Re: [EXT] Re: Userid schemes

[zMan]

At least it he wasn't Greg Sextin! though back then that word didn't mean
anything...

On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 9:00 AM Crawford Robert C (Contractor) <
04e08f385650-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> My favorite user ID mess was on an old Vax system that used the last name
> followed by first initial.  Of course this system began each printed report
> with a banner page listing the user's ID printed in large, block letters.
> One day I went to the printer and noticed a report from user SEXTONG.
> While I was puzzling over this an embarrassed Greg Sexton came up and
> snatched his report off of the printer.
>
> Robert Crawford
> Abstract Evolutions LLC
> (210) 913-3822
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 4:53 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: [EXT] Re: Userid schemes
>
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 17:22:12 -0400, Phil Smith III wrote:
>
> >I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character
> userids, all truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't
> tell ya where each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or
> intials):
> >
> It was egregious underreaching when IBM increased the permitted length of
> TSO IDs from 7 to 8.  They should have gone to something more
> characteristic of extant systems, probably several dozen, using
> USERIDALIASTABLE if needed to perform the mapping.
> <
> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=srsci-if-you-have-problems-names-such-as-uucp-uucpg-tty
> >
>
> >Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no
> agenda.
> >
> I once worked for an organization that used last name, first initial,
> middle initial.  After searching phone directories, I wondered whether
> Cheng K. Fu of San Diego, CA would ever apply for employment there.
>
> (They were inflexible.  A co-worker was required to change her user ID
> because of marriage.)
>
> --
> gil
>
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Re: [EXT] Re: Userid schemes

[Crawford Robert C (Contractor)]

My favorite user ID mess was on an old Vax system that used the last name 
followed by first initial.  Of course this system began each printed report 
with a banner page listing the user's ID printed in large, block letters.  One 
day I went to the printer and noticed a report from user SEXTONG.  While I was 
puzzling over this an embarrassed Greg Sexton came up and snatched his report 
off of the printer.

Robert Crawford
Abstract Evolutions LLC
(210) 913-3822

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 4:53 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Userid schemes

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 17:22:12 -0400, Phil Smith III wrote:

>I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids, all 
>truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't tell ya where 
>each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or intials):
>
It was egregious underreaching when IBM increased the permitted length of TSO 
IDs from 7 to 8.  They should have gone to something more characteristic of 
extant systems, probably several dozen, using USERIDALIASTABLE if needed to 
perform the mapping.
<https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=srsci-if-you-have-problems-names-such-as-uucp-uucpg-tty>

>Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no agenda.
>
I once worked for an organization that used last name, first initial, middle 
initial.  After searching phone directories, I wondered whether Cheng K. Fu of 
San Diego, CA would ever apply for employment there.

(They were inflexible.  A co-worker was required to change her user ID because 
of marriage.)

--
gil

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Re: Userid schemes

[Tony Thigpen]

While I might agree to that somewhat, it fails when you also use the 
userid for other things, such as email, where the userid is 'public'. 
But, uses of alias for public view can resolve that issue.


For instance, my email userid at 'vse2pdf.com' is not 'tony', it's 
something else. t...@vse2pdf.com is an alias. So, any attempt to log 
into my email server using t...@vse2pdf.com will always fail.


Tony Thigpen

Michael Brennan wrote on 7/15/23 6:05 PM:

A good userid scheme should not identify who the userid belongs to or the
job function of the person.  Several places I have worked had this
philosophy.  All userids that belonged to a human began with the letter U
followed by 3 to 6 random characters and numbers.

On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 4:22 PM Phil Smith III  wrote:


I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids,
all truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't tell ya
where each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or intials):

1.  First initial, last name, plus a number as needed: PSMITH, PSMITH1
2.  Last name || first name, with number if necessary, but always
including first initial: SMITHIIP, or SMITHIP2 if needed
3.  First three of last name, first two of first name, plus a number:
SMIPH03 (I've always wondered how they'd deal with Kyle Fuchs or Tyrone
Shipman)
4.  First initial, last name, truncated to max of six with a two-digit
number: I was PSMITH87; friend was TSMITH99-we never found out what the
next T. Smith would get: would they reuse a hole, if any, or go to TSMIT100?


Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no
agenda.


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Re: Userid schemes

[Michael Brennan]

A good userid scheme should not identify who the userid belongs to or the
job function of the person.  Several places I have worked had this
philosophy.  All userids that belonged to a human began with the letter U
followed by 3 to 6 random characters and numbers.

On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 4:22 PM Phil Smith III  wrote:

> I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids,
> all truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't tell ya
> where each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or intials):
>
> 1.  First initial, last name, plus a number as needed: PSMITH, PSMITH1
> 2.  Last name || first name, with number if necessary, but always
> including first initial: SMITHIIP, or SMITHIP2 if needed
> 3.  First three of last name, first two of first name, plus a number:
> SMIPH03 (I've always wondered how they'd deal with Kyle Fuchs or Tyrone
> Shipman)
> 4.  First initial, last name, truncated to max of six with a two-digit
> number: I was PSMITH87; friend was TSMITH99-we never found out what the
> next T. Smith would get: would they reuse a hole, if any, or go to TSMIT100?
>
>
> Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no
> agenda.
>
>
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-- 
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Re: Userid schemes

[P H]

At one time, many moons ago, IBM systems which used the employee number for the 
userid, the world-wide 'uniqueness' was simple by prefixing the employee number 
by the letters GB (Great Britain) or IBM's oountry code for countries it 
operated in e.g. 866 for Great Britain.

Regards

Parwez Hamid​

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
David Spiegel <0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: 14 July 2023 14:58
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Userid schemes

Hi Paul,
You said: "...Just remarking that "man number" is conspicuously
gender-specific.  ..."
True, but, you have to remember the historical context for it.

You said: "...IBM has over 300,000 employees. Are the numbers required
to be unique? ..."
AFAIK, my number was unique in Canada.
My Retain ID had to be changed because someone else (probably an
American) already was using my Man Number to LOGON.

Regards,
David

On 2023-07-14 09:45, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 06:43:49 -0400, David Spiegel  wrote:
>> EEOC is an American thing. In Canada, we have an equivalent.
>>
> Just remarking that "man number" is conspicuously gender-specific.
>
>> Please explain:  "... Five digits isn't enough. ..." Enough for what?
>>
> IBM has over 300,000 employees.  Are the numbers required to be unique?
>
>> (I think you're confusing employee number with SIN (equivalent to
>> American SSN).
>
>> On 2023-07-13 22:53, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 21:56:55 -0400, David Spiegel wrote:
>>>> When I worked at IBM Canada full time (1994-2002), our TSO Userids were
>>>> XXn, where n was a person's "man number" (aka employee number).

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Re: Userid schemes

[Bob Bridges]

 Nah, that's an old myth that (I think) sprang up only in my 
lifetime.  "Man" has always applied, in English, to humans and also to adult 
males, depending on context.  I'm still unembarrassed to use the term 
"man-hours".

At about the same time sprang up the myth that "my" indicates ownership, and as 
far as I can tell it was presented by the same people and for the same reason.  
"My wife" doesn't mean "I own" any more than does "my career", "my god" or "my 
favorite food".

---
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/* God blesses or afflicts us with people according to our needs.  -Bob Mumford 
*/

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 09:46

Just remarking that "man number" is conspicuously gender-specific.

>> --- On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 21:56:55 -0400, David Spiegel wrote:
>>> When I worked at IBM Canada full time (1994-2002), our TSO Userids 
>>> were XXn, where n was a person's "man number" (aka employee number).

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Re: Userid schemes

[Seymour J Metz]

I believe that it's because a single id is easier to audit. Apparently easy 
audits are more important than actual security.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Bob 
Bridges 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 9:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Userid schemes

I fully agree with the general principle that one ID must have no more than one 
owner.  (I'll admit to exceptional cases, but I'll argue about them first.)  
I've never understood the reverse principle that every user must have only one 
ID.  I think the folks who make a rule like that are simply extending the 
previous rule without thinking about why.

...Unless maybe they're thinking about reducing workload for the admins, who 
then may have to create extra IDs for each user.  That doesn't apply in Mr 
Paice's situation.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Never cut what you can untie. -Joseph Joubert (1754-1824) */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Colin Paice
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 07:58

At one point some of us had two userids. SYSPROG1  ... for sysprog stuff, and a 
personal ID.
When anyone moved on they just reallocated SYSPROG1 to a new user, and all the 
accesses continued to work.
If you use a personal ID, you had to connect it to a lot of groups to get the 
access, and remove the retiree from the same groups.

Role based userids are much better and less work

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Re: Userid schemes

[Seymour J Metz]

For testing authorized code, it helps to have a userid with minimal privileges.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Brennan 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 10:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Userid schemes

I had 3 id's on each system, but all had the same sysprog capability.
Mainly it was to avoid the embarrassment of having to go to another
sysprog to fix my #1 id after I messed it up testing or changing
something.  But they also came in handy for testing things like enqueues
and multiple tasks.

For DR testing we tried 3 new role-based id's to be used for OS, CICS,
and DB2 recovery, but that plan kept failing due to lack of authority
over time.  The main sysprogs for each always kept their own access
up-to-date, so we ended up using a 'stub' DR id with SPECIAL access that
could change passwords and use their personal ids.  That worked fine and
the stub userid access was handled by an off-mainframe security system.
The whole idea of course, was for anyone with the printed instructions
to be able to do the DR recovery - no sysprogs needed.  Turns out almost
every test we needed a sysprog anyway, but at least we had that goal.

> At one point some of us had two userids. SYSPROG1  ... for sysprog stuff,
> and a personal ID.
> When anyone moved on they just reallocated SYSPROG1 to a new user, and all
> the accesses continued to work.
> If you use a personal ID, you had to connect it to a lot of groups to get
> the access, and remove the retiree from the same groups.
> Role based userids are much better and less work
>
> Colin

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Re: Userid schemes

[Seymour J Metz]

English has many nouns that have both gender neutral and gender specific uses; 
demanding that we stop using terms that are in no way derogatory is linguistic 
fascism.

OTOH, there are words that really derogatory, and we should refrain from using 
those.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 9:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Userid schemes

On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 06:43:49 -0400, David Spiegel  wrote:
>
>EEOC is an American thing. In Canada, we have an equivalent.
>
Just remarking that "man number" is conspicuously gender-specific.

>Please explain:  "... Five digits isn't enough. ..." Enough for what?
>
IBM has over 300,000 employees.  Are the numbers required to be unique?

>(I think you're confusing employee number with SIN (equivalent to
>American SSN).


>On 2023-07-13 22:53, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 21:56:55 -0400, David Spiegel wrote:
>>> When I worked at IBM Canada full time (1994-2002), our TSO Userids were
>>> XXn, where n was a person's "man number" (aka employee number).

--
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Re: Userid schemes

[Tom Brennan]

I had 3 id's on each system, but all had the same sysprog capability. 
Mainly it was to avoid the embarrassment of having to go to another 
sysprog to fix my #1 id after I messed it up testing or changing 
something.  But they also came in handy for testing things like enqueues 
and multiple tasks.


For DR testing we tried 3 new role-based id's to be used for OS, CICS, 
and DB2 recovery, but that plan kept failing due to lack of authority 
over time.  The main sysprogs for each always kept their own access 
up-to-date, so we ended up using a 'stub' DR id with SPECIAL access that 
could change passwords and use their personal ids.  That worked fine and 
the stub userid access was handled by an off-mainframe security system. 
The whole idea of course, was for anyone with the printed instructions 
to be able to do the DR recovery - no sysprogs needed.  Turns out almost 
every test we needed a sysprog anyway, but at least we had that goal.



At one point some of us had two userids. SYSPROG1  ... for sysprog stuff,
and a personal ID.
When anyone moved on they just reallocated SYSPROG1 to a new user, and all
the accesses continued to work.
If you use a personal ID, you had to connect it to a lot of groups to get
the access, and remove the retiree from the same groups.
Role based userids are much better and less work

Colin


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Re: Userid schemes

[Mike Cairns]

Being a RACF geek and a contractor for roughly half my career I've seen most of 
the conventions people have shared here in this thread.  The best laugh I get 
talking with other mainframe geeks though was from a large bank where the 
algorithm went:

First 5 letters of SURNAME + first initial of first name + first initial of 
middle name.  Either of the last two single character fields could be cycled 
upwards alphabetically (starting from 'A')  until a unique string was obtained 
in case the generated one was already allocated to someone.
  
So my middle name is Francis and my userid became CAIRNCF - Cairns was a not 
uncommon surname in these parts, and thus I didn't get my forename in position 
6, but did get my middle initial in position 7.

The unfortunate fellow who's name is indelibly burned into my mind (and no 
doubt he has never heard this story) was Keith Allen Mumford - who the 
algorithm spat out as MUMFOKA...  We decided to simply revoke that userid and 
roll the dice again.

Cheers - Mike 

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Re: Userid schemes

[Tony Thigpen]

I can verify that CA would adjust the userid if the resulting userid was 
'inappropriate'. One of my coworkers was such a case. Unfortunately, its 
been too long ago and I can't remember the specifics. When CA bought our 
company and told us the new rules, one guy just busted out laughing and 
it took us a minute to figure it out.


Mine was THITO01 and from that point on, everyone just called me Thito. 
(Tee-tow)



Tony Thigpen

Phil Smith III wrote on 7/13/23 5:37 PM:

Jay Maynard wrote:

The one I use was formed by taking the first four non-vowels of the last
name and then the first and second initials.


So I'd be SMTHPH? Ick. I know, I'd get used to it, but.

  


That SMIPH03 really was my ID at CA after Sterling bought them. I didn't mind, 
the 03 was perfect! Highest number we had was BERMA16, which I assume got run 
up by all the Mark and Marie Bergmanns and Bergdorfs and the like out there on 
Lon Guyland.

  


Ain't no perfect scheme, of course. We have someone here whose name is quite 
uncommon-but there's another one of him in the company, so he's got a 2 in his 
ID (yeah, I guess they go right to 2, so my PSMITH1 example was bogus, or at 
least would be bogus here; of course if they were C programmers, the one after 
PSMITH would be PSMITH0).


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Re: Userid schemes

[zMan]

Maybe it wasn't a "man number" as in "male human being", but rather a
"machine automation number number"? /s (but ya gotta admit, it DOES sound
like something IBM would have, complete with redundancy!)

On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 9:59 AM David Spiegel <
0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Hi Paul,
> You said: "...Just remarking that "man number" is conspicuously
> gender-specific.  ..."
> True, but, you have to remember the historical context for it.
>
> You said: "...IBM has over 300,000 employees. Are the numbers required
> to be unique? ..."
> AFAIK, my number was unique in Canada.
> My Retain ID had to be changed because someone else (probably an
> American) already was using my Man Number to LOGON.
>
> Regards,
> David
>
> On 2023-07-14 09:45, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> > On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 06:43:49 -0400, David Spiegel  wrote:
> >> EEOC is an American thing. In Canada, we have an equivalent.
> >>
> > Just remarking that "man number" is conspicuously gender-specific.
> >
> >> Please explain:  "... Five digits isn't enough. ..." Enough for what?
> >>
> > IBM has over 300,000 employees.  Are the numbers required to be unique?
> >
> >> (I think you're confusing employee number with SIN (equivalent to
> >> American SSN).
> >
> >> On 2023-07-13 22:53, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 21:56:55 -0400, David Spiegel wrote:
>  When I worked at IBM Canada full time (1994-2002), our TSO Userids
> were
>  XXn, where n was a person's "man number" (aka employee
> number).
>
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Re: Userid schemes

[Phil Smith III]

Paul Gilmartin wrote, in part:
>IBM has over 300,000 employees.

While it's not relevant to the point you were making, I suspect that number is 
much smaller these days. I'd heard that IBM was down to fewer than 25,000 U.S. 
employees several years ago, before the Kyndryl spinoff and several more WFRs. 
Very sad.


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Re: Userid schemes

[David Spiegel]

Hi Paul,
You said: "...Just remarking that "man number" is conspicuously 
gender-specific.  ..."

True, but, you have to remember the historical context for it.

You said: "...IBM has over 300,000 employees. Are the numbers required 
to be unique? ..."

AFAIK, my number was unique in Canada.
My Retain ID had to be changed because someone else (probably an 
American) already was using my Man Number to LOGON.


Regards,
David

On 2023-07-14 09:45, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 06:43:49 -0400, David Spiegel  wrote:

EEOC is an American thing. In Canada, we have an equivalent.


Just remarking that "man number" is conspicuously gender-specific.


Please explain:  "... Five digits isn't enough. ..." Enough for what?


IBM has over 300,000 employees.  Are the numbers required to be unique?


(I think you're confusing employee number with SIN (equivalent to
American SSN).



On 2023-07-13 22:53, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 21:56:55 -0400, David Spiegel wrote:

When I worked at IBM Canada full time (1994-2002), our TSO Userids were
XXn, where n was a person's "man number" (aka employee number).


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Re: Userid schemes

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 06:43:49 -0400, David Spiegel  wrote:
>
>EEOC is an American thing. In Canada, we have an equivalent.
>
Just remarking that "man number" is conspicuously gender-specific.

>Please explain:  "... Five digits isn't enough. ..." Enough for what?
>
IBM has over 300,000 employees.  Are the numbers required to be unique?

>(I think you're confusing employee number with SIN (equivalent to
>American SSN).


>On 2023-07-13 22:53, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 21:56:55 -0400, David Spiegel wrote:
>>> When I worked at IBM Canada full time (1994-2002), our TSO Userids were
>>> XXn, where n was a person's "man number" (aka employee number).

-- 
gil

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Re: Userid schemes

[Bob Bridges]

Radek, I can't read the mind of Canadian legislators, but I would guess it has 
to do with fraud.  I'm told that one can go through someone's trash, find old 
bills (telephone, power etc) and use that information to convince someone at 
the power company that I'm the householder because I have the bill, know the 
account number etc.  Thence to defrauding the company and possibly the rightful 
owner.  I'm guessing the Canadian thought is that the same sort of thing can 
happen with employee number.

I've worked at one company, as I wrote earlier in this thread, that used emp# 
for proof of identity when getting a password fixed over the phone.  I don't 
think much of that scheme, and maybe that's why I go to that thought when 
guessing about the Canadians' motives.  I have less sympathy for the user ID; 
seems to me that's necessarily a known quantity, at least internally, sort of 
like an IP address.

---
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/* There's remarkable overlap between conservative and liberal complaints about 
the culture. But when traditionalists talk the language of decency and 
morality, the left hears bigotry and theocracy. And when liberals talk about 
sensitivity and white privilege, the right hears something totalitarian. The 
result is that the two sides hold separate conversations.  -Jonah Goldberg, 
2007-04-17 */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 05:39

I would like to know the explanation of such statement. IMHO employee# is as 
internal as userid.
It is NOT SSN or other government number.

--- W dniu 14.07.2023 o 02:32, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
> Many years ago someone reported here that in Canada it was illegal to use
> an employee# as a UID because it's considered privileged HR information.
> I'd guess the same applies to user IDs.

> --- On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:17:38 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>> A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.  
>> xxn

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Re: Userid schemes

[Bob Bridges]

I fully agree with the general principle that one ID must have no more than one 
owner.  (I'll admit to exceptional cases, but I'll argue about them first.)  
I've never understood the reverse principle that every user must have only one 
ID.  I think the folks who make a rule like that are simply extending the 
previous rule without thinking about why.

...Unless maybe they're thinking about reducing workload for the admins, who 
then may have to create extra IDs for each user.  That doesn't apply in Mr 
Paice's situation.

---
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/* Never cut what you can untie. -Joseph Joubert (1754-1824) */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Colin Paice
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 07:58

At one point some of us had two userids. SYSPROG1  ... for sysprog stuff, and a 
personal ID.
When anyone moved on they just reallocated SYSPROG1 to a new user, and all the 
accesses continued to work.
If you use a personal ID, you had to connect it to a lot of groups to get the 
access, and remove the retiree from the same groups.

Role based userids are much better and less work

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Re: Userid schemes

[Seymour J Metz]

You could connect them all to a dummy group with no privileges.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Bob 
Bridges 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 9:27 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Userid schemes

I like the part about service IDs.  One of the challenges at most installations 
I've worked at is being able to identify non-human IDs; they're easy enough to 
spot by eye (because of the name attached to it), but I need some sort of 
indicator when writing a program.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Normal people believe "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  Engineers believe 
that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.  -from _The 
Dilbert Principal_ by Scott Adams */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jack Zukt
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 03:30

First position for the company first letter and six digits with the employee 
number. For external people, "EX" and five digits for a sequence number. "Y" 
for service userids with up to seven letters taken from the product name (as 
these do not logon to TSO, eight positions could be used) Regards Jack

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Re: Userid schemes

[Seymour J Metz]

I hope that they're not, e.g., defense, financial, health.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Matt Hogstrom 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 9:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Userid schemes

I think it’s not having multiple ID inasmuch as the implied sharing.   Oddly 
enough, I’ve run into a situation where some customers want to map multiple 
distributed IDs to a shared mainframe ID for a given function in an application 
to avoid creating hundreds of IDs for the application support personnel.  I 
guess quantity has a quality all its own.

Matt Hogstrom

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom



> On Jul 14, 2023, at 9:15 AM, David Spiegel 
> <0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi R'Shmuel AMV"SH,
> You said: "...Auditors don't like multiple user ids..."
> It's not the first time auditors have had illogical ideas.
>
> OTOH, 2 or more people sharing a Userid is BAD.
>
> Regards,
> David
>
> On 2023-07-14 08:38, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>> Auditors don't like multiple user ids, but sysprogs are usually in multiple 
>> roles, with different authority requirements.
>>
>> 
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
>> Colin Paice 
>> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 7:57 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Userid schemes
>>
>> Some of the UK banks use your D.O.B as an account number - such as
>> 601225JC12 !  which exposes sensitive information.
>>
>> At one point some of us had two userids. SYSPROG1  ... for sysprog stuff,
>> and a personal ID.
>> When anyone moved on they just reallocated SYSPROG1 to a new user, and all
>> the accesses continued to work.
>> If you use a personal ID, you had to connect it to a lot of groups to get
>> the access, and remove the retiree from the same groups.
>> Role based userids are much better and less work
>>
>> Colin
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 at 10:39, Radoslaw Skorupka <
>> 0471ebeac275-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> W dniu 14.07.2023 o 02:32, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
>>>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:17:38 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.
>>> xxn
>>>> Many years ago someone reported here that in Canada it was illegal to
>>>> use an employee# as a UID because it's considered privileged HR
>>> information.
>>>> I'd guess the same applies to user IDs.
>>>
>>> I would like to know the explanation of such statement. IMHO employee#
>>> is as internal as userid.
>>> It is NOT SSN or other government number.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Radoslaw Skorupka
>>> Lodz, Poland
>>>
>>> --
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Re: Userid schemes

[Bob Bridges]

I like the part about service IDs.  One of the challenges at most installations 
I've worked at is being able to identify non-human IDs; they're easy enough to 
spot by eye (because of the name attached to it), but I need some sort of 
indicator when writing a program.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Normal people believe "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  Engineers believe 
that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.  -from _The 
Dilbert Principal_ by Scott Adams */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jack Zukt
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 03:30

First position for the company first letter and six digits with the employee 
number. For external people, "EX" and five digits for a sequence number. "Y" 
for service userids with up to seven letters taken from the product name (as 
these do not logon to TSO, eight positions could be used) Regards Jack

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Re: Userid schemes

[Matt Hogstrom]

I think it’s not having multiple ID inasmuch as the implied sharing.   Oddly 
enough, I’ve run into a situation where some customers want to map multiple 
distributed IDs to a shared mainframe ID for a given function in an application 
to avoid creating hundreds of IDs for the application support personnel.  I 
guess quantity has a quality all its own.

Matt Hogstrom

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom



> On Jul 14, 2023, at 9:15 AM, David Spiegel 
> <0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi R'Shmuel AMV"SH,
> You said: "...Auditors don't like multiple user ids..."
> It's not the first time auditors have had illogical ideas.
> 
> OTOH, 2 or more people sharing a Userid is BAD.
> 
> Regards,
> David
> 
> On 2023-07-14 08:38, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>> Auditors don't like multiple user ids, but sysprogs are usually in multiple 
>> roles, with different authority requirements.
>> 
>> 
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
>> Colin Paice 
>> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 7:57 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Userid schemes
>> 
>> Some of the UK banks use your D.O.B as an account number - such as
>> 601225JC12 !  which exposes sensitive information.
>> 
>> At one point some of us had two userids. SYSPROG1  ... for sysprog stuff,
>> and a personal ID.
>> When anyone moved on they just reallocated SYSPROG1 to a new user, and all
>> the accesses continued to work.
>> If you use a personal ID, you had to connect it to a lot of groups to get
>> the access, and remove the retiree from the same groups.
>> Role based userids are much better and less work
>> 
>> Colin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 at 10:39, Radoslaw Skorupka <
>> 0471ebeac275-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> W dniu 14.07.2023 o 02:32, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
>>>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:17:38 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.
>>> xxn
>>>> Many years ago someone reported here that in Canada it was illegal to
>>>> use an employee# as a UID because it's considered privileged HR
>>> information.
>>>> I'd guess the same applies to user IDs.
>>> 
>>> I would like to know the explanation of such statement. IMHO employee#
>>> is as internal as userid.
>>> It is NOT SSN or other government number.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Radoslaw Skorupka
>>> Lodz, Poland
>>> 
>>> --
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Re: Userid schemes

[David Spiegel]

Hi R'Shmuel AMV"SH,
You said: "...Auditors don't like multiple user ids..."
It's not the first time auditors have had illogical ideas.

OTOH, 2 or more people sharing a Userid is BAD.

Regards,
David

On 2023-07-14 08:38, Seymour J Metz wrote:

Auditors don't like multiple user ids, but sysprogs are usually in multiple 
roles, with different authority requirements.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Colin 
Paice 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 7:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Userid schemes

Some of the UK banks use your D.O.B as an account number - such as
601225JC12 !  which exposes sensitive information.

At one point some of us had two userids. SYSPROG1  ... for sysprog stuff,
and a personal ID.
When anyone moved on they just reallocated SYSPROG1 to a new user, and all
the accesses continued to work.
If you use a personal ID, you had to connect it to a lot of groups to get
the access, and remove the retiree from the same groups.
Role based userids are much better and less work

Colin



On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 at 10:39, Radoslaw Skorupka <
0471ebeac275-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


W dniu 14.07.2023 o 02:32, Paul Gilmartin pisze:

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:17:38 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:


A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.

xxn

Many years ago someone reported here that in Canada it was illegal to
use an employee# as a UID because it's considered privileged HR

information.

I'd guess the same applies to user IDs.


I would like to know the explanation of such statement. IMHO employee#
is as internal as userid.
It is NOT SSN or other government number.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Userid schemes

[Seymour J Metz]

Auditors don't like multiple user ids, but sysprogs are usually in multiple 
roles, with different authority requirements.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Colin Paice 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 7:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Userid schemes

Some of the UK banks use your D.O.B as an account number - such as
601225JC12 !  which exposes sensitive information.

At one point some of us had two userids. SYSPROG1  ... for sysprog stuff,
and a personal ID.
When anyone moved on they just reallocated SYSPROG1 to a new user, and all
the accesses continued to work.
If you use a personal ID, you had to connect it to a lot of groups to get
the access, and remove the retiree from the same groups.
Role based userids are much better and less work

Colin



On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 at 10:39, Radoslaw Skorupka <
0471ebeac275-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> W dniu 14.07.2023 o 02:32, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
> > On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:17:38 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> >
> >> A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.
> xxn
> >>
> > Many years ago someone reported here that in Canada it was illegal to
> > use an employee# as a UID because it's considered privileged HR
> information.
> > I'd guess the same applies to user IDs.
>
>
> I would like to know the explanation of such statement. IMHO employee#
> is as internal as userid.
> It is NOT SSN or other government number.
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
>
> --
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Userid schemes

[Pommier, Rex]

We still have remnants of IDs from M activities.  Some of them are a 2 
character department followed by 3 random digits, the other is EMP.   Not 
sure if they used CON for contractors or some other combination of letters 
for non-employees.

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Matt Hogstrom
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 7:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Userid schemes

A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.  xxn


Matt Hogstrom

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom



> On Jul 13, 2023, at 8:09 PM, David Spiegel 
> <0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
>> "N" was for Number and "xxx" was a numeric value starting with 1 and 
>> being incremented for the next userid.  Since he was first in the shop, and 
>> he knew RACF, he set himself up as N001, I was the next person hired, 
>> and I got N002.


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Re: Userid schemes

[Colin Paice]

Some of the UK banks use your D.O.B as an account number - such as
601225JC12 !  which exposes sensitive information.

At one point some of us had two userids. SYSPROG1  ... for sysprog stuff,
and a personal ID.
When anyone moved on they just reallocated SYSPROG1 to a new user, and all
the accesses continued to work.
If you use a personal ID, you had to connect it to a lot of groups to get
the access, and remove the retiree from the same groups.
Role based userids are much better and less work

Colin



On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 at 10:39, Radoslaw Skorupka <
0471ebeac275-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> W dniu 14.07.2023 o 02:32, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
> > On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:17:38 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> >
> >> A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.
> xxn
> >>
> > Many years ago someone reported here that in Canada it was illegal to
> > use an employee# as a UID because it's considered privileged HR
> information.
> > I'd guess the same applies to user IDs.
>
>
> I would like to know the explanation of such statement. IMHO employee#
> is as internal as userid.
> It is NOT SSN or other government number.
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
>
> --
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Re: Userid schemes

[David Spiegel]

Hi Paul,
EEOC is an American thing. In Canada, we have an equivalent.
Please explain:  "... Five digits isn't enough. ..." Enough for what?
(I think you're confusing employee number with SIN (equivalent to 
American SSN).


Regards,
David

On 2023-07-13 22:53, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 21:56:55 -0400, David Spiegel wrote:

When I worked at IBM Canada full time (1994-2002), our TSO Userids were
XXn, where n was a person's "man number" (aka employee number).


No EEOC.

Five digits isn't enough.



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Re: Userid schemes

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 14.07.2023 o 02:32, Paul Gilmartin pisze:

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:17:38 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:


A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.  xxn


Many years ago someone reported here that in Canada it was illegal to
use an employee# as a UID because it's considered privileged HR information.
I'd guess the same applies to user IDs.



I would like to know the explanation of such statement. IMHO employee# 
is as internal as userid.

It is NOT SSN or other government number.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Userid schemes

[Andrew Wilkinson]

My favourite (admittedly on a sandbox) was an IMS guy with the right 
initials who snagged DL1.


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Re: Userid schemes

[Jack Zukt]

First position for the company first letter and six digits with the
employee number. For external people, "EX" and five digits for a sequence
number. "Y" for service userids with up to seven letters taken from the
product name (as these do not logon to TSO, eight positions could be used)
Regards
Jack

On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 at 03:53, Paul Gilmartin <
042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 21:56:55 -0400, David Spiegel wrote:
> >
> >When I worked at IBM Canada full time (1994-2002), our TSO Userids were
> >XXn, where n was a person's "man number" (aka employee number).
> >
> No EEOC.
>
> Five digits isn't enough.
>
> --
> gil
>
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Re: Userid schemes

[Wayne Bickerdike]

When I worked at IBM it was first letter of surname plus personnel number
(5 numerics).

Another site used a role based ID such as SNRDBA for Senior DBA.

On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 10:31 AM Bob Bridges  wrote:

> One place I worked used the employee number as proof of identify when the
> help desk proposed to help him with his password.  The employee ID was
> printed on the photo ID we carried around.  As a security jock I never
> thought much of that scheme; no better than SSN, in my opinion.
>
> (The best scheme for that, at least that I've run into so far, is the
> policy of a company I worked for a long time:  Any department that had at
> least 25 people in it was required to have someone there scoped to update
> the passwords for folks in that department.  So no need to prove my
> identity through some hackable means:  I just walked up to Anna's desk and
> say "Anna, please fix my password".  Since Anna knows me (or knows my voice
> over the phone), no issue.  I've been a fan of decentralized (but
> monitored) security ever since.)
>
> ---
> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
> /* It is hard enough, even with the best will in the world, to be just.
> It is hard, under the pressure of haste, uneasiness, ill-temper,
> self-complacency, and conceit, even to continue intending justice.  Power
> corrupts; the "insolence of office" will creep in.  We see it so clearly in
> our superiors; is it unlikely that our inferiors see it in us?  How many of
> those who have been over us did not sometimes (perhaps often) need our
> forgiveness?  Be sure that we likewise need the forgiveness of those that
> are under us.  -C S Lewis, "The Psalms" */
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Matt Hogstrom
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 20:18
>
> A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.  xxn
>
> --
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-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

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Re: Userid schemes

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 21:56:55 -0400, David Spiegel wrote:
>
>When I worked at IBM Canada full time (1994-2002), our TSO Userids were
>XXn, where n was a person's "man number" (aka employee number).
>
No EEOC.

Five digits isn't enough.

-- 
gil

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Re: Userid schemes

[David Spiegel]

Hi Gil,
When I worked at IBM Canada full time (1994-2002), our TSO Userids were 
XXn, where n was a person's "man number" (aka employee number).


Regards,
David

On 2023-07-13 20:32, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:17:38 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:


A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.  xxn


Many years ago someone reported here that in Canada it was illegal to
use an employee# as a UID because it's considered privileged HR information.
I'd guess the same applies to user IDs.



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Re: Userid schemes

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:30:41 -0400, Bob Bridges  wrote:

>  Since Anna knows me (or knows my voice over the phone), no issue. 
>
Consider recent reports of deep fakes.

-- 
gil

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Re: Userid schemes

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:17:38 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

>A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.  xxn
>
Many years ago someone reported here that in Canada it was illegal to
use an employee# as a UID because it's considered privileged HR information.
I'd guess the same applies to user IDs.

-- 
gil

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Re: Userid schemes

[Bob Bridges]

One place I worked used the employee number as proof of identify when the help 
desk proposed to help him with his password.  The employee ID was printed on 
the photo ID we carried around.  As a security jock I never thought much of 
that scheme; no better than SSN, in my opinion.

(The best scheme for that, at least that I've run into so far, is the policy of 
a company I worked for a long time:  Any department that had at least 25 people 
in it was required to have someone there scoped to update the passwords for 
folks in that department.  So no need to prove my identity through some 
hackable means:  I just walked up to Anna's desk and say "Anna, please fix my 
password".  Since Anna knows me (or knows my voice over the phone), no issue.  
I've been a fan of decentralized (but monitored) security ever since.)

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* It is hard enough, even with the best will in the world, to be just.  It is 
hard, under the pressure of haste, uneasiness, ill-temper, self-complacency, 
and conceit, even to continue intending justice.  Power corrupts; the 
"insolence of office" will creep in.  We see it so clearly in our superiors; is 
it unlikely that our inferiors see it in us?  How many of those who have been 
over us did not sometimes (perhaps often) need our forgiveness?  Be sure that 
we likewise need the forgiveness of those that are under us.  -C S Lewis, "The 
Psalms" */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Matt Hogstrom
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 20:18

A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.  xxn

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Re: Userid schemes

[Bernd Oppolzer]

In my customer's company, we had such a scheme for decades:

first letter X for external, S or L for division
next letter S or M or K ... for city (where the department is located)
then two digits department number (38, 91, 95, ...)
then three chars from the name (OPP in my case)

that made XS95OPP for me.

Easy to remember, even for the (some hundred) co-workers who knew me and 
needed to communicate with me
over internal network or (today) via e-Mail. The mainframe user name is 
an e-Mail Alias, of course.


But really bad, if someone moves to another department or city; you 
either get rid of all your RACF rights

or the userid doesn't reflect the real allocations any more.

So now for some years, we have generic userids for the new users, which 
are allocated to RACF groups.


Because I left the company some years ago and returned later, I now have 
a userid, which doesn't tell
anything; a simple 7-letter or digit sequence like CCBUG7E; this will 
stay the same, no matter if I move to
another department. But no one can remember my userid; they always have 
to look it up in a web based
application in the intranet (much more then 10.000 employees in Germany 
alone).


Kind regards

Bernd


Am 14.07.2023 um 00:39 schrieb Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw:

I generally dislike those schemes that make use of departments or projects,
as this means a new id must be assigned when the employee moves department.
However, some may argue this has its own benefit, as it prevents inheritance
of authorities in those situations.

Lennie
Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
https://rsclweb.com
'Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.'



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Re: Userid schemes

[Matt Hogstrom]

A place I worked used initials followed by a 5 digit employee ID.  xxn


Matt Hogstrom

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom



> On Jul 13, 2023, at 8:09 PM, David Spiegel 
> <0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
>> "N" was for Number and "xxx" was a numeric value starting with 1 and 
>> being incremented for the next userid.  Since he was first in the shop, and 
>> he knew RACF, he set himself up as N001, I was the next person hired, 
>> and I got N002.


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Re: Userid schemes

[David Spiegel]

Hi Richard,
I worked at a place where the SysProg-in-chief was an arrogant guy from 
the Former Soviet Union.

His Userid was "A".

Regards,
David

On 2023-07-13 19:49, rpinion865 wrote:

I worked at a place where the VP didn't like using anything related to names, 
due to name changes and the such.  Rather he used Nxxx, where
"N" was for Number and "xxx" was a numeric value starting with 1 and being 
incremented for the next userid.  Since he was first in the shop, and he knew RACF, he set himself 
up as N001, I was the next person hired, and I got N002.




Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

--- Original Message ---
On Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 5:22 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:



I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids, all 
truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't tell ya where 
each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or intials):

1. First initial, last name, plus a number as needed: PSMITH, PSMITH1
2. Last name || first name, with number if necessary, but always including 
first initial: SMITHIIP, or SMITHIP2 if needed
3. First three of last name, first two of first name, plus a number: SMIPH03 
(I've always wondered how they'd deal with Kyle Fuchs or Tyrone Shipman)
4. First initial, last name, truncated to max of six with a two-digit number: I 
was PSMITH87; friend was TSMITH99-we never found out what the next T. Smith 
would get: would they reuse a hole, if any, or go to TSMIT100?


Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no agenda.


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Re: Userid schemes

[rpinion865]

I worked at a place where the VP didn't like using anything related to names, 
due to name changes and the such.  Rather he used Nxxx, where
"N" was for Number and "xxx" was a numeric value starting with 1 and being 
incremented for the next userid.  Since he was first in the shop, and he knew 
RACF, he set himself up as N001, I was the next person hired, and I got 
N002.




Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

--- Original Message ---
On Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 5:22 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:


> I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids, 
> all truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't tell ya 
> where each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or intials):
> 
> 1. First initial, last name, plus a number as needed: PSMITH, PSMITH1
> 2. Last name || first name, with number if necessary, but always including 
> first initial: SMITHIIP, or SMITHIP2 if needed
> 3. First three of last name, first two of first name, plus a number: SMIPH03 
> (I've always wondered how they'd deal with Kyle Fuchs or Tyrone Shipman)
> 4. First initial, last name, truncated to max of six with a two-digit number: 
> I was PSMITH87; friend was TSMITH99-we never found out what the next T. Smith 
> would get: would they reuse a hole, if any, or go to TSMIT100?
> 
> 
> Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no agenda.
> 
> 
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Re: Userid schemes

[Bob Bridges]

On of my current clients uses your scheme #1, with the variation that
contractors and other off-site personnel start with a 'V' for "vendor".  So
"VPSMIT2" instead of "PSMITH2".

For a good many years a manufacturer I worked for used, let's see ... my ID
was TTGGRHB.  RHB are my initials, and I think the first 'T' was for on-line
TSO users; the TGG must have been a department designation.  Job printouts
came back and were laid out on a table for developers to pick up, so we all
got familiar with each other's initials; I learned to my surprise that a
much higher percentage than I would have guessed go by their middle names.

After that they came under Volvo's world-wide naming scheme; IDs, DSNs, job
and step names, everything changed.  User IDs were a letter to indicate the
corporation, then a six-digit number.  No more changing IDs when a user
moved to a new department, or got married or divorced.  I occasionally had
to log on to mainframes in Sweden to do my job, and I'm pretty sure I signed
on to the same ID there as in the US.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind.
-Albert Einstein */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Phil Smith III
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 17:22

I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids,
all truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't tell ya
where each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or intials):

1.  First initial, last name, plus a number as needed: PSMITH, PSMITH1
2.  Last name || first name, with number if necessary, but always
including first initial: SMITHIIP, or SMITHIP2 if needed
3.  First three of last name, first two of first name, plus a number:
SMIPH03 (I've always wondered how they'd deal with Kyle Fuchs or Tyrone
Shipman)
4.  First initial, last name, truncated to max of six with a two-digit
number: I was PSMITH87; friend was TSMITH99-we never found out what the next
T. Smith would get: would they reuse a hole, if any, or go to TSMIT100?

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Re: Userid schemes

[Matt Hogstrom]

On my systems my ID is IMAHOG.   Although, it’s really pronounced like 
Hōkstrum.  Never have trouble in Sweden with people mispronouncing my name :)


Matt Hogstrom
“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom



> On Jul 13, 2023, at 6:41 PM, David Spiegel 
> <0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> When I was studying CompSci at UofT, the best school in Canada (sorry Phil, 
> but, beat it the pants off of UofW in the '70s), one of our TAs (Mr. J. Hogg) 
> insisted that his surname was pronounced "Hoag" (i.e. not "Hog").
> The SysOp on the Graduate School PDP-11 gave him this userid: PIGG
> Good times.
> 
> Regards,
> David


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Re: Userid schemes

[David Spiegel]

Hi Phil,
I worked at a multi--national food company in the early '90s. Their 
Userid scheme was first 5 letters of surname, first letter of first 
name. One guy, Mr. M. Pinchbeck became irate when people kept referring 
to him (PINCHBM) as "Pinch Bum".
I didn't get excited about mine (SPIEGED). One day, however, I was 
approached by a user who said: "Hey Ed,  do you think you can come to my 
desk and help me with TPX?"
Another guy, Mr. C. Cadore corrected people's pronunciation of his 
userid (CADOREC said as Ca-Dork) by telling them it should be said as 
Cadore-C.


When I was studying CompSci at UofT, the best school in Canada (sorry 
Phil, but, beat it the pants off of UofW in the '70s), one of our TAs 
(Mr. J. Hogg) insisted that his surname was pronounced "Hoag" (i.e. not 
"Hog").

The SysOp on the Graduate School PDP-11 gave him this userid: PIGG
Good times.

Regards,
David

On 2023-07-13 17:22, Phil Smith III wrote:

I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids, all 
truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't tell ya where 
each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or intials):

1.  First initial, last name, plus a number as needed: PSMITH, PSMITH1
2.  Last name || first name, with number if necessary, but always including 
first initial: SMITHIIP, or SMITHIP2 if needed
3.  First three of last name, first two of first name, plus a number: 
SMIPH03 (I've always wondered how they'd deal with Kyle Fuchs or Tyrone Shipman)
4.  First initial, last name, truncated to max of six with a two-digit 
number: I was PSMITH87; friend was TSMITH99-we never found out what the next T. 
Smith would get: would they reuse a hole, if any, or go to TSMIT100?


Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no agenda.


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Re: Userid schemes

[Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw]

I generally dislike those schemes that make use of departments or projects,
as this means a new id must be assigned when the employee moves department. 
However, some may argue this has its own benefit, as it prevents inheritance
of authorities in those situations.

Lennie
Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
https://rsclweb.com 
'Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.'

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Phil Smith III
Sent: 13 July 2023 22:22
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Userid schemes

I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids,
all truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't tell ya
where each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or intials):

1.  First initial, last name, plus a number as needed: PSMITH, PSMITH1
2.  Last name || first name, with number if necessary, but always
including first initial: SMITHIIP, or SMITHIP2 if needed
3.  First three of last name, first two of first name, plus a number:
SMIPH03 (I've always wondered how they'd deal with Kyle Fuchs or Tyrone
Shipman)
4.  First initial, last name, truncated to max of six with a two-digit
number: I was PSMITH87; friend was TSMITH99-we never found out what the next
T. Smith would get: would they reuse a hole, if any, or go to TSMIT100?


Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no agenda.


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Re: Userid schemes

[Rupert Reynolds]

So many.

YaaaRR1 (aaa was 3 alpha office/project)
XXnnnRR (XX for office, no idea why 3 digits)
RUPREY01
DEVRR01

Roops


On Thu, 13 Jul 2023, 22:22 Phil Smith III,  wrote:

> I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids,
> all truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't tell ya
> where each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or intials):
>
> 1.  First initial, last name, plus a number as needed: PSMITH, PSMITH1
> 2.  Last name || first name, with number if necessary, but always
> including first initial: SMITHIIP, or SMITHIP2 if needed
> 3.  First three of last name, first two of first name, plus a number:
> SMIPH03 (I've always wondered how they'd deal with Kyle Fuchs or Tyrone
> Shipman)
> 4.  First initial, last name, truncated to max of six with a two-digit
> number: I was PSMITH87; friend was TSMITH99-we never found out what the
> next T. Smith would get: would they reuse a hole, if any, or go to TSMIT100?
>
>
> Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no
> agenda.
>
>
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Re: Userid schemes

[Seymour J Metz]

Ah, yes, nannyware and the evils thereof :-(


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 6:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Userid schemes

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 17:37:16 -0400, Phil Smith III wrote:
>
>So I'd be SMTHPH? Ick. I know, I'd get used to it, but.
>
I had a manager who told a tale of having been one of four Thomas J.
Murrays employed at Kodak.  They learned to adapt by forwarding
each others' emails by topic relevance.

Remember when magazine mailing labels contained a hash of the
addressees' full name?  I had a co-worker who had majored in
English but switched to IT for economic reasons.  His first job
assignment was to write a filter to eliminate taboo combinations.

--
gil

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Re: Userid schemes

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 17:37:16 -0400, Phil Smith III wrote:
>
>So I'd be SMTHPH? Ick. I know, I'd get used to it, but.
> 
I had a manager who told a tale of having been one of four Thomas J.
Murrays employed at Kodak.  They learned to adapt by forwarding
each others' emails by topic relevance.

Remember when magazine mailing labels contained a hash of the
addressees' full name?  I had a co-worker who had majored in
English but switched to IT for economic reasons.  His first job
assignment was to write a filter to eliminate taboo combinations.

-- 
gil

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Re: Userid schemes

[Glenn Knickerbocker]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 17:22:12 -0400, Phil Smith III  wrote:
>I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids, all 
>truncated as needed, of course.
...
>Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no agenda.

Standard at IBM Poughkeepsie when I started here in 1984 was department number 
plus initials, no choice offered to most of us.  I was A17GSK.  Much later I 
inherited what must originally have been a second ID from a coworker and 
eventually become his primary, H37PFH1.

In between, when my organization moved "home" to Fishkill, our clunky POK 
userids went with us to a new Fishkill system.  It was a luxury when I moved 
into VM support to be offered the chance to choose my own ID (just because I 
was new on the system, not as a support privilege).  There were no name 
requirements at all, plenty of people using nicknames, and I briefly considered 
NOTR but decided keeping my initials would make searches easier and went with 
GSKNICK.  We would have run into conflicts with the POK standard in that 
department, because we had two John F. P.'s.

¬R

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Re: Userid schemes

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 17:22:12 -0400, Phil Smith III wrote:

>I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids, all 
>truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't tell ya where 
>each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or intials):
>
It was egregious underreaching when IBM increased the permitted length
of TSO IDs from 7 to 8.  They should have gone to something more
characteristic of extant systems, probably several dozen, using 
USERIDALIASTABLE if needed to perform the mapping.


>Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no agenda.
>
I once worked for an organization that used last name, first initial, middle
initial.  After searching phone directories, I wondered whether Cheng K. Fu
of San Diego, CA would ever apply for employment there.

(They were inflexible.  A co-worker was required to change her user ID
because of marriage.)

-- 
gil

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Re: Userid schemes

[Phil Smith III]

Jay Maynard wrote:
>The one I use was formed by taking the first four non-vowels of the last
>name and then the first and second initials.

So I'd be SMTHPH? Ick. I know, I'd get used to it, but.

 

That SMIPH03 really was my ID at CA after Sterling bought them. I didn't mind, 
the 03 was perfect! Highest number we had was BERMA16, which I assume got run 
up by all the Mark and Marie Bergmanns and Bergdorfs and the like out there on 
Lon Guyland.

 

Ain't no perfect scheme, of course. We have someone here whose name is quite 
uncommon-but there's another one of him in the company, so he's got a 2 in his 
ID (yeah, I guess they go right to 2, so my PSMITH1 example was bogus, or at 
least would be bogus here; of course if they were C programmers, the one after 
PSMITH would be PSMITH0).


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Re: Userid schemes

[Jay Maynard]

The one I use was formed by taking the first four non-vowels of the last
name and then the first and second initials.

And, of course, the usual collection of department code plus sequential
number (T40TS01), or installation code plus sequential number (YHX0382), or
group code plus initials (S0JM)...

On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 4:22 PM Phil Smith III  wrote:

> I've seen various schemes used for creating up-to-eight-character userids,
> all truncated as needed, of course. These are IDs I've had, won't tell ya
> where each was (and omitting just firstname, just lastname, or intials):
>
> 1.  First initial, last name, plus a number as needed: PSMITH, PSMITH1
> 2.  Last name || first name, with number if necessary, but always
> including first initial: SMITHIIP, or SMITHIP2 if needed
> 3.  First three of last name, first two of first name, plus a number:
> SMIPH03 (I've always wondered how they'd deal with Kyle Fuchs or Tyrone
> Shipman)
> 4.  First initial, last name, truncated to max of six with a two-digit
> number: I was PSMITH87; friend was TSMITH99-we never found out what the
> next T. Smith would get: would they reuse a hole, if any, or go to TSMIT100?
>
>
> Anyone got any other variations? This is purely a curiosity item, no
> agenda.
>
>
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-- 
Jay Maynard

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