Re: [Gimp-developer] Improved rect select tool
Sven wrote: Since I haven't got around to write up how I think the next-generation selection tools should work, it will probably be best if you commit your changes and we discuss them based on the code in CVS. Okay, it is there now, and the new tool will show up in the toolbox if you build cvs. (It has the same icon as the existing rect-select, but the tooltip will tell you which is which.) -- Bill __ __ __ __ Sent via the CNPRC Email system at primate.ucdavis.edu ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Improved rect select tool
Hi, William Skaggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have been working on a new rectangle-select tool to meet some of the deficiencies of the existing one, and would like to commit what I have to cvs if it is okay. Since I haven't got around to write up how I think the next-generation selection tools should work, it will probably be best if you commit your changes and we discuss them based on the code in CVS. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Improved rect select tool
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:10:18 +0100, Daniel Egger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 20.01.2005, at 22:07, Sven Neumann wrote: That sounds akward. Why would I have to convert a selection to a selection? This should be hidden from the user. A generic way to manipulate active selections would certainly be preferable so that arbitrary shaped selections can be moved and (re-)sized by any amount in either directon instead of just manipulated by boolean operations with new selections or grown/shrunk. Several proposals for the selection tools have already been discussed in 2002. I like the idea of being able to modify the current shape freely until it is confirmed in some way. This could be done for the rectangle and ellipse (and rounded rectangle if we ever add this) by having a generic way to adjust the bounding box of the selection. After the shape is applied/confirmed, it could be combined with others using the usual boolean operations. See this interesting bug report for more details: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91934 A similar discussion took place for the crop tool: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91846 This is also akward. The crop tool shouldn't have a dialog, nor should we add one to a possible new rectangle tool. The current rect-select tool shows how the tool-options can be used for this. However, as long as such a generic method does not exist, I'd rather have a well-known interface like the one of the crop tool instead of the current behaviour. The current selection tools are annoying enough to be barely of any use without rulers for anything larger than a 100x100 pixel icon with some heavy magnification. I agree with Sven here: we should get rid of all pop-up dialogs for the tools. If additional input such as dimensions or aspect ratio is required for a tool, then this should be part of the tool options instead of having a separate window which often gets in the way and can steal the input focus, etc. See also bug #85579. As always, everything is open to change, and nothing is written in stone, and all feedback is welcome. I will try to sit down later today and write up a completely different proposal since I don't like your's at all. I for one prefer Bills' approach much to what we have now; but lets see what you'll come up with. I also think that Bill's approach is interesting, but I would prefer a generic concept that can be applied to all selection tools and could also be used to improve the crop tool. I hope that Sven will come up with a good proposal. In the meantime I recommend that you have a look at bug #91934 (linked above), especially comment #5 from Simon. -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Improved rect select tool
Hi, William Skaggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have been working on a new rectangle-select tool to meet some of the deficiencies of the existing one, and would like to commit what I have to cvs if it is okay. Please don't commit this before we have finished this discussion (that we should have had before you wrote the first line of code). Here is an overview of what I have currently: The New Rect Select is implemented as a separate tool, which does not conflict with the existing rect-select tool and would not replace it until everybody is satisfied with it. The source code is based on the crop tool, and in many ways resembles it, although there are important differences. The crop tool code is the most broken piece of code in that directory. What we really need is not another Crop tool but an abstract rectangle tool that the crop tool, text tool and perhaps even the rect-select tool can be derived from. The tool options have two new entries, toggles for Adjustable and Show dialog. If Adjustable is checked, then the shape of the rectangle can be modified after it has been drawn, by moving the corners in the same way that works for the crop tool. Once it is satisfactory, clicking inside the rectangle converts it into a selection. Clicking outside the rectangle cancels the tool. If Adjustable is not checked, then the rectangle is converted to a selection as soon as the mouse button is released. (That is, it behaves like the existing rect-select.) That sounds akward. Why would I have to convert a selection to a selection? This should be hidden from the user. If Show dialog is checked, then a dialog closely resembling the crop tool dialog is shown whenever the tool is working, allowing values to be entered using the keyboard, and also containing buttons labeled From selection and Auto shrink. (The From selection button creates a rectangle to fit the bounds of the existing selection.) This is also akward. The crop tool shouldn't have a dialog, nor should we add one to a possible new rectangle tool. The current rect-select tool shows how the tool-options can be used for this. As always, everything is open to change, and nothing is written in stone, and all feedback is welcome. I will try to sit down later today and write up a completely different proposal since I don't like your's at all. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Improved rect select tool
Sven wrote: This is also akward. The crop tool shouldn't have a dialog, nor should we add one to a possible new rectangle tool. The current rect-select tool shows how the tool-options can be used for this. I'll defer responding to your other points until I see your proposal, but I would like to respond to this one. I think, on the contrary, that the tool options should be used for choices that are (at least potentially) persistent, and that input only relevant to the current application of a tool should be done using a dialog (*). The reason for this is that it is generally best to keep the tool options dialog fixed in size and location, but a pop-up dialog can be positioned and sized as needed. I don't actually share your negative attitude toward the crop tool. The only real problem with it is that the dialog gets in the way when it is not wanted, but that could easily be solved by adding a Show dialog option to the crop tool options. On the other hand, I find the current rect-select options pretty unpleasant to use. -- Bill (*) -- There are exceptions. It isn't worth creating a dialog for one or two buttons, for example the Path to Selection button in the Paths tool. __ __ __ __ Sent via the CNPRC Email system at primate.ucdavis.edu ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Improved rect select tool
On 20.01.2005, at 22:07, Sven Neumann wrote: Please don't commit this before we have finished this discussion (that we should have had before you wrote the first line of code). Typically a proof of concept implementation is more than welcome, so your attitude is hardly understandable. That sounds akward. Why would I have to convert a selection to a selection? This should be hidden from the user. A generic way to manipulate active selections would certainly be preferable so that arbitrary shaped selections can be moved and (re-)sized by any amount in either directon instead of just manipulated by boolean operations with new selections or grown/shrunk. This is also akward. The crop tool shouldn't have a dialog, nor should we add one to a possible new rectangle tool. The current rect-select tool shows how the tool-options can be used for this. However, as long as such a generic method does not exist, I'd rather have a well-known interface like the one of the crop tool instead of the current behaviour. The current selection tools are annoying enough to be barely of any use without rulers for anything larger than a 100x100 pixel icon with some heavy magnification. As always, everything is open to change, and nothing is written in stone, and all feedback is welcome. I will try to sit down later today and write up a completely different proposal since I don't like your's at all. I for one prefer Bills' approach much to what we have now; but lets see what you'll come up with. Servus, Daniel PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Gimp-developer] Improved rect select tool
Hi, Daniel Egger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I for one prefer Bills' approach much to what we have now; but lets see what you'll come up with. I didn't say it's worse than the current approach but it completely contradicts all the work that has gone into GIMP in order to pave the way for better selection tools. I don't want to see that work being wasted and since we are at the very beginning of a development cycle, we don't need to go for quick-and-dirty solutions. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Improved rect select tool
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, William Skaggs wrote: If Adjustable is checked, then the shape of the rectangle can be modified after it has been drawn, by moving the corners in the same way that works for the crop tool. Once it is satisfactory, clicking inside the rectangle converts it into a selection. Clicking outside the rectangle cancels the tool. Probably I have to try it to give a definite answer as to how usable this solution is, but reading about it it seems that it would be better if the rectangle would convert to a selection as soon as you click anywhere outside the controls of it, or if you use a modifier (ctrl-shift) with the click (even if you click on a control point), or if you change tools. That way all people get to (mostly) keep their current working habits and also use the new functionality if they need to. (btw, for keyboard navigation it seems logical to me to use the arrow keys for resizing and shift + arrow keys for movement) PS. I can't wait to try out your new tool :) ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
