Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? Hi there, I work on PCs for a living, mostly peoples' home computers, and in the case of a dead pc the cause is nearly as often something else as it is a dead PSU. Causes such as a duff CD-ROM drive or a damaged USB connector are surprising but not uncommon, so reset the BIOS (using the method described by Volker) and if that doesn't work unplug as much as possible from the motherboard - you'll surely need the CPU RAM for it to post, but you may wish to swap out the RAM at some point in your diagnostics - and unplug most everything else. That means drives, PCI cards, USB devices, stuff connected to the USB serial headers, graphics card if possible. Also don't connect the power supply to any of the drives, or anything else that you're not currently using. I've seen cheap power supplies take out the motherboard when they go. Sorry if you find that to be the case. I removed everything from the motherboard and even tried another CPU that used to run on that same motherboard. No luck. I can't test the power supply in my P3 router because the CPU power plug is different. I should have said before that every couple times I try to turn it on, the CPU fan spins about 2% of a full rotation and some of the LEDs along the back light up for a second. Would you guys say it is most likely the motherboard at this point? - Grant -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say this is an Emachines PC. Am I right? Not Emachine actually. I built it about 1.5 years ago with parts from the lowest bidder. - Grant Emachines, when the PSU goes bad, have a habit of taking out the motherboard, too. Hooking the old PSU up to a new motherboard fries the new one. I fried 2 motherboards (not Emachines supplied) back in my early days doing this (PSU wasn't Emachines, either). So, it can happen with other PSU/motherboards. If the motherboard has a status light and it isn't even coming on, then the motherboard is dead. Even bad CPUs I've damaged still allowed the motherboard, fans, etc. to power up (though nothing came up on the screen). Good info, thanks Mark. - Grant - Mark Shields -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
Grant wrote: A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? As strange as this may sound, we had a server go down and we thought psu/mb. it turned out to be the cmos battery. We replaced it (about four years ago), the server has been flawless since. -- Ted Ozolins (VE7TVO) Cranbrook, B.C. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? As strange as this may sound, we had a server go down and we thought psu/mb. it turned out to be the cmos battery. We replaced it (about four years ago), the server has been flawless since. Different motherboards must exhibit different behavior with a bad CMOS battery. Another desktop of mine prints an error to the POST screen about its bad battery. There is a comment here from another owner of my MSI motherboard: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/127597/show_product_reviews This is a great board too, except i got an error each boot-turns out the battery was dead, swapped it and it was ok It sounds like my motherboard should still boot with a bad battery. - Grant Ted Ozolins (VE7TVO) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
Grant wrote: A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? As strange as this may sound, we had a server go down and we thought psu/mb. it turned out to be the cmos battery. We replaced it (about four years ago), the server has been flawless since. Different motherboards must exhibit different behavior with a bad CMOS battery. Another desktop of mine prints an error to the POST screen about its bad battery. There is a comment here from another owner of my MSI motherboard: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/127597/show_product_reviews This is a great board too, except i got an error each boot-turns out the battery was dead, swapped it and it was ok It sounds like my motherboard should still boot with a bad battery. - Grant Ted Ozolins (VE7TVO) I had one with a dead battery too. It lost all the settings and the clock reset back to 1971 or something like that but otherwise it worked just fine. Well, after getting it to see the drives again. Weird things happen I guess. Dale :-) :-) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
You're absolutely right. The correct way of testing it for voltage is to plug a
power connector to a device such as a disk drive/Mobo and then to insert the
apparatus behind the connector while plugged.
-Original Message-
From: Stroller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:18 AM
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On 20 Mar 2008, at 19:42, Marzan, Richard non Unisys wrote:
Get a volt meter and measure the voltage. Red is 5+ volts yellow is
12+
volts; if you're getting less than that or way too much than those
values then the component needs to be replaced.
I believe that the PSU has to be under load for the voltage to test
correctly.
You can get testers for ATX PSUs for about £20, I noticed recently,
and a search suggests they're much cheaper on eBay (see items
190207549145, 280209639310)
Try also swapping the
memory modules out one by one; interchanging them and see if that
makes
it boot up. Some, not all, BIOS programs need some ram to boot the
machine.
Grant,
It's not clear from your other posts whether you've tried this. If
I'm testing a motherboard I _always_ want to have RAM in it - testing
without doesn't prove anything (to my satisfaction).
It could also be a broken power switch. If that is the case,
try to ground the pwr pin to a grnd(black) pin with a flat head screw
driver on the MB.
Forgot to mention this in my previous post - this is usually one of
the first things I try, because it's so easy to do.
Stroller.
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:29 PM, Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? Hi there, I work on PCs for a living, mostly peoples' home computers, and in the case of a dead pc the cause is nearly as often something else as it is a dead PSU. Causes such as a duff CD-ROM drive or a damaged USB connector are surprising but not uncommon, so reset the BIOS (using the method described by Volker) and if that doesn't work unplug as much as possible from the motherboard - you'll surely need the CPU RAM for it to post, but you may wish to swap out the RAM at some point in your diagnostics - and unplug most everything else. That means drives, PCI cards, USB devices, stuff connected to the USB serial headers, graphics card if possible. Also don't connect the power supply to any of the drives, or anything else that you're not currently using. I've seen cheap power supplies take out the motherboard when they go. Sorry if you find that to be the case. I removed everything from the motherboard and even tried another CPU that used to run on that same motherboard. No luck. I can't test the power supply in my P3 router because the CPU power plug is different. I should have said before that every couple times I try to turn it on, the CPU fan spins about 2% of a full rotation and some of the LEDs along the back light up for a second. Would you guys say it is most likely the motherboard at this point? - Grant -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say this is an Emachines PC. Am I right? Emachines, when the PSU goes bad, have a habit of taking out the motherboard, too. Hooking the old PSU up to a new motherboard fries the new one. I fried 2 motherboards (not Emachines supplied) back in my early days doing this (PSU wasn't Emachines, either). So, it can happen with other PSU/motherboards. If the motherboard has a status light and it isn't even coming on, then the motherboard is dead. Even bad CPUs I've damaged still allowed the motherboard, fans, etc. to power up (though nothing came up on the screen). -- - Mark Shields
RE: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
Get a volt meter and measure the voltage. Red is 5+ volts yellow is 12+
volts; if you're getting less than that or way too much than those
values then the component needs to be replaced. Try also swapping the
memory modules out one by one; interchanging them and see if that makes
it boot up. Some, not all, BIOS programs need some ram to boot the
machine. It could also be a broken power switch. If that is the case,
try to ground the pwr pin to a grnd(black) pin with a flat head screw
driver on the MB. Also, try removing all PCI cards from the machine.
After this, it becomes expensive and labouring; motherboard replacement
or CPU (ouch!).
-Original Message-
From: Grant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:42 AM
To: Gentoo mailing list
Subject: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was
the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the
problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs
replacement or if I have two dead power supplies?
- Grant
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On Thursday 20 March 2008, Marzan, Richard non Unisys wrote: Get a volt meter and measure the voltage. Red is 5+ volts yellow is 12+ volts; if you're getting less than that or way too much than those values then the component needs to be replaced. Switch mode power supplies seldom get that far. By the time the voltage regulation is so far gone as to show a difference on a voltmeter (even a Fluke), the box itself has long since given up even trying to run off that psu. The correct test and the only one that is valid, is to observe the dc output rails under load on an oscilloscope and look for high frequency ripple of the order 20kHz - 200kHz on the lines. If you can see it, and the trace is anything but a sharp thin line, the psu needs replacing/repairing. Considering the enormous effort it requires to get these modern jobs open so you can work on it, it's easier just to replace the entire thing. The voltmeter does give you one valid test - to see if there is any output AT ALL. Everything else it tells you is useless. A staggeringly high proportion of people who should know better will (wrongly) try to argue this point. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? Hi there, I work on PCs for a living, mostly peoples' home computers, and in the case of a dead pc the cause is nearly as often something else as it is a dead PSU. Causes such as a duff CD-ROM drive or a damaged USB connector are surprising but not uncommon, so reset the BIOS (using the method described by Volker) and if that doesn't work unplug as much as possible from the motherboard - you'll surely need the CPU RAM for it to post, but you may wish to swap out the RAM at some point in your diagnostics - and unplug most everything else. That means drives, PCI cards, USB devices, stuff connected to the USB serial headers, graphics card if possible. Also don't connect the power supply to any of the drives, or anything else that you're not currently using. I've seen cheap power supplies take out the motherboard when they go. Sorry if you find that to be the case. I removed everything from the motherboard and even tried another CPU that used to run on that same motherboard. No luck. I can't test the power supply in my P3 router because the CPU power plug is different. I should have said before that every couple times I try to turn it on, the CPU fan spins about 2% of a full rotation and some of the LEDs along the back light up for a second. Would you guys say it is most likely the motherboard at this point? - Grant -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On 20 Mar 2008, at 22:29, Grant wrote: ... I removed everything from the motherboard and even tried another CPU that used to run on that same motherboard. No luck. I can't test the power supply in my P3 router because the CPU power plug is different. I should have said before that every couple times I try to turn it on, the CPU fan spins about 2% of a full rotation and some of the LEDs along the back light up for a second. Would you guys say it is most likely the motherboard at this point? _Looks_ that way. I mean, you've certainly tried everything else, haven't you? I have to admit that I usually give up before this stage, as I rarely have a CPU which matches the motherboard (or if I do they're old PIIIs which have so little value I can just replace the whole lot). I charge my customers £38 an hour for fixing PCs - although obviously this doesn't take into account time travelling to jobs or running the business (making orders, doing the paperwork), I very quickly write off hardware problems as not worth my while. It looks like I can buy a dual-core Athlon and a cheapo motherboard (ok, I'd buy a nicer one, but let me make the point) for £55 (ok, admittedly +VAT), so I no longer enjoy spending hours messing around with recalcitrant hardware. Stroller. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On 20 Mar 2008, at 19:42, Marzan, Richard non Unisys wrote: Get a volt meter and measure the voltage. Red is 5+ volts yellow is 12+ volts; if you're getting less than that or way too much than those values then the component needs to be replaced. I believe that the PSU has to be under load for the voltage to test correctly. You can get testers for ATX PSUs for about £20, I noticed recently, and a search suggests they're much cheaper on eBay (see items 190207549145, 280209639310) Try also swapping the memory modules out one by one; interchanging them and see if that makes it boot up. Some, not all, BIOS programs need some ram to boot the machine. Grant, It's not clear from your other posts whether you've tried this. If I'm testing a motherboard I _always_ want to have RAM in it - testing without doesn't prove anything (to my satisfaction). It could also be a broken power switch. If that is the case, try to ground the pwr pin to a grnd(black) pin with a flat head screw driver on the MB. Forgot to mention this in my previous post - this is usually one of the first things I try, because it's so easy to do. Stroller. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On 3/19/08, Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? Have you tried to reset your BIOS? I would certainly try that before changing my MOBO. -- Ricardo Saffi Marques Laboratório de Administração e Segurança de Sistemas (LAS/IC) Universidade Estadual de Campinas (UNICAMP) Cell: +55 (19) 8128-0435 Skype: ricardo_saffi_marques Website: http://www.rsaffi.com
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? Have you tried to reset your BIOS? I would certainly try that before changing my MOBO. Do you mean battery out and back in? - Grant -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
3/19/08, Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you mean battery out and back in? Battery out, short-circuit it's contacts on the mobo while pressing the power button and then put it back and try to turn it on. But that is the raw way to do that, hahaha. The idea is for you to change the jumper located the closest to the battery, press power, change it back to it's original place and then power up again. Just a classic BIOS reset. Regards, Saffi -- Ricardo Saffi Marques Laboratório de Administração e Segurança de Sistemas (LAS/IC) Universidade Estadual de Campinas (UNICAMP) Cell: +55 (19) 8128-0435 Skype: ricardo_saffi_marques Website: http://www.rsaffi.com
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On 3/19/08, Ricardo Saffi Marques [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3/19/08, Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you mean battery out and back in? Or that. http://www.trap17.com/index.php/how-reset-bios-guide_t39291.html -- Ricardo Saffi Marques Laboratório de Administração e Segurança de Sistemas (LAS/IC) Universidade Estadual de Campinas (UNICAMP) Cell: +55 (19) 8128-0435 Skype: ricardo_saffi_marques Website: http://www.rsaffi.com
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 06:41:52 -0700, Grant wrote: A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? Try the power supplies in a different computer. -- Neil Bothwick Windows, the most installed system in the world, I know, I've done it 15 or 16 times myself. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On Mittwoch, 19. März 2008, Ricardo Saffi Marques wrote: 3/19/08, Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you mean battery out and back in? Battery out, short-circuit it's contacts on the mobo while pressing the power button and then put it back and try to turn it on. But that is the raw way to do that, hahaha. this is a very certain way to destroy the mobo. The idea is for you to change the jumper located the closest to the battery, press power, change it back to it's original place and then power up again. Just a classic BIOS reset. no. Don't press power. Don't even get close to power. Just set the jumper, wait some seconds, set it back to 'work state' and boot. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On Wednesday 19 March 2008 8:41:52 am Grant wrote: A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? - Grant Quite possibly your cpu and/or cooling fan. To test this...pull your current units out, hook-up a known good fan (without any cpu) and apply power. If the fan spins, you've isolated your problem. -jm -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On 3/19/08, Volker Armin Hemmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this is a very certain way to destroy the mobo. I don't know how this is in newer mobos, but I have certainly seen ppl doing that without any problem. no. Don't press power. Don't even get close to power. Just set the jumper, wait some seconds, set it back to 'work state' and boot. Well I'm not here to get into silly discussions. Even because I haven't done that in a while. If you say so, I strongly advice Grant to do as you say. Sorry for any bad info. Regards, Saffi -- Ricardo Saffi Marques Laboratório de Administração e Segurança de Sistemas (LAS/IC) Universidade Estadual de Campinas (UNICAMP) Cell: +55 (19) 8128-0435 Skype: ricardo_saffi_marques Website: http://www.rsaffi.com
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
every mobo manual I ever read (and I read a lot) said the same: set the jumper and don't turn on the box. Never turn on the box with the jumper set, or mainboard might be destroyed/rendered unbootable. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On 3/19/08, Volker Armin Hemmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: every mobo manual I ever read (and I read a lot) said the same: set the jumper and don't turn on the box. Never turn on the box with the jumper set, or mainboard might be destroyed/rendered unbootable. Nice. Thanks for the update. Sorry again. Regards, Saffi -- Ricardo Saffi Marques Laboratório de Administração e Segurança de Sistemas (LAS/IC) Universidade Estadual de Campinas (UNICAMP) Cell: +55 (19) 8128-0435 Skype: ricardo_saffi_marques Website: http://www.rsaffi.com
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
* Joe Menola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quite possibly your cpu and/or cooling fan. To test this...pull your current units out, hook-up a known good fan (without any cpu) and apply power. If the fan spins, you've isolated your problem. Depends on the board type. I've already seen boards which didn't even turn on the fan if there's no CPU present. cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
Am Mittwoch, 19. März 2008 14:41:52 schrieb Grant: A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? - Grant -- Hi A friend of mine had the same problem some time ago. I also tried a lot of stuff and changed almost all the hardware, except the cpu and mb. I didn't know what to do else, and then at last I changed the battery on the Mainboard, and everything worked fine again. Günter -- Luxus ist die teuerste Form von Primitivität. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On Wed, 2008-03-19 at 06:41 -0700, Grant wrote: A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? Well, it could be the cpu too. Or a PCI card - I've had them render computers useless until they're removed. In fact, I recommend removing everything (PCI cards, etc) but cpu, cpu fan, and one hd (disconnect the ide cable) and then try to turn it on again. Of course you also need to test the outlet - plug a light into it to make sure your outlet works! If it still doesn't work, you know it's either cpu, mb or ps. If it's an old style AT power supply with a hard on/off switch you can just plug in a couple of fans and turn it on. If you have one of those new ATX power supplies that young-uns seem to be using nowadays then its a bit more complicated! Firstly you need some load. If you're not sure about your mb, you can't use that. So you'll need at least a hard drive or two (I like using cdroms, cause there's nothing much to damage, however they spin down after a while) and probably a fan so you can see something spin. Unplug all connections to the mb (IDE cables, power supply, fans etc) so you've just got the load connected directly to the PS. Here comes the hard part: you need to find pins 14 and 15 and short them out! I recommend you unplug the PS from the wall (a switch is ideal), short the pins, turn on the switch, see what happens for a few seconds at most, then turn the switch back off. Try not to use the plug itself to turn the power on. This is RISKY! Make sure you get the right pins! I've used this test a number of times. Many thanks to http://www.duxcw.com/faq/ps/ps4.htm for the ideas. HTH, -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of trash. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
On 19 Mar 2008, at 13:41, Grant wrote: A Gentoo desktop of mine won't turn on anymore. I was hoping it was the power supply but I've installed a new one which doesn't fix the problem. Is there a sure way to know if the motherboard needs replacement or if I have two dead power supplies? Hi there, I work on PCs for a living, mostly peoples' home computers, and in the case of a dead pc the cause is nearly as often something else as it is a dead PSU. Causes such as a duff CD-ROM drive or a damaged USB connector are surprising but not uncommon, so reset the BIOS (using the method described by Volker) and if that doesn't work unplug as much as possible from the motherboard - you'll surely need the CPU RAM for it to post, but you may wish to swap out the RAM at some point in your diagnostics - and unplug most everything else. That means drives, PCI cards, USB devices, stuff connected to the USB serial headers, graphics card if possible. Also don't connect the power supply to any of the drives, or anything else that you're not currently using. I've seen cheap power supplies take out the motherboard when they go. Sorry if you find that to be the case. Stroller. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
