Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Mick Graley]

I (used to) do something similar with a few added steps:

DFDSS dump the whole SMP/E environment
ACCEPT CHECK
ACCEPT
RECEIVE
APPLY CHECK (there are sometimes system holds that need addressing before
APPLY and this gets the report out as well as doing the APPLY CHECK)
APPLY

It's probably worth noting that I'm a DB2 SysProg/DBA rather than a z/OS
SysProg.
The z/OS boys do all the SMP/E work in my current shop.

Cheers,

Mick.


On 24 May 2018 at 05:11, Ed Jaffe  wrote:

> On 5/23/2018 9:30 AM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
>
>> Open any IBM doc on SMP(/E) ever published and you will find the same
>> canonical procedure:
>>
>> --RECEIVE
>> --APPLY
>> --ACCEPT (maybe hold off on this a while, but resolve to do it eventually)
>>
>
> FWIW, I always do it this way:
> --ACCEPT
> --RECEIVE
> --APPLY
>
> --
> Phoenix Software International
> Edward E. Jaffe
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
> 
> 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Longabaugh, Robert E]

From an ISV standpoint, we come across this from time to time.  I suppose that 
this is to avoid the chance of needing to back out to a level earlier than they 
accepted.   However, at times the distribution zone for our product winds up 
lower than the level needed to support the z/OS currently in their site.  

Bob Longabaugh
CA Technologies
Storage Management


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 1:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of CA. Do not click links or open 
attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


VSAM came out in the same time frame as SMP, Yes, pre-ICF VSAM had some issues, 
but the way that SMP misused member name was a true gargoyle.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mason.gmu.edu_-7Esmetz3=DwIGaQ=_hRq4mqlUmqpqlyQ5hkoDXIVh6I6pxfkkNxQuL0p-Z0=_pjUpH7SxKBkB6gBZH_r7a7W1q59Nzy5lPxFUOMH-UM=Qtc7CRLhR62m9Vglr6iyfbkAN62o5ohE_t06AvB1jyg=_iP0gQfCrV5cvBwSr_aeLuT6mLZoVSd29bf9vk1_rng=


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Jesse 1 Robinson <jesse1.robin...@sce.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 5:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

Pre-E SMP consisted entirely of PDS--PO because PDSE had not been invented yet. 
It was, as someone pointed out, a sort of elaborate RYO data base. In those 
days of molasses-inspired SLED, clunky CPUs, limited expensive central memory, 
and a far less sophisticated MVS than we enjoy today, a 'standard' SMP install 
could take forever. Hours. Days. Longer even than the MTTF of the 
infrastructure itself.

So SMP provided an alternative run mode. I forget the terminology, but it 
entailed reading entire PDS directories into memory, updating data in memory as 
required, then writing entire directories back out in one massive operation. 
The result was a far shorter elapsed time than the standard mode. Unless. 
Unless something went wrong, especially during the write-out phase. Could be a 
program failure; DASD error; power hiccup, spilled cup of coffee. At that point 
the entire SMP data base was trashed. So you restored the whole SMP environment 
and started over.

With or without ACCEPT, modern SMP/E is a miracle.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never 
ACCEPT?

>SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

No. Read what I actually wrote. The configuration information for an SMP4 or 
earlier environment is in multiple data sets, of which the CDS is only one. The 
CDS is the equivalent of a target zone, not of the entire CSI, and the manual 
you cited does not claim otherwise.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mason.gmu.edu_-7Esmetz3=DwIGaQ=_hRq4mqlUmqpqlyQ5hkoDXIVh6I6pxfkkNxQuL0p-Z0=_pjUpH7SxKBkB6gBZH_r7a7W1q59Nzy5lPxFUOMH-UM=Qtc7CRLhR62m9Vglr6iyfbkAN62o5ohE_t06AvB1jyg=_iP0gQfCrV5cvBwSr_aeLuT6mLZoVSd29bf9vk1_rng=


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 18:55:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
>CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
>
SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30 ... appears to say otherwise:

The consolidated software inventory (CSI)
The CSI data sets contain all the information SMP/E needs to
track the distribution and target libraries. As the card catalog
contains a card for each book in the library, the CSI contains
an entry for each element in its libraries. The CSI entries
contain the element name, type, history, how the element was
introduced into the system, and a pointer to the element in the
distribution and target libraries.*The*CSI*does*not*contain*the
*element*itself*, but rather a description of the element it
represents
[emphasis added]

This seems to use "CSI" to refer to the VSAM data sets, but not t

Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

VSAM came out in the same time frame as SMP, Yes, pre-ICF VSAM had some issues, 
but the way that SMP misused member name was a true gargoyle.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Jesse 1 Robinson <jesse1.robin...@sce.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 5:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

Pre-E SMP consisted entirely of PDS--PO because PDSE had not been invented yet. 
It was, as someone pointed out, a sort of elaborate RYO data base. In those 
days of molasses-inspired SLED, clunky CPUs, limited expensive central memory, 
and a far less sophisticated MVS than we enjoy today, a 'standard' SMP install 
could take forever. Hours. Days. Longer even than the MTTF of the 
infrastructure itself.

So SMP provided an alternative run mode. I forget the terminology, but it 
entailed reading entire PDS directories into memory, updating data in memory as 
required, then writing entire directories back out in one massive operation. 
The result was a far shorter elapsed time than the standard mode. Unless. 
Unless something went wrong, especially during the write-out phase. Could be a 
program failure; DASD error; power hiccup, spilled cup of coffee. At that point 
the entire SMP data base was trashed. So you restored the whole SMP environment 
and started over.

With or without ACCEPT, modern SMP/E is a miracle.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never 
ACCEPT?

>SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

No. Read what I actually wrote. The configuration information for an SMP4 or 
earlier environment is in multiple data sets, of which the CDS is only one. The 
CDS is the equivalent of a target zone, not of the entire CSI, and the manual 
you cited does not claim otherwise.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 18:55:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
>CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
>
SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30 ... appears to say otherwise:

The consolidated software inventory (CSI)
The CSI data sets contain all the information SMP/E needs to
track the distribution and target libraries. As the card catalog
contains a card for each book in the library, the CSI contains
an entry for each element in its libraries. The CSI entries
contain the element name, type, history, how the element was
introduced into the system, and a pointer to the element in the
distribution and target libraries.*The*CSI*does*not*contain*the
*element*itself*, but rather a description of the element it
represents
[emphasis added]

This seems to use "CSI" to refer to the VSAM data sets, but not to PDSes that 
contain actual elements.

-- gil


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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

IBM renamed  IMAPTFLE to HMAPTFLE for OS/VS1 and to AMAPTFLE for OS/VS2. See 
<http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/370/OS_VS2/Release_1_1972/GC28-0633-1_OS_VS_Service_Aids_Sep72.pdf>.
 It was a far cry from SMP, e.g., no prerequisite or supersede processing.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Mike Hochee <mike.hoc...@aspg.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 12:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

Yes, definitely something like that... AMAPTFLE.  It was mentioned in this 
NaSPA article as an SMP predecessor... 
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Tn5K0ThpWxgRGk9zMU6qHUUN9h6yTOzRrG-9Vin1D-Tc2SNRcR90wQROU-DJCj79QRy0gnfYafR8zslqpwow_-j6QXNbLlQjyoClPiGUXr-KzCUk99srwowPcVCBaavxZGx1UYq2eReyQREPwQ5FeUSXkuOGZgooiDmOacs97HY_GtMZ_qDiuQ-_WYUWL72PvJ45W-6tHNfOxwQKtjw0UJXLEpOEgVXArDBhYoTX8FZTZxcXa3zSEiPh0H-2cTqUQQkOsCSjOoCtfR8npVvAlCysgXepWh1mn0GpnayWpTdLqdEps-aS9E-i0QPVgvDPIP-WqRl256lSTA5mhffPDkswnRQD-yr9zEYGrbYp1-pyUU4bLj3zwMEo52YXLrQQ4m-4HWABJSl-ENNEAyDSudL-lxkTd6T7gOqv_heI9FfkNtpzPIo2zADpTIQ8JO5p/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naspa.net%2Fmagazine%2F2005%2F0705%2FT0507009.pdf

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 12:00 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

I personally used SMP in 1975 on a S/360 running MFT.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2018, at 8:29 PM, Edward Gould <edgould1...@comcast.net> wrote:

>> On May 23, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Gerhard Adam <gada...@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> SMP was available in MVT and MFT.  It did not begin with MVS
>
> I beg to differ. But I was new to the job and our senior sysprog did maint 
> with another IBM program (which I do not remember but it was NOT SMP but 
> something like iebptfle or something like that.
> Someone else, please confirm.
>
> Ed
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

?

You admit that you were not familiar with the background.

IBM carried forward AMAPTFLE 
<https://ia801902.us.archive.org/15/items/bitsavers_ibm360osR2rviceAidsRel21Mar72_14344562/GC28-6719-2_Service_Aids_Rel_21_Mar72.pdf>
 under the name AMAPTFLE, but it did not do what SMP did., or anything close. 
You can't even install a PTF that affects multiple target libraries, much less 
track dependencies.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Edward Gould <edgould1...@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

> On May 23, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Gerhard Adam <gada...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> SMP was available in MVT and MFT.  It did not begin with MVS

I beg to differ. But I was new to the job and our senior sysprog did maint with 
another IBM program (which I do not remember but it was NOT SMP but something 
like iebptfle or something like that.
Someone else, please confirm.

Ed


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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[David L. Craig]

On 18May23:2100-0700, Gerhard Adam wrote:

> I personally used SMP in 1975 on a S/360 running MFT.

And as I said initially, I learned it on MVT (about a year
later than Gerhart).  And I am very glad I missed pre-SMP
OS/360 maintenance.
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Mike Hochee]

Yes, definitely something like that... AMAPTFLE.  It was mentioned in this 
NaSPA article as an SMP predecessor... 
http://www.naspa.net/magazine/2005/0705/T0507009.pdf   

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 12:00 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

I personally used SMP in 1975 on a S/360 running MFT.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2018, at 8:29 PM, Edward Gould <edgould1...@comcast.net> wrote:

>> On May 23, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Gerhard Adam <gada...@charter.net> wrote:
>> 
>> SMP was available in MVT and MFT.  It did not begin with MVS
> 
> I beg to differ. But I was new to the job and our senior sysprog did maint 
> with another IBM program (which I do not remember but it was NOT SMP but 
> something like iebptfle or something like that.
> Someone else, please confirm.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Ed Jaffe]

On 5/23/2018 9:30 AM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

Open any IBM doc on SMP(/E) ever published and you will find the same canonical 
procedure:

--RECEIVE
--APPLY
--ACCEPT (maybe hold off on this a while, but resolve to do it eventually)


FWIW, I always do it this way:
--ACCEPT
--RECEIVE
--APPLY

--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
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recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Gerhard Adam]

I personally used SMP in 1975 on a S/360 running MFT.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2018, at 8:29 PM, Edward Gould  wrote:

>> On May 23, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Gerhard Adam  wrote:
>> 
>> SMP was available in MVT and MFT.  It did not begin with MVS
> 
> I beg to differ. But I was new to the job and our senior sysprog did maint 
> with another IBM program (which I do not remember but it was NOT SMP but 
> something like iebptfle or something like that.
> Someone else, please confirm.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Edward Gould]

> On May 23, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Gerhard Adam  wrote:
> 
> SMP was available in MVT and MFT.  It did not begin with MVS

I beg to differ. But I was new to the job and our senior sysprog did maint with 
another IBM program (which I do not remember but it was NOT SMP but something 
like iebptfle or something like that.
Someone else, please confirm.

Ed


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Pre-E SMP consisted entirely of PDS--PO because PDSE had not been invented yet. 
It was, as someone pointed out, a sort of elaborate RYO data base. In those 
days of molasses-inspired SLED, clunky CPUs, limited expensive central memory, 
and a far less sophisticated MVS than we enjoy today, a 'standard' SMP install 
could take forever. Hours. Days. Longer even than the MTTF of the 
infrastructure itself. 

So SMP provided an alternative run mode. I forget the terminology, but it 
entailed reading entire PDS directories into memory, updating data in memory as 
required, then writing entire directories back out in one massive operation. 
The result was a far shorter elapsed time than the standard mode. Unless. 
Unless something went wrong, especially during the write-out phase. Could be a 
program failure; DASD error; power hiccup, spilled cup of coffee. At that point 
the entire SMP data base was trashed. So you restored the whole SMP environment 
and started over.

With or without ACCEPT, modern SMP/E is a miracle.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never 
ACCEPT?

>SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

No. Read what I actually wrote. The configuration information for an SMP4 or 
earlier environment is in multiple data sets, of which the CDS is only one. The 
CDS is the equivalent of a target zone, not of the entire CSI, and the manual 
you cited does not claim otherwise.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 18:55:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
>CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
>
SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30 ... appears to say otherwise:

The consolidated software inventory (CSI)
The CSI data sets contain all the information SMP/E needs to
track the distribution and target libraries. As the card catalog
contains a card for each book in the library, the CSI contains
an entry for each element in its libraries. The CSI entries
contain the element name, type, history, how the element was
introduced into the system, and a pointer to the element in the
distribution and target libraries.*The*CSI*does*not*contain*the
*element*itself*, but rather a description of the element it
represents
[emphasis added]

This seems to use "CSI" to refer to the VSAM data sets, but not to PDSes that 
contain actual elements.

-- gil


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

>SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

No. Read what I actually wrote. The configuration information for an SMP4 or 
earlier environment is in multiple data sets, of which the CDS is only one. The 
CDS is the equivalent of a target zone, not of the entire CSI, and the manual 
you cited does not claim otherwise.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 18:55:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
>CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
>
SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

The consolidated software inventory (CSI)
The CSI data sets contain all the information SMP/E needs to
track the distribution and target libraries. As the card catalog
contains a card for each book in the library, the CSI contains
an entry for each element in its libraries. The CSI entries
contain the element name, type, history, how the element was
introduced into the system, and a pointer to the element in the
distribution and target libraries.*The*CSI*does*not*contain*the
*element*itself*, but rather a description of the element it
represents
[emphasis added]

This seems to use "CSI" to refer to the VSAM data sets, but not to PDSes that
contain actual elements.

-- gil

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Tom Marchant]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 09:55:04 -0700, Gerhard Adam wrote:

>Why bother?  Do a RESTORE GROUP CHECK and get that information.

No, GROUP doesn't work that way with RESTORE.


assume you have applied two PTFs, and one defines the other as the 
prerequisite. When you select the prerequisite and specify the GROUP 
operand, SMP/E also tries to restore the other PTF. On the other hand, 
if you select the SYSMOD that specifies the prerequisite, SMP/E 
restores that particular SYSMOD only if the prerequisite has been 
accepted.


-- 
Tom Marchant

>> On May 23, 2018, at 9:08 AM, Tom Marchant 
>> <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> If I want to restore PTF A and RESTORE CHECK tells me that it can't 
>> RESTORE it because PTFs B, C, and D have not been ACCEPTed, I can 
>> run ACCEPT CHECK on B, C, and D. That should give me a list of all the 
>> PTFs that also need to be RESTOREd in order to RESTORE A.

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 18:55:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
>CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
>
SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

The consolidated software inventory (CSI)
The CSI data sets contain all the information SMP/E needs to
track the distribution and target libraries. As the card catalog
contains a card for each book in the library, the CSI contains
an entry for each element in its libraries. The CSI entries
contain the element name, type, history, how the element was
introduced into the system, and a pointer to the element in the
distribution and target libraries.*The*CSI*does*not*contain*the
*element*itself*, but rather a description of the element it 
represents
[emphasis added]

This seems to use "CSI" to refer to the VSAM data sets, but not to PDSes that
contain actual elements.

-- gil

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Gerhard Adam]

If I remember, the PTS still held the sysmods and the ACDS was for the 
distribution "zone" equivalent.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 11:55 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote:
> 
> The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
> CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
> 
> 
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
> Nims,Alva John (Al) <ajn...@ufl.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:50 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
> Yes, that was my mistake, I should have said the predecessor to the CSI was 
> the CDS, a PDS data set with that funny character in the member name.
> 
> Al Nims
> Systems Admin/Programmer III
> UF Information Technology
> East Campus
> P.O. Box 112050
> Gainesville, FL. 32611
> (e) ajn...@ufl.edu
> (p) (352) 273-1298
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:40 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
>> On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:05:29 -0700, Gerhard Adam wrote:
>> 
>> I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played
>> the role of the current CSI
>> 
> The rumor I heard (I wasn't there) is that, prior to VSAM, SMP used a PDS 
> directory as a makeshift data base.  Names of members (which needn't actually 
> exist) were limited to 7 bytes in order that the eighth could be used for 
> flags.
> 
> -- gil
> 
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Nims,Alva John (Al) <ajn...@ufl.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

Yes, that was my mistake, I should have said the predecessor to the CSI was the 
CDS, a PDS data set with that funny character in the member name.

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer III
UF Information Technology
East Campus
P.O. Box 112050
Gainesville, FL. 32611
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu
(p) (352) 273-1298

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:05:29 -0700, Gerhard Adam wrote:

>I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played
>the role of the current CSI
>
The rumor I heard (I wasn't there) is that, prior to VSAM, SMP used a PDS 
directory as a makeshift data base.  Names of members (which needn't actually 
exist) were limited to 7 bytes in order that the eighth could be used for flags.

-- gil

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Edward Gould]

> On May 23, 2018, at 9:08 AM, David L. Craig  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the
>> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while /
>> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't
>> had a published PTF yet.
> 
> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still
> here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while
> it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall
> ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots
> of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much
> faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance.  That also
> requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot
> associations, which are not necessarily based upon the
> dates of the snapshots.

AFAIK smp (e)  did not exist during mvs 2.0 3.0(shakes on this one) and it came 
out with 3.7 (?)
Before smp there was tremendous and I do mean tremendous working by having to 
manually to the co, prerec's by hand. It was drudge work that needed a high 
amount of concentration and immersion.
I did it once and couldn’t handle the long hours needed. We printed a 
spreadsheet and it helped a little but still took copious amounts of time.
SMP was a godsend to sysprogs. I would venture to say that  MVS would have 
ended up in the dust pile for computer history without SMP. Yes it was 
cumbersome and the PDS’s needed and large number of directories was a real 
pain. VSAM saved SMP as well.
Ed

 


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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Nims,Alva John (Al)]

Yes, that was my mistake, I should have said the predecessor to the CSI was the 
CDS, a PDS data set with that funny character in the member name.

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer III
UF Information Technology
East Campus 
P.O. Box 112050
Gainesville, FL. 32611
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu 
(p) (352) 273-1298

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:05:29 -0700, Gerhard Adam wrote:

>I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played 
>the role of the current CSI
> 
The rumor I heard (I wasn't there) is that, prior to VSAM, SMP used a PDS 
directory as a makeshift data base.  Names of members (which needn't actually 
exist) were limited to 7 bytes in order that the eighth could be used for flags.

-- gil

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:05:29 -0700, Gerhard Adam wrote:

>I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played the role 
>of the current CSI
> 
The rumor I heard (I wasn't there) is that, prior to VSAM, SMP used a PDS 
directory
as a makeshift data base.  Names of members (which needn't actually exist) were
limited to 7 bytes in order that the eighth could be used for flags.

-- gil

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Edward Gould]

> On May 22, 2018, at 3:28 PM, Ed Jaffe  wrote:
> 
> z/OS Sysprogs,
> 
> ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be applied but 
> never accepted.
> 
> What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy? If 
> so, why?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 

Ed,

Long ago and far away we never accepted maintenance as we wanted to be able to 
back fixes off, This was after the DFP fiasco (mega PTF tape).
We were not loathe to change the philosophy but Management seem to cut the 
number of sysprogs so we started to not accept PTF’s (unless there was a need).
Management kept cutting and the acting got delayed and delayed and then 
forgotten. I won’t say it was because of management 100 percent but 95 percent.

Ed

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Carmen Vitullo]

:) so nice to be called a newbe @60, I started out working for Sear ETO in 1977 
as an operator :( 
so yep, very green 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Seymour J Metz" <sme...@gmu.edu> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:04:09 PM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

ObNewbie That was before MVSCP. 


-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 

 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:10 PM 
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

Ah yes, the SYSTEM GEN - MVSCP 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message - 

From: "Seymour J Metz" <sme...@gmu.edu> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:54:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

War stories, yes, but I worked on OS/360 and OS/2 SVS before there was an SMP, 
and that was far worse. 


-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 

 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:15 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

I'm so glad I did not have to use/work with SMP, I've heard the war stories and 
I think the backup everyone philosophy came from the old SMP V4 days and at the 
site I worked at, SMP/E I was still taught the standard of backing up all SMP/E 
datasets, target and DLIBS prior to any apply, it has saved my A$$ a couple 
times 



Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message - 

From: "David L. Craig" <dlc@gmail.com> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:08:45 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote: 
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the 
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe 
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / 
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't 
> had a published PTF yet. 

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still 
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while 
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall 
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM. 
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots 
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much 
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance. That also 
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the 
dates of the snapshots. 
-- 
 
May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! 

Dave_Craig__ 
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. 
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. 
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe." 
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ 

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

>ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be
>applied but never accepted.

It's not my dog.

> What was the rationale for this?

Urban legends? 4 roses?

>Does anyone still use this philosophy?

If so, I don't want to know. The only case where it might make sense was for 
JES2 back when the consistently had packaging errors in their service.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of Ed 
Jaffe <edja...@phoenixsoftware.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 4:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

z/OS Sysprogs,

ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be
applied but never accepted.

What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy?
If so, why?

Thanks,

--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1fsB4sUhPWP49AqaQ7Z_q84p-TXhvVzfBjsIXmwRuTGM4kZ23CdeDfT_aGviLMajJ7mWHOP_ULS4KAhrlje2S7HdZhbAF6w2-3NKDNZMLPNkIT8hGbc_gk7rgf4XhGNS1tDN_p_Suu80ToiJ9MNWWdzv8B173amuMCcfpHJEAFQXeBWM7CXqxOfegtKa6UtYm4IlIAgxFcdW4EVzcXUI4OYT4VuZY101nCpDkYHr4xy0JINdkp-on2vFI6F1A7HEIGF5fALbPyXsVon5MugosmP2_UzAzCn0QTYmpS4hd9gPdKtrfsQ_IlC00TtcOInh6QSVTls86YQD94xsXxupgza6OIRV_0PwulPbwHeivfqJbUJlCEC4D-OuM4W4S6ShEaedY336qvMsqKDweufrJEMMVVYo-EzBqdpnYOjfxla94eGQoH1FjdPxxG2HImS1g/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phoenixsoftware.com%2F

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

No. The equivalent of the CSI was multiple data sets, starting with the PTS, 
CDS and ACDS.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Gerhard Adam <gada...@charter.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played the role 
of the current CSI

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote:
>
> The PTS, among others, was a PDS. SMP used very strange member names. There 
> was no CSI, no zones.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
> Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:11 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
>
> CSI not VSAM ?
>
>
> Carmen Vitullo
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Alva John Nims (Al)" <ajn...@ufl.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:00:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
>
> " I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
> the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe!
>
> I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process.
>
> Al Nims
> Systems Admin/Programmer III
> UF Information Technology
> East Campus
> P.O. Box 112050
> Gainesville, FL. 32611
> (e) ajn...@ufl.edu
> (p) (352) 273-1298
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David L. Craig
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
>
>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>>
>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP
>> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage -
>> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.
>
> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last 
> used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM 
> MRM.
> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and 
> DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
> maintenance. That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
> associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots.
> --
> 
> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!
>
> Dave_Craig__
> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Gerhard Adam]

I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played the role 
of the current CSI

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote:
> 
> The PTS, among others, was a PDS. SMP used very strange member names. There 
> was no CSI, no zones.
> 
> 
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
> Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:11 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
> CSI not VSAM ?
> 
> 
> Carmen Vitullo
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: "Alva John Nims (Al)" <ajn...@ufl.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:00:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
> " I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
> the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe!
> 
> I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process.
> 
> Al Nims
> Systems Admin/Programmer III
> UF Information Technology
> East Campus
> P.O. Box 112050
> Gainesville, FL. 32611
> (e) ajn...@ufl.edu
> (p) (352) 273-1298
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David L. Craig
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP
>> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage -
>> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.
> 
> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last 
> used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM 
> MRM.
> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and 
> DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
> maintenance. That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
> associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots.
> --
> 
> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!
> 
> Dave_Craig__
> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_
> 
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

ObNewbie That was before MVSCP.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

Ah yes, the SYSTEM GEN - MVSCP


Carmen Vitullo

- Original Message -

From: "Seymour J Metz" <sme...@gmu.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:54:31 AM
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

War stories, yes, but I worked on OS/360 and OS/2 SVS before there was an SMP, 
and that was far worse.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

I'm so glad I did not have to use/work with SMP, I've heard the war stories and 
I think the backup everyone philosophy came from the old SMP V4 days and at the 
site I worked at, SMP/E I was still taught the standard of backing up all SMP/E 
datasets, target and DLIBS prior to any apply, it has saved my A$$ a couple 
times



Carmen Vitullo

- Original Message -

From: "David L. Craig" <dlc@gmail.com>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:08:45 AM
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while /
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't
> had a published PTF yet.

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance. That also
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the
dates of the snapshots.
--

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

The PTS, among others, was a PDS. SMP used very strange member names. There was 
no CSI, no zones.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

CSI not VSAM ?


Carmen Vitullo

- Original Message -

From: "Alva John Nims (Al)" <ajn...@ufl.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:00:11 PM
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

" I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe!

I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process.

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer III
UF Information Technology
East Campus
P.O. Box 112050
Gainesville, FL. 32611
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu
(p) (352) 273-1298

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David L. Craig
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP
> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage -
> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last used 
SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and DLIB 
volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
maintenance. That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots.
--

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

SMP3? I remember the original SMP, and the chaotic days before it.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Bill Hitefield <bill.hitefi...@dino-software.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

In my SysProg days (70s - 80s), I would ACCEPT maintenance, but only after we 
had run it for a while. PUT maintenance was relegated to weekends. I would 
backup the full environment before running the ACCEPT (saved my bacon a few 
times).



PS: Anybody else remember fighting with SMP v3? We were so happy when SMP v4 
came out. 



Bill Hitefield



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of 
Gerhard Adam
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?



I also don't recall a "never ACCEPT" policy.  That would be silly because it 
becomes a "never RESTORE" policy.



Sent from my iPhone



> On May 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, David L. Craig 
> <dlc@gmail.com<mailto:dlc@gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:

>>

>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on

>> MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe

>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage

>> - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.

>

> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that

> can truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since

> I last used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT

> policy for any IBM MRM.

> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target

> and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing

> LOTS of maintenance.  That also requires tracking the target/DLIB

> volume snapshot associations, which are not necessarily based upon the

> dates of the snapshots.

> --

> 

> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

>

> Dave_Craig__

> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.

> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.

> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."

> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

>

> --

> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send

> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the 
> message: INFO IBM-MAIN



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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Gerhard Adam]

Sorry, but the CSI was never a PDS and still isn't.  I suspect you're thinking 
of the PTS

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 10:00 AM, Nims,Alva John (Al) <ajn...@ufl.edu> wrote:
> 
> " I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
> the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe!
> 
> I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process.
> 
> Al Nims
> Systems Admin/Programmer III
> UF Information Technology
> East Campus 
> P.O. Box 112050
> Gainesville, FL. 32611
> (e) ajn...@ufl.edu 
> (p) (352) 273-1298
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David L. Craig
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP 
>> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage - 
>> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.
> 
> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last 
> used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM 
> MRM.
> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and 
> DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
> maintenance.  That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
> associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots.
> --
> 
> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!
> 
> Dave_Craig__
> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_
> 
> --
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[David Purdy]

I indeed remember SMP v4, especially v4.13 that ironically had bugs.  Circa 
1978/79 and very ugly.  Our PSR lived onsite for days.

David



On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 Bill Hitefield <bill.hitefi...@dino-software.com> 
wrote:
In my SysProg days (70s - 80s), I would ACCEPT maintenance, but only after we 
had run it for a while. PUT maintenance was relegated to weekends. I would 
backup the full environment before running the ACCEPT (saved my bacon a few 
times).



PS: Anybody else remember fighting with SMP v3? We were so happy when SMP v4 
came out. 



Bill Hitefield



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of 
Gerhard Adam
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?



I also don't recall a "never ACCEPT" policy. That would be silly because it 
becomes a "never RESTORE" policy.



Sent from my iPhone



> 

On May 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, David L. Craig 
<dlc@gmail.com<mailto:dlc@gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:

>>

>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on

>> MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe

>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage

>> - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.

>

> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that

> can truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since

> I last used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT

> policy for any IBM MRM.

> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target

> and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing

> LOTS of maintenance. That also requires tracking the target/DLIB

> volume snapshot associations, which are not necessarily based upon the

> dates of the snapshots.

> --

> 

> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

>

> Dave_Craig__

> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.

> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.

> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."

> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

>

> --

> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send

> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the 
> message: INFO IBM-MAIN



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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Bill Hitefield]

In my SysProg days (70s - 80s), I would ACCEPT maintenance, but only after we 
had run it for a while. PUT maintenance was relegated to weekends. I would 
backup the full environment before running the ACCEPT (saved my bacon a few 
times).



PS: Anybody else remember fighting with SMP v3? We were so happy when SMP v4 
came out. 



Bill Hitefield



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of 
Gerhard Adam
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?



I also don't recall a "never ACCEPT" policy.  That would be silly because it 
becomes a "never RESTORE" policy.



Sent from my iPhone



> On May 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, David L. Craig 
> <dlc@gmail.com<mailto:dlc@gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:

>>

>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on

>> MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe

>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage

>> - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.

>

> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that

> can truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since

> I last used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT

> policy for any IBM MRM.

> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target

> and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing

> LOTS of maintenance.  That also requires tracking the target/DLIB

> volume snapshot associations, which are not necessarily based upon the

> dates of the snapshots.

> --

> 

> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

>

> Dave_Craig__

> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.

> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.

> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."

> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

>

> --

> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send

> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the 
> message: INFO IBM-MAIN



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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Carmen Vitullo]

CSI not VSAM ? 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Alva John Nims (Al)" <ajn...@ufl.edu> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:00:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

" I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe! 

I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process. 

Al Nims 
Systems Admin/Programmer III 
UF Information Technology 
East Campus 
P.O. Box 112050 
Gainesville, FL. 32611 
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu 
(p) (352) 273-1298 

-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David L. Craig 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote: 
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP 
> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe 
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage - 
> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet. 

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last used 
SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM. 
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and DLIB 
volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
maintenance. That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots. 
-- 
 
May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! 

Dave_Craig__ 
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. 
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. 
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe." 
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ 

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Carmen Vitullo]

Ah yes, the SYSTEM GEN - MVSCP 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Seymour J Metz" <sme...@gmu.edu> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:54:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

War stories, yes, but I worked on OS/360 and OS/2 SVS before there was an SMP, 
and that was far worse. 


-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 

 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:15 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

I'm so glad I did not have to use/work with SMP, I've heard the war stories and 
I think the backup everyone philosophy came from the old SMP V4 days and at the 
site I worked at, SMP/E I was still taught the standard of backing up all SMP/E 
datasets, target and DLIBS prior to any apply, it has saved my A$$ a couple 
times 



Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message - 

From: "David L. Craig" <dlc@gmail.com> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:08:45 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote: 
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the 
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe 
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / 
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't 
> had a published PTF yet. 

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still 
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while 
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall 
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM. 
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots 
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much 
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance. That also 
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the 
dates of the snapshots. 
-- 
 
May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! 

Dave_Craig__ 
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. 
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. 
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe." 
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ 

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

Never accept what? The advice to never accept an APAR or USERMOD is sound. The 
advice never to accept a PTF - it's not my dog.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Allan Staller <allan.stal...@hcl.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 8:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

"never accept" because there might be "bad" maintenance in the stream.

If you have been running on the "new maintenance" for xx months, what can be 
"bad"?
I agree w/Tom Conley. It was wrong then (even if well intended). It is still 
wrong.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 5:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On 5/22/2018 1:49 PM, Allan Staller wrote:
> I haven't used that philosophy in 30+ years.

What was the rationale 30+ years ago?

Do you remember why things were being done that way?

Thanks,

--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UQ7-7D9XBwR1qCx3aiNIShyb0c2RaZdkHhbVCRk2rp9c4x0rSKhLU1Hz5Xj0ahaYKuYDUShzYIJjtR2Gj0dHQ0ZnIgtMS4d0hXUKfpGp78VydHJ75f5MUY8LFbMprU1dpfSdqekPOr9NxxC2bTRwKTVMaMyKCZqam4gfwEx3g7zVZP2a_WVJpjOpDlowCJaLnZ5M-J2xit4_C0rX9Nf6eztGVQIbF_yTpLZP_JuM0AidsuNbTlt8x4LRUCbshs3p-4t0MBfGOkxRRld1dLTr-ltKWWV7Jqd4NaAMTUzx6rLJofMXZhB4ED2XlOzLXFYJCez_6kij4kk5HbtrxEFu_RC6b7fpWN0FAtf81eZcCQHuTUMHEXZLoxVHrKbH3lNx1CfLpuaavO8lqupc0dYfGmllZFfiplx9NIb9kJGV1L-RnwQ0d3Tn5YxZCwmanE5n/https%3A%2F%2Fapac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.phoenixsoftware.com%252F%26data%3D02%257C01%257Callan.staller%2540HCL.COM%257C0a9bd16e74284d053ffe08d5c03411e4%257C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%257C0%257C0%257C636626252258061200%26sdata%3DRplEGhGyPWTc5cVIUJkB6EAo3h2uTX8R9ErgpA0OyfA%253D%26reserved%3D0

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Nims,Alva John (Al)]

" I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe!

I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process.

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer III
UF Information Technology
East Campus 
P.O. Box 112050
Gainesville, FL. 32611
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu 
(p) (352) 273-1298

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David L. Craig
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP 
> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage - 
> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last used 
SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and DLIB 
volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
maintenance.  That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots.
--

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Tom Marchant]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:08:32 -0500, Tom Marchant wrote:

>On Wed, 23 May 2018 10:07:16 -0400, John Eells wrote:
>
>>As others have pointed out, it makes RESTORE a lot harder if you never
>>ACCEPT PTFs.
>
>I haven't had the need to do this yet, but I have an idea that I think will 
>make it much easier.
>
>If I want to restore PTF A and RESTORE CHECK tells me that it can't 
>RESTORE it because PTFs B, C, and D have not been ACCEPTed, I can 
>run ACCEPT CHECK on B, C, and D. That should give me a list of all the 
>PTFs that also need to be RESTOREd in order to RESTORE A.

I meant to say ACCEPT CHECK GROUP on B, C, and D.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Gerhard Adam]

Why bother?  Do a RESTORE GROUP CHECK and get that information.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 9:08 AM, Tom Marchant 
> <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 23 May 2018 10:07:16 -0400, John Eells wrote:
>> 
>> As others have pointed out, it makes RESTORE a lot harder if you never
>> ACCEPT PTFs.
> 
> I haven't had the need to do this yet, but I have an idea that I think will 
> make it much easier.
> 
> If I want to restore PTF A and RESTORE CHECK tells me that it can't 
> RESTORE it because PTFs B, C, and D have not been ACCEPTed, I can 
> run ACCEPT CHECK on B, C, and D. That should give me a list of all the 
> PTFs that also need to be RESTOREd in order to RESTORE A.
> 
> -- 
> Tom Marchant
> 
> --
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

War stories, yes, but I worked on OS/360 and OS/2 SVS before there was an SMP, 
and that was far worse.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

I'm so glad I did not have to use/work with SMP, I've heard the war stories and 
I think the backup everyone philosophy came from the old SMP V4 days and at the 
site I worked at, SMP/E I was still taught the standard of backing up all SMP/E 
datasets, target and DLIBS prior to any apply, it has saved my A$$ a couple 
times



Carmen Vitullo

- Original Message -

From: "David L. Craig" <dlc@gmail.com>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:08:45 AM
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while /
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't
> had a published PTF yet.

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance. That also
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the
dates of the snapshots.
--

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

I would go so far as to assert that there was never a 'no-ACCEPT policy', only 
an ad hoc practice advocated by what I always thought were outliers. Open any 
IBM doc on SMP(/E) ever published and you will find the same canonical 
procedure:

--RECEIVE  
--APPLY  
--ACCEPT (maybe hold off on this a while, but resolve to do it eventually)   

Having never given no-ACCEPT serious consideration, I can't speak for its 
motivation. I suspect that it was a combination of (misguided) RESTORE concerns 
and a sense that ACCEPT represents wasted cycles--CPU and bioware. Some may 
have believed that the whole DLIB environment entailed unnecessary DASD space. 
When DASD became radically cheaper--and people became more expensive--no-ACCEPT 
may have looked like a penny saved. I personally think that's false economy. 
ACCEPT, besides stuffing a lot of data into distribution libraries, also 
performs SMP/E cleanup. Until ACCEPT, RECEIVEd sysmods remain in the PTS, which 
grows insidiously like the Blob over the life of each FMID. Likewise TLIBs, 
which hold the verbatim content of all sysmods, are not deleted until ACCEPT 
(if then--it's optional). 

Having said all that, I suspect that there are still Never ACCEPTers out there 
who are unlikely to change their ways. I'm guessing that OP Ed Jaffe is looking 
at this issue from the perspective a software supplier. It's hard to imagine 
that the owners of SMP/E will ever alter the recommended procedure.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 8:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never 
ACCEPT?

I also don't recall a "never ACCEPT" policy.  That would be silly because it 
becomes a "never RESTORE" policy.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, David L. Craig <dlc@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on 
>> MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage 
>> - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.
> 
> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that 
> can truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since 
> I last used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT 
> policy for any IBM MRM.
> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target 
> and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing 
> LOTS of maintenance.  That also requires tracking the target/DLIB 
> volume snapshot associations, which are not necessarily based upon the 
> dates of the snapshots.
> --
> 
> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!


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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Tom Marchant]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 10:07:16 -0400, John Eells wrote:

>As others have pointed out, it makes RESTORE a lot harder if you never
>ACCEPT PTFs.

I haven't had the need to do this yet, but I have an idea that I think will 
make it much easier.

If I want to restore PTF A and RESTORE CHECK tells me that it can't 
RESTORE it because PTFs B, C, and D have not been ACCEPTed, I can 
run ACCEPT CHECK on B, C, and D. That should give me a list of all the 
PTFs that also need to be RESTOREd in order to RESTORE A.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Gerhard Adam]

I also don't recall a "never ACCEPT" policy.  That would be silly because it 
becomes a "never RESTORE" policy.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, David L. Craig  wrote:
> 
>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the
>> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while /
>> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't
>> had a published PTF yet.
> 
> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still
> here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while
> it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall
> ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots
> of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much
> faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance.  That also
> requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot
> associations, which are not necessarily based upon the
> dates of the snapshots.
> -- 
> 
> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!
> 
> Dave_Craig__
> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Carmen Vitullo]

I'm so glad I did not have to use/work with SMP, I've heard the war stories and 
I think the backup everyone philosophy came from the old SMP V4 days and at the 
site I worked at, SMP/E I was still taught the standard of backing up all SMP/E 
datasets, target and DLIBS prior to any apply, it has saved my A$$ a couple 
times 



Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "David L. Craig" <dlc@gmail.com> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:08:45 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote: 
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the 
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe 
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / 
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't 
> had a published PTF yet. 

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still 
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while 
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall 
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM. 
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots 
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much 
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance. That also 
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the 
dates of the snapshots. 
-- 
 
May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! 

Dave_Craig__ 
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. 
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. 
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe." 
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ 

-- 
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[David L. Craig]

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while /
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't
> had a published PTF yet.

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance.  That also
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the
dates of the snapshots.
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

--
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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[John Eells]

As others have pointed out, it makes RESTORE a lot harder if you never 
ACCEPT PTFs.


Why?  To RESTORE, SMP/E requires the needed levels of the parts to be in 
the DLIBs.


Here is a simple example.  Suppose you have Part A, and the DLIB level 
of Part A is 001.  You have installed six PTFs that replace Part A, so 
now the target level of Part A is, in this example, 007.  There's a 
problem with the last PTF, and either the PE fix is not available or 
perhaps you're not comfortable with its age.  So, you want to take off 
just the last PTF that replaced Part A.  But, SMP/E does not have level 
006 of part A in the DLIB, it has level 001.  So, you must either back 
off all six PTFs to back off the last one, and then put five of them 
back, *or* ACCEPT the first five before backing off the sixth.  In the 
first case, SMP/E restores Part A back to level 001, and then updates it 
to 006.  In the second (after the ACCEPT for the first five PTFs), it 
simply restores Part A to level 006.


Now, think about what happens with PTFs that PRE and IF other PTFs, and 
those that ship overlapping multiples of some parts.  This stuff can get 
really complicated to untangle, fast.  The RESTORE process tends to be 
iterative, and can be quite time-consuming, if you never or rarely run 
ACCEPT.  So most thoughtful people, after seeing how this all works, 
decide how far forward to ACCEPT, and when, and do it as a matter of 
course to keep the plate of sticky spaghetti down to a manageable level 
of complexity in case they have to RESTORE a PTF later on.


I hate stories that start with "when *I* did that," but I'll tell one 
anyway.  We used to ACCEPT all non-PE PTFs ahead of each preventive 
service cycle, which seemed to keep it under control reasonably well 
because we did it quarterly (which is now pretty much the current 
recommendation, as it happens).  If you do it less often, the amount of 
applied but not accepted service will be greater, and the chains to be 
resolved before RESTORE will be correspondingly more complex.  You might 
want to ACCEPT by PTF age (PUT) in that case, for example.


Other people have other strategies, but you should think about the 
complexity of RESTORE preparation and the time it will take if you have 
to RESTORE a PTF to resolve a severe problem.  Also, not running ACCEPT 
on some regular basis makes your SMPPTS data sets grow forever, though 
this is a far smaller concern today than it was historically.


This is the current state of SMP/E RESTORE processing.  The requirement 
to "Please, *please* just let me take off this PTF and anything that 
PREs or IFs it without having to figure this stuff all out" is, believe 
me, *very* well understood.  In other words, more RFEs won't hurt, but 
neither will they help much.



Ed Jaffe wrote:

z/OS Sysprogs,

ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be 
applied but never accepted.


What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy? 
If so, why?


Thanks,




--
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
ee...@us.ibm.com

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Carmen Vitullo]

Agree, my SMP/E class I took (Amdal) in the early 80's taught us the same, plus 
it was suggested we run the accept process (only sysmods(PTF) ) prior to 
applying of new maint. 
that philosophy right or wrong has worked great for me. 


NEVER ACCEPT USERMODS OR APARS - 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Rex Pommier" <rpomm...@sfgmembers.com> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 7:47:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

Ed, 

Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP and at 
my first SMP/E (and I believe only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a 
while / ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published 
PTF yet. 

Rex 

-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 3:28 PM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

z/OS Sysprogs, 

ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be 
applied but never accepted. 

What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy? 
If so, why? 

Thanks, 

-- 
Phoenix Software International 
Edward E. Jaffe 
831 Parkview Drive North 
El Segundo, CA 90245 
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ 

 
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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Allan Staller]

"never accept" because there might be "bad" maintenance in the stream.

If you have been running on the "new maintenance" for xx months, what can be 
"bad"?
I agree w/Tom Conley. It was wrong then (even if well intended). It is still 
wrong.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 5:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On 5/22/2018 1:49 PM, Allan Staller wrote:
> I haven't used that philosophy in 30+ years.

What was the rationale 30+ years ago?

Do you remember why things were being done that way?

Thanks,

--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phoenixsoftware.com%2F=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C0a9bd16e74284d053ffe08d5c03411e4%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C636626252258061200=RplEGhGyPWTc5cVIUJkB6EAo3h2uTX8R9ErgpA0OyfA%3D=0

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Pommier, Rex]

Ed,

Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP and at 
my first SMP/E (and I believe only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a 
while / ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published 
PTF yet.  

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 3:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

z/OS Sysprogs,

ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be 
applied but never accepted.

What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy? 
If so, why?

Thanks,

-- 
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: [External] Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Pommier, Rex]

Or you restore A and B and reapply A.  

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 6:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Tue, 22 May 2018 16:51:01 -0400, Tom Conley wrote:

>On 5/22/2018 4:26 PM, Ed Jaffe wrote:
>>
>> ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be
>> applied but never accepted.
>>
>> What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy?
>> If so, why?
>
>There is no rationale.  It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.  It
>kneecaps the most valuable feature of SMP/E - RESTORE!  Unless, of
>course, you like RESTOREing the entire FMID.
>
OTOH, doing ACCEPT kneecaps the possibility of a RESTORE to a point
earlier than that ACCEPT.  SMP/E strikes me as a half-hearted design.
A better design would permit RESTORE to any prior service level provided
the necessary elements remain in the GLOBAL zone.

Suppose you have two suspect PTFs,  A and B.  In order to tentatively
RESTORE B you must ACCEPT A.  If RESTORE B doesn't solve the problem
there's no posibility to RESTORE A.

I believe VMSES/E does better.  It has no analogue of ACCEPT.  VMFREMOV
simply re-installs needed components from the DELTA disk, the analog of
the GLOBAL zone.

-- gil

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Brian Westerman]

I think people used to install their local usermods that way.  I don't remember 
that ever being the norm for PTF's though. 

Brian

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Tom Conley]

On 5/22/2018 7:37 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Tue, 22 May 2018 16:51:01 -0400, Tom Conley wrote:


On 5/22/2018 4:26 PM, Ed Jaffe wrote:


ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be
applied but never accepted.

What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy?
If so, why?


There is no rationale.  It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.  It
kneecaps the most valuable feature of SMP/E - RESTORE!  Unless, of
course, you like RESTOREing the entire FMID.


OTOH, doing ACCEPT kneecaps the possibility of a RESTORE to a point
earlier than that ACCEPT.  SMP/E strikes me as a half-hearted design.
A better design would permit RESTORE to any prior service level provided
the necessary elements remain in the GLOBAL zone.

Suppose you have two suspect PTFs,  A and B.  In order to tentatively
RESTORE B you must ACCEPT A.  If RESTORE B doesn't solve the problem
there's no posibility to RESTORE A.

I believe VMSES/E does better.  It has no analogue of ACCEPT.  VMFREMOV
simply re-installs needed components from the DELTA disk, the analog of
the GLOBAL zone.

-- gil

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There is a way to RESTORE prior to the ACCEPT.  You need to BACKUP your 
entire SMP/E environment, then restore it.


Regards,
Tom Conley

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 22 May 2018 16:51:01 -0400, Tom Conley wrote:

>On 5/22/2018 4:26 PM, Ed Jaffe wrote:
>>
>> ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be
>> applied but never accepted.
>>
>> What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy?
>> If so, why?
>
>There is no rationale.  It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.  It
>kneecaps the most valuable feature of SMP/E - RESTORE!  Unless, of
>course, you like RESTOREing the entire FMID.
>
OTOH, doing ACCEPT kneecaps the possibility of a RESTORE to a point
earlier than that ACCEPT.  SMP/E strikes me as a half-hearted design.
A better design would permit RESTORE to any prior service level provided
the necessary elements remain in the GLOBAL zone.

Suppose you have two suspect PTFs,  A and B.  In order to tentatively
RESTORE B you must ACCEPT A.  If RESTORE B doesn't solve the problem
there's no posibility to RESTORE A.

I believe VMSES/E does better.  It has no analogue of ACCEPT.  VMFREMOV
simply re-installs needed components from the DELTA disk, the analog of
the GLOBAL zone.

-- gil

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Ed Jaffe]

On 5/22/2018 1:49 PM, Allan Staller wrote:

I haven't used that philosophy in 30+ years.


What was the rationale 30+ years ago?

Do you remember why things were being done that way?

Thanks,

--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Tom Conley]

On 5/22/2018 4:26 PM, Ed Jaffe wrote:

z/OS Sysprogs,

ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be 
applied but never accepted.


What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy? 
If so, why?


Thanks,



FYI,

There is no rationale.  It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.  It 
kneecaps the most valuable feature of SMP/E - RESTORE!  Unless, of 
course, you like RESTOREing the entire FMID.


Regards,
Tom Conley

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Re: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Allan Staller]

I haven't used that philosophy in 30+ years.

Install maintenance.
Let it run until time for next round of maint.
Accept "old maint"
Install next round of maint.

Reason: PTF chains in the event of a need to restore.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 3:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

z/OS Sysprogs,

ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be applied but 
never accepted.

What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy?
If so, why?

Thanks,

--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phoenixsoftware.com%2F=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C2b559369bc9242c570f608d5c0229754%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C636626177197737157=1QJPU5ft%2F11FiJYNl2xkh3zVds1kFBggw4j0pDwK%2FUk%3D=0

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Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Ed Jaffe]

z/OS Sysprogs,

ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be 
applied but never accepted.


What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy? 
If so, why?


Thanks,

--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
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