Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Dan wrote: At 12:01 AM -0400 4/29/2010, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: Oh really? Then how come i am able to install tiger on multiple computers without activation or licence errors? Not sure to what exactly you're commenting. Apple chooses to trust its customers, and not employ the draconian measures that other vendors use. So there is no activation mechanism in the standard Mac OS or Mac OS X. Honor system. Get it? rant The way you've worded your post sounds to me like you're implying that because there is no activation mechanism that you can do whatever you want with the product. I hope that wasn't your intent. My impression is that most Mac users are honest, etc. I also think that since Apple still is a minority player in the the PC world, the more exposure the better for the platform. After all, microsquish users who are exposed to OSX, (providing that they have a couple of brain cells to rub together), quickly discover that there are far less in the way of hoops to pass through in order to get work done on our machines. G'day! JT Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4bd99d0877c59235be7st06duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
At 9:56 AM -0500 4/29/2010, James Therrault wrote: On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Dan wrote: At 12:01 AM -0400 4/29/2010, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: Oh really? Then how come i am able to install tiger on multiple computers without activation or licence errors? Not sure to what exactly you're commenting. Apple chooses to trust its customers, and not employ the draconian measures that other vendors use. So there is no activation mechanism in the standard Mac OS or Mac OS X. Honor system. Get it? rant The way you've worded your post sounds to me like you're implying that because there is no activation mechanism that you can do whatever you want with the product. I hope that wasn't your intent. My impression is that most Mac users are honest, etc. I also think that since Apple still is a minority player in the the PC world, the more exposure the better for the platform. After all, microsquish users who are exposed to OSX, (providing that they have a couple of brain cells to rub together), quickly discover that there are far less in the way of hoops to pass through in order to get work done on our machines. Ok. That is, perhaps maybe heh, a justification for Apple not running around suing customers that abuse the OS X license agreement. But it still doesn't justify piracy from the user's POV. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Apr 29, 2010, at 10:32 AM, Dan wrote: At 9:56 AM -0500 4/29/2010, James Therrault wrote: On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Dan wrote: At 12:01 AM -0400 4/29/2010, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: Oh really? Then how come i am able to install tiger on multiple computers without activation or licence errors? Not sure to what exactly you're commenting. Apple chooses to trust its customers, and not employ the draconian measures that other vendors use. So there is no activation mechanism in the standard Mac OS or Mac OS X. Honor system. Get it? rant The way you've worded your post sounds to me like you're implying that because there is no activation mechanism that you can do whatever you want with the product. I hope that wasn't your intent. My impression is that most Mac users are honest, etc. I also think that since Apple still is a minority player in the the PC world, the more exposure the better for the platform. After all, microsquish users who are exposed to OSX, (providing that they have a couple of brain cells to rub together), quickly discover that there are far less in the way of hoops to pass through in order to get work done on our machines. Ok. That is, perhaps maybe heh, a justification for Apple not running around suing customers that abuse the OS X license agreement. But it still doesn't justify piracy from the user's POV. Absolutely! As one who holds some intellectual property, I agree completely. I was just rationalizing from Apple's perspective. JT Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4bd9a8da6da3426d975st02duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: slow flash drive
On Apr 28, 2010, at 6:57 PM, JOHN CARMONNE wrote: did you format it? Yes they all come FAT 32 so for a Mac it needs to be formated. I just never had one so slow, I thought they're all the same in that respect. Actually no they don't. OS X reads/writes FAT32 devices just fine, and the format will make no difference in how fast it works. The only two reasins to format it HFS are: 1) Keep nosy PC users from seeing what's on your device, maybe. 2) Setting one up as a bootable device, which probably also requires re-partitioning them. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: slow flash drive
The only two reasins to format it HFS are: 1) Keep nosy PC users from seeing what's on your device, maybe. 2) Setting one up as a bootable device, which probably also requires re-partitioning them. I have problems with FAT 32 flash drives showing Mac files. I once copied an important folder of Mac files to one and upon arrival in Carson City NV I was only able to see PC icons and could not open the files so I learned the hard way to stay away from all thing PC. But that's just me. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my G3 iMac 10.4.11 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: File Recovery
On Apr 28, 1:02 pm, Baha Ata baha...@gmail.com wrote: BUT NEVER WRITE ANYTHING ON THE DISCS that you try to rescue and NEVER USE THEM. Data rescue take data from them and write another disc, no change on old drive... That's the best way. I'm running 10.4.11 on a Mini G4. Hmm. Since I inadvertently cloned from a smaller drive (d1) to a larger drive, thus erasing most of what was on the larger drive (d2) I'm suddenly thinking that any recovery will require a third drive (d3) of equal size to the d2. Is that right? or will Disk Recovery buffer recovered files (from d2) and progressively write back to d2? Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: slow flash drive
On Apr 28, 2010, at 8:18 PM, iJohn wrote: It's easy enough to get a ballpark guess figure these days with Win 7 by just moving files and asking for details. I don't know how to guess at transfer speeds in OS X though ... except by copying a file and measuring the time by watching the clock. Your computer is VASTLY better at watching the clock. The built-in (at least in bash, if your shell is csh it's different) cammand 'time' will tell you how long any unix command or script takes to execute. In our case I want to time copying a file from one place to another, from my hard drive to my thumb drive time cp filename on one drive filename on another drive You can move several known files, or use a file I made a long time ago for some network throughput testing I had to do: http://dbdev2.pharmacy.arizona.edu/miscjunk/test1mb.txt This is a 1024 KB random text file. Save it, you can concatenate however many copies that you want to make a sizeable file. for example, I did: Here's my script, saved as speed.sh: (This is quickdirty with NO error correction whatsoever. I used the unix command cat to concatenate test1mb.txt a bunch of times to make a 50 mb file.) This presumes that test50mb.txt is in the current directory, and Untitled 1 is the name that shows up on the desktop for the destination. Someone more ambitious than I could package this into a more usable program. #!/bin/bash time cp test50mb.txt /Volumes/Untitled\ 1/test50mb.txt Untitled 1 is how my Cruzer 2GB stick shows up on my system right now. Don't forget to make it executable after writing it: dbdev2:Desktop johnson$ chmod u+x speed.sh Then I invoked it: dbdev2:Desktop johnson$ ./speed.sh real0m6.729s user0m0.001s sys 0m0.156s Here we're only interested in the 'real' value. 50 mb/ 6.729 seconds = 7.43 MB/sec Voila! -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: File Recovery
On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Cliff Rediger wrote: I'm running 10.4.11 on a Mini G4. Hmm. Since I inadvertently cloned from a smaller drive (d1) to a larger drive, thus erasing most of what was on the larger drive (d2) I'm suddenly thinking that any recovery will require a third drive (d3) of equal size to the d2. Is that right? or will Disk Recovery buffer recovered files (from d2) and progressively write back to d2? As a rule of thumb always ALWAYS ALWAYS do data recovery to a clean drive. Never EVER write to your problem drive; write-protect it in hardware if possible. If these files are worth it (irreplaceable and/or will cost a great deal to re-create) consider a data recovery service like Drive Savers. They're pricey, but they can probably get the data back. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: slow flash drive
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: dd if=/dev/zero bs=1024 count=1048576 of=/Volumes/MyUSBstick/gigabyte.file I went with Dan's method ... it just seemed easier. Can't say why though. ;-) For my 2008 white MacBook 500GB Hitatchi hard drive: write: 37.7 MiB/sec read: 41.9 MiB/sec For my USB attached 16GB Diesel flash drive: write: 14.3 MiB/sec read: 34.7 MiB/sec FWIW both are formatted as HFS+. I'm sort of surprised that my MB's hard drive isn't a little faster, but shrug. Sometime I should pull it and run HDTune (or such) against it on my WIn 7 desktop to see if it's the drive or ... whatever. The flash drive results also seem about right. Forgot to mention that one of the other characteristics of current flash memory is that reading is often much faster than writing. (In this case apparently over 2x as fast to read versus write). -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: slow flash drive
FWIW, since I wanted to move an AVI file from my MacBook to one of my desktop hard drives, I measured the transfer speeds of the old 1GB Verbatim flash drive I used to move the file. (Would that be circa 2005?? I don't remember when 1GB was the current cheap flash capacity). write: 5.2 MiB/sec read: 12.2 MiB/sec As I said, transfer rates change with time as well as price. :-) shrug They still beat the heck out of a 1.44 MB floppy diskette, no? -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: slow flash drive
At 4:03 PM -0400 4/29/2010, iJohn wrote: On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: dd if=/dev/zero bs=1024 count=1048576 of=/Volumes/MyUSBstick/gigabyte.file I went with Dan's method ... it just seemed easier. Can't say why though. ;-) For my 2008 white MacBook 500GB Hitatchi hard drive: write: 37.7 MiB/sec read: 41.9 MiB/sec For my USB attached 16GB Diesel flash drive: write: 14.3 MiB/sec read: 34.7 MiB/sec FWIW both are formatted as HFS+. I'm sort of surprised that my MB's hard drive isn't a little faster This method mostly defeats caching - especially the big buffers on the HDs. So it's a fairly pure way of seeing bus and mechanism performance. IN the real world, where you're moving smaller pieces of data and intermixing reads and writes, the system (memory cache, bus, drive cache, and mechanism) will perform better overall. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: slow flash drive
At 4:43 PM -0400 4/29/2010, iJohn wrote: FWIW, since I wanted to move an AVI file from my MacBook to one of my desktop hard drives, I measured the transfer speeds of the old 1GB Verbatim flash drive I used to move the file. (Would that be circa 2005?? I don't remember when 1GB was the current cheap flash capacity). write: 5.2 MiB/sec read: 12.2 MiB/sec As I said, transfer rates change with time as well as price. :-) Wow. Quite a dramatic difference! They still beat the heck out of a 1.44 MB floppy diskette, no? I miss our paper tape reader/punch. As an adjunct to our ASR33, it ran at 110 baud. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: slow flash drive
On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:31 PM, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote: Hi a\All I'm moving a 1.25 GB file from one machine to another and this thing ... took about 30 mins., I should have done the arithmetic long before this, but unless you're way off on your numbers. 1.25 GB in 1800 seconds is only 0.71 MiB/sec. Cheap flash would be slow but I wouldn't expect it to be THAT slow. You should be getting at least single digit MB/sec transfers. (Shouldn't he?) Perhaps you could test read/write speeds using either Dan or Bruce's suggestions? I mean for pity's sake, that's less than 5.7 Mbits/sec. The USB 1.1 spec at 12 Mbits/sec would be faster than that. -irrationally long winded john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
I know Apple decided to trust it's users, but the thing is, If they only provide one license when you buy a DVD (let's say it's OS X SL), why does it still allow you to install even though the license was only supposed to be used once? -- Sent from my Power mac G4 Sawtooth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
Mark Sokolovsky wrote: I know Apple decided to trust it's users, but the thing is, If they only provide one license when you buy a DVD (let's say it's OS X SL), why does it still allow you to install even though the license was only supposed to be used once? Pray tell me how in God's name you're going to add an installation counter to a pressed read-only CD/DVD? Ted -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Apr 29, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: I know Apple decided to trust it's users, but the thing is, If they only provide one license when you buy a DVD (let's say it's OS X SL), why does it still allow you to install even though the license was only supposed to be used once? -- Sent from my Power mac G4 Sawtooth. Because some people like my Dr will happily pay for what they get and buy five for the home and another five for the office. Gee they practically gave away Snow Leopard (not much there but darn cheap). Keep in mind when you register it the info goes in the data base as does all that iTunes stuff they say don't worry about. One day all this info gathering will pay off for Apple. I'm always careful to only use the name I originally had on any subsequent installs of any Mac software, and it's on a lot of my machines. I pity the PC owners who are carded on every turn and have to cough up to the Gates machine. JOHN CARMONNE Yorba Linda USA From TiBook 800 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:22 PM, Ted Treen wrote: Mark Sokolovsky wrote: I know Apple decided to trust it's users, but the thing is, If they only provide one license when you buy a DVD (let's say it's OS X SL), why does it still allow you to install even though the license was only supposed to be used once? Pray tell me how in God's name you're going to add an installation counter to a pressed read-only CD/DVD? Windbloze does it and anything you install on a PC normally will try to shake you down. JOHN CARMONNE Yorba Linda USA From TiBook 800 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:32 PM, JOHN CARMONNE wrote: Pray tell me how in God's name you're going to add an installation counter to a pressed read-only CD/DVD? Windbloze does it and anything you install on a PC normally will try to shake you down. No, Windows does NOT do this. There's a serial number that works with the installer, and if you NEVER connect to the internet, at least with XP and lower, you're A-OK. However, Windows phones home with the info and serial number when you connect to the internet. Windows Vista and newer require you to either authenticate via the internet or via phone or youe Windows system turns into a pumpkin. OS X disks do not contain ANY sort of serialization, a fact that can be confirmed if you have access to two retail install disks of the same OS: they're identical. Again. Apple does not require serialization of their OS...remember, you're legally only allowed to run it on a Mac. Remember: http://tinyurl.com/26rd5rg -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
--- On Thu, 4/29/10, JOHN CARMONNE carmo...@aol.com wrote: Windbloze does it and anything you install on a PC normally will try to shake you down. In the Windows case you HAVE to register with MS after an initial period since the install. The difference between MS and Apple is MS makes its money exclusively from the s/w, whereas Apple makes it's money by selling you a system. Presumably they make some money from retail OS upgrades, but as the hardware requirements increase with each release, they effectively make the older hardware obsolete, encouraging us to buy a new system. I just pre-ordered a 3G iPad and find it annoying that I HAVE to have Leopard to use it with a Mac (I'm currently still using Tiger) but I can use it with Windows XP if I want. This clearly illustrates Apples marketing strategy! It may backfire. I already have a WinXP Core 2 Duo system that I use for music production only, doing everything else on PPC systems because I cant afford a Mac Pro :-( Maybe it will be my iPad home now too? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:53 PM, John Niven wrote: I just pre-ordered a 3G iPad and find it annoying that I HAVE to have Leopard to use it with a Mac (I'm currently still using Tiger) but I can use it with Windows XP if I want. This clearly illustrates Apples marketing strategy! It does nothing of the sort. The differences 'under the hood' between 10.4 and 10.5 are HUGE. It would pretty much require Apple writing *three* iPad support systems (one for Windows, one for 10.5/10.6 and one for 10.4) to include 10.4 (which is exceedingly long in the tooth as OS revs go) compatibility. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: However, Windows phones home with the info and serial number when you connect to the internet. Yes, when you authenticate. If you don't authenticate then after some period (30 days?? for Win 7??) then as you say, it turns into a pumpkin. And admittedly it'll probably be a damn nuisance to use before that by nagging you to authenticate. OS X disks do not contain ANY sort of serialization, a fact that can be confirmed if you have access to two retail install disks of the same OS: they're identical. My understanding is that the same thing is true for Windows 7 DVDs. You get the same DVD whatever version you buy. Which software is installed and enabled from the DVD depends on what serial number you enter. (What you get before you enter a serial number I have no idea. Who has the patience to waste time trying to find out?) Remember: http://tinyurl.com/26rd5rg The thing that I never see people talk about is that everything Microsoft does by way of authentication is neither free nor a one-time expense. They continually pay to support their authentication function. Obviously there is the cost of keeping the authentication servers running and paying for the people who answer the authentication line phones. (Though last time I did this that also was automated). They also pay to develop all this crap and to constantly tweak and tune it because it's so damn annoying to their customers. And of course it has to always be tested and tested and tested again. Tangible and intangible, there are a lot of non-trivial costs to keeping the whole mess up and running. Microsoft must have decided ... to the extent any company can make a decision about a way of doing business that has so much history behind it ... that the benefit is worth the cost. Apple doesn't have to. They just sell the discs and don't waste money on tracking how those discs get used. It's a big PITA and distraction that Apple is not burdened with. Looking at Apple's growth I believe that this decision hasn't hurt their profitability in any way. If the folks at Apple ever change their mind about this, then you'll see them do something to control over how many different machines a single copy of OS X can be installed on. Maybe they'll go the MS route or maybe something completely different. But they'll change if they think it's costing them serious money if they don't change. Apple doesn't trust or not trust their customers. We're not on some fantasy honor system ... though I infer enough people who buy OS X discs have been honorable enough. It's just not worth that much to Apple to be annoying PITAes about the OS X installs. And I thank deity. for that!! -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Apr 29, 2010, at 4:45 PM, iJohn wrote: The thing that I never see people talk about is that everything Microsoft does by way of authentication is neither free nor a one-time expense. They continually pay to support their authentication function. Obviously there is the cost of keeping the authentication servers running and paying for the people who answer the authentication line phones. (Though last time I did this that also was automated). They also pay to develop all this crap and to constantly tweak and tune it because it's so damn annoying to their customers. And of course it has to always be tested and tested and tested again. Actually, not so much. I'd wager 90-95% of Microsoft OS sales are directly to OEM's. The average user, turning on their Dell for the first time is walked through connecting to the internet, and authentication happens then, with little or no interaction with the user. People buying upgrades and folks setting up a handful of DIY boxes for their business or something run into these hassles, but frankly, these people are small fry, and MS doesn't really give a crap about them. MS wants to keep Dell, HP and Lenovo happy. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
This is not true. The only thing that is different about the distribution of Windows 7 from XP and Vista is that the DVDs contain both the 32-bit and the x64 version of code. There are still individual discs for Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise. From: iJohn zjboyguard-ggro...@yahoo.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, April 29, 2010 7:45:13 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc??? On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: However, Windows phones home with the info and serial number when you connect to the internet. Yes, when you authenticate. If you don't authenticate then after some period (30 days?? for Win 7??) then as you say, it turns into a pumpkin. And admittedly it'll probably be a damn nuisance to use before that by nagging you to authenticate. OS X disks do not contain ANY sort of serialization, a fact that can be confirmed if you have access to two retail install disks of the same OS: they're identical. My understanding is that the same thing is true for Windows 7 DVDs. You get the same DVD whatever version you buy. Which software is installed and enabled from the DVD depends on what serial number you enter. (What you get before you enter a serial number I have no idea. Who has the patience to waste time trying to find out?) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: People buying upgrades and folks setting up a handful of DIY boxes for their business or something run into these hassles, but frankly, these people are small fry, and MS doesn't really give a crap about them. Actually, I also believe not so much but from a different perspective. :-) I have limited experience with PC notebooks. In particular I don't know how Microsoft does Windows 7 notebook (re)installs. The last PC laptop I reinstalled XP on (using the media that came with it) I don't believe even bothered to ask me to authenticate. At the very least the install media appeared to just know that the install was to an HP notebook, hence the Windows tax had been paid, so there was no need to bother about asking for a license key. (The key was there on the sticker on the laptop if needed. But I'm pretty sure I never had to enter it). If the vast majority of Windows installs were all the PC world equivalent of reinstalling the version of OS X that came with a MacBook then I doubt MS would bother with the hoops. But Windows folk still have to dance through those hoops so I infer that MS thinks it's financially worth it to them to keep polishing them. I'll grant you that individual home user upgraders, DIY boxes, and/or small businesses are probably not as big of a concern for MS. But if you're going down authentication avenue you can't do it in pieces. Aside from special cases such as notebooks with special install media, it's all installs or nothing, no? Probably MS's main concern is preventing an entire IT installation from (re)using a pirated install key. But there's also the so-called BRICs ... Brasil, Russia, India, China and such. The thought/hope of turning even a fraction of the Windows piracy in those countries into actual revenue must be, uh, an exciting thought for the MS accountants. Microsoft appears to me to be obsessed with two conflicting goals: to limit Windows installs to one machine per paid license and to not annoy their customers unless said customers are from MS's perspective trying to steal from MS. It's got to be a lot of (costly?) work on their end. And I believe they wouldn't bother with it unless they thought the company benefited. Which is not the same thing as saying the company DOES benefit from it. I'm only saying I think MS has convinced itself that it's worth doing. And I think when Apple does that calculation they must be getting a different answer. -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Albert Carter slvrmoonti...@yahoo.com wrote: This is not true. The only thing that is different about the distribution of Windows 7 from XP and Vista is that the DVDs contain both the 32-bit and the x64 version of code. There are still individual discs for Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise. Really? Then how does the MS Anytime Upgrade work? Say I wanted to take my version of Home Premium to the Ultimate of Foolishness. Supposedly I go online and purchase a license for Ultimate, then enter the new license key, and poof I'm upgraded. You may think they're going to download all the changes to the OS via the Internet, but that is not my understanding of how it works. I have no way to test this personally though since there is no way in heck I'd ever upgrade my flavor of Win 7. But you were also indirectly correct in pointing out an error I made. Actually my retail copy of Windows 7 Home Premium upgrade has two DVDs. One DVD is for the 32-bit flavor and the other is for the 64-bit. My bad. -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Unique database?
Here's what I'm looking for: a program that will go fetch all the information on an audio CD and then presents them in a simple text format that I can copy and paste...just like iTunes does it. But that only shows the name of the cd, title, year of publication. I want to be able to say, yes, I have that CD and can confirm if a particular song is on a particular CD. Eventually, this will all be placed in a database. So next time I search for: Jimi Hendrix, I will get a list of all the CDs in the database. Or, if I search for the name of a song, it will pull up the CD, artists, etc. The second part is the harder one, I know and that's why you're reading this and now thinking..hmm. Good, that's a start. Thanks. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: File Recovery
On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Cliff Rediger wrote: I'm suddenly thinking that any recovery will require a third drive (d3) of equal size to the d2. On Apr 29, 10:09 am, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: As a rule of thumb always ALWAYS ALWAYS do data recovery to a clean drive. If these files are worth it (irreplaceable and/or will cost a great deal to re-create) consider a data recovery service like Drive Savers. Data Recovery provides a demo mode which allows one to scan for files and download one recovered file. This scan reveals nothing on the drive other than the cloned files. My SuperDuper settings call for smart update which mimics the complete backup option so all files not on the original drive must have been erased, and thoroughly. Alas, I believe I'm done. Fortunately, it's not too serious. Any further comments are appreciated. Thanks for all the input. Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: File Recovery
On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Cliff Rediger wrote: I'm suddenly thinking that any recovery will require a third drive (d3) of equal size to the d2. On Apr 29, 10:09 am, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: As a rule of thumb always ALWAYS ALWAYS do data recovery to a clean drive. If these files are worth it (irreplaceable and/or will cost a great deal to re-create) consider a data recovery service like Drive Savers. Data Recovery provides a demo mode which allows one to scan for files and download one recovered file. This scan reveals nothing on the drive other than the cloned files. My SuperDuper settings call for smart update which mimics the complete backup option so all files not on the original drive must have been erased, and thoroughly. Alas, I believe I'm done. Fortunately, it's not too serious. Any further comments are appreciated. Thanks for all the input. Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: File Recovery
On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Cliff Rediger wrote: I'm suddenly thinking that any recovery will require a third drive (d3) of equal size to the d2. On Apr 29, 10:09 am, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: As a rule of thumb always ALWAYS ALWAYS do data recovery to a clean drive. If these files are worth it (irreplaceable and/or will cost a great deal to re-create) consider a data recovery service like Drive Savers. Data Rescue provides a demo mode which allows one to scan for files and download one recovered file. This scan reveals nothing on the drive other than the cloned files. My SuperDuper settings call for smart update which mimics the complete backup option so all files not on the original drive must have been erased, and thoroughly. Alas, I believe I'm done. Fortunately, it's not too serious. Any further comments are appreciated. Thanks for all the input. Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
{Manager Comment] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
[ I am top-posting because of the length of the following Off-Topic message. ] It appears that this thread has just about run its course. Discussions about PC notebooks, or most other laptops, installations of Windows 7, whatever version, authentication by Microsoft, etc., etc., are irrelevant to the OP's inquiry, and way Off-Topic for this Group. Unless I can be convinced otherwise, I hereby declare this thread CLOSED. Please refrain from posting further ON-GROUP comments, and convey any more thoughts only to me by direct private messages. Your cooperation will be appreciated. Fabian Fang LEM G-Group Manager On Apr 29, 2010, at 6:13 PM, iJohn wrote: On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: People buying upgrades and folks setting up a handful of DIY boxes for their business or something run into these hassles, but frankly, these people are small fry, and MS doesn't really give a crap about them. Actually, I also believe not so much but from a different perspective. :-) I have limited experience with PC notebooks. In particular I don't know how Microsoft does Windows 7 notebook (re)installs. The last PC laptop I reinstalled XP on (using the media that came with it) I don't believe even bothered to ask me to authenticate. At the very least the install media appeared to just know that the install was to an HP notebook, hence the Windows tax had been paid, so there was no need to bother about asking for a license key. (The key was there on the sticker on the laptop if needed. But I'm pretty sure I never had to enter it). If the vast majority of Windows installs were all the PC world equivalent of reinstalling the version of OS X that came with a MacBook then I doubt MS would bother with the hoops. But Windows folk still have to dance through those hoops so I infer that MS thinks it's financially worth it to them to keep polishing them. I'll grant you that individual home user upgraders, DIY boxes, and/or small businesses are probably not as big of a concern for MS. But if you're going down authentication avenue you can't do it in pieces. Aside from special cases such as notebooks with special install media, it's all installs or nothing, no? Probably MS's main concern is preventing an entire IT installation from (re)using a pirated install key. But there's also the so-called BRICs ... Brasil, Russia, India, China and such. The thought/hope of turning even a fraction of the Windows piracy in those countries into actual revenue must be, uh, an exciting thought for the MS accountants. Microsoft appears to me to be obsessed with two conflicting goals: to limit Windows installs to one machine per paid license and to not annoy their customers unless said customers are from MS's perspective trying to steal from MS. It's got to be a lot of (costly?) work on their end. And I believe they wouldn't bother with it unless they thought the company benefited. Which is not the same thing as saying the company DOES benefit from it. I'm only saying I think MS has convinced itself that it's worth doing. And I think when Apple does that calculation they must be getting a different answer. -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Right group for questions about exporting from G4 QS to a Macbook SL
On Mar 9, 7:53 am, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Mar 8, 2010, at 2:44 PM, dorayme wrote: Thanks *very much* for this, just what I wanted to know! Good, one less thing to worry about then. Also, if your needs for Windows programs don't include gaming-type performance, consider getting the open source VirtualBox instead of one of the commercial VM systems. http://www.virtualbox.org/ I'm using it at home and it's quite good. I began using it today. It takes only about a quarter of a 20 LCD widescreen? Is there some way to make it bigger? Is this limitation also something that Fusion and Parallels have? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Tracing hot keys
Mini G4 10.4.11 I use a screen capture software that I access with the hot keys command-shift-4 which gives me a little circle with cross hairs and and drag a section and it snaps a jpg to the desktop. I seem to recall that I loaded this app because it permits selection of the image format whereas Grab limits one to tiff files. Anyway, for the life of me I cannot remember or locate this app (even though it works). Is there a way to trace the hot keys to the app. ? thanks Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: File Recovery
On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:09 PM, Cliff Rediger wrote: Data Rescue provides a demo mode which allows one to scan for files and download one recovered file. This scan reveals nothing on the drive other than the cloned files. My SuperDuper settings call for smart update which mimics the complete backup option so all files not on the original drive must have been erased, and thoroughly. I don't think your hypothesis is correct. I've used both SuperDuper and Data Rescue. For SuperDuper to have zeroed a 1TB HD before smart updating it would have taken at least an extra hour, perhaps even two. I don't believe that SuperDuper would have taken the time to zero all data on the HD unless you specified this in a preference beforehand. Also, to correctly use Data Rescue you'd need access to another clean HD. While you may be able to compile a list of recoverable files using a smaller HD, to actually recover the files you'd need another HD at least large enough to hold the recovered data, so in your case, I believe you said the data was about 700GB, and the mistakenly cloned HD was 100GB, so that means you should have about 600GB that could possibly be recovered. If you used this HD to boot from and for internet, it's likely you ruined a fair proportion of that 600GB, so it could be much, much smaller. In my experience, Data Rescue is very thorough, and ALWAYS finds old files unless the HD has be reformatted or zeroed. Even zeroed HDs can be recovered by professional data recovery centers, but this is VERY expensive. I'd think this is a lesson-learned experience for you, BUT I still think there SHOULD be MANY recoverable files using Data Rescue UNLESS the HD was zeroed, and zeroing a 1TB HD is a fairly long process that's not normally part of a SuperDuper backup. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Tracing hot keys
Anyway, for the life of me I cannot remember or locate this app (even though it works). If the app is in the Dock, you can command-click on it and it opens a Finder window showing you where it is ... at least under Leopard 10.5.8. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Tracing hot keys
On Apr 29, 2010, at 11:28 PM, Cliff Rediger wrote: Anyway, for the life of me I cannot remember or locate this app (even though it works). Is there a way to trace the hot keys to the app. ? It is one of a set of built in to the OS hot keys that executes code and I don't think that there is an application icon that you can find for them. I could be wrong and perhaps some more experienced people can give you the right answer. dan_A = http://web.mac.com/danauerbach = -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
