Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[Ismael Venegas Castelló]

Hello Milan, 

I have already changed the review option, so now only the reviewed strings 
are shown in production, un reviewed strings are still shown in staging. I 
have named you team administrator so you can review and even organize the 
French team, if there is anything else I can do for you, please do let me 
know, thank you very much!

Cheers!


El lunes, 10 de octubre de 2016, 20:11:50 (UTC-5), Milan Bouchet-Valat 
escribió:
>
> (Sorry, this message was apparently blocked since Saturday. Sending it 
> again.) 
>
> Le samedi 08 octobre 2016 à 07:59 -0700, Ismael Venegas Castelló a 
> écrit : 
> > 
> > I got a mail today and I published a response, but I'm not sure why 
> > it doesn't show up here, so I'll paste it verbatim: 
> OK, I had kept it private to avoid sounding too negative and risking 
> discouraging contributors. But since you made it public... :-) 
>
> > 
> > Hi Milan!  
> > 
> > Thank you for stating your concern,  
> > 
> > > 
> > >  but I'm worried that we completely destroy the professional aspect 
> > of the website 
> > 
> > I agree with you but, I think that we need a banner in the julia 
> > website stating that the translations are not done by professionals 
> > but by volunteers and also inviting them to join and improve the 
> > translations in their own languages.  
> > 
> > I'll activate another option that is more strict, in which only 
> > reviewed translations will be able to be shown in the website (as 
> > opposed to only translated but un reviewed ones), but anyway, since 
> > this is a collaborative effort we need to work as a team. For example 
> > Transifex doesn't prohibit someone of reviewing his/her own 
> > translations, even when I've tried to make clear that this is not a 
> > good practice, there is no way to enforce it. 
> OK, it's great that you can require reviews before publishing. That 
> should really improve the quality of translations, even if people can 
> cheat (in general, I think we can assume good faith from contributors). 
>
> > 
> > However, please join the French team and un review, comment and 
> > correct the strings in order to improve the quality, there is no 
> > other way (other than paying for professional translations). 
> > 
> > The team is small but growing, and the project has just started, if 
> > we state publicly that the translations are crowd sourced by the 
> > community and an ongoing progress, then I'm sure no one will expect 
> > them to be of professional grade yet, and no reputation will be 
> > affected. 
> > 
> > Expecting professional translation from the get go, is unrealistic 
> > without investing money into the project. And waiting, g for all the 
> > crowd sourced translations to become of professional grade, would 
> > kill the motivation of the contributors, as this has already 
> > happened, the project was stagnant for 1+ year (with the 
> > infrastructure already being ready and tested). If the project had 
> > continued, maybe today we would already have much more complete 
> > translations of near professional grade. 
> > 
> > So I think the best way to approach this is not to be conservative, 
> > but to be open and transparent, so we can get more help and others 
> > can't be disappointed for the current status, and the reputation of 
> > all, not only of the Julia project, but also of the contributors that 
> > are willing to translate for us, remains intact and even become more 
> > positive. 
> Sure, I don't expect a professional level from the start. But I think 
> we'd better validate the translations slowly so that they are only 
> online when teams are confident about them, than rush to publish poor 
> quality translations. As you note, teams need some time to be set up. 
>
> I've just joined the French team and made a suggestion, but I'm not 
> sure I have the permissions to review other's translations. For 
> example, who's in charge of deciding whether my suggestion is better 
> than the existing one? 
>
>
> Keep up the good work. I'm sure in the end it will be great -- I'd just 
> like to ensure we don't have to go through a too messy period with 
> broken translations everywhere. 
>
>
>
> Regards 
>
> > 
> > Think synergy! 
> > 
> > Regards, 
> > Ismael Venegas Castelló 
> > 
> > 
> > 2016-10-08 8:46 GMT-05:00 Milan Bouchet-Valat <>: 
> > > 
> > > Hi! 
> > > 
> > > I really appreciate the progress of translations of the website. 
> > > But 
> > > I've just realized the French version of the site contains lots of 
> > > mistakes, including incorrect translations, typos, and case issues. 
> > > In 
> > > some cases one cannot understand what the sentence means. 
> > > 
> > > Can I recommend extra care when translating Julia? Typically, 
> > > translations shouldn't be done by a single person, and should only 
> > > be 
> > > published after having been reviewed by another contributor. The 
> > > rule 
> > > should be that it's better to have an English sentence than a 
> > > broken 
> > > 

Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[Milan Bouchet-Valat]

(Sorry, this message was apparently blocked since Saturday. Sending it
again.)

Le samedi 08 octobre 2016 à 07:59 -0700, Ismael Venegas Castelló a
écrit :
> 
> I got a mail today and I published a response, but I'm not sure why
> it doesn't show up here, so I'll paste it verbatim:
OK, I had kept it private to avoid sounding too negative and risking
discouraging contributors. But since you made it public... :-)

> 
> Hi Milan! 
> 
> Thank you for stating your concern, 
> 
> > 
> >  but I'm worried that we completely destroy the professional aspect
> of the website
> 
> I agree with you but, I think that we need a banner in the julia
> website stating that the translations are not done by professionals
> but by volunteers and also inviting them to join and improve the
> translations in their own languages. 
> 
> I'll activate another option that is more strict, in which only
> reviewed translations will be able to be shown in the website (as
> opposed to only translated but un reviewed ones), but anyway, since
> this is a collaborative effort we need to work as a team. For example
> Transifex doesn't prohibit someone of reviewing his/her own
> translations, even when I've tried to make clear that this is not a
> good practice, there is no way to enforce it.
OK, it's great that you can require reviews before publishing. That
should really improve the quality of translations, even if people can
cheat (in general, I think we can assume good faith from contributors).

> 
> However, please join the French team and un review, comment and
> correct the strings in order to improve the quality, there is no
> other way (other than paying for professional translations).
> 
> The team is small but growing, and the project has just started, if
> we state publicly that the translations are crowd sourced by the
> community and an ongoing progress, then I'm sure no one will expect
> them to be of professional grade yet, and no reputation will be
> affected.
> 
> Expecting professional translation from the get go, is unrealistic
> without investing money into the project. And waiting, g for all the
> crowd sourced translations to become of professional grade, would
> kill the motivation of the contributors, as this has already
> happened, the project was stagnant for 1+ year (with the
> infrastructure already being ready and tested). If the project had
> continued, maybe today we would already have much more complete
> translations of near professional grade.
> 
> So I think the best way to approach this is not to be conservative,
> but to be open and transparent, so we can get more help and others
> can't be disappointed for the current status, and the reputation of
> all, not only of the Julia project, but also of the contributors that
> are willing to translate for us, remains intact and even become more
> positive.
Sure, I don't expect a professional level from the start. But I think
we'd better validate the translations slowly so that they are only
online when teams are confident about them, than rush to publish poor
quality translations. As you note, teams need some time to be set up.

I've just joined the French team and made a suggestion, but I'm not
sure I have the permissions to review other's translations. For
example, who's in charge of deciding whether my suggestion is better
than the existing one?


Keep up the good work. I'm sure in the end it will be great -- I'd just
like to ensure we don't have to go through a too messy period with
broken translations everywhere.



Regards

> 
> Think synergy!
> 
> Regards,
> Ismael Venegas Castelló
> 
> 
> 2016-10-08 8:46 GMT-05:00 Milan Bouchet-Valat <>:
> > 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I really appreciate the progress of translations of the website.
> > But
> > I've just realized the French version of the site contains lots of
> > mistakes, including incorrect translations, typos, and case issues.
> > In
> > some cases one cannot understand what the sentence means.
> > 
> > Can I recommend extra care when translating Julia? Typically,
> > translations shouldn't be done by a single person, and should only
> > be
> > published after having been reviewed by another contributor. The
> > rule
> > should be that it's better to have an English sentence than a
> > broken
> > approximately translated one. Translations can do more harm than
> > good
> > without a lot of care.
> > 
> > Sorry for sounding too negative, but I'm worried that we completely
> > destroy the professional aspect of the website by having random
> > people
> > do weird things in each language no core developer understands.
> > It's
> > very hard to keep control over that. Do you know whether the French
> > team is organized yet?
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > 
> > Le vendredi 30 septembre 2016 à 08:30 +0200,  a
> > écrit :
> > > 
> > >  Hi Ismael
> > > That's it. I8 I have a little github with forks to put my
> > examples. I
> > > 
> > > read gitter and saw that most of translation was on stating now.
> > > I found the 

Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[Ismael Venegas Castelló]

I'll leave this references here.

Attract more contributors to i18n #428

https://github.com/JuliaLang/julialang.github.com/issues/428

Julia-i18n dashboard

https://github.com/Julia-i18n/julia-i18n/projects/1

Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[henri.gir...@gmail.com]

Personally I think it's better to have translated web even if it doesn't 
look professional. I understood that it would be interesting that more 
people participated to translation ?


Milan if you find mistakes of mine (I surely do !) better correcting 
them I wouldn't be angry... But telling me that it would be better not 
to translate them is a bit too much. Maybe in your professional position 
you say what you want but with people who are doing there best to 
improved translation I think it is displaced !


Regards

Henri


Le 08/10/2016 à 16:59, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :
*I got a mail today and I published a response, but I'm not sure why 
it doesn't show up here, so I'll paste it verbatim:*


Hi Milan!

Thank you for stating your concern,

>but I'm worried that we completely destroy the professional aspect of 
the website


I agree with you but, I think that we need a banner in the julia 
website stating that the translations are *not *done by professionals 
but by volunteers and also inviting them to join and improve the 
translations in their own languages.


I'll activate another option that is more strict, in which only 
reviewed translations will be able to be shown in the website (as 
opposed to only translated but un reviewed ones), but anyway, since 
this is a collaborative effort we need to work as a team. For example 
Transifex doesn't prohibit someone of reviewing his/her own 
translations, even when I've tried to make clear that this is not a 
good practice, there is no way to enforce it.


However, please join the French team and un review, comment and 
correct the strings in order to improve the quality, there is no other 
way (other than paying for professional translations).


The team is small but growing, and the project has just started, if we 
state publicly that the translations are crowd sourced by the 
community and an ongoing progress, then I'm sure no one will expect 
them to be of professional grade yet, and no reputation will be affected.


Expecting professional translation from the get go, is unrealistic 
without investing money into the project. And waiting, g for all the 
crowd sourced translations to become of professional grade, would kill 
the motivation of the contributors, as this has already happened, the 
project was stagnant for 1+ year (with the infrastructure already 
being ready and tested). If the project had continued, maybe today we 
would already have much more complete translations of near 
professional grade.


So I think the best way to approach this is not to be conservative, 
but to be open and transparent, so we can get more help and others 
can't be disappointed for the current status, and the reputation of 
all, not only of the Julia project, but also of the contributors that 
are willing to translate for us, remains intact and even become more 
positive.


Think synergy!

Regards,
Ismael Venegas Castelló

2016-10-08 8:46 GMT-05:00 Milan Bouchet-Valat <>:

Hi!

I really appreciate the progress of translations of the website. But
I've just realized the French version of the site contains lots of
mistakes, including incorrect translations, typos, and case issues. In
some cases one cannot understand what the sentence means.

Can I recommend extra care when translating Julia? Typically,
translations shouldn't be done by a single person, and should only be
published after having been reviewed by another contributor. The rule
should be that it's better to have an English sentence than a broken
approximately translated one. Translations can do more harm than good
without a lot of care.

Sorry for sounding too negative, but I'm worried that we completely
destroy the professional aspect of the website by having random people
do weird things in each language no core developer understands. It's
very hard to keep control over that. Do you know whether the French
team is organized yet?

Regards


Le vendredi 30 septembre 2016 à 08:30 +0200,  a
écrit :
>  Hi Ismael
> That's it. I8 I have a little github with forks to put my
examples. I
> read gitter and saw that most of translation was on stating now.
> I found the search field on translation page.
> Thanks
> Best Henri
>
> Le 29/09/2016 à 23:48, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :
> > Hello Henri!
> >
> > Just a question, you are aishenri in GitHub right? Because I
> > answered this same question at julia-i18n chat room at Gitter,
just
> > want to make sure, I don't want to leave any question unanswered.
> >
> >
https://gitter.im/JuliaLangEs/julia-i18n?at=57ed5568be5dec755007a21

> > c
> >
> > Cheers
> > Ismael Venegas Castelló
> >
> >
> > > Hi Ismael,
> > > I would like to translate "home" first,  but I noticed it's
> > > difficult to find all text 

Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[henri.gir...@gmail.com]

 Hi Ismael

That's it. I8 I have a little github with forks to put my examples. I 
read gitter and saw that most of translation was on stating now.


I found the search field on translation page.

Thanks

Best Henri


Le 29/09/2016 à 23:48, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :

Hello Henri!

Just a question, you are aishenri in GitHub right? Because I answered 
this same question at julia-i18n chat room at Gitter, just want to 
make sure, I don't want to leave any question unanswered.


  * https://gitter.im/JuliaLangEs/julia-i18n?at=57ed5568be5dec755007a21c


Cheers
Ismael Venegas Castelló


El jueves, 29 de septiembre de 2016, 2:19:46 (UTC-5), Henri Girard 
escribió:


Hi Ismael,

I would like to translate "home" first,  but I noticed it's
difficult to find all text about it ?

Is there a way to research a precise text ?

I already translated a good part of it but I need to see it so
that I can be sûre of that.


Best
Henri
Le 28/09/2016 à 11:54, henri@gmail.com  a écrit :


I am wondering if one must write the html mark when translating ?


Le 28/09/2016 à 10:26, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :

Hello Henri!

Currently French is about 0% translated, we are adding to
production the languages that at minimum have the home page
translated 90 %, but you can see the current progress of all the
languages in the staging site here:

  * http://julialanges.github.io

You can see here a video I did tonight, were I am translating,
in order to give a taste of the workflow involved in doing this
with Transifex Live.

Please let me know if you have any doubt and I will gladly help
you as much as I can and thank you very much for your interest
and support to this project.

Cheers,
Ismael Venegas Castelló

El miércoles, 28 de septiembre de 2016, 2:49:32 (UTC-5), Henri
Girard escribió:

I went to french translation startet to translate but can't
see it on julialang.org  ?
it's not actualized ?
Regards

Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[Ismael Venegas Castelló]

Hello Henri!

Just a question, you are aishenri in GitHub right? Because I answered this 
same question at julia-i18n chat room at Gitter, just want to make sure, I 
don't want to leave any question unanswered.


   - https://gitter.im/JuliaLangEs/julia-i18n?at=57ed5568be5dec755007a21c
   

Cheers
Ismael Venegas Castelló


El jueves, 29 de septiembre de 2016, 2:19:46 (UTC-5), Henri Girard escribió:
>
> Hi Ismael,
>
> I would like to translate "home" first,  but I noticed it's difficult to 
> find all text about it ?
>
> Is there a way to research a precise text ?
>
> I already translated a good part of it but I need to see it so that I can 
> be sûre of that.
>
>
> Best
> Henri
> Le 28/09/2016 à 11:54, henri@gmail.com  a écrit :
>
> I am wondering if one must write the html mark when translating ?
>
> Le 28/09/2016 à 10:26, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :
>
> Hello Henri! 
>
> Currently French is about 0% translated, we are adding to production the 
> languages that at minimum have the home page translated 90 %, but you can 
> see the current progress of all the languages in the staging site here:
>
>
>- http://julialanges.github.io
>
> You can see here a video I did tonight, were I am translating, in order to 
> give a taste of the workflow involved in doing this with Transifex Live.
>
> Please let me know if you have any doubt and I will gladly help you as 
> much as I can and thank you very much for your interest and support to this 
> project.
>
> Cheers,
> Ismael Venegas Castelló
>
> El miércoles, 28 de septiembre de 2016, 2:49:32 (UTC-5), Henri Girard 
> escribió: 
>>
>> I went to french translation startet to translate but can't see it on 
>> julialang.org ? 
>> it's not actualized ?
>> Regards
>>
>
>
>

Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[henri.gir...@gmail.com]

Hi Ismael,

I would like to translate "home" first,  but I noticed it's difficult to 
find all text about it ?


Is there a way to research a precise text ?

I already translated a good part of it but I need to see it so that I 
can be sûre of that.



Best
Henri
Le 28/09/2016 à 11:54, henri.gir...@gmail.com a écrit :


I am wondering if one must write the html mark when translating ?


Le 28/09/2016 à 10:26, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :

Hello Henri!

Currently French is about 0% translated, we are adding to production 
the languages that at minimum have the home page translated 90 %, but 
you can see the current progress of all the languages in the staging 
site here:


  * http://julialanges.github.io

You can see here a video I did tonight, were I am translating, in 
order to give a taste of the workflow involved in doing this with 
Transifex Live.


Please let me know if you have any doubt and I will gladly help you 
as much as I can and thank you very much for your interest and 
support to this project.


Cheers,
Ismael Venegas Castelló

El miércoles, 28 de septiembre de 2016, 2:49:32 (UTC-5), Henri Girard 
escribió:


I went to french translation startet to translate but can't see
it on julialang.org  ?
it's not actualized ?
Regards

Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[henri.gir...@gmail.com]

Thank you... It's displaying and I noticed already some syntax errors.

Best

Henri


Le 28/09/2016 à 18:08, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :

Hi Henri!

In order to watch your content updated in the staging site, one of the 
project administrators have to push your changes to staging. I usually 
do this several times a day or at least once a day. The Transifex Live 
feature uses the WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) approach, so 
you will see your changes reflected in staging (after pushing them) 
and it will be exactly the same output.


If you'd like to show and share your current language status in 
staging to other friends, you could ping me at the current julia-i18n 
chat room @Ismael-VC (https://gitter.im/JuliaLangEs/julia-i18n) and I 
will try to update the staging site ASAP and send you a notification 
once it's done. Please focus your efforts at the beginning in 
translating 100% the Julia home page, so your language translations 
can be added to the production site, don't forget to notify me when 
this is done, so I can push your translations to production ASAP.


I am wondering if one must write the html mark when translating ?


Yes, please check out the following images:

The first one show a "copy" button used to copy the current string in 
it's original language to the translation text box, this will copy the 
HTML portions too as is!




In the standard editor (not the live one!) you can select the option 
to show this extended HTML





If you do not format the string translation correctly, Transifex won't 
allow you to save the string!


Note: I have pushed to staging just now!

As always if you have any other doubt, please do not hesitate to 
contact me and I'll try to help you ASAP, thanks for your support in 
this project.


Cheers,
Ismael Venegas Castelló

El miércoles, 28 de septiembre de 2016, 4:54:51 (UTC-5), Henri Girard 
escribió:


I am wondering if one must write the html mark when translating ?


Le 28/09/2016 à 10:26, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :

Hello Henri!

Currently French is about 0% translated, we are adding to
production the languages that at minimum have the home page
translated 90 %, but you can see the current progress of all the
languages in the staging site here:

  * http://julialanges.github.io

You can see here a video I did tonight, were I am translating, in
order to give a taste of the workflow involved in doing this with
Transifex Live.

Please let me know if you have any doubt and I will gladly help
you as much as I can and thank you very much for your interest
and support to this project.

Cheers,
Ismael Venegas Castelló

El miércoles, 28 de septiembre de 2016, 2:49:32 (UTC-5), Henri
Girard escribió:

I went to french translation startet to translate but can't
see it on julialang.org  ?
it's not actualized ?
Regards

Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[Ismael Venegas Castelló]

Hi Henri!

In order to watch your content updated in the staging site, one of the 
project administrators have to push your changes to staging. I usually do 
this several times a day or at least once a day. The Transifex Live feature 
uses the WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) approach, so you will see 
your changes reflected in staging (after pushing them) and it will be 
exactly the same output.

If you'd like to show and share your current language status in staging to 
other friends, you could ping me at the current julia-i18n chat room 
@Ismael-VC (https://gitter.im/JuliaLangEs/julia-i18n) and I will try to 
update the staging site ASAP and send you a notification once it's done. 
Please focus your efforts at the beginning in translating 100% the Julia 
home page, so your language translations can be added to the production 
site, don't forget to notify me when this is done, so I can push your 
translations to production ASAP.

I am wondering if one must write the html mark when translating ?
>

Yes, please check out the following images:

The first one show a "copy" button used to copy the current string in it's 
original language to the translation text box, this will copy the HTML 
portions too as is!


 
In the standard editor (not the live one!) you can select the option to 
show this extended HTML



If you do not format the string translation correctly, Transifex won't 
allow you to save the string!

Note: I have pushed to staging just now!

As always if you have any other doubt, please do not hesitate to contact me 
and I'll try to help you ASAP, thanks for your support in this project.

Cheers,
Ismael Venegas Castelló

El miércoles, 28 de septiembre de 2016, 4:54:51 (UTC-5), Henri Girard 
escribió:
>
> I am wondering if one must write the html mark when translating ?
>
> Le 28/09/2016 à 10:26, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :
>
> Hello Henri! 
>
> Currently French is about 0% translated, we are adding to production the 
> languages that at minimum have the home page translated 90 %, but you can 
> see the current progress of all the languages in the staging site here:
>
>
>- http://julialanges.github.io
>
> You can see here a video I did tonight, were I am translating, in order to 
> give a taste of the workflow involved in doing this with Transifex Live.
>
> Please let me know if you have any doubt and I will gladly help you as 
> much as I can and thank you very much for your interest and support to this 
> project.
>
> Cheers,
> Ismael Venegas Castelló
>
> El miércoles, 28 de septiembre de 2016, 2:49:32 (UTC-5), Henri Girard 
> escribió: 
>>
>> I went to french translation startet to translate but can't see it on 
>> julialang.org ? 
>> it's not actualized ?
>> Regards
>>
>
>

Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[henri.gir...@gmail.com]

I am wondering if one must write the html mark when translating ?


Le 28/09/2016 à 10:26, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :

Hello Henri!

Currently French is about 0% translated, we are adding to production 
the languages that at minimum have the home page translated 90 %, but 
you can see the current progress of all the languages in the staging 
site here:


  * http://julialanges.github.io

You can see here a video I did tonight, were I am translating, in 
order to give a taste of the workflow involved in doing this with 
Transifex Live.


Please let me know if you have any doubt and I will gladly help you as 
much as I can and thank you very much for your interest and support to 
this project.


Cheers,
Ismael Venegas Castelló

El miércoles, 28 de septiembre de 2016, 2:49:32 (UTC-5), Henri Girard 
escribió:


I went to french translation startet to translate but can't see it
on julialang.org  ?
it's not actualized ?
Regards

Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[henri.gir...@gmail.com]

Hi Ismael,

Looking at the git julialanges, one older french translation is showing 
(not mine) and above is mine still in english ?


Is there a gap between translation and display ?

Just for information.



Le 28/09/2016 à 10:26, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :

Hello Henri!

Currently French is about 0% translated, we are adding to production 
the languages that at minimum have the home page translated 90 %, but 
you can see the current progress of all the languages in the staging 
site here:


  * http://julialanges.github.io

You can see here a video I did tonight, were I am translating, in 
order to give a taste of the workflow involved in doing this with 
Transifex Live.


Please let me know if you have any doubt and I will gladly help you as 
much as I can and thank you very much for your interest and support to 
this project.


Cheers,
Ismael Venegas Castelló

El miércoles, 28 de septiembre de 2016, 2:49:32 (UTC-5), Henri Girard 
escribió:


I went to french translation startet to translate but can't see it
on julialang.org  ?
it's not actualized ?
Regards

Re: [julia-users] Re: translating julia

[henri.gir...@gmail.com]

thanks...


Le 28/09/2016 à 10:27, Ismael Venegas Castelló a écrit :

I forgot to link the video I mentioned, oops

here it is: 
*https://www.livecoding.tv/ismael-vc/videos/oyvBm-julia-language-website-i18n 
*


Cheers

El miércoles, 28 de septiembre de 2016, 2:49:32 (UTC-5), Henri Girard 
escribió:


I went to french translation startet to translate but can't see it
on julialang.org  ?
it's not actualized ?
Regards