[hlcoders] Experienced (non-game) Programmer looking for work on an HL or HL2 mod
I posted this at planethalflife.com mod forums. Sending it out to this list as well... Hi everyone. I'm an experienced programmer looking to work on a HL or HL2 mod. While I have very little game programming experience, I have been programming for a living for over 10 years now, in the Telecom industry. My game programming experience is limited only to a little fooling around with some 2D stuff from an old Lamothe book Windows Game Programming for Dummies, as well as a tiny little bit of DirectX programming experimentation. I know C very well, and some C++. I can find my way around a C++ program and have written some small programs, but nothing major. I learn fast. Programming itself is not the problem. I just want an interesting project to work on. I'm interested in learning more about game programming, and developing a mod seems to be a great path to take. I'd like to work on something with a well thought-out game design, and a motivated team leader. I'm willing to start from scratch on a new mod, or join an existing mod team, even if it is just to quash those final few bugs. I just want to get into the guts of the game. Thanks, Jamie ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Half-Life 2: Programming, Hmm?
that gives me a) relief, no more silly discussion. b) confusion, how will they makej it easier for modders, documentation, perhaps? : c) hope, valve ppl still read our mumblings : -- MoD, Always @ your service. - Original Message - From: Erik Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 11:41 PM Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Half-Life 2: Programming, Hmm? The Source SDK will be similar to the existing Half-Life SDK in that it will be C++ based, not a using a proprietary scripting language. Erik Johnson -Original Message- From: Sniper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [hlcoders] Half-Life 2: Programming, Hmm? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Just a quick thought/question. Half-Life 2 and it's modifications will be done with C/C++, as it was in Half-Life, correct? There's a handful of discussions blooming up on various Half-Life 2 forums talking about this. Scripting languages can be very limiting... so it's a bit scary what Gabe Newell's quote from a PC Gamer article said: While the old system required its fair share of technical know-how, amateur modders are now promised the chance to focus on content and gameplay flow rather than the nuts and bolts of programming. This could imply a scripting language, don't you agree? (Emphasis on could) Hopefully this is not the case, of course. A scripting language might be neat for people new to creating modifications, but it'd be nice to have C/C++ in addition. I don't think Valve would step away from the power C/C++ offers to modders, but nothing has really been confirmed. Can anyone from Valve confirm if C/C++ will still be used for Half-Life 2? Sniper -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] c++ vs. scripts
If you (or ANYONE) belive that C++ is the be all and end all of developement of games then you need to take a reality check, wake up and stop being so blinkered. It's not the be all and all. But it is the base for almost any AAA game. So you can't just shove C/C++ aside without looking back. Anyways, I'm not going to argue this point any more, simply because i've been in your postion, did some reading and researching into scripting systems and realised just how good they are and what you can do with them, and frankly i've had enuff of bashing my head against a brick wall here and i've better things to do (like work and make a living). So, go through life beliving C++ is the best if you like, but if you plan on taking your skills out into the game industry be prepared for a shock and a kick in the teeth when they use other things as well. The thing is that with only a scripting language Half-Life 2 modding will never be as big. The modders basicly need the same access to the game as the developper had, except maybe the core engine (altho there are ways aorund the enige too). Just like the HL SDK works now. With only scripting this is just not feasable. The scripting would be so complex and feature rich that it would be easier to just start coding in binary code :) The key is a combination of scriping and C/C++, just like game developpers use. The creative staff uses the scripting language to create whatever they want in a simple way. If it doesn't support a certain feature, it's added with C/C++. Just like that, the modder would need the same access. If you want to create a 'simple' mod, you can just use the scripting language only. And you're happy it was all so simple to mod HL. On the other hand, if you want to make a real TC, like a rally mod, you just fire up your favorite C/C++ editor next to the script editor and start working... If you need extra power or a new script feature, you just switch ot your C/C++ window, code it there and then continue with the script. This way you have the best of both worlds. And it allows the creative staff of your mod to do a lot of coding for you with the script, while the core coding team concentrates on the bowels of the engine. Jeroen ShadowLord Bogers ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Half-Life 2: Programming, Hmm?
A bit of an update on this. GamingNEXT had an interview with Gabe Newell... This is what he had to say about the modability of the engine: GamingNEXT - Finally, how user friendly is this engine and will modders be able to create unique environments and maps that made the first Half-Life last so long? Gabe Newell - We learned a lot through our experiences with TFC, Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, and so on. This engine is much more MOD'able (if that's a word) than Half-Life 1 was, and the tool set has been improved a lot. We'll also be releasing a bunch of material to help MOD teams get their existing work up and running on the new engine as a starting point. His last line suggests that you can port existing work for HL MODs to HL2. If this is the case, it's almost certain there will be C/C++ modding. Please note that this does NOT exclude a scripting language. To read the full interview, go to http://www.gamingnext.com/articles/index.asp?id=17 Jeroen ShadowLord Bogers - Original Message - From: Sniper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 04:56 Subject: [hlcoders] Half-Life 2: Programming, Hmm? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Just a quick thought/question. Half-Life 2 and it's modifications will be done with C/C++, as it was in Half-Life, correct? There's a handful of discussions blooming up on various Half-Life 2 forums talking about this. Scripting languages can be very limiting... so it's a bit scary what Gabe Newell's quote from a PC Gamer article said: While the old system required its fair share of technical know-how, amateur modders are now promised the chance to focus on content and gameplay flow rather than the nuts and bolts of programming. This could imply a scripting language, don't you agree? (Emphasis on could) Hopefully this is not the case, of course. A scripting language might be neat for people new to creating modifications, but it'd be nice to have C/C++ in addition. I don't think Valve would step away from the power C/C++ offers to modders, but nothing has really been confirmed. Can anyone from Valve confirm if C/C++ will still be used for Half-Life 2? Sniper -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
[hlcoders] Mods on CD?
Lo, list ;) Some of my forum gnomes have been clamouring for me to sell cds with my mod on it. I wasn't exactly sure if this was legal as per the EULA. We wouldn't actually be making any profit from the sales of the cd - just whatever cafepress charges. Thanks for any (informed) responses... Jeff 'Kuja' Katz http://www.digitalpaintball.net ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] c++ vs. scripts
OMFG MY EMAIL, jesus christ you guys clam DOWN! LOL -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony omega Sergi Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlcoders] c++ vs. scripts I'm replying to myself because I just re-read it, it may seem like I have this thing against CS, but I don't. Anyway, more to the point, because of something phantom said about hl being one of the first.. well, no. Quake. I'll bring up quake any day of the week. From what I know/remember, the majority (or at least, a large chunk.. robin with tf, yahn with BSP, steve used to run a quake modding site (he even helped me with some stuff back in the day for quake, thanks steve!) of valve are/were all Quake Modders. It isn't because its written in c/c++ that the mod community is so big; its BECAUSE THEY SUPPORT IT. I've yet to see another retail game where the TEAM sets up a coding mailing list, and other forms of communication to keep community interaction with their project. HL could have had its own variation on QuakeC, and I'm willing to bet it still would have risen to the top. Sure, it may not have lasted AS long, with so many things being recycled, it's the fact that valve has always supported the mod community, being modders themselves that put them to the top. From what I've seen, even if hl2 used a scripting language, I'd STILL mod for it, unlike unreal. I just don't see the support aspect there. omega Blackened Interactive - http://www.blackened-interactive.com Wavelength - http://www.thewavelength.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlcoders- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony omega Sergi Sent: May 26, 2003 11:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlcoders] c++ vs. scripts No other game has counter-strike, and people wanting to clone it either. No other game has a huge following that thinks CS *IS* the engine, and that they want to mod it. I just felt like throwing this in for no real reason. I'm all for c/c++ over scripting anyway, always have been, however its surely not because of c/c++ that there are so many mods. There are hundreds if not thousands of mods that are by people that don't know how to program anyway, they just want a piece of the hl mod pie, and most of them are CS players. omega Blackened Interactive - http://www.blackened-interactive.com Wavelength - http://www.thewavelength.net ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] c++ vs. scripts
Truth hurts, doesn't it. The average game out there IS just a bunch of crappy weapon mods. Take the entire Starsiege: Tribes series for instance. The mod community was built around a scripting engine the game featured. Nothing but double warhammer shotgun flameball thrower plasma bomb launcher weapon mods were created. There are several different examples of why scripting languages usually lead to crappy weapon mods. Too many to list. Sniper - Original Message - From: Phantom [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] c++ vs. scripts - Original Message - From: Michael A. Hobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 9:18 PM Subject: RE: [hlcoders] c++ vs. scripts Persons who are not up to programming in C or C++ are not up to programming at all and are certainly not skilled enough to produce anything but crappy weapons mods. oh, one last thing, this is the most bigoeted, short sighed and childish comment in this whole convasion. Your going to write off the work of everyone who programs in something else other than C or C++ because they are 'not upto it' if they havent needed to learn it? Tell me when you get out into the real world and discover C++ isnt 'all that' :) (btw, i'd be intrested to know just how much of C++ you really do know :) ) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Half-Life 2: Programming, Hmm?
Lovely :D - Original Message - From: Erik Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 11:41 PM Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Half-Life 2: Programming, Hmm? The Source SDK will be similar to the existing Half-Life SDK in that it will be C++ based, not a using a proprietary scripting language. Erik Johnson -Original Message- From: Sniper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [hlcoders] Half-Life 2: Programming, Hmm? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Just a quick thought/question. Half-Life 2 and it's modifications will be done with C/C++, as it was in Half-Life, correct? There's a handful of discussions blooming up on various Half-Life 2 forums talking about this. Scripting languages can be very limiting... so it's a bit scary what Gabe Newell's quote from a PC Gamer article said: While the old system required its fair share of technical know-how, amateur modders are now promised the chance to focus on content and gameplay flow rather than the nuts and bolts of programming. This could imply a scripting language, don't you agree? (Emphasis on could) Hopefully this is not the case, of course. A scripting language might be neat for people new to creating modifications, but it'd be nice to have C/C++ in addition. I don't think Valve would step away from the power C/C++ offers to modders, but nothing has really been confirmed. Can anyone from Valve confirm if C/C++ will still be used for Half-Life 2? Sniper -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Experienced (non-game) Programmer looking for work on an HL or HL 2 mod
http://mods.moddb.com/hw/?hw=2 Flick through that list and see if you spot anything you like. :) -EvilGrin http://halflife-central.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jamie Esliger Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:10 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: [hlcoders] Experienced (non-game) Programmer looking for work on an HL or HL 2 mod I posted this at planethalflife.com mod forums. Sending it out to this list as well... Hi everyone. I'm an experienced programmer looking to work on a HL or HL2 mod. While I have very little game programming experience, I have been programming for a living for over 10 years now, in the Telecom industry. My game programming experience is limited only to a little fooling around with some 2D stuff from an old Lamothe book Windows Game Programming for Dummies, as well as a tiny little bit of DirectX programming experimentation. I know C very well, and some C++. I can find my way around a C++ program and have written some small programs, but nothing major. I learn fast. Programming itself is not the problem. I just want an interesting project to work on. I'm interested in learning more about game programming, and developing a mod seems to be a great path to take. I'd like to work on something with a well thought-out game design, and a motivated team leader. I'm willing to start from scratch on a new mod, or join an existing mod team, even if it is just to quash those final few bugs. I just want to get into the guts of the game. Thanks, Jamie ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 19/05/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 19/05/2003 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Mods on CD?
Now, therefore, in consideration of the mutual promises made herein, the parties agree as follows: 1. License. 1.1 License Grant. Valve hereby grants Licensee a nonexclusive, royalty-free, terminable, worldwide, nontransferable license to: (a) use, reproduce and modify the SDK in source code form, solely to develop a Mod; and (b) reproduce, distribute and license the Mod in object code form, solely to licensed end users of Half-Life, _without_charge_. Apparently not. -- MoD, Often @ your service. - Original Message - From: Jeff Katz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:14 PM Subject: [hlcoders] Mods on CD? Lo, list ;) Some of my forum gnomes have been clamouring for me to sell cds with my mod on it. I wasn't exactly sure if this was legal as per the EULA. We wouldn't actually be making any profit from the sales of the cd - just whatever cafepress charges. Thanks for any (informed) responses... Jeff 'Kuja' Katz http://www.digitalpaintball.net ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Mods on CD?
Actually I'd be very careful doing that. Who's to say shipping didn't cost $89.90? My point is its not enough to be beyond reproach you have to appear to be beyond reproach. If you really are just charging for shipping, it may look as though you are also making a bit on the side. Apart from that, I don't think you can charge full stop. I remember a few years ago there was a discussion about this and the final answer was you could charge for an internet distribution, but not for a distribution on physical media. I don't know if that has since changed. You should email Eric Smith and ask him. He will pass it onto the relevant legal people. Also on a side note, if you really want to make money from a mod, why not look at more original ways of doing it rather than selling it perse? Banner ads etc for instance. Yahn once said to me that making money is not a good driving force behind the production of a mod. Good advice. Michael Shimmins Sesechial Software ___ Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments, check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of Sesechial Software. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian A. Stumm Sent: Wednesday, 28 May 2003 1:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 27 May 2003, Jeff Katz wrote: Lo, list ;) Some of my forum gnomes have been clamouring for me to sell cds with my mod on it. I wasn't exactly sure if this was legal as per the EULA. We wouldn't actually be making any profit from the sales of the cd - just whatever cafepress charges. Thanks for any (informed) responses... I doubt you could charge for the mod, but could probably charge for shipping/handling and to cover cost of producing the CD itself. Linux is free but you can buy redhat in the store or download it for free off the redhat's site. You should read Valve's license carefully since HL is not GPL'ed. But I think you would be ok with charging 5-10 bucks or something for the CD burned with mod on it and shipping charge included in that charge. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] c++ vs. scripts
And i wonder how many 'crappy weapon mods' have existed for HL and just faded away.. probably no less. btw, most of my comment was directed at the idea that unless you can code in C or C++ you might as well not bother programming at all, which unless you are crazy and an idiot you cant agree with :) - Original Message - From: Sniper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] c++ vs. scripts Truth hurts, doesn't it. The average game out there IS just a bunch of crappy weapon mods. Take the entire Starsiege: Tribes series for instance. The mod community was built around a scripting engine the game featured. Nothing but double warhammer shotgun flameball thrower plasma bomb launcher weapon mods were created. There are several different examples of why scripting languages usually lead to crappy weapon mods. Too many to list. Sniper ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Half-Life 2: Programming, Hmm?
Yes, it did clear some questions up. I'm glad C++ is still being used. I never thought it would be any other way, but you never know. Well, I guess now you know. Jonathan Day www.trepid.net - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:30 AM Subject: RE: [hlcoders] Half-Life 2: Programming, Hmm? Erik Johnson wrote: The Source SDK will be similar to the existing Half-Life SDK in that it will be C++ based, not a using a proprietary scripting language. Erik Johnson Thank you Erik for replying! I'm sure it meant a lot to quite a few on this list. HoundDawg http://www.unitedadmins.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
