Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
So does DITTO. I also have my own HLASM tape copy programs that use basic CCWs for tape I-O that I could modify, if needed, to read the readable sections of the tape. The bigger problem is the programs that created the back-ups. For many of the tapes, we don't even know their internal format or what software wrote them. Or, if the software is still on the machine. We think it may still be there, but maybe not. And, the tape manager has changed too so the supporting information that the tape manager may have had may not still be available either. Tony Thigpen PINION, RICHARD W. wrote on 6/8/21 4:26 PM: Doesn't FDR's FATS and FATR have the ability to read tapes, and skip unreadable blocks? Some data is better than no data at all. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 4:21 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] I have customer 3490 tapes from the 90's in my storage vault. (I also have good 3490 drives.) We told the customer that we do not know if the tapes were even readable when we got them 8 years ago. The told us: "We don't care. As long as we can tell the auditors that we have the tapes, we are good to go. If there is ever a need to read the tapes, we will fight the problems reading the data off the tape at that time. If a lawyer wants data, we will then do a 'good faith' attempt to read it, but not until then." Tony Thigpen Radoslaw Skorupka wrote on 6/8/21 4:08 PM: Rule of thumb: you don't need old tapes, you may need old data. In my former life I had 20 years old data, but the tapes were approx. 2-3 years old (max.). And always replicated, always in two locations. For old media (tapes, optical, hdd's, whatever) the earlier you start reading them the better chances you have. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 08.06.2021 o 15:18, Carl Swanson pisze: This was a fun trip down memory lane, I remember the Overland device. And if memory servers me correctly you had to load the tape through the mechanism manually, there was at least the ne I tried in the early 90's no autoloader. Why could this be important is because the most likely error these types of tapes will see is edge damage making the not readable. And every time a human hand touches, they the chances go up. Last Time I spoke with anyone about 3420 tapes was back around 2010 and they had a number of tapes that for any reason "Could Not be Scratched". Their solution was to hand the tapes to the person making that statement and saying they will not be scratched because they are in your possession. I thought it was a great solution to the issue. The likelihood of reading these tapes in my opinion is very low, they have passed their shelf life. Carl Swanson Mobile:215.688.1459 Email: carl.swans...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Sunday, June 6, 2021 12:21 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 05:54:17 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: Presumably he's saying that nobody in his right mind would simply copy the data on the tape to a byte stream, and that the most obvious way to archive the tape is to convert it to AWSTAPE format. Once it's in AWSTAPE format, then it's simple to read it under Hercules, assuming that the labels and records follow OS/360 conventions. Amen. Joe Monk's and Radoslaw's comments appear well-informed. And with 9-track I believe there's no need to deal with the abomination of even parity. ( knew an old CDC OS that relied on the difference to discern filetypes, even replicating the behavior in DASD files.) It's a pity there's no facility to process AWSTAPE directly with no need for a step to convert to virtual or real 3480. Subsystem? ISV? Or to generate AWSTAPE on Linux, MacOS, or Windows. Does a dump of the first block say "VOL1"? If the OP believes the tapes contain useful data he probably knows which utility can process the restored images. -- gil - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive a
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
Doesn't FDR's FATS and FATR have the ability to read tapes, and skip unreadable blocks? Some data is better than no data at all. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 4:21 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] I have customer 3490 tapes from the 90's in my storage vault. (I also have good 3490 drives.) We told the customer that we do not know if the tapes were even readable when we got them 8 years ago. The told us: "We don't care. As long as we can tell the auditors that we have the tapes, we are good to go. If there is ever a need to read the tapes, we will fight the problems reading the data off the tape at that time. If a lawyer wants data, we will then do a 'good faith' attempt to read it, but not until then." Tony Thigpen Radoslaw Skorupka wrote on 6/8/21 4:08 PM: > Rule of thumb: you don't need old tapes, you may need old data. > In my former life I had 20 years old data, but the tapes were approx. > 2-3 years old (max.). And always replicated, always in two locations. > For old media (tapes, optical, hdd's, whatever) the earlier you start > reading them the better chances you have. > > > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > > > > > > W dniu 08.06.2021 o 15:18, Carl Swanson pisze: >> This was a fun trip down memory lane, I remember the Overland >> device. And if memory servers me correctly you had to load the tape >> through the mechanism manually, there was at least the ne I tried in >> the early 90's no autoloader. Why could this be important is because >> the most likely error these types of tapes will see is edge damage >> making the not readable. And every time a human hand touches, they >> the chances go up. Last Time I spoke with anyone about 3420 tapes was >> back around 2010 and they had a number of tapes that for any reason >> "Could Not be Scratched". Their solution was to hand the tapes to the >> person making that statement and saying they will not be scratched >> because they are in your possession. I thought it was a great >> solution to the issue. The likelihood of reading these tapes in my >> opinion is very low, they have passed their shelf life. >> >> Carl Swanson >> Mobile:215.688.1459 >> Email: carl.swans...@verizon.net >> >> -----Original Message- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On >> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin >> Sent: Sunday, June 6, 2021 12:21 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive >> >> On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 05:54:17 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> >>> Presumably he's saying that nobody in his right mind would simply >>> copy the data on the tape to a byte stream, and that the most >>> obvious way to archive the tape is to convert it to AWSTAPE format. >>> Once it's in AWSTAPE format, then it's simple to read it under >>> Hercules, assuming that the labels and records follow OS/360 conventions. >>> >> Amen. Joe Monk's and Radoslaw's comments appear well-informed. >> And with 9-track I believe there's no need to deal with the >> abomination of even parity. ( knew an old CDC OS that relied on the >> difference to discern filetypes, even replicating the behavior in >> DASD >> files.) >> >> It's a pity there's no facility to process AWSTAPE directly with no >> need for a step to convert to virtual or real 3480. Subsystem? ISV? >> Or to generate AWSTAPE on Linux, MacOS, or Windows. >> >> Does a dump of the first block say "VOL1"? >> >> If the OP believes the tapes contain useful data he probably knows >> which utility can process the restored images. >> >> -- gil >> >> - >> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO >> IBM-MAIN >> >> - >> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO >> IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IB
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
I have customer 3490 tapes from the 90's in my storage vault. (I also have good 3490 drives.) We told the customer that we do not know if the tapes were even readable when we got them 8 years ago. The told us: "We don't care. As long as we can tell the auditors that we have the tapes, we are good to go. If there is ever a need to read the tapes, we will fight the problems reading the data off the tape at that time. If a lawyer wants data, we will then do a 'good faith' attempt to read it, but not until then." Tony Thigpen Radoslaw Skorupka wrote on 6/8/21 4:08 PM: Rule of thumb: you don't need old tapes, you may need old data. In my former life I had 20 years old data, but the tapes were approx. 2-3 years old (max.). And always replicated, always in two locations. For old media (tapes, optical, hdd's, whatever) the earlier you start reading them the better chances you have. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 08.06.2021 o 15:18, Carl Swanson pisze: This was a fun trip down memory lane, I remember the Overland device. And if memory servers me correctly you had to load the tape through the mechanism manually, there was at least the ne I tried in the early 90's no autoloader. Why could this be important is because the most likely error these types of tapes will see is edge damage making the not readable. And every time a human hand touches, they the chances go up. Last Time I spoke with anyone about 3420 tapes was back around 2010 and they had a number of tapes that for any reason "Could Not be Scratched". Their solution was to hand the tapes to the person making that statement and saying they will not be scratched because they are in your possession. I thought it was a great solution to the issue. The likelihood of reading these tapes in my opinion is very low, they have passed their shelf life. Carl Swanson Mobile:215.688.1459 Email: carl.swans...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Sunday, June 6, 2021 12:21 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 05:54:17 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: Presumably he's saying that nobody in his right mind would simply copy the data on the tape to a byte stream, and that the most obvious way to archive the tape is to convert it to AWSTAPE format. Once it's in AWSTAPE format, then it's simple to read it under Hercules, assuming that the labels and records follow OS/360 conventions. Amen. Joe Monk's and Radoslaw's comments appear well-informed. And with 9-track I believe there's no need to deal with the abomination of even parity. ( knew an old CDC OS that relied on the difference to discern filetypes, even replicating the behavior in DASD files.) It's a pity there's no facility to process AWSTAPE directly with no need for a step to convert to virtual or real 3480. Subsystem? ISV? Or to generate AWSTAPE on Linux, MacOS, or Windows. Does a dump of the first block say "VOL1"? If the OP believes the tapes contain useful data he probably knows which utility can process the restored images. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
W dniu 06.06.2021 o 16:20, Joe Monk pisze: "There is another requirement here: to read REAL tape using PC tools. How to read? a) dataset by dataset b) whole tape => AWS tape image" Radoslaw, Hercules has a really cool utility called TAPECOPY! It reads a real tape and copies it to an AWSTAPE format disk file. Of course, being written by mainframes, TAPECOPY is sensitive to mainframe tape marks, RDW/BDW, etc. The resulting AWSTAPE file is a mirror image of the tape. "The Hercules tape copy program copies a SCSI tape to or from an AWSTAPE disk file. Tapecopy reads a SCSI tape and outputs an AWSTAPE file representation of the tape, or reads an AWSTAPE file and creates an identical copy of its contents on a tape mounted on a SCSI tape drive. If the input file is a SCSI tape it is read and processed until physical EOD (end-of-data) is reached. That is, it does not stop whenever multiple tapemarks or filemarks are read, rather it continues processing until the SCSI tape drive says there is no more data on the tape. The resulting AWSTAPE output disk file may be specified for the filename on a Hercules tape device con- figuration statement. It can then be used in order for the Hercules guest O/S to read the exact same data without having a SCSI tape drive physically attached to the host system. This allows you to easily transfer SCSI tape data to other systems that may not have SCSI tape drives attached to them." I stand corrected. I didn't know about this Hercules tool, nor about Hercules support for real external devices like tape drive. So, the solution could be 3420-compatible tape drive with SCSI interface connected to a PC with Hercules. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
Rule of thumb: you don't need old tapes, you may need old data. In my former life I had 20 years old data, but the tapes were approx. 2-3 years old (max.). And always replicated, always in two locations. For old media (tapes, optical, hdd's, whatever) the earlier you start reading them the better chances you have. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 08.06.2021 o 15:18, Carl Swanson pisze: This was a fun trip down memory lane, I remember the Overland device. And if memory servers me correctly you had to load the tape through the mechanism manually, there was at least the ne I tried in the early 90's no autoloader. Why could this be important is because the most likely error these types of tapes will see is edge damage making the not readable. And every time a human hand touches, they the chances go up. Last Time I spoke with anyone about 3420 tapes was back around 2010 and they had a number of tapes that for any reason "Could Not be Scratched". Their solution was to hand the tapes to the person making that statement and saying they will not be scratched because they are in your possession. I thought it was a great solution to the issue. The likelihood of reading these tapes in my opinion is very low, they have passed their shelf life. Carl Swanson Mobile:215.688.1459 Email: carl.swans...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Sunday, June 6, 2021 12:21 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 05:54:17 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: Presumably he's saying that nobody in his right mind would simply copy the data on the tape to a byte stream, and that the most obvious way to archive the tape is to convert it to AWSTAPE format. Once it's in AWSTAPE format, then it's simple to read it under Hercules, assuming that the labels and records follow OS/360 conventions. Amen. Joe Monk's and Radoslaw's comments appear well-informed. And with 9-track I believe there's no need to deal with the abomination of even parity. ( knew an old CDC OS that relied on the difference to discern filetypes, even replicating the behavior in DASD files.) It's a pity there's no facility to process AWSTAPE directly with no need for a step to convert to virtual or real 3480. Subsystem? ISV? Or to generate AWSTAPE on Linux, MacOS, or Windows. Does a dump of the first block say "VOL1"? If the OP believes the tapes contain useful data he probably knows which utility can process the restored images. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
This was a fun trip down memory lane, I remember the Overland device. And if memory servers me correctly you had to load the tape through the mechanism manually, there was at least the ne I tried in the early 90's no autoloader. Why could this be important is because the most likely error these types of tapes will see is edge damage making the not readable. And every time a human hand touches, they the chances go up. Last Time I spoke with anyone about 3420 tapes was back around 2010 and they had a number of tapes that for any reason "Could Not be Scratched". Their solution was to hand the tapes to the person making that statement and saying they will not be scratched because they are in your possession. I thought it was a great solution to the issue. The likelihood of reading these tapes in my opinion is very low, they have passed their shelf life. Carl Swanson Mobile:215.688.1459 Email: carl.swans...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Sunday, June 6, 2021 12:21 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 05:54:17 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Presumably he's saying that nobody in his right mind would simply copy the >data on the tape to a byte stream, and that the most obvious way to archive >the tape is to convert it to AWSTAPE format. Once it's in AWSTAPE format, then >it's simple to read it under Hercules, assuming that the labels and records >follow OS/360 conventions. > Amen. Joe Monk's and Radoslaw's comments appear well-informed. And with 9-track I believe there's no need to deal with the abomination of even parity. ( knew an old CDC OS that relied on the difference to discern filetypes, even replicating the behavior in DASD files.) It's a pity there's no facility to process AWSTAPE directly with no need for a step to convert to virtual or real 3480. Subsystem? ISV? Or to generate AWSTAPE on Linux, MacOS, or Windows. Does a dump of the first block say "VOL1"? If the OP believes the tapes contain useful data he probably knows which utility can process the restored images. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 05:54:17 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Presumably he's saying that nobody in his right mind would simply copy the >data on the tape to a byte stream, and that the most obvious way to archive >the tape is to convert it to AWSTAPE format. Once it's in AWSTAPE format, then >it's simple to read it under Hercules, assuming that the labels and records >follow OS/360 conventions. > Amen. Joe Monk's and Radoslaw's comments appear well-informed. And with 9-track I believe there's no need to deal with the abomination of even parity. ( knew an old CDC OS that relied on the difference to discern filetypes, even replicating the behavior in DASD files.) It's a pity there's no facility to process AWSTAPE directly with no need for a step to convert to virtual or real 3480. Subsystem? ISV? Or to generate AWSTAPE on Linux, MacOS, or Windows. Does a dump of the first block say "VOL1"? If the OP believes the tapes contain useful data he probably knows which utility can process the restored images. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
"There is another requirement here: to read REAL tape using PC tools. How to read? a) dataset by dataset b) whole tape => AWS tape image" Radoslaw, Hercules has a really cool utility called TAPECOPY! It reads a real tape and copies it to an AWSTAPE format disk file. Of course, being written by mainframes, TAPECOPY is sensitive to mainframe tape marks, RDW/BDW, etc. The resulting AWSTAPE file is a mirror image of the tape. "The Hercules tape copy program copies a SCSI tape to or from an AWSTAPE disk file. Tapecopy reads a SCSI tape and outputs an AWSTAPE file representation of the tape, or reads an AWSTAPE file and creates an identical copy of its contents on a tape mounted on a SCSI tape drive. If the input file is a SCSI tape it is read and processed until physical EOD (end-of-data) is reached. That is, it does not stop whenever multiple tapemarks or filemarks are read, rather it continues processing until the SCSI tape drive says there is no more data on the tape. The resulting AWSTAPE output disk file may be specified for the filename on a Hercules tape device con- figuration statement. It can then be used in order for the Hercules guest O/S to read the exact same data without having a SCSI tape drive physically attached to the host system. This allows you to easily transfer SCSI tape data to other systems that may not have SCSI tape drives attached to them." Joe On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 1:12 PM Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: > W dniu 04.06.2021 o 19:48, Paul Gilmartin pisze: > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 17:30:38 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote: > > > >> Assuming the PC-attached SCSI tape drive comes with software to copy > data from the tape to a disk file without any translation you just have to > copy the files off the actual tape in binary and then FTP in binary up to > your favorite mainframe location. FTP is not binary by default but it is > very easy to do binary transfers (Letter I [eye] command then just PUT pr > MPUT). > >> > > Block boundaries? Sometimes they matter, and RDWs and BDWs. Especially > for RCFM=vBS > > such as IEBCOPY PDSU. And LRECL=X. > > > > AWSTAPE? > > Your brevity is excellent, but it doesn't explain what and how to do. > I just checked CBTtape - there are MVS (z/OS) tools - unapplicable for PC. > There is also Windows tool - AWS browser. Also unapplicable. > > There is another requirement here: to read REAL tape using PC tools. > How to read? > a) dataset by dataset > b) whole tape => AWS tape image > > I believe there are tools to read tape and understand blocks and > tapemarks, and maybe SL labels. > Less chance for AWS utility, especially there is such tool working under > z/OS. > > > > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
Converting to AWSTAPE is viable regardless of the label and record format. If MVS can handle the tape at all then it can handle the converted tape. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Farley, Peter x23353 [031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 2:03 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive Variable and U format will always be issues. Converting them on the PC to unlabeled AWSTAPE has similar issues. BUT I believe that IFF the original tape has standard header and trailer files, then AWSTAPE is realistic to use. Then the AWSTAPE file can be binary transferred to the MF and processed there with the mainframe AWSTAPE utility (or is it a HET utility? I don’t remember now). The key step is to capture the binary data with no translation from degrading 9-track. Figuring out how to successfully use it can come after that step. PC utilities like HXD (HexEdit) can view binary EBCDIC files with ease so you know what you are dealing with after you capture the data. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 1:48 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 17:30:38 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote: >Assuming the PC-attached SCSI tape drive comes with software to copy data from >the tape to a disk file without any translation you just have to copy the >files off the actual tape in binary and then FTP in binary up to your favorite >mainframe location. FTP is not binary by default but it is very easy to do >binary transfers (Letter I [eye] command then just PUT pr MPUT). > Block boundaries? Sometimes they matter, and RDWs and BDWs. Especially for RCFM=vBS such as IEBCOPY PDSU. And LRECL=X. AWSTAPE? -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
Presumably he's saying that nobody in his right mind would simply copy the data on the tape to a byte stream, and that the most obvious way to archive the tape is to convert it to AWSTAPE format. Once it's in AWSTAPE format, then it's simple to read it under Hercules, assuming that the labels and records follow OS/360 conventions. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Radoslaw Skorupka [r.skoru...@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 2:11 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive W dniu 04.06.2021 o 19:48, Paul Gilmartin pisze: > On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 17:30:38 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote: > >> Assuming the PC-attached SCSI tape drive comes with software to copy data >> from the tape to a disk file without any translation you just have to copy >> the files off the actual tape in binary and then FTP in binary up to your >> favorite mainframe location. FTP is not binary by default but it is very >> easy to do binary transfers (Letter I [eye] command then just PUT pr MPUT). >> > Block boundaries? Sometimes they matter, and RDWs and BDWs. Especially for > RCFM=vBS > such as IEBCOPY PDSU. And LRECL=X. > > AWSTAPE? Your brevity is excellent, but it doesn't explain what and how to do. I just checked CBTtape - there are MVS (z/OS) tools - unapplicable for PC. There is also Windows tool - AWS browser. Also unapplicable. There is another requirement here: to read REAL tape using PC tools. How to read? a) dataset by dataset b) whole tape => AWS tape image I believe there are tools to read tape and understand blocks and tapemarks, and maybe SL labels. Less chance for AWS utility, especially there is such tool working under z/OS. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
I meant of course SMOP issues. Without tape header/trailer files, additional programs/scripts are needed to handle V and U raw data correctly. (Note that I said DATA, not unloaded PDS/E or other backup-type tapes) With tape header/trailer files there are (or at least there ought to be . . .) available PC utilities that can copy the captured binary tape data with header and trailer to AWSTAPE or similar format for subsequent correct binary upload to MF without any loss of data or formatting. Or for distribution to archives, online or not. Even with header/trailer files, that kind of process may also require yet another SMOP, but I haven't had to do any such tape recovery myself yet, so I could be wrong. Assuming you meant IEBCOPY-format or other types of backup files and not U format DATA files, you’re right of course - the format is documented and available. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 5:37 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 18:03:04 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote: >Variable and U format will always be issues. > No. Why? > ... Converting them on the PC to unlabeled AWSTAPE has similar issues. > No. Why? Labels is just bytes. The format is documented and irrelevant. We once had an offline, in-house "Tape Replication System", hardware and software supplied by an overseas vendor. At some point the decision was made to move the system, physically and logically, to an out-of-state contractor and supply electronic images rather than physical tapes. I was tasked with replicating the internal data format. (hot AWSTAPE; should have been. I was not part of the specification process and would nor have bee aware of AWSTAPE in thee day.) I reverse-engineered the vendor's data format from their source code and wrote a Rexx program to generate the vendor's format from our master tapes, mounted overriding to RECFM=U,LABEL=BLP. Worked readily. My code didn't need to understand the formats of labels, BDWs, or RDWs. Bytes is bytes. One wrinkle was that Rexx in the day didn't handle RECFM=U -- I needed to add a REPRO step to convert U to VB. >BUT I believe that IFF the original tape has standard header and trailer >files, then AWSTAPE is realistic to use. Then the AWSTAPE file can be binary >transferred to the MF and processed there with the mainframe AWSTAPE utility >(or is it a HET utility? I don’t remember now). > >The key step is to capture the binary data with no translation from degrading >9-track. Figuring out how to successfully use it can come after that step. > >PC utilities like HXD (HexEdit) can view binary EBCDIC files with ease so you >know what you are dealing with after you capture the data. -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 18:03:04 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote: >Variable and U format will always be issues. > No. Why? > ... Converting them on the PC to unlabeled AWSTAPE has similar issues. > No. Why? Labels is just bytes. The format is documented and irrelevant. We once had an offline, in-house "Tape Replication System", hardware and software supplied by an overseas vendor. At some point the decision was made to move the system, physically and logically, to an out-of-state contractor and supply electronic images rather than physical tapes. I was tasked with replicating the internal data format. (hot AWSTAPE; should have been. I was not part of the specification process and would nor have bee aware of AWSTAPE in thee day.) I reverse-engineered the vendor's data format from their source code and wrote a Rexx program to generate the vendor's format from our master tapes, mounted overriding to RECFM=U,LABEL=BLP. Worked readily. My code didn't need to understand the formats of labels, BDWs, or RDWs. Bytes is bytes. One wrinkle was that Rexx in the day didn't handle RECFM=U -- I needed to add a REPRO step to convert U to VB. >BUT I believe that IFF the original tape has standard header and trailer >files, then AWSTAPE is realistic to use. Then the AWSTAPE file can be binary >transferred to the MF and processed there with the mainframe AWSTAPE utility >(or is it a HET utility? I don’t remember now). > >The key step is to capture the binary data with no translation from degrading >9-track. Figuring out how to successfully use it can come after that step. > >PC utilities like HXD (HexEdit) can view binary EBCDIC files with ease so you >know what you are dealing with after you capture the data. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 at 14:12, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: > W dniu 04.06.2021 o 19:48, Paul Gilmartin pisze: > > Block boundaries? Sometimes they matter, and RDWs and BDWs. Especially > > for RCFM=vBS > > such as IEBCOPY PDSU. And LRECL=X. > > > > AWSTAPE? > > Your brevity is excellent, but it doesn't explain what and how to do. The fundamental problem is that a tape - whether 3420-type (9-track, several possible BPIs and recording techniques), or more modern 3480, 3490, etc. - cannot be represented by a byte stream. It's not a simple matter of binary vs character or the like; there is out-of-band data - tape marks, block lengths, EOFs, and maybe a couple more. So AWS is a solution (one of several) that represents a tape as a byte stream. The original AWS format is very simple and well documented by IBM, though there are a few incompatible extensions made by at least IBM, Funsoft, and the Hercules developers. It is trivial to write a program (REXX, C, COBOL?, whatever) to read an AWS file and convert it into something useful, for example a sequential file for each tape file. This can run on any platform, and of course the target file format will to some extent be platform specific. > I just checked CBTtape - there are MVS (z/OS) tools - unapplicable for PC. > There is also Windows tool - AWS browser. Also unapplicable. Why unapplicable? > There is another requirement here: to read REAL tape using PC tools. > How to read? > a) dataset by dataset > b) whole tape => AWS tape image The usual approach that I've used many times is to use the Hercules tapecopy program, which runs on any system that can host Hercules, i.e. pretty much any UNIX-like system, or Windows. It reads a physical tape (assuming some minimal driver support for the host OS), and writes an AWS file. Then you write a program to process that file, or you use one of several standard tools (awsbrowse - there are a couple of different programs with this name, but you dismiss it for some reason) to copy the data you want and convert it into something you can make use of. > I believe there are tools to read tape and understand blocks and > tapemarks, and maybe SL labels. > Less chance for AWS utility, especially there is such tool working under z/OS. I don't understand what this last bit means. AWS format is so simple that anyone can easily write a program to handle it. But finally, the OP's requirement is unclear to me. He speaks of archiving some tapes, so presumably there is a wish to not keep the physical tapes which use 1960s/70s densities, are likely to continue to deteriorate in storage, and anyway could probably all fit on a little USB stick. No problem to use AWS format and then put the USB stick in the vault. Or the cloud, or whatever. But what is needed when it comes time to retrieve the archive and do with the data? PC tools? Restore to z/OS 5.9 or something in 2042? All is possible - there are z/OS tools to read an AWS file and write to a real tape drive. Or of course Hercules tapecopy can do the same thing on a PC. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
W dniu 04.06.2021 o 19:48, Paul Gilmartin pisze: On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 17:30:38 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote: Assuming the PC-attached SCSI tape drive comes with software to copy data from the tape to a disk file without any translation you just have to copy the files off the actual tape in binary and then FTP in binary up to your favorite mainframe location. FTP is not binary by default but it is very easy to do binary transfers (Letter I [eye] command then just PUT pr MPUT). Block boundaries? Sometimes they matter, and RDWs and BDWs. Especially for RCFM=vBS such as IEBCOPY PDSU. And LRECL=X. AWSTAPE? Your brevity is excellent, but it doesn't explain what and how to do. I just checked CBTtape - there are MVS (z/OS) tools - unapplicable for PC. There is also Windows tool - AWS browser. Also unapplicable. There is another requirement here: to read REAL tape using PC tools. How to read? a) dataset by dataset b) whole tape => AWS tape image I believe there are tools to read tape and understand blocks and tapemarks, and maybe SL labels. Less chance for AWS utility, especially there is such tool working under z/OS. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
Variable and U format will always be issues. Converting them on the PC to unlabeled AWSTAPE has similar issues. BUT I believe that IFF the original tape has standard header and trailer files, then AWSTAPE is realistic to use. Then the AWSTAPE file can be binary transferred to the MF and processed there with the mainframe AWSTAPE utility (or is it a HET utility? I don’t remember now). The key step is to capture the binary data with no translation from degrading 9-track. Figuring out how to successfully use it can come after that step. PC utilities like HXD (HexEdit) can view binary EBCDIC files with ease so you know what you are dealing with after you capture the data. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 1:48 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 17:30:38 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote: >Assuming the PC-attached SCSI tape drive comes with software to copy data from >the tape to a disk file without any translation you just have to copy the >files off the actual tape in binary and then FTP in binary up to your favorite >mainframe location. FTP is not binary by default but it is very easy to do >binary transfers (Letter I [eye] command then just PUT pr MPUT). > Block boundaries? Sometimes they matter, and RDWs and BDWs. Especially for RCFM=vBS such as IEBCOPY PDSU. And LRECL=X. AWSTAPE? -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 17:30:38 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote: >Assuming the PC-attached SCSI tape drive comes with software to copy data from >the tape to a disk file without any translation you just have to copy the >files off the actual tape in binary and then FTP in binary up to your favorite >mainframe location. FTP is not binary by default but it is very easy to do >binary transfers (Letter I [eye] command then just PUT pr MPUT). > Block boundaries? Sometimes they matter, and RDWs and BDWs. Especially for RCFM=vBS such as IEBCOPY PDSU. And LRECL=X. AWSTAPE? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
Assuming the PC-attached SCSI tape drive comes with software to copy data from the tape to a disk file without any translation you just have to copy the files off the actual tape in binary and then FTP in binary up to your favorite mainframe location. FTP is not binary by default but it is very easy to do binary transfers (Letter I [eye] command then just PUT pr MPUT). I did some research on the Overland company. It looks like they were taken over by Tandberg and then by a venture capital outfit that already owned or bought Tandberg. Now the Overland-Tandberg site lists only LTO tape drives for sale, no 9-track at all. So eBay is your only friend here unless you have a commercial service in your geographic area. I know of one in the NYC area (ElectroValue in Hoboken, NJ) but I have never tried to use them so I don’t know what prices are like for one-offs or small batches of tapes. Ditto national conversion shops in the USA like DataDesignInc in Oklahoma. To the OP: Secure Data Recovery claims to have multiple Florida locations, might be worth checking them out. HTH Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 10:39 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive EXTERNAL EMAIL On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 9:06 AM Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 15:37:18 +0200, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: > > >OK, it can be connected to PC. > >SCSI? Still available, but not very up to date. Nevermind, you can > >have older PC. > >However... what next? > > > AWSTAPE? > > >... What software to use? How to read mainframe datasets? > >I'm sure there are such tools, but I don't know any. > >Last, but not least: it would be easy to read text datasets, but > >things are getting harder with binary formats or ADRDSSU/FDR dumps. > >Or other tools. > > -- gil AWSTAPE useable with zPDt and Hercules. Sort can unpack binary and floating point numbers. FTP will convert to ASCII if you are going that route. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 9:06 AM Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 15:37:18 +0200, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: > > >OK, it can be connected to PC. > >SCSI? Still available, but not very up to date. Nevermind, you can have > >older PC. > >However... what next? > > > AWSTAPE? > > >... What software to use? How to read mainframe datasets? > >I'm sure there are such tools, but I don't know any. > >Last, but not least: it would be easy to read text datasets, but things > >are getting harder with binary formats or ADRDSSU/FDR dumps. Or other > >tools. > > -- gil AWSTAPE useable with zPDt and Hercules. Sort can unpack binary and floating point numbers. FTP will convert to ASCII if you are going that route. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
Not sure they are even available any more. I found a 9 track Overland from Sunstar but not from Overland. We never used them for FDR or DFDSS backups, just to get at old archived application data. The tapes were EBCDIC created and restored to the PC as EBCDIC, then binary FTP'ed up to the mainframe. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Radoslaw Skorupka Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 8:37 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive OK, it can be connected to PC. SCSI? Still available, but not very up to date. Nevermind, you can have older PC. However... what next? What software to use? How to read mainframe datasets? I'm sure there are such tools, but I don't know any. Last, but not least: it would be easy to read text datasets, but things are getting harder with binary formats or ADRDSSU/FDR dumps. Or other tools. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 04.06.2021 o 15:16, Charles Mills pisze: > I used to have an Overland Tape drive. You don't hook it up Bus & Tag you > hook it up to a PC. IIRC ours was SCSI-attached. It came with software, and > there are APIs -- I wrote some additional software (in-house use, quick and > dirty type stuff). You get the data off of the tape and then you send it off > wherever you want it. > > Charles > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Radoslaw Skorupka > Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 1:32 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive > > Obviously it is possible to get (buy) 3420 compatible tape drive. > However it is not so cheap. Tape drive is connected using Bus & Tag > interface, so one would need to buy ESCON converter and FICON converter. > I just checked: > $8500 for tape drive > $130 for ESCON converted (new, Optica brand, but from some broker) > $5 for FICON converter > > Of course the prices may vary significantly. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 15:37:18 +0200, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: >OK, it can be connected to PC. >SCSI? Still available, but not very up to date. Nevermind, you can have >older PC. >However... what next? > AWSTAPE? >... What software to use? How to read mainframe datasets? >I'm sure there are such tools, but I don't know any. >Last, but not least: it would be easy to read text datasets, but things >are getting harder with binary formats or ADRDSSU/FDR dumps. Or other >tools. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
OK, it can be connected to PC. SCSI? Still available, but not very up to date. Nevermind, you can have older PC. However... what next? What software to use? How to read mainframe datasets? I'm sure there are such tools, but I don't know any. Last, but not least: it would be easy to read text datasets, but things are getting harder with binary formats or ADRDSSU/FDR dumps. Or other tools. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 04.06.2021 o 15:16, Charles Mills pisze: I used to have an Overland Tape drive. You don't hook it up Bus & Tag you hook it up to a PC. IIRC ours was SCSI-attached. It came with software, and there are APIs -- I wrote some additional software (in-house use, quick and dirty type stuff). You get the data off of the tape and then you send it off wherever you want it. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Radoslaw Skorupka Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 1:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive Obviously it is possible to get (buy) 3420 compatible tape drive. However it is not so cheap. Tape drive is connected using Bus & Tag interface, so one would need to buy ESCON converter and FICON converter. I just checked: $8500 for tape drive $130 for ESCON converted (new, Optica brand, but from some broker) $5 for FICON converter Of course the prices may vary significantly. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
I used to have an Overland Tape drive. You don't hook it up Bus & Tag you hook it up to a PC. IIRC ours was SCSI-attached. It came with software, and there are APIs -- I wrote some additional software (in-house use, quick and dirty type stuff). You get the data off of the tape and then you send it off wherever you want it. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Radoslaw Skorupka Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 1:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive Obviously it is possible to get (buy) 3420 compatible tape drive. However it is not so cheap. Tape drive is connected using Bus & Tag interface, so one would need to buy ESCON converter and FICON converter. I just checked: $8500 for tape drive $130 for ESCON converted (new, Optica brand, but from some broker) $5 for FICON converter Of course the prices may vary significantly. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
That was the beauty of the Overland product. It attached to a (I think) SCSI interface into a PC and didn't have the B overhead. Now, if you really want the B feature, I have a PRISM Ficon convertor appliance and I think I still have a couple ESBT Escon to B convertors that I could sell somebody cheap. We stopped using them a few months ago and they're collecting dust. :-) Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Radoslaw Skorupka Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 3:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive Obviously it is possible to get (buy) 3420 compatible tape drive. However it is not so cheap. Tape drive is connected using Bus & Tag interface, so one would need to buy ESCON converter and FICON converter. I just checked: $8500 for tape drive $130 for ESCON converted (new, Optica brand, but from some broker) $5 for FICON converter Of course the prices may vary significantly. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 03.06.2021 o 18:38, Pommier, Rex pisze: > We went through this a couple years ago with a bunch of 3480/3490 tapes and > had a LOT of tape checks resulting from bad spots on the media. I'd actually > be surprised if you can get much usable info off 3420 type tapes. > > If you can't find a reasonably priced service, you could check with Overland > Data. At some point they sold a desktop 9 track drive that was compatible > with 3420 style tapes. At a prior site, when we eliminated the 3420s we > purchased one of these to allow us to get to the occasional 6250 bpi tape. > > Good luck, > Rex > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Radoslaw Skorupka > Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 10:05 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive > > There are such services available, GIYF. > Note: usually the service is to copy dataset from tape to some contemporary > medium like USB stick. > No conversion, etc. > > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > > > > W dniu 03.06.2021 o 04:56, Mark S Waterbury pisze: >> Does anyone know of anyone in (or near) Central Florida (private individual >> or company) with a working mainframe compatible 9-track tape drive capable >> of reading tape reels recorded at 1600 or 6250 BPI density? >> >> I have a number of old tapes that need to be copied and archived, for >> "posterity." >> >> Please advise. >> >> Feel free to reply privately if you prefer. >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Mark S. Waterbury >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering > this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in > reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in > electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
Obviously it is possible to get (buy) 3420 compatible tape drive. However it is not so cheap. Tape drive is connected using Bus & Tag interface, so one would need to buy ESCON converter and FICON converter. I just checked: $8500 for tape drive $130 for ESCON converted (new, Optica brand, but from some broker) $5 for FICON converter Of course the prices may vary significantly. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 03.06.2021 o 18:38, Pommier, Rex pisze: We went through this a couple years ago with a bunch of 3480/3490 tapes and had a LOT of tape checks resulting from bad spots on the media. I'd actually be surprised if you can get much usable info off 3420 type tapes. If you can't find a reasonably priced service, you could check with Overland Data. At some point they sold a desktop 9 track drive that was compatible with 3420 style tapes. At a prior site, when we eliminated the 3420s we purchased one of these to allow us to get to the occasional 6250 bpi tape. Good luck, Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Radoslaw Skorupka Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 10:05 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive There are such services available, GIYF. Note: usually the service is to copy dataset from tape to some contemporary medium like USB stick. No conversion, etc. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 03.06.2021 o 04:56, Mark S Waterbury pisze: Does anyone know of anyone in (or near) Central Florida (private individual or company) with a working mainframe compatible 9-track tape drive capable of reading tape reels recorded at 1600 or 6250 BPI density? I have a number of old tapes that need to be copied and archived, for "posterity." Please advise. Feel free to reply privately if you prefer. Thanks in advance. Mark S. Waterbury -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
Many law firms specializing in software infringement cases either have, or have access to, all kinds of tape drives. David -Original Message- From: Pommier, Rex To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Thu, Jun 3, 2021 12:38 pm Subject: Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive We went through this a couple years ago with a bunch of 3480/3490 tapes and had a LOT of tape checks resulting from bad spots on the media. I'd actually be surprised if you can get much usable info off 3420 type tapes. If you can't find a reasonably priced service, you could check with Overland Data. At some point they sold a desktop 9 track drive that was compatible with 3420 style tapes. At a prior site, when we eliminated the 3420s we purchased one of these to allow us to get to the occasional 6250 bpi tape. Good luck, Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Radoslaw Skorupka Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 10:05 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive There are such services available, GIYF. Note: usually the service is to copy dataset from tape to some contemporary medium like USB stick. No conversion, etc. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 03.06.2021 o 04:56, Mark S Waterbury pisze: > Does anyone know of anyone in (or near) Central Florida (private individual > or company) with a working mainframe compatible 9-track tape drive capable of > reading tape reels recorded at 1600 or 6250 BPI density? > > I have a number of old tapes that need to be copied and archived, for > "posterity." > > Please advise. > > Feel free to reply privately if you prefer. > > Thanks in advance. > > Mark S. Waterbury > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive
We went through this a couple years ago with a bunch of 3480/3490 tapes and had a LOT of tape checks resulting from bad spots on the media. I'd actually be surprised if you can get much usable info off 3420 type tapes. If you can't find a reasonably priced service, you could check with Overland Data. At some point they sold a desktop 9 track drive that was compatible with 3420 style tapes. At a prior site, when we eliminated the 3420s we purchased one of these to allow us to get to the occasional 6250 bpi tape. Good luck, Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Radoslaw Skorupka Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 10:05 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: access to 9-track reel tape drive There are such services available, GIYF. Note: usually the service is to copy dataset from tape to some contemporary medium like USB stick. No conversion, etc. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 03.06.2021 o 04:56, Mark S Waterbury pisze: > Does anyone know of anyone in (or near) Central Florida (private individual > or company) with a working mainframe compatible 9-track tape drive capable of > reading tape reels recorded at 1600 or 6250 BPI density? > > I have a number of old tapes that need to be copied and archived, for > "posterity." > > Please advise. > > Feel free to reply privately if you prefer. > > Thanks in advance. > > Mark S. Waterbury > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
