Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Online lookup is coming

[David Cole]

Thank you Yvonne for your feedback. It's all good news, especially 
that you're actively working on the online lookup capability.


The jumpiness occurred on the components page. it seemed to result 
from dropdowns that I had opened up suddenly closing for reasons unclear to me.


At other web sites, especially those that are heavily overloaded with 
ads, a similar jumpiness occurs as additional ad images/videos 
complete their downloads. As each object reserves its space on the 
web page, positioning jumps around even though the loaded object is 
not in view.


DocBuddy, of course does not download ads. I'm just saying that the 
effect was similar.


IHTH,
Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:dbc...@colesoft.com

Home page:   www.colesoft.com
LinkedIn:www.xdc.com
Facebook:www.facebook.com/colesoftware
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/colesoftware






At 12/8/2016 04:49 AM, Jialei Ma wrote:
Susan, thank you for forwarding us the feedback. Thank you everyone 
for your comments and suggestions for the IBM Doc Buddy app.
I am Yvonne Ma, project manager of the app. You can send any future 
comments for the app to our support email account spt...@cn.ibm.com. 
We also would like to understand more about the jumpy list problem 
some of you mentioned. We'd appreciate it if any of you will be able 
to clarify the problem you encountered by writing to us.

Here are our responses to some of your suggestions:
* Message downloads and new user tutorials
We agree that it will be helpful to point first-time users to the 
download page and add other tutorials. We've added this to our 
requirements list. I'd also like to mention that we've started 
working on the online lookup function; that is, you will no longer 
need to download the message sets before looking up a message in a 
future release.

* Mapping between a message prefix and component
Our app provides the mapping of a message prefix to the component 
that you need to download. For instance, if you enter AB as a 
message prefix, CICS, MVS, z/TPF, and z/VM will be displayed on the 
More tab as recommended components for you to download as these 
components have messages that start with AB. Again, we believe that 
we need to improve the current wording on the Local tab to make the 
mapping provided more obvious.

* Download status meter
As Susan has pointed it out, once you start to download a certain 
release, the download status meter is shown on the More tab. Another 
place to manage or view the download status or downloaded components 
is the Management tab from the Components menu.

* Keyboard disappearing when all text is cleared
Thank you for the suggestion. We will fix this in a future release.
Thank you all again for your feedback. We will continue improving 
the app in future updates.

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Jialei Ma]

Susan, thank you for forwarding us the feedback. Thank you everyone for your 
comments and suggestions for the IBM Doc Buddy app.

I am Yvonne Ma, project manager of the app. You can send any future comments 
for the app to our support email account spt...@cn.ibm.com. We also would like 
to understand more about the jumpy list problem some of you mentioned. We'd 
appreciate it if any of you will be able to clarify the problem you encountered 
by writing to us. 

Here are our responses to some of your suggestions:
* Message downloads and new user tutorials
We agree that it will be helpful to point first-time users to the download page 
and add other tutorials. We've added this to our requirements list. I'd also 
like to mention that we've started working on the online lookup function; that 
is, you will no longer need to download the message sets before looking up a 
message in a future release.

* Mapping between a message prefix and component
Our app provides the mapping of a message prefix to the component that you need 
to download. For instance, if you enter AB as a message prefix, CICS, MVS, 
z/TPF, and z/VM will be displayed on the More tab as recommended components for 
you to download as these components have messages that start with AB. Again, we 
believe that we need to improve the current wording on the Local tab to make 
the mapping provided more obvious. 

* Download status meter
As Susan has pointed it out, once you start to download a certain release, the 
download status meter is shown on the More tab. Another place to manage or view 
the download status or downloaded components is the Management tab from the 
Components menu.

* Keyboard disappearing when all text is cleared
Thank you for the suggestion. We will fix this in a future release. 

Thank you all again for your feedback. We will continue improving the app in 
future updates. 

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[David Cole]

Byzantine!!! Boy you can say that again!



At 12/7/2016 12:13 PM, Gord Tomlin wrote:


On 2016-12-06 17:03, Dave Juraschek wrote:

Apparently UX/UI is big stuff now.
It has been for a long time. Jakob Nielsen has been leading the 
charge in this space for years: https://www.nngroup.com/
A good (and short!) book on the topic is "Don't Make Me Think" by 
Steve Krug.
IBM's Byzantine web sites and web apps suggest that they haven't 
been looking.

--
Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
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Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:dbc...@colesoft.com

Home page:   www.colesoft.com
LinkedIn:www.xdc.com
Facebook:www.facebook.com/colesoftware
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/colesoftware  


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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Gord Tomlin]

On 2016-12-06 17:03, Dave Juraschek wrote:

Apparently UX/UI is big stuff now.


It has been for a long time. Jakob Nielsen has been leading the charge 
in this space for years: https://www.nngroup.com/


A good (and short!) book on the topic is "Don't Make Me Think" by Steve 
Krug.


IBM's Byzantine web sites and web apps suggest that they haven't been 
looking.


--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Dave Juraschek]

I agree.

Apparently UX/UI is big stuff now.  

Still IBM, the once biggest computing company, doesn't see this stuff as 
relevant or important.   

IBM is still green screen, block thought, SNA exclusive oriented.

My son is now getting his Masters in UX/UI  (User Experience/User Interface).

Why isn't IBM snatching these kids up?

They are all going to companies who design web thingies and web services.  The 
current erotica.

I am so disappointed.

I wish my son could have had a future in an IBM system.  (A Tim Allen "Ruhr" 
system.)

Probably not.  

Linux/Oracle/MS is the future of computing.

IBM has abandoned anything else.

So sad.

-Dave

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Allan Staller]

This whole conversation about the merits/drawbacks of DocBuddy reminds me om my 
mantra for the last 5 years.

In "modernizing" their support tools. IBM is providing replacements that are 
neither as available, as functional, or as reliable as the items being replaced.



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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Tom Marchant]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 18:32:02 -0500, Susan Shumway wrote:

>IBM Knowledge Center allows you to use Boolean operators (AND/+, OR/|,
>NOT/-, and so on) to create complex queries.
>Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa
>   - Finds topics that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word DVIPA
>anywhere in the text.
>
>IBM Knowledge Center allows you to use search operators (intext, inurl,
>intitle, and so on) to create complex queries that further refine your
>search results.
>Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa intitle:introduction | intitle:overview
>   - Finds topics that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word DVIPA
>anywhere in the text AND that contain the word introduction or the word
>overview in the title.

Thanks for the tips. It would be helpful if these were included in the help 
for the search page. Some of them are. It says that you can use OR, but 
no mention of |, and, or +. No doubt there are other things missing. And 
I'd prefer if the search tips were first in the help.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[David Crayford]

On 6/12/2016 7:32 AM, Susan Shumway wrote:
I don't know about scripted access to KC search, but I can offer up 
some Google search tricks for those of you that prefer that method 
over the (still improving) KC search function. These are from a NaSPA 
deck I helped present early last year...




Why not provide a REST API for KC searches? Even better provide a 
bespoke API for looking up message IDs that sends a response in JSON lines.


IBM Knowledge Center allows you to use Boolean operators (AND/+, OR/|, 
NOT/-, and so on) to create complex queries.

Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa
  - Finds topics that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word 
DVIPA anywhere in the text.


IBM Knowledge Center allows you to use search operators (intext, 
inurl, intitle, and so on) to create complex queries that further 
refine your search results.

Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa intitle:introduction | intitle:overview
  - Finds topics that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word 
DVIPA anywhere in the text AND that contain the word introduction or 
the word overview in the title.


Each book in the z/OS library is assigned a unique identifier, which 
is included in its URL. For example, book identifier e0zm100 
corresponds to z/OS Migration. You can use the inurl search operator 
and the book's identifier to narrow the search results to a specific 
book. (The list of book identifiers is included in the presentation 
but is WAY too long to include here. Let me know if you're interested 
and I'll see if it's still online anywhere.)
Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa intitle:introduction | 
intitle:overview inurl:halz002
  - Finds topics in the "z/OS Communications Server: IP Configuration 
Guide" book that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word DVIPA 
anywhere in the text AND that contain the word introduction or the 
word overview in the title.
Tip: Book identifiers are also helpful during basic searching. If you 
hover over a topic title link in the search results, the displayed URL 
will contain the identifier of the containing book.





On 12/04/16 6:33 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Sun, 4 Dec 2016 10:31:13 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:


And as a side benefit, it does in fact work very nicely from an Android
device (and presumably also from an iOS device). (But unlike Doc 
Buddy, not

off-line.)

And also, as I said in another thread, it works for "everything," 
not just

messages.


I wonder how it compares to Google " site:ibm.com",
which I've been relying on?  Thanks for the suggestion.  An unfortunate
"search terms" for site:ibm.com is "program management" which gives
a basket of deplorable MBA-stuff but hardly any binder hits on the
first page.

Years ago, I wrote a script to drive LOOKAT into Lynx which I had
ported to MVS.  Nothing needed on the desktop except tn3270.

And there's Chicago Soft's Kwik-E-Ref (whatever) for $.

And John McKown lately pondered interfacing curl to ISPF Edit.
I just tried it.  It works, sorta, on simple things such as cbttape.org.
I'm not much moved to try it on KC.

http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/

Where did we fall off the path!?  I wonder whether Susan Shumway
has any thoughts on scripted access to KC search?

-- gil

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Susan Shumway]

Answered in sequence...

On 12/05/16 7:58 PM, Tony Harminc wrote:

On 5 December 2016 at 18:32, Susan Shumway  wrote:


I don't know about scripted access to KC search, but I can offer up some
Google search tricks for those of you that prefer that method over the
(still improving) KC search function. These are from a NaSPA deck I helped
present early last year...



Um, these all seem to be KC search tricks - not Google ones. Not that they
aren't useful - they are. Though I wish search providers could get their
acts together wrt syntax.

They're Google searches that, 99.9% of the time and as designed, land 
you in KC.



Each book in the z/OS library is assigned a unique identifier, which is
included in its URL. For example, book identifier e0zm100 corresponds to
z/OS Migration. You can use the inurl search operator and the book's
identifier to narrow the search results to a specific book. (The list of
book identifiers is included in the presentation but is WAY too long to
include here. Let me know if you're interested and I'll see if it's still
online anywhere.)
Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa intitle:introduction | intitle:overview
inurl:halz002



I don't know anyone who thinks of the books in terms of this kind of "book
identifier". In fact I'm not sure I've even heard that term before. I think
of the identifiers like halz002 as a file name, but to me this book is
SC27-3650. Actually, I realize now that I really don't know what halz002
is. I was thinking of the file names when I install the books locally, but
this book's name in that context is f1a2b300. So I think we already have
identifiers enough to go around...

Yes, I agree. This "book identifier" is gorpy and something for which 
you need that list I mentioned. (I just found it still online in the 
presentation we did for ECCC 2015: 
https://ecc.marist.edu/documents/375276/0/Burns-JohnsonKC_Hint_and_Tips_Final2.pdf) 
It's the most foolproof way to search only a single book from Google, 
though. Otherwise, there's no reason for you to think about it.



  - Finds topics in the "z/OS Communications Server: IP Configuration
Guide" book that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word DVIPA anywhere
in the text AND that contain the word introduction or the word overview in
the title.
Tip: Book identifiers are also helpful during basic searching. If you
hover over a topic title link in the search results, the displayed URL will
contain the identifier of the containing book.



Susan, perhaps you could explain the relationship of these three
identifiers for the same book? (I realize that SC27-3650 needs a dash
number to be complete, and the other two may include the version. But
still, why three?)

As I mentioned above, don't worry about the book identifier unless you 
want to use it to search individual books in Google. For that purpose, 
it's very powerful - just keep the list of identifiers handy. The 
background is that it's simply the (perhaps originally randomly 
assigned) name for the directory that contains a book's source code. 
When a book's KC plug-in is generated, its path includes that value. 
Since it's in the path, it's a perfect excuse to use inurl.


The PDF file name is another potentially originally randomly assigned 
value. It usually somewhat relates to the book identifier (source 
directory name), but sometimes not, and it's never exactly the same. 
We're hoping to make them much more similar in the future, though that 
shouldn't matter too much to you guys. Note that the PDF file name 
applies only to the PDFs... it doesn't matter in the KC space at all.


The form number is assigned for the use of the IBM Publications Center. 
The first two parts remain static throughout a z/OS version and the 
third part (the dash level) changes for every release and update. The 
form number also applies to only PDFs and doesn't matter in KC. If you 
search a form number in Google, though, you'll typically land somewhere 
near a link to the correct PDF.


FWIW, check out this outdated (circa V2R1) but still somewhat handy tool 
for matching book titles, PDF file names, and form numbers: 
http://www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/find_books.html 
(there's a link to it right from the z/OS Internet Library page: 
http://www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/).



And a little glitch while I'm looking at halz002: I'm on the page with URL
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.halz002/toc.htm
and I see the TOC for the IP Configuration Guide. Towards the upper left
there is a little pulldown with choices "Version 2.1.0" and "Version
2.2.0". If I click the 2.2.0 choice, I get sent to URL
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.halz001/toc.htm
which is for a different book (the Config Reference). Surely these aren't
kept up to date by hand...?

Wow, that's one I haven't seen before! There are many versioning issues 
that we've been ironing out, 

Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Susan Shumway]

Hi Tony,

I emailed the "spt...@cn.ibm.com" address that you also found. That's 
the official contact address for the IBM Doc Buddy development team, 
which is located in China (hence the "cn"). It's the only vehicle I know 
of for commenting or reporting problems on the app. From what I've 
heard, they've very responsive.


Please email this (excellent) additional feedback directly to them so 
you're not stuck with a middlewoman.


-Sue Shumway

On 12/05/16 9:03 PM, Tony Harminc wrote:

On 5 December 2016 at 17:35, Susan Shumway  wrote:


This is actually very valuable feedback - thanks! I forwarded it on to the
Doc Buddy team.



Hi again, Susan. Is there somewhere official (or semi-official) to sumit
problems with Doc Buddy. I imagine it's not formally supported, but I'm not
sure if all the whining here on IBM-MAIN is the best way to get info to the
developers.

There is a home page ibmdocbuddy.mybluemix.net but no forum or FAQ or the
like. The contact info is a mailto: link to spt...@cn.ibm.com .

Nonetheless I will start here with some new and two previously reported
issues, and maybe you can forward.

1) I run my Android phone with font size set to Huge. This app does not
handle that at all well. This is not uncommon, because so many Android
developers are, shall we say, around 22 years old, and have no idea what
kind of vision issues we 60+ types have. So I find truncated keywords, the
download file choice says "Release date: 2016-08-19 Size..." (with no way
to see the rest), impossibly tiny items (the "% downloaded" icon looks to
be about 3x3 pixels; I literally got out a magnifying glass because even my
reading glasses wouldn't make it visible). I suggest to them that they set
their phone to huge fonts and check out their own app.

2) The disappearing keyboard problem is real and annoying. This clearly
does not follow Android design principles. Without being able to articulate
those principles directly, as an end user I am now quite comfortably able
to predict when an app will show the keyboard, and when it will go away.
This app is different, and there are also cases where the keyboard does not
go away when it should.

3) One review on Google Play said there are thousands of little files
installed (actually 21,705 files for z/OS MVS on my phone!), and that this
plays havoc with CPU and battery usage and SD-card management. I don't know
about the wisdom of this, but my phone has indeed got unusually warm just
now as I downloaded and looked up a few messages in the z/OS MVS component.
(No, it's not a Galaxy Note 7.) As I write, my phone is losing charge even
though plugged in. Not good!

4) What is the purpose/intent of the "my contact" stuff? I surely don't
need an app that, on the side, stores one single phone number for some
reason. It's certainly not an IBM contact who can help with the messages!
Perhaps if they could explain what this is for I might get it.

5) Navigation in general is odd, and again, doesn't seem to follow Android
expectations. It's unclear why there are two places to enter a message ID.
The main screen is the obvious one, but there's a second level that
(sometimes) remembers things entered, while the main screen does not. This
second level can be reached directly from the menu choice "Search", or one
can back up to it from a message explanation, in which case the little
teardrop editing thing appears for no obvious reason.

Enough for one post.

Tony H.

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--
Sue Shumway
z/OS Product Documentation Lead
IBM Poughkeepsie
chale...@us.ibm.com

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Tony Harminc]

On 5 December 2016 at 17:35, Susan Shumway  wrote:

> This is actually very valuable feedback - thanks! I forwarded it on to the
> Doc Buddy team.
>

Hi again, Susan. Is there somewhere official (or semi-official) to sumit
problems with Doc Buddy. I imagine it's not formally supported, but I'm not
sure if all the whining here on IBM-MAIN is the best way to get info to the
developers.

There is a home page ibmdocbuddy.mybluemix.net but no forum or FAQ or the
like. The contact info is a mailto: link to spt...@cn.ibm.com .

Nonetheless I will start here with some new and two previously reported
issues, and maybe you can forward.

1) I run my Android phone with font size set to Huge. This app does not
handle that at all well. This is not uncommon, because so many Android
developers are, shall we say, around 22 years old, and have no idea what
kind of vision issues we 60+ types have. So I find truncated keywords, the
download file choice says "Release date: 2016-08-19 Size..." (with no way
to see the rest), impossibly tiny items (the "% downloaded" icon looks to
be about 3x3 pixels; I literally got out a magnifying glass because even my
reading glasses wouldn't make it visible). I suggest to them that they set
their phone to huge fonts and check out their own app.

2) The disappearing keyboard problem is real and annoying. This clearly
does not follow Android design principles. Without being able to articulate
those principles directly, as an end user I am now quite comfortably able
to predict when an app will show the keyboard, and when it will go away.
This app is different, and there are also cases where the keyboard does not
go away when it should.

3) One review on Google Play said there are thousands of little files
installed (actually 21,705 files for z/OS MVS on my phone!), and that this
plays havoc with CPU and battery usage and SD-card management. I don't know
about the wisdom of this, but my phone has indeed got unusually warm just
now as I downloaded and looked up a few messages in the z/OS MVS component.
(No, it's not a Galaxy Note 7.) As I write, my phone is losing charge even
though plugged in. Not good!

4) What is the purpose/intent of the "my contact" stuff? I surely don't
need an app that, on the side, stores one single phone number for some
reason. It's certainly not an IBM contact who can help with the messages!
Perhaps if they could explain what this is for I might get it.

5) Navigation in general is odd, and again, doesn't seem to follow Android
expectations. It's unclear why there are two places to enter a message ID.
The main screen is the obvious one, but there's a second level that
(sometimes) remembers things entered, while the main screen does not. This
second level can be reached directly from the menu choice "Search", or one
can back up to it from a message explanation, in which case the little
teardrop editing thing appears for no obvious reason.

Enough for one post.

Tony H.

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Tony Harminc]

On 5 December 2016 at 18:32, Susan Shumway  wrote:

> I don't know about scripted access to KC search, but I can offer up some
> Google search tricks for those of you that prefer that method over the
> (still improving) KC search function. These are from a NaSPA deck I helped
> present early last year...
>

Um, these all seem to be KC search tricks - not Google ones. Not that they
aren't useful - they are. Though I wish search providers could get their
acts together wrt syntax.


> Each book in the z/OS library is assigned a unique identifier, which is
> included in its URL. For example, book identifier e0zm100 corresponds to
> z/OS Migration. You can use the inurl search operator and the book's
> identifier to narrow the search results to a specific book. (The list of
> book identifiers is included in the presentation but is WAY too long to
> include here. Let me know if you're interested and I'll see if it's still
> online anywhere.)
> Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa intitle:introduction | intitle:overview
> inurl:halz002
>

I don't know anyone who thinks of the books in terms of this kind of "book
identifier". In fact I'm not sure I've even heard that term before. I think
of the identifiers like halz002 as a file name, but to me this book is
SC27-3650. Actually, I realize now that I really don't know what halz002
is. I was thinking of the file names when I install the books locally, but
this book's name in that context is f1a2b300. So I think we already have
identifiers enough to go around...


>   - Finds topics in the "z/OS Communications Server: IP Configuration
> Guide" book that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word DVIPA anywhere
> in the text AND that contain the word introduction or the word overview in
> the title.
> Tip: Book identifiers are also helpful during basic searching. If you
> hover over a topic title link in the search results, the displayed URL will
> contain the identifier of the containing book.
>

Susan, perhaps you could explain the relationship of these three
identifiers for the same book? (I realize that SC27-3650 needs a dash
number to be complete, and the other two may include the version. But
still, why three?)

And a little glitch while I'm looking at halz002: I'm on the page with URL
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.halz002/toc.htm
and I see the TOC for the IP Configuration Guide. Towards the upper left
there is a little pulldown with choices "Version 2.1.0" and "Version
2.2.0". If I click the 2.2.0 choice, I get sent to URL
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.halz001/toc.htm
which is for a different book (the Config Reference). Surely these aren't
kept up to date by hand...?

Thanks...

Tony H.

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Susan Shumway]

I don't know about scripted access to KC search, but I can offer up some 
Google search tricks for those of you that prefer that method over the 
(still improving) KC search function. These are from a NaSPA deck I 
helped present early last year...


IBM Knowledge Center allows you to use Boolean operators (AND/+, OR/|, 
NOT/-, and so on) to create complex queries.

Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa
  - Finds topics that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word DVIPA 
anywhere in the text.


IBM Knowledge Center allows you to use search operators (intext, inurl, 
intitle, and so on) to create complex queries that further refine your 
search results.

Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa intitle:introduction | intitle:overview
  - Finds topics that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word DVIPA 
anywhere in the text AND that contain the word introduction or the word 
overview in the title.


Each book in the z/OS library is assigned a unique identifier, which is 
included in its URL. For example, book identifier e0zm100 corresponds to 
z/OS Migration. You can use the inurl search operator and the book's 
identifier to narrow the search results to a specific book. (The list of 
book identifiers is included in the presentation but is WAY too long to 
include here. Let me know if you're interested and I'll see if it's 
still online anywhere.)
Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa intitle:introduction | intitle:overview 
inurl:halz002
  - Finds topics in the "z/OS Communications Server: IP Configuration 
Guide" book that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word DVIPA 
anywhere in the text AND that contain the word introduction or the word 
overview in the title.
Tip: Book identifiers are also helpful during basic searching. If you 
hover over a topic title link in the search results, the displayed URL 
will contain the identifier of the containing book.





On 12/04/16 6:33 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Sun, 4 Dec 2016 10:31:13 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:


And as a side benefit, it does in fact work very nicely from an Android
device (and presumably also from an iOS device). (But unlike Doc Buddy, not
off-line.)

And also, as I said in another thread, it works for "everything," not just
messages.


I wonder how it compares to Google " site:ibm.com",
which I've been relying on?  Thanks for the suggestion.  An unfortunate
"search terms" for site:ibm.com is "program management" which gives
a basket of deplorable MBA-stuff but hardly any binder hits on the
first page.

Years ago, I wrote a script to drive LOOKAT into Lynx which I had
ported to MVS.  Nothing needed on the desktop except tn3270.

And there's Chicago Soft's Kwik-E-Ref (whatever) for $.

And John McKown lately pondered interfacing curl to ISPF Edit.
I just tried it.  It works, sorta, on simple things such as cbttape.org.
I'm not much moved to try it on KC.

http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/

Where did we fall off the path!?  I wonder whether Susan Shumway
has any thoughts on scripted access to KC search?

-- gil

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z/OS Product Documentation Lead
IBM Poughkeepsie
chale...@us.ibm.com

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Susan Shumway]

This is actually very valuable feedback - thanks! I forwarded it on to 
the Doc Buddy team. (I did happen to also see your snark apology, so I 
paraphrased your comments. ;-) )


Here's what I sent. If there's anything any of you want added to it, let 
me know...


A customer recently posted some comments on IBM Doc Buddy on the 
IBM-MAIN listserv. I've paraphrased them here and added some suggestions 
for actions:


It's not at all obvious that users need to download message sets before 
they'll get a result from a search. (Per the customer: "there's no 
mention of this, no startup tips, tricks or just general heads-up is put 
in front of you.. Nothing. You install the app, and you're on your own."
Action: Add something that directs users to download the message sets 
that they need before trying to search. Perhaps, instead of opening the 
app to the search page, it opens to a page that lists the downloaded 
message sets, at least when first opened? Or, perhaps better and 
simpler... many apps have "welcome to the app" pages that first display, 
and users can select to turn them off. Such a page could prove very 
useful here to mention that users need to first download message sets.


It's difficult to know which component to download for certain messages. 
There's no way to tell which component contains which messages.
Action: Make it more obvious which messages are included in which 
components so that users know which components to download. Perhaps have 
two views of the message sets: Component name and message ID prefixes. 
Or maybe have a "more information" option for each component name in the 
list (both the "Components" and "Management" lists) that lists all 
include message ID prefixes.


It's hard to tell if a message set has finished downloading because 
there's no status display.
Action: Add in some sort of status meter that identifies how much of a 
component has downloaded, or at least that it's still downloading and 
when it's finished. (Oh, I now see exactly this in the "More" section 
after a search - please apply it everywhere!)


Per the customer: "The individual messages sets are hidden in dropdowns 
that [go] back into hiding on you rather quickly..." I'm not sure what 
he means here. There's apparently a drop-down that doesn't display long 
enough.


Per the customer: "The components list keeps jumping around on you 
because dropdowns that you've opened up spontaneously close causing the 
page to jump up, jump down, jump whatever." I haven't personally noticed 
this, but apparently it's a problem on some installations. This is 
probably related to the previous item.
Action: Ensure that, when a user expands a component, it stays expanded 
until closed by the user.


The keyboard disappears whenever text is cleared from the search field. 
This looks like a quirk or a bug to me. The keyboard should remain open 
and the cursor remain in the search box even if all text is cleared.
Action: Keep the keyboard open and the cursor placed in the search box 
even if all text is cleared.


On 12/02/16 4:42 PM, David Cole wrote:

There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.



Tried it. Don't much like it at all!






Ok, I've just now downloaded and installed Doc Buddy (Android version).
And the best I can say about it is, whoever designed the UI really
didn't put much effort into it. I mean seriously, doesn't IBM put these
things out for real world testing first? Then do they even listen to the
feedback???

#1) So I installed the app, and of course the very first thing I did was
type in some message ids. Nothing too esoteric. just basic ancient stuff
like, I don't know, do you think it'd be able to find IEF450I??? Nope...
ASMA033I? Nope... Anything? Nope nope nopity nope!

#2) It turns out you then have to download... I don't know what IBM
calls them... I'll just call them "message sets". These are organized by
component. But there's no mention of this, no startup tips, tricks or
just general heads-up is put in front of you.. Nothing. You install the
app, and you're on your own. [Pro-tip: Go to the "Component" page.]

#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message definitions,
the next thing you need to know is to which component a particular
message belongs. Quick... does anybody know what IEF540I belongs to?
'Cause  apparently I don't. I've downloaded a bunch, and while other
messages are now findable, the IEF messages aren't. (At least not yet.)

#4) Maybe that message set hasn't downloaded yet. It's hard to tell
because there is no status display. The individual messages sets are
hidden in dropdowns that have the very annoying habit of going back into
hiding on you rather quickly...

#5) And that's another thing. The components list keeps jumping around
on you because dropdowns that you've opened up spontaneously close
causing the page to jump up, jump down, jump whatever. Come on guys!
Can't you stabilize a display long enough for somebody to touch a

Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Tom Marchant]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 16:42:43 -0500, David Cole wrote:

>Tried it. Don't much like it at all!

I tried it, just to see what it is like. I can't really say that I liked it, 
but then I never liked LOOKAT either. I have Quickref available, and 
it is, IMO, far better than either LOOKAT or Doc Buddy.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Steve Horein]

Add to the list the new face of Redbooks
http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/

Thankfully, it's just the "face" (for now?)

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Charles Mills  wrote:

> ...

Why does IBM keep taking things that aren't broken (LookAt, Book Manager)
> and making them trendy, rather than keeping them in a form that is useful
> to
> their customers?
>
> Charles
>

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Charles Mills]

For the link I posted, for a search on , the first 8 hits are relevant 
hits for "our" binder: an options reference, a control statement reference, an 
article on migrating from the link editor to the binder, a discussion of the 
binder API, binder inputs, ... From any one of the referenced pages it is easy 
to go up a level and from there to anything you want to know about the binder.

And as I said earlier, you can "expand" each of the links right there on the 
search page, so it is easy to tell what is relevant without getting lost down 
an Internet rabbit hole. You can also do a revised search from the results 
page: no need to go back and then start a new search.

Only negative I have found on the expansions is a little hard to describe. In 
the Expand window, any links are not live, so you can't follow links from 
there; you have to actually click on the main link and actually navigate to the 
page. For the control blocks links it adds one more step, because that first 
page is often just three (dead) links: programming interface, heading, and 
mapping. It would be nice to be able to go from there straight to the mapping.

But that's a nit. I am totally sold.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2016 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone?

On Sun, 4 Dec 2016 10:31:13 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>And as a side benefit, it does in fact work very nicely from an Android 
>device (and presumably also from an iOS device). (But unlike Doc Buddy, 
>not
>off-line.)
>
>And also, as I said in another thread, it works for "everything," not 
>just messages.
> 
I wonder how it compares to Google " site:ibm.com", which I've 
been relying on?  Thanks for the suggestion.  An unfortunate "search terms" for 
site:ibm.com is "program management" which gives a basket of deplorable 
MBA-stuff but hardly any binder hits on the first page.

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 4 Dec 2016 10:31:13 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>And as a side benefit, it does in fact work very nicely from an Android
>device (and presumably also from an iOS device). (But unlike Doc Buddy, not
>off-line.)
>
>And also, as I said in another thread, it works for "everything," not just
>messages.
> 
I wonder how it compares to Google " site:ibm.com",
which I've been relying on?  Thanks for the suggestion.  An unfortunate
"search terms" for site:ibm.com is "program management" which gives
a basket of deplorable MBA-stuff but hardly any binder hits on the
first page.

Years ago, I wrote a script to drive LOOKAT into Lynx which I had
ported to MVS.  Nothing needed on the desktop except tn3270.

And there's Chicago Soft's Kwik-E-Ref (whatever) for $.

And John McKown lately pondered interfacing curl to ISPF Edit.
I just tried it.  It works, sorta, on simple things such as cbttape.org.
I'm not much moved to try it on KC.

http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/

Where did we fall off the path!?  I wonder whether Susan Shumway
has any thoughts on scripted access to KC search?

-- gil

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Compiler incest

[David L. Craig]

On 16Dec04:1431-0500, Gabe Goldberg wrote:

> David Cole  noted:
> 
> In contrast, a compiler coded in its own language tends to be much
> > better, user friendly in features, than a compiler coded in any other
> language.
> 
> Interesting observation.

It's certainly true of the Micro Focus COBOL compiler.
Yes, a COBOL compiler that compiles itself (using Micro
Focus language extensions that make it almost like C).
It also runs like a bat out of a very hot place.
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Gabe Goldberg]

Good luck embarrassing IBM anywhere, including (or especially) at 
shareholders meeting. During the 1980 OCO wars I was involved in 
industry efforts (it wasn't just SHARE/GUIDE, ADAPSO pushed too on 
behalf of software vendor members) fighting. I went to shareholders 
meeting and suggested to IBM Chairman (Akers then, I think) that OCO be 
reevaluated. He'd obviously been briefed in the issue because he was 
ready with all sorts of promises, e.g., that source would removed only 
when it was no longer necessary and abundant exits tailored to user 
requirements would help make source obsolete. At least on the VM side, 
at least for decades, that was utter rubbish.


Funny side note -- though OCO/source was a sore point with IBM for 
several years, I couldn't have wanted a better warm up act at the 
meeting before being called on; I was second. The first speaker 
harangued Akers about needing to unionize IBM. If there was anything 
LESS palatable for IBM than continuing to provide source code, it was 
unionization. So he was probably happy to hear from me.


Clark Morris wrote:

> On 2 Dec 2016 14:30:01 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
> dbc...@colesoft.com (David Cole) wrote:
>> Yep.
>> But Google does...
> If I were willing to spend the dollars to go to an IBM shareholders
> meeting, I would like to embarrass them abut this and the high
> reliability of the service web-site.


--
Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc.   g...@gabegold.com
3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042   (703) 204-0433
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Compiler incest

[Gabe Goldberg]

Related, I think the VM community's wonderful Melinda Varian observed 
that the best software is developed by people (often individuals) who 
actually want to use it. On the VM side, that includes Mike Cowlishaw's 
REXX and John Hartmann's CMS Pipelines. I'm sure z/OS has many 
equivalent stellar tools/products/offerings.


And maybe related to the incestuous compiler compiling itself, from the 
1980's OCO wars, the SHARE button, "We want to be able to fix it in the 
language in which it broke".


David Cole  noted:

In contrast, a compiler coded in its own language tends to be much
> better, user friendly in features, than a compiler coded in any other 
language.


Interesting observation.

--

Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc.   g...@gabegold.com
3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042   (703) 204-0433
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Charles Mills]

And as a side benefit, it does in fact work very nicely from an Android
device (and presumably also from an iOS device). (But unlike Doc Buddy, not
off-line.)

And also, as I said in another thread, it works for "everything," not just
messages.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of David Cole
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2016 2:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone?

I like it.
I'm changing my LOOKAT bookmark to point to the SEARCH page.
Thanks Charles.

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[David Cole]

I like it.
I'm changing my LOOKAT bookmark to point to the SEARCH page.
Thanks Charles.

Dave





At 12/3/2016 03:42 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:


On Sat, 3 Dec 2016 11:06:08 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

I just tried something this morning. If you go to Knowledge Center 
search https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/search/ and type 
in a message number the first hit seems to be the entry in Messages 
and Codes. Hard to see how that is any less satisfactory than 
LookAt. Better in that it gives you additional references also 
(some of them irrelevant, but who cares).


Ah!  So it's just that the documentation is insufficiently 
documented. [ :- -dbc]

-- gil


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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously!

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2016 03:00:15 -0500, David Cole wrote:
>...
>But if the worlds of Apples, PCs, iPhones, and Androids
>has show us anything at all,
>it has shown us that skins matter,
>and that UIs matter.
>
>IBM has a decades long history of releasing unpolished products
>and then polishing them up over the next several releases.
>"Making it pretty" was always an afterthought.
>
But when the coarseness is in a programming interface, the
excuse is too often made, "Polishing it would introduce an
incompatibility with existing art."  The analogy should
be pulling off adhesive tape: the quicker you do it, the better.

>I think that's a mistake that used to be tolerable
>in the closed world of expert customers of decades gone by.
>But even experts want nice things too.
> 
About a half century ago, a programmer could sit down with
a stack of manuals and in a few days learn all that was necessary
about OS/360.  Nowadays, it's essential that things be made
uniform to limit that learning burden.

>I think that "making it pretty" should be
>just as important an objective as "making it work".
>Didn't OS/2 losing the desktop wars of the '90s prove that?
>Didn't Steve Jobs prove that?
> 
And z/OS stands to lose the enterprise war by making a
horrible first impression on talented individuals the
enterprise needs.

A couple weeks ago, Walt Farrell and Peter Relson jumped on
me with a harsh (snarky?) form of "RTFM".  In fact, I had read
it; I merely didn't like what I read.  It said that if the programmer
assigns SYSPRINT or SYSTERM to a UNIX file, the programmer
must specify FILEDATA=TEXT.  Hmmm... What if ...?  I tried it
and learned that if I tried FILEDATA=RECORD (a very new form)
or FILEDATA=BINARY (the default) the operand is ignored and
TEXT is presumed.  No warning message; RC=0.

I think I know the history.  Binder supported the equivalent of
FILEDATA=TEXT before the FILEDATA key existed in JCL or
in allocation.  It's probably the most useful option; in that
sense a wise choice.  When allocation introduced FILEDATA,
BINARY was made the default.  Not outstandingly the best
choice, but I'll be neutral on it.  But to respect the BINARY
default would have introduced a behavioral change; Binder
chose to override.

And another sentence appears in tne Reference; one more thing
for the programmer to memorize.  On the whole, bad!

Walt and Peter both told me:

o If I read all the Binder documentation, I know what I must do.

o IBM is under no obligation to treat a programmer's disobedience
  rationally, nor to to document the consequence of disobedience.

They didn't mention that if I want the behavior of BINARY or
RECORD, I'm SOL.

I'm reminded of the first pages of Hitchhiker.

A couple years ago, I noticed that if I supply Binder SYSLIN
with FILEDATA=TEXT ("RECORD" may not have been an available
option at the time), that was ignored and BINARY (admittedly
the default) is presumed.  This can be a PITA.  It means that I
must pad every record to 80 bytes; newlines have no particular
meaning.

I submitted an RCF (perhaps an SR; I don't recall).  I don't know
if anything changed; I had promptly accommodated.  But I'll
check, and if it still behaves as not documented, I'll submit an SR.
I'd bet on WAD and a DOC APAR.  And the interface becomes more
complex, less polished.  This practice will lead z/OS along the
path of OS/2.

-- gil

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2016 11:06:08 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>I just tried something this morning. If you go to Knowledge Center search
>https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/search/ and type in a message
>number the first hit seems to be the entry in Messages and Codes. Hard to
>see how that is any less satisfactory than LookAt. Better in that it gives
>you additional references also (some of them irrelevant, but who cares).
> 
Ah!  So it's just that the documentation is insufficiently documented.

-- gil

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Charles Mills]

I just tried something this morning. If you go to Knowledge Center search
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/search/ and type in a message
number the first hit seems to be the entry in Messages and Codes. Hard to
see how that is any less satisfactory than LookAt. Better in that it gives
you additional references also (some of them irrelevant, but who cares).

Charles

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[David Cole]

[but] Seeing the grandchildren has higher priority on my money.


Absolutely!






At 12/2/2016 09:43 PM, Clark Morris wrote:

On 2 Dec 2016 14:30:01 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
dbc...@colesoft.com (David Cole) wrote:

Yep.
But Google does...
If I were willing to spend the dollars to go to an IBM shareholders 
meeting, I would like to embarrass them abut this and the high 
reliability of the service web-site.  Seeing the grandchildren has 
higher priority on my money.

Clark Morris





At 12/2/2016 05:24 PM, Nims,Alva John (Al) wrote:

I guess it does not understand HLA yet.
Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer 3
UFIT
University of Florida
(352) 273-1298





-Original Message-

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Cole
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 5:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?
Thanks for the tip.


Is the ASMA033I message correct? Could it be ASM033I (without the second A)

Yes, ASMA033I is correct. Google it.
ASMAnnnc messages belong to the High Level Assembler.
ASMnc message belong to the "Auxiliary Storage Manager".
Dave





At 12/2/2016 05:01 PM, Nims,Alva John (Al) wrote:
"#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message 
definitions, the next thing you need to know is to which 
component a particular message belongs. Quick... does anybody 
know what IEF540I belongs to? 'Cause apparently I don't. I've 
downloaded a bunch, and while other messages are now findable, 
the IEF messages aren't. (At least not yet.)"

I am doing this with my Android Phone:
In the area where you typed in the "IEF540I" and pressed "GO" you 
will have under the search box "Local | More"  Press the "More" 
side and it will give you the list of message sets that it thinks it is in.
I did the IEF540I after I had already downloaded the z/OS MVS 
1.13 set and it did not find it, but it presented me with the 
z/OS MVS 2.1 & 2.2 options, so I downloaded the 2.2 version and 
it gave me the message info.

Is the ASMA033I message correct? Could it be ASM033I (without the second A)
Al Nims Systems
Admin/Programmer 3
UFIT University of Florida
(352) 273-1298





-Original Message-

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU [On Behalf Of David Cole]
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?


There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.

Tried it. Don't much like it at all!




Ok, I've just now downloaded and installed Doc Buddy (Android 
version). And the best I can say about it is, whoever designed 
the UI really didn't put much effort into it. I mean seriously, 
doesn't IBM put these things out for real world testing first? 
Then do they even listen to the feedback???
#1) So I installed the app, and of course the very first thing I 
did was type in some message ids. Nothing too esoteric. just 
basic ancient stuff like, I don't know, do you think it'd be 
able to find IEF450I??? Nope... ASMA033I? Nope... Anything? Nope 
nope nopity nope!
#2) It turns out you then have to download... I don't know what 
IBM calls them... I'll just call them "message sets". These are 
organized by component. But there's no mention of this, no 
startup tips, tricks or just general heads-up is put in front of 
you..  Nothing. You install the app, and you're on your own. 
[Pro-tip: Go to the "Component" page.]
#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message 
definitions, the next thing you need to know is to which 
component a particular message belongs. Quick... does anybody 
know what IEF540I belongs to? 'Cause apparently I don't. I've 
downloaded a bunch, and while other messages are now findable, 
the IEF messages aren't. (At least not yet.)
#4) Maybe that message set hasn't downloaded yet. It's hard to 
tell because there is no status display. The individual messages 
sets are hidden in dropdowns that have the very annoying habit 
of going back into hiding on you rather quickly...
#5) And that's another thing. The components list keeps jumping 
around on you because dropdowns that you've opened up 
spontaneously close causing the page to jump up, jump down, jump 
whatever. Come on guys! Can't you stabilize a display long 
enough for somebody to touch a button
#6) Oh and the msgid entry field... So you've got your keyboard 
open and you're typing away, and you decide to clear the entire 
field. But when you do so, Boom! the keyboard disappears on you. Why
#7) Googling a msgid turns out to be just plain easier.  I have 
not tried very many IBM apps, but so far every one I've tried 
feels like it's been written by amateurs! My kid grandson can do 
better than this!





Ok, I've got the IEFxxx messages now. They were where they 
belonged, it just took a long time for the z/OS MVS messages set 
to download.  

Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously!

[David Cole]

I will admit...
it is easier to be snarky against something anonymous
such as faceless development teams...
I tend to forget that there are real people
working hard to develop something
other people hopefully will like.

I got an email from one of the UI developers/testers.
Someone I may know.
Not sure, he gave only his first name.
But it did bring home to me
that my criticisms could have been couched in more sympathetic terms.
I owe the team an apology.

Snark is something that comes too easily to me...



I want to like Doc Buddy...
I know that it does achieve its fundamental goal,
and that a lot of good work must have gone into it to make that happen.

But if the worlds of Apples, PCs, iPhones, and Androids
has show us anything at all,
it has shown us that skins matter,
and that UIs matter.



I want to like Doc Buddy...
But it has usability issues
that need to be work before I can do so.

IBM has a decades long history of releasing unpolished products
and then polishing them up over the next several releases.
"Making it pretty" was always an afterthought.

I think that's a mistake that used to be tolerable
in the closed world of expert customers of decades gone by.
But even experts want nice things too.

I think that "making it pretty" should be
just as important an objective as "making it work".
Didn't OS/2 losing the desktop wars of the '90s prove that?
Didn't Steve Jobs prove that?

I do think that I hilighted some significant shortcomings in Doc Buddy.
I do hope that someone will take them into consideration
before the next iteration.

I do regret the snark.
Dave

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Compiler incest

[Jack J. Woehr]

David Cole wrote:
In contrast, a compiler coded in its own language tends to be much better, user friendly in features, than a compiler 
coded in any other language.


Interesting observation.


In a word: Forth


--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Compiler incest

[David Cole]

In contrast, a compiler coded in its own language tends to be much 
better, user friendly in features, than a compiler coded in any other language.


Interesting observation.






At 12/2/2016 09:11 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:


On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 17:41:25 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:
>
>Why does IBM keep taking things that aren't broken (LookAt, Book Manager)
>and making them trendy, rather than keeping them in a form that is useful to
>their customers?
>
One can often tell when a product is produced and supported by people who
have no interest in using it.

And the worst such people are web developers.

In contrast, a compiler coded in its own language tends to be much better,
user friendly in features, than a compiler coded in any other language.

-- gil

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Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:dbc...@colesoft.com

Home page:   www.colesoft.com
LinkedIn:www.xdc.com
Facebook:www.facebook.com/colesoftware
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/colesoftware  


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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Clark Morris]

[Default] On 2 Dec 2016 14:30:01 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
dbc...@colesoft.com (David Cole) wrote:

>Yep.
>
>But Google does...
>
If I were willing to spend the dollars to go to an IBM shareholders
meeting, I would like to embarrass them abut this and the high
reliability of the service web-site.  Seeing the grandchildren has
higher priority on my money.

Clark Morris
>
>
>
>
>At 12/2/2016 05:24 PM, Nims,Alva John (Al) wrote:
>>I guess it does not understand HLA yet.
>>Al Nims
>>Systems Admin/Programmer 3
>>UFIT
>>University of Florida
>>(352) 273-1298
>>-Original Message-
>>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>>[mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Cole
>>Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 5:16 PM
>>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?
>>Thanks for the tip.
>>
>> >Is the ASMA033I message correct?  Could it be ASM033I (without the
>> >second A)
>>Yes, ASMA033I correct. Google it.
>>ASMAnnnc messages belong to the High Level Assembler.
>>ASMnc message belong to the "Auxiliary Storage Manager".
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 12/2/2016 05:01 PM, Nims,Alva John (Al) wrote:
>> >"#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message
>> >definitions, the next thing you need to know is to which component a
>> >particular message belongs. Quick... does anybody know what IEF540I
>> >belongs to? 'Cause  apparently I don't. I've downloaded a bunch, and
>> >while other messages are now findable, the IEF messages aren't. (At
>> >least not yet.)"
>> >I am doing this with my Android Phone:
>> >In the area where you typed in the "IEF540I" and pressed "GO" you
>> >will have under the search box "Local More"  Press the "More"
>> >side and it will give you the list of message sets that it thinks it is
>> >in.  I did the IEF540I after I had already downloaded the z/OS MVS 1.13
>> >set and it did not find it, but it presented me with the z/OS MVS 2.1 &
>> >2.2 options, so I downloaded the 2.2 version and it gave me the message
>> >info.
>> >Is the ASMA033I message correct?  Could it be ASM033I (without the
>> >second A) Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 UFIT University of Florida
>> >(352) 273-1298
>> >-Original Message-
>> >>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
>> >>[mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Cole
>> >>Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 4:43 PM
>> >>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> >>Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?
>> >> >There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.
>> >>
>> >>Tried it. Don't much like it at all!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Ok, I've just now downloaded and installed Doc Buddy (Android
>> >>version). And the best I can say about it is, whoever designed the UI
>> >>really didn't put much effort into it. I mean seriously, doesn't IBM
>> >>put these things out for real world testing first? Then do they even
>> >>listen to the feedback???
>> >>#1) So I installed the app, and of course the very first thing I did
>> >>was type in some message ids. Nothing too esoteric. just basic ancient
>> >>stuff like, I don't know, do you think it'd be able to find IEF450I???
>> >>Nope... ASMA033I? Nope... Anything? Nope nope nopity nope!
>> >>#2) It turns out you then have to download... I don't know what IBM
>> >>calls them... I'll just call them "message sets". These are organized
>> >>by component. But there's no mention of this, no startup tips, tricks
>> >>or just general heads-up is put in front of you..
>> >>Nothing. You install the app, and you're on your own. [Pro-tip: Go to
>> >>the "Component" page.]
>> >>#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message
>> >>definitions, the next thing you need to know is to which component a
>> >>particular message belongs. Quick... does anybody know what IEF540I
>> >>belongs to? 'Cause  apparently I don't. I've downloaded a bunch, and
>> >>while other messages are now findable, the IEF messages aren't. (At
>> >>least not yet.)
>> >>#4) Maybe that message set hasn't downloaded yet. It's hard to tell
>> >>because there is no status display. The individual mes

Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 17:41:25 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:
>
>Why does IBM keep taking things that aren't broken (LookAt, Book Manager)
>and making them trendy, rather than keeping them in a form that is useful to
>their customers?
>
One can often tell when a product is produced and supported by people who
have no interest in using it.

And the worst such people are web developers.

In contrast, a compiler coded in its own language tends to be much better,
user friendly in features, than a compiler coded in any other language.

-- gil

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Charles Mills]

And FWIW, LookAt works perfectly well on my Android phone ...

What the heck was broken and had to be fixed?

An opportunity here for Chicago-Soft MVS/Quick-Ref?

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 5:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone?

I've got an Android phone, but if I want to look up a message, it is most
likely because I am sitting in front of my 3270 emulator. I seldom want to
look up a z/OS message when I am walking down the street or riding in a car,
times when a phone would be more handy than a full-sized browser. I have
only 24-inch monitors, but they're still a heck of a lot more usable than my
5" Android screen.

It seems to me that the name "Doc Buddy" tells you all you need to know: IBM
was obviously going for cute and trendy, not actually useful.

Why does IBM keep taking things that aren't broken (LookAt, Book Manager)
and making them trendy, rather than keeping them in a form that is useful to
their customers?

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 11:29 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone?

> >have they replaced it with anything?
> 
> There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.
> 

  The LOOKAT web site says:

LookAt is no longer supported. This site is offered for use "as is" until
z/OS V1R13 goes out of service later this year.

New: IBM Doc Buddy is a Smartphone app that is available for iPhone in
iTunes and for Android in Google Play

With IBM Doc Buddy, you download only the message information that you need.
IBM Doc Buddy makes it easy to lookup message information wherever you are
without the need for an Internet connection.


1. I don't have an iPhone or Android.
 
2. If I need to look up a message, it is because I am 
   seeing that message via an Internet connection.  I never 
   need to look up message information when I don't have 
   an Internet connection. And since then I am already
   sitting in front of a workstation with a real keyboard
   and mouse and dual 27 inch monitors, that is what I want
   to use to look up message information, not a Smartphone
   with a small screen and a small simulated keyboard. 

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Charles Mills]

I've got an Android phone, but if I want to look up a message, it is most
likely because I am sitting in front of my 3270 emulator. I seldom want to
look up a z/OS message when I am walking down the street or riding in a car,
times when a phone would be more handy than a full-sized browser. I have
only 24-inch monitors, but they're still a heck of a lot more usable than my
5" Android screen.

It seems to me that the name "Doc Buddy" tells you all you need to know: IBM
was obviously going for cute and trendy, not actually useful.

Why does IBM keep taking things that aren't broken (LookAt, Book Manager)
and making them trendy, rather than keeping them in a form that is useful to
their customers?

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 11:29 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone?

> >have they replaced it with anything?
> 
> There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.
> 

  The LOOKAT web site says:

LookAt is no longer supported. This site is offered for use "as is" until
z/OS V1R13 goes out of service later this year.

New: IBM Doc Buddy is a Smartphone app that is available for iPhone in
iTunes and for Android in Google Play

With IBM Doc Buddy, you download only the message information that you need.
IBM Doc Buddy makes it easy to lookup message information wherever you are
without the need for an Internet connection.


1. I don't have an iPhone or Android.
 
2. If I need to look up a message, it is because I am 
   seeing that message via an Internet connection.  I never 
   need to look up message information when I don't have 
   an Internet connection. And since then I am already
   sitting in front of a workstation with a real keyboard
   and mouse and dual 27 inch monitors, that is what I want
   to use to look up message information, not a Smartphone
   with a small screen and a small simulated keyboard. 

Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test  IBM Corp. 
Poughkeepsie NY

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Tony Harminc]

On 2 December 2016 at 14:29, Jim Mulder  wrote:

> 1. I don't have an iPhone or Android.
>

That takes courage these days...


> 2. If I need to look up a message, it is because I am
>seeing that message via an Internet connection.  I never
>need to look up message information when I don't have
>an Internet connection. And since then I am already
>sitting in front of a workstation with a real keyboard
>and mouse and dual 27 inch monitors, that is what I want
>to use to look up message information, not a Smartphone
>with a small screen and a small simulated keyboard.
>

I imagine the target -- certainly we've heard this on this list in the past
-- is the person called into the datacentre at 3am to look at some message
(might it be an IEAnnnW...?) on the console. Mobile network coverage is
dodgy in the basement of the large building where the hardware lives, there
is by corporate policy no access from there to the Internet via wired or
WiFi connection, and the system is down.

Yeah, I know -- lots of reasons why this is increasingly implausible, and
in any case shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Tony H.

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[David Cole]

Yep.

But Google does...






At 12/2/2016 05:24 PM, Nims,Alva John (Al) wrote:

I guess it does not understand HLA yet.
Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer 3
UFIT
University of Florida
(352) 273-1298
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
[mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Cole

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 5:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?
Thanks for the tip.

>Is the ASMA033I message correct?  Could it be ASM033I (without the
>second A)
Yes, ASMA033I correct. Google it.
ASMAnnnc messages belong to the High Level Assembler.
ASMnc message belong to the "Auxiliary Storage Manager".
Dave





At 12/2/2016 05:01 PM, Nims,Alva John (Al) wrote:
>"#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message
>definitions, the next thing you need to know is to which component a
>particular message belongs. Quick... does anybody know what IEF540I
>belongs to? 'Cause  apparently I don't. I've downloaded a bunch, and
>while other messages are now findable, the IEF messages aren't. (At
>least not yet.)"
>I am doing this with my Android Phone:
>In the area where you typed in the "IEF540I" and pressed "GO" you
>will have under the search box "Local More"  Press the "More"
>side and it will give you the list of message sets that it thinks it is
>in.  I did the IEF540I after I had already downloaded the z/OS MVS 1.13
>set and it did not find it, but it presented me with the z/OS MVS 2.1 &
>2.2 options, so I downloaded the 2.2 version and it gave me the message
>info.
>Is the ASMA033I message correct?  Could it be ASM033I (without the
>second A) Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 UFIT University of Florida
>(352) 273-1298
>-Original Message-
>>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
>>[mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Cole
>>Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 4:43 PM
>>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?
>> >There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.
>>
>>Tried it. Don't much like it at all!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Ok, I've just now downloaded and installed Doc Buddy (Android
>>version). And the best I can say about it is, whoever designed the UI
>>really didn't put much effort into it. I mean seriously, doesn't IBM
>>put these things out for real world testing first? Then do they even
>>listen to the feedback???
>>#1) So I installed the app, and of course the very first thing I did
>>was type in some message ids. Nothing too esoteric. just basic ancient
>>stuff like, I don't know, do you think it'd be able to find IEF450I???
>>Nope... ASMA033I? Nope... Anything? Nope nope nopity nope!
>>#2) It turns out you then have to download... I don't know what IBM
>>calls them... I'll just call them "message sets". These are organized
>>by component. But there's no mention of this, no startup tips, tricks
>>or just general heads-up is put in front of you..
>>Nothing. You install the app, and you're on your own. [Pro-tip: Go to
>>the "Component" page.]
>>#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message
>>definitions, the next thing you need to know is to which component a
>>particular message belongs. Quick... does anybody know what IEF540I
>>belongs to? 'Cause  apparently I don't. I've downloaded a bunch, and
>>while other messages are now findable, the IEF messages aren't. (At
>>least not yet.)
>>#4) Maybe that message set hasn't downloaded yet. It's hard to tell
>>because there is no status display. The individual messages sets are
>>hidden in dropdowns that have the very annoying habit of going back
>>into hiding on you rather quickly...
>>#5) And that's another thing. The components list keeps jumping around
>>on you because dropdowns that you've opened up spontaneously close
>>causing the page to jump up, jump down, jump whatever. Come on guys!
>>Can't you stabilize a display long enough for somebody to touch a
>>button
>>
>>#6) Oh and the msgid entry field... So you've got your keyboard open
>>and you're typing away, and you decide to clear the entire field. But
>>when you do so, Boom! the keyboard disappears on you. Why
>>#7) Googling a msgid turns out to be just plain easier.
>>I have not tried very many IBM apps, but so far every one I've tried
>>feels like it's been written by amateurs!
>>My kid grandson can do better than this!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Ok, I've got the IEFxxx messages now. They were where they belonged,
>>it 

Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Nims,Alva John (Al)]

I guess it does not understand HLA yet.

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer 3
UFIT
University of Florida
(352) 273-1298

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Cole
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 5:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

Thanks for the tip.


>Is the ASMA033I message correct?  Could it be ASM033I (without the 
>second A)

Yes, ASMA033I correct. Google it.

ASMAnnnc messages belong to the High Level Assembler.

ASMnc message belong to the "Auxiliary Storage Manager".

Dave






At 12/2/2016 05:01 PM, Nims,Alva John (Al) wrote:
>"#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message 
>definitions, the next thing you need to know is to which component a 
>particular message belongs. Quick... does anybody know what IEF540I 
>belongs to? 'Cause  apparently I don't. I've downloaded a bunch, and 
>while other messages are now findable, the IEF messages aren't. (At 
>least not yet.)"
>I am doing this with my Android Phone:
>In the area where you typed in the "IEF540I" and pressed "GO" you 
>will have under the search box "Local More"  Press the "More" 
>side and it will give you the list of message sets that it thinks it is 
>in.  I did the IEF540I after I had already downloaded the z/OS MVS 1.13 
>set and it did not find it, but it presented me with the z/OS MVS 2.1 & 
>2.2 options, so I downloaded the 2.2 version and it gave me the message 
>info.
>Is the ASMA033I message correct?  Could it be ASM033I (without the 
>second A) Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 UFIT University of Florida
>(352) 273-1298
>-Original Message-
>>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
>>[mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Cole
>>Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 4:43 PM
>>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?
>> >There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.
>>
>>Tried it. Don't much like it at all!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Ok, I've just now downloaded and installed Doc Buddy (Android 
>>version). And the best I can say about it is, whoever designed the UI 
>>really didn't put much effort into it. I mean seriously, doesn't IBM 
>>put these things out for real world testing first? Then do they even 
>>listen to the feedback???
>>#1) So I installed the app, and of course the very first thing I did 
>>was type in some message ids. Nothing too esoteric. just basic ancient 
>>stuff like, I don't know, do you think it'd be able to find IEF450I??? 
>>Nope... ASMA033I? Nope... Anything? Nope nope nopity nope!
>>#2) It turns out you then have to download... I don't know what IBM 
>>calls them... I'll just call them "message sets". These are organized 
>>by component. But there's no mention of this, no startup tips, tricks 
>>or just general heads-up is put in front of you..
>>Nothing. You install the app, and you're on your own. [Pro-tip: Go to 
>>the "Component" page.]
>>#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message 
>>definitions, the next thing you need to know is to which component a 
>>particular message belongs. Quick... does anybody know what IEF540I 
>>belongs to? 'Cause  apparently I don't. I've downloaded a bunch, and 
>>while other messages are now findable, the IEF messages aren't. (At 
>>least not yet.)
>>#4) Maybe that message set hasn't downloaded yet. It's hard to tell 
>>because there is no status display. The individual messages sets are 
>>hidden in dropdowns that have the very annoying habit of going back 
>>into hiding on you rather quickly...
>>#5) And that's another thing. The components list keeps jumping around 
>>on you because dropdowns that you've opened up spontaneously close 
>>causing the page to jump up, jump down, jump whatever. Come on guys! 
>>Can't you stabilize a display long enough for somebody to touch a 
>>button
>>
>>#6) Oh and the msgid entry field... So you've got your keyboard open 
>>and you're typing away, and you decide to clear the entire field. But 
>>when you do so, Boom! the keyboard disappears on you. Why
>>#7) Googling a msgid turns out to be just plain easier.
>>I have not tried very many IBM apps, but so far every one I've tried 
>>feels like it's been written by amateurs!
>>My kid grandson can do better than this!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Ok, I've got the IEFxxx messages now. They were where they belonged, 
>>it just took a long time for the z/OS MVS me

Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[David Cole]

Thanks for the tip.



Is the ASMA033I message correct?  Could it be ASM033I (without the second A)


Yes, ASMA033I correct. Google it.

ASMAnnnc messages belong to the High Level Assembler.

ASMnc message belong to the "Auxiliary Storage Manager".

Dave






At 12/2/2016 05:01 PM, Nims,Alva John (Al) wrote:
"#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message 
definitions, the next thing you need to know is to which component a 
particular message belongs. Quick... does anybody know what IEF540I 
belongs to? 'Cause  apparently I don't. I've downloaded a bunch, and 
while other messages are now findable, the IEF messages aren't. (At 
least not yet.)"

I am doing this with my Android Phone:
In the area where you typed in the "IEF540I" and pressed "GO" you 
will have under the search box "Local More"  Press the "More" 
side and it will give you the list of message sets that it thinks it 
is in.  I did the IEF540I after I had already downloaded the z/OS 
MVS 1.13 set and it did not find it, but it presented me with the 
z/OS MVS 2.1 & 2.2 options, so I downloaded the 2.2 version and it 
gave me the message info.

Is the ASMA033I message correct?  Could it be ASM033I (without the second A)
Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer 3
UFIT
University of Florida
(352) 273-1298
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
[mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Cole

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 4:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?
>There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.

Tried it. Don't much like it at all!





Ok, I've just now downloaded and installed Doc Buddy (Android 
version). And the best I can say about it is, whoever designed the 
UI really didn't put much effort into it. I mean seriously, doesn't 
IBM put these things out for real world testing first? Then do they 
even listen to the feedback???
#1) So I installed the app, and of course the very first thing I 
did was type in some message ids. Nothing too esoteric. just basic 
ancient stuff like, I don't know, do you think it'd be able to find 
IEF450I??? Nope... ASMA033I? Nope... Anything? Nope nope nopity nope!
#2) It turns out you then have to download... I don't know what IBM 
calls them... I'll just call them "message sets". These are 
organized by component. But there's no mention of this, no startup 
tips, tricks or just general heads-up is put in front of you.. 
Nothing. You install the app, and you're on your own. [Pro-tip: Go 
to the "Component" page.]
#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message 
definitions, the next thing you need to know is to which component 
a particular message belongs. Quick... does anybody know what 
IEF540I belongs to? 'Cause  apparently I don't. I've downloaded a 
bunch, and while other messages are now findable, the IEF messages 
aren't. (At least not yet.)
#4) Maybe that message set hasn't downloaded yet. It's hard to tell 
because there is no status display. The individual messages sets 
are hidden in dropdowns that have the very annoying habit of going 
back into hiding on you rather quickly...
#5) And that's another thing. The components list keeps jumping 
around on you because dropdowns that you've opened up spontaneously 
close causing the page to jump up, jump down, jump whatever. Come 
on guys! Can't you stabilize a display long enough for somebody to 
touch a button


#6) Oh and the msgid entry field... So you've got your keyboard 
open and you're typing away, and you decide to clear the entire 
field. But when you do so, Boom! the keyboard disappears on you. Why

#7) Googling a msgid turns out to be just plain easier.
I have not tried very many IBM apps, but so far every one I've 
tried feels like it's been written by amateurs!

My kid grandson can do better than this!





Ok, I've got the IEFxxx messages now. They were where they 
belonged, it just took a long time for the z/OS MVS messages set to download.

Good thing I've got a nice fat pipe.
But I still don't have the ASMAxxx messages yet. They're apparently 
not in the z/OS MVS component, and I don't see an HLASM component 
available. Really?

Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:dbc...@colesoft.com
Home page:   www.colesoft.com
LinkedIn:www.xdc.com
Facebook:www.facebook.com/colesoftware
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/colesoftware


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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Nims,Alva John (Al)]

"#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message definitions, the 
next thing you need to know is to which component a particular message belongs. 
Quick... does anybody know what IEF540I belongs to? 'Cause  apparently I don't. 
I've downloaded a bunch, and while other messages are now findable, the IEF 
messages aren't. (At least not yet.)"

I am doing this with my Android Phone:

In the area where you typed in the "IEF540I" and pressed "GO" you will have 
under the search box "Local More"  Press the "More" side and it will give 
you the list of message sets that it thinks it is in.  I did the IEF540I after 
I had already downloaded the z/OS MVS 1.13 set and it did not find it, but it 
presented me with the z/OS MVS 2.1 & 2.2 options, so I downloaded the 2.2 
version and it gave me the message info.

Is the ASMA033I message correct?  Could it be ASM033I (without the second A)

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer 3
UFIT
University of Florida
(352) 273-1298

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Cole
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 4:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

>There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.


Tried it. Don't much like it at all!






Ok, I've just now downloaded and installed Doc Buddy (Android version). And the 
best I can say about it is, whoever designed the UI really didn't put much 
effort into it. I mean seriously, doesn't IBM put these things out for real 
world testing first? Then do they even listen to the feedback???

#1) So I installed the app, and of course the very first thing I did was type 
in some message ids. Nothing too esoteric. just basic ancient stuff like, I 
don't know, do you think it'd be able to find IEF450I??? Nope... ASMA033I? 
Nope... Anything? Nope nope nopity nope!

#2) It turns out you then have to download... I don't know what IBM calls 
them... I'll just call them "message sets". These are organized by component. 
But there's no mention of this, no startup tips, tricks or just general 
heads-up is put in front of you.. Nothing. You install the app, and you're on 
your own. [Pro-tip: Go to the "Component" page.]

#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message definitions, the 
next thing you need to know is to which component a particular message belongs. 
Quick... does anybody know what IEF540I belongs to? 'Cause  apparently I don't. 
I've downloaded a bunch, and while other messages are now findable, the IEF 
messages aren't. (At least not yet.)

#4) Maybe that message set hasn't downloaded yet. It's hard to tell because 
there is no status display. The individual messages sets are hidden in 
dropdowns that have the very annoying habit of going back into hiding on you 
rather quickly...

#5) And that's another thing. The components list keeps jumping around on you 
because dropdowns that you've opened up spontaneously close causing the page to 
jump up, jump down, jump whatever. Come on guys! Can't you stabilize a display 
long enough for somebody to touch a button

#6) Oh and the msgid entry field... So you've got your keyboard open and you're 
typing away, and you decide to clear the entire field. But when you do so, 
Boom! the keyboard disappears on you. Why

#7) Googling a msgid turns out to be just plain easier.

I have not tried very many IBM apps, but so far every one I've tried feels like 
it's been written by amateurs!

My kid grandson can do better than this!






Ok, I've got the IEFxxx messages now. They were where they belonged, it just 
took a long time for the z/OS MVS messages set to download. 
Good thing I've got a nice fat pipe.

But I still don't have the ASMAxxx messages yet. They're apparently not in the 
z/OS MVS component, and I don't see an HLASM component available. Really?

Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:dbc...@colesoft.com

Home page:   www.colesoft.com
LinkedIn:www.xdc.com
Facebook:www.facebook.com/colesoftware
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/colesoftware






At 12/2/2016 02:29 PM, Jim Mulder wrote:
> > >have they replaced it with anything?
> >
> > There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.
> >
>   The LOOKAT web site says:
>
>LookAt is no longer supported. This site is offered for use "as is" 
>until z/OS V1R13 goes out of service later this year.
>New: IBM Doc Buddy is a Smartphone app that is available for iPhone in 
>iTunes and for Android in Google Play With IBM Doc Buddy, you download 
>only the message information that you need. IBM Doc Buddy makes it easy 
>to lookup message information wherever you are without the need for an 
>Internet connection.
>
>1. I don't have an iPhone or A

Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[David Cole]

There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.



Tried it. Don't much like it at all!






Ok, I've just now downloaded and installed Doc Buddy (Android 
version). And the best I can say about it is, whoever designed the UI 
really didn't put much effort into it. I mean seriously, doesn't IBM 
put these things out for real world testing first? Then do they even 
listen to the feedback???


#1) So I installed the app, and of course the very first thing I did 
was type in some message ids. Nothing too esoteric. just basic 
ancient stuff like, I don't know, do you think it'd be able to find 
IEF450I??? Nope... ASMA033I? Nope... Anything? Nope nope nopity nope!


#2) It turns out you then have to download... I don't know what IBM 
calls them... I'll just call them "message sets". These are organized 
by component. But there's no mention of this, no startup tips, tricks 
or just general heads-up is put in front of you.. Nothing. You 
install the app, and you're on your own. [Pro-tip: Go to the "Component" page.]


#3) So once you've figured you need to download the message 
definitions, the next thing you need to know is to which component a 
particular message belongs. Quick... does anybody know what IEF540I 
belongs to? 'Cause  apparently I don't. I've downloaded a bunch, and 
while other messages are now findable, the IEF messages aren't. (At 
least not yet.)


#4) Maybe that message set hasn't downloaded yet. It's hard to tell 
because there is no status display. The individual messages sets are 
hidden in dropdowns that have the very annoying habit of going back 
into hiding on you rather quickly...


#5) And that's another thing. The components list keeps jumping 
around on you because dropdowns that you've opened up spontaneously 
close causing the page to jump up, jump down, jump whatever. Come on 
guys! Can't you stabilize a display long enough for somebody to touch 
a button


#6) Oh and the msgid entry field... So you've got your keyboard open 
and you're typing away, and you decide to clear the entire field. But 
when you do so, Boom! the keyboard disappears on you. Why


#7) Googling a msgid turns out to be just plain easier.

I have not tried very many IBM apps, but so far every one I've tried 
feels like it's been written by amateurs!


My kid grandson can do better than this!






Ok, I've got the IEFxxx messages now. They were where they belonged, 
it just took a long time for the z/OS MVS messages set to download. 
Good thing I've got a nice fat pipe.


But I still don't have the ASMAxxx messages yet. They're apparently 
not in the z/OS MVS component, and I don't see an HLASM component 
available. Really?


Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:dbc...@colesoft.com

Home page:   www.colesoft.com
LinkedIn:www.xdc.com
Facebook:www.facebook.com/colesoftware
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/colesoftware






At 12/2/2016 02:29 PM, Jim Mulder wrote:

> >have they replaced it with anything?
>
> There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.
>
  The LOOKAT web site says:

LookAt is no longer supported. This site is offered for use
"as is" until z/OS V1R13 goes out of service later this year.
New: IBM Doc Buddy is a Smartphone app that is available for
iPhone in iTunes and for Android in Google Play
With IBM Doc Buddy, you download only the message information that
you need. IBM Doc Buddy makes it easy to lookup message information
wherever you are without the need for an Internet connection.

1. I don't have an iPhone or Android.

2. If I need to look up a message, it is because I am
   seeing that message via an Internet connection.  I never
   need to look up message information when I don't have
   an Internet connection. And since then I am already
   sitting in front of a workstation with a real keyboard
   and mouse and dual 27 inch monitors, that is what I want
   to use to look up message information, not a Smartphone
   with a small screen and a small simulated keyboard.
Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test  IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY


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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Jim Mulder]

> >have they replaced it with anything?
> 
> There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.
> 

  The LOOKAT web site says:

LookAt is no longer supported. This site is offered for use 
"as is" until z/OS V1R13 goes out of service later this year.

New: IBM Doc Buddy is a Smartphone app that is available for 
iPhone in iTunes and for Android in Google Play

With IBM Doc Buddy, you download only the message information that 
you need. IBM Doc Buddy makes it easy to lookup message information 
wherever you are without the need for an Internet connection.


1. I don't have an iPhone or Android.
 
2. If I need to look up a message, it is because I am 
   seeing that message via an Internet connection.  I never 
   need to look up message information when I don't have 
   an Internet connection. And since then I am already
   sitting in front of a workstation with a real keyboard
   and mouse and dual 27 inch monitors, that is what I want
   to use to look up message information, not a Smartphone
   with a small screen and a small simulated keyboard. 

Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test  IBM Corp. 
Poughkeepsie NY



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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Paul Gilmartin wrote:

>>Who is that rockstar who cried out that song? Just curious...
 
>Rockstar!?  I can make you feel old:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma!_He's_Making_Eyes_at_Me

Groan. I'm feeling OLD! Thanks for posting this link about this nearly 100 
years old song.

Much appreciated. Now, I'm off to enjoy my weekend to mow my lawn in the 
sweltering heat. ;-D

I remember those LOOKAT threads on IBM-MAIN ages ago. I'm not using that much. 
Then came those horrible library website changes with the usual complaints on 
IBM-MAIN!

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 07:43:27 -0600, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote:
>
>Now, 'LOOKAT' reminds me of that song: 'Maa, he is LOOKING at 
>meee!'
>
>Who is that rockstar who cried out that song? Just curious...
> 
Rockstar!?  I can make you feel old:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma!_He's_Making_Eyes_at_Me

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 04:51:39 -0500, David Cole wrote:

>LOOKAT is (was?) an IBM web page that could be used to look up doc
>for IBM generated messages. Just give it the message number, and it
>would give you the doc.
>
>The page was "www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/", but
>just now I tried going there and got the IBM equivalent of a 404! No
>explanation, no redirect. Just gone. [How very rude.]
>
>I know that IBM said a couple of years ago that they were not going
>to add new messages to LOOKAT anymore, but at the same time, they
>also said that LOOKAT would continue to be available for looking up
>the messages that were already there...
>
A while (depending on how old you feel) back, the developer who
claimed credit (well deserved) for LOOKAT posted here of its
stabilization and recommended alternative.  One could nearly read
between the lines, "They made me say that."

>So... is it truly gone?
>
>If so, have they replaced it with anything?
> 
IIRC, they said, "GIYF."  They did relax restrictions on spiders.

>Inquiring minds want to know...

-- gil

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Charles Mills]

Ditto.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Dave Cole
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 3:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT gone?

H. They've moved it. (The link I've been using is in a bookmark and has
been working for years.)

Anyway, thanks for the clue.

:-)
Dave

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Dave Cole wrote:

>H. They've moved it. (The link I've been using is in a bookmark and has 
>been working for years.)
>Anyway, thanks for the clue.

>:-)

Ok, it must be Friday today, something which I never got it in this month... ;-D

Now, 'LOOKAT' reminds me of that song: 'Maa, he is LOOKING at meee!'

Who is that rockstar who cried out that song? Just curious...

;-D

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Allan Staller]

Try here:

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/lookat/


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Cole
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 3:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: LOOKAT gone?

LOOKAT is (was?) an IBM web page that could be used to look up doc for IBM 
generated messages. Just give it the message number, and it would give you the 
doc.

The page was "www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/", but just now I 
tried going there and got the IBM equivalent of a 404! No explanation, no 
redirect. Just gone. [How very rude.]

I know that IBM said a couple of years ago that they were not going to add new 
messages to LOOKAT anymore, but at the same time, they also said that LOOKAT 
would continue to be available for looking up the messages that were already 
there...

So... is it truly gone?

If so, have they replaced it with anything?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:dbc...@colesoft.com

Home page:   www.colesoft.com
LinkedIn:www.xdc.com
Facebook:www.facebook.com/colesoftware
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/colesoftware  

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Tom Marchant]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 04:51:39 -0500, David Cole wrote:

>have they replaced it with anything?

There is a phone app called IBM Doc buddy. Try it, you might like it.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[David Cole]

H. They've moved it. (The link I've been using is in a bookmark 
and has been working for years.)


Anyway, thanks for the clue.

:-)
Dave






At 12/2/2016 05:59 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote:

Richards, Robert B. wrote:
>http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/lookat/lookatm.html
>You were missing "library" before bkserv
Thanks! It is the same problem as in thread 'Re: IBM doc page - down 
or dead?' earlier this week.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht
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Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:dbc...@colesoft.com

Home page:   www.colesoft.com
LinkedIn:www.xdc.com
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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Dave Cole]

H. They've moved it. (The link I've been using is in a bookmark 
and has been working for years.)


Anyway, thanks for the clue.

:-)
Dave






At 12/2/2016 05:59 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote:

Richards, Robert B. wrote:
>http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/lookat/lookatm.html
>You were missing "library" before bkserv
Thanks! It is the same problem as in thread 'Re: IBM doc page - down 
or dead?' earlier this week.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht
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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Richards, Robert B. wrote:

>http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/lookat/lookatm.html

>You were missing "library" before bkserv

Thanks! It is the same problem as in thread 'Re: IBM doc page - down or dead?' 
earlier this week.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Richards, Robert B.]

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/lookat/lookatm.html

You were missing "library" before bkserv

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Cole
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 4:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: LOOKAT gone?

LOOKAT is (was?) an IBM web page that could be used to look up doc for IBM 
generated messages. Just give it the message number, and it would give you the 
doc.

The page was "www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/", but just now I 
tried going there and got the IBM equivalent of a 404! No explanation, no 
redirect. Just gone. [How very rude.]

I know that IBM said a couple of years ago that they were not going to add new 
messages to LOOKAT anymore, but at the same time, they also said that LOOKAT 
would continue to be available for looking up the messages that were already 
there...

So... is it truly gone?

If so, have they replaced it with anything?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Dave Cole
ColeSoft Marketing
414 Third Street, NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
EADDRESS:dbc...@colesoft.com

Home page:   www.colesoft.com
LinkedIn:www.xdc.com
Facebook:www.facebook.com/colesoftware
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/colesoftware  

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Re: Lookat

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
0727804906280897.wa.elardus.engelbrechtsita.co...@listserv.ua.edu,
on 12/11/2013
   at 11:30 PM, Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za
said:

Good idea, now I have pondering on it, I'll have a nice discussion
with my DRP team so we can replace DVDs with external hard drives.

Why not USB data keys?
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Lookat

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)wrote:

Good idea, now I have pondering on it, I'll have a nice discussion with my 
DRP team so we can replace DVDs with external hard drives.

Why not USB data keys?

Thanks. It is also a good idea. We use easy-to-use technology in Primary and 
DRP sites whatever is available and compatible. 

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: LOOKAT 404

[David Crayford]

On 18/12/2013 2:41 PM, Avram Friedman wrote:

For years IBM has recommended that when bookmarking there sites,
Modify the HTTP string from WWW??.  to WWW.
The ?? part as in WWW-03 or WWW2 is used interally to route to various 
servers.
WWW.IBM* is an alais to the actual site that gets updated as pages move 
between servers.


If that's true then what a load of old cobblers! A company like IBM 
should be able to put infrastructure in place to keep a link intact for 
ever. It's not rocket science to deploy web servers specifically for 
redirection. It's been demonstrated to be cheap to do with a handful of 
nginx servers with simple config files.


Enough of this nonsense.



The issue here is IBM did not follow its own book mark advice which is designed 
to avoid problems like this.
A failure of highly trained TECH writters and proofers.



Avram Friedman

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:59:56 +0800, Timothy Sipples sipp...@sg.ibm.com wrote:


If you need to get to the correct page in the interim, here is the link:

http://www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

Thanks, Paul.


Timothy Sipples
GMU VCT Architect Executive (Based in Singapore)
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: LOOKAT 404

[Paul Gilmartin]

On 2013-12-17, at 23:41, Avram Friedman wrote:

 For years IBM has recommended that when bookmarking there sites,
 Modify the HTTP string from WWW??.  to WWW.
 The ?? part as in WWW-03 or WWW2 is used interally to route to various 
 servers.
 WWW.IBM* is an alais to the actual site that gets updated as pages move 
 between servers.
 
 
 The issue here is IBM did not follow its own book mark advice which is 
 designed to avoid problems like this.
 A failure of highly trained TECH writters and proofers.
  
Actually, the link on the parent page appears as:

tda href=/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/lookat Messages and codes 
via LookAt/a/td

(Who knows what mailers and LISTSERVs will to to that markup?)
It's a relative URL, often a recommended practice.  And the
troublesome substring is not the -03, but the /library, as
Timothy inferred.
 Avram Friedman
 
 On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:59:56 +0800, Timothy Sipples sipp...@sg.ibm.com 
 wrote:
 
 If you need to get to the correct page in the interim, here is the link:
 
 http://www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

in the interim?  Can we expect a repair?

Thanks,
gil

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Re: LOOKAT 404

[Staller, Allan]

The U.S. Gov't can't get it right!

snip
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Crayford
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: LOOKAT 404

On 18/12/2013 10:33 AM, Tony Harminc wrote:
 On 17 December 2013 20:23, Lizette Koehler stars...@mindspring.com wrote:
 This link worked for me just now

 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
 Works for me too, but it's not the link on the main z/OS Internet 
 LIbrary page. IBM surely outdoes all other big companies in the dead 
 link department. Well, maybe HP comes a close second...

dead links = poor standards. If government can get it right an IT behemoth 
shouldn't fail so miserably 
http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/11/no-link-left-behind/.
/snip

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Re: LOOKAT 404

[David Crayford]

On 18/12/2013, at 10:01 PM, Staller, Allan allan.stal...@kbmg.com wrote:

 The U.S. Gov't can't get it right!

Shame on them!

 
 snip
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
 Behalf Of David Crayford
 Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:55 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: LOOKAT 404
 
 On 18/12/2013 10:33 AM, Tony Harminc wrote:
 On 17 December 2013 20:23, Lizette Koehler stars...@mindspring.com wrote:
 This link worked for me just now
 
 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
 Works for me too, but it's not the link on the main z/OS Internet 
 LIbrary page. IBM surely outdoes all other big companies in the dead 
 link department. Well, maybe HP comes a close second...
 
 dead links = poor standards. If government can get it right an IT behemoth 
 shouldn't fail so miserably 
 http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/11/no-link-left-behind/.
 /snip
 
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Re: LOOKAT 404

[Kevin Minerley]

IBM: LookAt - z/OS message help - 
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

is the one working for me currently.   That goes directly to the old, as-is 
internet LookAt interface.

Can't speak for other pages that reference us.

Kevin Minerley

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Re: LOOKAT 404

[Lizette Koehler]

Gil,

This link worked for me just now

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

Lizette


 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
 Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
 Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 2:58 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: LOOKAT 404
 
 On page:
 
 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html
 
 The LOOKAT link:
 
 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/lookat
 
 Gives me 404 Not Found.  There happens to be a Report this problem
 button on the error page.  I clicked on it.  Let's all do that.
 
 -- gil
 

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Re: LOOKAT 404

[Tony Harminc]

On 17 December 2013 20:23, Lizette Koehler stars...@mindspring.com wrote:
 This link worked for me just now

 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

Works for me too, but it's not the link on the main z/OS Internet
LIbrary page. IBM surely outdoes all other big companies in the dead
link department. Well, maybe HP comes a close second...

Tony H.

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Re: LOOKAT 404

[David Crayford]

On 18/12/2013 10:33 AM, Tony Harminc wrote:

On 17 December 2013 20:23, Lizette Koehler stars...@mindspring.com wrote:

This link worked for me just now

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

Works for me too, but it's not the link on the main z/OS Internet
LIbrary page. IBM surely outdoes all other big companies in the dead
link department. Well, maybe HP comes a close second...


dead links = poor standards. If government can get it right an IT 
behemoth shouldn't fail so miserably 
http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/11/no-link-left-behind/.



Tony H.

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Re: LOOKAT 404

[Timothy Sipples]

If you need to get to the correct page in the interim, here is the link:

http://www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

Thanks, Paul.


Timothy Sipples
GMU VCT Architect Executive (Based in Singapore)
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: LOOKAT 404

[Avram Friedman]

For years IBM has recommended that when bookmarking there sites,
Modify the HTTP string from WWW??.  to WWW.
The ?? part as in WWW-03 or WWW2 is used interally to route to various 
servers.
WWW.IBM* is an alais to the actual site that gets updated as pages move 
between servers.


The issue here is IBM did not follow its own book mark advice which is designed 
to avoid problems like this.
A failure of highly trained TECH writters and proofers.

Avram Friedman

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:59:56 +0800, Timothy Sipples sipp...@sg.ibm.com wrote:

If you need to get to the correct page in the interim, here is the link:

http://www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

Thanks, Paul.


Timothy Sipples
GMU VCT Architect Executive (Based in Singapore)
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Lookat

[John Blythe Reid]

I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.

Bye for now,
John


On 13 December 2013 00:52, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:

 zMan,

 Does mean the prices are better?

 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com
 from my IPAD

 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means'


  On Dec 12, 2013, at 5:51 PM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Clark lives in the Maritimes, remember...a lot further from China where
 the
  USB drives are made :-)
 
  (But he can get good, fresh fish a lot cheaper than most of us!)
 
 
  On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Gord Tomlin 
  gt.ibm.li...@actionsoftware.com wrote:
 
  On 2013-12-12 13:57, Clark Morris wrote:
 
  I can get a 32 GB flash drive for under 50 Canadian dollars if I watch
  for a sale and I have seen 64 GB drives advertised.
 
  Apparently you are missing the good sales! I bought 32 GB USB 3.0 sticks
  for about CAD $16.
 
  --
 
  Regards, Gord Tomlin
  Action Software International
  (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
  Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
 
 
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  zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it
 
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-- 
John Blythe Reid,
Técnico de Sistemas de z/OS y de Sistemas Transaccionales,
Barcelona,
España.

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Re: Lookat

[Jantje.]

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 09:47:47 +0100, John Blythe Reid johnblyther...@gmail.com 
wrote:

I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.


Great!

Thanks to whoever revived it.

Jantje.

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Re: Lookat

[Gonzalo Cengotita]

I think these are partial good news, as IBM said:
 You can continue to access older releases of messages at the website
AS-IS.

So, I guess Look At can still be used for versions until 1.13.

Gonzalo Cengotita



2013/12/13 Klan, Rob (RET-DAY) rob.k...@reedelsevier.com

 Thank You to those whom resurrected Lookat.


 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
 Behalf Of John Blythe Reid
 Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 3:48 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: Lookat

 I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.

 Bye for now,
 John


 On 13 December 2013 00:52, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:

  zMan,
 
  Does mean the prices are better?
 
  Scott ford
  www.identityforge.com
  from my IPAD
 
  'Infinite wisdom through infinite means'
 
 
   On Dec 12, 2013, at 5:51 PM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
  
   Clark lives in the Maritimes, remember...a lot further from China
   where
  the
   USB drives are made :-)
  
   (But he can get good, fresh fish a lot cheaper than most of us!)
  
  
   On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Gord Tomlin 
   gt.ibm.li...@actionsoftware.com wrote:
  
   On 2013-12-12 13:57, Clark Morris wrote:
  
   I can get a 32 GB flash drive for under 50 Canadian dollars if I
   watch for a sale and I have seen 64 GB drives advertised.
  
   Apparently you are missing the good sales! I bought 32 GB USB 3.0
   sticks for about CAD $16.
  
   --
  
   Regards, Gord Tomlin
   Action Software International
   (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
   Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
  
  
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 --
 John Blythe Reid,
 Técnico de Sistemas de z/OS y de Sistemas Transaccionales, Barcelona,
 España.

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-- 

*Gonzalo Cengotita*

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Re: Lookat

[Staller, Allan]

What URL are you using. 

I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
And got re-directed to
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.

???

snip
I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
/snip

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Re: Lookat

[Gonzalo Cengotita]

I'm using http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/ and it's
working at this moment


2013/12/13 Staller, Allan allan.stal...@kbmg.com

 What URL are you using.

 I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
 And got re-directed to
 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

 which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.

 ???

 snip
 I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
 /snip

 --
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-- 

*Gonzalo Cengotita*

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Re: Lookat

[Staller, Allan]

Same re-direct as previously quoted.

Al Staller | Z Systems Programmer | KBM Group | (Tel) 972 664-3565 | 
allan.stal...@kbmg.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gonzalo Cengotita
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 7:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

I'm using http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/ and it's 
working at this moment


2013/12/13 Staller, Allan allan.stal...@kbmg.com

 What URL are you using.

 I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
 And got re-directed to
 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

 which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.

 ???

 snip
 I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
 /snip

 --
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 email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




-- 

*Gonzalo Cengotita*

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Re: Lookat

[Steve Comstock]

On 12/13/2013 6:43 AM, Staller, Allan wrote:

What URL are you using.

I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
And got re-directed to
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.

???

snip
I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
/snip

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Interesting. I just tried the first link you gave me and it went
right there!

--


Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-355-2752
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* We are going out of business effective 30 December, 2013

* To purchase a set of our training materials at terrific prices,
  check out our Going Out Of Business Sale:

http://www.trainersfriend.com/SpecialSale

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Re: Lookat

[Steve Comstock]

On 12/13/2013 6:57 AM, Steve Comstock wrote:

On 12/13/2013 6:43 AM, Staller, Allan wrote:

What URL are you using.

I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
And got re-directed to
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.

???

snip
I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
/snip

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Interesting. I just tried the first link you gave me and it went
right there!

--


Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-355-2752
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* We are going out of business effective 30 December, 2013

* To purchase a set of our training materials at terrific prices,
   check out our Going Out Of Business Sale:

 http://www.trainersfriend.com/SpecialSale

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Well, on closer examination, I did get re-directed, but it was to

  http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

which is the classic LookAt.

-Steve

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Re: Lookat

[Staller, Allan]

Found 2 links on  
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html purporting to 
be LOOKAT.
Both point to an invalid URL

Curiuosor and Curiuosor!

Al Staller | Z Systems Programmer | KBM Group | (Tel) 972 664-3565 | 
allan.stal...@kbmg.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Staller, Allan
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 8:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

Curiuosor and Curiuosor!

Works fine with Google Chrome
Works OK   with IE 10 (need to look at the Microsoft article)
Re-directs w/Firefox 25.0.1



Al Staller | Z Systems Programmer | KBM Group | (Tel) 972 664-3565 | 
allan.stal...@kbmg.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve Comstock
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 8:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

On 12/13/2013 6:57 AM, Steve Comstock wrote:
 On 12/13/2013 6:43 AM, Staller, Allan wrote:
 What URL are you using.

 I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
 And got re-directed to
 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

 which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.

 ???

 snip
 I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
 /snip

 -
 - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, 
 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO 
 IBM-MAIN



 Interesting. I just tried the first link you gave me and it went right 
 there!

 --


 Kind regards,

 -Steve Comstock
 The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

 303-355-2752
 http://www.trainersfriend.com

 * We are going out of business effective 30 December, 2013

 * To purchase a set of our training materials at terrific prices,
check out our Going Out Of Business Sale:

  http://www.trainersfriend.com/SpecialSale

 --
 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
 email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


Well, on closer examination, I did get re-directed, but it was to

   http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

which is the classic LookAt.

-Steve

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Re: Lookat

[Steve Comstock]

[top posting]


Very curious since it worked fine for me using Firefox 25.0.1

Question: are you using an add-on like NoScript?

-Steve


On 12/13/2013 7:07 AM, Staller, Allan wrote:

Curiuosor and Curiuosor!

Works fine with Google Chrome
Works OK   with IE 10 (need to look at the Microsoft article)
Re-directs w/Firefox 25.0.1



Al Staller | Z Systems Programmer | KBM Group | (Tel) 972 664-3565 | 
allan.stal...@kbmg.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve Comstock
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 8:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

On 12/13/2013 6:57 AM, Steve Comstock wrote:

On 12/13/2013 6:43 AM, Staller, Allan wrote:

What URL are you using.

I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
And got re-directed to
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.

???

snip
I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
/snip

-
- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO
IBM-MAIN




Interesting. I just tried the first link you gave me and it went right
there!

--


Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-355-2752
http://www.trainersfriend.com

* We are going out of business effective 30 December, 2013

* To purchase a set of our training materials at terrific prices,
check out our Going Out Of Business Sale:

  http://www.trainersfriend.com/SpecialSale

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



Well, on closer examination, I did get re-directed, but it was to

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

which is the classic LookAt.

-Steve

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Re: Lookat

[Staller, Allan]

NOPE!

Al Staller | Z Systems Programmer | KBM Group | (Tel) 972 664-3565 | 
allan.stal...@kbmg.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve Comstock
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 8:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

[top posting]


Very curious since it worked fine for me using Firefox 25.0.1

Question: are you using an add-on like NoScript?

-Steve


On 12/13/2013 7:07 AM, Staller, Allan wrote:
 Curiuosor and Curiuosor!

 Works fine with Google Chrome
 Works OK   with IE 10 (need to look at the Microsoft article)
 Re-directs w/Firefox 25.0.1



 Al Staller | Z Systems Programmer | KBM Group | (Tel) 972 664-3565 | 
 allan.stal...@kbmg.com


 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
 On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
 Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 8:01 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: Lookat

 On 12/13/2013 6:57 AM, Steve Comstock wrote:
 On 12/13/2013 6:43 AM, Staller, Allan wrote:
 What URL are you using.

 I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
 And got re-directed to
 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

 which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.

 ???

 snip
 I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
 /snip

 
 -
 - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, 
 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO 
 IBM-MAIN



 Interesting. I just tried the first link you gave me and it went 
 right there!

 --


 Kind regards,

 -Steve Comstock
 The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

 303-355-2752
 http://www.trainersfriend.com

 * We are going out of business effective 30 December, 2013

 * To purchase a set of our training materials at terrific prices,
 check out our Going Out Of Business Sale:

   http://www.trainersfriend.com/SpecialSale

 -
 - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, 
 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO 
 IBM-MAIN


 Well, on closer examination, I did get re-directed, but it was to

 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/

 which is the classic LookAt.

 -Steve

 --
 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
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Re: Lookat

[Farley, Peter x23353]

That Lookat web page may be there but it is not working very well.  A search 
for message IEC036 generated this result:

Message id IEC036 was not found.

Ensure the message id is complete/correct.

It is possible this message id is documented in a book that is not yet 
LookAt-enabled. You might try a newer release.

You may use LookAt feedback to inform IBM.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gonzalo Cengotita
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 8:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

I'm using http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/ and it's
working at this moment


2013/12/13 Staller, Allan allan.stal...@kbmg.com

 What URL are you using.

 I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
 And got re-directed to
 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

 which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.

 ???

 snip
 I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
 /snip
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Re: Lookat

[Ed Finnell]

I wonder if someone sent the bean counters in internal memo something  to 
the effect 'Hey, we use this too and we depend on it to do our jobs!'
 
Looking ahead  guess I would envision a mobile app Lookat. It would be  
like a News reader or RSS feed with continual updates and customizable via  
component and vendor. If there was no wifi it would use what it had  downloaded.
 
 
 
In a message dated 12/13/2013 4:38:10 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
rob.k...@reedelsevier.com writes:

Thank  You to those whom resurrected  Lookat

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Re: Lookat

[Skeldum, William]

IEC036I is the entire message.  If you want to use just IEC036 use a wildcard 
such as IEC036*.

I don't use Lookat too much so I don't know if this is new behavior.

Bill Skeldum

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 11:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

That Lookat web page may be there but it is not working very well.  A search 
for message IEC036 generated this result:

Message id IEC036 was not found.

Ensure the message id is complete/correct.

It is possible this message id is documented in a book that is not yet 
LookAt-enabled. You might try a newer release.

You may use LookAt feedback to inform IBM.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gonzalo Cengotita
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 8:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

I'm using http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/ and it's 
working at this moment


2013/12/13 Staller, Allan allan.stal...@kbmg.com

 What URL are you using.

 I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
 And got re-directed to
 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

 which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.

 ???

 snip
 I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
 /snip
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Re: Lookat

[Farley, Peter x23353]

I stand corrected!  Thank you for spotting my error.  Entering IEC036I does 
indeed return the correct MC page.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Skeldum, William
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 2:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

IEC036I is the entire message.  If you want to use just IEC036 use a wildcard 
such as IEC036*.

I don't use Lookat too much so I don't know if this is new behavior.

Bill Skeldum

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 11:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

That Lookat web page may be there but it is not working very well.  A search 
for message IEC036 generated this result:

Message id IEC036 was not found.

Ensure the message id is complete/correct.

It is possible this message id is documented in a book that is not yet 
LookAt-enabled. You might try a newer release.

You may use LookAt feedback to inform IBM.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gonzalo Cengotita
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 8:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

I'm using http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/ and it's 
working at this moment


2013/12/13 Staller, Allan allan.stal...@kbmg.com

 What URL are you using.

 I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
 And got re-directed to
 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

 which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.

 ???

 snip
 I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
 /snip
--

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Re: Lookat

[Don Leahy]

I am a big fan of the TSO version of LOOKAT.  Count me among those puzzled by 
the decision to get rid of BookManager.  

Sent from my iPad

 On Dec 13, 2013, at 2:21 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 
 peter.far...@broadridge.com wrote:
 
 I stand corrected!  Thank you for spotting my error.  Entering IEC036I does 
 indeed return the correct MC page.
 
 Peter
 
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
 Behalf Of Skeldum, William
 Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 2:15 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: Lookat
 
 IEC036I is the entire message.  If you want to use just IEC036 use a wildcard 
 such as IEC036*.
 
 I don't use Lookat too much so I don't know if this is new behavior.
 
 Bill Skeldum
 
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
 Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
 Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 11:57 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: Lookat
 
 That Lookat web page may be there but it is not working very well.  A search 
 for message IEC036 generated this result:
 
 Message id IEC036 was not found.
 
 Ensure the message id is complete/correct.
 
 It is possible this message id is documented in a book that is not yet 
 LookAt-enabled. You might try a newer release.
 
 You may use LookAt feedback to inform IBM.
 
 Peter
 
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
 Behalf Of Gonzalo Cengotita
 Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 8:52 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: Lookat
 
 I'm using http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/ and it's 
 working at this moment
 
 
 2013/12/13 Staller, Allan allan.stal...@kbmg.com
 
 What URL are you using.
 
 I used www.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/lookat/
 And got re-directed to
 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html
 
 which *IS NOT* the LOOKAT I was expecting.
 
 ???
 
 snip
 I just tried it ! Lookat is back !! Now that's what I call good news.
 /snip
 --
 
 This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the 
 addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If 
 the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized 
 representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
 dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have 
 received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail 
 and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
 
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Re: Lookat

[Jantje.]

On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 12:11:14 -0500, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote:

I've never used Lookat as I've always found it very fast and easy to access 
BookManager on the mainframe using the SimpList interface. For example, let's 
say I'm in the middle of writing a DB2/COBOL program and I want to know the 
syntax for INSPECT. In this case I'd type the following on the command line:

BR   .COBOL   INSPECT

And right you are!

Only one snag: IBM in all its wisdom has decided to kill BookManager. :-(
Oh, and I am still waiting to meet the first person that actually understands 
that decision.

Jantje.

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Re: Lookat

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Jantje. wrote:

Only one snag: IBM in all its wisdom has decided to kill BookManager. :-(

And we used that nice toy written by Paul Dorn, IBM WSC, which are useful to 
locate messages explanations in SDSF. You just place a cursor on a message 
prefix in say SYSLOG and then press say PF13. The correct set of message book 
are then shown for you.

To think that it was my idea ( around 1993 or so ) to use the BookManager 
datasets in a shared UserCatalog. I used BookManager as a proof of concept that 
shared UserCatalog is really really really safe to use as long RACF and 
Catalogs are setup correctly. Just one set of books shared by all LPARS. That 
was a novel idea which was accepted quickly by my management and grudgily by my 
storage team.

Oh, and I am still waiting to meet the first person that actually understands 
that decision.

Forget it. That person name is not 'Lookat (Me)'! ;-D

You could as well try to ask big blue how many mainframes are sold this year. 
;-)

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Lookat

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013 05:24:58 -0600, Jantje. wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 12:11:14 -0500, Dave Salt wrote:

I've never used Lookat as I've always found it very fast and easy to access 
BookManager on the mainframe using the SimpList interface. For example, let's 
say I'm in the middle of writing a DB2/COBOL program and I want to know the 
syntax for INSPECT. In this case I'd type the following on the command line:

BR   .COBOL   INSPECT

And right you are!

Only one snag: IBM in all its wisdom has decided to kill BookManager. :-(
Oh, and I am still waiting to meet the first person that actually understands 
that decision.
 
Outsource the task to a concern that specializes in web site design and
knows nothing of the target enterprise.  They'll never have to use their
product.

-- gil

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Re: Lookat

[Clark Morris]

On 11 Dec 2013 21:49:20 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

We do a flash drive, but probably not enough capacity for all the
manuals you want.

I can get a 32 GB flash drive for under 50 Canadian dollars if I watch
for a sale and I have seen 64 GB drives advertised.  

Clark Morris

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:30 PM, Elardus Engelbrecht
elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za wrote:
 Mike Schwab wrote:

Maybe a copy on an external disk drive?

 Good idea, now I have pondering on it, I'll have a nice discussion with my 
 DRP team so we can replace DVDs with external hard drives.

 Just with the envelopes containing details of the special ids, I could 
 arrange that instead of CD / DVD with bookmanager, we can use external hard 
 drive (Verbatim USB Store and Go 500 GB for example). Then we can also store 
 IPL procedures and other similar documentations on that drives too.

 Thanks Mike for your good idea!

 Groete / Greetings
 Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Lookat

[Gord Tomlin]

On 2013-12-12 13:57, Clark Morris wrote:

I can get a 32 GB flash drive for under 50 Canadian dollars if I watch
for a sale and I have seen 64 GB drives advertised.


Apparently you are missing the good sales! I bought 32 GB USB 3.0 sticks 
for about CAD $16.


--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507

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Re: Lookat

[zMan]

Clark lives in the Maritimes, remember...a lot further from China where the
USB drives are made :-)

(But he can get good, fresh fish a lot cheaper than most of us!)


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Gord Tomlin 
gt.ibm.li...@actionsoftware.com wrote:

 On 2013-12-12 13:57, Clark Morris wrote:

 I can get a 32 GB flash drive for under 50 Canadian dollars if I watch
 for a sale and I have seen 64 GB drives advertised.


 Apparently you are missing the good sales! I bought 32 GB USB 3.0 sticks
 for about CAD $16.

 --

 Regards, Gord Tomlin
 Action Software International
 (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
 Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507


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-- 
zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it

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Re: Lookat

[Scott Ford]

zMan,

Does mean the prices are better? 

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
from my IPAD

'Infinite wisdom through infinite means'


 On Dec 12, 2013, at 5:51 PM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Clark lives in the Maritimes, remember...a lot further from China where the
 USB drives are made :-)
 
 (But he can get good, fresh fish a lot cheaper than most of us!)
 
 
 On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Gord Tomlin 
 gt.ibm.li...@actionsoftware.com wrote:
 
 On 2013-12-12 13:57, Clark Morris wrote:
 
 I can get a 32 GB flash drive for under 50 Canadian dollars if I watch
 for a sale and I have seen 64 GB drives advertised.
 
 Apparently you are missing the good sales! I bought 32 GB USB 3.0 sticks
 for about CAD $16.
 
 --
 
 Regards, Gord Tomlin
 Action Software International
 (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
 Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
 
 
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 -- 
 zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it
 
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Re: Lookat

[Tidy, David (D)]

For the older releases, my extra! macro still works, and a little vbs script 
like this will get there for z/OS 1.12. I suspect I will continue to look at 
the back-level messages as long as I can

Option Explicit
Dim Result
result = InputBox(Message id, , )
Dim IE
Set IE = createobject(InternetExplorer.Application)
IE.Visible = True
IE.Navigate 
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/os390/lookat?required=msgidmissing_fields_redirect=%2Fsystems%2Fz%2Fos%2Fzos%2Fbkserv%2Flookat%2Flookatidmiss.htmlmsgid=;
  result  release=ZOS%2FV1R12submit.x=13submit.y=11


Best regards, 
David Tidy      Tel:(31)115-67-1745 
IS Technical Management/SAP-Mf     
Dow Benelux B.V.                      

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mark Pace
Sent: 10 December 2013 22:48
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

I'll be going back to downloading PDF files and manually searching through
messages  codes manuals.

...

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Re: Lookat

[John Blythe Reid]

The oficial wording:


*LookAt is being sunset with the announcement of the new version of zOS.
You can continue to access older releases of messages at the website AS-IS.
Neither the site nor the content will continue to be updated.  The
Information Centers are the current IBM tactical means to search for all
technical documentation including messages.  Soon these will be replaced
with the IBM strategic Knowledge Centers.*
According to this we should still be able to access it, but it won't be
updated. Maybe the redirection is just a temporary problem. I hope so, as
it's a bit of a blow to lose it. It really is a useful tool.

I had to look at a U4093 (Language Environment) abend yesterday. With
LookAt I had the message text and reason code explanation in seconds. If I
type U4093 into the z/OS 1.13 Infocenter the search result is useless.
Maybe buried down there somewhere is a description of the abend but it
would take so long to find it it's quicker to go to the LE messages manual.

Regards,
John




On 10 December 2013 20:26, Kevin Minerley k60ek...@us.ibm.com wrote:

 Here is the official wording we have had on the LookAt website for some
 months now:

 LookAt is being sunset with the announcement of the new version of zOS.
 You can continue to access older releases of messages at the website AS-IS.
 Neither the site nor the content will continue to be updated.  The
 Information Centers are the current IBM tactical means to search for all
 technical documentation including messages.  Soon these will be replaced
 with the IBM strategic Knowledge Centers.


 So from v2r1 forward, you really should go to the zOS Library page
 (currently corporate has but a re-direct from the old LookAt site to here):

 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

 which has the Information Center and will eventually have the Knowledge
 Center.

 We still keep the Messages and Codes extended shelf with ALS indexed
 PDFS current at the zOS Library site (at least until Knowledge Center comes
 along), so you can get a near BookManager-like search on the message books
 from the PDFs.   You can also download this shelf from the IBM Publications
 Center.  The order number is SK5T-9251.

 Obviously this affects zVM and zVSE as well.

 Hope you enjoyed your years of using LookAt!

 Kevin Minerley
 LookAt architect since its inception

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-- 
John Blythe Reid,
Técnico de Sistemas de z/OS y de Sistemas Transaccionales,
Barcelona,
España.

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Re: Lookat

[Bonno, Tuco]

sarcasm
love it
/sarcasm
sounds like another example of what in German is called a Schlimmbesserung:  an 
improvement which makes things worse.
welcome to the modern world: new, and certainly NOT improved.  why the hell 
can't they just leave things alone?

/s/ tuco bonno; 
Graduate, College of Conflict Management;
University of SouthEast Asia;
I partied on the Ho Chi Minh Trail - tiến lên !! 






-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Blythe Reid
Sent: Wednesday, 11 December, 2013 06:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lookat

The oficial wording:


*LookAt is being sunset with the announcement of the new version of zOS.
You can continue to access older releases of messages at the website AS-IS.
Neither the site nor the content will continue to be updated.  The Information 
Centers are the current IBM tactical means to search for all technical 
documentation including messages.  Soon these will be replaced with the IBM 
strategic Knowledge Centers.* According to this we should still be able to 
access it, but it won't be updated. Maybe the redirection is just a temporary 
problem. I hope so, as it's a bit of a blow to lose it. It really is a useful 
tool.

I had to look at a U4093 (Language Environment) abend yesterday. With LookAt I 
had the message text and reason code explanation in seconds. If I type U4093 
into the z/OS 1.13 Infocenter the search result is useless.
Maybe buried down there somewhere is a description of the abend but it would 
take so long to find it it's quicker to go to the LE messages manual.

Regards,
John




On 10 December 2013 20:26, Kevin Minerley k60ek...@us.ibm.com wrote:

 Here is the official wording we have had on the LookAt website for 
 some months now:

 LookAt is being sunset with the announcement of the new version of zOS.
 You can continue to access older releases of messages at the website AS-IS.
 Neither the site nor the content will continue to be updated.  The 
 Information Centers are the current IBM tactical means to search for 
 all technical documentation including messages.  Soon these will be 
 replaced with the IBM strategic Knowledge Centers.


 So from v2r1 forward, you really should go to the zOS Library page 
 (currently corporate has but a re-direct from the old LookAt site to here):

 http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/index.html

 which has the Information Center and will eventually have the 
 Knowledge Center.

 We still keep the Messages and Codes extended shelf with ALS indexed 
 PDFS current at the zOS Library site (at least until Knowledge Center 
 comes along), so you can get a near BookManager-like search on the message 
 books
 from the PDFs.   You can also download this shelf from the IBM Publications
 Center.  The order number is SK5T-9251.

 Obviously this affects zVM and zVSE as well.

 Hope you enjoyed your years of using LookAt!

 Kevin Minerley
 LookAt architect since its inception

 --
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--
John Blythe Reid,
Técnico de Sistemas de z/OS y de Sistemas Transaccionales, Barcelona, España.

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Re: Lookat

[Jantje.]

On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 13:26:08 -0600, Kevin Minerley k60ek...@us.ibm.com wrote:

We still keep the Messages and Codes extended shelf with ALS indexed PDFS 
current at the zOS Library site (at least until Knowledge Center comes along), 
so you can get a near BookManager-like search on the message books from the 
PDFs.   You can also download this shelf from the IBM Publications Center.  
The order number is SK5T-9251.


...a nearBookmanager-like search...

You can't be serious!

We have been ranting about the useless search and dito navigation of the 
infocenters from the day they came out. 

Jantje.

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Re: Lookat

[Kevin Minerley]

Ah,  notice I did *not* say InfoCenter,  I said shelf.  We still build XKS 
(eXtended) shelves
and since we use the BookManager Advanced Linguistic Search (ALS) to index the 
PDFS on 
those shelves, indeed, the search is BookManager-like  as it has a related 
BKIndex.

Sincerely, 
Kevin Minerley

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Re: Lookat

[Kevin Minerley]

Consider using the Messages and Codes bookshelf  on the zOS Library page 
until KC comes along.  I've
tried to address its similarities to part some of what was in LookAt.

Sincerely, 
Kevin Minerley

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Re: Lookat

[Staller, Allan]

Too much of this lately! Reference the IBMLINK outages.


snip

sarcasm
love it
/sarcasm
sounds like another example of what in German is called a Schlimmbesserung:  an 
improvement which makes things worse.
welcome to the modern world: new, and certainly NOT improved.  why the hell 
can't they just leave things alone?
/snip

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Re: Lookat

[Hunkeler, Peter]

sarcasm
love it
/sarcasm
sounds like another example of what in German is called a Schlimmbesserung:  
an improvement which makes things worse.
welcome to the modern world: new, and certainly NOT improved.  why the hell 
can't they just leave things alone?

There is the strong yet wrong believe the internet has become so fast that 
instead of returning the tiny bit I'm looking for, it's an added value to throw 
everything at me. Shudder! With the old BookMaster interface, it took me a few 
clicks returning few information each to go to the place I was looking for. I 
sadly recognize these comfortable times are gone. 

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Peter Hunkeler

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Re: Lookat

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Hunkeler, Peter wrote:

There is the strong yet wrong believe the internet has become so fast that 
instead of returning the tiny bit I'm looking for, it's an added value to 
throw everything at me. Shudder! With the old BookMaster interface, it took me 
a few clicks returning few information each to go to the place I was looking 
for. I sadly recognize these comfortable times are gone.  

I cannot shut up anymore! What about DRP situation? Are there any guarantee the 
books (and internet) are available during DRP tests / realistic?

We have for example two or more sets of Bookmanager in CD / DVD format. The 
contents were installed on various network servers, laptop / PCs, z/OS on 
various sites including DRP sites.

Just tell me how to access that library server during a DRP situation (real or 
test) and then I will sleep peacefully.

Of course, it is a PITA trying to download [1] all those books, shelves and 
indexes. I'm not really up to the challenge that I missed a prized book during 
a DRP!

Ok, enough ranting! :-/

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

[1] - Internet is not really that fast enough here in South Africa. But it is 
improving with all those new sea cables and new sattelites as well as new 
backbones and ISPs.  We can perhaps watch YouTube/CNN/Space.Com/etc videos, but 
most of the time we pause the vid in the first few seconds and then wait for 
the download bar to fill up so about 3/4 of the length, then we can play it 
without any stutterings. That is if there are NO timeouts. I'm talking about 
videos not in HD format, but lower resolution.

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Re: Lookat

[Mike Schwab]

Maybe a copy on an external disk drive?

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht
elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za wrote:
 Hunkeler, Peter wrote:

There is the strong yet wrong believe the internet has become so fast that 
instead of returning the tiny bit I'm looking for, it's an added value to 
throw everything at me. Shudder! With the old BookMaster interface, it took 
me a few clicks returning few information each to go to the place I was 
looking for. I sadly recognize these comfortable times are gone.

 I cannot shut up anymore! What about DRP situation? Are there any guarantee 
 the books (and internet) are available during DRP tests / realistic?

 We have for example two or more sets of Bookmanager in CD / DVD format. The 
 contents were installed on various network servers, laptop / PCs, z/OS on 
 various sites including DRP sites.

 Just tell me how to access that library server during a DRP situation (real 
 or test) and then I will sleep peacefully.

 Of course, it is a PITA trying to download [1] all those books, shelves and 
 indexes. I'm not really up to the challenge that I missed a prized book 
 during a DRP!

 Ok, enough ranting! :-/

 Groete / Greetings
 Elardus Engelbrecht

 [1] - Internet is not really that fast enough here in South Africa. But it is 
 improving with all those new sea cables and new sattelites as well as new 
 backbones and ISPs.  We can perhaps watch YouTube/CNN/Space.Com/etc videos, 
 but most of the time we pause the vid in the first few seconds and then wait 
 for the download bar to fill up so about 3/4 of the length, then we can play 
 it without any stutterings. That is if there are NO timeouts. I'm talking 
 about videos not in HD format, but lower resolution.

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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Lookat

[Dave Salt]

I've never used Lookat as I've always found it very fast and easy to access 
BookManager on the mainframe using the SimpList interface. For example, let's 
say I'm in the middle of writing a DB2/COBOL program and I want to know the 
syntax for INSPECT. In this case I'd type the following on the command line:

BR   .COBOL   INSPECT

This means 'Browse whatever object has been assigned to the COBOL label (in 
this case, this is the label I've given to the syntax manual on the COBOL 
bookshelf) and search for INSPECT'. The COBOL syntax manual instantly opens and 
every reference to INSPECT is displayed. 

When I run the program, let's say it ends with an SQL code I wasn't expecting 
(e.g. -415). I can go to any ISPF command line and type the following:

BR   .SQLCODE   -415

This opens the messages and codes manual on the DB2 bookshelf and displays 
every reference to SQL code -415.

BookManager lets you create your own personalized bookshelves, so you could 
(for example) create a bookshelf that lists every messages and codes manual. 
Lets say you give this bookshelf a label called MSGS, and later on you want to 
search every manual on the messages and codes bookshelf for ISPD241. You'd 
simply type this on any ISPF command line:

BR   .MSGS   ISPD241 

This is very fast, very easy, it works for anything (not just messages and 
codes), and no internet connection is required. 

Dave Salt

SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! 

http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html  


 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:28:52 -0600
 From: mike.a.sch...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: Lookat
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 
 Maybe a copy on an external disk drive?
 
 On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht
 elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za wrote:
  Hunkeler, Peter wrote:
 
 There is the strong yet wrong believe the internet has become so fast that 
 instead of returning the tiny bit I'm looking for, it's an added value to 
 throw everything at me. Shudder! With the old BookMaster interface, it took 
 me a few clicks returning few information each to go to the place I was 
 looking for. I sadly recognize these comfortable times are gone.
 
  I cannot shut up anymore! What about DRP situation? Are there any guarantee 
  the books (and internet) are available during DRP tests / realistic?
 
  We have for example two or more sets of Bookmanager in CD / DVD format. The 
  contents were installed on various network servers, laptop / PCs, z/OS on 
  various sites including DRP sites.
 
  Just tell me how to access that library server during a DRP situation (real 
  or test) and then I will sleep peacefully.
 
  Of course, it is a PITA trying to download [1] all those books, shelves and 
  indexes. I'm not really up to the challenge that I missed a prized book 
  during a DRP!
 
  Ok, enough ranting! :-/
 
  Groete / Greetings
  Elardus Engelbrecht
 
  [1] - Internet is not really that fast enough here in South Africa. But it 
  is improving with all those new sea cables and new sattelites as well as 
  new backbones and ISPs.  We can perhaps watch YouTube/CNN/Space.Com/etc 
  videos, but most of the time we pause the vid in the first few seconds and 
  then wait for the download bar to fill up so about 3/4 of the length, then 
  we can play it without any stutterings. That is if there are NO timeouts. 
  I'm talking about videos not in HD format, but lower resolution.
 
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 -- 
 Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
 Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
 
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Re: Lookat

[Mike Schwab]

We do a flash drive, but probably not enough capacity for all the
manuals you want.

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:30 PM, Elardus Engelbrecht
elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za wrote:
 Mike Schwab wrote:

Maybe a copy on an external disk drive?

 Good idea, now I have pondering on it, I'll have a nice discussion with my 
 DRP team so we can replace DVDs with external hard drives.

 Just with the envelopes containing details of the special ids, I could 
 arrange that instead of CD / DVD with bookmanager, we can use external hard 
 drive (Verbatim USB Store and Go 500 GB for example). Then we can also store 
 IPL procedures and other similar documentations on that drives too.

 Thanks Mike for your good idea!

 Groete / Greetings
 Elardus Engelbrecht

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Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Lookat

[Ed Finnell]

The bean counters sunset it a few months back. It was kinda glommed over on 
 this list. You'd think SHARE or some of the big users would have a hissy  
fit at loosing a real productivity aid.  
 
 
 
In a message dated 12/10/2013 11:54:30 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
george.mos...@icbc.com writes:

How can  they take away something so  useful???



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Re: Lookat

[Mark Pace]

That's a surprise.  I use Lookat almost weekly.  I'll be very disappointed,
and less efficient, if Lookat does not come back.


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Mosley, George george.mos...@icbc.comwrote:

 What the heck happened to Lookat?

 How can they take away something so useful???

 George Mosley
 ICBC
 
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