Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Jernej Simončič]

On 10. oktober 2016, 11:28:11, Kevin Payne wrote:

>   As I don't have a high density display and was therefore not able
> to finish the themes properly, would you like to take ownership and complete 
> the job?

I never actually tried doing any styling, but looking at the GTK+
documentation, it appears that one of my complaints (spinbutton
thickness) apparently can't be fixed (and looking at a normal-density
screen, the arrows are very narrow there, too, at least with the
MS-Windows theme), while the checkboxes can be fixed by adding

  GtkCheckButton::indicator-size = 20
  GtkRadioButton::indicator-size = 20

The rest of the theme is fine as far as I can see (except I'd probably
comment out the font_name = "sans, 11" line, and let the MS-Windows
theme take care of this - at least on Windows; I've no idea if this is
needed on *nix).

-- 
< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ >

Nothing is ever accomplished by a reasonable man.
   -- Bucy's Law

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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Kevin Payne]

>From: gimp-developer-list <gimp-developer-list-boun...@gnome.org> on behalf of 
>Jernej Simončič ><jer...@ena.si>
>Sent: 27 September 2016 08:13
>To: Jeffrey Brent McBeth on [gimp-developer-list]
>Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

>I've got a 5k monitor on my Windows machine now, and after installing
>the Color-48 theme from
><https://bitbucket.org/paynekj/paynekj-gimp-scripts/src/2e8e87faf5eaaf6036e0d8b68ff9f6f37a3f0421/themes./?at=default>,
>GIMP is completely usable (maybe the theme could be shipped with GIMP
>to address this issue?). It's not perfect - the spinbuttons are very
>narrow, and checkboxes are small, but the rest of the elements work
>fine.

>< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ >

<https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list>Jernej,
  As I don't have a high density display and was therefore not able to finish 
the themes properly, would you like to take ownership and complete the job?

Kevin
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Jernej Simončič]

On Friday, September 23, 2016, 15:31:18, Jeffrey Brent McBeth wrote:

> GTK2 on a retina display sucks because it isn't handling the hight DPI 
> properly.
> When Inkscape/GIMP get ported to GTK3, his complaint hopefully disappears.

I've got a 5k monitor on my Windows machine now, and after installing
the Color-48 theme from
,
GIMP is completely usable (maybe the theme could be shipped with GIMP
to address this issue?). It's not perfect - the spinbuttons are very
narrow, and checkboxes are small, but the rest of the elements work
fine.

-- 
< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ >

The fact that you do not know the answer does not mean that someone else does.
   -- Stein's Maxim

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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi, C!

On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:45:58 +0100
C R  wrote:

> Hi Shlomi! Thanks for weighing in, and for sharing your motivations.
> Also thanks for your past contributions and I too hope you can once again
> find time to contribute to GIMP in the future.
> I found your articles quite informative, and I like your comment about the
> Tinfoil hat (What Linus said about SHA1 security was quite amusing).
> http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=linus-about-security-of-sha1
> 
> Hehehe.
> 

You're welcome.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

> Cheers.
> -C


-- 
-
Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Can-I-SCO-Now/ - “Can I SCO Now?”

It’s easier to port a shell than a shell script.
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Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Michael Schumacher]

On September 23, 2016 5:41:02 PM GMT+02:00, Marco Ciampa  
wrote:

>So the point is really "who cares about (some) OSX (users)"?

We care about supporting platforms if there are people whom we get contribution 
from - be it contributed code, high-quality bug reports and enhancement 
requests, effort to get binary packages built, ...

In a way, you could say we care about platforms if some of their users care 
enough about GIMP to help us care about them.

-- 
Regards, 
Michael 
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Stefan Peter]

On 23.09.2016 17:41, Marco Ciampa wrote:
> 
> So the point is really "who cares about (some) OSX (users)"?

You are kidding, aren't you?

When looking at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
linux does not even register as a desktop OS.

And no, I have never possessed a Mac, never will do so voluntarily and I
am not forced to do so ATM. I've been using Debian or Ubuntu for the
last 12 years exclusively at home an as much as I could in the office.

But I feel that it is wrong to ignore or even affront possible users in
a project that claims to be "open" and is considered by many one of the
shining examples of the free and open software movement.

With kind regards

Stefan Peter


-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
(See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style for details)
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[C R]

Hi Shlomi! Thanks for weighing in, and for sharing your motivations.
Also thanks for your past contributions and I too hope you can once again
find time to contribute to GIMP in the future.
I found your articles quite informative, and I like your comment about the
Tinfoil hat (What Linus said about SHA1 security was quite amusing).
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=linus-about-security-of-sha1

Hehehe.

Cheers.
-C

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Shlomi Fish  wrote:

> Hi C R!
>
> (or in the spirit of Talk Like a Pirate Day - "High Sea, arrr!".)
>
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:19:54 +0100
> C R  wrote:
>
> > I run a London Linux Meet, where a bunch of Linux and open source folks
> > have drinks and discuss Linux, and free software.
> >
> > At the last meet I was showing off GIMP, as I often do when asked "what
> do
> > you do?" There's the usual ooohing and ahhing as I show what GIMP allows
> me
> > to do easily as a designer.
> >
> > This time, I got a strange comment from a new visitor to our group. He
> said
> > "GIMP development? What's the point of that?" in a rather sarcastic tone.
> >
> > In such cases I have to push down my annoyance with the tone and answer
> the
> > question properly, because I know such comments usually come from one of
> > two places:
> >
> > a) User has tried GIMP, but didn't take time to learn enough to get past
> > things that aren't obvious.
> > b) User has heard that GIMP is hard to use, and is not an adequate tool
> for
> > professionals.
> >
> > Both of these point of views are skewed, but I find all it takes is a
> short
> > walk-through and sometimes question answering about how to do what they
> > want. Most people just want a show, though. Someone to prove to them that
> > their preconceptions of GIMP are incorrect, or at least incomplete.
> >
> > In this case, I opted to give the fireworks/show. My weapons of choice
> this
> > time included the unified transform tool, the handle-transform tool, and
> > the warp transform tool-
> > "Without development, we (designers/users) would not have these new
> > features, which will be released in the next version, and are available
> now
> > via the gimp-edge repo."
> >
> > I love the change in expression. You can SEE the change from the
> sceptical
> > arm-foldedness, to hands-on hips, or chin-scratching that indicated not
> > only a change in perspective, but also imagining the possibilities.
> >
> > "Without dedicated people constantly working to improve GIMP, we would
> not
> > have any of this, and nothing to look forward to. It's an incredible
> gift,
> > and allows us to work with complete freedom. It's there for the taking,
> for
> > the enjoyment of everyone. All one has to do is reach for it with
> patience
> > that is necessary for learning (any) complex and extremely powerful
> > graphics application."
> >
> > I just wanted to again say thanks, and relay that even on days where it
> > seems no one has anything good to say about GIMP, you've got fans who
> > genuinely appreciate the work you do, and believe in what GIMP is, and
> > enjoy what it will become in the future with your tremendous efforts.
> >
> > You're presently causing ooohs and ahhhs, in London. :)
> >
> > The question: "What's the point?" is a curious one.
> > As a developer in the project, what are your reasons for working on GIMP?
> > What are your motivations? What do you enjoy most about it?
> >
>
> Well, it's been a while since I've intensively worked on GIMP, but I'll
> give it
> a shot. First of all, I'd like to answer the question why I am a proponent
> of
> FOSS. I find a lot of open source software cool and useful and in addition
> I
> had a bad experience with a certain proprietary software app (BitKeeper)
> that
> ended up becoming unavailable to me, and as a result decided to try to
> avoid
> proprietary software in the future as much as possible. I've written about
> it
> here -
> https://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/261w6v/why_i_
> do_not_trust_nonfoss_and_why_you_shouldnt/ .
>
> Since I like and prefer FOSS, and am a capable software developer
> (including in
> programming) I like to spend my time to improve it or otherwise promote it,
> in order to make it better and more popular. I covered my motivation and
> mentality in this post -
> http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il/msg56378.html
> .
>
> Now naturally, I found some benefits in contributing to GIMP and other open
> source projects: enhancing my skills as a software dev, getting code
> review,
> acquiring some peer repute and recognition, enhancing existing code, having
> fun, interacting with fellow developers, etc.
>
> One fact that I feel had held GIMP back is the fact that the more core
> developers replied in a relatively rude and unfriendly manner to many
> people
> (and potential contributors) who asked questions or otherwise contacted us
> on
> the mailing lists. Someone pointed 

Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi C R!

(or in the spirit of Talk Like a Pirate Day - "High Sea, arrr!".)

On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:19:54 +0100
C R  wrote:

> I run a London Linux Meet, where a bunch of Linux and open source folks
> have drinks and discuss Linux, and free software.
> 
> At the last meet I was showing off GIMP, as I often do when asked "what do
> you do?" There's the usual ooohing and ahhing as I show what GIMP allows me
> to do easily as a designer.
> 
> This time, I got a strange comment from a new visitor to our group. He said
> "GIMP development? What's the point of that?" in a rather sarcastic tone.
> 
> In such cases I have to push down my annoyance with the tone and answer the
> question properly, because I know such comments usually come from one of
> two places:
> 
> a) User has tried GIMP, but didn't take time to learn enough to get past
> things that aren't obvious.
> b) User has heard that GIMP is hard to use, and is not an adequate tool for
> professionals.
> 
> Both of these point of views are skewed, but I find all it takes is a short
> walk-through and sometimes question answering about how to do what they
> want. Most people just want a show, though. Someone to prove to them that
> their preconceptions of GIMP are incorrect, or at least incomplete.
> 
> In this case, I opted to give the fireworks/show. My weapons of choice this
> time included the unified transform tool, the handle-transform tool, and
> the warp transform tool-
> "Without development, we (designers/users) would not have these new
> features, which will be released in the next version, and are available now
> via the gimp-edge repo."
> 
> I love the change in expression. You can SEE the change from the sceptical
> arm-foldedness, to hands-on hips, or chin-scratching that indicated not
> only a change in perspective, but also imagining the possibilities.
> 
> "Without dedicated people constantly working to improve GIMP, we would not
> have any of this, and nothing to look forward to. It's an incredible gift,
> and allows us to work with complete freedom. It's there for the taking, for
> the enjoyment of everyone. All one has to do is reach for it with patience
> that is necessary for learning (any) complex and extremely powerful
> graphics application."
> 
> I just wanted to again say thanks, and relay that even on days where it
> seems no one has anything good to say about GIMP, you've got fans who
> genuinely appreciate the work you do, and believe in what GIMP is, and
> enjoy what it will become in the future with your tremendous efforts.
> 
> You're presently causing ooohs and ahhhs, in London. :)
> 
> The question: "What's the point?" is a curious one.
> As a developer in the project, what are your reasons for working on GIMP?
> What are your motivations? What do you enjoy most about it?
> 

Well, it's been a while since I've intensively worked on GIMP, but I'll give it
a shot. First of all, I'd like to answer the question why I am a proponent of
FOSS. I find a lot of open source software cool and useful and in addition I
had a bad experience with a certain proprietary software app (BitKeeper) that
ended up becoming unavailable to me, and as a result decided to try to avoid
proprietary software in the future as much as possible. I've written about it
here -
https://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/261w6v/why_i_do_not_trust_nonfoss_and_why_you_shouldnt/
 .

Since I like and prefer FOSS, and am a capable software developer (including in
programming) I like to spend my time to improve it or otherwise promote it,
in order to make it better and more popular. I covered my motivation and
mentality in this post -
http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il/msg56378.html
.

Now naturally, I found some benefits in contributing to GIMP and other open
source projects: enhancing my skills as a software dev, getting code review,
acquiring some peer repute and recognition, enhancing existing code, having
fun, interacting with fellow developers, etc.

One fact that I feel had held GIMP back is the fact that the more core
developers replied in a relatively rude and unfriendly manner to many people
(and potential contributors) who asked questions or otherwise contacted us on
the mailing lists. Someone pointed that out to me in private and I
eventually made a public post pointing this out, but by then many potential
contributors were driven away. Since then it seems that the situation has
greatly improved.

Anyway, I contributed to GIMP because it's a useful open source project which I
find of utility, and am not aware of a superior FOSS alternative. I hope I can
dedicate some time in the future to contribute some more, and encourage other
software developers (not necessarily programmers) to contribute to it as well.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

> -C
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Marco Ciampa]

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 01:14:38PM +, Marius Kjeldahl wrote:
> While I am not a Gimp developer, I've been a keen user for many years. Same
> goes for Inkscape. After having to do some native work on iOS, I started
> working on Macs. In addition new laptop offerings kept making life as a
> linux user harder and harder. Touch screen, sexy new form factors, pens? At
> the same time, doing linuxy things on Macs became easier and easier, to the
> point that I know do most development on Macs, deploying on Linux where
> approriate.
> 
> I've waited years for Gimp and Inkscape to support Macs, but sadly they
> still don't. They barely "run", but they aren't usable. I wrote a blog post
> with the details:
> 
> https://medium.com/@kjeldahl/gimp-and-inkscape-on-retina-macs-do-not-work-9601c3052e86#.i3ys9rmhn
> 
> So to your question, what's the point?

Under Windows and Linux GIMP works almost flawlessly and that is more
than 80% of PC or more in the world.

And you can always use Linux in dual boot or in a virtual machine on a
mac and those both methods cure definitely all that MacOSX problem, 
meanwhile waiting for the GTK3 definitive solution of course...

So the point is really "who cares about (some) OSX (users)"?

Please add my MANY THANKS TO DEVS! to the list...

-- 


Marco Ciampa

I know a joke about UDP, but you might not get it.



 GNU/Linux User #78271
 FSFE fellow #364



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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[C R]

Yes, I always ask, because more often than not, it's just something small
that's got them stuck. This particular user had tried GIMP, and "found it
hard to use". I couldn't get any more clarification, as it was apparently
"several years ago" that they had tried to use GIMP and had "forgotten the
specifics". I give these folks the show to serve as motivation to try GIMP
again. He may return with questions, which I'm always more than happy to
answer.

 GIMP will never be as easy to use as Instagram. :)

Comments I've gotten from pro users that can be addressed directly by
interested developers:
1. Can't see what's being transformed because the guides get in the way. (I
tell them to turn guides to "none")
2. Can't see what's under what's being transformed because the
non-transformed layer stays under the transformation preview ( I tell them
to hide the layer that's being transformed, so they can see what they are
doing in relation to what's under it. Then un-hide the layer once the
transformation is complete)
3. Doesn't "handle CMYK" (I point them towards work-arounds like using
other applications to convert (no one I've talked to liked separate++ as a
solution to that one, unfortunately. :) )
4. The text layer doesn't stay as vector/editable text when you transform
it. (A known limitation of the current text tool implementation, I tell
them to try Inkscape or Scribus for text layout.)

My solutions to the above workflow bottlenecks:
1. Set the default for guides to "none". I've never found one situation
where they helped what I was doing, and they persistently get in the way
unless I turn them off.
2. Hide the layer that's being transformed while the transformation is in
progress, such that you can see the transformation preview in relation to
the rest of the image behind it.
3. Just toss in something that exports to a CMYK tiff using separate++. I
know this is not a cleam solution, but I doubt anyone would notice. Most
designers I've discussed this with are unaware of the difficulties, and are
happy to go with whatever the defaults are on Photoshop. It would be the
same for GIMP, I believe.
4. Text tool needs a lot of love, but that's not really news to anyone, I
think. :)

I would be happy to work directly with anyone who wants to tackle these, or
any other issues. :)

Thanks again for all the work!
-C

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Kevin Payne  wrote:

> >At the last meet I was showing off GIMP, as I often do when asked "what do
> >you do?" There's the usual ooohing and ahhing as I show what GIMP allows
> me
> >to do easily as a designer.
> >
> >This time, I got a strange comment from a new visitor to our group. He
> said
> >"GIMP development? What's the point of that?" in a rather sarcastic tone.
>
> 
>
> >The question: "What's the point?" is a curious one.
> >As a developer in the project, what are your reasons for working on GIMP?
> >What are your motivations? What do you enjoy most about it?
>
> You made some assumptions about what might have prompted such a question
> BUT did you actually ask them why they felt it necessary to ask? I'm sure
> it would be useful to know the basis for such an opinion,  which could then
> be addressed directly.
>
> Kevin
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Kevin Payne]

>At the last meet I was showing off GIMP, as I often do when asked "what do
>you do?" There's the usual ooohing and ahhing as I show what GIMP allows me
>to do easily as a designer.
>
>This time, I got a strange comment from a new visitor to our group. He said
>"GIMP development? What's the point of that?" in a rather sarcastic tone.



>The question: "What's the point?" is a curious one.
>As a developer in the project, what are your reasons for working on GIMP?
>What are your motivations? What do you enjoy most about it?

You made some assumptions about what might have prompted such a question BUT 
did you actually ask them why they felt it necessary to ask? I'm sure it would 
be useful to know the basis for such an opinion,  which could then be addressed 
directly.

Kevin
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Michael Schumacher]

On September 23, 2016 3:44:47 PM GMT+02:00, Marius Kjeldahl 
 wrote:

>AFAIK, on Inkscape things just looks a bit uglier. On Gimp, it's either
>lose half the pixels, OR view everything at 2x zoomed. No way to grab
>parts of a screen and view it next to the original on the same screen without
>losing half the pixels. That'a a pretty major issue IMHO.

Yeah, we got this reported as https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725263

Basically, it seems as if moving to GTK+ 3 is the only real way out; this is 
planned for the GIMP 3.0 release.

-- 
Regards,
Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[C R]

>
> Also, my apologies about hijacking. I thought you wanted to know why most
> people don't care about Gimp.
>

It's probably better to read an email/post carefully before responding.
That was not at all the question. :P

You could easily start a complaint email thread or a bug report for that
issue. It's not that I don't care about problems which (some) Mac users
have, it's that in this email thread, I care more about thanking developers
for their hard work, and getting to know about what motivates them. If
you're a developer, you could easily get involved with troubleshooting and
correcting any bugs you find. THEN you could possibly answer my question,
as a GIMP developer.

Just something to think about. :)

I will continue to post my positive experiences and successes with GIMP,
and  hope in the future they will not be seen as an invitation/excuse for
someone to complain.

-C


On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 15:57 C R  wrote:

> AFAIK, on Inkscape things just looks a bit uglier. On Gimp, it's either
>>> lose half the pixels, OR view everything at 2x zoomed.
>>
>>
>> So... zooming OUT is out of the question for some strange reason? :P
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>>>
>>
>> I lived through many mysteriously blurred images before I realized what
>>> was
>>> going on. On photos it may not be noticeable, but on screengrabs it
>>> certainly is.
>>>
>>
>> As a professional user, you use many screen-grabs in your work?
>> Not saying it's not an issue... but a "pretty major issue"... yea, no.
>> Doesn't sound like it to me.
>>
>> Also, it must be a Mac-only issue, because I've used GIMP on a 4K Dell
>> XPS 13 screen which annihilates the resolution on "retina" Macbooks, and it
>> was crisp as hell. No pixel doubling. Only issue is you had to zoom in a
>> lot because the pixels are so tiny. This was running Linux though. Maybe
>> we're just lucky? Inkscape had a worse time of the 4K screen because it has
>> to re-draw all the shapes. It was really slow, but DPI scaling cured it.
>> More pixels = more processor overhead. Ymmv.
>>
>> Thanks for hijacking my email thread to complain about your user issue,
>> btw.
>> -C
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Marius K.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 15:41 Michael Schumacher  wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On September 23, 2016 3:25:33 PM GMT+02:00, Marius Kjeldahl <
>>> > marius.kjeld...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > So the tl;dr is: there is no support for retina display (or other high
>>> dpi
>>> > displays).
>>> >
>>> > Or did I miss any other kissues in the post?
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Michael
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>>> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
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>>> >
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Marius Kjeldahl]

Sorry if you don't get the issue. It's not about simply zooming out.

Also, my apologies about hijacking. I thought you wanted to know why most
people don't care about Gimp. Many people who try do not realize why things
look bad in Gimp when they try it (compared to every other editor on Macs),
so even if you impress your abilities it may no reflect what others are
experiencing.

I'll shut up for now, just thought it was an important issue to understand.
Most people do not.

Thanks,

Marius K.

On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 15:57 C R  wrote:

> AFAIK, on Inkscape things just looks a bit uglier. On Gimp, it's either
>> lose half the pixels, OR view everything at 2x zoomed.
>
>
> So... zooming OUT is out of the question for some strange reason? :P
>
> (snip)
>
>>
>
> I lived through many mysteriously blurred images before I realized what was
>> going on. On photos it may not be noticeable, but on screengrabs it
>> certainly is.
>>
>
> As a professional user, you use many screen-grabs in your work?
> Not saying it's not an issue... but a "pretty major issue"... yea, no.
> Doesn't sound like it to me.
>
> Also, it must be a Mac-only issue, because I've used GIMP on a 4K Dell XPS
> 13 screen which annihilates the resolution on "retina" Macbooks, and it was
> crisp as hell. No pixel doubling. Only issue is you had to zoom in a lot
> because the pixels are so tiny. This was running Linux though. Maybe we're
> just lucky? Inkscape had a worse time of the 4K screen because it has to
> re-draw all the shapes. It was really slow, but DPI scaling cured it. More
> pixels = more processor overhead. Ymmv.
>
> Thanks for hijacking my email thread to complain about your user issue,
> btw.
> -C
>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Marius K.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 15:41 Michael Schumacher  wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On September 23, 2016 3:25:33 PM GMT+02:00, Marius Kjeldahl <
>> > marius.kjeld...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?
>> >
>> >
>> > So the tl;dr is: there is no support for retina display (or other high
>> dpi
>> > displays).
>> >
>> > Or did I miss any other kissues in the post?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Regards,
>> > Michael
>> > ___
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>> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Liam R. E. Quin]

On Fri, 2016-09-23 at 12:19 +0100, C R wrote:
> 
[...]
> I just wanted to again say thanks, and relay that even on days where
> it
> seems no one has anything good to say about GIMP, you've got fans who
> genuinely appreciate the work you do, and believe in what GIMP is,
> and
> enjoy what it will become in the future with your tremendous efforts.

It's good to hear feedback like this, even if (sadly) it generated a
negative thread... and even that had the message "I want to use GIMP
and can't" and not "I don't want to use GIMP" which overall seems
positive.

Liam [ankh]


-- 
Liam R. E. Quin 
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[C R]

>
> AFAIK, on Inkscape things just looks a bit uglier. On Gimp, it's either
> lose half the pixels, OR view everything at 2x zoomed.


So... zooming OUT is out of the question for some strange reason? :P

(snip)

>

I lived through many mysteriously blurred images before I realized what was
> going on. On photos it may not be noticeable, but on screengrabs it
> certainly is.
>

As a professional user, you use many screen-grabs in your work?
Not saying it's not an issue... but a "pretty major issue"... yea, no.
Doesn't sound like it to me.

Also, it must be a Mac-only issue, because I've used GIMP on a 4K Dell XPS
13 screen which annihilates the resolution on "retina" Macbooks, and it was
crisp as hell. No pixel doubling. Only issue is you had to zoom in a lot
because the pixels are so tiny. This was running Linux though. Maybe we're
just lucky? Inkscape had a worse time of the 4K screen because it has to
re-draw all the shapes. It was really slow, but DPI scaling cured it. More
pixels = more processor overhead. Ymmv.

Thanks for hijacking my email thread to complain about your user issue, btw.
-C


>
> Thanks,
>
> Marius K.
>
>
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 15:41 Michael Schumacher  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On September 23, 2016 3:25:33 PM GMT+02:00, Marius Kjeldahl <
> > marius.kjeld...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?
> >
> >
> > So the tl;dr is: there is no support for retina display (or other high
> dpi
> > displays).
> >
> > Or did I miss any other kissues in the post?
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Michael
> > ___
> > gimp-developer-list mailing list
> > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> > List membership:
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
> >
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Marius Kjeldahl wrote:
> inkscape.org states it's a professional editor for Mac OS X. Care to guess
> which Macs most professionals use?
>
> The same claim is made on gimp.org: "Gimp ... sophisticated tools to get the
> your job done."
>
> So if you want to be pedantic

Calling out for knowingly false statements is now considered pedantic?
yay, we are getting somewhere.

Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Marius Kjeldahl]

AFAIK, on Inkscape things just looks a bit uglier. On Gimp, it's either
lose half the pixels, OR view everything at 2x zoomed. No way to grab parts
of a screen and view it next to the original on the same screen without
losing half the pixels. That'a a pretty major issue IMHO. And to be honest,
I lived through many mysteriously blurred images before I realized what was
going on. On photos it may not be noticeable, but on screengrabs it
certainly is.

Thanks,

Marius K.


On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 15:41 Michael Schumacher  wrote:

>
>
> On September 23, 2016 3:25:33 PM GMT+02:00, Marius Kjeldahl <
> marius.kjeld...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?
>
>
> So the tl;dr is: there is no support for retina display (or other high dpi
> displays).
>
> Or did I miss any other kissues in the post?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Michael Schumacher]

On September 23, 2016 3:25:33 PM GMT+02:00, Marius Kjeldahl 
 wrote:

>Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?


So the tl;dr is: there is no support for retina display (or other high dpi 
displays).

Or did I miss any other kissues in the post?

-- 
Regards,
Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Jeffrey Brent McBeth]

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 09:24:50AM -0400, Partha Bagchi wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Marius Kjeldahl 
> wrote:
> 
> > ...
> > I've waited years for Gimp and Inkscape to support Macs, but sadly they
> > still don't. They barely "run", but they aren't usable. I wrote a blog post
> > with the details:
> >
> > https://medium.com/@kjeldahl/gimp-and-inkscape-on-retina-
> > macs-do-not-work-9601c3052e86#.i3ys9rmhn
> >
> > So to your question, what's the point?
> >
> 
> Can you tell me what's missing in the Mac GIMP support? I've been providing
> Mac (and WIndows) builds for a long time and continuing to so.

If you read his blog, he calls it out pretty explicitly (I read it because, 
I've been using inkscape heavily on Mac the last week or so).  

tl;dr
GTK2 on a retina display sucks because it isn't handling the hight DPI properly.
When Inkscape/GIMP get ported to GTK3, his complaint hopefully disappears.

Jeff

-- 
"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over 
 the man who cannot read them."
 -- Mark Twain
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Marius Kjeldahl]

inkscape.org states it's a professional editor for Mac OS X. Care to guess
which Macs most professionals use?

The same claim is made on gimp.org: "Gimp ... sophisticated tools to get
the your job done."

So if you want to be pedantic, sure, no claim is made about HIDPI support.
So I guess you are right. That doesn't help the rest of people who try out
gimp and inkscape and everything looks like shit.

Enjoy your victorious moment! ;-)

Thanks,

Marius K.

On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 15:31 Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Marius Kjeldahl wrote:
> > Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?
>
> The blog post, among other things, states this:
>
> "Gimp and Inkscape ... both claim to support retina/hidpi displays"
>
> I dare you link to pages on gimp.org and inkscape.org that support this
> claim.
>
> Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[C R]

Not to mention that GNU/Linux is NOT a Unix. ;P
At any rate, still curious to hear from real developers in the GIMP
project, and motivation for working on the project.

If I want to hear about why Mac enthusiasts don't like GIMP (or Inkscape),
I'll defo post the question to the GIMP user mailing list. :P

-C

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Marius Kjeldahl wrote:
> > Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?
>
> The blog post, among other things, states this:
>
> "Gimp and Inkscape ... both claim to support retina/hidpi displays"
>
> I dare you link to pages on gimp.org and inkscape.org that support this
> claim.
>
> Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Partha Bagchi]

I see. I haven't noticed any ill-effects of using my GIMP build on my
Macbook pros Mid 2014 (retina display). But that's me.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 9:26 AM, Maurizio Loreti 
wrote:

>
> > On 23 set 2016, at 15:24, Partha Bagchi  wrote:
> >
> > Can you tell me what's missing in the Mac GIMP support? I've been
> providing
> > Mac (and WIndows) builds for a long time and continuing to so.
>
> I think he is speaking about the lack of support for retina displays.
>
> --
> Maurizio Loreti   -   maurizio.lor...@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Marius Kjeldahl]

Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?

Thanks,

Marius K.


On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 15:24 Partha Bagchi  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Marius Kjeldahl <
> marius.kjeld...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ...
>
>
>> I've waited years for Gimp and Inkscape to support Macs, but sadly they
>> still don't. They barely "run", but they aren't usable. I wrote a blog
>> post
>> with the details:
>>
>>
>> https://medium.com/@kjeldahl/gimp-and-inkscape-on-retina-macs-do-not-work-9601c3052e86#.i3ys9rmhn
>>
>> So to your question, what's the point?
>>
>
> Can you tell me what's missing in the Mac GIMP support? I've been
> providing Mac (and WIndows) builds for a long time and continuing to so.
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Partha Bagchi]

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Marius Kjeldahl 
wrote:

> ...
> I've waited years for Gimp and Inkscape to support Macs, but sadly they
> still don't. They barely "run", but they aren't usable. I wrote a blog post
> with the details:
>
> https://medium.com/@kjeldahl/gimp-and-inkscape-on-retina-
> macs-do-not-work-9601c3052e86#.i3ys9rmhn
>
> So to your question, what's the point?
>

Can you tell me what's missing in the Mac GIMP support? I've been providing
Mac (and WIndows) builds for a long time and continuing to so.
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