Re: [lace] Re: pattern copyright and adaptations
It seems like an unpleasant surprise to buy a lace pattern and then find out you need another book to actually make the lace... I don't *sell* my lace patterns; I publish them, for free, wherever I think they'll fit best. Most of them are likely to be in Milanese, and therefore appeal to people who are already somewhat conversant with the technique. And, if they are, they're already familiar with at least one of the books - intimately enough to own it. Ah. That makes sense then. Where do you draw the line? I assume you're OK with learning something like roseground from a book, using it in your pattern and including a diagram - I guess I see Milanese braids as being on the side of roseground rather than full designs. Only if you made a bookmark which used nothing but a roseground, would it be *in the least* comparable to a bookmark which used only, say, Meander in braid. Hmm... So the copyright law depends on what setting I use the pattern in? That seems strange. Add then only slightly; roseground, under many different names and in different guises (rose-ground can be executed in a multitude of way, counting each pin and the connecting stitches) is common-place; Milanese braids aren't. If I use roseground in a pattern, I don't diagram it; I either assume that the lacemaker knows at least one way of making it, or else refer her to the Stott/Cook Book of stitches. What if you were writing a beginners' book? if I can just look at the lace (which isn't designed by the authors and isn't copyrighted) and figure out how it could be made (probably won't be the same as the diagram in the book, but will give the same effect or close), and draw a diagram of that, is that OK? Of course I have seen the diagram in the book, so it can be hard to tell how much I'm relying on my memory of that... Then, why bother? I've re-invented many a wheel in my time, but never *knowingly*; life's too short :) I like understanding things. I feel much better about making a piece of lace if the diagram makes sense to me, instead of just reproducing it step by step. This often requires changes - for example I don't understand the turning stitch in Milanese (i.e. why it's useful, no how it works), so I don't use it... did the authors of the book look at a made lace piece and come up with a diagram for the braids, or learn to make the braids from other lacemakers? Ah... Now, here's a lovely story about that... :) Last year in Ithaca, Pat Read taught a class, and was also one of the featured lecturers. She described - with amusing detail - how she and her student (Lucy Kinkaid) would travel to museums and, having obtained permission, would climb up on whatever was available/handy for a close look at the displayed laces. And make drawings/diagrams from those. Then go home and try to dissect the piece and reproduce it. Then go back to check if their results matched those in the museum... So the diagram contents are copyright. Need to be careful with it then. Thanks for the info. Weronika -- Weronika Patena Caltech, Pasadena, CA, USA http://vole.stanford.edu/weronika - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Pattern copyright
If making items for money raising is against copyright, then woe be tide to all those who purchase Family Circle magazine and the like for putting patterns in their magazine for just that purpose. Well, if they actually say they're for that purpose, that's clearly OK, but otherwise I don't think it matters whether the profits are going to charity or to you. However, if you ask the publisher about it, they may let you do it for charity. What if I bought yards and yards of fabric and made quilts to sell for the hospital bazaar. The fabric was actually printed panels. I guess selling them would be copyright. No, it wouldn't, since you bought them. You're pretty definitely allowed to sell anything you buy. Now if you had your own fabric printing machine (or however it's done), and made some of your own fabric with the same design and then sold it, that would be breach of copyright. How silly it would be for a lawyer to send a letter to the volunteer office at the hospital telling us to cease and desist selling the quilts to raise money to help save lives. You don't know how evil typical companies can be... They'll sue people and not care. I wouldn't worry about it. Look at ebay. There are lots of pillows and the like being sold with Disney and other copyrighted items made into items that people have made and are selling. But did they personally print the designs on the fabric or whatever, or did they buy them? Also, especially given the recent lace CD problem, I don't think eBay sellers can be given as a good example of what is OK under copyright law... This copyright issue comes up so often, it makes my head spin. It gets people so terrified to do anything and I think that's just ridiculous. Of course there's the stealers, but I would bet 99% of us are not out to rip off other's work, and I don't know anyone here who's become a millionaire making lace. True. I strongly doubt anyone's been sued over lace copyright in the last 50 years or so, but since this is such a small community, people know what others are doing and will become annoyed if they don't like it. I remember at least one long thread about someone stealing designs on Arachne. Weronika -- Weronika Patena Caltech, Pasadena, CA, USA http://vole.stanford.edu/weronika - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] pattern copyright and adaptations
But can putting a boasting picture, with proper credits to book and designer, on a non-commercial boasting website, really be described as *publishing* except in the very widest sense of the word, ie make generally known. Surely it's the modern equivalent of having it hanging on your wall where all your friends will see it, or in a key ring fob, or taking your finished work to a lace day. Not really. Most people don't have millions of people worldwide coming to their living room to see their work. And someone who sees my piece (at a lace day or on a key ring or on my wall) is not in a position to make copies at the click of a mouse button, in order to make it themselves. They would have to get it from me, and only with my permission. Actually, is it legal for you to lend them the actual lace piece to reproduce? Also, what about taking pictures and putting them in a physical photo album and showing them to people? If the copyright problem is not people seeing the image, but people copying it and using it to reproduce the design, then I think it's the copying people who are breaking the copyright law, not the person who made the picture. In fact, I don't think it's even OK to download pictures from people's websites without their permission... In which case the only way putting a picture on a website would harm the designer would be by making it easier to make an illegal copy, which I don't think is by itself an illegal activity, especially if you give a source of the pattern so that people know it's published and copyrighted. Weronika -- Weronika Patena Caltech, Pasadena, CA, USA http://vole.stanford.edu/weronika - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] copyright/photographs
Good morning All, This subject seems to involve so many twists and turns but just two points stick me. Someone (sorry I can't remember who and I accidentally deleted your message when I was trying to highlight a quote) said that people wouldn't design/create new patterns if they didn't think they could profit from them. That may be true in the 'outside' commercial world but yet again I am sure does not apply to Lacemaking. Even people who manage to publish books do not make a living wage out of them, when you consider the years it takes to prepare, design and make samples of all of the work. The vast majority of new lace designs are made just because we feel the urge nad if friends like them we give them a copy and perhaps send them to our Lace guild magazine. One the recent OIDFA tour we visited many museums and galleries. In some we were allowed to take photographs in others not. (It sometimes changed with the groups going round) This was particularly strict in the various schools we visited. People didn't appreciate that we wanted photos to show the folks back home what kind of lace was being made, not to copy the designs. I was goign to put some of my pictures up on the web today but now I'm not so sure. Jean in Cleveland U.K. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Greetings from Tartu, Estonia
Dear Fellow Spiders around the world, I thought it was time to say hello (or Tere! which is what Estonians say when you greet someone. We have been here for 4 weeks now our vehicle container aren't due for a few more weeks. Meanwhile our 2 sons will be starting school next week at the Tartu International School. (There are only 19 children from Grades 1 to 10.) So I'll be busy during the next 7 days getting the boys ready for school and entertaining my MIL who arrived yesterday from Adelaide via Sweden. I have seen some tatting in one of the many handicraft shops which sell items to tourists. I'm looking forward to seeing the photos taken at the OIDFA Congress by some of the Estonian attendees when I get to meet some of the members of the Estonian Bobbin Lace Society. Take care keep making lace, Pene Piip who is slowly adjusting to life in Tartu, Estonia. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyrights et al
As a commercial designer of lace, I am quite happy for people to show off the lace they have made from my patterns and especially I enjoy seeing them give me credit for the design, but what I am not happy with is one person buying a pattern and then making tens of copies to distribute to their friends. Now that is the true meaning of copyright theft as it robs me of the few pennies I make for all my hard work in designing the pattern and working the sample to produce a pattern that others will want to make. I don't need to tell you how many hours that takes! Regards Rikki (not my real name, just the one I use to preserve my anonymity) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Ithaca Lace Days
From: Jane Viking Swanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm just wondering if anybody has heard about their classes at the Ithaca (NY) Lace Days? My notification came last night. I got Lohr's class on point ground butterflies. The pricking and photo of the class project came, too. It's **gorgeous**!!! Gotta get supplies (takes several colors of thread, several kinds of pin). Robin P. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA http://www.pittsburghlace.8m.com/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] July 2004 Anna Magazine
Hi all, I didn't think until yesterday that I should have bought the July issue of Anna. I like to get the July and Dec issues as there is usually Bobbin Lace in them. My usual source of the magazine isn't carrying it anymore and the deli already had the August. I have thought of a couple more place to try but my question is: Was there anything in bobbin lace worth the effort? Thanks, Irene - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Auction pictures
OK, If it took 10 women, 10 years to make one of those shawls then if you put that into today and todays pay checks that would mean each shawl cost how much to make? Let's see I will give it a guess that women make about $30,000.00 a year, more or less, times ten is $300,000.00. Right? That times 10 years is $3,000,000.00, right? I can bet that is not what those shawls and those skirts are going to sell for. I am going to be interested in see who buys them and for how much. I hope they know how valuable those huge pieces of lace really are. Karisse Central TX I don't know about the rest of you but those pictures of the lace put up for auction makes me drool. I wonder how long it took to make those wonderful Chantilly skirts and how many women worked on them i was told it took ten lacemakers ten years to make one of those huge 19th century chantilly shawls ... and each worked 10cmx20cm lengths that were then put together with an invisible stitch by another specialised worker . i saw all this very well explained in the Chantilly museum . ps. i love Chantilly lace ! and Chantilly cream but that's another story ... dominique from Paris . - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Textile Books from Prague
Dear Lacemakers, Leonard and Avital wrote about the paperback book we were able to buy at OIDFA-Prague Laces from the Colections of the Jewish Museum in Prague. This was 116 pages, many in color, with dated gold laces going back to the 1600's! Anyone interested in gold lace would probably benefit from this book, because the pieces to which the lace are attached bear dates! $15 US, ISBN 80-85608-86-3. If you have a stronger interest in textiles, I want to tell you about the other book that was available for purchase: Textiles from Bohemian and Moravian Synagogues. Now, this is a large and heavy book. I weighed myself with and without the book in my arms, and it is at least four pounds, which explains the high shipping cost of $30 to the US. It is in English, 376 pages, hardback in a case, measures 9 x 12 1/2, has 500 full-color illustrations of textile items (100 full-page), $59 US, ISBN 80-85608-65-0. I particularly appreciated an opportunity to read about their methods of restoration, conservation and storage and about identifying the collection points and the actual details of history surrounding the textiles. People who work with any ecclesiastical collections may find textiles to compare, because many religious groups used the finest that were available. There are special chapters on Ottoman and Chinese textiles. Under Acknowledgements is a special thanks to Clare Browne and Linda Parry of the VA, London, who helped to determine the precise dates of some of the fabrics. As a reminder, Browne is the author of the new lace book from the VA and Parry has written books about canvas work (embroidery) and William Morris. Both have written about costumes in the VA collections. Rather than write more, since lace is but a part of this book, I will provide (below) the web site, where you can find the shop listed on the left side of the second page. You can then read about all the books, and how to order. When you send your check by mail, I recommend you request copies of the two brochures: Laces from the Collections of the Jewish Museum in Prague and For Dignity and Adornment - Textiles from Bohemian and Moravian Synagogues. These give nice overviews - in English. You will notice there is also a CD! http://www.jewishmuseum.cz To e-mail the office: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeri Ames in Maine USA Lace and Embroidery Resource Center - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] One Designer's Input on Her Copyrights
Friendly Spiders, On the off-chance you're not completely bored with this topic... here are MY answers to frequently asked copyright questions for MY book An Introduction to Chrysanthemum Lace and other teaching materials. * Can I make copies of the prickings for my own use? YES! Make zillions, I don't care. Wallpaper your bathroom with them--whatever you do with them for YOU is fine. * Can I make copies of the prickings and give them to friends? NO; If you're feeling generous, buy them the book. * Can I make copies of the prickings and give them to my students? No, see above. If you're teaching, you should be either 1) teaching from a book or materials you have each student purchase, or 2) teaching from materials you have developed personally. * Can I put photos of lace I've worked from your books on my web site: YES, and if you're a sweetie, you'll put the name of the designer too. KANT magazine publishes patterns with two names: Designed by XXX and Realization by XXX. While Realization is an admittedly awkward translation, it does get across that the piece was a team effort. * Can I sell lace that I've made from the patterns in your book? Please contact me and discuss it with me in person--my rule of thumb is that if you're planning on selling more than five pieces of lace by my design, then we need to work out a royalty arrangement, whereby I get to be part of your success. Onesy-twosy sales don't bother me at all, but it is always nice to be asked. * If I make a new design using the ideas and petals from your book, is it mine? If you design it, it's yours. * How much do I have to change something to make it mine? There is no hard-and-fast rule here; millions of dollars in lawyers' fees are spent on this very question daily. Search your heart, and if you have doubts, then change it some more. My advice: send me a copy and ask me if I think its different enough. Since there is virtually no money to be made form lace, I think you'll find designers more interested in having people create new work than aggressively protecting their own. * Can I give away copies of pages in your book, if it's for a non-profit organization? No; again, if you want to donate something to the organization, buy them the book and donate it. My time is not yours to donate. * Do you own the copyright for Chrysanthemum Lace? Absolutely not. It was around long before me, and hopefully will be around long after. I own copyrights only on the patterns I have designed in my book and the text and illustrations. * What about the pattern in your book not designed by you? Can I copy it for friends? NO! As part of the book, it is covered by my copyright; as part of licensing arrangement, Ms Verbeke-Billet gets a royalty for every instance of that pattern I sell. * Can I copy instructions from your classes for others? No. Please contact me, and I will happily sell you a copy for your friend for very modest fee. * I just want one pattern out of your book, and not the whole book. Can I copy just one page from a friend's book? No. The number of pages is irrelevant. Please contact me, and I'll make arrangements to sell you the one pattern for a very modest fee. If I'm in a good mood I may just give it to you, but it remains my choice to give my rights away, not yours. Bottom Line: Lacemaking is a team effort between designer and lace maker; good team members communicate with each other. When in doubt, contact the author and ask them personally. I have met no author or designer who would be bothered by this type of inquiry. PS: the most frequently asked question: Your book is selling really well--are you making a lot of money on it? NO! EMPHATICALLY NO!!! Writing books is excelled only by lacemaking in its ability to turn vast amounts of time into excessively small amounts of money. I'm just in it for the cute boys. But, come to think of it... Cathy Belleville Los Altos CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.bitbetter.com/lace - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] pattern copyright and adaptations
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:24:23 -0700, Weronika wrote: Which means: I can put a picture on my website, but not the pricking, and I should name the source - correct? Not in my opinion. Many people do this, but I believe it is a breach of copyright. A completed piece of lace is a 'derivative work' from the pricking, and is subject to just the same copyright limitations as a straight copy of the pricking. Hmmm... You mean the designer of the pattern actually holds copyright on the piece of lace I made, and images of it??? That seems very strange! The lace no, but images of it, yes. -- The future will be better tomorrow. - Dan Quayle Steph Peters, Manchester, England [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scanned by WinProxy http://www.Ositis.com/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Intent of copyright law
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:07:36 -0400, Tamara wrote: I can't help but wonder... Isn't there a difference between a website created mainly for commercial purposes, and one one - like what Jane's thinking of - which is a brag one? Morally, yes. But so far as the law is concerned, no difference whatsoever. The application of copyright laws does not depend on whether money is being made. It might make some difference to the amount of damages if a case came to court, but not being commercial doesn't make something otherwise not forbidden into something permitted. Non-commercial websites can have significant consequences for creators of copyright work. Consider a musician who owns the copyright to a piece of music he wrote. If he lets it be used on web pages without the pages acknowledging his copyright, then (in some countries) his right to control the use of the music will be reduced or even eliminated. By not enforcing his copyright against hobby users, he will be in a very difficult position trying to sue a big company that decides to use his music for a commercial purpose, such as in an advertisement. Or, perhaps the answer is in publishing only low-resolution, fuzzy and indistinct photos (the better to hide the mistakes g), so that not only nobody could reproduce anything from the photo, but the designerr of the piece would never recognize it? :) Quite apart from being pointless, this still doesn't make any forbidden usage into a permitted one. Sorry Tamara, these are wishful thinking about what you would like the law to be, not what it is. -- The future will be better tomorrow. - Dan Quayle Steph Peters, Manchester, England [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scanned by WinProxy http://www.Ositis.com/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] intent of copyright law
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:18:01 -0700 (PDT), Bev wrote: Steph wrote: When someone buys a pricking (whether in a book or as a single piece of paper) they buy the right to make lace from the pricking. However they do not buy the right to copy in any other way. That's why putting a picture of finished lace on a website is a breach of copyright if From what you say, my bookmark made from a purchased pattern - a pricking - is a 'copy' of that pricking? This is, to me, an unusual definition of the word 'copy.' I would consider it a 'use' of the pattern (of the pricking) - that I have bought the right to use the pattern - and the result is *my* piece of lace (made from the purchased pattern). I've used 'copy' as shorthand for the full wording which extends to reproduction in whole or in part in any medium, electronic or otherwise, or deriving any work from the copyrighted work. By making lace you are deriving a work in thread from the pricking. The topic is getting worn out but I'd like to make another point (silly as it might be) - if I were to sew an outfit from a purchased dress pattern, post a picture of myself on a website, a photo of me wearing this garment at a lace event (for instance) ought I have asked the pattern company permission to do so? In theory yes. In practice pattern companies don't bother about this sort of usage. But put that dress on a model in a fashion magazine and they will sue. -- The future will be better tomorrow. - Dan Quayle Steph Peters, Manchester, England [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scanned by WinProxy http://www.Ositis.com/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] copyright and Romanian lace
Dear Spiders, I am perfectly happy for people who have purchased my Romanian Point Lace book to make any of the items from the patterns. That is the purpose of the book. I expect them to photo-copy the patterns for their own personal use. I would be very unhappy if they sold the finished items and profited from them. I would be even more unhappy if anyone copied my diagrams and used them in another publication. I was very pleased that Sulachona had made a doily from the lace photo without a drawn pattern. I considered it a compliment in that she had understood the technique by studying the book. Years ago I attended a class on cloth doll making tutored by Anne Dyer. She gave us the patterns as part of the class. I asked her if she minded people reproducing her dolls and she replied, no, if three people see an idea it is in the Public Domain and it would inspire her to produce something else. Angela Thompson back home at last after an adventurous stay in USA after Harrisburg IOLI. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Auction pictures
Your math was correct, Karisse, but I'm afraid your assumptions were not so accurate! While many women make $30K a year, those who are artists, weavers, spinners, quiltmakers - in other words, people who are creating nice things - more often than not do not get close to that amount of money. Only if (by some fluke) they become well known and their creations are in high demand can they get what their time should be worth. Still... at even HALF of what you suggested, those shawls are worth a fortune!! Clay - Original Message - From: Karisse Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:46 PM Subject: [lace] Auction pictures OK, If it took 10 women, 10 years to make one of those shawls then if you put that into today and todays pay checks that would mean each shawl cost how much to make? Let's see I will give it a guess that women make about $30,000.00 a year, more or less, times ten is $300,000.00. Right? That times 10 years is $3,000,000.00, right? I can bet that is not what those shawls and those skirts are going to sell for. I am going to be interested in see who buys them and for how much. I hope they know how valuable those huge pieces of lace really are. Karisse Central TX I don't know about the rest of you but those pictures of the lace put up for auction makes me drool. I wonder how long it took to make those wonderful Chantilly skirts and how many women worked on them i was told it took ten lacemakers ten years to make one of those huge 19th century chantilly shawls ... and each worked 10cmx20cm lengths that were then put together with an invisible stitch by another specialised worker . i saw all this very well explained in the Chantilly museum . ps. i love Chantilly lace ! and Chantilly cream but that's another story ... dominique from Paris . - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] making laces from the Idrija book
Hi everyone, and anyone who has made pieces from the 'Cook and Tratnik' book on Idrija Lace - I've made a few of the earlier patterns on my cookie pillow and midlands bobbins, now debating if my bolster could be used or will I be doing battle g - would appreciate hearing from anyone who has made a piece or two, and can tell me what sort of pillow and bobbins you used? I've decided to use continentals because they'll hold more thread than my assortment of mids. bye for now Bev in Sooke, BC (west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyright, my two penn'th
My understanding of copyright is that you are not permitted to *reproduce* something which is in copyright without permission. In UK, if you own a book, you are allowed to make copies for your own personal use, which means that if the book shows a short length of lace pattern you can make several copies to go around a roller pillow, or make 4 copies of a corner to make a square, plus the (enlarged) working copy which you doodle over etc. Reproduction of a lace pattern, or a dressmaking pattern, could be by photocopying, photography (film or digital), electronic scanning, tracing or skilled detailed drawing. Reproduction of a cookery recipe, or instructions for making the lace or dress could be by photocopying, photography (film or digital), electronic scanning, writing, typing, word processing or audio recording. Using the pattern/recipe to make a piece of lace, a dress or a cake is not reproduction of the original, but using the original as a tool. I can't see that your own photo of the lace you have made, the dress you have sewn, or the cake you have baked is a breach of copyright if you choose to publish it on a personal website. I design most of my own lace patterns, or if I use someone else's it is generally adapted quite a bit. That's because I like being creative and get more satisfaction from working my own designs. Over the years I've made a few pennies from selling BL patterns, but the financial return in consideration of the hours spent designing and making is very minimal. I also know that a lot of people will share patterns - 'we'll buy one each and make copies'. Whilst that's illegal it's hardly worth making a fuss about. Only if I saw someone selling my patterns without permission would I get upset. If I go to a lace day and see one of my designs on a pillow, or finished and on display I get a kick of pride knowing that I designed it, and I take it as a compliment that someone else liked the pattern enough to make it up. Brenda http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paternoster/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Torchon Zig zag trails
All this talk about copyright and designing . I am designing my own (very wide for me) edge to make up in my (previously reported) variegated thread - I've tried out a sample, and it looks great. My question is this - what's your opinion on the width of a zig zag trail, given that if you just work it continuously, the zig will be one pair of passives less than the zag. This irritates me (I find it better to let things like this irritate me than things in that crazy world outside my door). So I usually use the inner pin of the v twice. This corrects the number of passives. But then this makes the weave at that point more dense than the rest of the trail. I'm not likely to change my design, I'm just interested to hear what others may have to say on the subject. BTW, it took me some considerable time when learning to realise the difference in width between the zig and the zag!!! Noelene in Cooma [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nlafferty/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Portugal
I'm moving this from Lace Chat, because it's really about lace. Peniche is a fishing and lace-making town on the coast of Portugal, north of Lisbon. It's wonderful. There are a couple of lace schools, including one next to the tourist information centre (at least it was there when I visited in 1999). There's a statue of a lacemaker in the main square, lace for sale in many shops and in the tourist information centre, and a wonderful display of Peniche lace in the museum in the fortress. A big lace festival is held in July and there is a book about the lace, with 11 prickings. It's by Hill and Ramos, 'Rendas de Bilros de Peniche/Bobbin lace of Peniche' published by Barbara Fay. Visitors to Portugal should not miss Peniche! On Friday, August 27, 2004, at 08:10 PM, Faye Owers wrote: Does anyone know of any particular areas of Portugal that make lace? Margot Walker in Halifax on the east coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Portugal and lace
On Aug 27, 2004, at 19:56, Margot Walker wrote, in response to Faye Owers: Peniche is a fishing and lace-making town on the coast of Portugal, north of Lisbon. It's wonderful. Another lacy place in Portugal seems to be Villa do Conde. I have no idea where it is, but it seems to have a lace musum. There's a website: http://www.mrbvc.net/ but I don't know any Portugese... :( --- Tamara P Duvall http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) Healthy US through The No-CARB Diet: no C-heney, no A-shcroft, no R-umsfeld, no B-ush. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Ithaca Lace Days - Yessss!
On Aug 27, 2004, at 9:35, Panza, Robin wrote: My notification came last night. I got Lohr's class on point ground butterflies. The pricking and photo of the class project came, too. It's **gorgeous**!!! Mine came today, and I too got my first choice: Rosa Libre: A New Flower Lace, with Cathy Belleville. When the original invitation to the Lace Days brochure came, this workshop was advertised as the first in the world, which is why I was keeping not just my fingers but everything else crossed, for the success. Doubtless, that's why I've been having so little luck with my current designs - now I can un-cross everything and go back to work in contentment :) There were no photos of the class project included in my mailing, but everyone can see some baby exampless on: http://www.bitbetter.com/lace/rosalibre.htm Only, the baby has shot up into the toddler stage while I wasn't looking; according to my class description/supply list, the two flower motifs and the leaf motif have been joined by a butterfly... :) Oooo, happy dance --- Tamara P Duvall http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) Healthy US through The No-CARB Diet: no C-heney, no A-shcroft, no R-umsfeld, no B-ush. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Ithaca Lace Days
At 08:45 PM 8/26/2004, Jane Viking Swanson wrote: Hi All, I'm just wondering if anybody has heard about their classes at the Ithaca (NY) Lace Days? I can't find my copy of the brochure and I can't remember when they will send out notification. Needless to say I'm quite anxious G. Got mine yesterday. I got into Ulrike's butterfly class. Yippee! Susan L. Benzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM id = slobenzer It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: One Designer's Input on Her Copyrights
On Aug 27, 2004, at 14:30, Cathy Belleville wrote: KANT magazine publishes patterns with two names: Designed by XXX and Realization by XXX. While Realization is an admittedly awkward translation, Rendition might be better? I usually put interpretation on mine, but that's because I tend to twiddle, however minutely, with the existing patterns (even my own g). * Can I sell lace that I've made from the patterns in your book? What about give away? Still the same rule - one's OK, for multiples ask? * Can I copy instructions from your classes for others? No. Please contact me, and I will happily sell you a copy for your friend for very modest fee. Can I ask you -now - to bring the pattern you taught last year? I watched my roomie (Robin) work on it, and would like to twiddle with it myself, but I don't think it's in the book. I didn't realize it was possible to buy the pattern. And I sure wish other teachers had the same attitude, and would make class patterns/instructions available for sale... For somewhere around 25-30% of what they get per classroom head (since their personal attention to the lacemaker won't be involved and the instructions - based on the personal attention would, likely, be more sketchy than ones in a book, intended for a lone lacemaker). I would be particularly happy, if such an option was available this year in Ithaca; although I got my first choice of class (your Rosa Libre), I was unable to clone myself into 3, and get the 2nd and 3rd as well... And I'm greedy. Last year in Ithaca and this year in Prague, I avoided visiting the classrooms where courses which I'd have *also* liked to have taken were taught; why give myself an ulcer, when it was hard enough to decide how to prioritze them in the first place? I only visit classes which I wouldn't have taken anyway (usually needlelece), where I can oooh and aaah over the results (and teacher displays) without trying to keep the green tinge off my face... I'm just in it for the cute boys. There weren't any included in my copy of the Chrysanthemum book; is there an update? Do you hold the copyright on those also, or can we share the pattern? Yours, still light-headed from getting her Ithaca notification, --- Tamara P Duvall http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) Healthy US through The No-CARB Diet: no C-heney, no A-shcroft, no R-umsfeld, no B-ush. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] copyright
Weronika If you have concerns about copyright and are thinking about putting adaptations up on a website, you really SHOULD go to the U.S. Copyright office website and review it very carefully. They will give you a fair amount of guidance. http://www.copyright.gov/ I'm not a lawyer but I can read instructions and for someone who is doing adaptations it is really essential that you understand the ground rules. And rather than get the rules from hearsay or somebody's opinion, you really should get it from the horse's mouth. Many years ago I designed some corners for patterns in the DMC Encyclopedia of Needlework and a Cluny pattern from the lace school at Le Puy. I have never published or sold those patterns because, even though the corner was entirely my own idea and a substantial addition to the original, I still didn't think I should. If you are clever enough to make substantial additions to a pre-existing pattern or adapt it to a different purpose, you sound like an incipient designer-in-the-making. You probably have it in you to design original patterns on your own. Perhaps it is time to begin. Count the adaptations as a step on the learning curve. Lorelei - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] large bobbins
Weronika I have some large Danish bobbins, about 5 inches long. They are intended for use with thicker than usual threads. They might not break fine thread, but they are clunky and one would normally not want to use them unless necessary. They seem to work with pearl cotton size 8 or thicker, linen 20/2, or perhaps fingering weight wool. Any of these yarns are so thick that most normal size bobbins could not hold enough to make any substantial length of lace, and you'd be constantly replenishing your bobbins. Also normal weight bobbins would not give enough weight to tension these thicker threads sufficiently. So if you are planning to work with thick threads, the larger Danish bobbins are useful to have on hand. Otherwise not, I think. Lorelei - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] One Designer's Input on Her Copyrights
In a message dated 27/08/2004 19:28:33 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Can I make copies of the prickings for my own use? YES! Make zillions, I don't care. Wallpaper your bathroom with them--whatever you do with them for YOU is fine. snipped PS: the most frequently asked question: Your book is selling really well--are you making a lot of money on it? NO! EMPHATICALLY NO!!! Writing books is excelled only by lacemaking in its ability to turn vast amounts of time into excessively small amounts of money. I'm just in it for the cute boys. But, come to think of it... Cathy Belleville Cathy, Thank you for your thoughts on this - I have to say that for the first time the subject of copyrights has made me laugh. I have pushed your book up my list of wants simply because it will make a wonderful alternative to tiling the bathroom. On a more serious note, the key thing here is what you've said - 'writing books is excelled only by lacemaking in it's ability to turn vast amounts of time into excessively small amounts of money' If I wanted to be a millionaire from my craft, then I would make something else. Regards Liz in London I'm back blogging my latest lace piece - have a look by clicking on the link or going to http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: [lace] intent of copyright law (shortish)
Hi everyone - to prolong the discussion only a bit more: or deriving any work from the copyrighted work. By making lace you are deriving a work in thread from the pricking. No, you are using the pricking for its intended use - a derivation would be altering the pricking, or taking elements of the original lace and constructing another pricking, and calling that 'original' (which, in conventional lace terms, I think we call 'adapted' - of no real consequence unless someone tries to profit by this adapted version) But put that dress on a model in a fashion magazine and they will sue. Anybody can sue anyone for any thing (at any time) - if there is to be a case, it would depend on intent (and $). Apart from that, let's continue to share our lace accomplishments with pride, in our lace mags. and newsletters, and at our websites - credit the designer where known, or specify if it isn't an original design (unknown source seems to cover a lot - then if someone recognizes it they can tell you the source..). bye for now Bev in Sooke, BC (west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Asking for copies was :One Designer's Input on Her Copyrights
In a message dated 28/08/2004 02:32:39 GMT Standard Time, Tamara writes: Rendition might be better? I usually put interpretation on mine, but that's because I tend to twiddle, however minutely, with the existing patterns (even my own g). Now why doesn't it surprise me that Tamara twiddles with even her own patterns - we are lace makers we just can't help fiddling around with patterns, it's what we do - I'm trying to explain to the Aussie that just because it looks like that on the photograph does not mean it will come out anything like it! Here is another thought - when I first started making lace and knew no better, I was given a pricking from someone else's pattern - it was something someone had bought in Brussels and then said I could have a copy by pricking through the pattern (an old fashioned way of taking a copy). Then a few months later I was making the lace at a re-enactment and this woman came up and started talking to me and asked me 5 or 6 times if she could have a copy of the pattern and actually started to write out her address for me to send it too. I was young and foolish and sent her a copy. But I know now that whilst I was wrong to accept the copy myself in the first place I was very wrong to give in to this woman. And she wasn't just wrong but RUDE to insist on hassling me until I gave in. Now, with many of the books I want out of print (and costing the earth second hand) and the new ones coming in at high prices I am protecting copyrights out of sheer meanness. I feel that if I've paid all that money for a pattern why on earth should I give it to someone else for, essentially free. If they really wanted it as much as they are windging on about then they should go and buy it. Arguements like - oh I only wanted the one pattern from that book and it's 25 pounds are stupid - get it out of the library then, you are allowed to copy the one pattern - but they even windge about paying the 20p to photocopy it - you could just quickly scan that in for me. Actually, one of the reasons I don't have a flat bed scanner (mine is part of my printer / fax machine which takes single pages only and not books) is that I can't just scan it in for anyone and I still trog off to the photocopying machine in the library with my books and pay my 5p per copy, so I can't just do one copy. I have a simple rule when I start a pattern - I make two copies. I put the original away for safe keeping as a master. I destroy one when I make a pricking out of it and the other I scribble all over with notes. I turned up at a lesson once with my copies in order to scribble on them whilst my students were busy (I do sometimes get lessons when they actually don't need to ask too many questions and we can chat whilst we all get on with our lace!!) and one of my students had the gall to actually say 'Oh, you've got more than one copy - give me one' I explained that one was for making the pricking and one was for writing on and she told me to give her one and make another copy for myself. It was the start of the end of a friendship! Yes, I know that money is often tight - I'm lucky at this time that I can go to a lace fair and buy pretty much what I want but it wasn't always that way - so I used to save up for the fairs and allocate so much to each type of thing I wanted and if I couldn't afford it I didn't buy it. What I did was make a wish list of things I wanted and could afford and then my mum, aunt and grandmother would give me money before the lace fair to buy things off the list for birthdays and Xmas. Now, every book and pricking that I own has a link to a fair, a present and a person. Mum used to take my list to the local discount book store and see if there were any books there I wanted or simply didn't have - she got me over 15 that way over a period of 10 years and I treasure every one as my mum has no idea what she was buying or if it was relevant but as I've progressed in my lacemaking I've needed the books (the first she bought me was on Withof Lace about 3 months after I started making lace, then Binche!, then Honiton - boy am I grateful for them now!) I also found that if I really wanted a pattern, or actually, supply even, then I could ask a supplier to put one aside for me for a month or two and buy it when I could afford it or to save on postage - pick it up at a fair. Most single patterns are no more than a couple of pounds - is that really so expensive - I've just looked on the Biggins site and most of Vivienne's pattern are about £1.85. There are patterns I've wanted but can't get now but I'll live. But I know now, I won't be pressurised again into giving a copy to a complete stranger because they are making a scene infront of me. I also wonder if she ever made that lace of was one of those people who just has to have a pattern because no one else she knew had it. A bit like that woman I taught who just wanted to look clever (wear glasses for heaven's sake that'll work better)
[lace-chat] Greetings from Tartu, Estonia
Dear Fellow Spiders around the world, I thought it was time to say hello (or Tere! which is what Estonians say when you greet someone. We have been here for 4 weeks now our vehicle container aren't due for a few more weeks. Meanwhile our 2 sons will be starting school next week at the Tartu International School. (There are only 19 children from Grades 1 to 10.) So I'll be busy during the next 7 days getting the boys ready for school and entertaining my MIL who arrived yesterday from Adelaide via Sweden. I have seen some tatting in one of the many handicraft shops which sell items to tourists. I'm looking forward to seeing the photos taken at the OIDFA Congress by some of the Estonian attendees when I get to meet some of the members of the Estonian Bobbin Lace Society. Take care keep making lace, Pene Piip who is slowly adjusting to life in Tartu, Estonia. To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] ANSWERING MACHINE IN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL
Have you ever telephoned a company and got a computerised voice telling you which number to press? This was sent to me by my DB (dear boyfriend) from a golf list. ANSWERING MACHINE IN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL Hello and welcome to the Mental Health Hot Line. If you are obsessive-compulsive, press 1 repeatedly If you are co-dependent, please ask someone to press 2 for you. If you have multiple personalities, please press 4,5 and 6. If you are paranoid, we know who you are and what you want. Stay on the line so we can trace the call. If you are delusional, press 7 and your call will be transferred to the mother ship. If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a small voice will tell you which number to press. If you are a manic-depressive, it doesnt matter which number you press, no one will answer. If you have bipolar disorder, please leave a message after the beep or before the beep, or after the beep. Please wait for the beep. If you have short term memory loss, please press 9. If you have short term memory loss, please press 9. If you have short term memory loss, please press 9. If you have short term memory loss, please press 9. If you have low self esteem, please hang up. All operators are too busy to talk to you. If you are menopausal, hang up, turn on the fan, lie down and cry. You won t be crazy for ever. Jane Bawn email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Copyright - my two penn'th
My understanding of copyright is that you are not permitted to *reproduce* something which is in copyright without permission. In UK, if you own a book, you are allowed to make copies for your own personal use, which means that if the book shows a short length of lace pattern you can make several copies to go around a roller pillow, or make 4 copies of a corner to make a square, plus the (enlarged) working copy which you doodle over etc. Reproduction of a lace pattern, or a dressmaking pattern, could be by photocopying, photography (film or digital), electronic scanning, tracing or skilled detailed drawing. Reproduction of a cookery recipe, or instructions for making the lace or dress could be by photocopying, photography (film or digital), electronic scanning, writing, typing, word processing or audio recording. Using the pattern/recipe to make a piece of lace, a dress or a cake is not reproduction of the original, but using the original as a tool. I can't see that your own photo of the lace you have made, the dress you have sewn, or the cake you have baked is a breach of copyright if you choose to publish it on a personal website. I design most of my own lace patterns, or if I use someone else's it is generally adapted quite a bit. That's because I like being creative and get more satisfaction from working my own designs. Over the years I've made a few pennies from selling BL patterns, but the financial return in consideration of the hours spent designing and making is very minimal. I also know that a lot of people will share patterns - 'we'll buy one each and make copies'. Whilst that's illegal it's hardly worth making a fuss about. Only if I saw someone selling my patterns without permission would I get upset. If I go to a lace day and see one of my designs on a pillow, or finished and on display I get a kick of pride knowing that I designed it, and I take it as a compliment that someone else liked the pattern enough to make it up. Brenda http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paternoster/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Portugal
Hi everyone, I am currently planning my next trip and was wondering if you might help me. I am interested in going to Portugal and of course would like to see as many lace related places as possible. Does anyone know of any particular areas of Portugal that make lace? Are there any lacemakers from Portugal on arachne? Thank you, I am sure someone will be able to help me with information. Happy lacemaking Faye Owers Shearwater Tasmania Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] kiddie korner
DH sent these to me. Hope you like. Lynn wildgun004smate A first grade teacher collected well-known proverbs. She gave each child in her class the first half of a proverb and asked them to come up with the remainder of the proverb. It's hard to believe these were actually done by first graders. Their insight may surprise you. While reading these keep in mind that these are first graders. 6-year-olds, because the last one is classic! 1. Better to be safe than..punch a 5th grader. 2. Strike while thebug is close. 3. It's always darkest before..Daylight Saving Time. 4. Never underestimate the power oftermites. 5. You can lead a horse to water but...how? 6. Don't bite the hand thatlooks dirty. 7. No news is..impossible. 8 A miss is as good as a..Mr. 9. You can't teach an old dog new..math. 10. If you lie down with dogs, you'll..stink in the morning. 11. Love all, trustme. 12. The pen is mightier than the...pigs. 13. An idle mind isthe best way to relax. 14. Where there's smoke there'spollution. 15. Happy the bride whogets all the presents. 16. A penny saved is...not much. 17. Two's company, three's.the Musketeers. 18. Don't put off till tomorrow what...you put on to go to bed. 19. Laugh and the whole world laughs with you, cry and.you have to blow your nose. 20. There are none so blind as.Stevie Wonder. 21. Children should be seen and notspanked or grounded. 22. If at first you don't succeed..get new batteries. 23. You get out of something only what you.see in the picture on the box. 24. When the blind leadeth the blind...get out of the way. 25. Better late than...pregnant To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Copyright - my two penn'th
In a message dated 27/08/2004 23:32:56 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I also know that a lot of people will share patterns - 'we'll buy one each and make copies'. Whilst that's illegal it's hardly worth making a fuss about. Only if I saw someone selling my patterns without permission would I get upset. If I go to a lace day and see one of my designs on a pillow, or finished and on display I get a kick of pride knowing that I designed it, and I take it as a compliment that someone else liked the pattern enough to make it up. Brenda http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paternoster/ Brenda and the Spiders (ah the rock band is back), I think you have hit the nail on the head here. We all know that copyrights mean we can't give away your 'intellectual property' - the pattern but we also know that it does go on. It isn't something that we can police because let's face it, how do you remember who you've sold patterns to when you see them at a lace day - perhaps it was bought by a friend as a present - I've had that happen when I've given someone a lift to a lace fair. (By the way, did you know that in the UK you aren't supposed to 'charge' someone petrol money to take them somewhere - that makes you a taxi and gives issue with your insurance but they can offer to fill up your petrol tank and pay for it - see, we have laws that go round in circles on other areas too!) The one thing here that Brenda has said that makes me feel great is that she gets a kick out of seeing her pattern on someone else's pillow being made - or on display. Whilst I know that massive financial rewards would be better, that kick must we worth it's weight in gold - I just get a kick from seeing a hankie I made my mum, on her dressing table every time I go round and I didn't even design it! The Aussie asked why I don't design anymore and I said that simply I don't have the time - there are so many things I want to make that to design, at this time, stops me. But if there weren't people like Brenda out there then I would have nothing to make but historical patterns and whilst I love the patterns out of the luton books etc if I wanted to make there I would have to true them up if someone else had not taken the time to do so for me. I taught this woman to make lace and she moaned when she had to spangle her bobbins, and she moaned when she had to wind her bobbins, and she moaned when she had to finish off the lace, and she moaned when she had to mount her lace ... in the end, I asked her why she was making lace and she said; 'so people can see I'm clever and have a hobby'. Historically, lace makers did all these things because they are part of the craft that we follow and if you don't do them then you don't really make lace (ok, so we all occassionally buy pre spangled bobbins at show and I've got a bobbin winder) but designing lace was not historically part of the lace makers repertoire - if I was a commercial lacemaker then it is something that I would have been given to make from - so for me, people like Brenda are fulfilling a role that has been there as long as lacemaking and if I remove her ability to receive recognition of her time and effort then I am stealing from her - both monetarily and morally - so I pay for my pattern and I should show my appreciation of her pattern when I've made it by letting her know I loved it (or even loathed it but got there if it's a difficult one) and asking her permission to put it on my web site. Now here is a thought, I've been blogging and putting pictures of the lace that I'm making on my blog - am I infrindging copyright - yes I possibly am - but I'm careful to only show the part of the pattern I'm working on and to say where it came from. When I did talk about the equipment I was using it caused the great talk about the green horse shoe that I was using from Kleinhout and infact that was when Brenda, I believe, said that they sell them in the UK and raised awareness of it. To some extent - with lace web sites and blogging we are globally doing what lacemakers have done for years - we are bragging about our favourite lace toys and patterns but instead of doing it with the woman who lives next door - we are doing it with our friends around the world. I come on this site and say, wow, I've got this fabulous book and I've made this piece out of it and you won't believe how gorgeous it is and here is a picture on my website. Now, say 6 people go and look at the piece - which is a reasonable response to an email - and one of them say 'wow' I want to make that and buys the book then we have done a good thing. With bragging about your lace you are putting the copyright laws in a moral quandry - promotion over copyright - and this is where the law is very grey - from what I have seen on looking into this, the law does not condone breaches of copyright (which posting on your web site is) but understands
