Re: [h-cost] Pattern for red dress on Dr Who
At 21:14 05/05/2009, you wrote: In a message dated 5/5/2009 9:20:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cvir...@thibault.org writes: (Just out of curiosity, what was the lady in red doing in an evening dress, outside in the daytime in the snow, without a coat? I haven't watched Dr. Who.) * She's FREEZING! Will someone get her a wrap or something? I don't watch regularly but since Dr Who travels through space and time, god only knows! It is beautifully art directed though. The old show was toofor its time. James Achenson used to do costumes for the old showbefore he went on the Academy Award fame. (He has 3 I think. Dangerous Liaisons, Restoration and I forget the 3rd. He also did Brazil, Monty Python's Meaning of Life, Time Bandits and I worked for him on Last of the Mohicans. But Michael Mann kept changing things for no reason and insisting stuff be made out of dreadful curtain fabrics, so he quit and had his name taken off the credits. Empire of the Sun was the other one I think. Some of my friends from College worked on, and made costumes for all of the Oscar winners. (I wish that fame had rubbed off on me a little!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
At 00:29 14/04/2009, you wrote: Until recently I had thought that the figure-of-eight ruffs were never stitched to hold the shape, but last week I found a portrait in a current Sotherby's catalogue for a sale of Old Master and early British paintings. This is the link to the catalogue: http://www.sothebys.com/app/paddleReg/paddlereg.do?dispatch=eventDetails event_id=29138 and the particular painting is: http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159527660 The ruff is formed with a lattice effect, intersecting 4 times, and there is a pearl at every intersection, with a group of 3 pearls at the top and bottom edge. I think the pearls are stitched on, rather than representing pin-heads, especially given the groups of pearls at top and bottom. It would be a nightmare to reset after washing. I have never seen anything similar - has anyone else? Suzi, is this similar to the one you referred to. Needless to say I have downloaded it for future reference. Annette Wilson At the moment that particular book is AWOL in the mess that is my workroom, but the idea was similar as far as I can remember. The book is about costume in, I think, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which was heavily influenced by Spanish fashions. I'll have another look later - I'm away today. Suzi - Message: 2 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:39:41 +0200 From: Hanna Zickermann h.zickerm...@gmx.de Subject: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 200904091839.n39iduov018...@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? Thank you, Hanna -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:55:26 +0100 From: Suzi Clarke s...@suziclarke.co.uk Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 7.0.1.0.2.20090409195249.03cb2...@suziclarke.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 19:39 09/04/2009, you wrote: Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? I have seen pictures of ruffs where the 8s are apparently held together, probably with wax (see Janet Arnold). I am sure I also have a photo of a ruff held with red beads - I'll have to go and look for that though - my library is not next to the computer! Suzi -- If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hook Eye closures (was Club for enthusiasts o...)
At 19:47 11/04/2009, you wrote: On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:15 PM, ladybeanofbun...@aol.com wrote: I don't know if any of you have ever come across these, but on one of my period gowns from the 1880's the bodice closes with little black hooks and eyes that are quite unsual, and hard to explain, but the hook slides over and the eyes or bars have like a flap so that when the hook slides over it catches with ease and closes automatically and holds it tight so it won't pop open again! Any chance you could upload pictures? I have some of these I think - a couple of cards full! I'll try and put a picture somewhere. Incidentally, I hate hook and eye tape - it can come apart at crucial moments, especially in theatre or stage shows. When I worked for the RSC they wouldn't use it, after a couple of accidents! Suzi -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs
At 19:39 09/04/2009, you wrote: Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? I have seen pictures of ruffs where the 8s are apparently held together, probably with wax (see Janet Arnold). I am sure I also have a photo of a ruff held with red beads - I'll have to go and look for that though - my library is not next to the computer! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] In Washington DC the week before CC28
At 22:51 03/04/2009, you wrote: Gentle H-costumers, I'm probably not the only one heading out early for CostumeCon; hopefully I can find some others. I'll be in DC between 22 and 30 April before going to CostumeCon in Baldermur, Merilnd as my family says it. I'm looking for h-costumers who might like to pal around for a weekday downtown, perhaps at the Smithsonian, Textile Museum or an art gallery. I'm looking for people available during the day, since I'll be on vacation. My spouse would rather eat paint than look at old clothes. OTOH, he will happily dance, so if you know of a venue with historic dancing, let us know. We'll pack something to wear. If you want to show us the ropes at Glen Echo in the Spanish Ballroom on Sunday 26 Apr, we'd love to meet up. Off the top of my head, here's some local museums that tend to have things of interest to h-costumers. Happy to take your suggestions, too. Thanks all, The DAR Museum - that's a must for frocks and stuff and the lady in charge is great fun, if you get to meet her. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] TudorTailor Fat Goose
At 20:24 30/03/2009, you wrote: Wow, I hope they are able to create this and perhaps? They can get Jean Hunnisett's lost book published as well! I am looking forward to the Stuart Tailor There is no Hunnisett lost book. I was her assistant, working with her before she died. There is nothing unpublished. I would be interested to know where you got that rumour from, and what period it was about. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?
At 14:01 03/03/2009, you wrote: I had a thought about this -- brain working overnight, you know -- and wanted to add to the list of possibilities. Domestic rabbits are the source of all nearly tanned pelts in the US. Showshoe hares are very different from domestic rabbits - they are larger and they turn white in winter like the ermine. This may be a more historically accurate source of white fur for anyone but the highest nobility. If a garment was lined completely with white fur similar to that portrait, it would make more sense to use the large skins of a hare. I'd suspect that ermine has a much shorter length of hair than shown in that portrait. Even shorter than mink - but someone who has compared both would know better. The only ermine I've ever seen was road kill. Surely the best thing would be to check what fur was available at the time of the portrait? And what was worn by people of the status of the Arnolfinis. Sumptuary laws may be relevant here - I don't know if they had them in Holland. * Veale, Elspeth M.: The English Fur Trade in the Later Middle Ages, 2nd Edition, London Folio Society 2005. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/Special:BookSources/0900952385ISBN 0900952385 This might help - not read it myself yet, or Fur in Dress by Elizabeth Ewing. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?
At 14:01 03/03/2009, you wrote: I had a thought about this -- brain working overnight, you know -- and wanted to add to the list of possibilities. Domestic rabbits are the source of all nearly tanned pelts in the US. Showshoe hares are very different from domestic rabbits - they are larger and they turn white in winter like the ermine. This may be a more historically accurate source of white fur for anyone but the highest nobility. If a garment was lined completely with white fur similar to that portrait, it would make more sense to use the large skins of a hare. I'd suspect that ermine has a much shorter length of hair than shown in that portrait. Even shorter than mink - but someone who has compared both would know better. The only ermine I've ever seen was road kill. re the Arnolfini and sumptuary laws, for Holland (which I wrote in my earlier post) I think maybe read Flanders - my geography is a bit off today. Suzi Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?
At 14:58 03/03/2009, you wrote: Surely the best thing would be to check what fur was available at the time of the portrait? And what was worn by people of the status of the Arnolfinis. Sumptuary laws may be relevant here - I don't know if they had them in Holland. Of course -- but if your options are exactly historically correct = ermine vs. gives an extremely accurate look = hare and the price difference is thousands for ermine vs. hundreds or less for hare... I was just throwing it out there for an option. I wasn't making any judgments about what the costume maker should or should not use. I do know that weasels are small animals with short thick pelts -- shorter than the fur painted in the portrait appears to be. Artistic license or some other fur? I don't know sumptuary laws, but I do know some about the historical aspects of hunting and trapping. Large hares that turn white in the winter are (were) much more available over all of Europe than the in the respective peak times in the US. My suggestions was to find out what fur was available, in order to get a modern equivalent, not to spend a fortune on the real thing. (Even when ermine is required for parliamentary robes in England, and peers' robes, it is no longer used, but I believe rabbit is used instead. And one peer recently used fake fur.) Some furs were not supposed to be worn by people under a certain rank, and I am pretty sure that ermine fits that rule. Rabbit, hare, squirrel are all more likely, but I don't have access to my book on fur right now. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mary I ??? now Clouet
At 00:23 02/03/2009, you wrote: I have a big book of Holbein's works, and that is no Holbein. Garment reminds me of something I've seen elsewhere... a Norris redrawing if I remember right. Ok, looked up Norris, and not in there. My guess is a Victorian reproduction of a possibly lost portrait. But the dress style is more late 1560s, early 1570s; which is much too late for Queen Mary Tudor or Holbein. Kimiko If anyone wants a huge number of paintings and drawings by the Clouets, and the school of same, go here http://www.culture.gouv.fr/documentation/joconde/fr/pres.htm bottom right corner Recherche simple, put Clouet in the box and tick avec image, and just enjoy. Clouet was mentioned in respect of the curious case of the Mary picture. I thought it might have come from the series edited by Andre Blum - can't remember the title. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Quilted petticoat - thanks for advice
To all who made suggestions about my quilted petticoat - thanks. I had a final fitting with the customer, and am pleased to report that the petticoat worked beautifully. I did take large darts from waist to hem, in the end, as the fabric is stiff and quite bulky and I needed to have as little bulk at the waist as possible. I could have put it on a matching basque, if I could have found matching silk, but that was impossible. However, the customer was delighted, and the silk dress worked perfectly over it. Suzi (now fighting the pleats on the sacque - but winning!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian corset on UK TV- wearing a corset
At 18:09 24/02/2009, you wrote: On Feb 24, 09, at 12:16 PM, albert...@aol.com wrote: Alas I didn't see it, but was it a split busk up the front? This does indeed enable you to put on the corset but it does not enable you to tighten it up to its correct snugness. And you cannot get the thing on if the laces are pulled up to their tight position. The split busk is actually for taking the damn thing off more than for getting it on correctly. I have to disagree. I am able to put on my corset and tighten it myself with the 2 part corset. Loosen the laces. Wrap the corset around you. Hook up the front. Keep adjusting your anatomy as you slowly pull the corset to its correct tightness. I suspect if you are a size 22 like I am, and are trying for an 18 inch waist, no amount of help will make the corset that tight! The corset will shape you for the Period, which is why I was told you needed to wear one in Period Attire. Well, I can't do it, but then I have short arms, and cannot reach up my back to tighten the top laces, nor over my shoulders to do it that way. And I am a 22 too, but with help, can wear my corset comfortably tight. Suzi (Procrastinating as usual) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker's dummy wearing?
1770's stays, pocket hoops made of striped ticking, calico petticoat, and yards or ready made quilted silk that I am trying to wrastle into a quilted petticoat, without it adding 6 to the waist measurement. The only way it makes sense is to take a ginormous dart from waist to hem - not authentic, but then neither is ready made quilting! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker's dummy wearing?/quilted petticoat
At 20:46 23/02/2009, you wrote: Not to be a naysaying jerk or anything, but actually ready-made quilting is authentic, per se; that doesn't mean the stuff we can get now is the same thing. But professional quilters in Europe did petticoat panels that were sold, including exported to America. So no need to feel like you're cheating with the ready-made. The trouble with trying to fit a quilted petticoat under a 1770s gown is of course that the gown is open from waist to hem, so you can't do what they did when quilted petticoats came back into fashion amongst the Victorians and sew a quilted lower half to a plain upper piece. But in period the quilting might have started at the knee, so you could take the stuffing out of the top part, thus less bulk. They also appear to have been less gathered and more shaped than standard petticoats -- so not a ginormous dart but a slightly more A-line cut than your usual 1770s petticoat. I mean, I'm sure you thought of all this already; I'm just in one of those compulsive-helpfulness moods. Too little sleep. Right now what's on my dummy (I still don't actually HAVE a dummy but what's all over my workroom)Â is income taxes. But then I have a yummy yellow-and-red shot taffeta to make a crispy petticoat from. Lauren 'Tis done, and although I says it as shouldn't, it really looks rather good. I though about putting it on a basque, but can't match the silk, and don't, as you say, want it to show. So I did take the equivalent of huge darts, which effectively shaped the thing into an A-line and cut away the surplus. The thought of unpicking the quilting didn't bear thinking about - too much and very concentrated pattern, although really similar to patterns I've seen. Thanks for the help though - good to know we were thinking along the same lines. Sharon - cartridge pleating never even crossed my mind once I thought about reshaping the skirt. Something to bear in mind for the future thanks! Suzi - Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke s...@suziclarke.co.uk To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 11:55:46 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker's dummy wearing? 1770's stays, pocket hoops made of striped ticking, calico petticoat, and yards or ready made quilted silk that I am trying to wrastle into a quilted petticoat, without it adding 6 to the waist measurement. The only way it makes sense is to take a ginormous dart from waist to hem - not authentic, but then neither is ready made quilting! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] new book 1650-1800
At 18:09 30/01/2009, you wrote: JAMES OGILVIE wrote: For those who still have money in these economic times, a catalog of an exhibition at Versailles on court dress in Europe, 1650-1800, that sounds most impressive: http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll?AB~emailReview~itemno=59091custno=12840 Available March 2009 Anyone know the dates of the exhibit? It sounds as if it has not opened yet. It would be lovely to be able to see it (wish, wish). I cannot find any information about it. I know it is due to open 16th March, 2009, as someone I met in Florence is involved, but I wouldn't dream of asking her as she will be in the throes of packing and all that entails right now. (Multiply your holiday bags by 20 and you might get close, then there are customs manifests, pest control, border checks - goodness I'm glad I don't do that any more.) This is the information about the related symposium. http://veticoursymposium2009.blogspot.com/ Suzi (who could do a day trip, or two, to Paris any time, after May!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Court Pomp and Royal ? Versailles
http://www.chateauversailles.fr/en/0_Court_Pomp.php Found it at last - the exhibition information - Court Costume Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Eyelets with a buttonholer?
At 23:42 30/01/2009, you wrote: I'm thinking of buying a 1950's sewing machine with a buttonholer attachment, the kind that uses templates to make different size buttons. Some of them have templates that make round eyelets, and I'm wondering, has anyone used them for lacing eyelets on period corsets and bodices? I have a progressive hand condition, so it's important for me to keep my handsewing to a minimum, and I can't bear the idea of using grommets! Margo I have a widget that makes eyelets, but they are not as firm, on my machine, as a well made hand done one. However, I use it for the basis of a hand made one, and only have to sew about half as much as for a whole one. I have used it to make eyelets on a modern pirate shirt, but usually go round twice. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] corset for a singer
At 18:37 29/01/2009, you wrote: Hi, I have a very special question. My singing teacher asked me to sew a corset for her - she wants it as an undergarment for concerts, to make her look, I guess, more beautiful. She is a size 18-20. She would like a corset similar to the 1880s styles, but it doesn't have to be too complicated. But a proper corset with metal bones and front busk fastening and lacing etc. The point is, she needs to take a deep breath in the corset (when she breathes, her bust circumference increases up to 8cm more). And I have NO IDEA how that's going to work, because corsets are usually the same size or a bit smaller than your bust (and, certainly, your waist). The stupid thing is she has to breathe in the belly as well as in the upper ribcage (ehm, my knowledge of anatomy in English is poor, I don't know how's that king of breathing called. Simply means she will increase her bust as well as waist circumference when taking a deep breath.) Does any of you have some experience with corsets for singers? Or any ideas of where to search for information? I thought making one panel in the corset of some elastic, but that would definitely loose the sense of wearing a corset. But I think this must be possible to solve somehow, don't tell me 19th century singers wore no corsets... I also thought of trying an existing corset on her so that she can try out how she can sing, but I have no corsets in such a large size:-( Thanks for help, Zuzana Jean Hunnisett worked at Glyndebourne, a major operatic centre in England, and said some singers were happy to wear corsets, and some hated them. Your teacher is starting from a positive position, as she wants a corset. I have also worked with singers who wanted to wear corsets, and I found that making them in the normal way is perfectly satisfactory. Most opera singers breathe below and above where a corset fits, in my experience. I have also sung myself in a corset, and have had no problems. The corset dated 1878, in Period Costumes for Stage and Screen 1800-19?? by Jean Hunnisett, is a really nice corset - you just have to check the length as it sometimes comes up short. HTH Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Velvet is available
At 00:07 19/01/2009, you wrote: Oh good grief! You'd feed your body with more energy by eating the silk than wearing it. What they're describing here sound more like it'd just make your hair stand on end. the price did that for me... Denise And then YOU have to dye it - no thank you. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Vevet Seller in the U. S.
At 16:11 17/01/2009, you wrote: In looking through the colors offered, I notice that some say 100% silk and others do not. Also some appear from the photos to be distressed, and others do not. Some have a characteristic silk sheen, others--well, you get the picture. So I suspect that the seller is offering a collection of what they have been able to obtain from various wholesalers in various colors. I am tempted by some of the colors, but I would certainly obtain a swatch of the specific fabric I wanted, and test it before I bought. Jane In No VA My spy has reported back that she spoke with the very helpful Silk Baron, who said that the silks were in fact silk pile and rayon ground. As I have not heard it this way round, I assume that in fact they are a silk ground with a rayon pile, the same as is available in England. I will not be buying from the Silk Baron only because, by the time I have paid postage and VAT, I could trot up into the centre of London and actually finger the available silk velvets for myself, which would be roughly the same price. Thanks to everyone for their input. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Velvet seller in U.S.?
At 19:28 15/01/2009, you wrote: Well, I am really interested if you succeed to get a 100% silk velvet. Me and my sister import silk fabrics from China to EU and we visited several factories that were specialized in making silk velvets, but they told us they only do rayon pile and silk backing, no matter what amount of meters you offer. Another interesting issue is that if you don't buy directly from a factory, the dealer are able to tell you anything - they claim a polyester to be silk and so on. So if you're not very skilled at recognizing silk, you may be cheated. And maybe...some companies don't realize or realize too late. So, beware. We always check our fabrics for weight and silk percentage. Zuzana Thanks - you pretty much confirm what I suspected, but I'll wait for the final report from my spy on the specific seller. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Silk Velvet seller in U.S.?
Has anyone dealt with this company? I am told I can get 100% silk velvet here. http://www.silkbaron.com/silk/ Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Velvet seller in U.S.?
At 18:31 14/01/2009, you wrote: I've dealt with them for silk dupioni and taffeta. Their prices are excellent, and so is their shipping and customer service. Dupion and Taffeta I can get here, at prices that are higher, but don't involve shipping from the U.S. and the resultant customs duty on goods over £25.00. I can also get silk/rayon velvet at a similar price, but 100% silk is way more expensive which is why I was asking. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Velvet seller in U.S.?
At 19:16 14/01/2009, you wrote: Dupion and Taffeta I can get here, at prices that are higher, but don't involve shipping from the U.S. and the resultant customs duty on goods over £25.00. I can also get silk/rayon velvet at a similar price, but 100% silk is way more expensive which is why I was asking. Suzi I haven't had a reason to order the velvet yet, but I've looked at it. I'd email them and ask about it, I've always gotten a quick response from them. Thanks - I have a U.S. spy working on that aspect for me already - so much easier than doing it myself!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Material Visual Cultures of Dress in European Courts June 2009
At 15:23 13/01/2009, you wrote: FYI Thanks - I thought I'd sent you this. It's the Amsterdam one I can't get info on. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fwd: Material Visual Cultures of Dress in European Courts June 2009
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:36:29 + To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com From: Suzi Clarke s...@suziclarke.co.uk Subject: Material Visual Cultures of Dress in European Courts June 2009 At 15:23 13/01/2009, you wrote: FYI Thanks - I thought I'd sent you this. It's the Amsterdam one I can't get info on. Suzi Sorry, this was meant to be a private reply - ooops! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Striped Regency day dress fashion plate?
At 16:52 13/01/2009, you wrote: How about dotsas in polka dots (Although the polka hadn't been invented yethad it?) The only thing I can remember from the period (maybe a little earlier) is a metallic dot printed over a floral print. I have this diaphanous silk sheer that is light coffee with kinda close white polka dotsbut not much. Enough to do a sorta overdress. I was gonna make up a plain Regency dress in a robin's egg blue silk (I have lots of that) and make a sleeveless open front over-thingie out of the dot. The colors together look fantastic and the effect of the shimmering dots with the blue underneath is beautiful. I may make it up anywayeven if it's not so very accurate. I have just enough robin's egg blue silk twill (just one shade darker than the other silk) to make a Spencer for it and some coffee velvet for a bonnet. Sounds lovely. Dots won't do for me - I have all this striped silk..just begging to be made up. (Can you hear the whispers from all the other fabrics that are just dying to be made up too?) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] MEDATS Spring Conference - Henry VIII: the Clothing of a European Renaissance Monarch, 2 May 2009
I've been asked to post this for Medats Dear all, The Medieval Dress Textile Society (UK) is holding its Spring Meeting to commemorate the 500th anniversary of the accession of Henry VIII. This dress-and textile-focused meeting complements the general conference hosted at Hampton Court later in the year. Speakers will include Dr. Maria Hayward and Santina Levey. The conference is 2nd May 2009, at the Kenneth Clark Lecture Theatre, Courtauld Institute of Art, Somerset House, Strand, London WC2R 0RN. Costs are £15 members, £10 students. A booking form and more information is available at http://www.medats.org.uk/events.php,http://www.medats. org.uk/events. php, where a full programme will be posted once confirmed. It looks to be a great day, of interest to anyone involved with 16th century dress Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] MEDATS Spring Conference - Henry VIII: the Clothing of a European Renaissance Monarch, 2 May 2009
At 15:09 12/01/2009, you wrote: Wha! I want to go! Are you going? Probably, but it's awful close to when we go on the cruise. And we heard/saw Maria Hayward's little piece in Florence. I might wait and see what else is planned. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Striped Regency day dress fashion plate?
At 19:23 12/01/2009, you wrote: I have just acquired some striped silk which I want to make into a Regency day dress, to wear with a spencer. Although not technically correct, I am prepared to look at fashion plates between 1790 and 1820. However, I am unable to find stripes worn during the day between these dates. I have found German evening dresses, and in my own collection, the 1820's have many lovely striped dresses. I couldn't find any fashion plates, but here is what I did find: http://www.whitakerauction.com/index.html?Tudor_auction.htm~MainFrame - this is the link to the Tasha Tudor auction, there's a sheer woven stripe dress c1800-1810 near the bottom of Gallery 4, and a roller printed cotton day dress c1815 about half way though Gallery 12 I have the Tasha Tudor catalogue, which I had forgot - I'll look in there thanks. http://tidenstoej.natmus.dk/periode1/dragt.asp?ID=79 - it's plaid rather then striped, but it seems similar to me. I think the date is 1810, but I don't read the language, so I'm not sure. This one is a child's dress, I think, but I love the shape http://antiquesandthearts.com/webEventItems/pdf/AAW-2008-04-25/103.pdf - right hand side third row down, c1810 silk day dress (I have better pictures of this dress, if you want them, but they don't seem to be on the web anymore.) Oh, yes, please - that looks very good - that looks nice and plain at the top, with lovely fancy sleeves. http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/collection_database/the_costume_institute/dress/objectview.aspx?OID=80003313collID=8dd1=8 c1818 cotton dress A bit later than I had in mind, but I love the frills! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Christoffer_Wilhelm_Eckersberg_001.jpg 1814 Portrait of Anna Maria Magnani by Christoffer Wilhelm Eckersberg (probably depicting another roller-printed cotton dress). I'd forgotten this too http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/collection_database/the_costume_institute/dress/objectview.aspx?OID=80003474collID=8dd1=8 1795-7 dress, which may be an evening dress... I'm not sure. Wow, wish it hadn't got the fichu http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/collection_database/the_costume_institute/dress_round_gown/objectview.aspx?OID=80002273collID=8dd1=8 c1795 silk round gown - this may also be an evening dress, I'm not sure. Oh, that's brilliant - I'd forgotten that too. http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/collection_database/the_costume_institute/dress_evening/objectview.aspx?OID=80003344collID=8dd1=8 striped silk spencer, 1804-15 I've not seen that before - love it! http://www.abitiantichi.it/collezione/soprabiti/soprab21.html A striped spenser c1805 And that - oh, the ideas are flowing (mixed metaphor?) You might also look though demode's list of garments for striped dresses: http://www.demodecouture.com/realvict/1700s.html#1790 http://www.demodecouture.com/realvict/1800s.html Again, total brain freeze - I was so excited about the silk, I could only think of fashion plates! For books I would suggest looking at: _An Elegant Art_ by Edward Maeder (for the early period only, I don't think he shows dresses post 1797)but I'm sure there was at least one striped dress. _Fashion_ by the Kyoto Costume Institute _The Age of Napoleon: Costume from Revolution to Empire, 1789-1815_ by Katell Le Bourhis I have all those books - I think the Elegant Art is too early, but should have thought of the other two - thanks for the reminder. Sunny, that is brilliant - thank you so much for the time you've taken - I can really start to plan - thank goodness it's not till September! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Striped Regency day dress fashion plate?
At 00:29 13/01/2009, you wrote: http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/1810klein.jpg Have you looked here http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/ppbrokil.html No, I can never remember that site - thanks. Someone made a striped day dress http://www.darlinganddash.com/regencygreenday.html gallery http://www.demodecouture.com/galleries/regency/ a striped dress with spencer coat I really don't want other people's versions, thanks, as there is generally no authentication, but it's interesting to see them, for all that. However, I think I have enough information now to make my own plans. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Striped Regency day dress fashion plate?
At 00:12 13/01/2009, you wrote: Maybe you can find one here http://www.bibliothequedesartsdecoratifs.com/consultation2/consultation.html http://tinyurl.com/9cmnsa click on Recherche simple Termes de recherche - mode check collection Maciet check Toutes click Rechercher Trier par - date Click Tri Scroll down to date wanted. click on number and to the right look for Voir les vignettes Maciet and click on it. prints should appear and you can enlarge the pictures. I have a wee bit of problem with the enlarged pictures as I have not found the close screen button yet so I have to use the Ctrl/Alt/delete keys. the Aide key is for the zoom help. (Note: You probably will start at #13) De Thank you - I'll need some time for that - their info is usually well worth looking at. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What We Wore BBC colour film 1957 on Costume
At 05:13 11/01/2009, you wrote: In a message dated 1/10/2009 7:07:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, s...@suziclarke.co.uk writes: Oh, I'm sorry - I thought it worked like Youtube. Oh no need to apologize. Obviously, were it up to you, we'd all have accessand cake! Absolutely! I simply pass sites on - no geek here! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Striped Regency day dress fashion plate?
I have just acquired some striped silk which I want to make into a Regency day dress, to wear with a spencer. Although not technically correct, I am prepared to look at fashion plates between 1790 and 1820. However, I am unable to find stripes worn during the day between these dates. I have found German evening dresses, and in my own collection, the 1820's have many lovely striped dresses. I have looked at Jessamine's Regency Page, the fashion plate collection of Blanche Payne at ?Washington?, and of course my own collection of more than a couple if hundred. Any advance or suggestions please? Definitions include day dress, walking dress, promenade dress, but not morning dress. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Striped Regency day dress fashion plate?
At 16:07 10/01/2009, you wrote: There are several plates of striped day dresses. Last year, I did a search to find patterned dresses. There are a couple of French illustrations that show printed fabric, too. I think patterned fabrics were more common than they appear because of the difficulty of engraving stripes or a pattern for a fashion plate. These are at the office, and I will try to remember to look for them on Monday. Some of the images are from a CD collection which, unfortunately, I have misplaced at the moment. Thank you. One of the p[lates I own has a printed evening dress, which I think is also in the Blanche Payne collection, but they certainly are unusual. There is a 4000 plus collection at the Museum of London, but although they are archived, they are not, as yet, online. Hopefully one day they will be. They are accessible to researchers, but not at the moment as there is a huge building programme going on. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] What We Wore BBC colour film 1957 on Costume
Someone on LJ posted this, http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/whatwewore/5607.shtml?all=1id=5607 and I thought it deserved a wider audience. Do look at the cast list of people wearing the clothes - quite stellar! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What We Wore BBC colour film 1957 on Costume
At 19:35 10/01/2009, you wrote: In a message dated 1/10/2009 1:59:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, s...@suziclarke.co.uk writes: I thought it deserved a wider audience ** It does! But it's not available in my areaso I don't get to see it. When I clicked on that page there was a 15 minute film, sound and colour - was it not there for you? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What We Wore BBC colour film 1957 on Costume
At 20:25 10/01/2009, you wrote: In a message dated 1/10/2009 2:45:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, s...@suziclarke.co.uk writes: It does! But it's not available in my areaso I don't get to see it. When I clicked on that page there was a 15 minute film, sound and colour - was it not there for you? Same for me--I clicked the play button, and a message, not available in your area came up. Maybe because I'm not in the UK? Oh, I'm sorry - I thought it worked like Youtube. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] More black ruffs?
At 20:08 08/01/2009, you wrote: I just happened to borrow Strong's English Icon, so I thumbed through it looking for black ruffs. There aren't any all-black ruffs, but there are a few edged in black and a few more that are heavily embroidered with blackwork. I could only find three online: http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ThomasHoward1.jpg http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/FrancisSidney.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/blackmary.jpg If you'd like more pictures, email me privately and I'll see if I can get them scanned. Margaret Roe Just for information, I remember Janet Arnold thinking that the Frances Sydney painting was in fact Queen Elizabeth, citing the chair of state in the background of the painting. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress
I know there has been reams written on this list about the Gothic Fitted Dress, and I remember seeing a how to set of pictures, but when I tried to find information to pass on to a colleague, I was stumped. Anyone care to point me in the right direction? I know there is information in the archives, but I am such a klutz I can never find what I want. TIA Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
At 16:31 04/01/2009, you wrote: There are pictures of some at the Museum of Fine Arts Boston: http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=45.297submit.x=0submit.y=0 http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=45.298submit.x=0submit.y=0 Katy Katy Thank you so much - those are really, really helpful. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress
At 17:41 04/01/2009, you wrote: On Sunday 04 January 2009 12:23:11 pm Suzi Clarke wrote: I know there has been reams written on this list about the Gothic Fitted Dress, and I remember seeing a how to set of pictures, but when I tried to find information to pass on to a colleague, I was stumped. Anyone care to point me in the right direction? I know there is information in the archives, but I am such a klutz I can never find what I want. http://www.cottesimple.com/fem_silhouette/intro_fem_silh.html (This page actually walks you through two different approaches to making a GFD.) Robin Netherton's site is here. For some reason, it now requires a login and password to access the material on the GFD. http://netherton.net/robin/ Thank you - those were the pictures I remembered, and what I was looking for. I had the same problem with Robin's site. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
At 16:53 03/01/2009, you wrote: This may be superfluous, but it seems to me that there was a pretty extensive discussion about this hat and the rosette on it a few years ago. If you are interested, you can probably search the archives. Sg Thanks, but as this is a slightly jokey dress-up for a party type evening, I don't really need to go into too much detail. I did find a lovely picture of Louis Capet (Louis XVl) wearing one, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_cap) which I shall base mine on, and I believe somewhere in the collection of junk I've been given, I have a Conservative Party(rightish wing English political party) rosette in red, white and blue, which will do nicely. (And if anyone recognises it, it'll be funny in its own right!!) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
Happy New Year to all. I am being lazy, and asking for help before doing any research. My DH and I will be going to a fancy dress do (emphasis on not entirely accurate) as M. and Mme Thenardier from Les Mis. Mostly I can cobble together costumes from other stuff we have, but I would love him to wear a Phrygian cap with a rosette. Can anyone point me to a pattern, or something I can bodge from? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
At 21:47 01/01/2009, you wrote: Hello, I´ve found this one via google - don´t know, if it´s good. http://www.housebarra.com/EP/ep06/16cap.html Hanna Hanna Thank you - I can work with that shape. Catherine - the cap pattern is way too early for the time of Les Mis - 1840's I think. A version of it was worn by Marianne the symbol of the French Revolution AFAIK and came out again later in the 19th century. Thanks for the web site though - will probably come in handy for other stuff. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
At 23:00 01/01/2009, you wrote: On Thursday 01 January 2009 5:07:36 pm Suzi Clarke wrote: Catherine - the cap pattern is way too early for the time of Les Mis - 1840's I think. A version of it was worn by Marianne the symbol of the French Revolution AFAIK and came out again later in the 19th century. You're right. Sorry I missed the Les Mis reference. La Fleur de Lyse sells 18th French patterns, among other things. Perhaps the cap they have in their pattern NFH 18001 would be useful: http://pages.videotron.com/fldelyse/Patterns.html Yes, that's more like it, but as I am doing this for my DH out of my stash, I really don't want to spend money - I am mean like that - and the diagram on the site Hanna posted will do for starters - I can play with the shape from there. I have the book Suzanne Gousse etc., wrote - I should have thought of them. Thanks for the help though - I'd forgotten they did patterns. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Danish books with patterns
At 18:44 26/12/2008, you wrote: The captions are already translated into English. There are no assembly instructions in either language as I recall. There are some labels on the patterns, and if you don't speak or read Danish it would be useful to have them translated. I have a Danish/English dictionary, but still need the help of my Danish friend with some of the more sewing related terms. Suzi Fran Tania Gruning wrote: If anyone need translations, I would be more than happy to help. Don't have the books, so you would have to scan and send me the relevant pages Tania ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] regency undergarments [was: Drafting from antique garment - question]
... Also popular with costumers of this period is a slip-like undergarment with the corset-like boned bodice and an underskirt all sewn together. Sometimes the bodice of the boned lining comes down to the natural waist even though the skirt is set on at the raised level typical of the period. A sheer gown can be worn over this. ... Albert, There's a garment like this illustrated in Hunnisett (the one that includes the Regency period). I've been calling it a bodiced petticoat, and don't offhand know what Hunnissett herself calls it. The bodice is shaped more-or-less like a sports bra (with gussets and no boning) and has an ankle-length skirt attached. Two of my friends made this garment at Costume College last year, and with proper fitting it does a fabulous job of lifting the bust high enough to get that typical Regency look. I haven't read Hunnissett's notes on this garment, so don't know what historical basis she has for it, but would like to know. When Hunnisett wrote the book she had no justification for the particular pattern that she worked out. (She said the it just seemed to be the most practical solution!) However, since then, there have been examples that I have seen on E Bay and in occasional museum pictures. In any case, none of the extant garments appear, on my screen anyway, to have been boned or corded. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Translating Danish pattern instructions
At 22:17 18/12/2008, you wrote: Dear h-costume Is there anyone here who has translated the pattern instructions for this regency gown at http://tidenstoej.natmus.dk/periode1/dragt.asp?ID=8 or is able to help me with translation? What, exactly, do you want translated? I can translate the technical terms on the patterns, if that's any help, but usually the text is about the dress, not necessarily instructions on how to make. I have the series of books this pattern is taken from Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Translating Danish pattern instructions
At 22:52 18/12/2008, you wrote: Hi Suzi I'm keen to translate the text on the pdf pattern. Most of it seems pretty self-explanatory, but it is the unknown that frustrates me. I'm learning tambour embroidery and hope to replicate the design on the skirt. Does the book have any English translations? I have it on order but won't get it for a few weeks. Bye for now, I was not aware that the books were still in print - that's interesting. No, the pictures and patterns have a summary in English, and there are a few pages at the back, as I remember, but the main text is in Danish. I have had mine for many years, and generally don't worry about the text. It's late here, I'll get my copy out tomorrow some time, but I don't think you really need that much translating. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Translating Danish pattern instructions
At 22:54 18/12/2008, you wrote: Suzi, could you please tell me the name of that series of books? I must have it, it looks sooo good! As far as I was aware the books are out of print, but as Aylwen says she has one on order they may not be. My copies were from a remaindered pile in Copenhagen - a gift from a Danish friend. I'll go and find the titles tomorrow - late now. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] need a clue
At 08:38 17/12/2008, you wrote: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/eudr/ho_1995.235a%2Cb.htm# what is trimming the edges of this gown's sleeve? It is fly fringe, a handmade trim, usually from silk ribbon and thread. Apparently it used to be one of the things ladies did to keep their hands busy, like knotting. This one is very spectacular though. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ladies Clothing - gentry, c. 1503
At 13:04 11/12/2008, you wrote: Have you looked at the Tudor Effigies database http://www.tudoreffigies.co.uk/ HTH Elizabeth Unfortunately there is nothing of 1503, and only 5 images before 1520. I am well aware that the effigies do not always match their dates, usually being slightly earlier than the tomb date, but unfortunately all the ladies have gable or kennel headdresses, something I really want to avoid, as badly made ones look awful, and I will have no control over the making of these garments. Thanks anyway. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Ladies Clothing - gentry, c. 1503
Does anyone have web sites, or recommendations as to where I can find pictures for this period. One of my regular customers needs information, and it is not a period I do. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ladies Clothing - gentry, c. 1503
At 18:57 10/12/2008, you wrote: There's always the Medieval volume of Norris ducking and running. Well it's not bad for general information and sillhouettes. I sold mine! Suzi Maggie On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Anne [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I'd love to hear the suggestions - I think you may have to pick it out carefully from non-costume sources. Most books seem to skip straight from Wars of the Roses to HEnry VIII, I never found much for Henry VII's reign. JEan Suzi Clarke wrote: Does anyone have web sites, or recommendations as to where I can find pictures for this period. One of my regular customers needs information, and it is not a period I do. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Maggie Secara ~A Compendium of Common Knowledge 1558-1603 ISBN 978-0-9818401-0-9 Available at http://elizabethan.org/compendium/paperback.html or your favorite online bookseller ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ladies Clothing - gentry, c. 1503
At 18:27 10/12/2008, you wrote: What area? I've got tons from the continent, but very little (other than the occasional royals) for England. Scotland - just to be difficult, but France or England would do. Henry Vlll's sister returning to Scotland from ?France I understand. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ladies Clothing - gentry, c. 1503
At 21:01 10/12/2008, you wrote: You're mixing up the two sisters. Margaret was married to the king of Scotland. Mary(Rose) was married to the King of France but was widowed shortly after the marriage and married her real love, Charles Brandon, before Henry could arrange another political marriage for her. She returned to England with her new husband. Quite the soap opera, those Tudors! oops, so I did. It is Margaret Tudor, marrying the King Of Scotland so 1503 is the date I am looking for. However, the French connection holds, I think. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ladies Clothing - gentry, c. 1503
At 21:18 10/12/2008, you wrote: Thank you for all that help. I think it will be all a bit much for the customer. I am not making this outfit - they have an event, a one off, and are trying to make as little as possible. Bloomin' gable headdresses seem to be de rigeur at this time, and I can't see them making those somehow! I made them costumes of around 1570 for other events but they are not really suitable for quick and dirty conversions. However, I'll pass this on, with thanks again. Suzi I'll give you a quick general run-down; I haven't got it in me right now to look up all the documentation. Hopefully this'll give you a good starting point. I'm guessing you're interested in English styles, so I'll try to slant it that way, but I'll have to refer heavily to continental styles because A) they're so much better documented and B) a few years later when English fashions get easier to document, they match up reasonably well with what the Franco-Flemish were doing 10-15 years earlier. So, when I get continental, I'll try to describe what they were wearing c1488-1493. Monumental brasses will be your best resource for c1500 English fashions. They're not the most accurate source, but they're loads better than almost nothing you'll find in the portraits arena. However, Elizabeth of York's c1500 portrait shows what seems to be a pretty typical style for the era/area, even if it is in much more luxurious fabrics than your average gentlewoman would have been wearing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Elizabeth_of_York.jpg Henry the VIII's sisters, Mary Tudor--who went on to queen it in France--and Margaret Tudor, who queened Scotland, have a few illuminations floating around; they were famous beauties. (The portraits I've found of them are probably wrong for your project, though there's a painting of Margaret that's only a few years too late, and a sketch of Mary that's only a tad too French.) Catherine of Aragon has at least one great portrait from c1505, during her widowhood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Michel_Sittow_002.jpg though again, the style she's wearing is not terribly English. Stick with the brasses. If you search through google books, you'll find some transcripts of descriptions of coronations, inventories, etc from around that time. For example, here's the privy purse expenses of Elizabeth of York: http://books.google.com/books?id=p91CIAAJprintsec=frontcoverdq=%22elizabeth+of+york%22 (Sorry, this is just the first one I ran into in my bookmarks. There's lots more good stuff there. The Victorians may have been horrible costume historians in a lot of ways, but they were great at transcribing.) On to the overall style. I read one great description in a Spaniard-visits-the-Engligh-court travelogue from the mid 1500s; even though it's the wrong date, it pretty well sums up the English fashions c1500: frumpy and ill-fitting, making the women look shapeless and sloppy. Franco-Flemish high fashion in the last years of the 15th century had a well-fitted 4-panel square-necked overgown over a bust-supporting 4-panel undergown (directly descended from the GFD). The English c1500 most likely also wore a bust-supporting undergown, but rather than fitting like a glove, their overgowns tended to fit like a brown paper bag. (I'll be making sweeping generalizations here. This is not the only style nor the only way it was done. It's just the most common, stereotypical style.) For illustration purposes (but not documentation, since I don't know exactly when this is from... but it's the right style), here's a typical c1500 English outfit: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/trivick02.jpg Here's a c1504 English brass--not as detailed, but more dateable: http://www.thurrock-community.org.uk/historysoc/brasses/stiff2.jpg For the overgown, start by picturing a non-bust-supporting GFD that skims over the body but doesn't fit it closely. Give it a front placket opening down to hip level, hiding a hook-and-eyes closure. The neckline should be cut square (when you cut it square, it'll slip off the shoulders a bit when worn and no longer look square--this is the correct look) and high; up to about collarbone level. Much like the French and Flemish in the 1490s, the English c1500 sometimes put an angled-up peak at the center front of the neckline, like in that second link. A fabric guard, most often shown as black, was usually applied to the neckline and front opening. Most or all of the overgowns seem to have been lined in some type of fur, which may be part of the reason for the high frumpiness level. (Apart from the frumpiness, the overgown is very very similar to that worn in the 1490s on the continent. There are quite a lot of Franco-Flemish paintings illuminations that show it.) On the continent, they were experimenting with waist seams across the back that had pleats below, but not in England--no waist seams on this style there yet. On most of the brasses, the length of the
Re: [h-cost] Ladies Clothing - gentry, c. 1503
At 21:39 10/12/2008, you wrote: A. Thurman wrote: There's a book, Women of Distinction: Margaret of York and Margaret of Austria - not sure about M of A but M of Y died in 1503, so some of the photos might be helpful: http://books.google.com/books?id=UquEJwAACAAJdq=margaret+of+york+women+of+distinctionclient=firefox-a Also you might try looking at tomb effigies of the period in question, but others might be able to better speak to that (paging Robin Netherton?) Both effigies and brasses are plentiful in England at this point and are readily available in books. For brasses, search your available libraries for the keywords monumental brasses (good starts are the VA's Brass Rubbings and the Portfolio Plates of the Monumental Brass Society). For effigies, search under church monuments. There are fewer good collections for those, though; my own collection of effigy images is culled together from things like postcards and tourist pamphlets given out at historic churches. Thanks - so is my collection. I've passed on E.House and Melanie's information - thank goodness I'm not doing this one! Suzi Otherwise I can't help with details on this period. This is a bit past my period of specialty; I'll refer you to E House (who's already gotten there with good info, I see), and Melanie Schuessler. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pattern cutting for men's costume
At 17:19 09/12/2008, you wrote: Hi Zuzana, I will be getting the book for Christmas, as I ordered my copy along with the Arnold book from the UK. So, once I get mine opened and looked at, I will let you all know what I think of it as well. I saw this while in Florence, I think, but as I don't like using block patterns I didn't study it. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pattern cutting for men's costume
At 20:41 09/12/2008, you wrote: Oh it's so much more than patterns from old clothes. The photo section that iws half the book is, like the other JA books, a vast amount of information about how they actually made these clothes: close ups and details that, in many cases, you have never seen (and in some cases, thought of) before. If that kind of information is of interest to you, as it is to me, then seeing the pattern shapes derived from the actual garments is just frosting. MaggiRos Maggie, you misunderstood me. I have all the Janet Arnold books, and extras she gave me. Kimiko was talking about a book called Pattern Cutting for Men's Costume http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pattern-Cutting-Costume-Elizabeth-Friendship/dp/1408100061 As I said, I saw it while at the Colloquium for Janet Arnold, in Florence, but as it is mainly block patterns I decided I did not want it, as I was taught to drape my patterns by, among others, Janet herself. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pattern cutting for men's costume
At 21:09 09/12/2008, you wrote: as I was taught to drape my patterns by, among others, Janet herself. Oh, my goodness! That must have been something! Marjorie Yup! Marjorie Gilbert author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England www.marjoriegilbert.net http://historicalfictionbooks.ning.com/profile/MarjorieGilbert ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pattern cutting for men's costume
At 21:25 09/12/2008, you wrote: Oh my goodness. I am sorry. That's what I get for reading mail on a full stomach.. My apologies fro misunderstanding. MaggiRos Not a problem - mine is empty, so I'm a bit ratty - sorry! Suzi On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 20:41 09/12/2008, you wrote: Oh it's so much more than patterns from old clothes. The photo section that iws half the book is, like the other JA books, a vast amount of information about how they actually made these clothes: close ups and details that, in many cases, you have never seen (and in some cases, thought of) before. If that kind of information is of interest to you, as it is to me, then seeing the pattern shapes derived from the actual garments is just frosting. MaggiRos Maggie, you misunderstood me. I have all the Janet Arnold books, and extras she gave me. Kimiko was talking about a book called Pattern Cutting for Men's Costume http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pattern-Cutting-Costume-Elizabeth-Friendship/dp/1408100061 As I said, I saw it while at the Colloquium for Janet Arnold, in Florence, but as it is mainly block patterns I decided I did not want it, as I was taught to drape my patterns by, among others, Janet herself. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
At 15:50 30/11/2008, you wrote: Many thanks to Suzi, Kimiko, and others of this List who have clarified for my House and I just what a serger does, and what use such a machine might be for us in ourThird Age living-history hobby. From your comments I suspect a serger might be a substantial time-saver - since all of the garb we make is only to pass the 10-foot Rule [ if it looks OK from 10 feet away, that's good enough - so using a serger on interior seams sound good to us], - we have so many projects we wish to accomplish in the limited time budgets ofour declining years that we have given-up the idea of trying for museum-replica quality in our equipment. Tnhaks once again,  Matthew Baker [aka Julian Wilson in 2008] In that case, see if you can find a second hand industrial Singer or Jones or Bernina. They are sturdier that those made for the domestic market and although tricky to thread sometimes, seem to do a better job, in my opinion. I have a second hand 3 thread Singer industrial I bought over 20 years ago, and the only time it had to be fixed was when I sewed over a pin and threw the timing off and blunted the blade that cuts the fabric. Three threads gives you a finished edge, by the way, and is the basic minimum - in my opinion you really don't need anything with more threads, if all you want to do is finish edges. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
At 21:21 30/11/2008, you wrote: Suzi, Just a point of note - If you are to make impeccably accurate costumes of a pre-industrial period then there were no overlockers (sergers), but I would still use it to make good quality clothing. :) I did actually make that point in my comment A serger is what we in England call an overlocker. If you are making authentic method clothing you do not need one. It stitches over the edge of your fabric, usually cutting off any surplus fabric outside the stitch line and leaving a neat edge. You will find such an edge on most seams of most modern garments. The over edge stitch can also be done by hand, a more authentic solution for a period garment. The idea is no neaten the edge and prevent it from fraying. One function I find my overlocker is really useful for is rolled hems were rolled hems used on clothing prior to 1901? Not my overlocker - it simply overlocks - no fancy finishes. My comments to the gentleman in Jersey were based on the fact that they do not have the time or the expertise to finish their costumes, which I believe are WOTR period, and he thought it would be useful, even though not historically accurate, to have one. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Women in armor
At 08:54 29/11/2008, you wrote: How about good old Joan http://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=1869579imgloc=17-1741-MZX3D00Z.jpgimgwidth=670imgheight=894sc=Falsect=Ingres,%20Jean-Auguste-Dominique%20Mary%20Evans%20PODcw=20ch=20 â« Chiara Francesca -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 10:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Women in armor Hi all, I was wondering if anyone here collects pictures of women in armor? I'm thinking of making a suit for a doll, so fantasy or Saintswear is perfectly fine, from any European period. I know there are a couple of Roman de la Rose manuscripts that have pictures of a woman in armor, though I've never found out what her story is. Any others? And what would be a good book to use for a source for Gothic or Renaissance armor? Thanks in advance, Tea Rose This seems to default to Allposters - you have to type in Joan of Arc in the search box. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
At 11:28 29/11/2008, you wrote: Gentles of the Historic costume List, just for the education of my House, who are still muddling along making medieval garb and other fabric items, using a collection of fully-serviced, secondhand but older [i.e. - no computers] domestic sewing machines, -  would any Gentle of the List explain to us [ and other beginners similarly ignorant] what is the difference between a serger and a normal domestic machine; - and what are the advantages of having a serger for use in the making of replica historical fabric items? I have done an internet search - but - due to my online ineptitude, I have no doubt, - have not found any answers we can readily understand. with thanks for your clarifications, Lord Matthew Baker, of the SCA-[UK] A serger is what we in England call an overlocker. If you are making authentic method clothing you do not need one. It stitches over the edge of your fabric, usually cutting off any surplus fabric outside the stitch line and leaving a neat edge. You will find such an edge on most seams of most modern garments. The over edge stitch can also be done by hand, a more authentic solution for a period garment. The idea is no neaten the edge and prevent it from fraying. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Which end of the thread?
At 23:11 23/11/2008, you wrote: I don't know if it damages the thread, but I know that watching the way the twist goes into the needle means there is less knotting and frustration when I'm embroidering with silk. alex On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Cynthia J Ley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Go with the grain of the thread. Run your fingers down the thread one way, then down the other way. The path of least resistance is the grain. Going against the grain can damage the thread! Arlys On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:25:22 - Viv Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is not exactly historical but it is about hand-sewing, so... I have always thought that you thread the end that comes off the spool first through the needle. But today I was reading one of those 'useful hints' books which said you should thread the other end first to prevent knots! Any thoughts? Viv. I have to say that I have tried both ways, and if the thread is going to knot, it knots, and neither way is any better! But then that's me and the thread I use - cotton, not polyester. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Advice on books available from Amazon.com
At 06:48 21/11/2008, you wrote: G'Day all, Does anyone have any comments on the following books: 60 Civil War-Era Fashion Patterns by Kristina Seleshanko AKA Kristina Harris - worth having Corsets and Crinolines by Norah Waugh - worth having Costume in Detail: 1730-1930 by Nancy Bradfield - worth having After a Fashion: How to Reproduce, Restore, and Wear Vintage Styles by Frances Grimble and Deborah Kuhn Probably worth having but not for me Nineteenth-Century Costume and Fashion by Herbert Norris and Oswald Curtis - much of Norris's research is now considered out of date and not reliable. I am interested in adding these and a few more later on to my library and making a few items where patterns are present. Thanks Sidney This is my personal opinion only, and others may disagree. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Trim question
At 11:55 20/11/2008, you wrote: I am looking for a metallic gold fringe about 1.25 long that would have been used on a gown in 1812. I'm also looking for a matching gold braid about 1/8 wide. If the gown was made in the UK would this trim be silk or cotton? Bye, Aylwen In all probability it would have been gold fringe. Gold and silver thread was used for embroidery, usually a flat strip wound round a core of silk, often yellow/gold in colour. Gold and silver bullion was used to make fringe, and as far as I know there is no reason to suppose that this would not have been used on a dress of 1812. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 2 questions, one 18th, one 19th
At 03:59 20/11/2008, you wrote: I went to Passamaneria Valmar in Florence last week and it was wonderful. They told me they will do mail order. Their email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] and the website is www.valmar-florence.com I sure smoked my poor old Visa there :) Anne I can't get into the site, past the home page. Am I doing something wrong - I am trying to open the page that appears to be the catalogue page? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Trim question
At 20:53 20/11/2008, you wrote: Suzi: You can still find bullion braid and fringe from certain suppliers.? It's used a lot in theatrical costumes and would look spectacular on your dress.? Costume houses or theatre groups in the UK?could probably help you find a source there.? Sometimes military supply?companies also carry it. Cheryl I think you have misunderstood. Aylwen, the original poster of this query, lives in Australia, and doesn't have access herself to braid shops in London which I can visit. I know about braids and bullion, as I have bought them here in England for years for my costume making business. Unfortunately I am currently 6 weeks behind with my current work, with an ongoing medical problem, so cannot volunteer my services as a buyer. You will find a list of English braid and trim suppliers on my web site. http://www.suziclarke.co.uk/links.php ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 2 questions, one 18th, one 19th
At 20:23 19/11/2008, you wrote: Hello - I'm trying to gather materials to make an 18th century gown. Does anyone know where I can find fly fringe? It's the type of trim on this gown, though hard to see: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/objectid/O74093 This is similar, but not as fluffy as real fly trim. http://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/Product.aspx/Braids!6044 These are very effective at a couple of feet away. http://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/Product.aspx/Braids!6019 http://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/Product.aspx/Braids!6018 http://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/default.aspx Also, I'm working on a semi-replica of this gown: http://www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/en/collection/artifacts/M982.20.1section=196 I found some of this trim at the local Joanns but can't decide if it is workable for the trim on this gown. The trim on the hem looks like it is stitched on but the trim on the bodice looks like it is thread work. Stitch it well down on top of ribbon or what. Ideas? The description says bobbin lace and chenille embroidery. Your gimp trim http://www.mjtrim.com/Catalog/Product/66/00416/00416.aspx feels too solid and shiny to me - especially if it's the same as some I have. It is much more Victorian in style to my mind. Here is chenille trim - irritating, as it wasn't there when I was looking earlier in the year. http://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/Product.aspx/Braids!225 Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sharpe's Rifles
At 16:47 18/11/2008, you wrote: Yes, the stuff that Sharpe himself wore. I think this might have to doo with her taste in actors myself, but I don't think I can argue about that particular actor :) . I suggest you try here. http://www.napoleonicassociation.org/home/ Members have been involved as extras in filming the series, and the research you need may be here too - I don't have time to check myself. Suzi On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Kate Bunting [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Jordana, Is your friend interested in the Rifle Brigade uniform as worn by Sharpe himself, or in men's costumes of the Napoleonic Wars period in general? (To the person who suggested Zulu - that battle took place in 1879, so it's actually around 70 years later than the Peninsular War in which most of the Sharpe books and films are set!) Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Titania 1935 costume construction?
At 19:19 18/11/2008, you wrote: It looks like rayon or silk chainette fringe with possibly metalic thread interwoven. Or just rayon. http://www.alibaba.com/buyofferdetail/100733037/Chainette_Fringe_By_The_Spoo l.html http://tinyurl.com/6rm8vd -Original Message- Yeah, it does look like that in the stills, but it behaves rather oddly when in motion. Found one clip online which shows the costume just a bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGYghQtsumoNR=1 At 1:57, she comes from the left sadly, that's only about 1 second of movement. I'm probably way off, but it looks like strips of cellophane to me - easy to cut fringe on the edges of a sheet of it, cut a hole it the top and wear it like a poncho - she's not still so it doesn't matter about accuracy of cutting. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Houppelande fastening question
At 11:49 15/11/2008, you wrote: Hi, I'm about to do a short version of houppelande or burgundian-style men's doublet, however you call it. The style seen on this picture: http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/1468_claricedegasconne.jpg My question is, are the pleats sewn fixed together or are they just folded into the waistband? I think they must be fixed somehow because the pleats are always so regular, but I'm absolutely unable to figure out where would be the fastening and how exactly would it work. In this picture, it looks as the fastening was in the back, but it's very unclear to see. http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/5435/img7348wr5.jpg I've searched some books on this topic but I never found a satisfying answer. Adrien Harmand talks about fixing the pleats, but as my French is so bad, I didn't figure out whether she said something about the fastening. http://www.florentine-persona.com/Reviews/review_birbari.html In this book there is a picture of a man lying on the ground, with his houpplande, for want of a better description, lying open under him. It is clear that the pleats are stitched to a band which is at the waist, and which, in my opinion, appears to have no fastening. The belt worn over such a garment would probably be sufficient to hold it fastened. However, it could be hooked closed, or tied with points. Although the book contains Italian pictures only, the garments are very similar, and I have used the internal belt system satisfactorily on them for Northern European clothing. I have not seen anything that fastened at the back, and I wonder if your picture is showing a seam, decorated with ?braid? rather than an opening? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] book is confirmed!!!
At 15:18 31/10/2008, you wrote: I just got my email from Amazon that my book is on its way!! Greetings from Amazon.co.uk, We thought you would like to know that the following item has been sent to: using Royal Mail. Patterns of Fashion 4: The... £15.00 Happy Happy!! ⫠Chiara Francesca ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Finally mine is on its way too - what do you bet it arrives after we leave for Florence? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Slipper and the Rose
At 13:02 25/10/2008, you wrote: Dear H-Costume, I have been doing research on my favourite film 'The Slipper and the Rose'. The lady who designed the dresses for the ball gown in 'The Slipper and the Rose' is an award winning costume designer and I have been trying to look for her work she did for the film and finding the dressses she designed. I was wondering if you would have more information on this. Sarah ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume A large number of the ladies' costumes were made by Jean Hunnisett for Julie Head. These include those for Margaret Lockwood, and for the Princesses who turned up to be prospective brides. The costumes for Richard Chamberlain were made by Charles Alty. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Slipper and the Rose
At 14:36 25/10/2008, you wrote: Thank you, may I ask how you found that out? sarah From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 25 October, 2008 14:20:50 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Slipper and the Rose At 13:02 25/10/2008, you wrote: Dear H-Costume, I have been doing research on my favourite film 'The Slipper and the Rose'.àThe lady who designed the dresses for the ball gown in 'The Slipper and the Rose' is an award winning costume designer andà I have been trying to look for her work she did for the film and finding the dressses she designed. I was wondering if you would have more information on this. Sarah ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/m ailman/listinfo/h-costume A large number of the ladies' costumes were made by Jean Hunnisett for Julie Head. These include those for Margaret Lockwood, and for the Princesses who turned up to be prospective brides. The costumes for Richard Chamberlain were made by Charles Alty. Suzi ___ h- I am very old, and knew Jean Hunnisett and Charles Alty. Jean was my Tutor at college, and I worked with Charles on a show in London's West End. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Slipper and the Rose
At 14:52 25/10/2008, you wrote: So, will I be able to find the actual ctostumes from the film with the names you have provided me? sarah From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 25 October, 2008 14:46:05 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Slipper and the Rose At 14:36 25/10/2008, you wrote: Thank you, may I ask how you found that out? sarah From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 25 October, 2008 14:20:50 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Slipper and the Rose At 13:02 25/10/2008, you wrote: Dear H-Costume, I have been doing research on my favourite film 'The Slipper and the Rose'.ÃàThe lady who designed the dressses for the ball gown in 'The Slipper and the Rose' is an award winning costume designer andà I have beenn trying to look for her work she did for the film and finding the dressses she designed. I was wondering if you would have more information on this. Sarah ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra .com/m ailman/listinfo/h-costume A large number of the ladies' costumes were made by Jean Hunnisettàfor Julie Head. These include those for Margaret Lockwood, and for the Princesses who turned up to be prospective brides. The costumes for Richard Chamberlain were made by Charles Alty. Suzi ___ h- I am very old, and knew Jean Hunnisett and Charles Alty. Jean was my Tutor at college, and I worked with Charles on a show in London's West End. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Sarah There is no point in looking them up on the Internet, as there is virtually no information, and no pictures that I can find of the costumes. I can't find anything, anyway. Good luck with your search. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What to see in the UK
At 05:09 02/10/2008, you wrote: Hello everyone, I'm in the early planning stages of a Holliday to the UK about this time next year and I'm trying to work out what I should visit, I'm spending a week in London with friends and after that point I'm planning to spend another 2 or 3 weeks around the UK Ireland. the London part of my trip is fairly firmly planned but for the rest of the UK Ireland I've only got Bath, Stratford on Avon, Warwick Castle, and Hampton Court definitely on my list so far, so what else would you suggest for a costumer and Tudor history nut? Elizabeth --- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra, Australia http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/ ___ Platt Hall, Manchester has a costume collection, usually on display, but with all collections in the U.K. it is wise to check on opening times - collections are being closed, either permanently or for refurbishment, all the time. Kentwell, in Suffolk, has living history events, Tudor in date in the main, but again, depends on the time of year. Tudor clothing on display in the provinces is very rare, and there are not that many other collections - I cannot remember the name of one in Wales, used to be the Snowshill Collection - maybe if you googled Snowshill you might find it? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corsetry issues (was Looking for bad examples)
At 23:12 02/10/2008, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, sorry to be Devil's advocate; I know some people claim a medical problem when they just don't want to wear a certain thing, and it's not up to someone else to insist they can. But what about people who can't take the pressure of stays / corset? What are they to do? Which makes me curious. What actual medical issues have people encountered that really _do_ mean someone can't wear a corset? I'm sure it does happen -- and it seems to me that having some idea of what really are the issues that cause problems might help dressmakers decide whether to (1) attempt to exercise more tactful persuasion, (2) devise some sort of work-around, or (3) do the best they can to make a nice looking garment without corsetry. Offhand, I can think of two issues where any kind of corsetry or stiffening can be a problem. One is for people in wheelchairs: if they are to wear a corset at all, it must need to be designed for sitting rather than standing, and I can imagine that for someone whow has limited mobility anyway, not being able to bend freely at the waist could make some necessary movements very difficult. I also have a friend who finds that a normal 16th-century corset and fitted gown cause too much of the weight of the skirt to be carried by her hips and lower back, which she finds very painful. She does much better with something where most of the weight of the dress hangs from the shoulders (loose gowns, for instance, although she can also wear a fitted gown with a few bones but not a full corset). In her case, the medical problem is nerve damage. Others? My friend had an operation for lung cancer, which meant access from her back through the ribs, and cannot bear to be restricted. Possibly people who have had similar operations, maybe for breast cancer or similar? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Designers questions/Lucile
At 21:23 03/09/2008, you wrote: I am working on history of fashion designers from the early 20th Century and have a few questions. Paquin: I have that Mme Paquin business was from 1891-1956. Does anyone know her first name? I can't find it in my resources. Also I have come across some French images in 1919 for a Joseph Paquin. Would Joseph be a relative working under Mme Paquin's label or house? Lady Duff Gordon: Did she go by several names. I have in 1907 an illustrator and designer named Lucy and in the 1910s Lucille. Could this be Lady Duff Gordon? This one I know - yes Lucille was Lady Duff Gordon. Lucy Christiana, Lady Duff Gordon (née Sutherland) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/June_13June 13, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/18631863 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/April_20April 20, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/19351935) was a leading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/Fashion_designfashion designer in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, best known as Lucile, her professional name. She opened branches of her London http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/Couturecouture house in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/ParisParis, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/New_York_CityNew York City and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/ChicagoChicago, dressing high society, the stage and early silent cinema[1]. Lucy Duff Gordon is also remembered as a survivor of the sinking of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/RMS_TitanicRMS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/RMS_TitanicTitanic in 1912, and as the losing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/Party_(law)party in the precedent-setting 1917 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/Contractcontract law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/Legal_casecase of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/Wood_v._Lucy,_Lady_Duff-GordonWood v. Lucy, Lady Duff-Gordon, in which Judge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//wiki/Benjamin_N._CardozoBenjamin N. Cardozo wrote the opinion for New York's highest court, the New York Court of Appeals[2] From Wikipedia, but also via, in less detail my tutor at the London College of Fashion some years ago. The others I can't help with. Suzi Can anyone suggest a book that would include lesser known designers from pre-1930s? I have a lot of designer images without an information about their business. For example: Womenwear: Lewis 1910s, Bernard 1910s, Klein 1910s, Nicole Groult, and Germaine 1900s-1920s. Etienne Drian, 1900s-1910s, I have info that he was an illustrator but I have images from several magazines that refer to him as a fashion designer. I have a small paragraph in one of my books about him. Menswear: Kriegck 1920s, Larsen 1920s Milliner: Cora Marson, Camille Roger 1910s-1920s Hair Designs: Emile 1920s This is just a few of the designers that I need information. I actually have about 100 designers with lots of images and no background information to go online. I started this project to shed light on designers so that people would know other designers were important that time seems to have forgotten. I guess the fashion history books have forgotten them too. I would at least like to provide some career highlights for each designer. I am revamping my Designers of Their Time website, http://www.costumegallery.com/Designers/ . I am about 2/3 finished with the website's makeover. Now visitors can click on the designer names and go to their pages and view career highlights and thumbnail images in our collection. Each designer's page has a beautiful background with their fashion illustrations. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeslideshows.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hose lining
At 18:20 31/07/2008, you wrote: Some good 15th century stuff here. http://www.historiclife.com/pdf/KASF2008/15thCenturyArcher.pdf The hosen start on page 15. Very interesting site - thanks for posting. Suzi On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 30, 2008, at 2:47 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not aware of any real research into hosen and linings from earlier than the 16th century. I'm not aware of any extant hosen (other than the buskins in Canturbury Cathedral, obviusly, but they're 12th century (offhand)). snip All this is assuming that you mean joined hose of course. In terms of joined hose, I've only cataloged one pair earlier than the 16th century -- I don't have my full notes in front of me at the moment, but they're in one of the German museum photo collections and are listed as 15th c. While the two legs are joined at the waistband, they aren't joined across the seat. The photo doesn't appear to show a lining, but I don't know what the preservation conditions were -- a linen lining might be lost under many conditions where the main fabric was preserved. On the larger question of extant hose -- if we include anything from buskins on up -- I have a couple dozen items in my current catalog from the general 8-15th century period. About half of them are ecclesiastical in origin, but during that period they seem to be roughly similar in cut to the secular garments. Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Maggie Secara ~A Compendium of Common Knowledge 1558-1603 ISBN 978-0-9818401-0-9 Available at http://elizabethan.org/compendium/paperback. CANADIAN readers may want to use http://www.amazon.ca/Compendium-Common-Knowledge-1558-1603/dp/0981840108 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking for Amsterdam museums events
At 21:37 26/07/2008, you wrote: Ladies Gents, H-costume archives doesnt have much on this question, so I'll pose it directly: What's to do in Amsterdam nearby? I'm going to be in Amsterdam for a vacation next week and maybe a bit after, and as usual I'm looking for ideas of where to go with an extended family group. I'm mostly in to high fashion historic costuming, social dance history from the early Renn up to and including the 19th century. We're also interested in more than just wearable stuff: castles, living history events. My husband, bro-in-law, sis in law I are all engineers and some of the teenage nephews are headed that way so ships, airplanes, how a wind mill works, science tech museums are good fun. If you have any ideas for family friendly events (the family runs ages 10-70+), we'd like those, too. We'll have cars, so sites 1-2 hrs out of town are also accessible. Got any great suggestions? Got any out there suggestions? Thanks for the help, --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's a very long time since I was in Amsterdam, but the city itself is walkable if you are fit and healthy - mostly flat. Most people travel by bike or by tram(?). The Rijksmuseum is one of the great museums of the Western world. I saw nowhere near a 10th of it I think. They have an excellent zoo, and somewhere near, there are, I believe, diamond cutting demonstrations. (And of course there is the Red Light district, but I think they have toned down the area!) Best I can do, I'm afraid. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] crepines?
At 17:35 04/07/2008, you wrote: Me again! It seems to be also a coif of some sort. It's also written crespine. I don't know if we have the same crépine as the one you're looking for, but in French, that's what it means. However... logically, it comes from crêpe, or the verb crêper, which can mean to ruffle or pleat in some instances, so I don't think it would be far-fetched to think it could mean a crinoline or something of the kind. I wish I had dictionaries with me here! It does not appear in my French-English dictionary, which I admit is not comprehensive. Bjarne I assume you have looked in Danish dictionaries? I can't find my Danish-English dictionary right now - I suspect it's hiding under some pocket hoops. Suzi Good luck! Audrey On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Audrey Bergeron-Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All right, I knew I'd seen crépine somewhere... In French, it's usually used for the hairnet worn under veils and hair bands in the Middle Ages. Doesn't mean it's not used for something else, but that's the common meaning. I'll search some more... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Spanish gown
At 04:33 29/06/2008, you wrote: It has a bit of a curve to the bottom. You're right, it has! I just found the very last pattern in Alcega, on the folded sheet... Woman's silk skirt and bodice with full-length pointed sleeve Sounds like I hit the jackpot! I can't make sense of the sleeve pattern though... I think I'll have to make a small paper mockup. I'll let you know how it turns out! When you make up the narrow, inner sleeve, you might like to know that the inner seam, the one that runs inside the elbow, is whipped, on the outside, with a fairly hefty gold thread. I saw this painting somewhere, took a photo of the sleeve, but cannot now find it. It was very unusual, I thought. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Headwear book suggestions
At 15:09 29/06/2008, you wrote: I have an early edition of this book from oh umteen years ago now...and I Hoope some of the problems have been fixed. I have a lot of prolems with the patterns matching up and ended upi having to redraft curve and things myself inorder to make them work... but it was a great book for ideas. Bambi Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL From the Neck Up I have also had problems with this book - the text and instructions are fine, but I struggled with the patterns, and in fact think that some of them are just not made the way I would do them. Suzi I am made for great things by GOD and walk with Pride Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 900ad (please correct me if i have the date wrong!) --- On Sat, 6/28/08, Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Headwear book suggestions To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 4:59 PM Hi Zuzana, Are you looking for books on millinery making in general? If so I suggest From the Neck Up, which you can get at http://www.hatbook.com/ . If you are looking for a book just on medieval and renaissance hats in general, I've yet to find one myself, so I too would love to know of any books on the subject. The Tudor Tailor book does have a few patterns for medieval and Elizabethan hats, hoods, and coifs, along with other clothing patterns and info. The only hat focused stuff I've yet to find are usually people's bad interpretations of any particular styles (ie visor French Hoods), or are hand redrawn images of people's portraits (ie: Wilcox's The Mode in Hats and Headdress, which is usually more expensive than I am willing to pay for redrawings.) The other options have been picking up various hat patterns from those who do them well, such as Lynn McMasters' patterns http://www.lynnmcmasters.com/. I've also found a few places on the 'net, such as Cynthia Virtues site on medieval hats (and other stuff): http://www.virtue.to/articles/ If you, or anyone else knows a good book on medieval and renaissance hats, I would love to know. Kimiko --- On Sat, 6/28/08, Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What book would you suggest? Or books, if I wanted one for theory and one for recreating and constructing techniques? I found some useful tips in the Medieval tailor's assistant, but that's about it. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Seeking contact near Bakewell
At 19:57 22/06/2008, you wrote: Do we have any listmembers around Bakewell (England)? Or perhaps someone has a good photo of the effigy of George Vernon and his two wives at All Saints' Church? One of my authors needs to confirm a costume detail of the wives' headdress that we think is misrepresented in a book. (Yes, between us we've already been all over the 'net and in multiple volumes on church monuments.) Thanks... --Robin Have you tried contacting the Tudor Tailor people, Ninya Mikhaila and Jane - something-Davis? They have been photographing and annotating effigies in churches. There is a web site online with their currently published pictures, of which I do not have a record, unfortunately. However, they may also have unpublished documentation. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Photos of Georgian/Regency dresses
At 15:36 19/06/2008, you wrote: I believe the last dress pictures, the one with the pink buttons is in Janet Arnold (Patterns of Fashion vol. I, p.58) Katy I believe Berrington Hall now contains what was the Snowshill Collection of Charles Wade. This was moved from one National Trust property, Snowshill, to another, which had more suitable premises. It would be wonderful if we could all see all of the collection. Much of it is drawn in Costume in Detail by Nancy Bradfield. Just thought y'all would like to know that useless piece of information. And thanks for sharing. Suzi On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Mary + Doug Piero Carey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This website got mentioned on another list I subscribe to, and I thought some of you might like to see it. http://www.annegracie.com/writing/costumepage.htm I had no idea bodices could be arranged that way! Your fascinated, Mary Piero Carey ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] How to remove smells from fur?
At 16:36 16/06/2008, you wrote: Dawn wrote: What kind of fur is it? And what kind of lining? I haven't a clue on the fur, it *might* be a dyed rabbit, but I don't know. The lining is poly and nasty. I think most of the smell is coming from it. I'll try removing it and airing it out well. If that fails, I'll take it in to get it professionally cleaned. When I was *much* younger, in the early 50's my grandma showed me how to clean fur using clean white breadcrumbs from an uncut loaf. It worked but was boring to do. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] London public library
At 09:16 14/06/2008, you wrote: Hi, I'll be visiting London in August and I hope I'll finally get to some library or bookshop to look at all the books I've only read about at amazon or on this list. I don't really expect to buy a lot of things, maybe some books that are hard to get or some second hand costume books (any good shops?). I just want to see the books to make myself a list what to buy later, as I am a poor student:-DD Is there any large public library or a library where most of the costume books are to be found? Thanks for any tips, Zuzana Although I live in London I have absolutely no idea where to find second hand books, except on line. The only book shop that sells costume books for certain is R.D. Franks, (http://www.rdfranks.co.uk/) and they are a specialist fashion trade book shop, so there is a lot of modern tailoring/fashion student orientated content. (I was disappointed when I went last.) As for public libraries, again, I have absolutely no idea - each area of London has several local libraries, and you may or may not be lucky. Sorry not to be more helpful. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] London public library
At 12:26 14/06/2008, you wrote: What about Waterstones? I got a lot there last time i were in London. As i recall it its in a street next to Oxford Street? I got both costume related and embroidery related books there, and i thoaght they had a nice collection. That always depends on the stocking policy of the manager - sometimes you get lucky - I haven't!! Suzi Bjarne - Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] London public library At 09:16 14/06/2008, you wrote: Hi, I'll be visiting London in August and I hope I'll finally get to some library or bookshop to look at all the books I've only read about at amazon or on this list. I don't really expect to buy a lot of things, maybe some books that are hard to get or some second hand costume books (any good shops?). I just want to see the books to make myself a list what to buy later, as I am a poor student:-DD Is there any large public library or a library where most of the costume books are to be found? Thanks for any tips, Zuzana Although I live in London I have absolutely no idea where to find second hand books, except on line. The only book shop that sells costume books for certain is R.D. Franks, (http://www.rdfranks.co.uk/) and they are a specialist fashion trade book shop, so there is a lot of modern tailoring/fashion student orientated content. (I was disappointed when I went last.) As for public libraries, again, I have absolutely no idea - each area of London has several local libraries, and you may or may not be lucky. Sorry not to be more helpful. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] London public library
At 13:11 14/06/2008, you wrote: Well, last time I was in London I had just one day - Saturday, and the R.D.Franks bookshop was not open and then I was probably late to get to the largest London bookshop on Piccadilly:-( All other bookshops I visited (Charing Cross rd etc.) had only a small collection of costume books. The best place to buy such books was the VA museum shop. But I thought there must be another place with many costume books? There should be at least one larger library, or art-oriented library... We have one central library in Prague where you can find almost any Czech book, so I thought there will be one in London, too? Zuzana Not that I know of, and I have lived in London since 1971. And I'm told that my personal library is better than most of the colleges' libraries - and they teach costume! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] London public library
At 14:51 14/06/2008, you wrote: Ha! I found the VA museum has a library or what - The national Art library? I'm searching the catalogue and it seems they have most books I'd like to look at. They say it's situated in the VA museum...I hope they would let me in:-) Zuzana It used to be such a pain getting a reader's ticket that I forgot about it. Haven't used it for 25 years, so I hope it has changed for the better. You used to have to wait such ages to get the books you wanted too, I never thought of checking out books I wanted to buy. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] A Fete at Bermondsey-for all the Elizabethan costumers
At 19:27 10/06/2008, you wrote: I thought you'd all like to see what has to be the best version of this painting EVER available made available, now at Wikimedia Commons. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...1569.pnghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Joris_Hoefnagel_Fete_at_Bermondsey_c_1569.png commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...1569.jpghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Joris_Hoefnagel_Fete_at_Bermondsey_c_1569.jpg Back-story: I purchased a 10x14 giclee print (size within the white border) from AllPosters.com and had it copied at a very good pre-press service here in Hollywood. My book designer, Dick Margulis, worked some magic on it for the Compendium cover. Then my webmistress, Kate, compressed it further and made it available to the world. I recommend using the png version for detailed examination.The jpg version will fit nicely on a desktop. Enjoy! MaggiRos Thank you so much. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Can you help me with this costume?now Worth Gown
At 03:05 02/06/2008, you wrote: You could take the track of being an 1830s person doing a fancy dress costume, the lines of your gown could give the impression of a restoration era costume. You could add appropriate to the period trims to your current gown to make it look restoraion-esque. Here's an 1890s example from the MFA in Boston: it is: Woman's Evening Dress in 2 parts French, about 1895 Maker: House of Worth Silk and machine-made cotton lace A dress in two parts, of gold colored satin, designed in the style of the mid-17th century Museum of Fine Arts, Boston Gift of Mrs. J. D. Cameron Bradley, 1950 Accession number: 50.3142a http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?recview=trueid=65576coll_keywords=coll_accession=coll_name=dresscoll_artist=coll_place=coll_medium=silkcoll_culture=coll_classification=coll_credit=coll_provenance=coll_location=coll_has_images=1coll_on_view=coll_sort=2coll_sort_order=0coll_view=0coll_package=0coll_start=241 I have more detailed pictures of it form an exhibition but not sure I can find them. Katy Please allow me a moment's brag! I have a Worth bodice, in not brilliant condition, which is exactly the same as this, except for the sleeves, and the pattern on the fabric. The cut is identical, the fabric the same colour but with a large lily type pattern, but the sleeves were probably balloon ish in shape - the chiffon inner is rather shredded, but I have never been able to work out the sleeve properly. It was bought by a friend for the lace, which she still has, and which is identical. However she didn't want the bodice (!) and I was the lucky recipient!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
At 18:58 01/06/2008, you wrote: Don't nurses wear veils in the UK? I remember from several movies... Monica Nurses don't wear actual veils, but caps, some of which are very, very elaborate. St. Thomas's sisters used to wear a cap called a Nightingale, which was a nightmare to fold and starch. Some Matrons seem to have worn veil-like headdresses, and used to march along corridors like ships in full sail. Nuns still wear veils here, but fairly simple, going by the nuns from the place just off Oxford Street, In London's West End. Suzi In a message dated 5/31/2008 10:52:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think nurse's caps were more of a professional symbol, though. I wonder how nun's veils play into this. Sisters of mercy, y'know. Many nuns were nurses y'know, from the beginning. **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch Cooking with Tyler Florence on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?NCID=aolfod000302) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
At 18:22 31/05/2008, you wrote: I would think that a nurse would probably have worn something to identify her profession from a maid or servant. What about the BBC series upstairs/downstairs (this might be to late) or did they have the sterio type uniforms? There should be several BBC series that show maids in uniforms. -Original Message- It's not quite 1840s but here's a fashion plate from 1852 showing a nurse http://www.marquise.de/en/1800/pics/1852_4.shtml (presumably a nurse would wear similar clothes to a maid) I think a dark coloured wool in a somewhat conservative cut (nobody likes their servants dressing above their station) would be the most sensible style for somebody who is doing potentially messy work (unless it was so messy you would want a cotton wash dress) a cap was a badge of servitude for many years after other women had abandoned them (even into the early 20th century you see maids and waitresses in restaurants wearing some sort of remnant of a cap on their heads). Clean, starched, white aprons were also important for female servants when they were 'on display' in a sense (e.g. when answering the door or serving visitors) as another badge of servitude it showed their status and that they hadn't been doing any messy work (or at least not recently). I know this is later than your period, but Isabella Beeton's book of household management outlines the duties of various servants and sometimes includes references to clothing http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/beeton/isabella/household/chapter41.h tml You may also find images of servants in the background in some royal portraits http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/category.asp?category=AAPICTURES; row=0 HTH Elizabeth The fashion plate is not actually of a nurse, but a nursemaid, and as such is not the same as a household servant. She ranks alongside a lady's maid, and although she is wearing dark clothing, was not expected to wear uniform. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Occupational-Costume-England-Eleventh-Century/dp/B00166AA20/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1212255187sr=1-8 This should have the information you require. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
At 18:28 31/05/2008, you wrote: This period is before Florence Nightingale gave nursing it's prestige. Before her work in the Crimean War, nursing was not a particularly skilled or important job- most women did it more or less by default. I doubt there would have been an identifiable uniform for a nurse in the 1840's. During the Crimean War nurses at Scutari did not wear uniforms, as you say. They wore clean white aprons as a sign of their profession, which was not considered respectable, in most places. (A new biography on her has just been shown on British TV, which, of course I missed, but there were articles in several papers/magazines.) Uniforms were, I believe a later innovation, when the Nightingale School was instituted at St. Thomas's Hospital in London, when Miss Nightingale returned from the Crimea. Suzi Karen Seamstrix -- otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would think that a nurse would probably have worn something to identify her profession from a maid or servant. What about the BBC series upstairs/downstairs (this might be to late) or did they have the sterio type uniforms? There should be several BBC series that show maids in uniforms. -Original Message- It's not quite 1840s but here's a fashion plate from 1852 showing a nurse http://www.marquise.de/en/1800/pics/1852_4.shtml (presumably a nurse would wear similar clothes to a maid) I think a dark coloured wool in a somewhat conservative cut (nobody likes their servants dressing above their station) would be the most sensible style for somebody who is doing potentially messy work (unless it was so messy you would want a cotton wash dress) a cap was a badge of servitude for many years after other women had abandoned them (even into the early 20th century you see maids and waitresses in restaurants wearing some sort of remnant of a cap on their heads). Clean, starched, white aprons were also important for female servants when they were 'on display' in a sense (e.g. when answering the door or serving visitors) as another badge of servitude it showed their status and that they hadn't been doing any messy work (or at least not recently). I know this is later than your period, but Isabella Beeton's book of household management outlines the duties of various servants and sometimes includes references to clothing http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/beeton/isabella/household/chapter41.h tml You may also find images of servants in the background in some royal portraits http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/category.asp?category=AAPICTURES; row=0 HTH Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Save on Moving Supplies. Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oij8fb5xPmtHLFvOoOXp1Ymw6R8RtGLDQHWNOYOJ9KTwrdu/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
