Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Shmuel wrote: >Your guess is worth what I paid for it. I started on the 3277 back when the competition was the 2260 and am at home with 3270 data streams. >What you wrote was "this will mean a new application *cannot* use existing hardware,", which isn't even close to saying that you need dual paths, and is false. One more time: I've clarified what I meant. You're stuck on that. I'm done here. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Your guess is worth what I paid for it. I started on the 3277 back when the competition was the 2260 and am at home with 3270 data streams. What you wrote was "this will mean a new application *cannot* use existing hardware,", which isn't even close to saying that you need dual paths, and is false. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Phil Smith III [li...@akphs.com] Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2022 2:11 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)) Shmuel wrote: >It's in reference to the fact that after I repeatedly asked why you believed that it would cause problems for existing displays, and after it explained that it wouldn't, you simply repeated the same baseless claim. That's very different from not liking dual paths, which you never even hinted at. I never said it would affect existing displays. I said it would affect existing applications. But I already apologized for not explaining in sufficient detail for you to understand, so move on. >ISPF has plenty of dual paths; optionally supporting a new Start Field Contiguous or a new Protected character attribute wouldn't significantly increase that. I guess you haven't done much 3270 programming or screen design, because I gave examples of why it wouldn't be trivial to get value out of it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Shmuel wrote: >It's in reference to the fact that after I repeatedly asked why you believed that it would cause problems for existing displays, and after it explained that it wouldn't, you simply repeated the same baseless claim. That's very different from not liking dual paths, which you never even hinted at. I never said it would affect existing displays. I said it would affect existing applications. But I already apologized for not explaining in sufficient detail for you to understand, so move on. >ISPF has plenty of dual paths; optionally supporting a new Start Field Contiguous or a new Protected character attribute wouldn't significantly increase that. I guess you haven't done much 3270 programming or screen design, because I gave examples of why it wouldn't be trivial to get value out of it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
It's in reference to the fact that after I repeatedly asked why you believed that it would cause problems for existing displays, and after it explained that it wouldn't, you simply repeated the same baseless claim. That's very different from not liking dual paths, which you never even hinted at. ISPF has plenty of dual paths; optionally supporting a new Start Field Contiguous or a new Protected character attribute wouldn't significantly increase that. And, yes, it would also be useful for hardware tabs. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Phil Smith III [li...@akphs.com] Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2022 11:29 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)) Shmuel wrote: >Whoosh! I'm going to assume that's in reference to your sending a blank reply rather than an appalling lack of comity. >The whole point of Read Partition Query is so that software can detect what features are supported. Had IBM implemented a Start Fiewld Contifuous buffer order or a Protected character attribute, why would you expect SPF to use it in a data stream targeted to a 3277? All of the new device support requires the Extended Data Stream that came in with the 3274, and RP-Q was part of that from Day One. Yeah, no kidding about RP-Q. You're still missing my point, presumably because I didn't spell it out in sufficient detail: if all this really lets me do is add a character to a field, then it's of very limited value, AND any application exploiting it has to dual-path the code and largely rethink its data layout on the screen. Not a lot of bang for the buck. Things like XEDIT would benefit the most, but even then I'm not convinced you'd get more than one byte back per line. Would you really butt the PREFIX area right up against the data: 0* * * Top of File * * * 1this is data 2* * * End of File * * * or =* * * Top of File * * * |...+1+2... =this is data =* * * End of File * * * or 0* * * Top of File * * * |...+1+2 1this is data 2* * * End of File * * * ? That'sgoingtobeprettyhardtoread, especially if the data is numeric and you use NUMBER ON: 0* * * Top of File * * * |...+1+2... 112345678 2* * * End of File * * * While we can all come up with times when we'd like this ability, it's a pretty narrow use case overall, I think. You generally-not always, of course, but generally-need some visual way to tell the end of one field and the start of the next. "But colors"-maybe. Again, narrow use case, and that would reduce the utility of colors for other uses. The place where I'd most want it is to do structured input kinds of things, where you could use the TAB key more efficiently. I had an XEDIT macro called ASMIN that I worked on for a while, that used SET RESERVED to make hardware-tabbable input fields at columns 1, 10, 16, 40. This turned out to be more of a pain than a benefit because of the attribute bytes getting in the way (when you had a macro invocation, for example, that needed more than five bytes starting at column 10. (Yes, I tinkered with making it 'smart' such that "if column 15 is not blank, then concatenate rather than putting a space between 15 and 16", but it just wasn't of enough value to be worthwhile: it irritated me more than helped.) I'm not saying it would be useless, I'm saying that I would imagine that 40++ years ago, it was discussed, and IBM correctly decided the value wasn't there for the effort. I've had an abiding love affair with 3270s for about 43 years now, have done lots of 3270 datastream programming (including some major surgery on XMENU back in the day). There are lots of things I wish had been different, but this isn't one of them! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Shmuel wrote: >Whoosh! I'm going to assume that's in reference to your sending a blank reply rather than an appalling lack of comity. >The whole point of Read Partition Query is so that software can detect what features are supported. Had IBM implemented a Start Fiewld Contifuous buffer order or a Protected character attribute, why would you expect SPF to use it in a data stream targeted to a 3277? All of the new device support requires the Extended Data Stream that came in with the 3274, and RP-Q was part of that from Day One. Yeah, no kidding about RP-Q. You're still missing my point, presumably because I didn't spell it out in sufficient detail: if all this really lets me do is add a character to a field, then it's of very limited value, AND any application exploiting it has to dual-path the code and largely rethink its data layout on the screen. Not a lot of bang for the buck. Things like XEDIT would benefit the most, but even then I'm not convinced you'd get more than one byte back per line. Would you really butt the PREFIX area right up against the data: 0* * * Top of File * * * 1this is data 2* * * End of File * * * or =* * * Top of File * * * |...+1+2... =this is data =* * * End of File * * * or 0* * * Top of File * * * |...+1+2 1this is data 2* * * End of File * * * ? That'sgoingtobeprettyhardtoread, especially if the data is numeric and you use NUMBER ON: 0* * * Top of File * * * |...+1+2... 112345678 2* * * End of File * * * While we can all come up with times when we'd like this ability, it's a pretty narrow use case overall, I think. You generally-not always, of course, but generally-need some visual way to tell the end of one field and the start of the next. "But colors"-maybe. Again, narrow use case, and that would reduce the utility of colors for other uses. The place where I'd most want it is to do structured input kinds of things, where you could use the TAB key more efficiently. I had an XEDIT macro called ASMIN that I worked on for a while, that used SET RESERVED to make hardware-tabbable input fields at columns 1, 10, 16, 40. This turned out to be more of a pain than a benefit because of the attribute bytes getting in the way (when you had a macro invocation, for example, that needed more than five bytes starting at column 10. (Yes, I tinkered with making it 'smart' such that "if column 15 is not blank, then concatenate rather than putting a space between 15 and 16", but it just wasn't of enough value to be worthwhile: it irritated me more than helped.) I'm not saying it would be useless, I'm saying that I would imagine that 40++ years ago, it was discussed, and IBM correctly decided the value wasn't there for the effort. I've had an abiding love affair with 3270s for about 43 years now, have done lots of 3270 datastream programming (including some major surgery on XMENU back in the day). There are lots of things I wish had been different, but this isn't one of them! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Whoosh! The whole point of Read Partition Query is so that software can detect what features are supported. Had IBM implemented a Start Fiewld Contifuous buffer order or a Protected character attribute, why would you expect SPF to use it in a data stream targeted to a 3277? All of the new device support requires the Extended Data Stream that came in with the 3274, and RP-Q was part of that from Day One. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Phil Smith III [li...@akphs.com] Sent: Friday, February 25, 2022 6:55 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)) Shmuel wrote: >Huh? Where does "the image won't fit on a 24x80 screen" come from? >Supporting new device capabilities does not mean that old devices are unsupported. ISPF supports, e.g., colors, but it works on a 3277 as well as it ever did. Had IBM done as I suggest, there would not have been a requirement for a new geometry and ISPF would still work on an old device. If I can put data in all 1920 characters, then that image won't fit on an older screen where the attribute bytes take up space. (Nor will stuff line up correctly, probably.) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
-- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Phil Smith III [li...@akphs.com] Sent: Friday, February 25, 2022 6:55 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)) Shmuel wrote: >Huh? Where does "the image won't fit on a 24x80 screen" come from? >Supporting new device capabilities does not mean that old devices are unsupported. ISPF supports, e.g., colors, but it works on a 3277 as well as it ever did. Had IBM done as I suggest, there would not have been a requirement for a new geometry and ISPF would still work on an old device. If I can put data in all 1920 characters, then that image won't fit on an older screen where the attribute bytes take up space. (Nor will stuff line up correctly, probably.) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
The attribute byte does not really take up a space on the screen. Within the datasteam, you can put stuff on the screen 'out of order' and thus put something else on the screen that overwrites the spot you thought you put the attribute byte into. So, if build the datasteam from end to start, you can do some nifty things. No, you can't do it with BMS. Many years ago, another programmer showed me the technique he used in assembler programs. A few years later, I wrote a set of Cobol routines to build screens without using BMS. And using his method, I was able to even change the color within what appeared to be a single field. One issue is that the rules are different in what you can do for input vs output fields. It's been 25+ years since I did this, so many of the details have been misplaced within my gray matter. :-) Tony Thigpen Phil Smith III wrote on 2/25/22 18:55: Shmuel wrote: Huh? Where does "the image won't fit on a 24x80 screen" come from? Supporting new device capabilities does not mean that old devices are unsupported. ISPF supports, e.g., colors, but it works on a 3277 as well as it ever did. Had IBM done as I suggest, there would not have been a requirement for a new geometry and ISPF would still work on an old device. If I can put data in all 1920 characters, then that image won't fit on an older screen where the attribute bytes take up space. (Nor will stuff line up correctly, probably.) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Shmuel wrote: >Huh? Where does "the image won't fit on a 24x80 screen" come from? >Supporting new device capabilities does not mean that old devices are unsupported. ISPF supports, e.g., colors, but it works on a 3277 as well as it ever did. Had IBM done as I suggest, there would not have been a requirement for a new geometry and ISPF would still work on an old device. If I can put data in all 1920 characters, then that image won't fit on an older screen where the attribute bytes take up space. (Nor will stuff line up correctly, probably.) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Huh? Where does "the image won't fit on a 24x80 screen" come from? Supporting new device capabilities does not mean that old devices are unsupported. ISPF supports, e.g., colors, but it works on a 3277 as well as it ever did. Had IBM done as I suggest, there would not have been a requirement for a new geometry and ISPF would still work on an old device. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Phil Smith III [li...@akphs.com] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 4:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)) Shmuel wrote: >Memory was less expensive when the 3278 and 3279 came out, and optionally inserting character attributes would not have been a major redesign. The addition of extended attributes (SA orders) would have been the plausible time. In fact, those are so close to this that it MUST have been considered; I can imagine a discussion something like: "This isn't a 'color or no color' thing: this is screen geometry. We have 24x80 fallback for larger screens, but that's going *smaller*: this will mean a new application *cannot* use existing hardware, because the image won't fit on a 24x80 screen. That would be Bad." We'll never know. I did have a boss for a year or two who once told us that while at IBM he'd been responsible for VTAM V1. I would have kept that secret to my grave, if I were him. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Shmuel wrote: >Memory was less expensive when the 3278 and 3279 came out, and optionally inserting character attributes would not have been a major redesign. The addition of extended attributes (SA orders) would have been the plausible time. In fact, those are so close to this that it MUST have been considered; I can imagine a discussion something like: "This isn't a 'color or no color' thing: this is screen geometry. We have 24x80 fallback for larger screens, but that's going *smaller*: this will mean a new application *cannot* use existing hardware, because the image won't fit on a 24x80 screen. That would be Bad." We'll never know. I did have a boss for a year or two who once told us that while at IBM he'd been responsible for VTAM V1. I would have kept that secret to my grave, if I were him. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Memory was less expensive when the 3278 and 3279 came out, and optionally inserting character attributes would not have been a major redesign. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 2:32 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)) On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 18:47:14 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >It was a fundamental design flaw on the 3277; IBM could have easilly fixed it >with the introduction of EDS. Why isn't there a protected character attribute? > Storage was expensive. The designers budgeted for 1920 bytes. Subsequently, compatibility. Il cimento dell'armonia e dell'inventione. But it's overdue for the ISPF and XEDIT designers to do what ISPF promised never to do: introduce support for curses/terminfo-based terminals. Most desktops have those nowadays. How does KEDIT treat column 72? > >From: Phil Smith III >Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 1:39 PM > >Well, it's not a separate field: this is 3270, so there would be an >attribute byte on the screen between column 71 and 72 if it were R/O (a >fundamental design flaw in the 3270 protocol IMHO, but 45+ years too late to >fix). TRUNC lets you SEE stuff without being able to change it, which can be >A Good Thing. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
I think we would all agree that the defaults for XEDIT are "not the way I would have done it." But, we should also agree that changing just about anything with XEDIT is possible, and in most cases easy using the tools provided with XEDIT. So, let's not hang our thoughts about XEDIT based on one such setting, especially, col 72 when editing assembler. Tony Thigpen Phil Smith III wrote on 2/24/22 14:44: Paul Gilmartin wrote: But it's overdue for the ISPF and XEDIT designers to do what ISPF promised never to do: introduce support for curses/terminfo-based terminals. Most desktops have those nowadays. Not sure how that would work, since it's a 3270 data stream. Would mean a HUGE rewrite, and for what (at this point)? That ship has sailed, alas. How does KEDIT treat column 72? A fair question; I think the answer is that it's not comparable, since KEDIT doesn't have the same physical screen limitations (including attribute bytes), nor does it have the concept of "filetype" per se. It does say: The truncation column, controlled by SET TRUNC, is normally set equal to the WIDTH setting. So maybe that's the answer you want? IOW, unless you set it, TRUNC effectively doesn't get set. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Paul Gilmartin wrote: >But it's overdue for the ISPF and XEDIT designers to do what ISPF promised >never to do: introduce support for curses/terminfo-based terminals. Most >desktops have those nowadays. Not sure how that would work, since it's a 3270 data stream. Would mean a HUGE rewrite, and for what (at this point)? That ship has sailed, alas. >How does KEDIT treat column 72? A fair question; I think the answer is that it's not comparable, since KEDIT doesn't have the same physical screen limitations (including attribute bytes), nor does it have the concept of "filetype" per se. It does say: The truncation column, controlled by SET TRUNC, is normally set equal to the WIDTH setting. So maybe that's the answer you want? IOW, unless you set it, TRUNC effectively doesn't get set. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 18:47:14 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >It was a fundamental design flaw on the 3277; IBM could have easilly fixed it >with the introduction of EDS. Why isn't there a protected character attribute? > Storage was expensive. The designers budgeted for 1920 bytes. Subsequently, compatibility. Il cimento dell'armonia e dell'inventione. But it's overdue for the ISPF and XEDIT designers to do what ISPF promised never to do: introduce support for curses/terminfo-based terminals. Most desktops have those nowadays. How does KEDIT treat column 72? > >From: Phil Smith III >Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 1:39 PM > >Well, it's not a separate field: this is 3270, so there would be an >attribute byte on the screen between column 71 and 72 if it were R/O (a >fundamental design flaw in the 3270 protocol IMHO, but 45+ years too late to >fix). TRUNC lets you SEE stuff without being able to change it, which can be >A Good Thing. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
It was a fundamental design flaw on the 3277; IBM could have easilly fixed it with the introduction of EDS. Why isn't there a protected character attribute? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Phil Smith III [li...@akphs.com] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 1:39 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)) Paul Gilmartin wrote: >Bad definition. XEDIT shouldn't entice users to enter data that >t won't "take". The field should have the read-only attribute. >Is there any rationale for making it writable? Well, it's not a separate field: this is 3270, so there would be an attribute byte on the screen between column 71 and 72 if it were R/O (a fundamental design flaw in the 3270 protocol IMHO, but 45+ years too late to fix). TRUNC lets you SEE stuff without being able to change it, which can be A Good Thing. As I said, I changed it for me 40 years ago, so I'd certainly agree that it's bogus. There was actually a small rework of those defaults in XEDIT at one point, but this one didn't make it, apparently. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Paul Gilmartin wrote: >Bad definition. XEDIT shouldn't entice users to enter data that >t won't "take". The field should have the read-only attribute. >Is there any rationale for making it writable? Well, it's not a separate field: this is 3270, so there would be an attribute byte on the screen between column 71 and 72 if it were R/O (a fundamental design flaw in the 3270 protocol IMHO, but 45+ years too late to fix). TRUNC lets you SEE stuff without being able to change it, which can be A Good Thing. As I said, I changed it for me 40 years ago, so I'd certainly agree that it's bogus. There was actually a small rework of those defaults in XEDIT at one point, but this one didn't make it, apparently. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Shmuel wrote: >I would argue that multiple edits that are part of a single enhancement belong in a single checkin. For context, this is based on using a home grown IDE that timestamped changed lines, solicited and formatted change descriptions, and generally did the grunt work to have a good audit trail. Oh, absolutely. I meant that without the AUX file forcing you to enter a description, I see people making multiple enhancements in a single checkin with SVN, git, et al. Of course you're supposed to enter a description at checkin, but that's after the fact. "Naming" it before you start seems to remind folks "You're fixing x" and when that's done, they add a new line for y and then one for z. Or maybe this is just me imagining rigor where there really isn't any. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:16:18 -0500, Phil Smith III wrote: > >>I resorted to using basic XEDIT and generating my updates > >>with SuperC UPDCMS8. > (Why is quoted material appearing double-spaced? Is this a perversion of a markdown filter?) >As others have pointed out, this is easily remedied by editing the update > Ugh! >deck. And good hygiene means at least viewing the update deck to be sure you >understand all the changes anyway. > Prudence might dictate applying the update to the original and comparing. I've contended with undisciplined co- workers using desktop editors (Notepad?) which didn't number lines and left lines unterminated. I reported the assembly errors to them and let them deal with it. Often the unterminated MEND had swallowed the next MCS command when I concatenated the PTF. On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 09:38:11 -0500, Tony Thigpen wrote: > >There is no 73-80 dependency in XEDIT/UPDATE either. Just the last 8 >characters, so it could be 1001-1008 if you need 1000 characters for >your code. > Even if the lines have varying lengths? The last 8 characters of each individual line? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
BTDT,GTTS I would argue that multiple edits that are part of a single enhancement belong in a single checkin. For context, this is based on using a home grown IDE that timestamped changed lines, solicited and formatted change descriptions, and generally did the grunt work to have a good audit trail. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Phil Smith III [li...@akphs.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:16 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)) Paul Gilmartin wrote: >I had a disappointment with XEDIT Update mode: If I touch >a line; have second thoughts and restore it, even by an >immediate ERASE EOF, it puts the line needlessly in the >Update file. Working in a cooperative development project, >I resorted to using basic XEDIT and generating my updates >with SuperC UPDCMS8. As others have pointed out, this is easily remedied by editing the update deck. And good hygiene means at least viewing the update deck to be sure you understand all the changes anyway. Having worked with CMS UPDATE for 30 years and now without it for 15, I much prefer CMS UPDATE. That could just be because it's ingrained in me from having seen it first, but I find diff and checkins MUCH harder to use when trying to understand "What changed with this fix?". Plus it seems like folks have a greater tendency to lump multiple changes in a single checkin. That's hygiene/habit, but I'd argue (perhaps not convincingly) that the AUX/CNTRL structure makes this more obviously A Bad Thing To Do. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
Paul Gilmartin wrote: >I had a disappointment with XEDIT Update mode: If I touch >a line; have second thoughts and restore it, even by an >immediate ERASE EOF, it puts the line needlessly in the >Update file. Working in a cooperative development project, >I resorted to using basic XEDIT and generating my updates >with SuperC UPDCMS8. As others have pointed out, this is easily remedied by editing the update deck. And good hygiene means at least viewing the update deck to be sure you understand all the changes anyway. Having worked with CMS UPDATE for 30 years and now without it for 15, I much prefer CMS UPDATE. That could just be because it's ingrained in me from having seen it first, but I find diff and checkins MUCH harder to use when trying to understand "What changed with this fix?". Plus it seems like folks have a greater tendency to lump multiple changes in a single checkin. That's hygiene/habit, but I'd argue (perhaps not convincingly) that the AUX/CNTRL structure makes this more obviously A Bad Thing To Do. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 09:32:57 -0500, Tony Thigpen wrote: >If it's a single line change, I just edit the resulting ptf member and >remove the extra modification. If it's in a group of lines being >changed, it's most likely going to be in the ptf anyway. > SuperC is less error-prone than I am. And when there is one unchanged line within a block of changed lines, one must make a value judgment between: o Shortest update command file o Fewest lines apparently changed. >Paul Gilmartin wrote on 2/23/22 09:01: :> >> I had a disappointment with XEDIT Update mode: If I touch >> a line; have second thoughts and restore it, even by an >> immediate ERASE EOF, it puts the line needlessly in the >> Update file. Working in a cooperative development project, >> I resorted to using basic XEDIT and generating my updates >> with SuperC UPDCMS8. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
There is no 73-80 dependency in XEDIT/UPDATE either. Just the last 8 characters, so it could be 1001-1008 if you need 1000 characters for your code. Tony Thigpen Seymour J Metz wrote on 2/23/22 09:21: diff/patch is more flexible; no 73-80 dependency. In simple cases I can see that, but what happens when blocks of code repeat? Sometimes you need both a screwdriver and a hammer. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 9:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)) On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:11:20 -0500 Tony Thigpen wrote: :>I use a system that generates the AUX files dynamically for each "xedit :>with update function". There is only one CTRL file, ... :> I had a disappointment with XEDIT Update mode: If I touch a line; have second thoughts and restore it, even by an immediate ERASE EOF, it puts the line needlessly in the Update file. Working in a cooperative development project, I resorted to using basic XEDIT and generating my updates with SuperC UPDCMS8. I went to SR with the ERASE EOF misbehavior; got WAD. OTOH, UPDMVS8 requires valid line numbers on both comparands; UPDCMS8 only on OLD. So I have generated IEBUPDTE input using UPDCMS8 plus a Rexx filter. diff/patch is more flexible; no 73-80 dependency. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 14:21:05 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> diff/patch is more flexible; no 73-80 dependency. > >In simple cases I can see that, but what happens when blocks of code repeat? >Sometimes you need both a screwdriver and a hammer. > Or when a sizeable block of code is moved. I know of no downdate tool that handles that elegantly, such as by generating Edit commands. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
If it's a single line change, I just edit the resulting ptf member and remove the extra modification. If it's in a group of lines being changed, it's most likely going to be in the ptf anyway. Tony Thigpen Paul Gilmartin wrote on 2/23/22 09:01: On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:11:20 -0500 Tony Thigpen wrote: :>I use a system that generates the AUX files dynamically for each "xedit :>with update function". There is only one CTRL file, ... :> I had a disappointment with XEDIT Update mode: If I touch a line; have second thoughts and restore it, even by an immediate ERASE EOF, it puts the line needlessly in the Update file. Working in a cooperative development project, I resorted to using basic XEDIT and generating my updates with SuperC UPDCMS8. I went to SR with the ERASE EOF misbehavior; got WAD. OTOH, UPDMVS8 requires valid line numbers on both comparands; UPDCMS8 only on OLD. So I have generated IEBUPDTE input using UPDCMS8 plus a Rexx filter. diff/patch is more flexible; no 73-80 dependency. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
> You should continue the conversation over on the VM list.
I could see cross posting, but z/VM is as on topic here as z/OS. Why not
continue here?
> I use a system that generates the AUX files
For those not familiar with VM, the combination of XEDIT and UPDATE is a nice
start for a development environment in which multiple people can update the
same source file with little interference unless they need to hit the same
lines. BTDT,GTTS (no scars, just the T shirt.)
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 7:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
You should continue the conversation over on the VM list.
I use a system that generates the AUX files dynamically for each "xedit
with update function". There is only one CTRL file, which has:
TEXT MACS
FIXES AUXLIST
My personal source control system uses SFS with program level locks
which require check-out and check-in. I wrote it back somewhere around
1990 and have used it in several shops since then.
Tony Thigpen
Binyamin Dissen wrote on 2/23/22 03:21:
> Thanks to all.
>
> SIDCODE does the job.
>
> Now I have to remember how to make AUX files. I can make CNTRL files, but
> multi-source fixes would eventually drive me to a separate CNTRL per source.
>
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 18:49:22 -0500 Phil Smith III wrote:
>
> :>I think I misread the requirement. Try this version, which also handles
> :>block commands.
> :>
> :>
> :>
> :>/*
> :> PREFIXO
> :> K -- Kopy prefix subcommand
> :> O -- Overlay prefix subcommand
> :> OO -- Overlay block prefix subcommand
> :>
> :> Designed to be used with:
> :>
> :> COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM K PREFIXO
> :> COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM O PREFIXO
> :> COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM OO PREFIXO
> :>*/
> :> arg p f l rest
> :> if f = 'CLEAR' | p <> 'PREFIX' then exit /* Nothing to do, great */
> :> parse source . . . . . pcmd .
> :> if rest <> '' then signal Error /* Operand, we don't do those */
> :> if index('KOO', pcmd) = 0 then signal Error /* Not ours?? error */
> :> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'l /* Go to the line we're handling */
> :> if pcmd = 'K' then signal JustWait /* Kopying, go Wait for O */
> :> 'EXTRACT /PENDING K'/* Is there a pending K?? */
> :> if pending.0 = 0 then signal JustWait/* No, just wait */
> :> kline = pending.1/* Remember where Kopied line is */
> :> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'pending.1 'COMMAND EXTRACT /CURLINE' /* Go */
> :> kopy = curline.3 /* Get the Kopied data */
> :> 'COMMAND EXTRACT /PENDING BLOCK OO :0' l /* See if OO pending */
> :> select
> :> when pcmd = 'O' then do
> :> call Overlay l l /* Simple O, do that */
> :> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'kline 'SET PENDING OFF'/* And clear K */
> :> end
> :> when pending.0 = 0 then/* OO and not pending?? */
> :> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'l 'COMMAND SET PENDING BLOCK OO' /* Wait */
> :> otherwise /* OO and already a pending K and OO, process it */
> :> call Overlay pending.1 l /* Go do the overlays */
> :> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'pending.1 'SET PENDING OFF' /* Clear OO */
> :> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'kline 'SET PENDING OFF' /* And clear K */
> :> end
> :> exit
> :>
> :>/* Do overlays: Build replacement lines, overlaying only blanks */
> :>Overlay:
> :> arg s e/* Start and end lines */
> :> do n = s to e/* Spin through them */
> :> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'n 'COMMAND EXTRACT /CURLINE' /* Get data */
> :> r = '' /* No replacement yet */
> :> do i = 1 to length(kopy) /* Only care about overlay length */
> :> c = substr(curline.3, i, 1) /* Get character from line */
> :> if c = '' then r = r || substr(kopy, i, 1) /* Overlay blank */
> :> else r = r || c /* Don't overlay if not blank */
> :> end
> :> if r <> '' then 'COMMAND REPLACE' r /* Replace if not null */
> :> end
> :> return
> :>
> :>JustWait: /* Reset pending command, either K or OO */
> :> 'COMMAND SET PENDING ON' pcmd
> :> exi
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
> diff/patch is more flexible; no 73-80 dependency. In simple cases I can see that, but what happens when blocks of code repeat? Sometimes you need both a screwdriver and a hammer. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 9:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)) On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:11:20 -0500 Tony Thigpen wrote: >> >> :>I use a system that generates the AUX files dynamically for each "xedit >> :>with update function". There is only one CTRL file, ... >> :> I had a disappointment with XEDIT Update mode: If I touch a line; have second thoughts and restore it, even by an immediate ERASE EOF, it puts the line needlessly in the Update file. Working in a cooperative development project, I resorted to using basic XEDIT and generating my updates with SuperC UPDCMS8. I went to SR with the ERASE EOF misbehavior; got WAD. OTOH, UPDMVS8 requires valid line numbers on both comparands; UPDCMS8 only on OLD. So I have generated IEBUPDTE input using UPDCMS8 plus a Rexx filter. diff/patch is more flexible; no 73-80 dependency. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:11:20 -0500 Tony Thigpen wrote: >> >> :>I use a system that generates the AUX files dynamically for each "xedit >> :>with update function". There is only one CTRL file, ... >> :> I had a disappointment with XEDIT Update mode: If I touch a line; have second thoughts and restore it, even by an immediate ERASE EOF, it puts the line needlessly in the Update file. Working in a cooperative development project, I resorted to using basic XEDIT and generating my updates with SuperC UPDCMS8. I went to SR with the ERASE EOF misbehavior; got WAD. OTOH, UPDMVS8 requires valid line numbers on both comparands; UPDCMS8 only on OLD. So I have generated IEBUPDTE input using UPDCMS8 plus a Rexx filter. diff/patch is more flexible; no 73-80 dependency. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
All that is in my AUXLIST is: ASS1 ASS2 This for an assembler program with 2 updates. Tony Thigpen Binyamin Dissen wrote on 2/23/22 07:52: On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:11:20 -0500 Tony Thigpen wrote: :>You should continue the conversation over on the VM list. :>I use a system that generates the AUX files dynamically for each "xedit :>with update function". There is only one CTRL file, which has: :>TEXT MACS :>FIXES AUXLIST :>My personal source control system uses SFS with program level locks :>which require check-out and check-in. I wrote it back somewhere around :>1990 and have used it in several shops since then. Played a bit and it appears that I need to create source AUXLIST which contains PTF updatename Did I guess right? -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
AUXLIST (was XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay))
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:11:20 -0500 Tony Thigpen wrote: :>You should continue the conversation over on the VM list. :>I use a system that generates the AUX files dynamically for each "xedit :>with update function". There is only one CTRL file, which has: :>TEXT MACS :>FIXES AUXLIST :>My personal source control system uses SFS with program level locks :>which require check-out and check-in. I wrote it back somewhere around :>1990 and have used it in several shops since then. Played a bit and it appears that I need to create source AUXLIST which contains PTF updatename Did I guess right? -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
You should continue the conversation over on the VM list.
I use a system that generates the AUX files dynamically for each "xedit
with update function". There is only one CTRL file, which has:
TEXT MACS
FIXES AUXLIST
My personal source control system uses SFS with program level locks
which require check-out and check-in. I wrote it back somewhere around
1990 and have used it in several shops since then.
Tony Thigpen
Binyamin Dissen wrote on 2/23/22 03:21:
Thanks to all.
SIDCODE does the job.
Now I have to remember how to make AUX files. I can make CNTRL files, but
multi-source fixes would eventually drive me to a separate CNTRL per source.
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 18:49:22 -0500 Phil Smith III wrote:
:>I think I misread the requirement. Try this version, which also handles
:>block commands.
:>
:>
:>
:>/*
:> PREFIXO
:> K -- Kopy prefix subcommand
:> O -- Overlay prefix subcommand
:> OO -- Overlay block prefix subcommand
:>
:> Designed to be used with:
:>
:> COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM K PREFIXO
:> COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM O PREFIXO
:> COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM OO PREFIXO
:>*/
:> arg p f l rest
:> if f = 'CLEAR' | p <> 'PREFIX' then exit /* Nothing to do, great */
:> parse source . . . . . pcmd .
:> if rest <> '' then signal Error /* Operand, we don't do those */
:> if index('KOO', pcmd) = 0 then signal Error /* Not ours?? error */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'l /* Go to the line we're handling */
:> if pcmd = 'K' then signal JustWait /* Kopying, go Wait for O */
:> 'EXTRACT /PENDING K'/* Is there a pending K?? */
:> if pending.0 = 0 then signal JustWait/* No, just wait */
:> kline = pending.1/* Remember where Kopied line is */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'pending.1 'COMMAND EXTRACT /CURLINE' /* Go */
:> kopy = curline.3 /* Get the Kopied data */
:> 'COMMAND EXTRACT /PENDING BLOCK OO :0' l /* See if OO pending */
:> select
:> when pcmd = 'O' then do
:> call Overlay l l /* Simple O, do that */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'kline 'SET PENDING OFF'/* And clear K */
:> end
:> when pending.0 = 0 then/* OO and not pending?? */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'l 'COMMAND SET PENDING BLOCK OO' /* Wait */
:> otherwise /* OO and already a pending K and OO, process it */
:> call Overlay pending.1 l /* Go do the overlays */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'pending.1 'SET PENDING OFF' /* Clear OO */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'kline 'SET PENDING OFF' /* And clear K */
:> end
:> exit
:>
:>/* Do overlays: Build replacement lines, overlaying only blanks */
:>Overlay:
:> arg s e/* Start and end lines */
:> do n = s to e/* Spin through them */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'n 'COMMAND EXTRACT /CURLINE' /* Get data */
:> r = '' /* No replacement yet */
:> do i = 1 to length(kopy) /* Only care about overlay length */
:> c = substr(curline.3, i, 1) /* Get character from line */
:> if c = '' then r = r || substr(kopy, i, 1) /* Overlay blank */
:> else r = r || c /* Don't overlay if not blank */
:> end
:> if r <> '' then 'COMMAND REPLACE' r /* Replace if not null */
:> end
:> return
:>
:>JustWait: /* Reset pending command, either K or OO */
:> 'COMMAND SET PENDING ON' pcmd
:> exit
:>
:>Error: /* Invalid, show prefix error */
:> 'COMMAND SET PENDING ERROR' pcmd rest
:> exit
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>--
:>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
:>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com
Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
Thanks to all.
SIDCODE does the job.
Now I have to remember how to make AUX files. I can make CNTRL files, but
multi-source fixes would eventually drive me to a separate CNTRL per source.
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 18:49:22 -0500 Phil Smith III wrote:
:>I think I misread the requirement. Try this version, which also handles
:>block commands.
:>
:>
:>
:>/*
:> PREFIXO
:> K -- Kopy prefix subcommand
:> O -- Overlay prefix subcommand
:> OO -- Overlay block prefix subcommand
:>
:> Designed to be used with:
:>
:> COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM K PREFIXO
:> COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM O PREFIXO
:> COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM OO PREFIXO
:>*/
:> arg p f l rest
:> if f = 'CLEAR' | p <> 'PREFIX' then exit /* Nothing to do, great */
:> parse source . . . . . pcmd .
:> if rest <> '' then signal Error /* Operand, we don't do those */
:> if index('KOO', pcmd) = 0 then signal Error /* Not ours?? error */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'l /* Go to the line we're handling */
:> if pcmd = 'K' then signal JustWait /* Kopying, go Wait for O */
:> 'EXTRACT /PENDING K'/* Is there a pending K?? */
:> if pending.0 = 0 then signal JustWait/* No, just wait */
:> kline = pending.1/* Remember where Kopied line is */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'pending.1 'COMMAND EXTRACT /CURLINE' /* Go */
:> kopy = curline.3 /* Get the Kopied data */
:> 'COMMAND EXTRACT /PENDING BLOCK OO :0' l /* See if OO pending */
:> select
:> when pcmd = 'O' then do
:> call Overlay l l /* Simple O, do that */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'kline 'SET PENDING OFF'/* And clear K */
:> end
:> when pending.0 = 0 then/* OO and not pending?? */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'l 'COMMAND SET PENDING BLOCK OO' /* Wait */
:> otherwise /* OO and already a pending K and OO, process it */
:> call Overlay pending.1 l /* Go do the overlays */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'pending.1 'SET PENDING OFF' /* Clear OO */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'kline 'SET PENDING OFF' /* And clear K */
:> end
:> exit
:>
:>/* Do overlays: Build replacement lines, overlaying only blanks */
:>Overlay:
:> arg s e/* Start and end lines */
:> do n = s to e/* Spin through them */
:> 'COMMAND LOCATE :'n 'COMMAND EXTRACT /CURLINE' /* Get data */
:> r = '' /* No replacement yet */
:> do i = 1 to length(kopy) /* Only care about overlay length */
:> c = substr(curline.3, i, 1) /* Get character from line */
:> if c = '' then r = r || substr(kopy, i, 1) /* Overlay blank */
:> else r = r || c /* Don't overlay if not blank */
:> end
:> if r <> '' then 'COMMAND REPLACE' r /* Replace if not null */
:> end
:> return
:>
:>JustWait: /* Reset pending command, either K or OO */
:> 'COMMAND SET PENDING ON' pcmd
:> exit
:>
:>Error: /* Invalid, show prefix error */
:> 'COMMAND SET PENDING ERROR' pcmd rest
:> exit
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>--
:>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
:>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com
Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
A combination of C and O or CC and OO with equal size blocks may be easy on a TN3270 client with support for block C, but is there a TN3270 client that will replicate the source if it is smaller than the target? I quite commonly mark a single lline with C and multiple lines with oo, or mark a short block with cc and a long block with oo. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Harminc [t...@harminc.net] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 4:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay) On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 at 15:32, Phil Smith III wrote: > Binyamin Dissen wrote: > > >I am referring to the function where you type C on a line that has the > overlay > >data and then OO/OO on the group of lines that you wish to overlay. The > only > >dependence on the data on the OO lines is that it will not replace a > >non-blank. > > I've used XEDIT since it was released, KEDIT equally, and neither has this > direct analog. I have also never actually *WANTED* it, which is not to > dismiss your requirement-just to note that it may not be that common. > I use it all the time to put change markers on new lines. Of course with a decent TN3270 program you can probably just as easily copy & paste them in at that level. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
Try the attached macro. It does not require the character loop that the one provided by Phil does. Tony Thigpen Tony Thigpen wrote on 2/21/22 18:34: If I understand your request, the XEDIT OVERLAY command is just backwards of what you want. It replaces the existing line with any character, other than a blank, found in the original 'copied line'. This will take a little extra work. The original line needs to be saved, the copied line needs to replace it, then the original line needs to OVERLAY the now current line. I have a PRFMERGE macro that I got somewhere that uses the standard overlay function. Let me see if I can reverse it's function. Tony Thigpen Binyamin Dissen wrote on 2/21/22 12:40: On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 16:25:05 + Rahim Azizarab <03f036d88eeb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: :>In ISPF you would put X over the line numbers; and on the command line you would type ==> c ABC XYZ all X :>It results in changing all occurrences of ABC to XYZ on the lines marked by X only. I am referring to the function where you type C on a line that has the overlay data and then OO/OO on the group of lines that you wish to overlay. The only dependence on the data on the OO lines is that it will not replace a non-blank. :> On Monday, February 21, 2022, 07:24:39 AM CST, Binyamin Dissen wrote: :> :> What would the XEDIT equivalent to C OO/OO in ISPF which copies the marked :>line, only overlaying blank characters the targeted lines? :> :>Sort of applying SET MASK to a group of existing lines. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN /* prefix command - overlay two or more lines */ /* */ /* you specify the overlay source line using 't' prefix command */ /* you specify the lines to be overlayed using 'ot' or 'ott'*/ /* */ /* Unline the xedit command 'overlay', this prefix command will */ /* only overlay blank positions in the destination lines*/ /* */ /* to use this macro, add the following prefixes synonym to your*/ /* xedit profile: */ /* */ /* set prefix synonym t prfmerge*/ /* set prefix synonym ot m */ /* set prefix synonym ott mm */ trace off parse source . . . . . name . arg pref func pline op extra select when pref ¬= 'PREFIX' then call error1, 'this macro must be invoked from the prefix area.' when func = 'CLEAR' then exit when func = 'SHADOW' then call error1, 'invalid on shadow line.' when func ¬= 'SET' then call error1, 'this macro must be invoked from the prefix area.' when extra ¬= '' then call error, "extraneous parameter '"strip(extra)"'." otherwise nop end 'command extract /cursor/column' if op = '' & cursor.4 > 0 then op = cursor.4 'command extract /pending block oldname mm' if pending.0 ¬= 0 then do mm.1 = pending.1 'command extract /pending block oldname mm :'mm.1+1'* /' if pending.0 ¬= 0 then do mm.2 = pending.1 mm.0 = mm.2-mm.1+ 1 'command locate :'pline 'command extract /curline' baseline = curline.3 'command locate :'mm.1 do i = 1 to mm.0 'command extract /curline' 'replace' baseline 'overlay' curline.3 'next' end 'command locate :'mm.1 'command set pending off' 'command locate :'mm.2 'command set pending off' 'command locate :'pline end end else do 'command extract /pending oldname m/' if pending.0 ¬= 0 then do if pending.5 ='' then pending.5 = 1 'command locate :'pline 'command extract /curline' baseline = curline.3 'command locate :'pending.1 'command extract /curline' 'replace' baseline 'overlay' curline.3 'command set pending off' if pline < pending.1 then pending.1 = pending.1 - pending.5 'command locate
Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
I think I misread the requirement. Try this version, which also handles
block commands.
/*
PREFIXO
K -- Kopy prefix subcommand
O -- Overlay prefix subcommand
OO -- Overlay block prefix subcommand
Designed to be used with:
COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM K PREFIXO
COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM O PREFIXO
COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM OO PREFIXO
*/
arg p f l rest
if f = 'CLEAR' | p <> 'PREFIX' then exit /* Nothing to do, great */
parse source . . . . . pcmd .
if rest <> '' then signal Error /* Operand, we don't do those */
if index('KOO', pcmd) = 0 then signal Error /* Not ours?? error */
'COMMAND LOCATE :'l /* Go to the line we're handling */
if pcmd = 'K' then signal JustWait /* Kopying, go Wait for O */
'EXTRACT /PENDING K'/* Is there a pending K?? */
if pending.0 = 0 then signal JustWait/* No, just wait */
kline = pending.1/* Remember where Kopied line is */
'COMMAND LOCATE :'pending.1 'COMMAND EXTRACT /CURLINE' /* Go */
kopy = curline.3 /* Get the Kopied data */
'COMMAND EXTRACT /PENDING BLOCK OO :0' l /* See if OO pending */
select
when pcmd = 'O' then do
call Overlay l l /* Simple O, do that */
'COMMAND LOCATE :'kline 'SET PENDING OFF'/* And clear K */
end
when pending.0 = 0 then/* OO and not pending?? */
'COMMAND LOCATE :'l 'COMMAND SET PENDING BLOCK OO' /* Wait */
otherwise /* OO and already a pending K and OO, process it */
call Overlay pending.1 l /* Go do the overlays */
'COMMAND LOCATE :'pending.1 'SET PENDING OFF' /* Clear OO */
'COMMAND LOCATE :'kline 'SET PENDING OFF' /* And clear K */
end
exit
/* Do overlays: Build replacement lines, overlaying only blanks */
Overlay:
arg s e/* Start and end lines */
do n = s to e/* Spin through them */
'COMMAND LOCATE :'n 'COMMAND EXTRACT /CURLINE' /* Get data */
r = '' /* No replacement yet */
do i = 1 to length(kopy) /* Only care about overlay length */
c = substr(curline.3, i, 1) /* Get character from line */
if c = '' then r = r || substr(kopy, i, 1) /* Overlay blank */
else r = r || c /* Don't overlay if not blank */
end
if r <> '' then 'COMMAND REPLACE' r /* Replace if not null */
end
return
JustWait: /* Reset pending command, either K or OO */
'COMMAND SET PENDING ON' pcmd
exit
Error: /* Invalid, show prefix error */
'COMMAND SET PENDING ERROR' pcmd rest
exit
--
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Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
If I understand your request, the XEDIT OVERLAY command is just backwards of what you want. It replaces the existing line with any character, other than a blank, found in the original 'copied line'. This will take a little extra work. The original line needs to be saved, the copied line needs to replace it, then the original line needs to OVERLAY the now current line. I have a PRFMERGE macro that I got somewhere that uses the standard overlay function. Let me see if I can reverse it's function. Tony Thigpen Binyamin Dissen wrote on 2/21/22 12:40: On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 16:25:05 + Rahim Azizarab <03f036d88eeb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: :>In ISPF you would put X over the line numbers; and on the command line you would type ==> c ABC XYZ all X :>It results in changing all occurrences of ABC to XYZ on the lines marked by X only. I am referring to the function where you type C on a line that has the overlay data and then OO/OO on the group of lines that you wish to overlay. The only dependence on the data on the OO lines is that it will not replace a non-blank. :>On Monday, February 21, 2022, 07:24:39 AM CST, Binyamin Dissen wrote: :> :> What would the XEDIT equivalent to C OO/OO in ISPF which copies the marked :>line, only overlaying blank characters the targeted lines? :> :>Sort of applying SET MASK to a group of existing lines. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
Tony Harminc wrote: > I use it all the time to put change markers on new lines. Of course with a >decent TN3270 program you can probably just as easily copy & paste them in >at that level. Ah! Of course that explains why I never wanted it for that purpose with XEDIT, where the SIDCODE can be added by the editor. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 at 15:32, Phil Smith III wrote: > Binyamin Dissen wrote: > > >I am referring to the function where you type C on a line that has the > overlay > >data and then OO/OO on the group of lines that you wish to overlay. The > only > >dependence on the data on the OO lines is that it will not replace a > >non-blank. > > I've used XEDIT since it was released, KEDIT equally, and neither has this > direct analog. I have also never actually *WANTED* it, which is not to > dismiss your requirement-just to note that it may not be that common. > I use it all the time to put change markers on new lines. Of course with a decent TN3270 program you can probably just as easily copy & paste them in at that level. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
Binyamin Dissen wrote:
>I am referring to the function where you type C on a line that has the
overlay
>data and then OO/OO on the group of lines that you wish to overlay. The
only
>dependence on the data on the OO lines is that it will not replace a
>non-blank.
I've used XEDIT since it was released, KEDIT equally, and neither has this
direct analog. I have also never actually *WANTED* it, which is not to
dismiss your requirement-just to note that it may not be that common.
In any case, as Shmuel writes, a user macro would do it.
XCOL might also; that's a toolkit I know I used about 1% of.
So you want this (b = blank):
Origin line: XXXbbXXX
Target line: YbYYbYbY
and the result is:
YXYYbYXY
?
If so, try the following, not extensively tested, only overlays a single
line (could be made to handle block overlays):
/*
PREFIXO
K -- Kopy prefix subcommand
O -- Overlay prefix subcommand
Designed to be used with:
COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM K PREFIXO
COMMAND SET PREFIX SYNONYM O PREFIXO
*/
arg p f l rest
if f = 'CLEAR' | p <> 'PREFIX' then exit
parse source . . . . . pcmd .
if index('KO', pcmd) = 0 then signal EXIT
'EXTRACT /LINE/'
'COMMAND LOCATE :'l
'EXTRACT /CURLINE/'
if pcmd = 'K' then signal Kopy
address command 'GLOBALV SELECT PREFIXO GET KOPY KOPIED'
if kopied <> 1 then signal NotKopied
'COMMAND OVERLAY' kopy
signal EXIT
Kopy:
kopy = curline.3
kopied = 1
address command 'GLOBALV SELECT PREFIXO PUT KOPY KOPIED'
signal EXIT
NotKopied:
'COMMAND EMSG No Kopied line'
rc = 5
Exit:
if rc = 0 | rc = 1 then exit
'COMMAND SET PENDING ERROR' pcmd rest
exit
--
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Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 16:25:05 + Rahim Azizarab <03f036d88eeb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: :>In ISPF you would put X over the line numbers; and on the command line you would type ==> c ABC XYZ all X :>It results in changing all occurrences of ABC to XYZ on the lines marked by X only. I am referring to the function where you type C on a line that has the overlay data and then OO/OO on the group of lines that you wish to overlay. The only dependence on the data on the OO lines is that it will not replace a non-blank. :>On Monday, February 21, 2022, 07:24:39 AM CST, Binyamin Dissen wrote: :> :> What would the XEDIT equivalent to C OO/OO in ISPF which copies the marked :>line, only overlaying blank characters the targeted lines? :> :>Sort of applying SET MASK to a group of existing lines. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
A user-written prefix macro; likely one is floating around. If not, it shouldn't be difficult to write one using COVERLAY or OVERLAY to do the heavy lifting. You'll need SET PREFIX SYNONYM in your profile. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Binyamin Dissen [bdis...@dissensoftware.com] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 8:24 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay) What would the XEDIT equivalent to C OO/OO in ISPF which copies the marked line, only overlaying blank characters the targeted lines? Sort of applying SET MASK to a group of existing lines. -- Binyamin Dissen http://secure-web.cisco.com/1fff-bap2gq6Qbyy61bg4OZkPrwzPpCNEfcmctsKmeIn6xjaFji9_DpJJpWWIMYY5VIMI6LbTy_VQ5yn4LGPrOKUvO9NeZte2mte_o6LFqmeE31IAjWwrBxXPlMdw-IaySZrVaeAFKTrNx4ZnXoMc9kbZkKJ4r1-IxVybEf71sCyuwA0JFALG1MOzXlJQ5wP2vwqYLhSy9NHtucqO6Sx7eO-UnRqjL6ULT9BUxJ2H6O008tTb7wUEz-2Eu0aHc-OnWfKMPWfyRY4f0gXFx7xKBpjbdPyEYDLvpmU4D22RTFigb3IyWYwUr31EL-h7QtumHz74VZPkWuyB87LlxgYjhu9qv8x0Uko0IL84KyUNM5wpNRP9zL5a7XItWTyXfqZOJHi4kZD5PvOoGcWagfBpbLZxuhR64cGjyCyDarRHfWpaTP2Go1ve8BUVdA63Sd09/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
In ISPF you would put X over the line numbers; and on the command line you would type ==> c ABC XYZ all X It results in changing all occurrences of ABC to XYZ on the lines marked by X only. regards; Rahim On Monday, February 21, 2022, 07:24:39 AM CST, Binyamin Dissen wrote: What would the XEDIT equivalent to C OO/OO in ISPF which copies the marked line, only overlaying blank characters the targeted lines? Sort of applying SET MASK to a group of existing lines. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
XEDIT equivalent to ISPF C - OO/OO (copy overlay)
What would the XEDIT equivalent to C OO/OO in ISPF which copies the marked line, only overlaying blank characters the targeted lines? Sort of applying SET MASK to a group of existing lines. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
