[lace] Re: Depiction of Lace-makers in 17th century Holland
On Feb 28, 2004, at 20:43, Carolyn Hastings wrote: I don't know if I'm off base here, but a friend and I spotted these paintings this summer, while we were visiting the Metropolitan Museum of Art: The Lacemaker, 1665-60 Nicolaes Maes (Dutch, 1634-1693) The Friedsam Collection, Bequest of Michael Friedsam, 1931 (32.100.5) http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp? dep=11&zoom=0&full=1&mark =1&item=32%2E100%2E5 The Lacemaker Bernhard Keil (Danish, 1624-1687) Bequest of Edward Fowles, 1971 (1971.115.2) http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp? dep=11&zoom=0&full=1&mark =4&item=1971%2E115%2E2 Um... could you be more specific? I know the Maes painting, so decided to "go and see" the Keil one. But, when I clicked on the URL above, what I got was Berlinghiero's "Madonna and Child" (13th c), this being the first of 2290 paintings in the dept of Eropean Paintings.. And, when I clicked on the Maes URL (just for the heck of it), I got the same woeful lady, and the same sad message, even though the two URLs are not identical... Since I can't do a "search" to save my life (keyed in all the details into "search" and got "no object found")... Could you tell me this: if I go for "view 50 at a time" option, which 50 will the Keil be in? - Tamara P Duvall Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Re: Depiction of Lace-makers in 17th century Holland
I don't know if I'm off base here, but a friend and I spotted these paintings this summer, while we were visiting the Metropolitan Museum of Art: The Lacemaker, 1665-60 Nicolaes Maes (Dutch, 1634-1693) The Friedsam Collection, Bequest of Michael Friedsam, 1931 (32.100.5) http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11&zoom=0&full=1&mark =1&item=32%2E100%2E5 The Lacemaker Bernhard Keil (Danish, 1624-1687) Bequest of Edward Fowles, 1971 (1971.115.2) http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11&zoom=0&full=1&mark =4&item=1971%2E115%2E2 Hope I'm not being redundant, as I've not read every response -- most of those I have read seem to relate to fictional accounts, this may give a different perspective (but maybe Devon has already given out this information!). Anyway, I love these paintings!! Best Regards, Carolyn Carolyn Hastings Stow, MA USA : > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Tamara P. Duvall > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 7:21 PM > To: lace Arachne > Subject: [lace] Re: Depiction of Lace-makers in 17th century Holland > > > On Feb 28, 2004, at 7:24, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Devon) wrote: > > > Since the person asked for a "depiction" does she mean a book or a > > picture? > > I have wondered about that myself... I think "sightings" of > lacemaking > in literature (mostly fiction, and mostly along the same lines of > misunderstanding that the worst of your press-persons showed at the > Hasbrouck Heights convention ) are somewhere on > Lori-the-Lacefairy' > webpage. As are many visual "sightings" which had been reported here > over the years. > > > At the Met last summer they had an engraving of a 17 > century lacemaker > > by an artist whose name I always get wrong. It is something like > > Golthius, or Goltzius. Tamara wrote it down! > > The engraving was on loan from the Rijksmuseum. > > The *exhibition* was of (Hendrik?) Goltzius (now you have me > wondering > about the spelling of the name ) and most of the work was his, but > the engraving in question was by a student of his, Jan Saenredam, one > of the series called "4 seasons"; there was nothing on the caption to > say which of the seasons was depicted, but I'm guessing "summer". > > I'm not sure how accurate it is for the 17th century, either. > The dates > given for Saenredam were: "ca 1565-1607", and I don't > remember any date > given for the picture itself; it could have been done before > 1600 (and, > in any case, he didn't "see" *much* of the 17th c -- less than a > decade...) > > - > Tamara P Duvall > Lexington, Virginia, USA > Formerly of Warsaw, Poland > http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/ > > - > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing > the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Re: Depiction of Lace-makers in 17th century Holland
I don't know if I'm off base here, but a friend and I spotted these paintings this summer, while we were visiting the Metropolitan Museum of Art: The Lacemaker, 1665-60 Nicolaes Maes (Dutch, 1634-1693) The Friedsam Collection, Bequest of Michael Friedsam, 1931 (32.100.5) http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11&zoom=0&full=1&mark =1&item=32%2E100%2E5 The Lacemaker Bernhard Keil (Danish, 1624-1687) Bequest of Edward Fowles, 1971 (1971.115.2) http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11&zoom=0&full=1&mark =4&item=1971%2E115%2E2 Hope I'm not being redundant, as I've not read every response -- most of those I have read seem to relate to fictional accounts, this may give a different perspective (but maybe Devon has already given out this information!). Anyway, I love these paintings!! Best Regards, Carolyn Carolyn Hastings Stow, MA USA : > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Tamara P. Duvall > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 7:21 PM > To: lace Arachne > Subject: [lace] Re: Depiction of Lace-makers in 17th century Holland > > > On Feb 28, 2004, at 7:24, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Devon) wrote: > > > Since the person asked for a "depiction" does she mean a book or a > > picture? > > I have wondered about that myself... I think "sightings" of > lacemaking > in literature (mostly fiction, and mostly along the same lines of > misunderstanding that the worst of your press-persons showed at the > Hasbrouck Heights convention ) are somewhere on > Lori-the-Lacefairy' > webpage. As are many visual "sightings" which had been reported here > over the years. > > > At the Met last summer they had an engraving of a 17 > century lacemaker > > by an artist whose name I always get wrong. It is something like > > Golthius, or Goltzius. Tamara wrote it down! > > The engraving was on loan from the Rijksmuseum. > > The *exhibition* was of (Hendrik?) Goltzius (now you have me > wondering > about the spelling of the name ) and most of the work was his, but > the engraving in question was by a student of his, Jan Saenredam, one > of the series called "4 seasons"; there was nothing on the caption to > say which of the seasons was depicted, but I'm guessing "summer". > > I'm not sure how accurate it is for the 17th century, either. > The dates > given for Saenredam were: "ca 1565-1607", and I don't > remember any date > given for the picture itself; it could have been done before > 1600 (and, > in any case, he didn't "see" *much* of the 17th c -- less than a > decade...) > > - > Tamara P Duvall > Lexington, Virginia, USA > Formerly of Warsaw, Poland > http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/ > > - > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing > the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] OIDFA Congress/Prague
Hello, Gentle Spiders, I'm wondering if someone closer to the "inner circles" can answer my question: If I put down for the cheapest lodging (double room, sharing the bathroom with another such, on campus), do I have to "provide" my own roommate, or will the organisers find me one? The person I was going to travel with can't go. DH says he's reached the age where he doesn't want to see another airplane or airport ever again, except from outside. DS, if he joins me for the trip, would share a room with his girlfriend (and, anyway, he's too old now to share with mother). Dollar value abroad being what it is, and me wanting to spend a couple of weeks in Poland beforehand (more expense), I'd as soon not have a private room for the -- almost -- 2 weeks... Yours, beginning to debate the wisdom of signing up via the website. It's something I've never done before and am leery of (given my 'puter-illiteracy), but my copy of the OIDFA Bulletin containing the application form has *yet* to arrive here (as does "Lace" from UK, via -- surely-- Bombay or Peking?) In the meantime, two of the workshops are already filled up (am I *ever* glad I'll be taking Lenka Suchanek's class in California next weekend... That was the workshop I originally planned to take in Prague, and that's one of the two that are marked as "full") - Tamara P Duvall Lexington, Virginia, USA. Sunny, and the temps went up to 60F (15C). Not too bad :) Formerly of Warsaw, Poland http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Depiction of Lace-makers in 17th century Holland
On Feb 28, 2004, at 7:24, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Devon) wrote: Since the person asked for a "depiction" does she mean a book or a picture? I have wondered about that myself... I think "sightings" of lacemaking in literature (mostly fiction, and mostly along the same lines of misunderstanding that the worst of your press-persons showed at the Hasbrouck Heights convention ) are somewhere on Lori-the-Lacefairy' webpage. As are many visual "sightings" which had been reported here over the years. At the Met last summer they had an engraving of a 17 century lacemaker by an artist whose name I always get wrong. It is something like Golthius, or Goltzius. Tamara wrote it down! The engraving was on loan from the Rijksmuseum. The *exhibition* was of (Hendrik?) Goltzius (now you have me wondering about the spelling of the name ) and most of the work was his, but the engraving in question was by a student of his, Jan Saenredam, one of the series called "4 seasons"; there was nothing on the caption to say which of the seasons was depicted, but I'm guessing "summer". I'm not sure how accurate it is for the 17th century, either. The dates given for Saenredam were: "ca 1565-1607", and I don't remember any date given for the picture itself; it could have been done before 1600 (and, in any case, he didn't "see" *much* of the 17th c -- less than a decade...) - Tamara P Duvall Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] New book
I have just checked the Amazon site here in UK and the New book due out on April 29th-30th Lace from the V&A museum by Clare Browne ISBN 1-85177-418-1 Published price £30 is on Amazon at £21. This book seems to be published in North America by Harry N. Abrams, as I have found it on the Chapters.Indigo site (Canadian bookseller) under ISBN #0810966239, publishing in May, 2004. That's good news, because if Abrams is putting it out then more booksellers here will stock it and most booksellers will be able to order it. Adele North Vancouver, BC (west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: 17. Cent. lacemaker
Hello, I forgot to tell you there is a painting from Vermeer "The look out of the window" where you see a woman sitting on her house steps an doing lace. This could be a proof what a Netherland lace-teacher me told that at that time "The golden Century" most women in the part called Holland could do lace-making just for fun as we today because they were rich. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] The Depiction of Lace-makers in 17th century Holland
Hello Lacefriends, The art-world didn't know much of the private life of Vermeer that's why I didn't like this book. In this book he is shown as a fanatic which didn't care of other peoples feeling. And there is not much in about life in the Netherlands of 17.cent. If there is somebody who is searching for this I would say look in your library if there is an english version of the exhibition book"Von (From) Frans Hals (till) bis Vermeer". It was the book from the Gemäldegalerie Berlin for the exhibition they had in 1984. In this book you find a lot about life in 17.cent in the Netherlands especially about women, because they had a strong position at that time. One paragraph is about Textile workers. If it is not to find let me know and I will try to tell a summary in english but not immediately because I am very busy at the moment with other things. If I should do so privately or over the list it's up to the group. Greetings from sunny but still cold Hamburg in Germany Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] The Depiction of Lace-makers in 17th century Holland
I have read Montupet's book, and it was quite fanciful. How accurate it is is hard to say. The heroine starts out as a down-trodden young woman who turns to a benevolent man who owns a lace shop. She has refined skills as a needle lacemaker and he hires her. From this beginning, she eventually marries extremely well, buys the lace shop, and invents bobbin lace. Seems a very unlikely scenario in those days... but it did make a good story. I suppose the conditions described could be accurate, in spite of what I considered a major flaw in the book (the scenario). Clay - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 7:24 AM Subject: Re: [lace] The Depiction of Lace-makers in 17th century Holland > I haven't read it, but I think the novel by Jean Montupet called the > Lacemaker is one of the few to actually deal with the lives of lacemakers. However, I > believe they are French Needlelacers of the 18th century. > Since the person asked for a "depiction" does she mean a book or a picture? > At the Met last summer they had an engraving of a 17 century lacemaker by an > artist whose name I always get wrong. It is something like Golthius, or > Goltzius. Tamara wrote it down! > The engraving was on loan from the Rijksmuseum. > Devon > > - > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: > unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] The Depiction of Lace-makers in 17th century Holland
I haven't read it, but I think the novel by Jean Montupet called the Lacemaker is one of the few to actually deal with the lives of lacemakers. However, I believe they are French Needlelacers of the 18th century. Since the person asked for a "depiction" does she mean a book or a picture? At the Met last summer they had an engraving of a 17 century lacemaker by an artist whose name I always get wrong. It is something like Golthius, or Goltzius. Tamara wrote it down! The engraving was on loan from the Rijksmuseum. Devon - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] New book
Hi All, I have just checked the Amazon site here in UK and the New book due out on April 29th-30th Lace from the V&A museum by Clare Browne ISBN 1-85177-418-1 Published price £30 is on Amazon at £21. A good saving if you are prepared to take the risk on the book without reviews etc. I know there is so much lace in the museum that no one ever sees and unless you have the time etc to be able to plan a private show , and also know what to ask for, it remains hidden. I was able to arrange a session with the curator, who turned out to be Clare Browne, some years ago now looking specifically for Spanish Frisado de Valladolid. They didn't think that they had any, but from my descriptions and an old exhibition (1915) I think, we found the most exquisite piece. I am pleased to say that is now on display, but it hadn't been seen for at least 50 years. I am hoping that the book contains some similar pieces. Jean in Cleveland U.K. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Out of print? and new book that looks interesting...
Hi Jane, Well done on finding that new book on Lace from the V&A. I for one will be looking for it when it is published on 29th April. (That's according to the V&A site) The info you copied from the Tesco site(I didn't know they sold books) seems to be the same as that from the museum flier. The price is the same. I wonder what Amazon will charge? Isn't it typical of museums though that something which I think will be of great interest to the lace making community has had little or no advanced publicity. Where were the adverts in the last Lace magazine, where are the handouts at the lace fairs etc. It's the same mentality that led the Northampton museum to run off twelve copies at a time of their pattern book when they mounted a lace exhibition the other year, so it was always out of stock. Jean in Cleveland U.K. On 25 Feb 2004, at 18:28, Jane Partridge wrote: However, a couple of entries further down I found a new one, "Lace", no author quoted, available for pre- order, due at the end of April. So I clicked the information button, and it came up as: " VA Lace Hardback 1-85177-418-1 Published: 30 Apr 2004 - Publisher: V & A Publications Available to pre-order, normally delivered on release date Tesco Price: £30.00 Summary: Clare Browne has selected examples across the full range of designs and fashions, to demonstrate the skill and variety lace-makers have achieved in their work. She explores the history of lace-making from its origins in the late fifteenth century, showing how patterns and techniques developed to serve the fashions of the day. Lace-makers became more adventurous as technical developments in needle and bobbin lace opened up new possibilities, while later sophistication in design brought astonishing naturalistic effects, particularly in the depiction of flowers and plants. Specially photographed details provide a feast for the eye as well as a survey of exquisite craftsmanship. This book will be additionally valuable as a record of important parts of a collection which by its nature is too fragile to be displayed. It also offers a wide-ranging survey of the art and craft of lace-making down the ages that will appeal to needlework enthusiasts, designers, students and all those interested in historical fashion." Looks as if it might be an interesting one to look out for, in a few months' time. V & A, of course, is the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. -- Jane Partridge - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
