Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Liz]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 05:58:30 +1000
David Cousens  wrote:

> While I agree with Liz's point with regard to different learning
> modalities, I still think it is a good practice to at least skim the
> available documentation and particularly read at least the Basics
> section of the Guide before diving in. 

If a person can read all those words and it does not help them
understand, they may understand with a different method.
There are some videos in English available. I can't tell whether they
are good or bad, does anyone have any favourites which would help
someone like Edwin?
I am imagining that a beginner video would talk through basic
concepts and then demonstrate how Gnucash handles those concepts. It
may follow through the Guide or Tutorial.
Suggestions welcome, then they could be linked from the wiki.

Liz
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Murugan Muruganandam]

A typical transaction will look like this

When you use your card to buy

Dr: Expenses: Clothes : $20  Cr: Liability: CreditCard: $20
Dr: Expenses: Cable: $100Cr: LIability: CreditCard:$100

When you get your statement and when you pay your credit card it will be

Dr: Liability: Credit Card: $120
Cr: Asset:Bank:CheckingAccount: $120


hope this helps


Saludos Cordiales


Murugan


From: gnucash-user 
 on behalf of 
Michael or Penny Novack 
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 5:37 PM
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject: Re: [GNC] I need basic help

Back when I paid it, I just made a payment out of my bank
checking account straight to the CC company. Now, how do I assign that
transaction? It’s not a CC expense but it is an expense of some
kind—just from a different place. My CC statement will go into my
Liability Account, right? So does my payment to the CC company come out
of Assets and into Liability? And, if so, how do I assign it on the CC
Account transaction line?
> Thanks All,
> Edwin

No, it is NOT an expense of any kind.  The expenses were when you used
your credit card to buy things or pay for services. Forget that nothing
left your pocket. You incurred a debt at THOSE moments. Not when you get
around to making a payment on your credit card bill.

When you do make a payment, you debit the CC balance by that amount and
credit the bank account the check was written against. It's not an
expense, even though money left your bank account but a transfer
(reduced your debt). In other words, the transaction had no effect on
your net worth*..

Michael D Novack

* This is another case where "history" might (or might not) make it
clearer. If we go back many centuries, there were no accounts of type
income of expense. The transactions (representing income of expense)
were immediately written against equity. In other words, they
immediately affected equity wile a transaction paying against a debt
would not affect equity.

But it was hard to report on total income or expenses for a time
period, had to search for those transactions. Many hundreds of years ago
somebody got the clever idea of having TEMPORARY accounts of type
"income" and "expense" --- they are fundamental type equity but until
closed into equity provided information about income and expense since
the last time they were closed. That closing process produced things
like the P&L report.

With software like gnucash, most of us never close the books as
gnucash can produce the reports "pretend we did" (as if closed at the
start of the time period and closed again at the end)


Michael D Novack

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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Michael or Penny Novack]

Back when I paid it, I just made a payment out of my bank 
checking account straight to the CC company. Now, how do I assign that 
transaction? It’s not a CC expense but it is an expense of some 
kind—just from a different place. My CC statement will go into my 
Liability Account, right? So does my payment to the CC company come out 
of Assets and into Liability? And, if so, how do I assign it on the CC 
Account transaction line?

Thanks All,
Edwin


No, it is NOT an expense of any kind.  The expenses were when you used 
your credit card to buy things or pay for services. Forget that nothing 
left your pocket. You incurred a debt at THOSE moments. Not when you get 
around to making a payment on your credit card bill.


When you do make a payment, you debit the CC balance by that amount and 
credit the bank account the check was written against. It's not an 
expense, even though money left your bank account but a transfer 
(reduced your debt). In other words, the transaction had no effect on 
your net worth*..


Michael D Novack

* This is another case where "history" might (or might not) make it 
clearer. If we go back many centuries, there were no accounts of type 
income of expense. The transactions (representing income of expense) 
were immediately written against equity. In other words, they 
immediately affected equity wile a transaction paying against a debt 
would not affect equity.


   But it was hard to report on total income or expenses for a time 
period, had to search for those transactions. Many hundreds of years ago 
somebody got the clever idea of having TEMPORARY accounts of type 
"income" and "expense" --- they are fundamental type equity but until 
closed into equity provided information about income and expense since 
the last time they were closed. That closing process produced things 
like the P&L report.


   With software like gnucash, most of us never close the books as 
gnucash can produce the reports "pretend we did" (as if closed at the 
start of the time period and closed again at the end)



Michael D Novack

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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[David Cousens]

While I agree with Liz's point with regard to different learning modalities, I
still think it is a good practice to at least skim the available documentation
and particularly read at least the Basics section of the Guide before diving
in. 

The underlying concepts to accounting and even the debit/credit nomenclature is
not all that difficult, just a few  rules and basic  arithmetic and having that
straight initially makes the rest a lot easier.

The main advantage of doing so is it gives you some vocabulary to use to ask
questions with. I must confess I generally don't with programs myself, however I
have both a programming background and in the case of GnuCash an accounting
background.

David Cousens

On Wed, 2023-10-25 at 08:35 +1100, Liz wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:12:57 -0700
> "Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)"  wrote:
> 
> > It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first reading
> > the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk.
> > Others have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their
> > messages.
> 
> People learn in different ways.
> So Edwin learns by doing and asking when reaching a difficulty.
> 
> 
> Liz
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[sunfish62--- via gnucash-user]

While the generic subject line of this thread could cover practically any 
subject (and seemingly has), I'd like to recommend that users get in the habit 
of creating new threads for new topics.

⁣David T. ​

On Oct 25, 2023, 8:23 PM, at 8:23 PM, Fred Tydeman  
wrote:
>At top left of screen, click on Accounts.
>Then under Account Name, click on Expenses
>Then click on New at top of screen.
>that will get you a popup to create a new account.
>
>On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 10:02 AM Edwin Booth via gnucash-user <
>gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>
>> How do I add a new Expense Account? I’d like to assign transactions
>in my
>> CC (liability) account to a few additional expense accounts. GnuCash
>said I
>> could “add more later” but I cannot seem to do it right. Do I have to
>> assign that account to some different top-level account?
>>
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Gyle McCollam]

In the credit card account, you reference the bank account in the transfer 
column and debit the credit card by the amount of the payment.  That debits the 
credit card and credits the bank account.  If you are in the bank account, you 
credit the bank balance and reference the cc in the transfer account.  If you 
use the reconciliation process, in the transfer window after you click finish, 
it will automatically show the cc account and you just have to select the bank 
or other account to credit.


Thank You,

Gyle McCollam

Gyle McCollam

gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com>   email


From: gnucash-user  on 
behalf of Edwin Booth via gnucash-user 
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 1:56 PM
To: Steve Butler 
Cc: GnuCash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] I need basic help

Okay. Figured out how to add a new expense account. I’m on a MacBook and am 
figuring that out as well.
I’ve been entering credit card transactions from my newly downloaded CC 
statement. Expenses are being assigned to various expense accounts. I’m now at 
a credit card payment line. Back when I paid it, I just made a payment out of 
my bank checking account straight to the CC company. Now, how do I assign that 
transaction? It’s not a CC expense but it is an expense of some kind—just from 
a different place. My CC statement will go into my Liability Account, right? So 
does my payment to the CC company come out of Assets and into Liability? And, 
if so, how do I assign it on the CC Account transaction line?
Thanks All,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 25, 2023, 12:01 PM, Edwin Booth  
wrote:

How do I add a new Expense Account? I’d like to assign transactions in my CC 
(liability) account to a few additional expense accounts. GnuCash said I could 
“add more later” but I cannot seem to do it right. Do I have to assign that 
account to some different top-level account?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 12:24 PM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user 
 wrote:

Thank you. I’ll try it that way.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 11:26 AM, Steve Butler  wrote:



On Wed, Oct 18, 2023, 23:04 Edwin Booth  wrote:

Steve,
Thanks for getting back to me!
It seems that I need to first delete my newly downloaded file from GnuCash and 
re-import it but first assign all the

Yes, remove those transitions or restore to a pre-import backup.
transactions to various accounts. I have
This is done during the import process just after you open the file.  You 
should see a list of the transactions that will be loaded.  Pick each one and 
be sure it has the correct destination account.  That's how the import process 
is taught.
 gone through the process (I think) of creating a hierarchy of accounts (though 
I will surely want to add more expense accounts later).

Okay, I have deleted the AMEX credit card OFX account that I imported into 
GnuCash and have gone back to my Mac Downloads file. How do I now assign all 
those transactions to their proper accounts without first importing this OFX 
file into GnuCash? Doesn’t it have to be in GnuCash before it can even know 
what accounts are available?
It’s late now, so I’ll wait for an answer to this first question before going 
on.
But for some reason I saw this email in my Yahoo mail app rather than in my 
Gmail app. Please respond to this by sending out my Gmail account. 
elybee...@gnail.com.
Thanks,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023, 2:05 PM, Stephen M. Butler  
wrote:

Edwin,

I routinely download my CC transactions using OFX.  I think you missed a
very important step.

It sounds like you did tie this OFX file to your CC Liability Account.
That will be remembered for all future imports from this CC.

It also sounds like you may not have set up all the various expense
accounts (Groceries, Fuel, Hardware, etc).  Those need to be setup as
accounts under the Expense top-level account.

Then, during the import process, after you pick the file but before
doing the actual import step you will see a list of all the
transactions.  During this first import none of them will show the
corresponding expense account.  You will need to click on each line and
indicate to which account that expense should be assigned.  In some
cases you will have a payment so up.  For the first time you will need
to assign this to your Asset/Checking account.

This process of assigning accounts to each transaction will teach the
import process how to automatically assign them in the future. As the
importer learns each transaction (based on the description), it will
begin to automatically assign the proper accounts. Occasionally you may
need to correct the account assignment or it may see a new description
and not know leaving it assigned to the Invalid Account.  This is your
clue to click on that line (perhaps double click) and make the
appropriate assignment.

Hop

Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Maf. King]

On Wednesday, 25 October 2023 18:56:11 BST Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
> Back when I paid it, I just made a payment out of my bank checking account
> straight to the CC company. Now, how do I assign that transaction? It’s not
> a CC expense but it is an expense of some kind—just from a different place.

Edwin.

Just assign it to the Bank Account in GC that you paid from in real life

I understand what you mean when you say it is an expense.  It is not, really, 
it is not. 

This is another concept you need to wrap your head around.  The expense 
happens when you buy the food (whatever) on the CCard.  You then have a 
liability to the CCard Co.  You clear that liability by transferring some of 
your asset (in the bank checking account) to cancel the liability.

Hope you follow me.
Maf.



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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth via gnucash-user]

Okay. Figured out how to add a new expense account. I’m on a MacBook and am 
figuring that out as well. 
I’ve been entering credit card transactions from my newly downloaded CC 
statement. Expenses are being assigned to various expense accounts. I’m now at 
a credit card payment line. Back when I paid it, I just made a payment out of 
my bank checking account straight to the CC company. Now, how do I assign that 
transaction? It’s not a CC expense but it is an expense of some kind—just from 
a different place. My CC statement will go into my Liability Account, right? So 
does my payment to the CC company come out of Assets and into Liability? And, 
if so, how do I assign it on the CC Account transaction line?
Thanks All,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 25, 2023, 12:01 PM, Edwin Booth  
wrote:

How do I add a new Expense Account? I’d like to assign transactions in my CC 
(liability) account to a few additional expense accounts. GnuCash said I could 
“add more later” but I cannot seem to do it right. Do I have to assign that 
account to some different top-level account?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 12:24 PM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user 
 wrote:

Thank you. I’ll try it that way. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 11:26 AM, Steve Butler  wrote:



On Wed, Oct 18, 2023, 23:04 Edwin Booth  wrote:

Steve,
Thanks for getting back to me!
It seems that I need to first delete my newly downloaded file from GnuCash and 
re-import it but first assign all the

Yes, remove those transitions or restore to a pre-import backup.
transactions to various accounts. I have
This is done during the import process just after you open the file.  You 
should see a list of the transactions that will be loaded.  Pick each one and 
be sure it has the correct destination account.  That's how the import process 
is taught.
 gone through the process (I think) of creating a hierarchy of accounts (though 
I will surely want to add more expense accounts later).

Okay, I have deleted the AMEX credit card OFX account that I imported into 
GnuCash and have gone back to my Mac Downloads file. How do I now assign all 
those transactions to their proper accounts without first importing this OFX 
file into GnuCash? Doesn’t it have to be in GnuCash before it can even know 
what accounts are available?
It’s late now, so I’ll wait for an answer to this first question before going 
on. 
But for some reason I saw this email in my Yahoo mail app rather than in my 
Gmail app. Please respond to this by sending out my Gmail account. 
elybee...@gnail.com. 
Thanks,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023, 2:05 PM, Stephen M. Butler  
wrote:

Edwin,

I routinely download my CC transactions using OFX.  I think you missed a 
very important step.

It sounds like you did tie this OFX file to your CC Liability Account.  
That will be remembered for all future imports from this CC.

It also sounds like you may not have set up all the various expense 
accounts (Groceries, Fuel, Hardware, etc).  Those need to be setup as 
accounts under the Expense top-level account.

Then, during the import process, after you pick the file but before 
doing the actual import step you will see a list of all the 
transactions.  During this first import none of them will show the 
corresponding expense account.  You will need to click on each line and 
indicate to which account that expense should be assigned.  In some 
cases you will have a payment so up.  For the first time you will need 
to assign this to your Asset/Checking account.

This process of assigning accounts to each transaction will teach the 
import process how to automatically assign them in the future. As the 
importer learns each transaction (based on the description), it will 
begin to automatically assign the proper accounts. Occasionally you may 
need to correct the account assignment or it may see a new description 
and not know leaving it assigned to the Invalid Account.  This is your 
clue to click on that line (perhaps double click) and make the 
appropriate assignment.

Hopefully this helps you on future imports.

--Steve

Stephen M Butler
stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com
kg...@arrl.net
253-350-0166
---
GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8

On 10/18/23 11:09, Edwin Booth wrote:
> Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have. I
> imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the Accounts
> Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line that
> says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand (I
> think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other account
> in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.
>
> So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all of
> that CC a

Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Fred Tydeman]

At top left of screen, click on Accounts.
Then under Account Name, click on Expenses
Then click on New at top of screen.
that will get you a popup to create a new account.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 10:02 AM Edwin Booth via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> How do I add a new Expense Account? I’d like to assign transactions in my
> CC (liability) account to a few additional expense accounts. GnuCash said I
> could “add more later” but I cannot seem to do it right. Do I have to
> assign that account to some different top-level account?
>
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth via gnucash-user]

How do I add a new Expense Account? I’d like to assign transactions in my CC 
(liability) account to a few additional expense accounts. GnuCash said I could 
“add more later” but I cannot seem to do it right. Do I have to assign that 
account to some different top-level account?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 12:24 PM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user 
 wrote:

Thank you. I’ll try it that way. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 11:26 AM, Steve Butler  wrote:



On Wed, Oct 18, 2023, 23:04 Edwin Booth  wrote:

Steve,
Thanks for getting back to me!
It seems that I need to first delete my newly downloaded file from GnuCash and 
re-import it but first assign all the

Yes, remove those transitions or restore to a pre-import backup.
transactions to various accounts. I have
This is done during the import process just after you open the file.  You 
should see a list of the transactions that will be loaded.  Pick each one and 
be sure it has the correct destination account.  That's how the import process 
is taught.
 gone through the process (I think) of creating a hierarchy of accounts (though 
I will surely want to add more expense accounts later).

Okay, I have deleted the AMEX credit card OFX account that I imported into 
GnuCash and have gone back to my Mac Downloads file. How do I now assign all 
those transactions to their proper accounts without first importing this OFX 
file into GnuCash? Doesn’t it have to be in GnuCash before it can even know 
what accounts are available?
It’s late now, so I’ll wait for an answer to this first question before going 
on. 
But for some reason I saw this email in my Yahoo mail app rather than in my 
Gmail app. Please respond to this by sending out my Gmail account. 
elybee...@gnail.com. 
Thanks,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023, 2:05 PM, Stephen M. Butler  
wrote:

Edwin,

I routinely download my CC transactions using OFX.  I think you missed a 
very important step.

It sounds like you did tie this OFX file to your CC Liability Account.  
That will be remembered for all future imports from this CC.

It also sounds like you may not have set up all the various expense 
accounts (Groceries, Fuel, Hardware, etc).  Those need to be setup as 
accounts under the Expense top-level account.

Then, during the import process, after you pick the file but before 
doing the actual import step you will see a list of all the 
transactions.  During this first import none of them will show the 
corresponding expense account.  You will need to click on each line and 
indicate to which account that expense should be assigned.  In some 
cases you will have a payment so up.  For the first time you will need 
to assign this to your Asset/Checking account.

This process of assigning accounts to each transaction will teach the 
import process how to automatically assign them in the future. As the 
importer learns each transaction (based on the description), it will 
begin to automatically assign the proper accounts. Occasionally you may 
need to correct the account assignment or it may see a new description 
and not know leaving it assigned to the Invalid Account.  This is your 
clue to click on that line (perhaps double click) and make the 
appropriate assignment.

Hopefully this helps you on future imports.

--Steve

Stephen M Butler
stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com
kg...@arrl.net
253-350-0166
---
GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8

On 10/18/23 11:09, Edwin Booth wrote:
> Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have. I
> imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the Accounts
> Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line that
> says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand (I
> think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other account
> in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.
>
> So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all of
> that CC account, but I have paid some of it. The unpaid portion would be
> under “Liability” I assume, and the paid part under “Expense.”
>
> Not sure what to do next. I’m running GnuCash on a MacBook Pro, which I’m
> also pretty new at.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Edwin
> ___
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Kalpesh Patel]

I reckon that is why this wonderful World accommodates more than 'One size fits 
all' ... hence also there are more than one school in the World! 

I mean I go and ask SME's when I am outside of my expertise. I hope nothing is 
wrong with it. Now on to figuring out which school to go 😊...

-Original Message-
From: G R Hewitt  
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 1:59 AM
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] I need basic help

Good point, which is probably why schools are the worst place to send your 
child, 'One size fits all'.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 at 22:39, Liz  wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:12:57 -0700
> "Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)"  wrote:
>
> > It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first 
> > reading the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk.
> > Others have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their 
> > messages.
>
> People learn in different ways.
> So Edwin learns by doing and asking when reaching a difficulty.
>
>
> Liz
> ___
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Christopher Lam]

As a non-accountant (although I pretend to be one sometimes) I can't figure
out Dr/Cr except that Dr=left,Cr=right.

But I do understand numbers (referring to dollars, or, a hot potato).

My 4 Rules:
1. Each transaction must total to zero (i.e. after a transaction is
complete, no hot potato burning my hand)
2. A positive balance in my bank account is reassuring (lots of hot
potatoes in my bank)
3. An income amount is usually negative, because it denotes the world.
(i.e. when I receive income, the world loses some potatoes).
4. No potatoes are created or destroyed

Example. I offer labour, I get paid in dollars
Income:Salary -$200
Asset:Bank +$200

I purchase from the shops
Asset:Bank -$50
Expenses:Groceries +$50

I invest some of my dollars, and borrow a lot of dollars to buy a house.
Asset:Bank -$100
Liability:Loan -$99,900
Asset:House +$100,000

etc.

Note within a transaction the total must always be zero. Incidentally
Gnucash stores amounts exactly like these potatoes above.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 at 01:37, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Edwin,
>
> Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.
>
>
>
> Maybe this will help...
>
> The Accounting Equation:
>
> Assets - Liabilities = Equity
>
> (let's make all terms 'positive')
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity
>
> (now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings
>
> (now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained Earnings)
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)
>
> (now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')
>
> Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income
>
>
> And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major
> account types that GnuCash uses.
>
> -
>
> In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:
>
> Debit = Credit
>
> Left = Right
>
>
> The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit
> balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on the
> left of the equation:
>
> Assets
> Expenses
>
> The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit
> balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those on
> the right of the equation:
>
> Liabilities
> Equity
> Income
>
> A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry error
> or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)
>
> -
> You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or between
> any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use the
> abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)
>
> Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown
> below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.
>
>
> Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)
>
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets decreased,
> Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)
>
> Dr. Assets:Cash
>Cr. Income:Salary
>
> result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets
> increased, Income increased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land outright)
>
> Dr. Assets:Land
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted -
> equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying groceries)
>
> Dr. Expenses:Food
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses
> increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying down
> a loan with a credit card)
>
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card
>
> result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities
> shifted - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability
> (recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)
>
> Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
>Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable
>
> result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to
> shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation remains
> in balance.
>
>
>
> *it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to
> Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some
> jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.
>
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 10/20/23 12:02 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
> > I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
>
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[G R Hewitt]

Good point, which is probably why schools are the worst place to send your
child, 'One size fits all'.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 at 22:39, Liz  wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:12:57 -0700
> "Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)"  wrote:
>
> > It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first reading
> > the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk.
> > Others have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their
> > messages.
>
> People learn in different ways.
> So Edwin learns by doing and asking when reaching a difficulty.
>
>
> Liz
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Mark at Lorimark]

two thumbs up!

On 10/24/23 16:35, Liz wrote:

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:12:57 -0700
"Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)"  wrote:


It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first reading
the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk.
Others have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their
messages.


People learn in different ways.
So Edwin learns by doing and asking when reaching a difficulty.


Liz
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Liz]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:12:57 -0700
"Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)"  wrote:

> It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first reading
> the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk.
> Others have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their
> messages.

People learn in different ways.
So Edwin learns by doing and asking when reaching a difficulty.


Liz
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edward Bainton]

If I can add my own beginner’s 2ç:

One breakthrough came for me when I realised  that the statement of
financial position is basically a catalogue of what would happen if you
were to die* right now.

All that’s owed to you (debits) gets given to others (credits).

Your net position is always zero: as they say, you can’t take any of it
with you.



*Or if your company were liquidated.


On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 at 19:21, Stan Brown (using GC 4.14) <
stan...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> On 2023-10-22 10:42, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> > I am also of the opinion that hiding or obfuscating terms and concepts
> > is not the solution.
>
> +1
>
> It usually makes things harder not easier, as this very thread has
> illustrated at great length.
>
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com/
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

That might be the section I was referencing in my reply to David C.

Maybe it just could use an edit? I'll look it over.

Regards,
Adrien

On 10/23/23 10:28 AM, sunfish62--- via gnucash-user wrote:

Doesn't Chapter 2.1 Accounting Concepts cover exactly this?


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[sunfish62--- via gnucash-user]

Doesn't Chapter 2.1 Accounting Concepts cover exactly this? 

⁣David T. ​

On Oct 22, 2023, 11:46 PM, at 11:46 PM, David Cousens 
 wrote:
>Adrien,
>
>This needs to make it into the Basics section of the Guide. I am
>planning to
>revise it when I get a break from grandchildren and other activities in
>line
>with some of flywire's comments re putting transaction explanation
>before the
>details of accounts. 
>
>David
>
>On Sun, 2023-10-22 at 12:36 -0500, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>> Edwin,
>> 
>> Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Maybe this will help...
>> 
>> The Accounting Equation:
>> 
>> Assets - Liabilities = Equity
>> 
>> (let's make all terms 'positive')
>> 
>> Assets = Liabilities + Equity
>> 
>> (now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)
>> 
>> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings
>> 
>> (now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained
>Earnings)
>> 
>> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)
>> 
>> (now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')
>> 
>> Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income
>> 
>> 
>> And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major 
>> account types that GnuCash uses.
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:
>> 
>> Debit = Credit
>> 
>> Left = Right
>> 
>> 
>> The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit 
>> balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on
>the 
>> left of the equation:
>> 
>> Assets
>> Expenses
>> 
>> The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit 
>> balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those
>on 
>> the right of the equation:
>> 
>> Liabilities
>> Equity
>> Income
>> 
>> A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry
>error 
>> or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)
>> 
>> -
>> You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or
>between 
>> any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use
>the 
>> abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)
>> 
>> Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown 
>> below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.
>> 
>> 
>> Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)
>> 
>> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>>    Cr. Assets:Cash
>> 
>> result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets
>decreased, 
>> Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)
>> 
>> Dr. Assets:Cash
>>    Cr. Income:Salary
>> 
>> result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets 
>> increased, Income increased - equation still in balance
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land
>outright)
>> 
>> Dr. Assets:Land
>>    Cr. Assets:Cash
>> 
>> result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted
>- 
>> equation still in balance
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying
>groceries)
>> 
>> Dr. Expenses:Food
>>    Cr. Assets:Cash
>> 
>> result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses 
>> increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying
>down 
>> a loan with a credit card)
>> 
>> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>>    Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card
>> 
>> result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities 
>> shifted - equation still in balance
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability 
>> (recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)
>> 
>> Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
>>    Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable
>> 
>> result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to 
>> shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation
>remains 
>> in balance.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to 
>> Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some 
>> jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>> 
>> On 10/20/23 12:02 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
>> > I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
>> 
>> ___
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>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

Hilarious!

Regards,
Adrien

On 10/23/23 3:41 AM, G R Hewitt wrote:

Thanks, Adrian, for that clear explanation, it has raised me out of the
Baldrick class nicely:

Blackadder : Right Baldrick, let's try again shall we? This is called
adding. If I have two beans, and then I add two more beans, what do I have?
Baldrick : Some beans.
Blackadder : Yes... and no. Let's try again shall we? I have two beans,
then I add two more beans. What does that make?
Baldrick : A very small casserole.
Blackadder : Baldrick, the ape creatures of the Indus have mastered this.
Now try again. One, two, three, four. So how many are there?
Baldrick : Three.
Blackadder : What?
Baldrick : ...and that one.
Blackadder : Three and that one. So if I add that one to the three what
will I have?
Baldrick : Oh. Some beans.
Blackadder : Yes. To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just something that
happened to other people, wasn't it?


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[G R Hewitt]

Thanks, Adrian, for that clear explanation, it has raised me out of the
Baldrick class nicely:

Blackadder : Right Baldrick, let's try again shall we? This is called
adding. If I have two beans, and then I add two more beans, what do I have?
Baldrick : Some beans.
Blackadder : Yes... and no. Let's try again shall we? I have two beans,
then I add two more beans. What does that make?
Baldrick : A very small casserole.
Blackadder : Baldrick, the ape creatures of the Indus have mastered this.
Now try again. One, two, three, four. So how many are there?
Baldrick : Three.
Blackadder : What?
Baldrick : ...and that one.
Blackadder : Three and that one. So if I add that one to the three what
will I have?
Baldrick : Oh. Some beans.
Blackadder : Yes. To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just something that
happened to other people, wasn't it?

On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 at 18:38, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Edwin,
>
> Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.
>
>
>
> Maybe this will help...
>
> The Accounting Equation:
>
> Assets - Liabilities = Equity
>
> (let's make all terms 'positive')
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity
>
> (now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings
>
> (now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained Earnings)
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)
>
> (now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')
>
> Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income
>
>
> And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major
> account types that GnuCash uses.
>
> -
>
> In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:
>
> Debit = Credit
>
> Left = Right
>
>
> The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit
> balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on the
> left of the equation:
>
> Assets
> Expenses
>
> The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit
> balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those on
> the right of the equation:
>
> Liabilities
> Equity
> Income
>
> A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry error
> or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)
>
> -
> You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or between
> any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use the
> abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)
>
> Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown
> below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.
>
>
> Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)
>
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets decreased,
> Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)
>
> Dr. Assets:Cash
>Cr. Income:Salary
>
> result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets
> increased, Income increased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land outright)
>
> Dr. Assets:Land
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted -
> equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying groceries)
>
> Dr. Expenses:Food
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses
> increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying down
> a loan with a credit card)
>
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card
>
> result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities
> shifted - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability
> (recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)
>
> Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
>Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable
>
> result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to
> shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation remains
> in balance.
>
>
>
> *it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to
> Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some
> jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.
>
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 10/20/23 12:02 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
> > I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
>
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

Cool, thanks!

(I attempted to setup a documentation build workflow long ago but put it 
on a back burner along with a pile of other things. I need to bring it 
to the front. In the meantime, thanks for considering this a worthy 
addition.)


There is already some discussion with nice graphics concerning the 
Accounting Equation. Perhaps that is the place to work this material in.


Regards,
Adrien

On 10/22/23 3:44 PM, David Cousens wrote:

Adrien,

This needs to make it into the Basics section of the Guide. I am planning to
revise it when I get a break from grandchildren and other activities in line
with some of flywire's comments re putting transaction explanation before the
details of accounts.

David

On Sun, 2023-10-22 at 12:36 -0500, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

Edwin,

Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.



Maybe this will help...

The Accounting Equation:

Assets - Liabilities = Equity

 (let's make all terms 'positive')

Assets = Liabilities + Equity

 (now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)

Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings

 (now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained Earnings)

Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)

 (now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')

Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income


And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major
account types that GnuCash uses.

-

In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:

Debit = Credit

Left = Right


The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit
balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on the
left of the equation:

Assets
Expenses

The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit
balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those on
the right of the equation:

Liabilities
Equity
Income

A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry error
or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)

-
You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or between
any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use the
abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)

Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown
below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.


Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)

Dr. Liabilities:Loan
    Cr. Assets:Cash

result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets decreased,
Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance



Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)

Dr. Assets:Cash
    Cr. Income:Salary

result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets
increased, Income increased - equation still in balance



Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land outright)

Dr. Assets:Land
    Cr. Assets:Cash

result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted -
equation still in balance



Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying groceries)

Dr. Expenses:Food
    Cr. Assets:Cash

result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses
increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance



Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying down
a loan with a credit card)

Dr. Liabilities:Loan
    Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card

result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities
shifted - equation still in balance



Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability
(recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)

Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
    Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable

result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to
shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation remains
in balance.



*it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to
Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some
jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.


Regards,
Adrien

On 10/20/23 12:02 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:

I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[David Cousens]

Adrien,

This needs to make it into the Basics section of the Guide. I am planning to
revise it when I get a break from grandchildren and other activities in line
with some of flywire's comments re putting transaction explanation before the
details of accounts. 

David

On Sun, 2023-10-22 at 12:36 -0500, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> Edwin,
> 
> Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this will help...
> 
> The Accounting Equation:
> 
> Assets - Liabilities = Equity
> 
> (let's make all terms 'positive')
> 
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity
> 
> (now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)
> 
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings
> 
> (now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained Earnings)
> 
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)
> 
> (now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')
> 
> Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income
> 
> 
> And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major 
> account types that GnuCash uses.
> 
> -
> 
> In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:
> 
> Debit = Credit
> 
> Left = Right
> 
> 
> The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit 
> balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on the 
> left of the equation:
> 
> Assets
> Expenses
> 
> The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit 
> balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those on 
> the right of the equation:
> 
> Liabilities
> Equity
> Income
> 
> A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry error 
> or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)
> 
> -
> You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or between 
> any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use the 
> abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)
> 
> Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown 
> below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.
> 
> 
> Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)
> 
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>    Cr. Assets:Cash
> 
> result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets decreased, 
> Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance
> 
> 
> 
> Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)
> 
> Dr. Assets:Cash
>    Cr. Income:Salary
> 
> result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets 
> increased, Income increased - equation still in balance
> 
> 
> 
> Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land outright)
> 
> Dr. Assets:Land
>    Cr. Assets:Cash
> 
> result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted - 
> equation still in balance
> 
> 
> 
> Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying groceries)
> 
> Dr. Expenses:Food
>    Cr. Assets:Cash
> 
> result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses 
> increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance
> 
> 
> 
> Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying down 
> a loan with a credit card)
> 
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>    Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card
> 
> result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities 
> shifted - equation still in balance
> 
> 
> 
> Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability 
> (recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)
> 
> Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
>    Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable
> 
> result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to 
> shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation remains 
> in balance.
> 
> 
> 
> *it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to 
> Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some 
> jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Adrien
> 
> On 10/20/23 12:02 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
> > I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
> 
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

On 2023-10-22 10:42, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> I am also of the opinion that hiding or obfuscating terms and concepts
> is not the solution.

+1

It usually makes things harder not easier, as this very thread has
illustrated at great length.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

I am also of the opinion that hiding or obfuscating terms and concepts 
is not the solution.


Education is.

Yeah, I got an A in Accounting 101, big whoop, but I've understood it by 
leaps and bounds decades later by using GnuCash with formal labels 
turned on. (and using the Transaction Journal View) And I've learned 
even more trying to explain it to others. (one learns a subject most by 
trying to teach it)


Regards,
Adrien

On 10/20/23 8:35 PM, David Cousens wrote:


I do agree with the comments in your previous post that the concept of
transactions needs to be explained before or at least in parallel to  concept of
accounts. I rewrote a fair bit of the basics section of the guide when I was
fresh out of an accounting master's which might account for its more technical
bias.  I haven't revisited the guide much since then but I will take another
look at it. It is always a compromise between producing a full scale textbook
and brevity that someone will actually read.

Some other accounting software does indeed hide the details of the debit/credit
and the accounting equation and double entry from users. I am a convert from
software that did that and because that basis was hidden it made understanding
the accounts more difficult than it should, particularly during the setup phase
of a business. Add to that my highly paid accountant (one of big 4) was not
particularly useful. That can be useful for a lot of routine data entry, however
it is the edge cases that often require a deeper understanding of the basis of
double entry accounting.

I disagree however that the non-accounting terminology should be the default.
The non-accounting terminology is often not precise in its meaning whereas once
you have understood the definitions, the meaning of the accounting terminology
and its use is well defined.  Accounting is a well documented commercial
practice and the double entry system is core to its operation and GnuCash is
primarily accounting software, not general financial software although it does a
very good job for small operations and can be adapted to that use.

It is also an excellent educational tool for formal accounting. I used it as
such while doing amaster's and it produced basic reports which conformed well
with what was expected for formal accounting reports.


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

By default, formal labels are not used. GnuCash already caters to this idea.

Regards,
Adrien

On 10/20/23 5:48 PM, flywire wrote:

https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-October/109184.html
Edwin Booth wrote:

I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.


No you don't but you do need to understand the concept of account types and
moving money between them. I've studied economics at Uni, evaluated endless
projects, used a range of accounting software, and worked with
accountants and bookkeepers without being aware of how credit and debit is
defined in accounting. I rarely used the terms, and most people that
understood them would realise the common understanding is wrong and use the
terms in a general sense or avoid them.

It's a pretty meaningless discussion commercial projects avoid to reduce
confusion. The user documentation would be clearer with simple language:
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-May/106929.html


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

Edwin,

Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.



Maybe this will help...

The Accounting Equation:

Assets - Liabilities = Equity

(let's make all terms 'positive')

Assets = Liabilities + Equity

(now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)

Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings

(now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained Earnings)

Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)

(now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')

Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income


And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major 
account types that GnuCash uses.


-

In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:

Debit = Credit

Left = Right


The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit 
balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on the 
left of the equation:


Assets
Expenses

The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit 
balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those on 
the right of the equation:


Liabilities
Equity
Income

A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry error 
or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)


-
You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or between 
any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use the 
abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)


Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown 
below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.



Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)

Dr. Liabilities:Loan
  Cr. Assets:Cash

result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets decreased, 
Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance




Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)

Dr. Assets:Cash
  Cr. Income:Salary

result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets 
increased, Income increased - equation still in balance




Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land outright)

Dr. Assets:Land
  Cr. Assets:Cash

result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted - 
equation still in balance




Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying groceries)

Dr. Expenses:Food
  Cr. Assets:Cash

result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses 
increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance




Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying down 
a loan with a credit card)


Dr. Liabilities:Loan
  Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card

result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities 
shifted - equation still in balance




Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability 
(recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)


Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
  Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable

result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to 
shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation remains 
in balance.




*it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to 
Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some 
jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.



Regards,
Adrien

On 10/20/23 12:02 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:

I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

On 10/21/23 11:38 AM, R Losey wrote:

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 11:57 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:


On 10/20/2023 11:47 AM, Edwin Booth wrote:

Thank you Michael. The ancient history of these terms is really
interesting. I don’t really “get it” yet but I see the idea here. Very
hard to set aside the use of credit and debit in the modern sense and
use them in a very different way. Counter intuitive.


Not exactly. The confusion over "modern sense" is something else. Thus
when R. Losey says:

"It*IS*  hard because the accounting use of debit/credit is different from
the common or colloquial usage of the words. In everyday usage, people tend
to use "debit" as a synonym for "decrease" and "credit" to mean "increase",
and that is NOT the case in accounting, as the tutorials helpfully
explain."

 No, the confusion is NOT because accounting use is different but
confusion over whose books are you looking at. We are sued to seeing
these "in reverse" on statements we from from the bank for our bank
accounts or credit card accounts because on those it is from THEIR point
of view, not ours.



I disagree; I've heard people in non-financial situations use "debit" to
mean "decrease" and "credit" for "increase"; such as "His recent actions
have credited his stock of goodwill "  or "he owes me; I have a huge credit
balance with him".


The key phrase is 'with him', which means 'in his books' thus from 'his' 
perspective your 'account' has a credit.


But in *your* books, that same account would have a debit.

It IS a matter of perspective. The terms have consistent meanings.


But this is starting to get away from GnuCash.


It is more accounting than 'how to do it in GnuCash' but we get this 
question often enough, it is worth addressing.


Regards,
Adrien

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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[James Thomas]

It may be because I have a lot of experience and training in accounting,
but it seems to me that using different terms depending on the account just
adds to the confusion. To me, using just "debit" and "credit" is a lot
easier - but one must understand three accounting basics:

1. that every account belongs in one of 5 different groups,
2. that, depending upon which "group" the account is in, it will normally
have either a debit or credit balance,.and
3. that the sum of debits minus credits in each transaction must equal zero
- without exception.

*Grouping*  *"normal balance"*

Assets  debit
Liabilities  credit
Income credit
Expense   debit
Equity   credit (but note that, if the business has been
incurring more expenses than revenue, the Equity balance will be abnormal -
a debit)

A "normal" posting to any account increases its "normal" balance. So an
increase to an asset account (checking, savings, investments, Accounts
Receivable, etc) would be a debit as would an increase to any expense
account.

However, any increase to a liability account's "normal"  balance (credit
card, loan) would be a credit as would any increase to an Income account.

This explains the confusion over whether credit means "increase" or
"decrease". *It means neither* in accounting terms. Whether a credit
increases or decreases an account depends on what type of account it is
(i.e. which "grouping" the account is in).

So, some ordinary entries for those of us just keeping track of home
finances would include:

  *debit
(dr)credit (cr)*

*paid for groceries w/credit (increases both balances):*

Visa card
50
groceries expense   50

*paid credit card from checking acct (decreases both balances)*

checking acct
  25
Visa card  25

*got my paycheck (increases both)*

checking acct  600
Income
 600


*Balances (all normal)*

Checking  575
Visa
 25
Income
600
Expense 50

Total *625*
  *625*

*Businesses "close books" at the end of the year (income and expenses are
set to zero by making "abnormal" entries in the amount of their year-end
balances). *
*Assets and liabilities are not "closed" but retain their balances.*

Income   600
Expense
50
Equity
550


Hope this helps - or at least doesn't add to the confusion :(


Jim Thomas

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:39 PM R Losey  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 11:57 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > On 10/20/2023 11:47 AM, Edwin Booth wrote:
> > > Thank you Michael. The ancient history of these terms is really
> > > interesting. I don’t really “get it” yet but I see the idea here. Very
> > > hard to set aside the use of credit and debit in the modern sense and
> > > use them in a very different way. Counter intuitive.
> >
> > Not exactly. The confusion over "modern sense" is something else. Thus
> > when R. Losey says:
> >
> > "It*IS*  hard because the accounting use of debit/credit is different
> from
> > the common or colloquial usage of the words. In everyday usage, people
> tend
> > to use "debit" as a synonym for "decrease" and "credit" to mean
> "increase",
> > and that is NOT the case in accounting, as the tutorials helpfully
> > explain."
> >
> >  No, the confusion is NOT because accounting use is different but
> > confusion over whose books are you looking at. We are sued to seeing
> > these "in reverse" on statements we from from the bank for our bank
> > accounts or credit card accounts because on those it is from THEIR point
> > of view, not ours.
> >
>
> I disagree; I've heard people in non-financial situations use "debit" to
> mean "decrease" and "credit" for "increase"; such as "His recent actions
> have credited his stock of goodwill "  or "he owes me; I have a huge credit
> balance with him".
>
> But this is starting to get away from GnuCash.
>
> _
> Richard Losey
> rlo...@gmail.com
> Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[R Losey]

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 11:57 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 10/20/2023 11:47 AM, Edwin Booth wrote:
> > Thank you Michael. The ancient history of these terms is really
> > interesting. I don’t really “get it” yet but I see the idea here. Very
> > hard to set aside the use of credit and debit in the modern sense and
> > use them in a very different way. Counter intuitive.
>
> Not exactly. The confusion over "modern sense" is something else. Thus
> when R. Losey says:
>
> "It*IS*  hard because the accounting use of debit/credit is different from
> the common or colloquial usage of the words. In everyday usage, people tend
> to use "debit" as a synonym for "decrease" and "credit" to mean "increase",
> and that is NOT the case in accounting, as the tutorials helpfully
> explain."
>
>  No, the confusion is NOT because accounting use is different but
> confusion over whose books are you looking at. We are sued to seeing
> these "in reverse" on statements we from from the bank for our bank
> accounts or credit card accounts because on those it is from THEIR point
> of view, not ours.
>

I disagree; I've heard people in non-financial situations use "debit" to
mean "decrease" and "credit" for "increase"; such as "His recent actions
have credited his stock of goodwill "  or "he owes me; I have a huge credit
balance with him".

But this is starting to get away from GnuCash.

_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[R Losey]

This is what I have done, and it's been helpful to me.

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:14 PM Fross, Michael  wrote:

> A help to me was to turn off 'Use Formal Accounting Labels" in the settings
> when I started (and have never enabled that.)  I feel it is much easier to
> understand for non-accounting people.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 12:53 PM Mark via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>
> > Oct 20, 2023 09:06:46 Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net
> > >:
> >
> > > That might not be of much help (understanding the terms "debit" and
> > "credit")
> > >
> > > History might, …
> >
> >
> > My point was that you don't *have* to learn all that before GnuCash will
> > be useful to you. The history *is* helpful to understand the terms fully,
> > but to start using GnuCash, you can start with learning how to enter
> where
> > the money comes from and where it goes, and learn more as you need it.
> > ___
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-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

On 2023-10-21 08:58, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
> Thanks again to all! But here’s a simple question that I need the answer to 
> so I may start entering expenses. I have set up an account hierarchy tree and 
> now I want to assign expense accounts to specific transactions that I made 
> with my credit cards. But I wish to add some accounts to the basic list. I 
> can’t figure out how to do that. 

It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first reading
the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk. Others
have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their messages.

I know there's a lot of documentation. But start with section "I. The
Basic Knowledge" in the Tutorial and Concepts Guide at


The answer to your question is in that chapter.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

On 2023-10-20 18:35, David Cousens wrote:
> I disagree however that the non-accounting terminology should be the default.
> The non-accounting terminology is often not precise in its meaning whereas 
> once
> you have understood the definitions, the meaning of the accounting terminology
> and its use is well defined.  Accounting is a well documented commercial
> practice and the double entry system is core to its operation and GnuCash is
> primarily accounting software, not general financial software although it 
> does a
> very good job for small operations and can be adapted to that use. 

Very well stated!  I agree wholeheartedly.


Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth via gnucash-user]

Thanks again to all! But here’s a simple question that I need the answer to so 
I may start entering expenses. I have set up an account hierarchy tree and now 
I want to assign expense accounts to specific transactions that I made with my 
credit cards. But I wish to add some accounts to the basic list. I can’t figure 
out how to do that. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 20, 2023, 8:35 PM, David Cousens  
wrote:


I do agree with the comments in your previous post that the concept of
transactions needs to be explained before or at least in parallel to  concept of
accounts. I rewrote a fair bit of the basics section of the guide when I was
fresh out of an accounting master's which might account for its more technical
bias.  I haven't revisited the guide much since then but I will take another
look at it. It is always a compromise between producing a full scale textbook
and brevity that someone will actually read.

Some other accounting software does indeed hide the details of the debit/credit
and the accounting equation and double entry from users. I am a convert from
software that did that and because that basis was hidden it made understanding
the accounts more difficult than it should, particularly during the setup phase
of a business. Add to that my highly paid accountant (one of big 4) was not
particularly useful. That can be useful for a lot of routine data entry, however
it is the edge cases that often require a deeper understanding of the basis of
double entry accounting.

I disagree however that the non-accounting terminology should be the default.
The non-accounting terminology is often not precise in its meaning whereas once
you have understood the definitions, the meaning of the accounting terminology
and its use is well defined.  Accounting is a well documented commercial
practice and the double entry system is core to its operation and GnuCash is
primarily accounting software, not general financial software although it does a
very good job for small operations and can be adapted to that use. 

It is also an excellent educational tool for formal accounting. I used it as
such while doing amaster's and it produced basic reports which conformed well
with what was expected for formal accounting reports.

David Cousens


On Sat, 2023-10-21 at 09:48 +1100, flywire wrote:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-October/109184.html
> Edwin Booth wrote:
> > I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
> 
> No you don't but you do need to understand the concept of account types and
> moving money between them. I've studied economics at Uni, evaluated endless
> projects, used a range of accounting software, and worked with
> accountants and bookkeepers without being aware of how credit and debit is
> defined in accounting. I rarely used the terms, and most people that
> understood them would realise the common understanding is wrong and use the
> terms in a general sense or avoid them.
> 
> It's a pretty meaningless discussion commercial projects avoid to reduce
> confusion. The user documentation would be clearer with simple language:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-May/106929.html
> 
> Regards
> 
> > 
> ___
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[David Cousens]

I do agree with the comments in your previous post that the concept of
transactions needs to be explained before or at least in parallel to  concept of
accounts. I rewrote a fair bit of the basics section of the guide when I was
fresh out of an accounting master's which might account for its more technical
bias.  I haven't revisited the guide much since then but I will take another
look at it. It is always a compromise between producing a full scale textbook
and brevity that someone will actually read.

Some other accounting software does indeed hide the details of the debit/credit
and the accounting equation and double entry from users. I am a convert from
software that did that and because that basis was hidden it made understanding
the accounts more difficult than it should, particularly during the setup phase
of a business. Add to that my highly paid accountant (one of big 4) was not
particularly useful. That can be useful for a lot of routine data entry, however
it is the edge cases that often require a deeper understanding of the basis of
double entry accounting.

I disagree however that the non-accounting terminology should be the default.
The non-accounting terminology is often not precise in its meaning whereas once
you have understood the definitions, the meaning of the accounting terminology
and its use is well defined.  Accounting is a well documented commercial
practice and the double entry system is core to its operation and GnuCash is
primarily accounting software, not general financial software although it does a
very good job for small operations and can be adapted to that use. 

It is also an excellent educational tool for formal accounting. I used it as
such while doing amaster's and it produced basic reports which conformed well
with what was expected for formal accounting reports.

David Cousens


On Sat, 2023-10-21 at 09:48 +1100, flywire wrote:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-October/109184.html
> Edwin Booth wrote:
> > I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
> 
> No you don't but you do need to understand the concept of account types and
> moving money between them. I've studied economics at Uni, evaluated endless
> projects, used a range of accounting software, and worked with
> accountants and bookkeepers without being aware of how credit and debit is
> defined in accounting. I rarely used the terms, and most people that
> understood them would realise the common understanding is wrong and use the
> terms in a general sense or avoid them.
> 
> It's a pretty meaningless discussion commercial projects avoid to reduce
> confusion. The user documentation would be clearer with simple language:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-May/106929.html
> 
> Regards
> 
> > 
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[flywire]

https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-October/109184.html
Edwin Booth wrote:
> I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.

No you don't but you do need to understand the concept of account types and
moving money between them. I've studied economics at Uni, evaluated endless
projects, used a range of accounting software, and worked with
accountants and bookkeepers without being aware of how credit and debit is
defined in accounting. I rarely used the terms, and most people that
understood them would realise the common understanding is wrong and use the
terms in a general sense or avoid them.

It's a pretty meaningless discussion commercial projects avoid to reduce
confusion. The user documentation would be clearer with simple language:
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-May/106929.html

Regards

>
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 10/20/2023 4:13 PM, Fross, Michael wrote:

A help to me was to turn off 'Use Formal Accounting Labels" in the settings
when I started (and have never enabled that.)  I feel it is much easier to
understand for non-accounting people.


Some of you will find the "user friendly" column  titles easier. Just 
have to realize that they will depend on the type of account and will at 
rare times be very confusing because for THIS transaction not making 
much sense.


Others will find "formal" easier because debit will always be the left 
column, credit the right column (used to be sides of the ledger page, 
but thank goodness that's obsolete) That will be the same no matter what 
kind of account.


Gnucash is of course showing THREE columns, that one farthest to the 
right being the running balance. That didn't exist in the old days 
either. These days we are comfortable dealing with negative numbers (a 
negative balance means balance in the opposite sense to what is normal 
for that type of account).


Michael D Novack



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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Fross, Michael]

A help to me was to turn off 'Use Formal Accounting Labels" in the settings
when I started (and have never enabled that.)  I feel it is much easier to
understand for non-accounting people.


On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 12:53 PM Mark via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> Oct 20, 2023 09:06:46 Michael or Penny Novack  >:
>
> > That might not be of much help (understanding the terms "debit" and
> "credit")
> >
> > History might, …
>
>
> My point was that you don't *have* to learn all that before GnuCash will
> be useful to you. The history *is* helpful to understand the terms fully,
> but to start using GnuCash, you can start with learning how to enter where
> the money comes from and where it goes, and learn more as you need it.
> ___
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Mark via gnucash-user]

Oct 20, 2023 09:06:46 Michael or Penny Novack :

> That might not be of much help (understanding the terms "debit" and "credit")
>
> History might, …


My point was that you don't *have* to learn all that before GnuCash will be 
useful to you. The history *is* helpful to understand the terms fully, but to 
start using GnuCash, you can start with learning how to enter where the money 
comes from and where it goes, and learn more as you need it.
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 10/20/2023 11:47 AM, Edwin Booth wrote:
Thank you Michael. The ancient history of these terms is really 
interesting. I don’t really “get it” yet but I see the idea here. Very 
hard to set aside the use of credit and debit in the modern sense and 
use them in a very different way. Counter intuitive.


Not exactly. The confusion over "modern sense" is something else. Thus 
when R. Losey says:


"It*IS*  hard because the accounting use of debit/credit is different from
the common or colloquial usage of the words. In everyday usage, people tend
to use "debit" as a synonym for "decrease" and "credit" to mean "increase",
and that is NOT the case in accounting, as the tutorials helpfully explain."

 No, the confusion is NOT because accounting use is different but 
confusion over whose books are you looking at. We are sued to seeing 
these "in reverse" on statements we from from the bank for our bank 
accounts or credit card accounts because on those it is from THEIR point 
of view, not ours.


If you owe me, that is an asset/debit in my books and a liability/credit 
in your books.


If you have money in a bank account that amount would be a debit from 
your point of view and a credit from the bank's point of view (they owe 
you the money, you are trusting them to give you that money when you 
want to take some out). It is going to be the same when a business sends 
you an invoice/statement. THAT is where the "in reverse" comes from. 
Everybody is using the same accounting rules. Nobody is using these 
terms in reverse. The point of view is what is in reverse.


Does that help?

Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth via gnucash-user]

Thank you Michael. The ancient history of these terms is really interesting. I 
don’t really “get it” yet but I see the idea here. Very hard to set aside the 
use of credit and debit in the modern sense and use them in a very different 
way. Counter intuitive. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 20, 2023, 9:05 AM, Michael or Penny Novack 
 wrote:

>> I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
> One thing that helps me keep it straight is that money flows from credit to 
> debit. Credit the account that money is coming from, debit the account that 
> money is going to. There is more to consider of course, like whether an 
> account usually has a credit or debit balance, but you don't have to learn 
> everything at once.

That might not be of much help (understanding the terms "debit" and 
"credit")

History might, remembering that double entry bookkeeping dates back to 
to times when:

a) European mathematics had not yet accepted negative numbers.

b) Latin was still used for communication between the educated (who 
might otherwise not be speaking the same language)

In other words, the "senses" of amounts in bookkeeping were "debit" and 
"credit", not "positive" and "negative". "Debit" comes from Latin 
"he/she/it owes (me)" and "credit from "he/she/it trusts (me)". Back at 
the start., there were no accounts of (temporary) type "income" and 
":expense", and the people using bookkeeping were moneylenders (bankers) 
who of course might also have other business. So .

Assets --- besides the obvious "cash" would be the loans given out, so 
natural that those amounts be "debit" (somebody owed you the money)

Liabilities -- these would be loans that the business had taken out, 
again natural that the sense be "credit" (somebody was trusting you for 
the money)

Equity --- this will be less obvious why "credit", except that is what 
will be necessary to balance the fundamental equality (the sum of the 
debits must equal the sum of the credits)

The big advance that the banking system of that day provided to trade 
was dealing in liabilities. Thus a merchant in place A planning to 
travel to place B to purchase a cargo of goods to ring back would go to 
the merchant/lenders of A and ask if any held a liability of a 
merchant/banker in place B. If yes, would purchase that debt (having it 
signed over) and could then travel to B carrying this "paper" rather 
than gold, etc. That piece of paper, requiring endorsements, much less 
subject to risks of piracy, etc. On arriving at B, would sell that 
liability for the local currency to make his purchases. In other words, 
these debts became a form of money.

That might help you understand why cash in hand was "debit" like the 
loans owed. Used the same way in trade. Large amounts being transferred 
would normally be in the form of these documents. Thus as long as trade 
between A and B was reasonably in balance, very little actual gold had 
to move back and forth.

Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Michael or Penny Novack]

I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.

One thing that helps me keep it straight is that money flows from credit to 
debit. Credit the account that money is coming from, debit the account that 
money is going to. There is more to consider of course, like whether an account 
usually has a credit or debit balance, but you don't have to learn everything 
at once.


That might not be of much help (understanding the terms "debit" and 
"credit")


History might, remembering that double entry bookkeeping dates back to 
to times when:


a) European mathematics had not yet accepted negative numbers.

b) Latin was still used for communication between the educated (who 
might otherwise not be speaking the same language)


In other words, the "senses" of amounts in bookkeeping were "debit" and 
"credit", not "positive" and "negative". "Debit" comes from Latin 
"he/she/it owes (me)" and "credit from "he/she/it trusts (me)". Back at 
the start., there were no accounts of (temporary) type "income" and 
":expense", and the people using bookkeeping were moneylenders (bankers) 
who of course might also have other business. So .


Assets --- besides the obvious "cash" would be the loans given out, so 
natural that those amounts be "debit" (somebody owed you the money)


Liabilities -- these would be loans that the business had taken out, 
again natural that the sense be "credit" (somebody was trusting you for 
the money)


Equity --- this will be less obvious why "credit", except that is what 
will be necessary to balance the fundamental equality (the sum of the 
debits must equal the sum of the credits)


The big advance that the banking system of that day provided to trade 
was dealing in liabilities. Thus a merchant in place A planning to 
travel to place B to purchase a cargo of goods to ring back would go to 
the merchant/lenders of A and ask if any held a liability of a 
merchant/banker in place B. If yes, would purchase that debt (having it 
signed over) and could then travel to B carrying this "paper" rather 
than gold, etc. That piece of paper, requiring endorsements, much less 
subject to risks of piracy, etc. On arriving at B, would sell that 
liability for the local currency to make his purchases. In other words, 
these debts became a form of money.


That might help you understand why cash in hand was "debit" like the 
loans owed. Used the same way in trade. Large amounts being transferred 
would normally be in the form of these documents. Thus as long as trade 
between A and B was reasonably in balance, very little actual gold had 
to move back and forth.


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[R Losey]

It *IS* hard because the accounting use of debit/credit is different from
the common or colloquial usage of the words. In everyday usage, people tend
to use "debit" as a synonym for "decrease" and "credit" to mean "increase",
and that is NOT the case in accounting, as the tutorials helpfully explain.

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 12:03 AM Edwin Booth via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> I am working my way through the tutorial. One of the things it says near
> the beginning is that one should set up a practice file. I need to wrap my
> head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
> Thanks for your help. Everyone’s comments and suggestions are quite
> helpful.
> Edwin
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 10:31 PM, David Cousens <
> davidcousen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> No doubt but reading is a good point from which to start practising.
> David
>
> On Fri, 2023-10-20 at 07:19 +1100, flywire wrote:
> >
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-October/109173.html
> > David Cousens wrote:
> > > I would suggest you read at least the introductory sections of the
> > GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts guide under the heading Basics
> > https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=5⟨=C&doc=guide
> >
> > I doubt many people can learn the accounting and software concepts by
> just
> > reading. New users  should actually run GnuCash and enter the tutorial
> > transactions from the guide into a file.
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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>
>
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-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Mark via gnucash-user]

Oct 20, 2023 00:03:40 Edwin Booth via gnucash-user :

> I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.

One thing that helps me keep it straight is that money flows from credit to 
debit. Credit the account that money is coming from, debit the account that 
money is going to. There is more to consider of course, like whether an account 
usually has a credit or debit balance, but you don't have to learn everything 
at once.
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth via gnucash-user]

I am working my way through the tutorial. One of the things it says near the 
beginning is that one should set up a practice file. I need to wrap my head 
around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
Thanks for your help. Everyone’s comments and suggestions are quite helpful. 
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 10:31 PM, David Cousens 
 wrote:

No doubt but reading is a good point from which to start practising.
David

On Fri, 2023-10-20 at 07:19 +1100, flywire wrote:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-October/109173.html
> David Cousens wrote:
> > I would suggest you read at least the introductory sections of the
> GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts guide under the heading Basics
> https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=5⟨=C&doc=guide
> 
> I doubt many people can learn the accounting and software concepts by just
> reading. New users  should actually run GnuCash and enter the tutorial
> transactions from the guide into a file.
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[David Cousens]

No doubt but reading is a good point from which to start practising.
David

On Fri, 2023-10-20 at 07:19 +1100, flywire wrote:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-October/109173.html
> David Cousens wrote:
> > I would suggest you read at least the introductory sections of the
> GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts guide under the heading Basics
> https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=5&lang=C&doc=guide
> 
> I doubt many people can learn the accounting and software concepts by just
> reading. New users  should actually run GnuCash and enter the tutorial
> transactions from the guide into a file.
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[G R Hewitt]

Accounting by numbers eh:)

On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 at 21:21, flywire  wrote:

> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-October/109173.html
> David Cousens wrote:
> > I would suggest you read at least the introductory sections of the
> GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts guide under the heading Basics
> https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=5&lang=C&doc=guide
>
> I doubt many people can learn the accounting and software concepts by just
> reading. New users  should actually run GnuCash and enter the tutorial
> transactions from the guide into a file.
> ___
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> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth via gnucash-user]

Thank you. I’ll try it that way. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 11:26 AM, Steve Butler  wrote:



On Wed, Oct 18, 2023, 23:04 Edwin Booth  wrote:

Steve,
Thanks for getting back to me!
It seems that I need to first delete my newly downloaded file from GnuCash and 
re-import it but first assign all the

Yes, remove those transitions or restore to a pre-import backup.
transactions to various accounts. I have
This is done during the import process just after you open the file.  You 
should see a list of the transactions that will be loaded.  Pick each one and 
be sure it has the correct destination account.  That's how the import process 
is taught.
 gone through the process (I think) of creating a hierarchy of accounts (though 
I will surely want to add more expense accounts later).

Okay, I have deleted the AMEX credit card OFX account that I imported into 
GnuCash and have gone back to my Mac Downloads file. How do I now assign all 
those transactions to their proper accounts without first importing this OFX 
file into GnuCash? Doesn’t it have to be in GnuCash before it can even know 
what accounts are available?
It’s late now, so I’ll wait for an answer to this first question before going 
on. 
But for some reason I saw this email in my Yahoo mail app rather than in my 
Gmail app. Please respond to this by sending out my Gmail account. 
elybee...@gnail.com. 
Thanks,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023, 2:05 PM, Stephen M. Butler  
wrote:

Edwin,

I routinely download my CC transactions using OFX.  I think you missed a 
very important step.

It sounds like you did tie this OFX file to your CC Liability Account.  
That will be remembered for all future imports from this CC.

It also sounds like you may not have set up all the various expense 
accounts (Groceries, Fuel, Hardware, etc).  Those need to be setup as 
accounts under the Expense top-level account.

Then, during the import process, after you pick the file but before 
doing the actual import step you will see a list of all the 
transactions.  During this first import none of them will show the 
corresponding expense account.  You will need to click on each line and 
indicate to which account that expense should be assigned.  In some 
cases you will have a payment so up.  For the first time you will need 
to assign this to your Asset/Checking account.

This process of assigning accounts to each transaction will teach the 
import process how to automatically assign them in the future. As the 
importer learns each transaction (based on the description), it will 
begin to automatically assign the proper accounts. Occasionally you may 
need to correct the account assignment or it may see a new description 
and not know leaving it assigned to the Invalid Account.  This is your 
clue to click on that line (perhaps double click) and make the 
appropriate assignment.

Hopefully this helps you on future imports.

--Steve

Stephen M Butler
stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com
kg...@arrl.net
253-350-0166
---
GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8

On 10/18/23 11:09, Edwin Booth wrote:
> Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have. I
> imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the Accounts
> Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line that
> says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand (I
> think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other account
> in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.
>
> So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all of
> that CC account, but I have paid some of it. The unpaid portion would be
> under “Liability” I assume, and the paid part under “Expense.”
>
> Not sure what to do next. I’m running GnuCash on a MacBook Pro, which I’m
> also pretty new at.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Edwin
> ___
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Steve Butler]

On Wed, Oct 18, 2023, 23:04 Edwin Booth  wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Thanks for getting back to me!
>
> It seems that I need to first delete my newly downloaded file from GnuCash
> and re-import it but first assign all the
>

Yes, remove those transitions or restore to a pre-import backup.

transactions to various accounts. I have

This is done during the import process just after you open the file.  You
should see a list of the transactions that will be loaded.  Pick each one
and be sure it has the correct destination account.  That's how the import
process is taught.

 gone through the process (I think) of creating a hierarchy of accounts
(though I will surely want to add more expense accounts later).

>
> Okay, I have deleted the AMEX credit card OFX account that I imported into
> GnuCash and have gone back to my Mac Downloads file. How do I now assign
> all those transactions to their proper accounts without first importing
> this OFX file into GnuCash? Doesn’t it have to be in GnuCash before it can
> even know what accounts are available?
>
> It’s late now, so I’ll wait for an answer to this first question before
> going on.
>
> But for some reason I saw this email in my Yahoo mail app rather than
> in my Gmail app. Please respond to this by sending out my Gmail account.
> elybee...@gnail.com.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Edwin
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2023, 2:05 PM, Stephen M. Butler 
> wrote:
>
> Edwin,
>
> I routinely download my CC transactions using OFX.  I think you missed a
> very important step.
>
> It sounds like you did tie this OFX file to your CC Liability Account.
> That will be remembered for all future imports from this CC.
>
> It also sounds like you may not have set up all the various expense
> accounts (Groceries, Fuel, Hardware, etc).  Those need to be setup as
> accounts under the Expense top-level account.
>
> Then, during the import process, after you pick the file but before
> doing the actual import step you will see a list of all the
> transactions.  During this first import none of them will show the
> corresponding expense account.  You will need to click on each line and
> indicate to which account that expense should be assigned.  In some
> cases you will have a payment so up.  For the first time you will need
> to assign this to your Asset/Checking account.
>
> This process of assigning accounts to each transaction will teach the
> import process how to automatically assign them in the future. As the
> importer learns each transaction (based on the description), it will
> begin to automatically assign the proper accounts. Occasionally you may
> need to correct the account assignment or it may see a new description
> and not know leaving it assigned to the Invalid Account.  This is your
> clue to click on that line (perhaps double click) and make the
> appropriate assignment.
>
> Hopefully this helps you on future imports.
>
> --Steve
>
> Stephen M Butler
> stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com
> kg...@arrl.net
> 253-350-0166
> ---
> GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8
>
> On 10/18/23 11:09, Edwin Booth wrote:
> > Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have.
> I
> > imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the
> Accounts
> > Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line
> that
> > says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand
> (I
> > think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other
> account
> > in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.
> >
> > So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all
> of
> > that CC account, but I have paid some of it. The unpaid portion would be
> > under “Liability” I assume, and the paid part under “Expense.”
> >
> > Not sure what to do next. I’m running GnuCash on a MacBook Pro, which I’m
> > also pretty new at.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Edwin
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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>
>
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Maf. King]

On Thursday, 19 October 2023 07:04:39 BST Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
> How do I now assign
> all those transactions to their proper accounts without first importing
> this OFX file into GnuCash? 

one step in the inport process is to assign the accounts.   GC "learns" and 
will offer suggestions, but to start with, you have to do that manually.  
Don't just click through the diallog boxes

> But for some reason I saw
> this email in my Yahoo mail app rather than in my Gmail app. Please respond
> to this by sending out my Gmail account. elybee...@gnail.com. Thanks,
> Edwin
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 

I think the replies have gone to Yahoo! because you sent the original mail 
from Yahoo! and Yahoo! has set this header (instruction for email software)

Reply-To: Edwin Booth 

I've only replied to the list, not to Edwin personally, although my email 
software was expecting to send to the Yahoo! address and I overrode that...

HTH,
Maf.




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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 10/19/2023 2:04 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:

Steve,
Thanks for getting back to me!
It seems that I need to first delete my newly downloaded file from GnuCash and 
re-import it but first assign all the transactions to various accounts. I have 
gone through the process (I think) of creating a hierarchy of accounts (though 
I will surely want to add more expense accounts later).
Okay, I have deleted the AMEX credit card OFX account that I imported into 
GnuCash and have gone back to my Mac Downloads file. How do I now assign all 
those transactions to their proper accounts without first importing this OFX 
file into GnuCash? Doesn’t it have to be in GnuCash before it can even know 
what accounts are available?


Edwin  trying to run before you can walk is a hard way to learn. You 
are trying to jump right in to the "fully automated" entry of credit 
card transactions without any understanding of the (otherwise) manual 
process you are automating. So for just a moment, forget about the 
download, and pretend you were entering these transactions one at a time 
AS THEY OCCURRED (rather than waiting till the statement).


On day 1, you use your credit card to pay for dinner out. You enter a 
transaction, debit expense "dining out" and credit "credit card". You 
paid for this expense by incurring a liability ON DAY 1 << when you pay 
on the bill from the credit card not relevant >> Now if at the time you 
did not yet have this expense account, you would have created it in 
order to enter the transaction.


On day 2, you use your credit card to pay for a tank full of gas. You 
enter a transaction to debit "vehicle fuel" and credit "credit card".


On day 3, you use your credit card to send a donation to to XYZ. You 
debit "charity donations" and "credit credit card". Understand? You WILL 
have all the expense accounts you need for these transactions because 
you would have created any new ones you needed as you went (and if a 
repeat, say you fill up your tank again on day 17, well "vehicle fuel 
exists because it did on day 2.


At the end of the month you get a credit card statement showing the 
total owed. You can pay that amount in full or some partial payment (at 
least the minimum) but that transaction is NOT an expense. You need to 
get your head around that, because it feels like "expense is when the 
money leaves my hand". No, you incurred those expense earlier. The 
transaction you enter now will be a debit to "credit card" and a credit 
to "checking account" for the amount of your payment.


THAT describes the "manual" process. IMHO, you should do it that way for 
at least one or two months before trying to do it by downloading. Why? 
Because then the majority of expense accounts needed will exist in 
advance of the download. The way you are doing it, almost none of the 
necessary expense accounts exist in advance.


Michael D Novack

Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth via gnucash-user]

Steve,
Thanks for getting back to me!
It seems that I need to first delete my newly downloaded file from GnuCash and 
re-import it but first assign all the transactions to various accounts. I have 
gone through the process (I think) of creating a hierarchy of accounts (though 
I will surely want to add more expense accounts later).
Okay, I have deleted the AMEX credit card OFX account that I imported into 
GnuCash and have gone back to my Mac Downloads file. How do I now assign all 
those transactions to their proper accounts without first importing this OFX 
file into GnuCash? Doesn’t it have to be in GnuCash before it can even know 
what accounts are available?
It’s late now, so I’ll wait for an answer to this first question before going 
on. 
But for some reason I saw this email in my Yahoo mail app rather than in my 
Gmail app. Please respond to this by sending out my Gmail account. 
elybee...@gnail.com. 
Thanks,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023, 2:05 PM, Stephen M. Butler  
wrote:

Edwin,

I routinely download my CC transactions using OFX.  I think you missed a 
very important step.

It sounds like you did tie this OFX file to your CC Liability Account.  
That will be remembered for all future imports from this CC.

It also sounds like you may not have set up all the various expense 
accounts (Groceries, Fuel, Hardware, etc).  Those need to be setup as 
accounts under the Expense top-level account.

Then, during the import process, after you pick the file but before 
doing the actual import step you will see a list of all the 
transactions.  During this first import none of them will show the 
corresponding expense account.  You will need to click on each line and 
indicate to which account that expense should be assigned.  In some 
cases you will have a payment so up.  For the first time you will need 
to assign this to your Asset/Checking account.

This process of assigning accounts to each transaction will teach the 
import process how to automatically assign them in the future. As the 
importer learns each transaction (based on the description), it will 
begin to automatically assign the proper accounts. Occasionally you may 
need to correct the account assignment or it may see a new description 
and not know leaving it assigned to the Invalid Account.  This is your 
clue to click on that line (perhaps double click) and make the 
appropriate assignment.

Hopefully this helps you on future imports.

--Steve

Stephen M Butler
stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com
kg...@arrl.net
253-350-0166
---
GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8

On 10/18/23 11:09, Edwin Booth wrote:
> Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have. I
> imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the Accounts
> Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line that
> says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand (I
> think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other account
> in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.
>
> So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all of
> that CC account, but I have paid some of it. The unpaid portion would be
> under “Liability” I assume, and the paid part under “Expense.”
>
> Not sure what to do next. I’m running GnuCash on a MacBook Pro, which I’m
> also pretty new at.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Edwin
> ___
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> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[David Cousens]

Edwin,

For specific help on importing and the process of matching accounts See
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v4/C/gnucash-help/trans-import.html

You can create new accounts while in the Import Matcher dialogue. The matcher
has to be trained by assigning accounts to transactions during the import
process but once it has imported a few batches it will automatically assign the
accounts using a Bayesian probabalistic matching process.

David Cousens

On Wed, 2023-10-18 at 23:23 -0500, Edwin Booth wrote:
> Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. 
> 
> I also got an email from Steve who explained that I needed to have all those
> expense accounts created prior to importing an OFX file. And I need to assign
> each of the transactions to one of these accounts after downloading it but
> before actually importing it into GnuCash. Not sure how that is supposed to
> happen since it seems like the downloaded file needs to be imported into
> GnuCash before it would recognize any attempt to assign a transaction to an
> account that was created in GnuCash. I’m going to try however. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Oct 18, 2023, at 1:57 PM, Alan Johnson  wrote:
> > 
> > You need to assign each CC transaction to an expense account. E.g.
> > McDonalds is "dining".
> > 
> > When you pay down your CC, you make a transfer from you checking (or
> > cash/etc) to the cc account.
> > 
> > The expense categories will allow you to run reports and see what you are
> > spending your money on.
> > 
> > Your checking / cash is an asset. Your CC is a liability (something that you
> > owe).
> > 
> > Go into the credit card account register and assign expense categories to
> > all transactions that are assigned to imbalance.
> > 
> > The imbalance account should be empty. If it's not, then something is not
> > assigned properly. 
> > 
> > Hope this helps.
> > 
> > Oct 18, 2023 14:21:34 Edwin Booth :
> > 
> > > Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have. I
> > > imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the Accounts
> > > Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line
> > > that
> > > says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand
> > > (I
> > > think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other account
> > > in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.
> > > 
> > > So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all of
> > > that CC account, but I have paid some of it. The unpaid portion would be
> > > under “Liability” I assume, and the paid part under “Expense.”
> > > 
> > > Not sure what to do next. I’m running GnuCash on a MacBook Pro, which I’m
> > > also pretty new at.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > Edwin
> > > ___
> > > gnucash-user mailing list
> > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth]

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. 

I also got an email from Steve who explained that I needed to have all those 
expense accounts created prior to importing an OFX file. And I need to assign 
each of the transactions to one of these accounts after downloading it but 
before actually importing it into GnuCash. Not sure how that is supposed to 
happen since it seems like the downloaded file needs to be imported into 
GnuCash before it would recognize any attempt to assign a transaction to an 
account that was created in GnuCash. I’m going to try however. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2023, at 1:57 PM, Alan Johnson  wrote:
> 
> You need to assign each CC transaction to an expense account. E.g. McDonalds 
> is "dining".
> 
> When you pay down your CC, you make a transfer from you checking (or 
> cash/etc) to the cc account.
> 
> The expense categories will allow you to run reports and see what you are 
> spending your money on.
> 
> Your checking / cash is an asset. Your CC is a liability (something that you 
> owe).
> 
> Go into the credit card account register and assign expense categories to all 
> transactions that are assigned to imbalance.
> 
> The imbalance account should be empty. If it's not, then something is not 
> assigned properly. 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Oct 18, 2023 14:21:34 Edwin Booth :
> 
>> Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have. I
>> imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the Accounts
>> Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line that
>> says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand (I
>> think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other account
>> in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.
>> 
>> So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all of
>> that CC account, but I have paid some of it. The unpaid portion would be
>> under “Liability” I assume, and the paid part under “Expense.”
>> 
>> Not sure what to do next. I’m running GnuCash on a MacBook Pro, which I’m
>> also pretty new at.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Edwin
>> ___
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[David Cousens]

Edwin,

I would suggest you read at least the introductory sections of the GnuCash 
Tutorial and Concepts guide under the heading Basics
https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=5&lang=C&doc=guide and/or the Help
Manual https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=5&lang=C&doc=help
 . This will give you a  good idea of how GnuCash operates and the basics of
double entry accounting.

David Cousens

On Wed, 2023-10-18 at 13:09 -0500, Edwin Booth wrote:
> Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have. I
> imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the Accounts
> Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line that
> says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand (I
> think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other account
> in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.
> 
> So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all of
> that CC account, but I have paid some of it. The unpaid portion would be
> under “Liability” I assume, and the paid part under “Expense.”
> 
> Not sure what to do next. I’m running GnuCash on a MacBook Pro, which I’m
> also pretty new at.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Edwin
> ___
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Stephen M. Butler]

Edwin,

I routinely download my CC transactions using OFX.  I think you missed a 
very important step.


It sounds like you did tie this OFX file to your CC Liability Account.  
That will be remembered for all future imports from this CC.


It also sounds like you may not have set up all the various expense 
accounts (Groceries, Fuel, Hardware, etc).  Those need to be setup as 
accounts under the Expense top-level account.


Then, during the import process, after you pick the file but before 
doing the actual import step you will see a list of all the 
transactions.  During this first import none of them will show the 
corresponding expense account.  You will need to click on each line and 
indicate to which account that expense should be assigned.  In some 
cases you will have a payment so up.  For the first time you will need 
to assign this to your Asset/Checking account.


This process of assigning accounts to each transaction will teach the 
import process how to automatically assign them in the future. As the 
importer learns each transaction (based on the description), it will 
begin to automatically assign the proper accounts. Occasionally you may 
need to correct the account assignment or it may see a new description 
and not know leaving it assigned to the Invalid Account.  This is your 
clue to click on that line (perhaps double click) and make the 
appropriate assignment.


Hopefully this helps you on future imports.

--Steve

Stephen M Butler
stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com
kg...@arrl.net
253-350-0166
---
GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8

On 10/18/23 11:09, Edwin Booth wrote:

Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have. I
imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the Accounts
Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line that
says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand (I
think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other account
in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.

So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all of
that CC account, but I have paid some of it. The unpaid portion would be
under “Liability” I assume, and the paid part under “Expense.”

Not sure what to do next. I’m running GnuCash on a MacBook Pro, which I’m
also pretty new at.

Thanks,

Edwin
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Alan Johnson via gnucash-user]

You need to assign each CC transaction to an expense account. E.g. McDonalds is 
"dining".

When you pay down your CC, you make a transfer from you checking (or cash/etc) 
to the cc account.

The expense categories will allow you to run reports and see what you are 
spending your money on.

Your checking / cash is an asset. Your CC is a liability (something that you 
owe).

Go into the credit card account register and assign expense categories to all 
transactions that are assigned to imbalance.

The imbalance account should be empty. If it's not, then something is not 
assigned properly. 

Hope this helps.

Oct 18, 2023 14:21:34 Edwin Booth :

> Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have. I
> imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the Accounts
> Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line that
> says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand (I
> think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other account
> in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.
> 
> So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all of
> that CC account, but I have paid some of it. The unpaid portion would be
> under “Liability” I assume, and the paid part under “Expense.”
> 
> Not sure what to do next. I’m running GnuCash on a MacBook Pro, which I’m
> also pretty new at.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Edwin
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