Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Hi yohandi. I've actually heard a lot about him before, however my point is that his ability doesn't have anything to do with being blind. there have always been savants, people who are usually considdered autistic but have a certain ability with music or mathematics, indeed I once read a paper that suggested it's due to a specific neurological occurrance which results in both the lack of usual brain function and enhancement of specific areas, however this has bugger all to do with blindness. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Origi --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Microsoft released Microsoft Flight then cancelled it
Earlier this year, Microsoft released Microsoft Flight, a reinvention of its Flight Simulator games of the past. Now the company has reportedly cancelled further development of the game and laid off around 35 staff members involved in the production. Microsoft says that the game will still be available for download for free via its website and on Steam, but that any future content for the game has been scrapped. https://microsoftflight.com/en-US/getStarted/ In addition, Microsoft has also cancelled development of Project Columbia, an unannounced game that would have made use of the Kinect sensor for the Xbox 360. In a statement regarding the cancellations, Microsoft says, Many factors were considered in the difficult decision to stop development on Microsoft Flight and Project Columbia, but we feel it will help us better align with our long-term goals and development plans. For Microsoft Flight,we will continue to support the community that has embraced the title and the game will still be available to download for free. http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-cancels-flight-and-project-columbia-development-26240324/ --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
This stuff's all theoretical. no one knows exactly how savantism occurs, but I certainly think autism has something to do with it, since most savants show autism tendencies, or are severely autistic. no it doesn't have to do with blindness, but there's clearly something there that enhances savant's ability to do these things. whatever it is, it is something the rest of us can't tap into. My point is that not every talented person is so due to just pure practice. sometimes there are certain circumstances involved. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:21 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game Hi yohandi. I've actually heard a lot about him before, however my point is that his ability doesn't have anything to do with being blind. there have always been savants, people who are usually considdered autistic but have a certain ability with music or mathematics, indeed I once read a paper that suggested it's due to a specific neurological occurrance which results in both the lack of usual brain function and enhancement of specific areas, however this has bugger all to do with blindness. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Origi --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Actually this isn't at all theoretical. People have had a significant understanding of how to cause this phenomenon in non-savants for many years now, with transcranial magnetic stimulation. Not only that, but this technique is being explored for use in the military to drastically abbreviate the training necessary for people to become experts at identifying enemy targets from footage of areal drones. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/22/magazine/22SAVANT.html?pagewanted=all Now, to keep this relevant to this list, I hadn't thought about this before this topic came up, but I wonder if this technique could also have applications in virtual reality / gaming? Can you imagine how amazing it would be to be fully imersed in a virtual environment since it would be coming directly from your own brain? this would truly be even better than a holodeck experience as it would be absolutely real to you. Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jul 26, 2012, at 4:43 AM, Yohandy wrote: This stuff's all theoretical. no one knows exactly how savantism occurs, but I certainly think autism has something to do with it, since most savants show autism tendencies, or are severely autistic. no it doesn't have to do with blindness, but there's clearly something there that enhances savant's ability to do these things. whatever it is, it is something the rest of us can't tap into. My point is that not every talented person is so due to just pure practice. sometimes there are certain circumstances involved. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:21 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game Hi yohandi. I've actually heard a lot about him before, however my point is that his ability doesn't have anything to do with being blind. there have always been savants, people who are usually considdered autistic but have a certain ability with music or mathematics, indeed I once read a paper that suggested it's due to a specific neurological occurrance which results in both the lack of usual brain function and enhancement of specific areas, however this has bugger all to do with blindness. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Origi --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] bgt super mario brothers
Hi all I read on audiogames.net about the audio super Mario brothers done in bgt. Have you guys played it? And how do you find it? Is it possible to play the game without a braille display? And is it possible to play the game without a screen reader? I read on audiogames.net that n v d a can be used to read certain info but I'm not quite sure if I need n v d A to play the game. Does this game have all the levels the classic nes game had? I know how to go about downloading the game, but I'd like to hear how others have experienced the game. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Responding directly to the trans-cranial attachments, it would be tremendously addictive. There's been more than a little speculative fiction about virtual reality and its effect on human psychology. I personally hope it doesn't come about for a long time, if ever, that virtual gaming is that compelling. I've already heard of some cases where people have been catheterized so that they can continue gaming uninterrupted. Imagine, then, the disorders and disfunctions caused by a perfect virtual simulation constructed and played out in your own mind. Returning slightly to a topic I touched on, I do think that there are levels and levels of perspective, as I spoke about in my previous post. It would be foolish to assume everyone's perspective is the same. There is an argument that those who have been blind for the duration of their lives have a different perspective on blindness than do those who have gotten used to being blind. This is not to say that either perspective is superior, just that they both exist, and it is not an exclusively singular perspective we're dealing with. A person who was taught to hate blindness and being blind will respond poorly to it as compared with a person who was taught that blindness is like godhood. I give ludicrous examples to make a point. The plain facts are that our perspectives determine our reality. If that perspective was molded through adolescence to be that of a sighted individual, and if most sighted people feel that losing their sight would be worse than losing any other sense, which tends to be the case, then a sighted person going blind in later adolescence or beyond would feel differently about the loss of their sight than a person would if they lost it earlier in life. There are many activities, whether they be games, fencing, building a house, or cooking a meal, which consistently require the same effort and the same modifications dependent on skill, ability, and perception, and there are activities which require more effort for those who lose their sight later on and activities which require more effort when sight is lost early. This suggests differences in the psychological makeup of the person, let alone possible physical brain differences. There are also activities which the sighted person will find easier to do or conceptualize than will blind individuals. In some cases, this is because sighted persons make the majority of the products and services in the world. In some other cases it is because sight allows for obtainment of visual data and that the brain is more properly equipped to make decisions based on visual data. I'm not spouting nonsense. I'm putting forth fact. But my basic point remains the same throughout. SOme people can do some things better. Others do other things better. Hence diversity, hence an interesting world. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 7/26/12, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: Actually this isn't at all theoretical. People have had a significant understanding of how to cause this phenomenon in non-savants for many years now, with transcranial magnetic stimulation. Not only that, but this technique is being explored for use in the military to drastically abbreviate the training necessary for people to become experts at identifying enemy targets from footage of areal drones. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/22/magazine/22SAVANT.html?pagewanted=all Now, to keep this relevant to this list, I hadn't thought about this before this topic came up, but I wonder if this technique could also have applications in virtual reality / gaming? Can you imagine how amazing it would be to be fully imersed in a virtual environment since it would be coming directly from your own brain? this would truly be even better than a holodeck experience as it would be absolutely real to you. Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jul 26, 2012, at 4:43 AM, Yohandy wrote: This stuff's all theoretical. no one knows exactly how savantism occurs, but I certainly think autism has something to do with it, since most savants show autism tendencies, or are severely autistic. no it doesn't have to do with blindness, but there's clearly something there that enhances savant's ability to do these things. whatever it is, it is something the rest of us can't tap into. My point is that not every talented person is so due to just pure practice. sometimes there are certain circumstances involved. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:21 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game Hi yohandi. I've actually heard a lot about him before, however my point is that his ability doesn't have anything to do with being blind. there have always been savants, people who are usually considdered autistic but have a certain ability
[Audyssey] Alter Eon Newbie frustration
Hi, any advice on how I can get out of the same situation? I play a level 6 cleric who is stuck in a field with two waypoints and would like to go somewhere else and do something other than killing things. I'm getting bored. Regards, Kim Friedman. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Hi Dakotah, I couldn't agree with you more. Very well said indeed. My only comment when it comes to Matrix style brain gaming is that I think safety measures would be put in that would prevent most of the problems that might arise with normal person usage. For the disabled however, I can see it becoming very addictive and popular, if ever it happened. I mean, a paralyzed person would feel whole again, a blind person could see, deaf could hear, etc and so forth. Why would anyone disabled leave such an environment for reality? I guess I am talking beyond games to interconnectivity of brain with a computer simulation or even with others linked in. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - From: Dakotah Rickard To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game Responding directly to the trans-cranial attachments, it would be tremendously addictive. There's been more than a little speculative fiction about virtual reality and its effect on human psychology. I personally hope it doesn't come about for a long time, if ever, that virtual gaming is that compelling. I've already heard of some cases where people have been catheterized so that they can continue gaming uninterrupted. Imagine, then, the disorders and disfunctions caused by a perfect virtual simulation constructed and played out in your own mind. Returning slightly to a topic I touched on, I do think that there are levels and levels of perspective, as I spoke about in my previous post. It would be foolish to assume everyone's perspective is the same. There is an argument that those who have been blind for the duration of their lives have a different perspective on blindness than do those who have gotten used to being blind. This is not to say that either perspective is superior, just that they both exist, and it is not an exclusively singular perspective we're dealing with. A person who was taught to hate blindness and being blind will respond poorly to it as compared with a person who was taught that blindness is like godhood. I give ludicrous examples to make a point. The plain facts are that our perspectives determine our reality. If that perspective was molded through adolescence to be that of a sighted individual, and if most sighted people feel that losing their sight would be worse than losing any other sense, which tends to be the case, then a sighted person going blind in later adolescence or beyond would feel differently about the loss of their sight than a person would if they lost it earlier in life. There are many activities, whether they be games, fencing, building a house, or cooking a meal, which consistently require the same effort and the same modifications dependent on skill, ability, and perception, and there are activities which require more effort for those who lose their sight later on and activities which require more effort when sight is lost early. This suggests differences in the psychological makeup of the person, let alone possible physical brain differences. There are also activities which the sighted person will find easier to do or conceptualize than will blind individuals. In some cases, this is because sighted persons make the majority of the products and services in the world. In some other cases it is because sight allows for obtainment of visual data and that the brain is more properly equipped to make decisions based on visual data. I'm not spouting nonsense. I'm putting forth fact. But my basic point remains the same throughout. SOme people can do some things better. Others do other things better. Hence diversity, hence an interesting world. Signed: Dakotah Rickard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Hi Yohandy, Yeah, this is really drifting off topic, but since you brought the subject up I'd like to make a quick point as I think it is important. Not just for music but any other kind of talent weather it is computer programming, playing games, or anything else you wish to mention. It is simply that the human mind is still a great mystery, and we still don't know much about how it works. What we do know is that different parts of the brain seem to be responsible for different things. That would explain how someone like Derek Paravicini might not be able to count to 10 but is a master pianist. Psychologists, neurologists, etc have known for quite some time that people who may be severely autistic in some areas are extremely talented or gifted in other areas. Sometimes above and beyond the norm. Its as though god, nature, fate, whatever you want to call it, takes away with one hand and gives back something else in return. The point being is that it isn't really a blind vs sighted issue you are discussing here. It is more an issue of how unique and unusual the human mind can be, and some times people are more unique than usual. Its one of those great mysteries science still has left to explain. Cheers! On 7/25/12, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: There are some true inexplicable mysteries out there though. This is a bit off topic, but since music came up I'd like to mention Derek Paravicini, the blind and severely autistic pianist. It would take a while to explain why this guy is so amazing, so I'll link you guys to a few videos. it'll give you an idea of what this guy's all about and his incredible improv skill and technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpIigV7-kJk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XztWqdEeyZQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BINSQNo8-18 and last one is a documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fibZudrZUto Now how could anything like this be explained logically? For all we know, this guy is the most talented pianist on earth, and that's no exageration. He can play any song, in any key, in any style he chooses. in fact he can play them chromatically. check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnqvmPCDli0 he can compose songs on the spot, however he cannot count to 10. explain this. It's sorta hard not to compare pianists to this guy now. lol --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Hi Dakotah, YOu said snip There is an argument that those who have been blind for the duration of their lives have a different perspective on blindness than do those who have gotten used to being blind. I agree, and this is also being proven of late in the sense of how much neuro-plasticity plays a part in restructuring the visual cortex to process audio and other sensory input. Supposedly people who lose their sight before the age of 15 (approximately) tend to show signal rerouting so that their visual cortex takes on the role of processing their other senses whereas those who lose their sight after show a more common picture of processing in their visual cortex. I.E. it still tends to process visual data even though their is none. So this seems likely to me that the person's psyche could be effected as well. To bring this back to the topic of autism, there have also been studies on similarities between blind people and autistics not in the sense of brain similarities but in the sense of manifestations of social skills. This obviously opens up a whole can of worms which I won't go into here, :) but suffice it to say that I personally agree that there seem to be differences in the demeanors of late vs early blinded peeps. (at least in my limited non-expert experience) :) I personally feel there are actually more categories than just these two supposed personality types but again, that's for another discussion list. Does this get back to the age-old question of whether some blind people are just better at hearing than their sighted counterparts? Personally, I saw no difference in my hearing from before I lost my sight as compared to after. So I think this is kind of a myth, however, as I mention above, there is research being done here now that may prove this to be true in some people's cases. Could some of us just be wired better for audio games? lol! On the subject of virtual reality via transcranial magnetic stimulation, as you allude to, I think great care needs to be taken in how this kind of technology is implemented and how this research is undertaken. Given that the article I posted is almost a decade old I think this actually bodes well on our restraint. To go further on this, I actually think we almost have innate safe-guards in place. People as a whole may not be willing to support this kind of research as it involves something very invasive. We don't want our brains being messed with! lol! :) So I think people for the most part will be the filter for this kind of technology so that it will come about in the time table that it should. I.E. When it finally happens, ideally we'd be a bit further along in our abilities to live in harmony with it. Perhaps we may not even want it when it is perfected. I wasn't aware of the cases you mention about people being catheterized but it doesn't surprise me. ;) It takes all types to make a world! lol! It feels even now, in this community that many people are severely addicted to games. So I agree with you that making this even more compelling could be very destructive for humanity. However, this also brings up a philosophical question of what we're living for and what we want our lives to be. How do we want this life to manifest? I.E. If a game or simulation can effectively become our life and seem as real as our physical life, and even be generated for us in the exact same way we experience our physical lives, (via our perceptions at the brain level) then what is our life? Is this not just a simulation of sorts already? Huge philosophical and religious questions could come up because of this sort of technology. I for one find it absolutely fascinating but as you say, it could basically destroy the fabric of our existence if we're not careful. It seems like the most amazing discoveries always can. :) Anyway, thanks for the very interesting and thought-provoking note. It will be interesting to see what the first gaming applications will be for transcranial magnetic stim technologies… Have an awesome day! Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Derek's level of ability becomes a lot more explicable though if you consider that the chap has spent more time each day of his life since a very young age at a piano than anywhere else, discounting sleep. It hasn't been just mindless plonking either, there have always been people around him who understand enough music theory to coach and encourage, those being there in addition to some of the finest tuition available. I guess it's fascinating to some how the raw talent was there in the first place, but talent plus insane amounts of practice usually equals virtuoso, Derek isn't an exception. He's an amazing musician for sure, but it's worth remembering how his days have been spent. All too often I see people asuming he just woke up one day as the player he is now. If only it were that easy! On 7/26/12, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: There are some true inexplicable mysteries out there though. This is a bit off topic, but since music came up I'd like to mention Derek Paravicini, the blind and severely autistic pianist. It would take a while to explain why this guy is so amazing, so I'll link you guys to a few videos. it'll give you an idea of what this guy's all about and his incredible improv skill and technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpIigV7-kJk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XztWqdEeyZQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BINSQNo8-18 and last one is a documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fibZudrZUto Now how could anything like this be explained logically? For all we know, this guy is the most talented pianist on earth, and that's no exageration. He can play any song, in any key, in any style he chooses. in fact he can play them chromatically. check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnqvmPCDli0 he can compose songs on the spot, however he cannot count to 10. explain this. It's sorta hard not to compare pianists to this guy now. lol - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game Hi Dark, Oh, don't get me started. I hate the so called blind privileged experience argument. That's a load of crap circulated by people who have never been sighted, who think their experience is superior to everyone else, and argue essentially from ignorance. Especially, when the subject at hand such as music has nothing to do with being blind or sighted in the first place. For example, a few years ago there was a blind Canadian jazz and blues-rock musician named Jeff Healey. He was an exceptionally good guitar player, and loved to show off his talent by playing the guitar flat on his lap. I can't argue with his skill as a guitarist, since I do admire his skills myself, but many people jumped to that stereotypical conclusion that because he was blind that made him somehow superior to sighted musicians. Of course, the fact he was blind had absolutely nothing to do with it. It all came down to a lot of time and practice to pull off feats like that. There have been a number of extremely talented sighted guitar players that are as good as if not better than Jeff Healey. People like Eddy Van Halen, Jimmi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Richard Van Zant from Linard Skinard, to name just a few have made a name for themselves as world renown guitarists. The point here is that being a very exceptional guitar player doesn't have anything to do with being blind. It all comes down to skill and talent. Anyway, getting back on topic here you are right. There are a number of experiences where blindness doesn't effect it one way or another. Sometimes a blind person has to do things differently, but can essentially have the same experience as his/her sighted friends and family. Cheers! On 7/25/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. both true, however one thing I want to avoid n any discussion with disability and effort is the idea of privelidged experience, that there is a blind experience of the world whicch nobody else can understand or participate in, even when that experience has nothing to do with blindness. i have for instance read papers by peoplke who claime that blind people, (and by their implication All! blind people), have an understanding and experience of music beyond everyone else. To me, this is exclusivist rubbish, sinse I've met some pretty tone deaf blind people and some amazing sighted musicians,, and just as we must acknolidge that sighted people can! play audio games, it is equally true that there are experiences which blindness doesn't affect. perhaps the example of text games was a bad one because of cost, but music, playing audio games, communicating in an auditory way, learning massage, would probably be different. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Hi Dakotah and all, Yes, virtual reality gaming would be extremely addictive. There have been a number of science fiction books, movies, and television shows that speculate how addictive it could be. One of the more interesting examples is the Sliders episode where they end up on an alternative planet earth where everyone is cyborg implanted into a world wide virtual reality game. While the show was a bit extreme I do think if the technology is ever invented it could have mass addiction from people who simply don't know how to do things in moderation. As you pointed out there have been some extreme cases where people have been catheterized whatever just so they could continue gaming. There is a well known story where a guy died of a heart attack after playing a popular roll playing game for fifty-some hours straight. Such is insanity from my point of view, but there are obsessive-compulsives out there who just can't quit for some reason. They go on and on until it kills them. True VR gaming would only be that much more compelling. That said, that sort of thing tends to be the exception and not the rule. A person who is well balanced, mentally stable, with a decent life won't indulge in extreme VR gaming. They have no need to. The people who make headline news for dying after playing games for several hours straight generally have absolutely screwed up lives to begin with. They often play games to escape reality, close themselves off from the real world, and use it as a substitute for real life. Those people are a danger to themselves and need mental help. Cheers! On 7/26/12, Dakotah Rickard dakotah.rick...@gmail.com wrote: Responding directly to the trans-cranial attachments, it would be tremendously addictive. There's been more than a little speculative fiction about virtual reality and its effect on human psychology. I personally hope it doesn't come about for a long time, if ever, that virtual gaming is that compelling. I've already heard of some cases where people have been catheterized so that they can continue gaming uninterrupted. Imagine, then, the disorders and disfunctions caused by a perfect virtual simulation constructed and played out in your own mind. Returning slightly to a topic I touched on, I do think that there are levels and levels of perspective, as I spoke about in my previous post. It would be foolish to assume everyone's perspective is the same. There is an argument that those who have been blind for the duration of their lives have a different perspective on blindness than do those who have gotten used to being blind. This is not to say that either perspective is superior, just that they both exist, and it is not an exclusively singular perspective we're dealing with. A person who was taught to hate blindness and being blind will respond poorly to it as compared with a person who was taught that blindness is like godhood. I give ludicrous examples to make a point. The plain facts are that our perspectives determine our reality. If that perspective was molded through adolescence to be that of a sighted individual, and if most sighted people feel that losing their sight would be worse than losing any other sense, which tends to be the case, then a sighted person going blind in later adolescence or beyond would feel differently about the loss of their sight than a person would if they lost it earlier in life. There are many activities, whether they be games, fencing, building a house, or cooking a meal, which consistently require the same effort and the same modifications dependent on skill, ability, and perception, and there are activities which require more effort for those who lose their sight later on and activities which require more effort when sight is lost early. This suggests differences in the psychological makeup of the person, let alone possible physical brain differences. There are also activities which the sighted person will find easier to do or conceptualize than will blind individuals. In some cases, this is because sighted persons make the majority of the products and services in the world. In some other cases it is because sight allows for obtainment of visual data and that the brain is more properly equipped to make decisions based on visual data. I'm not spouting nonsense. I'm putting forth fact. But my basic point remains the same throughout. SOme people can do some things better. Others do other things better. Hence diversity, hence an interesting world. Signed: Dakotah Rickard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Well-said Thomas! I heard a funny quote once which said basically, 'Go outside, the graphics are amazing!' lol! So I personally think we need to enjoy life. Enjoy the one we have before we try to make another one. :) This one is a huge gift so get up, get outside get with each other and have some big fun! :) Moving through this life can be as much fun, and much much cooler than any game. -Know what I mean? It's all in how you make it. :) Anyway, blah blah blah -just my two cents. Have an awesome day and hope I didn't take this one too far OT. Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:02 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Dakotah and all, Yes, virtual reality gaming would be extremely addictive. There have been a number of science fiction books, movies, and television shows that speculate how addictive it could be. One of the more interesting examples is the Sliders episode where they end up on an alternative planet earth where everyone is cyborg implanted into a world wide virtual reality game. While the show was a bit extreme I do think if the technology is ever invented it could have mass addiction from people who simply don't know how to do things in moderation. As you pointed out there have been some extreme cases where people have been catheterized whatever just so they could continue gaming. There is a well known story where a guy died of a heart attack after playing a popular roll playing game for fifty-some hours straight. Such is insanity from my point of view, but there are obsessive-compulsives out there who just can't quit for some reason. They go on and on until it kills them. True VR gaming would only be that much more compelling. That said, that sort of thing tends to be the exception and not the rule. A person who is well balanced, mentally stable, with a decent life won't indulge in extreme VR gaming. They have no need to. The people who make headline news for dying after playing games for several hours straight generally have absolutely screwed up lives to begin with. They often play games to escape reality, close themselves off from the real world, and use it as a substitute for real life. Those people are a danger to themselves and need mental help. Cheers! On 7/26/12, Dakotah Rickard dakotah.rick...@gmail.com wrote: Responding directly to the trans-cranial attachments, it would be tremendously addictive. There's been more than a little speculative fiction about virtual reality and its effect on human psychology. I personally hope it doesn't come about for a long time, if ever, that virtual gaming is that compelling. I've already heard of some cases where people have been catheterized so that they can continue gaming uninterrupted. Imagine, then, the disorders and disfunctions caused by a perfect virtual simulation constructed and played out in your own mind. Returning slightly to a topic I touched on, I do think that there are levels and levels of perspective, as I spoke about in my previous post. It would be foolish to assume everyone's perspective is the same. There is an argument that those who have been blind for the duration of their lives have a different perspective on blindness than do those who have gotten used to being blind. This is not to say that either perspective is superior, just that they both exist, and it is not an exclusively singular perspective we're dealing with. A person who was taught to hate blindness and being blind will respond poorly to it as compared with a person who was taught that blindness is like godhood. I give ludicrous examples to make a point. The plain facts are that our perspectives determine our reality. If that perspective was molded through adolescence to be that of a sighted individual, and if most sighted people feel that losing their sight would be worse than losing any other sense, which tends to be the case, then a sighted person going blind in later adolescence or beyond would feel differently about the loss of their sight than a person would if they lost it earlier in life. There are many activities, whether they be games, fencing, building a house, or cooking a meal, which consistently require the same effort and the same modifications dependent on skill, ability, and perception, and there are activities which require more effort for those who lose their sight later on and activities which require more effort when sight is lost early. This suggests differences in the psychological makeup of the person, let alone possible physical brain differences. There are also activities which the sighted person will find easier to do or conceptualize than will blind individuals. In some cases, this is because sighted persons make the majority of the products and services in the world. In some other cases it is because sight allows for obtainment of visual data and that the
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Hi Al, I think the answer lies in the person's mental stability. As I mentioned in my prior post a well balanced, well adjusted, person wouldn't get hooked on virtual reality gaming machines. Some people who were born blind, for example, are probably very comfortable being blind and a game that simulates sight might be interesting to them but might not be a spectacular experience. Part of the reason is that there are a lot of visual concepts like colors, depth perception, etc that might be mental overload for them at first. They'd have to ease into the entire concept of sight. Then again, if there was a way for a virtual reality game to transfer images etc directly into the human brain why couldn't that same technology be used to transfer images from the real world into the human brain. In such a case I for one would say to heck with the game and pick the technology that simulates sight. Anything that would help me walk around, watch TV, read printed materials, etc would be far more addictive and useful to me than a V.R. game. Cheers! On 7/26/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: Hi Dakotah, I couldn't agree with you more. Very well said indeed. My only comment when it comes to Matrix style brain gaming is that I think safety measures would be put in that would prevent most of the problems that might arise with normal person usage. For the disabled however, I can see it becoming very addictive and popular, if ever it happened. I mean, a paralyzed person would feel whole again, a blind person could see, deaf could hear, etc and so forth. Why would anyone disabled leave such an environment for reality? I guess I am talking beyond games to interconnectivity of brain with a computer simulation or even with others linked in. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Hi Cara, Exactly my point. People seriously need to try enjoy the life they have, deal with their problems in a mature and meaningful manner, and not try and use games as a substitute for life. Games, although fun and entertaining, are only a temporary pass time and nothing more. No matter how addictive virtual reality gaming may be it is no more and no less than a temporary pass time and often a poor substitute for reality. For example, in theory someone could fill a giant pool or tub full of water, warm it to 75 degrees, put on a pair of V.R. goggles, and jump in. The V.R. goggles might give him/her the simulation of swimming in the ocean while the tub of water gives him/her the physical sensation of being underwater. However, realistic it might seem it still would be a fake. It would be far more rewarding in the long run to travel to the beach, rent a wetsuit and tanks, and go swimming in the ocean. The experience of seeing it firsthand really and truly blows away any virtual reality experience man could ever create. Like I said earlier the people who spend almost all their time playing games have no lives. They don't know how to enjoy the life they have. There are many things more satisfying such as hiking, swimming, playing a musical instrument, whatever that are more satisfying if you just do them rather than pretending to do them in a game world. I'm sure some virtual reality experiences have their place. A person might get on a treadmill and put on a V.R. helmet to simulate walking through the woods, mountains, etc while they walk the treadmill. Its alright, might help a person pass the time, but I'd prefer going to the location and walking it in reality than via some V.R. helmet. To me V.R. still would only be a cheap substitute for the real thing. Cheers! On 7/26/12, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: Well-said Thomas! I heard a funny quote once which said basically, 'Go outside, the graphics are amazing!' lol! So I personally think we need to enjoy life. Enjoy the one we have before we try to make another one. :) This one is a huge gift so get up, get outside get with each other and have some big fun! :) Moving through this life can be as much fun, and much much cooler than any game. -Know what I mean? It's all in how you make it. :) Anyway, blah blah blah -just my two cents. Have an awesome day and hope I didn't take this one too far OT. Smiles, Cara :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
With inflation, its now 5 cents. At 03:15 PM 7/26/2012, you wrote: Well-said Thomas! I heard a funny quote once which said basically, 'Go outside, the graphics are amazing!' lol! So I personally think we need to enjoy life. Enjoy the one we have before we try to make another one. :) This one is a huge gift so get up, get outside get with each other and have some big fun! :) Moving through this life can be as much fun, and much much cooler than any game. -Know what I mean? It's all in how you make it. :) Anyway, blah blah blah -just my two cents. Have an awesome day and hope I didn't take this one too far OT. Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:02 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Dakotah and all, Yes, virtual reality gaming would be extremely addictive. There have been a number of science fiction books, movies, and television shows that speculate how addictive it could be. One of the more interesting examples is the Sliders episode where they end up on an alternative planet earth where everyone is cyborg implanted into a world wide virtual reality game. While the show was a bit extreme I do think if the technology is ever invented it could have mass addiction from people who simply don't know how to do things in moderation. As you pointed out there have been some extreme cases where people have been catheterized whatever just so they could continue gaming. There is a well known story where a guy died of a heart attack after playing a popular roll playing game for fifty-some hours straight. Such is insanity from my point of view, but there are obsessive-compulsives out there who just can't quit for some reason. They go on and on until it kills them. True VR gaming would only be that much more compelling. That said, that sort of thing tends to be the exception and not the rule. A person who is well balanced, mentally stable, with a decent life won't indulge in extreme VR gaming. They have no need to. The people who make headline news for dying after playing games for several hours straight generally have absolutely screwed up lives to begin with. They often play games to escape reality, close themselves off from the real world, and use it as a substitute for real life. Those people are a danger to themselves and need mental help. Cheers! On 7/26/12, Dakotah Rickard dakotah.rick...@gmail.com wrote: Responding directly to the trans-cranial attachments, it would be tremendously addictive. There's been more than a little speculative fiction about virtual reality and its effect on human psychology. I personally hope it doesn't come about for a long time, if ever, that virtual gaming is that compelling. I've already heard of some cases where people have been catheterized so that they can continue gaming uninterrupted. Imagine, then, the disorders and disfunctions caused by a perfect virtual simulation constructed and played out in your own mind. Returning slightly to a topic I touched on, I do think that there are levels and levels of perspective, as I spoke about in my previous post. It would be foolish to assume everyone's perspective is the same. There is an argument that those who have been blind for the duration of their lives have a different perspective on blindness than do those who have gotten used to being blind. This is not to say that either perspective is superior, just that they both exist, and it is not an exclusively singular perspective we're dealing with. A person who was taught to hate blindness and being blind will respond poorly to it as compared with a person who was taught that blindness is like godhood. I give ludicrous examples to make a point. The plain facts are that our perspectives determine our reality. If that perspective was molded through adolescence to be that of a sighted individual, and if most sighted people feel that losing their sight would be worse than losing any other sense, which tends to be the case, then a sighted person going blind in later adolescence or beyond would feel differently about the loss of their sight than a person would if they lost it earlier in life. There are many activities, whether they be games, fencing, building a house, or cooking a meal, which consistently require the same effort and the same modifications dependent on skill, ability, and perception, and there are activities which require more effort for those who lose their sight later on and activities which require more effort when sight is lost early. This suggests differences in the psychological makeup of the person, let alone possible physical brain differences. There are also activities which the sighted person will find easier to do or conceptualize than will blind individuals. In some cases, this is because sighted persons make the majority of the products and services in the world. In some other cases
Re: [Audyssey] [Odyssey] working Holodeck game
Some people almost can its called talent. At 03:00 PM 7/26/2012, you wrote: Derek's level of ability becomes a lot more explicable though if you consider that the chap has spent more time each day of his life since a very young age at a piano than anywhere else, discounting sleep. It hasn't been just mindless plonking either, there have always been people around him who understand enough music theory to coach and encourage, those being there in addition to some of the finest tuition available. I guess it's fascinating to some how the raw talent was there in the first place, but talent plus insane amounts of practice usually equals virtuoso, Derek isn't an exception. He's an amazing musician for sure, but it's worth remembering how his days have been spent. All too often I see people asuming he just woke up one day as the player he is now. If only it were that easy! On 7/26/12, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: There are some true inexplicable mysteries out there though. This is a bit off topic, but since music came up I'd like to mention Derek Paravicini, the blind and severely autistic pianist. It would take a while to explain why this guy is so amazing, so I'll link you guys to a few videos. it'll give you an idea of what this guy's all about and his incredible improv skill and technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpIigV7-kJk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XztWqdEeyZQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BINSQNo8-18 and last one is a documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fibZudrZUto Now how could anything like this be explained logically? For all we know, this guy is the most talented pianist on earth, and that's no exageration. He can play any song, in any key, in any style he chooses. in fact he can play them chromatically. check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnqvmPCDli0 he can compose songs on the spot, however he cannot count to 10. explain this. It's sorta hard not to compare pianists to this guy now. lol - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game Hi Dark, Oh, don't get me started. I hate the so called blind privileged experience argument. That's a load of crap circulated by people who have never been sighted, who think their experience is superior to everyone else, and argue essentially from ignorance. Especially, when the subject at hand such as music has nothing to do with being blind or sighted in the first place. For example, a few years ago there was a blind Canadian jazz and blues-rock musician named Jeff Healey. He was an exceptionally good guitar player, and loved to show off his talent by playing the guitar flat on his lap. I can't argue with his skill as a guitarist, since I do admire his skills myself, but many people jumped to that stereotypical conclusion that because he was blind that made him somehow superior to sighted musicians. Of course, the fact he was blind had absolutely nothing to do with it. It all came down to a lot of time and practice to pull off feats like that. There have been a number of extremely talented sighted guitar players that are as good as if not better than Jeff Healey. People like Eddy Van Halen, Jimmi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Richard Van Zant from Linard Skinard, to name just a few have made a name for themselves as world renown guitarists. The point here is that being a very exceptional guitar player doesn't have anything to do with being blind. It all comes down to skill and talent. Anyway, getting back on topic here you are right. There are a number of experiences where blindness doesn't effect it one way or another. Sometimes a blind person has to do things differently, but can essentially have the same experience as his/her sighted friends and family. Cheers! On 7/25/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. both true, however one thing I want to avoid n any discussion with disability and effort is the idea of privelidged experience, that there is a blind experience of the world whicch nobody else can understand or participate in, even when that experience has nothing to do with blindness. i have for instance read papers by peoplke who claime that blind people, (and by their implication All! blind people), have an understanding and experience of music beyond everyone else. To me, this is exclusivist rubbish, sinse I've met some pretty tone deaf blind people and some amazing sighted musicians,, and just as we must acknolidge that sighted people can! play audio games, it is equally true that there are experiences which blindness doesn't affect. perhaps the example of text games was a bad one because of cost, but music, playing audio games, communicating in an auditory way, learning massage, would probably be different. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
The trouble, and this is way philosophical, has been touched on more times than a ... well, let's just keep going... the real trouble is when it's not virtual reality but different reality. Virtual reality means a reality that is distinctly different from the, and here I quote, Real world. The thing about a direct neural stimulation is that it's pretty much gonna be impossible to tell it apart from reality, if that's what the person making the thing wants and if tht's whaat the market demands. I ask you, and yes this is related, what's the point of rendering graphically every single blade of gras in a field. What is the point in making blood splatters so realistic that they look identical to real life? I don't know, but that's what the graphics enthusiasts want. Environments that are entirely manipulatable, entirely destructive, and entirely too real. I'm not just talking about the nutballs who are unbalanced. I'm talking about pretty much anyone who calls themself a gamer. There's no going back to the old days of crap graphics. Eventually, our own high performance technology will be old news, and the graphics might just look real enough that they jump out and get you, but it's still just a picture on a screen, but what happens when the graphics are generated by the world's most advanced, most complicated, and most versitile computer, the human brain itself. I'm not talking about something we have now, but isn't it possible that the reality device we eventually construct can find the neurons which contain the smell for, say, apple pie, and they trigger those neurons. You don't think you smell apple pie or want to smell apple pie, you actually smell it. At that point, if the person generates their own reality, then that is their reality. This is hugely philosophical and wildly off topic, especially considering that the device that these university reserchers have made is essentially a glorified body motion tracker, but it is worth considering. We all assume that the person will be able to tell the difference between reality and the game world, but when that difference is more conceptual than psychological, who will want to leave a world in which they and their friends are popular, important, heroic, handsome, wealthy, powerful, and so forth. It's not a question of being balanced or unbalanced. People respond to positive stimuli by doing whatever it is that stimulates them more. Drugs, sex, rock and roll, running, eating chocolate, what ever you want to point to, it's all reinforced by reactions in the mind and in the brain, and the impressive array of awesomeness which is a main character in a game is, beyond question, a strong positive reinforcement. That's why games are addictive. Sure, they're an escape, but they're only an escape because they're so addictive. That's why more people ply games than enter sensory deprivation tanks. I hope you guys enjoyed this rambling wayword post. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 7/26/12, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Cara, Exactly my point. People seriously need to try enjoy the life they have, deal with their problems in a mature and meaningful manner, and not try and use games as a substitute for life. Games, although fun and entertaining, are only a temporary pass time and nothing more. No matter how addictive virtual reality gaming may be it is no more and no less than a temporary pass time and often a poor substitute for reality. For example, in theory someone could fill a giant pool or tub full of water, warm it to 75 degrees, put on a pair of V.R. goggles, and jump in. The V.R. goggles might give him/her the simulation of swimming in the ocean while the tub of water gives him/her the physical sensation of being underwater. However, realistic it might seem it still would be a fake. It would be far more rewarding in the long run to travel to the beach, rent a wetsuit and tanks, and go swimming in the ocean. The experience of seeing it firsthand really and truly blows away any virtual reality experience man could ever create. Like I said earlier the people who spend almost all their time playing games have no lives. They don't know how to enjoy the life they have. There are many things more satisfying such as hiking, swimming, playing a musical instrument, whatever that are more satisfying if you just do them rather than pretending to do them in a game world. I'm sure some virtual reality experiences have their place. A person might get on a treadmill and put on a V.R. helmet to simulate walking through the woods, mountains, etc while they walk the treadmill. Its alright, might help a person pass the time, but I'd prefer going to the location and walking it in reality than via some V.R. helmet. To me V.R. still would only be a cheap substitute for the real thing. Cheers! On 7/26/12, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: Well-said Thomas! I heard a funny quote once which said basically, 'Go outside, the
Re: [Audyssey] Alter Eon Newbie frustration
Kim, If you head eastward across the field, you'll eventually run into some beasts and the boss beast, Woodfist. Woodfist guards the entrance to the graveyard, which is the next place you'll want to go. There is a waypoint just inside the graveyard entrance to the north. To move between waypoints, use the 'waypoint' command while you're at a waypoint. For example, 'way 1' should take you to your first waypoint, the encampment. Remember that you can always recall to your last waypoint if you get lost. To check which quests you're on, use the 'quests' command. If you haven't talked to whelan recently, you might want to do that to advance to the next stage of the quest. For quest guides and other help, you can check out our web page at: http://www.alteraeon.com/quests Good luck! Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Kim Friedman kimfr...@verizon.net wrote: Hi, any advice on how I can get out of the same situation? I play a level 6 cleric who is stuck in a field with two waypoints and would like to go somewhere else and do something other than killing things. I'm getting bored. Regards, Kim Friedman. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
You make some good points, and I never said this could be done without practice. IN fact, the documentary mentioned that when he first started, he'd play using karate chops, with his nose etc. however, the fact that he has perfect pitch, and can distinguish any number of notes played simultaneous is a great mystery. if I play 10 random notes on a piano, can you play all of them back perfectly? They even did orchestra tests to try and find out how much he could play at once, and since he obviously couldn't play everything he heard using block cords, he'd arpeggiate to try and play the piece. Derek can also play any song he hears almost instantly. in fact, it was mentioned on one of the videos I've watched that he's memorized over 1 songs. You request it, Derek will play it. Simple as that. If you guys haven't watched the documentary, I strongly suggest you do so. Fascinating stuff. it's obviously not all about being blind or sighted, and I doubt it's as simple as just practice. there have to be other factors involved. - Original Message - From: Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game Derek's level of ability becomes a lot more explicable though if you consider that the chap has spent more time each day of his life since a very young age at a piano than anywhere else, discounting sleep. It hasn't been just mindless plonking either, there have always been people around him who understand enough music theory to coach and encourage, those being there in addition to some of the finest tuition available. I guess it's fascinating to some how the raw talent was there in the first place, but talent plus insane amounts of practice usually equals virtuoso, Derek isn't an exception. He's an amazing musician for sure, but it's worth remembering how his days have been spent. All too often I see people asuming he just woke up one day as the player he is now. If only it were that easy! On 7/26/12, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: There are some true inexplicable mysteries out there though. This is a bit off topic, but since music came up I'd like to mention Derek Paravicini, the blind and severely autistic pianist. It would take a while to explain why this guy is so amazing, so I'll link you guys to a few videos. it'll give you an idea of what this guy's all about and his incredible improv skill and technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpIigV7-kJk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XztWqdEeyZQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BINSQNo8-18 and last one is a documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fibZudrZUto Now how could anything like this be explained logically? For all we know, this guy is the most talented pianist on earth, and that's no exageration. He can play any song, in any key, in any style he chooses. in fact he can play them chromatically. check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnqvmPCDli0 he can compose songs on the spot, however he cannot count to 10. explain this. It's sorta hard not to compare pianists to this guy now. lol - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game Hi Dark, Oh, don't get me started. I hate the so called blind privileged experience argument. That's a load of crap circulated by people who have never been sighted, who think their experience is superior to everyone else, and argue essentially from ignorance. Especially, when the subject at hand such as music has nothing to do with being blind or sighted in the first place. For example, a few years ago there was a blind Canadian jazz and blues-rock musician named Jeff Healey. He was an exceptionally good guitar player, and loved to show off his talent by playing the guitar flat on his lap. I can't argue with his skill as a guitarist, since I do admire his skills myself, but many people jumped to that stereotypical conclusion that because he was blind that made him somehow superior to sighted musicians. Of course, the fact he was blind had absolutely nothing to do with it. It all came down to a lot of time and practice to pull off feats like that. There have been a number of extremely talented sighted guitar players that are as good as if not better than Jeff Healey. People like Eddy Van Halen, Jimmi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Richard Van Zant from Linard Skinard, to name just a few have made a name for themselves as world renown guitarists. The point here is that being a very exceptional guitar player doesn't have anything to do with being blind. It all comes down to skill and talent. Anyway, getting back on topic here you are right. There are a number of experiences where blindness doesn't effect it one way or another. Sometimes a blind person has to do things differently, but can essentially
Re: [Audyssey] [Odyssey] working Holodeck game
Some brains seem to have talent right from the off, but I've never heard of anyone, let's say a musician in this case, who can then splurge that creativity out of their head into reality in one live take and do it justice without putting in the hours to develop muscle memory. If you know different, I'd be fascinated to know more. On 7/26/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Some people almost can its called talent. At 03:00 PM 7/26/2012, you wrote: Derek's level of ability becomes a lot more explicable though if you consider that the chap has spent more time each day of his life since a very young age at a piano than anywhere else, discounting sleep. It hasn't been just mindless plonking either, there have always been people around him who understand enough music theory to coach and encourage, those being there in addition to some of the finest tuition available. I guess it's fascinating to some how the raw talent was there in the first place, but talent plus insane amounts of practice usually equals virtuoso, Derek isn't an exception. He's an amazing musician for sure, but it's worth remembering how his days have been spent. All too often I see people asuming he just woke up one day as the player he is now. If only it were that easy! On 7/26/12, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: There are some true inexplicable mysteries out there though. This is a bit off topic, but since music came up I'd like to mention Derek Paravicini, the blind and severely autistic pianist. It would take a while to explain why this guy is so amazing, so I'll link you guys to a few videos. it'll give you an idea of what this guy's all about and his incredible improv skill and technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpIigV7-kJk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XztWqdEeyZQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BINSQNo8-18 and last one is a documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fibZudrZUto Now how could anything like this be explained logically? For all we know, this guy is the most talented pianist on earth, and that's no exageration. He can play any song, in any key, in any style he chooses. in fact he can play them chromatically. check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnqvmPCDli0 he can compose songs on the spot, however he cannot count to 10. explain this. It's sorta hard not to compare pianists to this guy now. lol - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game Hi Dark, Oh, don't get me started. I hate the so called blind privileged experience argument. That's a load of crap circulated by people who have never been sighted, who think their experience is superior to everyone else, and argue essentially from ignorance. Especially, when the subject at hand such as music has nothing to do with being blind or sighted in the first place. For example, a few years ago there was a blind Canadian jazz and blues-rock musician named Jeff Healey. He was an exceptionally good guitar player, and loved to show off his talent by playing the guitar flat on his lap. I can't argue with his skill as a guitarist, since I do admire his skills myself, but many people jumped to that stereotypical conclusion that because he was blind that made him somehow superior to sighted musicians. Of course, the fact he was blind had absolutely nothing to do with it. It all came down to a lot of time and practice to pull off feats like that. There have been a number of extremely talented sighted guitar players that are as good as if not better than Jeff Healey. People like Eddy Van Halen, Jimmi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Richard Van Zant from Linard Skinard, to name just a few have made a name for themselves as world renown guitarists. The point here is that being a very exceptional guitar player doesn't have anything to do with being blind. It all comes down to skill and talent. Anyway, getting back on topic here you are right. There are a number of experiences where blindness doesn't effect it one way or another. Sometimes a blind person has to do things differently, but can essentially have the same experience as his/her sighted friends and family. Cheers! On 7/25/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. both true, however one thing I want to avoid n any discussion with disability and effort is the idea of privelidged experience, that there is a blind experience of the world whicch nobody else can understand or participate in, even when that experience has nothing to do with blindness. i have for instance read papers by peoplke who claime that blind people, (and by their implication All! blind people), have an understanding and experience of music beyond everyone else. To me, this is exclusivist rubbish, sinse I've
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
let's assume VR turns out to be indistinguishable from the real thing? then what? all your senses are 100% realistically depicted in your mind. at that point, why would anyone care about the real thing? In fact, why should the real thing even exist if there's absolutely no difference between it and the simulation? Imagine playing Mortal Kombat and someone does a fatality on you? hahahahaha! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game Hi Cara, Exactly my point. People seriously need to try enjoy the life they have, deal with their problems in a mature and meaningful manner, and not try and use games as a substitute for life. Games, although fun and entertaining, are only a temporary pass time and nothing more. No matter how addictive virtual reality gaming may be it is no more and no less than a temporary pass time and often a poor substitute for reality. For example, in theory someone could fill a giant pool or tub full of water, warm it to 75 degrees, put on a pair of V.R. goggles, and jump in. The V.R. goggles might give him/her the simulation of swimming in the ocean while the tub of water gives him/her the physical sensation of being underwater. However, realistic it might seem it still would be a fake. It would be far more rewarding in the long run to travel to the beach, rent a wetsuit and tanks, and go swimming in the ocean. The experience of seeing it firsthand really and truly blows away any virtual reality experience man could ever create. Like I said earlier the people who spend almost all their time playing games have no lives. They don't know how to enjoy the life they have. There are many things more satisfying such as hiking, swimming, playing a musical instrument, whatever that are more satisfying if you just do them rather than pretending to do them in a game world. I'm sure some virtual reality experiences have their place. A person might get on a treadmill and put on a V.R. helmet to simulate walking through the woods, mountains, etc while they walk the treadmill. Its alright, might help a person pass the time, but I'd prefer going to the location and walking it in reality than via some V.R. helmet. To me V.R. still would only be a cheap substitute for the real thing. Cheers! On 7/26/12, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: Well-said Thomas! I heard a funny quote once which said basically, 'Go outside, the graphics are amazing!' lol! So I personally think we need to enjoy life. Enjoy the one we have before we try to make another one. :) This one is a huge gift so get up, get outside get with each other and have some big fun! :) Moving through this life can be as much fun, and much much cooler than any game. -Know what I mean? It's all in how you make it. :) Anyway, blah blah blah -just my two cents. Have an awesome day and hope I didn't take this one too far OT. Smiles, Cara :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Nicely put! That's what I was actually getting at. if this alternate reality is indistinguishable from actual reality, then what's your argument? - Original Message - From: Dakotah Rickard dakotah.rick...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game The trouble, and this is way philosophical, has been touched on more times than a ... well, let's just keep going... the real trouble is when it's not virtual reality but different reality. Virtual reality means a reality that is distinctly different from the, and here I quote, Real world. The thing about a direct neural stimulation is that it's pretty much gonna be impossible to tell it apart from reality, if that's what the person making the thing wants and if tht's whaat the market demands. I ask you, and yes this is related, what's the point of rendering graphically every single blade of gras in a field. What is the point in making blood splatters so realistic that they look identical to real life? I don't know, but that's what the graphics enthusiasts want. Environments that are entirely manipulatable, entirely destructive, and entirely too real. I'm not just talking about the nutballs who are unbalanced. I'm talking about pretty much anyone who calls themself a gamer. There's no going back to the old days of crap graphics. Eventually, our own high performance technology will be old news, and the graphics might just look real enough that they jump out and get you, but it's still just a picture on a screen, but what happens when the graphics are generated by the world's most advanced, most complicated, and most versitile computer, the human brain itself. I'm not talking about something we have now, but isn't it possible that the reality device we eventually construct can find the neurons which contain the smell for, say, apple pie, and they trigger those neurons. You don't think you smell apple pie or want to smell apple pie, you actually smell it. At that point, if the person generates their own reality, then that is their reality. This is hugely philosophical and wildly off topic, especially considering that the device that these university reserchers have made is essentially a glorified body motion tracker, but it is worth considering. We all assume that the person will be able to tell the difference between reality and the game world, but when that difference is more conceptual than psychological, who will want to leave a world in which they and their friends are popular, important, heroic, handsome, wealthy, powerful, and so forth. It's not a question of being balanced or unbalanced. People respond to positive stimuli by doing whatever it is that stimulates them more. Drugs, sex, rock and roll, running, eating chocolate, what ever you want to point to, it's all reinforced by reactions in the mind and in the brain, and the impressive array of awesomeness which is a main character in a game is, beyond question, a strong positive reinforcement. That's why games are addictive. Sure, they're an escape, but they're only an escape because they're so addictive. That's why more people ply games than enter sensory deprivation tanks. I hope you guys enjoyed this rambling wayword post. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 7/26/12, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Cara, Exactly my point. People seriously need to try enjoy the life they have, deal with their problems in a mature and meaningful manner, and not try and use games as a substitute for life. Games, although fun and entertaining, are only a temporary pass time and nothing more. No matter how addictive virtual reality gaming may be it is no more and no less than a temporary pass time and often a poor substitute for reality. For example, in theory someone could fill a giant pool or tub full of water, warm it to 75 degrees, put on a pair of V.R. goggles, and jump in. The V.R. goggles might give him/her the simulation of swimming in the ocean while the tub of water gives him/her the physical sensation of being underwater. However, realistic it might seem it still would be a fake. It would be far more rewarding in the long run to travel to the beach, rent a wetsuit and tanks, and go swimming in the ocean. The experience of seeing it firsthand really and truly blows away any virtual reality experience man could ever create. Like I said earlier the people who spend almost all their time playing games have no lives. They don't know how to enjoy the life they have. There are many things more satisfying such as hiking, swimming, playing a musical instrument, whatever that are more satisfying if you just do them rather than pretending to do them in a game world. I'm sure some virtual reality experiences have their place. A person might get on a treadmill and put on a V.R. helmet to simulate walking through the woods, mountains, etc while they walk the treadmill. Its alright, might help a
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] ... I doubt it's as simple as just practice. there have to be other factors involved. I'm on the other side of that opinion, Yohandy. I'm convinced its just as simple as practice, and that there's not really any other factors involved. I too know a huge number of songs and can play in the dark, even with my minimal training. Being blind isn't really much of a factor, as part of any good musician's training should be to play in pitch black so that there's no need to look at the instrument. Piano is one of the easier instruments for this, because the layout of the keys guides your fingers. I've had a lot more trouble playing guitar and bass blind than piano. I have little doubt that most people could do everything he does, if they dedicated their lives to it. (Rare cases like my mother, where there is an actual biological problem, are of course the exception. She is completely, utterly tone deaf, and actually cannot tell the difference between notes played up to two octaves apart. The entire remainder of my family, even my extended family, is fine.) Never underestimate the power of hard work and practice. I don't do what he does because I don't care that much; I like programming more. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] [Odyssey] working Holodeck game
Well here is one and there are more just google for child genius. http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/may/15/child-geniuses-prodigies --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Microsoft released Microsoft Flight then cancelled it
Hmmph. I wander why ms is doing this. Are they trying to move to the new metro system? If so I fear no disabled will have any fun with it. Though its unusual for ms to pull out of anything. At 07:16 a.m. 26/07/2012 -0400, you wrote: Earlier this year, Microsoft released Microsoft Flight, a reinvention of its Flight Simulator games of the past. Now the company has reportedly cancelled further development of the game and laid off around 35 staff members involved in the production. Microsoft says that the game will still be available for download for free via its website and on Steam, but that any future content for the game has been scrapped. https://microsoftflight.com/en-US/getStarted/ In addition, Microsoft has also cancelled development of Project Columbia, an unannounced game that would have made use of the Kinect sensor for the Xbox 360. In a statement regarding the cancellations, Microsoft says, Many factors were considered in the difficult decision to stop development on Microsoft Flight and Project Columbia, but we feel it will help us better align with our long-term goals and development plans. For Microsoft Flight,we will continue to support the community that has embraced the title and the game will still be available to download for free. http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-cancels-flight-and-project-columbia-development-26240324/ --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] bgt super mario brothers
its somewhere in the forum though I have not played it for a while. never got the hang of it to be honest. At 07:25 p.m. 26/07/2012 +0200, you wrote: Hi all I read on audiogames.net about the audio super Mario brothers done in bgt. Have you guys played it? And how do you find it? Is it possible to play the game without a braille display? And is it possible to play the game without a screen reader? I read on audiogames.net that n v d a can be used to read certain info but I'm not quite sure if I need n v d A to play the game. Does this game have all the levels the classic nes game had? I know how to go about downloading the game, but I'd like to hear how others have experienced the game. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Microsoft released Microsoft Flight then cancelled it
Hi Shaun, No. Metro has nothing to do with it. Metro is a new U.I. for Windows 8 which has no bearing on these particular games. In particular Project Columbia which was for the XBox had nothing to do with Windows 8 and Metro. Cheers! On 7/26/12, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: Hmmph. I wander why ms is doing this. Are they trying to move to the new metro system? If so I fear no disabled will have any fun with it. Though its unusual for ms to pull out of anything. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Well one thing that comes to mind is the red dwarf book entitled better than life. I can get adicted to standard gaming, wearing my phones and forgetting the world around me. If I forgot the world totally that would be a problem. And as movies like the matrix and others shows that we need to be carefull on what we wish for and what if we get it would we take for granted. We are one step from ai but if we get that self aware thing and flumix it as it were there is a possibility that we may just do ourselves in perminantly with ourselves as our own weapons targets and enemies. We are not far from it either, we have the siri system and thats scary enough. We seem to be making devices easier to handle already. It stands to reason that vr games will come. At 03:02 p.m. 26/07/2012 -0400, you wrote: Hi Dakotah and all, Yes, virtual reality gaming would be extremely addictive. There have been a number of science fiction books, movies, and television shows that speculate how addictive it could be. One of the more interesting examples is the Sliders episode where they end up on an alternative planet earth where everyone is cyborg implanted into a world wide virtual reality game. While the show was a bit extreme I do think if the technology is ever invented it could have mass addiction from people who simply don't know how to do things in moderation. As you pointed out there have been some extreme cases where people have been catheterized whatever just so they could continue gaming. There is a well known story where a guy died of a heart attack after playing a popular roll playing game for fifty-some hours straight. Such is insanity from my point of view, but there are obsessive-compulsives out there who just can't quit for some reason. They go on and on until it kills them. True VR gaming would only be that much more compelling. That said, that sort of thing tends to be the exception and not the rule. A person who is well balanced, mentally stable, with a decent life won't indulge in extreme VR gaming. They have no need to. The people who make headline news for dying after playing games for several hours straight generally have absolutely screwed up lives to begin with. They often play games to escape reality, close themselves off from the real world, and use it as a substitute for real life. Those people are a danger to themselves and need mental help. Cheers! On 7/26/12, Dakotah Rickard dakotah.rick...@gmail.com wrote: Responding directly to the trans-cranial attachments, it would be tremendously addictive. There's been more than a little speculative fiction about virtual reality and its effect on human psychology. I personally hope it doesn't come about for a long time, if ever, that virtual gaming is that compelling. I've already heard of some cases where people have been catheterized so that they can continue gaming uninterrupted. Imagine, then, the disorders and disfunctions caused by a perfect virtual simulation constructed and played out in your own mind. Returning slightly to a topic I touched on, I do think that there are levels and levels of perspective, as I spoke about in my previous post. It would be foolish to assume everyone's perspective is the same. There is an argument that those who have been blind for the duration of their lives have a different perspective on blindness than do those who have gotten used to being blind. This is not to say that either perspective is superior, just that they both exist, and it is not an exclusively singular perspective we're dealing with. A person who was taught to hate blindness and being blind will respond poorly to it as compared with a person who was taught that blindness is like godhood. I give ludicrous examples to make a point. The plain facts are that our perspectives determine our reality. If that perspective was molded through adolescence to be that of a sighted individual, and if most sighted people feel that losing their sight would be worse than losing any other sense, which tends to be the case, then a sighted person going blind in later adolescence or beyond would feel differently about the loss of their sight than a person would if they lost it earlier in life. There are many activities, whether they be games, fencing, building a house, or cooking a meal, which consistently require the same effort and the same modifications dependent on skill, ability, and perception, and there are activities which require more effort for those who lose their sight later on and activities which require more effort when sight is lost early. This suggests differences in the psychological makeup of the person, let alone possible physical brain differences. There are also activities which the sighted person will find easier to do or conceptualize than will blind individuals. In some cases, this is because sighted persons make the majority of the products and services in the world. In some other cases it is because
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
Perhaps Siri gives out those I'm really sorry, but I can't take any requests right now messages when she's tied up with the more delicate stages of planning to anialate mankind as we know it. Based on how often she says that to me lately, I'm not making too many plans LOL. On 7/26/12, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: Well one thing that comes to mind is the red dwarf book entitled better than life. I can get adicted to standard gaming, wearing my phones and forgetting the world around me. If I forgot the world totally that would be a problem. And as movies like the matrix and others shows that we need to be carefull on what we wish for and what if we get it would we take for granted. We are one step from ai but if we get that self aware thing and flumix it as it were there is a possibility that we may just do ourselves in perminantly with ourselves as our own weapons targets and enemies. We are not far from it either, we have the siri system and thats scary enough. We seem to be making devices easier to handle already. It stands to reason that vr games will come. At 03:02 p.m. 26/07/2012 -0400, you wrote: Hi Dakotah and all, Yes, virtual reality gaming would be extremely addictive. There have been a number of science fiction books, movies, and television shows that speculate how addictive it could be. One of the more interesting examples is the Sliders episode where they end up on an alternative planet earth where everyone is cyborg implanted into a world wide virtual reality game. While the show was a bit extreme I do think if the technology is ever invented it could have mass addiction from people who simply don't know how to do things in moderation. As you pointed out there have been some extreme cases where people have been catheterized whatever just so they could continue gaming. There is a well known story where a guy died of a heart attack after playing a popular roll playing game for fifty-some hours straight. Such is insanity from my point of view, but there are obsessive-compulsives out there who just can't quit for some reason. They go on and on until it kills them. True VR gaming would only be that much more compelling. That said, that sort of thing tends to be the exception and not the rule. A person who is well balanced, mentally stable, with a decent life won't indulge in extreme VR gaming. They have no need to. The people who make headline news for dying after playing games for several hours straight generally have absolutely screwed up lives to begin with. They often play games to escape reality, close themselves off from the real world, and use it as a substitute for real life. Those people are a danger to themselves and need mental help. Cheers! On 7/26/12, Dakotah Rickard dakotah.rick...@gmail.com wrote: Responding directly to the trans-cranial attachments, it would be tremendously addictive. There's been more than a little speculative fiction about virtual reality and its effect on human psychology. I personally hope it doesn't come about for a long time, if ever, that virtual gaming is that compelling. I've already heard of some cases where people have been catheterized so that they can continue gaming uninterrupted. Imagine, then, the disorders and disfunctions caused by a perfect virtual simulation constructed and played out in your own mind. Returning slightly to a topic I touched on, I do think that there are levels and levels of perspective, as I spoke about in my previous post. It would be foolish to assume everyone's perspective is the same. There is an argument that those who have been blind for the duration of their lives have a different perspective on blindness than do those who have gotten used to being blind. This is not to say that either perspective is superior, just that they both exist, and it is not an exclusively singular perspective we're dealing with. A person who was taught to hate blindness and being blind will respond poorly to it as compared with a person who was taught that blindness is like godhood. I give ludicrous examples to make a point. The plain facts are that our perspectives determine our reality. If that perspective was molded through adolescence to be that of a sighted individual, and if most sighted people feel that losing their sight would be worse than losing any other sense, which tends to be the case, then a sighted person going blind in later adolescence or beyond would feel differently about the loss of their sight than a person would if they lost it earlier in life. There are many activities, whether they be games, fencing, building a house, or cooking a meal, which consistently require the same effort and the same modifications dependent on skill, ability, and perception, and there are activities which require more effort for those who lose their sight later on and activities which require more effort when sight is lost early. This
Re: [Audyssey] Zombies, Run
Hi Folks, Using voice over, a blind person has played the first few levels of Zombies Run! He can't figure out how to assign the supplies he has recovered or how to build the hospital. it is currently not possible to assign supplies or put up buildings, I know that at least two people have contacted the developers, and they said that a solution was being worked on, but it could be a few months before it was released. The only way around the problem was to extract the audio files from the app, and listen to them on the computer as they are ordinary mp3s. yes I know its cheating, but why should I have to wait for the developers to take there time getting the app accessible. I mostly got the app for the story anyway, not for the fitness element. Amy wrote, But really, running away from zombies with this app is probably the most exciting workout ever. It's incredibly immersive, and the stoyline feels like a novel. Last workout, my helicopter crash landed outside of the base because a mysterious force shot it down with an RPG, and I was out in the middle of the desert with all these flesh eating zombies, and then this radio tower guy (with a REALLY attractive voice) contacted me and made me run through a hospital, where his old flame turned out to be, ha, ha, no. I refuse to spoil the storyline. It's too amazing. Also, everyone has British accents! I secretly bought the game for that reason alone. The zombies were a bonus. Requires iOS 5 or above. Works on iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, and iPod Touch 3rd gen and 4th gen. $7.99 US £5.49 Created by Six to Start https://www.zombiesrungame.com/ with award-winning novelist Naomi Alderman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
and of course, people keep missing the point. Dude, I'm blind as well. it's the reason I'm on this list. and I play piano. been playing for years. so I'm aware that blind people can play piano. Sheesh we aren't ignorant on here. I'm not referring to the playing itself as I've explained several times, I'm referring to the rest of the things that make him unique. - Original Message - From: Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] ... I doubt it's as simple as just practice. there have to be other factors involved. I'm on the other side of that opinion, Yohandy. I'm convinced its just as simple as practice, and that there's not really any other factors involved. I too know a huge number of songs and can play in the dark, even with my minimal training. Being blind isn't really much of a factor, as part of any good musician's training should be to play in pitch black so that there's no need to look at the instrument. Piano is one of the easier instruments for this, because the layout of the keys guides your fingers. I've had a lot more trouble playing guitar and bass blind than piano. I have little doubt that most people could do everything he does, if they dedicated their lives to it. (Rare cases like my mother, where there is an actual biological problem, are of course the exception. She is completely, utterly tone deaf, and actually cannot tell the difference between notes played up to two octaves apart. The entire remainder of my family, even my extended family, is fine.) Never underestimate the power of hard work and practice. I don't do what he does because I don't care that much; I like programming more. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game
I have come to an important conclusion. I am not a moderator, not at all, but I strongly suggest we stop this topic here. There's nothing more to say than we've already said. There really isn't much more to say on holodecks, virtual reality, blindness and its perspectives, savantism, or music. I hope that everyone will raise their glass to a good, well-rounded, huge topic that's about as off- as one can get. Here's to a good discussion left to end gracefully. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 7/26/12, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: and of course, people keep missing the point. Dude, I'm blind as well. it's the reason I'm on this list. and I play piano. been playing for years. so I'm aware that blind people can play piano. Sheesh we aren't ignorant on here. I'm not referring to the playing itself as I've explained several times, I'm referring to the rest of the things that make him unique. - Original Message - From: Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] working Holodeck game On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] ... I doubt it's as simple as just practice. there have to be other factors involved. I'm on the other side of that opinion, Yohandy. I'm convinced its just as simple as practice, and that there's not really any other factors involved. I too know a huge number of songs and can play in the dark, even with my minimal training. Being blind isn't really much of a factor, as part of any good musician's training should be to play in pitch black so that there's no need to look at the instrument. Piano is one of the easier instruments for this, because the layout of the keys guides your fingers. I've had a lot more trouble playing guitar and bass blind than piano. I have little doubt that most people could do everything he does, if they dedicated their lives to it. (Rare cases like my mother, where there is an actual biological problem, are of course the exception. She is completely, utterly tone deaf, and actually cannot tell the difference between notes played up to two octaves apart. The entire remainder of my family, even my extended family, is fine.) Never underestimate the power of hard work and practice. I don't do what he does because I don't care that much; I like programming more. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Zombies, Run
Hi. You can now assign your own supplies by creating a zombielink account online at www.zombiesrungame.com You then log into your account via the settings menu in the Zombies Run app on your phone. This way, you can assign supplies on your computer and will update your app. The website is accessible; I had no problem assigning supplies. Christina -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Phil Vlasak Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:14 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Zombies, Run Hi Folks, Using voice over, a blind person has played the first few levels of Zombies Run! He can't figure out how to assign the supplies he has recovered or how to build the hospital. it is currently not possible to assign supplies or put up buildings, I know that at least two people have contacted the developers, and they said that a solution was being worked on, but it could be a few months before it was released. The only way around the problem was to extract the audio files from the app, and listen to them on the computer as they are ordinary mp3s. yes I know its cheating, but why should I have to wait for the developers to take there time getting the app accessible. I mostly got the app for the story anyway, not for the fitness element. Amy wrote, But really, running away from zombies with this app is probably the most exciting workout ever. It's incredibly immersive, and the stoyline feels like a novel. Last workout, my helicopter crash landed outside of the base because a mysterious force shot it down with an RPG, and I was out in the middle of the desert with all these flesh eating zombies, and then this radio tower guy (with a REALLY attractive voice) contacted me and made me run through a hospital, where his old flame turned out to be, ha, ha, no. I refuse to spoil the storyline. It's too amazing. Also, everyone has British accents! I secretly bought the game for that reason alone. The zombies were a bonus. Requires iOS 5 or above. Works on iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, and iPod Touch 3rd gen and 4th gen. $7.99 US £5.49 Created by Six to Start https://www.zombiesrungame.com/ with award-winning novelist Naomi Alderman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] alter aeon: starting again.
Hi all I plan to ignore my other characters on alter aeon and start a new character called Dinah. I want her to be a lean mean fighting machine, so what skills and classes do you think I should go for? And what about equipment, I've never understood how to choose that? Lindsay Cowell --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] something interesting
Here is the start of a three part on how the blind play games on the computer, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVc_0dUxlsQfeature=g-vrec --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] alter aeon: starting again.
hi, go for warrior thief when choosing a hit set go for hitroll and damroll hitroll determines how easily you penetrate armor and damroll determines how hard you will hit hope that helps -- From: lindsay_cow...@btinternet.com Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 3:47 AM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] alter aeon: starting again. Hi all I plan to ignore my other characters on alter aeon and start a new character called Dinah. I want her to be a lean mean fighting machine, so what skills and classes do you think I should go for? And what about equipment, I've never understood how to choose that? Lindsay Cowell --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
