Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2.
You have a well made point there yohandi. I've been playing games for years but actually slightly agree to disagree with you. We need to have difficult games but not too difficult that no one can beat it except for those with tones of time on their hands... but I get what you're saying. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2.
The problem I find with audio games that doesn't exist in mainstream games is the fact there's no velocity sensitivity when pressing buttons. Meaning you can press the keys as hard or softly as you want and it won't make the slightest difference for jump distances etc. in mainstream platforming games sometimes you need to press and hold down the button if you're doing a really high jump. we don't have such control for audio games. is this because this wouldn't be possible to do on a keyboard? Also you guys mention ledges hanging out above the lava. I'd so love to see something like this in an audio game. this is definitely something sighted folks had to worry about when playing. in games like supermario there were also levels where you had various platforms that appeared above lava or pits or such similar hazards that would disappear if you didn't get across them fast enough. some levels even had a whole bunch of them that you had to make it through in succession without falling to your doom. These types of things is what I'd love to experience in an audio game. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2. Hi Clement, In Monte there were ledges hanging out above the middle of the lava pits you could jump onto and then use them to jump safely to the next ledge etc. They weren't exactly in the lava, but hanging out above the lava. Make sense? Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2.
Not intending this comment to sound rude, but could we please eliminate the compromises? why is it every time something is suggested, there has to be some sort of compromise. I really don't get you guys at all. you want a difficult game, and Thomas is willing to do just that for us. so why are you guys trying to limit his creativity? If I was Thomas and I was working on this game, I'd be afraid to add features due to possible backlash from the community. Let the man create the game he envisioned for us. if you hate difficult games, don't buy it. problem solved. See this is exactly why companies like Draconis don't update us on their progress. nothing fully satisfies people in the community so devs just go underground and do their thing. Let's use 3dv as an example. that game, from what I heard from previews, contains a good amount of cursing. You don't see munewar saying oh man, this game has too much language and isn't suited for 12 year olds, so I'm gonna remove this feature. no, he went along with it. and I'm glad he's doing this. We need to evolve as gamers. we need mature games, as well as difficult games. this is why I believe that audio games will never evolve. We're a minority, and that minority wants compromises and specific features tailored to each individual. The only way for us to evolve as audio gamers would be for a really rich developer to get out there and say hey look, I'm gonna make this game, and you guys could either take it or leave it. unfortunately audio game developers need the extra cash that game development generates. I don't blame them of course, but this really sucks for us as a whole. it isn't like the video game market where if a game is too difficult you simply buy another easier one. We have limitations with audio games. I'm not even sure what the point I'm trying to make here is lol. I guess I'm just a bit disappointed at the fact we seem to take one step forward and 3 back when it comes to audio games and where we all stand as a community. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2. I wonder if a good compromise would be to eliminate the warnings on the highest difficulty and leave them in the lower ones? Thoughts, Thomas? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2.
Hmm. I was thinking it would something as simple as only one variable. The warnings would either be on or off, just like I picture the torches to work. You can still find weapons and treasures whether the torch is lit or not, but just have to do it differently. With the torch lit, you hear that something is there, with it not utilized, you hear nothing. Wouldn't the same apply with trap warnings? Or, I just thought of this, could trap warnings be included in what you hear or do not hear, based on whether a torch is being used or not? This would greatly emphasize the torch's value. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 12:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2. Hi charles, Unfortunately, to do that I'd have to redraw multiple versions of the same level. Not hard to do, but requires extra work of course. On 11/4/10, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I wonder if a good compromise would be to eliminate the warnings on the highest difficulty and leave them in the lower ones? Thoughts, Thomas? --- Shepherds are the best beasts! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2.
Hi Yohandy, Regarding sensativity that's pretty hard to do in an audio game. Especially, one using a keyboard because something like DirectX only cares if the key is pressed or released. How hard you hold it down is irrelavant. So that is certainly a drawback to creating a game for the PC. As for moving/vanishing platforms, hanging ledges, etc I had all that in Montezuma's Revenge. if I hadn't gottn my butt chewed on for copyrights we would have a game like that right now. So when I wrote MOTA I wanted to step away from the Monte desaster and do something different. Although, I could probably include some of Monte's features. On 11/4/10, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: The problem I find with audio games that doesn't exist in mainstream games is the fact there's no velocity sensitivity when pressing buttons. Meaning you can press the keys as hard or softly as you want and it won't make the slightest difference for jump distances etc. in mainstream platforming games sometimes you need to press and hold down the button if you're doing a really high jump. we don't have such control for audio games. is this because this wouldn't be possible to do on a keyboard? Also you guys mention ledges hanging out above the lava. I'd so love to see something like this in an audio game. this is definitely something sighted folks had to worry about when playing. in games like supermario there were also levels where you had various platforms that appeared above lava or pits or such similar hazards that would disappear if you didn't get across them fast enough. some levels even had a whole bunch of them that you had to make it through in succession without falling to your doom. These types of things is what I'd love to experience in an audio game. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2.
I could agree to that. THat would give the more hardcore gamers something somewhat more challenging to work with. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2. I wonder if a good compromise would be to eliminate the warnings on the highest difficulty and leave them in the lower ones? Thoughts, Thomas? --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was best sidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2. Funny you sould mention that Charles, since i actually worked with a Mobility instructor who did believe that the cane was almost totally unnecessary. His view was that the cane only counts for about 10 percent of the feedback you get while travelling and so it really wasn't necessary. I need hardly point out that the one time he had me try to cross a street without the cane in my hand (he's just lucky it wasn't a busy one), I nearly had a heart attack. So I can definitely see your point and feel that at least on the easier difficulty levels the warnings should still be there. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was best side scroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2. This may be true, but I think the key here is that sighted people can see a trap, shouldn't a blind person be able to hear it? Thinking of it another way, it would be like a blind person walking down the street without a cane or a dog guide to let them know that there is an open manhole in front of them. Even if they know that it is at a specific intersection that they must cross, they should still be able to feel it with their feet before falling into it so that they can go around it safely. This is my take on whether or not there should be an indication of a trap. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was best side scroller? -Re:Q9version 1.2. Hi, Right, but at the same stroke you take all the challenge out of jumping that trap. If you walk up to a fire pit, hear a ledge, jump, safely cross the trap, and do it again what's the point of the trap at all? Why not just take all the traps out of the game since they present no difficulty for the player at all? Keep in mind I'm use to mainstream games where traps are extremely difficult. being able to see them means nothing. Take the trap door in Tomb Raider Underworld for a moment. There is a room in Tomb Raider Underworld where you have to turn this large wheel that opens a trap door in the ceiling. After the trap door is open you have to run over to the wall and climb up it to escape through the trap door. Problem is that the trap door is on a timer and if you aren't fast enoughk very fast, the door will come down and lock you in the room or if you are unlucky enough to be in the doorway when it closes Lora Croft ends up getting smashed like a bug. Either way the trap is pretty difficult to get passsed and to date I haven't seen any accessible game, including my own, offer this level of difficulty. Cheers! On 11/4/10, Matheus an...@bol.com.br wrote: hi phil. i agree, there's no point in having a fire or other trap without warnings, since it's not even fun to jump it, i mean, if you're going to need to take a step, press v.. fire pit: 2 meters away. two more steps: fire pit: 1 meters away. one more step! oh yeaaah, 0 meters! then you go a bit to the right and see that there's a new one, and the same process happens again. having the sound to indicate when you must jump is the best solution, at least that's what i think. or designing a different method to indicate it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2.
I agree with this. I think that was a good concept in Monty, and should be kept at least to an extent. That to me would add that extra bit of challenge... and that chasm, for example. If one couldn't find the switch, you could have an alternative method... but a much harder one. So you have two options. Explore and try and find the hidden switch to lower a drawbridge, or jump from ledge to ledge keeping in mind different widths and distances. At 07:52 AM 04/11/2010, you wrote: The problem I find with audio games that doesn't exist in mainstream games is the fact there's no velocity sensitivity when pressing buttons. Meaning you can press the keys as hard or softly as you want and it won't make the slightest difference for jump distances etc. in mainstream platforming games sometimes you need to press and hold down the button if you're doing a really high jump. we don't have such control for audio games. is this because this wouldn't be possible to do on a keyboard? Also you guys mention ledges hanging out above the lava. I'd so love to see something like this in an audio game. this is definitely something sighted folks had to worry about when playing. in games like supermario there were also levels where you had various platforms that appeared above lava or pits or such similar hazards that would disappear if you didn't get across them fast enough. some levels even had a whole bunch of them that you had to make it through in succession without falling to your doom. These types of things is what I'd love to experience in an audio game. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2.
Hi Charles, Personally I think that's a little unrealistic. Granted, we only hear a weapon or whatever when the torch is on, but that's just a substitute for angela seeing it. But if we had a ledge by a chasm, you would still stepon it, would you not? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 12:10 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2. Hmm. I was thinking it would something as simple as only one variable. The warnings would either be on or off, just like I picture the torches to work. You can still find weapons and treasures whether the torch is lit or not, but just have to do it differently. With the torch lit, you hear that something is there, with it not utilized, you hear nothing. Wouldn't the same apply with trap warnings? Or, I just thought of this, could trap warnings be included in what you hear or do not hear, based on whether a torch is being used or not? This would greatly emphasize the torch's value. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 12:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2. Hi charles, Unfortunately, to do that I'd have to redraw multiple versions of the same level. Not hard to do, but requires extra work of course. On 11/4/10, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I wonder if a good compromise would be to eliminate the warnings on the highest difficulty and leave them in the lower ones? Thoughts, Thomas? --- Shepherds are the best beasts! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2.
Hi Yohandy, That's a bit harsh. Plus one reason Munawar did not remove the cursing, besides what you have already mentioned, which does make sense, is that there was no demand for it. I do see what you mean, but Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:12 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2. Not intending this comment to sound rude, but could we please eliminate the compromises? why is it every time something is suggested, there has to be some sort of compromise. I really don't get you guys at all. you want a difficult game, and Thomas is willing to do just that for us. so why are you guys trying to limit his creativity? If I was Thomas and I was working on this game, I'd be afraid to add features due to possible backlash from the community. Let the man create the game he envisioned for us. if you hate difficult games, don't buy it. problem solved. See this is exactly why companies like Draconis don't update us on their progress. nothing fully satisfies people in the community so devs just go underground and do their thing. Let's use 3dv as an example. that game, from what I heard from previews, contains a good amount of cursing. You don't see munewar saying oh man, this game has too much language and isn't suited for 12 year olds, so I'm gonna remove this feature. no, he went along with it. and I'm glad he's doing this. We need to evolve as gamers. we need mature games, as well as difficult games. this is why I believe that audio games will never evolve. We're a minority, and that minority wants compromises and specific features tailored to each individual. The only way for us to evolve as audio gamers would be for a really rich developer to get out there and say hey look, I'm gonna make this game, and you guys could either take it or leave it. unfortunately audio game developers need the extra cash that game development generates. I don't blame them of course, but this really sucks for us as a whole. it isn't like the video game market where if a game is too difficult you simply buy another easier one. We have limitations with audio games. I'm not even sure what the point I'm trying to make here is lol. I guess I'm just a bit disappointed at the fact we seem to take one step forward and 3 back when it comes to audio games and where we all stand as a community. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was bestsidescroller?-Re:Q9version 1.2. I wonder if a good compromise would be to eliminate the warnings on the highest difficulty and leave them in the lower ones? Thoughts, Thomas? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
