Re: CMS load module format
In m3wrcop3b1@garlic.com, on 10/01/2011 at 09:53 PM, Anne Lynn Wheeler l...@garlic.com said: move to vm370/cms and 3270 ... the standard cms editor was updated to display a fullscreen of the file That worked on more than the 3270 family; it also worked on the console[1] of the 360/168. [1] Compatible with nonthing except the consoles of the 360/85 and 370/165. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
In m3vcs75enl@garlic.com, on 10/02/2011 at 04:20 PM, Anne Lynn Wheeler l...@garlic.com said: what i remember was that in the above typical screen layout ... was that prefix area was standard EDGAR feature Yes, but could you enter macro invocations in the prefix area, or only predefined line commands? XEDIT had prefix macros and a SET PENDING command so that a prefix macro could insert macro invocations into the prefix areas, to be acted on at the next ENTER. Did EDGAR have an equivalent? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes: That worked on more than the 3270 family; it also worked on the console[1] of the 360/168. [1] Compatible with nonthing except the consoles of the 360/85 and 370/165. re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#30 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#34 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#36 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#41 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#42 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#44 CMS load module format I had done something similar as undergraduate in the 60s with a 2250m1 vector graphics (aka channel attached) for cp67/cms. Lincoln Labs had done a fortran subroutine 2250 driver library for cms ... and I borrowed their code for the editor. this is 2250m4 (i.e. 2250m1 was 360 channel attached with controller, for about the same price as 2250m1, you could get a 2250m4 which came with a 1130 in the package ... in place of the controller box) http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/2250.html another image of 2250 http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/2250-ad.gif 360/91 had 2250 as operators terminal http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/36091.html for other drift, cambridge science center (did virtual machines cp/40, cp/67, lots of online applications, invented GML ... which later morphs into SGML HTML ... early performance work that turns into capacity planning, bunch of other stuff) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech had 2250m4 (aka w/1130) and there was version of spacewars implemented http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edson_Hendricks misc. past posts mentioning having modified cp67/cms editor to drive 2250-1 vector graphics: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#41 A word processor from 1960 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#22 When did full-screen come to VM/370? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#20 6600 Console was Re: CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#22 Computer Terminal Design Over the Years http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#73 They Got Mail: Not-So-Fond Farewells http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#64 Graphics on the IBM 2260? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005k.html#22 Where should the type information be? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#45 Anyone know whether VM/370 EDGAR is still available anywhere? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#28 MCTS http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#62 PC premiered 40 years ago to awed crowd http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009s.html#0 tty http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010g.html#13 An Interview with Watts Humphrey, Part 6: The IBM 360 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010g.html#57 An Interview with Watts Humphrey, Part 6: The IBM 360 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010j.html#11 Information on obscure text editors wanted http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011g.html#45 My first mainframe experience http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011j.html#4 Announcement of the disk drive (1956) -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes: Yes, but could you enter macro invocations in the prefix area, or only predefined line commands? XEDIT had prefix macros and a SET PENDING command so that a prefix macro could insert macro invocations into the prefix areas, to be acted on at the next ENTER. Did EDGAR have an equivalent? I hardly used EDGAR at all, using RED NED (for files larger than virtual memory size) ... so don't really know. Something in the (edgar) SOS description talks about pushing keystrokes for later invokation ... but I never got that intimate with EDGAR (whether or not that would result in something similar) past posts: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#30 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#34 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#36 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#41 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#42 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#44 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#49 CMS load module format -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
In b1b815ba-4a83-4b17-a741-0d577d944...@yahoo.com, on 10/01/2011 at 06:30 PM, Ed Gould ps2...@yahoo.com said: EDGAR was deceit but I still preferred ISPF. ITYM decent. Did EDGAR have prefix macros like XEDIT had? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes: ITYM decent. Did EDGAR have prefix macros like XEDIT had? xedit wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XEDIT what i remember was that in the above typical screen layout ... was that prefix area was standard EDGAR feature and there was xedit macro that would setup edgar lookfeel (although i have some vague recollection using edgar prefix area on the right rather than the left). I found this (posted 20Nov89 from somebody at EARN/CEARN) http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=XEDITTXTft=MEMO from above: No special XEDIT setting other than my standard EDGAR (prefix on the right so I can use the next line key, no scale/tabline nonsense, nulls on, stay on, wrap on, case ignore, in other words, the opposite of most XEDIT default settings :-) ). ... snip ... old post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#23 references: Historical Manuals CMS Reference (feb/mar 1984) http://ukcc.uky.edu/ukccinfo/391/cmsref.html from above: XEDIT no longer supports EDGAR simulation mode, and the EDGAR and ECOMMAND commands are no longer available. ... snip ... i.e. drop support for EDGAR macro (ECOMMAND) syntax. from long ago and far away: Date: 06/29/81 21:40:38 To: wheeler Fro: somebody austrailia Re: RED - XEDIT .. I haven't had too much trouble migrating to XEDIT. My EDGAR stuff was easy. The NED stuff not so easy, but not too hard (being restricted to getting the whole file in-storage can be quite a restriction), but there's not much one can do about the lack of RED's pattern-matching facilities .. that's a REAL pain! Re: PARASITE .. on the weekend I had a chance to try the newest version you sent me during (yet another) VM/SP test time .. I still have the same problems with having to hit ENTER twice to get any action, and with it dozing off in the middle of a lot of line-by-line output. It seems to be not getting (or handling) the interrupts from CP. Didn't someone else report a similar problem? Any thoughts/comments on my input re CJNTEL and PARASITE last time (re-sending after this VMSG)? Regards, ... snip ... ned was one of the editor's mentioned in previous post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#41 that includes excerpt from edit comparison from old email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email790606 in this post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#26 NED was the most compute overhead of all the editors ... but NED also included the ability to edit file larger than would fit in virtual memory (as referenced in above). PARASITE was small CMS terminal emulator application using the VM logical device extensions (used by PVM) It had a companion routine STORY that was terminal scripting application (both would run in CMS transient area). old post with PARASITE/STORY references http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#35 followup post contains STORY for automatically loging into RETAIN and retrieving PUT bucket http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#36 CJNTEL was an internal network online facility that allowed remote query of name/phone for increasing parts of the corporation (had access to online internal telephone books). some old email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#cjntel VMSG was internal email client. An very early 0.x VMSG source version was picked up by the PROFS group and used for their email client. When the VMSG author contacted PROFS group and offerred them a much more complete 1.0 source, the PROFS group attempted to get him fired (denying that they were using VMSG). The whole thing quieted down after the VMSG authored pointed out that every PROFS note in the world had his initials in a non-displayed field. After that the source was restricted to two of us (besides the VMSG author). misc. past posts mentioning VMSG: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#35 why is there an @ key? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#46 Does the word mainframe still have a meaning? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#35 Newbie TOPS-10 7.03 question http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#39 Newbie TOPS-10 7.03 question http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#40 Newbie TOPS-10 7.03 question http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#14 Mail system scalability (Was: Re: Itanium troubles) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#58 history of CMS http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#4 HONE, , misc http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#34 VSE (Was: Re: Refusal to change was Re: LE and COBOL) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#13 Mainframe Virus http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#43 FULIST http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#44 FULIST http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#4 Fast action games on System/360+? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#23 sorting was: The System/360 Model 20 Wasn't As Bad As All That http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#42 The Future of CPUs: What's After Multi-Core? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#17 Jim Gray Is Missing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#13 Why is
Re: CMS load module format
Phil, We had vm on a 4331 for testing. I think we had Edgar (40 years) is I long time to remember. My fuzzy memory was that it came with the IPO. IBM had xedit in the IBM Ed centers and there were enough differences at times I would swear at the 3270. Then on top of that DOSVSE Had it's own editor which was just plain bad. EDGAR was deceit but I still preferred ISPF. Ed On Sep 30, 2011, at 9:42 PM, Phil Smith III li...@akphs.com wrote: Stephen Powell wrote: Yes, I remember that. But there was a full-screen 3270 editor similar to XEDIT available with VM/370 release 6 called EDGAR. I think it was an add-on product. I don't think it was part of VM/370. Yes, Edgar was an add-on product. It was somewhat similar to XEDIT in a lot of ways. There were apparently a number of full-screen CMS editors inside IBM, but XEDIT is the one that got picked for VM/SP. ...phsiii -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
Ed, I have a strong suggestion. If you don't remember something clearly, don't post. You're always saying I think, or mentioning your fuzzy memory. If you're not sure, don't post. I have the same problem, and if I'm not sure of my facts, I don't post, or I look it up. Eric Bielefeld Sr. Systems Programmer - Original Message - From: Ed Gould ps2...@yahoo.com Phil, We had vm on a 4331 for testing. I think we had Edgar (40 years) is I long time to remember. My fuzzy memory was that it came with the IPO. IBM had xedit in the IBM Ed centers and there were enough differences at times I would swear at the 3270. Then on top of that DOSVSE Had it's own editor which was just plain bad. EDGAR was deceit but I still preferred ISPF. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
In 985915eee6984740ae93f8495c624c6c21dc349...@jscpcwexmaa1.bsg.ad.adp.com, on 09/30/2011 at 08:52 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com said: There is no version of XEDIT available in any form (or wasn't the last time I checked, anyway). XEDIT only came with VM/SP2 and up, I believe. That's correct. There is a clone, but AFAIK The Hessling Editor (THE) won't run on Virtual Machine Facility/370. IIRC there is no easy FTP in or out of VM/370. Your only real transfer capability is the VM/370 system reader and punch. RSCS[1]. You need a CTCA or BSC link to use it. [1] Can only handle print and punch files, alas. However, you mentioned a couple of programs that can transoform files into card images. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
In 201109291802.p8ti2a7x001...@dave.dignus.com, on 09/29/2011 at 02:02 PM, Thomas David Rivers riv...@dignus.com said: Can anyone point me to a description of the CMS non-relocatable load module format? For Virtual Machine Facility/370, but not for any of the chargeable versions. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Eric Bielefeld eric-ibmm...@wi.rr.com wrote: Ed, I have a strong suggestion. If you don't remember something clearly, don't post. You're always saying I think, or mentioning your fuzzy memory. If you're not sure, don't post. I have the same problem, and if I'm not sure of my facts, I don't post, or I look it up. Wow. We're discussing history here. As noted, 40 years is a long time; his post may well jog others' memories. There are a number of frequent offenders who would do well not to contribute. Ed isn't one of them. You don't like his posts, unsubscribe or learn to use a killfile. You might also learn to use email -- a comment like yours would be better sent privately. -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
li...@akphs.com (Phil Smith III) writes: Yes, Edgar was an add-on product. It was somewhat similar to XEDIT in a lot of ways. There were apparently a number of full-screen CMS editors inside IBM, but XEDIT is the one that got picked for VM/SP. x-over from z/vm mailing list: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#36 CMS load module format original cp67/cms edit worked somewhat more like unix sed ... where read read original file as stream outputing to temp/work file and then would ping backforth between two temp/work files before replacing the original file. a new editor was created that ran out of cms (virtual) memory ... and the previous edit was renamed cedit (the new edit could only handle files that would fit in virtual memory ... but cedit could edit arbitrary large files ... larger than available memory). move to vm370/cms and 3270 ... the standard cms editor was updated to display a fullscreen of the file ... but retained command line operation. EDGAR added fullscreen editing ... i.e. changes could be made directly to data displayed on screen ... as well as other commands on each line. By the time of xedit, there were quite a few internal full-screen editors that were quite robust and had large number of functions. I had gotten involved in trying to justify one of these others as alternative to xedit ... old post in ibm-main http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#26 that includees these old emails http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email781103 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email790606 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email800311 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email800312 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email800429 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email800501 In one case, there was comment from the Endicott edit release group that it was the fault of the author of one of these other editors that it was more robust and had more function than xedit ... and therefor it should be his responsibility to make all the enhancements to xedit (as opposed to releasing his editor). this is trivial benchmark from Jun79 of various cms editors (giving virtual total cpu use for edit of same file): EDIT CMSLIB MACLIB S 2.53/2.81 RED CMSLIB MACLIB S (NODEF) 2.91/3.12 ZED CMSLIB MACLIB S5.83/6.52 EDGAR CMSLIB MACLIB S 5.96/6.45 SPF CMSLIB MACLIB S ( WHOLE ) 6.66/7.52 XEDIT CMSLIB MACLIB S 14.05/14.88 NED CMSLIB MACLIB S 15.70/16.52 EDIT is the standard CMS edit ... all the other editors were fullscreen and nearly all were more robust and except for NED was significantly more efficient than XEDIT. As an aside ... one of the above emails makes reference to sending me tape for system distribution. One of my hobbies was creating, distributing, and supporting highly enhanced operating systems for internal use. this old email mentions doing csc/vm for internal distribution: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email750102 in this post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#7 this old email makes some mention doing sjr/vm for internal distribution http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#email830709 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#email830711 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#email830711b in this post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#12 and then there were operations like HONE which would do world-wide re-distributions for the HONE-clones all over the world ... misc. past posts mentioning HONE http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
These things take on religious zeal pretty quickly. I was having a pretty good tussle with the VMer's in our shop about ISPF under VM and they wrote some real poison pen memos to the PHB's. Guess the silencer was we did a little tour and they were all using Qedit or what ever it was called then(same vendor that did original Super Session) and ISPF development let you choose your editor in profile. In a message dated 10/1/2011 8:53:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, l...@garlic.com writes: In one case, there was comment from the Endicott edit release group that it was the fault of the author of one of these other editors that it was more robust and had more function than xedit ... and therefor it should be his responsibility to make all the enhancements to xedit (as opposed to releasing his editor). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
Ed Finnell wrote: These things take on religious zeal pretty quickly. I was having a pretty good tussle with the VMer's in our shop about ISPF under VM and they wrote some real poison pen memos to the PHB's. Guess the silencer was we did a little tour and they were all using Qedit or what ever it was called then(same vendor that did original Super Session) and ISPF development let you choose your editor in profile. Yeah, editors are definitely religion. But ISPF on VM sucked unequivocally just because of how fragile it was, due to how they implemented it - whether you liked the functionality or not, having to deal with it breaking all the time was horrible. And left a very bad taste in many VMers' mouths that may or may not have been deserved (he said, trying desperately to avoid the religious part of the argument!). I'm using ISPF now, and while I find a number of things about it frustrating, there are also neat things. And some fraction of the frustrations are just because my hands are trained to do XEDIT stuff after all these years. The other day, I did a FIND in KEDIT when I meant to do a LOCATE, so now I'm just confused! (I also have Cygwin installed on Windows, which leaves me even more messed up as to what command is likely to work in any given environment, as I move among systems. I feel like Walter Matthau in House Calls, in which he says something like There ought to be just one blood type. A. Or O. Doesn't really matter: there ought to be ONE command to do the same thing in all OSes!) ...phsiii -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
p...@voltage.com (Phil Smith) writes: Yeah, editors are definitely religion. But ISPF on VM sucked unequivocally just because of how fragile it was, due to how they implemented it - whether you liked the functionality or not, having to deal with it breaking all the time was horrible. And left a very bad taste in many VMers' mouths that may or may not have been deserved (he said, trying desperately to avoid the religious part of the argument!). ISPF had a different VM issue involving the VM performance tools group ... misc. past posts mentioning tale told at share (i.e. diverting funds from tools group into ISPF development): http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#17 Where's all the VMers? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#33 XEDIT on MVS http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#40 FULIST http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#50 TSO and more was: PDP-1 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009s.html#46 DEC-10 SOS Editor Intra-Line Editing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010g.html#6 Call for XEDIT freaks, submit ISPF requirements http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010g.html#50 Call for XEDIT freaks, submit ISPF requirements http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#84 Set numbers off permanently http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#62 Do you remember back to June 23, 1969 when IBM unbundled past posts in this thread: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#30 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#34 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#36 CMS load module format http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#41 CMS load module format -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
Hello all, following this discussion yesterday, I tried to play a little bit with Hercules for the first time. I followed one of the links below and succeeded so far with installing Hercules and a VM/370 R6 installation which does IPL, and I have some X3270 sessions to connect to VM. I did VM some 15 years ago and forgot many of the details. I would like to try some PL/1 and COBOL compiles on this VM, because all these things seem to be there, even ALGOL and PL360. But when I call the PL/1 compiler, I get an error in DMSLADAD, maybe a 0C1. There is also a message, when I enter the CMS user called PLI: CMSSEG SYSTEM NAME 'CMSSEG' NOT AVAILABLE. I believe that there should be a shared segment named CMSSEG present, which is not. Maybe this is the reason for the 0C1. Maybe one of you could help me offline with this? This would be very nice. Some further questions: is it possible to get some version of XEDIT running on this release? how would you do file transfer in and out of this VM to normal PC textfiles in the most convenient manner? Kind regards Bernd Am 29.09.2011 20:20, schrieb Anne Lynn Wheeler: riv...@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) writes: Can anyone point me to a description of the CMS non-relocatable load module format? I can't seem to find it anywhere... (i.e. the output of the CMS GENMOD command.) old/original ... part of vm370/cms release 6 dmsmod assemble file from hercules/cbttape distribution (more detailed information in actual source): * GENMOD ISSUES THE START (NO) COMMAND TO FINISH LOADING OF 00116000 * OBJECT PROGRAMS. NEXT ERASE THE OLD MODULE IF IT EXISTS. 00117000 * THE START AND ENDING LOCATIONS ARE DETERMINED FROM THE00118000 * USER OPTIONS 'TO' AND 'FROM' OR BY DEFAULT. THE DEFAULT 00119000 * START IS THE ADDRESS OF THE FIRST LOADER TABLE NAME, THE 0012 * DEFAULT END IS THE CURRENT SETTING OF LOCCNT IN NUCON.00121000 * AN EIGHTY BYTE RECORD IS WRITTEN AS THE FIRST RECORD OF THE 00122000 * THE MODULE. THIS RECORD CONSISTS OF THE NUCON LOADER INFORMA- 00123000 * TION. NEXT THE TEXT INFORMATION IS WRITTEN TO THE MODULE 00124000 * FILE IN VARIABLE SIZE RECORDS UP TO 65535 BYTES. IF THE 00125000 * MODULE IS NOT FOR A TRANSIENT ROUTINE AND NOMAP WAS NOT 00126000 * SPECIFIED THE LOADER TABLE IS WRITTEN AS THE LAST MODULE 00127000 * FILE RECORD. CLOSE THE NEW MODULE FILE AND RETURN TO THE 00128000 * CALLER. 00129000 http://www.cbttape.org/vm6.htm http://www.cbttape.org/awstape.htm http://www.smrcc.org.uk/members/g4ugm/VM370.htm -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
Bernd, There is a pretty active Yahoo group for help with Hercules problems to which you should direct your questions: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/ And there is one for VM/370 too: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hercules-VM370/ However, I can answer one or two of your questions: There is no version of XEDIT available in any form (or wasn't the last time I checked, anyway). XEDIT only came with VM/SP2 and up, I believe. IIRC there is no easy FTP in or out of VM/370. Your only real transfer capability is the VM/370 system reader and punch. The VMARC format (like XMIT) packages text in 80-byte records and can be transmitted back and forth using reader and punch. There are both MVS 3.8 and VM/370 versions of VMARC, so files created in MVS 3.8 can be transmitted back and forth with VM/370. There is also a VM/370 dump command which writes files to the punch, but I forget the output format that it uses. I haven't been active on Hercules for a long while now, so take all my answers with a large grain of salt. You should join at least the main Hercules group and seek help there. HTH Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bernd Oppolzer Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 3:51 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CMS load module format Hello all, following this discussion yesterday, I tried to play a little bit with Hercules for the first time. I followed one of the links below and succeeded so far with installing Hercules and a VM/370 R6 installation which does IPL, and I have some X3270 sessions to connect to VM. I did VM some 15 years ago and forgot many of the details. I would like to try some PL/1 and COBOL compiles on this VM, because all these things seem to be there, even ALGOL and PL360. But when I call the PL/1 compiler, I get an error in DMSLADAD, maybe a 0C1. There is also a message, when I enter the CMS user called PLI: CMSSEG SYSTEM NAME 'CMSSEG' NOT AVAILABLE. I believe that there should be a shared segment named CMSSEG present, which is not. Maybe this is the reason for the 0C1. Maybe one of you could help me offline with this? This would be very nice. Some further questions: is it possible to get some version of XEDIT running on this release? how would you do file transfer in and out of this VM to normal PC textfiles in the most convenient manner? -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
peter.far...@broadridge.com (Farley, Peter x23353) writes: IIRC there is no easy FTP in or out of VM/370. Your only real transfer capability is the VM/370 system reader and punch. The VMARC format (like XMIT) packages text in 80-byte records and can be transmitted back and forth using reader and punch. There are both MVS 3.8 and VM/370 versions of VMARC, so files created in MVS 3.8 can be transmitted back and forth with VM/370. There is also a VM/370 dump command which writes files to the punch, but I forget the output format that it uses. re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#30 CMS load module format ... note lots of os/360 (/or mvs) applications/compilers were ported to CMS by implementing simulation of os/360 access method services (on cms filesystem, this is different from simulation of os/360 access method services on real mvs disks mentioned below). CMSSEG was introduced in vm370 release 3 with DCSS (a very small subset of my paged-mapped filesystem and virtual memory management changes mentioned below). OS simulation should be in CMSSEG (there was joke about 32kbyte OS/360 simulation code in CMSSEG was much more cost effective OS/360 simulation than the 8mbyte OS/360 simulation in MVS). this has discussion about standard hercules distribution and whether cmsseg definition is in conflict with the cms virtual machine size you are using: http://osdir.com/ml/emulators.hercules390.vm/2003-11/msg00132.html disk dump/load was one of the original cms (when it was cambridge monitor system on cp67 ... before morph to vm370 and name change to conversational monitor system) commands from mid-60s. The original CMS filesystem formated disks into 800-byte fixed length physical records (early form of FBA). a similar gimick (temporary changing file format to 800-byte fixed-length records) was also used by the cms tape dump/load application ... but physical 800-byte blocks on tape. from dmsdsk (also from vm370 release 6) *DUMP: DISK COPIES THE FILE DESIGNATION FROM THE 00096000 *PARAMETER LIST INTO BYTES 58 - 76 OF AN 89-BYTE 00097000 *BUFFER. (THE FIRST FOUR BYTES OF THE BUFFER CONTAIN 00098000 *ANIDENTIFIERCONSISTING OFANINTERNAL 00099000 *REPRESENTATION OF A 12-2-9 PUNCH AND THE CHARACTERS 0010 *'CMS'.) THENDISK TEMPORARILYCHANGES THE 00101000 *CHARACTERISTICS OF THE FILE IN THE 40-BYTE FST ENTRY 00102000 *TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS A FILE OF 800-BYTE FIXED-LENGTH 00103000 *RECORDS. (THE CORRECT FST ENTRY IS RESTORED WHEN THE 00104000 *FILE HAS BEEN DUMPED, OF COURSE.) DISK MOVES THE 00105000 *INITIAL VALUE FOR SEQUENCING 00106000 *(001) INTO BYTES 77-80 OF THE BUFFER. DISK NEXT 00107000 *CALLS THE DMSBRD FUNCTION 00108000 *PROGRAM TO READ THE FIRST 50 BYTES OF THE TEMPORARY 00109000 *COPY INTO 0011 *BYTES 6-55 OF THE BUFFER AND THEN THE DMSCIO FUNCTION 00111000 *PROGRAM TO PUNCH 00112000 *THE CONTENTS OF THE BUFFER. HAVING PUNCHED THE FIRST 00113000 *CARD, DISK INCREMENTS THE SEQUENCE NUMBER (BYTES 00114000 *77-80 OF THE OUTPUT BUFFER) AND OVERLAYS BYTES 6-55 00115000 *OF THE BUFFER WITH THE NEXT 50 BYTES OF THE FILE 00116000 *BY CALLING DMSBRD. IT THEN PUNCHES THE CONTENTS OF 00117000 *THE00118000 *BUFFER.DISK REPEATS THIS PROCESS FOR EACH 00119000 *SUBSEQUENT 50 BYTES OF DATA IN THE TEMPORARY DISK 0012 *FILE. WHEN THE END-OF-FILE IS ENCOUNTERED, DISK 00121000 *GENERATES AN END CARD (ONE WITH N IN COLUMN 5) AND 00122000 *PUNCHES IT,00123000 *CALLS THE CP CLOSE COMMAND TO CLOSE PUNCH 00124000 ... snip ... During the FS period ... some past posts http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys lots of 370 development (both software hardware) was cut back all over the company. with the failure of FS ... there was mad rush to get stuff back into the 370 product pipelines. This was motivation for picking up a lot of 370 stuff I had been doing all during the FS period for vm370 release 3 ... some old email related to converting enhancing bunch of stuff from cp67 to vm370: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#email731212 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email750102 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email750430 and then additional stuff
Re: CMS load module format
Farley, Peter wrote, in part: There is no version of XEDIT available in any form (or wasn't the last time I checked, anyway). XEDIT only came with VM/SP2 and up, I believe. VM/SP Release 1. Not that it matters, but the gods of historical correctness must be appeased! ...phsiii -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
Anne Lynn Wheeler wrote: riv...@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) writes: Can anyone point me to a description of the CMS non-relocatable load module format? I can't seem to find it anywhere... (i.e. the output of the CMS GENMOD command.) old/original ... part of vm370/cms release 6 dmsmod assemble file from hercules/cbttape distribution (more detailed information in actual source): * GENMOD ISSUES THE START (NO) COMMAND TO FINISH LOADING OF 00116000 Thanks Lynn! I was able to locate the DMSMOD source you reference there... on reading that, I see that the format is an 80-byte record, which contains 80 bytes from the NUCON starting at the STRTADDR offset. Then, you have 'n' records; each up to 65535 bytes in length that are the bytes of the module. Presumably the difference between BEGINNING ADDRESS and ENDING ADDRESS from the NUCON describe how many bytes that is (and, there is no possibility of a short record.) Following those bytes, there is the optional loader-table. Just thought I would lay this out in case somene in the future was curious. Thanks again for the pointer! - Dave Rivers - -- riv...@dignus.comWork: (919) 676-0847 Get your mainframe programming tools at http://www.dignus.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
Stephen Powell wrote: Yes, I remember that. But there was a full-screen 3270 editor similar to XEDIT available with VM/370 release 6 called EDGAR. I think it was an add-on product. I don't think it was part of VM/370. Yes, Edgar was an add-on product. It was somewhat similar to XEDIT in a lot of ways. There were apparently a number of full-screen CMS editors inside IBM, but XEDIT is the one that got picked for VM/SP. ...phsiii -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
CMS load module format
Can anyone point me to a description of the CMS non-relocatable load module format? I can't seem to find it anywhere... (i.e. the output of the CMS GENMOD command.) - Thanks! - - Dave Rivers - -- riv...@dignus.comWork: (919) 676-0847 Get your mainframe programming tools at http://www.dignus.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CMS load module format
riv...@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) writes: Can anyone point me to a description of the CMS non-relocatable load module format? I can't seem to find it anywhere... (i.e. the output of the CMS GENMOD command.) old/original ... part of vm370/cms release 6 dmsmod assemble file from hercules/cbttape distribution (more detailed information in actual source): * GENMOD ISSUES THE START (NO) COMMAND TO FINISH LOADING OF 00116000 * OBJECT PROGRAMS. NEXT ERASE THE OLD MODULE IF IT EXISTS. 00117000 * THE START AND ENDING LOCATIONS ARE DETERMINED FROM THE00118000 * USER OPTIONS 'TO' AND 'FROM' OR BY DEFAULT. THE DEFAULT 00119000 * START IS THE ADDRESS OF THE FIRST LOADER TABLE NAME, THE 0012 * DEFAULT END IS THE CURRENT SETTING OF LOCCNT IN NUCON.00121000 * AN EIGHTY BYTE RECORD IS WRITTEN AS THE FIRST RECORD OF THE 00122000 * THE MODULE. THIS RECORD CONSISTS OF THE NUCON LOADER INFORMA- 00123000 * TION. NEXT THE TEXT INFORMATION IS WRITTEN TO THE MODULE 00124000 * FILE IN VARIABLE SIZE RECORDS UP TO 65535 BYTES. IF THE 00125000 * MODULE IS NOT FOR A TRANSIENT ROUTINE AND NOMAP WAS NOT 00126000 * SPECIFIED THE LOADER TABLE IS WRITTEN AS THE LAST MODULE 00127000 * FILE RECORD. CLOSE THE NEW MODULE FILE AND RETURN TO THE 00128000 * CALLER. 00129000 http://www.cbttape.org/vm6.htm http://www.cbttape.org/awstape.htm http://www.smrcc.org.uk/members/g4ugm/VM370.htm -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
