[gentoo-dev] Re: Resignation
Tach Tim, 0x2B859DE3 (PGP-PK-ID) Tim Yamin schrieb: So long, and thanks for all the fish... Even I hope you rethink it... V-Li -- Fingerprint: 68C5 D381 B69A A777 6A91 E999 350A AD7C 2B85 9DE3 http://www.gnupg.org/ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
Dominique Michel wrote: When an user or a potential user read it and want to do a networkless install, it will just use the Live CD install, and just get in trouble. It is even worse when many Linux magazines will have this CD. And you cannot argue at it is just to use catalyst or to burn a CD from a stage 3, when the doc say a bootable CD that contains everything you need to get Gentoo Linux up and running. That statement is still true. I have done 3 networkless installations for this release, without a problem. I used the installer. Using it you get your box up and running fast and convenient, so what exactly is the problem? It's not like you can't get Gentoo running without a network connection anymore. -- Kind Regards, Simon Stelling Gentoo/AMD64 developer -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: CFLAGS paragraph submission for the GWN
Dice R. Random [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Sun, 08 Oct 2006 18:30:56 -0700: For example c-ffast-math/c is added by the xmame/xmess ebuilds on most architectures even tho you SHOULD NOT put it in your CFLAGS./li tho should be though FWIW, that addition was at my suggestion, and I used the informal list spelling I always do. I didn't expect it to make it literally into the proposed paragraph, but it must have slipped by him when he took my suggestion. Lionel: No further suggestions here. Good work, honestly better than I'd have the patience to try, and I'll be looking forward to seeing it in GWN. =8^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: multiple inheritance support for profiles, Round 2
On Sat, 2006-10-07 at 23:19 -0500, Andrew Gaffney wrote: Should we add multiple inheritance support now? The changes necessary to add this support are minimal and we can have this feature in portage-2.1.2 [3], which I estimate will be ready for a final release in approximately 3 to 5 weeks. Are you proposing just adding the support or creating the new profiles as well? If it's just the support, adding it into portage now certainly won't hurt anything (unless someone really fscks up the current single-parent cascaded profiles in the tree) and is probably a good idea. If you're talking about putting together the new profiles now as well, is it going to be a separate profile tree (much as default-linux/ was created for cascaded profiles)? Will it be directly under profiles/? default-linux/? I have a set of profiles already (to replace default-linux) that use default/linux as the base. It can live side-by-side with the current profiles quite easily. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Timothy Redaelli (drizzt)
Petteri Räty wrote: So please welcome drizzt and give him the usual warm welcome. Ohh a shiny new minion for the media lairs, mind you Flameeyes? Ok, being serious, I'm happy that the Italian conspirancy has another member, I hope sooner or later we could all meet somewhere for a drink and a chat =) lu - the minions of my minions are transitively my minions? -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: CFLAGS paragraph submission for the GWN
Duncan wrote the following on 09.10.2006 12:51 : Dice R. Random [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Sun, 08 Oct 2006 18:30:56 -0700: For example c-ffast-math/c is added by the xmame/xmess ebuilds on most architectures even tho you SHOULD NOT put it in your CFLAGS./li tho should be though FWIW, that addition was at my suggestion, and I used the informal list spelling I always do. I didn't expect it to make it literally into the proposed paragraph, but it must have slipped by him when he took my suggestion. I did hesitate :-) But as english isn't my native language, I chose to belive that 'tho' was now acceptable. I cc: gwn-feedback so that they are aware of the corrections. Here are Dice's corrections: 1/ Extra space before Gentoo in: link=http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml Gentoo experience/uri in the first paragraph. 2/ s/frustating/frustrating/ 3/ Example should be plural in pExample of this are :/p 4/ s/optimised/optimized/ 5/ s/tho/though Lionel. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: CFLAGS paragraph submission for the GWN
Lionel Bouton [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:51:32 +0200: I did hesitate :-) But as english isn't my native language, I chose to belive that 'tho' was now acceptable. Well, I'd say it is in informal usage, email, IM and the like. Certainly I'd argue so as I use it there. However, for something more formal like GWN, it wouldn't be considered acceptable, and that's not likely to change for another generation at least. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Alexis Ballier (aballier)
On Monday 09 October 2006 19:40, Christian Heim wrote: Its my pleasure to introduce to you Alexis Ballier (also known as aballier), our latest addition joining to help out with the media-sound and media-video herd. When you say the surprise! I didn't even know we were going to have fresh meat for dinner... (lu forgot to tell me :P) He hails from Marseille (that's in France if someone doesn't know where Marseille is). Is where the soap come from, isn't it? So please welcome Alexis as a new fellow developer among us! Welcome Alexis! Now I can relax a bit :D -- Diego Flameeyes Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/ Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Sound, ALSA, PAM, KDE, CJK, Ruby ... pgpoeSFHF2Xn1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Timothy Redaelli (drizzt)
On Sunday, 08. October. 2006 14:17, Petteri Räty wrote: It's my pleasure to introduce to you Timothy drizzt Redaelli, the latest addition joining to help out with the Gentoo/FreeBSD effort. He hails from Milan, Italy. He currently works as an embedded programmer using ASM/C. It probably doesn't come as a surprise to anyone that he was mentored by Flameeyes and is the latest addition to his minions. *ugh* Another new minion for Diego :) Sure he has fun with them ;) Timothy is skilled in system work, setting up and securing servers. He is a staff member of GUFI (Gruppo Utenti FreeBSD Italia) and FreeSBIE (FreeBSD LiveCD) and he maintains some packages of FreeBSD. So please welcome drizzt and give him the usual warm welcome. It's nice to have you with us Timothy ! -- Christian Heim phreak at gentoo.org GPG key ID: 9A9F68E6 Fingerprint: AEC4 87B8 32B8 4922 B3A9 DF79 CAE3 556F 9A9F 68E6 pgpqomv5fNFp8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Alexis Ballier (aballier)
Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote: On Monday 09 October 2006 19:40, Christian Heim wrote: Its my pleasure to introduce to you Alexis Ballier (also known as aballier), our latest addition joining to help out with the media-sound and media-video herd. When you say the surprise! I didn't even know we were going to have fresh meat for dinner... (lu forgot to tell me :P) eh... (all the blame to me as usual...) He hails from Marseille (that's in France if someone doesn't know where Marseille is). Is where the soap come from, isn't it? And Bouillabaisse if you like soups =) Welcome I was just waiting for you to unmask yet another ffmpeg snapshot ^^; lu -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Alexis Ballier (aballier)
On Monday, 9 October 2006, Christian Heim wrote: So please welcome Alexis as a new fellow developer among us! Super, bienvenue Alexis :) -- Cheers Xavier -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
Hello, I am very glad to here that a complet networkless install via a stage3 on the dvd without the installer would be possible again! But why you write always something about the distfiles? Are there users who want this? I really don't know. I personally, think in the same way like you! It is unecessary, because we got every week new ebuilds und useflags, if someone would a total customized system he need to load alle sources (stage1 or save it on the hdd before installation). But to include the sources need simply too much space. I also think it it enough to deliver only one stage3 (i686 on the x86-disk, x86-64 on amd64-disk...). Greetz On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 08:47 -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 10:38 +0200, Simon Stelling wrote: Dominique Michel wrote: When an user or a potential user read it and want to do a networkless install, it will just use the Live CD install, and just get in trouble. It is even worse when many Linux magazines will have this CD. And you cannot argue at it is just to use catalyst or to burn a CD from a stage 3, when the doc say a bootable CD that contains everything you need to get Gentoo Linux up and running. That statement is still true. I have done 3 networkless installations for this release, without a problem. I used the installer. Using it you get your box up and running fast and convenient, so what exactly is the problem? It's not like you can't get Gentoo running without a network connection anymore. The problem is that it is a change, and our users resist changes. While I appreciate the input from our users, I have no intentions on going backwards to what we had before. I was planning on adding more content to the LiveDVD images next time around, such as more packages, and likely the stage3 tarball. Whether I include any distfiles or not is still up in the air, mostly due to the massive number of bugs that were caused every single release due to people using the provided distfiles/packages incorrectly. We simply don't have enough manpower to test every single possible combination of USE and packages during the release cycle and our calls for testing usually go mostly unanswered. We saw a definite increase in the number of developers helping with testing this past release, but we still need more. At any rate, the next release will allow a user to *very* easily to networkless installs *without* requiring them use the installer itself. I will have this documented by that time, so there's no need to fret over it. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Alexis Ballier (aballier)
On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 07:40:07PM +0200, Christian Heim wrote: He hails from Marseille (that's in France if someone doesn't know where Marseille is). Where's France? ;-) So please welcome Alexis as a new fellow developer among us! Welcome Alexis! cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org pgpwcJYLXfEzH.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Alexis Ballier (aballier)
On Mon, Oct 9, 2006 at 20:30:36 +0200, Christian Heim wrote: Its my pleasure to introduce to you Alexis Ballier (also known as aballier), our latest addition joining to help out with the media-sound and media-video herd. He hails from Marseille (that's in France if someone doesn't know where Marseille is). So far he hasn't contributed anything big (like being a dev) to any project, so this will be his first time ! He had planned to create a website to diffuse the useless stuff - that's how he calls his previous contributions to other projects - , but has always been to lazy to learn how to create a website. His skillset only includes the basic linux languages (that being beneath English, C and C++, but also BASH) and ocaml (wtf is ocaml? - thanks to Alec I know that now). I think you need to be french to know ocaml. It's a bit sad because it's such a great language... He's currently finishing his master degree in computer science (another one :P) and will be a PhD student next year. Currently he doesn't have any hobbies except riding his bike because that prevents him most time to use the car or metro (thus is leaving more time for Gentoo, yay!). He also enjoys climbing and walking. So please welcome Alexis as a new fellow developer among us! Welcome, I hope you'll have some serious fun (though I'm not sure bumping ffmpeg qualifies...). I'm glad to see that the french conspiracy is widening! /Alexandre -- Hi, I'm a .signature virus! Please copy me in your ~/.signature. pgpfFWa8Rzzuy.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] o.g.o: planet upgraded
2006/10/6, Stuart Herbert [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Just a note to say that I've upgraded overlay.gentoo.org's copy of Planet to the latest nightly release. (We use Planet to generate o.g.o's front page). overlays If you notice any problems, please let me know. Best regards, Stu -- --ArYiX -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Alexis Ballier (aballier)
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 19:40 +0200, Christian Heim wrote: He hails from Marseille (that's in France if someone doesn't know where Marseille is). So far he hasn't contributed anything big (like being a dev) Since, I'm in the US, I assume you mean that this Mar-Say place is in Freedomia. So welcome to our newest Freedom-man. Thanks, -- Seemant Kulleen Developer, Gentoo Linux -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Alexis Ballier (aballier)
Alexandre Buisse wrote: His skillset only includes the basic linux languages (that being beneath English, C and C++, but also BASH) and ocaml (wtf is ocaml? - thanks to Alec I know that now). I think you need to be french to know ocaml. I know it, should I have to be afraid? lu -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Alexis Ballier (aballier)
On Monday 09 October 2006 21:39, Luca Barbato wrote: I think you need to be french to know ocaml. I know it, should I have to be afraid? You're from Turin, you're near enough not to be counted :P -- Diego Flameeyes Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/ Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Sound, ALSA, PAM, KDE, CJK, Ruby ... pgpoasHYivLhd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
On 2006.10.09 19:42, Peter Weber wrote: [snip] But to include the sources need simply too much space. I also think it it enough to deliver only one stage3 (i686 on the x86-disk, x86-64 on amd64-disk...). Greetz [snip] Peter, Such a disk will not support P1s and AMD k6 CPUs (or older). Is anyone still using Gentoo on anything older ? Dropping support for x86 i686 is a debate we need to have some time I suppose, its a question of when. There is clearly only a few users, besides myself using systems that old, since there were very few forums posts about the original 2006.1 x86 media not workign on P1 and AMD k6 based systems. Regards, Roy Bamford (neddyseagoon) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: multiple inheritance support for profiles, Round 2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thanks for your feedback, everyone. I've gone ahead and enabled multiple inheritance in portage-2.1.2_pre2-r7. I would appreciate it if people would start experimenting with it (of course, please don't use multiple inheritance in the live tree in ways that will hurt users of the current single inheritance profiles). Zac -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFKqiW/ejvha5XGaMRAjl3AKCwhjRcXibtTsk0DANsusiBcbfJnwCg5btA ybwPzQvwyyXXafRic+Habyo= =8P/q -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: multiple inheritance support for profiles, Round 2
Zac Medico wrote: (of course, please don't use multiple inheritance in the live tree in ways that will hurt users of the current single inheritance profiles). If someone does, can we blame you? :) -- Andrew Gaffneyhttp://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/ Gentoo Linux Developer Installer Project Today's lesson in political correctness: Go asphyxiate on a phallus -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: multiple inheritance support for profiles, Round 2
Andrew Gaffney wrote: Zac Medico wrote: (of course, please don't use multiple inheritance in the live tree in ways that will hurt users of the current single inheritance profiles). If someone does, can we blame you? :) Don't blame the tool, blame the tool using the tool improperly. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
On Thursday 05 October 2006 10:48 am, Chris Gianelloni wrote: What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want? So what about those of us who DO want that? Forcing us into an installer is more constricting and gives us less freedom--That's not the Gentoo way. If the tool forces the user to do things a particular way, then the tool is working against, rather than for, the user. We have all experienced situations where tools seem to be imposing their respective wills on us. This is backwards, and contrary to the Gentoo philosophy. - Daniel Robbins See, what *you* seem to be missing is that we're trying to provide a better environment for our users. The LiveCD is *not* just an installation medium anymore. It is a full-fledged Gentoo environment. It can be used for showcasing Gentoo, as well as system recovery *and* installation. There's a thing called self-reference criteria. It's anathema in marketing. If you think you know what is best for your users, you will all of your users and thus most of your employees. Your users know what is best for them, *not* you, as you are not a user (whether you have it installed on your desktop notwithstanding you are *not* a user). If your users still want a Universal LiveCD, then the onus is on Gentoo to provide one. -- Kari Hazzard -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
Kari Hazzard wrote: There's a thing called self-reference criteria. It's anathema in marketing. If you think you know what is best for your users, you will all of your users and thus most of your employees. Your users know what is best for them, *not* you, as you are not a user (whether you have it installed on your desktop notwithstanding you are *not* a user). If your users still want a Universal LiveCD, then the onus is on Gentoo to provide one. That's only true if you assume Gentoo developers are in this for the users and not for themselves and their own personal satisfaction. Thanks, Donnie signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 20:42 +0200, Peter Weber wrote: Hello, I am very glad to here that a complet networkless install via a stage3 on the dvd without the installer would be possible again! I never said that. At any rate, the next release will allow a user to *very* easily to networkless installs *without* requiring them use the installer itself. I will have this documented by that time, so there's no need to fret over it. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 07:40 -0400, Kari Hazzard wrote: On Thursday 05 October 2006 10:48 am, Chris Gianelloni wrote: What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want? So what about those of us who DO want that? Forcing us into an installer is more constricting and gives us less freedom--That's not the Gentoo way. Start building... If the tool forces the user to do things a particular way, then the tool is working against, rather than for, the user. We have all experienced situations where tools seem to be imposing their respective wills on us. This is backwards, and contrary to the Gentoo philosophy. - Daniel Robbins That's nice. Nobody is forcing you to use the Installer. Nobody is forcing you to even use Gentoo release media to do your installations. Your point here is a complete non-point. You're completely welcome to take the minimal CD, a stage3 tarball, and wget and build your own Universal CD. You're also more than welcome to fire up catalyst and build a Universal CD yourself. What you are *not* welcome to do is try to tell me how I'm going to spend the time that I volunteer to Gentoo. Now, if you would like to hire me to build a Universal CD, then contact me and we can discuss my compensation. Otherwise, I have more important things (to me) to spend my time doing. See, what *you* seem to be missing is that we're trying to provide a better environment for our users. The LiveCD is *not* just an installation medium anymore. It is a full-fledged Gentoo environment. It can be used for showcasing Gentoo, as well as system recovery *and* installation. There's a thing called self-reference criteria. It's anathema in marketing. If you think you know what is best for your users, you will all of your users and thus most of your employees. Your users know what is best for them, *not* you, as you are not a user (whether you have it installed on your desktop notwithstanding you are *not* a user). If your users still want a Universal LiveCD, then the onus is on Gentoo to provide one. I'm sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on this one. Release Engineering has a constant problem of not having enough help. Now some people want to try to tell us that we need to do more work just because they don't like a little change. Well guess what, never going to happen. It's pretty simple. So long as we have limited resources, we're going to spend our limited time on what *we* want to spend time doing. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 07:40:53 -0400 Kari Hazzard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | If the tool forces the user to do things a particular way, then the | tool is working against, rather than for, the user. That doesn't mean that the user is using the right tool. If you're trying to nail something to a wall, complaining because your bicycle can't do it doesn't mean the bicycle is somehow defective. -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
You've wrote sth. about more content and a stage3 on the LiveDVD, or not?! On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 17:50 -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 20:42 +0200, Peter Weber wrote: Hello, I am very glad to here that a complet networkless install via a stage3 on the dvd without the installer would be possible again! I never said that. At any rate, the next release will allow a user to *very* easily to networkless installs *without* requiring them use the installer itself. I will have this documented by that time, so there's no need to fret over it. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
It was only a suggestion, not a decision. Of course, there are only a little number of this early systems. i686 would be really nice, i386 would be nice, too ;-) On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 20:45 +0100, Roy Bamford wrote: On 2006.10.09 19:42, Peter Weber wrote: [snip] But to include the sources need simply too much space. I also think it it enough to deliver only one stage3 (i686 on the x86-disk, x86-64 on amd64-disk...). Greetz [snip] Peter, Such a disk will not support P1s and AMD k6 CPUs (or older). Is anyone still using Gentoo on anything older ? Dropping support for x86 i686 is a debate we need to have some time I suppose, its a question of when. There is clearly only a few users, besides myself using systems that old, since there were very few forums posts about the original 2006.1 x86 media not workign on P1 and AMD k6 based systems. Regards, Roy Bamford (neddyseagoon) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
Kari Hazzard wrote: On Thursday 05 October 2006 10:48 am, Chris Gianelloni wrote: What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want? So what about those of us who DO want that? Forcing us into an installer is more constricting and gives us less freedom--That's not the Gentoo way. If the tool forces the user to do things a particular way, then the tool is working against, rather than for, the user. We have all experienced situations where tools seem to be imposing their respective wills on us. This is backwards, and contrary to the Gentoo philosophy. - Daniel Robbins While I like that quote; I think we are a long way from the times when it applied to what Gentoo was. Gentoo is at it's core a metadistribution; it is *those* tools to which I believe Daniel is speaking of in that statement. Obviously I can't make a liveCD that will satisfy everyone; there is no point in trying to do so. However I can give you a tree and catalyst and all the parts you need to build your own. That is what we call enabling and is really what I think his whole point was. See, what *you* seem to be missing is that we're trying to provide a better environment for our users. The LiveCD is *not* just an installation medium anymore. It is a full-fledged Gentoo environment. It can be used for showcasing Gentoo, as well as system recovery *and* installation. There's a thing called self-reference criteria. It's anathema in marketing. If you think you know what is best for your users, you will all of your users and thus most of your employees. Your users know what is best for them, *not* you, as you are not a user (whether you have it installed on your desktop notwithstanding you are *not* a user). If your users still want a Universal LiveCD, then the onus is on Gentoo to provide one. I concur with Donnie here; Gentoo exists not because of Users, but because of (a subset of active) Developers. It isn't a statement that is meant to trash users (because you are quite helpful in many instances). But the naive thought that Gentoo revolves around users iswell, naive. Gentoo was here before there were thousands of users, in the unlikely event that you all switch distros, Gentoo will probably still be here. We try to incorporate feedback from users because we are trying to make our work coincide with that feedback. Sometimes this is possible; many times it is not possible. Generally more Users = larger pool of Devs, and more Devs = more cool stuff going on here. To make another argument; if I go buy a RHEL3 box set and then complain because the liveCD doesn't have some key programs (lets say cryptsetup-luks statically compiled so I can boot off of a USB key and encrypt my / partition), is the onus on them to release a new CD just for me? Hell I'm a paying customer! But they don't care. And you aren't even required to pay for Gentoo at all! So why do you expect more? -Alec -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
I would like to state my opinion on this... debate. the installer for me... is inadequate it does not allow for nearly enough customization. I generally keep my boot partitions at 32 MB why? because I don't need anymore space than that( I have never even used half that much). I optomize my ext3 partions using tune2fs as well. I also have a seperate partition for portage and distfiles. also not supported. fortunately my network works. however I would prefer myself not to have to dowload tarballs which seem to only be updated on the next release anyway. I am hoping that one day that the GLI will support full customization, but I won't complain as long as I can get stage3 tarballs. as far as older than i686 I do have 1 or 2 i586s that I have gentoo on. I would like to see a generic tarball kept around for anything older than i686. because gentoo is one of the few distributions I've been able to get working on older systems. It would be really sad to see such support go. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 19:11:47 -0400 Caleb Cushing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I would like to state my opinion on this... debate. the installer for | me... is inadequate it does not allow for nearly enough customization. Then don't use the installer. -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Alexis Ballier (aballier)
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 19:40 +0200, Christian Heim wrote: Its my pleasure to introduce to you Alexis Ballier (also known as aballier), our latest addition joining to help out with the media-sound and media-video herd. Welcome Alexis. His skillset only includes the basic linux languages (that being beneath English, C and C++, but also BASH) and ocaml (wtf is ocaml? - thanks to Alec I know that now). Well perhaps he'd be interested in joining the ml team (dev-lang/ocaml is in the ml herd). Obviously it's not quite as glorious as Haskell, but at least it's functional. ;-) He's currently finishing his master degree in computer science (another one :P) and will be a PhD student next year. Yay, another one. I wonder how many gentoo devs have a PhD or are in the process of trying to get one... -- Duncan Coutts : Gentoo Developer (Haskell team lead) email : dcoutts at gentoo dot org -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
umm... I don't that was the point (that it can't work for everyone). However it would be nice if I didn't have to download a tarball. I see the point in why it's hard with distfiles but how hard would it be to add tarballs and limited distfiles. to a minimal cd) and make it universal and put it up for download? maybe and make a note in the handbook distfiles are not supported or some such. I really don't understand why this is so difficult? the tarballs wouldn't be changing from the ones that are on the mirrors. so what is the hangup? I doubt it's storage space and bandwidth. (btw I've built livecds using catalyst) On 10/9/06, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 19:11:47 -0400 Caleb Cushing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I would like to state my opinion on this... debate. the installer for | me... is inadequate it does not allow for nearly enough customization. Then don't use the installer. -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13 -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 27: Revisited (aka dynusers/creandus)
On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 13:46:03 -0400 Mike Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 08:09:08 -0400 Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You missed games-* (yes, all of them) via the games.eclass, but I'm sure there's a couple more eclasses that do user/group modification. Oops, I forgot to account for eclasses. I'll redo my script and run it again later to account for that. The script has been re-written and run again, results are posted[1]. The script itself is in my svn repo[2]. This most recent run gives a total of 992 ebuilds, from a total of 511 different packages all currently using enewuser or enewgroup. Not counting the games-* ebuilds (which all are using the same line from games.eclass), that's 657 ebuilds, from a total of 245 packages. The tree at the time of this run has 24854 ebuilds from 11578 packages. So, while that looks like a lot of affected packages at first glance, it's only about 4% of the tree. [1] http://dev.gentoo.org/~pioto/creandus/enewusergroup-pkgnames.txt [2] http://svn.pioto.org/viewvc/creandus/scripts/scantree-enewusergroup.bash -- Mike Kelly signature.asc Description: PGP signature
