Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:08 AM, maderios wrote: > On 08/10/2013 06:54 PM, John Meyer wrote: >> >> On 8/10/2013 10:50 AM, maderios wrote: >>> >>> On 08/09/2013 03:07 PM, s.kortenweg wrote: When i started 50 years ago in the early days of IT as prof was me told that there are 2 rules for program developers : first keep it simple and second the user must be happy with the results of your work. In the endless discussion of export vs. Save i believe that the second rule is violated. >>> >>> Hi >>> The Gimp developers approach is unfortunately very "closed". They do >>> not care about the users and they believe they have the truth But >>> a developer is mainly a developer, not a professional image editing. >>> You can compare with other software development, like new >>> Enlightenment (E17 and E18). >>> It's completely different. The developers and the main developer >>> (Rasterman) listen to users reviews and they use these criticisms to >>> improve the program. >>> http://www.enlightenment.org/ >>> >>> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=enlightenment-users >>> >>> Greetings >> >> >> >> if they're so good, go and use them, then. Or take a few classes on >> programming and fork the code, as I suggested earlier. >> Seriously, nothing's wrong with criticism of a feature you like or don't >> like as a user as long as: >> >> 1. You explain that as a user >> 2. You realize that you may be in the minority there. > > Hi > I use Enlightenment everyday, I try to help developers if I can, > modestly > Minority ? Thousands of posts on this list about the problem save export > Gimp-2.8, it does not matter of course The developers seem to live in a > sealed box, ignoring the image editing reality, ignoring the fact that the > new "save export" breaks the rhythm of work. > Regards > > -- > Maderios Thousands? In all the time I've followed this list I've seen maybe a dozen threads. I believe all of them have your replies in there. Trying to count the number of complainants, I estimate probably one or two dozen as well. Stop imagining your personal opinion to be somehow representative of the majority, its really quite annoying. Besides, open source development is not a democracy, so the majority-ness of any opinion is practically useless. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Mon, 2013-08-12 at 11:14 -0500, Joseph A. Nagy, Jr wrote: > [...] I just copy/paste and > scale as needed but I cannot work on anything else until I anchor it. Actually you can also click New layer in the layers dalogue to turn the floating selection into a layer, and then you can work on other things. > Very frustrating when I want to adjust something underneath to match it > while it is still a separate layer (and I would like to keep it a > separate layer, too). You can indeed. Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/10/2013 06:54 PM, John Meyer wrote: On 8/10/2013 10:50 AM, maderios wrote: On 08/09/2013 03:07 PM, s.kortenweg wrote: When i started 50 years ago in the early days of IT as prof was me told that there are 2 rules for program developers : first keep it simple and second the user must be happy with the results of your work. In the endless discussion of export vs. Save i believe that the second rule is violated. Hi The Gimp developers approach is unfortunately very "closed". They do not care about the users and they believe they have the truth But a developer is mainly a developer, not a professional image editing. You can compare with other software development, like new Enlightenment (E17 and E18). It's completely different. The developers and the main developer (Rasterman) listen to users reviews and they use these criticisms to improve the program. http://www.enlightenment.org/ http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=enlightenment-users Greetings if they're so good, go and use them, then. Or take a few classes on programming and fork the code, as I suggested earlier. Seriously, nothing's wrong with criticism of a feature you like or don't like as a user as long as: 1. You explain that as a user 2. You realize that you may be in the minority there. Hi I use Enlightenment everyday, I try to help developers if I can, modestly Minority ? Thousands of posts on this list about the problem save export Gimp-2.8, it does not matter of course The developers seem to live in a sealed box, ignoring the image editing reality, ignoring the fact that the new "save export" breaks the rhythm of work. Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:14:20 -0500 > From: jnagyjr1...@gmail.com > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > I had meant to send this on-list yesterday...didn't realize my error > until Richard replied off-list. > > Don't forget the 'floating selection' layer that prevents you from > editing any other layer in the image. Excessively frustrating when > you're looking to use one particular image in a variety of ways. That > plus the new save vs. export is very workflow breaking. Right. So if I may correct my previous response then . . . . the one change GIMP ever made which broke my personal workflow in the biggest, ugliest way possible was not 2.8's Save/Export. It was when GIMP 2.4 changed the default click-and-drag select behavior from "float and move selected region of pixels" to "move selection mask only". I was . . . not happy about that. -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/11/13 08:41, Richard Gitschlag wrote: On the contrary, this is the dangerous situation... - load file - create complicated selection/path to update part of the image - update that part - export image - quit (and throw the selection away...). IMHO the only safe case is when the image has one singe layer without mask, no channels, no paths, no selections. GIMP is the only application I know of where the selection mask is considered actual document content (rather than an interface entity used for manipulating document content). That was a very workflow-breaking issue to come to terms with, and actually much more so than Save vs. Export. I had meant to send this on-list yesterday...didn't realize my error until Richard replied off-list. Don't forget the 'floating selection' layer that prevents you from editing any other layer in the image. Excessively frustrating when you're looking to use one particular image in a variety of ways. That plus the new save vs. export is very workflow breaking. Reference Image: http://www.joseph-a-nagy-jr.us/images/other/01.bitsale.xcf The stylized 'B' is the one I'm talking about. I just copy/paste and scale as needed but I cannot work on anything else until I anchor it. Very frustrating when I want to adjust something underneath to match it while it is still a separate layer (and I would like to keep it a separate layer, too). -- Yours in Christ, Joseph A Nagy Jr "Whoever loves instruction loves knowledge, But he who hates correction is stupid." -- Proverbs 12:1 Emails are not formal business letters, whatever businesses may want. Original content CopyFree (F) under the OWL http://copyfree.org/licenses/owl/license.txt ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
* Jernej Simončič [08-12-13 12:02]: > On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:56:22 -0700, Richard Gitschlag wrote: > > > Speaking of Excel, Excel has really weird cut-and-paste behavior compared > > to every other app I know; the Cut command doesn't actually remove anything > > from the document or place it on the clipboard, it just marks it with > > marching ants (distinct from the normal click-and-drag selection) and only > > when you hit the Paste command does it actually cut/paste. A side effect > > is that you can only do one paste per cut (unlike with copy/paste). > > Everything clipboard-related is pretty broken in Excel. The copied content > is lost if you type something (but here's something funny: if you copy, > then paste, then type something, the copied content is lost; however, if > you then undo twice - undoing both the typing and the pasting, you can then > paste again). And there is a particular reason why we are *really* interested in *anything* to do with excel? It does help learning and using gimp? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:56:22 -0700, Richard Gitschlag wrote: > Speaking of Excel, Excel has really weird cut-and-paste behavior compared to > every other app I know; the Cut command doesn't actually remove anything from > the document or place it on the clipboard, it just marks it with marching > ants (distinct from the normal click-and-drag selection) and only when you > hit the Paste command does it actually cut/paste. A side effect is that you > can only do one paste per cut (unlike with copy/paste). Everything clipboard-related is pretty broken in Excel. The copied content is lost if you type something (but here's something funny: if you copy, then paste, then type something, the copied content is lost; however, if you then undo twice - undoing both the typing and the pasting, you can then paste again). -- < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ > ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > From: jernej|s-gm...@eternallybored.org > Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:38:04 +0200 > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > In Paint Shop Pro and Excel the selection is also saved with document. > Speaking of Excel, Excel has really weird cut-and-paste behavior compared to every other app I know; the Cut command doesn't actually remove anything from the document or place it on the clipboard, it just marks it with marching ants (distinct from the normal click-and-drag selection) and only when you hit the Paste command does it actually cut/paste. A side effect is that you can only do one paste per cut (unlike with copy/paste). -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
