Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
On 11/24/2012 07:31 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: In 20121123173422.1478033...@panix2.panix.com, on 11/23/2012 at 12:34 PM, Randy Hudson i...@panix.com said: There was a 2002 Supreme Court case on that, Eldred v Ashcroft; the Court held that as long as Congress specified a specific term for copyrights, the laws were Constitutional, even if they regularly extended that term. I'm quite certain that the founding fathers would have called that judicial activism, or something less polite. Just a week ago, there was an interesting development, as the US House Republicans first published and then recalled a document urging an overhaul of US copyright law. Why did they recall it? Obviously a case where the libertarian wing of the Republican party was kneecapped by the 1%-wealth wing. If they had been able to make a strong theological argument for restricting copyright extensions and get the Republican-Taliban wing on board as well, they might have had a chance. -- Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR jcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
In 20121123173422.1478033...@panix2.panix.com, on 11/23/2012 at 12:34 PM, Randy Hudson i...@panix.com said: There was a 2002 Supreme Court case on that, Eldred v Ashcroft; the Court held that as long as Congress specified a specific term for copyrights, the laws were Constitutional, even if they regularly extended that term. I'm quite certain that the founding fathers would have called that judicial activism, or something less polite. Just a week ago, there was an interesting development, as the US House Republicans first published and then recalled a document urging an overhaul of US copyright law. Why did they recall it? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
In article of9cf2baa6.7e1a8e24-on87257aa6.00637e69-86257aa6.0064a...@us.ibm.com, Steve Thompson wrote: On 10/29/2012 10:26 AM, Steve Comstock wrote: On 10/29/2012 8:23 AM, scott wrote: Ummm. There are copyright laws, ya' know. Do they not expire after 25 years? Because of the Mickey Mouse [Disney] laws (yes, this is what they are referred to), copyright is not for a set number of years to be renewed by the owner (US IP law up to about 1964 as I recall), but runs until some number of years after the death of the original creator. This is because the owner of the Mickey Mouse copyrights (along with a few others) pushed the US Congress for a change to the copyright laws. They have been modified at least twice since 1964, if my memory serves me correctly. At one point, the extension past demise was based on whether or not the creator was well known (Ok, get a bunch of attorneys together and get them to define that term). So it was something like 10 years for a non-well known author, and 25 years for a well known author. The recent change is causing some to question if what the US Congress did is actually a violation of the US Constitution in this area, as things were intended to go into the public domain after a/an [reasonable] amount of time. That is, a copyright was not to be inperpetuity. There was a 2002 Supreme Court case on that, Eldred v Ashcroft; the Court held that as long as Congress specified a specific term for copyrights, the laws were Constitutional, even if they regularly extended that term. http://www.copyright.gov/pr/eldred.html Just a week ago, there was an interesting development, as the US House Republicans first published and then recalled a document urging an overhaul of US copyright law. A copy of that paper is available at: http://publicknowledge.org/files/withdrawn_RSC_Copyright_reform_brief.pdf -- Randy Hudson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 5:48 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost snip I am now trying to figure out how to directly download a CBTTape file to a z/OS system and process it there. Talk to your firewall crew. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT I'd rather talk to Torquemata. He was more open minded. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
From: McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 10/30/2012 09:22 AM Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I don't feel that the CBTTape is a good place for general documentation which people need to peruse at their leisure. That's why I think that a Wiki-like site to parallel the CBTTape code site would be useful. ... I searched the inet today for regular expressions tutorial and found this as a good example of how to present technical topics - http://www.regular-expressions.info/tutorial.html. While it does not appear to use wiki technology, the work it does can be done under wikis. It is the level of detail needed. And its form appears well-thought-out. - The information contained in this communication (including any attachments hereto) is confidential and is intended solely for the personal and confidential use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, dissemination, copying, or unauthorized use of this information, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. Thank you -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
In a6b9336cdb62bb46b9f8708e686a7ea0115baa1...@nrhmms8p02.uicnrh.dom, on 10/30/2012 at 08:22 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com said: What I would be trying to avoid is the necessity of a person to download the data for off-line reading. Chacun à son Goût. I prefer reading offline. I am now trying to figure out how to directly download a CBTTape file to a z/OS system and process it there. Talk to your firewall crew. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
How would this proposed data base, new list server, or whatever it may become, differ from the CBT tape? Bill Fairchild Programmer Rocket Software 408 Chamberlain Park Lane * Franklin, TN 37069-2526 * USA t: +1.617.614.4503 * e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com * w: www.rocketsoftware.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of scott Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 7:53 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost A thought - was to have Carmine join us, which would be nice, but we would expand on his good work. It too would avoid legal complications as well. On 10/29/2012 01:44 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: Yes, emails are (implied) copyrighted when you make them available for other computers to see (post on a web page or send an email, drafts or password protected files excluded), even without an explicit copyright notice. Reworking someone else's copyrighted work it becomes a jointly authored work if you include them as the author and should had their authorization (something like a wiki you acknowledge subsequent authors have the right to modify the document). You should include a reference to the original. Reworking someone else's work making it look like they were the sole author is one form of a crime (similar to libel). Copying (and or reworking) someone else's work looking like it is your sole work is another form of a crime (similar to theft). On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:14 PM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: I don't think another email forum for the z is needed. We have IBM-MAIN, IBMTCP-L, MVS-OE, CICS-L, ASSEMBLER-LIST, Linux-390 and likely even more. IANAL, but I wonder what the copyright status is of the messages which are sent on a public email forum. I just don't see how anybody could assert a copyright claim on them (thinking about Lindy's response about one person who considers his knowledge to be his property). So maintaining an independent archive is likely legal (if not, Google is in trouble). I also wonder how much editing that one could get away with. What I was thinking of was perhaps a raw archive (perhaps indexed or threaded) and, from that, make an FAQ wiki like site which took the information, organized it, but include hyperlinks back to the raw archive message(s) from which the information was cribbed. Might even have links to vendor documentation, if such is available. IBM very nicely has a good Web documentation site that I often reference in a reply so that other's can evaluate things for themselves. All that I've been able to find for CA are PDF documents, and you need to log into their support site to get access to them. So I doubt it would be legal to webify them so that you could give a hyperlink to a web page containing their information. Other vendors seem to be like CA. They don't seem to want their documentation to be easily accessed via the Web in an unfettered manner. Oh, wait, Dovetail Technologies man pages for their zero-cost software is easily gotten to via unfettered access and hyperlinks. -- John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
I don't feel that the CBTTape is a good place for general documentation which people need to peruse at their leisure. That's why I think that a Wiki-like site to parallel the CBTTape code site would be useful. Perhaps Sam would be open to a edit-restricted Wiki hosted at cbttape.org. Where people could submit articles to be included into the Wiki. And then easily read from a simple browser. What I would be trying to avoid is the necessity of a person to download the data for off-line reading. Being the weird person that I am, I have been trying to figure out some better way to distribute code than the current CBTTape packaging. To Sam's credit, I haven't really been able to. I am now trying to figure out how to directly download a CBTTape file to a z/OS system and process it there. I.e. eliminate the need to download to a desktop, unzip, then ftp to the mainframe. Why? Because (as most know) I am weird. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Fairchild Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost How would this proposed data base, new list server, or whatever it may become, differ from the CBT tape? Bill Fairchild Programmer Rocket Software 408 Chamberlain Park Lane * Franklin, TN 37069-2526 * USA t: +1.617.614.4503 * e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com * w: www.rocketsoftware.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of scott Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 7:53 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost A thought - was to have Carmine join us, which would be nice, but we would expand on his good work. It too would avoid legal complications as well. On 10/29/2012 01:44 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: Yes, emails are (implied) copyrighted when you make them available for other computers to see (post on a web page or send an email, drafts or password protected files excluded), even without an explicit copyright notice. Reworking someone else's copyrighted work it becomes a jointly authored work if you include them as the author and should had their authorization (something like a wiki you acknowledge subsequent authors have the right to modify the document). You should include a reference to the original. Reworking someone else's work making it look like they were the sole author is one form of a crime (similar to libel). Copying (and or reworking) someone else's work looking like it is your sole work is another form of a crime (similar to theft). On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:14 PM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: I don't think another email forum for the z is needed. We have IBM- MAIN, IBMTCP-L, MVS-OE, CICS-L, ASSEMBLER-LIST, Linux-390 and likely even more. IANAL, but I wonder what the copyright status is of the messages which are sent on a public email forum. I just don't see how anybody could assert a copyright claim on them (thinking about Lindy's response about one person who considers his knowledge to be his property). So maintaining an independent archive is likely legal (if not, Google is in trouble). I also wonder how much editing that one could get away with. What I was thinking of was perhaps a raw archive (perhaps indexed or threaded) and, from that, make an FAQ wiki like site which took the information, organized it, but include hyperlinks back to the raw archive message(s) from which the information was cribbed. Might even have links to vendor documentation, if such is available. IBM very nicely has a good Web documentation site that I often reference in a reply so that other's can evaluate things for themselves. All that I've been able to find for CA are PDF documents, and you need to log into their support site to get access to them. So I doubt it would be legal to webify them so that you could give a hyperlink to a web page containing their information. Other vendors seem to be like CA. They don't seem to want their documentation to be easily accessed via the Web in an unfettered manner. Oh, wait, Dovetail
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
I'm quite surprised you asked that. There is a lot of information that isn't stored in IBM manuals, at least in a form that is easy to find. Otherwise, Carmine's book could have been a list of links to the IBM docs. Or a CD ROM that with code from CBT. CBT doesn't contain code snippets that, for example, say how to convert a Rexx date to a Julian date. Another reason Carmine's book is very popular. Why does x' 0D286880' in the SWTL mean a job is exempt from timeout? That was discussed here, but I never found it documented. So what then will cause disable a timeout? There are three values any one of which can disable 522 timeouts: 1) The ASCBTOFF bit in the ASCBRCTF is set 2) The SWTL contains the magic number x'0D286880' 3) The JSTL is 86400 seconds (Equivalent to TIME=1440 on Job card) If that is documented somewhere, I never found it, either. If someone (say me for example) happened to start a thread on a mainframe group, and it was worthy, it would help me tremendously to type it into a wiki. I started a thread some years back on writing a Rexx function to run authorized code. It wasn't so simple that someone just pasted me a link to the doc and said RTFM. Now I have that information, but anyone else who wanted to do that would have to either figure it out for themselves, or get lucky and find that there was a thread about it on IBM-MAIN, then read through all the posts, some of which were just noise. I spent a lot of time going through Rexx books and came up with a crude picture like this, just for me. What if I put it into a wiki? Then someone looked at it and said, yes, but it could be could be better if... and so on. http://lilliana.eu/downloads/RexxControlBlocks.pdf IMHO, that is what sorts of information that would be helpful. If someone said there needs to be a new list server, I don't see how that could help at all. A list server simply manages mailing lists, but has little to do with the content (other than a moderator). BR; Lindy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Fairchild Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost How would this proposed data base, new list server, or whatever it may become, differ from the CBT tape? Bill Fairchild Programmer Rocket Software 408 Chamberlain Park Lane * Franklin, TN 37069-2526 * USA t: +1.617.614.4503 * e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com * w: www.rocketsoftware.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
That will be an option only if your corporate firewalls permit FTP from z/OS to the cbttape.org ftp server. Many companies have extremely strict and closed firewalls that permit access from z/OS only to known and approved sites for reasons of security and auditability. In such organizations, getting approvals for new sites can be an arduous process at best. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 08:22:22 -0500, McKown, John wrote: I am now trying to figure out how to directly download a CBTTape file to a z/OS system and process it there. I.e. eliminate the need to download to a desktop, unzip, then ftp to the mainframe. Have you tried using jar to unzip? -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
Plus, the CBT is not really searchable. It would be really nice if all the code and examples were searchable. Wading through the CBT is tedious. Rob Schramm Senior Systems Consultant Imperium Group On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com wrote: That will be an option only if your corporate firewalls permit FTP from z/OS to the cbttape.org ftp server. Many companies have extremely strict and closed firewalls that permit access from z/OS only to known and approved sites for reasons of security and auditability. In such organizations, getting approvals for new sites can be an arduous process at best. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 08:22:22 -0500, McKown, John wrote: I am now trying to figure out how to directly download a CBTTape file to a z/OS system and process it there. I.e. eliminate the need to download to a desktop, unzip, then ftp to the mainframe. Have you tried using jar to unzip? -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
Maybe Kurt would contribute his script that downloads all the z/OS manuals as a starter. Rob Schramm Senior Systems Consultant Imperium Group On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:39 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: That's the direction I was going. I was hoping to create a UNIX script which would use curl or ftp to download the file I wanted from the ftp://cbttape.org/ftp/cbt/CBT???.zip to a newly made subdirectory. Then use jar to unzip it. The problem now comes in that the result is usually an XMIT file. OK, I can cp that to a PS data set with RECFM=FB,LRECL=80 and then TSO RECEIVE it. I can likely do all of this using a UNIX REXX script with some ADDRESS TSO statements. I can even feed in the restore dsn(...) subcommand for the RECEIVE. Unfortunately, I am now a bit stuck. I always need to look at the resultant PDS to see how to actually install. Yes, this is not really a big deal. But I've gotten even lazier (seems impossible!) lately. And I've gotten used to how I do things in Linux (yum and/or git clone followed by ./configure make sudo make install), and also with z/OS SMP/E RECEIVE FROM NETWORK. I'd like something as consistent, simple, and easy with CBTTape stuff. Likely not really possible. And perhaps even foolish to desire. But, that has never stopped me from thinking about things. I think that I may ask Sam Golob about hosting a CBTTape moderated Wiki for z/OS. Might even have a page for each CBTTape contribution's read me information. I something download things just to get a better idea what they are about. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets® 9151 Boulevard 26 • N. Richland Hills • TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone • john.mck...@healthmarkets.com • www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. –The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 10:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 08:22:22 -0500, McKown, John wrote: I am now trying to figure out how to directly download a CBTTape file to a z/OS system and process it there. I.e. eliminate the need to download to a desktop, unzip, then ftp to the mainframe. Have you tried using jar to unzip? -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
I am now trying to figure out how to directly download a CBTTape file to a z/OS system and process it there. I.e. eliminate the need to download to a desktop, unzip, then ftp to the mainframe. It is available. All you need to FTP access to cbttape.org from your z/OS mainframe and either FDR or DFSMSdss. http://www.cbttape.org/dumpedformatlibrary.htm One correction the web page examples still refer to cbttape.net but this now also hosted at cbttape.org and the pages will be corrected. Try it and let me know how it works for you. ftp://ftp.cbttape.org/pub/dsnbackup/ Perhaps Sam would be open to a edit-restricted Wiki hosted at cbttape.org We could do a Wiki at cbttape.org if there is a clear vision for content and some core volunteers who work on it. Will have to talk to Sam Golob off-line and maybe you and some others that seem to have ideas about what the use case would be for a wiki.cbttape.org repository. Making the technology available is the easy part. Best Regards, Sam Knutson, GEICO System z Team Leader mailto:sknut...@geico.com (office) 301.986.3574 (cell) 301.996.1318 Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 9:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost I don't feel that the CBTTape is a good place for general documentation which people need to peruse at their leisure. That's why I think that a Wiki-like site to parallel the CBTTape code site would be useful. Perhaps Sam would be open to a edit-restricted Wiki hosted at cbttape.org. Where people could submit articles to be included into the Wiki. And then easily read from a simple browser. What I would be trying to avoid is the necessity of a person to download the data for off-line reading. Being the weird person that I am, I have been trying to figure out some better way to distribute code than the current CBTTape packaging. To Sam's credit, I haven't really been able to. I am now trying to figure out how to directly download a CBTTape file to a z/OS system and process it there. I.e. eliminate the need to download to a desktop, unzip, then ftp to the mainframe. Why? Because (as most know) I am weird. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com This email/fax message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this email/fax is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all paper and electronic copies of the original message. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
On Oct 30, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Rob Schramm wrote: Plus, the CBT is not really searchable. It would be really nice if all the code and examples were searchable. Wading through the CBT is tedious. Rob Schramm Senior Systems Consultant Imperium Group --SNIP-- I am not really sure *IF* a search could be done (and be complete). Remember there are a *LOT* of release dependent code and macros that use it. the output of a macro is (in some cases) dependent on which level of OS you are running. How could you search on something that may or may not exist depending on release levels. each time the macro is run you could conceivably get different output depending on which level of the OS you are running. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
The CBT tape is not searchable, however if you download file 1, the index for the CBT tape, you can browse the file in ISPF and find things. I used to do that a lot when I worked at PH Mining. I found a lot of great stuff. Now, I have File 1 downloaded, but we can't install stuff from the CBT tape, so I don't use it anymore. -- Eric Bielefeld Systems Programmer Rob Schramm rob.schr...@gmail.com wrote: Plus, the CBT is not really searchable. It would be really nice if all the code and examples were searchable. Wading through the CBT is tedious. Rob Schramm Senior Systems Consultant Imperium Group -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
On 10/25/2012 07:35 PM, Lindy Mayfield wrote: I fell asleep reading mine, and at the same time spilt red wine on it. But still I wouldn't give/sell it. I only paid about $50 for it from a used book place, I forget where. It was about 6 years ago. It would be totally cool if he updated it with PC routines, for example. Lindy A possibility: Have someone scan the book and place it on the web. Then ask the mainframe community to have them update the book with new information and add information. As to who can do so is selected by the population as to have the best new chapter of the book. Just a thought... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
On 10/29/2012 8:23 AM, scott wrote: On 10/25/2012 07:35 PM, Lindy Mayfield wrote: I fell asleep reading mine, and at the same time spilt red wine on it. But still I wouldn't give/sell it. I only paid about $50 for it from a used book place, I forget where. It was about 6 years ago. It would be totally cool if he updated it with PC routines, for example. Lindy A possibility: Have someone scan the book and place it on the web. Then ask the mainframe community to have them update the book with new information and add information. As to who can do so is selected by the population as to have the best new chapter of the book. Just a thought... Ummm. There are copyright laws, ya' know. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-355-2752 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
Very true. What might be nice, and was rummaging around in my head, would be a z-series oriented community web site (supported by ) which would have at least two things. The first would be a CMS (Content Management System, perhaps Drupal?) or Wiki (MediaWiki) so that people could contribute information (to which they have an appropriate copyright). But it would likely need to be managed with approved contributors and peer reviewed. The other would be a source code repository. Now, we already have this at http://cbttape.org . Perhaps Sam would not be adverse to adding a Wiki for easy access to information. It could be used by people who need information. The site might even be able to host an archive of this, and other z-oriented, email forum. Preferable with a Google-like search ability. But I'm now getting into things that take a fair amount of time and effort. And, of course, everybody would want it to be cost-free. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets® 9151 Boulevard 26 • N. Richland Hills • TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone • john.mck...@healthmarkets.com • www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. –The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 9:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost On 10/29/2012 8:23 AM, scott wrote: On 10/25/2012 07:35 PM, Lindy Mayfield wrote: I fell asleep reading mine, and at the same time spilt red wine on it. But still I wouldn't give/sell it. I only paid about $50 for it from a used book place, I forget where. It was about 6 years ago. It would be totally cool if he updated it with PC routines, for example. Lindy A possibility: Have someone scan the book and place it on the web. Then ask the mainframe community to have them update the book with new information and add information. As to who can do so is selected by the population as to have the best new chapter of the book. Just a thought... Ummm. There are copyright laws, ya' know. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-355-2752 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
On 10/29/2012 10:26 AM, Steve Comstock wrote: On 10/29/2012 8:23 AM, scott wrote: On 10/25/2012 07:35 PM, Lindy Mayfield wrote: I fell asleep reading mine, and at the same time spilt red wine on it. But still I wouldn't give/sell it. I only paid about $50 for it from a used book place, I forget where. It was about 6 years ago. It would be totally cool if he updated it with PC routines, for example. Lindy A possibility: Have someone scan the book and place it on the web. Then ask the mainframe community to have them update the book with new information and add information. As to who can do so is selected by the population as to have the best new chapter of the book. Just a thought... Ummm. There are copyright laws, ya' know. Do they not expire after 25 years? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
On 10/29/2012 11:03 AM, McKown, John wrote: Very true. What might be nice, and was rummaging around in my head, would be a z-series oriented community web site (supported by ) which would have at least two things. The first would be a CMS (Content Management System, perhaps Drupal?) or Wiki (MediaWiki) so that people could contribute information (to which they have an appropriate copyright). But it would likely need to be managed with approved contributors and peer reviewed. The other would be a source code repository. Now, we already have this at http://cbttape.org . Perhaps Sam would not be adverse to adding a Wiki for easy access to information. It could be used by people who need information. The site might even be able to host an archive of this, and other z-oriented, email forum. Preferable with a Google-like search ability. But I'm now getting into things that take a fair amount of time and effort. And, of course, everybody would want it to be cost-free. I run a web server and would be willing to do so for free. And could also do a z-orientated email forum. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
Some kinds of copyrights can be renewed by the owner(s). Bill Fairchild Programmer Rocket Software 408 Chamberlain Park Lane • Franklin, TN 37069-2526 • USA t: +1.617.614.4503 • e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com • w: www.rocketsoftware.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of scott Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost On 10/29/2012 10:26 AM, Steve Comstock wrote: On 10/29/2012 8:23 AM, scott wrote: On 10/25/2012 07:35 PM, Lindy Mayfield wrote: I fell asleep reading mine, and at the same time spilt red wine on it. But still I wouldn't give/sell it. I only paid about $50 for it from a used book place, I forget where. It was about 6 years ago. It would be totally cool if he updated it with PC routines, for example. Lindy A possibility: Have someone scan the book and place it on the web. Then ask the mainframe community to have them update the book with new information and add information. As to who can do so is selected by the population as to have the best new chapter of the book. Just a thought... Ummm. There are copyright laws, ya' know. Do they not expire after 25 years? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
A few years ago I asked a question similar to this, about having a site where people collected information in a structured way, expanding on, for example, answers to problems on this and other lists. It didn't go over well. One guy in particular, who will be dead soon, said his information isn't for free. (But he didn't mind dribbling it out in little bits to lists like this.) Oh well. Still, I'd definitely support any such effort. Regards Lindy From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bill Fairchild [bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com] Sent: 29 October 2012 18:34 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost Some kinds of copyrights can be renewed by the owner(s). Bill Fairchild Programmer Rocket Software 408 Chamberlain Park Lane • Franklin, TN 37069-2526 • USA t: +1.617.614.4503 • e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com • w: www.rocketsoftware.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of scott Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost On 10/29/2012 10:26 AM, Steve Comstock wrote: On 10/29/2012 8:23 AM, scott wrote: On 10/25/2012 07:35 PM, Lindy Mayfield wrote: I fell asleep reading mine, and at the same time spilt red wine on it. But still I wouldn't give/sell it. I only paid about $50 for it from a used book place, I forget where. It was about 6 years ago. It would be totally cool if he updated it with PC routines, for example. Lindy A possibility: Have someone scan the book and place it on the web. Then ask the mainframe community to have them update the book with new information and add information. As to who can do so is selected by the population as to have the best new chapter of the book. Just a thought... Ummm. There are copyright laws, ya' know. Do they not expire after 25 years? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
On modern books, it's minimum 75 years, and extends 50 years past the life of the author. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States Since this book is from 1991, it's well within copyright. On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Bill Fairchild bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com wrote: Some kinds of copyrights can be renewed by the owner(s). Bill Fairchild Programmer Rocket Software 408 Chamberlain Park Lane • Franklin, TN 37069-2526 • USA t: +1.617.614.4503 • e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com • w: www.rocketsoftware.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of scott Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost On 10/29/2012 10:26 AM, Steve Comstock wrote: On 10/29/2012 8:23 AM, scott wrote: On 10/25/2012 07:35 PM, Lindy Mayfield wrote: I fell asleep reading mine, and at the same time spilt red wine on it. But still I wouldn't give/sell it. I only paid about $50 for it from a used book place, I forget where. It was about 6 years ago. It would be totally cool if he updated it with PC routines, for example. Lindy A possibility: Have someone scan the book and place it on the web. Then ask the mainframe community to have them update the book with new information and add information. As to who can do so is selected by the population as to have the best new chapter of the book. Just a thought... Ummm. There are copyright laws, ya' know. Do they not expire after 25 years? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
I don't think another email forum for the z is needed. We have IBM-MAIN, IBMTCP-L, MVS-OE, CICS-L, ASSEMBLER-LIST, Linux-390 and likely even more. IANAL, but I wonder what the copyright status is of the messages which are sent on a public email forum. I just don't see how anybody could assert a copyright claim on them (thinking about Lindy's response about one person who considers his knowledge to be his property). So maintaining an independent archive is likely legal (if not, Google is in trouble). I also wonder how much editing that one could get away with. What I was thinking of was perhaps a raw archive (perhaps indexed or threaded) and, from that, make an FAQ wiki like site which took the information, organized it, but include hyperlinks back to the raw archive message(s) from which the information was cribbed. Might even have links to vendor documentation, if such is available. IBM very nicely has a good Web documentation site that I often reference in a reply so that other's can evaluate things for themselves. All that I've been able to find for CA are PDF documents, and you need to log into their support site to get access to them. So I doubt it would be legal to webify them so that you could give a hyperlink to a web page containing their information. Other vendors seem to be like CA. They don't seem to want their documentation to be easily accessed via the Web in an unfettered manner. Oh, wait, Dovetail Technologies man pages for their zero-cost software is easily gotten to via unfettered access and hyperlinks. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets® 9151 Boulevard 26 • N. Richland Hills • TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone • john.mck...@healthmarkets.com • www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. –The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of scott Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost snip I run a web server and would be willing to do so for free. And could also do a z-orientated email forum. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
On 29 October 2012 12:27, scott svet...@ameritech.net wrote: On 10/29/2012 10:26 AM, Steve Comstock wrote: Ummm. There are copyright laws, ya' know. Do they not expire after 25 years? No. For most things the clock doesn't even start ticking until the author dies. But there - I've already strayed way too far into legal issues that I am not competent to pronounce on. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
Yes, emails are (implied) copyrighted when you make them available for other computers to see (post on a web page or send an email, drafts or password protected files excluded), even without an explicit copyright notice. Reworking someone else's copyrighted work it becomes a jointly authored work if you include them as the author and should had their authorization (something like a wiki you acknowledge subsequent authors have the right to modify the document). You should include a reference to the original. Reworking someone else's work making it look like they were the sole author is one form of a crime (similar to libel). Copying (and or reworking) someone else's work looking like it is your sole work is another form of a crime (similar to theft). On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:14 PM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: I don't think another email forum for the z is needed. We have IBM-MAIN, IBMTCP-L, MVS-OE, CICS-L, ASSEMBLER-LIST, Linux-390 and likely even more. IANAL, but I wonder what the copyright status is of the messages which are sent on a public email forum. I just don't see how anybody could assert a copyright claim on them (thinking about Lindy's response about one person who considers his knowledge to be his property). So maintaining an independent archive is likely legal (if not, Google is in trouble). I also wonder how much editing that one could get away with. What I was thinking of was perhaps a raw archive (perhaps indexed or threaded) and, from that, make an FAQ wiki like site which took the information, organized it, but include hyperlinks back to the raw archive message(s) from which the information was cribbed. Might even have links to vendor documentation, if such is available. IBM very nicely has a good Web documentation site that I often reference in a reply so that other's can evaluate things for themselves. All that I've been able to find for CA are PDF documents, and you need to log into their support site to get access to them. So I doubt it would be legal to webify them so that you could give a hyperlink to a web page containing their information. Other vendors seem to be like CA. They don't seem to want their documentation to be easily accessed via the Web in an unfettered manner. Oh, wait, Dovetail Technologies man pages for their zero-cost software is easily gotten to via unfettered access and hyperlinks. -- John McKown -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
This person didn't say it was his property. He said that he wouldn't give his knowledge away for free. In other words, he would rather take it to the coffin than participate in any sort of joint effort to collect information from (my words) the old timers. I would have zero problem with taking information from lists, rewording it, and putting it in a wiki. Lindy From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: 29 October 2012 19:44 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost I just don't see how anybody could assert a copyright claim on them (thinking about Lindy's response about one person who considers his knowledge to be his property). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
On 10/29/2012 10:26 AM, Steve Comstock wrote: On 10/29/2012 8:23 AM, scott wrote: On 10/25/2012 07:35 PM, Lindy Mayfield wrote: SNIPPAGE Ummm. There are copyright laws, ya' know. Do they not expire after 25 years? SNIPPAGE Because of the Mickey Mouse [Disney] laws (yes, this is what they are referred to), copyright is not for a set number of years to be renewed by the owner (US IP law up to about 1964 as I recall), but runs until some number of years after the death of the original creator. This is because the owner of the Mickey Mouse copyrights (along with a few others) pushed the US Congress for a change to the copyright laws. They have been modified at least twice since 1964, if my memory serves me correctly. At one point, the extension past demise was based on whether or not the creator was well known (Ok, get a bunch of attorneys together and get them to define that term). So it was something like 10 years for a non-well known author, and 25 years for a well known author. The recent change is causing some to question if what the US Congress did is actually a violation of the US Constitution in this area, as things were intended to go into the public domain after a/an [reasonable] amount of time. That is, a copyright was not to be inperpetuity. Regards, Steve Thompson - Disclaimers: Opinions expressed by this poster may not reflect those of posters employer, IBM. Nothing in this post is to be taken as legal advice, but only as a common man's understanding of what the IP laws may contain at this point in time. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
Corporations never die. They get bought out or go bankrupt and assests (including book, movie, and song copyrights) are sold for a figurative song. On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Steve Thompson sthomp...@us.ibm.com wrote: deleted At one point, the extension past demise was based on whether or not the creator was well known (Ok, get a bunch of attorneys together and get them to define that term). So it was something like 10 years for a non-well known author, and 25 years for a well known author. The recent change is causing some to question if what the US Congress did is actually a violation of the US Constitution in this area, as things were intended to go into the public domain after a/an [reasonable] amount of time. That is, a copyright was not to be inperpetuity. Regards, Steve Thompson -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
In 508eae71.3020...@ameritech.net, on 10/29/2012 at 12:27 PM, scott svet...@ameritech.net said: Do they not expire after 25 years? Blame Disney. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
In 45fcfbbb8bc8eb4a9dfedc6fa2cc7fdf2dbc4...@sdkmbx03.emea.sas.com, on 10/29/2012 at 06:18 PM, Lindy Mayfield lindy.mayfi...@sas.com said: This person didn't say it was his property. He said that he wouldn't give his knowledge away for free. That's his right. You don't have an obligation to follow his example if you don't want to. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
I fell asleep reading mine, and at the same time spilt red wine on it. But still I wouldn't give/sell it. I only paid about $50 for it from a used book place, I forget where. It was about 6 years ago. It would be totally cool if he updated it with PC routines, for example. Lindy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 8:25 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost I regret I made an error when I quoted the cost of the Carmine book. So here is a quick table of costs. All numbers are in USD unless specified as CANADA) ChaptersNew Usually ships in 1 to 4 weeks 116.84 (Canada) Amazon.ca (Marketplace) Used Ready to ship 113.33 (Canada) Amazon (Marketplace)Used Ready to ship 495.00 Alibris Used Ready to ship 505.00 AbeBooksUsed Ships in 2 days 505.00 Textbooks.com (Marketplace) Used In stock and ready to ship 505.00 BN Marketplace Used Usually ships in 24 hours 505.00 ValoreBooks.com Used Usually ships in 2 days 556.80 And those of you who gave it away - be sad - be very sad. Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
I regret I made an error when I quoted the cost of the Carmine book. So here is a quick table of costs. All numbers are in USD unless specified as CANADA) ChaptersNew Usually ships in 1 to 4 weeks 116.84 (Canada) Amazon.ca (Marketplace) Used Ready to ship 113.33 (Canada) Amazon (Marketplace)Used Ready to ship 495.00 Alibris Used Ready to ship 505.00 AbeBooksUsed Ships in 2 days 505.00 Textbooks.com (Marketplace) Used In stock and ready to ship 505.00 BN Marketplace Used Usually ships in 24 hours 505.00 ValoreBooks.com Used Usually ships in 2 days 556.80 And those of you who gave it away - be sad - be very sad. Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
But if no one is buying any of these books, then there's no reason to be sad. I am beginning to sense a new market for Carmine book futures. I'll offer one for sale at $999.99. If I get a buyer, then I'll buy one for $113, or even $505 (but only after my buyer's payment is received) in order to have one to send to my buyer. Bill Fairchild Programmer Rocket Software 408 Chamberlain Park Lane • Franklin, TN 37069-2526 • USA t: +1.617.614.4503 • e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com • w: www.rocketsoftware.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:25 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost I regret I made an error when I quoted the cost of the Carmine book. So here is a quick table of costs. All numbers are in USD unless specified as CANADA) ChaptersNew Usually ships in 1 to 4 weeks 116.84 (Canada) Amazon.ca (Marketplace) Used Ready to ship 113.33 (Canada) Amazon (Marketplace)Used Ready to ship 495.00 Alibris Used Ready to ship 505.00 AbeBooksUsed Ships in 2 days 505.00 Textbooks.com (Marketplace) Used In stock and ready to ship 505.00 BN Marketplace Used Usually ships in 24 hours 505.00 ValoreBooks.com Used Usually ships in 2 days 556.80 And those of you who gave it away - be sad - be very sad. Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
For the record I'm not giving up my Yankees coffee mug. - Original Message - From: Bill Fairchild bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 1:25 PM Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost But if no one is buying any of these books, then there's no reason to be sad. I am beginning to sense a new market for Carmine book futures. I'll offer one for sale at $999.99. If I get a buyer, then I'll buy one for $113, or even $505 (but only after my buyer's payment is received) in order to have one to send to my buyer. Bill Fairchild Programmer Rocket Software 408 Chamberlain Park Lane • Franklin, TN 37069-2526 • USA t: +1.617.614.4503 • e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com • w: www.rocketsoftware.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:25 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost I regret I made an error when I quoted the cost of the Carmine book. So here is a quick table of costs. All numbers are in USD unless specified as CANADA) ChaptersNew Usually ships in 1 to 4 weeks 116.84 (Canada) Amazon.ca (Marketplace) Used Ready to ship 113.33 (Canada) Amazon (Marketplace)Used Ready to ship 495.00 Alibris Used Ready to ship 505.00 AbeBooksUsed Ships in 2 days 505.00 Textbooks.com (Marketplace) Used In stock and ready to ship 505.00 BN Marketplace Used Usually ships in 24 hours 505.00 ValoreBooks.com Used Usually ships in 2 days 556.80 And those of you who gave it away - be sad - be very sad. Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
