Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Hi Desiree, Well, I will agree that technology is powerful and must be used responsibly. That said, it is something of a two edged sword. On one hand it can be used to access all kinds of objectionable content that a parent may not want their child exposed to. On the other hand it can be a very good tool for learning, for staying in contact with friends, and for accessing perfectly age appropriate material. It all comes down to how a parent teaches their child to use the technology, and if they monitor the content their child is accessing. For example, I do have a son who is now 10. It certainly can be trying at times, but I think it is certainly manageable. There are all kinds of parental safeguards one can use to make the internet relatively safe, and if one wants to know where their child is going on the web just look at the browser history to see where they have been and what they are looking at. If by chance a child is accessing some truly objectionable content then that would be the time to have a chat about that content and can setup extra safeguards to make sure the child does not go back to those places. As to the point of getting around filters and blocks that depends on how good the filters and blocks are. Unfortunately,, far too many parents are technologically impaired, not skilled computer users, so many not install and setup the best filters and blocks for their children. Therefore if a child is reasonably skilled, perhaps more skilled than the parents, he/she can easily get around such safeguards. So I see this as an issue of proper training and education of how to safeguard a child from accessing the wrong kind of content and media on the internet. Cheers! On 5/1/15, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I couldn't agree more with you. This is one of the many reasons I've decided I don't want to be a parent. Technology, as it is today, is much too powerful to be placed in any child's hands. In the future, it will only get worse. As I said, even with filters and blocks and so on in place, it is extremely easy to get around them. Then you have a kid who's going to be exposed to a hell of a lot more than just this one audio game. I would say that's a lot more worrying than the content this game offers, no matter what your stance is on it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Hi Desiry. Actually I should ask one of my friends about this. He has a daughter who is currently five. Thus far, he and his wife have been able to, well if not monitor what she gets hold of, at least be around to explain any possible issues, which goes as much for say Cinderella being a bit dim for sitting on her rear waiting for the prince to turn up, as much as it goes for violence or anything similar. They're both very open people so I don't believe they had to actively ban her from anything yet orget draconian, though sinse my friend is a software engineer I'd be interested to know what his thoughts on this matter are. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Hi, I couldn't agree more with you. This is one of the many reasons I've decided I don't want to be a parent. Technology, as it is today, is much too powerful to be placed in any child's hands. In the future, it will only get worse. As I said, even with filters and blocks and so on in place, it is extremely easy to get around them. Then you have a kid who's going to be exposed to a hell of a lot more than just this one audio game. I would say that's a lot more worrying than the content this game offers, no matter what your stance is on it. On 5/1/2015 11:02 AM, Paul Lemm wrote: Hi Jeremy I do have to say as I think someone else has pointed out, if a child is old enough to be allowed on a computer unsupervised to download and view what they choose then there are a lot more worrying things online than a violent audio game. Just on uTube alone there is I'm sure more graphic and inappropriate content which is just a click or 2 away from anyone accessing a pc. I think this is the responsibility of a parent to teach their children what they are allowed to view online, I think the fact that the game warns people is amble to warn anyone of what is to be expected and people can choose to either download or not and if people choose to ignore the warning that is their choice and if it's a child too young to be exposed to this kind of game I question whether they should be allowed to freely view the web unsupervised as mentioned previously there is a lot more not only inappropriate but dangerous content accessible online. also with grand theft auto that to can be brought online through ps online or the xbox store either as the game or as a free demo and although I haven't checked I'm pretty sure there will only be a warning there Regards Paul -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Brown Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 11:50 AM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and paypal accounts In response to the points about physical CD's versus download and/or paypal accounts. I was not necessarily suggesting that a physical CD be involved, merely a code key that would have to be mailed separately. However, as I also said in the original post, I don't expect VGStorm to do either. It is extra cost that would have to be passed on to consumers, and for a small company like VGStorm that's an unacceptable cost. I fully understand both the reality of the new gaming environment, and the position of Aaron's company; there's a fine balance between how you deliver games, how much they cost, and what precautions you have to take to avoid cracking, in this case improper download by minors, etc. I offered two suggestions. Neither is a super practical one. However, that said, I do not think that as game developers we have to say everyone else markets graphically violent games, therefore as long as I have a warning, I've done my bit. With a physical game, such as Grand Theft Auto which several people have brought up, in most places, a kid can't just walk in and buy the game. They're usually behind a counter, in a locked case, etc. That's not to say that kids do not play them without parental supervision, but I, like Thomas, monitor what my kids do, and I like it when companies at least produce an illusion of controlling who their products go to. As to Paypal, honestly, it's been years since I set up a Paypal account, and my memory of it is hazy. However, I know a lot of kids have bank accounts. Just as with anything else, it could be finagled. However, I think you're missing my essential point here. Once someone buys the game, they've gone through some effort either in getting a credit card by hook or by crook, or by accomplishing the goal some other way. My issue, isn't so much with the purchase as with the fact that this game is extremely violent, starts off with a extremely anti-social incident as the motivation for the entire rest of the game, and not only can anyone who downloads it play that sequence, but they are forced to to play the rest of the game. I'm not worried about the 10 year old kid who plays this game after buying it because they dupe their parents. I'm pointing out that any 10 year old can download and play the game. I feel that any developer, myself included, needs to consider these sorts of things when developing a game. If the game is free to download in either a demo mode or a full version, and it contains graphic content, no matter yur definition of minor or adult, you have to realize that people are downloading it. A warning message probably exacerbates this more than it stops people. It would have for me when I was younger. A friend of mine and I cracked Leisure Suit Larry back in the eighties precisely because we weren't supposed to. If the first sequence were modified or removed, this game would still bother me for the violence, but it would have set off my warning
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Hi Desiry. As I recall the previous objections were more in the matter of adverse reactions to Jim's adult games than actual debates, but I do believe it was partly for that reason why Jim changed his site, which of course even though as I said jim's adult games are absolutely out for me I was aware of sinse I had to update the audiogames.net database links for them. Beware the grue! Dark. There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is vast and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than even the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. - Original Message - From: Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts Hi Dark, Fair enough. I had actually forgotten that the adult games were on a separate part of Jim Kitchen's site. It wasn't always that way, and, since I don't personally have an interest in those types of games, I really didn't realize they had been moved. So I'll stand corrected on that point. I don't know, it just seems a bit odd to me that this is the first time I've ever seen a debate over whether an audio game should have been released or not due to its content. Perhaps there were others, but I wasn't paying attention, or wasn't on the email list or the forum to see them play out. On 5/1/2015 4:07 PM, dark wrote: @Desiry, in fairness to Jeremy his objection to the game is based on it's actual content and the motivation of it's characters, not just it's depictions of violence. Jim kitchin's games are all clearly marked as adult, indeed they're in a separate part of his site from his other games and on audiogames.net they're listed as Adult xxx with clear warnings in the description, and yet actually we have still had a couple of complaints (though I have a sneaking suspicion those were from people who downloaded the games without reading what they were before hand). As a side scroller, even as a side scroller with weapons and action,Psychostrike is rather more innocuous, sinse the area under scrutiny is the senselessness of the slaughterings and crimes involved, not intrinsically their depiction. I'm not going to get into the debate again about this, but in fairness I can see why perhaps a more prominant warning on site might be useful, perhaps one contained in some of the links, eg list the game as psycho strike game with extreme violence or have a confirmation message box with the warning text somewhere rather than listing the game next to other innocuous titles like paladin of the sky and adventure at C:. Once the warning is displayed however, what people do is their affair. Heck, I suffer genophobia and could not play one of jim Kitchin's adult games without extreme discomfort, but thanks to the warnings I have never had to, either deliberately or by accident, which is really all you can say. All the best, Dark. There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is vast and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than even the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. - Original Message - From: Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts I'm trying to remember which game it is that I've played that makes you agree that you're over 18 each time you play it. That's going to bother me now. It's an audio game, I believe, and while I think that's overkill, maybe a similar thing could be put in place in this game as well. I also have to ask this, why didn't anyone ever complain about the content in some of Jim Kitchen's sexually explicit games? Those games are free, are very small downloads, and are actually very easy to hide, because they're buried in a mess of other games inside a rather disorganized directory structure. No offense intended by saying that, I'm just stating a fact. But I apologize for being blunt. Anyway, I would argue that children have probably downloaded these games, too, but I've never heard a peep about it. Same with Slender, the Lost Vision. This game, if memory serves, was released shortly after the incident which Dark referenced in a previous message in which a girl was nearly killed because her friends thought they were going to please Slenderman. Again, this game is free, relatively small, and easy to access. So why is Psycho Strike getting a bad rap when other questionable content has been released in the past? Maybe I just didn't hear about similar objections that were raised? On 5/1/2015 11:54 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Paul, You raise some valid points. If a child is old enough to be unsupervised on the internet then they are probably old enough to decide for themselves weather or not to download a certain game
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Desiree , Unfortunately, what you say is true. No matter what protections are put in place, no matter how many hoops a person has to jump through, there is absolutely no way to insure someone who is under age etc can't get the content. There is just no way to do that without some extremely draconian measures, and even then there are ways around those safety measures. The best one can settle for is a system in which protects the developer and makes the person downloading the content responsible for his or her own actions. Cheers! On 5/1/15, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Thomas, I can respect your position about this, and I also think that most kids shouldn't be playing a game of this nature. I think what I'm objecting to is more the fact that, no matter how many hoops you make someone jump through, people are going to access it who probably shouldn't. So the whole debate is actually pretty pointless, and is serving no real purpose. I was merely stating my opinion, because I think that, even if I strongly disagree with the way Jeremy chose to bring this up on list in the first place, you both are entitled to feel the way you do about the game and its content. It's not for everyone, that's for sure. As for the justification, it makes sense that a storyline should have been included in the game, but before you start, it says, for reasons only known to you or something to that effect. Which I took to mean, fill in the blank with your own scenario. Which is exactly what I did. I'm not saying that should make others feel better if they find the content objectionable, but for me at least, I could sit here and come up with 20 different scenarios about why this character did what he or she did, each one crazier than the last. It's part of what I enjoy about the game, to be honest. As I said to Dark in a previous message, I realized my error about the adult games on Jim Kitchen's website. It had just been a long time since I'd looked at the site, and I didn't know they had been moved. So I apologize. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Hi Jeremy I do have to say as I think someone else has pointed out, if a child is old enough to be allowed on a computer unsupervised to download and view what they choose then there are a lot more worrying things online than a violent audio game. Just on uTube alone there is I'm sure more graphic and inappropriate content which is just a click or 2 away from anyone accessing a pc. I think this is the responsibility of a parent to teach their children what they are allowed to view online, I think the fact that the game warns people is amble to warn anyone of what is to be expected and people can choose to either download or not and if people choose to ignore the warning that is their choice and if it's a child too young to be exposed to this kind of game I question whether they should be allowed to freely view the web unsupervised as mentioned previously there is a lot more not only inappropriate but dangerous content accessible online. also with grand theft auto that to can be brought online through ps online or the xbox store either as the game or as a free demo and although I haven't checked I'm pretty sure there will only be a warning there Regards Paul -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Brown Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 11:50 AM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and paypal accounts In response to the points about physical CD's versus download and/or paypal accounts. I was not necessarily suggesting that a physical CD be involved, merely a code key that would have to be mailed separately. However, as I also said in the original post, I don't expect VGStorm to do either. It is extra cost that would have to be passed on to consumers, and for a small company like VGStorm that's an unacceptable cost. I fully understand both the reality of the new gaming environment, and the position of Aaron's company; there's a fine balance between how you deliver games, how much they cost, and what precautions you have to take to avoid cracking, in this case improper download by minors, etc. I offered two suggestions. Neither is a super practical one. However, that said, I do not think that as game developers we have to say everyone else markets graphically violent games, therefore as long as I have a warning, I've done my bit. With a physical game, such as Grand Theft Auto which several people have brought up, in most places, a kid can't just walk in and buy the game. They're usually behind a counter, in a locked case, etc. That's not to say that kids do not play them without parental supervision, but I, like Thomas, monitor what my kids do, and I like it when companies at least produce an illusion of controlling who their products go to. As to Paypal, honestly, it's been years since I set up a Paypal account, and my memory of it is hazy. However, I know a lot of kids have bank accounts. Just as with anything else, it could be finagled. However, I think you're missing my essential point here. Once someone buys the game, they've gone through some effort either in getting a credit card by hook or by crook, or by accomplishing the goal some other way. My issue, isn't so much with the purchase as with the fact that this game is extremely violent, starts off with a extremely anti-social incident as the motivation for the entire rest of the game, and not only can anyone who downloads it play that sequence, but they are forced to to play the rest of the game. I'm not worried about the 10 year old kid who plays this game after buying it because they dupe their parents. I'm pointing out that any 10 year old can download and play the game. I feel that any developer, myself included, needs to consider these sorts of things when developing a game. If the game is free to download in either a demo mode or a full version, and it contains graphic content, no matter yur definition of minor or adult, you have to realize that people are downloading it. A warning message probably exacerbates this more than it stops people. It would have for me when I was younger. A friend of mine and I cracked Leisure Suit Larry back in the eighties precisely because we weren't supposed to. If the first sequence were modified or removed, this game would still bother me for the violence, but it would have set off my warning sensors a lot less. Thanks for listening yet again:) Take care, Jeremy On 4/29/15, gamers-requ...@audyssey.org gamers-requ...@audyssey.org wrote: Send Gamers mailing list submissions to gamers@audyssey.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gamers-requ...@audyssey.org You can reach the person managing the list at gamers-ow...@audyssey.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Hi Paul, You raise some valid points. If a child is old enough to be unsupervised on the internet then they are probably old enough to decide for themselves weather or not to download a certain game or view certain content. In such a case the best a site owner or game developer can do is make appropriate warnings as to the content being viewed. For example, most pornography sites have a page that pops up every time the site is accessed letting the user know that the site contains sexually explicit content and the person entering must be at least 18. If they click the I agree button and enter the site knowing what content is about to be viewed the legal responsibility becomes that of the person doing the browsing not the site owner or owners. With games there is usually a similar warning in place. In adult interactive fiction, for example, it always comes up with a disclaimer that prompts the user to enter yes or no if they agree to the terms. After the user types yes and agrees to the terms of service it becomes his or her own responsibility what to do with the content. I think a similar warning system could be implemented in games like Psycho Strike that serves the same purpose. When the game is first launched it will let the user know this is an extremely violent game, is not suitable for people under 16, and have them agree to the terms of service. After that there is really little anyone can do to make sure that someone who is age appropriate plays the game. Cheers! On 5/1/15, Paul Lemm paul.lem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jeremy I do have to say as I think someone else has pointed out, if a child is old enough to be allowed on a computer unsupervised to download and view what they choose then there are a lot more worrying things online than a violent audio game. Just on uTube alone there is I'm sure more graphic and inappropriate content which is just a click or 2 away from anyone accessing a pc. I think this is the responsibility of a parent to teach their children what they are allowed to view online, I think the fact that the game warns people is amble to warn anyone of what is to be expected and people can choose to either download or not and if people choose to ignore the warning that is their choice and if it's a child too young to be exposed to this kind of game I question whether they should be allowed to freely view the web unsupervised as mentioned previously there is a lot more not only inappropriate but dangerous content accessible online. also with grand theft auto that to can be brought online through ps online or the xbox store either as the game or as a free demo and although I haven't checked I'm pretty sure there will only be a warning there Regards Paul --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Hi Thomas, That's a pretty good idea,I guess if you have something like that which comes up before you play the game that you have to agree to as you said it then puts the responsibility on the person agreeing to the disclaimer also it prevents people saying they missed the warning on the website. All this being said I have to confess to not actually playing this game yet, I've downloaded but just haven't had the time to try it so am looking forward to trying it after all the hype. I guess at the end of the day for me it's not so much about the content of a game it can be either a violent or nonviolent , strategic or creative game I really enjoy anything if it's a good game, well written with lots of playability I'll play and enjoy it for the good game it is ,a bit like grand theft auto which was a favourite game of mine years ago, it wasn't my favourite because of the violence but due to the game play, the freedom to explore where you wanted and all the challenges and hidden/unlockable type content that the game offered Paul -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 4:55 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts Hi Paul, You raise some valid points. If a child is old enough to be unsupervised on the internet then they are probably old enough to decide for themselves weather or not to download a certain game or view certain content. In such a case the best a site owner or game developer can do is make appropriate warnings as to the content being viewed. For example, most pornography sites have a page that pops up every time the site is accessed letting the user know that the site contains sexually explicit content and the person entering must be at least 18. If they click the I agree button and enter the site knowing what content is about to be viewed the legal responsibility becomes that of the person doing the browsing not the site owner or owners. With games there is usually a similar warning in place. In adult interactive fiction, for example, it always comes up with a disclaimer that prompts the user to enter yes or no if they agree to the terms. After the user types yes and agrees to the terms of service it becomes his or her own responsibility what to do with the content. I think a similar warning system could be implemented in games like Psycho Strike that serves the same purpose. When the game is first launched it will let the user know this is an extremely violent game, is not suitable for people under 16, and have them agree to the terms of service. After that there is really little anyone can do to make sure that someone who is age appropriate plays the game. Cheers! On 5/1/15, Paul Lemm paul.lem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jeremy I do have to say as I think someone else has pointed out, if a child is old enough to be allowed on a computer unsupervised to download and view what they choose then there are a lot more worrying things online than a violent audio game. Just on uTube alone there is I'm sure more graphic and inappropriate content which is just a click or 2 away from anyone accessing a pc. I think this is the responsibility of a parent to teach their children what they are allowed to view online, I think the fact that the game warns people is amble to warn anyone of what is to be expected and people can choose to either download or not and if people choose to ignore the warning that is their choice and if it's a child too young to be exposed to this kind of game I question whether they should be allowed to freely view the web unsupervised as mentioned previously there is a lot more not only inappropriate but dangerous content accessible online. also with grand theft auto that to can be brought online through ps online or the xbox store either as the game or as a free demo and although I haven't checked I'm pretty sure there will only be a warning there Regards Paul --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
@Desiry, in fairness to Jeremy his objection to the game is based on it's actual content and the motivation of it's characters, not just it's depictions of violence. Jim kitchin's games are all clearly marked as adult, indeed they're in a separate part of his site from his other games and on audiogames.net they're listed as Adult xxx with clear warnings in the description, and yet actually we have still had a couple of complaints (though I have a sneaking suspicion those were from people who downloaded the games without reading what they were before hand). As a side scroller, even as a side scroller with weapons and action,Psychostrike is rather more innocuous, sinse the area under scrutiny is the senselessness of the slaughterings and crimes involved, not intrinsically their depiction. I'm not going to get into the debate again about this, but in fairness I can see why perhaps a more prominant warning on site might be useful, perhaps one contained in some of the links, eg list the game as psycho strike game with extreme violence or have a confirmation message box with the warning text somewhere rather than listing the game next to other innocuous titles like paladin of the sky and adventure at C:. Once the warning is displayed however, what people do is their affair. Heck, I suffer genophobia and could not play one of jim Kitchin's adult games without extreme discomfort, but thanks to the warnings I have never had to, either deliberately or by accident, which is really all you can say. All the best, Dark. There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is vast and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than even the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. - Original Message - From: Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts I'm trying to remember which game it is that I've played that makes you agree that you're over 18 each time you play it. That's going to bother me now. It's an audio game, I believe, and while I think that's overkill, maybe a similar thing could be put in place in this game as well. I also have to ask this, why didn't anyone ever complain about the content in some of Jim Kitchen's sexually explicit games? Those games are free, are very small downloads, and are actually very easy to hide, because they're buried in a mess of other games inside a rather disorganized directory structure. No offense intended by saying that, I'm just stating a fact. But I apologize for being blunt. Anyway, I would argue that children have probably downloaded these games, too, but I've never heard a peep about it. Same with Slender, the Lost Vision. This game, if memory serves, was released shortly after the incident which Dark referenced in a previous message in which a girl was nearly killed because her friends thought they were going to please Slenderman. Again, this game is free, relatively small, and easy to access. So why is Psycho Strike getting a bad rap when other questionable content has been released in the past? Maybe I just didn't hear about similar objections that were raised? On 5/1/2015 11:54 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Paul, You raise some valid points. If a child is old enough to be unsupervised on the internet then they are probably old enough to decide for themselves weather or not to download a certain game or view certain content. In such a case the best a site owner or game developer can do is make appropriate warnings as to the content being viewed. For example, most pornography sites have a page that pops up every time the site is accessed letting the user know that the site contains sexually explicit content and the person entering must be at least 18. If they click the I agree button and enter the site knowing what content is about to be viewed the legal responsibility becomes that of the person doing the browsing not the site owner or owners. With games there is usually a similar warning in place. In adult interactive fiction, for example, it always comes up with a disclaimer that prompts the user to enter yes or no if they agree to the terms. After the user types yes and agrees to the terms of service it becomes his or her own responsibility what to do with the content. I think a similar warning system could be implemented in games like Psycho Strike that serves the same purpose. When the game is first launched it will let the user know this is an extremely violent game, is not suitable for people under 16, and have them agree to the terms of service. After that there is really little anyone can do to make sure that someone who is age appropriate plays the game. Cheers! On 5/1/15, Paul Lemm paul.lem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jeremy I do have to say as I think someone else has pointed out, if a child is old enough to be allowed
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
I'm trying to remember which game it is that I've played that makes you agree that you're over 18 each time you play it. That's going to bother me now. It's an audio game, I believe, and while I think that's overkill, maybe a similar thing could be put in place in this game as well. I also have to ask this, why didn't anyone ever complain about the content in some of Jim Kitchen's sexually explicit games? Those games are free, are very small downloads, and are actually very easy to hide, because they're buried in a mess of other games inside a rather disorganized directory structure. No offense intended by saying that, I'm just stating a fact. But I apologize for being blunt. Anyway, I would argue that children have probably downloaded these games, too, but I've never heard a peep about it. Same with Slender, the Lost Vision. This game, if memory serves, was released shortly after the incident which Dark referenced in a previous message in which a girl was nearly killed because her friends thought they were going to please Slenderman. Again, this game is free, relatively small, and easy to access. So why is Psycho Strike getting a bad rap when other questionable content has been released in the past? Maybe I just didn't hear about similar objections that were raised? On 5/1/2015 11:54 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Paul, You raise some valid points. If a child is old enough to be unsupervised on the internet then they are probably old enough to decide for themselves weather or not to download a certain game or view certain content. In such a case the best a site owner or game developer can do is make appropriate warnings as to the content being viewed. For example, most pornography sites have a page that pops up every time the site is accessed letting the user know that the site contains sexually explicit content and the person entering must be at least 18. If they click the I agree button and enter the site knowing what content is about to be viewed the legal responsibility becomes that of the person doing the browsing not the site owner or owners. With games there is usually a similar warning in place. In adult interactive fiction, for example, it always comes up with a disclaimer that prompts the user to enter yes or no if they agree to the terms. After the user types yes and agrees to the terms of service it becomes his or her own responsibility what to do with the content. I think a similar warning system could be implemented in games like Psycho Strike that serves the same purpose. When the game is first launched it will let the user know this is an extremely violent game, is not suitable for people under 16, and have them agree to the terms of service. After that there is really little anyone can do to make sure that someone who is age appropriate plays the game. Cheers! On 5/1/15, Paul Lemm paul.lem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jeremy I do have to say as I think someone else has pointed out, if a child is old enough to be allowed on a computer unsupervised to download and view what they choose then there are a lot more worrying things online than a violent audio game. Just on uTube alone there is I'm sure more graphic and inappropriate content which is just a click or 2 away from anyone accessing a pc. I think this is the responsibility of a parent to teach their children what they are allowed to view online, I think the fact that the game warns people is amble to warn anyone of what is to be expected and people can choose to either download or not and if people choose to ignore the warning that is their choice and if it's a child too young to be exposed to this kind of game I question whether they should be allowed to freely view the web unsupervised as mentioned previously there is a lot more not only inappropriate but dangerous content accessible online. also with grand theft auto that to can be brought online through ps online or the xbox store either as the game or as a free demo and although I haven't checked I'm pretty sure there will only be a warning there Regards Paul --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Hi all, I just wanted to chime in with a quick word regarding the warning on the website. We feel that the warning is clear, easy to understand and prominent enough to not be missed. It is in the original post on both this list and the audiogames.net forum, and on the website before you download the game. We feel that having you click a button to agree that you are 16 or older would not really serve any useful purpose since the warning is there in black and white so to speak. In short, we have done all that we can reasonably be expected to do to make people aware of the nature of the content in the game, and anything beyond that is up to the individual. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall On 5/1/2015 10:07 PM, dark wrote: @Desiry, in fairness to Jeremy his objection to the game is based on it's actual content and the motivation of it's characters, not just it's depictions of violence. Jim kitchin's games are all clearly marked as adult, indeed they're in a separate part of his site from his other games and on audiogames.net they're listed as Adult xxx with clear warnings in the description, and yet actually we have still had a couple of complaints (though I have a sneaking suspicion those were from people who downloaded the games without reading what they were before hand). As a side scroller, even as a side scroller with weapons and action,Psychostrike is rather more innocuous, sinse the area under scrutiny is the senselessness of the slaughterings and crimes involved, not intrinsically their depiction. I'm not going to get into the debate again about this, but in fairness I can see why perhaps a more prominant warning on site might be useful, perhaps one contained in some of the links, eg list the game as psycho strike game with extreme violence or have a confirmation message box with the warning text somewhere rather than listing the game next to other innocuous titles like paladin of the sky and adventure at C:. Once the warning is displayed however, what people do is their affair. Heck, I suffer genophobia and could not play one of jim Kitchin's adult games without extreme discomfort, but thanks to the warnings I have never had to, either deliberately or by accident, which is really all you can say. All the best, Dark. There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is vast and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than even the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. - Original Message - From: Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts I'm trying to remember which game it is that I've played that makes you agree that you're over 18 each time you play it. That's going to bother me now. It's an audio game, I believe, and while I think that's overkill, maybe a similar thing could be put in place in this game as well. I also have to ask this, why didn't anyone ever complain about the content in some of Jim Kitchen's sexually explicit games? Those games are free, are very small downloads, and are actually very easy to hide, because they're buried in a mess of other games inside a rather disorganized directory structure. No offense intended by saying that, I'm just stating a fact. But I apologize for being blunt. Anyway, I would argue that children have probably downloaded these games, too, but I've never heard a peep about it. Same with Slender, the Lost Vision. This game, if memory serves, was released shortly after the incident which Dark referenced in a previous message in which a girl was nearly killed because her friends thought they were going to please Slenderman. Again, this game is free, relatively small, and easy to access. So why is Psycho Strike getting a bad rap when other questionable content has been released in the past? Maybe I just didn't hear about similar objections that were raised? On 5/1/2015 11:54 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Paul, You raise some valid points. If a child is old enough to be unsupervised on the internet then they are probably old enough to decide for themselves weather or not to download a certain game or view certain content. In such a case the best a site owner or game developer can do is make appropriate warnings as to the content being viewed. For example, most pornography sites have a page that pops up every time the site is accessed letting the user know that the site contains sexually explicit content and the person entering must be at least 18. If they click the I agree button and enter the site knowing what content is about to be viewed the legal responsibility becomes that of the person doing the browsing not the site owner or owners. With games there is usually a similar warning in place. In adult interactive fiction, for example, it always comes up with a disclaimer that prompts the user
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Hi Dark, Fair enough. I had actually forgotten that the adult games were on a separate part of Jim Kitchen's site. It wasn't always that way, and, since I don't personally have an interest in those types of games, I really didn't realize they had been moved. So I'll stand corrected on that point. I don't know, it just seems a bit odd to me that this is the first time I've ever seen a debate over whether an audio game should have been released or not due to its content. Perhaps there were others, but I wasn't paying attention, or wasn't on the email list or the forum to see them play out. On 5/1/2015 4:07 PM, dark wrote: @Desiry, in fairness to Jeremy his objection to the game is based on it's actual content and the motivation of it's characters, not just it's depictions of violence. Jim kitchin's games are all clearly marked as adult, indeed they're in a separate part of his site from his other games and on audiogames.net they're listed as Adult xxx with clear warnings in the description, and yet actually we have still had a couple of complaints (though I have a sneaking suspicion those were from people who downloaded the games without reading what they were before hand). As a side scroller, even as a side scroller with weapons and action,Psychostrike is rather more innocuous, sinse the area under scrutiny is the senselessness of the slaughterings and crimes involved, not intrinsically their depiction. I'm not going to get into the debate again about this, but in fairness I can see why perhaps a more prominant warning on site might be useful, perhaps one contained in some of the links, eg list the game as psycho strike game with extreme violence or have a confirmation message box with the warning text somewhere rather than listing the game next to other innocuous titles like paladin of the sky and adventure at C:. Once the warning is displayed however, what people do is their affair. Heck, I suffer genophobia and could not play one of jim Kitchin's adult games without extreme discomfort, but thanks to the warnings I have never had to, either deliberately or by accident, which is really all you can say. All the best, Dark. There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is vast and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than even the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. - Original Message - From: Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts I'm trying to remember which game it is that I've played that makes you agree that you're over 18 each time you play it. That's going to bother me now. It's an audio game, I believe, and while I think that's overkill, maybe a similar thing could be put in place in this game as well. I also have to ask this, why didn't anyone ever complain about the content in some of Jim Kitchen's sexually explicit games? Those games are free, are very small downloads, and are actually very easy to hide, because they're buried in a mess of other games inside a rather disorganized directory structure. No offense intended by saying that, I'm just stating a fact. But I apologize for being blunt. Anyway, I would argue that children have probably downloaded these games, too, but I've never heard a peep about it. Same with Slender, the Lost Vision. This game, if memory serves, was released shortly after the incident which Dark referenced in a previous message in which a girl was nearly killed because her friends thought they were going to please Slenderman. Again, this game is free, relatively small, and easy to access. So why is Psycho Strike getting a bad rap when other questionable content has been released in the past? Maybe I just didn't hear about similar objections that were raised? On 5/1/2015 11:54 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Paul, You raise some valid points. If a child is old enough to be unsupervised on the internet then they are probably old enough to decide for themselves weather or not to download a certain game or view certain content. In such a case the best a site owner or game developer can do is make appropriate warnings as to the content being viewed. For example, most pornography sites have a page that pops up every time the site is accessed letting the user know that the site contains sexually explicit content and the person entering must be at least 18. If they click the I agree button and enter the site knowing what content is about to be viewed the legal responsibility becomes that of the person doing the browsing not the site owner or owners. With games there is usually a similar warning in place. In adult interactive fiction, for example, it always comes up with a disclaimer that prompts the user to enter yes or no if they agree to the terms. After the user types yes and agrees to the terms of service
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Desiree, I think during the debate we had on list a couple of days ago Jeremy's actual point got lost in the discussion. The basic point he was getting at was there was a lot of senseless violence without any kind of justification or reason for it. When you enter the party it gives a simple statement to the effect you don't' know why but you just started killing people at a party. His point was that is no justification, no reason to, go mindlessly kill 10 people. If he plays a game he wants to know why he is doing it, and have some better justification for it. In my personal case I was objecting more to the violence itself. Like Jeremy I'd like to have some better justification or reason to kill people, even virtual people, than just because I decided to go do it for some unknown reason. I also think it is a poor game design, and should be corrected. Moreover while I was playing I just felt uncomfortable playing the game because in my mind it was wrong, I felt dirty, and uneasy about mindlessly going around killing people. I don't feel that way when fighting my way through hoards of zombies, robots, or some other non-human enemy so my objection is more about the ethical conflict I had with playing the game. As for Jim Kitchen's games they aren't mixed in with his other games. He has appropriately moved them onto a page of their own and there is no way for someone to download one of his games without knowing they are adult content. So you seem to be slightly misinformed about where they are located on his site. In any case I am unsure why they haven't generated more debate. The only thing is I figure the adult members of this list and the Audio Games Forum don't find them that objectionable. I certainly don't have any objections over them and wouldn't have any reason to complain myself. Cheers! On 5/1/15, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: I'm trying to remember which game it is that I've played that makes you agree that you're over 18 each time you play it. That's going to bother me now. It's an audio game, I believe, and while I think that's overkill, maybe a similar thing could be put in place in this game as well. I also have to ask this, why didn't anyone ever complain about the content in some of Jim Kitchen's sexually explicit games? Those games are free, are very small downloads, and are actually very easy to hide, because they're buried in a mess of other games inside a rather disorganized directory structure. No offense intended by saying that, I'm just stating a fact. But I apologize for being blunt. Anyway, I would argue that children have probably downloaded these games, too, but I've never heard a peep about it. Same with Slender, the Lost Vision. This game, if memory serves, was released shortly after the incident which Dark referenced in a previous message in which a girl was nearly killed because her friends thought they were going to please Slenderman. Again, this game is free, relatively small, and easy to access. So why is Psycho Strike getting a bad rap when other questionable content has been released in the past? Maybe I just didn't hear about similar objections that were raised? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and PayPal accounts
Hi Thomas, I can respect your position about this, and I also think that most kids shouldn't be playing a game of this nature. I think what I'm objecting to is more the fact that, no matter how many hoops you make someone jump through, people are going to access it who probably shouldn't. So the whole debate is actually pretty pointless, and is serving no real purpose. I was merely stating my opinion, because I think that, even if I strongly disagree with the way Jeremy chose to bring this up on list in the first place, you both are entitled to feel the way you do about the game and its content. It's not for everyone, that's for sure. As for the justification, it makes sense that a storyline should have been included in the game, but before you start, it says, for reasons only known to you or something to that effect. Which I took to mean, fill in the blank with your own scenario. Which is exactly what I did. I'm not saying that should make others feel better if they find the content objectionable, but for me at least, I could sit here and come up with 20 different scenarios about why this character did what he or she did, each one crazier than the last. It's part of what I enjoy about the game, to be honest. As I said to Dark in a previous message, I realized my error about the adult games on Jim Kitchen's website. It had just been a long time since I'd looked at the site, and I didn't know they had been moved. So I apologize. On 5/1/2015 5:23 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Desiree, I think during the debate we had on list a couple of days ago Jeremy's actual point got lost in the discussion. The basic point he was getting at was there was a lot of senseless violence without any kind of justification or reason for it. When you enter the party it gives a simple statement to the effect you don't' know why but you just started killing people at a party. His point was that is no justification, no reason to, go mindlessly kill 10 people. If he plays a game he wants to know why he is doing it, and have some better justification for it. In my personal case I was objecting more to the violence itself. Like Jeremy I'd like to have some better justification or reason to kill people, even virtual people, than just because I decided to go do it for some unknown reason. I also think it is a poor game design, and should be corrected. Moreover while I was playing I just felt uncomfortable playing the game because in my mind it was wrong, I felt dirty, and uneasy about mindlessly going around killing people. I don't feel that way when fighting my way through hoards of zombies, robots, or some other non-human enemy so my objection is more about the ethical conflict I had with playing the game. As for Jim Kitchen's games they aren't mixed in with his other games. He has appropriately moved them onto a page of their own and there is no way for someone to download one of his games without knowing they are adult content. So you seem to be slightly misinformed about where they are located on his site. In any case I am unsure why they haven't generated more debate. The only thing is I figure the adult members of this list and the Audio Games Forum don't find them that objectionable. I certainly don't have any objections over them and wouldn't have any reason to complain myself. Cheers! On 5/1/15, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: I'm trying to remember which game it is that I've played that makes you agree that you're over 18 each time you play it. That's going to bother me now. It's an audio game, I believe, and while I think that's overkill, maybe a similar thing could be put in place in this game as well. I also have to ask this, why didn't anyone ever complain about the content in some of Jim Kitchen's sexually explicit games? Those games are free, are very small downloads, and are actually very easy to hide, because they're buried in a mess of other games inside a rather disorganized directory structure. No offense intended by saying that, I'm just stating a fact. But I apologize for being blunt. Anyway, I would argue that children have probably downloaded these games, too, but I've never heard a peep about it. Same with Slender, the Lost Vision. This game, if memory serves, was released shortly after the incident which Dark referenced in a previous message in which a girl was nearly killed because her friends thought they were going to please Slenderman. Again, this game is free, relatively small, and easy to access. So why is Psycho Strike getting a bad rap when other questionable content has been released in the past? Maybe I just didn't hear about similar objections that were raised? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and
Re: [Audyssey] physical cd's and paypal accounts
In response to the points about physical CD's versus download and/or paypal accounts. I was not necessarily suggesting that a physical CD be involved, merely a code key that would have to be mailed separately. However, as I also said in the original post, I don't expect VGStorm to do either. It is extra cost that would have to be passed on to consumers, and for a small company like VGStorm that's an unacceptable cost. I fully understand both the reality of the new gaming environment, and the position of Aaron's company; there's a fine balance between how you deliver games, how much they cost, and what precautions you have to take to avoid cracking, in this case improper download by minors, etc. I offered two suggestions. Neither is a super practical one. However, that said, I do not think that as game developers we have to say everyone else markets graphically violent games, therefore as long as I have a warning, I've done my bit. With a physical game, such as Grand Theft Auto which several people have brought up, in most places, a kid can't just walk in and buy the game. They're usually behind a counter, in a locked case, etc. That's not to say that kids do not play them without parental supervision, but I, like Thomas, monitor what my kids do, and I like it when companies at least produce an illusion of controlling who their products go to. As to Paypal, honestly, it's been years since I set up a Paypal account, and my memory of it is hazy. However, I know a lot of kids have bank accounts. Just as with anything else, it could be finagled. However, I think you're missing my essential point here. Once someone buys the game, they've gone through some effort either in getting a credit card by hook or by crook, or by accomplishing the goal some other way. My issue, isn't so much with the purchase as with the fact that this game is extremely violent, starts off with a extremely anti-social incident as the motivation for the entire rest of the game, and not only can anyone who downloads it play that sequence, but they are forced to to play the rest of the game. I'm not worried about the 10 year old kid who plays this game after buying it because they dupe their parents. I'm pointing out that any 10 year old can download and play the game. I feel that any developer, myself included, needs to consider these sorts of things when developing a game. If the game is free to download in either a demo mode or a full version, and it contains graphic content, no matter yur definition of minor or adult, you have to realize that people are downloading it. A warning message probably exacerbates this more than it stops people. It would have for me when I was younger. A friend of mine and I cracked Leisure Suit Larry back in the eighties precisely because we weren't supposed to. If the first sequence were modified or removed, this game would still bother me for the violence, but it would have set off my warning sensors a lot less. Thanks for listening yet again:) Take care, Jeremy On 4/29/15, gamers-requ...@audyssey.org gamers-requ...@audyssey.org wrote: Send Gamers mailing list submissions to gamers@audyssey.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gamers-requ...@audyssey.org You can reach the person managing the list at gamers-ow...@audyssey.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Gamers digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: psycho strike help (Aaron Baker) 2. Re: psycho strike some observations (Thomas Ward) 3. Re: psycho strike some observations (Thomas Ward) 4. Psycho strike help part 2 (michael maslo) 5. Re: psycho strike some observations and other related topics bundled together (Desiree Oudinot) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:44:58 -0400 From: Aaron Baker theultimatemasterofarc...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] psycho strike help Message-ID: cag+yvalglqg9vqt_ixy-c5c66wq9hfpimvjyc6s6wrt_nyz...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello, Under manage characters, select your character and hit give person's name food. You have to kill the weapon shop owner. You won't be able to shoot him unless you have a gun, so you will have to hit them with the knife. On 4/29/15, michael maslo michaelmasl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi list: I bought the game and I have to admit I love the game! I have a few questions please. 1. It says I have 117 food in my place. I hit f at the main menu once I have loaded my character. My question is though it says I have 117 food when I hit N while on a mission it says I have 0 rations. How do i get the food as a ration before I starve to
