Re: *CNZ4201E OPERLOG HAS FAILED

[jagadishan perumal]

Hi,

Apology for not being more precise. Ouput for the command : /D
LOGGER,LOGSTREAM.


D LOGGER,LOGSTREAM
IXG601I   12.20.54  LOGGER DISPLAY 02
INVENTORY INFORMATION BY LOGSTREAM
LOGSTREAM  STRUCTURE
-  -
ATR.CTSPLEX.ARCHIVE*DASDONLY*
  SYSNAME: ZOSB
DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
  GROUP: PRODUCTION
ATR.CTSPLEX.DELAYED.UR *DASDONLY*
  SYSNAME: ZOSB
DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
  GROUP: PRODUCTION
ATR.CTSPLEX.MAIN.UR*DASDONLY*
  SYSNAME: ZOSB
DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
 DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
   GROUP: PRODUCTION
 ATR.CTSPLEX.RESTART*DASDONLY*
   SYSNAME: ZOSB
 DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
   GROUP: PRODUCTION
 ATR.CTSPLEX.RM.DATA*DASDONLY*
   SYSNAME: ZOSB
 DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
   GROUP: PRODUCTION
 BBO.WAS.ERROR.LOG  *DASDONLY*
   SYSNAME: ZOSB
 DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
   GROUP: PRODUCTION
 CICSTS31.CICSVR.DFHLGLOG   *DASDONLY*
 CICSTS31.LOG.MODEL *DASDONLY*
 CICSUSER.CICS2.DFHLOG  *DASDONLY*
 CICSUSER.CICS2.DFHSHUNT*DASDONLY*
CICSUSER.CICS2.DFHSHUNT*DASDONLY*
CICS1USR.CICS1.DFHLOG  *DASDONLY*
  SYSNAME: ZOSB
DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
  GROUP: PRODUCTION
CICS1USR.CICS1.DFHSHUNT*DASDONLY*
  SYSNAME: ZOSB
DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
  GROUP: PRODUCTION
IBMUSER.CICS1.DFHLOG   *DASDONLY*
IBMUSER.CICS1.DFHSHUNT *DASDONLY*
SYSPLEX.LOGREC.ALLRECS *DASDONLY*
  SYSNAME: ZOSB
DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
  GROUP: PRODUCTION
SYSPLEX.OPERLOG*DASDONLY*
  SYSNAME: ZOSB
DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
 DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
   GROUP: PRODUCTION
 ZOSB.DFHLOG.MODEL  *DASDONLY*
 ZOSB.DFHSHUNT.MODEL*DASDONLY*

 NUMBER OF LOGSTREAMS:  18


Do we have any luck on stopping this error.

Regards,
Jags

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Barbara Nitz  wrote:

> >2) OS Version is  : 1.8
> The message id might have changed since then, as 1.8 is out of service. In
> any case, the D C,HC putput clearly shows that you still have a syslog and
> hence a hardcopy log.
>
> >3) Ouput of command : /D LOGGER,LOGSTREAM.
> You neglected to provide the status of the OPERLOG log stream. You also
> neglected to provide the error you're getting in sdsf when you try to
> access
> operlog and/or syslog.
>
> From your wording ("we are having a trouble in accessing the SYSLOG"), I
> also assume that you have a problem with SDSF, not with operlog. There
> shouldn't be any problem with issuing the commands in SDSF.U (the user
> log),
> as that doesn't access the hardcopy log for display.
>
> Barbara Nitz
>
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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[R Hey]

I find it very hard to believe that:

"we use MVS/MF only because we have old APPL which wd be expensive to 
convert to Win/Linx/Ux"

It has taken 20+ years to develope & improve all the 
Online/Trnx/Batch/Monitor/Tool/Plex/HSM/SMS/DB for MF, because they were 
needed to run IT.

Are all these available today on Win/Linx/Ux today?
Do they have as good of a RAS that MF does?
Does Win/Linx/Ux provide Vertical/Horizontal growth, CF, ... ?

Can a a 'new' big Bank/Ins Co not run MF today?

Rez

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Re: DATACLASS

[Mike Schwab]

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Ron Hawkins
 wrote:
> Well, in that case no program allocates a dataset listed in JCL.
>
> Would it be acceptable if I said "The IEFBR14 example from the original post
> is one example of a
> program that would cause the allocation of such a dataset when it is
> executed with the accompanying JCL?"
>
> Otherwise, what is your suggestion so I will get it right next time?
>
> Ron
>
IEBGENER with a SYSUT1 DD DUMMY

-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Barbara Nitz]

>You don't care about the pink version? 

Oh Gerhard!  

Barbara

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Re: *CNZ4201E OPERLOG HAS FAILED

[Barbara Nitz]

>2) OS Version is  : 1.8
The message id might have changed since then, as 1.8 is out of service. In
any case, the D C,HC putput clearly shows that you still have a syslog and
hence a hardcopy log.

>3) Ouput of command : /D LOGGER,LOGSTREAM.
You neglected to provide the status of the OPERLOG log stream. You also
neglected to provide the error you're getting in sdsf when you try to access
operlog and/or syslog.

>From your wording ("we are having a trouble in accessing the SYSLOG"), I
also assume that you have a problem with SDSF, not with operlog. There
shouldn't be any problem with issuing the commands in SDSF.U (the user log),
as that doesn't access the hardcopy log for display.

Barbara Nitz

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Gerhard Postpischil]

On 4/4/2011 4:40 PM, Dan Skomsky, PSTI wrote:

"I'll give you my green/yellow/white card when you pry it from my cold, dead
hands!"


You don't care about the pink version? 

Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

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Re: *CNZ4201E OPERLOG HAS FAILED

[jagadishan perumal]

Hi,

Output of the command : D C,HC :

RESPONSE=ZOSB
 IEE889I 11.26.51 CONSOLE DISPLAY 468
 MSG: CURR=0LIM=1500 RPLY:CURR=1LIM=20   SYS=ZOSB  PFK=00
  CONSOLEID  --- SPECIFICATIONS ---
  SYSLOG COND=H  AUTH=CMDS NBUF=N/A
 ROUTCDE=ALL
 NO CONSOLES MEET SPECIFIED CRITERIA

2) OS Version is  : 1.8

3) Ouput of command : /D LOGGER,LOGSTREAM.

RESPONSE=ZOSB
 IXG601I   11.28.00  LOGGER DISPLAY 669
 INVENTORY INFORMATION BY LOGSTREAM
 LOGSTREAM  STRUCTURE#CONN  STATUS
 -  --- --
 ATR.CTSPLEX.ARCHIVE*DASDONLY*   01 IN USE
   SYSNAME: ZOSB
 DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
   GROUP: PRODUCTION
 ATR.CTSPLEX.DELAYED.UR *DASDONLY*   01 IN USE
   SYSNAME: ZOSB
 DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
   GROUP: PRODUCTION
 ATR.CTSPLEX.MAIN.UR*DASDONLY*   01 IN USE
   SYSNAME: ZOSB
 DUPLEXING: STAGING DATA SET
   GROUP: PRODUCTION
 ATR.CTSPLEX.RESTART*DASDONLY*   01 IN USE

The entire command output was not able to paste since we are having a
trouble in accessing the SYSLOG.


Regards.
Jags

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Barbara Nitz  wrote:

> >Also we are
> >not able to access the LOG option from SDSF panel.
>
> What error message are you getting in SDSF?
>
>
> The response to a v operlog,hardcpy command is a CNZ4100I message issued in
> response to the internal command D C,HC:
>
> CNZ4100I 07.47.57 CONSOLE DISPLAY 041
> CONSOLES MATCHING COMMAND: D C,HC
> MSG:CURR=0LIM=3000 RPLY:CURR=13   LIM=99SYS= PFK=00
> HARDCOPY  LOG=(SYSLOG,OPERLOG)  CMDLEVEL=CMDS
>  ROUT=(ALL)
> LOG BUFFERS IN USE: 0   LOG BUFFER LIMIT: 1000
>
>
> What release of z/OS are you on?
>
> What *status* is your operlog logstream in? D logger,logstream
>  Barbara Nitz
>
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Re: *CNZ4201E OPERLOG HAS FAILED

[Barbara Nitz]

>Also we are
>not able to access the LOG option from SDSF panel.

What error message are you getting in SDSF?


The response to a v operlog,hardcpy command is a CNZ4100I message issued in
response to the internal command D C,HC:

CNZ4100I 07.47.57 CONSOLE DISPLAY 041  
CONSOLES MATCHING COMMAND: D C,HC  
MSG:CURR=0LIM=3000 RPLY:CURR=13   LIM=99SYS= PFK=00
HARDCOPY  LOG=(SYSLOG,OPERLOG)  CMDLEVEL=CMDS  
  ROUT=(ALL)   
LOG BUFFERS IN USE: 0   LOG BUFFER LIMIT: 1000 


What release of z/OS are you on?

What *status* is your operlog logstream in? D logger,logstream
Barbara Nitz

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Re: *CNZ4201E OPERLOG HAS FAILED

[jagadishan perumal]

Hi,

I didnt find any IXG related messages, This error message was popping out at
the Console and giving the below command didnt help it anymore. Also we are
not able to access the LOG option from SDSF panel. We are not in Coupling
facility its a DASD-only logstream only. Prior to this message we just got a
message as : IEE828E SOME MESSAGES NOW SENT TO HARDCOPY.


Output of the command :v operlog,hardcpy

RESPONSE=ZOSB
 IEE889I 11.07.03 CONSOLE DISPLAY 795
 MSG: CURR=0LIM=1500 RPLY:CURR=1LIM=20   SYS=ZOSB  PFK=00
  CONSOLEID  --- SPECIFICATIONS ---
  SYSLOG COND=H  AUTH=CMDS NBUF=N/A
 ROUTCDE=ALL
  OPERLOGCOND=H  AUTH=CMDS NBUF=N/A
 ROUTCDE=ALL
 LOG BUFFERS IN USE:0  LOG BUFFER LIMIT: 1000



On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Barbara Nitz  wrote:

> >*CNZ4201E OPERLOG HAS FAILED
> >/v operlog,hardcpy but no luck.
>
> What message exactly are you getting in response to that command? Did
> operlog work before?
>
> Are you using a CF log stream or a DASD-only logstream? What is the status
> of the operlog logstream?
>
> Were there any messages prefixed IXG around the time the cnz4201e appeared?
>
> Barbara Nitz
>
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Re: *CNZ4201E OPERLOG HAS FAILED

[Barbara Nitz]

>*CNZ4201E OPERLOG HAS FAILED
>/v operlog,hardcpy but no luck.

What message exactly are you getting in response to that command? Did
operlog work before?

Are you using a CF log stream or a DASD-only logstream? What is the status
of the operlog logstream?

Were there any messages prefixed IXG around the time the cnz4201e appeared? 

Barbara Nitz

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Re: mainframe fresher

[Ed Gould]

Hello,

It's unbelievably difficult to find a mainframe job with my current
professional experience so I decided to write this mail as my last try
to remain in the mainframe world.



Same here in the US. do not feel alone.
I know some guys that have been looking for 8 years. 

If you are looking a guy with my skills and knowledge please write me a
message.


There are companies that do hire foriegn nationals but you need a green card 
and 
that can be a wait. I do know there are tricks that are played to sort f get 
around it (look ast youtube.com and search on programmers guild)

For more details please follow the link in my signature.

Thanks for your time.

-- 
Przemyslaw Kupisz
http://www.linkedin.com/in/pkupisz

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*CNZ4201E OPERLOG HAS FAILED

[jagadishan perumal]

Hi,

We are getting the below error message in our SR queue, for the given below
message we gave the command : *

/v operlog,hardcpy but no luck.



*CNZ4201E OPERLOG HAS FAILED



Could anyone please guide me on.



Regards,

Jags
*

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Re: DATACLASS

[Ron Hawkins]

Well, in that case no program allocates a dataset listed in JCL.

Would it be acceptable if I said "The IEFBR14 example from the original post
is one example of a
program that would cause the allocation of such a dataset when it is
executed with the accompanying JCL?"

Otherwise, what is your suggestion so I will get it right next time?

Ron

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of
> Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 6:04 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] DATACLASS
> 
> In <029501cbf09d$743f5370$5cbdfa50$@hawkins1...@sbcglobal.net>, on
> 04/01/2011
>at 11:48 AM, Ron Hawkins  said:
> 
> >The IEFBR14 example from the original post is one example of a
> >program that would allocate such a dataset.
> 
> IEFBR14 doesn't allocate data sets.
> 
> --
>  Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
>  ISO position; see 
> We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
> (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
> 
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Re: DATACLASS

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <000f01cbf199$46178d30$d246a790$@mxg.com>, on 04/02/2011
   at 07:51 PM, Barry Merrill  said:

>It's all a matter of attitude; I turn 70 on
>April 19th, but that's only 21 Celsius.

I'll be 103 on June 10, but some folks will claim that I'll only be
43.
 
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Re: Determining if address space is swapped out

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <00a901cbf2dd$40a37720$c1ea6560$@mcn.org>, on 04/04/2011
   at 08:30 AM, Charles Mills  said:

>(I do like OUCBGOI, documented as "transitioning into core." I
>thought we had pretty much transitioned out of core about forty years
>ago.)

I believe that DEC continued offering core as an option for
applications that required nonvolatile memory, and I believe that it
remained in use for hostile environments long after it disappeared
from data centers. Magnetic thin film memory, OTOH, pretty much
disappeared well before core did.
 
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Re: FTP question

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In ,
on 04/01/2011
   at 06:56 PM, "Grinsell, Don"  said:

>Check out the FTP Client API for REXX in the CS: IP Programmer's
>Guide and Reference.

Wasn't the OP looking for a windoze client rather than a z/OS client?
 
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Re: Quoting Text (Was DATACLASS)

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <41D49BB880304E6097580F2D7D322768@ericnbPC>, on 04/02/2011
   at 11:53 AM, Eric Bielefeld  said:

>I usually delete all superfluous text when I reply, but left it all
>in for this message to make my point.  There are at least 5 of the
>thingies that  the listserver adds (maybe more), plus the one added
>by the quoted message,  plus the one that will be added by my
>message.  PLEASE delete the irrelevant messages and all of the
>IBM-Main added text.

Internet conventions call for starting with an attribution line,
quoting relevant text with a ">" prefix on every line and not quoting
signatures. Some e-mail software makes it easier to follow those
rules. However, in the case of IBM-MAIN the lines automatically added
at the end do not include a sig delimiter line ("-- "), preventing
e-mail clients from automatically dropping them from replies. So part
of the problem is in the listserv rather than just the individual
posters.

>I have to admit I had no idea what Ron Hawkins was talking about in
>his reply.  He said he was 033x.  What is that?

A fixed point value of 51.

>Now, if he said X'0033', that makes sense.

They both make sense, just not in the same programming language. For
that matter, so does '0033'X, which is a string rather than a number.
 
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Re: Quoting Text (Was DATACLASS)

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <6BEB829548CD43D2A81F005C1A0F5FC0@ericnbPC>, on 04/02/2011
   at 03:26 PM, Eric Bielefeld  said:

>I got one off list reply saying that 033x was the way to represent
>the number in Octal.

Ouch! I know of languages where 033 would be octal, but none in which
033X is.

>When I made my original post on this subject, I actually thought
>that the  number was in hex

It is in every language I know for which it is valid syntax.
 
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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <75588.66904...@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, on 04/04/2011
   at 01:32 PM, Scott Ford  said:

>But like someone pointed out on z/OS its a different world to do
>debugging,  sorry came from the z/OS - VM - VSE  DUMP/TRACE world..

It's a mixed bag. The mainframe world has better tools for dump
reading and problem tracking, but it doesn't have syntax directed
editors.
 
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Re: DATACLASS

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <029501cbf09d$743f5370$5cbdfa50$@hawkins1...@sbcglobal.net>, on
04/01/2011
   at 11:48 AM, Ron Hawkins  said:

>The IEFBR14 example from the original post is one example of a
>program that would allocate such a dataset.

IEFBR14 doesn't allocate data sets.
 
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Re: Floating point assembler code

[W. Kevin Kelley]

On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:09:29 -0400, O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C] 
 wrote:

>A colleague asked that the following query be posted:
>
>Are there any tutorials/samples for writing floating point assembler code. We 
need to work with the z/VM Performance data and it is stored in short floating 
point. Been playing in the Principles of Operation but have a bit of a time 
wrapping my head around floating point manipulation.
>

Dave,

The floating point instructions in some ways are easier to use than the integer 
instructions because you don't have to worry about scaling and implied 
decimal points and all of that. The biggest problem with floating point is 
converting numbers to floating point and from floating point (any of the 3 
formats). Until the conversion instructions came along to assist in the effort, 
doing the conversions was pretty arcane. Now its easier, but still work. The 
book "IBM Assembler Language Programming" by Sharon Tuggle (long out of 
print I imagine) does discuss the hexadecimal floating instructions and does 
provide sample programs for converting into and out of hexadecimal floating 
point. I was the reviewer for the floating point section.

I still find TSO TEST useful for testing short segments of Assembler code, and 
one of my frustrations is that it only formats the original 4 floating point 
registers (0, 2, 4 and 6). It hasn't a clue that there are now 16 floating 
point 
registers or that there are now 3 floating point formats. In general, most 
testing environments give "lip service" to floating point.

W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
 

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

st...@trainersfriend.com (Steve Comstock) writes:
> But I am curious as to why the mainframe doesn't just go
> away: there must be one or more z/OS applications that the
> Windows folks just can't beat. Can you describe what applications
> are keeping the mainframe around? And why Windows folks can't
> make it go away?

lots of online/real-time stuff in the 70s & 80s was adding frontend that
started an operation ... but left it to (existing, frequently cobol)
legacy batch operation to complete (/settle) ... moved to "overnight
batch window".

in the 90s, the "overnight batch window" was becoming major bottleneck
... globalization both increasing workload ... as well as pressure to
significantly decrease length of the "overnight batch window".

in this period, some number of institutions spent billions on business
process reengineering that would leverage massive parallelization and
"killer micros" to implement "straight through processing" (running each
operation straight through to completion & eliminating need for
overnight batch window). however, it turned out that they used some
technology that wasn't adequately vetted ... and going into deployment
they found that it had overhead 100 times that of the cobol batch (and
wouldn't scale) ... totally swamping anticipated (parallel) throughput
improvements.

the resulting failures left huge scars on the industry and stalled
reengineering efforts for possibly decades. I was involved in taking a
whole new generation of parallelization to some industry bodies a couple
years ago ... and while it initially met very positive acceptance ... as
it moved up individual institutions ... it met quite a bit of resistance
... apparently even nearly a decade later ... the scars from the
failures were still fresh.

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Re: SMP/E BYPASS( HOLDSYS( ) )

[Skip Robinson]

I always use the vanilla HOLDSYS with no qualifications. On the other 
hand, I'm comfortable with letting sysmods fail for 'obvious' reasons like 
missing co-reqs that are not yet available. RC 8 is not scary if you can 
see in the CAUSER report that life will go on for now. Frankly, I'm 
suspicious of a sizable APPLY that gets RC 0. Something must be getting 
overlooked.  ;-)

.
.
JO.Skip Robinson
SCE Infrastructure Technology Services
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com



From:   Paul Gilmartin 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Date:   04/04/2011 03:08 PM
Subject:SMP/E BYPASS( HOLDSYS(  ) )
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List 



Why do programmers use "BYPASS( HOLDSYS(  ) )"
rather than merely BYPASS( HOLDSYSTEM )?  Are there some
reason codes to which they particularly want to be alerted
while others can be routinely bypassed by appearing in the
list?

What's the process?  Perhaps first:

APPLY CHECK BYPASS( HOLDSYS(  ) ) ...,
then resolve the unusual reason codes (GIM35965I) and do
APPLY BYPASS( HOLDSYSTEM ) ...?

(Just wondering what we should supply in our JCL samples.)

(In internal testing of PTFs, I'm inclined to supply a list
to detect typos in ++HOLD SYSTEM REASON( bogus ) ... MCS.)

Thanks,
gil


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SMP/E BYPASS( HOLDSYS( ) )

[Paul Gilmartin]

Why do programmers use "BYPASS( HOLDSYS(  ) )"
rather than merely BYPASS( HOLDSYSTEM )?  Are there some
reason codes to which they particularly want to be alerted
while others can be routinely bypassed by appearing in the
list?

What's the process?  Perhaps first:

APPLY CHECK BYPASS( HOLDSYS(  ) ) ...,
then resolve the unusual reason codes (GIM35965I) and do
APPLY BYPASS( HOLDSYSTEM ) ...?

(Just wondering what we should supply in our JCL samples.)

(In internal testing of PTFs, I'm inclined to supply a list
to detect typos in ++HOLD SYSTEM REASON( bogus ) ... MCS.)

Thanks,
gil

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Scott Ford]

Same here, we even get SB37 and SD37s...an Operator with basic e
Tony:

Same here, we even get SB37 and SD37s...an Operator with basic experience can 
resolve SB37's not a biggie...
 
Scott J Ford
 





From: Tony Harminc 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 5:08:34 PM
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

On 4 April 2011 16:27, Jim Mulder  wrote:

> On the other hand, for problems which occur intermittently in
> production environments and are not reproducible in the development
> environment, how do the debugging facilities available on Windows,
> Java and Unix in general compare to those facilities on z/OS?

Your point is good, but in my experience it's a matter of customer
expectations. Our products run on and interconnect z/OS and other
platforms. When there is a failure on z/OS, the customer's support
group typically sends us a dump and wants to know what happened.
Telling them we will "try to reproduce it in the lab" doesn't cut it;
they expect us to be able to diagnose and fix the problem based on the
available evidence, and to fail to do so is the exception for them and
us. Reproducing the problem is only to confirm that the diagnosis and
fix are correct.

If we get a similar failure on Windows at the same customer site, they
have no expectation that we will be able to resolve anything based on
the report. Indeed they rarely send any supporting evidence beyond a
description of the bad behaviour, and perhaps a log file. Beyond that,
the expectation is that we will supply further instructions to turn on
debug/trace mode (that is not normally enabled in production for
performance reasons) and try to reproduce the problem. Even though
platforms like Windows, UNIX, and Java have dumps, they are rarely
used, and the tools and techniques necessary to use them are not
widely understood.

Perhaps naturally, the attitudes of our own support people and
developers follow to some extent. These attitudes clash when one of
our components that runs on z/OS UNIX is in the picture. With my MVS
roots, I often arrange to take a SLIP dump, but then I am the one who
has to turn that into C line numbers and variable contents for someone
to look at and analyse, and use to try to reproduce the problem.

As customers move work from z/OS, inevitably the support expectations
follow, and what should be a selling point for z/OS loses its
effectiveness.

Tony H.

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Scott Ford]

I totally agree. This situation has been shaping up for a long 
Steve:

I totally agree. This situation has been shaping up for a long time. 
Apparently, 
the work 'plan' is a 4 letter word
 
Scott J Ford
 





From: Steve Comstock 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 4:57:41 PM
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

On 4/4/2011 2:35 PM, Scott Ford wrote:
> Oh, yes, but people seem to forgot a lot of corporate data is kept on z/OS
> and probably in Cobol/Assembler/PL/1
> And a lot of these big corporate giants arent going to pay to convert the code
> to Linux/Windows...until they absolutely have to and the cheapest way 
possible.
>
>
> Scott J Ford

And they aren't going to pay to train the newbies how to
use the z/OS platform - at least not so far. (Well, actually,
one or two have, but nowhere near enough to cover the gap.)

And back to the OP who was looking for a job. Young, educated,
with z experience.


>
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: "Givens, Dennis W."
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 4:29:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher
>
> That is the second item I hear frequently when talks come around to platform
> selection.
> 1) Very expensive
> 2) Can find JAVA programmers a lot easier than COBOL.
>


-- 

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
  + Training your people is an excellent investment

* Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment
    for training dollars at
  http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Sam Siegel]

> We helped kill a z/OS to Windows conversion meeting with some simple 
> questions.
>
> Q. "This batch process takes 4 hours to run on z/OS. How long would you 
> estimate your converted process would take?"
> A. "About the same amount of time."
> Q. "Suppose the process terminates abnormally for some reason after about 2 
> hours. We get a dump to address the problem and generally fix it from there. 
> Of course, we then need the full 4 hours to run the fixed program. How would 
> this be done on Windows?"
> A. "Recompile the program with debugging enabled and then single step the 
> program from the command line until the problem occurs."
> Q. "Are you kidding? Single step the program with the programmer monitoring 
> it?"
> A. "Yes."
> --- everybody faints in shock about how long that would take. And how much 
> caffeine and pizza would be consumed.
> Vendor when everybody revives: "That is why once the conversion is completed 
> and you are running the mainframe apps on Windows, you need to do a business 
> process analysis to change how these processes are done. But that is not 
> covered in this contract."
> --- some managers have another fainting spell.
>
> That is basically what happened. I don't know how Windows people do debugging 
> of an aborted production program. The above does match how I used Turbo 
> Pascal back when I did some minor Windows programming (Win95 time frame).
>


http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms680369(v=vs.85).aspx

this is really a developer training issue on windows.  Windows itself
support (for a long time now) both mini-dumps (z/OS problem state type
information) and full crash dump (operating system memory areas and
potentially cross memory, memory areas).

However, if you ask, most Windows developers will not know about it.

It seems to be a platform culture issue.

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Tony Harminc]

On 4 April 2011 16:27, Jim Mulder  wrote:

> On the other hand, for problems which occur intermittently in
> production environments and are not reproducible in the development
> environment, how do the debugging facilities available on Windows,
> Java and Unix in general compare to those facilities on z/OS?

Your point is good, but in my experience it's a matter of customer
expectations. Our products run on and interconnect z/OS and other
platforms. When there is a failure on z/OS, the customer's support
group typically sends us a dump and wants to know what happened.
Telling them we will "try to reproduce it in the lab" doesn't cut it;
they expect us to be able to diagnose and fix the problem based on the
available evidence, and to fail to do so is the exception for them and
us. Reproducing the problem is only to confirm that the diagnosis and
fix are correct.

If we get a similar failure on Windows at the same customer site, they
have no expectation that we will be able to resolve anything based on
the report. Indeed they rarely send any supporting evidence beyond a
description of the bad behaviour, and perhaps a log file. Beyond that,
the expectation is that we will supply further instructions to turn on
debug/trace mode (that is not normally enabled in production for
performance reasons) and try to reproduce the problem. Even though
platforms like Windows, UNIX, and Java have dumps, they are rarely
used, and the tools and techniques necessary to use them are not
widely understood.

Perhaps naturally, the attitudes of our own support people and
developers follow to some extent. These attitudes clash when one of
our components that runs on z/OS UNIX is in the picture. With my MVS
roots, I often arrange to take a SLIP dump, but then I am the one who
has to turn that into C line numbers and variable contents for someone
to look at and analyse, and use to try to reproduce the problem.

As customers move work from z/OS, inevitably the support expectations
follow, and what should be a selling point for z/OS loses its
effectiveness.

Tony H.

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Steve Comstock]

On 4/4/2011 2:35 PM, Scott Ford wrote:

Oh, yes, but people seem to forgot a lot of corporate data is kept on z/OS
and probably in Cobol/Assembler/PL/1
And a lot of these big corporate giants arent going to pay to convert the code
to Linux/Windows...until they absolutely have to and the cheapest way possible.


Scott J Ford


And they aren't going to pay to train the newbies how to
use the z/OS platform - at least not so far. (Well, actually,
one or two have, but nowhere near enough to cover the gap.)

And back to the OP who was looking for a job. Young, educated,
with z experience.









From: "Givens, Dennis W."
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 4:29:30 PM
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

That is the second item I hear frequently when talks come around to platform
selection.
1) Very expensive
2) Can find JAVA programmers a lot easier than COBOL.




--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
  + Training your people is an excellent investment

* Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment
for training dollars at
  http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[McKown, John]

> -Original Message-

> 
>   On the other hand, for problems which occur intermittently in
> production environments and are not reproducible in the development
> environment, how do the debugging facilities available on Windows,
> Java and Unix in general compare to those facilities on z/OS? 
> 
> Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY

We helped kill a z/OS to Windows conversion meeting with some simple questions. 

Q. "This batch process takes 4 hours to run on z/OS. How long would you 
estimate your converted process would take?"
A. "About the same amount of time."
Q. "Suppose the process terminates abnormally for some reason after about 2 
hours. We get a dump to address the problem and generally fix it from there. Of 
course, we then need the full 4 hours to run the fixed program. How would this 
be done on Windows?"
A. "Recompile the program with debugging enabled and then single step the 
program from the command line until the problem occurs."
Q. "Are you kidding? Single step the program with the programmer monitoring it?"
A. "Yes."
--- everybody faints in shock about how long that would take. And how much 
caffeine and pizza would be consumed.
Vendor when everybody revives: "That is why once the conversion is completed 
and you are running the mainframe apps on Windows, you need to do a business 
process analysis to change how these processes are done. But that is not 
covered in this contract."
--- some managers have another fainting spell.

That is basically what happened. I don't know how Windows people do debugging 
of an aborted production program. The above does match how I used Turbo Pascal 
back when I did some minor Windows programming (Win95 time frame).

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Dan Skomsky, PSTI]

"I'll give you my green/yellow/white card when you pry it from my cold, dead
hands!"

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Scott Ford
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 3:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

But Corporate America is going to get a rude awaking wh Amen, Sam.

But Corporate America is going to get a rude awaking when us 'dinosaurs'
call it quits.these 30+ yr olds dont want to know about z/OS and IBM
...

 
Scott J Ford



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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Mike Schwab]

S/360 S/370 limits forced CICS / IMS applications to be pseudo conversational

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Steve Comstock  wrote:
>
> John,
>

> But I am curious as to why the mainframe doesn't just go
> away: there must be one or more z/OS applications that the
> Windows folks just can't beat. Can you describe what applications
> are keeping the mainframe around? And why Windows folks can't
> make it go away?

S/360 S/370 limits forced CICS / IMS applications to be pseudo
conversational with a bare bones utilization of core memory, between
transaction temporary data storeage, database disk space, response
time, versus windows which uses much more resources per transaction.
Maybe the z390.org project will get PCs up to speed.
-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Scott Ford]

Oh, yes, but people seem to forgot a lot of corporate data is kept on z/OS 
and probably in Cobol/Assembler/PL/1
And a lot of these big corporate giants arent going to pay to convert the code 
to Linux/Windows...until they absolutely have to and the cheapest way possible.

 
Scott J Ford
 





From: "Givens, Dennis W." 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 4:29:30 PM
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

That is the second item I hear frequently when talks come around to platform 
selection.
1) Very expensive
2) Can find JAVA programmers a lot easier than COBOL.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Scott Ford
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 3:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

But Corporate America is going to get a rude awaking wh
Amen, Sam.

But Corporate America is going to get a rude awaking when us 'dinosaurs' call it
quits.these 30+ yr olds dont want to know about z/OS and IBM ...


Scott J Ford






From: "Knutson, Sam" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 4:20:47 PM
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

It is usually where some significant corporate data lives.  The cost to rip and
replace everything is usually prohibitive and would be very disruptive so layer
after layer of application code is built on distributed platforms. Eventually
something on those distributed platforms does a business transaction on the
System z back end that gets hardened into DB2, IMS, etc.  Follow the data!  The
mainframe is still the most cost efficient, secure, available platform for data
of record.


        Best Regards,

                Sam Knutson, GEICO
                System z Team Leader
                mailto:sknut...@geico.com
                (office)
301.986.3574begin_of_the_skype_highlighting  301.986.3574  end_of_the_skype_highlightingbegin_of_the_skype_highlighting 
             301.986.3574      end_of_the_skype_highlighting

                (cell)
301.996.1318begin_of_the_skype_highlighting  301.996.1318  end_of_the_skype_highlightingbegin_of_the_skype_highlighting 
             301.996.1318      end_of_the_skype_highlighting


"Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast..."


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Steve Comstock
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 4:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher



But I am curious as to why the mainframe doesn't just go
away: there must be one or more z/OS applications that the Windows folks just
can't beat. Can you describe what applications are keeping the mainframe around?
And why Windows folks can't make it go away?




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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Sam Siegel]

>
>  On the other hand, for problems which occur intermittently in
> production environments and are not reproducible in the development
> environment, how do the debugging facilities available on Windows,
> Java and Unix in general compare to those facilities on z/OS?
>

> Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY
>


This is an area where z/OS really does out-shine all the rest.  Both
Windows and Unix platforms have the ability to generate SVC type
dumps.  On unix it is a core file on Windows it is called a mini-dump.

However, the system and applications staff on Windows and Unix
typically do not know how to read a 'dump' and typically attempt to
recreate the problem on a test system.

The staff are just not used to thinking at that level and do not have
the practical experience at that level either.

Good point!

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Scott Ford]

I like some of the language debuggers in windoze, sorry I am a bit of a Linux 
person, I use Windows. 

The Visual Studio has come a long way and is pretty good. I also agree Netbeans 
is pretty good. 

But like someone pointed out on z/OS its a different world to do debugging, 
sorry came from the z/OS - VM - VSE  DUMP/TRACE world..
 
Scott J Ford
 





From: Sam Siegel 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 4:29:17 PM
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Scott Ford  wrote:
> Yep, I agree with Sam and John, been at singce 360/20 days and Netbeans or 
vc++
> or vc# has better debuggers and editors than or friendly z/OS.
> In regard to inventing something, I am a developer, but my time is better 
spend
> in areas making money for the guys i work for.
> Besides, the new kids coming in what all the smoke/mirrors/snakebite oil to do
> everything for them.

I know that Scott was a little tongue-in-cheek on his response.  Based
personal experience  in the UK (within the last 2 years) a large
financial service provider created, from the ground up, a clearing and
settlement system in Java and iLog.  There are over 25,000 software
elements and several million lines of code.

The development and debugging tools in these environments helped
tremendously but most assuredly did not design or write the
application.


>
>
> I dont know about everyone else, no one handed the work I do to me on a silver
> platter, I came up through the ranks..
>
> Scott J Ford
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Sam Siegel 
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 3:56:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher
>
> 
>
>> But typing COBOL code in ISPF is literally slower for me than typing Java 
code
>>in Netbeans. Due in part to Netbean's intelligent auto-completion. When I 
start
>>typing a variable name, about 80%+ of the time, Netbeans has a "in line"
>>suggestion which I can select with a simple press of the ENTER key. ISPF has 
no
>>smarts at all like this. RDz may, I don't know. Part of this is due to the 
more
>>intelligent integration of the Java compiler with Netbeans. I've never had
>>anything even vaguely similar to this on the mainframe. With Netbeans, I
>>instantly know when I've misspelled something. With ISPF, I don't generally 
>know
>>until I do a compile. Which takes a while around here to due to the CPU
>>constraints. Of course, what is needed is a good COBOL IDE on Windows for our
>>programmers. One which knows COBOL syntax and can at least catch some variable
>>name misspellings instantly. This would be far too costly to implement on the
>>mainframe, even if possible.
>>
> 
>
> The development and debugging facilities avaible on Windows, Java and
> Unix in general are so far superior to those facilities on z/OS it is
> similar to comparing a private automobiles from the Model A era (1927
> - 1931) to high end private automobiles (Bentley continental GT or
> S-series Mercedes).
>
> Basically there is no comparison.
>
>> --
>> John McKown
>> Systems Engineer IV
>> IT
>>
>> Administrative Services Group
>>
>> HealthMarkets(r)
>>
>> 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
>> (817) 255-3225 phone *
>> john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or
>>proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
>>the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
>>HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the
>>insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance
>>Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The 
>MEGA
>>Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
>>
>>
>>
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-

Re: Mainframe Fresher

[McKown, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 3:06 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher
> 

> 
> John,
> 
> Based on the above, and what you have shared with us about
> the general IT and corporate atmosphere and your health
> issues, it must be damned difficult to keep your spirits
> up. I don't know, perhaps you don't.

My religious beliefs are my foundation. 

> 
> But I am curious as to why the mainframe doesn't just go
> away: there must be one or more z/OS applications that the
> Windows folks just can't beat. Can you describe what applications
> are keeping the mainframe around? And why Windows folks can't
> make it go away?

We own too much historical data and processing. The cost to convert our VSAM 
files to MS SQL files, convert the current CICS transactions and batch programs 
to something runnable on Windows, and the cost to convert the batch processes 
(JCL) has a return of investment of about 4 to 5 years. NYC management says 
that is too long and has a large up-front capital outlay. It is, short term, 
cheaper to stay on z/OS. What is happening is our company is transitioning from 
a normal Health Insurance company to a supplemental insurance company (kind of 
like Aflac, but no duck). As we do this, our policy base on the mainframe 
shrinks and the new stuff is all on the distributed side (lots of apps on 
agent's laptops, tablets, and smartphones). So it is simply less expensive to 
just let the z die a gradual death. I believe they sincerely want the z dead 
and gone. But the assassin costs too much. I don't know about all companies. 
But around here "long term" seems to be "next month" . S!
 eriously, most things around here seem to be on a quarterly basis. I'm trying 
to figure out the difference between "quick and agile" and "indecisive". But 
the new business is off to a strong start. Not that it will help the z. 

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
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insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The 
MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

 

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Sam Siegel]

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:24 PM, Scott Ford  wrote:
> But Corporate America is going to get a rude awaking wh
> Amen, Sam.
>
> But Corporate America is going to get a rude awaking when us 'dinosaurs' call 
> it
> quits.these 30+ yr olds dont want to know about z/OS and IBM ...

I completely agree with this!
>
>
> Scott J Ford
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: "Knutson, Sam" 
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 4:20:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher
>
> It is usually where some significant corporate data lives.  The cost to rip 
> and
> replace everything is usually prohibitive and would be very disruptive so 
> layer
> after layer of application code is built on distributed platforms. Eventually
> something on those distributed platforms does a business transaction on the
> System z back end that gets hardened into DB2, IMS, etc.  Follow the data!  
> The
> mainframe is still the most cost efficient, secure, available platform for 
> data
> of record.
>
>
>     Best Regards,
>
>     Sam Knutson, GEICO
>     System z Team Leader
>     mailto:sknut...@geico.com
>     (office)
> 301.986.3574begin_of_the_skype_highlighting  301.986.3574  end_of_the_skype_highlighting
>
>     (cell)
> 301.996.1318begin_of_the_skype_highlighting  301.996.1318  end_of_the_skype_highlighting
>
>
> "Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast..."
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
> Steve Comstock
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 4:06 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher
>
> 
>
> But I am curious as to why the mainframe doesn't just go
> away: there must be one or more z/OS applications that the Windows folks just
> can't beat. Can you describe what applications are keeping the mainframe 
> around?
> And why Windows folks can't make it go away?
>
>
>
> 
> This email/fax message is for the sole use of the intended
> recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information.
> Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this
> email/fax is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> destroy all paper and electronic copies of the original message.
>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Givens, Dennis W.]

That is the second item I hear frequently when talks come around to platform 
selection.
1) Very expensive
2) Can find JAVA programmers a lot easier than COBOL.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Scott Ford
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 3:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

But Corporate America is going to get a rude awaking wh
Amen, Sam.

But Corporate America is going to get a rude awaking when us 'dinosaurs' call it
quits.these 30+ yr olds dont want to know about z/OS and IBM ...


Scott J Ford






From: "Knutson, Sam" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 4:20:47 PM
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

It is usually where some significant corporate data lives.  The cost to rip and
replace everything is usually prohibitive and would be very disruptive so layer
after layer of application code is built on distributed platforms. Eventually
something on those distributed platforms does a business transaction on the
System z back end that gets hardened into DB2, IMS, etc.  Follow the data!  The
mainframe is still the most cost efficient, secure, available platform for data
of record.


Best Regards,

Sam Knutson, GEICO
System z Team Leader
mailto:sknut...@geico.com
(office)
301.986.3574begin_of_the_skype_highlighting  301.986.3574  
end_of_the_skype_highlighting

(cell)
301.996.1318begin_of_the_skype_highlighting  301.996.1318  
end_of_the_skype_highlighting


"Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast..."


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Steve Comstock
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 4:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher



But I am curious as to why the mainframe doesn't just go
away: there must be one or more z/OS applications that the Windows folks just
can't beat. Can you describe what applications are keeping the mainframe around?
And why Windows folks can't make it go away?




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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Sam Siegel]

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Scott Ford  wrote:
> Yep, I agree with Sam and John, been at singce 360/20 days and Netbeans or 
> vc++
> or vc# has better debuggers and editors than or friendly z/OS.
> In regard to inventing something, I am a developer, but my time is better 
> spend
> in areas making money for the guys i work for.
> Besides, the new kids coming in what all the smoke/mirrors/snakebite oil to do
> everything for them.

I know that Scott was a little tongue-in-cheek on his response.  Based
personal experience  in the UK (within the last 2 years) a large
financial service provider created, from the ground up, a clearing and
settlement system in Java and iLog.  There are over 25,000 software
elements and several million lines of code.

The development and debugging tools in these environments helped
tremendously but most assuredly did not design or write the
application.


>
>
> I dont know about everyone else, no one handed the work I do to me on a silver
> platter, I came up through the ranks..
>
> Scott J Ford
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Sam Siegel 
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 3:56:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher
>
> 
>
>> But typing COBOL code in ISPF is literally slower for me than typing Java 
>> code
>>in Netbeans. Due in part to Netbean's intelligent auto-completion. When I 
>>start
>>typing a variable name, about 80%+ of the time, Netbeans has a "in line"
>>suggestion which I can select with a simple press of the ENTER key. ISPF has 
>>no
>>smarts at all like this. RDz may, I don't know. Part of this is due to the 
>>more
>>intelligent integration of the Java compiler with Netbeans. I've never had
>>anything even vaguely similar to this on the mainframe. With Netbeans, I
>>instantly know when I've misspelled something. With ISPF, I don't generally 
>>know
>>until I do a compile. Which takes a while around here to due to the CPU
>>constraints. Of course, what is needed is a good COBOL IDE on Windows for our
>>programmers. One which knows COBOL syntax and can at least catch some variable
>>name misspellings instantly. This would be far too costly to implement on the
>>mainframe, even if possible.
>>
> 
>
> The development and debugging facilities avaible on Windows, Java and
> Unix in general are so far superior to those facilities on z/OS it is
> similar to comparing a private automobiles from the Model A era (1927
> - 1931) to high end private automobiles (Bentley continental GT or
> S-series Mercedes).
>
> Basically there is no comparison.
>
>> --
>> John McKown
>> Systems Engineer IV
>> IT
>>
>> Administrative Services Group
>>
>> HealthMarkets(r)
>>
>> 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
>> (817) 255-3225 phone *
>> john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or
>>proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
>>the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
>>HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the
>>insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance
>>Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The 
>>MEGA
>>Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
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>
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Re: Quoting Text (Was DATACLASS)

[Scott Ford]

lol, after working in Europe in a French speaking country and having to speak 
the language I love the Australian
I was told in the UK, I speak american not english, at first I didnt get it and 
then I broke out laughing...

BTW: Jonathan i write in most of those languages and then some
 
Scott J Ford
 





From: Jonathan Goossen 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 1:48:58 PM
Subject: Re: Quoting Text (Was DATACLASS)

If your going to list of languages, besides American, I read/write COBOL, 
Pascal, Fortran, C, C++, Forth, SAS, REXX, CList, Basic, 6502 assembler, 
PDP1103 assembler, Univac 1100 assembler, and probably a few more that I 
have forgotten about..

As you can see, I only know one human language. And after 49 years, I 
don't expect that to change. Computer languagers are much more fun.

Thank you and have a Terrific day!

Jonathan Goossen, ACS, CL
Tape Specialist
ACT Mainframe Storage Group
651-361-4541begin_of_the_skype_highlighting  651-361-4541  end_of_the_skype_highlighting


IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 04/04/2011 
12:22:05 PM:

> From: Ron Hawkins 
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Date: 04/04/2011 12:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Quoting Text (Was DATACLASS)
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> 
> I'm not sure if I can help with your French. My mother tongue is 
Australian
> but I also speak English, Canadian, New Zealandish, Singlish, and a bit 
of
> Cebuano. I thought I spoke American, but no one here understands me.
> 

This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it may
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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Jim Mulder]

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 04/04/2011 
03:56:12 PM:

> > But typing COBOL code in ISPF is literally slower for me than 
> typing Java code in Netbeans. Due in part to Netbean's intelligent 
> auto-completion. When I start typing a variable name, about 80%+ of 
> the time, Netbeans has a "in line" suggestion which I can select 
> with a simple press of the ENTER key. ISPF has no smarts at all like
> this. RDz may, I don't know. Part of this is due to the more 
> intelligent integration of the Java compiler with Netbeans. I've 
> never had anything even vaguely similar to this on the mainframe. 
> With Netbeans, I instantly know when I've misspelled something. With
> ISPF, I don't generally know until I do a compile. Which takes a 
> while around here to due to the CPU constraints. Of course, what is 
> needed is a good COBOL IDE on Windows for our programmers. One which
> knows COBOL syntax and can at least catch some variable name 
> misspellings instantly. This would be far too costly to implement on
> the mainframe, even if possible.
> >
> 
> 
> The development and debugging facilities avaible on Windows, Java and
> Unix in general are so far superior to those facilities on z/OS it is
> similar to comparing a private automobiles from the Model A era (1927
> - 1931) to high end private automobiles (Bentley continental GT or
> S-series Mercedes).
> 
> Basically there is no comparison.

  On the other hand, for problems which occur intermittently in
production environments and are not reproducible in the development
environment, how do the debugging facilities available on Windows,
Java and Unix in general compare to those facilities on z/OS? 

Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Scott Ford]

But Corporate America is going to get a rude awaking wh
Amen, Sam.

But Corporate America is going to get a rude awaking when us 'dinosaurs' call 
it 
quits.these 30+ yr olds dont want to know about z/OS and IBM ...

 
Scott J Ford
 





From: "Knutson, Sam" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 4:20:47 PM
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

It is usually where some significant corporate data lives.  The cost to rip and 
replace everything is usually prohibitive and would be very disruptive so layer 
after layer of application code is built on distributed platforms. Eventually 
something on those distributed platforms does a business transaction on the 
System z back end that gets hardened into DB2, IMS, etc.  Follow the data!  The 
mainframe is still the most cost efficient, secure, available platform for data 
of record.  


    Best Regards, 

    Sam Knutson, GEICO 
    System z Team Leader 
    mailto:sknut...@geico.com 
    (office)  
301.986.3574begin_of_the_skype_highlighting  301.986.3574  end_of_the_skype_highlighting
 
    (cell) 
301.996.1318begin_of_the_skype_highlighting  301.996.1318  end_of_the_skype_highlighting  

    
"Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast..." 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Steve Comstock
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 4:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher



But I am curious as to why the mainframe doesn't just go
away: there must be one or more z/OS applications that the Windows folks just 
can't beat. Can you describe what applications are keeping the mainframe 
around? 
And why Windows folks can't make it go away?




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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Sam Siegel]

> John,
>
> Based on the above, and what you have shared with us about
> the general IT and corporate atmosphere and your health
> issues, it must be damned difficult to keep your spirits
> up. I don't know, perhaps you don't.
>
> But I am curious as to why the mainframe doesn't just go
> away: there must be one or more z/OS applications that the
> Windows folks just can't beat. Can you describe what applications
> are keeping the mainframe around? And why Windows folks can't
> make it go away?

Cost of conversion for proprietary vertical and horizontal
applications.  The R&D cost of in house applications is amortised over
1 user.  The R&D cost of commercially available applications is
amortized over the end-user

Typically for In house applications, there is only here-and-now
expense related with rewriting an existing application to a new HW/SW
platform.

So existing applications don't get rewritten and new applications are
done in new technology.  In-house applications in the 'new technology'
are the Legacy applications of tomorrow.


>


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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Knutson, Sam]

It is usually where some significant corporate data lives.   The cost to rip 
and replace everything is usually prohibitive and would be very disruptive so 
layer after layer of application code is built on distributed platforms. 
Eventually something on those distributed platforms does a business transaction 
on the System z back end that gets hardened into DB2, IMS, etc.  Follow the 
data!  The mainframe is still the most cost efficient, secure, available 
platform for data of record.  

    Best Regards, 

    Sam Knutson, GEICO 
    System z Team Leader 
    mailto:sknut...@geico.com 
    (office)  301.986.3574 
    (cell) 301.996.1318  
    
"Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast..." 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Steve Comstock
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 4:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher



But I am curious as to why the mainframe doesn't just go
away: there must be one or more z/OS applications that the Windows folks just 
can't beat. Can you describe what applications are keeping the mainframe 
around? And why Windows folks can't make it go away?




This email/fax message is for the sole use of the intended
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Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this
email/fax is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Scott Ford]

Yep, I agree with Sam and John, been at singce 360/20 days and Netbeans or vc++ 
or vc# has better debuggers and editors than or friendly z/OS.
In regard to inventing something, I am a developer, but my time is better spend 
in areas making money for the guys i work for.
Besides, the new kids coming in what all the smoke/mirrors/snakebite oil to do 
everything for them. 


I dont know about everyone else, no one handed the work I do to me on a silver 
platter, I came up through the ranks..
 
Scott J Ford
 





From: Sam Siegel 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Mon, April 4, 2011 3:56:12 PM
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher



> But typing COBOL code in ISPF is literally slower for me than typing Java 
> code 
>in Netbeans. Due in part to Netbean's intelligent auto-completion. When I 
>start 
>typing a variable name, about 80%+ of the time, Netbeans has a "in line" 
>suggestion which I can select with a simple press of the ENTER key. ISPF has 
>no 
>smarts at all like this. RDz may, I don't know. Part of this is due to the 
>more 
>intelligent integration of the Java compiler with Netbeans. I've never had 
>anything even vaguely similar to this on the mainframe. With Netbeans, I 
>instantly know when I've misspelled something. With ISPF, I don't generally 
>know 
>until I do a compile. Which takes a while around here to due to the CPU 
>constraints. Of course, what is needed is a good COBOL IDE on Windows for our 
>programmers. One which knows COBOL syntax and can at least catch some variable 
>name misspellings instantly. This would be far too costly to implement on the 
>mainframe, even if possible.
>


The development and debugging facilities avaible on Windows, Java and
Unix in general are so far superior to those facilities on z/OS it is
similar to comparing a private automobiles from the Model A era (1927
- 1931) to high end private automobiles (Bentley continental GT or
S-series Mercedes).

Basically there is no comparison.

> --
> John McKown
> Systems Engineer IV
> IT
>
> Administrative Services Group
>
> HealthMarkets(r)
>
> 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
> (817) 255-3225 phone *
> john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
>proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
>the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
>HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
>insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
>Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The 
>MEGA 
>Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
>
>
>
> --
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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Steve Comstock]

On 4/4/2011 12:47 PM, McKown, John wrote:

I have a z/OS web site. It is fairly simple. Because nobody
really cares. "Web on z/OS? We do that on Windows! Does it
support running .NET? No? What a piece of junk!" My web site
main page has a set of links to a Windows Web server which
display mainframe statistics. Why Windows? Because the BMC
product which creates the graphs is Windows based. It has
another link to a z/OS page which does 3.4 type information
for some Solaris people so that they can do a fast check to
see if a mainframe dataset is available (saves doing a TSO
logon). The main use is to a RACF site on our z which allows
our Help Desk people maintain RACF users
(add/delete/revoke/resume/change password/display information).
I wrote that RACF application myself, in REXX and HTML. Mainly
because we can't afford a vendor product (according to
management who really would like the z to simply disappear).

Why not do new style development on the z/OS system? It costs
too much. How? We use subcapacity for billing. We hit 100% of
our MSU cap quite often (using Group Capacity on our z9BC).
If we add more in-house written applications, we will need to
increase our MSU cap. Which will have _every_ major vendor
lining up with hands out for upgrade fees and increased license
fees because our increase in MSU usage is obviously to run their
code more. Yeah, I'm P.O.'ed at vendors (though not all - we do
have some who charge us "one price for unlimited usage" and it's
very reasonable).

Also, I hate to say it (and perhaps it's only us), but Windows
and Linux development is much faster due to superior IDEs. We use
ISPF for development of COBOL programs. Writing Java code using
Netbeans on Linux is much faster than COBOL using ISPF and batch
compiles with CA-ENDEVOR. It is also easier to do testing than
with Xpeditor CICS or TSO. This is just speaking for what _I_ do.
I don't know what product the distributed (mainly Windows)
programmers actually use. I do know that they are mainly into .NET .

--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone .
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com


John,

Based on the above, and what you have shared with us about
the general IT and corporate atmosphere and your health
issues, it must be damned difficult to keep your spirits
up. I don't know, perhaps you don't.

But I am curious as to why the mainframe doesn't just go
away: there must be one or more z/OS applications that the
Windows folks just can't beat. Can you describe what applications
are keeping the mainframe around? And why Windows folks can't
make it go away?







-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 1:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher

On 4/4/2011 9:52 AM, john gilmore wrote:

Steve Comstock writes:



He looks like a bright young man, the kind we want to sustain our
favorite platform - but he can't find a job. And we on this list
know he is not alone.

This is the kind of reality we face if we don't, collectively and
individually, take positive actions.

Promote z/OS, get current ourselves, tell the stories of cool things
you can do in z/OS.



has prompted me to reflect that, while it is certainly true that
there are cool things that can be done with z/OS, I have not seen
a cool new z/OS application in many, many years.

IBM code, ISV code, or the like for z/OS that is cool?  Yes, sure.
But a cool new application?  No, emphatically no.

To describe the applications I see routinely as pedestrian would be
to overstate their merits.  The platform is very largely in

the hands

of fatuous, mediocre, risk-aversive crackpot realists who avoid new
technology reflexively: Les courtisans qui l'entourant n'ont rien
oublié et n'ont rien appris.

New blood and new ideas are certainly needed, but how to infuse
them into this tired environment is not at all clear to me.

Steve's post has the great merit that it does not look at our
current situation through rose-colored glasses.

John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA



But one of my points was: if you don't see it, _you_ should create it!


Perhaps some sort of surreptitious "skunk works" operation to develop
a demonstrable "cool application". You could lead the project in your
copious spare time, assisted by your merry band of cohorts. (Or is it
"band of merry cohorts"? I'm never quite sure.)


About two years ago I offered to prepare a small set of
webpages tailored
to each requestor. I got three requests, so I built small
sample websites,
including their corporate logo, and shipped them out. As far
as I know,
no one ever got around to installing them. Each sample
included 10 html
files as well as a number of supporting files.


I personally think hosting a website on z/OS (without WebSphere or
other charge for pro

Re: Retired

[Clement Clarke]

Joel Ewing wrote:
Unless IBM were to suddenly change philosophy and do something that 
would make environments that support Systems Programming on z/OS 
available to casual individual users at a price that doesn't impact a 
middle class budget, my expertise will soon be only historical.


IBM won't do anything unless they can see a dollar in it.  It is a bit 
like we humans not helping the environment and destroying it, even 
though we know we need it to provide oxygen so we can continue to live.  
Z/OS has a huge number of people who recognize it is a superb 
environment, however there is no way we can contribute.  It will die, 
and it will be IBM's fault.


There is always Hercules, and MVS of course.  Which is the only way I 
can continue to develop Jol - which solves most of the problems with JCL 
that I have seen people talk about for 40 years.  And the LONGPARM 
program and replace Symbolic Parameter in Card File utility I released 
in the CBT tapes recently.


Hopefully, IBM will wake up and support the Z/OS environment, before it 
is too late.


Clem Clarke
Author Jol - the JCL Replacement free format language

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Sam Siegel]

> But typing COBOL code in ISPF is literally slower for me than typing Java 
> code in Netbeans. Due in part to Netbean's intelligent auto-completion. When 
> I start typing a variable name, about 80%+ of the time, Netbeans has a "in 
> line" suggestion which I can select with a simple press of the ENTER key. 
> ISPF has no smarts at all like this. RDz may, I don't know. Part of this is 
> due to the more intelligent integration of the Java compiler with Netbeans. 
> I've never had anything even vaguely similar to this on the mainframe. With 
> Netbeans, I instantly know when I've misspelled something. With ISPF, I don't 
> generally know until I do a compile. Which takes a while around here to due 
> to the CPU constraints. Of course, what is needed is a good COBOL IDE on 
> Windows for our programmers. One which knows COBOL syntax and can at least 
> catch some variable name misspellings instantly. This would be far too costly 
> to implement on the mainframe, even if possible.
>


The development and debugging facilities avaible on Windows, Java and
Unix in general are so far superior to those facilities on z/OS it is
similar to comparing a private automobiles from the Model A era (1927
- 1931) to high end private automobiles (Bentley continental GT or
S-series Mercedes).

Basically there is no comparison.

> --
> John McKown
> Systems Engineer IV
> IT
>
> Administrative Services Group
>
> HealthMarkets(r)
>
> 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
> (817) 255-3225 phone *
> john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
> proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
> message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and 
> issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake 
> Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of 
> TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
>
>
>
> --
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> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[McKown, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Clifford McNeill
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 2:26 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher
> 
> ==> 'we will need to increase our MSU cap. Which will have 
> __every__ major vendor lining up with hands out for upgrade 
> fees and increased license fees because our increase in MSU 
> usage is obviously to run their code more.' 
> Isn't this the root of the problem with mainframes? Just too 
> darn expensive.
>  
> ==> 'but Windows and Linux development is much faster due to 
> superior IDEs. '
> Or is it less testing?  
>  
> Cliff McNeill

It is true that our change control on z/OS is much tighter than on Windows. And 
we seem to go through more testing at the unit test stage. 

But typing COBOL code in ISPF is literally slower for me than typing Java code 
in Netbeans. Due in part to Netbean's intelligent auto-completion. When I start 
typing a variable name, about 80%+ of the time, Netbeans has a "in line" 
suggestion which I can select with a simple press of the ENTER key. ISPF has no 
smarts at all like this. RDz may, I don't know. Part of this is due to the more 
intelligent integration of the Java compiler with Netbeans. I've never had 
anything even vaguely similar to this on the mainframe. With Netbeans, I 
instantly know when I've misspelled something. With ISPF, I don't generally 
know until I do a compile. Which takes a while around here to due to the CPU 
constraints. Of course, what is needed is a good COBOL IDE on Windows for our 
programmers. One which knows COBOL syntax and can at least catch some variable 
name misspellings instantly. This would be far too costly to implement on the 
mainframe, even if possible.

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The 
MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

 

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Clifford McNeill]

==> 'we will need to increase our MSU cap. Which will have __every__ major 
vendor lining up with hands out for upgrade fees and increased license fees 
because our increase in MSU usage is obviously to run their code more.' 
Isn't this the root of the problem with mainframes? Just too darn expensive.
 
==> 'but Windows and Linux development is much faster due to superior IDEs. '
Or is it less testing?  
 
Cliff McNeill
 
> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 13:47:11 -0500
> From: john.mck...@healthmarkets.com
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> 
> I have a z/OS web site. It is fairly simple. Because nobody really cares. 
> "Web on z/OS? We do that on Windows! Does it support running .NET? No? What a 
> piece of junk!" My web site main page has a set of links to a Windows Web 
> server which display mainframe statistics. Why Windows? Because the BMC 
> product which creates the graphs is Windows based. It has another link to a 
> z/OS page which does 3.4 type information for some Solaris people so that 
> they can do a fast check to see if a mainframe dataset is available (saves 
> doing a TSO logon). The main use is to a RACF site on our z which allows our 
> Help Desk people maintain RACF users (add/delete/revoke/resume/change 
> password/display information). I wrote that RACF application myself, in REXX 
> and HTML. Mainly because we can't afford a vendor product (according to 
> management who really would like the z to simply disappear).
> 
> Why not do new style development on the z/OS system? It costs too much. How? 
> We use subcapacity for billing. We hit 100% of our MSU cap quite often (using 
> Group Capacity on our z9BC). If we add more in-house written applications, we 
> will need to increase our MSU cap. Which will have __every__ major vendor 
> lining up with hands out for upgrade fees and increased license fees because 
> our increase in MSU usage is obviously to run their code more. Yeah, I'm 
> P.O.'ed at vendors (though not all - we do have some who charge us "one price 
> for unlimited usage" and it's very reasonable). 
> 
> Also, I hate to say it (and perhaps it's only us), but Windows and Linux 
> development is much faster due to superior IDEs. We use ISPF for development 
> of COBOL programs. Writing Java code using Netbeans on Linux is much faster 
> than COBOL using ISPF and batch compiles with CA-ENDEVOR. It is also easier 
> to do testing than with Xpeditor CICS or TSO. This is just speaking for what 
> __I__ do. I don't know what product the distributed (mainly Windows) 
> programmers actually use. I do know that they are mainly into .NET .
> 
> --
> John McKown 
> Systems Engineer IV
> IT
> 
> Administrative Services Group
> 
> HealthMarkets®
> 
> 9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010
> (817) 255-3225 phone . 
> john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com
> 
> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
> proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
> message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and 
> issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake 
> Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of 
> TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> > [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
> > Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 1:11 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> > Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher
> > 
> > On 4/4/2011 9:52 AM, john gilmore wrote:
> > > Steve Comstock writes:
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > He looks like a bright young man, the kind we want to sustain our
> > > favorite platform - but he can't find a job. And we on this list
> > > know he is not alone.
> > >
> > > This is the kind of reality we face if we don't, collectively and
> > > individually, take positive actions.
> > >
> > > Promote z/OS, get current ourselves, tell the stories of cool things
> > > you can do in z/OS.
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > has prompted me to reflect that, while it is certainly true that
> > > there are cool things that can be done with z/OS, I have not seen
> > > a cool new z/OS application in many, many years.
> > >
> > > IBM code, ISV code, or the like for z/OS that is cool? Yes, sure.
> > > But a cool new application? No, emphatically no.
> > >
> > > To describe the applications I see routinely as pedestrian would be
> > > to overstate their merits. The platform is very largely in 
> > the hands
> > > of fatuous, mediocre, risk-aversive crackpot realists who avoid new
> > > technology reflexively: Les courtisans qui l'entourant n'ont rien
> > > oublié et n'ont rien appris.
> > >
> > > New blood and new ideas are certainly needed, but how to infuse
> > > them into this tired environment is not at all clear to me.
> > >
> > > Steve's post h

Re: Mainframe Fresher

[McKown, John]

I have a z/OS web site. It is fairly simple. Because nobody really cares. "Web 
on z/OS? We do that on Windows! Does it support running .NET? No? What a piece 
of junk!" My web site main page has a set of links to a Windows Web server 
which display mainframe statistics. Why Windows? Because the BMC product which 
creates the graphs is Windows based. It has another link to a z/OS page which 
does 3.4 type information for some Solaris people so that they can do a fast 
check to see if a mainframe dataset is available (saves doing a TSO logon). The 
main use is to a RACF site on our z which allows our Help Desk people maintain 
RACF users (add/delete/revoke/resume/change password/display information). I 
wrote that RACF application myself, in REXX and HTML. Mainly because we can't 
afford a vendor product (according to management who really would like the z to 
simply disappear).

Why not do new style development on the z/OS system? It costs too much. How? We 
use subcapacity for billing. We hit 100% of our MSU cap quite often (using 
Group Capacity on our z9BC). If we add more in-house written applications, we 
will need to increase our MSU cap. Which will have __every__ major vendor 
lining up with hands out for upgrade fees and increased license fees because 
our increase in MSU usage is obviously to run their code more. Yeah, I'm 
P.O.'ed at vendors (though not all - we do have some who charge us "one price 
for unlimited usage" and it's very reasonable). 

Also, I hate to say it (and perhaps it's only us), but Windows and Linux 
development is much faster due to superior IDEs. We use ISPF for development of 
COBOL programs. Writing Java code using Netbeans on Linux is much faster than 
COBOL using ISPF and batch compiles with CA-ENDEVOR. It is also easier to do 
testing than with Xpeditor CICS or TSO. This is just speaking for what __I__ 
do. I don't know what product the distributed (mainly Windows) programmers 
actually use. I do know that they are mainly into .NET .

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone . 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA 
Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

 

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 1:11 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher
> 
> On 4/4/2011 9:52 AM, john gilmore wrote:
> > Steve Comstock writes:
> >
> > 
> >
> > He looks like a bright young man, the kind we want to sustain our
> > favorite platform - but he can't find a job. And we on this list
> > know he is not alone.
> >
> > This is the kind of reality we face if we don't, collectively and
> > individually, take positive actions.
> >
> > Promote z/OS, get current ourselves, tell the stories of cool things
> > you can do in z/OS.
> >
> > 
> >
> > has prompted me to reflect that, while it is certainly true that
> > there are cool things that can be done with z/OS, I have not seen
> > a cool new z/OS application in many, many years.
> >
> > IBM code, ISV code, or the like for z/OS that is cool?  Yes, sure.
> > But a cool new application?  No, emphatically no.
> >
> > To describe the applications I see routinely as pedestrian would be
> > to overstate their merits.  The platform is very largely in 
> the hands
> > of fatuous, mediocre, risk-aversive crackpot realists who avoid new
> > technology reflexively: Les courtisans qui l'entourant n'ont rien
> > oublié et n'ont rien appris.
> >
> > New blood and new ideas are certainly needed, but how to infuse
> > them into this tired environment is not at all clear to me.
> >
> > Steve's post has the great merit that it does not look at our
> > current situation through rose-colored glasses.
> >
> > John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA
> 
> 
> But one of my points was: if you don't see it, _you_ should create it!
> 
> 
> Perhaps some sort of surreptitious "skunk works" operation to develop
> a demonstrable "cool application". You could lead the project in your
> copious spare time, assisted by your merry band of cohorts. (Or is it
> "band of merry cohorts"? I'm never quite sure.)
> 
> 
> About two years ago I offered to prepare a small set of 
> webpages tailored
> to each requestor. I got three requests, so I built small 
> sample websites,
> including their corporate logo, and shipped them out. As far 
> as I know,
> no one ever g

Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Steve Comstock]

On 4/4/2011 11:32 AM, Graham Hobbs wrote:

Well, IBM could help.

Steve talks about 'young' people. I'm the old kind, retired. Obviously inventing
anything for z/OS needs z/OS access.

I keep seeing mainframe 'retirees' on this list, some maybe having ideas+energy
for new stuff, big or small. They ALL just seem to swan off into the sunset,
likely never touching a mainframe again .. all those skills gone, done, fin
d'histoire.

And who of us are going to spend $350/month for '24 units of time' (whatever
that represents?) on a VIC z/OS mainframe just to invent z/OS software - a big
fat gigantic zero?

What IBM needs to do for retired folk: make a Seniors' Partnerworld, let us make
a case for a project, subject it to approval, grant free access. Is not much to
ask, we give freely of our time and ideas, may even be successful .. IBM reaps
z/OS software.


An _excellent_ suggestion! Maybe someone in Partnerworld is listening.




But, no, we just buy bigger PC's and off into that 'other world'.

Graham Hobbs

- Original Message - From: "john gilmore" 
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher


Steve Comstock writes:



He looks like a bright young man, the kind we want to sustain our favorite
platform - but he can't find a job. And we on this list know he is not alone.

This is the kind of reality we face if we don't, collectively and individually,
take positive actions.

Promote z/OS, get current ourselves, tell the stories of cool things you can do
in z/OS.



has prompted me to reflect that, while it is certainly true that there are cool
things that can be done with z/OS, I have not seen a cool new z/OS application
in many, many years.

IBM code, ISV code, or the like for z/OS that is cool? Yes, sure. But a cool new
application? No, emphatically no.

To describe the applications I see routinely as pedestrian would be to overstate
their merits. The platform is very largely in the hands of fatuous, mediocre,
risk-aversive crackpot realists who avoid new technology reflexively: Les
courtisans qui l'entourant n'ont rien oublié et n'ont rien appris.

New blood and new ideas are certainly needed, but how to infuse them into this
tired environment is not at all clear to me.

Steve's post has the great merit that it does not look at our current situation
through rose-colored glasses.

John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA





--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
  + Training your people is an excellent investment

* Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment
for training dollars at
  http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Steve Comstock]

On 4/4/2011 9:52 AM, john gilmore wrote:

Steve Comstock writes:



He looks like a bright young man, the kind we want to sustain our
favorite platform - but he can't find a job. And we on this list
know he is not alone.

This is the kind of reality we face if we don't, collectively and
individually, take positive actions.

Promote z/OS, get current ourselves, tell the stories of cool things
you can do in z/OS.



has prompted me to reflect that, while it is certainly true that
there are cool things that can be done with z/OS, I have not seen
a cool new z/OS application in many, many years.

IBM code, ISV code, or the like for z/OS that is cool?  Yes, sure.
But a cool new application?  No, emphatically no.

To describe the applications I see routinely as pedestrian would be
to overstate their merits.  The platform is very largely in the hands
of fatuous, mediocre, risk-aversive crackpot realists who avoid new
technology reflexively: Les courtisans qui l'entourant n'ont rien
oublié et n'ont rien appris.

New blood and new ideas are certainly needed, but how to infuse
them into this tired environment is not at all clear to me.

Steve's post has the great merit that it does not look at our
current situation through rose-colored glasses.

John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA



But one of my points was: if you don't see it, _you_ should create it!


Perhaps some sort of surreptitious "skunk works" operation to develop
a demonstrable "cool application". You could lead the project in your
copious spare time, assisted by your merry band of cohorts. (Or is it
"band of merry cohorts"? I'm never quite sure.)


About two years ago I offered to prepare a small set of webpages tailored
to each requestor. I got three requests, so I built small sample websites,
including their corporate logo, and shipped them out. As far as I know,
no one ever got around to installing them. Each sample included 10 html
files as well as a number of supporting files.


I personally think hosting a website on z/OS (without WebSphere or
other charge for products) is pretty cool. It's not too hard to do, so
I tried to make it even easier. On to the next idea.


My current project is to create a page for our website that lists a
number of cool things to do in z/OS with links to our courses where
you can learn how to do those cool things. I hope to have it up in a
day or two.



--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
  + Training your people is an excellent investment

* Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment
for training dollars at
  http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html

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Re: Quoting Text (Was DATACLASS)

[Jonathan Goossen]

If your going to list of languages, besides American, I read/write COBOL, 
Pascal, Fortran, C, C++, Forth, SAS, REXX, CList, Basic, 6502 assembler, 
PDP1103 assembler, Univac 1100 assembler, and probably a few more that I 
have forgotten about..

As you can see, I only know one human language. And after 49 years, I 
don't expect that to change. Computer languagers are much more fun.

Thank you and have a Terrific day!

Jonathan Goossen, ACS, CL
Tape Specialist
ACT Mainframe Storage Group
651-361-4541

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 04/04/2011 
12:22:05 PM:

> From: Ron Hawkins 
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Date: 04/04/2011 12:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Quoting Text (Was DATACLASS)
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> 
> I'm not sure if I can help with your French. My mother tongue is 
Australian
> but I also speak English, Canadian, New Zealandish, Singlish, and a bit 
of
> Cebuano. I thought I spoke American, but no one here understands me.
> 

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[Graham Hobbs]

Well, IBM could help.

Steve talks about 'young' people. I'm the old kind, retired. Obviously 
inventing anything for z/OS needs z/OS access.


I keep seeing mainframe 'retirees' on this list, some maybe having 
ideas+energy for new stuff, big or small. They ALL just seem to swan off 
into the sunset, likely never touching a mainframe again .. all those skills 
gone, done, fin d'histoire.


And who of us are going to spend $350/month for '24 units of time' (whatever 
that represents?) on a VIC z/OS mainframe just to invent z/OS software - a 
big fat gigantic zero?


What IBM needs to do for retired folk: make a Seniors' Partnerworld, let us 
make a case for a project, subject it to approval, grant free access. Is not 
much to ask, we give freely of our time and ideas, may even be successful .. 
IBM reaps z/OS software.


But, no, we just buy bigger PC's and off into that 'other world'.

Graham Hobbs

- Original Message - 
From: "john gilmore" 

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: Mainframe Fresher


Steve Comstock writes:



He looks like a bright young man, the kind we want to sustain our favorite 
platform - but he can't find a job. And we on this list know he is not 
alone.


This is the kind of reality we face if we don't, collectively and 
individually, take positive actions.


Promote z/OS, get current ourselves, tell the stories of cool things you can 
do in z/OS.




has prompted me to reflect that, while it is certainly true that there are 
cool things that can be done with z/OS, I have not seen a cool new z/OS 
application in many, many years.


IBM code, ISV code, or the like for z/OS that is cool?  Yes, sure.  But a 
cool new application?  No, emphatically no.


To describe the applications I see routinely as pedestrian would be to 
overstate their merits.  The platform is very largely in the hands of 
fatuous, mediocre, risk-aversive crackpot realists who avoid new technology 
reflexively: Les courtisans qui l'entourant n'ont rien oublié et n'ont rien 
appris.


New blood and new ideas are certainly needed, but how to infuse them into 
this tired environment is not at all clear to me.


Steve's post has the great merit that it does not look at our current 
situation through rose-colored glasses.


John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA


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Re: Quoting Text (Was DATACLASS)

[Ron Hawkins]

I'm not sure if I can help with your French. My mother tongue is Australian
but I also speak English, Canadian, New Zealandish, Singlish, and a bit of
Cebuano. I thought I spoke American, but no one here understands me.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of
> Eric Bielefeld
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 1:26 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Quoting Text (Was DATACLASS)
> 
> Ron,
> 
> Since I only know English, I didn't know that 033x is  valid in other
> languages.  Actually, I took French in High School, but I couldn't speak
> much French then, and much less now.
> 
> I got one off list reply saying that 033x was the way to represent the
> number in Octal.
> 
> When I made my original post on this subject, I actually thought that the
> number was in hex because of the reply that I quoted.  When I saw the post
> that I quoted, I wasn't sure, although I gathered it was hex.  Although
from
> my previous paragraph here, maybe it's Octal.  Is there a consensus on
this?
> 
> Eric Bielefeld
> Sr. Systems Programmer
> IBM Global Services Division
> Dubuque, Iowa
> 414-477-7259
> 
> 

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Re: DATACLASS

[Scott Rowe]

Heck, I only just turned 50 ;-)

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Ron Hawkins
wrote:

> No problem. Based on the replies I feel like a spring chicken...
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of
> > Scott Ford
> > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 4:36 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] DATACLASS
> >
> > You guys have me feeling like a grandpa of IT...man
> >
> > Scott J Ford
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: "Chase, John" 
> > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> > Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 12:06:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: DATACLASS
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Ron Hawkins
> > > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 5:36 PM
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> > > Subject: Re: DATACLASS
> > >
> > > I am 033x tomorrow!
> >
> > HBTY, Cherub!  :-)
> >
> > -jc-  (044x)
> >
> > --
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> > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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>

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Re: DATACLASS

[Ron Hawkins]

No problem. Based on the replies I feel like a spring chicken...

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of
> Scott Ford
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 4:36 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] DATACLASS
> 
> You guys have me feeling like a grandpa of IT...man
> 
> Scott J Ford
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Chase, John" 
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 12:06:14 PM
> Subject: Re: DATACLASS
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Ron Hawkins
> > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 5:36 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> > Subject: Re: DATACLASS
> >
> > I am 033x tomorrow!
> 
> HBTY, Cherub!  :-)
> 
>     -jc-  (044x)
> 
> --
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Any z196 running with HDS USP/USPV and/or STK VSM4/VSM5?

[Ron Hawkins]

Hsu,

While I have not checked all the require microcode and driver levels, at HDS
in Santa Clara we have a few USP connect to a z196 for various feature and
function tests. I have not heard of any problems with these units being
connect to the z196. All z/OS LPARs are at z/OS.12, but I don't know the
z/VM and LINUX on z levels of the top of my head.

Please realize that this is a lab environment, and my positive feedback does
not imply or confirm that your USP is supported. Before moving forward you
should check with your HDS support that the microcode and program products
you have installed on your USP, and your FICON switches, meet all the
co-requisite requirements of the z196 you will install.

Ron

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of
> HsuBright
> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:00 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: [IBM-MAIN] Any z196 running with HDS USP/USPV and/or STK
VSM4/VSM5?
> 
> The shop has USP and VSM4/VSM5, and is going to install z196 very soon,
just
> want to make sure someone has gone through this.
> 
> thanks!
> 
> 
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Re: DB2 Tables In a database

[Abe F. Kornelis]

Michael,

Assuming we're talking DB2, this would be:

SELECT CREATOR, NAME
FROM SYSIBM.SYSTABLES;

You might want to add a WHERE clasue,
and probably an ORDER BY.

Please be aware that directory tables are
not present in SYSIBM.SYSTABLES,
though their tablespaces may occur in 
SYSIBM.SYSCOPY.


Success,
Abe Kornelis.
=





- Original Message - 
From: "Micheal Butz" 

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 4:29 PM
Subject: DB2 Tables In a database



Hi,

Would anyone know the SQL statement to list all the tables in a database


Thanks

Sent from my iPhone

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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3549 - Release Date: 04/04/11



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Migration from ISS LDAP server to Tivoli Directiory Server

[John Zarzeck]

Hi List,
We're just about to do this, and don't have much time. Has anyone got any
migration tips so we can avoid gotchas?  Currently we are on z/os 1.10, and
are migrating to 1.12. 

Thanks,
John Zarzeck



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Re: Determining if address space is swapped out

[Charles Mills]

Awesome!

Thanks much!

CM

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Rob Scott
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 8:41 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Determining if address space is swapped out

I use something along the lines of :

MVC   ASID_POS,=CL3'IN' Assume IN   
IF (TM,OUCBQFL,OUCBGOO+OUCBGOI+OUCBGOB,NZ)
  MVC   ASID_POS,=CL3'<->'  indicate transition  
ELSEIF (TM,OUCBQFL,OUCBOUT+OUCBLSW,NZ)
  MVC   ASID_POS,=CL3'OUT'  indicate OUT  
ELSEIF (TM,OUCBSFL,OUCBNSW,O) 
  MVC   ASID_POS,=CL3'N/S'  indicate non-swap 
ENDIF 

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Re: Mainframe Fresher

[john gilmore]

Steve Comstock writes:
 


He looks like a bright young man, the kind we want to sustain our favorite 
platform - but he can't find a job. And we on this list know he is not alone.
  
This is the kind of reality we face if we don't, collectively and individually, 
take positive actions.
 
Promote z/OS, get current ourselves, tell the stories of cool things you can do 
in z/OS.
 

 
has prompted me to reflect that, while it is certainly true that there are cool 
things that can be done with z/OS, I have not seen a cool new z/OS application 
in many, many years.  
 
IBM code, ISV code, or the like for z/OS that is cool?  Yes, sure.  But a cool 
new application?  No, emphatically no.   
 
To describe the applications I see routinely as pedestrian would be to 
overstate their merits.  The platform is very largely in the hands of fatuous, 
mediocre, risk-aversive crackpot realists who avoid new technology reflexively: 
Les courtisans qui l'entourant n'ont rien oublié et n'ont rien appris.
 
New blood and new ideas are certainly needed, but how to infuse them into this 
tired environment is not at all clear to me.  
 
Steve's post has the great merit that it does not look at our current situation 
through rose-colored glasses.
  
John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA

  
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Re: Mainframe passwords synced to active directory.

[Tony Harminc]

On 4 April 2011 10:23, Bill Johnson  wrote:
> We are trying to sync up (and expand) our mainframe passwords to match what 
> the
> user has in active directory. So far so good. The problem is when the AD
> password is longer than 8 characters. Anyone shed some light as to how this 
> can
> be handled?

The simple answer is z/OS password phrases. The big issue is that only
a subset of applications on z/OS support them, and if your users want
to log on to one that doesn't, you have to provide them with some
other way of providing credentials. The list of those that do gets
bigger all the time, so password phrases are becoming increasingly
usable. But we're not there yet...

It's not clear if you are looking for a process to follow, or a
product that will keep things in sync on an ongoing basis. There is no
shortage of ISV products that will sync traditional passwords across
platforms, but password phrase support is less common. One made by my
company (SAM Password by Beta Systems Software) offers targeting
options for passwords based on length, so you can have, say, a
7-character AD password turn into a RACF password, and a 13-character
one turn into a RACF password phrase. And there are options to
truncate, force case, and generate a random password (because RACF
requires a password even for password phrase users) that can be
combined in various ways. There is also the question of DCE "keys"
(i.e. passwords) in RACF, and Kerberos interoperability, but that's
probably too big a topic to open here.

There is no simple answer to all of this; IBM doubtless had its
reasons for implementing password phrases as an addition to
traditional passwords the way they did, but it's clear that what
customers really wanted was long passwords. That is not implemented,
but much of the effect can be had with a suitable sync product.

Tony Harminc
www.betasystems.com

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Re: Determining if address space is swapped out

[Rob Scott]

I use something along the lines of :

MVC   ASID_POS,=CL3'IN' Assume IN   
IF (TM,OUCBQFL,OUCBGOO+OUCBGOI+OUCBGOB,NZ)
  MVC   ASID_POS,=CL3'<->'  indicate transition  
ELSEIF (TM,OUCBQFL,OUCBOUT+OUCBLSW,NZ)
  MVC   ASID_POS,=CL3'OUT'  indicate OUT  
ELSEIF (TM,OUCBSFL,OUCBNSW,O) 
  MVC   ASID_POS,=CL3'N/S'  indicate non-swap 
ENDIF 

Rob Scott
Lead Developer
Rocket Software
275 Grove Street * Newton, MA 02466-2272 * USA
Tel: +1.617.614.2305
Email: rsc...@rs.com
Web: www.rocketsoftware.com 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: 04 April 2011 16:31
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Determining if address space is swapped out

Thanks. So OUCBGOO in OUCBSFL is the best indicator for is or is being
swapped out? Or OUCBLSW?

(I do like OUCBGOI, documented as "transitioning into core." I thought we
had pretty much transitioned out of core about forty years ago.)

CM

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Rob Scott
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 8:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Determining if address space is swapped out

I would use OUCBSFL and OUCBQFL (see IRAOUCB in MODGEN) 

Rob Scott
Lead Developer
Rocket Software
275 Grove Street * Newton, MA 02466-2272 * USA
Tel: +1.617.614.2305
Email: rsc...@rs.com
Web: www.rocketsoftware.com 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Charles Mills
Sent: 04 April 2011 15:52
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Determining if address space is swapped out

I have an application that consists of two parts, system exit code and a
started task. I would like to count the number of times the exit code was
driven and determined that the started task was swapped out. What is the
best indicator of "address space is at this moment swapped out"? (Yes, I do
know that any such determination is valid for an instant and could change in
the next instant. I'm not going to make any code logic decisions based on
this determination, just count them for subsequent human analysis.)

What's the best or most definitive indicator?

ASCBOUT in ASCBRCTF?
ASCBLSAS in ASCBFLG1?
!ASCBNOQ in ASCBDSP1?
Or something else?

Yes, I know that none of the above are GUPI. I understand the risks of
taking my chances.

Thanks,
Charles

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Re: Determining if address space is swapped out

[Charles Mills]

Thanks. So OUCBGOO in OUCBSFL is the best indicator for is or is being
swapped out? Or OUCBLSW?

(I do like OUCBGOI, documented as "transitioning into core." I thought we
had pretty much transitioned out of core about forty years ago.)

CM

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Rob Scott
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 8:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Determining if address space is swapped out

I would use OUCBSFL and OUCBQFL (see IRAOUCB in MODGEN) 

Rob Scott
Lead Developer
Rocket Software
275 Grove Street * Newton, MA 02466-2272 * USA
Tel: +1.617.614.2305
Email: rsc...@rs.com
Web: www.rocketsoftware.com 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Charles Mills
Sent: 04 April 2011 15:52
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Determining if address space is swapped out

I have an application that consists of two parts, system exit code and a
started task. I would like to count the number of times the exit code was
driven and determined that the started task was swapped out. What is the
best indicator of "address space is at this moment swapped out"? (Yes, I do
know that any such determination is valid for an instant and could change in
the next instant. I'm not going to make any code logic decisions based on
this determination, just count them for subsequent human analysis.)

What's the best or most definitive indicator?

ASCBOUT in ASCBRCTF?
ASCBLSAS in ASCBFLG1?
!ASCBNOQ in ASCBDSP1?
Or something else?

Yes, I know that none of the above are GUPI. I understand the risks of
taking my chances.

Thanks,
Charles

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Re: Floating point assembler code

[Sam Siegel]

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 8:09 AM, O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]
 wrote:
> A colleague asked that the following query be posted:
>
> Are there any tutorials/samples for writing floating point assembler code. We 
> need to work with the z/VM Performance data and it is stored in short 
> floating point. Been playing in the Principles of Operation but have a bit of 
> a time wrapping my head around floating point manipulation.

You may want to try looking at compiler listings for unoptimized (or
optimized) COBOL code using COMP-1 (short float) or COMP-2 (long
float).

By using the various compiler options (to choose between the various
types of floating point numbers) and doing arithmetic and/or moving
floating point number to Binary and/or Packed number you will be able
to generate a quick tutorial for yourself.

The same can be done with the C/C++ compiler other other compilers on
your system.

Sam


>
> Thank You,
> Dave O'Brien
> NIH Contractor
>
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Re: FTP question

[Steve Horein]

Would any solution account for such a case?

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Re: Floating point assembler code

[Steve Comstock]

On 4/4/2011 9:09 AM, O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C] wrote:

A colleague asked that the following query be posted:

Are there any tutorials/samples for writing floating point assembler code. We 
need to work with the z/VM Performance data and it is stored in short floating 
point. Been playing in the Principles of Operation but have a bit of a time 
wrapping my head around floating point manipulation.

Thank You,
Dave O'Brien
NIH Contractor


You might have better luck posting this on the IBM
Assembler list:

  IBM Mainframe Assembler List 

Although I'm sure there are experienced people here, too.


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The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
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Re: Mainframe passwords synced to active directory.

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

mellonb...@yahoo.com (Bill Johnson) writes:
> We are trying to sync up (and expand) our mainframe passwords to match
> what the user has in active directory. So far so good. The problem is
> when the AD password is longer than 8 characters. Anyone shed some
> light as to how this can be handled?

active directory trivia ... based on kerberos
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb742516.aspx

original implementation for active directory was done under contract by
one of the companies providing commercial kerberos products.

over the years ... active directory drifted from kerberos base ...  some
discussion on interoperability
http://www.centrify.com/blogs/tomkemp/integrating_mit_kerberos_with_active_directory.asp

kerberos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerberos_%28protocol%29

part pf MIT's project athena
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Athena

with joint funding by DEC and IBM to the tune of $25M each. started in
the early day's of IBM's ACIS and getting much more active with
universities.  we use to drop by Project Athena periodically as part of
corporate review of what was going on (was there for early discussions
on how multiple relm interoperability would work).

article about kerberos on mainframe (seamless interoperability with
RACF)
http://www.mainframezone.com/it-management/kerberos-on-z-os-teaching-an-old-dog-new-tricks/P2

much later at presentation for a SAML product multi-relm deployment
(coalition forces) ... and happened to observe/mention that SAML
messages & message flows look nearly the same as Kerberos (with the
format of the message contents being XML)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAML_2.0

the speaker was somewhat defensive saying that there are only a limited
number of ways to do multi-relm implementation.

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Floating point assembler code

[O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]]

A colleague asked that the following query be posted:

Are there any tutorials/samples for writing floating point assembler code. We 
need to work with the z/VM Performance data and it is stored in short floating 
point. Been playing in the Principles of Operation but have a bit of a time 
wrapping my head around floating point manipulation. 

Thank You,
Dave O'Brien
NIH Contractor

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Re: Determining if address space is swapped out

[Rob Scott]

I would use OUCBSFL and OUCBQFL (see IRAOUCB in MODGEN) 

Rob Scott
Lead Developer
Rocket Software
275 Grove Street * Newton, MA 02466-2272 * USA
Tel: +1.617.614.2305
Email: rsc...@rs.com
Web: www.rocketsoftware.com 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: 04 April 2011 15:52
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Determining if address space is swapped out

I have an application that consists of two parts, system exit code and a
started task. I would like to count the number of times the exit code was
driven and determined that the started task was swapped out. What is the
best indicator of "address space is at this moment swapped out"? (Yes, I do
know that any such determination is valid for an instant and could change in
the next instant. I'm not going to make any code logic decisions based on
this determination, just count them for subsequent human analysis.)

What's the best or most definitive indicator?

ASCBOUT in ASCBRCTF?
ASCBLSAS in ASCBFLG1?
!ASCBNOQ in ASCBDSP1?
Or something else?

Yes, I know that none of the above are GUPI. I understand the risks of
taking my chances.

Thanks,
Charles

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Determining if address space is swapped out

[Charles Mills]

I have an application that consists of two parts, system exit code and a
started task. I would like to count the number of times the exit code was
driven and determined that the started task was swapped out. What is the
best indicator of "address space is at this moment swapped out"? (Yes, I do
know that any such determination is valid for an instant and could change in
the next instant. I'm not going to make any code logic decisions based on
this determination, just count them for subsequent human analysis.)

What's the best or most definitive indicator?

ASCBOUT in ASCBRCTF?
ASCBLSAS in ASCBFLG1?
!ASCBNOQ in ASCBDSP1?
Or something else?

Yes, I know that none of the above are GUPI. I understand the risks of
taking my chances.

Thanks,
Charles

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Re: DB2 Tables In a database

[Lizette Koehler]

That is in the DB2 Commands book under DISPLAY for an easier way.  


Or a simple SQL   SELECT * FROM SYSIBM.SYSTABLES WHERE DBNAME 
???

There are many examples on the internet for this function.

But perhaps you have a more specific requirement.  If so, let us know so we can 
help.


Lizette


-Original Message-
>From: Micheal Butz 
>Sent: Apr 4, 2011 10:29 AM
>To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
>Subject: DB2 Tables In a database
>
>Hi,
>
>Would anyone know the SQL statement to list all the tables in a database
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: mainframe fresher

[Steve Comstock]

On 4/4/2011 7:20 AM, Przemyslaw Kupisz wrote:

Hello,

It's unbelievably difficult to find a mainframe job with my current
professional experience so I decided to write this mail as my last try
to remain in the mainframe world.

If you are looking a guy with my skills and knowledge please write me a
message.

For more details please follow the link in my signature.

Thanks for your time.



Follow the link he supplies. He looks like a bright young
man, the kind we want to sustain our favorite platform
- but he can't find a job. And we on this list know he is
not alone.


This is the kind of reality we face if we don't,
collectively and individually, take positive actions.


Promote z/OS, get current ourselves, tell the stories of cool
things you can do in z/OS. If we (and especially IBM and
the re-marketeers like Mainline and all the ISVs) don't win
the hearts and minds of young management, and even people
outside of the business ("Are they still making mainframes?"),
then how can you tell your children to look for a career in
mainframes?


There are things every one of us can do, but we tend to let
it slide, let it get done by others: it's not my job. But
it is your job, literally, that's on the line.


How long will your career last? Some say it's already too
late. And maybe they are right. But I like to think there is
still some extended potential for z/OS. But we each have to
take on some responsibility for promoting awareness and
appreciation of z/OS, or the window will shut all the way.
Then we all lose.


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-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
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Re: DB2 Tables In a database

[McKown, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Micheal Butz
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 9:30 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: DB2 Tables In a database
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Would anyone know the SQL statement to list all the tables in 
> a database
> 
> 
> Thanks

I'm sure somebody does. That answers the question as asked. 

I'm not a DB2 person. We don't have DB2. But I am somewhat interested, so I've 
read.

http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/db2luw/v9/index.jsp

LIST TABLES FOR ALL

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

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Re: Mainframe passwords synced to active directory.

[McKown, John]

1. truncate the AD password to 8 characters on the mainframe
2. use passphrases instead of passwords.

Option 2 is not really viable because not all applications which use RACF to 
validate the userid are capable of using passphrases. So option 1 is the only 
thing that I can think of. Well option 0 would be to restrict Windows passwords 
to be compatable with RACF passwords, having a max of 8 characters. I don't 
know if you can set a maximum length for Windows passwords. But even if you 
can, I'd almost bet that some auditor will start their weeping and wailing and 
gnashing of teeth about how insecure this is. So I'd use option 3: eliminate 
Windows. 

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
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the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
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MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

 

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 9:24 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Mainframe passwords synced to active directory.
> 
> We are trying to sync up (and expand) our mainframe passwords 
> to match what the 
> user has in active directory. So far so good. The problem is 
> when the AD 
> password is longer than 8 characters. Anyone shed some light 
> as to how this can 
> be handled?
> 
> TIA
> 
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> 

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Re: Host integration server connection to mainframe

[Chris Mason]

Jags

> Is there anyone who has an idea on connection of Host integration server to 
mainframes.

Yes, there are quite a few!

I expect your real question is the following:

Would someone be so kind as to provide me with some advice 
concerning "connection of Host integration server to mainframes?"

However the "forum" you should use in order to make contact with them is the 
following:

Microsoft TechNet Forum: BizTalk Server Host Integration Server

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/biztalkhis/threads

Since I'm pretty sure that the only generically named "data link control" 
protocol supported by Host Integration Server (HIS) these days is, using the 
IBM name, Enterprise Extender (EE), using the Microsoft name, IP-DLC, and 
the identification used by RFC 2353, APPN/HPR in IP Networks, you will need 
to get hold of the following Microsoft "White Paper":

Configuring IP-DLC Link Service for IBM Enterprise Extender

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=86d6011a-
3396-4c36-b4b1-af7f4d80a099

Beware that the treatment of anything to do with z/OS Communications 
Server (CS) IP and SNA (VTAM) components is very, very weak and you 
should have a systems programmer well educated in VTAM APPN to hand in 
order to understand what the "White Paper" tries to say about VTAM and 
Enterprise Extender. It's also my opinion that the way the document describes 
the structure of the HIS components is rather weak but that "White Paper" is 
just about the only document that exists which describes what you want to 
do.[1]

Including the effects of the extremely poor understanding of VTAM and SNA 
exhibited in this "White Paper", should your eventual problems relate to the 
z/OS, one of the only "mainframe" operating systems supporting EE and 
probably the one in which you are most likely to be interested (with no 
particular need to know precisely which release[2], much less precisely which 
z model), the other being Communications Server for LINUX on System z, 
the "forum" you should use is the IBMTCP-L list:

For IBMTCP-L subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO IBMTCP-L

Incidentally, regarding John Zarzeck's "Configuration is fairly straightforward 
- 
if you understand APPN and IP configuration on the mainframe." includes one 
enormous *if*!!! It is and was fine for him because he - as I believe I've 
noted 
from other contributions from him in this list and probably the IBMTCP-L list - 
does understand APPN, that is VTAM, and related IP configuration in CS. If 
you and/or your colleagues do not, you should go and take the required 
education classes.

-

[1] I'm entitled to cast all these aspersions because long ago when I 
discovered just how awful this document is regarding VTAM aspects, I 
provided some updates and, over a period of about 3 years now, no attempt 
has been made to incorporate my corrections.

[2] Nevertheless, you are rather "back-level" at V1R6! The "latest and 
greatest" is V1R12 with some talk already to be noted - fingers crossed! - 
concerning V1R13.

-

Chris Mason

On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:44:09 +0530, jagadishan perumal 
 wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Is there anyone who has an idea on connection of Host integration server to
>mainframes.
>
>Regards,
>Jags

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DB2 Tables In a database

[Micheal Butz]

Hi,

Would anyone know the SQL statement to list all the tables in a database


Thanks

Sent from my iPhone

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Mainframe passwords synced to active directory.

[Bill Johnson]

We are trying to sync up (and expand) our mainframe passwords to match what the 
user has in active directory. So far so good. The problem is when the AD 
password is longer than 8 characters. Anyone shed some light as to how this can 
be handled?

TIA

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Re: Host integration server connection to mainframe (BIZTALK)

[Givens, Dennis W.]

When I connected Host Integration Server 2004 to my IBM mainframe via 
Enterprise Extender I found the following publications from Microsoft very 
helpful:

Configuring IP-DLC Link Service for IBM Enterprise Extender (White Paper 
published 9/2004)
Deploying Microsoft Host Integration Server 2004 in a TCP/IP Wide Area Network 
(Published 8/2004)

You may have some luck at site http://www.microsoft.com/hiserver



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
jagadishan perumal
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 9:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Host integration server connection to mainframe (BIZTALK)

Hi John,

This machine is just to get decommissioned soon and we are just trying to
implement in our sandbox environment. Do you have any documents which helps
in setting up this configuration by step by step.

Regards,
Jags

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 3:28 PM, John Zarzeck wrote:

> Hi Jags,
>
> Microsoft Host Integration Server provides SNA connectivity - it is the
> follow-on product to Microsoft SNA server. We have a few HIS machines using
> SNA to our mainframes - the obvious connectivity to use is Enterprise
> Extender, which is APPN/HPR over IP. Configuration is fairly
> straightforward
> - if you understand APPN and IP configuration on the mainframe.  On the
> mainframe, APPN - and an IP stack are required. You need to talk to whoever
> supports Communications Server on your mainframe. (I am assuming here that
> you have IP connectivity on your mainframe!).
>
> Out of curiosity, why are you running such a back-level version of z/OS?
>
> Cheers,
> John Zarzeck
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf
> Of Lizette Koehler
> Sent: 03 April 2011 13:57
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Host integration server connection to mainframe (BIZTALK)
>
> >
> > This is Biz-talk server 2007.
> > The Mainframe Machine is Z800.
> > Operating system version is 1.6.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jags
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Lizette Koehler
> wrote:
> >
> > >  >
> > > > Is there anyone who has an idea on connection of Host integration
> > > > server
> > > to
> > > > mainframes.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Jags
> > > >
> > >
> > > Is this a BizTalk server?  What version 2007 2010, etc...
> > > What mainframes?  z9  z10, what version of Operating system z/OS V1.??
> > >
> > > I guess this is a Microsoft Server?
> > >
> > >
>
> I am not aware of any native function in z/OS that will talk with Biztalk.
> However, you might be trying to use DB2?  TCPIP?  FTP?   SNA?
>
> You need to let us know what function your BIZTALK/MAINFRAME process will
> be.
>
> Have you GOOGLE'd  the BIZTALK MAINFRAME keywords?  I found this entry
> which
> may be close to what you are looking at doing?
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163294.aspx
>
> Lizette
>
>
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Re: Host integration server connection to mainframe (BIZTALK)

[Ward, Mike S]

I used the Enterprise Extender Implementation Guide (Redbook)
SG24-7359-00.

It was excellent.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of jagadishan perumal
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 9:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Host integration server connection to mainframe (BIZTALK)

Hi John,

This machine is just to get decommissioned soon and we are just trying
to
implement in our sandbox environment. Do you have any documents which
helps
in setting up this configuration by step by step.

Regards,
Jags

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 3:28 PM, John Zarzeck
wrote:

> Hi Jags,
>
> Microsoft Host Integration Server provides SNA connectivity - it is
the
> follow-on product to Microsoft SNA server. We have a few HIS machines
using
> SNA to our mainframes - the obvious connectivity to use is Enterprise
> Extender, which is APPN/HPR over IP. Configuration is fairly
> straightforward
> - if you understand APPN and IP configuration on the mainframe.  On
the
> mainframe, APPN - and an IP stack are required. You need to talk to
whoever
> supports Communications Server on your mainframe. (I am assuming here
that
> you have IP connectivity on your mainframe!).
>
> Out of curiosity, why are you running such a back-level version of
z/OS?
>
> Cheers,
> John Zarzeck
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf
> Of Lizette Koehler
> Sent: 03 April 2011 13:57
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Host integration server connection to mainframe (BIZTALK)
>
> >
> > This is Biz-talk server 2007.
> > The Mainframe Machine is Z800.
> > Operating system version is 1.6.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jags
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Lizette Koehler
> wrote:
> >
> > >  >
> > > > Is there anyone who has an idea on connection of Host
integration
> > > > server
> > > to
> > > > mainframes.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Jags
> > > >
> > >
> > > Is this a BizTalk server?  What version 2007 2010, etc...
> > > What mainframes?  z9  z10, what version of Operating system z/OS
V1.??
> > >
> > > I guess this is a Microsoft Server?
> > >
> > >
>
> I am not aware of any native function in z/OS that will talk with
Biztalk.
> However, you might be trying to use DB2?  TCPIP?  FTP?   SNA?
>
> You need to let us know what function your BIZTALK/MAINFRAME process
will
> be.
>
> Have you GOOGLE'd  the BIZTALK MAINFRAME keywords?  I found this entry
> which
> may be close to what you are looking at doing?
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163294.aspx
>
> Lizette
>
>
> --
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==
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
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notify the system manager. This message
contains confidential informati

Re: Host integration server connection to mainframe (BIZTALK)

[jagadishan perumal]

Hi John,

This machine is just to get decommissioned soon and we are just trying to
implement in our sandbox environment. Do you have any documents which helps
in setting up this configuration by step by step.

Regards,
Jags

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 3:28 PM, John Zarzeck wrote:

> Hi Jags,
>
> Microsoft Host Integration Server provides SNA connectivity - it is the
> follow-on product to Microsoft SNA server. We have a few HIS machines using
> SNA to our mainframes - the obvious connectivity to use is Enterprise
> Extender, which is APPN/HPR over IP. Configuration is fairly
> straightforward
> - if you understand APPN and IP configuration on the mainframe.  On the
> mainframe, APPN - and an IP stack are required. You need to talk to whoever
> supports Communications Server on your mainframe. (I am assuming here that
> you have IP connectivity on your mainframe!).
>
> Out of curiosity, why are you running such a back-level version of z/OS?
>
> Cheers,
> John Zarzeck
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf
> Of Lizette Koehler
> Sent: 03 April 2011 13:57
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Host integration server connection to mainframe (BIZTALK)
>
> >
> > This is Biz-talk server 2007.
> > The Mainframe Machine is Z800.
> > Operating system version is 1.6.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jags
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Lizette Koehler
> wrote:
> >
> > >  >
> > > > Is there anyone who has an idea on connection of Host integration
> > > > server
> > > to
> > > > mainframes.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Jags
> > > >
> > >
> > > Is this a BizTalk server?  What version 2007 2010, etc...
> > > What mainframes?  z9  z10, what version of Operating system z/OS V1.??
> > >
> > > I guess this is a Microsoft Server?
> > >
> > >
>
> I am not aware of any native function in z/OS that will talk with Biztalk.
> However, you might be trying to use DB2?  TCPIP?  FTP?   SNA?
>
> You need to let us know what function your BIZTALK/MAINFRAME process will
> be.
>
> Have you GOOGLE'd  the BIZTALK MAINFRAME keywords?  I found this entry
> which
> may be close to what you are looking at doing?
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163294.aspx
>
> Lizette
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>
> This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for
> the addressee and may also be privileged or exempt from disclosure under
> applicable law. If you are not the addressee, or have received this e-mail
> in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system
> and do not copy, disclose or otherwise act upon any part of this e-mail or
> its attachments.
>
> Internet communications are not guaranteed to be secure or virus-free.
> The Barclays Group does not accept responsibility for any loss arising from
> unauthorised access to, or interference with, any Internet communications by
> any third party, or from the transmission of any viruses. Replies to this
> e-mail may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business
> reasons.
>
> Any opinion or other information in this e-mail or its attachments that
> does not relate to the business of the Barclays Group is personal to the
> sender and is not given or endorsed by the Barclays Group.
>
> Barclays Bank PLC.Registered in England and Wales (registered no. 1026167).
> Registered Office: 1 Churchill Place, London, E14 5HP, United Kingdom.
>
> Barclays Bank PLC is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services
> Authority.
>
> --
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>

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mainframe fresher

[Przemyslaw Kupisz]

Hello,

It's unbelievably difficult to find a mainframe job with my current
professional experience so I decided to write this mail as my last try
to remain in the mainframe world.

If you are looking a guy with my skills and knowledge please write me a
message.

For more details please follow the link in my signature.

Thanks for your time.

-- 
Przemyslaw Kupisz
http://www.linkedin.com/in/pkupisz

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Re: Retired

[Shane Ginnane]

Much as I think Java is the spawn of the devil, I fully to intend to look at
Dons little baby now that I too have some free time.

As for tracking the drivel on the so called "social" networks - not bloody
likely.

Shane ...

On Mon, Apr 4th, 2011 at 10:17 PM, Don Higgins wrote:

> Now I still have consulting company and still 
> enjoy supporting open source free z390 Portable Mainframe Assembler and 
> Emulator that you can install on Windows or Linux so you can continue to
> roll HLASM compatible mainframe assembler.
> You don't ever want to forget those 
> 1200+ opcodes including new z196 opcodes. 

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Re: Retired

[Don Higgins]

All

Best wishes on retirement!  Old habits are hard to break, but their are so 
many new and exciting opportunities to learn new skills.  At 66 I've retired 
from 25 years at Florida Power and 9 years at Micro Focus rolling IBM 
mainframe assembler solutions.  Now I still have consulting company and still 
enjoy supporting open source free z390 Portable Mainframe Assembler and 
Emulator that you can install on Windows or Linux so you can continue to roll 
HLASM compatible mainframe assembler.  You don't ever want to forget those 
1200+ opcodes including new z196 opcodes. 

But I find myself spending more time on new exciting opportunities like reading 
WSJ on my Kindle any time anywhere, keeping up with family and friends on 
Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter social networks, enjoying new Rotarians On 
Social Networks Fellowship (ROSNF www.rosnf.net).  I am blessed with 2 
daughters and 4 grandchildren which I say YES to all the time.  This week my 
granddaughter Lily showed me how to use new app to make cupcakes on her 
mom's iPhone.  And my daughter showed me new iPhone app to identify all the 
stars and constalations by just pointing iPhone at region of night sky.  It's 
really exciting to think about what my grandchildren will be doing with 
technology by the time they get to college.  My first college computer course 
was FORTRAN using punched cards on an IBM 1410.  When I got back my first 
compile and execution listing, I knew I had to learn what it all meant.

Don Higgins
d...@higgins.net
www.don-higgins.net

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Re: How/Why Is This Looping?

[Jan MOEYERSONS]

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 23:50:43 -0500, Paul Gilmartin  
wrote:

>A recent thread here mentioned "atomic rename" of Classic data sets.
>I don't think there is such a thing, but I tried to synthesize it
>with:
>

I've run your example here and it behaves exactly as I expected: 
- the allocate dd(atomic) new delete dsn(TEMP.DUP1) fails because the 
dataset already exists.
- the delete TEMP.DUP1 simply deletes it.
- the  rename TEMP.DUP2  TEMP.DUP1 renames...
- the  free dd(atomic) fails because it was never allocated.


ICH70001I JANTJE LAST ACCESS AT 11:17:35 ON MONDAY, APRIL 4, 2011
IEF236I ALLOC. FOR JANTJEM RENAME
IEF237I JES2 ALLOCATED TO SYSTSPRT
IEF237I JES2 ALLOCATED TO SYSTSIN
IGD103I SMS ALLOCATED TO DDNAME SYS1
IGD104I JANTJE.TEMP.DUP1RETAINED,  
DDNAME=SYS1
IGD103I SMS ALLOCATED TO DDNAME SYS2
IGD104I JANTJE.TEMP.DUP2RETAINED,  
DDNAME=SYS2
IEF142I JANTJEM RENAME - STEP WAS EXECUTED - COND CODE 0012
IEF285I   JANTJE.JANTJEM.JOB24384.D102.? SYSOUT
IEF285I   JANTJE.JANTJEM.JOB24384.D101.? SYSIN
IEF373I STEP/RENAME  /START 2011094.1222
IEF374I STEP/RENAME  /STOP  2011094.1222 CPU0MIN 00.03SEC SRB
0MIN 00.00SEC V
IEF202I JANTJEM ENQ - STEP WAS NOT RUN BECAUSE OF CONDITION CODES
IEF272I JANTJEM ENQ - STEP WAS NOT EXECUTED.
IEF373I STEP/ENQ /START 2011094.1222
IEF374I STEP/ENQ /STOP  2011094.1222 CPU0MIN 00.00SEC SRB0MIN 
00.00SEC V
IEF375I  JOB/JANTJEM/START 2011094.1222
IEF376I  JOB/JANTJEM/STOP  2011094.1222 CPU0MIN 00.03SEC SRB
0MIN 00.00SEC


READY
allocate dd(atomic) new delete dsn(TEMP.DUP1)
IKJ56893I DATA SET JANTJE.TEMP.DUP1 NOT ALLOCATED+
IGD17101I DATA SET JANTJE.TEMP.DUP1
NOT DEFINED BECAUSE DUPLICATE NAME EXISTS IN CATALOG
RETURN CODE IS 8 REASON CODE IS 38 IGG0CLEH
READY
delete TEMP.DUP1
IDC0550I ENTRY (A) JANTJE.TEMP.DUP1 DELETED
READY
rename TEMP.DUP2  TEMP.DUP1
READY
free dd(atomic)
IKJ56247I FILE ATOMIC NOT FREED, IS NOT ALLOCATED
READY
END


Cheers,

Jantje.

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Re: Host integration server connection to mainframe (BIZTALK)

[John Zarzeck]

Hi Jags,

Microsoft Host Integration Server provides SNA connectivity - it is the
follow-on product to Microsoft SNA server. We have a few HIS machines using
SNA to our mainframes - the obvious connectivity to use is Enterprise
Extender, which is APPN/HPR over IP. Configuration is fairly straightforward
- if you understand APPN and IP configuration on the mainframe.  On the
mainframe, APPN - and an IP stack are required. You need to talk to whoever
supports Communications Server on your mainframe. (I am assuming here that
you have IP connectivity on your mainframe!).

Out of curiosity, why are you running such a back-level version of z/OS?

Cheers,
John Zarzeck

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: 03 April 2011 13:57
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Host integration server connection to mainframe (BIZTALK)

> 
> This is Biz-talk server 2007.
> The Mainframe Machine is Z800.
> Operating system version is 1.6.
> 
> Regards,
> Jags
> 
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Lizette Koehler
wrote:
> 
> >  >
> > > Is there anyone who has an idea on connection of Host integration
> > > server
> > to
> > > mainframes.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Jags
> > >
> >
> > Is this a BizTalk server?  What version 2007 2010, etc...
> > What mainframes?  z9  z10, what version of Operating system z/OS V1.??
> >
> > I guess this is a Microsoft Server?
> >
> >

I am not aware of any native function in z/OS that will talk with Biztalk.
However, you might be trying to use DB2?  TCPIP?  FTP?   SNA?

You need to let us know what function your BIZTALK/MAINFRAME process will
be.

Have you GOOGLE'd  the BIZTALK MAINFRAME keywords?  I found this entry which
may be close to what you are looking at doing?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163294.aspx

Lizette
 

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This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the 
addressee and may also be privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable 
law. If you are not the addressee, or have received this e-mail in error, 
please notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and do not 
copy, disclose or otherwise act upon any part of this e-mail or its attachments.

Internet communications are not guaranteed to be secure or virus-free.
The Barclays Group does not accept responsibility for any loss arising from 
unauthorised access to, or interference with, any Internet communications by 
any third party, or from the transmission of any viruses. Replies to this 
e-mail may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business 
reasons.

Any opinion or other information in this e-mail or its attachments that does 
not relate to the business of the Barclays Group is personal to the sender and 
is not given or endorsed by the Barclays Group.

Barclays Bank PLC.Registered in England and Wales (registered no. 1026167).
Registered Office: 1 Churchill Place, London, E14 5HP, United Kingdom.

Barclays Bank PLC is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services 
Authority.

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Re: TSOLIB, BLDL & RDJFCB

[Etienne Thijsse]

On Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:31:23 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)  wrote:

>In , on 03/30/2011
>   at 12:27 PM, Etienne Thijsse  said:
>
>>Thank you for your reply, but that does not seem to be the solution.
>
>It is.
>
>>If I feed TCBJLB to BLDL, then it will only succeed under batch;
>
>There is no difference in this regard between backgtound and
>foreground. If anybody specifies a tasklib then you must do as
>Binyamin stated.
>
>>under TSO it will fail,
>
>Under batch it may fail as well; you need to continue with the parent
>TCB. BTW, it may not fail under TSO.
>
>>Before, I gave BLDL simply 0
>
>That has the effect of trying TCBJLB from the current TCB on up.
>However, it does not identify relevant DCB.
>
>>In PSATOLD, TCBTCB is zero
>
>That's the chain pointer, not the parent pointer. Try TCBOTC.
>
>--
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT

Thanks to Benyamin I have made good progress, it looks like I have it working 
now. TCBOTC is a new one, I didn't hear about that one yet. I will investigate 
this... see in what situation I need to do this.

Thanks,
Etienne

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