Fully off topic however

[Steve Beaver]

Fully off topic however this is to help the guys in the US

 

I have been beat to death will emails and calls looking for me

To do contract work.

 

I have told the Indian recruiters I no longer will accept contract

Jobs.  And I give then my permanent price.

 

I would suggest that all US based people tell all these recruiters

The same thing.  Also they ask if I have any friends that will accept

A contract job and I tell them NO.

 

They will get the point 

 

 


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Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred)]

Oops…

Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Bob 
Bridges <0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:12:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the 
Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.  
-Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58

Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
That should be 11994.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42

The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHypotheses_non_fingo=05%7C02%7Cfred.van.der.windt%40ING.COM%7Cab0be5de8e514fd3c66308dc33f359df%7C587b6ea13db94fe1a9d785d4c64ce5cc%7C0%7C0%7C638442367492217320%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=jyJaoCGWdaIPPS1n594s5UO%2BzbNFKJvY14SruOvyCZ8%3D=0<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo>>.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

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Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Michael Oujesky]

Not just the power grid, but all electronics and 
presuming the flare(s) don't match other great ones:
<https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/radiocarbon/article/viewFile/3464/pdf>LaViolette.fm 
(arizona.edu)

Michael

At 01:50 AM 2/23/2024, Mike Schwab wrote:


Yep.  Magnetic fields moving over power lines generating massive
amounts of current.
https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/44957/20230721/quebec-blackout-1989-lessons-geomagnetic-storm-shocked-entire-nation.htm

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 9:08 PM Michael 
Oujesky  wrote:

>
> And all it will take is one solar flare like 
the one in 1859 (Carrington event) to take the 
world back to pre-electricity days

>
> 
https://www.bu.edu/articles/2012/detecting-the-perfect-solar-storm/#:~:text=If%20a%20massive%20storm%20like,U.S.%20National%20Academy%20of%20Sciences.

>
> Michael
>
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024, at 8:06 PM,Seymour J Metz wrote:
> > Dedicated fax machines, combo printer/scanner/fax or wokstations with
> > fax modems?
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> > עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> > × ÖµÖ£×¦Ö·×— יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֭ר
> >
> > 
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on
> > behalf of Gibney, Dave <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 7:29 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> >
> > Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> >> Behalf Of zMan
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> >>
> >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> >>
> >> The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
> >> requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
> >> > what he said. Here’s the context.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-iUSprkRmplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZRysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abfd4xRxhiXU5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-9Q6JrVg/https%3A%2F%2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Furld

> >> >
> >> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
> >> l-krugm
> >> > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
> >> 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
> >> >
> >> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
> >> vp0KkVgyslQg
> >> >
> >> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
> >> 7Ce292b02ec
> >> >
> >> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
> >> C0%7C0%7C6
> >> >
> >> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> >> MDAiLCJQIjoi
> >> >
> >> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
> >> e42Xnjdr
> >> > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> >> > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that
> >> > the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
> >> > machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> >> > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
> >> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
> >> >
> >> > Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
>

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Mike Schwab]

Yep.  Magnetic fields moving over power lines generating massive
amounts of current.
https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/44957/20230721/quebec-blackout-1989-lessons-geomagnetic-storm-shocked-entire-nation.htm

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 9:08 PM Michael Oujesky  wrote:
>
> And all it will take is one solar flare like the one in 1859 (Carrington 
> event) to take the world back to pre-electricity days
>
> https://www.bu.edu/articles/2012/detecting-the-perfect-solar-storm/#:~:text=If%20a%20massive%20storm%20like,U.S.%20National%20Academy%20of%20Sciences.
>
> Michael
>
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024, at 8:06 PM,Seymour J Metz wrote:
> > Dedicated fax machines, combo printer/scanner/fax or wokstations with
> > fax modems?
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> > עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> > נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
> >
> > 
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on
> > behalf of Gibney, Dave <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 7:29 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> >
> > Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> >> Behalf Of zMan
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> >>
> >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> >>
> >> The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
> >> requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
> >> > what he said. Here’s the context.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-iUSprkRmplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZRysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abfd4xRxhiXU5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-9Q6JrVg/https%3A%2F%2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Furld
> >> >
> >> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
> >> l-krugm
> >> > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
> >> 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
> >> >
> >> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
> >> vp0KkVgyslQg
> >> >
> >> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
> >> 7Ce292b02ec
> >> >
> >> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
> >> C0%7C0%7C6
> >> >
> >> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> >> MDAiLCJQIjoi
> >> >
> >> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
> >> e42Xnjdr
> >> > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> >> > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that
> >> > the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
> >> > machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> >> > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
> >> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
> >> >
> >> > Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
> >> > That should be 11994.
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> >> > Behalf Of Allan Staller
> >> > Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
> >> >
> >> > The 

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Michael Oujesky]

And all it will take is one solar flare like the one in 1859 (Carrington event) 
to take the world back to pre-electricity days

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2012/detecting-the-perfect-solar-storm/#:~:text=If%20a%20massive%20storm%20like,U.S.%20National%20Academy%20of%20Sciences.

Michael

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024, at 8:06 PM,Seymour J Metz wrote:
> Dedicated fax machines, combo printer/scanner/fax or wokstations with 
> fax modems?
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on 
> behalf of Gibney, Dave <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 7:29 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
>
> Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>> Behalf Of zMan
>> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
>>
>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
>>
>> The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
>> requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
>> > what he said. Here’s the context.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-iUSprkRmplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZRysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abfd4xRxhiXU5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-9Q6JrVg/https%3A%2F%2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Furld
>> >
>> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
>> l-krugm
>> > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
>> 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
>> >
>> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
>> vp0KkVgyslQg
>> >
>> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
>> 7Ce292b02ec
>> >
>> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
>> C0%7C0%7C6
>> >
>> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
>> MDAiLCJQIjoi
>> >
>> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
>> e42Xnjdr
>> > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
>> > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that
>> > the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
>> > machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
>> >
>> > ---
>> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>> > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
>> >
>> > Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
>> > That should be 11994.
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>> > Behalf Of Allan Staller
>> > Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
>> >
>> > The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>> > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
>> >
>> > A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will
>> > have forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year
>> > predictions for, e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?
>> >
>> > I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non
>> > fingo <
>> >
>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDm

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Gibney, Dave]

To be honest, I have no idea. I would guess the multi-function options

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 6:07 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> 
> Dedicated fax machines, combo printer/scanner/fax or wokstations with fax
> modems?
> 
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furld
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F*smetz3__%3
> Bfg!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!vtEIyO7q3_40wDYVUmS8Oxv-
> 9SE_HXWFBQARve4T98ajMlwwnavpy1WKQnIPd9DNKjONNwxpVjHLnA%24
> =05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%7C32f0263c4f6a4b23380e08dc
> 34141fad%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7C0%7C0%7C63844
> 2508281868496%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C
> ata=jFC%2FHrP8BsuorMyG5WqE5QoCzORFa2Fg5reP%2FibT8UQ%3D
> ed=0
> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
> 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on
> behalf of Gibney, Dave <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-
> requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 7:29 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> 
> Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of zMan
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> >
> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> >
> > The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
> > requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
> > > what he said. Here’s the context.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furld
> > efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-
> web.cisco.com%2F1CieSMPaZwvAT
> > Ho3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-
> tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxon
> > dPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-
> iUSprkR
> > mplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-
> lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZ
> >
> Rysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abf
> d4xRxhiX
> > U5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-
> ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy
> > 8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-
> 9Q6JrVg%2Fht
> >
> tps*3A*2F*2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*2
> 5
> >
> 3A*252F*252Furld__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUl!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!vtEIyO7q3_40
> wDYVUm
> > S8Oxv-
> 9SE_HXWFBQARve4T98ajMlwwnavpy1WKQnIPd9DNKjONNwyRlsIiJg%24
> ata=0
> >
> 5%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%7C32f0263c4f6a4b23380e08dc34141fa
> d%7Cb52be47
> >
> 1f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7C0%7C0%7C638442508281876390%7CU
> nknown%7CTWF
> >
> pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX
> VCI6M
> >
> n0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=bPcy1uJlMKIOoeS46gqFzOhpDwlK8Ha8zg
> ghsk%2BRMks
> > %3D=0
> > >
> >
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
> > l-krugm
> > > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
> > 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
> > >
> >
> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
> > vp0KkVgyslQg
> > >
> >
> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
> > 7Ce292b02ec
> > >
> >
> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
> > C0%7C0%7C6
> > >
> >
> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> > MDAiLCJQIjoi
> > >
> >
> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
> > e42Xnjdr
> > > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> > > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear
> > > that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than
> > > the fax machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in
>

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Seymour J Metz]

Dedicated fax machines, combo printer/scanner/fax or wokstations with fax 
modems?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Gibney, Dave <03b5261cfd78-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 7:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of zMan
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
>
> The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
>
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
> requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
> > what he said. Here’s the context.
> >
> >
> >
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-iUSprkRmplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZRysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abfd4xRxhiXU5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-9Q6JrVg/https%3A%2F%2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Furld
> >
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
> l-krugm
> > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
> 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
> >
> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
> vp0KkVgyslQg
> >
> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
> 7Ce292b02ec
> >
> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
> C0%7C0%7C6
> >
> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> MDAiLCJQIjoi
> >
> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
> e42Xnjdr
> > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that
> > the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
> > machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
> >
> > ---
> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
> >
> > Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
> > That should be 11994.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Allan Staller
> > Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
> >
> > The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
> >
> > A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will
> > have forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year
> > predictions for, e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?
> >
> > I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non
> > fingo <
> >
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CieSMPaZwvATHo3u6SeKwdTSLYWjrgzgHMj5G0cgeCU6OwRX-tYZ0dZywGFgIYxZ06npUpn5PdldAbPxondPyUXiudafJL2BDmpgDe6rIweSl28zsyyk2d3NIj-xPIx6hsP1J7Opb2qapLGK-iUSprkRmplH8sgKkH2Fa_GDPo3s5-6nMxBfty_xI1VeBOk3eZA2jCA0T-lEW75Uwsp9gT2BVKTGHZRysd2x6abN4KAFeZTovDz9zsB5F5HQrDt9snuZo7CYjPBb6oBbE3fHDt6B9Abfd4xRxhiXU5O_bnWnTmtJPekKqEj5EtxQBmN-0SFI7HoHDQAVGFH-ZEfBvmvGMg6Y97kUewFyxBcTIy8QDI833P3l0MKy3q3xE1_tkY9JoCGfDvLIb0ULhWAPS-s9z2pDcGcO2WS-9Q6JrVg/https%3A%2F%2Fnam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Furld
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHypo
> theses_non_fingo__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUVU8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ
> 5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmXvp0KkVgyslQgBkUcCIgOi
> etLWEjpRKs5ifv%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%7Ce292b02
> ecab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5
> %7C0%7C0%7C638442436003413344

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Gibney, Dave]

Fax machines are still heavily used un medical and legal areas

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of zMan
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 4:06 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> 
> The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.
> 
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle < 0525eaef6620-dmarc-
> requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly
> > what he said. Here’s the context.
> >
> >
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furld
> >
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fpau
> l-krugm
> > an-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-
> 12%3Famp__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUV
> >
> U8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmX
> vp0KkVgyslQg
> >
> BkUcCIgOietLWEjpfoWVvXo%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%
> 7Ce292b02ec
> >
> ab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5%7
> C0%7C0%7C6
> >
> 38442436003405898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> MDAiLCJQIjoi
> >
> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=rkxa
> e42Xnjdr
> > ZsbYsztE%2FeQftM45pYXwoSisSXM3MvA%3D=0
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> > 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that
> > the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
> > machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
> >
> > ---
> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
> >
> > Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
> > That should be 11994.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Allan Staller
> > Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
> >
> > The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
> >
> > A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will
> > have forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year
> > predictions for, e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?
> >
> > I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non
> > fingo <
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furld
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHypo
> theses_non_fingo__%3B!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!pUVU8USJPSqXuREx80y0bQ
> 5MR7v2G271msUDJVyimwcA0x0oiPePyvVMbEFmXvp0KkVgyslQgBkUcCIgOi
> etLWEjpRKs5ifv%24=05%7C02%7CGIBNEY%40WSU.EDU%7Ce292b02
> ecab547644c8d08dc34034e72%7Cb52be471f7f147b4a8790c799bb53db5
> %7C0%7C0%7C638442436003413344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8ey
> JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D
> %7C0%7C%7C%7C=I69SwWniPcqnRRWi98MnELuNXk1a6kYh%2B1kY
> H9wRX2g%3D=0 >.
> >
> > On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor
> > intensive and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better
> > suited for the job.
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> 
> 
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[zMan]

The FAX machine's impact wasn't exactly tiny. Short-lived, yes.

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:04 PM Dave Beagle <
0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly what
> he said. Here’s the context.
>
>
> https://www.businessinsider.com/paul-krugman-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-12?amp
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges <
> 0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the
> Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
> machine's.  -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */
>
> ---
> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58
>
> Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left.
> That should be 11994.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Allan Staller
> Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
>
> The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Seymour J Metz
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
>
> A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have
> forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for,
> e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?
>
> I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo>.
>
> On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor
> intensive and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better
> suited for the job.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Dave Beagle]

Picking on Krugman is typical of the right. But, that’s not exactly what he 
said. Here’s the context.

https://www.businessinsider.com/paul-krugman-responds-to-internet-quote-2013-12?amp





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 5:12 PM, Bob Bridges 
<0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the 
Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.  
-Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58

Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left. 
That should be 11994.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42

The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
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Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[zMan]

> Current AI does not "understand" the information it holds, nor does
it have a concept of "truth".

So it's like a CEO. Good to know.

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 6:13 PM Joel C. Ewing  wrote:

> One needs to understand that today's Large Language Model AI tools like
> ChatGPT, etc. are essentially driven by huge statistical databases
> created from processing huge volumes of digital text using some
> knowledge of sentence structure and words. Those tools can accept
> English-language queries and use words and phrases in the query to
> generate related-information responses with complete sentences and
> paragraphs that have a high probability of of being relevant to the query.
>
> Current AI does not "understand" the information it holds, nor does it
> have a concept of "truth".   Even if you program the AI using books on
> COBOL grammar and semantics it won't "understand" COBOL.   Even if you
> feed it millions of lines of COBOL code it won't be able to deduce the
> underlying purpose of the code.  If there is an accurate description of
> what the code does accompanying the code, it can associate that
> description with a code segment; but if the description is inaccurate,
> AI may also associate the code with that bad description.   Inevitably
> some of the code you might use to program the AI tool will contain bugs,
> and AI will be equally content to supply buggy code examples.
>
> If your object is to generate optimized Assembler code which accurately
> replicates the behavior of a COBOL program, the best tool for that for
> the foreseeable future is an optimizing COBOL compiler for your target
> machine.  Such compilers are already doing flow analysis just to
> optimize loops and register usage, but I wouldn't call that "AI" in the
> usual sense of that term. Perhaps a well-programmed AI tool would
> suggest using a COBOL compiler if asked to convert a COBOL program to
> assembler -- in fact that is basically the response given by the MS
> Copilot tool when asked to perform that task for z-architecture;
> although you can see hints of its lack of understanding in that in
> includes in its response "IBM provides cataloged procedures (such
> as*IEBCOMPR*and*IEBCOPY*) to simplify JCL coding for COBOL compilation",
> where it includes gratuitous PROC examples that have nothing to do with
> COBOL rather than giving the names of actual COBOL compiler PROCs.
>
>  Joel C. Ewing
>
> On 2/22/24 11:09, Robley Lutz wrote:
> > I guess my question is, do we expect AI to look at COBOL code, and not
> > simply compile it, but analyze the flow, and output optimized Assembler
> > code?  Will AI become the highly skilled Assembler programmer that I
> never
> > became?
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:54 AM Tom Harper <
> > 05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Dave,
> >>
> >> I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at
> >> CalTrans. Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES -
> >> EXPENSES and we would all be out of a job.
> >>
> >> ...
>
> --
> Joel C. Ewing
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Joel C. Ewing]

One needs to understand that today's Large Language Model AI tools like 
ChatGPT, etc. are essentially driven by huge statistical databases 
created from processing huge volumes of digital text using some 
knowledge of sentence structure and words. Those tools can accept 
English-language queries and use words and phrases in the query to 
generate related-information responses with complete sentences and 
paragraphs that have a high probability of of being relevant to the query.


Current AI does not "understand" the information it holds, nor does it 
have a concept of "truth".   Even if you program the AI using books on 
COBOL grammar and semantics it won't "understand" COBOL.   Even if you 
feed it millions of lines of COBOL code it won't be able to deduce the 
underlying purpose of the code.  If there is an accurate description of 
what the code does accompanying the code, it can associate that 
description with a code segment; but if the description is inaccurate, 
AI may also associate the code with that bad description.   Inevitably  
some of the code you might use to program the AI tool will contain bugs, 
and AI will be equally content to supply buggy code examples.


If your object is to generate optimized Assembler code which accurately 
replicates the behavior of a COBOL program, the best tool for that for 
the foreseeable future is an optimizing COBOL compiler for your target 
machine.  Such compilers are already doing flow analysis just to 
optimize loops and register usage, but I wouldn't call that "AI" in the 
usual sense of that term. Perhaps a well-programmed AI tool would 
suggest using a COBOL compiler if asked to convert a COBOL program to 
assembler -- in fact that is basically the response given by the MS 
Copilot tool when asked to perform that task for z-architecture; 
although you can see hints of its lack of understanding in that in 
includes in its response "IBM provides cataloged procedures (such 
as*IEBCOMPR*and*IEBCOPY*) to simplify JCL coding for COBOL compilation", 
where it includes gratuitous PROC examples that have nothing to do with 
COBOL rather than giving the names of actual COBOL compiler PROCs.


    Joel C. Ewing

On 2/22/24 11:09, Robley Lutz wrote:

I guess my question is, do we expect AI to look at COBOL code, and not
simply compile it, but analyze the flow, and output optimized Assembler
code?  Will AI become the highly skilled Assembler programmer that I never
became?

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:54 AM Tom Harper <
05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at
CalTrans. Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES -
EXPENSES and we would all be out of a job.

...


--
Joel C. Ewing

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Bob Bridges]

Speaking of old predictions:  /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the 
Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.  
-Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 16:58

Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left. 
That should be 11994.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42

The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw]

Sorry, the date has been truncated on the left. 
That should be 11994.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: 22 February 2024 19:42
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Classification: Confidential

The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo>.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Harper <05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job.

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think.

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted.

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance.

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance.

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future.

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper

Phoenix Software International

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> AI?
>
> More AS!
>
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them 
> for jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
>
> <
> https://www/.
> linkedin.com%2Fadvice%2F0%2Fhow-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-ski
> lls-system-development-x9cve=05%7C02%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C
> cc68e10c66f6488fb04408dc33c94dc1%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C
> 0%7C0%7C638442186902794249%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
> iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=3tT
> lvB8EH2KJyndo7QBf0U7KKjNBcexrXzghUxXy%2F5Q%3D=0
>>
>
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle < 
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
&g

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Allan Staller]

Classification: Confidential

The last mainframe will be turned off in 1994 - Gartner Group

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo>.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Harper <05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job.

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think.

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted.

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance.

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance.

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future.

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper

Phoenix Software International

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> AI?
>
> More AS!
>
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them
> for jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
>
> <
> https://www/.
> linkedin.com%2Fadvice%2F0%2Fhow-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-ski
> lls-system-development-x9cve=05%7C02%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C
> cc68e10c66f6488fb04408dc33c94dc1%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C
> 0%7C0%7C638442186902794249%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
> iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=3tT
> lvB8EH2KJyndo7QBf0U7KKjNBcexrXzghUxXy%2F5Q%3D=0
>>
>
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
>> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
>> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22
>> billion in the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Steve Thompson]

Right now there is a move within the US Fed Gov't to convert ALC 
to Java.


They need ALC programmers that know the old style programming 
because some of this code predates MVS/XA.


Just say'n'.

Steve Thompson

On 2/22/2024 12:29 PM, Dave Beagle wrote:

I don’t deny there will be assembler code running. It’s just that you won’t 
need assembler programmers. It’s been shrinking for decades as a needed 
skillset. Explains why hardly anyone teaches it and why assembler coding jobs 
are few. Also explains why the Assembler listserv is almost dead. Ray Mullins, 
many of whom would consider an expert agrees with me. Called it a niche skill.

To deny the fact that companies are spending large amounts of time and money on 
AI is certainly a fools proposition. Literally, every IT company on the planet 
is falling over themselves to get a piece of that pie. Those who aren’t are 
going to have a hard time surviving. Even non IT companies can see a huge 
benefit and payoff from it. This will be the most important IT venture to date.


People who want it to solve complex problems while AI is in its infancy, aren’t 
thinking straight. AI is going to change everything in the next decade or so. 
Anyone who is wondering what skills will be highly paid in the next 20 years, 
I’ll guarantee AI will be near the top.



Plus, I’ve coded in numerous languages since 1980. Done just about everything 
in IT. Was right about the mainframe being around for decades to come circa 
1995 as many here kept saying the mainframe was dead.

Dave


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 11:54 AM, Tom Harper 
<05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job.

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think.

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted.

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance.

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance.

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future.

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper

Phoenix Software International

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
<0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
<05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

AI?

More AS!

This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:

<
https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will 

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Dave Beagle]

I don’t deny there will be assembler code running. It’s just that you won’t 
need assembler programmers. It’s been shrinking for decades as a needed 
skillset. Explains why hardly anyone teaches it and why assembler coding jobs 
are few. Also explains why the Assembler listserv is almost dead. Ray Mullins, 
many of whom would consider an expert agrees with me. Called it a niche skill.

To deny the fact that companies are spending large amounts of time and money on 
AI is certainly a fools proposition. Literally, every IT company on the planet 
is falling over themselves to get a piece of that pie. Those who aren’t are 
going to have a hard time surviving. Even non IT companies can see a huge 
benefit and payoff from it. This will be the most important IT venture to date.


People who want it to solve complex problems while AI is in its infancy, aren’t 
thinking straight. AI is going to change everything in the next decade or so. 
Anyone who is wondering what skills will be highly paid in the next 20 years, 
I’ll guarantee AI will be near the top.



Plus, I’ve coded in numerous languages since 1980. Done just about everything 
in IT. Was right about the mainframe being around for decades to come circa 
1995 as many here kept saying the mainframe was dead.

Dave


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 11:54 AM, Tom Harper 
<05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job. 

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history. 

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think. 

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.  

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted. 

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance. 

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance. 

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function. 

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language. 

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960. 

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future. 

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper 

Phoenix Software International 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> AI?
> 
> More AS!
> 
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
> jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
> 
> <
> https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>> 
> 
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
>> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
>> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
>> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
>> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
>> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
>> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
>> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
>> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
>> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
>> 

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Seymour J Metz]

"Ownership considered harmful:

Yes, you should accept responsibility for defects (not just bugs) in your work, 
but you should not consider it to be your turf and be hostile to those who 
improve it. If someone finds a bug in my code, i am and should be grateful. I 
might use a different fix from what they provided, but then again, I might not."

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Robert Prins <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 12:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

AI?

More AS!

This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:

<
https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in the world by
> market cap. (Behind Microsoft & Apple) To think AI is just a passing fad is
> foolish.
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


--
Robert AH Prins
robert(a)prino(d)org
The hitchhiking grandfather 
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/14iGWxJaqsbYiPwXLtM8f1bA0qLxRkkn6wCZZpAejX_EW8Bl0rXwy6HIuNWW1AKWLzjBhJ0rQ6MkfqL3v94WCi7ocDruMf1sWekXEKZdjX4dxfCCCrS9o4i8cCY6WSbRkzSmSVXi7ms3W0p15tDJEI1YXqLjZ2qipin2muU5SQ1-2Es5NDB9G8qwaK2zc0nt9M7sx41DrmiZYI3ntekJ5EOIouAvq5CfG1nlCbgPognoafD3FAIxIiE6L8WDEMaU3YoftP9fo5rOTkxdrQLV-pOqjYBsS4IlCjw7KE-I_Bm5Z7gnXO2uOXIp2zp_ZPGwMe2EzsWgjgVQELN8oQz0sWWXRz77OE1apcOQVv1yh2cDXwbHbzlSCzKJZs30THpWKFBb4UfRetPpJ0brezPr65okoA0MqhwGuDQxpUEZBouo/https%3A%2F%2Fprino.neocities.org%2Findex.html>
Some REXX code for use on z/OS
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1KGTuJL5FNk7Ol00-RSImmFxCzyrNaAvQIKFtAfOlNdQNAwInzZeiM9vc1JS2phc2tM2veAavej8BKY_OXU3aGcvQzjTbi6hqzIPPXH5sCgWnR1Ibds0hb9vp-qaVTkXQWN1uQwHvxzLZjLKtXTt0haTS3Ny-x-BKb1crR4LlDZVzW2uwZF9RAZX01BruvzZYW9hbrfHXDwbX0SquWpnPo4KZN6zHSYAVRy10DhHqPOPk1M0QyIrI8VHNAoyugyU3pHKuJOoqm-83m9Kt3WPRGFPuTpBsy5nCSfXfAHMl4kwu7WKEVm1JlenhdQS5S4WeIsCIzfOwc2C5UQGTeSXtmMfo9LiJ1IE3N2tdOo4a41tdMzeodGrJ7kZjFJ96VnR4OLGZwrXYjGlDVQpTndNs3tt5stM1WDa1A1EP6NperpQ/https%3A%2F%2Fprino.neocities.org%2FzOS%2FzOS-Tools.html>

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Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Pommier, Rex]

I can think of one guy who probably wishes a few more 5 year predictions would 
have been forgotten.  Stewart Alsop and his infamous 1991 prediction "I predict 
that the last mainframe will be unplugged on March 15, 1996".

oops

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!sFC-mjDAKaitFM9IEYw4ZOP8uKU9vq50VIYYHq7QWJoDB9QKgOmsB_xLkcXGfUXtjbbOfYuQldVgKza5Mw$
 >.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!sFC-mjDAKaitFM9IEYw4ZOP8uKU9vq50VIYYHq7QWJoDB9QKgOmsB_xLkcXGfUXtjbbOfYuQldUa1eC9wA$
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Harper <05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job.

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think.

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted.

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance.

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance.

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future.

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper

Phoenix Software International

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> AI?
>
> More AS!
>
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them 
> for jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
>
> <
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-
> developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve__;!!KjM
> RP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!sFC-mjDAKaitFM9IEYw4ZOP8uKU9vq50VIYYHq7QWJoDB9QKgOmsB_xL
> kcXGfUXtjbbOfYuQldVStGcE7g$
>>
>
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle < 
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
>> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t 
>> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 
>> billion in the latest

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Seymour J Metz]

No, but we might see AI look at problem specifications and generate machine 
code that is hard to express in COBOL.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Robley Lutz <05c088572ccb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 12:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

I guess my question is, do we expect AI to look at COBOL code, and not
simply compile it, but analyze the flow, and output optimized Assembler
code?  Will AI become the highly skilled Assembler programmer that I never
became?

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:54 AM Tom Harper <
05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Dave,
>
> I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at
> CalTrans. Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES -
> EXPENSES and we would all be out of a job.
>
> Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.
>
> The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has
> more nuances than you might think.
>
> As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What
> that means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom
> written in a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.
>
> A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of
> all processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is
> far lower, in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being
> sorted.
>
> The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at
> SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and
> related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this
> instance.
>
> The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software
> International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved
> performance.
>
> Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for
> a tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few
> instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.
>
> Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand
> that it was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor
> than develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and
> went to software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever
> piece of software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so
> they might get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.
>
> I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.
>
> Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable
> future.
>
> So I would revisit your thoughts.
>
> Tom Harper
>
> Phoenix Software International
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle <
> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins <
> 05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > AI?
> >
> > More AS!
> >
> > This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
> > jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
> >
> > <
> >
> https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
> >>
> >
> >> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
> >> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
> >> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
> >> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion
> in
> >> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which
> should
> >> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years
> ago,
> >> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
> >> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
> >> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
> >> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
> >> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
&

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Seymour J Metz]

A 5-year prediction is generally safe, because in 5 years people will have 
forgotten the predictions. Who remembers the failed 5-year predictions for, 
e.g., controlled fusion, human level machine translation?

I expect it to eventually happen, but as for when, Hypotheses non fingo 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotheses_non_fingo>.

On the flip side, hand optimization for pipelined machines is labor intensive 
and fragile; a compiler with an ARCHLVL parameter is better suited for the job.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Harper <05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 11:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job.

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think.

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted.

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance.

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance.

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future.

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper

Phoenix Software International

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> AI?
>
> More AS!
>
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
> jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
>
> <
> https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>>
>
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
>> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
>> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
>> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
>> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
>> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
>> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
>> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
>> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
>> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
>> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in



This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
recei

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Robley Lutz]

I guess my question is, do we expect AI to look at COBOL code, and not
simply compile it, but analyze the flow, and output optimized Assembler
code?  Will AI become the highly skilled Assembler programmer that I never
became?

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:54 AM Tom Harper <
05bfa0e23abd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Dave,
>
> I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at
> CalTrans. Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES -
> EXPENSES and we would all be out of a job.
>
> Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history.
>
> The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has
> more nuances than you might think.
>
> As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What
> that means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom
> written in a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.
>
> A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of
> all processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is
> far lower, in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being
> sorted.
>
> The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at
> SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and
> related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this
> instance.
>
> The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software
> International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved
> performance.
>
> Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for
> a tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few
> instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function.
>
> Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand
> that it was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor
> than develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and
> went to software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever
> piece of software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so
> they might get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language.
>
> I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960.
>
> Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable
> future.
>
> So I would revisit your thoughts.
>
> Tom Harper
>
> Phoenix Software International
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle <
> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins <
> 05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > AI?
> >
> > More AS!
> >
> > This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
> > jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
> >
> > <
> >
> https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
> >>
> >
> >> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
> >> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
> >> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
> >> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion
> in
> >> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which
> should
> >> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years
> ago,
> >> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
> >> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
> >> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
> >> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
> >> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
> >> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in
>
>
>
> 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
> information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
> received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
> review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
> contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
> of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
> message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this
> email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be
> free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system
> into
> 

Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Tom Harper]

Dave,

I was told the same thing 54 years ago when I starting working at CalTrans. 
Managers would just be able to code in COBOL PROFITS = SALES - EXPENSES and we 
would all be out of a job. 

Of course, there are more programmers now  than at any time in history. 

The question of assembler comes up from time to time, and the question has more 
nuances than you might think. 

As it turns out, there are lines of code and lines of executed code. What that 
means is that lines of code that are executed frequently are seldom written in 
a compiled language but are instead written in assembler.  

A good example is sort. In the 1970s sort typically used about a third of all 
processor and channel resources on a mainframe. Today that number is far lower, 
in the mid-teens despite the fact that much more data is being sorted. 

The reason for this is that some very brilliant assembler programmers at 
SyncSort and the  IBM Dfsort team wrote code to highly optimize sorting and 
related functions. I’m counting PL/S as essentially assembler in this instance. 

The same is true at BMC Software and my own company Phoenix Software 
International: highly optimized assembler code greatly improved performance. 

Even though there are almost uncountable lines of COBOL code, it makes for a 
tiny fraction of executed code. Most compiled languages execute a few 
instructions and then invoke a CICS, IMS, or DB2 function. 

Starting in the 1980s, corporations the world over began to understand that it 
was much more cost-effective to buy or lease software from a vendor than 
develop it in house. These developers left the end-user companies and went to 
software houses where they primarily write in assembler. Now ever piece of 
software usually has parts that are not performance-sensitive, so they might 
get written in C++ or Rex or some other compiled language. 

I’ve grown up with software, having written my first program in 1960. 

Assembler won’t be gone in five years or anytime can the foreseeable future. 

So I would revisit your thoughts.

Tom Harper 

Phoenix Software International 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 11:07 AM, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
> <05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> AI?
> 
> More AS!
> 
> This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
> jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:
> 
> <
> https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>> 
> 
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
>> 0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
>> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
>> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
>> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
>> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
>> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
>> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
>> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
>> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
>> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
>> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in



This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this
email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be
free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into
which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient
to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the
sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use.

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Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Dave Beagle]

On LinkedIn I searched for AI jobs and got 154,000 hits. I then searched for 
Assembler jobs and got 6478 hits. As a very smart person said, AI won’t replace 
workers, people who know AI will replace people who don’t.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 11:08 AM, Dave Beagle 
<0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
<05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

AI?

More AS!

This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:

<
https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in the world by
> market cap. (Behind Microsoft & Apple) To think AI is just a passing fad is
> foolish.
>
>
>
>
> --
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>


-- 
Robert AH Prins
robert(a)prino(d)org
The hitchhiking grandfather 
Some REXX code for use on z/OS


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Re: [Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Dave Beagle]

Assembler programming will be almost nonexistent in 5 years.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 22, 2024, 10:32 AM, Robert Prins 
<05be6ef5bfea-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

AI?

More AS!

This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:

<
https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in the world by
> market cap. (Behind Microsoft & Apple) To think AI is just a passing fad is
> foolish.
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Robert AH Prins
robert(a)prino(d)org
The hitchhiking grandfather 
Some REXX code for use on z/OS


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[Very much off-topic] Re: AI is the real deal.

[Robert Prins]

AI?

More AS!

This is on LinkedIn, it's AI generated and you can probably sue them for
jaw-dislocation due to excessive laughter:

<
https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/how-can-developers-take-ownership-bugs-skills-system-development-x9cve
>

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 23:37, Dave Beagle <
0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Well, today was NVIDIA earnings day. They are the bellwether for AI.
> Theirs is the premier AI chip commanding top dollar. And they didn’t
> disappoint. Their revenues are up 400% in the last year. To 22 billion in
> the latest quarter. They’ve got another chip on tap this year which should
> continue the incredible growth. If you had invested $10,000 five years ago,
> you’d have earned 2000%, and would have $200,000. If you had
> invested $10,000 ten years ago, you’d have earned over 16,465%. And have
> 1.65 million. AI is only in its infancy. It will be bigger than the
> internet. Microsoft, META, Google, and nearly every IT company is
> betting big on AI. That spending will continue. NVIDIA’s market cap is
> approaching 2 trillion.  It’s now the 3rd largest company in the world by
> market cap. (Behind Microsoft & Apple) To think AI is just a passing fad is
> foolish.
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Robert AH Prins
robert(a)prino(d)org
The hitchhiking grandfather 
Some REXX code for use on z/OS


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Re: Assembler programmer wanted (but off-topic)

[Bob Bridges]

I'm reminded of a bit from "The Sting", a movie about a big con.  A supplier is 
providing the uniforms and other props for the con, and during discussion the 
head of the con says "Ok, how do you want to be paid?  You want a cut, or flat 
rate?"

Supplier: Who's the mark?

Head: Doyle Lonnegan.

Supplier (with a disgusted look): Flat rate!

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.  -from 
_Calvin & Hobbes_ */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2023 16:07

3. I'm aware of application programmers paid in similar way. However it is 
exception, not the rule. And usually they are paid "in futures", because the 
startup cannot afford regular salary.

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Board moderation (off topic)

[Dean Kent]

I don't know how many here have had to moderate a message board.   I 
have, and it isn't as simple as just 'removing a thread'.   In order to 
make sure that *nothing* is off-topic, you have to ignore what the 
header says (since many people simply 'reply' and leave whatever header 
is there, while inserting their own content).  Sometimes a header that 
looks off-topic contains relevant material.   It is possible for 
hundreds of messages to be posted in one day, and if you aren't a 'full 
time' moderator it may be several days before you get looking at 
everything.   While it may be possible to identify off-topic threads 
based upon the header, depending on how often one looks at messages even 
that may not highlight the 'problem' immediately due to the sheer number 
to have to review.   Sometimes no matter how good your intentions, 
someone files a first amendment lawsuit.  So, perhaps it is better 
sometimes to wait and see if a topic dies on its own before taking action.


I coach water polo, and attend all referee meetings.   One of the most 
talked about topic is how parents and coaches interact with referees.   
Everyone thinks they are justified in whatever comments they make to 
referees, no matter how inappropriate - so the best reply is "if you 
think you can do a better job, volunteer to do it yourself".   Criticism 
is easy.   It takes more than complaining to solve the problem.   'Nuff 
said, I think.   Back on 'lurk'...


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Re: A Little off topic but reasonable post (IMO)

[Seymour J Metz]

I suspect that the SPF clones for Linux and Unix will also run on the Mac. 
There's also THE, which is a (mostly) XEDIT clone.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Edward Gould <04bcc43af339-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2023 7:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: A Little off topic but reasonable post (IMO)

Hello,
I am looking for an ISPF editor(like) for MACOSX I will be needing this quite a 
bit in a month or two.
Can anyone give me a hint as to its availability/non.
Thanks,
Ed
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Re: A Little off topic but reasonable post (IMO)

[Mike Schwab]

https://primanew.amebaownd.com/posts/15535751/

On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 6:01 PM Edward Gould
<04bcc43af339-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I am looking for an ISPF editor(like) for MACOSX I will be needing this quite 
> a bit in a month or two.
> Can anyone give me a hint as to its availability/non.
> Thanks,
> Ed
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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A Little off topic but reasonable post (IMO)

[Edward Gould]

Hello,
I am looking for an ISPF editor(like) for MACOSX I will be needing this quite a 
bit in a month or two.
Can anyone give me a hint as to its availability/non.
Thanks,
Ed
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Re: PL/X Open Source and PL/I (off topic)

[Bob Bridges]

I would say "No, no exceptions".  I don't mean that all companies are monsters, 
only that moral behavior is a feature of individual humans.  If a company 
behaves well it's because one or more individuals within the company are making 
moral decisions on its behalf.

This isn't a condemnation of companies.  I'm just saying it's the only way it 
CAN be.  A group is not a person and cannot have moral judgement, though its 
individual members may.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* ...it is not humanity in the abstract that is to be saved, but you -- you, 
the individual reader, John Stubbs or Janet Smith.  Blessed and fortunate 
creature, your eyes shall behold Him and not another'sYour place in heaven 
will seem to be made for you and you alone, because you were made for it -- 
made for it stitch by stitch as a glove is made for a hand.  -from "The Problem 
of Pain" by CS Lewis. */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Robert Prins
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2023 12:40

Big companies do not have morals, with maybe some, I don't know which ones, 
exceptions.

--- On 2023-10-02 13:03, Clem Clarke wrote:
> And it morally should.

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Last Warning - Off-topic posts

[Darren Evans-Young]

Please keep discussions on-topic please!

If you continue to post off-topic emails to the list, you
will be removed or at least NOPOSTed.  I'm receiving
complaints AGAIN!

If you are having an issue with another subscriber, you
can email them directly and not to the list.

Thanks,
Darren

P.S. - No need to reply/comment on this email either.

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Off Topic: Advanced Capacity Planning and Laundries

[Keith Gooding]

This is a long shot: Many years ago, probably early nineties, I attended a 1 
week IBM course with the title “MVS Advanced Capacity Planning” (or similar). 
It was given by a Canadian IBMer. At the start of the course he gave out, 
without further explanation, copies of some articles. One was a story about a 
student who used a Chinese laundry. The proprietor used the laundry items to 
make deductions about the student’s life, eventually concluding that the 
student had committed a murder. (All wrong of course - hence the link to 
capacity planning).

I think the story was from one of the Stephen Potter books (who wrote about 
“Gamesmanship etc in the 1950’s).

Does anyone else remember this and have details of the source ?

Keith Gooding

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Re: Off-Topic? (was: Creating XLS file)

[Paul Gilmartin]

> >>KEDIT does no support prefix macros. When I used XEDIT, I depended on SET 
> >>PENDING et al.
> >>
>  
> >How is this particularly relevant to "Creating XLS file"?
> 
> Sorry, it was my fault. My software is currently flakey, And I can't 
> programmatically reply,
>  
Can you get a new one, better than QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9? 
Or Reply via the WWW interface?
https://listserv.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=IBM-MAIN-ARCHIVES

> so I copy-and-paste from Usenet to my e-mail program. And, as a template, I 
> used the previous message I sent, and forgot to change the Subject. The 
> Subject should have been, "re: SPF/SE out of business?".
>  
Even if you do that correctly it breaks threading by the In-Reply-To: 
and Message-Id: headers.

-- gil

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Re: Off-Topic? (was: Creating XLS file)

[Arthur]

In 
Message-ID:<4979875910604534.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>,
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu (Paul 
Gilmartin) wrote:


>On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 11:56:46 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>>KEDIT does no support prefix macros. When I used XEDIT, 
I depended on SET PENDING et al.

>>
>How is this particularly relevant to "Creating XLS file"?

Sorry, it was my fault. My software is currently flakey, 
and I can't programmatically reply, so I copy-and-paste 
from Usenet to my e-mail program. And, as a template, I 
used the previous message I sent, and forgot to change the 
Subject. The Subject should have been, "re: SPF/SE out 
of business?".


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Re: Off-Topic? (was: Creating XLS file)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 13:09:02 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Ongoing topic drift.
>
Hardly.  Not even mere Punctuated Equilibrium.  It seems to be a hybrid
of a Subject: last active March 25 with content from the recent SPF/SE
thread; a shameless union.

Reminiscent of a USENET bane; users not knowing how to start a thread
posted a followup to an unrelated topic.

-- gil

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Re: Off-Topic? (was: Creating XLS file)

[Seymour J Metz]

Ongoing topic drift.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 8:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Off-Topic? (was: Creating XLS file)

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 11:56:46 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>KEDIT does no support prefix macros. When I used XEDIT, I depended on SET 
>PENDING et al.
>
How is this particularly relevant to "Creating XLS file"?

-- gil

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Off-Topic? (was: Creating XLS file)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 11:56:46 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>KEDIT does no support prefix macros. When I used XEDIT, I depended on SET 
>PENDING et al.
>
How is this particularly relevant to "Creating XLS file"?

-- gil

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Re: OFF TOPIC - SIGNING OFF LINKEDIN

[ITschak Mugzach]

It was the first item on google ... ;-)

בתאריך שבת, 4 בינו׳ 2020, 18:08, מאת willie bunter ‏<
001409bd2345-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>:

> Super.  It worked.  A massive thanks.
>
>
> On Saturday, January 4, 2020, 3:53:51 PM GMT, ITschak Mugzach <
> imugz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  *To close your LinkedIn account:*
>
>   1. Tap your profile picture.
>   2. Tap the Settings icon in the top right corner of your profile.
>   3. On the Account tab, tap Close account.
>   4. Tap Continue to proceed with closing your account.
>   5. Tap the reason for closing your account and tap Next.
>   6. Enter your account password and tap Done.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 5:50 PM willie bunter <
> 001409bd2345-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Good Morning All,
> >
> >I am trying to end my association with LINKEDIN.  I have looked at all
> > the options but I couldn't find anything.  I am sure it is staring me in
> > the face.  Any suggestions would be gladly appreciated.
> >
> > Many thanks.
> >
> > --
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> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
>
>
> --
> ITschak Mugzach
> *|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring
> for Legacy **|  *
>
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>
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Re: OFF TOPIC - SIGNING OFF LINKEDIN

[willie bunter]

Super.  It worked.  A massive thanks.


On Saturday, January 4, 2020, 3:53:51 PM GMT, ITschak Mugzach 
 wrote:  
 
 *To close your LinkedIn account:*

  1. Tap your profile picture.
  2. Tap the Settings icon in the top right corner of your profile.
  3. On the Account tab, tap Close account.
  4. Tap Continue to proceed with closing your account.
  5. Tap the reason for closing your account and tap Next.
  6. Enter your account password and tap Done.


On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 5:50 PM willie bunter <
001409bd2345-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Good Morning All,
>
>    I am trying to end my association with LINKEDIN.  I have looked at all
> the options but I couldn't find anything.  I am sure it is staring me in
> the face.  Any suggestions would be gladly appreciated.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring
for Legacy **|  *

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Re: OFF TOPIC - SIGNING OFF LINKEDIN

[ITschak Mugzach]

*To close your LinkedIn account:*

   1. Tap your profile picture.
   2. Tap the Settings icon in the top right corner of your profile.
   3. On the Account tab, tap Close account.
   4. Tap Continue to proceed with closing your account.
   5. Tap the reason for closing your account and tap Next.
   6. Enter your account password and tap Done.


On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 5:50 PM willie bunter <
001409bd2345-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Good Morning All,
>
> I am trying to end my association with LINKEDIN.  I have looked at all
> the options but I couldn't find anything.  I am sure it is staring me in
> the face.  Any suggestions would be gladly appreciated.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring
for Legacy **|  *

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OFF TOPIC - SIGNING OFF LINKEDIN

[willie bunter]

Good Morning All,

    I am trying to end my association with LINKEDIN.  I have looked at all the 
options but I couldn't find anything.  I am sure it is staring me in the face.  
Any suggestions would be gladly appreciated.

Many thanks.

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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Porowski, Kenneth]

And I did cut and paste, no idea how the 'a' changed to a 'c'.

If I can't spell it in 8 characters or less I use cut/paste.



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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Porowski, Kenneth
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 10:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

I actually have one, should have bought 2 as mine is used and seriously grungy.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Charles Mills
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 8:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

1993 or so, it would appear from this page. (Mind the wrap.)

https://books.google.com/books?id=O3xyvDOfru0C=PA132

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Don Poitras
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

Obvious typo. Which leads me to think it was typed in. A true mainframer
eschewing the
new-fangled mouse cut and paste. :)

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/physical-object/2009/04/
102682822.01.01.lg.jpg


In article
 you
wrote:
> 404, alas...

> On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 11:18 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht <
> elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za> wrote:

> > Porowski, Kenneth wrote:
> >
> > >"Bud and Elliot Grundt develop the first Mainframe Mouse."
> >
>http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/cccess/physical-object/2009/
> > 04/102682822.01.01.lg.jpg
> >
> > Rats! That is a good picture of that "painframe" rat! ;-)
> >
> > Hmmm, is the numbr 102682822 shown, the actual number of those
> > Mainframe Mouse manufactured?
> >
> > Will it hurts when that rat driver drives over those power cables? ;-)
> >
> > Thanks Kenneth for bringing a great smile! ;-)
> >
> > Please keep up posting on IBM-MAIN! ;-)
> >
> > Groete / Greetings
> > Elardus Engelbrecht
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
--
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sas...@sas.com   (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513

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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Porowski, Kenneth]

I actually have one, should have bought 2 as mine is used and seriously grungy.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Charles Mills
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 8:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

1993 or so, it would appear from this page. (Mind the wrap.)

https://books.google.com/books?id=O3xyvDOfru0C=PA132

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Don Poitras
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

Obvious typo. Which leads me to think it was typed in. A true mainframer
eschewing the
new-fangled mouse cut and paste. :)

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/physical-object/2009/04/
102682822.01.01.lg.jpg


In article
 you
wrote:
> 404, alas...

> On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 11:18 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht <
> elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za> wrote:

> > Porowski, Kenneth wrote:
> >
> > >"Bud and Elliot Grundt develop the first Mainframe Mouse."
> >
>http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/cccess/physical-object/2009/
> > 04/102682822.01.01.lg.jpg
> >
> > Rats! That is a good picture of that "painframe" rat! ;-)
> >
> > Hmmm, is the numbr 102682822 shown, the actual number of those
> > Mainframe Mouse manufactured?
> >
> > Will it hurts when that rat driver drives over those power cables? ;-)
> >
> > Thanks Kenneth for bringing a great smile! ;-)
> >
> > Please keep up posting on IBM-MAIN! ;-)
> >
> > Groete / Greetings
> > Elardus Engelbrecht
> -- 
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
-- 
Don Poitras - SAS Development  -  SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive
sas...@sas.com   (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513

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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[David Cole]

My 2-cents worth...

I prefer darker background colors and, therefore, lighter text 
colors. I find that to me far easier on my eyes than white backgrounds.


The original hardware monitors from IBM had a blue that was too dark. 
It blended in with the black background so much that I could hardly 
see it. So one thing I always do is change the workstation's software 
to use a lighter blue.


I find it extremely useful to run multiple TSO sessions 
simultaneously, so I routinely run with multiple workstation windows 
open. To help keep things straight, I find it useful to define 
different color schemes for each workstation window.


Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:dbc...@colesoft.com

Home page:   www.colesoft.com
LinkedIn:www.xdc.com
Facebook:www.facebook.com/colesoftware
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/colesoftware

Tools:   z/XDC for Assembler debugging
 c/XDC for C debugging






At 7/6/2018 10:45 AM, Dyck, Lionel B. (RavenTek) wrote:
For years I was used to the default TN3270 client having a black 
background and colors that seemed to glow at times. Then I found 
that I could adjust the colors and found that a grey (or is it gray) 
background worked better for my viewing experience and I adjusted 
the other colors accordingly and made them more muted where 
possible. Now I'm using Reflections and am using the Ice theme with 
some slight modifications and it works great. When I'm using Vista 
TN3270 I have adjusted all the colors for a grey background as well.
With Reflections there are many other color themes and I'm sure 
other TN3270 products also support them in varying ways of completeness.

Has anyone does any human factor studies on optimizing screen colors?
Thoughts/comments for a Friday
--
Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor)  <
Mainframe Systems Programmer - RavenTek Solution Partners

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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 18:36:28 -0400, zMan wrote:

>404, alas...
>
>On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 11:18 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote:
>
>> Porowski, Kenneth wrote:
>>
>> >"Bud and Elliot Grundt develop the first Mainframe Mouse."
>> >http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/cccess/physical-object/2009/
>> 04/102682822.01.01.lg.jpg
>>
There's a typo in your Elardus's citation and yours.  Original was:

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/physical-object/2009/04/102682822.01.01.lg.jpg

-- gil

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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Charles Mills]

Aha! Found the original.

https://books.google.com/books?id=vfztUIpZm7UC=PA2 

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 5:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

1993 or so, it would appear from this page. (Mind the wrap.)

https://books.google.com/books?id=O3xyvDOfru0C=PA132

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Don Poitras
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

Obvious typo. Which leads me to think it was typed in. A true mainframer
eschewing the
new-fangled mouse cut and paste. :)

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/physical-object/2009/04/
102682822.01.01.lg.jpg


In article
 you
wrote:
> 404, alas...

> On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 11:18 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht <
> elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za> wrote:

> > Porowski, Kenneth wrote:
> >
> > >"Bud and Elliot Grundt develop the first Mainframe Mouse."
> >
>http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/cccess/physical-object/2009/
> > 04/102682822.01.01.lg.jpg
> >
> > Rats! That is a good picture of that "painframe" rat! ;-)
> >
> > Hmmm, is the numbr 102682822 shown, the actual number of those
> > Mainframe Mouse manufactured?
> >
> > Will it hurts when that rat driver drives over those power cables? ;-)
> >
> > Thanks Kenneth for bringing a great smile! ;-)
> >
> > Please keep up posting on IBM-MAIN! ;-)
> >
> > Groete / Greetings
> > Elardus Engelbrecht
> -- 
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
-- 
Don Poitras - SAS Development  -  SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive
sas...@sas.com   (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513

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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Charles Mills]

1993 or so, it would appear from this page. (Mind the wrap.)

https://books.google.com/books?id=O3xyvDOfru0C=PA132

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Don Poitras
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

Obvious typo. Which leads me to think it was typed in. A true mainframer
eschewing the
new-fangled mouse cut and paste. :)

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/physical-object/2009/04/
102682822.01.01.lg.jpg


In article
 you
wrote:
> 404, alas...

> On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 11:18 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht <
> elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za> wrote:

> > Porowski, Kenneth wrote:
> >
> > >"Bud and Elliot Grundt develop the first Mainframe Mouse."
> >
>http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/cccess/physical-object/2009/
> > 04/102682822.01.01.lg.jpg
> >
> > Rats! That is a good picture of that "painframe" rat! ;-)
> >
> > Hmmm, is the numbr 102682822 shown, the actual number of those
> > Mainframe Mouse manufactured?
> >
> > Will it hurts when that rat driver drives over those power cables? ;-)
> >
> > Thanks Kenneth for bringing a great smile! ;-)
> >
> > Please keep up posting on IBM-MAIN! ;-)
> >
> > Groete / Greetings
> > Elardus Engelbrecht
> -- 
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
-- 
Don Poitras - SAS Development  -  SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive
sas...@sas.com   (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513

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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Don Poitras]

Obvious typo. Which leads me to think it was typed in. A true mainframer 
eschewing the
new-fangled mouse cut and paste. :)

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/physical-object/2009/04/102682822.01.01.lg.jpg


In article  
you wrote:
> 404, alas...

> On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 11:18 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht <
> elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za> wrote:

> > Porowski, Kenneth wrote:
> >
> > >"Bud and Elliot Grundt develop the first Mainframe Mouse."
> > >http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/cccess/physical-object/2009/
> > 04/102682822.01.01.lg.jpg
> >
> > Rats! That is a good picture of that "painframe" rat! ;-)
> >
> > Hmmm, is the numbr 102682822 shown, the actual number of those
> > Mainframe Mouse manufactured?
> >
> > Will it hurts when that rat driver drives over those power cables? ;-)
> >
> > Thanks Kenneth for bringing a great smile! ;-)
> >
> > Please keep up posting on IBM-MAIN! ;-)
> >
> > Groete / Greetings
> > Elardus Engelbrecht
> -- 
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
-- 
Don Poitras - SAS Development  -  SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive
sas...@sas.com   (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513

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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Porowski, Kenneth wrote:

>"Bud and Elliot Grundt develop the first Mainframe Mouse."
>http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/cccess/physical-object/2009/04/102682822.01.01.lg.jpg

Rats! That is a good picture of that "painframe" rat! ;-)

Hmmm, is the numbr 102682822 shown, the actual number of those Mainframe 
Mouse manufactured?

Will it hurts when that rat driver drives over those power cables? ;-)

Thanks Kenneth for bringing a great smile! ;-)

Please keep up posting on IBM-MAIN! ;-)

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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AW: Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Peter Hunkeler]

>I use a white background with colors that are more or less the way they are
described. The exceptions are white, which I have set to be black, and yellow,
which I have set to a shade of brown. I find this to be much more pleasing to
my eyes. It doesn't matter so much at 24 x 80, but at 88 x 142, it makes a
big difference.


Been working with just about these colors for the last 20+ years. I find it 
much more relaxing, especially when swapping between office suite windows and 
3270 windows.


--
Peter Hunkeler




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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Tom Marchant]

On Fri, 6 Jul 2018 14:45:21 +, Dyck, Lionel B. (RavenTek) wrote:

>For years I was used to the default TN3270 client having a black background . 
>. .

I use a white background with colors that are more or less the way they are 
described. The exceptions are white, which I have set to be black, and yellow, 
which I have set to a shade of brown. I find this to be much more pleasing to 
my eyes. It doesn't matter so much at 24 x 80, but at 88 x 142, it makes a 
big difference.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Paul Gilmartin]

(Oops!  I pasted the wrong link)

On Fri, 6 Jul 2018 11:31:04 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

>On Fri, 6 Jul 2018 11:45:30 -0400, David Purdy wrote:
>
>>When I worked at Tektronix in the '80s, their display folks found a blue 
>>backgound with yellow letters provided good contrast with the least 
>>eyestrain.  I've used that combination ever since. YMMV with newer monitors 
>>and drivers.
>> 
>That sounds perilously close to "vibration":
>https://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/712.fall02/papers/p761-thompson.pdf
> 
Should have been:

https://webdesign.tutsplus.com/articles/why-you-should-avoid-vibrating-color-combinations--cms-25621

>Examples from that page:
>
> https://cms-assets.tutsplus.com/uploads/users/30/posts/25621/image/vomit.svg

-- gil

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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 6 Jul 2018 11:45:30 -0400, David Purdy wrote:

>When I worked at Tektronix in the '80s, their display folks found a blue 
>backgound with yellow letters provided good contrast with the least eyestrain. 
> I've used that combination ever since. YMMV with newer monitors and drivers.
> 
That sounds perilously close to "vibration":
https://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/712.fall02/papers/p761-thompson.pdf

Examples from that page:
https://cms-assets.tutsplus.com/uploads/users/30/posts/25621/image/vomit.svg

-- gil

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Re: Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[David Purdy]

When I worked at Tektronix in the '80s, their display folks found a blue 
backgound with yellow letters provided good contrast with the least eyestrain.  
I've used that combination ever since. YMMV with newer monitors and drivers.

David



On Friday, July 6, 2018 Dyck, Lionel B. (RavenTek) (RavenTek) 
 wrote:
For years I was used to the default TN3270 client having a black background and 
colors that seemed to glow at times. Then I found that I could adjust the 
colors and found that a grey (or is it gray) background worked better for my 
viewing experience and I adjusted the other colors accordingly and made them 
more muted where possible. Now I'm using Reflections and am using the Ice theme 
with some slight modifications and it works great. When I'm using Vista TN3270 
I have adjusted all the colors for a grey background as well.

With Reflections there are many other color themes and I'm sure other TN3270 
products also support them in varying ways of completeness.

Has anyone does any human factor studies on optimizing screen colors?

Thoughts/comments for a Friday

--
Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) <
Mainframe Systems Programmer - RavenTek Solution Partners



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Friday - off topic - human factors and TN3270

[Dyck, Lionel B. (RavenTek)]

For years I was used to the default TN3270 client having a black background and 
colors that seemed to glow at times. Then I found that I could adjust the 
colors and found that a grey (or is it gray) background worked better for my 
viewing experience and I adjusted the other colors accordingly and made them 
more muted where possible. Now I'm using Reflections and am using the Ice theme 
with some slight modifications and it works great. When I'm using Vista TN3270 
I have adjusted all the colors for a grey background as well.

With Reflections there are many other color themes and I'm sure other TN3270 
products also support them in varying ways of completeness.

Has anyone does any human factor studies on optimizing screen colors?

Thoughts/comments for a Friday

--
Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor)  <
Mainframe Systems Programmer - RavenTek Solution Partners



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A bit off topic 360/50 Front Panel will be up for sale

[Pete Lancashire]

I am having to dispose of all my goodies due to a terminal illness and I
though someone here
might be interested.

The particular item is front panel from a 360/50

https://photos.app.goo.gl/36CxlZQJDssj5uLh1

It includes a damaged "IBM 360" aluminum block that goes on top. A new one
can be fabricated
for around $150-200.

Location is Portland Oregon USA

Some facts on the /50

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360_Model_50

https://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP2050.html


And what someone has done with a similar panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv6WK5QiG1Q

The last panel to sell from a smaller 360 went for $7,200 US

Sorry if this post violates and of the lists rules

-pete

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Re: Off topic - FTP client/server for android that supports the android SD card

[Binyamin Dissen]

Thanks. That one worked.

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 07:54:54 -0600 Walt Farrell 
wrote:

:>On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:44:20 +0200, Binyamin Dissen 
 wrote:
:>
:>>Everyone that I have tried does not give access to the SD card where the big
:>>files are.
:>>
:>>Any recommendations?
:>
:>I don't have access to an FTP server right now to test it, but ES File 
Explorer provides FTP support, and its other functions support the SD card, so 
it might do what you need, Binyamin.

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

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Re: Off topic - FTP client/server for android that supports the android SD card

[Alan Young]

Total Commander with the ftp plugin works for me on Android 4.4. 
However, you may be dealing with a version of Android where the external 
sdcard permissions were "locked down" by Google and/or the phone/tablet 
manufacturer. The application may need to be granted access to the 
sdcard or it has access to limited directories on the sdcard. It depends 
on the android version and manufacturer on how to achieve read and/or 
write access to the external card.


Binyamin Dissen wrote:

Everyone that I have tried does not give access to the SD card where the big
files are.

Any recommendations?

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

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Re: Off topic - FTP client/server for android that supports the android SD card

[Walt Farrell]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:44:20 +0200, Binyamin Dissen 
 wrote:

>Everyone that I have tried does not give access to the SD card where the big
>files are.
>
>Any recommendations?

I don't have access to an FTP server right now to test it, but ES File Explorer 
provides FTP support, and its other functions support the SD card, so it might 
do what you need, Binyamin.

-- 
Walt

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Re: Off topic - FTP client/server for android that supports the android SD card

[Jackson, Rob]

I use the FtpCafe client, which supports it just fine for uploads and 
downloads.  After connecting, on the LOCAL tab, you navigate to /sdcard (which 
maps to /storage/emulated/0 on my phone) and take it from there.  I don't run a 
server on it.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Binyamin Dissen
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 7:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Off topic - FTP client/server for android that supports the android SD 
card

[External Email]

Everyone that I have tried does not give access to the SD card where the big 
files are.

Any recommendations?

--
Binyamin Dissen <bdis...@dissensoftware.com> http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


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FIRST TENNESSEE

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Off topic - FTP client/server for android that supports the android SD card

[Binyamin Dissen]

Everyone that I have tried does not give access to the SD card where the big
files are.

Any recommendations?

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


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you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

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Re: z12 lifespan to OFF TOPIC

[Ed Gould]

On Jan 16, 2015, at 7:01 AM, John McKown wrote:

--SNIP
​Yea. I'd love to be able to upgrade my 2013 Mazda just by  
replacing the

changed parts, especially since I really wish that I had gone with the
Bluetooth now.​ And, with 30F temperatures, in N. Texas, I would  
love to

upgrade my driver chair to have heat.



John,

Interesting observation but as devices changes so does everything else.

I have a reasonably good HIFI system in my car. I had a dickens of a  
time for the stereo to read my 48GB memory stick.
I originally thought that it was the GB size of the stick, turns out  
that it would not recognize .AIF music files. As a fall back I  
thought I would just use an IPOD , and that worked fine until the  
damn temperature in Chicago dipped below 32F and the IPOD won't work.
The company that supports the unit is from your area and they were  
blissfully unaware of the IPOD not working in sub freezing weather.

I would much rather have the stick as there are no moving parts.
So your area is blessed.

Ed

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Steve Comstock]

[top posting]

Got it. Had to set emulation to Windows 95, not Windows XP.

Thanks for the suggestions.

-Steve

On 10/28/2013 8:11 PM, Steve Comstock wrote:

On 10/28/2013 7:28 PM, Lance D. Jackson wrote:

Steve,


It runs just fine on my Win 8.0 machine. What issues are you having?

-Original Message-
From: Steve Comstock [mailto:st...@trainersfriend.com]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 06:04 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

Has anybody gotten SPFPRO to run on Windows 8.1 (oreven 8.0, for that
matter)?Looks like I'll have to give up one of my favorite tools.Kind
regards,-Steve
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Well, first I simply copied over the directory containing the
program files to my new system. I set up the program properties
to run in compatibilty mode for Win XP SP 3. When I launch the
progam I get two phenomema:

1) I get prompted if it's OK for this program to make
changes to this computer - I reply Yes

2) then I get a system error that the program can't
start because SPW32DM.DLL is missing from the
computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix the
problem

[Note: all the DLLs are in the directory containing
 all the SPFPRO files]


---

Now, I have not been successful running any install program
from this directory; there are very few candidates:

PATCH.EXE
PDSUTIL.EXE
PRFUPGDW.EXE
SETUP.EXE
SPFECHO.EXE
Spfpro.exe
SPW32THK.EXE
UPG50.EXE
UPGRADE.BAT
VOL.EXE

When I try any of these (except Spfpro.exe which is described
above) I get This App can't run on your PC

--

I notice the properties for the icon I use to launch Spfpro.exe
says the program is located in C:\Users\SteveComstock\Desktop
but I actually put everything in C:\SPFPRO, so that's a mystery.

Any suggestions?


Thanks.

-Steve







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Re: AW: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
vmime.52775d37.1c6.c642028117b26...@dms02.intranet.set-software.de,
on 11/04/2013
   at 09:39 AM, Michael Knigge michael.kni...@set-software.de said:

THE might be a good tool for everyone who needs/likes an 
?XEDIT-Clone, but it is a bad choice for everyone who looks for an 
ISPF-like editor.

Sure, and a hammer is a poor choice for everyone who looks for a
screwdriver.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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AW: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Michael Knigge]

 It's hardly fair to judge THE by how well it simulates ISPF/PDF EDIT.
 Do you have any issues with its XEDIT compatibility?

THE might be a good tool for everyone who needs/likes an XEDIT-Clone, but it is 
a bad choice for everyone who looks for an ISPF-like editor. The behavior is a 
little bit strange here and there and (last time I tried it) some line and 
primary  commands were missing. IMHO.

Bye,
Michael

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Re: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
vmime.52711cc5.4ed2.933c6b6363ae3...@dms02.intranet.set-software.de,
on 10/30/2013
   at 03:50 PM, Michael Knigge michael.kni...@set-software.de said:

Do not even think about trying THE
(http://hessling-editor.sourceforge.net/). Okay, it supports Rexx,
but it does not really feel like the editor under ISPF (ok, to be
fair, it is a XEDIT-like editor that can be configured like the
ISPF-editor - but not really well)

It's hardly fair to judge THE by how well it simulates ISPF/PDF EDIT.
Do you have any issues with its XEDIT compatibility?
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Jim Turner]

I'm running SPF/Pro 5.0 on Windows 8.1 without any problems.  For several years 
now when I upgrade Windows or switch machines I simply copy the SPFPro 
directory over to the new version/machine.  Then I create a shortcut for 
SPFPROW.EXE on my desktop.

You do need to open the shortcuts properties and make sure the shortcut tab 
shows the proper directory in the 'Start in:' field so it can find its own DLL 
files.

I'm not using any compatibility mode setting and it's running just fine.

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AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Michael Knigge]

Ah. just one more note.

As 64 Bit Versions of Windows are not able to run 16 Bit Executables any more, 
you may want to give DOSBox (http://www.dosbox.com/) a try if you really can't 
live without the ancient SPF/PRO or whatever (I assume these old applications 
are 16 Bit applications - don't know exactly)


Bye,
Michael

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Re: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[R.S.]

W dniu 2013-10-31 13:46, Michael Knigge pisze:

Ah. just one more note.

As 64 Bit Versions of Windows are not able to run 16 Bit Executables any more, you may 
want to give DOSBox (http://www.dosbox.com/) a try if you really can't live 
without the ancient SPF/PRO or whatever (I assume these old applications are 16 Bit 
applications - don't know exactly)

Another solution: z/VM, , that means virtual machine.
There are free choices: VirtualBox, VMWare Player and M$ Virtual PC. The 
last one is available for free, you can also get WinXP image (at least 
for Win7 *Professional* users). There are other choices, a t least some 
of them are not free.


--
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Lodz, Poland






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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Dave Cole]

Steve,

I've been using SPF/PRO 5.04 for probably over a decade or more. My 
experience is the same as yours. When I tried it on WIN 8, it failed to start.


I forget the symptom, but my PC guru, Frank, says, 64-bit WIN8 
expressly prohibits 16-bit programs, and SPF/PRO starts up as a 
16-bit program. He goes on to say that SPF/PC should work in 32-bit WIN8.


In any case, personally I need SPF/PRO far more than I need WIN8, so 
for the foreseeable future, I'm keeping my business machines on WIN7.


As for SPF/SE, when CTC first came out with it as a replacement for 
SPF/PRO, I was hugely disappointed. I don't remember all the details, 
but it was utterly incompatible with SPF/PC in its user interface, 
and IIRC, it no longer supported REXX as its macro language.


Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:   dbc...@colesoft.com

Home page:   www.colesoft.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/colesoftware
YouTube:  www.youtube.com/user/colesoftware






At 10/28/2013 06:04 PM, Steve Comstock wrote:

Has anybody gotten SPFPRO to run on Windows 8.1 (or
even 8.0, for that matter)?

Looks like I'll have to give up one of my favorite tools.

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[John McKown]

Being a Linux bigot (only use Windows at work), I am wondering if there is
any documentation on SPFPRO or other ISPF-like environments. In particular,
do these products emulate all of ISPF or only the ISPF editor? Can the
editor run macros? If so, only REXX or can it use other scripting
facilities such as Windows command scripts or maybe even some other
scripting language?


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Dave Cole dbc...@gmail.com wrote:

 Steve,

 I've been using SPF/PRO 5.04 for probably over a decade or more. My
 experience is the same as yours. When I tried it on WIN 8, it failed to
 start.

 I forget the symptom, but my PC guru, Frank, says, 64-bit WIN8 expressly
 prohibits 16-bit programs, and SPF/PRO starts up as a 16-bit program. He
 goes on to say that SPF/PC should work in 32-bit WIN8.

 In any case, personally I need SPF/PRO far more than I need WIN8, so for
 the foreseeable future, I'm keeping my business machines on WIN7.

 As for SPF/SE, when CTC first came out with it as a replacement for
 SPF/PRO, I was hugely disappointed. I don't remember all the details, but
 it was utterly incompatible with SPF/PC in its user interface, and IIRC, it
 no longer supported REXX as its macro language.

 Dave Cole
 ColeSoft Marketing
 414 Third Street, NE
 Charlottesville, VA 22902
 EADDRESS:   dbc...@colesoft.com

 Home page:   www.colesoft.com
 Facebook: www.facebook.com/colesoftware
 YouTube:  
 www.youtube.com/user/**colesoftwarehttp://www.youtube.com/user/colesoftware






 At 10/28/2013 06:04 PM, Steve Comstock wrote:

 Has anybody gotten SPFPRO to run on Windows 8.1 (or
 even 8.0, for that matter)?

 Looks like I'll have to give up one of my favorite tools.

 Kind regards,

 -Steve Comstock

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-- 
This is clearly another case of too many mad scientists, and not enough
hunchbacks.

Maranatha! 
John McKown

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Dave Cole]

At 10/30/2013 09:40 AM, John McKown wrote:

Being a Linux bigot (only use Windows at work), I am wondering if there is
any documentation on SPFPRO or other ISPF-like environments. In particular,
do these products emulate all of ISPF or only the ISPF editor? Can the
editor run macros? If so, only REXX or can it use other scripting
facilities such as Windows command scripts or maybe even some other
scripting language?


John,

Unfortunately, SPF/PRO was orphaned by CTC when they introduced 
SPF/SE. As indicated previously, I did not at all like SPF/SE, so I 
stuck with SPF/PRO.


Since SPF/PRO is orphaned, you cannot get it from CTC, and if you, 
like me, have a legacy copy, you have to put up with a couple of 
annoying bugs that CTC refuses to fix.


Since SPF/PRO has met (and continues to meet) my needs both as a file 
managed, as a blazingly fast searching tool and as a text editor, I 
have not extensively investigated alternatives.


Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:   dbc...@colesoft.com 


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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[John McKown]

I have _no_ desire to obtain SPF/PRO or any other Windows software. I was
just curious how much of ISPF it actually mirrors. Only the editor?
Editor+macros (what macro languages?)? Complete Display Manager?


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Dave Cole dbc...@gmail.com wrote:

 At 10/30/2013 09:40 AM, John McKown wrote:

 Being a Linux bigot (only use Windows at work), I am wondering if there is
 any documentation on SPFPRO or other ISPF-like environments. In
 particular,
 do these products emulate all of ISPF or only the ISPF editor? Can the
 editor run macros? If so, only REXX or can it use other scripting
 facilities such as Windows command scripts or maybe even some other
 scripting language?


 John,

 Unfortunately, SPF/PRO was orphaned by CTC when they introduced SPF/SE. As
 indicated previously, I did not at all like SPF/SE, so I stuck with SPF/PRO.

 Since SPF/PRO is orphaned, you cannot get it from CTC, and if you, like
 me, have a legacy copy, you have to put up with a couple of annoying bugs
 that CTC refuses to fix.

 Since SPF/PRO has met (and continues to meet) my needs both as a file
 managed, as a blazingly fast searching tool and as a text editor, I have
 not extensively investigated alternatives.

 Dave Cole
 ColeSoft Marketing
 414 Third Street, NE
 Charlottesville, VA 22902
 EADDRESS:   dbc...@colesoft.com
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-- 
This is clearly another case of too many mad scientists, and not enough
hunchbacks.

Maranatha! 
John McKown

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AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Michael Knigge]

 I have _no_ desire to obtain SPF/PRO or any other Windows software. I was
 just curious how much of ISPF it actually mirrors. Only the editor?
 Editor+macros (what macro languages?)? Complete Display Manager?

SPF/SE is just an editor. The macro language is a C-like language (not Rexx). 
Further more, you can load self written DLLs from the macro language and invoke 
funtions of that DLL.

Uni-spf tries to emulate (more or less) ISPF under UNIX. It contains an 
ispf-like environment (so you can write your own panels etc), a Rexx 
Interpreter and an ISPF-Like Editor.

SPFLite is just an Editor. It has no macro language (but you can write a 
filter - you can pass the editor content to a filter and the output of the 
filter becomes the new editor content). This is far less powerfull as a real 
macro language from which you can access every single char/byte of the file in 
the editor.

A free ISPF-like editor is Hybrid Editor XE 
(http://www.geocities.jp/sakachin2/index.htm). I tried it - and disliked it. 
:-(  But: Impressive is the number of platforms it works on: DOS, OS/2, 
Windows, AIX, Linux and (no joke!) Android

Do not even think about trying THE (http://hessling-editor.sourceforge.net/). 
Okay, it supports Rexx, but it does not really feel like the editor under ISPF 
(ok, to be fair, it is a XEDIT-like editor that can be configured like the 
ISPF-editor - but not really well)



My personal favorite is SPF/SE. I need no Rexx - and the C-Like maco language 
is ok! I use it a lot. There are some gotchas with the editor, the installation 
is far away from Windows standards and the author is sometimes a little bit 
picky about what is a bug and what is the expected behavior But mostly we 
find a solution for a problem that I've found... But hey, I'm waiting for 
customizable EBCDIC/ASCII Translation tables since Decembre 2008 ;- German 
Umlauts are lost with the built in original IBM 370 EBCDIC-Codepage


Bye,
Michael

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[David Crayford]

On 30/10/2013 9:55 PM, Dave Cole wrote:

At 10/30/2013 09:40 AM, John McKown wrote:
Being a Linux bigot (only use Windows at work), I am wondering if 
there is
any documentation on SPFPRO or other ISPF-like environments. In 
particular,

do these products emulate all of ISPF or only the ISPF editor? Can the
editor run macros? If so, only REXX or can it use other scripting
facilities such as Windows command scripts or maybe even some other
scripting language?


John,

Unfortunately, SPF/PRO was orphaned by CTC when they introduced 
SPF/SE. As indicated previously, I did not at all like SPF/SE, so I 
stuck with SPF/PRO.


Since SPF/PRO is orphaned, you cannot get it from CTC, and if you, 
like me, have a legacy copy, you have to put up with a couple of 
annoying bugs that CTC refuses to fix.


Since SPF/PRO has met (and continues to meet) my needs both as a file 
managed, as a blazingly fast searching tool and as a text editor, I 
have not extensively investigated alternatives.


Slickedit has an ISPF emulation mode with line commands and a command 
line. It's my editor of choice and has a plethora of blistering fast 
search options, including incremental
search. I set it up for a colleague who uses SPF/PRO for coding 
assembler. I created a customized project for the Tachyon assembler 
tool-chain. IIRC, there were some minor differences in some of the key 
bindings
and that was a game changer for him. Because it wasn't exactly the same 
as SPF he wouldn't use it. I switched to the standard CUA emulation 
pretty much straight away because I found it more productive than 
issuing line
commands but it's not so easy for guys that have been using ISPF for 
over 30 years.




Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:   dbc...@colesoft.com
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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
d13168079720cd45a71005fdcc22426f415e3...@retdaymbxp007.legal.regn.net,
on 10/29/2013
   at 12:26 PM, Klan, Rob (RET-DAY) rob.k...@reedelsevier.com
said:

Which is the most ISPF like?

ObColdDeadFingers Tritus SPF.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Michael Knigge]

Steve,

I don't know what's wrong with SPFPRO on Win 8, but maybe it is time for a 
change. You may want to have a look at SPF/365 (well known as SPF/SE) that is 
now selled at a much more reduced price. The subscription for one year is at 25 
$ US (you can use it after the year, but you get no more updates and no 
support)...

See http://www.commandtechnology.com/


In my optinion it is much better than SPFLite (http://spflite.co.nr/) (because 
of the integrated Macro language - I use it a lot!) which is selled at 25 $ US, 
too. I personally use SPF/SE with the font of Tom Brennan's Vista TN3270 and it 
looks so fu* great ;-)

Bye,
Michael

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Steve Thompson]

digest entry

From:Steve Comstock



Has anybody gotten SPFPRO to run on Windows 8.1 (or

even 8.0, for that matter)?



Looks like I'll have to give up one of my favorite tools.
SNIPPAGE

Steve et al:

Because of problems I get when updating Windows, I generally run Windows under 
VMware on a Linux Host (in my case, almost always a Suse release). Driver 
problems seem to be minimal, applications that I'm locked into work. And data 
can be shared so that I can use tools from either system...

That said, I upgraded to Suse 12.3. I had been at 11.4 and as I recall, it 
worked under Wine. I haven't yet tried SPFPRO on 12.3 under Wine.

I don't have W8 on any system at this point.

Meanwhile, SPF/SE 3.0 works fine under Wine and on W7.

You may find that Linux as your base OS works well...

Regards,
Steve Thompson

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which 
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and may contain CONFIDENTIAL material.  If you receive this 
material/information in error,
please contact the sender and delete or destroy the material/information.

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Klan, Rob (RET-DAY)]

Hi 

Which is the most ISPF like?

In reviewing Dave'ss page at: http://www.planetmvs.com/spfeditor/ I also learn 
of uni-SPF by http://www.wrkgrp.com/index.html ?

Just curious 



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Michael Knigge
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 5:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

Steve,

I don't know what's wrong with SPFPRO on Win 8, but maybe it is time for a 
change. You may want to have a look at SPF/365 (well known as SPF/SE) that is 
now selled at a much more reduced price. The subscription for one year is at 25 
$ US (you can use it after the year, but you get no more updates and no 
support)...

See http://www.commandtechnology.com/


In my optinion it is much better than SPFLite (http://spflite.co.nr/) (because 
of the integrated Macro language - I use it a lot!) which is selled at 25 $ US, 
too. I personally use SPF/SE with the font of Tom Brennan's Vista TN3270 and it 
looks so fu* great ;-)

Bye,
Michael

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Lance D. Jackson]

Sorry - when I originally replied to Steve's question, I didn't realize that he 
was running such a dated version of SPFPC. I'm successfully running SPF/SE v6.0 
Graphic Edition under Win 8.0



-Original Message-
From: Klan, Rob (RET-DAY) [mailto:rob.k...@reedelsevier.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 08:26 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

Hi Which is the most ISPF like?In reviewing Dave'ss page at: 
http://www.planetmvs.com/spfeditor/ I also learn of uni-SPF by 
http://www.wrkgrp.com/index.html ?Just curious -Original Message-From: 
IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of 
Michael KniggeSent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 5:19 AMTo: 
ibm-m...@listserv.ua.EDUSubject: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 
8.1Steve,I don't know what's wrong with SPFPRO on Win 8, but maybe it is time 
for a change. You may want to have a look at SPF/365 (well known as SPF/SE) 
that is now selled at a much more reduced price. The subscription for one year 
is at 25 $ US (you can use it after the year, but you get no more updates and 
no support)...See http://www.commandtechnology.com/In my optinion it is much 
better than SPFLite (http://spflite.co.nr/) (because of the integrated Macro 
language - I use it a lot!) which is selled at 25 $ US, too. I personally use 
SPF/SE with the font of Tom Brennan's Vista TN3270 and it looks so fu* 
great 
;-)Bye,Michael--For
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AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Michael Knigge]

Rob,

uni-SPF is much more like ISPF than SPF/SE - due to the fact that SPF/SE is 
missing REXX

Bye,
Michael

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Re: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Lance D. Jackson]

Thanks for that insight Michael.

-Original Message-
From: Michael Knigge [mailto:michael.kni...@set-software.de]
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 09:00 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

Rob,uni-SPF is much more like ISPF than SPF/SE - due to the fact that SPF/SE is 
missing 
REXXBye,Michael--For
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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Graham Hobbs]

Is the macro language still C?

- Original Message - 
From: Michael Knigge michael.kni...@set-software.de

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 5:18 AM
Subject: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1


Steve,

I don't know what's wrong with SPFPRO on Win 8, but maybe it is time for a 
change. You may want to have a look at SPF/365 (well known as SPF/SE) that 
is now selled at a much more reduced price. The subscription for one year is 
at 25 $ US (you can use it after the year, but you get no more updates and 
no support)...


See http://www.commandtechnology.com/


In my optinion it is much better than SPFLite (http://spflite.co.nr/) 
(because of the integrated Macro language - I use it a lot!) which is selled 
at 25 $ US, too. I personally use SPF/SE with the font of Tom Brennan's 
Vista TN3270 and it looks so fu* great ;-)


Bye,
Michael

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Clark Morris]

On 29 Oct 2013 05:28:29 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

Hi 

Which is the most ISPF like?

In reviewing Dave'ss page at: http://www.planetmvs.com/spfeditor/ I also learn 
of uni-SPF by http://www.wrkgrp.com/index.html ?

My recollection of UNI-SPF on HP-UX in 2001-2002 is that it was a
mediocre replacement for ISPF/PDF.  I would hope there is better.  I
also believe that for the purpose intended at that shop, supported MVS
applications ported HP-UX and UNI-CICS with Micro-Focus COBOL,
Easytrieve and SYNCSORT, they would have been better off looking at
tools native to the environment as an upgrade to UNI-SPF.

Clark Morris

Just curious 



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
Behalf Of Michael Knigge
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 5:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

Steve,

I don't know what's wrong with SPFPRO on Win 8, but maybe it is time for a 
change. You may want to have a look at SPF/365 (well known as SPF/SE) that is 
now selled at a much more reduced price. The subscription for one year is at 
25 $ US (you can use it after the year, but you get no more updates and no 
support)...

See http://www.commandtechnology.com/


In my optinion it is much better than SPFLite (http://spflite.co.nr/) (because 
of the integrated Macro language - I use it a lot!) which is selled at 25 $ 
US, too. I personally use SPF/SE with the font of Tom Brennan's Vista TN3270 
and it looks so fu* great ;-)

Bye,
Michael

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Steve Comstock]

On 10/28/2013 4:15 PM, Dan Skomsky wrote:

I have it running Win 98 mode on Windows 7 Pro 32 bit and tried it
successfully on the Windows 8 pre-release 32 bit.


Hmm. No luck on win 8.1 64-bit.

-Steve



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Steve Comstock
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 5:04 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

Has anybody gotten SPFPRO to run on Windows 8.1 (or
even 8.0, for that matter)?

Looks like I'll have to give up one of my favorite tools.

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Steve Comstock]

On 10/28/2013 11:42 PM, Brian Westerman wrote:

Steve,

I realize that this isn't exactly the answer you wanted, but While I can get my 
copy to work on Windows 8.1 (I run it in compatibility mode by right clicking 
on the executable and choose the compatibility option), I have (as of a couple 
years ago), moved to SPFLITE (http://www.spflite.com).  It supports all 
versions of Windows.  And if you like it you can license a copy for (I think) 
$25.

It's not a bad replacement for CTC's SPF and it's well maintained.  If there 
are any options that you need that aren't there, the author is really good 
about adding things.  I only keep the CTC stuff around now because I'm too 
careful to throw anything out.  I don't get the same problem you are having 
with the CTC code though, maybe you damaged a module somewhere or maybe it's 
just the compatibility stuff that you need to do.

Brian

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I'll have a look at it.

Thanks.

-Steve

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Re: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Steve Comstock]

On 10/29/2013 3:18 AM, Michael Knigge wrote:

Steve,

I don't know what's wrong with SPFPRO on Win 8, but maybe it is time for a 
change. You may want to have a look at SPF/365 (well known as SPF/SE) that is 
now selled at a much more reduced price. The subscription for one year is at 25 
$ US (you can use it after the year, but you get no more updates and no 
support)...

See http://www.commandtechnology.com/


In my optinion it is much better than SPFLite (http://spflite.co.nr/) (because 
of the integrated Macro language - I use it a lot!) which is selled at 25 $ US, 
too. I personally use SPF/SE with the font of Tom Brennan's Vista TN3270 and it 
looks so fu* great ;-)

Bye,
Michael

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Thanks, Michael,

I'll have a look at it.

Kind regards,

-Steve

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[slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Steve Comstock]

Has anybody gotten SPFPRO to run on Windows 8.1 (or
even 8.0, for that matter)?

Looks like I'll have to give up one of my favorite tools.

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Lance D. Jackson]

Steve,


It runs just fine on my Win 8.0 machine. What issues are you having?

-Original Message-
From: Steve Comstock [mailto:st...@trainersfriend.com]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 06:04 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

Has anybody gotten SPFPRO to run on Windows 8.1 (oreven 8.0, for that 
matter)?Looks like I'll have to give up one of my favorite tools.Kind 
regards,-Steve 
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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Steve Comstock]

On 10/28/2013 7:28 PM, Lance D. Jackson wrote:

Steve,


It runs just fine on my Win 8.0 machine. What issues are you having?

-Original Message-
From: Steve Comstock [mailto:st...@trainersfriend.com]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 06:04 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

Has anybody gotten SPFPRO to run on Windows 8.1 (oreven 8.0, for that 
matter)?Looks like I'll have to give up one of my favorite tools.Kind 
regards,-Steve 
Comstock--For
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Well, first I simply copied over the directory containing the
program files to my new system. I set up the program properties
to run in compatibilty mode for Win XP SP 3. When I launch the
progam I get two phenomema:

1) I get prompted if it's OK for this program to make
   changes to this computer - I reply Yes

2) then I get a system error that the program can't
   start because SPW32DM.DLL is missing from the
   computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix the
   problem

   [Note: all the DLLs are in the directory containing
all the SPFPRO files]


---

Now, I have not been successful running any install program
from this directory; there are very few candidates:

PATCH.EXE
PDSUTIL.EXE
PRFUPGDW.EXE
SETUP.EXE
SPFECHO.EXE
Spfpro.exe
SPW32THK.EXE
UPG50.EXE
UPGRADE.BAT
VOL.EXE

When I try any of these (except Spfpro.exe which is described
above) I get This App can't run on your PC

--

I notice the properties for the icon I use to launch Spfpro.exe
says the program is located in C:\Users\SteveComstock\Desktop
but I actually put everything in C:\SPFPRO, so that's a mystery.

Any suggestions?


Thanks.

-Steve

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Re: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

[Brian Westerman]

Steve,

I realize that this isn't exactly the answer you wanted, but While I can get my 
copy to work on Windows 8.1 (I run it in compatibility mode by right clicking 
on the executable and choose the compatibility option), I have (as of a couple 
years ago), moved to SPFLITE (http://www.spflite.com).  It supports all 
versions of Windows.  And if you like it you can license a copy for (I think) 
$25. 

It's not a bad replacement for CTC's SPF and it's well maintained.  If there 
are any options that you need that aren't there, the author is really good 
about adding things.  I only keep the CTC stuff around now because I'm too 
careful to throw anything out.  I don't get the same problem you are having 
with the CTC code though, maybe you damaged a module somewhere or maybe it's 
just the compatibility stuff that you need to do.

Brian

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Re: Off-topic was: IBM-MAIN Digest - 25 Oct 2012 to 26 Oct 2012 - Unfinished

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
of3a82ef31.c1ef030d-on86257aa9.00560c32-86257aa9.00563...@assurant.com,
on 11/01/2012
   at 10:41 AM, Darth Keller darth.kel...@assurant.com said:

BURP?

Batch Uncache Request Protocol?

-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: CBT File745 (File Formatter aka OS) - Off topic

[Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4)]

We could be the topside of the planet!

Richard Marchant
Johannesburg

Reminds me that whenever I read that the world will go under at this or that 
date, I'm not becoming scared. 
In order to be able to go under you first need to know which side is up! 
Fortunately we do not exactly know ;-)

--
Peter Hunkeler

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Re: CBT File745 (File Formatter aka OS) - Off topic

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Peter Hunkeler wrote:
 
Reminds me that whenever I read that the world will go under at this or that 
date, I'm not becoming scared.  
In order to be able to go under you first need to know which side is up! 
Fortunately we do not exactly know ;-) 

That is a big relief! ;-) 

Your remarks remind me of this little joke in one of Tintin books:

The pirate captain and his crew locks up poor captain Haddock with these words:

'Sleep tight, do you sleep with your beard above or under the blanket?'

Of course Haddock could not get to sleep because he was trying to figure out 
where his beard should be... ;-)

Is it already Friday? ;-)

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Off topic

[Scott Ford]

Has anyone has messages disappear when the sent them to the listserv ?

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

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Re: Off topic

[Ed Finnell]

There's some pretty nasty malware going around, supposed to strike 'Monday' 
 whenever that is. Usually run with ACK as listserv option and the server  
will
confirm receipt. Course iffin it's in Estonia where it's routed may not  
mean much
 
 
In a message dated 7/7/2012 5:05:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
scott_j_f...@yahoo.com writes:

Has  anyone has messages disappear when the sent them to the listserv  ?



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Re: Off topic

[Steve Comstock]

On 7/7/2012 4:21 PM, Ed Finnell wrote:

There's some pretty nasty malware going around, supposed to strike 'Monday'
  whenever that is. Usually run with ACK as listserv option and the server
will
confirm receipt. Course iffin it's in Estonia where it's routed may not
mean much


I've heard snippits about this. Is there any believable
source for the story?





In a message dated 7/7/2012 5:05:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
scott_j_f...@yahoo.com writes:

Has  anyone has messages disappear when the sent them to the listserv  ?



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Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-355-2752
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
  + Training your people is an excellent investment

* Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment
for training dollars at
  http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html

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Re: Off topic

[Lloyd Fuller]

Yes.  I do not remember the name of the malware, but it redirected DNS to a 
hijacked one.  The US FBI set up a clone of the hijacked DNS server and have 
been running it to take away the malware power for better than a year.  The 
reason for the Monday deadline is that is when the FBI is shutting down the 
cloned DNS server.

Check Wired and Ars Technica.  They have been had articles about it within the 
past month or so.

Lloyd



- Original Message 
From: Steve Comstock st...@trainersfriend.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Sat, July 7, 2012 6:26:08 PM
Subject: Re: Off topic

On 7/7/2012 4:21 PM, Ed Finnell wrote:
 There's some pretty nasty malware going around, supposed to strike 'Monday'
   whenever that is. Usually run with ACK as listserv option and the server
 will
 confirm receipt. Course iffin it's in Estonia where it's routed may not
 mean much

I've heard snippits about this. Is there any believable
source for the story?




 In a message dated 7/7/2012 5:05:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
 scott_j_f...@yahoo.com writes:

 Has  anyone has messages disappear when the sent them to the listserv  ?


-- 

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-355-2752
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
   + Training your people is an excellent investment

* Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment
 for training dollars at
   http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html

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