Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
On Jun 9, 2010, at 11:28 PM, Bill Christensen wrote: If you can get 4gigs of RAM in a sawtooth (which officially has a max capacity of 2 gigs), I want to know how! I'm not certain if this article will enable 4GB RAM for you, but I suspect it will, if this is possible? Instead of reducing the memory, as the title of this article references, you'd be increasing it instead: http://developer.apple.com/legacy/mac/library/qa/qa2001/qa1099.html Note about RAM module sizes. Sizes are in hex: 1000 = 256mb 2000 = 512mb 4000 = 1gb ... and so forth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
Whether a computer is obselete really depends on what you want to do with the computer. I mean the space shuttle runs of a i386. I use mine primarily as my digital darkroom for photography and it works perfectly for what I use it for. Furthermore various open source software will likely extend their lifespan even further. I have also noticed Apple users tend to be in my experience people more concerned with whether there computer gets the job done instead of just having the newest hardware for the sake of bragging rights. On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 3:17 AM, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Jun 9, 2010, at 11:28 PM, Bill Christensen wrote: If you can get 4gigs of RAM in a sawtooth (which officially has a max capacity of 2 gigs), I want to know how! I'm not certain if this article will enable 4GB RAM for you, but I suspect it will, if this is possible? Instead of reducing the memory, as the title of this article references, you'd be increasing it instead: http://developer.apple.com/legacy/mac/library/qa/qa2001/qa1099.html Note about RAM module sizes. Sizes are in hex: 1000 = 256mb 2000 = 512mb 4000 = 1gb ... and so forth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
4 1GB So-dimms LOW PROFILE from a dell poweredge 2500 server. They must be low profile or they won't work. Be prepared to re-install the OS. Insert the RAM, start up and press and hold COMMAND+OPTION+P+R. There was a combined OF command, but i forgot what it was. It was after a while of learning commands on OF. Also, my version of firmware is from a Power Mac G5 early 2003. Since the G4 and G5 are similar, the firmware works too. The reason why the machine cannot detect the 4GB of RAM is because of the firmware. Apple didn't really think that 4Gb of RAM would be needed back then, so it limited the amount of RAM to 2GB. I downloaded the PM G5 early 2003 firmware update, tricked the installer into thinking i had a G5 processor, restarted, pressed and held COMMAND+OPTION+P+R, shut down, inserted the 4GB of RAM, and it worked after a Leopard re-install. Since the firmware is for a G5, the system thinks it's a G5, when in reality it's a G4 (don't worry, it'll show up as a G4 on the about this mac window! =) ) since the firmware is designed for a G5 that is able to handle 8GB of RAM, (Don't try 8Gb, it will be an epic fail) It can see the 4GB of RAM and is able to use it. The open firmware command was an alternative i made just in case i forgot, but the way i explained it here works too. Btw, be prepared for troubleshooting. This took me 47 days to get to work. this can also be done through micro-soldering a G5 OF chip onto a sawtooth, but I don't want to take my chances and ruin my companion that's been happy with me for 11 years. -- Sent from my Power mac G4 Sawtooth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
First of all G4 Power Macs do not take SO-DIMMs and neither do Dell Servers. SO-DIMMs are for Laptops and Tray Loading G3 iMacs. Secondly I doubt a PowerMac G4 would except a G5 Firmware the board wouldn't allow it the structure is completely different. From: Mark Sokolovsky coolmar...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 2:45:13 AM Subject: Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete? 4 1GB So-dimms LOW PROFILE from a dell poweredge 2500 server. They must be low profile or they won't work. Be prepared to re-install the OS. Insert the RAM, start up and press and hold COMMAND+OPTION+P+R. There was a combined OF command, but i forgot what it was. It was after a while of learning commands on OF. Also, my version of firmware is from a Power Mac G5 early 2003. Since the G4 and G5 are similar, the firmware works too. The reason why the machine cannot detect the 4GB of RAM is because of the firmware. Apple didn't really think that 4Gb of RAM would be needed back then, so it limited the amount of RAM to 2GB. I downloaded the PM G5 early 2003 firmware update, tricked the installer into thinking i had a G5 processor, restarted, pressed and held COMMAND+OPTION+P+R, shut down, inserted the 4GB of RAM, and it worked after a Leopard re-install. Since the firmware is for a G5, the system thinks it's a G5, when in reality it's a G4 (don't worry, it'll show up as a G4 on the about this mac window! =) ) since the firmware is designed for a G5 that is able to handle 8GB of RAM, (Don't try 8Gb, it will be an epic fail) It can see the 4GB of RAM and is able to use it. The open firmware command was an alternative i made just in case i forgot, but the way i explained it here works too. Btw, be prepared for troubleshooting. This took me 47 days to get to work. this can also be done through micro-soldering a G5 OF chip onto a sawtooth, but I don't want to take my chances and ruin my companion that's been happy with me for 11 years. -- Sent from my Power mac G4 Sawtooth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
That method does not work, because this was one of the ways I tried out, and it showed up as 1Gb instead of 4Gb of ram, so i quickly ditched the resort. -- Sent from my Power mac G4 Sawtooth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
On Jun 10, 2010, at 5:00 AM, Albert Carter wrote: First of all G4 Power Macs do not take SO-DIMMs and neither do Dell Servers. SO-DIMMs are for Laptops and Tray Loading G3 iMacs. Secondly I doubt a PowerMac G4 would except a G5 Firmware the board wouldn't allow it the structure is completely different. Also Q is an emulator not a virtual machine. It's physically impossible for an emulator to run as fast as a native OS, so no way in hell does he have 10.6 running on that magical sawtooth, certainly not as well as 10.5 does. I've used Q; just running MS DOS it was slow, Win98 was glacial. 20+ minutes to boot up, stuff like that. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
I agree! Running 10.6.3 in Q? No chance! Pls post some screenshots! On Jun 10, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jun 10, 2010, at 5:00 AM, Albert Carter wrote: First of all G4 Power Macs do not take SO-DIMMs and neither do Dell Servers. SO-DIMMs are for Laptops and Tray Loading G3 iMacs. Secondly I doubt a PowerMac G4 would except a G5 Firmware the board wouldn't allow it the structure is completely different. Also Q is an emulator not a virtual machine. It's physically impossible for an emulator to run as fast as a native OS, so no way in hell does he have 10.6 running on that magical sawtooth, certainly not as well as 10.5 does. I've used Q; just running MS DOS it was slow, Win98 was glacial. 20 + minutes to boot up, stuff like that. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/ group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Safari 4.1 Problem
On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: In my opinion an AR (archive reinstall) isn't the most efficient way to solve a System that won't boot. Assuming the System won't safe boot, in my opinion, the most efficient way is to boot from an alternate source such as an external HD, or another Mac using Target Disk mode to mount the HD on the problem Mac, and then reinstall the latest Combo Update targeting the unbootable System. This requires having either an external bootable OS X drive laying about, or another PPC Mac I can take out of service to do this. Having neither, I opted for the AR. It takes longer, but I can ignore it 99% of the time. I know that this mac has always been 100% stock, so the AR is the way to go. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: HD partition not seen
On Jun 10, 1:23 pm, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:12 PM, Cliff Rediger wrote: This trip, both partition show up on the desk top but only partition #2 shows up in the Finder Window (there in the left column) This is nothing, you can drag and drop the icon of the partition into the Finder sidebar. Thanks for the quick response Kris. The Finder thing worked out as you suggest Partition #1 also does not show up in the StartUp volume Systems Pref window so I cannot boot from it. Probably the HD isn't formatted as Apple Partition Scheme? If you're using this on an Intel Mac, I'm not using Intel and DU indicates the drive is Apple Partition Mapped. It did require minor repair, which I did DU also indicates the P#1 is bootable. However, it still does not show up in the Systems Pref StartUp volume window. Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Cube wireless problem
On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:53 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:41 PM, John Carmonne wrote: Internet sharing is off and it's set to DHCP automatic. Also the cable and bridge work on 5 other machines. The AHT just told me my logic board is bad. Is that due to the Sonnet processor and therefore a false error? Dunno. What specific fault did AHT catch? Also, as a long shot, look closely at the pins inside the Ethernet socket on the Cube. In one case I was consistently getting results similar to yours, and upon examination I found that one of the wires had been pulled out of the little track it was in and was shorting out against the wire next to it. Some work with a pair of fine tipped forceps fixed it. The AHT ERROR CODE is scc / 3 / 7 I have a spare logic board and Ethernet card if I need it. But I wonder if the Sonnet Encore 1.2 is the blame? JOHN CARMONNE Yorba Linda USA From TiBook 800 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
HD partition not seen
I have a Newer HD case with a partitioned HD that I take with me when traveling. This I Firewire 400 connect to Sandra's iBook G4 and boot from partition #1. This trip, both partition show up on the desk top but only partition #2 shows up in the Finder Window (there in the left column) Partition #1 also does not show up in the StartUp volume Systems Pref window so I cannot boot from it. I'm perplexed. Maybe a faulty FW cable? Something missing on the P #1 drive? advice appreciated. Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: HD partition not seen
On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:12 PM, Cliff Rediger wrote: This trip, both partition show up on the desk top but only partition #2 shows up in the Finder Window (there in the left column) This is nothing, you can drag and drop the icon of the partition into the Finder sidebar. Also, in Finder PreferencesSidebarShow these items in the SidebarDevices you can check the box External Disks to make certain they're shown. Partition #1 also does not show up in the StartUp volume Systems Pref window so I cannot boot from it. Probably the HD isn't formatted as Apple Partition Scheme? If you're using this on an Intel Mac, it's likely partitioned as GUID, and if you never changed that partition format when it was new, it could be Master Boot Record which is how most all new HDs ship. You can check the partition scheme in Disk Utility. You might want to run Repair Disk on these volumes just in case? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Cube wireless problem
On Jun 7, 2010, at 6:13 PM, Chance Reecher wrote: No, it doesn't plug into your current router. It connects wirelessly to your current router as a client and provides a wired connection to the cube (or cubes if you add a mini switch.) After much searching I've come to think this unit will plug into a wired router and provide an internet connection to my Cubes via Ethernet ports on the other side of the house?? My main router and modem setup is a Time Warner supplied modem connected to a NETGEAR WNR3500 using WPA2, I guess I'll find out when it gets here. Anyone had experience with this unit? http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Linksys/WET610N OK I got the wireless bridge and ater hours trying to get it to connect my Cube I finally connected a Wally a TiBook 800 a TiBook 500 and a MacBook, 2 Cube 500s and they all work super, So My problem all along was My Cube 1.2 Sonnet machine. When I open network preffs it says I'm connected to Ethernet but maybe not to the internet and the little dot is yellow al the other machines dots are green, Is this mabe a bad Ethernet card or is my Sonnet 1.2 processor at fault? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: HD partition not seen
On Jun 10, 2:24 pm, Cliff Rediger redicl...@yahoo.com wrote: However, it still does not show up in the Systems Pref StartUp volume window. The Drive/partition in question is supposed to be a clone of my boot drive at home. I must have done something wrong during last backup. In any case, clearly everything is not there. Curious. last trip it was my terra byte drive that I botched. Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Safari 4.1 Problem
On Jun 10, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: Her system is just fine after doing an AR. In my opinion an AR (archive reinstall) isn't the most efficient way to solve a System that won't boot. Assuming the System won't safe boot, in my opinion, the most efficient way is to boot from an alternate source such as an external HD, or another Mac using Target Disk mode to mount the HD on the problem Mac, and then reinstall the latest Combo Update targeting the unbootable System. The advantage of this is that any 3rd-party System extensions are retained in the hopefully fixed System, whereas with the AR you've got basically a clean System with your old accounts. This means you need to go into the old archived System folder and transfer anything that's not present in the new System folder; or reinstall all third-party software, a real pain in my opinion. I reserve AR as a last resort fix, and always try reinstalling the Combo Update first. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
I was one of the lucky ones for which it worked for me. The method I used worked for me, but like I said sometime earlier, it might not work on all PM G4 computers. If it doesn't work, then find a way round it, the possibilities are endless. My PM G4 iSaw (I call my sawtooth an iSaw for a nickname, not the USB 2.0 Saw, lol) worked with this method. Like people, All macs are different, even if their specs are the same. -- Sent from my Power mac G4 Sawtooth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
I agree. On Jun 10, 2010, at 1:11 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Jun 10, 2010, at 7:00 AM, Albert Carter wrote: First of all G4 Power Macs do not take SO-DIMMs and neither do Dell Servers. SO-DIMMs are for Laptops and Tray Loading G3 iMacs. Secondly I doubt a PowerMac G4 would except a G5 Firmware the board wouldn't allow it the structure is completely different. Agreed!! This story is BS in my opinion. Let's see a video on YouTube or Vimeo of the 4GB Sawtooth with 10.6.3 running under Q- [kju:], PLEASE? Unless you can post proof, it sounds like pure crazy talk to me. Please, post a video with a System Profiler Page showing G5 firmware in a G4, and also a view of the insides so we can see you didn't just place a G5 logicboard into a G4 case. If no proof is offered, we need to move on and close this thread. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Safari 4.1 Problem
I upgraded my Quicksilver 733 OSX 10.4.11 to Safari 4.1 a couple of days ago, installed it, and it will not load a page. I get a little bit of a blue bar in the address URL window, but nothing even begins to load. I can't find anything on the Apple website to address this problem, can't find a copy of 4.0.3 to load and there are no updates to address this problem. Does anyone know a fix for this? Thanks Fred -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
If one had to provide a reason why it works on one Mac and not on another Mac of the same model, It seems more likely that it is not the difference between or among similar models Macs but the different applications used by the persons attempting to implement the changes. I suggest that those who were not successful, if interested, contact those who succeeded and perhaps the matter might be resolved with satisfaction among them. --- On Thu, 6/10/10, Mark Sokolovsky coolmar...@gmail.com wrote: From: Mark Sokolovsky coolmar...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete? To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 12:40 PM I was one of the lucky ones for which it worked for me. The method I used worked for me, but like I said sometime earlier, it might not work on all PM G4 computers. If it doesn't work, then find a way round it, the possibilities are endless. My PM G4 iSaw (I call my sawtooth an iSaw for a nickname, not the USB 2.0 Saw, lol) worked with this method. Like people, All macs are different, even if their specs are the same. -- Sent from my Power mac G4 Sawtooth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Safari 4.1 Problem
On Jun 10, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Fred Thiel wrote: I upgraded my Quicksilver 733 OSX 10.4.11 to Safari 4.1 a couple of days ago, installed it, and it will not load a page. I get a little bit of a blue bar in the address URL window, but nothing even begins to load. I can't find anything on the Apple website to address this problem, can't find a copy of 4.0.3 to load and there are no updates to address this problem. Does anyone know a fix for this? I updates my 10.5 laptop last night to Safari 5 (4.1 is the same update, but for Tiger) and is doing the exact same thing. Nothing in the log, the Activity window shows nothing, Safari is just sitting there not using any CPU. Nada, it just flat doesn't work. Cleared cache, cleared history, etc still no go. I haven't removed ClickToFlash, but it's working just fine on my Intel Mac with CTF installed. Firefox works on the system, so it's not a networking issue. Someone here came in with her G5 iMac not booting at all after running that update. I'm just finishing up with the latest updates (including Safari 5, she's using 10.5), and I'll see what happens. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Cube wireless problem
Do you by any chance have internet sharing enabled on the problematic cube? On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 5:40 PM, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote: On Jun 7, 2010, at 6:13 PM, Chance Reecher wrote: No, it doesn't plug into your current router. It connects wirelessly to your current router as a client and provides a wired connection to the cube (or cubes if you add a mini switch.) After much searching I've come to think this unit will plug into a wired router and provide an internet connection to my Cubes via Ethernet ports on the other side of the house?? My main router and modem setup is a Time Warner supplied modem connected to a NETGEAR WNR3500 using WPA2, I guess I'll find out when it gets here. Anyone had experience with this unit? http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Linksys/WET610N OK I got the wireless bridge and ater hours trying to get it to connect my Cube I finally connected a Wally a TiBook 800 a TiBook 500 and a MacBook, 2 Cube 500s and they all work super, So My problem all along was My Cube 1.2 Sonnet machine. When I open network preffs it says I'm connected to Ethernet but maybe not to the internet and the little dot is yellow al the other machines dots are green, Is this mabe a bad Ethernet card or is my Sonnet 1.2 processor at fault? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
On Jun 10, 2010, at 7:00 AM, Albert Carter wrote: First of all G4 Power Macs do not take SO-DIMMs and neither do Dell Servers. SO-DIMMs are for Laptops and Tray Loading G3 iMacs. Secondly I doubt a PowerMac G4 would except a G5 Firmware the board wouldn't allow it the structure is completely different. Agreed!! This story is BS in my opinion. Let's see a video on YouTube or Vimeo of the 4GB Sawtooth with 10.6.3 running under Q-[kju:], PLEASE? Unless you can post proof, it sounds like pure crazy talk to me. Please, post a video with a System Profiler Page showing G5 firmware in a G4, and also a view of the insides so we can see you didn't just place a G5 logicboard into a G4 case. If no proof is offered, we need to move on and close this thread. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Cube wireless problem
On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:41 PM, John Carmonne wrote: Internet sharing is off and it's set to DHCP automatic. Also the cable and bridge work on 5 other machines. The AHT just told me my ligic board is bad. Is that due to the Sonnet processor and therefore a false error? Dunno. What specific fault did AHT catch? Also, as a long shot, look closely at the pins inside the Ethernet socket on the Cube. In one case I was consistently getting results similar to yours, and upon examination I found that one of the wires had been pulled out of the little track it was in and was shorting out against the wire next to it. Some work with a pair of fine tipped forceps fixed it. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Cube wireless problem
On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:37 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:32 PM, John Carmonne wrote: On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Chance Reecher wrote: Do you by any chance have internet sharing enabled on the problematic cube? I have to wait to check that because I've got AHT extended running, I think I did turn that on last Sunday when I was tyring to connect with the Apple Extreme Base Station, will that be my problem? If that fixes it I'm real happy, the bridge is faster than the g card in my TiBook 800 and over twice as fast as AirPort b, It's so easy to configure you just let the Wizard do all the work. Also check stuff like 'is the Ethernet cable good', 'is the Cube set to DHCP', etc. I've gone haring off on arcane network fixes to non-working systems before I checked: 'oh some idiot set this system to a fixed IP address on an entirely different network' With myself being the 'idiot' in question, natch :-) Internet sharing is off and it's set to DHCP automatic. Also the cable and bridge work on 5 other machines. The AHT just told me my ligic board is bad. Is that due to the Sonnet processor and therefore a false error? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Cube wireless problem
On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:32 PM, John Carmonne wrote: On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Chance Reecher wrote: Do you by any chance have internet sharing enabled on the problematic cube? I have to wait to check that because I've got AHT extended running, I think I did turn that on last Sunday when I was tyring to connect with the Apple Extreme Base Station, will that be my problem? If that fixes it I'm real happy, the bridge is faster than the g card in my TiBook 800 and over twice as fast as AirPort b, It's so easy to configure you just let the Wizard do all the work. Also check stuff like 'is the Ethernet cable good', 'is the Cube set to DHCP', etc. I've gone haring off on arcane network fixes to non-working systems before I checked: 'oh some idiot set this system to a fixed IP address on an entirely different network' With myself being the 'idiot' in question, natch :-) -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Cube wireless problem
The AHT ERROR CODE is scc / 3 / 7 I have a spare logic board and Ethernet card if I need it. But I wonder if the Sonnet Encore 1.2 is the blame? Googling about I've found a few references to AHT giving similar errors with GigaDesigns update CPU's so maybe. The definitive test would be to re-install the original and run AHT again. Gee fun tonite coming on I can see now, Bummer if the card's the culprit I waited so long to get a Sonnet card just to find out my g speed idea on the Cubes works only just on my 500s.:-) John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
RE: Cube wireless problem
The AHT ERROR CODE is scc / 3 / 7 I have a spare logic board and Ethernet card if I need it. But I wonder if the Sonnet Encore 1.2 is the blame? Googling about I've found a few references to AHT giving similar errors with GigaDesigns update CPU's so maybe. The definitive test would be to re-install the original and run AHT again. Gee fun tonite coming on I can see now, Bummer if the card's the culprit I waited so long to get a Sonnet card just to find out my g speed idea on the Cubes works only just on my 500s.:-) John Carmonne I don't think it will be the fault of your Sonnet upgrade CPU John. I've run the AHT on several of my Macs - DA , MDD etc in original specs and they have come up fine. Upgrading the CPU in these or logicboard then running AHT again gave a few error reports. All these systems ran fine nonetheless with no kernel panics or spinning beachballs so I didn't worry about it. Also don't forget that to have that Sonnet running in the Cube you would have updated the firmware too which may give false readings if you are using the Cubes original AHT unless I am mistaken. Stewie _ Browse profiles for FREE! Meet local singles online. http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Cube wireless problem
On Jun 10, 2010, at 4:53 PM, Stewie de Young wrote: The AHT ERROR CODE is scc / 3 / 7 I have a spare logic board and Ethernet card if I need it. But I wonder if the Sonnet Encore 1.2 is the blame? Googling about I've found a few references to AHT giving similar errors with GigaDesigns update CPU's so maybe. The definitive test would be to re-install the original and run AHT again. Gee fun tonite coming on I can see now, Bummer if the card's the culprit I waited so long to get a Sonnet card just to find out my g speed idea on the Cubes works only just on my 500s.:-) John Carmonne I don't think it will be the fault of your Sonnet upgrade CPU John. I've run the AHT on several of my Macs - DA , MDD etc in original specs and they have come up fine. Upgrading the CPU in these or logicboard then running AHT again gave a few error reports. All these systems ran fine nonetheless with no kernel panics or spinning beachballs so I didn't worry about it. Also don't forget that to have that Sonnet running in the Cube you would have updated the firmware too which may give false readings if you are using the Cubes original AHT unless I am mistaken. Stewie Yes you're right the processor is OK I guess I just put the 500 back in and no cigar on theEthernet. Now what is the chance it's the Ethernet card, problem being the logic board I have has two mangled USB ports, I can live with it because iI have an ADC disply. but I want all my stuff up solid:-) I guess I'll report on this in a few. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Safari 4.1 Problem
I've now had a dozen Flash crashes in Safari 4.1. Pulling ClickToFlash and SafariBlock didn't change things. Upgraded from Flash 10.1.53.60 to 10.1.53.64 -- the former being last week's final beta, and the later is today's official release. So far so good... FWIW, - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Cube wireless problem
On Jun 10, 2010, at 5:36 PM, John Carmonne wrote: On Jun 10, 2010, at 4:53 PM, Stewie de Young wrote: The AHT ERROR CODE is scc / 3 / 7 I have a spare logic board and Ethernet card if I need it. But I wonder if the Sonnet Encore 1.2 is the blame? Googling about I've found a few references to AHT giving similar errors with GigaDesigns update CPU's so maybe. The definitive test would be to re-install the original and run AHT again. Gee fun tonite coming on I can see now, Bummer if the card's the culprit I waited so long to get a Sonnet card just to find out my g speed idea on the Cubes works only just on my 500s.:-) John Carmonne I don't think it will be the fault of your Sonnet upgrade CPU John. I've run the AHT on several of my Macs - DA , MDD etc in original specs and they have come up fine. Upgrading the CPU in these or logicboard then running AHT again gave a few error reports. All these systems ran fine nonetheless with no kernel panics or spinning beachballs so I didn't worry about it. Also don't forget that to have that Sonnet running in the Cube you would have updated the firmware too which may give false readings if you are using the Cubes original AHT unless I am mistaken. Stewie Yes you're right the processor is OK I guess I just put the 500 back in and no cigar on theEthernet. Now what is the chance it's the Ethernet card, problem being the logic board I have has two mangled USB ports, I can live with it because iI have an ADC disply. but I want all my stuff up solid:-) I guess I'll report on this in a few. Ohh happy days The Ethernet card was bad. All the machines now work with the bridge That's what the problem was fom the start. Thanks for the help every one:-) John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Safari 4.1 Problem
Another data point. My G4 Tibook is displaying the same issue with Webkit that it does with Safari 5: It just doesn't work. Ergo, the problem lies in what Webkit and Safari share, which I believe is only my Safari settings. Dan, do you know for sure that this is the case? -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Safari 4.1 Problem
It seems that you are experiencing the same problem that I had and I fixed it by Downloading the cosmopod installer and uninstalling it. Maybe it is another plugin that you installed but for me it was cosmopod. Good luck On Jun 10, 2010, at 7:21 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: Another data point. My G4 Tibook is displaying the same issue with Webkit that it does with Safari 5: It just doesn't work. Ergo, the problem lies in what Webkit and Safari share, which I believe is only my Safari settings. Dan, do you know for sure that this is the case? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Safari 4.1 Problem
On Jun 10, 2010, at 7:26 PM, Ricardo Sevilla wrote: It seems that you are experiencing the same problem that I had and I fixed it by Downloading the cosmopod installer and uninstalling it. Maybe it is another plugin that you installed but for me it was cosmopod. Good luck Booyah! That was it. He has a 4.5 update on his website and that one works with Safari 5. Whew! That one's the lifesaver...I have a slow internet connection at work and using CP is SO much better than watching twitchy, jerky Youtube vids. The update notification somehow got turned off, so I had V4.4, on my intel hack I've got 4.5. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Safari 4.1 Problem
At 7:21 PM -0700 6/10/2010, Bruce Johnson wrote: Another data point. My G4 Tibook is displaying the same issue with Webkit that it does with Safari 5: It just doesn't work. Ergo, the problem lies in what Webkit and Safari share, which I believe is only my Safari settings. Dan, do you know for sure that this is the case? Well, the commonalities would include Safari.app, inputmanagers, plug-ins, cookies, and everything in ~/Library/Safari. Remember - WebKit.app is just a script that simply tweaks a shell variable to make Safari.app use the frameworks within instead of the ones in /Library. Things got more stable for me after installing the latest Flash. Now and then, tho, I'm still getting blank pages. The progress bar does its thing and finishes, the Activity windows shows 'tis done, but the window contents are blank. Firefox loads the same page with no problemo. So I did a bit of a wipe... Deinstalled Flash, reinstalled Flash, trashed all of ~/Library/Caches/, Cookies, everything in Safari/ except bookmarks, and Preferences/Macromedia/. Things are more reliable now. But still not 100%... I'm thinking maybe the dns prefetch feature is involved. Not sure how to test that tho. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Memory compatibility with G5
I have a 1600MHz single-core G5 that come from the factory with 2X512MB of memory. I added a matching pair of 1GB sticks (PC3200), and the G5 won't turn on. A red light turns on, near the front of the case. If the PC3200 isn't compatible, which speed should I use? When I take the RAM out, it works again... what should I do? Illirik Smirnov -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Memory compatibility with G5
On Jun 10, 2010, at 9:18 PM, Illirik Smirnov wrote: I have a 1600MHz single-core G5 that come from the factory with 2X512MB of memory. I added a matching pair of 1GB sticks (PC3200), and the G5 won't turn on. A red light turns on, near the front of the case. If the PC3200 isn't compatible, which speed should I use? When I take the RAM out, it works again... what should I do? These PC3200 should be compatible. G5's are really finicky about the seating of the RAM, and you may have to reseat the stick many times before they recognize correctly. You might try the 1GB stick in the slots the 512MB are in now. Remember, the RAM is matched pairs and they need to be in the correct matching slots. Since yours only has 4 slots, this shouldn't be an issue, but on 8 slot G5's you need to pay close attention. If the two 1GB sticks aren't exactly identical this could also be a problem, they normally need to be a matched pair. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Memory compatibility with G5
On 6/10/10 10:18 PM, Illirik Smirnov of illir...@gmail.com sent I have a 1600MHz single-core G5 that come from the factory with 2X512MB of memory. I added a matching pair of 1GB sticks (PC3200), and the G5 won't turn on. A red light turns on, near the front of the case. If the PC3200 isn't compatible, which speed should I use? When I take the RAM out, it works again... what should I do? Illirik Smirnov Hello Illirik, I have this same G5. The native RAM is actually PC2700, though 3200 should work. Your description sounds like a classic bad RAM issue. When you say won't turn on do you mean won't boot (current is noticeable, since you have a red light), or do you mean absolutely nothing? I suspect the former. Here are some quoted symptoms from Apple re: you're issue: No power (LED on/off, no fans, no boot tone, no video) 1. Check power supply cables 2. Check logic board power rails 3. Check processor connector 4. Check logic board tape for dual config 5. Replace power supply 6. Replace processor 7. Replace logic board No boot (LED on/off, fans spin, no boot tone, no video) 1. Replace memory 2. Replace logic board Memory (blinking LED, fans spin, no boot tone, no video) 1. Check memory config and replace DIMMs 2. Replace logic board No boot tone (LED on, fans spin, no boot tone, video) or No video (LED on, fans spin, boot tone, no video) 1. Reseat video card 2. Replace video card 3. Replace front panel board cable 4. Replace speaker 5. Replace front panel board 6. Replace logic board The second entry is, I think, your concern, with replace memory as #1 fix. Contact your vendor and ask for a replacement for the two sticks of RAM. HTH, Dana -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Will PowerPC be forever obsolete?
okay, i will post a video on sunday, but anywhere i can get a screen recording program for Mac OS X? -- Sent from my Power mac G4 Sawtooth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
