Re: STP and Time Change
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:17:43 -0400, Lizette Koehler wrote: If so, then I think our only option would be to shutdown the LPARs at 1am (12:59) and then when it is the time, IPL so that 1am is only seen once by this application. The application itself cannot be down for 1 hour. POLITICS. Did you survive? How? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
If so, then I think our only option would be to shutdown the LPARs at 1am (12:59) and then when it is the time, IPL so that 1am is only seen once by this application. The application itself cannot be down for 1 hour. POLITICS. Did you survive? How? We shut down the LPARs for one hour. That way there was not a risk to the production applications. 2 of our LPARs we allowed the STP to adjust the time and it worked fine. And the system and Vendor applications had not problem with the STP did it. IEA392I STP TIME OFFSET CHANGES HAVE OCCURRED. So now all we have to tackle is the applications that may still be using Local Time. Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
Gil, At one place I worked we had a similar situation. The application was an online system. I was not involved with it other than we Were told that the application was written such that it would not tollerate the hour shift so every spring and fall the system would shut down for 1 hour. The systems staff had to baby sit the procedure. It was politics. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
First, I'm a little confused. You guys never changed your clock in the past? If so, than how/why would NTP make a difference? Second, if the application is intolerant to the time change, then, well, it is intolerant. It's not so much that it will see 1 am twice, but it will also see 1:01, 1:02, etc etc. I don't see any option but for the application to be down for the full hour plus one minute (depending on the granularity used by the application). If local politics state that the LPAR must also be down, well, I guess then the LPAR has be down. Silly, but politics are well known for being silly at times. Maybe other users impacted by the full outage could bring some pressure on management for some changes. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 3:18 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: STP and Time Change We just implmeneted (it is only a couple of days old) the STP on our z10s. We have an application dependent on LOCAL time. So when the clock changes on Nov 6, we think this application will see 1am twice and have problems. So, is this correct, that if we do not use an IPL the STP will adjust the mainframe at 2am to 1am? In which case my bad application will see the 1am hour again. If so, then I think our only option would be to shutdown the LPARs at 1am (12:59) and then when it is the time, IPL so that 1am is only seen once by this application. The application itself cannot be down for 1 hour. POLITICS. Anybody have any other thoughts or comments? Thanks Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:57:33 -0700, Scott Ford wrote: Yep, I know that I have never heard of STP, I dont use STP on z/OS , no real need. I have used the NTPD on various Unix platforms. STP is Server Time Protocol. It replaced the function of the 9037 Sysplex Timer, and IIRC it became available on the z9. There is a real need if you are running a parallel sysplex. STP use SNTP to synchronize to an NTP server, but AFAIK, NTP does not provide sufficient resolution to synchronize the TOD clocks in a parallel sysplex. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:17:43 -0400, Lizette Koehler wrote: We have an application dependent on LOCAL time. So when the clock changes on Nov 6, we think this application will see 1am twice and have problems. If the application uses local time and will have problems during the second hour between 1:00 and 2:00, you will have to shut the application down for an hour. So, is this correct, that if we do not use an IPL the STP will adjust the mainframe at 2am to 1am? In which case my bad application will see the 1am hour again. Yes, unless you schedule it to occur at another time, which might cause other problems. If so, then I think our only option would be to shutdown the LPARs at 1am (12:59) and then when it is the time, IPL so that 1am is only seen once by this application. The application itself cannot be down for 1 hour. POLITICS. If the only way you can shut down the badly behaving application is to shut down the LPARs and IPL, then I guess that is what you have to do, as silly as it sounds to me. It does not have to be shut down at 1 AM. Any time between 1 AM and 2 AM will do. You could shut down the application at 1:30 and bring it back up an hour later at 1:30. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 07:17:00 -0500, Tom Marchant wrote: On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:17:43 -0400, Lizette Koehler wrote: If so, then I think our only option would be to shutdown the LPARs at 1am (12:59) and then when it is the time, IPL so that 1am is only seen once by this application. The application itself cannot be down for 1 hour. POLITICS. If the only way you can shut down the badly behaving application is to shut down the LPARs and IPL, then I guess that is what you have to do, as silly as it sounds to me. I can imagine an operating rule that deems that application so critical that it can be shut down only when it is necessary to shut down the LPARs for service, as silly as it sounds to me. I suppose this might even be enforced by autoops. Security rule? SLA? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 8:43 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote: I can imagine an operating rule that deems that application so critical that it can be shut down only when it is necessary to shut down the LPARs for service, as silly as it sounds to me. I suppose this might even be enforced by autoops. Security rule? SLA? -- gil If an application cannot afford the 1 hour downtime a year for the Daylight Savings Time to change to Standard Time (Summer Time to Winter Time), then the application needs to be written to handle this overlap. I. E., rename VSAM ESDS log dataset and start a new dataset at the time change, etc, or run on Standard time year round, or run on GMT year round. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
On 10/31/2011 8:17 AM, Tom Marchant wrote: If the application uses local time and will have problems during the second hour between 1:00 and 2:00, you will have to shut the application down for an hour. Unless the time requests are used for interval calculations, it should be possible to install a hook into the time processing, similar to what was popular prior to the Y2K debacle, to return a fake time (at 1 a.m. daylight time the intercept would return 1 a.m., at 1:10 say 1:05, and at 2 a.m. normal time it would be synchronized again). If the application is mission critical, that might be preferable to a one hour shut down. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
Yep, I know that I have never heard of STP, I dont use STP on z/OS , no real need. I have used the NTPD on various Unix platforms. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 7:28 PM Subject: Re: STP and Time Change In 1319835343.11223.yahoomail...@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com, on 10/28/2011 at 01:55 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com said: Your talking about NTP ...the daemon on Unix that provides the correct time from Atomic clock sites ? NTP is a protocol. I believe that the daemon is ntpd. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
In 1319835343.11223.yahoomail...@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com, on 10/28/2011 at 01:55 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com said: Your talking about NTP ...the daemon on Unix that provides the correct time from Atomic clock sites ? NTP is a protocol. I believe that the daemon is ntpd. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:17:43 -0400, Lizette Koehler wrote: If so, then I think our only option would be to shutdown the LPARs at 1am (12:59) and then when it is the time, IPL so that 1am is only seen once by this application. The application itself cannot be down for 1 hour. POLITICS. I'm considerably mystified how the application expects to continue running while the LPARs are shut down. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
Lizette: Your talking about NTP ...the daemon on Unix that provides the correct time from Atomic clock sites ? If so, did you all write the app or is it some else's app? Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com From: Lizette Koehler stars...@mindspring.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 4:17 PM Subject: STP and Time Change We just implmeneted (it is only a couple of days old) the STP on our z10s. We have an application dependent on LOCAL time. So when the clock changes on Nov 6, we think this application will see 1am twice and have problems. So, is this correct, that if we do not use an IPL the STP will adjust the mainframe at 2am to 1am? In which case my bad application will see the 1am hour again. If so, then I think our only option would be to shutdown the LPARs at 1am (12:59) and then when it is the time, IPL so that 1am is only seen once by this application. The application itself cannot be down for 1 hour. POLITICS. Anybody have any other thoughts or comments? Thanks Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
Lizette, I'm curious how this was handled in the pre-STP days? Surely the same issue applied that in November the time appears to go backward for an hour and the application had to do something. Alan -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 15:18 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: STP and Time Change We just implmeneted (it is only a couple of days old) the STP on our z10s. We have an application dependent on LOCAL time. So when the clock changes on Nov 6, we think this application will see 1am twice and have problems. So, is this correct, that if we do not use an IPL the STP will adjust the mainframe at 2am to 1am? In which case my bad application will see the 1am hour again. If so, then I think our only option would be to shutdown the LPARs at 1am (12:59) and then when it is the time, IPL so that 1am is only seen once by this application. The application itself cannot be down for 1 hour. POLITICS. Anybody have any other thoughts or comments? Thanks Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
Regarding the time change behavior (automatic, immediate, scheduled, etc.) you’ll need to take a look at your equivalent of Defined CPCs System (Sysplex) Time Adjust Time Zone at the HMC. Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 1:18 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: STP and Time Change We just implmeneted (it is only a couple of days old) the STP on our z10s. We have an application dependent on LOCAL time. So when the clock changes on Nov 6, we think this application will see 1am twice and have problems. So, is this correct, that if we do not use an IPL the STP will adjust the mainframe at 2am to 1am? In which case my bad application will see the 1am hour again. If so, then I think our only option would be to shutdown the LPARs at 1am (12:59) and then when it is the time, IPL so that 1am is only seen once by this application. The application itself cannot be down for 1 hour. POLITICS. Anybody have any other thoughts or comments? Thanks Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STP and Time Change
So, is this correct, that if we do not use an IPL the STP will adjust the mainframe at 2am to 1am? In which case my bad application will see the 1am hour again. The DST change will happen at 2am if you select Automatically adjust on the Adjust Time Zone Offset panel (Timing Network - Adjust Time Zone button). You could schedule the DST change to occur at a different time by selecting Set daylight saving time and Schedule change on. The bottom section of the Adjust Time Zone Offset panel will reflect when the DST change will occur. Regards, George Kozakos z/OS Software Service, Level 2 Supervisor -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
