Re: [Audyssey] News from Blastbay Studios, and a call for opinions
Hi Phillip, 1 No. 2 No. 3 HTML with proper headings and sub headings is my favorite and plain text is my second favorite. 4 No preference, seems like offering the codes at a price is a good way to earn just a little extra money for the game and is totally valid in my opinion. I use markdown to generate the HTML documentation for Tactical Battle and AGE. It is very simple to do headings and sub headings and the free Pandoc tool even offers the ability to generate a table of contents at the top with links to each of your headings. I'm on an iPhone right now or I'd send you some helpful links about it. If you decide to go the HTML route send me a message off list and I'll help you get setup with markdown. As someone who has written more than my share of straight HTML documents I can say that markdown is far more pleasant to use for documentation. Ian Reed --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] News from Blastbay Studios, and a call for opinions
Hello Philip. Here are my ansers to your questions 1. I would personally love to see a cd of the game after ordering it as well as download it. This could come in handy if your internet brakes down and it takes a few days to get it fixed. 2. The size of the download doesn't matter to me. 3. I would love to see a longer version of the manual in text format, but then I would like to see an audio tutorial that would explain the levels. This would be helpful if you were stuck, and needed some help on getting through the level. 4. I would personally only use cheats when absolutely nessisary. What I mean is that say if you were in a level and you were getting stuck in a level and you couldn't get through the game as fast, then you should have the option to buy the cheats if you needed to get through the impossible level. -Original Message- From: Philip Bennefall Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 12:19 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] News from Blastbay Studios, and a call for opinions Hi all, I am slowly but surely nearing the finish line for my current game project, and before I release it I would like to ask the community at large some questions. Your input will greatly help me when deciding what to spend time on before release. Below are four questions that I would very much appreciate your answers to: 1. Would you like the ability to order the game on CD? This would cost something like 10 dollars extra including worldwide shipping. 2. How much does the size of the game matter when it comes to the downloadable version? Is something like 300 MB too large? 3. In what format would you prefer to have the manual? Narrated inside the game, available in text format, or both? 4. If the game contained cheat codes and you had to beat it in order to unlock them, would you want the ability to buy them for something like 5 dollars without having to earn them? This applies to other unlockable content, as well. I do not have a set release date for the game yet, but it will be available in the not too distant future. The game that I am refering to is not Perilous Hearts, but is actually something even larger and, in my opinion, far superior. The state of Perilous Hearts is currently not 100% certain, but I am confident that you'll enjoy this game just as much and hopefully a whole lot more. I cannot give any definite information about the game at present, except that it is a mix between arcade and adventure with a boatload of action thrown on top. Thanks in advance for reading, and taking the time to respond to my questions! Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Chain Reaction
Hi Nicole. Just to add to what Thomas has written hear, there are plenty of free games out there which are accessible and highly enjoyable, Jim Kitchen's games for instance. There are also lots of websites where you can play text based fantasy game books, muds and traditional text adventure games such as those produced by Infocom though with advances in modern technology, even these can be thrilling, highly entertaining and very absorbing. I totally get that you cant afford to pay for the latest games, however steeling someone else's product doesn't just break the law in your country, it also disincentives developers to make these games which in turn affects us all. All my best and please feel free to get in touch, I can help you find free audio games and text based games if you're interested. Take care, Ibrahim XX. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:03 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Chain Reaction Hi Nicole, Let's be clear on this point. Steeling is by definition taking something without paying for it or taking something that does not belong to you. Just because you can't physically pick it up and take it does not mean you can't steel it. There are multiple forms of steeling. For example, if a game developer has an audio game for sale for $20 and you get it from someone else for free you have stolen it. The reason is that developer has spent time working on that game, has probably paid for sounds and music, and perhaps has paid a voice actor or actress to voice various characters in the game. Therefore that developer should be financially compensated for his/her time, the money spent on development, etc. When you just take a game for free without paying for it you in effect steel both their time and labor without properly paying for them. You can also steel ideas. The reason copyright laws exist is to protect people's rights to what are known as intellectual property rights. I.E. their ideas. You can't just read a good book, watch a movie, or whatever and use those characters etc in your own product and sell it because that would be steeling that person's ideas. Does that make sense? Bottom line, it is pretty simple. If you don't pay for it and it doesn't belong to you then you have stolen it. It doesn't matter if it is an idea, a piece of software, or something physical like a DVD or CD steeling is steeling. It is for that reason if anyone, and I mean anyone, is caught pirating a game on this list they will not only be moderated but banned from this list forever. Keep that in mind before casually asking someone to Dropbox a game to you because that will not be allowed. Cheers! On 4/29/13, Nicole white bookworm.nic...@gmail.com wrote: This sia game where the words connect together to form a word train and they give yo uhints to figure it out. As far as Change Reaction, i aboslutely don't have the money for that either. If someone wishes to drop box it to me, i have no issue with that. i never saw piracy as stealing. i always thought that stealing that you had to personally pick something up and take it. If stealing has multiple meaningsk, please explain them to me. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] New version of SoundScape Explorer released, and it needs a better name
Well, you didn't think this little project would always just be walking around did you? That would be boring. So the project needs a whole new name to reflect what it is becoming. Download the latest alpha version here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96692612/SoundscapeExplorer.zip You could, in a way, say the game is complete. In fact, it is fully playable as it stands right now--or almost anyway. You won't be told you won when you complete the mission. Your mission is simple. Destroy everything. Okay, so it's not as simple as it sounds. The marching band might be easy pickings, and the birds sure are, but how will you handle the two high-speed cars? There's a fun little easter egg in the game too, and I'm not giving any hints. Needless to say, if you've found something i haven't mentioned, you've found it. Mum's the word. New since version 0.3: two high-speed cars ability to kill all mobs when in range and facing them t key tells you what targets are around, their angles, and distance. For example, it might say, car1, 185, and 2. Can't remember the order it's spoken in, but you get the idea, so turn around and nail it. If you can, that is. You might survive one brush with a car, but you certainly won't survive a second, and the band's not playing around either. Those instruments of theirs can be deadly, and they know how to use 'em. Press the r key to get the ranges of all objects. What's coming next? More streets with more intersections, and lights that control the traffic. Lots more vehicles. Cars will not always go from one end of the street to another, but will turn down intersections sometimes. Mobs will be able to crash into each other and fight. I am also planning on the player being able to steal parked cars and drive away. Maybe the blind will finally have a Grand Theft Auto experience. then, imagine doing it all online, playing against other people! Just cuz I don't know how to code it now doesn't mean I won't learn. :) Anyway, whatever the game is, it's definitely gravitating toward cars, weapons, you get the drift. If you don't like that sort of thing, grab the code and make it your own. that's why it's open source. Don't like violence? Your fist becomes a watering can as you seek to water all the flowers in your garden before time runs out... The sky's the limit! I've been workin' like a dog to make this happen, so give it a try. Check out my games at www.ThePionEar.net and my music, and that of my band, at www.ThePionEar.net/BlindLabyrinth.html . If you want to reach me, you can call 419-744-0517, friend me on Facebook, (KenWDowney,) or write me at kenwdow...@me.com . Crazy Ken --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Dice world question.
Hello. I just downloaded Dice world for my iPhone, and was playing around with the practice mode. However I had one question concerning the practice mode. Can you play against the computer? Or do you just play against yourself? Thanks! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows
I can't stand Vista or Windows 7, but staying with 98? Wow! I ditched that as soon as XP came out. XP was stable, fully accessible, so why not? But staying with 98? Why not just go all-out retro and reinstall 3.1? Better yet, MS DOS has a lot going for it, right? With its 640K of memory you're sure to love it... All right, I'm done teasing. The point is that people shouldn't feel they have to support older systems. As for me, when they stop supporting XP, I'll just ask for an older version if I want one. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Chain Reaction
It's just like I told you when you wanted Phrase Madness for free just because you have a disability. You said, Your games should be free for the disabled. Duh! I said, I am disabled also. Most of the devs on this list are blind, and many don't have jobs except for selling their games. Nine bucks is very reasonable for a game like this. In the past, these kinds of games went for $30 or more. By the way, I'm waiting for the iOS version, then I'm snatchin' it up. Check out my games at www.ThePionEar.net and my music, and that of my band, at www.ThePionEar.net/BlindLabyrinth.html . If you want to reach me, you can call 419-744-0517, friend me on Facebook, (KenWDowney,) or write me at kenwdow...@me.com . Crazy Ken - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Chain Reaction The word game your thinking of is called chain link, and it's available for free from Dan Zingaro's website. As to game piracy nicole, well if this was audiogames.net you'd get one stern warning for a comment like that then on a second offence be banned. Telling someone who has just spent several months making a game well it's okay for me to steal it then is not only very insensative but also counter productive to the community, and people who cannot support developers don't deserve to be part of the community. If you can't afford the game, save your money until you can. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Free games was Re: Chain Reaction
Hello all I went onto the Gma Games website yesterday and they have some cool free games as well. You guys remember Trek 2000 for example? Well that was a commercial product, but it has now gone free since they won't be updating it. Also all of Dan Z's games are free. Just some options. Chris. Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com On 30/04/2013 07:42, Ibrahim Gucukoglu wrote: Hi Nicole. Just to add to what Thomas has written hear, there are plenty of free games out there which are accessible and highly enjoyable, Jim Kitchen's games for instance. There are also lots of websites where you can play text based fantasy game books, muds and traditional text adventure games such as those produced by Infocom though with advances in modern technology, even these can be thrilling, highly entertaining and very absorbing. I totally get that you cant afford to pay for the latest games, however steeling someone else's product doesn't just break the law in your country, it also disincentives developers to make these games which in turn affects us all. All my best and please feel free to get in touch, I can help you find free audio games and text based games if you're interested. Take care, Ibrahim XX. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows
win7 aint that bad I have a win7 unit here. true it takes a bit of getting used to, xp is the better os interface wise, however 7 is better than 8. In fact I have it in 32 bit mode with the vb6 libs loaded and have no issue at all. At 06:48 PM 4/30/2013, you wrote: I can't stand Vista or Windows 7, but staying with 98? Wow! I ditched that as soon as XP came out. XP was stable, fully accessible, so why not? But staying with 98? Why not just go all-out retro and reinstall 3.1? Better yet, MS DOS has a lot going for it, right? With its 640K of memory you're sure to love it... All right, I'm done teasing. The point is that people shouldn't feel they have to support older systems. As for me, when they stop supporting XP, I'll just ask for an older version if I want one. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows
FF20 can finally play MP3's, because mozilla finally lets you use the windows media codecs for html5 audio and video. The thing is it's turned off by default and you need to turn it on in about:config, which is not somewhere any, especially not advanced computer users, will look (the only way I found out about it was through a tech news site). That said I think just linking to the file will be much easier in the long run if you want to support as many browsers, because sadly every browser supports different files. Chrome does everything, FF normally only does ogg and wav, but safari and IE don't do ogg, only mp3, which isn't playable in firefox 19 and older... quite a pain to get something that works everywhere. I'd most likely end up streaming the file anyway... but I think you should give people choice in this matter. On 2013-04-29 22:08, Draconis wrote: Glad you have it working, Kelly. On an aside, we are not using Java for the audio player, just HTML. There is a problem with some Firefox configurations, and with old versions of Internet Explorer, since IE is horrible about standards and keeping up with the times. We're working on fixing the Firefox issue, but not much we can do for old versions of IE. The reason that many places don't use MP3 downloads much any more is because, for most, they are inconvenient. I, personally, hate sites that still make me download an MP3 that I just want to listen to in the browser. Imagine if YouTube did this for videos! The VI community, in general, is one of the last groups to move, fighting all along the way, with technology as it changes. This is a partial reason why we see issues like the recent BSC situation with games that become obsolete. At some point, we have to draw a line in the sand and say, we just can't support those who choose to lag behind. That being said, we're doing everything we can to support as wide a group as possible. We wanted to drop XP support with the new game engine, but decided not to for now. However, we won't hang on to it forever. We've gotten emails from those upset we're not supporting Windows 98 anymore. We just can't. We'll continue to do our best to make as many gamers happy as we can. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] ChangeReaction 2 -- High Scores
Hi, wow, I really have to keep trying with those highscores! But I'll do that. My highest score in classic so far was $51 and change. I played the other modes just once, so my highscore wasn't anything to speak of. Lol. Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Chain Reaction
Hi Desiree, Yes, and the thing that is most memorable about that specific case in point is Liam was very mature about the whole thing and calmly explained his point of view without being nasty or verbally cutting the wannabe pirate to ribbons. I respect that in a developer. Far too many people in his situation would be tempted to let loose and cut the pirate down to size. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: No kidding. Besides, Liam is a member of that site, so what a blatantly stupid thing to do. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] News from Blastbay Studios, and a call for opinions
Hello Philip It's good to hear that your almost done. But 1st I have a question for you. What is your game about? I don't need to know what the game is about to anser your questions. so to anser your questions. 1stI think that being abel to order it on cd will be a good option. I know that there are a lot of people that would like backups. I know I'm one of those people that like backups of every thing I got. I can do that myself, but why if I can just buy it strate from you. It would just save me some time. 2nd I think that just depends on if the game is worth it to those that have slow computers. Myself if the game is good I wouldn't mind the whait. 3rd I think that both is good to have. Unless it is to save space why not have both. 4th I think that both is a great plan. there are those of us that would like to play a game and reap the benefits of beating the game. but I also know that there are those out there that would pay to unlock stuff. bfn James -- From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:19 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] News from Blastbay Studios, and a call for opinions Hi all, I am slowly but surely nearing the finish line for my current game project, and before I release it I would like to ask the community at large some questions. Your input will greatly help me when deciding what to spend time on before release. Below are four questions that I would very much appreciate your answers to: 1. Would you like the ability to order the game on CD? This would cost something like 10 dollars extra including worldwide shipping. 2. How much does the size of the game matter when it comes to the downloadable version? Is something like 300 MB too large? 3. In what format would you prefer to have the manual? Narrated inside the game, available in text format, or both? 4. If the game contained cheat codes and you had to beat it in order to unlock them, would you want the ability to buy them for something like 5 dollars without having to earn them? This applies to other unlockable content, as well. I do not have a set release date for the game yet, but it will be available in the not too distant future. The game that I am refering to is not Perilous Hearts, but is actually something even larger and, in my opinion, far superior. The state of Perilous Hearts is currently not 100% certain, but I am confident that you'll enjoy this game just as much and hopefully a whole lot more. I cannot give any definite information about the game at present, except that it is a mix between arcade and adventure with a boatload of action thrown on top. Thanks in advance for reading, and taking the time to respond to my questions! Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] News from Blastbay Studios, and a call for opinions
Plese itnore the question about what the game was about. I missed the last part of your email, But my ansers stay the same. Bfn James -- From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:19 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] News from Blastbay Studios, and a call for opinions Hi all, I am slowly but surely nearing the finish line for my current game project, and before I release it I would like to ask the community at large some questions. Your input will greatly help me when deciding what to spend time on before release. Below are four questions that I would very much appreciate your answers to: 1. Would you like the ability to order the game on CD? This would cost something like 10 dollars extra including worldwide shipping. 2. How much does the size of the game matter when it comes to the downloadable version? Is something like 300 MB too large? 3. In what format would you prefer to have the manual? Narrated inside the game, available in text format, or both? 4. If the game contained cheat codes and you had to beat it in order to unlock them, would you want the ability to buy them for something like 5 dollars without having to earn them? This applies to other unlockable content, as well. I do not have a set release date for the game yet, but it will be available in the not too distant future. The game that I am refering to is not Perilous Hearts, but is actually something even larger and, in my opinion, far superior. The state of Perilous Hearts is currently not 100% certain, but I am confident that you'll enjoy this game just as much and hopefully a whole lot more. I cannot give any definite information about the game at present, except that it is a mix between arcade and adventure with a boatload of action thrown on top. Thanks in advance for reading, and taking the time to respond to my questions! Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] web site query
Hi Joseph, You could go to my games list, http://www.pcsgames.net/game-co.htm Use your search feature to look for, dan or zing. it would be the third dan or the second zing to get to, Daniel Zingaro's Games. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] web site query Hi Joseph, Here it is again. The site is http://www.danielzingaro.com and the games are on the games page. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows
Hi, I'm using Firefox 20. I turned on HTML 5 in about:config, but it still won't work on the draconis site. Is there anything else I have to change here? I'm just asking because there are over 2000 entries in there, I don't want to read them all first. Lol. Thanks and best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Problem registering Ten Pin Alley, can anyone duplicate?
chris i dont know where there is any way to send them any emails ,i am getting to the point i will just delete the copy that i have and count it as loss. your friend lee In a message dated 4/28/2013 5:48:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, christopher...@gmail.com writes: Lee please keep at it with Draconis. They are nothing but very helpful to me and I'm sure they will be to you. Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com On 28/04/2013 10:38, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris since then i paid for a new ten pin alley but i did not get any registeration info your friend lee In a message dated 4/27/2013 6:23:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, i...@dracoent.com writes: Hi Lee, Actually, you recently wrote to us because you lost your key. We do not replace registration keys anymore. We ask users in their registration email to please backup their registration information to a safe place. We were getting absolutely swamped with replacement key requests, and had to adopt that policy, since our older titles were never hardware locked. Sorry for the inconvenience. On Apr 27, 2013, at 5:46 PM, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris i ordered the game but i did not get the registration info . your friendlee In a message dated 4/27/2013 4:31:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, christopher...@gmail.com writes: Good evening all. I am not asking for help, since I am on to it with Draconis, but can anyone duplicate the following. 1. Order yourself the registration information for Ten Pin Alley. 2. Once you have received the registration information, copy exactly what is given, then paste it into the appropriate fields in the program. 3. At my end, it just will not work. I have heard of problems running this game under Windows Xp, but I am using Windows 7 64 bit so that shouldn't matter. Any responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make
Re: [Audyssey] Dice world question.
You play against yourself. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 02:44 Subject: [Audyssey] Dice world question. Hello. I just downloaded Dice world for my iPhone, and was playing around with the practice mode. However I had one question concerning the practice mode. Can you play against the computer? Or do you just play against yourself? Thanks! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6284 - Release Date: 04/29/13 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
There have been lots of messages from certain developers commenting that people with windows do not have the latest versions, that they can't support this that and the other, that such and such a component is old, etc etc. ? Okay, I offer this as a direct challenge to developers. There are three reasons I principley stick with xp: 1: compatibility with dos applications. As a huge fan of text rpgs, I play not a few games with dos such as fallthru, and age of legends, yet thanks to microsoft that would not be possible on a 64 bit machine. For sighted users this isn't a problem since they can use the dosbox emulator, and indeed newer dos, or dos style applications are still being developed using it, noteably Eamon deluxe (and since there are over 270 Eamon games that is quite a lot just on it's own). If a developer created a screen reader friendly version of dosbox or a similar way to run 16 bit console window applications, it would mean that older games, which have been playable for the past 30 years would continue to be so for the blind community. This is something I know the developer of Eamon deluxe has been looking into and discussing with the dosbox dev team, but perhaps some assistance from a programmer with more knolidge of screen readers' interaction with windows would be of help, that is unless someone cannot create say a small application that outputs dos text to sapi or similar. ? Of course virtual xp is always an option, but neither a simple nor straight forward one, nor one which works successfully for many people. ? 2: audio games created using vb6 and direct x. Microsoft have, as we've been told dropped vb6 support and messed about with many of their direct x components. with the number of accessible games being so small, it is a real shame when they cannot be run on newer machines due to lack of support for the components. Again, since windows xp existed as a viable os for close to 10 years and is still largely in use today, we're talking about a long period of time and not a few games, indeed a post last year on audiogames.net was from a 64 bit windows user who complained that the upgrade actually lost! them more than it gained. If I could be certain the dependencies to run games like classic pipe were still available in some sense for post xp windows, I'd be less concerned about upgrading my os. ? While I know vb6 is likely to continue as a viable option provided dependencies are installed, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone can still write games in it, I'm less certain regarding other components, especially with what I've heard of other games not working under later windows versions. ? 3: interface. ? There is no denying that microsoft have by their nature created an interface which is more graphical, less logical and less customizable, a trend continued in windows 8. It is not for instance possible to have listed menues or coherent folder structures, not to mention the los of simpler, but more user friendly things like outlook express (a program I'd really! miss). This is frankly a pain in the arse, but is something I, and likely others would be willing to suffer if it were for an over all bennifit, however that bennifit has not materialized. In general, for myself at least, the things I use a computer for would be far more harmed than bennifited from upgrading, since I'd have less access to software and games, a harder to use interface, and nothing I've seen related to the other things I use a computer for, music, dvds, writing, using e mail that would particularly be of help, even in terms of net brousing, this business of mp3 playback is the first thing I've heard of that ie9 does which would actually be of help to me. All that aside, if the compatibility issues were solved, if there was a screen reader friendly dosbox and stored components for runing older games I think people might be a little more willing to upgrade, --- I know I would, especially if as draconis has indicated more games that do not support xp are likely in the future. ? Yes, there is an arguement that if Draconis or other developers create games as good as the older ones, running the older ones becomes superfluous, but while this may be true of something like chillingham or troopanum (indeed from what I've heard The inquisitor is a good arguement regarding Chillingham), it would be less easy with something like shades or terraformers due to their extra complexity, setting, unique story, good design etc, particularly since while the older arcade style games are easier to replicate, even in a good design (alien outback vs troopanum for instance), the same is not true of first person adventure or action games which took considderably more work and complexity but which are not being maintained, terraformers being a primary example, and since such games are obviously harder to make due to their complexity, making
[Audyssey] More Games
Hello all thanks to L-Works, I have probably all of their games, both demo and free. I really like their free offering called Slide! I am in to puzzles you see. Slide is based on a slide puzzle. You can either have a 3 by 3 grid, a 4 by 4 grid, and a word grid. The object is to re-arrange the numbers or letters in their proper order, leavin the empty square at the bottom right. Love it! I of course like their offerings but that Slide is a brilliant idea for a game. Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows
Hi Tom, Sadly, I am serious. But your point about 98 being 15-years-old speaks to the broader point I was making as well. XP is 12-years-old now. Folks will either start migrating on their own terms, or find themselves in a position, sooner or later, when they are forced to migrate unexpectedly. On Apr 30, 2013, at 12:27 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Josh, Are you serious? People are upset you aren't supporting Windows 98. The operating system is like 15 years old and hasn't been supported by anyone since 2006 or so. Some people seriously need to get their heads out of their backsides and realize that we, game developers, can't afford to support something that old forever. Cheers! On 4/29/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: Glad you have it working, Kelly. On an aside, we are not using Java for the audio player, just HTML. There is a problem with some Firefox configurations, and with old versions of Internet Explorer, since IE is horrible about standards and keeping up with the times. We're working on fixing the Firefox issue, but not much we can do for old versions of IE. The reason that many places don't use MP3 downloads much any more is because, for most, they are inconvenient. I, personally, hate sites that still make me download an MP3 that I just want to listen to in the browser. Imagine if YouTube did this for videos! The VI community, in general, is one of the last groups to move, fighting all along the way, with technology as it changes. This is a partial reason why we see issues like the recent BSC situation with games that become obsolete. At some point, we have to draw a line in the sand and say, we just can't support those who choose to lag behind. That being said, we're doing everything we can to support as wide a group as possible. We wanted to drop XP support with the new game engine, but decided not to for now. However, we won't hang on to it forever. We've gotten emails from those upset we're not supporting Windows 98 anymore. We just can't. We'll continue to do our best to make as many gamers happy as we can. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Windows 7 and games was Re: My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows
Not only that but my Windows 7 here loves the games I have so far. I have heard however Descent into Madness will not run on Windows 7 but haven't tried it myself. Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com On 30/04/2013 09:18, shaun everiss wrote: win7 aint that bad I have a win7 unit here. true it takes a bit of getting used to, xp is the better os interface wise, however 7 is better than 8. In fact I have it in 32 bit mode with the vb6 libs loaded and have no issue at all. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Problem registering Ten Pin Alley, can anyone duplicate?
Lee you can't do that you need to go to their website click help and click submit a ticket. Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com On 28/04/2013 10:53, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris i dont know where there is any way to send them any emails ,i am getting to the point i will just delete the copy that i have and count it as loss. your friend lee In a message dated 4/28/2013 5:48:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, christopher...@gmail.com writes: Lee please keep at it with Draconis. They are nothing but very helpful to me and I'm sure they will be to you. Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com On 28/04/2013 10:38, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris since then i paid for a new ten pin alley but i did not get any registeration info your friend lee In a message dated 4/27/2013 6:23:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, i...@dracoent.com writes: Hi Lee, Actually, you recently wrote to us because you lost your key. We do not replace registration keys anymore. We ask users in their registration email to please backup their registration information to a safe place. We were getting absolutely swamped with replacement key requests, and had to adopt that policy, since our older titles were never hardware locked. Sorry for the inconvenience. On Apr 27, 2013, at 5:46 PM, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris i ordered the game but i did not get the registration info . your friendlee In a message dated 4/27/2013 4:31:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, christopher...@gmail.com writes: Good evening all. I am not asking for help, since I am on to it with Draconis, but can anyone duplicate the following. 1. Order yourself the registration information for Ten Pin Alley. 2. Once you have received the registration information, copy exactly what is given, then paste it into the appropriate fields in the program. 3. At my end, it just will not work. I have heard of problems running this game under Windows Xp, but I am using Windows 7 64 bit so that shouldn't matter. Any responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] the nightjar help with getting eatin in thedranesonlevil 8.
You must run! -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Mich Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 10:15 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] the nightjar help with getting eatin in thedranesonlevil 8. I have tryed that. I keep getting eatinw hen I hear a splashing sound then when I take one more step I get eatin. if I try to stick to the meddle I am fine. from Mich. - Original Message - From: Darren Duff duff...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] the nightjar help with getting eatin in thedranesonlevil 8. Keep moving do n't stop! -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:17 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] the nightjar help with getting eatin in the dranesonlevil 8. I'm at the same level, but figure that I won't rely on a walk through or anything that would spoil the challenge. After all, how long has the game been available? Not even two weeks. I'd rather work through it without the help from others. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Mich mi...@eastlink.ca To: gamers @audyssey.org gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 4:26 PM Subject: [Audyssey] the nightjar help with getting eatin in the dranes onlevil 8. Hi all. I have managed to make it to levil 8 of the nightjar but am now stuck. I keep on getting eatin in the dranes. no madder what I try. many thanks for any help that any one can give me if there is a walkthrough of this levil that would be nice or any addvice that any one can give me that would be grait. many thanks. from Mich. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Well were you live you might be able to get another xp box, but here in the states those are memories. The shops and stores sense win7 came out now support that op and won't even think of selling xp. Its just like computers you may have a good running box. However, progress makes that box out dated before the year is out. Progress always moves forward not backward in the case of xp. Even software creators see that and move with it those that don't no longer have saleable software. So you keep that xp box and when the new stuff won't work on it don't cry, because you chose that option not software providers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark, My responses are throughout. *snip* 1: compatibility with dos applications. As a huge fan of text rpgs, I play not a few games with dos such as fallthru, and age of legends, yet thanks to microsoft that would not be possible on a 64 bit machine. For sighted users this isn't a problem since they can use the dosbox emulator, and indeed newer dos, or dos style applications are still being developed using it, noteably Eamon deluxe (and since there are over 270 Eamon games that is quite a lot just on it's own). If a developer created a screen reader friendly version of dosbox or a similar way to run 16 bit console window applications, it would mean that older games, which have been playable for the past 30 years would continue to be so for the blind community. This is something I know the developer of Eamon deluxe has been looking into and discussing with the dosbox dev team, but perhaps some assistance from a programmer with more knolidge of screen readers' interaction with windows would be of help, that is unless someone cannot create say a small application that outputs dos text to sapi or similar. *snip* First, there is a certain amount of irony that the first point on your list is essentially that you want to be able to cling to the past in order to move into the future. It is sort of like saying, thirty years ago, that you wouldn't use a CD player because it couldn't play your vinyl records. I use this analogy as someone who has a fair number of rare vinyl records which do not exist in modern formats. This doesn't keep me from having a CD player, or, these days, using iTunes. The vast, vast, vast majority of Windows users never upgrade their existing machine. They go buy a cheap new computer which happens to have the latest OS on it. When this occurs, rather than going through channels to keep using obsolete software, hang on to the old machine to play such games, and keep that machine in as good repair as possible, much as I have had to do with vinyl record players over the years. I still have my working Apple 2GS computer as well, specifically for the nostalgia playing the old games I had for it. I've had it for, likely, longer than many of the participants of this list have been alive, and it still works, because I've taken care of it. So, while your option of an accessible DOS emulator would be the ideal, it is something that is relatively easily worked around. *snip* 2: audio games created using vb6 and direct x. Microsoft have, as we've been told dropped vb6 support and messed about with many of their direct x components. with the number of accessible games being so small, it is a real shame when they cannot be run on newer machines due to lack of support for the components. Again, since windows xp existed as a viable os for close to 10 years and is still largely in use today, we're talking about a long period of time and not a few games, indeed a post last year on audiogames.net was from a 64 bit windows user who complained that the upgrade actually lost! them more than it gained. If I could be certain the dependencies to run games like classic pipe were still available in some sense for post xp windows, I'd be less concerned about upgrading my os. While I know vb6 is likely to continue as a viable option provided dependencies are installed, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone can still write games in it, I'm less certain regarding other components, especially with what I've heard of other games not working under later windows versions. *snip* This point is really just the same as your first point, with the same solutions available, be that virtual machines, emulation, or hanging on and maintaining an older machine for the time being. And, as far as Draconis goes, we are working to move our games forward to modern operating systems. *snip* 3: interface. There is no denying that microsoft have by their nature created an interface which is more graphical, less logical and less customizable, a trend continued in windows 8. It is not for instance possible to have listed menues or coherent folder structures, not to mention the los of simpler, but more user friendly things like outlook express (a program I'd really! miss). This is frankly a pain in the arse, but is something I, and likely others would be willing to suffer if it were for an over all bennifit, however that bennifit has not materialized. *snip* While I disagree that more graphical inherently means less accessible…I think that age-old myth has been dispelled for years…there's no denying that Microsoft has made a mess of things for everyone, not just visually impaired users. This is why I am a Mac user. It is less frustration, less expensive, and a far more productive and pleasant computing experience than what Microsoft currently offers. And, with the ability to install and boot
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark and all. on the topic of upgrading to windows 7 from xp I agree with you in all that you have said hear. I use xp for my maine pc use and have a laptop running windows 7 for a backup but I hardley ever use that unless say I am traviling. I agree with all your points that xp is mutch simplier to use then say windows 7 is since I like the idea of the start menu witch they took away in 7 and i of korce love outlook express. so in short I will use this xp pc for as long as possible. from Mich. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 7:54 PM Subject: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows There have been lots of messages from certain developers commenting that people with windows do not have the latest versions, that they can't support this that and the other, that such and such a component is old, etc etc. ? Okay, I offer this as a direct challenge to developers. There are three reasons I principley stick with xp: 1: compatibility with dos applications. As a huge fan of text rpgs, I play not a few games with dos such as fallthru, and age of legends, yet thanks to microsoft that would not be possible on a 64 bit machine. For sighted users this isn't a problem since they can use the dosbox emulator, and indeed newer dos, or dos style applications are still being developed using it, noteably Eamon deluxe (and since there are over 270 Eamon games that is quite a lot just on it's own). If a developer created a screen reader friendly version of dosbox or a similar way to run 16 bit console window applications, it would mean that older games, which have been playable for the past 30 years would continue to be so for the blind community. This is something I know the developer of Eamon deluxe has been looking into and discussing with the dosbox dev team, but perhaps some assistance from a programmer with more knolidge of screen readers' interaction with windows would be of help, that is unless someone cannot create say a small application that outputs dos text to sapi or similar. ? Of course virtual xp is always an option, but neither a simple nor straight forward one, nor one which works successfully for many people. ? 2: audio games created using vb6 and direct x. Microsoft have, as we've been told dropped vb6 support and messed about with many of their direct x components. with the number of accessible games being so small, it is a real shame when they cannot be run on newer machines due to lack of support for the components. Again, since windows xp existed as a viable os for close to 10 years and is still largely in use today, we're talking about a long period of time and not a few games, indeed a post last year on audiogames.net was from a 64 bit windows user who complained that the upgrade actually lost! them more than it gained. If I could be certain the dependencies to run games like classic pipe were still available in some sense for post xp windows, I'd be less concerned about upgrading my os. ? While I know vb6 is likely to continue as a viable option provided dependencies are installed, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone can still write games in it, I'm less certain regarding other components, especially with what I've heard of other games not working under later windows versions. ? 3: interface. ? There is no denying that microsoft have by their nature created an interface which is more graphical, less logical and less customizable, a trend continued in windows 8. It is not for instance possible to have listed menues or coherent folder structures, not to mention the los of simpler, but more user friendly things like outlook express (a program I'd really! miss). This is frankly a pain in the arse, but is something I, and likely others would be willing to suffer if it were for an over all bennifit, however that bennifit has not materialized. In general, for myself at least, the things I use a computer for would be far more harmed than bennifited from upgrading, since I'd have less access to software and games, a harder to use interface, and nothing I've seen related to the other things I use a computer for, music, dvds, writing, using e mail that would particularly be of help, even in terms of net brousing, this business of mp3 playback is the first thing I've heard of that ie9 does which would actually be of help to me. All that aside, if the compatibility issues were solved, if there was a screen reader friendly dosbox and stored components for runing older games I think people might be a little more willing to upgrade, --- I know I would, especially if as draconis has indicated more games that do not support xp are likely in the future. ? Yes, there is an arguement that if Draconis or other developers create games as good as the older ones, running the older ones becomes superfluous, but while this may be true
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi trouble. As I said, I am not aversed to upgrading when it is of bennifit to me, and indeed this is I think the reason most people do not do so. If something ain't broke, why fix it. i also question your progress forward analogy for this reason, since something with a less friendly interface, with inconvenient programs that won't run much older software isn't forwarrd, it's simply different. My point was that instead of everyone being forced to upgrade and things being lost, or developers saying well tough luck since we're microsoft has forced us to upgrae we look at the reasons why! people do not, since contrary to your message, choice to continue using xp is not an irrational one or simply a question of liking one flavour of icecream over another. As to the xp box, well it is the same hear, however I do know where I can get a reconditioned machine of good quality. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark, Like so many things in life there are two sides to every argument, and I certainly can't dispute that the issues you raised are valid, but there is another side to the debate as well. It is true that on 64-bit versions of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 it is not possible to play older 16-bit Dos games without a third-party emulator like Dosbox which is unfortunately not accessible. However, the real problem is not Windows, but the newer 64-bit processors themselves as they can not execute 16-bit applications natively which is why Microsoft dropped 16-bit support in newer versions of Windows. The problem for developers like Microsoft is why should they spend time and money trying to support old 16-bit applications that is no longer supported by the hardware of today when there are free applications like Dosbox available? However, the problem with making Dosbox accessible is easier said than done. From what I know of Dosbox in order to make it accessible a developer would be better off rewriting the emulator completely from scratch. That is no minor undertaking, and are you and the rest of the V.I. community willing to pay for this to be done? The second issue you raised is that of Visual Basic 6 support. I frankly don't know what you expect us developers to do about that situation. In my opinion there is frankly nothing we can do about that situation directly. The only thing we can do as end users and developers is encourage those using Visual Basic to upgrade to something more modern as quickly as they can to avoid any more needless compatibility issues. Otherwise we are going to experience more issues like those with the BSC games and Windows 8 as newer versions of Windows become available. What I am about to say will sound harsh to many, but I think it needs to be said. As early as 2006 I remember Microsoft actively encouraging Visual Basic 6 developers to upgrade to VB .NET and to move away from DirectX 8 as time was running out. Most of the mainstream developers listened and chose to begin upgrading their software to VB .NET 2005. Here we are nearly 7 years later and the majority of audio game developers are still using it even though Visual Basic 6 was discontinued as far back as 2008. So any compatibility issues we have with games and Windows 8 are the fault of those audio game developers who have chosen for one reason or another not to adopt newer programming languages and tools. It is the audio game developers who are making it difficult to upgrade to say Windows 8 without worrying if game x will or won't be compatible not Microsoft. Its not like Microsoft didn't repeatedly warn VB developers what would happen years in advance. So let's begin by placing the blame where blame is due. Regarding the user interface it is definitely different in Windows 7 and in Windows 8 but there are workarounds for what you want. The Classic Shell application restores many of the Windows XP U.I. elements you are talking about including the classic Start Menu etc. So saying it is not possible to have listed menus and coherent folder structures, is absolutely false. If you were to install the Classic Shell add-on for Windows you would restore a semblance of the Windows XP look and feel to modern versions of Windows. Finally, while it is certainly your right to choose to upgrade or not upgrade let me say that it puts us game developers in an untenable situation. What I mean by that is sometimes it is not possible to support both older versions of Windows and newer versions of Windows at the same time. The way technology changes a developer has to make decisions weather to create games for a legacy operating system like XP or stick with whatever is current. There are technical considerations that you, the end user, do not have to make but we do. For example, consider virtual 3d audio. While DirectSound has virtual 3d support the fact of the matter is it isn't very good and it doesn't work properly on Windows 7 and Windows 8. The solution or fix for the problem is to switch to Microsoft's new DirectX audio API XAudio2 which works fine on Windows 7 and Windows 8. However, next year Microsoft will no longer be providing updates for Windows XP, including XAudio2 for XP, so as a game developer my options are limited. Either I build against an older version of XAudio2 which may be buggy to maintain XP support or I tell XP users they are simply out of luck. Either way I am between a rock and a hard place because next year it won't be possible to build against new versions of DirectX and support Windows XP at the same time. There is a similar situation going on with the .NET Framework. I believe Windows XP will support up to .NET 4 but no later. Since XP is about to be officially dropped that means the new applications written in Visual Studio 2012 using .NET 5 won't run on Windows XP, but are Windows 8 ready. Once again the developer is force to sacrifice newer APIs, libraries and tools to support XP or
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark, After reading your message, I'd like to know how much actual experience you have with windows seven. The only part of your message I can't completely contradict is the part about dos applications, and even those should run under a 32-bit version of the OS, if you really want them to. All vb6 games run under windows seven; I have yet to find an audiogame I couldn't run on my machine. As regards interface, it's simply a matter of getting used to a few things. There are some absolutely massive upgrades in windows seven, the search box especially. I've found that only once a month or so will I even need to open up my programs folder; all I need to do is type in a small portion of the file name in the search box and I'm ready to go. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi, Not only that, but the problem for people wanting to maintain XP after 2014 is hardware support. After next year most hardware manufacturers will no longer be providing drivers for sound cards, video cards, network cards, etc for XP. So if someone needs to replace a hardware component for any reason someone running XP will have to go to Ebay or a used computer parts store to get XP compatible hardware just because all hardware and software support for XP ends next year weather people like it or not. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Well were you live you might be able to get another xp box, but here in the states those are memories. The shops and stores sense win7 came out now support that op and won't even think of selling xp. Its just like computers you may have a good running box. However, progress makes that box out dated before the year is out. Progress always moves forward not backward in the case of xp. Even software creators see that and move with it those that don't no longer have saleable software. So you keep that xp box and when the new stuff won't work on it don't cry, because you chose that option not software providers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Tom and Trouble, All the more reason to have a dedicated, essentially frozen, machine for playing old games, etc. The less wear-and-tear you can put on it, using it just for the specific tasks it needs to be, the longer it is likely to last. Keeping it off the Internet most of the time would also be a good idea. On Apr 30, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Not only that, but the problem for people wanting to maintain XP after 2014 is hardware support. After next year most hardware manufacturers will no longer be providing drivers for sound cards, video cards, network cards, etc for XP. So if someone needs to replace a hardware component for any reason someone running XP will have to go to Ebay or a used computer parts store to get XP compatible hardware just because all hardware and software support for XP ends next year weather people like it or not. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Well were you live you might be able to get another xp box, but here in the states those are memories. The shops and stores sense win7 came out now support that op and won't even think of selling xp. Its just like computers you may have a good running box. However, progress makes that box out dated before the year is out. Progress always moves forward not backward in the case of xp. Even software creators see that and move with it those that don't no longer have saleable software. So you keep that xp box and when the new stuff won't work on it don't cry, because you chose that option not software providers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi, also, I'm not too sure where the idea that Microsoft has not been helping accessibility in more modern versions of windows. In fact, Windows 7, and more especially windows 8, are far more accessible than XP ever was. And their knew protocols, and APIs, that provide better accessibility now, then before. So again, not sure where this one came from. And I agree,, having an old machine with the older OS, is often the better option. Obviously, if you're fine with what you have now, then stay with it. However, XP will be losing support as of this time next year. So I would suggest, that you start looking at moving ahead now, before you're forced to. Mainly, because of the security risk you will be dealing with, when XP no longer is being provided the security updates. And in this modern world, where you are connected so much, to the Internet, it would be pointless to remain in a less secure OS. I myself, am seriously considering going with a Mac for my next computer, and dual booting windows on it. Best of both worlds. The only problem with that, is the cost of a Mac out right. Anyway, on with the games. LOL. Regards: Dallas On 30/04/2013, at 22:39, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: Hi Dark, My responses are throughout. *snip* 1: compatibility with dos applications. As a huge fan of text rpgs, I play not a few games with dos such as fallthru, and age of legends, yet thanks to microsoft that would not be possible on a 64 bit machine. For sighted users this isn't a problem since they can use the dosbox emulator, and indeed newer dos, or dos style applications are still being developed using it, noteably Eamon deluxe (and since there are over 270 Eamon games that is quite a lot just on it's own). If a developer created a screen reader friendly version of dosbox or a similar way to run 16 bit console window applications, it would mean that older games, which have been playable for the past 30 years would continue to be so for the blind community. This is something I know the developer of Eamon deluxe has been looking into and discussing with the dosbox dev team, but perhaps some assistance from a programmer with more knolidge of screen readers' interaction with windows would be of help, that is unless someone cannot create say a small application that outputs dos text to sapi or similar. *snip* First, there is a certain amount of irony that the first point on your list is essentially that you want to be able to cling to the past in order to move into the future. It is sort of like saying, thirty years ago, that you wouldn't use a CD player because it couldn't play your vinyl records. I use this analogy as someone who has a fair number of rare vinyl records which do not exist in modern formats. This doesn't keep me from having a CD player, or, these days, using iTunes. The vast, vast, vast majority of Windows users never upgrade their existing machine. They go buy a cheap new computer which happens to have the latest OS on it. When this occurs, rather than going through channels to keep using obsolete software, hang on to the old machine to play such games, and keep that machine in as good repair as possible, much as I have had to do with vinyl record players over the years. I still have my working Apple 2GS computer as well, specifically for the nostalgia playing the old games I had for it. I've had it for, likely, longer than many of the participants of this list have been alive, and it still works, because I've taken care of it. So, while your option of an accessible DOS emulator would be the ideal, it is something that is relatively easily worked around. *snip* 2: audio games created using vb6 and direct x. Microsoft have, as we've been told dropped vb6 support and messed about with many of their direct x components. with the number of accessible games being so small, it is a real shame when they cannot be run on newer machines due to lack of support for the components. Again, since windows xp existed as a viable os for close to 10 years and is still largely in use today, we're talking about a long period of time and not a few games, indeed a post last year on audiogames.net was from a 64 bit windows user who complained that the upgrade actually lost! them more than it gained. If I could be certain the dependencies to run games like classic pipe were still available in some sense for post xp windows, I'd be less concerned about upgrading my os. While I know vb6 is likely to continue as a viable option provided dependencies are installed, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone can still write games in it, I'm less certain regarding other components, especially with what I've heard of other games not working under later windows versions. *snip* This point is really just the same as your first point, with the same solutions available, be that virtual machines,
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hello there Yes and now they are pushing windows 8 how sickening, but if U have a old computer that runs xp there is always the code in the back of the computer that you can download xp and put that code in. aslong as you are not running 2 computers with the same code your good. I just got a very nasty bug 3 or 4 months ago that fried my pc. I bilte a new pc from ground up and downloaded xp to a thumbdrive, but after that I just put the old code in and it was as good as new. you just have to make shore that you have the proper xp version for the code. Like pro for pro and home for home, but that still doesn't solv the problom that mS is pushing there new junk on us and there is nothing wrong with there old stuff. bfn James -- From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:24 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Well were you live you might be able to get another xp box, but here in the states those are memories. The shops and stores sense win7 came out now support that op and won't even think of selling xp. Its just like computers you may have a good running box. However, progress makes that box out dated before the year is out. Progress always moves forward not backward in the case of xp. Even software creators see that and move with it those that don't no longer have saleable software. So you keep that xp box and when the new stuff won't work on it don't cry, because you chose that option not software providers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi, on top of all this, there is one simple thing to look at. Look at the main gaming industry. There are a lot of games out there that do not support anything less than Windows 7. So we aren't the first to see this happen. In fact, the audio games industry is being held back by the fact that we are being encouraged to keep supporting old OSs. So I think it's time that we look at the bigger picture of computing, and the capabilities that new OSs provide, and look at upgrading and what it would providers, rather than what it does not provide us! Regards: Dallas On 30/04/2013, at 22:50, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Like so many things in life there are two sides to every argument, and I certainly can't dispute that the issues you raised are valid, but there is another side to the debate as well. It is true that on 64-bit versions of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 it is not possible to play older 16-bit Dos games without a third-party emulator like Dosbox which is unfortunately not accessible. However, the real problem is not Windows, but the newer 64-bit processors themselves as they can not execute 16-bit applications natively which is why Microsoft dropped 16-bit support in newer versions of Windows. The problem for developers like Microsoft is why should they spend time and money trying to support old 16-bit applications that is no longer supported by the hardware of today when there are free applications like Dosbox available? However, the problem with making Dosbox accessible is easier said than done. From what I know of Dosbox in order to make it accessible a developer would be better off rewriting the emulator completely from scratch. That is no minor undertaking, and are you and the rest of the V.I. community willing to pay for this to be done? The second issue you raised is that of Visual Basic 6 support. I frankly don't know what you expect us developers to do about that situation. In my opinion there is frankly nothing we can do about that situation directly. The only thing we can do as end users and developers is encourage those using Visual Basic to upgrade to something more modern as quickly as they can to avoid any more needless compatibility issues. Otherwise we are going to experience more issues like those with the BSC games and Windows 8 as newer versions of Windows become available. What I am about to say will sound harsh to many, but I think it needs to be said. As early as 2006 I remember Microsoft actively encouraging Visual Basic 6 developers to upgrade to VB .NET and to move away from DirectX 8 as time was running out. Most of the mainstream developers listened and chose to begin upgrading their software to VB .NET 2005. Here we are nearly 7 years later and the majority of audio game developers are still using it even though Visual Basic 6 was discontinued as far back as 2008. So any compatibility issues we have with games and Windows 8 are the fault of those audio game developers who have chosen for one reason or another not to adopt newer programming languages and tools. It is the audio game developers who are making it difficult to upgrade to say Windows 8 without worrying if game x will or won't be compatible not Microsoft. Its not like Microsoft didn't repeatedly warn VB developers what would happen years in advance. So let's begin by placing the blame where blame is due. Regarding the user interface it is definitely different in Windows 7 and in Windows 8 but there are workarounds for what you want. The Classic Shell application restores many of the Windows XP U.I. elements you are talking about including the classic Start Menu etc. So saying it is not possible to have listed menus and coherent folder structures, is absolutely false. If you were to install the Classic Shell add-on for Windows you would restore a semblance of the Windows XP look and feel to modern versions of Windows. Finally, while it is certainly your right to choose to upgrade or not upgrade let me say that it puts us game developers in an untenable situation. What I mean by that is sometimes it is not possible to support both older versions of Windows and newer versions of Windows at the same time. The way technology changes a developer has to make decisions weather to create games for a legacy operating system like XP or stick with whatever is current. There are technical considerations that you, the end user, do not have to make but we do. For example, consider virtual 3d audio. While DirectSound has virtual 3d support the fact of the matter is it isn't very good and it doesn't work properly on Windows 7 and Windows 8. The solution or fix for the problem is to switch to Microsoft's new DirectX audio API XAudio2 which works fine on Windows 7 and Windows 8. However, next year Microsoft will no longer be providing updates for Windows XP, including XAudio2 for XP, so as a game developer my
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Josh and all, Snip The vast, vast, vast majority of Windows users never upgrade their existing machine. They go buy a cheap new computer which happens to have the latest OS on it. When this occurs, rather than going through channels to keep using obsolete software, hang on to the old machine to play such games, and keep that machine in as good repair as possible, much as I have had to do with vinyl record players over the years. End Snip Exactly. I've done that very thing myself many times and I think it is the most practical solution to the problem of upgrading from one technology to another. For example, when DVDs came out I did not immediately throw out all my VHS tapes. Instead what I did was buy a DVD player and slowly collect my favorite movies and shows on DVD. Once I had replaced all my VHS tapes with DVDs I got rid of the VHS tapes. I used both a VCR and DVD player for many years and I didn't consider it an all or nothing situation. This situation with XP is just as easy to resolve. If Dark or someone had a laptop running XP they could easily put it in a carrying case and store it in a closet when not using XP, but get it out when they want to play older games and run older applications while at the same time own a brand spanking new laptop with Windows 8 on it. Why not have the best of both worlds? Snip And, as far as Draconis goes, we are working to move our games forward to modern operating systems. End Snip Same here with USA Games. One of our goals right now is finding out what we have to do to make our games more compatible with Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8. Things like making our games work with User Account Control and XAudio2 are more valuable to us over the long term than maintaining backwards compatibility with XP. Snip At some point, you will be forced to upgrade. You can do it on your own terms and find solutions to these challenges yourself, or you can wait until circumstance makes it necessary, and have squandered the time you had to make the upgrade smoother. I suppose it comes down to where the tipping point for each individual will be. When does the future hold more promise than retreading the ground of the past. End Snip I am in full agreement. The people who dig there heals in and go kicking and screaming into the future would be better off trying to resolve problems now rather than waiting until circumstances forces the decision on a person. Progress stops for no man, and if someone stops to fight it progress will eventually run them over. Snip I agree that upgrading just to be able to say you have the latest and greatest is not a sound mindset. An upgrade should offer tangible benefits. If it doesn't, you're clearly using the wrong OS for you, and perhaps should consider alternatives. End Snip Agreed. I certainly don't believe in the idea that people should upgrade just for the sake of upgrading. There always should be some benefit to upgrading, and usually there are benefits that a person may or may not know about in advance. As long as someone has the mindset that there is absolutely nothing good about Windows 7, Windows 8, etc then they won't be able to see those benefits because they have already made their mind up to dislike it benefits or no benefits. Snip The above points you raise are less reasons than justifications, in my opinion. There are solutions, some of them reasonably simple, to both of them. End snip Yes, agreed. There are reasonably simple solutions to the problems Dark raised such as maintaining two computers instead of one, but I haven't heard anything that justifies his points. All I see is a bunch of reasons why he dislikes the new versions of Windows so much, and weather I agree with him or not that won't change the fact that no matter how much he likes or dislikes Windows 8 it is the present and XP is the past. Neither Microsoft or any other developer will continue to support it forever. Sooner or later all good things must come to an end. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] soundscape explorer query
hello all i just downloaded and unzipped the program. when i run it jaws says form1 dialog and no other stuff is heard and other sounds play. no voice speaks how do you do it? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi. one of my intrinsic problems with this upgrade business is to do with practical good and also practicality of how many computers one can actually own. i do not actually have the space for more than one desktop, plus laptops have a shorter life generally. Virtual xp is always a solution next to a main os, but how well that runs I'm not sure over all. As regards windows 7 generally however, one of my main issues with this debate is that programmers take a look at a new system and say wow, look at the specs, look at the hardware, support for this that and the other etc Myself, i don't give a monkey's rear how much ram a computer has, what programs it runs what processor it has etc, it's all a question of what can I do with it. This is also wy i cryticize post xp windows and microsoft's over all approach to interface generally, since frankly having used windows 7 on several machines I do not agree with dallas point, and while classic shell might be an option, well why should I move from an interface I'm comfortable with, that I can personally customize to one I must jigger with in order to work? and that's not just in the programs either. if there were hundreds of great new games which required windows 7, well I'd likely have a good reason to, but that is simply not the case, which is quite ironic given that I did make a similar switch from windows 98 to xp back in 2002 for precisely that reason. From a pure usability perspective, mac is probably a better option than post xp windows at the moment, however legacy support is a severe issue, particularly with developers who continue to essentially write for xp, and even more specifically when there are comparatively few audio games on mac. while I do appreciate the issues that developers have, at the same time there is an element of give and take needed I think, which is exactly why I suggested developers aide in this situation, eg, by writing a guide on virtual xp emulation with download for mac and windows 7, for trying to do something about dosbox and vb6 etc, since at least for some people sticking with xp it is a bit more than simple bloodymindedness, and if developers do indeed want more people to shift to newer os so that they can take advantage of all this stuff, maybe this is something that they can help with. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More Games
Hi Chris I also like to solve slide puzzles. Did you know that there is a slide puzzle for IOS??? Sluzzuls by Mochi Development can found in the app store. The game is FREE and fully accessible with voiceover. Donna Hello all thanks to L-Works, I have probably all of their games, both demo and free. I really like their free offering called Slide! I am in to puzzles you see. Slide is based on a slide puzzle. You can either have a 3 by 3 grid, a 4 by 4 grid, and a word grid. The object is to re-arrange the numbers or letters in their proper order, leavin the empty square at the bottom right. Love it! I of course like their offerings but that Slide is a brilliant idea for a game. Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dallas, Correct. One of the things Windows 8 brings to the table regarding accessibility is Microsoft Narrator is vastly improved over prior versions.Wile I wouldn't take it over something like NVDA it is far better than anything else Microsoft has provided before. Better screen review commands, and better Sapi voices as well. Some of the new Microsoft voices on Windows 8 are easily as good as the Vocalizer voices and they come free with the OS. I've used Microsoft David with NvDA and Narrator and it isn't too bad. Further more Microsoft has replaced MSAA with U.I. Automation which is a far better API than MSAA ever was. U.I. Automation is the way of the future and will revolutionize access on Windows 8 and beyond. As a result of technologies like U.I. Automation screen readers like Jaws and Window-Eyes no longer need off-screen models and video drivers to read the screen because they can get it from the Windows API directly. This will only aid not hinder access. Bottom line, the user interface has changed drastically in Windows 8 since Windows XP, but different is not the same as inaccessible. The statement that Microsoft is getting less accessible is just propaganda bandied about by people who are trying to justify not upgrading to Windows 8. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, also, I'm not too sure where the idea that Microsoft has not been helping accessibility in more modern versions of windows. In fact, Windows 7, and more especially windows 8, are far more accessible than XP ever was. And their knew protocols, and APIs, that provide better accessibility now, then before. So again, not sure where this one came from. And I agree,, having an old machine with the older OS, is often the better option. Obviously, if you're fine with what you have now, then stay with it. However, XP will be losing support as of this time next year. So I would suggest, that you start looking at moving ahead now, before you're forced to. Mainly, because of the security risk you will be dealing with, when XP no longer is being provided the security updates. And in this modern world, where you are connected so much, to the Internet, it would be pointless to remain in a less secure OS. I myself, am seriously considering going with a Mac for my next computer, and dual booting windows on it. Best of both worlds. The only problem with that, is the cost of a Mac out right. Anyway, on with the games. LOL. Regards: Dallas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Windows 8 and games
Do anybody know what games work under Windows 8, particularly any of the classic ones? Not interested in things like Rs Games and the Playroom at the moment. Cheers! -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More Games
Unfortunately the game is not free here in the Uk app store. I got it anyway as per the comment it's accessible. It's £1.49 in the Uk app store. Cheers! And lol! What a daft title for a game! Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com On 30/04/2013 15:25, Donna wrote: Hi Chris I also like to solve slide puzzles. Did you know that there is a slide puzzle for IOS??? Sluzzuls by Mochi Development can found in the app store. The game is FREE and fully accessible with voiceover. Donna Hello all thanks to L-Works, I have probably all of their games, both demo and free. I really like their free offering called Slide! I am in to puzzles you see. Slide is based on a slide puzzle. You can either have a 3 by 3 grid, a 4 by 4 grid, and a word grid. The object is to re-arrange the numbers or letters in their proper order, leavin the empty square at the bottom right. Love it! I of course like their offerings but that Slide is a brilliant idea for a game. Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows
There are two sides to every coin, and the other one is, for the most part, a lack of money. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows Hi Josh, Are you serious? People are upset you aren't supporting Windows 98. The operating system is like 15 years old and hasn't been supported by anyone since 2006 or so. Some people seriously need to get their heads out of their backsides and realize that we, game developers, can't afford to support something that old forever. Cheers! On 4/29/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: Glad you have it working, Kelly. On an aside, we are not using Java for the audio player, just HTML. There is a problem with some Firefox configurations, and with old versions of Internet Explorer, since IE is horrible about standards and keeping up with the times. We're working on fixing the Firefox issue, but not much we can do for old versions of IE. The reason that many places don't use MP3 downloads much any more is because, for most, they are inconvenient. I, personally, hate sites that still make me download an MP3 that I just want to listen to in the browser. Imagine if YouTube did this for videos! The VI community, in general, is one of the last groups to move, fighting all along the way, with technology as it changes. This is a partial reason why we see issues like the recent BSC situation with games that become obsolete. At some point, we have to draw a line in the sand and say, we just can't support those who choose to lag behind. That being said, we're doing everything we can to support as wide a group as possible. We wanted to drop XP support with the new game engine, but decided not to for now. However, we won't hang on to it forever. We've gotten emails from those upset we're not supporting Windows 98 anymore. We just can't. We'll continue to do our best to make as many gamers happy as we can. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Tom and all, I agree entirely, which is why, in my previous note, I specified that the mess isn't just for screen reader users. Windows 8 is widely getting slammed by users because it is a mess, but that has nothing to do with the accessibility. Microsoft is improving with access, even if it is extremely late to the party. On Apr 30, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dallas, Correct. One of the things Windows 8 brings to the table regarding accessibility is Microsoft Narrator is vastly improved over prior versions.Wile I wouldn't take it over something like NVDA it is far better than anything else Microsoft has provided before. Better screen review commands, and better Sapi voices as well. Some of the new Microsoft voices on Windows 8 are easily as good as the Vocalizer voices and they come free with the OS. I've used Microsoft David with NvDA and Narrator and it isn't too bad. Further more Microsoft has replaced MSAA with U.I. Automation which is a far better API than MSAA ever was. U.I. Automation is the way of the future and will revolutionize access on Windows 8 and beyond. As a result of technologies like U.I. Automation screen readers like Jaws and Window-Eyes no longer need off-screen models and video drivers to read the screen because they can get it from the Windows API directly. This will only aid not hinder access. Bottom line, the user interface has changed drastically in Windows 8 since Windows XP, but different is not the same as inaccessible. The statement that Microsoft is getting less accessible is just propaganda bandied about by people who are trying to justify not upgrading to Windows 8. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, also, I'm not too sure where the idea that Microsoft has not been helping accessibility in more modern versions of windows. In fact, Windows 7, and more especially windows 8, are far more accessible than XP ever was. And their knew protocols, and APIs, that provide better accessibility now, then before. So again, not sure where this one came from. And I agree,, having an old machine with the older OS, is often the better option. Obviously, if you're fine with what you have now, then stay with it. However, XP will be losing support as of this time next year. So I would suggest, that you start looking at moving ahead now, before you're forced to. Mainly, because of the security risk you will be dealing with, when XP no longer is being provided the security updates. And in this modern world, where you are connected so much, to the Internet, it would be pointless to remain in a less secure OS. I myself, am seriously considering going with a Mac for my next computer, and dual booting windows on it. Best of both worlds. The only problem with that, is the cost of a Mac out right. Anyway, on with the games. LOL. Regards: Dallas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Problem registering Ten Pin Alley, can anyone duplicate?
Here you go. http://help.dracoent.com/index.php?a=add HTH Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Apr 28, 2013, at 2:53 AM, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris i dont know where there is any way to send them any emails ,i am getting to the point i will just delete the copy that i have and count it as loss. your friend lee In a message dated 4/28/2013 5:48:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, christopher...@gmail.com writes: Lee please keep at it with Draconis. They are nothing but very helpful to me and I'm sure they will be to you. Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com On 28/04/2013 10:38, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris since then i paid for a new ten pin alley but i did not get any registeration info your friend lee In a message dated 4/27/2013 6:23:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, i...@dracoent.com writes: Hi Lee, Actually, you recently wrote to us because you lost your key. We do not replace registration keys anymore. We ask users in their registration email to please backup their registration information to a safe place. We were getting absolutely swamped with replacement key requests, and had to adopt that policy, since our older titles were never hardware locked. Sorry for the inconvenience. On Apr 27, 2013, at 5:46 PM, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris i ordered the game but i did not get the registration info . your friendlee In a message dated 4/27/2013 4:31:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, christopher...@gmail.com writes: Good evening all. I am not asking for help, since I am on to it with Draconis, but can anyone duplicate the following. 1. Order yourself the registration information for Ten Pin Alley. 2. Once you have received the registration information, copy exactly what is given, then paste it into the appropriate fields in the program. 3. At my end, it just will not work. I have heard of problems running this game under Windows Xp, but I am using Windows 7 64 bit so that shouldn't matter. Any responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any
[Audyssey] Sluzzuls
Good afternoon all. Just bought this gameSluzzuls in the Uk app store. Now are you sure it's the right one? Asking as all I see on the screen is a, a, a, b, b, b, c, c, c, etc etc. Doesn't seem as obvious as L-Works' Slide game. Any responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
As for having to upgrade to a newer OS because the older ones aren't being supported, shouldn't the game developers use the tools of the trade that their customers can use? If you decide to create software that the newer systems can run but older systems cannot, and your customers are still using the older OS, aren't you shooting yourself in the foot? I don't follow the logic that dictates that users must upgrade to a less user friendly OS that won't run the software you have been accumulating because it is not being supported by the developers. It makes more sense to me that the developers should not be the determining factors as to what is produced for the end user. The end user should be the one to determine what is produced. If the majority of blind people cannot afford to upgrade their machines every few years, and the upgrades won't be easily accessible without major modifications and headaches, we should not have to be forced to make that upgrade, and developers should offer what the end user can use. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi Dark, Like so many things in life there are two sides to every argument, and I certainly can't dispute that the issues you raised are valid, but there is another side to the debate as well. It is true that on 64-bit versions of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 it is not possible to play older 16-bit Dos games without a third-party emulator like Dosbox which is unfortunately not accessible. However, the real problem is not Windows, but the newer 64-bit processors themselves as they can not execute 16-bit applications natively which is why Microsoft dropped 16-bit support in newer versions of Windows. The problem for developers like Microsoft is why should they spend time and money trying to support old 16-bit applications that is no longer supported by the hardware of today when there are free applications like Dosbox available? However, the problem with making Dosbox accessible is easier said than done. From what I know of Dosbox in order to make it accessible a developer would be better off rewriting the emulator completely from scratch. That is no minor undertaking, and are you and the rest of the V.I. community willing to pay for this to be done? The second issue you raised is that of Visual Basic 6 support. I frankly don't know what you expect us developers to do about that situation. In my opinion there is frankly nothing we can do about that situation directly. The only thing we can do as end users and developers is encourage those using Visual Basic to upgrade to something more modern as quickly as they can to avoid any more needless compatibility issues. Otherwise we are going to experience more issues like those with the BSC games and Windows 8 as newer versions of Windows become available. What I am about to say will sound harsh to many, but I think it needs to be said. As early as 2006 I remember Microsoft actively encouraging Visual Basic 6 developers to upgrade to VB .NET and to move away from DirectX 8 as time was running out. Most of the mainstream developers listened and chose to begin upgrading their software to VB .NET 2005. Here we are nearly 7 years later and the majority of audio game developers are still using it even though Visual Basic 6 was discontinued as far back as 2008. So any compatibility issues we have with games and Windows 8 are the fault of those audio game developers who have chosen for one reason or another not to adopt newer programming languages and tools. It is the audio game developers who are making it difficult to upgrade to say Windows 8 without worrying if game x will or won't be compatible not Microsoft. Its not like Microsoft didn't repeatedly warn VB developers what would happen years in advance. So let's begin by placing the blame where blame is due. Regarding the user interface it is definitely different in Windows 7 and in Windows 8 but there are workarounds for what you want. The Classic Shell application restores many of the Windows XP U.I. elements you are talking about including the classic Start Menu etc. So saying it is not possible to have listed menus and coherent folder structures, is absolutely false. If you were to install the Classic Shell add-on for Windows you would restore a semblance of the Windows XP look and feel to modern versions of Windows. Finally, while it is certainly your right to choose to upgrade or not upgrade let me say that it puts us game developers in an untenable situation. What I mean by that is sometimes it is not possible to support both older versions of Windows and newer versions of Windows at the same time. The way technology changes a developer has to make decisions weather to
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
What if you're not sure of the name of what you're looking for? Is there a way to hunt for something you would recognize when you find it? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi Dark, After reading your message, I'd like to know how much actual experience you have with windows seven. The only part of your message I can't completely contradict is the part about dos applications, and even those should run under a 32-bit version of the OS, if you really want them to. All vb6 games run under windows seven; I have yet to find an audiogame I couldn't run on my machine. As regards interface, it's simply a matter of getting used to a few things. There are some absolutely massive upgrades in windows seven, the search box especially. I've found that only once a month or so will I even need to open up my programs folder; all I need to do is type in a small portion of the file name in the search box and I'm ready to go. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Isn't this exactly why older hardware should be supported? People still use them. Supply what the people want rather than the other way around. If l7 out of 10 of my customers use older machines, I would produce stuff they can use. To me, saying that we are moving on and it is up to you as to whether you follow the trends is counterproductive when dealing with visually impaired customers based on their very valid reasons for not wanting to upgrade. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi, Not only that, but the problem for people wanting to maintain XP after 2014 is hardware support. After next year most hardware manufacturers will no longer be providing drivers for sound cards, video cards, network cards, etc for XP. So if someone needs to replace a hardware component for any reason someone running XP will have to go to Ebay or a used computer parts store to get XP compatible hardware just because all hardware and software support for XP ends next year weather people like it or not. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Well were you live you might be able to get another xp box, but here in the states those are memories. The shops and stores sense win7 came out now support that op and won't even think of selling xp. Its just like computers you may have a good running box. However, progress makes that box out dated before the year is out. Progress always moves forward not backward in the case of xp. Even software creators see that and move with it those that don't no longer have saleable software. So you keep that xp box and when the new stuff won't work on it don't cry, because you chose that option not software providers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Tom. My statement was primarily regarding windows 7. I've had no experiences with 8 so haven't drawn a judgement, indeed I was tempted to skip windows 7 entirely since what I've tried of the os I completely disliked. however, it is the layout and lack of abilities to customize that irritate me specificaly. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Charles.e i wouldnt' go that far, I do think it's a two sided problem ccombined with lack of support for older systems and microsoft's bad approach to ui's in post xp windows (or at least in 7), however I do get a little tired of developers constantly saying well microsoft is doing this that and the other and the new stuff is better so we must all upgrade to make better games Fundimentally, if 7 had the same ui as xp and same functionality, I'd upgrade like a shott and the same goes for others. Windows 8 I don't have an opinion on yet since on the one hand I don't like lack of customization in the Ui, on the other I do appreciate that microsoft are finally! doing something decent about access at the basic level, though how well this works in practice when we get down to the nuts and bolts I can't say having not ried a windows 8 system yet. beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
If it ain't broke, why fix it until it is broken? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: James Bartlett jab8...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hello there Yes and now they are pushing windows 8 how sickening, but if U have a old computer that runs xp there is always the code in the back of the computer that you can download xp and put that code in. aslong as you are not running 2 computers with the same code your good. I just got a very nasty bug 3 or 4 months ago that fried my pc. I bilte a new pc from ground up and downloaded xp to a thumbdrive, but after that I just put the old code in and it was as good as new. you just have to make shore that you have the proper xp version for the code. Like pro for pro and home for home, but that still doesn't solv the problom that mS is pushing there new junk on us and there is nothing wrong with there old stuff. bfn James -- From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:24 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Well were you live you might be able to get another xp box, but here in the states those are memories. The shops and stores sense win7 came out now support that op and won't even think of selling xp. Its just like computers you may have a good running box. However, progress makes that box out dated before the year is out. Progress always moves forward not backward in the case of xp. Even software creators see that and move with it those that don't no longer have saleable software. So you keep that xp box and when the new stuff won't work on it don't cry, because you chose that option not software providers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi charlse. i do agree, particularly since a lot of the changes in windows 7 are cosmetic at best (heck, nobody blind or sighted likes the ui either but microsoft are forcing people to use it since you can't buy a new computer without). The same goes for other programs and products too, for example microsoft outlook express is by far my favourite male client since it does what I want and no more. I've tried windows messenger and indeed thunderbird on windwos 77, but both had the practice of chuck as much at the screen as possible, so that a bazillion functions and controls were all over the place, indeed this seems to be a regular thing with all modern ui's, instead of having different functions in different windows, menues and the like that could be open, stuff is just chucked everywhere regardless. This works on a tablet with a touch screen because you have the spacial relations to go on, though even so I do miss just pressing one letter to instantly find something, however without! a touch screen that sort of thing is murder, or at least it seemed that way given the several hours I spent with a win7 machine trying to work the blooody thing out and constantly having stuff change position and muck about on me. yes, I could get used to it, but why should I if there aren't any actual new functions on the computer that would help me do what I do better? Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark, Snip Virtual XP is always a solution next to a main os, but how well that runs I'm not sure over all. End Snip Well, unfortunately that all depends on how much CPU power and memory you have to spare for a secondary OS. Generally running XP in a virtual machine will runn a bit slower than natively and that means games may not perform as well on that virtual machine. I have heard of cases where input and graphics lag so it can be problematic. Still, if you really can't afford the space for a secondary machine then its about the best you can do when it comes to running older software on a modern PC. Snip As regards windows 7 generally however, one of my main issues with this debate is that programmers take a look at a new system and say wow, look at the specs, look at the hardware, support for this that and the other etc End Snip Maybe some programmers look at it that way, but many professional developers, including myself, do not look at new versions of Windows that way. For most people I know it is viewed from the perspective of sustained compatibility. What do we have to do in order to make sure what we write today will still be compatible on the next generation OS? What libraries will be removed, deprecated, or replaced on the new version of Windows? What features can we use to make our software better for new customers? The point I am getting at is its not about looking at a new OS and looking strictly at specs, hardware, or anything like that. While those things will certainly influence a developers decisions it isn't the whole story. There is more to it than you indicate in your message. Snip Well why should I move from an interface I'm comfortable with, that I can personally customize to one I must jigger with in order to work? End Snip Well, how long do you think Windows XP is going to last? Do you see yourself 30 years from now still running a computer made in 2005 with Windows XP on it? The point Dallas and I have been making is that weather you like the new interface or not it doesn't matter in the long run. We can argue back and forth until the end of time, but it won't change a thing. Sooner or later the computers you have will break down, parts will be hard to obtain, and new copies of XP will not be available. Weather that day comes ten, fifteen, or twenty years down the road you will probably end up buying anew computer running something other than XP and you'll just have to accept the new interface regardless if you like it or not. Snip while I do appreciate the issues that developers have, at the same time there is an element of give and take needed I think, which is exactly why I suggested developers aide in this situation, eg, by writing a guide on virtual xp emulation with download for mac and windows 7, for trying to do something about dosbox and vb6 etc, since at least for some people sticking with xp it is a bit more than simple bloodymindedness, and if developers do indeed want more people to shift to newer os so that they can take advantage of all this stuff, maybe this is something that they can help with. End Snip Well, to be fair there is already a lot of documentation and tutorials on how to do this already. VMWare the company that produces VMWare Player, Fusion, and Workstation already have indepth guides on setting up and running virtual machines. I don't know that any more documentation is necessary and if so what we could add to what is already there. Plus while it is not strictly legal it is possible to download ready made virtual machines of XP and all you need do is extract them, run VMWare Player, and tell it to boot the new virtual machine you just installed. When you here the XP start sound you can then install Jaws, MVDA, Supernova, or whatever screen reader you want. So its not as complex as you might think. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Why shouldn't it be the other way around? Support what is used by the users rather than use what isn't supported and then try to support what is used? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi, on top of all this, there is one simple thing to look at. Look at the main gaming industry. There are a lot of games out there that do not support anything less than Windows 7. So we aren't the first to see this happen. In fact, the audio games industry is being held back by the fact that we are being encouraged to keep supporting old OSs. So I think it's time that we look at the bigger picture of computing, and the capabilities that new OSs provide, and look at upgrading and what it would providers, rather than what it does not provide us! Regards: Dallas On 30/04/2013, at 22:50, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Like so many things in life there are two sides to every argument, and I certainly can't dispute that the issues you raised are valid, but there is another side to the debate as well. It is true that on 64-bit versions of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 it is not possible to play older 16-bit Dos games without a third-party emulator like Dosbox which is unfortunately not accessible. However, the real problem is not Windows, but the newer 64-bit processors themselves as they can not execute 16-bit applications natively which is why Microsoft dropped 16-bit support in newer versions of Windows. The problem for developers like Microsoft is why should they spend time and money trying to support old 16-bit applications that is no longer supported by the hardware of today when there are free applications like Dosbox available? However, the problem with making Dosbox accessible is easier said than done. From what I know of Dosbox in order to make it accessible a developer would be better off rewriting the emulator completely from scratch. That is no minor undertaking, and are you and the rest of the V.I. community willing to pay for this to be done? The second issue you raised is that of Visual Basic 6 support. I frankly don't know what you expect us developers to do about that situation. In my opinion there is frankly nothing we can do about that situation directly. The only thing we can do as end users and developers is encourage those using Visual Basic to upgrade to something more modern as quickly as they can to avoid any more needless compatibility issues. Otherwise we are going to experience more issues like those with the BSC games and Windows 8 as newer versions of Windows become available. What I am about to say will sound harsh to many, but I think it needs to be said. As early as 2006 I remember Microsoft actively encouraging Visual Basic 6 developers to upgrade to VB .NET and to move away from DirectX 8 as time was running out. Most of the mainstream developers listened and chose to begin upgrading their software to VB .NET 2005. Here we are nearly 7 years later and the majority of audio game developers are still using it even though Visual Basic 6 was discontinued as far back as 2008. So any compatibility issues we have with games and Windows 8 are the fault of those audio game developers who have chosen for one reason or another not to adopt newer programming languages and tools. It is the audio game developers who are making it difficult to upgrade to say Windows 8 without worrying if game x will or won't be compatible not Microsoft. Its not like Microsoft didn't repeatedly warn VB developers what would happen years in advance. So let's begin by placing the blame where blame is due. Regarding the user interface it is definitely different in Windows 7 and in Windows 8 but there are workarounds for what you want. The Classic Shell application restores many of the Windows XP U.I. elements you are talking about including the classic Start Menu etc. So saying it is not possible to have listed menus and coherent folder structures, is absolutely false. If you were to install the Classic Shell add-on for Windows you would restore a semblance of the Windows XP look and feel to modern versions of Windows. Finally, while it is certainly your right to choose to upgrade or not upgrade let me say that it puts us game developers in an untenable situation. What I mean by that is sometimes it is not possible to support both older versions of Windows and newer versions of Windows at the same time. The way technology changes a developer has to make decisions weather to create games for a legacy operating system like XP or stick with whatever is current. There are technical considerations that you, the end user, do not have to make but we do. For example, consider virtual 3d audio. While DirectSound has
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark, Responses throughout again. *snip* one of my intrinsic problems with this upgrade business is to do with practical good and also practicality of how many computers one can actually own. i do not actually have the space for more than one desktop, plus laptops have a shorter life generally. Virtual xp is always a solution next to a main os, but how well that runs I'm not sure over all. *snip* These days, with SSD's and the like, laptops have comparable life-spans to desktops. And, since several options proposed do *not* involve having multiple machines, I fail to see the problem here, either. *snip* As regards windows 7 generally however, one of my main issues with this debate is that programmers take a look at a new system and say wow, look at the specs, look at the hardware, support for this that and the other etc Myself, i don't give a monkey's rear how much ram a computer has, what programs it runs what processor it has etc, it's all a question of what can I do with it. This is also wy i cryticize post xp windows and microsoft's over all approach to interface generally, since frankly having used windows 7 on several machines I do not agree with dallas point, and while classic shell might be an option, well why should I move from an interface I'm comfortable with, that I can personally customize to one I must jigger with in order to work? and that's not just in the programs either. *snip* No one here has said anything about RAM or any other hardware specs, so that argument is coming out of left field. Generally speaking, i don't care that much about hardware specs either. It is the usability of the machine that is the main concern. People have given you quite a few good reasons to upgrade in this thread, you just aren't listening, because your mind is already made up, and you aren't really considering other possible scenarios. If in a couple of years you're still running XP and a newly discovered security exploit leaves you high and dry, then that is the risk you are choosing to take. If you still go out and purchase another XP machine after that, then you've got no one to blame but yourself. *snip* if there were hundreds of great new games which required windows 7, well I'd likely have a good reason to, but that is simply not the case, which is quite ironic given that I did make a similar switch from windows 98 to xp back in 2002 for precisely that reason. *snip* Back then, there wasn't a contingency of users trying to keep developers from moving on to XP, hence you were forced to change. I propose developers do this again to help move things along. *grin* *snip* From a pure usability perspective, mac is probably a better option than post xp windows at the moment, however legacy support is a severe issue, particularly with developers who continue to essentially write for xp, and even more specifically when there are comparatively few audio games on mac. *snip* Since on a Mac you can have a native install of XP or any other version of Windows you like since, I fail to understand this argument. By having a Mac with a *native* install of XP, or Win7, or whatever you want, you have the best of both worlds in a machine that you will probably be able to use for years and years to come. A modern OS for debs who are moving forward, and an XP install for your old titles. *snip* while I do appreciate the issues that developers have, at the same time there is an element of give and take needed I think, which is exactly why I suggested developers aide in this situation, eg, by writing a guide on virtual xp emulation with download for mac and windows 7, for trying to do something about dosbox and vb6 etc, since at least for some people sticking with xp it is a bit more than simple bloodymindedness, and if developers do indeed want more people to shift to newer os so that they can take advantage of all this stuff, maybe this is something that they can help with. *snip* As I said, for our part, we're moving our games forward to modern OS's. I think asking developers to give up what they are working on to solve your problems is a bit much, especially when there are simpler solutions already available than what you are proposing be done. Windows 7 with a classic shell, XP on a dual boot system, Mac/Windows dual boot system, etc. Many of your arguments are based on incorrect or long out-of-date assumptions, much like your assertion in previous discussions about iTunes music, etc. You have several folks here explaining to you that things don't need to be the doom and gloom you say, and giving you several possible options to the problems you raise. If sticking with XP is what you want, by all means stick with it, but understand that you can't rely on others to bail you out if that decision backfires…whether that means that you start missing out on games that won't run on XP, your security is compromised by a new
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Tom. I completely agree that in 10, 20 years down the line etc things will change, however that is not the current decision. When I considder do I change from xp to a newer os, I way up the costs and bennifits. It is entirely possible that windows 8 (with a touch screen), windows 9, mac os etc will have sufficient bennifits in terms of new and interesting stuff to do on it for me to want to upgrade, heck I've already bought an Iphone just for that reason. Equally however one thing I do notice betwene pc and console games is that while mainstream console games are heavily supported on newer systems, indeed I hear of ac ompletely retro console under developement, so that if my snes ever gave up the ghost I wouldn't lose my games, the same is simply not true for pc titles which is why legacy support is such an important factor. Fundamentally, if microsoft did! do their job properly and support all their old libraries on newer versions of windows, just as windows right up to xp had ful dos support meaning that you could run a peace of software written in the late 70's right up to now, we would not be having this conversation since even if there were! newer games that only ran on newer windows you wouldn't be asking users to give up what games they had already in addition to accepting microsoft's silly interface. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Charles, When it comes to hardware manufacturers they are looking at it from the perspective of PC builders and manufacturers like Del, HP, Gateway, etc. Those companies are building new PCs with Windows 7 and Windows 8 on them so that is where the market is for hardware manufacturers. Trying to sustain backwards compatibility with XP wouldn't be in their best interests long term. What I mean by that is it all comes down to money. Del, HP, Gateway, Toshiba,etc make their money buy selling new computers. The hardware manufacturers Intel, AMD, Asuse, ATI, and so on make their money by selling parts to the PC builders. Microsoft as the largest software manufacturer in the world also insures their OS is designed for the new hardware rather than making it backwards compatible with systems older than five years or so. Neither group has any interest or desire to insure your five or ten year old machine can be upgraded because everyone loses money from the hardware manufacturers, the software providers, and the PC builders on down the line. Put another way if 7 out of every 10 customers have XP then the goal of a PC manufacturer like Del and a software developer like Microsoft is to find a way to get as many of those people to upgrade to the latest hardware and software for sale. One way to do that is by simply stopping all support for the prior OS, and stop making parts for it. Sooner or later the reluctant customer has a choice to upgrade or do without. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Isn't this exactly why older hardware should be supported? People still use them. Supply what the people want rather than the other way around. If l7 out of 10 of my customers use older machines, I would produce stuff they can use. To me, saying that we are moving on and it is up to you as to whether you follow the trends is counterproductive when dealing with visually impaired customers based on their very valid reasons for not wanting to upgrade. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi josh. I never said I would not! upgrade, only that I had looked at the pros and cons and decided against it. Remember, my comments about the interface in windows 7 do not just reflect the main start menue and windows explorer, but also programs like outlook express, microsoft office etc, since in windows 7 all of those things change. Also bare in mind these are not based upon unwarrented assumptions, but on several hours spen looking around a number of machines running windows 7. It is true I have not yet tried windows 8, so my comments are mostly directed at windows 7 in particular. as far as virtual machines go, this is precisely why I suggest! people put out more information. for a none programmer, running a virtual machine is not such a simple matter at all, aprticularly without vision, and though I have red articals on the subject nothing has looked symple particularly when you cannot read the windows boot screen etc, hence my original suggestion. as to creating post xp games, well that would give a reason to upgrade, though bare in mind there are so many negatives with windows 7 there would need to be a lot of extremely good games to count the balance, as indeed there are currently on Iphone. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Charles, The biggest reason for this is the future. Look what has happened to BSC games. XP has far more years behind than ahead. We can't afford to make games that might, at best, have only 2 or 3 years of a life span. And, at present, we are in a weird transition time. We have roughly equal numbers of Win7 and Win XP users at the moment, with XP only a very slight advantage, judging by the visitor stats to the Draconis website. If we focus on XP, we're compromising the experience for users of new versions of Windows, in order to support users who can only realistically continue using XP for a very short time to come, comparatively speaking. The only logical thing to do is support as much as we can, with a focus on the newer systems, which eventually everyone will be using like it or not. Otherwise, we're pouring our effort into something that, in just a few years, will be useless. Draconis, at least, is trying to avoid the fate BSC titles now face. Microsoft could have made this transition smoother for developers and users alike, but didn't . We're all muddling through. On Apr 30, 2013, at 12:28 PM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Why shouldn't it be the other way around? Support what is used by the users rather than use what isn't supported and then try to support what is used? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi, on top of all this, there is one simple thing to look at. Look at the main gaming industry. There are a lot of games out there that do not support anything less than Windows 7. So we aren't the first to see this happen. In fact, the audio games industry is being held back by the fact that we are being encouraged to keep supporting old OSs. So I think it's time that we look at the bigger picture of computing, and the capabilities that new OSs provide, and look at upgrading and what it would providers, rather than what it does not provide us! Regards: Dallas On 30/04/2013, at 22:50, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Like so many things in life there are two sides to every argument, and I certainly can't dispute that the issues you raised are valid, but there is another side to the debate as well. It is true that on 64-bit versions of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 it is not possible to play older 16-bit Dos games without a third-party emulator like Dosbox which is unfortunately not accessible. However, the real problem is not Windows, but the newer 64-bit processors themselves as they can not execute 16-bit applications natively which is why Microsoft dropped 16-bit support in newer versions of Windows. The problem for developers like Microsoft is why should they spend time and money trying to support old 16-bit applications that is no longer supported by the hardware of today when there are free applications like Dosbox available? However, the problem with making Dosbox accessible is easier said than done. From what I know of Dosbox in order to make it accessible a developer would be better off rewriting the emulator completely from scratch. That is no minor undertaking, and are you and the rest of the V.I. community willing to pay for this to be done? The second issue you raised is that of Visual Basic 6 support. I frankly don't know what you expect us developers to do about that situation. In my opinion there is frankly nothing we can do about that situation directly. The only thing we can do as end users and developers is encourage those using Visual Basic to upgrade to something more modern as quickly as they can to avoid any more needless compatibility issues. Otherwise we are going to experience more issues like those with the BSC games and Windows 8 as newer versions of Windows become available. What I am about to say will sound harsh to many, but I think it needs to be said. As early as 2006 I remember Microsoft actively encouraging Visual Basic 6 developers to upgrade to VB .NET and to move away from DirectX 8 as time was running out. Most of the mainstream developers listened and chose to begin upgrading their software to VB .NET 2005. Here we are nearly 7 years later and the majority of audio game developers are still using it even though Visual Basic 6 was discontinued as far back as 2008. So any compatibility issues we have with games and Windows 8 are the fault of those audio game developers who have chosen for one reason or another not to adopt newer programming languages and tools. It is the audio game developers who are making it difficult to upgrade to say Windows 8 without worrying if game x will or won't be compatible not Microsoft. Its not like Microsoft didn't
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Which is also why there needs to be better reasons to stop using xp than currently, aprticularly given the buggered interface and lack of customization. Frankly microsoft need shooting over that one saying well you get what we give and like it rather than giving people choices about what they want in a new os. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Well, as Tom said, and I eluded to, there isn't really much to add. The process for installing a VM, at least on Mac, is extremely simple for anyone. It literally consists of these steps: 1. Install the VMWare Fusion app, which is 100% accessible. 2. Insert a Windows XP install disc and click to create a new VM. 3. Follow the prompts and type in the key for the Windows XP disc. 4. VMWare does all of the inaccessible Windows installation screens for you, so you're done. install your screen reader and use Windows. That's literally all there is to it. I've actually done this several times already. On Apr 30, 2013, at 12:46 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi josh. I never said I would not! upgrade, only that I had looked at the pros and cons and decided against it. Remember, my comments about the interface in windows 7 do not just reflect the main start menue and windows explorer, but also programs like outlook express, microsoft office etc, since in windows 7 all of those things change. Also bare in mind these are not based upon unwarrented assumptions, but on several hours spen looking around a number of machines running windows 7. It is true I have not yet tried windows 8, so my comments are mostly directed at windows 7 in particular. as far as virtual machines go, this is precisely why I suggest! people put out more information. for a none programmer, running a virtual machine is not such a simple matter at all, aprticularly without vision, and though I have red articals on the subject nothing has looked symple particularly when you cannot read the windows boot screen etc, hence my original suggestion. as to creating post xp games, well that would give a reason to upgrade, though bare in mind there are so many negatives with windows 7 there would need to be a lot of extremely good games to count the balance, as indeed there are currently on Iphone. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
The rub is that, unlike the majority of sighted, and employed, computer users, the visually impaired, for the most part, are unemployed, and don't have the money to go out and buy a new machine that is up to today's standards. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi Josh and all, Snip The vast, vast, vast majority of Windows users never upgrade their existing machine. They go buy a cheap new computer which happens to have the latest OS on it. When this occurs, rather than going through channels to keep using obsolete software, hang on to the old machine to play such games, and keep that machine in as good repair as possible, much as I have had to do with vinyl record players over the years. End Snip Exactly. I've done that very thing myself many times and I think it is the most practical solution to the problem of upgrading from one technology to another. For example, when DVDs came out I did not immediately throw out all my VHS tapes. Instead what I did was buy a DVD player and slowly collect my favorite movies and shows on DVD. Once I had replaced all my VHS tapes with DVDs I got rid of the VHS tapes. I used both a VCR and DVD player for many years and I didn't consider it an all or nothing situation. This situation with XP is just as easy to resolve. If Dark or someone had a laptop running XP they could easily put it in a carrying case and store it in a closet when not using XP, but get it out when they want to play older games and run older applications while at the same time own a brand spanking new laptop with Windows 8 on it. Why not have the best of both worlds? Snip And, as far as Draconis goes, we are working to move our games forward to modern operating systems. End Snip Same here with USA Games. One of our goals right now is finding out what we have to do to make our games more compatible with Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8. Things like making our games work with User Account Control and XAudio2 are more valuable to us over the long term than maintaining backwards compatibility with XP. Snip At some point, you will be forced to upgrade. You can do it on your own terms and find solutions to these challenges yourself, or you can wait until circumstance makes it necessary, and have squandered the time you had to make the upgrade smoother. I suppose it comes down to where the tipping point for each individual will be. When does the future hold more promise than retreading the ground of the past. End Snip I am in full agreement. The people who dig there heals in and go kicking and screaming into the future would be better off trying to resolve problems now rather than waiting until circumstances forces the decision on a person. Progress stops for no man, and if someone stops to fight it progress will eventually run them over. Snip I agree that upgrading just to be able to say you have the latest and greatest is not a sound mindset. An upgrade should offer tangible benefits. If it doesn't, you're clearly using the wrong OS for you, and perhaps should consider alternatives. End Snip Agreed. I certainly don't believe in the idea that people should upgrade just for the sake of upgrading. There always should be some benefit to upgrading, and usually there are benefits that a person may or may not know about in advance. As long as someone has the mindset that there is absolutely nothing good about Windows 7, Windows 8, etc then they won't be able to see those benefits because they have already made their mind up to dislike it benefits or no benefits. Snip The above points you raise are less reasons than justifications, in my opinion. There are solutions, some of them reasonably simple, to both of them. End snip Yes, agreed. There are reasonably simple solutions to the problems Dark raised such as maintaining two computers instead of one, but I haven't heard anything that justifies his points. All I see is a bunch of reasons why he dislikes the new versions of Windows so much, and weather I agree with him or not that won't change the fact that no matter how much he likes or dislikes Windows 8 it is the present and XP is the past. Neither Microsoft or any other developer will continue to support it forever. Sooner or later all good things must come to an end. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Fair enough, well that is likely a reason for me to possibly considder a mac in the future, though I'll have to try windows 8 first. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Draconis i...@dracoent.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Well, as Tom said, and I eluded to, there isn't really much to add. The process for installing a VM, at least on Mac, is extremely simple for anyone. It literally consists of these steps: 1. Install the VMWare Fusion app, which is 100% accessible. 2. Insert a Windows XP install disc and click to create a new VM. 3. Follow the prompts and type in the key for the Windows XP disc. 4. VMWare does all of the inaccessible Windows installation screens for you, so you're done. install your screen reader and use Windows. That's literally all there is to it. I've actually done this several times already. On Apr 30, 2013, at 12:46 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi josh. I never said I would not! upgrade, only that I had looked at the pros and cons and decided against it. Remember, my comments about the interface in windows 7 do not just reflect the main start menue and windows explorer, but also programs like outlook express, microsoft office etc, since in windows 7 all of those things change. Also bare in mind these are not based upon unwarrented assumptions, but on several hours spen looking around a number of machines running windows 7. It is true I have not yet tried windows 8, so my comments are mostly directed at windows 7 in particular. as far as virtual machines go, this is precisely why I suggest! people put out more information. for a none programmer, running a virtual machine is not such a simple matter at all, aprticularly without vision, and though I have red articals on the subject nothing has looked symple particularly when you cannot read the windows boot screen etc, hence my original suggestion. as to creating post xp games, well that would give a reason to upgrade, though bare in mind there are so many negatives with windows 7 there would need to be a lot of extremely good games to count the balance, as indeed there are currently on Iphone. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] slide puzzles for iDevices - Re: More Games
There is also one simply called Puzzle. Offhand, I don't know the developer. You can choose between a 4 by 4 or a 5 by 5 grid. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Donna merma...@bellsouth.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] More Games Hi Chris I also like to solve slide puzzles. Did you know that there is a slide puzzle for IOS??? Sluzzuls by Mochi Development can found in the app store. The game is FREE and fully accessible with voiceover. Donna Hello all thanks to L-Works, I have probably all of their games, both demo and free. I really like their free offering called Slide! I am in to puzzles you see. Slide is based on a slide puzzle. You can either have a 3 by 3 grid, a 4 by 4 grid, and a word grid. The object is to re-arrange the numbers or letters in their proper order, leavin the empty square at the bottom right. Love it! I of course like their offerings but that Slide is a brilliant idea for a game. Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Sluzzuls
Sounds like it uses letters instead of numbers. I would think that you would have to group all Bs together, followed by all the Cs and so on. Not having the game on my iPhone, this is merely speculation on my part. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Chris H christopher...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:43 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Sluzzuls Good afternoon all. Just bought this gameSluzzuls in the Uk app store. Now are you sure it's the right one? Asking as all I see on the screen is a, a, a, b, b, b, c, c, c, etc etc. Doesn't seem as obvious as L-Works' Slide game. Any responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
As a blind person, I still very much prefer pulldown menus rather than ribbons, and I use Outlook Express because it is user friendly and for a visually impaired person, it! works! Why be forced to switch from what works well to what doesn't only because it is newer? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi charlse. i do agree, particularly since a lot of the changes in windows 7 are cosmetic at best (heck, nobody blind or sighted likes the ui either but microsoft are forcing people to use it since you can't buy a new computer without). The same goes for other programs and products too, for example microsoft outlook express is by far my favourite male client since it does what I want and no more. I've tried windows messenger and indeed thunderbird on windwos 77, but both had the practice of chuck as much at the screen as possible, so that a bazillion functions and controls were all over the place, indeed this seems to be a regular thing with all modern ui's, instead of having different functions in different windows, menues and the like that could be open, stuff is just chucked everywhere regardless. This works on a tablet with a touch screen because you have the spacial relations to go on, though even so I do miss just pressing one letter to instantly find something, however without! a touch screen that sort of thing is murder, or at least it seemed that way given the several hours I spent with a win7 machine trying to work the blooody thing out and constantly having stuff change position and muck about on me. yes, I could get used to it, but why should I if there aren't any actual new functions on the computer that would help me do what I do better? Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Especially in view of the fact that, as has been pointed out before, the vast majority of blind folks are unemployed, some by choice I'm sure but most not, and therefore can't afford to go out and buy new machines, even if they would actually like to upgrade. But thou must! On 4/30/2013 10:28 AM, Charles Rivard wrote: Why shouldn't it be the other way around? Support what is used by the users rather than use what isn't supported and then try to support what is used? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi, on top of all this, there is one simple thing to look at. Look at the main gaming industry. There are a lot of games out there that do not support anything less than Windows 7. So we aren't the first to see this happen. In fact, the audio games industry is being held back by the fact that we are being encouraged to keep supporting old OSs. So I think it's time that we look at the bigger picture of computing, and the capabilities that new OSs provide, and look at upgrading and what it would providers, rather than what it does not provide us! Regards: Dallas On 30/04/2013, at 22:50, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Like so many things in life there are two sides to every argument, and I certainly can't dispute that the issues you raised are valid, but there is another side to the debate as well. It is true that on 64-bit versions of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 it is not possible to play older 16-bit Dos games without a third-party emulator like Dosbox which is unfortunately not accessible. However, the real problem is not Windows, but the newer 64-bit processors themselves as they can not execute 16-bit applications natively which is why Microsoft dropped 16-bit support in newer versions of Windows. The problem for developers like Microsoft is why should they spend time and money trying to support old 16-bit applications that is no longer supported by the hardware of today when there are free applications like Dosbox available? However, the problem with making Dosbox accessible is easier said than done. From what I know of Dosbox in order to make it accessible a developer would be better off rewriting the emulator completely from scratch. That is no minor undertaking, and are you and the rest of the V.I. community willing to pay for this to be done? The second issue you raised is that of Visual Basic 6 support. I frankly don't know what you expect us developers to do about that situation. In my opinion there is frankly nothing we can do about that situation directly. The only thing we can do as end users and developers is encourage those using Visual Basic to upgrade to something more modern as quickly as they can to avoid any more needless compatibility issues. Otherwise we are going to experience more issues like those with the BSC games and Windows 8 as newer versions of Windows become available. What I am about to say will sound harsh to many, but I think it needs to be said. As early as 2006 I remember Microsoft actively encouraging Visual Basic 6 developers to upgrade to VB .NET and to move away from DirectX 8 as time was running out. Most of the mainstream developers listened and chose to begin upgrading their software to VB .NET 2005. Here we are nearly 7 years later and the majority of audio game developers are still using it even though Visual Basic 6 was discontinued as far back as 2008. So any compatibility issues we have with games and Windows 8 are the fault of those audio game developers who have chosen for one reason or another not to adopt newer programming languages and tools. It is the audio game developers who are making it difficult to upgrade to say Windows 8 without worrying if game x will or won't be compatible not Microsoft. Its not like Microsoft didn't repeatedly warn VB developers what would happen years in advance. So let's begin by placing the blame where blame is due. Regarding the user interface it is definitely different in Windows 7 and in Windows 8 but there are workarounds for what you want. The Classic Shell application restores many of the Windows XP U.I. elements you are talking about including the classic Start Menu etc. So saying it is not possible to have listed menus and coherent folder structures, is absolutely false. If you were to install the Classic Shell add-on for Windows you would restore a semblance of the Windows XP look and feel to modern versions of Windows. Finally, while it is certainly your right to choose to upgrade or not upgrade let me say that it puts us game developers in an untenable situation. What I mean by that is sometimes it is not possible to support both older versions of Windows and newer versions of Windows
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Since on a Mac you can have a native install of XP or any other version of Windows you like since, I fail to understand this argument. By having a Mac with a *native* install of XP, or Win7, or whatever you want, you have the best of both worlds in a machine that you will probably be able to use for years and years to come. A modern OS for debs who are moving forward, and an XP install for your old titles. Response: This does make sense if or when the money can be found. A Mac costs more, but the costs associated with Freedom Scientific's SMA are eliminated. As for using Windows 7 with a classic shell, if the OS had not been so drastically changed, there would be no need for the classic shell. It is there because people would be using it because they like the feel and ease of use of the older operating system. If we like the operation of the old, why was the change made to begin with? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Draconis i...@dracoent.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi Dark, Responses throughout again. *snip* one of my intrinsic problems with this upgrade business is to do with practical good and also practicality of how many computers one can actually own. i do not actually have the space for more than one desktop, plus laptops have a shorter life generally. Virtual xp is always a solution next to a main os, but how well that runs I'm not sure over all. *snip* These days, with SSD's and the like, laptops have comparable life-spans to desktops. And, since several options proposed do *not* involve having multiple machines, I fail to see the problem here, either. *snip* As regards windows 7 generally however, one of my main issues with this debate is that programmers take a look at a new system and say wow, look at the specs, look at the hardware, support for this that and the other etc Myself, i don't give a monkey's rear how much ram a computer has, what programs it runs what processor it has etc, it's all a question of what can I do with it. This is also wy i cryticize post xp windows and microsoft's over all approach to interface generally, since frankly having used windows 7 on several machines I do not agree with dallas point, and while classic shell might be an option, well why should I move from an interface I'm comfortable with, that I can personally customize to one I must jigger with in order to work? and that's not just in the programs either. *snip* No one here has said anything about RAM or any other hardware specs, so that argument is coming out of left field. Generally speaking, i don't care that much about hardware specs either. It is the usability of the machine that is the main concern. People have given you quite a few good reasons to upgrade in this thread, you just aren't listening, because your mind is already made up, and you aren't really considering other possible scenarios. If in a couple of years you're still running XP and a newly discovered security exploit leaves you high and dry, then that is the risk you are choosing to take. If you still go out and purchase another XP machine after that, then you've got no one to blame but yourself. *snip* if there were hundreds of great new games which required windows 7, well I'd likely have a good reason to, but that is simply not the case, which is quite ironic given that I did make a similar switch from windows 98 to xp back in 2002 for precisely that reason. *snip* Back then, there wasn't a contingency of users trying to keep developers from moving on to XP, hence you were forced to change. I propose developers do this again to help move things along. *grin* *snip* From a pure usability perspective, mac is probably a better option than post xp windows at the moment, however legacy support is a severe issue, particularly with developers who continue to essentially write for xp, and even more specifically when there are comparatively few audio games on mac. *snip* Since on a Mac you can have a native install of XP or any other version of Windows you like since, I fail to understand this argument. By having a Mac with a *native* install of XP, or Win7, or whatever you want, you have the best of both worlds in a machine that you will probably be able to use for years and years to come. A modern OS for debs who are moving forward, and an XP install for your old titles. *snip* while I do appreciate the issues that developers have, at the same time there is an element of give and take needed I think, which is exactly why I suggested developers aide in this situation, eg, by writing a guide on virtual xp emulation with download for mac and windows 7, for trying to do something about dosbox and vb6 etc, since at least for some people
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi charlse. I agree regarding classic shell, plus classic shell does not solve the other issues with newer windows components such as control panel, e-mail etc, this is why if I am forced to upgrade I'd considder the mac with virtual xp over windows 7. Whether this is true of 8 I don't know, I'd have to try it at the time, but at the moment xp does just seem the best option. Beware the Grue! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark, Upon reading this and other messages you have written I think the fundimental problem is that you have no experience developing software, or working for a company where you have to develop, maintain, and support software for a long period of time so your comments completely overlook technical reasons why your ideas can not and do not work from a practicality standpoint. For example, you accused Microsoft of not doing their job properly because they do not support all their libraries and software from Dos all the way up to Windows 8. OK, I guess Apple is just as bad as Microsoft because you can not run applications from Mac OS 9 and earlier on OS X. You can't run programs designed for an Apple II-E on a brand new Macbook without an emulator. I guess the Linux developers are all just as bad as Microsoft too because there are some older applications that do not work with Pulse Audio and it requires some rather extensive workarounds to make them work on a modern Linux OS. I could go on and on but won't. The bottom line is the first thing you need to understand this isn't a problem specific to Microsoft. Every single operating system be it Windows, Mac OS, Linux, whatever will not run some software if it is too old and out of date. Hardware changes, libraries change, software changes, and it becomes harder and harder to maintain support for older software. As I mentioned in a previous email newer Intel and AMD 64-bit processors can not execute or run 16-bit code. That is why 64-bit Windows and Linux do not run 16-bit applications. The only way to resolve that problem is to write a 16-bit to 64-bit emulator like Dosbox which creates a virtual 16-bit environment for Dos applications. My question is why should Microsoft spend all their time and resources developing such an emulator when a very small number of their customers will ever need it? The other issue is bloat. One of the things Microsoft did with Windows 7 is they went through the operating system and removed a lot of older legacy code for libraries and applications which resulted in the operating system running faster and increased over all stability. Things like Visual Basic 6, Outlook Express, etc got scrapped in the process but the end result is a better operating system in terms of stability and speed. One of the things about Windows 8 I especially like is its start time. Windows 8 really boots very fast, and on a new PC runs very smooth. A lot of that speed can be attributed to yanking out a lot of old garbage that was no longer needed that were just wasting drive space as well as memory. So in order for Microsoft to support everything from Dos on up it would result in a lot of unnecessary bloat and could introduce unnecessary stability issues. Not to mention requires time and money that could be spent on something else more productive. That's where third-party developers like VMWare come in as they fulfill the needs of people who want to run their old software on a new PC. Cheers! On 4/30/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I completely agree that in 10, 20 years down the line etc things will change, however that is not the current decision. When I considder do I change from xp to a newer os, I way up the costs and bennifits. It is entirely possible that windows 8 (with a touch screen), windows 9, mac os etc will have sufficient bennifits in terms of new and interesting stuff to do on it for me to want to upgrade, heck I've already bought an Iphone just for that reason. Equally however one thing I do notice betwene pc and console games is that while mainstream console games are heavily supported on newer systems, indeed I hear of ac ompletely retro console under developement, so that if my snes ever gave up the ghost I wouldn't lose my games, the same is simply not true for pc titles which is why legacy support is such an important factor. Fundamentally, if microsoft did! do their job properly and support all their old libraries on newer versions of windows, just as windows right up to xp had ful dos support meaning that you could run a peace of software written in the late 70's right up to now, we would not be having this conversation since even if there were! newer games that only ran on newer windows you wouldn't be asking users to give up what games they had already in addition to accepting microsoft's silly interface. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Is this how it works? Microsoft sells the new OS. That OS doesn't support older hardware and software, so hardware and software developers make new products to run on the new OS. The computer manufacturers make the new computers that handle all of this other new stuff. Now, the consumer must buy the new computers that come with the new software and hardware running the new OS. The only ones who are short changed are the consumers. If we don't have the money to buy the new for whatever reason, we're screwed. What's wrong with this picture from the consumer's side of things? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi Charles, When it comes to hardware manufacturers they are looking at it from the perspective of PC builders and manufacturers like Del, HP, Gateway, etc. Those companies are building new PCs with Windows 7 and Windows 8 on them so that is where the market is for hardware manufacturers. Trying to sustain backwards compatibility with XP wouldn't be in their best interests long term. What I mean by that is it all comes down to money. Del, HP, Gateway, Toshiba,etc make their money buy selling new computers. The hardware manufacturers Intel, AMD, Asuse, ATI, and so on make their money by selling parts to the PC builders. Microsoft as the largest software manufacturer in the world also insures their OS is designed for the new hardware rather than making it backwards compatible with systems older than five years or so. Neither group has any interest or desire to insure your five or ten year old machine can be upgraded because everyone loses money from the hardware manufacturers, the software providers, and the PC builders on down the line. Put another way if 7 out of every 10 customers have XP then the goal of a PC manufacturer like Del and a software developer like Microsoft is to find a way to get as many of those people to upgrade to the latest hardware and software for sale. One way to do that is by simply stopping all support for the prior OS, and stop making parts for it. Sooner or later the reluctant customer has a choice to upgrade or do without. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Isn't this exactly why older hardware should be supported? People still use them. Supply what the people want rather than the other way around. If l7 out of 10 of my customers use older machines, I would produce stuff they can use. To me, saying that we are moving on and it is up to you as to whether you follow the trends is counterproductive when dealing with visually impaired customers based on their very valid reasons for not wanting to upgrade. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
The search box is really intuitive; but if it doesn't find what you want you can always just use the menu system. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 10:53:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows What if you're not sure of the name of what you're looking for? Is there a way to hunt for something you would recognize when you find it? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Charles, That's true. One that I will strongly consider as a software developer. However, as I also pointed out there may come a day where it is no longer possible to support XP and Windows 8 at the same time without developing and maintaining multiple versions of the same game. That takes extra time and more effort for little gain. I expect over the next few years XP use will slowly but surely drop among blind users as old machines break down, get replaced, etc. While it is true most blind people can't afford to run out and buy the latest and greatest given enough time XP users will be in the minority the way Windows 98 users are today. As a software developer I don't want my games and software to end up like the BSC games where they have to be completely rewritten from scratch or given away all because I didn't stay up to date to begin with. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: The rub is that, unlike the majority of sighted, and employed, computer users, the visually impaired, for the most part, are unemployed, and don't have the money to go out and buy a new machine that is up to today's standards. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Tom. One question. If this is the case, how come on my windows xp machine, bought in 2008, I can run somftware written for dos in 1979? I'm afraid your arguement that all systems do this just doesn't make that sort of sense. Equally, if it is a case of simply keeping these old dependencies around, why doesn't microsoft offer them free for downloadd and installation for those who want them but not for those who don't? Same goes for emulators. Also, I do not accept any arguements about saving time and saving money from the richest company in the world who pay their employees in third world countries less than one penny an hour, microsoft frankly does! have the money to do whatever the heck they want,, indeed I am told that a virtual xp emulator is available from mcirsofot's own site precisely because they failed to take into account how much vested interest people had in xp, but wanted to force everyone to upgrade as you yourself described earlier, indeed a standad cryticism of much of the technology industry from car design to computing is that newer doesn't necessarily mean better, often it just means whatever can be sold. in terms of smoothness and running, well once again this I think comes down to a technical, vs utilitarian debate. If a computer won't do what I want it to do, why should I care about it's efficiency or speed? i'd much rather have a slightly slower computer that does what I want than a super fast technically better model that does not, case in point, this is why I still have a snes but haven't bought any more modern consoles, simply because of game availability, though as an interesting fact even if I did! buy a modern console I could still get and play all my old games since companies like Nintendo and Sega have realized that people don't appreciate losing out on what they used to have and that they themselves can actually make money supporting this. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
If Outlook Express and versions of Microsoft Word that use pulldown menus that are accessible to all work fine, why scrap them and incorporate new programs that are less accessible? Or am I still missing something from the point of view of an end user? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi Dark, Upon reading this and other messages you have written I think the fundimental problem is that you have no experience developing software, or working for a company where you have to develop, maintain, and support software for a long period of time so your comments completely overlook technical reasons why your ideas can not and do not work from a practicality standpoint. For example, you accused Microsoft of not doing their job properly because they do not support all their libraries and software from Dos all the way up to Windows 8. OK, I guess Apple is just as bad as Microsoft because you can not run applications from Mac OS 9 and earlier on OS X. You can't run programs designed for an Apple II-E on a brand new Macbook without an emulator. I guess the Linux developers are all just as bad as Microsoft too because there are some older applications that do not work with Pulse Audio and it requires some rather extensive workarounds to make them work on a modern Linux OS. I could go on and on but won't. The bottom line is the first thing you need to understand this isn't a problem specific to Microsoft. Every single operating system be it Windows, Mac OS, Linux, whatever will not run some software if it is too old and out of date. Hardware changes, libraries change, software changes, and it becomes harder and harder to maintain support for older software. As I mentioned in a previous email newer Intel and AMD 64-bit processors can not execute or run 16-bit code. That is why 64-bit Windows and Linux do not run 16-bit applications. The only way to resolve that problem is to write a 16-bit to 64-bit emulator like Dosbox which creates a virtual 16-bit environment for Dos applications. My question is why should Microsoft spend all their time and resources developing such an emulator when a very small number of their customers will ever need it? The other issue is bloat. One of the things Microsoft did with Windows 7 is they went through the operating system and removed a lot of older legacy code for libraries and applications which resulted in the operating system running faster and increased over all stability. Things like Visual Basic 6, Outlook Express, etc got scrapped in the process but the end result is a better operating system in terms of stability and speed. One of the things about Windows 8 I especially like is its start time. Windows 8 really boots very fast, and on a new PC runs very smooth. A lot of that speed can be attributed to yanking out a lot of old garbage that was no longer needed that were just wasting drive space as well as memory. So in order for Microsoft to support everything from Dos on up it would result in a lot of unnecessary bloat and could introduce unnecessary stability issues. Not to mention requires time and money that could be spent on something else more productive. That's where third-party developers like VMWare come in as they fulfill the needs of people who want to run their old software on a new PC. Cheers! On 4/30/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I completely agree that in 10, 20 years down the line etc things will change, however that is not the current decision. When I considder do I change from xp to a newer os, I way up the costs and bennifits. It is entirely possible that windows 8 (with a touch screen), windows 9, mac os etc will have sufficient bennifits in terms of new and interesting stuff to do on it for me to want to upgrade, heck I've already bought an Iphone just for that reason. Equally however one thing I do notice betwene pc and console games is that while mainstream console games are heavily supported on newer systems, indeed I hear of ac ompletely retro console under developement, so that if my snes ever gave up the ghost I wouldn't lose my games, the same is simply not true for pc titles which is why legacy support is such an important factor. Fundamentally, if microsoft did! do their job properly and support all their old libraries on newer versions of windows, just as windows right up to xp had ful dos support meaning that you could run a peace of software written in the late 70's right up to now, we would not be having this conversation since even if there were! newer games that only ran on newer windows you wouldn't be asking users to give up what games they had already in addition to accepting microsoft's silly interface. Beware the
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi charlse. This is pretty much true, however this is also the world we live in and frankly big coorporations will do this because they can. However, the problem comes when consumers and indi developers get stuck in the middle, which was my point with this topic in the first place, suggesting that our developers actually try to help make transitions easier by aiding with comaptibility, virtual os etc, indeed I do feel a little more positive about the mac option after Josh's explanation. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Is this how it works? Microsoft sells the new OS. That OS doesn't support older hardware and software, so hardware and software developers make new products to run on the new OS. The computer manufacturers make the new computers that handle all of this other new stuff. Now, the consumer must buy the new computers that come with the new software and hardware running the new OS. The only ones who are short changed are the consumers. If we don't have the money to buy the new for whatever reason, we're screwed. What's wrong with this picture from the consumer's side of things? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark, it sounds as if you are in essence holding developers in this community somehow responsible for what is essentially the computing world in general, moving forward as it normally does. By saying that audio game developers are saying to the community, 'tough luck' is maybe not the most sensitive / understanding position to share. The time and effort it takes to support older OSs is exponentially more than it would take to develop for just one modern platform / OS. I'll relate this to my own experience. having known / worked with Josh now for several years, the time and attention to detail he exhibits as well as the desire to support as many users as possible, regardless of what OS they choose to use is something I've come to really respect about him. So it kind of amazes me when people still feel the devs here are like enemies trying to pull away their beloved accessible games at every opportunity. This just isn't the case. You must realize that Draconis in particular, would love to have as many titles as possible be available to as many gamers as would like them, and offer the most fun and hassle-free gaming experience possible. This isn't a case of developers just waiting for the opportunity to pull the rug out from under people. It takes a whole lot of extra time and effort to support a range of OSs. It's just not as simple as write once, run anywhere, as Thomas has also tried to convey here on many occasions. Does this make sense?… People in the typical sighted software development world often can base entire careers on developing for one platform and be very good at what they do. this is common. In the blind community though, it seems most people naively expect pretty much every developer whom shows their face to be able to be a wizard at whipping out game after game for every OS past and present on every machine and if they cannot deliver, they're run-down. I know this seems sort of over-simplified, but just look at the posts here. People may not always come out and say it, (sometimes they do) but there sure can be an awful lot of implication. anyway, enough of my rant. I do hope this makes some sense and thanks for reading… Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Apr 30, 2013, at 5:48 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi trouble. As I said, I am not aversed to upgrading when it is of bennifit to me, and indeed this is I think the reason most people do not do so. If something ain't broke, why fix it. i also question your progress forward analogy for this reason, since something with a less friendly interface, with inconvenient programs that won't run much older software isn't forwarrd, it's simply different. My point was that instead of everyone being forced to upgrade and things being lost, or developers saying well tough luck since we're microsoft has forced us to upgrae we look at the reasons why! people do not, since contrary to your message, choice to continue using xp is not an irrational one or simply a question of liking one flavour of icecream over another. As to the xp box, well it is the same hear, however I do know where I can get a reconditioned machine of good quality. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Sluzzuls
Hi Chris, I have never played the slide puzzle from L-Works. So I'm not familiar with the layout of the slide puzzle, meaning I don't know if an actual picture, numbers or letters are used. With Sluzzuls the letters that voiceover reads back to you are supposed to be grouped together, another words all of the A's, B's etc. The game board is layed out as follows; Think of a large 9x9 square, which is sectioned off into 9 3x3 squares. I like this slide puzzle, because it is a bit more challenging and difficult in comparison to the traditional slide puzzles. The fact that letters are used makes getting confused a bit challenging in itself. For those with sight, the small tiles have different colors. The colors have to be grouped by same to complete the puzzle. In my opinion, this sounds a lot easier. But I love a good challenge and find this slide puzzle a lot of fun! HTH Donna Good afternoon all. Just bought this gameSluzzuls in the Uk app store. Now are you sure it's the right one? Asking as all I see on the screen is a, a, a, b, b, b, c, c, c, etc etc. Doesn't seem as obvious as L-Works' Slide game. Any responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Charlse. Unfortunately from the perspective of microsoft it is about what sells, and if you can wrap something up in a shiny box and tell people it is new and better you can sell more of it, irrispective of whether it actually is or not, and equally irrispective of whether your poor blind customers will appreciate the shiny box or just get stuck with the crappy contents. However, the problem seems to be that because microsoft are forcing people to upgrade by dropping support particularly for components, people are getting stuck betwene either A, not upgrading and having a more usable option but losing out on anything new, or B, upgrading and getting stuck. This is why as I said for me the point when upgrading is better than not upgrading just has not been reached yet, and I'm certain that is the same for others, but it is possible there are workarounds. I will say that whatever I think of several of apple's practices they do rather beat microsoft in terms of easy access. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Sluzzuls
Doesn't this game have a timer though? -Original Message- From: Donna Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:59 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Sluzzuls Hi Chris, I have never played the slide puzzle from L-Works. So I'm not familiar with the layout of the slide puzzle, meaning I don't know if an actual picture, numbers or letters are used. With Sluzzuls the letters that voiceover reads back to you are supposed to be grouped together, another words all of the A's, B's etc. The game board is layed out as follows; Think of a large 9x9 square, which is sectioned off into 9 3x3 squares. I like this slide puzzle, because it is a bit more challenging and difficult in comparison to the traditional slide puzzles. The fact that letters are used makes getting confused a bit challenging in itself. For those with sight, the small tiles have different colors. The colors have to be grouped by same to complete the puzzle. In my opinion, this sounds a lot easier. But I love a good challenge and find this slide puzzle a lot of fun! HTH Donna Good afternoon all. Just bought this gameSluzzuls in the Uk app store. Now are you sure it's the right one? Asking as all I see on the screen is a, a, a, b, b, b, c, c, c, etc etc. Doesn't seem as obvious as L-Works' Slide game. Any responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Kara. I do not blaime developers for the computing situation, (that is clearly microsoft's fault), but at the same time there is honestly some tention hear, and I've detected it from comments from Tom and Josh precisely about! supporting older systems and about people still using out of date things. My point in this discussion was to honestly and naturally explain the reasons why! I and others choose to use xp, and suggest that these are matters developers could assist with in part by making newer versions of windows a less unatractive option by working! on the things microsoft missed such as dosbox emulation, or just providing appropriate information Frankly everyone's lives would've been simpler if things had stayed with xp with mac as an alterantive, but since that is not the case, it would be good if people worked together on this rather than developers concerned over what will be supported where clashing with players not wishing to give up their old games and move on to newer os with less available and with worse access over all. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Charles, that's close enough. However, I don't believe anyone said it was right or particularly. fair. That's just the way business generally works. For example, when I took a marketing class in college we studied a marketing technique called perceived obsolescence. The way it works is you take an existing product and you find a way to repackage and resell it to the customer without having to spend much on developing a new product to replace it. So let's say you purchased a brand new computer from Del with an almond colored case, keyboard, mouse, and flat screen display. Six months later Del has parts left over from that run so they put them in a brand new case that is smaller, painted black, and has a matching USB keyboard, wireless mouse, and flat screen monitor. The motherboard, hard drive, sound card, etc inside the computer is exactly the same as you purchased but because of the nice new case, keyboard and mouse you might think you are getting something new when it is the same product in a slightly different form. A lot of what Microsoft does is for the same reasons. I don't know too many people who likes the ribbons in Microsoft Office and File Explorer etc but it looks different. I figure the primary reason they do it is because of perceived obsolescence. They can take a product like Wordpad, which has been around for years, and make it new just by taking out the menu bars, replacing them with ribbons, changing a few other user interface elements and packing it on their new OS as an updated version of the software when in reality the software hasn't changed. There isn't anything new we didn't have before like a spell checker, grammar checker, thesaurus, whatever, but it looks new and is marketed as such. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Is this how it works? Microsoft sells the new OS. That OS doesn't support older hardware and software, so hardware and software developers make new products to run on the new OS. The computer manufacturers make the new computers that handle all of this other new stuff. Now, the consumer must buy the new computers that come with the new software and hardware running the new OS. The only ones who are short changed are the consumers. If we don't have the money to buy the new for whatever reason, we're screwed. What's wrong with this picture from the consumer's side of things? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Sluzzuls
Yes, kind of like a stopwatch. In other words it counts up. Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com On 30/04/2013 19:04, MamaPeach wrote: Doesn't this game have a timer though? -Original Message- From: Donna Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:59 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Sluzzuls Hi Chris, I have never played the slide puzzle from L-Works. So I'm not familiar with the layout of the slide puzzle, meaning I don't know if an actual picture, numbers or letters are used. With Sluzzuls the letters that voiceover reads back to you are supposed to be grouped together, another words all of the A's, B's etc. The game board is layed out as follows; Think of a large 9x9 square, which is sectioned off into 9 3x3 squares. I like this slide puzzle, because it is a bit more challenging and difficult in comparison to the traditional slide puzzles. The fact that letters are used makes getting confused a bit challenging in itself. For those with sight, the small tiles have different colors. The colors have to be grouped by same to complete the puzzle. In my opinion, this sounds a lot easier. But I love a good challenge and find this slide puzzle a lot of fun! HTH Donna Good afternoon all. Just bought this gameSluzzuls in the Uk app store. Now are you sure it's the right one? Asking as all I see on the screen is a, a, a, b, b, b, c, c, c, etc etc. Doesn't seem as obvious as L-Works' Slide game. Any responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Which is again why i'm so suspicious about updating and why the cost/bennifits of updating are something I considder so carefully. Beware the Grue! DArk. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi Charles, that's close enough. However, I don't believe anyone said it was right or particularly. fair. That's just the way business generally works. For example, when I took a marketing class in college we studied a marketing technique called perceived obsolescence. The way it works is you take an existing product and you find a way to repackage and resell it to the customer without having to spend much on developing a new product to replace it. So let's say you purchased a brand new computer from Del with an almond colored case, keyboard, mouse, and flat screen display. Six months later Del has parts left over from that run so they put them in a brand new case that is smaller, painted black, and has a matching USB keyboard, wireless mouse, and flat screen monitor. The motherboard, hard drive, sound card, etc inside the computer is exactly the same as you purchased but because of the nice new case, keyboard and mouse you might think you are getting something new when it is the same product in a slightly different form. A lot of what Microsoft does is for the same reasons. I don't know too many people who likes the ribbons in Microsoft Office and File Explorer etc but it looks different. I figure the primary reason they do it is because of perceived obsolescence. They can take a product like Wordpad, which has been around for years, and make it new just by taking out the menu bars, replacing them with ribbons, changing a few other user interface elements and packing it on their new OS as an updated version of the software when in reality the software hasn't changed. There isn't anything new we didn't have before like a spell checker, grammar checker, thesaurus, whatever, but it looks new and is marketed as such. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Is this how it works? Microsoft sells the new OS. That OS doesn't support older hardware and software, so hardware and software developers make new products to run on the new OS. The computer manufacturers make the new computers that handle all of this other new stuff. Now, the consumer must buy the new computers that come with the new software and hardware running the new OS. The only ones who are short changed are the consumers. If we don't have the money to buy the new for whatever reason, we're screwed. What's wrong with this picture from the consumer's side of things? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Snes
Good evening all. By the way a very interesting discussion on the post Windows Xp era. I thought I would start a new thread letting you know I used to play on the Snes. My favourite game was Streetfighter, both the standard version ii and Streetfighter Turbo. I never owned a Snes myself but used to play on either my cousins or my sister's machine. I also used to play Mortal Combat, but Streetfighter was the all time favourite for me, and it was excellent in terms of usability at the time. Thoughts welcome. Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
hi, you forgot about the ability of windows 8 to perform all maintenence tasks together directed by one process so unlike win7 windows 8 will download and install updates, clean log files, defrag the hdd etconly when your pc is idle also the refresh and reset feature is another reason to upgrade to win8 another reason to try modern operating systrms is multicore and multithreading support if you have a xp box it won't support multithreading or multicore in the pro version without some tweeking not to mention that xp is full of security holes right now if you took a rtm release of xp installed it with no updates and plugged in the ethernet cable on a network with no firewall the pc would be infected in 0 seconds I know this because i've tried it on a old xp box I have had no such problems on windows 8 On 4/30/2013 8:34 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Dark, Upon reading this and other messages you have written I think the fundimental problem is that you have no experience developing software, or working for a company where you have to develop, maintain, and support software for a long period of time so your comments completely overlook technical reasons why your ideas can not and do not work from a practicality standpoint. For example, you accused Microsoft of not doing their job properly because they do not support all their libraries and software from Dos all the way up to Windows 8. OK, I guess Apple is just as bad as Microsoft because you can not run applications from Mac OS 9 and earlier on OS X. You can't run programs designed for an Apple II-E on a brand new Macbook without an emulator. I guess the Linux developers are all just as bad as Microsoft too because there are some older applications that do not work with Pulse Audio and it requires some rather extensive workarounds to make them work on a modern Linux OS. I could go on and on but won't. The bottom line is the first thing you need to understand this isn't a problem specific to Microsoft. Every single operating system be it Windows, Mac OS, Linux, whatever will not run some software if it is too old and out of date. Hardware changes, libraries change, software changes, and it becomes harder and harder to maintain support for older software. As I mentioned in a previous email newer Intel and AMD 64-bit processors can not execute or run 16-bit code. That is why 64-bit Windows and Linux do not run 16-bit applications. The only way to resolve that problem is to write a 16-bit to 64-bit emulator like Dosbox which creates a virtual 16-bit environment for Dos applications. My question is why should Microsoft spend all their time and resources developing such an emulator when a very small number of their customers will ever need it? The other issue is bloat. One of the things Microsoft did with Windows 7 is they went through the operating system and removed a lot of older legacy code for libraries and applications which resulted in the operating system running faster and increased over all stability. Things like Visual Basic 6, Outlook Express, etc got scrapped in the process but the end result is a better operating system in terms of stability and speed. One of the things about Windows 8 I especially like is its start time. Windows 8 really boots very fast, and on a new PC runs very smooth. A lot of that speed can be attributed to yanking out a lot of old garbage that was no longer needed that were just wasting drive space as well as memory. So in order for Microsoft to support everything from Dos on up it would result in a lot of unnecessary bloat and could introduce unnecessary stability issues. Not to mention requires time and money that could be spent on something else more productive. That's where third-party developers like VMWare come in as they fulfill the needs of people who want to run their old software on a new PC. Cheers! On 4/30/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I completely agree that in 10, 20 years down the line etc things will change, however that is not the current decision. When I considder do I change from xp to a newer os, I way up the costs and bennifits. It is entirely possible that windows 8 (with a touch screen), windows 9, mac os etc will have sufficient bennifits in terms of new and interesting stuff to do on it for me to want to upgrade, heck I've already bought an Iphone just for that reason. Equally however one thing I do notice betwene pc and console games is that while mainstream console games are heavily supported on newer systems, indeed I hear of ac ompletely retro console under developement, so that if my snes ever gave up the ghost I wouldn't lose my games, the same is simply not true for pc titles which is why legacy support is such an important factor. Fundamentally, if microsoft did! do their job properly and support all their old libraries on newer versions of windows, just as windows right up to xp had ful dos support meaning that you could run a peace of software written in
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Charles, *snip* Response: This does make sense if or when the money can be found. A Mac costs more, but the costs associated with Freedom Scientific's SMA are eliminated. *snip* That, but the idea that Macs cost more is not true. If you get a PC with the same specs and quality of a Mac, it will be the same price as a Mac. The only difference is that Apple chooses not to make computers in the extreme low-end of the market, which is where most PC's are these days. Macs have much longer life spans than PC's, in general, as well, and Apple supports older hardware much, much longer than any other company out there. So, there are a lot of benefits in purchasing a better machine upfront that ultimately results in a cheaper experience. Not to mention the much lower cost of upgrading the machine to the new OS. Apple makes this as simple as two clicks, and typically only charges $20 for each new version of the OS, as opposed to the hundreds for a new version of Windows. Put another, much mor exaggerated way, it is like saying that a gold wedding ring costs more than Halloween costume jewelry. It is sorta true, but you're not really comparing apples to apples. *snip* As for using Windows 7 with a classic shell, if the OS had not been so drastically changed, there would be no need for the classic shell. It is there because people would be using it because they like the feel and ease of use of the older operating system. If we like the operation of the old, why was the change made to begin with? *snip* Most sighted users I've spoken to who use Win7, are perfectly happy with the new interface. The classic shell is there for those who preferred it, but this really comes down to taste. Frankly, no Windows interface has ever been very well designed. It is there to give users options. Much as I can choose to use Apple's Alex voice, Nuance's Karen voice, or something else. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
For the record I'd like to try Windows 8. I just can't afford to at the moment, which is why I fervently hope my three-year-old Toshiba laptop doesn't decide to die on me anytime soon. There have been no indications that it will but I've observed that you never can tell with computers. LOL But thou must! On 4/30/2013 12:22 PM, enes wrote: hi, you forgot about the ability of windows 8 to perform all maintenence tasks together directed by one process so unlike win7 windows 8 will download and install updates, clean log files, defrag the hdd etconly when your pc is idle also the refresh and reset feature is another reason to upgrade to win8 another reason to try modern operating systrms is multicore and multithreading support if you have a xp box it won't support multithreading or multicore in the pro version without some tweeking not to mention that xp is full of security holes right now if you took a rtm release of xp installed it with no updates and plugged in the ethernet cable on a network with no firewall the pc would be infected in 0 seconds I know this because i've tried it on a old xp box I have had no such problems on windows 8 On 4/30/2013 8:34 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Dark, Upon reading this and other messages you have written I think the fundimental problem is that you have no experience developing software, or working for a company where you have to develop, maintain, and support software for a long period of time so your comments completely overlook technical reasons why your ideas can not and do not work from a practicality standpoint. For example, you accused Microsoft of not doing their job properly because they do not support all their libraries and software from Dos all the way up to Windows 8. OK, I guess Apple is just as bad as Microsoft because you can not run applications from Mac OS 9 and earlier on OS X. You can't run programs designed for an Apple II-E on a brand new Macbook without an emulator. I guess the Linux developers are all just as bad as Microsoft too because there are some older applications that do not work with Pulse Audio and it requires some rather extensive workarounds to make them work on a modern Linux OS. I could go on and on but won't. The bottom line is the first thing you need to understand this isn't a problem specific to Microsoft. Every single operating system be it Windows, Mac OS, Linux, whatever will not run some software if it is too old and out of date. Hardware changes, libraries change, software changes, and it becomes harder and harder to maintain support for older software. As I mentioned in a previous email newer Intel and AMD 64-bit processors can not execute or run 16-bit code. That is why 64-bit Windows and Linux do not run 16-bit applications. The only way to resolve that problem is to write a 16-bit to 64-bit emulator like Dosbox which creates a virtual 16-bit environment for Dos applications. My question is why should Microsoft spend all their time and resources developing such an emulator when a very small number of their customers will ever need it? The other issue is bloat. One of the things Microsoft did with Windows 7 is they went through the operating system and removed a lot of older legacy code for libraries and applications which resulted in the operating system running faster and increased over all stability. Things like Visual Basic 6, Outlook Express, etc got scrapped in the process but the end result is a better operating system in terms of stability and speed. One of the things about Windows 8 I especially like is its start time. Windows 8 really boots very fast, and on a new PC runs very smooth. A lot of that speed can be attributed to yanking out a lot of old garbage that was no longer needed that were just wasting drive space as well as memory. So in order for Microsoft to support everything from Dos on up it would result in a lot of unnecessary bloat and could introduce unnecessary stability issues. Not to mention requires time and money that could be spent on something else more productive. That's where third-party developers like VMWare come in as they fulfill the needs of people who want to run their old software on a new PC. Cheers! On 4/30/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I completely agree that in 10, 20 years down the line etc things will change, however that is not the current decision. When I considder do I change from xp to a newer os, I way up the costs and bennifits. It is entirely possible that windows 8 (with a touch screen), windows 9, mac os etc will have sufficient bennifits in terms of new and interesting stuff to do on it for me to want to upgrade, heck I've already bought an Iphone just for that reason. Equally however one thing I do notice betwene pc and console games is that while mainstream console games are heavily supported on newer systems, indeed I hear of ac ompletely retro console under developement, so that if my snes ever gave up the ghost I
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Charles, it's not that simple. As developers, we also need to use software to build apps. This software also evolves and changes along with the general market. The tools available change and the ease of use and implementation of those tools on the end-user's machines change. Even my work on iOS is effected by this as I need to weigh the merits of in effect asking customers to make sure they update to the latest iOS. Certain features may change in the way they are supported or need to be coded, so this is something that we as developers also need to consider when OSs change. to give you an example, while developing Breadcrumbs GPS there was a way that certain alerts were shown to the customer which took a certain way of coding. When iOS 5 came around, this all changed and So I needed to go back and rewrite the way these sorts of alerts were managed. This wasn't trivial but it definitely was a good and welcome change! Conversely, certain ways of coding which may be just fine for long periods of time may also become deprecated, which causes us to again need to go back and rewrite code which may be very engrained into an app. -And all this is just on one platform! :) Does this make sense?… So the idea of asking people to upgrade, isn't just a decision that we as developers, make on-high with no regard for end-users. :) Know what I mean?… There's a lot of consideration that goes into it. Thanks, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Apr 30, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: As for having to upgrade to a newer OS because the older ones aren't being supported, shouldn't the game developers use the tools of the trade that their customers can use? If you decide to create software that the newer systems can run but older systems cannot, and your customers are still using the older OS, aren't you shooting yourself in the foot? I don't follow the logic that dictates that users must upgrade to a less user friendly OS that won't run the software you have been accumulating because it is not being supported by the developers. It makes more sense to me that the developers should not be the determining factors as to what is produced for the end user. The end user should be the one to determine what is produced. If the majority of blind people cannot afford to upgrade their machines every few years, and the upgrades won't be easily accessible without major modifications and headaches, we should not have to be forced to make that upgrade, and developers should offer what the end user can use. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi Dark, Like so many things in life there are two sides to every argument, and I certainly can't dispute that the issues you raised are valid, but there is another side to the debate as well. It is true that on 64-bit versions of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 it is not possible to play older 16-bit Dos games without a third-party emulator like Dosbox which is unfortunately not accessible. However, the real problem is not Windows, but the newer 64-bit processors themselves as they can not execute 16-bit applications natively which is why Microsoft dropped 16-bit support in newer versions of Windows. The problem for developers like Microsoft is why should they spend time and money trying to support old 16-bit applications that is no longer supported by the hardware of today when there are free applications like Dosbox available? However, the problem with making Dosbox accessible is easier said than done. From what I know of Dosbox in order to make it accessible a developer would be better off rewriting the emulator completely from scratch. That is no minor undertaking, and are you and the rest of the V.I. community willing to pay for this to be done? The second issue you raised is that of Visual Basic 6 support. I frankly don't know what you expect us developers to do about that situation. In my opinion there is frankly nothing we can do about that situation directly. The only thing we can do as end users and developers is encourage those using Visual Basic to upgrade to something more modern as quickly as they can to avoid any more needless compatibility issues. Otherwise we are going to experience more issues like those with the BSC games and Windows 8 as newer versions of Windows become available. What I am about to say will sound harsh to many, but I think it needs to be said. As early as 2006 I remember Microsoft actively encouraging Visual Basic 6 developers to upgrade to VB .NET and to move away from DirectX 8 as time
Re: [Audyssey] Problem registering Ten Pin Alley, can anyone duplicate?
By the way, is this the only game for bowling? Regards, DARK LORD -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn Sent: Tuesday, 30 April 2013 11:42 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Problem registering Ten Pin Alley, can anyone duplicate? Here you go. http://help.dracoent.com/index.php?a=add HTH Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Apr 28, 2013, at 2:53 AM, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris i dont know where there is any way to send them any emails ,i am getting to the point i will just delete the copy that i have and count it as loss. your friend lee In a message dated 4/28/2013 5:48:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, christopher...@gmail.com writes: Lee please keep at it with Draconis. They are nothing but very helpful to me and I'm sure they will be to you. Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com On 28/04/2013 10:38, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris since then i paid for a new ten pin alley but i did not get any registeration info your friend lee In a message dated 4/27/2013 6:23:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, i...@dracoent.com writes: Hi Lee, Actually, you recently wrote to us because you lost your key. We do not replace registration keys anymore. We ask users in their registration email to please backup their registration information to a safe place. We were getting absolutely swamped with replacement key requests, and had to adopt that policy, since our older titles were never hardware locked. Sorry for the inconvenience. On Apr 27, 2013, at 5:46 PM, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris i ordered the game but i did not get the registration info . your friendlee In a message dated 4/27/2013 4:31:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, christopher...@gmail.com writes: Good evening all. I am not asking for help, since I am on to it with Draconis, but can anyone duplicate the following. 1. Order yourself the registration information for Ten Pin Alley. 2. Once you have received the registration information, copy exactly what is given, then paste it into the appropriate fields in the program. 3. At my end, it just will not work. I have heard of problems running this game under Windows Xp, but I am using Windows 7 64 bit so that shouldn't matter. Any responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark, I asked this before and I'll ask it again. How much are you willing to spend on Dosbox emulation? The thing is while I am sure there are a few developers like myself who have the technical skills to rewrite Dosbox from scratch in order to make it accessible it would take considerable time and energy. Given the time and effort involved in such an undertaking I'd probably would want to sell the Dos emulator to try and earn something for my labor. Otherwise I'd be better off spending my time on new games and/or other products that I could sell. I'm already up to my eyeballs in things to do so I don't know that I would really want to take on a project like that any time soon. I think your best option here is to learn how to setup a virtual machine using VMWare Player. No, it isn't easy, but once you do it you can back up the virtual machine to a hard drive and install it on one or more machines as needed. The real difficulty is creating the initial image for the virtual machine as that requires some sighted assistance. Of course, if you would prefer using an existing one that is always possible as well. Finally, regarding access what makes you think Windows 7 or Windows 8 is less accessible? I use Windows 7 every single day and it is totally accessible. I don't have any accessibility issues what so ever. So I was wondering why you continue saying things like worse access over all when I generally find access on Windows 7 very good. Cheers! On 4/30/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Kara. I do not blaime developers for the computing situation, (that is clearly microsoft's fault), but at the same time there is honestly some tention hear, and I've detected it from comments from Tom and Josh precisely about! supporting older systems and about people still using out of date things. My point in this discussion was to honestly and naturally explain the reasons why! I and others choose to use xp, and suggest that these are matters developers could assist with in part by making newer versions of windows a less unatractive option by working! on the things microsoft missed such as dosbox emulation, or just providing appropriate information Frankly everyone's lives would've been simpler if things had stayed with xp with mac as an alterantive, but since that is not the case, it would be good if people worked together on this rather than developers concerned over what will be supported where clashing with players not wishing to give up their old games and move on to newer os with less available and with worse access over all. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Problem registering Ten Pin Alley, can anyone duplicate?
I think so yes. I asked on other lists about bowlling games for the iPhone, and no one had a clue. So I assume yes this is the only bowling game. Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com On 30/04/2013 19:32, Dark Lord wrote: By the way, is this the only game for bowling? Regards, DARK LORD -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn Sent: Tuesday, 30 April 2013 11:42 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Problem registering Ten Pin Alley, can anyone duplicate? Here you go. http://help.dracoent.com/index.php?a=add HTH Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Apr 28, 2013, at 2:53 AM, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris i dont know where there is any way to send them any emails ,i am getting to the point i will just delete the copy that i have and count it as loss. your friend lee In a message dated 4/28/2013 5:48:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, christopher...@gmail.com writes: Lee please keep at it with Draconis. They are nothing but very helpful to me and I'm sure they will be to you. Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com On 28/04/2013 10:38, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris since then i paid for a new ten pin alley but i did not get any registeration info your friend lee In a message dated 4/27/2013 6:23:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, i...@dracoent.com writes: Hi Lee, Actually, you recently wrote to us because you lost your key. We do not replace registration keys anymore. We ask users in their registration email to please backup their registration information to a safe place. We were getting absolutely swamped with replacement key requests, and had to adopt that policy, since our older titles were never hardware locked. Sorry for the inconvenience. On Apr 27, 2013, at 5:46 PM, blindle...@aol.com wrote: chris i ordered the game but i did not get the registration info . your friendlee In a message dated 4/27/2013 4:31:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, christopher...@gmail.com writes: Good evening all. I am not asking for help, since I am on to it with Draconis, but can anyone duplicate the following. 1. Order yourself the registration information for Ten Pin Alley. 2. Once you have received the registration information, copy exactly what is given, then paste it into the appropriate fields in the program. 3. At my end, it just will not work. I have heard of problems running this game under Windows Xp, but I am using Windows 7 64 bit so that shouldn't matter. Any responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Chris. -- Christopher Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: challswor...@sky.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/@christopherh40 Find my blog at challsworth2.wordpress.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
iPhones are also extremely accessible. I use one on a daily basis. Other visually impaired people, however, cannot. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi Dark, I asked this before and I'll ask it again. How much are you willing to spend on Dosbox emulation? The thing is while I am sure there are a few developers like myself who have the technical skills to rewrite Dosbox from scratch in order to make it accessible it would take considerable time and energy. Given the time and effort involved in such an undertaking I'd probably would want to sell the Dos emulator to try and earn something for my labor. Otherwise I'd be better off spending my time on new games and/or other products that I could sell. I'm already up to my eyeballs in things to do so I don't know that I would really want to take on a project like that any time soon. I think your best option here is to learn how to setup a virtual machine using VMWare Player. No, it isn't easy, but once you do it you can back up the virtual machine to a hard drive and install it on one or more machines as needed. The real difficulty is creating the initial image for the virtual machine as that requires some sighted assistance. Of course, if you would prefer using an existing one that is always possible as well. Finally, regarding access what makes you think Windows 7 or Windows 8 is less accessible? I use Windows 7 every single day and it is totally accessible. I don't have any accessibility issues what so ever. So I was wondering why you continue saying things like worse access over all when I generally find access on Windows 7 very good. Cheers! On 4/30/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Kara. I do not blaime developers for the computing situation, (that is clearly microsoft's fault), but at the same time there is honestly some tention hear, and I've detected it from comments from Tom and Josh precisely about! supporting older systems and about people still using out of date things. My point in this discussion was to honestly and naturally explain the reasons why! I and others choose to use xp, and suggest that these are matters developers could assist with in part by making newer versions of windows a less unatractive option by working! on the things microsoft missed such as dosbox emulation, or just providing appropriate information Frankly everyone's lives would've been simpler if things had stayed with xp with mac as an alterantive, but since that is not the case, it would be good if people worked together on this rather than developers concerned over what will be supported where clashing with players not wishing to give up their old games and move on to newer os with less available and with worse access over all. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark, Developers aren't saying woohoo, let's force everyone to upgrade because the new stuff is just sooo much cooler. :) We spend a fair bit of time trying to figure out ways to make as many customers happy as possible, while ourselves, working in a changing environment. I think here, is where the issue lies. Developers do not have the ultimate say as to what happens in the industry. We are customers as well. The difference is that we are customers of different types of software. This is the software and tools which allow us to write code for our own customers. Does this make sense? there's not an animosity here, there is a real desire to make good and usable software but progress in the general computing fields changes how this is done and often how easily this is done. The only frustration you as visually impaired customers are hearing is that which you are sending out. Myself and others here would never dream of deliberately taking something you all enjoy away from you. Quite the opposite. :) It's just that we also need to work effectively in a changing software and hardware environment, which makes certain paths of development easier or more time-consuming, depending on what the customer wants or needs. Does this make sense?… Thanks so much for reading! Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Apr 30, 2013, at 9:08 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Charles.e i wouldnt' go that far, I do think it's a two sided problem ccombined with lack of support for older systems and microsoft's bad approach to ui's in post xp windows (or at least in 7), however I do get a little tired of developers constantly saying well microsoft is doing this that and the other and the new stuff is better so we must all upgrade to make better games Fundimentally, if 7 had the same ui as xp and same functionality, I'd upgrade like a shott and the same goes for others. Windows 8 I don't have an opinion on yet since on the one hand I don't like lack of customization in the Ui, on the other I do appreciate that microsoft are finally! doing something decent about access at the basic level, though how well this works in practice when we get down to the nuts and bolts I can't say having not ried a windows 8 system yet. beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Tom and all, Just adding to what Tom is saying here. This is a little long, so I hope you will all stick with me. This is also why I am a proponent of Apple's model. Apple iterates existing products along a trajectory that eliminates the perceived obsolescence technique. They only update the physical or user interface designs of their products infrequently, and there software upgrades are designed to improve the experience, rather than change it. The iPhone is a prime example. While Apple has added new features and capabilities to it, the system looks and works very much the same as it did when they first introduced it in 2007. This year, they are planning a UI overhaul, but even that has more to do with aesthetics, and the actual layout and functionality is expected to stay exactly the same. Since Apple does this, they keep older products on the market, steadily dropping their price as the cost of the older components goes down, but they still make a point to update the older products with software updates. For example, iOS 6, the current version of the software for the iPhone, still runs on the iPhone 3GS with most features working, even though the 3GS went on sale four years ago. This is quite remarkable in this industry. Macs are handled in much the same way. I used the same MacBook as my primary machine for 6 years, and it ran perfectly fine with the latest OS up until the day I replaced it. And boy, let me tell you, that thing took a beating. Taking this further, Draconis could have thrown some new sounds into ChangeReaction 2 and called it a new game, with basically all the same features and play of the original game, and tried to get users to upgrade that way. Instead, we wanted to give them something to make upgrading worth the cost, such as essentially two new games in addition to the original, a built-in tutorial system, etc. We're taking our model from Apple's lead which, despite Dark's protestations, is actually designed to benefit the users first and foremost. Apple's main philosophy is that, if you put the users and their experience first, customers will come to you. So far, it is working very well for them, and it is the philosophy we are employing as well. On Apr 30, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Charles, that's close enough. However, I don't believe anyone said it was right or particularly. fair. That's just the way business generally works. For example, when I took a marketing class in college we studied a marketing technique called perceived obsolescence. The way it works is you take an existing product and you find a way to repackage and resell it to the customer without having to spend much on developing a new product to replace it. So let's say you purchased a brand new computer from Del with an almond colored case, keyboard, mouse, and flat screen display. Six months later Del has parts left over from that run so they put them in a brand new case that is smaller, painted black, and has a matching USB keyboard, wireless mouse, and flat screen monitor. The motherboard, hard drive, sound card, etc inside the computer is exactly the same as you purchased but because of the nice new case, keyboard and mouse you might think you are getting something new when it is the same product in a slightly different form. A lot of what Microsoft does is for the same reasons. I don't know too many people who likes the ribbons in Microsoft Office and File Explorer etc but it looks different. I figure the primary reason they do it is because of perceived obsolescence. They can take a product like Wordpad, which has been around for years, and make it new just by taking out the menu bars, replacing them with ribbons, changing a few other user interface elements and packing it on their new OS as an updated version of the software when in reality the software hasn't changed. There isn't anything new we didn't have before like a spell checker, grammar checker, thesaurus, whatever, but it looks new and is marketed as such. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Tom. Given game availability, I'd be willing to pay a good 30 usd for a dosbox emulator, heck, I'd pay that just for eamon deluxe, though I agree with the rest of your projects it wouldn't be such a good thing. The reason I say windows 7 accessibility is worse is due to the several hours I spent with the system. stuff not stay where it wase intensive use of ribbons, less compartmentalized interfaces, less ability to open and close parts of the interface which may or may not be more useful etc. Remember, when i use the word accessible I don't just mean usable, but also useable with minimal effort. I could quite believe that a person could painstakingly learn the interface to windows 7 and the other programs, however that learning is far harder than xp due to the fluid nature of the interface, plus, from what I gather most people for windows 7 pretty much just rely upon the search box, which isn't really the same if your looking for say what games you have by a certain developer etc. To take one simple example, in outlook express to send a mail to a person, I just open the program tab to contacts, press the letter of a person's name and find it. in windows messenger I need to open the program, find the address book, find the specific tab for names, find the individual person, tab across to the mail address past lots of other info and options, go through lots of options that I don't want a conference message etc, then write in the appropriate fields. This is what I mean about the interface, rather than having a tidy interface where you can customize what is shown and how it is shown (columns, lists etc), in windows 7 it just seems everything is chucked at you at once, leaving you to wait through hundreds of icons, buttons, multi thread options, alternate views and god knows what. This is likely better for a sighted user since they don't have to open things and can see everything at the start, but for a blind user that is not the case. i would however be iterested in trying windows 8 with a touch screen since there the interface priorities change as I've experienced on an iphone, and I would not be surprised if the priorities of what makes a good interface for access change there from what they would be in pure speech. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Kara. that does make sense as regards devs being customers, but in that case perhaps as I said that is why this sort of dialogue helps, since developers have different reasons for prefering newer os and some players different reasons for preffering older, and short of kidnapping bill gates and forcing him to improve backwards compatibility we likely need to arrive at some reasonable solutions. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Josh. That's reasonable enough, and I do agree apple's developement model has advantages, --- even though i have not owned my iphone long enough to experience those, and even though there are still other aspects of apple's practice I am less a fan of (but that's a debate for another time). Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Draconis i...@dracoent.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows Hi Tom and all, Just adding to what Tom is saying here. This is a little long, so I hope you will all stick with me. This is also why I am a proponent of Apple's model. Apple iterates existing products along a trajectory that eliminates the perceived obsolescence technique. They only update the physical or user interface designs of their products infrequently, and there software upgrades are designed to improve the experience, rather than change it. The iPhone is a prime example. While Apple has added new features and capabilities to it, the system looks and works very much the same as it did when they first introduced it in 2007. This year, they are planning a UI overhaul, but even that has more to do with aesthetics, and the actual layout and functionality is expected to stay exactly the same. Since Apple does this, they keep older products on the market, steadily dropping their price as the cost of the older components goes down, but they still make a point to update the older products with software updates. For example, iOS 6, the current version of the software for the iPhone, still runs on the iPhone 3GS with most features working, even though the 3GS went on sale four years ago. This is quite remarkable in this industry. Macs are handled in much the same way. I used the same MacBook as my primary machine for 6 years, and it ran perfectly fine with the latest OS up until the day I replaced it. And boy, let me tell you, that thing took a beating. Taking this further, Draconis could have thrown some new sounds into ChangeReaction 2 and called it a new game, with basically all the same features and play of the original game, and tried to get users to upgrade that way. Instead, we wanted to give them something to make upgrading worth the cost, such as essentially two new games in addition to the original, a built-in tutorial system, etc. We're taking our model from Apple's lead which, despite Dark's protestations, is actually designed to benefit the users first and foremost. Apple's main philosophy is that, if you put the users and their experience first, customers will come to you. So far, it is working very well for them, and it is the philosophy we are employing as well. On Apr 30, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Charles, that's close enough. However, I don't believe anyone said it was right or particularly. fair. That's just the way business generally works. For example, when I took a marketing class in college we studied a marketing technique called perceived obsolescence. The way it works is you take an existing product and you find a way to repackage and resell it to the customer without having to spend much on developing a new product to replace it. So let's say you purchased a brand new computer from Del with an almond colored case, keyboard, mouse, and flat screen display. Six months later Del has parts left over from that run so they put them in a brand new case that is smaller, painted black, and has a matching USB keyboard, wireless mouse, and flat screen monitor. The motherboard, hard drive, sound card, etc inside the computer is exactly the same as you purchased but because of the nice new case, keyboard and mouse you might think you are getting something new when it is the same product in a slightly different form. A lot of what Microsoft does is for the same reasons. I don't know too many people who likes the ribbons in Microsoft Office and File Explorer etc but it looks different. I figure the primary reason they do it is because of perceived obsolescence. They can take a product like Wordpad, which has been around for years, and make it new just by taking out the menu bars, replacing them with ribbons, changing a few other user interface elements and packing it on their new OS as an updated version of the software when in reality the software hasn't changed. There isn't anything new we didn't have before like a spell checker, grammar checker, thesaurus, whatever, but it looks new and is marketed as such. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you
Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Charles, Well, to begin with Windows Live Mail and Microsoft Office 2010 are still quite accessible. Yes, the user interface is quite a bit different on Windows 7, but different does not mean inaccessible. Once you learn how to use the ribbons they are just accessible as the pull down menus. As to why Microsoft changed their user interface I can't say. I am not one of their developers, nor am I a part of their design teams. All I can say is they changed it because someone at Microsoft thought it was a good idea, and what you or I think about it doesn't matter to them. The bottom line is you are looking at this from the point of view of an end user, which is natural, but until you look at it from their perspective you will never understand. It is simply because Microsoft is out to make and sell new versions of their software and new user interfaces is one way they make money on older software.. Cheers! On 4/30/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: If Outlook Express and versions of Microsoft Word that use pulldown menus that are accessible to all work fine, why scrap them and incorporate new programs that are less accessible? Or am I still missing something from the point of view of an end user? -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
