[h-cost] Original millinery supplies (1890-1900ish)
A friend is thinking about clearing out her grandmother's millinery supplies —she was a professional milliner around 1890-1900 in New England. Original untouched boxes of feathers from Boston, ribbons, etc. I'd love to give her some names to contact. Any ideas? Thanks,Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going? [and mouse proof underwear]
Heck, yeah... Mouse proof underwear? Do tell. ☺☺☺ Dede > I found a reference to a lady's "mouse proof" underwear, which piqued my > curiosity, but I hesitated to post about it because the list had been so > quiet lately. _ West Village Studio www.workroombuttons.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moving
That really does sound like a dream house! Hope the transition goes smoothly and that there are no more surprises (at least not costly ones). :-) -Dede _ West Village Studio www.workroombuttons.com From: Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 2:05 PM Subject: [h-cost] Moving BTW, for the few who are left in h-costume, I just wanted to say my husband and I are cashing in our SF house, which we've owned for over 30 years, to take advantage of the local real estate boom. And we already bought our dream house in the Sacramento area! We don't expect to move in till sometime in the fall. We're having the house painted in Arts Crafts colors, oak flooring put into the few rooms that don't already have it, and remodeling the kitchen with custom mission cabinets. And some fixups here and there. There is a gorgeous garden (almost 2 acres), but we recently discovered the sprinkler system needs to be moved and part of the fence needs to be replaced . . . My sewing room is a huge master bedroom with a separate large room (formerly an indoor swimming pool, according to the neighbors), for use as a closet. There are two other bedrooms plus a guest suite, so we don't need to sleep in it, anyway for a bedroom it's absurdly large. So we are really excited. We also need to buy more furniture, preferably antique, late 19th/early 20th century. Especially more bookcases. So if anyone knows of any great antique stores in that area, email me! Fran Lavolta Press www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help?
It's possible. After all, there is an abundance of fabric to control. -Dede From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help? The longer ties could have been to tie the blouse in the right spot, maybe tied and tucked under the front of the corset to prevent twisting of the blouse? I know that in Elizabethan fashion, the bum roll was often tied and the ties tucked under the front of the corset for just that purpose. Sharon ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help?
Ah... of course. I was picturing something else. I've actually seen small antique buckles and thought they had been separated from... a very narrow belt, maybe? Buckles as fasteners... hmm... -Dede From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help? Also, I have a couple of buckles from my great aunts; they are simple rectangles, with an additional vertical bar, which would work perfectly with those shorter ties. They were in the box of lace, insertion lace trim, etc. that I got from my great aunts, so right era. Sharon ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help?
Isabella... this is perfect! Thanks so much! Exactly the right era, and yes... I imagine that particular detail would make laundry much easier for students, or perhaps for the underpaid ladies who did it for them. :-( Instead of a buckle, as Sharon suggested, perhaps a straight pin was used to fasten the front ties? And... now that the mystery of the front ties has been solved, thanks to Fran, Sharon, and Isabella... anyone care to venture a guess as to the function of the inner (longer) ties? -Dede From: . . lizmaek...@hotmail.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help? Hello, I get this in digest form so I apologize if anything I say is repetitive of something someone has already posted. There is a pattern for a similar blouse in 1906 in the Delineator: https://books.google.com/books?id=tGxJAQAAMAAJlpg=PA1177ots=D7FhGj19hwdq=The%20Delineator%2C%20June%201906pg=PA646#v=onepageq=shirtwaistf=false The reason it might have the overbelt and not be permanently gathered in the front is shown in a book from 1911: http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/needlework/Text-Book-On-Domestic-Art/Shirt-Waist.html#.Vc-L2rTy8y5 Basically, it was because it was much easier to launder for the students in the era before washing machines. :-) You can use the inner belt to keep the shirtwaist from moving around and the outer belt is used to keep the pleats/gathers in place while you are wearing it. The outer belt would be hidden by the skirt and yet another belt. Hope that helps! Sincerely,Isabellahttp://www.extantgowns.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help?
We've encountered a puzzling detail present on several early 1900's shirtwaists at the Reed Homestead (THS Clothing Collection). One example can be seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/workroombuttons/albums/72157657235770901 Please be sure to scroll down a bit and read the descriptions below the photos. 1. What is the function of the ties? Front ties are too short to be tied into a back bow, and inside ties...?2. Which is the front side of the shirtwaist: pleats or buttons? We're really stuck here! Can anyone help us out? Thanks! Sincerely,Dede O'Hair _ West Village Studio www.workroombuttons.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help?
Thanks so much! We have shirtwaists that do have a longer front, but this one does not. Also, even assuming a tiny waistline, the outside ties are not long enough for a bow -- they can only be knotted. Would the knotted ties be hidden under the skirt top? Any clue as to the purpose of the longer inner ties? Dede _ West Village Studio www.workroombuttons.com From: Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help? The ties are quite usual in Edwardian blouses. They are sewn to the back of the blouse and come around to tie in front. They are often too short to tie in a bow rather than a knot, although possibly the original wearer had a smaller waistline than a modern wearer. It's hard to tell the waist size with a full style of blouse. The purpose of the ties is to keep the blouse from riding up, and to secure the arrangement of waist folds the wearer made when putting on the blouse, especially if the blouse has a front puff (it will look longer in front than in back when not being worn if that is the case). Blouses of this period could button in either the front or the back, but whichever has the ties sewn to it is the back. Hope this helps. Fran Lavolta Press Books of historic clothing patterns www.lavoltapress.com On 8/14/2015 8:21 AM, WorkroomButtons.com wrote: We've encountered a puzzling detail present on several early 1900's shirtwaists at the Reed Homestead (THS Clothing Collection). One example can be seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/workroombuttons/albums/72157657235770901 Please be sure to scroll down a bit and read the descriptions below the photos. 1. What is the function of the ties? Front ties are too short to be tied into a back bow, and inside ties...?2. Which is the front side of the shirtwaist: pleats or buttons? We're really stuck here! Can anyone help us out? Thanks! Sincerely,Dede O'Hair _ West Village Studio www.workroombuttons.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Strange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help?
Did I really misspell strange in the title? *groan* _ West Village Studio www.workroombuttons.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Strange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help?
This is entirely possible to me, although I have no idea if it's something commonly done at the time! The outer ties folded and sewn to a point, if that makes a difference. The inner ties, in addition to being longer, are finished plainly. Dede From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help? If the blouse was worn on the outside of the skirt, and as Fran said, the ties came from back to front, perhaps instead of tying (which takes quite a bit of fabric/length), they were buckled--a simple buckle where you just weave the ties in and out. Maybe the inside ties were to actually hold the blouse down/in place, while the outside, shorter ones would be worn with a buckle for show. Sharon C. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help?
We happen to know exactly where it came from! Letty Amanda Strout wore this blouse / shirtwaist while a student at Wellesley College (class of 1907). At some point, it was washed, ironed, and put away. It was stuffed in a garbage bag sometime in the 1970s. Every stitch is original and nothing has been removed or otherwise altered. It's in remarkably good condition, all things considered. Dede From: Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stange detail on early 1900's shirtwaists - help? I don't know where the blouse came from, but there is another issue with vintage items. Dealers repair items to make them salable. I have seen ties I am sure were modernly shortened (different thread and stitch lengths), probably because the ends were frayed. And ties cut off altogether all the way up to the center back where they were sewed down. Fran Lavolta Press www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] fiddly question
My grandmother, whose sewing methods were definitely 19th century (taught by her grandmother, who was taught by HER grandmother, etc.) hemmed the ends with tiny stitches. Hope that helps! Dede I'm making a couple of Regency bonnets, with satin ribbons as ties. How do you finish off the end of the ribbon? Hem it? Cut it, and if so, how? Such a minor detail, but I'm stumped. Thanks, Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corded petticoat conundrum
Carolann, thank you for the detailed analysis of your collection! This is so interesting -- I never knew such specialized fabric existed. Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Real woven corded petticoat fabric now available!
http://thesewingacademy.org/index.php?topic=8760.0 By special order, but... yes! You can still buy pre-corded fabric! Fabric is a little different than what was used at Read Homestead, which has wider cordless areas (presumably meant for tucks as that is how they were used). Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Real woven corded petticoat fabric now available!
There were many types of pre- corded fabric available with different spacing, different size cords, different cording patterns. A wider cordless area does not necessarily indicate tucks. :-) Oh, those tricky Victorians... :-D ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stains on stored linen?
An overnight soak in baby shampoo and OxyClean (and a lot of rinsing) cleans antique linen superbly and safely. Specifically, a dirty, stained handwoven tablecloth. I was actually shocked -- it was pristine. Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Corded petticoat conundrum
Back at the Reed Homestead... the ladies and I are pulling out old petticoats that have not yet been cataloged. Nancy Wexford never got to this pile. We cleaned a corded petticoat last week. Date-wise, we're guessing maybe... 1840s -1860s? That's what I wrote down, anyway. We have pieces that date back to the 1820s, so... ? Originals by Kay claims they worn into the 1880s. I've read many different tutorials on how to make a corded tutorial. I followed Elizabeth Stewart Clark's instructions and made my own. However, I've never seen anything like this described anywhere: The fabric was pre-corded at the factory; the cords were actually woven into the fabric. It was woven so that the top was cord-free and could be sewn to a waistband, and the bottom had the cord in sections so that tucks could be inserted in the cordless sections to determine finished length. The fabric was obviously intended for this purpose. We're in North Central Mass., so it's conceivable the fabric was made in a Lowell mill. Or not. I really have no clue. Has anyone ever heard of pre-corded fabric for petticoats? Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corded petticoat conundrum
Curious minds want to know: Is the cording in the warp or in the weft? That is an excellent question. As I was writing the description, it occurred to me that I don't remember. I will pull it out next time I'm there! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chinese peasant costumes... help?
Thanks! I think I found the statue you're describing: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PGdp__poAtM/T-LYMC-WgCI/L8Q/Nld5-rVqp7c/s1600/scan0004.jpg You're right -- pretty garish... One does wonder what kind of dyes might have been used by Chinese peasants. This may be irrelevant, but I read that European peasants' clothing was actually quite colorful, and that they frequently re-dyed them as the natural colors tended to fade. Wow! That sounds like quite the project you have there. I haven't a clue about peasant costumes, sorry. But one thing you might want to think about is, colour was used a lot more that it would appear now. The statues pretty much appear to be a consistent mud shade, right? Well, I was watching one documentary about these statutes (I admit it, the things fascinate me), and apparently they used to be painted incredibly colourfully but the paint didn't survive time as well as the terracotta. There are only traces of the paint left, not enough that would show up on camera, so a German (or at least I think it was German) museum recreated one of the statues and then using the traces of paint found on it, painted as it would have been when it was buried and put it on display. Most people are so blown away by the garishness of the colours they have difficulty believing that is what it would have looked like. So after my long tangent...don't write off colours for the peasant kinds, because if those statues were anything to go by, apparently there wasn't a colour they didn't like in any combination. LOL! Just about enough to make your eyes bleed - as bad as the Greeks! Cheers, Danielle ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chinese peasant costumes... help?
On the contrary; it's very helpful! I hadn't even thought about cotton vs. linen vs. wool vs. ? Hopefully, I can learn a little more about cheap clothing dyes commonly used in Ancient China. According to Wikipedia, indigo has been used in China for centuries... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_dye At some point, though, I have to stop the interesting research and just come up with something! With thanks, Dede O'Hair (sorry, I thought my real name was coming up automatically) That is indeed interesting--I knew about the Greek statues, but not the warriors. But yes, the statues were colored with pigments--clothing would have to have been, in general, colored differently. So still raises the question whether the statues were an actual reflection of reality. As to peasants' clothing--again, depends on the dyes available, as well as the labor to use them. The ubiquitous blue indigo is native to India (they used woad, which contains the same dye, in early Western Europe). Did the Chinese have indigo or woad? All kinds of plants give various yellows--did they use them? I don't even know if the peasants wore wool, cotton, flax, or some other bast fiber (ramie, also called China grass, does grow in parts of China.) This is relevant because the bast fibers, and, to a lesser extent cotton, are in general more difficult to dye than wool. But China is such a massive territory that I'm sure what was worn varied greatly with both place and time. Sorry, again, none of this helps WorkroomButtons, does it? Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chinese peasant costumes... help?
Any chance of a link to the original? There's an iPad app I want to explore. . . ;) This link goes to a photo, not a page (the link which shows on the photo isn't clickable). == Marjorie Wilser My apologies... I'm not sure where the image was originally posted, but I got it from here: http://jameszaworski.blogspot.com/2012/06/terra-cotta-warriors-of-xian-in-color.html Hope that helps! Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chinese peasant costumes... help?
Judging from the URL on that image, it is probably taken from the National Geographic article. -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com (610) 805-9542 Thanks -- I followed the URL, but it led to a dead end. Luckily, the blog I linked had it. -Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chinese peasant costumes... help?
Excellent ideas! I will definitely explore them -- thank you! I'm a little nervous about the percussion warrior costumes -- the word elaborate was mentioned a few times... just need to get through the pit peasants before I start panicking. I saw an abbreviated exhibit of the terra cotta warriors a couple of years ago, and they weren't all warriors. I know there were, for example, musicians. Maybe you can look through a comprehensive set of photos to find some other not warriors for inspiration. Any help in the movie Mulan? It's been a while since I saw it, but it may have some ideas. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Chinese peasant costumes... help?
...or Tales of a Band Mom. This year's winter percussion piece is Terra Cotta Warriors and first order of business... peasant costumes for kids in the pit (stationary instruments like xylophones, chimes, etc.) What the heck did Chinese peasants wear in 3rd century BC? Our band director is proposing simple wrap-style tunics (like short kimonos) and scrub pants torn below the knee -- both dyed in earthy colors. Semi-accurate? Horrible? Are conical hats appropriate? --although I can see them getting knocked off. I'm clueless, and can find neither image nor description. Part II will be terracotta soldier costumes to be worn by very active teenagers with drums, but I need to deal with the peasants first. Help? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] National 2 Spool Machine
--- On Wed, 8/15/12, fastusminimus cah...@zoominternet.net wrote: ...my newest-to-me one is a National 2 Spool, the bobbin is a small spool of thread. You can straight stitch forever... I never dreamed this ever existed! Wow... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Off Topic: Removing mildew stains from cotton blend
Try soaking your blouse overnight in a *very* strong solution of OxyClean powder (or generic thereof). Strong, as in just dump it in. For spot cleaning on white fabric, I've had a lot of success rubbing a paste of OxyClean and liquid hydrogen peroxide onto the stain (chemical reaction = heat, so don't be alarmed. Good luck! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Off Topic: Removing ink from cotton blend
Try blotting, or possible soaking at this stage, with denatured alcohol. Rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol will work, but not as well. Good luck! Dede O'Hair ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Anyone know where to buy these retail?
The manufacturer is selling at least some of them via Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_sr_arts-crafts?_encoding=UTF8node=2617941011field-brandtextbin=JHB%20International%20Inc#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Darts-craftsfield-keywords=jhb+steampunkrh=n%3A2617941011%2Ck%3Ajhb+steampunk _ West Village Studio www.workroombuttons.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
Instead of flowers, maybe winter greens? Pine, balsam, holly (with bright red berries), etc. Also, could flowers be fashioned out of white paper? -Dede O'Hair ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Reed Homestead update: VCR tapes, sacques, and ghostly happenings
To Everyone: I sincerely apologize for turning this into a soap opera. One of our volunteers is also a volunteer at the Concord (Mass) Historical Society. And although we don't really have a formal policy regarding dissemination, they do, and it's VERY strict due in part to their large collection of Thoreau artifacts. She mentioned this as we were discussing my intentions to post photos on-line, and it prompted me to post that very stupid and unforgivably arrogant non-dissemination disclaimer. A very kind list member wisely suggested I take the photos down until I have formal permission, and so I have done that. Again, please accept my very sincere apologies for the drama. Sincerely, Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Reed Homestead update: VCR tapes, sacques, and ghostly happenings
Okay, the photos are back up -- I have permission now! And I apologize again for making you all part of my personal drama. Since these photos are the first ever taken of our new shelving, I was asked if they could be included in the Annual Report (!). Life is... interesting. Dede --- On Thu, 9/22/11, WorkroomButtons.com westvillagedrap...@yahoo.com wrote: A very kind list member wisely suggested I take the photos down until I have formal permission, and so I have done that. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Link to Reed Homestead sacque photos
www.flickr.com/photos/workroombuttons/sets/72157627724105088/detail Posted with permission. :-) -Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Saques
Definitely not a clothing expert, either, but it certainly makes sense to me. Consultants far wiser than I have documented them as garments specifically worn by women. Link: www.flickr.com/photos/workroombuttons/sets/72157627724105088/detail Dede --- On Thu, 9/22/11, Angelique Carlson subversivey...@me.com wrote: Disclaimer- I am not a costuming expert, I just like clothes and lurk here. I wonder if they might be for women who are breastfeeding? You could have access quickly, which was necessary for me, and also modesty. What do you think? Angelique ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Link to Reed Homestead sacque photos
This won't be very helpful, but... The sacques are all roughly the same size as the dress bodices from the same period. Men's shirts from the same period are measurably larger. Since everything is from one family, one could assume that the sacques were worn by the Reed ladies. Link: www.flickr.com/photos/workroombuttons/sets/72157627724105088/detail --- On Thu, 9/22/11, Laura Rubin rubin.lau...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that these look like men's shirts, with the exception perhaps of the one with the neck ruffle. That one looks like a habit shirt as described briefly by the Cunningtons in the History of Underclothes. That would put it in the early 1820s, IIRC, at any rate the high fashionable waist could account for the shortness of the garments. They still look like men's underclothes to me, though now I'm curious to see what other garments you're looking at for comparison. -Laura ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Reed Homestead update: VCR tapes, sacques, and ghostly happenings
I asked our director about use of the term VCR (she had to look it up as the transcripts predate her). Yup -- Video Cassette Recorder. Nancy Rexford was recorded on video as well as on cassette tape; the transcript was pulled from the tape. Before I provide the link to some photos I took today... I must respectfully ask a favor. I don't have permission from the board to disseminate images of Historical Society property. If you choose to view these (really bad) photos, please do so with the understanding that they are not to be shared in any form whatsoever. If you feel you can not abide by my request, please do not open the link. Thank you. www.flickr.com/photos/workroombuttons/sets/72157627724105088/detail And one more time... our film debut! http://video.syfy.com/shows/ghosthunters/v1353267 -Dede O'Hair ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Reed Homestead update: VCR tapes, sacques, and ghostly happenings
Joan, we have men's shirts, as well, and they are very different from these. These garments are smaller, and well... more feminine (?). They are open all the way down the front, with a neck closure. It's clear that I'm not an expert. --- On Wed, 9/21/11, Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net wrote: From: Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reed Homestead update: VCR tapes, sacques, and ghostly happenings To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 11:10 PM Dede, Thanks for posting those photos. They look like men's shirts/chemises to me (the ones in the pictures look too short for women's shifts); I would not call any of them sacques (I associate that word with something other than body linens/underwear). Just from the styles, my guess would be late 18th through mid-19th century. I hope the Historical Society can publish some pictures/diagrams of them with whatever provenance is available; I'd be interested in buying something like that. Please keep us informed. Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
I looked her up (her name is on the transcript). She appears to be very knowledgeable, but of course that's no guarantee of accuracy. Also, she was faced literally with dozens of bulging plastic garbage bags and may have missed clues dues to the sheer enormity of her task. We (two elderly ladies and me) have found things she missed, like factory marks and laundry stencils, that in my untrained opinion render her approximate date of those garments invalid. But, again... considering the conditions under which she was working... it's not surprising that she may have missed the mark occasionally. Am I allowed to use her name here? Here's a book she wrote (on Amazon): www.amazon.com/Womens-Shoes-America-1795-1930-Rexford/dp/0873386566 ...and here is a brief professional synopsis: www.partnersforabetterworld.org/directors.html (scroll to bottom) --- On Thu, 9/15/11, Sheridan Alder sheridanal...@yahoo.ca wrote: Excuse me if someone else has already thrown out this suggestion, but my impression is simple - the 1995 cataloguer just plain wasn't knowledgeable about historical clothing! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
Not only that, but the actual working space was...well, horrible. Dirty, poorly lit, and very (very) crowded -- not quite attic space, but very close. It's slightly better now. The ladies have since cleared out a tiny back room, tearing down filthy tattered 1840's wallpaper (and saving as much as they could) so they could scrub and paint. It is now our clean space and even tinier because we just assembled shelving in there for our new storage boxes. Everything else is still very crowded and precariously hung on leaning donated coat racks -- sacques and mens' shirts are still on wire hangers. Nothing was done with the collection for 15 years after she cataloged as much as she could reach, and a lot of it was jammed into that tiny (filthy) room until very recently. Have I ever posted a link? www.townsendhistoricalsociety.org ...a little more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Homestead ...and we're on TV! www.tv.com/shows/ghost-hunters/ghostly-evidence-1395703 A film crew showed up to record our ghostly happenings a few months ago. Has anyone seen the this episode of Ghost Hunters? Maybe... 150 years ago (?) a grieving mother, mourning the death of her daughter, hanged herself off the top of the staircase. We all grip onto that post when we climb upstairs (steps are very steep). It's a sad story, and I hope that poor mother has found peace. Dede --- On Thu, 9/15/11, annbw...@aol.com annbw...@aol.com wrote: Oh, my goodness, she is one of THE authorities. Of course, all of us costume historians have learned a great deal in the last 15 years and, as you point out, she was faced with an enormous task. She might very well have different readings on some of these things now herself. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
Hey, we're psychic! *cue spooky music* Apparently, our Board of Directors didn't think to suggest a donation, so of course... we got nuthin'. And they left the front door open! Hmph! We don't get Syfy, but I found a preview link for Episode 714 (Ghostly Evidence)... http://video.syfy.com/shows/ghosthunters#shows/ghosthunters/promos_trailers_3/ghostly-evidence--next-episode--ghost-hunters/v1353267 Thanks for the heads up! :-) Dede --- On Thu, 9/15/11, penhal...@juno.com penhal...@juno.com wrote: Hey! That episode of Ghost Hunters was on last night!. (Yeah, paranormal shows are a guilty pleasure of mine *blushes*) They caught what they interpreted as a full body apparition on the stairs. We now return you to your originaly scheduled costume discussion. KarenSeamstrix ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
No chance at all. We're lucky we have an extension cord for the light fixture! No heat or AC, so the work is seasonal lest we freeze/roast up there. Dede --- On Thu, 9/15/11, Carmen Beaudry moreplen...@earthlink.net wrote: It looks and sounds like you need an off-site storage and workroom for the clothing collection. Any chance of getting that? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
Thank you for the link! It appears to be very close, although ours are all plain cotton (sheeting weight) and have no front closures (a few have ties at the neck, I think). Straight pins, maybe? We JUST started working on them, and I'll look for pin-holes. Dede --- On Thu, 9/15/11, Katy Bishop katybisho...@gmail.com wrote: Here's a link to the Past Patterns Sacque and petticoat: http://www.pastpatterns.com/808.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Update on split drawers (fascinating, I know...)
On the slim chance that anyone is following along... Yes, we found another pair of split drawers in the the vast Reed Homestead (Townsend Historical Society) collection. They definitely belonged to an adult, and like the child-sized pair... well worn and heavily mended. --- On Thu, 8/11/11, WorkroomButtons.com westvillagedrap...@yahoo.com wrote: Re: drawers So far, we have found one pair of split drawers in the vast attic-sized pile, er... collection. Definitely worn by a child. Were they actually worn by grown women? Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
Back at the Reed Homestead... we are moving on to the next pile -- stacks and stacks of shirt-like garments with no closures (other than a few with ties at the neck). We hired a woman in 1995 to start pulling clothing literally out of garbage bags and start cataloging. (Sadly, we still have pieces from 1809 still in garbage bags -- yes, the black plastic kind.) She called these shirt-like garments sacques and this is want she wrote about them... ...I would like someone after me to write the word sacque which is what we're going to use for the generic term. A sacque is a garment which hangs from the shoulder down without interruption, without darts, without a waist seam, so a man's sacque coat is one that was not cut in at the waist. And that seems to be a generic form for this style if garment, no matter how it's being used, but as I said before and you got on the VCR I think, these can be used as a working garment with a skirt, held in place with an apron. They can be used as a short nightgown for hot weather and when somebody is ill and is using a bedpan. They can be used over your dress when you're doing your hair and that's probably about it. Oh, yes, and the other thing is for maternity, when it's an expandable top for when you're pregnant and obviously can be used for nursing as well. And nobody has as many as you have. We have attempted to locate information about this type of garment, but clearly we're looking in the wrong places because we're coming up empty. We can find saques certainly but they don't look like ours. Any ideas? Dede O'Hair ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
Oh, and this is the kind of thing we find when we research sacque (hence NOT the dress): www.reconstructinghistory.com/assets/products/3237/product/RH821frontcover.jpg?1298667926 Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie Costume Question: McGonagall's Yule Ensemble
I actually had my nose 2 from that dress at the travel exhibit (Boston Museum of Science). No photos, of course, but I remember... pine-ish color (maybe overshot with something else?), with some kind of smocking -- it seemed almost random (but wasn't). Not much help, I know... Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
Okay, dumb question, but... why did they need drawers at all? Chemise, layers of petticoats, and long skirts -- everything totally obscured, so why bother with drawers? Dede O'Hair --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net wrote: Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get at them to pull them down from the waist. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
Impressive research!.. Of all of them, this is probably the closest: http://ny-image3.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.256039843.jpg ...but the necks are rounded, and snug. They are also older than the pattern date. Thanks! Dede --- On Wed, 9/14/11, otsisto otsi...@socket.net wrote: Are you talking about something like these? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
The majority, at least, appear to be cotton and are hand sewn. Dede --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Chris Laning clan...@igc.org wrote: I don't offhand see any mention of what these sacques are made of. Are they white linen? If so, as a medievalist, of course my reflex would be to simply consider these as shirts, smocks or chemises -- the nearly universal innermost layer of medieval/renaissance underwear, and hence present in large quantities in most wardrobes. But I don't know enough about post-renaissance clothing to guess how late the fashion lasted for this type of undergarment. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
I will attempt photos next Wednesday during our next scheduled sort the vast pile meeting. Assuming my teenager can teach me to use her digital camera by then... (yes, I am technology-impaired). Also, the lighting is terrible. Dede --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com wrote: However, without a picture, it's impossible to what the garment under discussion actually is. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Garments at the Reed Homestead
I'll certainly try (I have a Flickr account). The lady in charge takes photos of everything as we pack them away, but they are for archival purposes. We had a fly-by-night volunteer take photos of a day's work of chemises, because she had a better camera... and we never saw her again (or the photos), so we have to figure out which box those particular chemises are in, unpack them, take photos... (you get the idea). I can take photos of them if I figure out how to use my daughter's camera -- they may or may not be the nicest ones we have. We finished vacuuming all the 19th century dresses we have found so far, but they're not packed. There's so many... any particular time period? Earliest on the rack is an 1820's pelisse, then every decade thereafter.. They were dated by a lady hired in 1995 (same lady who wrote the sacque comments). We're just starting the sacques, and after that piles of mens' shirts, then *sigh* Dede _ West Village Studio www.workroombuttons.com --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Martha Kelly marthake...@nyc.rr.com wrote: Dede, is there anywhere you can post some pictures of the garments you're looking at? Maybe a Facebook page or Flickr? Martha ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
Bear in mind I'm no expert, but they really do appear to be something a woman would have worn. Not sure if any have laundry marks, but that would cinch it as we know all the initials of the entire Reed family. Perhaps she was introducing sacque as a generic term? Like shoe could describe an extremely wide variety of footwear... okay, I'm seriously reaching here. As for the meaning of VCR... this was all done way before my time, and these notes were transcribed from something. I'll ask. Dede _ West Village Studio www.workroombuttons.com --- On Wed, 9/14/11, cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com wrote: Best thing would be if you could post a photo of one or two of these garments (spread out flat would be sufficient). From the description you quoted, these sound like just...shirts. Or shifts. I don't think sacque is a term used for these garments either in that time period or modernly...except that she refers to a man's sacque coat though I don't see how that relates to the garments described thereafter. The generic dictionary definition for sacque is a woman's full loose hip-length jacket (dictionary.com) and what she describes doesn't fit that definition. What is the VCR? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
Unfortunately, I now completely understand why wearing split drawers would be desirable. Dede --- On Wed, 9/14/11, otsisto otsi...@socket.net wrote: For the ladies with meat on their thighs it is a chaffing matter. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
Ah... that makes perfect sense. When she was not quite 12, my daughter was a jr. docent in a hoop skirt. Let's just say sitting down, um... modestly was a challenge. I had forgotten all about that experience! Dede --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Ann Catelli elvestoor...@yahoo.com wrote: If you have a lampshade slightly loose on its harp, press down on one side. The other side goes Flying up. The crinoline does the same thing, if not managed carefully. Even the most ladylike of persons might fall. Drawers are definitely needed. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1845 button closure -- front or back?
So far, we have found one pair of split drawers in the vast attic-sized pile... Really! That's interesting. I've seen dozens but they are all kinda early. The seam gets sewn up I'd say (guess really) by the 1860's and by the 1880's you have combos... a bodice part and the legs part in one. But I'm no expert on this subject. --- Yup -- one pair, and clearly worn by a child (and very heavily mended). This family kept everything, so... why no drawers from this period? Hmm... -Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1845 button closure -- front or back?
Thank you! Apparently our initial thought was correct, that openings are in the front. That stain threw me off. Were shifts worn as nightgowns? That might explain things, if the wearer tended to twist around as she slept. Were drawers worn as early as 1845 (give or take a few years either way)? Although considered well-to-do locally, the Reed family still lived in a cultural backwater, so might not be up on the latest fashions. Shifts from other periods in our collection have smaller necks and really do need an opening, but I don't think these buttons were ever undone. The buttonholes aren't pulled from wear at all -- the neck is so wide it's unnecessary. Why bother putting in a placket if you don't need to? Our laundry marks are tiny ornate 3-letter initials which we believe were done with a stencil set. Still perfectly clear after umpteenth washings -- strong ink! I keep wondering why the ink bleed didn't when first applied. Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1845 button closure -- front or back?
Re: drawers So far, we have found one pair of split drawers in the vast attic-sized pile, er... collection. Definitely worn by a child. Were they actually worn by grown women? Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1845 button closure -- front or back?
I volunteer at our local historical site, which houses (among other things) a vast collection of 19th century underwear. Today we cleaned and packed a stack of circa 1845 ladies' shifts, all with a single button closure at the neck. The shifts were all marked with a stamped (not embroidered) monogram to facilitate laundry sorting, and always on the closure side of the shift. The monogram was never meant to be decorative. We worked under the assumption that these shifts were worn with the closure on the front, but then I had an epiphany... 1. One of the shifts had a stain of the sort that is commonly found on the back of ladies' underwear. On the closure side. 2. Why would a marking (stamped monogram) meant only to label a garment be put on the front? Wouldn't it be put on the back? -- they were all on the closure side. I am now tasked with finding the answer. Any thoughts? -Dede O'Hair ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1845 button closure -- front or back?
Yes, the shift fronts (or backs) have an opening with button closure at the neck. The necks are very wide (shoulder-to-shoulder), and there does not appear to be a difference between front/back, height-wise. I have teenaged daughters, and let's just say I am familiar with that particular stain... We take (not great) documentation photos, and I'm not sure where the photos are being stored. The shifts (at least the stack we tackled today) were in near-perfect condition, save for staining caused by poor storage conditions. When I say vast collection I mean VAST -- our clothing collection has been described as the largest collection of American country clothing in existence... because generations of the Reed family never threw any of it away. -Dede --- On Wed, 8/10/11, Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com wrote: Dede, If by the closure side you mean the neck button side of the garment, it seems reasonable that the marking would be on the same side (the back and not the front). Back closing garments were not that uncommon, though many shifts did indeed close in front. Even if the marking were on the front, ladies' shifts were never intended to be viewed by anybody, so who would care where a laundry mark was placed? The stain may be indicative of use, as you surmise. I'm guessing it's a blood stain? However, if the lady had slaughtered a chicken she may have gotten blood on the front of her dress and underpinnings (just a thought here!), so you'd have to identify the source of the stain to assume back vs front. Are the front pattern pieces higher in the back than the front? I'd look for that: more allowance for back pieces to be worn a little higher. That would be a construction detail you may have missed while folding. It will be interesting to see what you come up with. Any photos which could be posted to the library? (or does indra have a library?) == Marjorie Wilser ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1845 button closure -- front or back?
Armholes appear to be the same front/back, also -- same depth. No apparent difference. --- On Wed, 8/10/11, Nordtorp-Madson, Michelle A. manordto...@stthomas.edu wrote: What about the armholes? Is there a difference in depth that would indicate front and back. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] help in finding a website
Is there a direct link to wayback.org? What a valuable resource! Although... just looked up obsolete versions of my website via the Sempstress link, and... *cringe* Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Shoe glue
I don't know if you're interested, but a shoe repair shop near us accepts shoes by mail. They do excellent work: www.keosashoerepair.com Dede O'Hair ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Cabbage question
Maybe shoddy and/or mungo? Benjamin Law developed a process of turning recycled old rags mixed with some virgin wool into shoddy around 1813. He was unable at the time to figure out a way of incorporating tailors' clippings into the process. This was figured out by his nephews several years later and was called mungo. By 1855, 35,000,000 pounds of rag were being sorted and processed into yarn to make mungo and shoddy. The making of shoddy and mungo is a similar process to the making of woolen and worsted, once the rags had been ground up and processed into yarn. From: http://www.maggieblanck.com/Land/Shoddy.html Dede O'Hair _ West Village Studio www.workroombuttons.com --- On Tue, 4/19/11, Stacey Dunleavy anastas...@gmail.com wrote: From: Stacey Dunleavy anastas...@gmail.com Subject: [h-cost] Cabbage question To: h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 1:39 PM Of course, what was done with the cabbage? I can't see good wools being used for dustrags, yet there's no evidence of American-style patchwork quilting until the 18th Century. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Cabbage question
Actually, I was originally hoping for some discussion on pre-Industrial shoddy fabric -- I was wondering if shoddy was even produced before the 19th Century. BUT... I think I answered my own question: according to The History of the Shoddy-Trade (1860) p.18, manual labor can not produce the force required for the process. So... it appears that shoddy was not made prior to the 1800's. Cite: http://books.google.com/books?id=vs4oYAAJprintsec=frontcoverdq=history+of+shoddysource=blots=1uWV0Cg6ZKsig=kxRFoaNHFM3qVPmcy-ijikIA6gchl=enei=kd-tTaOCMMXX0QGl0qi6Cwsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=2ved=0CB0Q6AEwATgK#v=onepageqf=false ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Downton Abbey
By everyone, do you mean major pattern companies? Is PBS even on the radar of the Big Three? Dede --- On Mon, 1/17/11, Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com wrote: So is this the next costume drama where everyone will be rushing to reproduce the costumes? Fran ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Downton Abbey
Ah... thank you, Elena. I forgot Downton Abbey was produced by the BBC, not PBS. My uneducated, uninformed, stab-in-the-dark guess is no, because however far the reach of the BBC, it's still not Hollywood (which produced Out of Africa and Titanic). However, my costume drama-crazed teenager has fallen madly in love with the series, and is now thinking prom dress -- I could be totally wrong about its popular appeal, but I still don't think it will ever be a franchise like Titanic. Dede ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] vintage dress washing question
My daughter dropped chocolate on a handwoven antique linen tablecloth (don't ask). I soaked it in baby shampoo and Oxy-Clean, and machine washed VERY gently. Excellent results! Linen isn't cotton, but perhaps the same treatment would be effective (assuming, as Ann mentioned, it is strong enough to withstand getting wet). Dede O'Hair ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 15th Year Anniversary
I am very, very new here, but... I remember when many member websites and businesses were in their infancy. I really enjoyed discovering them, and I'm so grateful to everyone who unknowingly refined my love of costuming. Dede O'Hair ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] piping on Civil War era dresses
I work with the Reed Homestead clothing collection (Townsend, MA). At least one 1850-60 dress has fake outie back side seams. The back bodice is one piece. Don't know if that helps the discussion at all... -Dede O'Hair ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
