Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org wrote: Who wants to volunteer to prepare a list of bugs that are worth having a bounty put on them? I believe it can only work if the bugs are nominated by developers who are prepared to mentor whoever is doing it for the bounty. I can dredge through my stuff, but Mitch and Martin and pippin for gegl should really do the same for their own stuff. -- --Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 00:27 +0100, Martin Nordholts wrote: On 01/06/2011 11:01 PM, Sven Neumann wrote: I just wanted to let you know that we have seen a dramatic increase in donations since then. More than 120 people donated over the last 8 days and sent us about 2,500 dollars. Perhaps it would be a good idea to discuss how we can actually use this money to make the GIMP 2.8 release happen soon... Here are some examples of what I think blocks a GIMP 2.8 release: * Finish single-window mode * Make layer masks work with layer groups * Bug 596410 - gimp-image-get-filename returns NULL for imported files * Bug 597117 - impossible to drop a group as a sibling inside a group * Bug 612931 - Moving individual layer in layer group not possible with Move Tool * Bug 600554 - Implement layer group transforms * Bug 624303 - Introduce an item class in PyGIMP * Bug 630748 - display filters do not work * Bug 631766 - Bad performance when moving brush outline on canvas One natural use of money donated specifically to speed up a GIMP 2.8 release would be in the form of bounties for fixing bugs that blocks GIMP 2.8 from being released. I know we have a history of disliking bounties, but as far as I know we never really tried, and now we have money more or less ear-marked for this purpose. So far this has been the most constructive idea that has been brought up in this thread. So why not? Let's try to come up with a list of bugs that block the GIMP 2.8 release and put bounties on them. Who wants to volunteer to prepare a list of bugs that are worth having a bounty put on them? The stream of donations has dropped a little but there is still significantly more money coming in than usual. We have received more than $1,000 in the last 7 days. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org wrote:So far this has been the most constructive idea that has been brought up in this thread. So why not? Let's try to come up with a list of bugs that block the GIMP 2.8 release and put bounties on them. Who wants to volunteer to prepare a list of bugs that are worth having a bounty put on them? Sven Hi there. This has been effective for google and mozilla, sounds like it is worth a try. I've got one week before school starts, if the list appears soon, I'd be inclined to try to fix something. Peace, Mike ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
On 01/17/2011 11:32 PM, Mike Williams wrote: On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org mailto:s...@gimp.org wrote:So far this has been the most constructive idea that has been brought up in this thread. So why not? Let's try to come up with a list of bugs that block the GIMP 2.8 release and put bounties on them. Who wants to volunteer to prepare a list of bugs that are worth having a bounty put on them? Sven Hi there. This has been effective for google and mozilla, sounds like it is worth a try. I've got one week before school starts, if the list appears soon, I'd be inclined to try to fix something. Ideally CS professors would be lured into giving assignments around GIMP bug fixing... And this would introduce students to real-world programming. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
Hi everyone, You may know me as the student who coded the cage tool during this summer. I'd like to add something about these bounty. For me, the key point for the health of the community dev of Gimp is the current difficulty to be used to the codebase. I myself had a hard time to understand how things works in the code, and how to do things. The main cause of these difficulty is the lack of technical documentation. We sometimes need to read hundred lines of code just to know what an objet actually do. The code architecture is obscur for most of the dev, and if we loose the key dev, we will have hard time. If i haven't the pressure of the GSOC program, I probably abandoned. I once asked why we don't have these documentation. The answer i had is that writing documentation is boring, that's like that in free software, you just have to deal with. That's a vicious circle. The less we have docs, the less we have dev. And so, and so ... My idea is to use this money to reverse the trend. Lets give bounty for these docs. Here is some example of documentation I think is needed: - How to write a cool GObject for Gimp - How to write a cool Gegl op - A summary of what do core object if it's not already documented Just have a look on what Blender's dev do to present their work, and compare Blender and Gimp activity. http://code.blender.org/index.php/2011/01/a-look-at-point-cache/ I hope this message will go somewhere ... -- Michael Muré ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Michael Muré batolet...@gmail.com wrote: You may know me as the student who coded the cage tool during this summer. I'd like to add something about these bounty. For me, the key point for the health of the community dev of Gimp is the current difficulty to be used to the codebase. I myself had a hard time to understand how things works in the code, and how to do things. The main cause of these difficulty is the lack of technical documentation. We sometimes need to read hundred lines of code just to know what an objet actually do. The code architecture is obscur for most of the dev, and if we loose the key dev, we will have hard time. If i haven't the pressure of the GSOC program, I probably abandoned. I once asked why we don't have these documentation. The answer i had is that writing documentation is boring, that's like that in free software, you just have to deal with. That's a vicious circle. The less we have docs, the less we have dev. And so, and so ... snip My idea is to use this money to reverse the trend. Lets give bounty for these docs. Here is some example of documentation I think is needed: snip Code documentation is also one of the tasks that are not permitted for instance in the Google summer of code, perhaps we could come up with a set of bounties, or find someone motivated and fund them on a task by task basis or even part time for documenting? For a while, almost all the time I spent on GEGL (to the detriment of progress wrt features and performance) was spent on cleaning it up, and documenting it, website - references and more; this in case I decided to completely drop the ball or get consumed by other things, what I added was far from enough; and being the actual originator of much of the things in GEGL I am almost a bit cursed by knowledge and thus not the person best suited for it. Getting more documentation sure will be one of the best ways of making it easier to involve more people (and I am sorry for any bits of almost existing docs that aren't fully integrated yet.) /pippin -- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
On Monday, January 10, 2011 19:17:51 Øyvind Kolås wrote: Code documentation is also one of the tasks that are not permitted for instance in the Google summer of code, perhaps we could come up with a set of bounties, or find someone motivated and fund them on a task by task basis or even part time for documenting? I think this is a frightfully good idea too. One of those tasks could be writing the GIMP code Codex. Coding standards and best practices and so on. It could give us much easyer to merge forks for example. Its extremely annoying having to rewrite most of a great feature to make it fit for merge And yes, I do remember my starting days trying to make sense of the GIMP on the inside. Best, Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Alexia Death alexiade...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, January 10, 2011 19:17:51 Øyvind Kolås wrote: Code documentation is also one of the tasks that are not permitted for instance in the Google summer of code, perhaps we could come up with a set of bounties, or find someone motivated and fund them on a task by task basis or even part time for documenting? I think this is a frightfully good idea too. One of those tasks could be writing the GIMP code Codex. Coding standards and best practices and so on. It could give us much easyer to merge forks for example. Its extremely annoying having to rewrite most of a great feature to make it fit for merge And yes, I do remember my starting days trying to make sense of the GIMP on the inside. Note that many of the documents/the start of the documentation described or desired do already exist but might not be appropriately pointed to, and it has already been created and contributed to without monetary reward. Lets hope use of rewards wouldnt scare off people from contributing such work for free. /pippin ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
2011/1/10 Øyvind Kolås pip...@gimp.org Lets hope use of rewards wouldnt scare off people from contributing such work for free. It could be a one-time operation, with clearly defined goal and bounty. Just the time we need to have these needed documentation. -- Michael Muré ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 19:39 +0200, Alexia Death wrote: On Monday, January 10, 2011 19:17:51 Øyvind Kolås wrote: Code documentation is also one of the tasks that are not permitted for instance in the Google summer of code, perhaps we could come up with a set of bounties, or find someone motivated and fund them on a task by task basis or even part time for documenting? I think this is a frightfully good idea too. One of those tasks could be writing the GIMP code Codex. Coding standards and best practices and so on. It could give us much easyer to merge forks for example. Its extremely annoying having to rewrite most of a great feature to make it fit for merge And yes, I do remember my starting days trying to make sense of the GIMP on the inside. But who could write (and review) such docs? That would be the core developers and we really need the core developers to work on GIMP 2.8. Focusing on developer documentation is not going to make GIMP 2.8 happen earlier. On the contrary, it is likely to delay it further. Please try to come up with suggestions that focus on the 2.8 release. Thanks. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
Hi, I guess most of you noticed that several people blogged about the fact that GIMP 2.8 has not yet been released even though the schedule that Martin published a while ago estimated that this would have happened by the end of 2010. As far as I can see this is the article that started it all: http://libregraphicsworld.org/news.php?readmore=667 And this post suggested that donating to the GIMP project could help us to achieve our goal of releasing GIMP 2.8 earlier: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/single-window-gimp-release-delayed-but-why/ I just wanted to let you know that we have seen a dramatic increase in donations since then. More than 120 people donated over the last 8 days and sent us about 2,500 dollars. Perhaps it would be a good idea to discuss how we can actually use this money to make the GIMP 2.8 release happen soon... Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
On 01/06/2011 11:01 PM, Sven Neumann wrote: I just wanted to let you know that we have seen a dramatic increase in donations since then. More than 120 people donated over the last 8 days and sent us about 2,500 dollars. Perhaps it would be a good idea to discuss how we can actually use this money to make the GIMP 2.8 release happen soon... Here are some examples of what I think blocks a GIMP 2.8 release: * Finish single-window mode * Make layer masks work with layer groups * Bug 596410 - gimp-image-get-filename returns NULL for imported files * Bug 597117 - impossible to drop a group as a sibling inside a group * Bug 612931 - Moving individual layer in layer group not possible with Move Tool * Bug 600554 - Implement layer group transforms * Bug 624303 - Introduce an item class in PyGIMP * Bug 630748 - display filters do not work * Bug 631766 - Bad performance when moving brush outline on canvas One natural use of money donated specifically to speed up a GIMP 2.8 release would be in the form of bounties for fixing bugs that blocks GIMP 2.8 from being released. I know we have a history of disliking bounties, but as far as I know we never really tried, and now we have money more or less ear-marked for this purpose. We must not put bounties on things with vague scope like Finish single-window mode, that won't work. We can only put bounties on things where the work to be done is well-defined, like for * Bug 596410 - gimp-image-get-filename returns NULL for imported files If the work to be done in order to get the bounty is unclear, we *will* get into problems. I also think bounties shall only be claimable by people who would not do the work if there wasn't a bounty. For example, I won't and can't claim the bounty if I fix bug 596410, since I would have fixed it long ago if my spare time was infinite. One tricky question is what the size of the bounty should be for each bug... Let's discuss that if we can agree on that we want to try bounties at all. I think it is also worth to contemplate why we are in this situation where we want to make release, but can't because there's too much work left to do. The reason we are in this situation is because we develop features on the branch we make releases from. If things don't go as expected, like the case has been for single-window mode for example, we don't have any place to make releases from. The solution to this is of course to develop big features on feature branches. Basically, it should not be allowed to commit code to git master that is known to put the branch in an unreleasable state. We'll have good reasons to revisit this topic when we start working on GIMP 3.0... / Martin -- My GIMP Blog: http://www.chromecode.com/ Nightly GIMP, GEGL, babl tarball builds ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8
On 06.01.2011 23:01, Sven Neumann wrote: I just wanted to let you know that we have seen a dramatic increase in donations since then. More than 120 people donated over the last 8 days and sent us about 2,500 dollars. Perhaps it would be a good idea to discuss how we can actually use this money to make the GIMP 2.8 release happen soon... Alexia suggested that we get Peter a tablet. I think this is an excellent idea - first-hand experience with different input devices should help a lot when planning for GIMP user interaction, especially with any of the tools. I'd say we should aim for the same model Mitch got recently - an Intuos 4 plus an Art Pen. Regards, Michael -- GIMP http://www.gimp.org | IRC: irc://irc.gimp.org/gimp Plug-ins http://registry.gimp.org | .de: http://gimpforum.de ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
