continued serving Christmas dinner in total
> silence,  when the men returned to the dinner table. My Uncle a  devout
> Catholic and former Ukrainian Cavalry Officer would think nothing of
> Beheading Russians long after he was defeated in the 1920's. Indeed he was
> otherwise a rational Civil Engineer with a penchant for Botany but he hated
> anything that sounded affiliated with Russia or Eastern Orthodoxy. I could
> never tell the difference except for the slanted foot support on the
> crucifix. Hardly enough reason for bloodshed.
>
>
>
> But Dylan Rouffe and Alexandre Bisonette slaughtered  defenseless
> congregations and showed no shame nor regret. They may be said to have been
> proud  of what they did. Anders Brevijk may well have been in a dark trench
> at the time of his methodical depredations of children, again no shame. No
> one mentions that that slaughter by a single man exceeded anything in the
> Old Testament perhaps a Cuiness World Record. Populism may well be a filthy
> outpouring of bottled up hatred. And the perverted demagogues revel in the
> delusion that they can manipulate it to their personal benefits.
>
>
>
> It is not a welc

Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

[Carl Tollander]

In another realm, look at Japanese transverse flutes ("shinobue" or simply
"fue").   So-called modern flutes are tuned to a western scale so that you
can get people from different parts of the world to play songs to some
reference.   For example, I have a #8 "uta" flute that is tuned to C, and
#6 "uta" hat is tuned to B flat.   You can see this in the varied spacing,
shape and diameter of holes from the major flute makers.  However, due to
the geography of Japan (central mountain ranges as an island "spine", short
rivers, many deep and nearly parallel valleys) there are many individual
traditional musics that share less of a standard.  A #6 "hayashi" flute
from nearby valley festivals is an approximate size; the hole size and
spacing is handed down; there's not much of a common scale.   So while you
see some similarities in song between different valley communities, the
actual notes produced have a lot of variation.   These differences persist
to the present internet , tunnel and train-infested day.   One can go to a
shop in Asakusa in Tokyo  and see many barrels of  recently produced
hayashi flutes from different regions of every shape and size.   This
speaks I think to my notion of the importance of development and there is
probably some analog to birdsong.

C


On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 12:19 AM, Carl Tollander  wrote:

> Well, there's order, duration, frequency and a bunch of other stuff.
> There is work from the signal analysis world, where people are concerned
> with fractal structure in signals as a means of compression, and tho its
> been years since I've done neural nets, I imagine heartbeats or nervous
> system signaling would qualify.
>
> As you remember, I am especially concerned with continuous
> developmental/learning aspects, rather than specific adult organisms at a
> specific time in some stable environment.  That said at my age I am of
> course biased.
>
> In my realm there is a figure-ground relationship at different scales
> between the developing traditions, the drummers, the individuals in the
> local group playing some arranged piece in the developing tradition, the
> drum itself (driven amplifier dynamics), drum design (much beyond
> membranophone descriptions and into wood types, metamaterials, turbulent
> flow, variance in the thickness and biology of skins and stretching
> processes, and such), the physics of the drum at the time it is played
> (humidity, temperature, what's happening in the drum next to it, how
> quickly it responds to that and the individual strike, the shape, mass,
> elasticity and internal qualities of the drumsticks, a large number of
> physiological qualities of the individual drummer and how each drummer
> works with focus, efficiency of motion and process,  the acoustic
> environment of the venue, the many ways in which the audience or a
> particular kind of audience responds and in which you can evoke or respond
> to those qualities.  So a complex drumbeat to me might not necessarily mean
> a sequence of beats, but rather a single beat in which all those qualities
> come together coherently (to me or anyone present now or in history) in a
> single hit.   Even if the state space of the aforementioned qualities is
> not precisely knowable just now.
>
> I don't imagine this is particularly different for any musician or that it
> necessarily qualifies as complex as you might mean it.   I'm certainly
> willing for that bar to be high.  As some say, you are the instrument, the
> voyage makes the captain, etc.
>
> Tying back to "temporal fracticality", the notion of temporal direction
> can maybe get factored out (a la Tralfamidorians) , ie many birds through
> their song are trying to get laid (temporal pun intended).   The eaglet is
> the father of the eagle, neh?. We make assumptions about how birds
> experience time.   There seems to be a "temporal emergent locality" that
> defines the horizons of temporal self-similarity (there's a lot of
> "emergent locality" stuff in the physics literature - not sure it applies
> here).
>
> C
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:22 PM, Nick Thompson <
> nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Carl,
>>
>>
>>
>> Good to hear your “voice” again?
>>
>>
>>
>> I think you might be the person best positioned in my life to talk to me
>> about temporal fractality.  Are complex drumbeats fractal; and in what
>> degree?
>>
>>
>>
>> Am I over stretching the term?
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>

Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

[Carl Tollander]

Well, there's order, duration, frequency and a bunch of other stuff.
There is work from the signal analysis world, where people are concerned
with fractal structure in signals as a means of compression, and tho its
been years since I've done neural nets, I imagine heartbeats or nervous
system signaling would qualify.

As you remember, I am especially concerned with continuous
developmental/learning aspects, rather than specific adult organisms at a
specific time in some stable environment.  That said at my age I am of
course biased.

In my realm there is a figure-ground relationship at different scales
between the developing traditions, the drummers, the individuals in the
local group playing some arranged piece in the developing tradition, the
drum itself (driven amplifier dynamics), drum design (much beyond
membranophone descriptions and into wood types, metamaterials, turbulent
flow, variance in the thickness and biology of skins and stretching
processes, and such), the physics of the drum at the time it is played
(humidity, temperature, what's happening in the drum next to it, how
quickly it responds to that and the individual strike, the shape, mass,
elasticity and internal qualities of the drumsticks, a large number of
physiological qualities of the individual drummer and how each drummer
works with focus, efficiency of motion and process,  the acoustic
environment of the venue, the many ways in which the audience or a
particular kind of audience responds and in which you can evoke or respond
to those qualities.  So a complex drumbeat to me might not necessarily mean
a sequence of beats, but rather a single beat in which all those qualities
come together coherently (to me or anyone present now or in history) in a
single hit.   Even if the state space of the aforementioned qualities is
not precisely knowable just now.

I don't imagine this is particularly different for any musician or that it
necessarily qualifies as complex as you might mean it.   I'm certainly
willing for that bar to be high.  As some say, you are the instrument, the
voyage makes the captain, etc.

Tying back to "temporal fracticality", the notion of temporal direction can
maybe get factored out (a la Tralfamidorians) , ie many birds through their
song are trying to get laid (temporal pun intended).   The eaglet is the
father of the eagle, neh?. We make assumptions about how birds experience
time.   There seems to be a "temporal emergent locality" that defines the
horizons of temporal self-similarity (there's a lot of "emergent locality"
stuff in the physics literature - not sure it applies here).

C


On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:22 PM, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> Hi, Carl,
>
>
>
> Good to hear your “voice” again?
>
>
>
> I think you might be the person best positioned in my life to talk to me
> about temporal fractality.  Are complex drumbeats fractal; and in what
> degree?
>
>
>
> Am I over stretching the term?
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Carl
> Tollander
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 16, 2017 10:49 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs
>
>
>
> Many birds do tend to migrate, so wondering what "stable environment"
> means here.
>
>
>
> Also thinking there is at play the developmental  environment (extended
> time of egg-to-bird-of-the-now) of the bird, as well as the outer
> moment-of-the-song environment.   How does one talk about developmental
> self-similarity?(we have L-systems for simulated plant growth and so
> on).As I recall from back in the day, self-similarity has limiting
> scale horizons, where particular dimensions of growth or development
> dominate to support the self-similarity.
>
>
>
> C
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Steven A Smith  wrote:
>
> Nick -
>
> This is one of your (wonderfully, and I mean that seriously) naive
> questions, and the naive answer is yes, they are surely coupled.   I'm very
> interested in "soundscapes"  so am often very aware of both the complex
> passive structure of most soundscapes (especially landscape vs urbanscape)
> and the active (birdsongs, garbage trucks, wind in the willows, sirens,
> ice-floes, domestic disturbances) elements.
>
> You are likely to have a better idea than I do about whether bird's songs
> are likely to be *formulated* in a more or less complex manner when in a
> complex "landscape&q

Re: [FRIAM] What does it mean to say that it will probably rain tomorrow?

[Carl Tollander]

Well, I think the weather forecast does not particularly care about your
particular location.   It cares about what area you are in where they can
make statements.   So, the statement that it may rain in Santa Fe with a
50% probability either means that in some larger region of which your
specific location is a part that it WILL rain all of the time in the time
period over 50% of the area.   Or that it may rain half the time over all
of the area.  Or that, given that you are in the area, it's 50% probable
that it will rain upon you given that it will definitely rain in the area
somewhere.  Or something else.   Not quite the same things.

C




On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Shawn Barr  wrote:

> Hi Nick,
>
> In an effort to diaspeirein(?), let me offer the following:
>
> According to the axioms of probability (maybe you heard this already on
> Friday), saying that something has a probability of 1 (or .5) doesn't mean
> that it will happen (or happen half of the time); it just means that the
> probability of something not happening is 0 (or .5).
>
> In terms of a weather forecast, (which I assume might be what you were
> getting at,) saying that there is a 50 percent chance of rain tomorrow
> could mean something like, conditioned on the present, rain happened 50
> percent of the time in the past.  Assume that the future and past are
> conditionally independent given the present and expect a 50 percent chance
> of rain tomorrow.  Or maybe that's not not a not (?) sensible expectation?
>
>
> Best,
> Shawn
>
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Nick Thompson  > wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>>
>>
>> We had an interesting conversation in the Friday meeting of the local
>> congregation concerning the question, “What does it actually mean to say
>> that there is a 50 percent chance of rain in Santa Fe tomorrow?”  Exactly
>> what operations would you have to go through to discover if that claim was
>> appropriate or not?
>>
>>
>>
>> I took the position that whether it actually rained tomorrow had very
>> little to do with validating the claim.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am wondering what those of you in the diaspora thought.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

[Carl Tollander]

Many birds do tend to migrate, so wondering what "stable environment" means
here.

Also thinking there is at play the developmental  environment (extended
time of egg-to-bird-of-the-now) of the bird, as well as the outer
moment-of-the-song environment.   How does one talk about developmental
self-similarity?(we have L-systems for simulated plant growth and so
on).As I recall from back in the day, self-similarity has limiting
scale horizons, where particular dimensions of growth or development
dominate to support the self-similarity.

C

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Steven A Smith  wrote:

> Nick -
>
> This is one of your (wonderfully, and I mean that seriously) naive
> questions, and the naive answer is yes, they are surely coupled.   I'm very
> interested in "soundscapes"  so am often very aware of both the complex
> passive structure of most soundscapes (especially landscape vs urbanscape)
> and the active (birdsongs, garbage trucks, wind in the willows, sirens,
> ice-floes, domestic disturbances) elements.
>
> You are likely to have a better idea than I do about whether bird's songs
> are likely to be *formulated* in a more or less complex manner when in a
> complex "landscape".   I would guess yes to this.I would guess that the
> three most relevant scales are roughly the scale of the bird's body, it's
> food-source, and it's natural predators.   How well can it hide, how well
> can it's food hide, and how well does it's predator hide.   I"m sure this
> is an overly simplified model.
>
> I think rather than fractal (literally), the more relevant concept is
> "with structure at many scales".
>
> IN any case, welcome to Alberto!  My own daughter happens to be a
> researcher in Flaviviruses, traditionally West Nile and Dingue, but now is
> drawn into the Zika thing...   I look forward to hearing more from you
> Alberto!
>
>  - Steve
>
> On 2/15/17 3:57 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> Hell, List,
>
>
>
> I would like to introduce to you Alberto Alaniz (who describes himself in
> the communication below).  I “met” him on Research Gate when he downloaded
> a paper of mine on the structural organization of bird song.  I noticed
> that he was writing from a Landscape Department, and I thought, “A
> landscape person who is interested in birdsong! He must be interested in
> fractals!”  And I was right.  So please welcome him.  Steve please note?
>
>
>
> The idea of his that I particularly want to hear you discuss is his notion
> that fractality (is that a word?) in one domain can effect, affect, impose?
> fractality in another.  So is there a relationship between the fractality
> which my research revealed in the organization of bird song and the
> fractality of the landscapes on which bird behavior is deployed.
>
>
>
> I particularly wonder what Kim  Sorvig and Jenny Quillen and ProfDave
> think about this, but also wonder if others on the list could put an oar
> in.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Alberto Jose Alaniz [mailto:alberto.ala...@ug.uchile.cl
> ]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 2:21 PM
> *To:* nthomp...@clarku.edu
> *Subject:* Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs
>
>
>
> Dear Nick
>
>
>
> I apreciate so much your invitation, so i really intrested in participate
> of your discussion group. I am a young researcher finishing my MS, and this
> types of oportunities look very good for my, specially if i can interact
> with other scientics. About your question, of course you can share my
> oppinion, now if you want i can writte a compleate opinion in extenso, and
> i will send to you tomorrow in the afternon.
>
>
>
> My field of study is the ecologial modelling and the conservation biology,
> the last year i published my firsts papers in Biological conservation and
> International Journal of Epidemiology, the first one about ecosystem
> conservation and the secondth is a global model of exposure risk to Zika
> virus. Currently im working in ecosystems and in assessment of habitat loss
> in forest specialist species (with Kathryn Sieving from University of
> Florida).
>
>
>
> *Alberto  Alaniz Baeza*
>
> Lic. en Geografía, Geógrafo & Magíster (c) Áreas Silvestres y Conservación
>
> Becario, Laboratorio de Ecología de Ambientes Fragmentados
>
> Departamento de Ciencias Biológicas Animales, U. de Chile
>
> Investigador, Laboratorio de Ecología de Ecosistemas
>
> Departamento de Recursos Naturales Renovables, U. de Chile
>
> Académico, Centro de Formación Técnica del Medio Ambiente IDMA
>
> +56996097443 <+56%209%209609%207443>
>
> https://albertoalaniz.wordpress.com/
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC 

Re: [FRIAM] they're here

[Carl Tollander]

https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/Perdix%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf


On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 6:49 AM, Steven A Smith  wrote:

>
>
> New Mexico's own...
>
> [image: 7th Sigma by [Gould, Steven]]
> 
> On 1/10/17 5:47 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/01/
> 10/watch-the-pentagons-new-hive-mind-controlled-drone-swarm-
> in-action/?utm_term=.85991c34140e
>
> maybe Guerin can provide a narration for the video?
>
> I'm going to remember that buzzing sound.
>
> -- rec --
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Divided America

[Carl Tollander]

I'm more on the "given that 'common understandings' itself can be fraught,
given a that 'deep linguistic structure' may be problematic (ie not so
fruitful as we may hope), let's figure out what can you do now" sort of
frame of mind.

For example, Sabine might talk about issues with "emergent gravity", and
that conversation is more interesting in that it has a different take on
"emergence" than I had expected than that it is about current issues in
physics.  Nonetheless, that conversation is more phenomenological, ie "what
experiments can we do next" to resolve what we're talking about.

Carl





On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> Well, I espouse it.  I might be the only one, but I am in.
>
>
>
> I admit to believing that bad things happen in chaos.  I admit that the
> historical record is kind of mixed on that point.  “Switzerland … peace….
> The cuckoo clock, etc.”   But I am willing to talk to anybody who disagrees
> with me so long as they share my conviction that the effort to achieve a
> common understanding is fruitful.  That may be just pure ideology with me,
> but it’s my ideology and I am sticking with it.
>
>
>
> Let the discussions begin!
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Prof
> David West
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 04, 2016 5:01 PM
> *To:* friam@redfish.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Divided America
>
>
>
> Nick,
>
>
>
> The mother church does have one "trumper" — in the sense that I believe he
> is a potential antidote for a whole series of toxic trends in the body
> politic and a rude (but decidedly earned) "f... you" directed towards a
> specific cultural elite, epitomized by Mrs. Clinton, her Democratic Party
> and its fellow travelers, the leadership of the Republican Party
> (especially those wrapped in the mantle of fundamentalist religion), and
> the current government as a body (there are obviously individual members of
> all branches of the government who would be exempt from this blanket
> contempt).
>
>
>
> If I did not vote for Trump it was only because I will never vote for
> either Democrat or Republican; to me it would be an act of collusion.
>
>
>
> The schadenfreude you observe comes from two sources: first a kind of
> gloating, I have consistently said, since January, that Trump would win and
> told everyone exactly why; second, I find the hysteria (and hypocrisy) of
> the 'losers' extremely amusing.
>
>
>
> Clearly there are many who are frightened at the prospect of a Trump
> administration. I sympathize, but would suggest that those fears arise from
> a woefully incomplete understanding of the forces — the people who comprise
> the core and majority of his support and their values — that made Trump
> possible. Further, perhaps it would be useful to determine the degree to
> which fear of "unruly elements" is a function of ethnocentrism — believing
> that your 'culture' is the only one capable of intelligent, civic and civil
> behavior.
>
>
>
> America is not "divided" it is fractured. In no small part this is a
> direct result of the Democratic strategy for the last 2-3 decades of
> fostering "identity politics" coupled with the hijacking of the "right" by
> the "religious." What is to be feared, if anything, are the inevitable
> consequences that will come from ossification of "identities" and the
> elimination of communication across and among them.
>
>
>
> I might suggest that the current politi-cultural climate provides the
> perfect experimental ground to explore the possibilities of the Peircian /
> pragmatic philosophy of "consensus building via dialog" I have heard
> espoused at FRIAM.
>
>
>
> davew
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> Dear Jochen,
>
>
>
> Thanks for writing.   Frank is correct, I think, about the general tenor
> of FRIAM.  I don’t know about the diaspora, but at the meeting of the
> “Mother Church” I thought we had at least one trumper, but it turned out
> his allegiance was only *per argumentum.*
>
>
>
> I am pretty frightened.  I think if we all hunker down and if Putin and
> Trump don’t obliterate us all in a lover’s spat, we can survive the next
> four years without too much damage.  But that’s a big “if”!  What I fear
> most is that “unruly elements” will take to violence, and in the ensuing
> chaos, the democracy will fall to authoritarianism.  I also fear that
> nations abroad will not be able to see the long arc of history here and
> will abandon us to our fate, too soon.  So, I guess I am asking that those
> of you in the friam diaspora give us what moral support you can and that we
> all learn to resist in ways that are effective but will not cause the
> pendulum to begin swinging even more wildly.
>
>
>
> Thanks again for writing.
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Pr

Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR Daily | The New York Review of Books

[Carl Tollander]

Well, it *is* a 2010 paper.   Still relevant to the current contretemps I
think.

The more recent article (which I found to be fun but a bit less coherent
(see, how that works!) is at:
https://www.quantamagazine.org/20160421-the-evolutionary-argument-against-reality/
Atlantic picked it up later.

Can anyone really talk to anyone?   I'm thinking about compositionality and
languages and Open Source Insurgencies:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/networks_compositionality/
and
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/thermo/pollard_santa_fe.pdf
and
hmm, Google "open source warfare" (careful now)
and, one of my favorites right now is how very local traditional musics and
oral traditions get transformed into and by different cultural processes:
(this will be Japanese to most folks, apologies sort of)
https://estoestaiko.com/2015/12/07/chichibu-yatai-bayashi/

Carl






Carl


On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 10:15 PM, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> Carl –
>
>
>
> I would have thought that these results had been shown years ago,
> particularly with respect to self perception.  There is probably very
> little harm in quite a lot of over self-confidence.
>
>
>
> Interestingly, there’s an old result from years ago that married couples
> who are balmy about each other’s capacities do better than couples who are
> more realistic.
>
>
>
> It’s good to hear from you.
>
>
>
> nICK
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Carl
> Tollander
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 04, 2016 9:37 PM
>
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen |
> NYR Daily | The New York Review of Books
>
>
>
> Got this from an link from the Hoffman article in the Atlantic on
> "reality".  Regardless of the niftiness of the paper, I think it's
> interesting that somebody is using games to model how truth has come to
> fare so badly in our politics.  Talks up some varieties of realism, so, hi,
> Nick.
>
>
>
> http://cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/PerceptualEvolution.pdf
>
>
>
> If there is anything to this, my reading is that paywalls and "click here
> to disable your ad blocker before you can continue reading" sorts of
> activities by online media are a strong disservice to the polity and need
> to come down.
>
>
>
> This is also stimulating some thought on" lingusitic determinism" vs
> "linguistic relativism" brought up by the "Arrival" movie.  Never been much
> for "deep structure" linguistic theories.
>
>
>
> Carl
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
> Yes, looks interesting (somehow my mail client does not show all FRIAM
> mails, for instance I don't see Nicks mails, I have only received Merles
> response?).
>
>
>
> From a complexity science viewpoint the development in the US is
> interesting, whether it will be a step back into an oligarchy or autocracy,
> or even some kind of cronyism, nepotism, nationalism, imperialism or
> fascism, because all these *-isms are like a cancer for society. There are
> all sorts of fascisms, similar to the many different forms of cancer.
>
>
>
> From a psychological perspective Mr. Trump is interesting too because he
> is obviously not a normal politician. Narcissism is mentioned frequently as
> a character trait.
>
> http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-
> mind-of-donald-trump/480771/
>
>
>
> As a European from a continent with a troubled past I'm worried that the
> next 4 years will not turn out well. There will be an unpleasant wakeup
> when people recognize they have been betrayed and there is no peaceful way
> back into a glorified past in a globalized world. I bet there will be some
> kind of staged event which will lead to the next war or a totalitarian
> state.
>
>
>
> -Jochen
>
>
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Merle Lefkoff 
>
> Date: 12/4/16 21:57 (GMT+01:00)
>
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR
> Daily | The New York Review of Books
>
>
>
> Nick, thanks so much for sending this. I just sent it to one of our donors
> and to my Canadian grad students and to our social network.  It's
> wonderfully written, although hardly "beginning a badly needed
> conversation."  I t

Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR Daily | The New York Review of Books

[Carl Tollander]

Got this from an link from the Hoffman article in the Atlantic on
"reality".  Regardless of the niftiness of the paper, I think it's
interesting that somebody is using games to model how truth has come to
fare so badly in our politics.  Talks up some varieties of realism, so, hi,
Nick.

http://cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/PerceptualEvolution.pdf

If there is anything to this, my reading is that paywalls and "click here
to disable your ad blocker before you can continue reading" sorts of
activities by online media are a strong disservice to the polity and need
to come down.

This is also stimulating some thought on" lingusitic determinism" vs
"linguistic relativism" brought up by the "Arrival" movie.  Never been much
for "deep structure" linguistic theories.

Carl


On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Jochen Fromm  wrote:

> Yes, looks interesting (somehow my mail client does not show all FRIAM
> mails, for instance I don't see Nicks mails, I have only received Merles
> response?).
>
> From a complexity science viewpoint the development in the US is
> interesting, whether it will be a step back into an oligarchy or autocracy,
> or even some kind of cronyism, nepotism, nationalism, imperialism or
> fascism, because all these *-isms are like a cancer for society. There are
> all sorts of fascisms, similar to the many different forms of cancer.
>
> From a psychological perspective Mr. Trump is interesting too because he
> is obviously not a normal politician. Narcissism is mentioned frequently as
> a character trait.
> http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-
> mind-of-donald-trump/480771/
>
> As a European from a continent with a troubled past I'm worried that the
> next 4 years will not turn out well. There will be an unpleasant wakeup
> when people recognize they have been betrayed and there is no peaceful way
> back into a glorified past in a globalized world. I bet there will be some
> kind of staged event which will lead to the next war or a totalitarian
> state.
>
> -Jochen
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Merle Lefkoff 
> Date: 12/4/16 21:57 (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR
> Daily | The New York Review of Books
>
> Nick, thanks so much for sending this. I just sent it to one of our donors
> and to my Canadian grad students and to our social network.  It's
> wonderfully written, although hardly "beginning a badly needed
> conversation."  I think because of Complexity science I actually did
> imagine the future that has happened--starting about three years ago.
> We've been organizing the ECOS gathering for almost two years (put on hold
> because of the elections), and now we're organized and ready to go.  We
> need local volunteers to help with the final planning.  Let me know if you
> are interested.
>
> The Center's web site is:  emergentdiplomacy.org.  The ECOS website is:
> ecosgathering.org.
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Nick Thompson 
> wrote:
>
>> Any,
>>
>>
>>
>> This article begins a badly needed conversation about what resistance
>> must look like.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autoc
>> racy-rules-for-survival/
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
> ​Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA​
>
> Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding
> Saint Paul University
> Ottawa, Canada​
>
>
>
> merlelef...@gmail.com
> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
> skype:  merle.llfkoff2
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Handyman?

[Carl Tollander]

Hi Gil,

If I can find some time to advise, fine, but I'm mostly out of the Handyman
biz just now.

Best,
Carl


On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> Good morning Friam!
>
> I don't know if my question went through.  I also don't know if this is a
> repost.
>
> If it's turns out to be a repost feel free to move on.
>
> Basically Criter Controll came by monday about my mouse problem
>
> The news is some are coming in simply because the place needs a bit of
> TLC. Others might be coming into the walls like the kitchen wall because
> it's a fake so any imperfections are easy for them to get into.
>
> On my side I need a handyman to help out with a few things.
>
>  I don't know if anyone on this list is a bit of a handyman, or if they
> know someone that is.  Carl Tolvendor (forgive me if I have his name
> spelled wrong)  has done some help in the past.
> From what we looked at it needs at least:
>
> The walls just under a deck by the front door need patching. I have no
> clue what that's made of.
>
> The front door, and kitchen door frames sets are a problem to. We simply
> don't know if they'r so old and loved they need to replaced, or the frame
> re-done so as they fit the doors better.
>
>
> OTHER
> Their's also a bit of a issue with the kitchen sink leaking, Also water
> pressure is screwy again.  I couldn't make heads or tales of the screwy
> piping and thought that's when someone with experience in plumming should
> take a look.
>
> One of the bathroom tiles needs some TLC as well and I just know what kind
> of glue or goop to use so as to keep things from getting worse.
>
> Does anyone on the list know a handyman or two that can help out?
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] enablors vs disruptors

[Carl Tollander]

Well, there's the concrete truck and then there's the jackhammer.

On Oct 17, 2016 1:24 PM, "Marcus Daniels"  wrote:

> It depends on whether, like David, you point to liberalism as the threat
> to individual freedom and productivity, or the momentum of conservativism
> and oligarchy to constrain lives.Some (like Assange) can’t stand either
> one.   A disruptor seeks a benign sort of chaos when power can shift hands
> quickly, and repeatedly.  The people that are all used up and have limited
> skills *should* give way to those that do.   Sure they can try to elect
> someone like Trump, but that’s where sophisticated “liberal autocracy” must
> step-up to outmaneuver the reactionaries.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Nick
> Thompson
> *Sent:* Monday, October 17, 2016 12:18 PM
> *To:* friam 
> *Cc:* 'Stephen Guerin' 
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] enablors vs disruptors
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Friammers,
>
>
>
> A close friend of mine has gone to work in marketing for a Startup
> Incubator in Another City.  I have been perusing the website and I notice
> frequent use of the word “disruptors”, as if disruption was a goal in
> itself.  This puzzles me.  I have always thought of technology as
> “enabling’ and have thought of its disruptive effects as a kind of
> collateral damage that needs to be mitigated.  Now I recognize that one of
> the properties of a really good technology company is the ability to
> respond quickly to disruption, and to provide solutions and open up
> opportunities for those whose lives are disrupted.  And I realize that if I
> owned a technology company, I might want to produce disruption in order
> that I might supply “enablors” to the disrupted.  But isn’t it a case of
> industrial narcissism to MARKET oneself as a disruptor, a kind of
> “preaching to the choir”, rather than outreach to potential purchasers of
> one’s technology?  Or is my thinking “oh so 20th Century.”
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Old Santa Fe Trail Garage

[Carl Tollander]

Anything with transmissions go to A1.

On Aug 16, 2016 8:34 AM, "Pamela McCorduck"  wrote:

> I haven’t used it for a while, but a friend does, and finds them very
> competent for run-of-the-mill things.
>
> On Aug 15, 2016, at 11:24 PM, Nick Thompson 
> wrote:
>
> A
>
> Does anybody use this garage, and do you recommend it.
>
> N
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution

[Carl Tollander]

Given the name, I'd feel a bit more comfy if there were greater 
representation from biology or, gods forbid, genetics...also, no 
phenomenologists (e.g. Sabine) out there.


Appendix 4 in 
https://evolution-institute.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Final-CE-Conceptual-Framework-Mar-4-2015.pdf 
is interesting wrt concerns expressed here.  (I found myself relating to 
the McElreath comments, not that I know diddly...)


On 6/29/15 9:01 PM, glen wrote:

That's a great point.  But I suppose it all depends on who composes it.  To say 
a group like this will advocate foolishly or manipulate without admitting that 
every other group, without exception(!), advocates foolishly and manipulates, 
is to place too much burden on these particular people.  We all do our best to 
balance what we think should happen against worries that interference could go 
wrong.  (Some of us are better at that balance than others.  But that's also 
true of everyone about everything ... which makes it a useless statement.)

In the end, to be against something before it's even begun is a bit silly, I think.  
Personally, I'm neutral.  But it's interesting in the same way Lessig's May One or the 
genetic literacy project are interesting ... and manipulative.  Even more political is 
the interesting "neoreactionary" movement.  I'm even neutral about that, though 
I think I'm starting to turn a bit against it.  The trick, as we've been discussing, is 
to never flip the bit one way or the other.


On 06/29/2015 07:43 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

I am afraid I have not been following this closely enough to know the white 
hats from the black hats.  I think one of the dimensions of disagreement here 
is on the possibility of social planning.  If one thinks that the subject 
matters studied by sociologists and economists are essentially chaotic,  then 
social planning is either foolish or manipulative … like bishops telling 
parishioners to defer gratification so they, the bishops, can live opulent 
lives in the Bishop’s Palace.  As a consequence of running such a scam, the 
Vatican runs half of Rome, right?  That new society sounds like a reforming and 
a planning lot.  That’s as far as my thinking has gotten on this.  As you see, 
it’s not very far.




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[FRIAM] Quantum Criticality

[Carl Tollander]

From Phys.org, we are reminded that the Stu paper he mentioned in his 
wedtech talk has been out for a month now.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1502.06880

Some commentary about the paper on phys.org
http://phys.org/news/2015-04-quantum-criticality-life-proteins.html

Quantum Criticality is hot these days
http://phys.org/tags/quantum+criticality/

C.




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Re: [FRIAM] metaphor and talking across skill levels

[Carl Tollander]

This may throw something (light?) on the issue.

http://cheng.staff.shef.ac.uk/morality/morality.pdf

The reason I'm tossing this in may not become apparent until a ways into 
it, when mathematical "morality" notions are used to address abstraction.


From my own perspective, I swap in musician/composer for mathematician, 
but hey, I'm listening to Maria Joao Pires recordings just now.


Carl

On 3/10/15 10:36 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:

Ok Glen,

Imagine that I am standing before you holding a flat object, such as a
notebook in my left hand, flat side to you.  I hold a small object, let's
say an artgum eraser, in my right hand above and behind the notebook.  I
release the eraser.  Please give me a "plain-spoken" description of what you
would see.

Thanks,

Nick



Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ep ropella
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 9:31 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] metaphor and talking across skill levels

On 03/09/2015 05:44 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

I gather that "symmetry" is itself a metaphor, subject both to the joys

and pains thereof.

I suggest symmetry has a non-metaphorical definition.  But I admit the word
can be successfully _abused_.  ;-)


I never could find a plain spoken way to describe "above and below the

plane of the molecule" without resort to the very terms I was trying to
explain, until I thought of restaurant staff stacking six sided tables on
top of one another to facilitate cleaning.  Only then did the three
dimensionality of traditional "ring diagrams" make any sense to me.

But, see, _my_ problem is that I don't regard the concept "above and below
the plane of the molecule" to be science.  That's ideological hoo-ha
bouncing around in someone's mind.  The science is what's done with the
hands (and feet, nose, etc.).  There is no plain spoken way to describe
concepts.  There are only plain spoken ways to describe _things_ ... real
things that you can touch and leave a bruise when someone throws it at you.

To me, metaphor doesn't seem fundamental to science because science is about
what you _do_, not what you think.  It's way more scientific to talk about
stacking tables than it is to talk about "above and below the molecule".

--
glen e. p. ropella, 971-255-2847, http://tempusdictum.com


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Re: [FRIAM] NM economy and irony

[Carl Tollander]

Bit early for cherry blossoms.

On 2/18/15 2:26 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:
At a quiet little lunch a few weeks ago with the ED of Creative Santa 
Fe, I learned that many of the powers that be are putting resources 
into turning Santa Fe into a mini Silicon Valley.  Put that in your 
pipe and smoke it!


On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Gillian Densmore 
mailto:gil.densm...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Being as age and economics is on the FRIAM
I thought some of the hippies in the group might be amused.

I cam across these articles while doing research for a project,
about getting NM some vitality.


Very quietly NM is turning to...Pot?
According to both Florida State Biz Journal and KOB News.
NM Legislatures are have been quietly working on some way to make
of all things pot as in weed  legal in NM fully. As part of a
economic stimulus strategy.

Personally I'm neutral on the pot issue, though can see the appeal
for textiles as part of a blend as its supposedly stronger than
cotton
Full articles

http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/blog/morning-edition/2014/12/nm-legislators-consider-legalizing-pot-to-raise.html

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s3660709.shtml#.VKFD3wAA




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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
me...@emergentdiplomacy.org 
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merlelefkoff



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