KR> Jabiru 2200 available

[Chris Prata]

I have a Jabiru 2200, was on my Avid, considering selling. It's a late solid 
lifter (good serial number as far as improvements). 85HP, can run auto fuel.  
It's apart for overhaul, all machine work done including crank 
check/magnaflux/dowel update by Jabiru Pacific (the dealer this engine came 
from), valve job, jugs checked, honed, new thru bolts, rings, bearings, seals, 
flywheel bolts, hi-torque starter, etc etc new in the packages.  It is still 
apart as I was waiting to reassemble when it would actually be run. Had about 
150 hours at overhaul. No problems, no prop strike, flew it from CA to East 
Coast ran like a Singer Sewing Machine. 
These use about 3.5 to 4GPH and deliver 85HP and weighs about 145lbs. . Also 
have a Tenn Prop with almost no hours.
New Jabiru 2200 is $14,500.  
http://jabiruna.com/engines/how-to-order-your-jabiru-engine/

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Chris Gardner]

Mark,
Unless you have serious rabbit foot collection, leave the Corvairs in the 
garage!
Nobody can keep surviving crank failures at low altitude .
We all want to keep you around for many years to come!
Cheers
Chris G.


Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 20, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Mark Langford via KRnet  list.krnet.org> wrote:
> 
> See Mike Arnold's AR-5 at http://www.ar-5.com/ for a plane that turns 213mph 
> on 65 hp.  There are sacrifices, such as range, but it can be done with 
> careful engineering and construction, no retracts required.
> 
> And I do acknowledge that you can't go wrong with a properly rebuilt 
> Continental or Lycoming, although some parts are getting scarce, and 
> therefore very expensive. Still, if I were I starting from scratch that may 
> be where I would go...it would be a tough call. There's a lot to be said for 
> the Corvair's six cylinders and dirt cheap parts (except for that 4340 crank 
> and front bearing). But since I'm thoroughly up to speed on Corvairs, own two 
> complete engines in aircraft form and spare parts (none for sale...call my 
> wife after I'm dead), I'm sticking with what I know and have already bought 
> and paid for!
> 
> Mark Langford
> ML at N56ML.com
> http://www.n56ml.com
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Flesner]

At 10:29 AM 6/20/2015, you wrote:
>O-200 on a Cassutt gets there with the right prop & attention to detail
+

I'm not sure I'd want to make 1000 mile trips in a Cassutt (shoe box) 
turning 3000 rpm to achieve the speeds we're talking about here, if I 
could even fit in one at 6'4" and 200 pounds.  Solo in my KR2 with 
extra head room is as tight as I'm comfortable with.  Langford and I 
did 6 hours round trip to Oshkosh and back in my KR and it's doable 
but not nearly as comfortable as the trip we made to Red Oak in the Tripacer.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Mark Langford]

See Mike Arnold's AR-5 at http://www.ar-5.com/ for a plane that turns 
213mph on 65 hp.  There are sacrifices, such as range, but it can be 
done with careful engineering and construction, no retracts required.

And I do acknowledge that you can't go wrong with a properly rebuilt 
Continental or Lycoming, although some parts are getting scarce, and 
therefore very expensive. Still, if I were I starting from scratch that 
may be where I would go...it would be a tough call. There's a lot to be 
said for the Corvair's six cylinders and dirt cheap parts (except for 
that 4340 crank and front bearing). But since I'm thoroughly up to speed 
on Corvairs, own two complete engines in aircraft form and spare parts 
(none for sale...call my wife after I'm dead), I'm sticking with what I 
know and have already bought and paid for!

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Chris Prata]

Thats my plan, retracts, although I have read somewhere that at least at the 
160mph range retracts vs fixed means only a few MPH.
I am waiting for the results of 3rd class medical reform. While I probably 
would pass a medical now (but who knows), I want to fly when older and things 
accumulate, not only the pain of remembering each and every dr visit etc. I'd 
rather avoid that. 
Plan B is to build a fixed-gear KR1 with top speed of 138 at sea level which is 
over 150 at 10,000 (LSA max) altitude. But I really think the medical reform is 
likely to happen in one form or another, allowing a little more speed and 
retracts.



> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 07:52:21 -0700
> Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW
> From: krnet at list.krnet.org
> CC: billmasq at hotmail.com
> 
> I am just guessing here but I would think that the only way to realistically 
> got a 200 cruise would be to go with retractable landing gear.
> Anyone confirm/deny this?
> Bill Masq
> 
>

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Chris Prata]

hi larry you are right. I may fly fairly often to Florida and Midwest around 
1100 miles. Hoping to store enough gas to do that with one fuel stop. 15 mins 
is not big issue per leg so you have a point, the faster the speed, the less 
each increment really saves. 180 (the "advertised" cruise speed, lol) is 
probably way more realistic.

> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 08:09:20 -0500
> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW
> From: krnet at list.krnet.org
> CC: flesner at frontier.com
> 
> 
> >
> >>My goal is to have a hot cross country KR1 that can cruise 200
> 
> +
> 
> Don't get hung up on the 200mph speed.  The difference in time on a 
> 500 mile cross country at 180 mph instead of 200 mph is only 15 
> minutes.  How many 500 mile cross country trips will you make and 
> what are you willing to invest in time and money to get there 15 
> minutes sooner?  Leaving 15 minutes sooner would be a lot cheaper and 
> easier to accomplish.
> 
> Larry Flesner
>

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Phillip Hill]

There are some pretty specific "rules" that govern speed from a resulting
change in power. Basically, to achieve approximately 25% increase in top
speed you will have to double the power. To achieve approximately 40%
increase in top speed, manipulating power alone,  you will have to triple
the power. If your top speed is 160 mph on 85 hp, then you'd need a 255 hp
engine to gain an additional 64 mph (40%) of top speed. 40% of 160 mph is a
64 mph yielding 224 mph.  Take that back to 73% power for cruise, you might
run at 200 mph. But a 255 hp engine is going to add a hell of a lot of
weight.  A turbine engine might do that for youproperly done.  Fuel
economy will go out the window though...



On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Mark Langford via KRnet <
krnet at list.krnet.org> wrote:

> Chris Prata wrote:
>
> >>My goal is to have a hot cross country KR1 that can cruise
> 200 which I know will require substantial power at the upper end of> the
> normal power ranges we see.<<
>
> Kent Paser's "Speed with Economy" is the book Larry is trying to think of.
> And indeed, a very low-drag plane is the way to get there, and a KR-1 done
> right is certainly in that territory.  Roy Marsh won a race at 197MPH in
> his turbocharged VW KR2S prototype, but I'm not sure if that race was a
> circuit or one-way with a tailwind.  Also, his plane uses a NACA airfoil
> thinner than the RAF48.
>
> I assume you mean 200 MPH, and I assume by "cruise", you mean would do
> 200MPH wide open at 7500'.  It's probably doable with 85 hp, but I sure
> wouldn't want to do it with a turbo.  I don't know of many guys running
> them on VWs, but those that do don't seem to do it for long.  of the 42 KRs
> listed at http://www.krnet.org/kr-info.html , only two have turbos, and I
> know Orma had a lot of problems with his.  They're great for bragging
> rights, but not if you want to FLY a lot, rather than maintain a lot. I'm
> sure we'll hear from the few turbo drivers that are out there, but the are
> certainly a minority. VWs are being pushed hard enough as it is, without
> compounding things with a turbo.
>
> Short of going Continental or Lycoming, I think the Corvair is the key to
> flying reliably without a lot of maintenance headaches.   Despite early
> problems with crankshafts, Dan Weseman's new 4340 crank and front bearing
> have now done what GPASC and Revmaster did with the VWs...practically
> eliminate broken cranks, I believe.  Crankshafts are the only problem I
> ever had with the Corvair...everything else worked perfectly.
>
> Yes, they weigh 80 pounds more than the VW, but you'll spend a lot more
> time flying and less time rebuilding the engine!  They don't burn any more
> fuel than a VW when throttled back (except for the slight drag penalty of
> the extra weight), and the extra power is far safer from a climbout
> standpoint...getting you up to altitude in a hurry if something does happen
> on takeoff.A Corvair is actually narrower than a VW engine and only
> slightly longer, and a standard KR "Revmaster" cowling will fit it.
>
> I'm with Larry on speed, but also economy.  Whey you realize it costs 30%
> more fuel to run wide open than at cruise, you'll likely back off to cruise
> and get there slower anyway, at least I do!
>
> Another thing about the Corvair is the cooling.  The things are absolutely
> covered with fins.  There are all kinds of passages for air flow through
> the heads.  Take a look at VW heads and there's practically no daylight in
> there at all...a  fraction of the fin area that a Corvair has. There's a
> real  difference in the ability to cool the heads and oil between the VW
> and Corvair, which I suspect is the major reason why valve jobs are routine
> on VWs, and rarely needed on Corvairs.
>
> Speaking of valves, the hydraulic valves on the Corvair are set with a
> feeler gauge on the bench at assembly, and the valve cover never comes off
> again until you rebuild the thing.  Not true of the non-hydraulic VW
> valves, which require periodic adjustment.
>
> A KR1 with a Corvair would be a rocket, similar to what Richard Shirley
> has with his Jabiru 3300 powered KR1 (although his is almost certainly the
> slickest KR1 ever built).  I think he can do 240 mph or so, but due to
> overheating issues, he can't do that for long.
>
> If it were me, it would be a Corvair, and I intend to back that up with my
> next plane.  I already have one of Weseman's crankshafts in hand, and just
> about everything else needed to build my next one...
>
> Mark Langford
> ML at N56ML.com
> http://www.n56ml.com
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
> options
>

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Chris Kinnaman]

O-200 on a Cassutt gets there with the right prop & attention to detail

On 6/20/2015 8:52 AM, Bill Masquelier via KRnet wrote:
> I am just guessing here but I would think that the only way to realistically 
> got a 200 cruise would be to go with retractable landing gear.
> Anyone confirm/deny this?
> Bill Masq
>
>> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
>> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:02:25 -0400
>> Subject: KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW
>> From: krnet at list.krnet.org
>> CC: chrisprata at live.com
>>
>> There is a Jabiru 2200 that came with my current plane with machine work 
>> done and ready for reassemble after overhaul. 85HP, about 140lb all-up.
>>   Planning to build a KR1 (eventually, gathering and storing info now, about 
>> to order plans), and wondering the pro's cons. Or if anyone even has used a 
>> Jab
>> The VW's are appealing because, frankly, they are cheap, plentiful, and 
>> easy. And there is a turbocharger available. Some euro folks are getting 
>> into a normalizing turbo on the Jab, but the jury is out on that.
>> So I thought I'd just toss this out there. My goal is to have a hot cross 
>> country KR1 that can cruise 200 which I know will require substantial power 
>> at the upper end of the normal power ranges we see.
>> I have perused the newsletters for flight test data and pilot reports, and 
>> the advertised speeds are seldom reached. Although I am sure such a small, 
>> smooth plane with a little more power and the new airfoil would get there.
>> Thoughts?
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
>> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
>> options
>   
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options
>
>

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Mark Langford]

Chris Prata wrote:

 >>My goal is to have a hot cross country KR1 that can cruise
200 which I know will require substantial power at the upper end of> the 
normal power ranges we see.<<

Kent Paser's "Speed with Economy" is the book Larry is trying to think 
of. And indeed, a very low-drag plane is the way to get there, and a 
KR-1 done right is certainly in that territory.  Roy Marsh won a race at 
197MPH in his turbocharged VW KR2S prototype, but I'm not sure if that 
race was a circuit or one-way with a tailwind.  Also, his plane uses a 
NACA airfoil thinner than the RAF48.

I assume you mean 200 MPH, and I assume by "cruise", you mean would do 
200MPH wide open at 7500'.  It's probably doable with 85 hp, but I sure 
wouldn't want to do it with a turbo.  I don't know of many guys running 
them on VWs, but those that do don't seem to do it for long.  of the 42 
KRs listed at http://www.krnet.org/kr-info.html , only two have turbos, 
and I know Orma had a lot of problems with his.  They're great for 
bragging rights, but not if you want to FLY a lot, rather than maintain 
a lot. I'm sure we'll hear from the few turbo drivers that are out 
there, but the are certainly a minority. VWs are being pushed hard 
enough as it is, without compounding things with a turbo.

Short of going Continental or Lycoming, I think the Corvair is the key 
to flying reliably without a lot of maintenance headaches.   Despite 
early problems with crankshafts, Dan Weseman's new 4340 crank and front 
bearing have now done what GPASC and Revmaster did with the 
VWs...practically eliminate broken cranks, I believe.  Crankshafts are 
the only problem I ever had with the Corvair...everything else worked 
perfectly.

Yes, they weigh 80 pounds more than the VW, but you'll spend a lot more 
time flying and less time rebuilding the engine!  They don't burn any 
more fuel than a VW when throttled back (except for the slight drag 
penalty of the extra weight), and the extra power is far safer from a 
climbout standpoint...getting you up to altitude in a hurry if something 
does happen on takeoff.A Corvair is actually narrower than a VW 
engine and only slightly longer, and a standard KR "Revmaster" cowling 
will fit it.

I'm with Larry on speed, but also economy.  Whey you realize it costs 
30% more fuel to run wide open than at cruise, you'll likely back off to 
cruise and get there slower anyway, at least I do!

Another thing about the Corvair is the cooling.  The things are 
absolutely covered with fins.  There are all kinds of passages for air 
flow through the heads.  Take a look at VW heads and there's practically 
no daylight in there at all...a  fraction of the fin area that a Corvair 
has. There's a real  difference in the ability to cool the heads and oil 
between the VW and Corvair, which I suspect is the major reason why 
valve jobs are routine on VWs, and rarely needed on Corvairs.

Speaking of valves, the hydraulic valves on the Corvair are set with a 
feeler gauge on the bench at assembly, and the valve cover never comes 
off again until you rebuild the thing.  Not true of the non-hydraulic VW 
valves, which require periodic adjustment.

A KR1 with a Corvair would be a rocket, similar to what Richard Shirley 
has with his Jabiru 3300 powered KR1 (although his is almost certainly 
the slickest KR1 ever built).  I think he can do 240 mph or so, but due 
to overheating issues, he can't do that for long.

If it were me, it would be a Corvair, and I intend to back that up with 
my next plane.  I already have one of Weseman's crankshafts in hand, and 
just about everything else needed to build my next one...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Flesner]

>
>>My goal is to have a hot cross country KR1 that can cruise 200

+

Don't get hung up on the 200mph speed.  The difference in time on a 
500 mile cross country at 180 mph instead of 200 mph is only 15 
minutes.  How many 500 mile cross country trips will you make and 
what are you willing to invest in time and money to get there 15 
minutes sooner?  Leaving 15 minutes sooner would be a lot cheaper and 
easier to accomplish.

Larry Flesner

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Bill Masquelier]

I am just guessing here but I would think that the only way to realistically 
got a 200 cruise would be to go with retractable landing gear.
Anyone confirm/deny this?
Bill Masq

> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:02:25 -0400
> Subject: KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW
> From: krnet at list.krnet.org
> CC: chrisprata at live.com
> 
> There is a Jabiru 2200 that came with my current plane with machine work done 
> and ready for reassemble after overhaul. 85HP, about 140lb all-up. 
>  Planning to build a KR1 (eventually, gathering and storing info now, about 
> to order plans), and wondering the pro's cons. Or if anyone even has used a 
> Jab
> The VW's are appealing because, frankly, they are cheap, plentiful, and easy. 
> And there is a turbocharger available. Some euro folks are getting into a 
> normalizing turbo on the Jab, but the jury is out on that.
> So I thought I'd just toss this out there. My goal is to have a hot cross 
> country KR1 that can cruise 200 which I know will require substantial power 
> at the upper end of the normal power ranges we see.
> I have perused the newsletters for flight test data and pilot reports, and 
> the advertised speeds are seldom reached. Although I am sure such a small, 
> smooth plane with a little more power and the new airfoil would get there.
> Thoughts?   
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Flesner]

At 11:02 PM 6/19/2015, you wrote:
>My goal is to have a hot cross country KR1 that can cruise 200 which 
>I know will require substantial power at the upper end of the normal 
>power ranges we see.
+

That's a pretty lofty goal that few have reached in an aircraft the 
size of a KR1.  Richard Shirley comes to mind with his KR 1 using a 
Jab 3300 but I don't recall if he can "cruise" at 200 mph.  There are 
some books you will need to purchase, I don't recall the title but 
"building for speed" comes to mind, that will help you to build an 
airframe capable of those speeds on limited horsepower.  It may not 
be the KR1 you're looking for.  As the speed doubles, the drag 
squares.  Doubling the horsepower will not double the speed.  To 
cruise at the speeds you're looking for on limited horsepower, you 
will need to build very light, very slick, and fly very high.  It can 
be done.  Good luck

I'm not enough of an engine mechanic to advise you on 
engines.  That's why I fly behind a Continental 0-200.  Both VW's and 
Jab's have their concerns.  The VW concerns have been expressed here 
on the net and, of the three Jab powered planes at my home airport, 
all of them have had engine problems.  Nothing mechanical is problem 
free but my 0-200 is pretty much like a rock, even if it's dropped it 
doesn't break. :-)

Larry Flesner 

KR> Jabiru 2200 vs VW

[Chris Prata]

There is a Jabiru 2200 that came with my current plane with machine work done 
and ready for reassemble after overhaul. 85HP, about 140lb all-up. 
 Planning to build a KR1 (eventually, gathering and storing info now, about to 
order plans), and wondering the pro's cons. Or if anyone even has used a Jab
The VW's are appealing because, frankly, they are cheap, plentiful, and easy. 
And there is a turbocharger available. Some euro folks are getting into a 
normalizing turbo on the Jab, but the jury is out on that.
So I thought I'd just toss this out there. My goal is to have a hot cross 
country KR1 that can cruise 200 which I know will require substantial power at 
the upper end of the normal power ranges we see.
I have perused the newsletters for flight test data and pilot reports, and the 
advertised speeds are seldom reached. Although I am sure such a small, smooth 
plane with a little more power and the new airfoil would get there.
Thoughts? 

KR> Jabiru 2200 - KR1

[Mark Langford]

Chris Prata wrote:

>>I believe that a KR1 with the 85HP Jab and the Diehl wing skins at full
length, would cruise far and climb fast, and stall slow enough to be LSA.
The Jab weighs 140LBS, which I believe is less than a Revmaster type VW and
prob about the same as a minimal VW engine.<<

I would highly recommend that you extend the tail on the KR1 to improve
stability and reduce pitch sensitivity, especially if adding more wing area
like Diehl skins.  One more bay would help, but I'd go for two, along with
more rudder and horizontal stab.  A larger rudder will improve spin recovery
also.  Might as well start with KR2S plans and narrow it down.  We had that
conversation last week, so check the archive.  A typical VW is closer to 160
pounds.

I plan to build something similar, but with Corvair power...

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML at N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com 

KR> Jabiru 2200 - KR1

[Chris Prata]

Couple things, I have a Jab 2200 on my current plane (Avid Mk4). I was thinking 
of selling the avid and purchasing everything needed to build a KR1 with the 
proceeds.  One of my EAA buddies remarked "no one builds those anymore". To me, 
that means nothing. The KR has great looks, performance, and ease-of-build. I 
found a page somewhere that had numerous single seat planes that were 
supposedly "better",  but none looked as good, or had the features. 
I believe that a KR1 with the 85HP Jab and the Diehl wing skins at full length, 
would cruise far and climb fast, and stall slow enough to be LSA. The Jab 
weighs 140LBS, which I believe is less than a Revmaster type VW and prob about 
the same as a minimal VW engine.
I wonder what engines have been used on the KR1 though. It seems there are so 
many more KR2's, for example youtube has almost no KR1 vids, which is too bad...
It also would be great to know if any KR1's are flying with the Diehl wing 
skins not cut down, and what the climb and stall speeds are.
One other thing I wonder about is how well they recover from a spin. (If thats 
an issue I'd just put a BRS on it, or wear my emerg chute)

KR> Jabiru

[Tony King]

Just one correction - CASA has proposed the restrictions, they haven't
introduced them yet and hopefully they never will.  Just the proposal alone
has been damaging enough, and the way CASA has gone about addressing this
problem (if indeed there is a problem - which they've acknowledged they
don't actually know) is a classic example of a bureaucracy with too much
power and too little accountability.  Unlike the FAA, the promotion of
aviation is not part of CASA's charter.  Many people joke that CASA regards
only aircraft that never fly as being safe enough, but they could actually
implement such a policy (i.e. ground everything) without violating their
charter.

TK

On 30 November 2014 at 05:39, Mike Stirewalt via KRnet  wrote:

> Someone commented recently on the forum that CASA (Australian FAA) has
> limited Jabiru-powered aircraft to day VFR.  Most Jabiru powered planes
> are already used in that environment as trainers or light sport designs
> but for those who want to use their Jabiru-powered airplane as a normal
> airplane - tough luck if you live in Australia.  CASA's new restrictions
> include no carrying of passengers, no solo students, and no flying over
> populous areas.
>
> http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/newrules/download/spc-cd1425ss
> .pdf
>
> "Seems like the major problems are still the through bolts (rolled vs cut
> threads), valve guides and crankcase fretting."  (from pprune.org forum)
>
> Apparently rings & pistons & exhaust valves are frequent culprits with
> Jab engine failures.
>
> Paul Hanson with my local Chapter 14 finally sold his Wittman Tailwind
> with a Jab 3300 after continually having valve seats come out.  The buyer
> is putting in another, (different make) engine.
>
> It would be interesting to talk to Richard Shirley about his 3300.
>
> Many flight schools who use Jabirus run their engines, at least some of
> them, all the way to TBO.  And Colin has flown lots of miles with his
> 2200 so he would be another person with whom to discuss his thoughts on
> the subject.
>
> What is "crankcase fretting?"  I'm having trouble visualizing this but
> this is when the crankcase "swells" and squeezes the crankcase journals
> so tightly that the engine won't turn after shutdown until it has had a
> chance to cool.  Naturally something like this, besides causing
> horrendous bearing wear, eventually leads to a cracked crankcase.  It
> happens on some runs of the 4-stroke Rotax engine too I'm reading.
>
> Dealing with maintenance issues like these on both the Jabiru and Rotax
> are amazingly expensive for new parts.  Not even on the same planet VW
> and Corvair.
>
> Mike
> KSEE
> 
> What's your flood risk?
> Find flood maps, interactive tools, FAQs, and agents in your area.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/547a213db80da213c2ed1st04vuc
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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> options
>

KR> Jabiru Australia CASA

[John Martindale]

There is a political aspect to this also.



CASA has limited the Jabiru engine because it is a certified engine, that
is, it is subject to the same rules as your everyday Lycoming  or
Continental.



However, where the engine is in an aircraft registered under our
Experimental or Recreational Light Sport category there seems to be some
contention as to CASA's right to apply the restriction. If shown to be
appropriate, then CASA could have the power to apply it to any non-certified
experimental engine including the VW, Corvair etc commonly used in KRs. This
is seen by many as a regulatory imposition contrary to the very foundation
of the experimental category.



The restriction is apparently based upon some statistical failure rates, the
details of which are not being released, which is making it difficult for
our representatives to provide a balanced response. Importantly the failure
rates quoted so far do not appear to be significantly different to what you
see in other certified engines which makes you wonder why Jabiru is being
singled out. 



The limitation was released in stealth with neither the engine manufacturer
nor any of the home built aircraft organisations consulted beforehand.
However it has significant financial implications for all concerned.



I would like to think that our experimental owners will take note of the
technical issues under discussion and address them appropriately using good
airmanship but the problem at present is that CASA are refusing to elaborate
what they are or justify their position. 



Our country is becoming highly over regulated and a previous CASA director
once famously said "we would have enough work to do even if there were no
aircraft flying". .such is the mind set.sound familiar.



Cheers John



John Martindale

29 Jane Circuit

Toormina NSW 2452

Australia



ph:61 2 6658 4767

m:0403 432179

email:john_martindale at bigpond.com

web site: http://john-martindale-kr2.zxq.net

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Stirewalt via KRnet
Sent: Sunday, 30 November 2014 6:40 AM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: KR> Jabiru



Someone commented recently on the forum that CASA (Australian FAA) has

limited Jabiru-powered aircraft to day VFR...snip




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KR> Jabiru

[Mark Langford]

Mike Stirewalt wrote:

 > What is "crankcase fretting?"

One example of crankcase fretting is wear that occurs when the case 
halves that make up the "crank cradle" rub against one another, because 
operational forces momentarily (during each piston throw) relieve the 
bolt tension that normally holds the two halves tightly together. The 
displacement of the material at the joints allows the case halves to 
clamp together tighter when the engine isn't running, which has the 
effect of tightening the main bearings against the crank, in this example.

-- 
Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Jabiru

[laser147 at juno.com]

Someone commented recently on the forum that CASA (Australian FAA) has
limited Jabiru-powered aircraft to day VFR.  Most Jabiru powered planes
are already used in that environment as trainers or light sport designs
but for those who want to use their Jabiru-powered airplane as a normal
airplane - tough luck if you live in Australia.  CASA's new restrictions
include no carrying of passengers, no solo students, and no flying over
populous areas.

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/newrules/download/spc-cd1425ss
.pdf

"Seems like the major problems are still the through bolts (rolled vs cut
threads), valve guides and crankcase fretting."  (from pprune.org forum) 

Apparently rings & pistons & exhaust valves are frequent culprits with
Jab engine failures.

Paul Hanson with my local Chapter 14 finally sold his Wittman Tailwind
with a Jab 3300 after continually having valve seats come out.  The buyer
is putting in another, (different make) engine.  

It would be interesting to talk to Richard Shirley about his 3300.

Many flight schools who use Jabirus run their engines, at least some of
them, all the way to TBO.  And Colin has flown lots of miles with his
2200 so he would be another person with whom to discuss his thoughts on
the subject.  

What is "crankcase fretting?"  I'm having trouble visualizing this but
this is when the crankcase "swells" and squeezes the crankcase journals
so tightly that the engine won't turn after shutdown until it has had a
chance to cool.  Naturally something like this, besides causing
horrendous bearing wear, eventually leads to a cracked crankcase.  It
happens on some runs of the 4-stroke Rotax engine too I'm reading.  

Dealing with maintenance issues like these on both the Jabiru and Rotax
are amazingly expensive for new parts.  Not even on the same planet VW
and Corvair.  

Mike
KSEE

What's your flood risk?
Find flood maps, interactive tools, FAQs, and agents in your area.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/547a213db80da213c2ed1st04vuc

KR> Jabiru on a KR

[Rudi Venter]

Yes, as far as I know Willie is still waiting for paperwork from the 
local CAA, things move slowly in Africa..

I am really keen to see Willie's plane flying, if it works well, and it 
should, I am keen to put a Jabiru 3300 into one of my KR2's

Fly safe,
Rudi

On 9/29/2011 8:09 PM, Dene Collett wrote:
> Hi Peter
> No, unfortunately I can not help you with any drawings. When Willie first
> asked for help mounting the Jab to his airframe I offered to have a mount
> made for him by a friend of mine that builds the mounts for all Whisper
> aircraft. At the time he had a Jab motor that he used for positioning to a
>
> dummy whisper firewall to produce a jig. He built and flew his own KR2
> ZS-WEC that he sold to
> Serge Vidal and has a set of plans which meant that he would have been able
> to do the same for a KR without actually having the aircraft in his shop.
> Willie eventually got someone closer to him to build the mount for him. As
> far as
> I know the plane has not flown yet. Willie??
>
> Regards
> Dene Collett
> Avlec Project cc
> Port Elizabeth
> South Africa
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
>
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3926 - Release Date: 09/29/11
>
>
>

KR> Jabiru on a KR

[Dene Collett]

Hi Peter
No, unfortunately I can not help you with any drawings. When Willie first
asked for help mounting the Jab to his airframe I offered to have a mount
made for him by a friend of mine that builds the mounts for all Whisper
aircraft. At the time he had a Jab motor that he used for positioning to a
dummy whisper firewall to produce a jig. He built and flew his own KR2 
ZS-WEC that he sold to
Serge Vidal and has a set of plans which meant that he would have been able
to do the same for a KR without actually having the aircraft in his shop.
Willie eventually got someone closer to him to build the mount for him. As 
far as
I know the plane has not flown yet. Willie??

Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Project cc
Port Elizabeth
South Africa

KR> Jabiru on a KR

[Peter Drake]

Thanks Mike, I have emailed him

I see from the archives that Dene Collett has some engine mount drawings or 
data. Dene if you see this are you able to help me?

Peter Drake

www.peterskr2s.co.uk


- Original Message - 
From: <laser...@juno.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 8:51 AM
Subject: KR> Jabiru on a KR


Look up Willie van derl Walt on the archives and email him to see what he


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KR> Jabiru on a KR

[laser...@juno.com]

Look up Willie van derl Walt on the archives and email him to see what he
has to say about his Jabiru on his plane Shreck.  He may have some data
and if not, at least he'll have some valuable things to say about the
installation.  

Mike
KSEE


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AA, BA, BS, MA, MS, PhD Programs
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KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[Craig Williams]

Well written Pete and I see your point and theirs too.  We are all subject to 
some type of authority and a well written proposal will go a long way to 
getting things done over there.

Good luck

Craig
With the one and only KR2 Seafury
www.kr2seafury.com



--- On Mon, 8/29/11, pe...@heroic.co.uk <pe...@heroic.co.uk> wrote:

> From: pe...@heroic.co.uk <pe...@heroic.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair
> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> Date: Monday, August 29, 2011, 10:23 PM
> In defence of the UK LAA, they have a
> legal responsibility for all aircraft granted UK permits to
> fly.
> 
> The LAA represents the interests of UK fliers in many ways
> including fighting an endless battle over loss of airspace,
> EU rules harmonization. Whilst not perfect, the LAA largely
> run by unpaid volunteers does a great job.
> 
> If an aircraft crashes in UK, it always crashes close to
> somewhere, so attracts a lot of media attention - leading to
> all sorts of negative publicity for the LAA, this undermines
> all the good work.
> 
> The LAA engineering dept consists of 4 blokes who look
> after all aspects of design build and maintenance of 2000+
> planes so time spent looking at one design proposal
> affecting a single project has to be balanced again the time
> needed by all the other work. For example an A/D for an RV6
> could affect a hundred or so planes. So you can see its not
> so simple for the LAA to spend several days evaluating a
> single use mod.
> 
> The LAA engineering dept is funded by member subscriptions
> and permit fees, so the cost of their work has to be born by
> all members of the Association, so I hope you see why the
> engineer says NO unless he gets a well researched and
> documented proposal.
> 
> Pete
> -- 
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my
> brevity.
> 
> Patrick and Robin Russo <patru...@myfairpoint.net>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Change the paragraph below to DOWNWARD FORCES FROM REPEATED
> HARD LANDINGS 
> AND YOU HAVE IT. The fellow who wrote that paragraph below
> hit it right on. 
> I could put a 400 pound/275HP chevy up front of my KR and
> the final analysis 
> is I may not have an aircraft rated at more than 1.5-3
> "G"'s at 
> most.wether it's flying, landing or taking off.
> 
> Also, the persons or organization that said they would not
> allow a Jabiru 
> because "it is too powerful" has the obligation to
> demonstrate or prove that 
> it is indeed so. It is an absurd statement without the math
> and back-up data 
> to educate us. It is a "weight issue, not a power issue"
> 
> > - Original Message - 
> > > It's the downward force of a hard landing that
> might separate the engine 
> > > and
> > firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it
> through the air. That's 
> > why
> > it's more a weight issue than a power issue. Just
> improving the load path
> > from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall
> (near the longerons) 
> > goes
> > a long way to strengthening that setup.
> >
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 

KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[pe...@heroic.co.uk]

In defence of the UK LAA, they have a legal responsibility for all aircraft 
granted UK permits to fly.

The LAA represents the interests of UK fliers in many ways including fighting 
an endless battle over loss of airspace, EU rules harmonization. Whilst not 
perfect, the LAA largely run by unpaid volunteers does a great job.

If an aircraft crashes in UK, it always crashes close to somewhere, so attracts 
a lot of media attention - leading to all sorts of negative publicity for the 
LAA, this undermines all the good work.

The LAA engineering dept consists of 4 blokes who look after all aspects of 
design build and maintenance of 2000+ planes so time spent looking at one 
design proposal affecting a single project has to be balanced again the time 
needed by all the other work. For example an A/D for an RV6 could affect a 
hundred or so planes. So you can see its not so simple for the LAA to spend 
several days evaluating a single use mod.

The LAA engineering dept is funded by member subscriptions and permit fees, so 
the cost of their work has to be born by all members of the Association, so I 
hope you see why the engineer says NO unless he gets a well researched and 
documented proposal.

Pete
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Patrick and Robin Russo  wrote:


Change the paragraph below to DOWNWARD FORCES FROM REPEATED HARD LANDINGS 
AND YOU HAVE IT. The fellow who wrote that paragraph below hit it right on. 
I could put a 400 pound/275HP chevy up front of my KR and the final analysis 
is I may not have an aircraft rated at more than 1.5-3 "G"'s at 
most.wether it's flying, landing or taking off.

Also, the persons or organization that said they would not allow a Jabiru 
because "it is too powerful" has the obligation to demonstrate or prove that 
it is indeed so. It is an absurd statement without the math and back-up data 
to educate us. It is a "weight issue, not a power issue"

> - Original Message - 
> > It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine 
> > and
> firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air. That's 
> why
> it's more a weight issue than a power issue. Just improving the load path
> from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) 
> goes
> a long way to strengthening that setup.
>


_

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to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[Patrick and Robin Russo]

Change the paragraph below to DOWNWARD FORCES FROM REPEATED HARD LANDINGS 
AND YOU HAVE IT. The fellow who wrote that paragraph below hit it right on. 
I could put a 400 pound/275HP chevy up front of my KR and the final analysis 
is I may not have an aircraft rated at more than 1.5-3  "G"'s at 
most.wether it's flying, landing or taking off.

Also, the persons or organization that said they would not allow a Jabiru 
because "it is too powerful" has the obligation to demonstrate or prove that 
it is indeed so. It is an absurd statement without the math and back-up data 
to educate us. It is a "weight issue, not a power issue"

> - Original Message - 
> > It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine 
> > and
> firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air.  That's 
> why
> it's more a weight issue than a power issue.  Just improving the load path
> from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) 
> goes
> a long way to strengthening that setup.
>

KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[Peter Drake]

Mark

I have sent an email to Bill Marcy at the email address he used in the 
archives. I hope he still uses that email.

Regarding the engine weight issue. We have incorporated extra longerons top 
and bottom on the forward part of the fuselage to deal with the extra load.
However its no good without numbers, so I hope Bill can come up with some.

Many thanks for your help.

Peter Drake
www.peterskr2s.co.uk

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Langford" <m...@n56ml.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair


There's a guy named Bill Marcy (who I think is from Arizona or Colorado or
somewhere out that way) that did some structural analysis for Rand Robinson
in the 90's, and one of the things he said at the first OSH forum I went to
was that his analysis showed that O-200s and "just about anything else that
would fit" would be OK for the airframe of the KR2S, thanks to the beefing
up it got at the firewall (as opposed to the KR2).  Take a look at the
archives (http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp) and search for "Marcy"
and you may turn up his address.  RR should have his analysis that reports
this info though.  I assume she paid him to do the work, so she should have
it somewhere.  There's a message from Austrian Christian Kogelmann  where he
says he has the flight envelope analysis from Marcy that details max gross
weight, so he may know how to get in touch with him.  I'm betting RR knows
how to get in touch with him as well.

I can tell you that my Corvair engine weighs right at 245 pounds complete,
with everything it needs to run except fuel in the lines and electrons in
the wires (that's carb, exhaust, airbox, generator, oil, etc), and on my
first flight I tested the mount to 5 g's on the meter. I doubt the published
weight for Continentals or Jabirus is absolutely "full-up", so keep that in
mind when my 245 sounds heavy.

It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine and
firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air.  That's why
it's more a weight issue than a power issue.  Just improving the load path
from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) goes
a long way to strengthening that setup.

As for Corvair hp, mine was rated at 110 hp at 4400 rpm, but that was with a
different cam and I've got 15% more displacement now.  You can sift through
the stuff at http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/specs.html and find just about
anything you want to know about the stock Corvair specs or the
implementation that I'm running, with all kinds of  other details at
http://www.n56ml.com/corvair ...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 


___
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KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[pe...@heroic.co.uk]

Bill Marcy

See kiddiehawk.org
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Mark Langford  wrote:

There's a guy named Bill Marcy (who I think is from Arizona or Colorado or 
somewhere out that way) that did some structural analysis for Rand Robinson 
in the 90's, and one of the things he said at the first OSH forum I went to 
was that his analysis showed that O-200s and "just about anything else that 
would fit" would be OK for the airframe of the KR2S, thanks to the beefing 
up it got at the firewall (as opposed to the KR2). Take a look at the 
archives (http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp) and search for "Marcy" 
and you may turn up his address. RR should have his analysis that reports 
this info though. I assume she paid him to do the work, so she should have 
it somewhere. There's a message from Austrian Christian Kogelmann where he 
says he has the flight envelope analysis from Marcy that details max gross 
weight, so he may know how to get in touch with him. I'm betting RR knows 
how to get in touch with him as well.

I can tell you that my Corvair engine weighs right at 245 pounds complete, 
with everything it needs to run except fuel in the lines and electrons in 
the wires (that's carb, exhaust, airbox, generator, oil, etc), and on my 
first flight I tested the mount to 5 g's on the meter. I doubt the published 
weight for Continentals or Jabirus is absolutely "full-up", so keep that in 
mind when my 245 sounds heavy.

It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine and 
firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air. That's why 
it's more a weight issue than a power issue. Just improving the load path 
from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) goes 
a long way to strengthening that setup.

As for Corvair hp, mine was rated at 110 hp at 4400 rpm, but that was with a 
different cam and I've got 15% more displacement now. You can sift through 
the stuff at http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/specs.html and find just about 
anything you want to know about the stock Corvair specs or the 
implementation that I'm running, with all kinds of other details at 
http://www.n56ml.com/corvair ...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
_



_

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KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[Barry Kruyssen]

Hi Mark

>From Jabiru http://www.jabiru.net.au/ 
83.5 kg (178 lbs) complete including exhaust, carburettor, starter motor,
alternator and ignition system
Only thing missing is the 3.5 ltr of oil and the air box.

It's hard to beat the Jabiru weight, the price helps lighten your wallet as
well (double the weight saving)

Regards
Barry Kruyssen
k...@bigpond.com 
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/ 


-Original Message-
I can tell you that my Corvair engine weighs right at 245 pounds complete, 
with everything it needs to run except fuel in the lines and electrons in 
the wires (that's carb, exhaust, airbox, generator, oil, etc), and on my 
first flight I tested the mount to 5 g's on the meter. I doubt the published

weight for Continentals or Jabirus is absolutely "full-up", so keep that in 
mind when my 245 sounds heavy.


Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 

KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[Mark Langford]

There's a guy named Bill Marcy (who I think is from Arizona or Colorado or 
somewhere out that way) that did some structural analysis for Rand Robinson 
in the 90's, and one of the things he said at the first OSH forum I went to 
was that his analysis showed that O-200s and "just about anything else that 
would fit" would be OK for the airframe of the KR2S, thanks to the beefing 
up it got at the firewall (as opposed to the KR2).  Take a look at the 
archives (http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp) and search for "Marcy" 
and you may turn up his address.  RR should have his analysis that reports 
this info though.  I assume she paid him to do the work, so she should have 
it somewhere.  There's a message from Austrian Christian Kogelmann  where he 
says he has the flight envelope analysis from Marcy that details max gross 
weight, so he may know how to get in touch with him.  I'm betting RR knows 
how to get in touch with him as well.

I can tell you that my Corvair engine weighs right at 245 pounds complete, 
with everything it needs to run except fuel in the lines and electrons in 
the wires (that's carb, exhaust, airbox, generator, oil, etc), and on my 
first flight I tested the mount to 5 g's on the meter. I doubt the published 
weight for Continentals or Jabirus is absolutely "full-up", so keep that in 
mind when my 245 sounds heavy.

It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine and 
firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air.  That's why 
it's more a weight issue than a power issue.  Just improving the load path 
from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) goes 
a long way to strengthening that setup.

As for Corvair hp, mine was rated at 110 hp at 4400 rpm, but that was with a 
different cam and I've got 15% more displacement now.  You can sift through 
the stuff at http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/specs.html and find just about 
anything you want to know about the stock Corvair specs or the 
implementation that I'm running, with all kinds of  other details at 
http://www.n56ml.com/corvair ...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Glenn Martin]

On 8/28/2011 12:41 PM, Peter Drake wrote:
> So has anyone out there got any numbers that will back up the case for using
> a 120hp engine on a KR2S?
>
> I am mainly looking for any data on torque stress on the airframe.
>

  The formula for HP is Torque x RPM/5252. By substitution that makes 
Torque = HP * 5252/RPM. It doesn't seem to mention brand name of the 
engine, so you should be able to compare the torque of the Jabaru to the 
torque of the Corviar engine directly, unless the Jab is a GEARED PSRU, 
in which case you take can that into account. Of course, that's assuming 
the same prop on both. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
-- 
Glenn Martin,
KR2 N1333A,
Biloxi, MS

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Peter Drake]

Hi All

Thanks for all your suggestions.
We have come to the conclusion that the only way to get this one through is 
with raw data.
Engineers like numbers and no amount of hearsay evidence is likely to sway 
them.

So has anyone out there got any numbers that will back up the case for using 
a 120hp engine on a KR2S?

I am mainly looking for any data on torque stress on the airframe.

Thanks

Peter
Hereford UK

I have just had an email from the cheif engineer of the LAA and he has
refused to let us use a Jabiru 3300 in a KR2S because he says it is too
powerful!
Has anyone got any stress data that I can hit him back with?

A frustrated Peter Drake
Hereford UK



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KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[Tony King]

Hi Stef,

According to Jabiru, ramp weight for the 3300 is 83.5 kg (184 lbs).  This
includes exhaust, propellor (2 blade wood), starter, alternator, carburetor,
regulator, etc. Pretty much everything FWF except the mount and cowling.
Not sure on teh corvair but from what I've read a typical installation looks
like well over 240lb for the same items.

Cheers,

Tony King
Queensland Australia

On 28 August 2011 01:14, <stef...@kpnmail.nl> wrote:

>
> kr friens.
> What is THE weight of both ?
>
>
> Stef
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Stef and Ted are building the KR-2S see
> http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2
>
>
>
> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: krnet-boun...@mylist.net namens Larry Flesner
> Verzonden: vr 26-8-2011 19:35
> Aan: Ronald Wright; KRnet
> Onderwerp: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300
>
>
> >
> >
> >Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying,
>
> ++
>
> I don't know of any KR's flying with an 0-320.  The 0-235 and 0-290
> are the largest Lycombings I'm aware of.  The only "KR" flying with
> the larger engine was a TOTALLY re-designed airframe that was no
> longer a KR.  It made the Gathering at Red Oak, Iowa back about  2002
> or so and really wasn't all that fast for the horsepower.   The
> 0-320, in my opinion, is way over the top for a KR and would be
> totally unsafe, in firewall weight and CG problems, if nothing
> else.  If there are no reliability problems, I think the J3300 would
> be a great engine for a well built KR.  Personally, I'd LOVE to drop
> a Continental  IO-240 in my KR.  125 hp fuel injected with basically
> the same weight as my 0-200.  I don't have that kind of money but at
> least I can dream. :-)
>
> Larry Flesner
>
>
>
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KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[Larry Flesner]

>What is THE weight of both ?
>Stef
+++

Jabiru 3300 =  180 pounds +or-

Corvair=   220 pounds  +or-

Continental 0-200 = 230 pounds +or-

Larry Flesner

KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair

[stef...@kpnmail.nl]

kr friens.
What is THE weight of both ?


Stef








Stef and Ted are building the KR-2S see   
http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2



-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: krnet-boun...@mylist.net namens Larry Flesner
Verzonden: vr 26-8-2011 19:35
Aan: Ronald Wright; KRnet
Onderwerp: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300


>
>
>Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying,

++

I don't know of any KR's flying with an 0-320.  The 0-235 and 0-290 
are the largest Lycombings I'm aware of.  The only "KR" flying with 
the larger engine was a TOTALLY re-designed airframe that was no 
longer a KR.  It made the Gathering at Red Oak, Iowa back about  2002 
or so and really wasn't all that fast for the horsepower.   The 
0-320, in my opinion, is way over the top for a KR and would be 
totally unsafe, in firewall weight and CG problems, if nothing 
else.  If there are no reliability problems, I think the J3300 would 
be a great engine for a well built KR.  Personally, I'd LOVE to drop 
a Continental  IO-240 in my KR.  125 hp fuel injected with basically 
the same weight as my 0-200.  I don't have that kind of money but at 
least I can dream. :-)

Larry Flesner



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KR> Jabiru

[laser...@juno.com]

> I seem to recall Richard Shirley is running a J3300 in his KR1 without
any problems. 

That's said too lightly . . . no problem with it causing any trouble with
being "too much power" or anything like that . . . but he does have to
run at reduced throttle in cruise to keep temps under control.  

I suspect there's more to be said by him about the subject of "without
any problems."  

Paul Hanson, Chapter 14 has rebuilt his Jab twice that I know of.  He's
had engine failures in flight (Tailwind) and seats come unglued and
numerous other problems.  He has not a good word to say about that
engine.  He finally sold the plane and the engine at a loss.  Of course,
I rarely hear of anyone ever making a profit with these Experimentals.  

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v=cache:zlCe98QNoz0J:www.eaa14.org/news
/eaa14newsaug09.pdf+spirit+of+flight+offshoot=en=us=bl=AD
GEESilOKHHuEn-cI4qpvYESzXoVP6lTyDNN_BjggZITmf_I271H6wQirycCtM_sQrjSxHX7pJ
yl39vdVW4rpQM0N0s9CbK17PJvd4ZEVliQJHvwsKf7Uj-TQK3n_IGT0QzITFkEOK4=AHI
EtbSHgHwxTIzHRVBH4QkqHPlaNWKkng

I expect that link to get mangled in transit so if anyone wants to see a
biplane version of a Tailwind Google "Spirit of Flight Offshoot".  Very
unusual and interesting conversion.   

Paul's accident:

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=133289

Endless troubles with the Jabaru 3300 basically discouraged Paul from
flying any more, that and age.

My very uninformed impression of them is that they are beautiful to look
at but are overpriced and unpredictable.

Mike


57-Year-Old Mom Looks 25
Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e587d931cf786d703st02vuc

KR> Jabiru 3300

[bdazzca...@aol.com]

Off subject but I cant send in a question anymore for some reason:( It  
keeps sending me waiting for approval from the moderator. Please tell me what 
im  doing wrong:(


David Swanson


In a message dated 8/25/2011 4:48:39 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
fles...@frontier.com writes:


>I have just had an email from the cheif engineer of the LAA and  he has
>refused to let us use a Jabiru 3300 in a KR2S because he says it  is too
>powerful!
>Has anyone got any stress data that I can hit  him back with?
>Peter  Drake
>+++
+


How  about the  3100 Corvairs  in the USA flying hundreds of hours  
using a heavier engine of equal horsepower?

Or the several KR's  flying with Lycombing 0-235's or 0-290's ?

Or the heavier Continental  0-200 turning 3000+ rpm pumping out 
probably 120+ hp?

More  important than the HP the Jabiru is putting out would be getting 
the CG of  the airplane correct with the lighter weight engine.

Have your "chief  engineer" do a little research at 
www.krnet.org  or   http://www.n56ml.com/strent.html  or  
http://www.krnet.org/krs/kr100/  or   http://www.mtnguy.com/n966g/

Larry  Flesner




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KR> Jabiru 3300

[pe...@heroic.co.uk]

Hi Ron / Larry

The kr2 LEGAL vne in UK is 135kt, the kr2s is basically a kr2 so vne is 135 
(LAA logic). 

We even need approval to change the prop, so go figure what the guys think 
about uprating the engine.

Unlike your FAA relaxed approach, our folks insist on lots of design analysis 
before approving a major design change and 100+ hp is a big change from the 
original design approval which was for a 60hp vw.

What would be the point of propping a plane for max pwr at climb speed, yeh up 
like a rocket but then revving the guts for 135kt. The guys at the laa aren't 
stupid they know it will be propped for a comfy 130kt cruise, so they take the 
low risk option. There has been lots of recent complaints about the LAA worry 
culture.

I agree 100% the j3300 would make a good choice for a hot kr, but not sure how 
that fits with Peter Drake's STOL requirement. With 60hp I find it easy to get 
off and up 50ft in 300yds, but getting down in less than 500yds is pretty 
tough. Not sure how extra power would be helpfull.

Pete

-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Larry Flesner  wrote:


>
>
>Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying,

++

I don't know of any KR's flying with an 0-320. The 0-235 and 0-290 
are the largest Lycombings I'm aware of. The only "KR" flying with 
the larger engine was a TOTALLY re-designed airframe that was no 
longer a KR. It made the Gathering at Red Oak, Iowa back about 2002 
or so and really wasn't all that fast for the horsepower. The 
0-320, in my opinion, is way over the top for a KR and would be 
totally unsafe, in firewall weight and CG problems, if nothing 
else. If there are no reliability problems, I think the J3300 would 
be a great engine for a well built KR. Personally, I'd LOVE to drop 
a Continental IO-240 in my KR. 125 hp fuel injected with basically 
the same weight as my 0-200. I don't have that kind of money but at 
least I can dream. :-)

Larry Flesner



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KR> Jabiru 3300

[Larry Flesner]

>
>
>Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying,

++

I don't know of any KR's flying with an 0-320.  The 0-235 and 0-290 
are the largest Lycombings I'm aware of.  The only "KR" flying with 
the larger engine was a TOTALLY re-designed airframe that was no 
longer a KR.  It made the Gathering at Red Oak, Iowa back about  2002 
or so and really wasn't all that fast for the horsepower.   The 
0-320, in my opinion, is way over the top for a KR and would be 
totally unsafe, in firewall weight and CG problems, if nothing 
else.  If there are no reliability problems, I think the J3300 would 
be a great engine for a well built KR.  Personally, I'd LOVE to drop 
a Continental  IO-240 in my KR.  125 hp fuel injected with basically 
the same weight as my 0-200.  I don't have that kind of money but at 
least I can dream. :-)

Larry Flesner

KR> Jabiru 3300

[phil brookman]

landing distance mmn 
speed control is a very good idea as is flaps as is brakes 
tri gear or taildragger i wonder 
i can get it down to about 600ft but for ,margins need more 
a belly board can really help
phill






From: Larry Flesner <fles...@frontier.com>
To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Fri, August 26, 2011 6:21:59 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300

At 09:44 AM 8/26/2011, you wrote:
>Risk aversion
>
>Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying, I think I 
>understand the issue, the J3300 will allow the kr2 to dramatically 
>exceed it's stated Vne, so LAA will have to treat the resulting 
>aircraft as a new type with all the attendant design analysis.
>Pete
++


If 0-200's running flat out at 3100 rpm and 3100 cc Corvairs running 
flat out can't get the KR to fly at the 200mph Vne speed, I can't 
imagine the J3300 will be capable of getting the KR to "dramatically 
exceed" the Vne of the KR in level flight, even with the new faster wing.

The lighter weight and additional hp of the J3300 should improve the 
takeoff performance on any kind of runway surface.  Landing distance 
can be controlled with the use of flaps or speed brakes.  I can land 
my "heavy" KR in 1500 feet on a hard surface with the use of a speed 
brake and airspeed control.

I've never heard of any control surface attachment or engine mount 
problems on a KR other than in a crash and consider both to be quite 
adequate to the 200 mph Vne speed.  I seem to recall Richard Shirley 
is running a J3300 in his KR1 without any problems.

Just my opinion and not very scientific.  Go with whatever you are 
comfortable with.

Larry Flesner


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KR> Jabiru 3300

[Larry Flesner]

At 09:44 AM 8/26/2011, you wrote:
>Risk aversion
>
>Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying, I think I 
>understand the issue, the J3300 will allow the kr2 to dramatically 
>exceed it's stated Vne, so LAA will have to treat the resulting 
>aircraft as a new type with all the attendant design analysis.
>Pete
++

If 0-200's running flat out at 3100 rpm and 3100 cc Corvairs running 
flat out can't get the KR to fly at the 200mph Vne speed, I can't 
imagine the J3300 will be capable of getting the KR to "dramatically 
exceed" the Vne of the KR in level flight, even with the new faster wing.

The lighter weight and additional hp of the J3300 should improve the 
takeoff performance on any kind of runway surface.  Landing distance 
can be controlled with the use of flaps or speed brakes.  I can land 
my "heavy" KR in 1500 feet on a hard surface with the use of a speed 
brake and airspeed control.

I've never heard of any control surface attachment or engine mount 
problems on a KR other than in a crash and consider both to be quite 
adequate to the 200 mph Vne speed.  I seem to recall Richard Shirley 
is running a J3300 in his KR1 without any problems.

Just my opinion and not very scientific.  Go with whatever you are 
comfortable with.

Larry Flesner

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Ronald Wright]

The prop diameter/pitch can/will control the 3300 so it CAN'T exceed the VNE..  
Just because you have more horsepower doesn't mean it can/will exceed the VNE 
limits of the aircraft it's installed on.  Why do you assume the 3300 has more 
"power" than an 0320??  The 0320 I have (not installed on a KR2) is 160 hp..  I 
doubt the 3300 can turn out that much HP, but even if it could the PROP is what 
controls VNE, not horsepower..
 
Just my .05 worth.
 
Ron

From: "pe...@heroic.co.uk" <pe...@heroic.co.uk>
To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>; KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300

Risk aversion

Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying, I think I understand 
the issue, the J3300 will allow the kr2 to dramatically exceed it's stated Vne, 
so LAA will have to treat the resulting aircraft as a new type with all the 
attendant design analysis.

I would expect concerns about moving surface attachments and engine mount 
bulkhead design.

Peter back to your original email, I am uncertain if the extra power will make 
a kr2s more farm strip usable, as the critical issue imho is landing distance. 
Most US krs fly off longer strips so it may be useful to contact Willy Wilson 
who did the Test flights on Ken Aitchinkons kr

Pete
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

phil brookman <pjb1234...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

that seems on the face of it ridiculous 
powerfull and what would that cause .
what effects does he think will happen 
phill





_

From: Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thu, August 25, 2011 5:19:16 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300

Hi

I have just had an email from the cheif engineer of the LAA and he has 
refused to let us use a Jabiru 3300 in a KR2S because he says it is too 
powerful!
Has anyone got any stress data that I can hit him back with?

A frustrated Peter Drake
Hereford UK

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Drake" <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 3:22 PM
Subject: KR> Jabiru 3300


Hi All

There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines.

I am in the process of purchasing a Jabiru 3300 for my KR2s
We feel we need the extra grunt of 120hp to get out of some of the tiny farm
strips we have in the UK.
Is there anyone flying a KR with one out there?



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KR> Jabiru 3300

[Virgil N. Salisbury]

Get some taildragger time from an older instructor. Proper speed 
control will
greatly shorten your landing distance, Virg


On 8/26/2011 10:44 AM, pe...@heroic.co.uk wrote:
> Risk aversion
>
> Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying, I think I understand 
> the issue, the J3300 will allow the kr2 to dramatically exceed it's stated 
> Vne, so LAA will have to treat the resulting aircraft as a new type with all 
> the attendant design analysis.
>
> I would expect concerns about moving surface attachments and engine mount 
> bulkhead design.
>
> Peter back to your original email, I am uncertain if the extra power will 
> make a kr2s more farm strip usable, as the critical issue imho is landing 
> distance. Most US krs fly off longer strips so it may be useful to contact 
> Willy Wilson who did the Test flights on Ken Aitchinkons kr
>
> Pete

KR> Jabiru 3300

[phil brookman]

one thought there is a sonex near me with 3300 ...it would be very interesting 
to compare data from that ..
crossland moor huddersfield 
phill






From: "pe...@heroic.co.uk" <pe...@heroic.co.uk>
To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>; KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Fri, August 26, 2011 3:44:36 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300

Risk aversion

Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying, I think I understand 
the issue, the J3300 will allow the kr2 to dramatically exceed it's stated Vne, 
so LAA will have to treat the resulting aircraft as a new type with all the 
attendant design analysis.

I would expect concerns about moving surface attachments and engine mount 
bulkhead design.

Peter back to your original email, I am uncertain if the extra power will make 
a 
kr2s more farm strip usable, as the critical issue imho is landing distance. 
Most US krs fly off longer strips so it may be useful to contact Willy Wilson 
who did the Test flights on Ken Aitchinkons kr

Pete
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

phil brookman <pjb1234...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

that seems on the face of it ridiculous 
powerfull and what would that cause .
what effects does he think will happen 
phill





_

From: Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thu, August 25, 2011 5:19:16 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300

Hi

I have just had an email from the cheif engineer of the LAA and he has 
refused to let us use a Jabiru 3300 in a KR2S because he says it is too 
powerful!
Has anyone got any stress data that I can hit him back with?

A frustrated Peter Drake
Hereford UK

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Drake" <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 3:22 PM
Subject: KR> Jabiru 3300


Hi All

There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines.

I am in the process of purchasing a Jabiru 3300 for my KR2s
We feel we need the extra grunt of 120hp to get out of some of the tiny farm
strips we have in the UK.
Is there anyone flying a KR with one out there?



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KR> Jabiru 3300

[pe...@heroic.co.uk]

Risk aversion

Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying, I think I understand 
the issue, the J3300 will allow the kr2 to dramatically exceed it's stated Vne, 
so LAA will have to treat the resulting aircraft as a new type with all the 
attendant design analysis.

I would expect concerns about moving surface attachments and engine mount 
bulkhead design.

Peter back to your original email, I am uncertain if the extra power will make 
a kr2s more farm strip usable, as the critical issue imho is landing distance. 
Most US krs fly off longer strips so it may be useful to contact Willy Wilson 
who did the Test flights on Ken Aitchinkons kr

Pete
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

phil brookman <pjb1234...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

that seems on the face of it ridiculous 
powerfull and what would that cause .
what effects does he think will happen 
phill





_

From: Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thu, August 25, 2011 5:19:16 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300

Hi

I have just had an email from the cheif engineer of the LAA and he has 
refused to let us use a Jabiru 3300 in a KR2S because he says it is too 
powerful!
Has anyone got any stress data that I can hit him back with?

A frustrated Peter Drake
Hereford UK

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Drake" <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 3:22 PM
Subject: KR> Jabiru 3300


Hi All

There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines.

I am in the process of purchasing a Jabiru 3300 for my KR2s
We feel we need the extra grunt of 120hp to get out of some of the tiny farm
strips we have in the UK.
Is there anyone flying a KR with one out there?



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We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam.
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KR> Jabiru 3300

[Larry Flesner]

>I have just had an email from the cheif engineer of the LAA and he has
>refused to let us use a Jabiru 3300 in a KR2S because he says it is too
>powerful!
>Has anyone got any stress data that I can hit him back with?
>Peter Drake
>


How about the  3100 Corvairs  in the USA flying hundreds of hours 
using a heavier engine of equal horsepower?

Or the several KR's flying with Lycombing 0-235's or 0-290's ?

Or the heavier Continental 0-200 turning 3000+ rpm pumping out 
probably 120+ hp?

More important than the HP the Jabiru is putting out would be getting 
the CG of the airplane correct with the lighter weight engine.

Have your "chief engineer" do a little research at 
www.krnet.org  or  http://www.n56ml.com/strent.html  or 
http://www.krnet.org/krs/kr100/  or  http://www.mtnguy.com/n966g/

Larry Flesner

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Tony King]

Jabiru engines seem to have a pretty mixed reputation in Aus.  During a
factory tour at Brumby Aircraft (Australian designed and built certified
LSA) last year I spoke with the senior engineer about their experience.  He
told me they had delivered 10 aircraft with Jabiru 3300's and 3 had major
failures within the first 50 hours.  Their preference is now strongly for
Rotax, despite the lower power and they'll only install a Jabiru now if the
customer insists.

On the other hand, there are plenty of people who love Jabirus and have had
no issues - although it does seem rare to see a Jabiru for sale whose engine
hours match the airframe hours.  One recent development that looks very
promising is Rotec's liquid cooled heads.  Too soon to know whether they
make a big difference but their claim is they will enable a Jabiru engine to
reach its stated TBO.  They also claim the heads are lighter than the
original so the overall solution doesn't add any weight (although it clearly
adds complexity).  I'm thinking seriously about taking this direction.  By
the time I'm ready for the engine they should have a bit of a track record.

I really want arond 120HP since I've widened and lengthened the fuse, bumped
up the MTOW and want to operate off a relatively short grass strip.  The
Corvair story doesn't add up outside North America (in my opinion) due to
parts availability, local support, etc. and it's heavier than I'd like as
well.  The budget won't stretch to a Rotax 914 or the UL Power engine and
Subaru's too heavy as well.  That doesn't leave many choices and the Jab
3300 really fits the bill - if only there weren't so many horror stories
about reliability.  I'd really like to hear some success stories from Jabiru
owners.  Unfortunately happy customers are usually a lot quieter than
unhappy ones so it's a bit hard to tell what's the real likelihood of
getting a lemon.

Tony King
Queensland Australia

On 26 August 2011 06:58, Vaughan Thomas <v...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

> I dont understand the  "excess" power thing, but down under ( New Zealand),
> the Jabarus are treated as a bad joke, beautiful , light, have the grunt
> sure. But how many issues do they have? valve & head failures, (known to
> have dropped valves through pistons) causing engine outs, probably the wost
> are the poor flywheel dowling design which has caused countless flywheels
> to
> part company with the crank (great for ignition timing!) These engines have
> had hundreds of mods from original & have they got it right yet?  Vaughan
> Thomas
> Hamilton
> NewZealand
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "phil brookman" <pjb1234...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300
>
>
> that seems on the face of it ridiculous 
> powerfull and what would that cause .
> what effects does he think will happen 
> phill
>
>
>
>
>
> ________
> From: Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
> To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
> Sent: Thu, August 25, 2011 5:19:16 PM
> Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300
>
> Hi
>
> I have just had an email from the cheif engineer of the LAA and he has
> refused to let us use a Jabiru 3300 in a KR2S because he says it is too
> powerful!
> Has anyone got any stress data that I can hit him back with?
>
> A frustrated Peter Drake
> Hereford UK
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Peter Drake" <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 3:22 PM
> Subject: KR> Jabiru 3300
>
>
> Hi All
>
> There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines.
>
> I am in the process of purchasing a Jabiru 3300 for my KR2s
> We feel we need the extra grunt of 120hp to get out of some of the tiny
> farm
> strips we have in the UK.
> Is there anyone flying a KR with one out there?
>
>
>
> --
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&

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Vaughan Thomas]

I dont understand the  "excess" power thing, but down under ( New Zealand), 
the Jabarus are treated as a bad joke, beautiful , light, have the grunt 
sure. But how many issues do they have? valve & head failures, (known to 
have dropped valves through pistons) causing engine outs, probably the wost 
are the poor flywheel dowling design which has caused countless flywheels to 
part company with the crank (great for ignition timing!) These engines have 
had hundreds of mods from original & have they got it right yet?  Vaughan 
Thomas
Hamilton
NewZealand

- Original Message - 
From: "phil brookman" <pjb1234...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300


that seems on the face of it ridiculous 
powerfull and what would that cause .
what effects does he think will happen 
phill






From: Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thu, August 25, 2011 5:19:16 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300

Hi

I have just had an email from the cheif engineer of the LAA and he has
refused to let us use a Jabiru 3300 in a KR2S because he says it is too
powerful!
Has anyone got any stress data that I can hit him back with?

A frustrated Peter Drake
Hereford UK

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Drake" <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 3:22 PM
Subject: KR> Jabiru 3300


Hi All

There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines.

I am in the process of purchasing a Jabiru 3300 for my KR2s
We feel we need the extra grunt of 120hp to get out of some of the tiny farm
strips we have in the UK.
Is there anyone flying a KR with one out there?



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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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06:34:00

KR> Jabiru 3300

[phil brookman]

that seems on the face of it ridiculous 
powerfull and what would that cause .
what effects does he think will happen 
phill






From: Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thu, August 25, 2011 5:19:16 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300

Hi

I have just had an email from the cheif engineer of the LAA and he has 
refused to let us use a Jabiru 3300 in a KR2S because he says it is too 
powerful!
Has anyone got any stress data that I can hit him back with?

A frustrated Peter Drake
Hereford UK

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Drake" <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 3:22 PM
Subject: KR> Jabiru 3300


Hi All

There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines.

I am in the process of purchasing a Jabiru 3300 for my KR2s
We feel we need the extra grunt of 120hp to get out of some of the tiny farm
strips we have in the UK.
Is there anyone flying a KR with one out there?



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KR> Jabiru 3300

[Peter Drake]

Hi

I have just had an email from the cheif engineer of the LAA and he has 
refused to let us use a Jabiru 3300 in a KR2S because he says it is too 
powerful!
Has anyone got any stress data that I can hit him back with?

A frustrated Peter Drake
Hereford UK

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Drake" <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 3:22 PM
Subject: KR> Jabiru 3300


Hi All

There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines.

I am in the process of purchasing a Jabiru 3300 for my KR2s
We feel we need the extra grunt of 120hp to get out of some of the tiny farm
strips we have in the UK.
Is there anyone flying a KR with one out there?



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KR> Jabiru 3300

[Larry Flesner]

At 06:35 PM 8/24/2011, you wrote:
>On climb in the J160 I fly with the ball
>off centre to the left by about 1/16 inch and that drops the temp on the
>hottest cylinder by 5°CWOW.
>
>Regards
>Barry Kruyssen
+

Sounds like some cowling mod's might be in order.

My 0-200 runs 325F on an extended climb with 95 
degrees OAT and 300F in cruise at 2500 rpm.

Larry Flesner

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Barry Kruyssen]

In my experience the Jabiru will not last long if run at 2700 rpm as the
barrels will glaze and then oil consumption will go through the roof.  I
have 2 Jabiru 2200 4 cylinder engines, one in my KR2 and one in a Jabiru
J160.  The KR2 I have only ever flown hard, 2950 rpm plus, the CHT's are
around 310 Fahrenheit, and have had no problems with the engine.  On the
other hand the J160 was flown more conservative, 2750 to 2800 rpm because it
constantly had CHT's around 360 Fahrenheit.  The J160 has had the heads done
up 3 times, 2 new sets of barrels.  I modified the cowling and the RAMAIR
ducts and bought the temperature down to 320 Fahrenheit and now run it at
2950 rpm and have no problems (and get there faster).  

The same applies to the 3300 engine as I regularly fly with friends who have
the 6 cylinder engines have and also had problems.  One of them would
throttle back for hours and fly at my cruise speed and that stuffed his
engine.

Jabiru specify:
Max. CHT (Climb) 200°C (392°F)
Max Continuous CHT (Cruise) 180°C (356°F)
In reality we have found max of 180°C (356°F) and cruise 160°C (320°F) gives
us best results.

I have my Grand Rapids EMS alarm come on at 175°C and rarely have that come
on. Another trick to play with is to try flying with the ball off centre and
see what that does to your temps.  On climb in the J160 I fly with the ball
off centre to the left by about 1/16 inch and that drops the temp on the
hottest cylinder by 5°CWOW.

Regards
Barry Kruyssen
k...@bigpond.com 
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/ 

-Original Message-

 In order to operate the Jabaru 3300 equipped Sonex as light sport, it
requires a placard on the panel stating that the engine RPM must be limited
to 2700 RPM after 5 minutes of flight.

 Jeff Scott
 Los Alamos, NM
- Original Message -

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Larry Flesner]

At 03:19 PM 8/24/2011, you wrote:
>  In order to operate the Jabaru 3300 equipped Sonex as light sport, 
> it requires a placard on the panel stating that the engine RPM must 
> be limited to 2700 RPM after 5 minutes of flight.
++

Yea, right, sure, Mr. FAA man.., I'll throttle back.  :-) :-)

Larry Flesner

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Jeff Scott]

Hmm. I replied to this post last night, but never saw it posted back from the 
mail server...

 In order to operate the Jabaru 3300 equipped Sonex as light sport, it requires 
a placard on the panel stating that the engine RPM must be limited to 2700 RPM 
after 5 minutes of flight.

 Jeff Scott
 Los Alamos, NM
- Original Message -

 

 Does the Sonex have a prop that limits their speed to keep them light sport 
qualified? A friend of mine has the 3300 in a Y X that has just two flights to 
date. I'll be anxious to see how it compares to my KR. Larry Flesner

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Jeff Scott]

No. If you choose to fly the Jabaru 3300 equiped Sonex as light sport, you must 
install a plackard on the panel stating that the engine is limited to 2700 rpm 
after 5 minutes. The rpms limit the speed to fit the light sport consensus 
standards.

 -Jeff Scott

 

 Does the Sonex have a prop that limits their speed to keep them light sport 
qualified? A friend of mine has the 3300 in a Y X that has just two flights to 
date. I'll be anxious to see how it compares to my KR. Larry Flesner

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Larry Flesner]

At 02:06 PM 8/23/2011, you wrote:
>  I am renting part of one of my hangars to a young man that just 
> finished a Sonex using the Jabaru 3300. He's flying at about 250# 
> less gross weight than I am, but his Sonex easily out climbs my 
> O-200 powered KR. It isn't until we pitch over into cruise that I 
> go smoking past him.


Does the Sonex have a prop that limits their speed to keep them light 
sport qualified?  A friend of mine has the 3300 in a Y X that has 
just two flights to date.  I'll be anxious to see how it compares to my KR.

Larry Flesner

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Jeff Scott]

Peter,

 In fact, Ken Thomas of Jasper, AL has been flying his KR-2S behind a 3300 
Jabaru for a while. You'll find a few external shots of his plane towards the 
top of the 2004 KR Gathering photos.  I don't think 
Ken is on the email list.

 I am renting part of one of my hangars to a young man that just finished a 
Sonex using the Jabaru 3300. He's flying at about 250# less gross weight than I 
am, but his Sonex easily out climbs my O-200 powered KR. It isn't until we 
pitch over into cruise that I go smoking past him. Nice power plant. I wish it 
had better choices for a carb. He's been using the aerocarb, which has has 
caused him a few issues. I'm not a huge fan of the Bing carbs either. 
Apparently the newer model Jabarus have an improved cooling fin design that has 
helped significantly with the cylinder head temp problems that this model 
engine used to suffer from. 

 In my judgement, it is a good light weight powerplant and certainly a viable 
engine for the KR series.

 Jeff Scott A
 Los Alamos, NM

- Original Message -

 Hi All There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines. I am in the 
process of purchasing a Jabiru 3300 for my KR2s We feel we need the extra grunt 
of 120hp to get out of some of the tiny farm strips we have in the UK. Is there 
anyone flying a KR with one out there? Peter Drake Hereford UK

KR> Jabiru 3300

[samantha toner]

Peter have you to do anything specific to get 1100 mauw? My paperwork states 
950 thanks Mark
 
 
 
 
 
--- On Mon, 22/8/11, Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com> wrote:


From: Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Monday, 22 August, 2011, 17:03


Craig

Unfortunately the LAA are restricting me to 1100lbs MAUW so the Corvair will 
be too heavy.
Anyway getting the Corvair past the LAA would be like the proverbial 
camel

Peter

- Original Message - 
> Hi All
>
> There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines.


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KR> Jabiru 3300

[Peter Drake]

Craig

Unfortunately the LAA are restricting me to 1100lbs MAUW so the Corvair will 
be too heavy.
Anyway getting the Corvair past the LAA would be like the proverbial 
camel

Peter

- Original Message - 
From: "Craig Williams" <kr2seaf...@yahoo.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300


Why not a 3.0 liter corvair it's 120Hp.  Even with shipping it's way cheaper 
than the Jabiru.

Craig
www.kr2seafury.com

--- On Mon, 8/22/11, Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com> wrote:

> From: Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
> Subject: KR> Jabiru 3300
> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 2:22 PM
> Hi All
>
> There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines.


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KR> Jabiru 3300

[Craig Williams]

Why not a 3.0 liter corvair it's 120Hp.  Even with shipping it's way cheaper 
than the Jabiru.

Craig
www.kr2seafury.com

--- On Mon, 8/22/11, Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com> wrote:

> From: Peter Drake <p...@kingsland.uk.com>
> Subject: KR> Jabiru 3300
> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 2:22 PM
> Hi All
> 
> There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines.
> 
> I am in the process of purchasing a Jabiru 3300 for my
> KR2s
> We feel we need the extra grunt of 120hp to get out of some
> of the tiny farm 
> strips we have in the UK.
> Is there anyone flying a KR with one out there?
> 
> Peter Drake
> Hereford UK
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> 

KR> Jabiru 3300

[Peter Drake]

Hi All

There has been some discussion about Jabiru engines.

I am in the process of purchasing a Jabiru 3300 for my KR2s
We feel we need the extra grunt of 120hp to get out of some of the tiny farm 
strips we have in the UK.
Is there anyone flying a KR with one out there?

Peter Drake
Hereford UK



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KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S

[Peter Drake]

Barry and all

I am in the process of purchasing a Jabiru 3300 for my KR2s
We feel we need the extra grunt of 120hp to get out of some of the tiny farm 
strips we have in the UK.
Is there anyone flying a KR with one out there?

Peter Drake
Hereford UK


- Original Message - 
From: "Barry Kruyssen" <k...@bigpond.com>
To: "'KRnet'" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S


Hi Kolbjoern

I have a standard KR2 with a Jabiru 2200 Engine.

See my WEB pages
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/jabiru_engine.htm
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/w_and_b.htm

Being that the KR2S is bigger than the standard KR2 I would go for the
Jabiru 3300 engine (which is still lighter than a WV conversion engine and
120HP).

Any other info please contact me.

Regards
Barry Kruyssen
k...@bigpond.com
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/


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KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S

[Willie van der Walt]

The Jabiru is lighter so you may need to hang the battery on the firewall.
You can also fit spacers between the firewall and the mounting to extend it
forward. The engine must be offset 3 degrees to the right. My mounting is
10mm longer on the left side but untested. The long nose makes it look like
fighter plane. You can also mount the engine higher than a VW that will
allow you to swing a larger prop. As soon as as I fitted the RPM pick-up my
3300 will be ready to fly.
Regards
Willie
South Africa


---Original Message--- 

From: Kolbjørn Seth 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 2011/05/23 02:19:56 PM 
To: KRnet 
Cc: KRnet 
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S 

That would of course have been my next questions. I have an engine mount but
it remains to be seen if it will keep me within cg range. 
Thank you all! 

KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S

[Barry Kruyssen]

Hi Kolbjoern

I have a standard KR2 with a Jabiru 2200 Engine.

See my WEB pages 
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/ 
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/jabiru_engine.htm 
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/w_and_b.htm 

Being that the KR2S is bigger than the standard KR2 I would go for the
Jabiru 3300 engine (which is still lighter than a WV conversion engine and
120HP).

Any other info please contact me.

Regards
Barry Kruyssen
k...@bigpond.com 
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/ 

KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S

[Kolbjørn Seth]

That would of course have been my next questions. I have an engine mount but it 
remains to be seen if it will keep me within cg range. 
Thank you all!

Mvh.
Kolbjørn Seth

Den 23. mai 2011 kl. 12:46 skrev Peter Diffey <pe...@heroic.co.uk>:

> Yes Colin Hales is your man. 
> 
> He may well be able to help with engine mountings cowling etc
> 
> +44 7970 773507
> -- 
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 
> John Looby <jlo...@eircom.net> wrote:
> 
> The KR2 has flown from UK to Australia using that engine John - Original 
> Message - From: "Kolbjørn Seth" <kolbjorns...@me.com> To: 
> <kr...@mylist.net> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 9:50 AM Subject: KR> Jabiru 
> powered KR2-S Now I am finally a proper member of the community! I just 
> bought an 80% completet KR2-S (I know, I know, still 80% to go) from two 
> gentlemen in Gotenburg, Sweden who quite clearly knew what they were doing. 
> Excellent work as far as I can tell. It comes with a Jabiru 2200 80 hp engine 
> and I would very much like to get in touch with any other builder builders 
> using this engine to determine if this choice of engine is a viable path to 
> success. Contact with other builders in southern Sweden is also much 
> appreciated. So far I am sucking up as much useful information as I can from 
> the network and you really are a gold mine! Regards Kolbjoern 
> Seth_
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to 
> UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see 
> other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html - No virus found in 
> this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus 
> Database: 1509/3654 - Release Date: 
> 05/22/11_
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KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S

[Peter Diffey]

Yes Colin Hales is your man. 

He may well be able to help with engine mountings cowling etc

+44 7970 773507
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

John Looby <jlo...@eircom.net> wrote:

The KR2 has flown from UK to Australia using that engine John - Original 
Message - From: "Kolbjørn Seth" <kolbjorns...@me.com> To: 
<kr...@mylist.net> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 9:50 AM Subject: KR> Jabiru 
powered KR2-S Now I am finally a proper member of the community! I just bought 
an 80% completet KR2-S (I know, I know, still 80% to go) from two gentlemen in 
Gotenburg, Sweden who quite clearly knew what they were doing. Excellent work 
as far as I can tell. It comes with a Jabiru 2200 80 hp engine and I would very 
much like to get in touch with any other builder builders using this engine to 
determine if this choice of engine is a viable path to success. Contact with 
other builders in southern Sweden is also much appreciated. So far I am sucking 
up as much useful information as I can from the network and you really are a 
gold mine! Regards Kolbjoern Seth_
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to 
UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see 
other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html - No virus found in this 
message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 
1509/3654 - Release Date: 05/22/11_
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other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html 

KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S

[Willie van der Walt]

I fitted the 3300 engine in my standard KR2 but did not fly it yet. 


---Original Message--- 

From: John Looby 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 2011/05/23 11:11:07 AM 
To: KRnet 
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S 

The KR2 has flown from UK to Australia using that engine 

John 
- Original Message - 
From: "Kolbjørn Seth" <kolbjorns...@me.com> 
To: <kr...@mylist.net> 
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 9:50 AM 
Subject: KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S 


Now I am finally a proper member of the community! I just bought an 80% 
Completet KR2-S

KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S

[John Looby]

The KR2 has flown from UK to Australia using that engine

John
- Original Message - 
From: "Kolbjørn Seth" <kolbjorns...@me.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 9:50 AM
Subject: KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S


Now I am finally a proper member of the community! I just bought an 80% 
completet KR2-S
(I know, I know, still 80% to go) from two gentlemen in Gotenburg, Sweden 
who quite clearly knew what they were doing. Excellent work as far as I can 
tell.
It comes with a Jabiru 2200 80 hp engine and I would very much like to get 
in touch with any other builder builders using this engine to determine if 
this choice of engine is a viable path to success.
Contact with other builders in southern Sweden is also much appreciated.
So far I am sucking up as much useful information as I can from the network 
and you really are a gold mine!
 Regards
Kolbjoern Seth


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KR> Jabiru powered KR2-S

[Kolbjørn Seth]

Now I am finally a proper member of the community! I just bought an 80% 
completet KR2-S 
(I know, I know, still 80% to go) from two gentlemen in Gotenburg, Sweden who 
quite clearly knew what they were doing. Excellent work as far as I can tell.
It comes with a Jabiru 2200 80 hp engine and I would very much like to get in 
touch with any other builder builders using this engine to determine if this 
choice of engine is a viable path to success.
Contact with other builders in southern Sweden is also much appreciated.
So far I am sucking up as much useful information as I can from the network and 
you really are a gold mine!
 Regards 
Kolbjoern Seth

KR> Jabiru engine installation

[Barry Kruyssen]

Hi Dan

You may be able to deduce from my spreadsheet, Weights and Balance Excel
Document 1 - Latest data on certified scales, that I stay in the front 6.45
inches of the C of G range (I was aiming for the front 6 inches).

I achieved this by having the most forward configuration (full fuel plus 80
kg pilot) at the very front of the C of G range.

My worst case scenario is fully loaded (122kg passenger plus 16 kg baggage
plus me) with minimum fuel.  I have flown my KR2 configured as such, though
I had 14 litres of fuel on which gave me a C of G 6.16 inches.  I have never
loaded the KR2 like this since testing, maximum loading for normal
operations does not have a C of G of greater than 4.2 inches which is myself
plus 100kg passenger and no baggage. 95 percent of the time there is just me
plus 5kg of baggage so TOW is 366kg (808lbs) and C of G of 1.3 inches.

Regards
Barry

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+kr2=bigpond@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+kr2=bigpond@mylist.net] On Behalf Of DAN INA
GLANDT
Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2010 4:00 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Jabiru engine installation


Barry,
Thanks for the weight and balance information.  This will be very helpful.
I keep coming up with quite a bit longer mount for the KR2s.  That may be
because of the extra length fuselage.  From reading through the forum on a
search of cg,  I am led to believe that the real cg range is more like 8"
behind leading edge to 13.5" behind leading edge, so makes for a long engine
mount on mine.  I am still working on thinking this through so really
appreciate your input.
Dan   

KR> Jabiru engine installation

[DAN INA GLANDT]

Barry,
Thanks for the weight and balance information.  This will be very helpful.  I 
keep coming up with quite a bit longer mount for the KR2s.  That may be because 
of the extra length fuselage.  From reading through the forum on a search of 
cg,  I am led to believe that the real cg range is more like 8" behind leading 
edge to 13.5" behind leading edge, so makes for a long engine mount on mine.  I 
am still working on thinking this through so really appreciate your input.
Dan   

KR> Jabiru engine location

[Barry Kruyssen]

Hi Dan

I fitted a Jabiru 2200 to my standard KR2 in Sep 2004 and this is my WEB
page about the W & B.
http://www.athertonairport.com.au/kr2/w_and_b.htm 

My engine mount ended up being 440 mm long

Hope this helps

Barry Kruyssen
k...@bigpond.com 
http://www.athertonairport.com.au/kr2/ 


-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of DAN INA GLANDT
Sent: Sunday, 2 May 2010 10:16 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Jabiru engine location


HI,
Would someone be willing to help verify a reasonable engine location for my
KR2s for a Jabiru 2200.  Data is as follows:
Ref line -   firewallFuselage levelTanks empty Nothing mounted forward of
firewallFirewall aft - all in place (seats, wings, canopy, turtle deck,
landing gear [conventional gear], tailTwo people in seats weighing 366 lbs
Look at rearward cg @ 15" behind leading edge.  Understand allowable range
is 8" to 16".
Firewall to wing leading edge is 14.5"
Weight on mains is 615#   17.625" behind ref lineWeight on tailwheel is 138#
158.25" behind ref line
Estimated weight of engine, cowl, prop, mount, battery, etc. is 173#
Total estimated weight is 173+615+138 = 926#
Solve for D,  the distance to the cg of engine, etc.  
615x17,625 + 138x158.25 - 173D = 929x(14.5+15)10839.375 + 21838.5 - 27405.5
= 173D
D = 30.48"
Firewall to engine attach points will be 23".   
The tank behind the firewall holds 10 gallons.  The 8" dia al wink tanks
(formed to a d shape) are mounted directly behind front spar.

KR> Jabiru engine location

[Larry Knox]

Dan, I can't help you with that, but thanks for the general CG location
points. Iv' been trying to find this in my info when I didn't get it off the
KRnet. I still haven't found it. Interesting that you are putting a Jabiru
on your KR, I just received a new crated 2200 that I canceled the order for
as they could not deliver it when I needed it. It will not work on the Sport
Hornet application I wanted it for so I now have a new engine to add to my
collection of goodies that I don't need. I see why you didn't need this cowl
as it sure won't work for the Jabiru application either. Anyone out there
need a beautiful new 2200 Jabiru pusher engine. I'm not sure what the
difference in a pusher and a tractor engine is but I think its accessories.
la...@lebanair.com I thought dealing with Rotax was as bad as it gets but
dealing with Jabiru Pacific isn't proving to be much better. Oh well it will
cost him some sales as it has Rotax.

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of DAN INA GLANDT
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 5:16 PM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Jabiru engine location


HI,
Would someone be willing to help verify a reasonable engine location for my
KR2s for a Jabiru 2200.  Data is as follows:
Ref line -   firewallFuselage levelTanks empty Nothing mounted forward of
firewallFirewall aft - all in place (seats, wings, canopy, turtle deck,
landing gear [conventional gear], tailTwo people in seats weighing 366 lbs
Look at rearward cg @ 15" behind leading edge.  Understand allowable range
is 8" to 16".
Firewall to wing leading edge is 14.5"
Weight on mains is 615#   17.625" behind ref lineWeight on tailwheel is 138#
158.25" behind ref line
Estimated weight of engine, cowl, prop, mount, battery, etc. is 173#
Total estimated weight is 173+615+138 = 926#
Solve for D,  the distance to the cg of engine, etc.  
615x17,625 + 138x158.25 - 173D = 929x(14.5+15)10839.375 + 21838.5 - 27405.5
= 173D
D = 30.48"
Firewall to engine attach points will be 23".   
The tank behind the firewall holds 10 gallons.  The 8" dia al wink tanks
(formed to a d shape) are mounted directly behind front spar.

Appreciate help and any suggestions.
Dan   
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KR> Jabiru engine location

[DAN INA GLANDT]

HI,
Would someone be willing to help verify a reasonable engine location for my 
KR2s for a Jabiru 2200.  Data is as follows:
Ref line -   firewallFuselage levelTanks empty Nothing mounted forward of 
firewallFirewall aft - all in place (seats, wings, canopy, turtle deck, landing 
gear [conventional gear], tailTwo people in seats weighing 366 lbs
Look at rearward cg @ 15" behind leading edge.  Understand allowable range is 
8" to 16".
Firewall to wing leading edge is 14.5"
Weight on mains is 615#   17.625" behind ref lineWeight on tailwheel is 138#   
158.25" behind ref line
Estimated weight of engine, cowl, prop, mount, battery, etc. is 173#
Total estimated weight is 173+615+138 = 926#
Solve for D,  the distance to the cg of engine, etc.  
615x17,625 + 138x158.25 - 173D = 929x(14.5+15)10839.375 + 21838.5 - 27405.5 = 
173D
D = 30.48"
Firewall to engine attach points will be 23".   
The tank behind the firewall holds 10 gallons.  The 8" dia al wink tanks 
(formed to a d shape) are mounted directly behind front spar.

Appreciate help and any suggestions.
Dan   

KR> Jabiru 3300 engine mount drawing wanted

[Dene Collett]

Hi Willie
Let me get in touch with the welder and I will get back to you shortly. 
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you only now but I only check my e 
mail every couple of days.
Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Projects cc
Port Elizabeth
South Africa
- Original Message - 
From: "Willie van der Walt" <touri...@intekom.co.za>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300 engine mount drawing wanted


This is the reply I have been waiting for! Please give me a quote to
manufature, as close to the fire wall as possible. I'll move the battery
inside. The cg is foreward now with the 70 litre tank. Thanks Dene

Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300 engine mount drawing wanted


 I have the KR firewall template and acccess to a jabiru case for
manufacturing the mount.
Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Projects cc
Port Elizabeth
South Africa


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KR> Jabiru 3300 engine mount drawing wanted

[Willie van der Walt]

This is the reply I have been waiting for! Please give me a quote to 
manufature, as close to the fire wall as possible. I'll move the battery 
inside. The cg is foreward now with the 70 litre tank. Thanks Dene

Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300 engine mount drawing wanted


 I have the KR firewall template and acccess to a jabiru case for 
manufacturing the mount.
Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Projects cc
Port Elizabeth
South Africa

KR> Jabiru 3300 engine mount drawing wanted

[Dene Collett]

Willie,
If you ordered a motor from Len you should get a CD with it. On the CD is 
the manual for the motor and installation instructions. Amongst the 
information is the dimensions for the part of the mount that mates with the 
motor. Once you have those it should be a simple matter of calculating how 
long the mount should be, make up a dummy firewall and position the motor 
ahead of it at the correct distance. Make sure of the thrust line and start 
cutting up some 4130 tubing. If you do not have a competent welder available 
give me a call. I have a guy rated and approved  by SAA to weld just about 
anything (4130, ally, inkaloy, titanium, stainless, etc) that makes up my 
mounts. I have the KR firewall template and acccess to a jabiru case for 
manufacturing the mount.
Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Projects cc
Port Elizabeth
South Africa
- Original Message - 
From: "Willie van der Walt" <touri...@intekom.co.za>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:08 PM
Subject: KR> Jabiru 3300 engine mount drawing wanted


I ordered a Jabiru 120Hp and urgently need a drawing to manufacture an
engine mounting for a standard KR2. Please help.
Regards
Willie


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KR> Jabiru 3300 engine mount drawing wanted

[Willie van der Walt]

I ordered a Jabiru 120Hp and urgently need a drawing to manufacture an 
engine mounting for a standard KR2. Please help.
Regards
Willie 

KR> JABIRU 120Hp motor Wanted

[Willie van der Walt]

I am looking for a 120Hp 3300 motor new or 2nd hand . must be in good 
condition with firewall foreward kit for a standard KR2. If anybody can help 
me please.

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul & Karen Smith" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:51 AM
Subject: KR> Rod balancing


http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2010-01_howto.asp

Interesting read.

Paul Smith
Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
pk.sm...@bigpond.net.au
http://kr2spacemodulator.blogspot.com/


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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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21:36:00

KR> Jabiru Engines

[Matt Hurley]

Phil wrote:
"But the work was done by Jabiru.
He has built is own design aircraft with a very close fitting cowl, he 
had to modify the front lower cowl when it returned from Jabiru. To my
understanding the pump protruded out further from the engine and made
contact with his cowl ???
His earlier problem was trying to get the engine to run hot enough, and 
low oil pressure, He did not have an oil cooler, but Jabiru insisted that 
the lack of oil pressure was due to lack of oil Cooler ?? So he fitted 
and oil cooler and the temp did not improve"

I have a 2200 Jabiru which I have rebuilt and even though some query emails are 
slow for response times, the data supplied has been very informative.
The oil pump has had several service letters published regarding the oil pump 
plate and possible cavitation of the oil pump at low tempretures. Jabiru have 
supplied replacement plates at no cost except postage (exchange). It may be 
possible the modified plate is thicker but even so...that is a very fine 
tolerance with the pump to cowl. Yes Jabiru insist on an oil cooler. I believe 
all Jab engines now require an oil cooler. Oil pressure cannot be maintained 
with overheated oil. Maybe an airflow issue on the above setup. Don't forget 
the engine by design is very young and any teething problems are being ironed 
out. Stand by our aussie matesit will happen!!!

Cheers
Matt

http://members.dodo.net.au/~hurley3/kr2.htm



_
ProPilots Network Email - http://webmail.propilots.net/

KR> Jabiru Engines and Matts Panel.

[Dan Heath]

I have a friend who has built one of those CHxxx ELSA planes and has the Jab
3300.  He has built 4 RVs prior to this and use either Cont or Lyc in them. 
He says this is the smoothest running engine.  If I had the money, that
engine would go on my KR.

I looked at your site and really liked the way you did your panel, in two
sections.  I am going to rebuild mine before the 2007 gathering, so I won't
be embarrassed by this one, and I think I am going to use that method. 
Anybody know of any CONS to doing it that way? 

PS: The real reason is because it is really not very functional.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2007 - KR Gathering
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
has begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
---Original Message---

From: Matt Hurley
http://members.dodo.net.au/~hurley3/kr2.htm

KR> Jabiru Engine

[Dan Heath]

Barry,

That must be one light weight engine to be that far out front.  I like your
pics. 

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics 
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building
has expired.
Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC
See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering

KR> Jabiru Engine

[Barry Kruyssen]

Jabiru 2200 weighs 60 kg wet for 85 hp and less than 15 Litre per hour while 
doing circuits.  I have to get my prop pitch reduced as I'm 200 rpm below where 
it should be.

Also My old cowling weghed 10.5 kg and my new one only weighs 3.5 kg 
(unpainted), and my old engine mount weighed 10.3 kg and the new one is 3.9 kg.

BUT the replacement undercarriage cost me 9.5 kg extra.

Regards
Barry Kruyssen
Cairns, Australia
RAA 19-3873 

k...@bigpond.com
http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm 

  - Original Message - 
  From: Dan Heath 

  That must be one light weight engine to be that far out front.  I like your
  pics. 

KR> Jabiru Engine+Diehl Gear

[Garrie Burnell]

Has anyone installed an Australian made Jabiru 2200 engine in there KR-2. I 
have a KR-2 built by someone else with a 1835VW engine. It works fine but as 
it is a VW it is very noisy. The Jabiru engine's are very quiet, whisper 
quiet and very reliable and the factory is just up the road from me. So, I 
am going remove the VW and install the Jabiru and also remove the fixed 
taildragger gear to go with the Diehl tricycle gear, which is yet to be 
purchased. My next question is, does anyone have Diehl tri-gear for sale and 
how does it stand up to roughish grass/dirt strips?
Thanks, Garrie.

_
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

KR> Jabiru Engine+Diehl Gear

[Gavin Donohoe]

HI Garrie,
  You must live close to me!! I'm in Gladstone QLD.
If you go to the SAAA web site and then look in the classifieds you  will
see someone in Victoria has a KR2 in boat stage for sale, it has Diehl gear
and a host of other things for sale that he won't separate, but it may be
worth a call to him.
Incidentally I'm looking for an engine too I was, and still may use the EJ22
Subaru engine, but I'm concerned with the weight !!! Maybe you know where I
can get an O200 Continental they're a fair bit lighter and easier to
install.

Gav



- Original Message -
From: "Garrie Burnell" <garrieburn...@msn.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 6:25 PM
Subject: KR> Jabiru Engine+Diehl Gear


> Has anyone installed an Australian made Jabiru 2200 engine in there KR-2.
I
> have a KR-2 built by someone else with a 1835VW engine. It works fine but
as
> it is a VW it is very noisy. The Jabiru engine's are very quiet, whisper
> quiet and very reliable and the factory is just up the road from me. So, I
> am going remove the VW and install the Jabiru and also remove the fixed
> taildragger gear to go with the Diehl tricycle gear, which is yet to be
> purchased. My next question is, does anyone have Diehl tri-gear for sale
and
> how does it stand up to roughish grass/dirt strips?
> Thanks, Garrie.
>
> _
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>
> ___
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>


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KR>Jabiru Engines

[Phillip Matheson]

  I was wondering if any one else has heard of Jabiru Aero Engines? I
checked out their web site and the have an 120hp eng listed for the KR1 and
KR2. I
---

Chris have a look at the Australian VW gear reduction engine, 1800, 80HP and
RG2000 100Hp but heaps more Torque and a lot cheaper.

http://www.vw-engines.com/


Phillip Matheson
mathe...@dodo.com.ao
Australia
VH PKR
See our engines  and kits at.
http://www.vw-engines.com/
http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/

KR>Jabiru Engines

[kr2sn50...@aol.com]

 I was wondering if any one else has heard of Jabiru Aero Engines? I 
checked out their web site and the have an 120hp eng listed for the KR1 and 
KR2. I 
don't remember all of the specs but I do remember that with all of the 
accessories its ramp weight was 178lbs wet.  

There was a guy asking about lycom eng parts. He should Check out these eng I 
believe they also build them in Australia as well as the U. S. 

Here is the link to the U.S. web site http://www.usjabiru.com/;>http://www.usjabiru.com/

Here is the link to the Australia site http://www.jabiru.net.au/;>http://www.jabiru.net.au/


Chris Theroux 
Gilbert, AZ

KR>Jabiru Engines

[Dan Heath]

I don't really know anything about them except that the name is very
familiar.  Thanks for the web site, the engines look very nice and I like
that they have the complete package.  Getting 80HP out of 132 pounds is a
real deal and what I would choose for a KR2, out of that group.

Their site is broken where you click to find out the specs, and hopefully,
prices. 

N64KR

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

da...@kr-builder.org

See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering

See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic
See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org

KR>Jabiru Engines

[Fisher, Dick]

The Jabiru 2200 80 HP costs about $9,200.00 and the
Jabiru 3300 120 HP is $12,900.00. They come complete
ready to install and are using the Bing carb.
There are many of them flying on the Sonex aircraft with
few reported problems.

Dick Fisher
Franklin, PA

KR>Jabiru Engines

[Bob Glidden]

There was a KR2 at sun-n fun this past year that had a Jabiru engine in it.I
went buy several times to try and talk to the guy,but it was all closed up
and when I went back later in the day he was gone.
- Original Message - 
From: <kr2sn50...@aol.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:42 AM
Subject: KR>Jabiru Engines


>  I was wondering if any one else has heard of Jabiru Aero Engines? I
> checked out their web site and the have an 120hp eng listed for the KR1
and KR2. I
> don't remember all of the specs but I do remember that with all of the
> accessories its ramp weight was 178lbs wet.
>
> There was a guy asking about lycom eng parts. He should Check out these
eng I
> believe they also build them in Australia as well as the U. S.
>
> Here is the link to the U.S. web site http://www.usjabiru.com/;>http://www.usjabiru.com/
>
> Here is the link to the Australia site http://www.jabiru.net.au/;>http://www.jabiru.net.au/
>
>
> Chris Theroux
> Gilbert, AZ
> ___
> see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html
>

KR>Jabiru Engines

[dpurdu...@caldwellmfgco.com]

Is there a weight comparison on the various engines somewhere?  It'd be
nice for CG planning purposes.








  "Bob Glidden" <glid...@ccrtc.com> 
   
  Sent by: To:  
 "KR builders and pilots" <kr...@mylist.net>   
  krnet-bounces+dpurduski=caldwellmfgco.comcc:  
   
  @mylist.net      Subject: 
 Re: KR>Jabiru Engines 


  10/13/2003 01:04 PM   
   
  Please respond to KR builders and pilots  
   






There was a KR2 at sun-n fun this past year that had a Jabiru engine in
it.I
went buy several times to try and talk to the guy,but it was all closed up
and when I went back later in the day he was gone.
- Original Message -
From: <kr2sn50...@aol.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:42 AM
Subject: KR>Jabiru Engines


>  I was wondering if any one else has heard of Jabiru Aero Engines? I
> checked out their web site and the have an 120hp eng listed for the KR1
and KR2. I
> don't remember all of the specs but I do remember that with all of the
> accessories its ramp weight was 178lbs wet.
>
> There was a guy asking about lycom eng parts. He should Check out these
eng I
> believe they also build them in Australia as well as the U. S.
>
> Here is the link to the U.S. web site http://www.usjabiru.com/;>http://www.usjabiru.com/
>
> Here is the link to the Australia site http://www.jabiru.net.au/;>http://www.jabiru.net.au/
>
>
> Chris Theroux
> Gilbert, AZ
> ___
> see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html
>


___
see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html

KR>Jabiru Engines

[Fisher, Dick]

Bob,

   The 80 HP is about 132 lbs and the 120 HP is 178 lbs.

Dick Fisher
Franklin, PA

> Is there a weight comparison on the various engines somewhere?  It'd be
>nice for CG planning purposes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

KR>Jabiru Engines

[Mac McConnell-Wood]

I understand Colin Hales who flew from England to Australia , used a Jabiru
in his KR. It would be good to hear his comments on the engine's
performance. Regards Mac   UK
- Original Message - 
From: "Fisher, Dick" <sone...@stargate.net>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: KR>Jabiru Engines


> The Jabiru 2200 80 HP costs about $9,200.00 and the
> Jabiru 3300 120 HP is $12,900.00. They come complete
> ready to install and are using the Bing carb.
> There are many of them flying on the Sonex aircraft with
> few reported problems.
>
> Dick Fisher
> Franklin, PA
>
>
> ___
> see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html