Re: [h-cost] 17th Century Glove Pictures?
Susan B. Farmer wrote: OK. thanks to the evil woman who pointed out the MFA in Boston site, I've been drooling there for *far* too long. Count Richelieu's gloves intrigue me. Are there examples of knitted gloves *before* 1600? There's a pair of red knitted silk and metal thread 15th-century pontifical gloves and one silk and metal knitted 13th-century archbishop's glove in Textile Conservation and Research by Mechtild Flury-Lemberg. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-cost period fastenings
In a message dated 2/8/06 2:41:30 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: F.ex. the petticoats - were they fastened simply with a ribbon or a button or what? Question - what do you actually mean by petticoat?? If you mean an underdress (aka chemise or shift), then they were loose enough not to need fastenings - the only class distinction would be in the quality of the fabric. (I asked the question because I've never known it to be called a petticoat during the earlier periods.) If you mean the waistcoat-like garment often used to hold up hosen, then points (individual ties, rather than one long lace). Hope that's of help, but more clarification would mean I could give more info. Debs ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: period fastenings
In a message dated 2/8/06 2:41:30 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: F.ex. the petticoats - were they fastened simply with a ribbon or a button or what? PS to what I just said - you did give some awfully wide apart dates - in that time the shape of the chemise wouldn't change all that much, but the waistcoat-like garment would only be worn really more towards the end of it, and then not always, as the doublet was often used to hold up the hosen. D ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] fine drawing?
I'm trying to translate instructions from _The Cut of Men's Clothes_ for the assembly of an 18th century coat. (page 88 of the recent hardcover edition) The backs are joined together by backstitching on the wrong side and then fine-drawing on the right, working from the skirt opening upwards. Backstitching I understand, but fine-drawing has me lost. I found two references online that seem to suggest it is a method for joining fabric by butting the edges together, but that doesn't work with a seam that's already backstitched... does it? Can anyone clarify this for me? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Simplicity's new natural form era gown, opinions?
I was just browsing Simplicity's website (I got a free pattern for submitting a sewing tip to their 'idea exchange') and I found that they have a new historic costume pattern, http://www.simplicity.com/dv1_v4.cfm?design=4244 it looks like a bustle or natural form period gown, they may be trying to cash in on The Phantom of the Opera (though it seems a bit late) as their model does look quite a bit like Emmy Rossum (who played the main character, Christine) although they do already have a version of the costume she wears when she does her solo on stage for the rest of the film she wears typical late 1870s to early 1880s outfits. Anyway, onto my point does anybody have an opinion on how authentic this is and whether any inauthentic parts would be fixable? The bodice doesn't look too bad it's got 2 darts at the front and princess seams at the back, it reminds me of a polonaise except for the back drape. It would need fitting to be worn over a corset but otherwise I can't seem to pinpoint a flaw (I admit I don't like the look of the back of the skirt but I don't know if that's because it's inauthentic or I just dislike the style). Then again I've only done a little research into this era, so for those who have more expertise in natural form era outfits what is your opinion? Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Embroidery dating advice
Hi everyone! I've been asked to help stabilise some VERY old tapestry banners - if there are any embroiderers who think they have more of a clue than north european, possibly 17h century I'd be very happy to answer queries on them. More relevantly, the owner also has an exquisite embroidered waistcoat - I get a feeling it is early 19C but it is so vibrant I can't quite believe it. The construction is well illustrated by the photos as is the embroidery. It is still wearable but I've suggested it should be cleaned and packed away from light and other clothes in an acid-neutral environment. Anyone else - who knows more about men's costume - have more of an idea? It feels inspired by India but I couldn't tell you why... http://couthiecouturegallery.fotopic.net/ They're yummy to look at, even if you don't feel you can help :-) Katherine the vague, in a very sunny and cold Edinburgh A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort - Herm Albright ___ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Embroidery dating advice
The waistcoat looks late 18th Century to me. the vibrant colours were popular then too, and if pack away from light for the last couple of hundred years, would retain it's colour. It looks in fabulous condition! I would lightly vacum it, with a low power vacume like ones used in museums, but that's all before packing it away properly. cleaning often confuses people into washing it in water, which might damage the garment. No matter the condition, it shouldn't be worn any more. At the end of the 18th Century, fashions were becomming inspired by the near east. Archeaoligical digs in Egypt and expansion into the Medeterrianian and Eastward by England were influencing a new Classical era. That may be why you feel it's inspired by India. Looks yummy! Kelly in Nova Scotia - Original Message - From: katherine sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:36 AM Subject: [h-cost] Embroidery dating advice Hi everyone! I've been asked to help stabilise some VERY old tapestry banners - if there are any embroiderers who think they have more of a clue than north european, possibly 17h century I'd be very happy to answer queries on them. More relevantly, the owner also has an exquisite embroidered waistcoat - I get a feeling it is early 19C but it is so vibrant I can't quite believe it. The construction is well illustrated by the photos as is the embroidery. It is still wearable but I've suggested it should be cleaned and packed away from light and other clothes in an acid-neutral environment. Anyone else - who knows more about men's costume - have more of an idea? It feels inspired by India but I couldn't tell you why... http://couthiecouturegallery.fotopic.net/ They're yummy to look at, even if you don't feel you can help :-) Katherine the vague, in a very sunny and cold Edinburgh A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort - Herm Albright ___ Yahoo! Photos - NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's new natural form era gown, opinions?
At 05:26 08/02/2006, you wrote: I was just browsing Simplicity's website (I got a free pattern for submitting a sewing tip to their 'idea exchange') and I found that they have a new historic costume pattern, http://www.simplicity.com/dv1_v4.cfm?design=4244 it looks like a bustle or natural form period gown, they may be trying to cash in on The Phantom of the Opera (though it seems a bit late) as their model does look quite a bit like Emmy Rossum (who played the main character, Christine) although they do already have a version of the costume she wears when she does her solo on stage for the rest of the film she wears typical late 1870s to early 1880s outfits. Anyway, onto my point does anybody have an opinion on how authentic this is and whether any inauthentic parts would be fixable? The bodice doesn't look too bad it's got 2 darts at the front and princess seams at the back, it reminds me of a polonaise except for the back drape. It would need fitting to be worn over a corset but otherwise I can't seem to pinpoint a flaw (I admit I don't like the look of the back of the skirt but I don't know if that's because it's inauthentic or I just dislike the style). Then again I've only done a little research into this era, so for those who have more expertise in natural form era outfits what is your opinion? Elizabeth The bodice looks reasonable, but I am really not sure about the drapes coming from the back bodice in that way. I've made a few of this period and would much rather rely on my favourites, Hunnisett and Arnold for patterns. Dover's Harper's Bazaar book has lots of pictures of this era, and Truly Victorian has lots of patterns for skirts of this period. I would perhaps not spend your pattern on this. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Funn Stockings, was 18th century stockings
I've just found my samples from Funn Stockings. (Who says my workroom is a shambles?) The silk ones are very fine, and would need to be worn over another pair for men's 18th century. The cotton ones are not so fine, but are translucent rather than transparent. Hope this helps. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Knitted gloves
I was drooling over a friends new book this weekend that had great pics of, if I remember correctly, 3 pairs of knitted gloves. One of the earliest pairs was red. He got it at a museum in Bavaria on a trip last fall so the text is in Germany. Haven't had a chance to search around and see if it is available outside the museum but here is the info I copied down: Textile Schatze aus Renaissance und Barock Bayerisches National Museum Birgitt Borkopp-Restle Bavarian National Museum Had some great pics of a 16/early 17C embroideryed shirt, lace examples, etc. as well Catherine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Child-friendly sword
Sheridan, I've used rubber daggers in various live-action games (full-contact fighting ones as well as the more 'drama' oriented ones). We picked them up at martial art stores, where you can also buy wooden practice swords or shinai (bamboo practice swords), all three of which should qualify under your friend's qualifications. Angharad / Jonnalyhn Wolfcat ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's new natural form era gown, opinions?
The actual picture looks as if the side poof is pulled to the front opening but the drawing view does not. I don't know if that is the problem you seek, but that is one difference I see. The ones I've seen like this are pulled more towards the back, not to the front. They form the bustle and butt enhancement with all the poofyness. - Original Message - From: Elizabeth Walpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historic Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 12:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] Simplicity's new natural form era gown, opinions? I was just browsing Simplicity's website (I got a free pattern for submitting a sewing tip to their 'idea exchange') and I found that they have a new historic costume pattern, http://www.simplicity.com/dv1_v4.cfm?design=4244 it looks like a bustle or natural form period gown, they may be trying to cash in on The Phantom of the Opera (though it seems a bit late) as their model does look quite a bit like Emmy Rossum (who played the main character, Christine) although they do already have a version of the costume she wears when she does her solo on stage for the rest of the film she wears typical late 1870s to early 1880s outfits. Anyway, onto my point does anybody have an opinion on how authentic this is and whether any inauthentic parts would be fixable? The bodice doesn't look too bad it's got 2 darts at the front and princess seams at the back, it reminds me of a polonaise except for the back drape. It would need fitting to be worn over a corset but otherwise I can't seem to pinpoint a flaw (I admit I don't like the look of the back of the skirt but I don't know if that's because it's inauthentic or I just dislike the style). Then again I've only done a little research into this era, so for those who have more expertise in natural form era outfits what is your opinion? Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: underpants 19th c?
When 19th cent? early? middle? late? There are some patterns Past Patterns( to buy) and Elizabeth Stewart Clark( free on the web) take care of middle 19th cent (split crothch and all). Folkwear USED to make a late 19th cent. version, I don't know if they still do. MIa in Charlotte, NC, who uses that mid-19th cent to wear under 18c kit. I just can't do without - Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Embroidery dating advice
At 01:36 AM 2/8/2006, you wrote: Hi everyone! I've been asked to help stabilise some VERY old tapestry banners - if there are any embroiderers who think they have more of a clue than north european, possibly 17h century I'd be very happy to answer queries on them. More relevantly, the owner also has an exquisite embroidered waistcoat - I get a feeling it is early 19C but it is so vibrant I can't quite believe it. The construction is well illustrated by the photos as is the embroidery. It is still wearable but I've suggested it should be cleaned and packed away from light and other clothes in an acid-neutral environment. Anyone else - who knows more about men's costume - have more of an idea? It feels inspired by India but I couldn't tell you why... http://couthiecouturegallery.fotopic.net/ They're yummy to look at, even if you don't feel you can help :-) Katherine the vague, in a very sunny and cold Edinburgh A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort - Herm Albright I can't view anything but the indices and the first picture of each set. The one picture of the waistcoat gives me the impression that it is later 18th rather than early 19th century (I'm no expert in this area, so take my impression for what it's worth :-D). Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] period fastenings
Perhaps I was not clear enough - when I was talking about petticoats, I meant mainly the 19th century of course. The fact is, I was asking if anyone knew a web page or a book where I could read something about fastenings in common - which kind of fastening was used in the middle ages, what in renaissance etc. For example I'd like to know when did people start to use lace as a fastening - and when buttons. and how did the buttons actually look like? Were they from the same fabric as the garment, or could they have been made of metal? For such questions it is hard to find anywhere an answer. Melanie Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm a little confused. I didn't know anyone was wearing anything like petticoats in 13th-15th c. Europe. Are you looking at a different place? Or did I misunderstand your question? Type of fastening will depend on what garment, when, where, worn by whom, made of what, etc. There's not really an easy answer. Melanie Schuessler Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: Actually, I'd like to get to know something about all periods, but just now I need late middle ages (13th-15th century) Joan Jurancich wrote: At 03:21 AM 2/7/2006, you wrote: Hi everyone, I've just come to a question about period fastenings - when I'm making period costumes, I often never know what type of fastening shall I use. F.ex. the petticoats - were they fastened simply with a ribbon or a button or what? Does anyone know any web page or book or simply anything that could help me? Thanks a lot Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Simplicity's new natural form era gown, opinions?
This is from another group I sew with. Their emphasis is on the Victorian/ Edwardian Period. It's sure pretty, but I wouldn't exactly call it historic. Costume is the right word. But it looks like they're trying to get an 1880 look. When JoAnn has their Simplicity $1 pattern sale, I'd pick it up because it looks like the bodice would work, with a few modifications. I really don't like the poufy stuff at the hip -- I'd change that part to something pleated. Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour On Feb 8, 2006, at 12:26 AM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: I was just browsing Simplicity's website (I got a free pattern for submitting a sewing tip to their 'idea exchange') and I found that they have a new historic costume pattern, http://www.simplicity.com/dv1_v4.cfm?design=4244 it looks like a bustle or natural form period gown, they may be trying to cash in on The Phantom of the Opera (though it seems a bit late) as their model does look quite a bit like Emmy Rossum (who played the main character, Christine) although they do already have a version of the costume she wears when she does her solo on stage for the rest of the film she wears typical late 1870s to early 1880s outfits. Anyway, onto my point does anybody have an opinion on how authentic this is and whether any inauthentic parts would be fixable? The bodice doesn't look too bad it's got 2 darts at the front and princess seams at the back, it reminds me of a polonaise except for the back drape. It would need fitting to be worn over a corset but otherwise I can't seem to pinpoint a flaw (I admit I don't like the look of the back of the skirt but I don't know if that's because it's inauthentic or I just dislike the style). Then again I've only done a little research into this era, so for those who have more expertise in natural form era outfits what is your opinion? Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 17th Century Glove Pictures?
And I have ordered several back issues of magazines. This is another one of those evil sites. Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/253 - Release Date: 2/7/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] period fastenings
For example I'd like to know when did people start to use lace as a fastening - and when buttons. and how did the buttons actually look like? Were they from the same fabric as the garment, or could they have been made of metal? For such questions it is hard to find anywhere an answer. http://www.eleanorlebrun.com/closure.htm I have started to look into this question. But I do not have all the details worked out, a work in progress. I hope it helps a bit. Good luck Annette ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century Glove Pictures?
Quoting Melanie Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Susan B. Farmer wrote: OK. thanks to the evil woman who pointed out the MFA in Boston site, I've been drooling there for *far* too long. Count Richelieu's gloves intrigue me. Are there examples of knitted gloves *before* 1600? There's a pair of red knitted silk and metal thread 15th-century pontifical gloves and one silk and metal knitted 13th-century archbishop's glove in Textile Conservation and Research by Mechtild Flury-Lemberg. Cool. If the red knitted silk and metal thread are the ones at the VA, I just found them. Thanks! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Embroidery dating advice
Hi Katherine, Yum yum, thanks for posting the link. Oh god, i cant stand those embroideries :-) Its a mans waistcoat 1780-90 my guess. Feather patterns was very sheek in the 80ies. Cant help with the tappestries. Even though it looks very inspired from India it could have ben made anywhere in Europe, perhaps France? Bjarne - Original Message - From: katherine sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 10:36 AM Subject: [h-cost] Embroidery dating advice Hi everyone! I've been asked to help stabilise some VERY old tapestry banners - if there are any embroiderers who think they have more of a clue than north european, possibly 17h century I'd be very happy to answer queries on them. More relevantly, the owner also has an exquisite embroidered waistcoat - I get a feeling it is early 19C but it is so vibrant I can't quite believe it. The construction is well illustrated by the photos as is the embroidery. It is still wearable but I've suggested it should be cleaned and packed away from light and other clothes in an acid-neutral environment. Anyone else - who knows more about men's costume - have more of an idea? It feels inspired by India but I couldn't tell you why... http://couthiecouturegallery.fotopic.net/ They're yummy to look at, even if you don't feel you can help :-) Katherine the vague, in a very sunny and cold Edinburgh A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort - Herm Albright ___ Yahoo! Photos - NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Links RE: [h-cost] 17th Century Glove Pictures?
Still looking for the danish wedding outfit with glove link, sorry. :( http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseAction=SM.navUUID=D69CF392-BC32-4DBD-8CBCA2C0FF8D78DF http://www.davidrumsey.com/amico/amico934716-18548.html http://www.geocities.com/stiobhard/glove.html http://www.gloveassociation.org http://search.concealedgarments.org/highlights.jsp;jsessionid=2ey8fk54bf5yi This image of a glove: http://search.concealedgarments.org/results.jsp?highlight=4 Gloves London, Batsford. 1982. Cummings, Valerie. (Starts at 1600. Cover Elizabethan gloves, and has reproduction of mid-17th-century patterns for gloves) Compte de l'Argenterie du Roi annee 1610: Rendus, par Me. Pierre Dela Bruyere Argentier. Sacre du Roy Louis Treize. A Pierre Robin Marchand de Drap - et Jean Royer Marchand drapier la somme de 17316 - 17 - 69...pour les fournitures qu'ils ont faits pour ; Paris C. 1715 [Paris, c. 1715] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Links RE: [h-cost] 17th Century Glove Pictures?
At 16:45 08/02/2006, you wrote: Still looking for the danish wedding outfit with glove link, sorry. :( http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseAction=SM.navUUID=D69CF392-BC32-4DBD-8CBCA2C0FF8D78DF http://www.davidrumsey.com/amico/amico934716-18548.html http://www.geocities.com/stiobhard/glove.html http://www.gloveassociation.org http://search.concealedgarments.org/highlights.jsp;jsessionid=2ey8fk54bf5yi This image of a glove: http://search.concealedgarments.org/results.jsp?highlight=4 Gloves London, Batsford. 1982. Cummings, Valerie. (Starts at 1600. Cover Elizabethan gloves, and has reproduction of mid-17th-century patterns for gloves) Compte de l'Argenterie du Roi annee 1610: Rendus, par Me. Pierre Dela Bruyere Argentier. Sacre du Roy Louis Treize. A Pierre Robin Marchand de Drap - et Jean Royer Marchand drapier la somme de 17316 - 17 - 69...pour les fournitures qu'ils ont faits pour ; Paris C. 1715 [Paris, c. 1715] Thank you Francesca. Some of these I got off your links page, but some are new. All are helpful for me to talk to my customer. I'm very grateful. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: 17th Century Glove Pictures?
It's somewhat dated but this might have something of use... http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/histshoe/redfern/index.htm Marc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: Burger King costumes
Thank you. Me too. If Creepy Plastic Guy showed up at my place, I'ld have no recourse other than to beat him to death with a baseball bat. eyu (shivers!) (Sorry, no costume content.) Arlys On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:52:06 -0800 Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That's our name for the character, That Creepy Plastic Guy But I have to admit to loving the commercial with the King and Darth Vader. :D Althea ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: 17th Century Glove Pictures?
At 17:34 08/02/2006, you wrote: It's somewhat dated but this might have something of use... http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/histshoe/redfern/index.htm Marc Marc That is an amazing site - thank you - it has given me more ideas, as I was hoping to find something not quite so fancy as so many are, and there are some great examples there. I'm beginning to look forward to these now, even though I have a few jobs to finish first! Thanks again Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Links RE: [h-cost] 17th Century Glove Pictures?
Kinda found where it used to live ... http://www.manchestergalleries.org/costume/catalogue/ContactSheet.php?QueryName=BasicQueryQueryPage=%2Fcostume%2Fcatalogue%2Findex.phpAnywhere=SummaryData%7CAdmWebMetadataQueryTerms=gloveQueryOption=AnywhereSubmit=SearchStartAt=41 On Wed, February 8, 2006 10:45 am, Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio said: Still looking for the danish wedding outfit with glove link, sorry. :( http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseAction=SM.navUUID=D69CF392-BC32-4DBD-8CBCA2C0FF8D78DF http://www.davidrumsey.com/amico/amico934716-18548.html http://www.geocities.com/stiobhard/glove.html http://www.gloveassociation.org http://search.concealedgarments.org/highlights.jsp;jsessionid=2ey8fk54bf5yi This image of a glove: http://search.concealedgarments.org/results.jsp?highlight=4 Gloves London, Batsford. 1982. Cummings, Valerie. (Starts at 1600. Cover Elizabethan gloves, and has reproduction of mid-17th-century patterns for gloves) Compte de l'Argenterie du Roi annee 1610: Rendus, par Me. Pierre Dela Bruyere Argentier. Sacre du Roy Louis Treize. A Pierre Robin Marchand de Drap - et Jean Royer Marchand drapier la somme de 17316 - 17 - 69...pour les fournitures qu'ils ont faits pour ; Paris C. 1715 [Paris, c. 1715] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Chiara http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/societyofstanne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] fine drawing?
Hi Dawn, Gosh i never read that chapter, i surely will now. I dont understand this fine-drawing thing either. Never heard it. Dont you think they just mean that you have to press the seams to the sides and iron? I have never seen any stitches used on the right side of the back pieces. In the american book Costume Close Up there are sewing instruktions two of a mans coat. Only types of stitches used is: back stitches, point á rabattre sous la main and slanted hemming stitches. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 4:48 AM Subject: [h-cost] fine drawing? I'm trying to translate instructions from _The Cut of Men's Clothes_ for the assembly of an 18th century coat. (page 88 of the recent hardcover edition) The backs are joined together by backstitching on the wrong side and then fine-drawing on the right, working from the skirt opening upwards. Backstitching I understand, but fine-drawing has me lost. I found two references online that seem to suggest it is a method for joining fabric by butting the edges together, but that doesn't work with a seam that's already backstitched... does it? Can anyone clarify this for me? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE: Embroidery dating advice
Katherine, I would suggest the waistcoat is between 1790 and 1800, just at the change of fashion from Georgian to Regency. The embroidery very much harks to the Georgian, in that it is so colourful in execution, and quite heavy in design. The sprigging, however, gives it away as Regency, as this was very much part of the Regency motif, as does the ivory silk. The cut of the waistcoat is also indicative of early Regency. It retains a slightly longer waist, with pointed fronts and large pockets, all of which are Georgian influences. We see the fronts of waistcoats straighten as Regency fashion takes hold, and pockets become smaller. As to the banners, I'd need a little more information as to dimensions. I would suggest these may not be banners, rather orphry bands, definitely ecclesiastical. Without being able to examine the banners in person, or having better detailed close-ups, it looks as though the first in the series is perhaps Opus Anglicanum, done in needlepainting and some or nue. In which case this is likely very valuable, museum piece, likely worked on a wool/silk ground with silk threads and gold. I would suggest this is late, rather than early Opus Anglicanum, perhaps 14th or 15th century. The figure work here is very fluid, and the execution of fills and the or nue quite skilled. I'd also suggest this was done in a professional embroidery house. The second is earlier, I think, and is unfinished. But, again, without being able to examine the piece, or having better images, it is difficult to tell. There is a great deal of water damage here. The figures seem a bit stiffer in form, and so I'd hazard a guess at 13th century. The cartoons are clearly visible here, which would indicate either an unfinished piece, or a severely damaged piece. The third is a puzzle. It looks as though it's edged with damaged green silk velvet, and has no taper to it at all, which would suggest not an orphry, perhaps rather part of the outside edge of an altar frontal. The figures are quite crude, reminiscent of very early opus anglicanum, so perhaps 11th century or earlier. But, again, without being able to examine the piece, I'm only stabbing in the dark. I'd need to be able to look at the textiles themselves to ascertain material content, etc., in order to give a more educated opinion. These could be very well done modern pieces made to look older. Whatever you do, you're going to have to be sure to use only the best quality conservator's materials. There is quite a range of thought on restoration/preservation/conservation. At the very least you can use conservator's gauze to stabilize those areas that are in the worst repair. Just my thoughts. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.5rivers.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Embroidery dating advice
On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:36:49 + (GMT), katherine sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been asked to help stabilise some VERY old tapestry banners - if there are any embroiderers who think they have more of a clue than north european, possibly 17h century I'd be very happy to answer queries on them. http://couthiecouturegallery.fotopic.net/ From what I can see in the photoes, I'd hassard that the first one might be maybe as early as 1350, but most likely 15thC. The colors are more or less compatible with mid 14thC english embroideries in the VA.On the other hand, there is the golden/apricot color and what looks like orange. Do you have any idea if the golden shades might be faded madder reds or if it was golden all along ? I can't make out the stitches properly, but it looks like an Opus Anglicanum piece from what I see. The goldwork background used here seems to be a more common feature of the 15thC than the 14th from what I've seen over the years. There is a cope in Historisk Museum her in Oslo with an embroidered band bearing a superficial resemblance to this piece btw. The halfdone or very worn banner is hard to tell due to the stitches not being very visible.And too little of the pattern and colors are seen. Is it the back piece of the one above ? Or a separate one ? The 3rd one is the first I've seen with green velvet. Lots of apricot or faded madder reds, but too blurry to tell much. Opus Anglicanum work and couched gold background in different patterns ? The colors look more french than english to me, but as I can't see the details close enough... Thanks for posting these, I'd love to see these close up. Do you have any better detailed photoes ? Know anything about their history or origin ? Gunvor -- Jeg har sagt ja og nei og DA får du lov Anders (nesten 4 år) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: Embroidery dating advice
As to the banners, I'd need a little more information as to dimensions. I would suggest these may not be banners, rather orphry bands, definitely ecclesiastical. Ah, that was my first thought too, but it was just a hunch so kept quiet. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Child-friendly sword
Kids I know generally have wood, padded and then covered with leather. Works for both swords and axes, and looks period as well as being relatively safe. Jean Shane Sheridan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Hello everyone! I'm forwarding this on behalf of someone on another list; I figured folks here would have an idea or two. :-) -- Snip to relevent question: On another note, friends of mine are looking for a safe dagger / short sword for the enjoyment of their young son. (Safe - as in will not puncture or perforate another person, causing welts upon older brother is considered acceptable use) They do not want the cheap plastic junk found at halloween. I vaguely remember someone posting on a forum about a rubber dagger, seems to me it was made out of a similar material to that of hockey pucks. But unfortunately I cannot seem to find where I saw it. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please let me know. -- Thanks in advance! Sheridan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: 17th Century Glove Pictures?
Hi Marc, Gosh thanks a lot. You have made my days a head now. Lady Herringtons gloves has bullion rosesBULLION ROSES.. Tada tada.. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Marc Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: 17th Century Glove Pictures? It's somewhat dated but this might have something of use... http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/histshoe/redfern/index.htm Marc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Child-friendly sword (Shane Sheridan)
Hello, Sheridan. Mr.Olan Knight of Knighthawk Armoury can probably help you find just what you need in a latex weapon. Here's the link: http://www.latex-weaponry.com/ --Leslie Leslie Mundy, DCC Office Hours: M-W-F Noon-5:00 John Carter Brown Library, Box 1894, Brown University Providence, RI Just think... Somewhere a butterfly, dreaming that it is Chuang Chou, flutters its wings and creates a distant hurricane. http://NewMoon2000.tripod.com/oneway/indexnavigator.html __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] fine drawing?
I am going to hazzard a guess here as a seamstress, not as an authority on 18th century men's wear. I would think that the fine drawing may mean a fine gathering stitch used to make the upper layer lay flat. I have done many curved seams though, and never needed to use that method, but it does help in getting sleeves into armholes (hidden gathering stitch, of course). Just a possibility. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:32:19 +0100 To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] fine drawing? Hi Dawn, Gosh i never read that chapter, i surely will now. I dont understand this fine-drawing thing either. Never heard it. Dont you think they just mean that you have to press the seams to the sides and iron? I have never seen any stitches used on the right side of the back pieces. In the american book Costume Close Up there are sewing instruktions two of a mans coat. Only types of stitches used is: back stitches, point á rabattre sous la main and slanted hemming stitches. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 4:48 AM Subject: [h-cost] fine drawing? I'm trying to translate instructions from _The Cut of Men's Clothes_ for the assembly of an 18th century coat. (page 88 of the recent hardcover edition) The backs are joined together by backstitching on the wrong side and then fine-drawing on the right, working from the skirt opening upwards. Backstitching I understand, but fine-drawing has me lost. I found two references online that seem to suggest it is a method for joining fabric by butting the edges together, but that doesn't work with a seam that's already backstitched... does it? Can anyone clarify this for me? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Netscape. just the net you need ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: 17th Century Glove Pictures?
Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Marc, Gosh thanks a lot. You have made my days a head now. Lady Herringtons gloves has bullion rosesBULLION ROSES.. Oh, wow! Is there a date for those? Looks like it *might* be late 16th C. Susan BTW, Marc, your link to Hawking glove of Henry VIII is broken. :-( - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] period fastenings
On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't done much research before the 1400s so I can't talk about anything before then, however in the _Museum of London: Clothing and Textiles_ book it shows fabric buttons on the sleeves of the gothic fitted dresses (usually referred to as cotehardies in the SCA). The book has enough instructions for how to make the fabric buttons, that I have done so based simply on that book. Somewhere I read that metal buttons could/were used on the front of the over-dresses (but I can't come up with an extant example off the top of my head) but that the buttons were so expensive that sometimes people would not attach the metal buttons but instead lace the buttons onto the dress via holes such as for lacing up the front of the dress. Unfortunately I can't remember _where_ I read this so I have no idea how reliable the source is. The _Museum of London_ book also shows hand-made eyelets for lacing down the front closure of the gothic fitted dress. I'm sure Robin has many more sources for this period then I do :-) Maybe not, but I'll elaborate where I can ;-) First, I think it's important to distinguish layers here. Buttoning down the front of a dress seems to be typical only of the outer layer (the layer that might actually have been called a cotehardie in French) but not the inner layer (the fitted supportive dress, which could be worn alone or with an overdress). Laced fronts seem pretty much universal on the supportive (inner or single) layer. Sometimes the lacing is visible in images; sometimes it is not, which could simply mean that the artists did not conventionally render it, not that it was necessarily invisible to the eye. (I have never seen evidence of a back lacing of the supportive dress; if anyone ever finds such evidence, I'd like to see it.) Next, you need to distinguish time and place. Buttons down the front of overdresses seem to be common only in certain periods and regions -- I have this sense of seeing them much more often in English sources than French, for instance, and more often in the earlier versions of the fitted overdresses (say, to 1390 or so) than in the later ones. There also seems to be a regional/temporal variance in preference for whether to use buttons to fit the sleeves, and how many/how far up the arm. You can see a few buttons at the wrist or partway up the forearm quite early in the 14th c., with the upper half of the sleeve not fitted; then later you see the buttons go up past the elbow, making the entire sleeve fitted. Sometimes there are no visible buttons, suggesting that lacing or sewing-in was used to tighten the sleeves to the arm; in fact, buttons on the sleeve seem relatively rare after 1400 or so, but the sleeves remain extremely tight. The next distinction to make is class. The buttons you use would reflect the money you have to spend. The fabric buttons in the MOL's Textiles and Clothing book have gotten so much attention that some people don't realize that there's a much larger sample set of surviving buttons of other materials: metal, bone, horn (I think). Many examples of these are reproduced in the MOL's Dress Accessories book. I'd have to look up the various options, but I would expect wood to have been equally likely. Also, bear in mind that we don't know what kinds of garments the fabric buttons (or, for that matter, the laced eyelets) from the MOL book came from -- it is probably more likely that they are from a lower-class tunic than from a middle- or upper-class fitted dress, and equally likely to be from a man's garment as a woman's. If you've got an upper-class dress, you might want to think twice before doing fabric buttons. In particular, I don't think I'd choose fabric buttons for the front of a buttoned fitted overdress, which is an expensive garment; anyone wearing it could have afforded metal or another material. Bottom line: To determine whether and how to use buttons, lacing, etc., figure out what place, time, style, and class you're focusing on, and look specifically at sources that are the closest possible match. Remember that even in one style (in this case the fitted dress of 1350-1450) there are numerous variations in such things as bust height, skirt width, and neckline depth, as well as button/lacing use; ideally you would use a combination of features that are all consistent with a single period/place/class, not mixed-and-matched over a hundred-year stretch. (People of the period would no doubt have been as aware of these differences as we are of things like modern hemline length or waist height or shoulder size, which all vary over the years in modern fashions.) Oh, about those buttons attached through eyelet holes: This was apparently a means of attaching the buttons in some garments. The buttons were not sewn to the cloth, but were put through eyelets and then threaded through a ribbon on the inside. As far as I know the other part of the garment had conventional
[h-cost] pinker alert
Hi all, I forget who it was who was interested in a 19th C Pinker. There is another up on eBay right now. You will find it listed under Sewing tools. This looks to be pretty much the same as the one I found two weeks ago. Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Italian Linen
Hello! De-lurking for a moment . . . While perusing the web, I stumbled onto something called Italian linen, which can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/a826d Does anyone know how this would compare to Irish linen? Or is it just a different name for the same thing? Kate McClure Grand Pooh-Bah Beyond Reality Costumers Guild www.brcg.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] glove cuffs
Hi, Forgive my ignorance, but i have no idea, and therefore ask stupid. But how was these scalloped cuffs for gloves made. Did they have wire in the edge, to make it stand? Does anybody know wich kind of seam is used to turn these scallopes? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Wife of Bath's headcovering
I'm wondering about the Wife of Bath and what she's got on her head in the Canterbury Tales: Hir coverchiefs ful fyne weren of ground, I dorste swere they weyeden ten pound That on a Sonday weren upon hir heed. Mainly I'm wondering about the use of the word ground in the first line. I've seen a suggestion that this could translate to mean texture, as in her coverchiefs were of a very fine texture. The OED doesn't seem to offer any goodies, but perhaps I missed something--the entries for ground are quite long! Does anyone have other information about this? Thanks, Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Child-friendly sword
These are inexpensive and plastic, but look pretty good: http://www.anytimecostumes.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc? Don't forget the question mark, it's part of the url. Tea Rose -- From: Shane Sheridan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Child-friendly sword -- Snip to relevent question: On another note, friends of mine are looking for a safe dagger / short sword for the enjoyment of their young son. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] pinker alert
If you go to ebay's Collectibles/Vintage Sewing category, without going down into Tools, and search on pinking machine as two words (not a phrase), searching for those words in the listings as well as the titles, there are about ten pinking machines are listed. Which is about the usual number for any given day on eBay. I've thought of getting one off and on. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: Hi all, I forget who it was who was interested in a 19th C Pinker. There is another up on eBay right now. You will find it listed under Sewing tools. This looks to be pretty much the same as the one I found two weeks ago. Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] re: fine drawing
I perhaps didnt realise wich part of the suit you have read that fine drawing should be used. Is it for the slash you make at the top of the back vent opening, to make an extra pleat? I'm not sure either. All it says is the back. Rather vague. Then she perhaps is meaning that this seam should be very accurately made with tiny stitches, to hold well, as there only is very little seam allowance here. Waugh is quoting, sometimes paraphrasing, a mid-18th c tailor's manual. Fine drawing doesnt appear to be small stitches or reinforcement. Waugh/Garsault usually says buckram and or interlining if that's what she/he means. it may well be worth the original questioner's time to find Garsault's book. Perhaps he defines the term. Lalah's comment on ever so slight gather stitches may make sense at this slash area. I didnt use gathers as the tops of the pleats are supposed to lie very flat. The slash (hidden by folding pleats to the inside where it becomes the tiniest of holes) is concealed by a fancy button. I have a different crazy idea: suppose Waugh is talking about the center back seam, not the skirt vent. If you backstitches the seam by hand and pressed it open, the the CB, which takes alot of stress, would only be held by 1 line of stitches. It would be weak. If she means, press the CB seam to the right, then blind stitch or catch stitch the 3 layers (garment 2 seam allowances) then there is an element of reinforcement. Seems like it would make the seam oddly stiff. This is not my favorite interpretation of the p88 paragraph. I chose to make the interlining strong and capable of taking all the stress of wearing. ... For my gustavian suit, wich has this slash and extra pleat, i whipstitched the parts together, with very fine stitches. It perhaps is one of the most difficult places on a coat to make. Very very true! I covered the slashed edges with the teensiest band of silk organza to contain those stray silk satin fibres of the garment fabric. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] re: fine drawing?
I do this at exactly this point, the lower end of the CB seam just above the pleat opening. It has to be done from the outside. assuming a vertical seam in the center of this diagram, the stitches would run I_ _I I_ _I I have no idea what this kind of stitching is called, but if somebody says Yes, I bet that's fine-drawing, I'll willingly call it that! I have seen it refered to as ladder stitch. I use it quite often, and was my first though when the initial instructions were to work from the outside. It's used to sew teddy bears and the like after you have stuffed them;) I also used it to join tabs to my doublet bodice. And sleeves to bodices if made up seperately;) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com 6 days of digests to go through... oh boy;) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.3/254 - Release Date: 8/02/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Dune
I have been indulging guilty pleasures. I got the newly issued DVD of Duneanother film much hated but I love because I don't find it confusing [and I've never read the books] and again beautifully and perfectly designed by Bob Ringwood. Each planet has a look that has one foot firmly planted in an historical period. The Emperor's court looks like a space age Spanish Renaissance court. The doomed House Atrates bears more than a passing resemblance to Nicolas and Alexandria. The nasty House Harkonan is all plastic and protective wear but the Baron's reevers and collar on his vinyl coat look like a cross between Napoleon and Mad King George. [The extended version sux and is kinda like Dune for Dummies...with everything explained to you by a narrator who sounds like a cigar smoking trucker [instead of the Emperor's daughter like in the original version. All so unnecessary. I liked that some things were left hangingor just implied] Anyway...with its story of the oppression of a desert people because their planet is the only place to find the most valuable substance in the universe, and their holy war to gain their independence from cruel occupiers, it all had very creepy overtones it didn't have when it came out. And Arakis...the name of the planet, is way too close to Iraq. Yikes! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Wife of Bath's headcovering
On Wed, 8 Feb 2006, Melanie Schuessler wrote: I'm wondering about the Wife of Bath and what she's got on her head in the Canterbury Tales: Hir coverchiefs ful fyne weren of ground, I dorste swere they weyeden ten pound That on a Sonday weren upon hir heed. Mainly I'm wondering about the use of the word ground in the first line. I've seen a suggestion that this could translate to mean texture, as in her coverchiefs were of a very fine texture. I've always read it as meaning of a very fine material; probably echoing in my mind with the use you hear in embroidery ground as meaning the base fabric on which embroidery is done. I have no idea whether this reading is justified; I've never much thought about it! --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Embroidery dating
This sounds really exciting. What an experience to be able to see and handle such stuff! . and am I the only one in a peculiar mood today, or did anyone else look at the subject line and think, Embroidery dating -- how to help your embroidery find its perfect soul mate? I think it's entirely too close to Valentine's Day 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] pinker alert
Thanks Fran, I love the one I got and didn't think of some of the other ways of listing to find one of the same for other people who might like to gain one of these. Kathleen - Original Message - From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] pinker alert If you go to ebay's Collectibles/Vintage Sewing category, without going down into Tools, and search on pinking machine as two words (not a phrase), searching for those words in the listings as well as the titles, there are about ten pinking machines are listed. Which is about the usual number for any given day on eBay. I've thought of getting one off and on. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: Hi all, I forget who it was who was interested in a 19th C Pinker. There is another up on eBay right now. You will find it listed under Sewing tools. This looks to be pretty much the same as the one I found two weeks ago. Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] pinker alert
I've been tempted, off and on, to bid on one of those crank models for pinking trimmings (I don't generally like to finish seams that way). That's why I've been reassured to see there's always a good selection on eBay (although I'm sure some of them are rusty and/or dull). What I really want though, is a choice of shapes beyond the standard rather shallow zigzag. Has anyone found a modern or historic tool that really works well for that? Fran Lavolta Press http://.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: Thanks Fran, I love the one I got and didn't think of some of the other ways of listing to find one of the same for other people who might like to gain one of these. Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Blocking a Wool Felt Hat
I've also had good luck putting a wet felt hat into a ziplock bag, still slightly open* (a closed ziplock will explode), and microwaving it for 10-15 seconds. It skips the whole using the kettle thing but REMEMBER steam is HOT. The hat will be hot too. If it's an old hat you can wash it is before you steam/microwave it so you're not putting a dirty or stained hat on your head. Wash gently with shampoo, squeezing the water through. Rinse thoroughly. Once it's wet and hot, gently pull the felt onto the block. You may need some strength but don't tug. Wet felt is more fragile than dry felt and it will tear. And then you make a smaller hat with it. Best of luck. Making hats is really fun! LynnD On 2/6/06, kelly grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have a wool hat, it's incredibly easy to steam it to the shape you want! You need to find something that will be a good shape for a block, like a flower pot. Make sure it's a good size to match your head size. Remove all the addition hat stuff from inside the felt, like the hat band and such. Then using you kettle, steam the inside of the felt and then pull it down over the block. Keep trying until you get the desired shape. the felt will move around quite a bit! Have fun! Kelly in Nova Scotia - Original Message - From: Wanda Pease [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: H-Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 10:48 PM Subject: [h-cost] Blocking a Wool Felt Hat I'm going to try and make a Tudor Style tall hat with the pleated crown. I went to the local GoodWill and they had a hat that fitted perfectly of 100% wool felt. Problem is that it is a domed crown rather than square. Is there a way to steam that crown and get it fairly fat? I intend to play with an thick interlining that I have to get the brim shape, then I'll cut the actual hat brim. Does this sound reasonable, or does it sound like it will be more work than simply creating the under-structure out the interfacing and paper and going from there? Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: 17th Century Glove Pictures?
From: Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTW, Marc, your link to Hawking glove of Henry VIII is broken. :-( I'll try to get it fixed tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up. Marc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] period fastenings
Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: Perhaps I was not clear enough - when I was talking about petticoats, I meant mainly the 19th century of course. The fact is, I was asking if anyone knew a web page or a book where I could read something about fastenings in common - which kind of fastening was used in the middle ages, what in renaissance etc. For example I'd like to know when did people start to use lace as a fastening - and when buttons. and how did the buttons actually look like? Were they from the same fabric as the garment, or could they have been made of metal? For such questions it is hard to find anywhere an answer. Hi. Part of the reason is that, first, there may not be an existing starting date known for what you ask, and second, different items looked different and were made of differing materials as time went on. There are periods in which, looking at illustrations, sculptures, etc., one can determine that a certain item of clothing had begun to, lets say, be fastened by being laced, but that does not mean that the technique of lacing, for example, shoes did not predate it...Different garments and clothing items have come and gone in terms of fastening. For example, there are small shoe buckles being worn on some styles of shoes up until the 1530s or so, then they go out of style up until the late 1650s 0r early 1660s. Another example would be toggles, which, for a while, were common fasteners on shoes and perhaps purses, but were never (or, at best, rarely) seen on clothing (of which I am aware)until after the periods I reenact, although their close cousins, frogs, were. Another e! xample would be button shapes, which changed from different historical periods as well as cultures. Any study of fastenings that wasn't done from an archaeological background (IMO), such as that book on the history of striped clothing and it's social meanings (I can't remember the title, not that it matters in the vein of this discussion)will, by it's nature, be rather incomplete and inconclusive. Most authors feel the need, one assumes, in order to sell the book to a wider audience, to make social commentary, which takes away from the purely scholarly aspect of such a work. Your best scenario, in this situation, would be to look at things on a case by case basis.There are many experts (or at least educated amateurs)within this list that can quote chapter and verse on their own areas of specialty, and assist you in their own ways. Good Luck, Mike T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] pinker alert
Checking the instructions given here, do note that all of the buy-it-now items are art prints! Kathleen - Original Message - From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] pinker alert If you go to ebay's Collectibles/Vintage Sewing category, without going down into Tools, and search on pinking machine as two words (not a phrase), searching for those words in the listings as well as the titles, there are about ten pinking machines are listed. Which is about the usual number for any given day on eBay. I've thought of getting one off and on. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: Hi all, I forget who it was who was interested in a 19th C Pinker. There is another up on eBay right now. You will find it listed under Sewing tools. This looks to be pretty much the same as the one I found two weeks ago. Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] pinker alert
What I like about the nifty tool that I got is that the edging results on soft cotton is a rather dainty feathered effect, On stiffer fabric, it gives the expected sharp zig-zag- pattern. My present project is mainly h-costume inspiration doll clothing and the results for ruschings is simpler but elegant strips that do not require more ornamentation or time to turn the edges. I have plans for Ordinary costume seam finishing to look forward to. Kathleen - Original Message - From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] pinker alert I've been tempted, off and on, to bid on one of those crank models for pinking trimmings (I don't generally like to finish seams that way). That's why I've been reassured to see there's always a good selection on eBay (although I'm sure some of them are rusty and/or dull). What I really want though, is a choice of shapes beyond the standard rather shallow zigzag. Has anyone found a modern or historic tool that really works well for that? Fran Lavolta Press http://.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: Thanks Fran, I love the one I got and didn't think of some of the other ways of listing to find one of the same for other people who might like to gain one of these. Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] period fastenings
Thanks, Annette, for putting that great link to the art work of Carlo Crivelli in your article on fastenings. http://www.eleanorlebrun.com/closure.htm Not only have they collected really good reproductions of his works from all over the world, they also enable close-ups of all the interesting details. Three other artists (who seem to be followers of his) are also on the site. Unfortunately, it's all in Italian, sponsored I think by the region of Italy where he lived and worked, and I can't figure out if there are other artists hiding there. Janet ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE:Embroidery dating - more info on the banners.
Katherine, Given the dimensions you have cited, these embroideries are definitely orphry bands, not banners, worn around the neck, and over a cope, by a priest. 1. Photos 1 to 8. This has not been bordered by the velvet. There are TWO layers of fabric embroidered - the top one has the geometric design and stumpwork, as well as the couched gold thread. This method was often used by professional houses in order to complete extensive orders quickly, in that the embroidery was broken down into parts, with embroiderers working on each part simultaneously, and then the parts assembled. Some thread is silver? (and has turned black) but there is a lot of gold. Indeed silver thread was used, not often, but it was used. There is also the possibility some of the silver thread may in fact be inferior quality gold thread which was applied at a later date, either as a repair, or as an embellishment. The background around the figures is in a diamond or herringbone textured pattern, while a lot of the figures has been sewn through the two layers in the colourful silk which you can see in pictures on the figures clothing and hair. Both of these methods are typical of a great deal of opus anglicanum done by professional houses. Stumpwork forms the uprights of the architectural columns but I think this was covered in metal thread - it looks like crazy fine wire now blackened. Again, this is a common practice in a great deal of opus anglicanum. Sometimes the stumpwork was so raised that wooden supports were underneath. The bottom figure which is only waist length is part of a different piece of fabric - you can feel the join - and there is no 'temple' design above it. The entire orphry may in fact be made up of salvaged parts of other pieces of ecclesiastical embroideries. The 'temple' as you describe it, is common to much of opus anglicanum embroideries, known as arches. Many of the arches were cinquefoil in design, although certainly trefoils were used to represent the trinity. Also the colour of the thread is different. The cords down the border edge of this panel are couched down and you can see bits of gold on them. Which leads me more and more to suspect the orphry is married pieces of salvaged embroideries. This was also a common practice, particularly in the 17th and 18th centuries. Between the two layers of this is a crackled paste which seems to join and stiffen the original fabric - linen? This is fish glue, or sometimes rabbit's foot glue (inferior), used to secure all the thread ends that would have been left after embroidering, and to give some stiffness to the embroidery. It also becomes an excellent food base for insects. Do not under any circumstances dampen the embroideries, as you will dissolve the glue and perhaps completely destroy the embroidery. Only professional restoration houses can undertake such a delicate operation, done on special washing tables that support the textile which delicate washes of de-ionized, de-mineralized water are allowed to flow and drain. It is to be stressed this method is only used as a last resort, when a textile is extremely dirty or infested. Otherwise fine gauze is placed over the textile and a low-pressure vacuum used with the utmost delicacy. I'm not aware of velvet vestments in my own (Orthodox) church but perhaps other traditions vary? The famed and peerless Burgundian Vestments are prepared on a red silk velvet. These date to the 15th century. Here there are also two layers joined by a (now cracked) paste but I don't want to open it more than a few stitches which have already dissolved. See above. How is that you have come to be commissioned to restore these pieces? Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.5rivers.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
