Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
Edward, Ed, Edward Jaffe wrote: Now, if you can just convince the more stubborn list participants to actually follow the documented standard, I'll consider flying to Amsterdam (or wherever you're located in the Netherlands) to personally buy you a beer! (And, maybe see some of the sights while I'm there.) ;-) I just found the newer RFC while googling for signature separator. Convincing others, to do something I myself do not quite understand, might be a bit hard. ;) Nevertheless, you are welcome to the Netherlands, even without the free beer. Ed Rohr wrote: Amsterdam could be a problem... I understand that they have terrible traffic problems and lots of red lights, Mostly true. The traffic is terrible, so I try to avoid Amsterdam. There are a lot of red lights. Even a 'red light district' ;) And it is almost impossible to get a coffee in a coffee house. The dutch are addicted to coffee. Coffee IS available in coffee houses. I am not sure about the availability of coffee in coffee shops. The few times I visited coffee shops, it wasn't for coffee. And if you go to the museum there is this guy who puts the ear where the nose should be I assume you mean the 'Stedelijk Museum' Never been there, but I know about the painting. He probably visited a coffee shop prior to painting it. Or, like van Gogh, he liked Absinthe. I am not sure about sights in the Netherlands. Most German tourists come to visit the beaches. The other tourists go to Amsterdam and maybe some of the fishing- and cheese-towns. Of course the coffee shops are always very popular with the younger tourists. The Delta-works are also nice to see. As a city, I prefer Rotterdam, which was bombed in the early stages of WWII and rebuild spaciously. My home is in a small village, south of Rotterdam, surrounded bij polders, sea-dykes. -- Maarten Slegtenhorst - ATTENTION: The information in this electronic mail message is private and confidential, and only intended for the addressee. Should you receive this message by mistake, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or use of this message is strictly prohibited. Please inform the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or opening it. Messages and attachments are scanned for all viruses known. If this message contains password-protected attachments, the files have NOT been scanned for viruses by the ING mail domain. Always scan attachments before opening them. - -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
With what ? == Schiradin,Roland HG-Dir itb-db/dc == wrote2007-07-31 00:41: 100 % agree Roland -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Knutson, Sam Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:50 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Question about the listserv -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- __ Mundus Vult Decipi __ They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
Veilleux, Jon L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, re RFC 2646: Is there any chance of getting this in clear English? Easy to follow examples, etc? Unless you're about to implement an email client, this RFC isn't relevant to you -- it's largely focused on formatting stuff so other mail clients can display it correctly. Not something an end-user can just magically (or even manually) make happen. (And even if you could, you couldn't force the other n recipients of your post to use a client that would unwind it correctly...) ...phsiii -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 09:03:56 -0400, Veilleux, Jon L wrote: I am not trying to implement an E-Mail client, just trying to conform to expectations for this list since some folks have complained about the way responses are formatted. Are you really? You are certainly not conforming to the RFC. Personally I prefer the html-like snip /snip format, I see that. It makes it very difficult to follow attributions when there are multiple levels of quoting. but it seems that other want quotes formatted with beginning each line As does the RFC (which only works if emails are fixed length records). Really? I read most of RFC 3676. Did you? It specifically addresses flowed text and the proper handling of quotes. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
Veilleux, Jon L wrote: I am not trying to implement an E-Mail client, just trying to conform to expectations for this list since some folks have complained about the way responses are formatted. Personally I prefer the html-like snip /snip format, but it seems that other want quotes formatted with beginning each line (which only works if emails are fixed length records). Your email client (e.g., Thunderbird) does all of this for you. There are settings to control how quotation is done. If you look at the message source (e.g., Ctrl+U in FireFox) you can see what's being generated under the covers. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
Phil Smith says snip Unless you're about to implement an email client, this RFC isn't relevant to you -- it's largely focused on formatting stuff so other mail clients can display it correctly. Not something an end-user can just magically (or even manually) make happen. (And even if you could, you couldn't force the other n recipients of your post to use a client that would unwind it correctly...) /snip I am not trying to implement an E-Mail client, just trying to conform to expectations for this list since some folks have complained about the way responses are formatted. Personally I prefer the html-like snip /snip format, but it seems that other want quotes formatted with beginning each line (which only works if emails are fixed length records). Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:33:09 -0400, Phil Smith III [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Veilleux, Jon L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, re RFC 2646: Is there any chance of getting this in clear English? Easy to follow examples, etc? There are several examples in RFC 3676. Unless you're about to implement an email client, this RFC isn't relevant to you -- it's largely focused on formatting stuff so other mail clients can display it correctly. That part is true Not something an end-user can just magically (or even manually) make happen. Well, not exactly, but many mailers can be set up to quote text in conformance with the RFC. And it's not that difficult to correct the quoting where necessary so that it maintains conformance with the RFC, with the correct number of quote marks on each line when your mailer splits a line. And inserting the signature separator is trivial. (And even if you could, you couldn't force the other n recipients of your post to use a client that would unwind it correctly...) A significant point of the RFC is that it looks like plain text because it *is* plain text. Any mailer that can handle plain text should have no problems at all, at least in English. I can't speak to the adequacy of the specifications for other languages. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
Edward, The RFC 2646 ( aug 1999 ) is made obsolete by RFC 3676 ( feb 2004 ) ;) http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt -- Maarten Slegtenhorst -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Edward Jaffe Verzonden: dinsdag 31 juli 2007 16:54 Aan: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Onderwerp: Re: Question about the listserv Arthur T. wrote: Of course, many E-mail programs would cut that off automatically if people would just use the defined standard sig separator: A line of dash dash space, as I use below. (No, I can't name the RFC that defines it, but I have seen it and it really is a defined standard.) In addition, all list participants should quote prior posts according to RFC 2646 (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2646.txt) Those who steadfastly refuse to do so infuse the list with improper attributions, improper nesting, and other strange formatting, all of which result in increased confusion and misunderstandings. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - ATTENTION: The information in this electronic mail message is private and confidential, and only intended for the addressee. Should you receive this message by mistake, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or use of this message is strictly prohibited. Please inform the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or opening it. Messages and attachments are scanned for all viruses known. If this message contains password-protected attachments, the files have NOT been scanned for viruses by the ING mail domain. Always scan attachments before opening them. - -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, Ed Gould wrote: On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, Ed Gould wrote: Correction: I sent you a rejected item saying I was not a member and asked why. I never heard back. Darren: Here is the partial copy of the email I sent to you: Darren, Is there a problem? Ed Found it. My mail filter caught it because the subject line was an error report. It was on Apr 26 and because you sent from your ameritech account which was not subscribed. I've had 2 inquiries from you since then (May 23/Jul 2). I don't ignore anyone inquiring about a problem. If you don't hear from me, then email me again. Darren -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
Maarten Slegtenhorst wrote: The RFC 2646 ( aug 1999 ) is made obsolete by RFC 3676 ( feb 2004 ) ;) http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt Excellent! I was unaware of this update. Thanks for pointing it out! Now, if you can just convince the more stubborn list participants to actually follow the documented standard, I'll consider flying to Amsterdam (or wherever you're located in the Netherlands) to personally buy you a beer! (And, maybe see some of the sights while I'm there.) ;-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
Amsterdam could be a problem... I understand that they have terrible traffic problems and lots of red lights, And it is almost impossible to get a coffee in a coffee house. And if you go to the museum there is this guy who puts the ear where the nose should be Ed Rohr Freightliner LLC Portland OR -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax Maarten Slegtenhorst wrote: The RFC 2646 ( aug 1999 ) is made obsolete by RFC 3676 ( feb 2004 ) ;) http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt Excellent! I was unaware of this update. Thanks for pointing it out! Now, if you can just convince the more stubborn list participants to actually follow the documented standard, I'll consider flying to Amsterdam (or wherever you're located in the Netherlands) to personally buy you a beer! (And, maybe see some of the sights while I'm there.) ;-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
Maarten Slegtenhorst wrote: The RFC 2646 ( aug 1999 ) is made obsolete by RFC 3676 ( feb 2004 ) ;) http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt Is there any chance of getting this in clear English? Easy to follow examples, etc? Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote: Maarten Slegtenhorst wrote: The RFC 2646 ( aug 1999 ) is made obsolete by RFC 3676 ( feb 2004 ) ;) http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt Is there any chance of getting this in clear English? Easy to follow examples, etc? Then it wouldn't be an RFC ;-) -- Bill Dodge email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: (703)627-2455 If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll If you don't know where you are, a map won't help Unknown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
In a message dated 8/1/2007 11:50:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there any chance of getting this in clear English? Easy to follow examples, etc? Is your google broken? In about 10 secs. found this... _http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3676_ (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3676) ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv : Mail-syntax
Ed Finnell said: Is your google broken? In about 10 secs. found this... _http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3676_ (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3676) Maybe I'm just getting lazy in my old age, but I saw that, and like I said is there a chance of getting it in clear English with simple examples. RFCs are NOT easy to understand and tend to be overly long. A simple Jon Veilleux said This is the way you quote someone Example would be much better. Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
Ed There is indeed an apparent inconsistency with this remove the last three lines rule that I seem to need to observe. I very often note - when performing this necessary chore - that I find myself removing three or four sets of this added information. Clearly, by whatever means these folk used to achieve their posting, they managed to bypass the rule. Perhaps - for the sake of interest - one of the folk who actually understands what goes on can explain what this is actually all about. Chris Mason - Original Message - From: Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 5:46 AM Subject: Re: Question about the listserv I never said he wasn't doing his job, just that the rules seem to be not uniformly enforced. ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
First of all I would like to add my Amen to Bob's and Sam's comments. In the past I have been involved in managing an online bulletin board and it is a lot of work with very little recognition. For any discussion group to be able to continue as long as this has it needs good management. Thanks Darren. Secondly I would like to apologize to Darren. I am fairly new to this group and posted my original question to find out how to post to the discussion group within the rules and dynamics of the group. Gee, I post a simple question and it seems as if I started WW III. Sorry Darren. I should have sent the question directly to you. Tom Kelman Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richards.Bob Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 4:09 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Question about the listserv Amen!! And please accept my personal thanks, Darren. Bob Richards Hi all, We are guests in the home of Darren, Ed, UA. House rules are always the last word. Darren does a lot of work on IBM-MAIN that I am sure is not in his job description and I don't expect he gets any slack on everything that is. I find Darren's extra work make the list more usable. It is a very noisy list already if he were not actively working to screem some of the garbage out it might become useless. Darren please know we appreciate all the work! Just ignore Ed the rest of us have been doing that for a long time...Thanks for the constant upkeep on IBM-MAIN! Thanks, Sam -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
On 30 Jul 2007 18:11:54 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main (Message-ID:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Mason) wrote: Scrolling to the end of a quoted post in order to remove the list trailer is a handy reminder also to remove any older quoted posts[1] which are not really needed and any excess address lines or - probably an unavoidable irritation since I guess they are imposed by corporate rules - those lines explaining that one should ignore e-mails which - who knows how? - have become misdirected Of course, many E-mail programs would cut that off automatically if people would just use the defined standard sig separator: A line of dash dash space, as I use below. (No, I can't name the RFC that defines it, but I have seen it and it really is a defined standard.) -- I cannot receive mail at the address this was sent from. To reply directly, send to ar23hur at intergate dot com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 07:51 -0500, Kelman, Tom wrote: Gee, I post a simple question and it seems as if I started WW III. Don't be so presumptuous ... This list must be on (at least) WW XXXIX Welcome to the vortex. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
Arthur T. wrote: Of course, many E-mail programs would cut that off automatically if people would just use the defined standard sig separator: A line of dash dash space, as I use below. (No, I can't name the RFC that defines it, but I have seen it and it really is a defined standard.) In addition, all list participants should quote prior posts according to RFC 2646 (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2646.txt) Those who steadfastly refuse to do so infuse the list with improper attributions, improper nesting, and other strange formatting, all of which result in increased confusion and misunderstandings. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
snip I'm in ATL right now. But when I return to Tuscaloosa, I will take out my software and just let the subscribers do as they please. Darren ---unsnip Darren, please don't do that. I, for one, appreciate the filters. Even if they occaissionally cause me inconvenience, by making me trim something down to a more reasonable size. Rick Why didn't Noah swat those two mosquitos? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Question about the listserv
I have a question on the proper use of the IBMMain listserv. At times when I reply my reply is rejected because it contains an excessive amount of quoted material from previous posts. I don't have this problem with other listservs. What is the proper way to reply to a post on IBMMain? Tom Kelman Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
Tom, You might find this informative: http://www.planetmvs.com/ibm-main/faqp.html#rpost Regards, Greg Shirey Ben E. Keith Company -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelman, Tom Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:35 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Question about the listserv I have a question on the proper use of the IBMMain listserv. At times when I reply my reply is rejected because it contains an excessive amount of quoted material from previous posts. I don't have this problem with other listservs. What is the proper way to reply to a post on IBMMain? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
Thanks Greg. So it basically as I figured. Everyone edits that reply to include just what is needed from previous posts. Ok, I can handle that. Tom Kelman Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Shirey Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Question about the listserv Tom, You might find this informative: http://www.planetmvs.com/ibm-main/faqp.html#rpost Regards, Greg Shirey Ben E. Keith Company -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelman, Tom Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:35 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Question about the listserv I have a question on the proper use of the IBMMain listserv. At times when I reply my reply is rejected because it contains an excessive amount of quoted material from previous posts. I don't have this problem with other listservs. What is the proper way to reply to a post on IBMMain? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
Tom In the early days of my using the list I quickly encountered the problem of the rejection of a post so carefully and painstakingly constructed. I was informed by some kind person - trying to give credit on the basis of feeble memory it may have been John Giltner - that I needed to discard the three lines starting For IBM-MAIN ... which the system slaps onto the bottom of each distributed post. As long as I do this, only some excessively verbose posts of mine - caused possibly by excessive quoting of some, one hopes, relevant technical material I happened to have created over the years and had the wit to retain - fall foul of the IBM-MAIN system - in transit that is! It's possible this point is covered in the FAQ to which you were referred but, taking a quick, glance I didn't spot it. Chris Mason - Original Message - From: Kelman, Tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 5:59 PM Subject: Re: Question about the listserv Thanks Greg. So it basically as I figured. Everyone edits that reply to include just what is needed from previous posts. Ok, I can handle that. Tom Kelman Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Shirey Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Question about the listserv Tom, You might find this informative: http://www.planetmvs.com/ibm-main/faqp.html#rpost Regards, Greg Shirey Ben E. Keith Company -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelman, Tom Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:35 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Question about the listserv I have a question on the proper use of the IBMMain listserv. At times when I reply my reply is rejected because it contains an excessive amount of quoted material from previous posts. I don't have this problem with other listservs. What is the proper way to reply to a post on IBMMain? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
In a message dated 7/30/2007 11:41:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: possibly by excessive quoting of some, one hopes, relevant technical material I happened to have created over the years and had the wit to retain - fall foul of the IBM-MAIN system - in transit that is! Definitely a Darren question. As LSOFT evolves, or fails to as the case may be, exits exist to control quoting, Attachments, length, Out of Office, SPAMalot and other forms of LIST misuse/abuse. These are adjusted/reevaluated as resources permit. ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
On Jul 30, 2007, at 11:40 AM, Chris Mason wrote: Tom In the early days of my using the list I quickly encountered the problem of the rejection of a post so carefully and painstakingly constructed. I was informed by some kind person - trying to give credit on the basis of feeble memory it may have been John Giltner - that I needed to discard the three lines starting For IBM- MAIN ... which the system slaps onto the bottom of each distributed post. As long as I do this, only some excessively verbose posts of mine - caused possibly by excessive quoting of some, one hopes, relevant technical material I happened to have created over the years and had the wit to retain - fall foul of the IBM-MAIN system - in transit that is! It's possible this point is covered in the FAQ to which you were referred but, taking a quick, glance I didn't spot it. Chris Mason SNIP--- Chris, I find that a lot, some rules that are semi undocumented . IBM seems to be bullied around on here for not documenting items, the list owner should, IMO, document such things. In fact I have given up trying to find such rules as they seem to be applied at times rather non-uniformly. Darren, IMO has gotten better over the years in enforcing some rules other times it seeming is dependent on who bends the rules. I will leave it at that as I am sure there will be a barrage of comments. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, Ed Gould wrote: Chris, I find that a lot, some rules that are semi undocumented . IBM seems to be bullied around on here for not documenting items, the list owner should, IMO, document such things. In fact I have given up trying to find such rules as they seem to be applied at times rather non-uniformly. Darren, IMO has gotten better over the years in enforcing some rules other times it seeming is dependent on who bends the rules. I will leave it at that as I am sure there will be a barrage of comments. Ed Oh give me a freaking break! Yeah, like I sit here and enforce the rules on Joe and not Bob, Harry, or Bill. That's just ludicrous, stupid, and insulting. Whatever rules (documented or not) are all automated. If my software sees certain phrases in the subject, that post is rejected. If it sees x number of footers, then I assume someone is quoting a quoted, quoted, quoted post, and it is rejected. If it sees excessive lines of signatures and footers, rejected. If it sees a post being resent by a braindead mailer, rejected. Some of these rules are not documented for a reason. The list does not need someone circumventing my software so they can post a me, too message and include 2000 lines of a quoted post. Ed, the last time you had an issue, I took to the time to research the problem and get back to you. You sent an email to the list with the following subject line: OT - Why can't we get these types of Out of Office messages? First, it was off-topic. Second, my software saw the phrase Out of Office in the subject line, took it to be an OOO message and rejected it. If there was another time where I had personally applied a rule based on who it was, please let me know and I will research that one too. I'm in ATL right now. But when I return to Tuscaloosa, I will take out my software and just let the subscribers do as they please. Darren -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
From: Darren Evans-Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] Some of these rules are not documented for a reason. The list does not need someone circumventing my software so they can post a me, too message and include 2000 lines of a quoted post. This seems like a proper application of OCO to me... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
I'm in ATL right now. But when I return to Tuscaloosa, I will take out my software and just let the subscribers do as they please. Darren Wouldn't it be better for EVERYONE on the list, if you would add Gould to your scan software and reject everything. I know my Trash box wouldn't be soo full. Tom Savor Fidelity National Information Services 11720 Amber Park Drive Suite 500 Alpharetta, GA 30004 Phone: 678-867-8431 cell: 404-660-6898 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message contains information from Certegy, Inc which may be confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify by e:mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] == -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
On Jul 30, 2007, at 3:18 PM, Darren Evans-Young wrote: Oh give me a freaking break! Yeah, like I sit here and enforce the rules on Joe and not Bob, Harry, or Bill. That's just ludicrous, stupid, and insulting. Whatever rules (documented or not) are all automated. If my software sees certain phrases in the subject, that post is rejected. If it sees x number of footers, then I assume someone is quoting a quoted, quoted, quoted post, and it is rejected. If it sees excessive lines of signatures and footers, rejected. If it sees a post being resent by a braindead mailer, rejected. Some of these rules are not documented for a reason. The list does not need someone circumventing my software so they can post a me, too message and include 2000 lines of a quoted post. Ed, the last time you had an issue, I took to the time to research the problem and get back to you. You sent an email to the list with the following subject line: Correction: I sent you a rejected item saying I was not a member and asked why. I never heard back. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
Darren, snip But when I return to Tuscaloosa, I will take out my software and just let the subscribers do as they please. /snip Please don't. I have had an occasional post rejected due to forgetting to remove the footers and when I do, I just clean up the message and resend it. I probably speak for 99% of the people on the list when I say that I appreciate the efforts you do to keep the garbage off the list. Rex -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
Hi all, We are guests in the home of Darren, Ed, UA. House rules are always the last word. Darren does a lot of work on IBM-MAIN that I am sure is not in his job description and I don't expect he gets any slack on everything that is. I find Darren's extra work make the list more usable. It is a very noisy list already if he were not actively working to screem some of the garbage out it might become useless. Darren please know we appreciate all the work! Just ignore Ed the rest of us have been doing that for a long time...Thanks for the constant upkeep on IBM-MAIN! Thanks, Sam -Original Message- snip But when I return to Tuscaloosa, I will take out my software and just let the subscribers do as they please. /snip I find that a lot, some rules that are semi undocumented . IBM seems to be bullied around on here for not documenting items, the list owner should, IMO, document such things. In fact I have given up trying to find such rules as they seem to be applied at times rather non-uniformly. Darren, IMO has gotten better over the years in enforcing some rules other times it seeming is dependent on who bends the rules. I will leave it at that as I am sure there will be a barrage of comments. Ed This email/fax message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this email/fax is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all paper and electronic copies of the original message. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
Wouldn't it be better for EVERYONE on the list, if you would add Gould to your scan software and reject everything. There are three senders that I never see anymore. One talks about all the conspiracies. One is very bitter and pedantically corrects everybody. And, the third quotes a web-site wherein they did everything on the mainframes first. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, Ed Gould wrote: Correction: I sent you a rejected item saying I was not a member and asked why. I never heard back. I have no record of an email from you about being rejected...I save everything. The last personal email from you was about the Out of Office issue. That was on July 2nd. On July 8th, you were rejected because your email came from your old ameritech email address. But I never heard from you personally. Darren -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
Amen!! And please accept my personal thanks, Darren. Bob Richards -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Knutson, Sam Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 4:50 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Question about the listserv Hi all, We are guests in the home of Darren, Ed, UA. House rules are always the last word. Darren does a lot of work on IBM-MAIN that I am sure is not in his job description and I don't expect he gets any slack on everything that is. I find Darren's extra work make the list more usable. It is a very noisy list already if he were not actively working to screem some of the garbage out it might become useless. Darren please know we appreciate all the work! Just ignore Ed the rest of us have been doing that for a long time...Thanks for the constant upkeep on IBM-MAIN! Thanks, Sam -Original Message- snip But when I return to Tuscaloosa, I will take out my software and just let the subscribers do as they please. /snip LEGAL DISCLAIMER The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. SunTrust and Seeing beyond money are federally registered service marks of SunTrust Banks, Inc. [ST:XCL] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:49:53 -0400, Knutson, Sam wrote: Just ignore Ed the rest of us have been doing that for a long time... That's pretty harsh. And untrue. Many of us have learned from Ed's recollections and his contributions to historic threads have been useful. One of his contributions was just recently brought up again in regards to SHARE in looking for snubbing targets and the fine art of snubbery. I always thought I would be happy just finishing my life knowing I made a contribution. Just think if I were able to go down in history as inventing an activity that carries on for generations !!! Think about it. When was that first mention of snubbery ??? I could look it up in the archives, but I'm on a roll and don't want to lose my train of thought. This could be the start of a new genre of posts. The next time IBM Link quits working or sun spots disrupt your radio station signal, send a post with the subject Darren's Picking On Me Again and we'll have some fun. You just never know when you can make history. Let's try to keep it civil and have as much fun as possible. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
- Original Message - From: Chris Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:40 AM Subject: Re: Question about the listserv I was informed by some kind person - trying to give credit on the basis of feeble memory it may have been John Giltner - that I needed to discard the three lines starting For IBM-MAIN ... which the system slaps onto the bottom of each distributed post. I have found this to be true also, through trial and error. Regards, Dean -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
In a message dated 7/30/2007 4:09:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Amen!! And please accept my personal thanks, Darren. As we gray, we'll be looking for a new list owner eventually. If you've never tried it, it's sincerely aggravating. Having to put up with the whining and moaning 'cause it's not the way they do it over on list or don't do this or that. IBM-Main had been here since 6 June 1986 and has struggled thru numerous OS's and Lsoft upgrades. To my knowledge there's never been a pointer at an individual. It's blanket rules, subject to change as the software sea ebbs and flows. Decisions as to what to keep and how to keep are at Darren's discretion. In the big picture it's grown into a fairly respectable place to get or report Mainframe related topics affecting business, individuals and .EDUs. The mix of developers internal and external make it fairly unique place to plant and sow ideas and knowledge. I've sure learned a lot and bit my tongue 'cause somebody had an idea I'd though of but never got around to. Long may she wave.. ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
100 % agree Roland -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Knutson, Sam Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:50 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Question about the listserv -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: question about the listserv
There is an Italian word, 'dietrologia', that I have mentioned here before. 'Dietro' means 'behind', both literally and figuratively, in Italian; and dietrologia is the pseudo-science of what is really going on in the world, what always sinister machinations lie behind appearances. John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA _ http://newlivehotmail.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
On Jul 30, 2007, at 4:06 PM, Darren Evans-Young wrote: On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, Ed Gould wrote: Correction: I sent you a rejected item saying I was not a member and asked why. I never heard back. I have no record of an email from you about being rejected...I save everything. The last personal email from you was about the Out of Office issue. That was on July 2nd. On July 8th, you were rejected because your email came from your old ameritech email address. But I never heard from you personally. Darren: Here is the partial copy of the email I sent to you: Darren, Is there a problem? Ed The enclosed message, sent to the IBM-MAIN discussion list, has been rejected because you are not authorized to send to the list from this account. Please check your current subscription address and make sure you are sending from that exact address. If you need assistance, contact the IBM-MAIN list owner. Account: ibm-main-request Hostname: bama.ua.edu Message Rejected -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
Ed As others have mentioned, I think we should accept the decision of the umpire as final - particularly since he performs the task on the same basis that an honorary consul performs his/her duties. Scrolling to the end of a quoted post in order to remove the list trailer is a handy reminder also to remove any older quoted posts[1] which are not really needed and any excess address lines or - probably an unavoidable irritation since I guess they are imposed by corporate rules - those lines explaining that one should ignore e-mails which - who knows how? - have become misdirected[2]. All this will help to reduce the volume of text in the archives, such economy being ingrained in someone who was brought up in the meagre post-war years and who started a computer career with the low model number S/360s. Chris Mason [1] Of course this tends not to apply so much when what is quoted is at the beginning rather than at the end! [2] Ditto regarding the standard admonition. - Original Message - From: Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:56 PM Subject: Re: Question about the listserv On Jul 30, 2007, at 11:40 AM, Chris Mason wrote: Tom In the early days of my using the list I quickly encountered the problem of the rejection of a post so carefully and painstakingly constructed. I was informed by some kind person - trying to give credit on the basis of feeble memory it may have been John Giltner - that I needed to discard the three lines starting For IBM- MAIN ... which the system slaps onto the bottom of each distributed post. As long as I do this, only some excessively verbose posts of mine - caused possibly by excessive quoting of some, one hopes, relevant technical material I happened to have created over the years and had the wit to retain - fall foul of the IBM-MAIN system - in transit that is! It's possible this point is covered in the FAQ to which you were referred but, taking a quick, glance I didn't spot it. Chris Mason SNIP--- Chris, I find that a lot, some rules that are semi undocumented . IBM seems to be bullied around on here for not documenting items, the list owner should, IMO, document such things. In fact I have given up trying to find such rules as they seem to be applied at times rather non-uniformly. Darren, IMO has gotten better over the years in enforcing some rules other times it seeming is dependent on who bends the rules. I will leave it at that as I am sure there will be a barrage of comments. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Question about the listserv
On Jul 30, 2007, at 8:11 PM, Chris Mason wrote: Ed As others have mentioned, I think we should accept the decision of the umpire as final - particularly since he performs the task on the same basis that an honorary consul performs his/her duties. Scrolling to the end of a quoted post in order to remove the list trailer is a handy reminder also to remove any older quoted posts [1] which are not really needed and any excess address lines or - probably an unavoidable irritation since I guess they are imposed by corporate rules - those lines explaining that one should ignore e-mails which - who knows how? - have become misdirected[2]. All this will help to reduce the volume of text in the archives, such economy being ingrained in someone who was brought up in the meagre post-war years and who started a computer career with the low model number S/360s. Chris Mason [1] Of course this tends not to apply so much when what is quoted is at the beginning rather than at the end! [2] Ditto regarding the standard admonition. I never said he wasn't doing his job, just that the rules seem to be not uniformly enforced. Personally I like to see lists that allow for comments that are interspersed with the original authors comments. That way you don't have to guess what the person is commenting about. I for one (when it comes to technical discussions) think this is mandatory. Quite a few times I gave up watching a reasonably interesting thread because I could not always follow what the person was commenting on. Its a little different I guess when it comes to the uss** oops I almost said it. I do not want to hear the discussion on that again. There is always an exception of course, as I have seen people bring up old issues that are background to the discussion which some of the younger people don't feel is important, but to get a better understanding of the entire picture you need to know what happened previously (years or decades come into play here). I won't repeat the adage as obviously it seems to be lost on some people in this group. Just to set the record straight. Darren is doing a decent job. There are other Darrens that are not even close to doing a decent job. I even suggested to one that (I think it was the RACF admin) that she put in place some of the rules that Darren has implemented. I got back an attitude that made me wonder if she wasn't a MS$ type programmer. Darren, seems to get upset to easily, IMO. Then there are other on the list that like to stay on Darrens good side as they always attack me when I express an opinion about this list. Those are the type of people I certainly would watch by back at work. I personally know a few sysadmins that take a jab in good nature. They also know which people will pipe up in his (or her in 1 case) defense as they are the boot lickers. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
