Re: SB: What I'll be studying

[Kent Tenney]

Another interesting project is Brython, Python in the browser
https://brython.info/
good documentation and demo

very heavy development, easy to install and run locally

- git clone https://github.com/brython-dev/brython.git
- cd brython/www
- python3 -m http.server
- browse to localhost:8000

(current trunk returns 404 for 'Tutorial' )

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 12:27 PM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
off...@riseup.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In a world where JavaScript is a commonplace, disliking it becomes
> automatically opinionated :-).
>
> I put sparkles of JS here and there for my web sites, but I don't plan to
> make it my main programming language and now that JS transpilers are
> becoming a more common place I plan to keep using Pharo as much as
> possible, as for now, nothing beats its live coding experience and
> programming environment. So I would say the "J" of Jamstack is more about
> "JavaScript as a bridge" that as the primary language, as the "P" in LAMP
> Stack meant PHP, but in some context became Python or Perl or even non P
> named languages and the "M" was not about "MySQL always".
>
> I also like Elixir and I think that the BEAM is a pretty awesome
> technology for parallelism, as it is shown in this excellent talk[1]. It is
> not the place where I'm focused as I'm more interested in live coding and
> moldable tools[2a] and for that Pharo[2] is a pretty powerful tool that
> change the way you think about/with software.
>
> [1] GOTO 2019 • The Soul of Erlang and Elixir • Saša Jurić
> https://youtu.be/JvBT4XBdoUE
> [2] https://pharo.org/
> [2a] Tudor Gîrba - Moldable development
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pot9GnHFOVU
> So, going back to the exploration of web technologies, my approach has
> been to leverage the knowledge and aesthetics I already have to find a
> static site generator[3] (for example a Python based one) and to create a
> site on it (preferably using some pre-existing template with a good design)
> and also to see the infrastructure from the point of view of an "end user"
> or a community that is going to add content to such site. That is how I
> went from web2py[3a] to Grav[3b] to Brea[3c], my own Pharo based CMS (as
> Pharo was the language I was using to customize Grav's markdown and YAML
> source files anyway). This is a story of progressive decoupling: as the
> excellent and integrated web2py became kind of over complex for the stuff
> we were doing/needing, Grav allow an editing experience I thought could be
> friendly while we enjoyed flat file storage, which enabled redundant
> storage and editing via Fossil (but it could be Git). And because we where
> working with plain files, their processing could be done in several
> languages (I chose Pharo). Once Grav customization became also over complex
> and after seeing that nobody was using Grav's web ui the next step was to
> build an even simpler solution combining Pharo, Pandoc and Fossil which
> resonated strongly with the explorations of the Jamstack and the
> IndieWeb[4][4a] about building your own tools and web presence.
>
> [3] https://jamstack.org/generators/
> [3a] http://web2py.com/
> [3b] https://getgrav.org/
> [3c] https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/brea/
> [4] https://indieweb.org/
> [4a] https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/indieweb/
>
> Fiuuuhhh, Edward's sabbatical makes me talk even more that on-topic
> conversations... ;-P ... Maybe I should write a blog post instead and
> invite you to my IndieWeb place to keep the conversation.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> On 9/11/20 12:06 p. m., rengel wrote:
>
> JavaScript might be commonplace, but the exciting action is in functional
> solutions:
> i.e. Elixir (https://elixir-lang.org/) and Phoenix (
> https://phoenixframework.org/).
> Why? Because JavaScript does not teach new ways of thinking.
> Yes, I know, this is very opinionated...
> Reinhard
>
> On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 7:10:35 PM UTC+1 off...@riseup.net wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Adding to the Arjan's excellent suggestion, I would recommend:
>>
>>- Computer, Build me an app: https://youtu.be/qqt6YxAZoOc
>>- The Return of 'Write Less, Do More' by Rich Harris  | JSCAMP 2019:
>>https://youtu.be/BzX4aTRPzno
>>
>> For getting the overview you talk about, I would reemphasize the review
>> of the Jamstack[1] and see and share (maybe with yourself using Telegram or
>> some instant messaging app) several introductory videos related with
>> Jamstack, as is my most effective way to train the YouTube algorithm to
>> recommend me more stuff about that (I usually choose long talks about the
>> subject I'm interested before going bed, so the algorithm refines its model
>> to recommend me more long form content about it when I wake up next
>> morning).
>>
>> [1] https://jamstack.org/
>>
>> I have been a "coding researcher"  since 2014 when I rediscovered Pharo
>> and used it for my PhD, but I have also gladly ignored the web development
>> since mid 90's, focusing my code/tech concerns elsewhere and I'm happy

Re: I am about to start a sabbatical

[Kent Tenney]

Enjoy your explorations, there certainly is a lot to discover!

On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 9:49 AM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> This post will be pre-writing for a locked, pinned post.
>
> Don't panic: during my sabbatical I'll continue to answer questions and
> fix serious bugs.
>
> Now seems like an excellent time to take a sabbatical break from Leo:
>
> 1. I have been working on Leo for almost 35 years without any extended
> break.
>
> It's time for an extended period of exploration and learning about all the
> nifty new computer technologies. These explorations will likely suggests
> features that will be of use to a wide audience. For example, Leo should
> have better built-in support for rust, go, and other languages.
>
> 2. None of the remaining issues promise to move Leo forward in exciting
> new directions.
>
> Imo, by far the most significant new direction for Leo in the last several
> years has been the leoInteg project.
>
> 3. There a no significant bugs remaining in Leo, and none are likely to
> appear during the sabbatical.
>
> *Summary*
>
> My sabbatical will start when Leo 6.3 b1 goes out the door. That will
> happen a week from today, October 23, or shortly thereafter.
>
> I have been underwhelmed by my own performance over the last several
> years. leoAst.py is the high point, but it does not directly extend Leo.
> Rather, it is an example of *using* Leo. The low point was all the work
> adding Qt docks and then removing them.
>
> The sabbatical will last t least several months, and one year at the
> longest. Only at the sabbatical's end will I know what comes next. I have
> several plans for the sabbatical, but they are preliminary and I won't go
> into details here.
>
> All comments and questions are welcome here.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Reproducible computational science

[Kent Tenney]

I'm not interested in reproducibility, but I think the notion of
a Leo 'schema' is a great pattern: Domain Specific Leo,
a configuration of Leo dedicated to a problem domain
where the menus, buttons, scripts, commands etc have
been optimized for, in this case, reproducibility research.

Other candidates for a specialized Leo would be database
management, frameworks like Flask, Django, React etc

For each, the specialized Leo would be focused on files,
commands, queries, rendering, documentation etc
germane to the domain.

Leo is so expansive it strikes me as a programming language,
these instances which encapsulate specifics looking like
applications built with the Leo language.

Thanks,
Kent

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:57 PM Brad  wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> As I see it, one of the more important trends in computational sciences is
> reproducibility. I have tried out a number of platforms that attempt to
> enable reproducibility and capture the provenance necessary to faithfully
> recapitulate computational analyses; however, I found them burdensome in
> terms of the imposed workflows.
>
> I wonder if Leo could be a compelling platform for this use case.
>
> The idea would be to have a sharable Leo file of a given format that would
> include enough information (exact code, data, specifics of the platform and
> libraries, etc.) such that the 'sharee' could exactly re-create the results
> of the 'sharer'.
>
> It seems that Leo is a rich enough platform that a 'schema' could be
> created to facilitate this kind of sharing.
>
> Is anyone else interested in this use case?
>
> Kind regards,
> Brad
>
>
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Re: Two birthday stories on my 70th birthday

[Kent Tenney]

Happy birthday Edward!
Leo has been a big deal to me. I found Leo pre-python
and have been hooked ever since. Then I discovered you
live across the street from my high school sweetheart ...

This list is the only one I read every msg, this one here
is 5 of 15,221 ...

You've reached so many from the Leo bunker, I've heard
that Linus drives Linux from a basement room, so you're
in good company.

Thanks,
Kent

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 5:57 AM lewis  wrote:

> Congratulations on your birthday, I hope all the family enjoys the
> celebrations.
> Thank you for Leo, it is a great place to learn, both in the community and
> the editor. I look forward to new projects and it's continuing evolution.
>
> I always enjoy stories about your brother Speed, even though they only
> offer glimpses of his knowledge :)
>
> Thanks
> Lewis
>
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Re: Leo and fossil merged with Rust

[Kent Tenney]

Indeed.
I haven't used Leo in a while, been playing with docker containers
which configure and serve Jupyter lab on non-gui machines.
This time machine kind of capability is the kind of thing to lure
me back to Leo.

Terry, I remember you mentioning that you're using Docker, do
you have Leo related Dockerfile or docker-compose.yml ?

Thanks,
Kent


On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 2:31 PM Terry Brown  wrote:

> That is very cool.  I hope Kent sees it, he's talked about such things
> more than once.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 2:11 PM vitalije  wrote:
>
>> It has been a very long time since I've got this idea of combining Leo
>> with fossil. For all these years I felt that there was a great potential in
>> this mixture, but I haven't got the time to do anything about it until
>> recently.
>>
>> Fossil uses an extremely good algorithm to calculate the difference
>> between two texts. And the deltas produced by this algorithm are very
>> compact and nice to work with. If the input texts are texts, than the delta
>> is also a plain text. I have ported this algorithm from C in which fossil
>> is originally written, to Rust programming language. The ported code is
>> published on crates.io as fossil-delta
>> . Using this library, I wrote a
>> small web server which accepts snapshots sent from Leo periodically at idle
>> time and calculates the delta between the previous one and the current one,
>> and stores those deltas in the sqlite database. The server also serves
>> small web application that allows user to browse history of any recorded
>> Leo outline. Using two scale widgets user can choose any recorded version
>> of the outline shape, and history of the selected node.
>>
>> Sending snapshots from Leo is done by the plugin which keeps track of the
>> time passed since the last Leo command has been executed. When 5s pass
>> since the last executed command, Leo calculates the snapshot and if it is
>> different than the previous one it sends it in separate thread to the
>> server. The whole process is almost unnoticeable by the user. The server
>> stores the deltas in the database file (one database per Leo outline) which
>> is located in the same folder as the Leo document, and has the '.history'
>> appended to its name. For example: outline test.leo will have it's history
>> stored in the database test.leo.history in the same folder.
>>
>> Below is the link to the video demonstration (if you have read everything
>> above you can skip to the 3:00). There are some issues with the sound which
>> I couldn't fix, but there are captions in English.
>>
>> The demo 
>>
>> Vitalije
>>
>> PS: the outline is about 210Kb, and database with about 625 recorded
>> versions is about 450Kb. Those 625 versions were recorded during the 30
>> hours time span.
>>
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Re: Book review: Mind in motion

[Kent Tenney]

Great recommendation, just ordered it.
The sample pages hooked me, I think her emphasis applies to
questions I have about why I think and act as I do.

Thanks,
Kent

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 8:06 AM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> Mind in Motion: How Action Shapes Thought
> By Barbara Tversky, Basic Books, 2019
>
> I'm telling everyone I know about this book.  I highly recommend it.
>
> The author is a research scientist.  The book is anything but dry.  It
> might change your life.
>
> *Quotes*
>
> A creature didn't think in order to move; it just moved, and by moving it
> discovered the world and then formed the contents of its thoughts⁠—Larissa
> MacFarquhar.
>
> Art proves that life is not enough⁠—Paraphrasing Fernando Pessoa.
>
> This book means to show how we think about space and how we use space to
> think...The premise is audacious: spacial thinking, rooted in perception of
> space and action in it, is the foundation of all thought. The foundation,
> not the entire edifice.
>
> *Laws of cognition*
>
> These are solidly grounded in research.  Understand them, or suffer.
>
> First Law of Cognition: There are no benefits without costs.
>
> The root of all cognitive biases. We evolved to solve problems quickly,
> but not necessarily accurately.
>
> Sixth Law of Cognition: Spatial thinking is the foundation of abstract
> thought.
>
> Oh, how I wish I had understood this in school...
>
> *Implications for Leo*
>
> Creativity does not mean daydreaming!  For me, it means finding juicy
> problems to solve.
>
> Tversky discusses* empathetic design:*
>
> "[Designers] study a community of users intensively to see what people
> actually do and what kind of new product or service might improve their
> lives...We compared two strategies, mind wandering and empathetic, for the
> standard divergent thinking task, finding new uses for familiar
> objects...The hands-down winner was the empathetic strategy...Only the
> empathetic strategy approach gave a productive way to search for new uses."
>
> This is highly relevant to me at present.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Kent and Ville: you're always part of the team

[Kent Tenney]

Absolutely!
Proud to be from Ashland WI, Bayfield county, Barksdale township.

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 8:46 AM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> Ok to tell people where you are from?
>
> Edward
>
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Re: discuss: Use markdown for Leo's documentation #1147

[Kent Tenney]

I don't use a lot of rst capability, but really depend on
.. contents::

to generate links to sections in a document
anyone found a way to do that in Markdown?

Thanks,
Kent

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 3:12 PM Matt Wilkie  wrote:

> Hi Terry! thanks for chiming in
>
> The problem is that markdown's what everyone uses / expects.  So the
>> downside to anything that's not markdown is that people won't know it,
>> whereas they would know markdown.
>>
>
> A salve for this is Markdown compatibility, via AsciiDoctor, though it
> remains to be tested how much of the itch that would absolve.
>
> https://asciidoctor.org/docs/asciidoc-syntax-quick-reference/#markdown-compatibility
>
> --matt
>
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Re: Joe, is there any way to embed LeoVue's page in Leo's home page?

[Kent Tenney]

A quantum leap for the Leo brand!
Fabulous!

On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 9:58 AM Joe Orr  wrote:

> How's this look for a start:
>
> https://kaleguy.github.io/leosite-pilot/
>
> repo at:
> https://github.com/kaleguy/leosite-pilot
>
> Joe
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 6:10:27 AM UTC-4, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 8:05 PM Joe Orr  wrote:
>>
>>> Here's another approach that might be interesting:
>>>
>>> A site like this one: https://phosphorjs.github.io/
>>>
>>
>> A good looking, informative home page. Imo, too many sites don't actually
>> tell newcomers what the product does.
>>
>> So it's one simple home page with a couple of links up top
>>>
>>> The home page would say in sections: (I'm abbreviating)
>>>
>> [Snip]
>>
>>> Would be cool to basically have the Leo Docs on web be a Leo file
>>>
>>> Just a thought. I can dummy something up if you want to see what it
>>> might look like.
>>>
>>
>> Please do!
>>
>> Edward
>>
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Re: Ahas: the way forward

[Kent Tenney]

=snip=
> ignore Kent
=snip=

I get that a lot. :-]

I usually am at a text console, which benefits greatly from
tmux and it's Python wrapper tmuxp.

tmuxp uses a yaml or json file which describes a tmux
session: windows, panes, commands to run etc.
$ tmuxp load dbdev.yml

dbdev.yml defines a work environment appropriate for
the directories, files, commands used for db development

The effect is similar to Edwards suggestion to create a
batch file, but instead of os specific script, the file consists
of standards based definitions.

That's all.


On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 11:31 AM Terry Brown  wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 08:57:03 -0700 (PDT)
> "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 8:28:22 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
> >
> > > Neither Leo's code base nor Leo's ecosystem will change in any
> > incompatible way.
> >
> > I plan to experiment with using a QDockWidget at Leo's top level.  As
> > mentioned recently, the QDockWidget is not as flexible as I would
> > like. One trick might be to use a tiny/invisible central widget, with
> > the goal of allowing more flexible placements of *all* widgets.  An
> > easy, standalone, prototype will soon show whether this has any
> > chance of working.
> >
> > Using QDockWidget in any way *might* require changes to plugins that
> > put widgets in Leo's Log pane. I'll consider making such widgets
> > dockable, provided of course that Leo does, in fact, ever use
> > QDockWidget.
>
> I had done, meh, 72% of this work in the qdock-layout branch, not to be
> confused with the qt_docks branch, an earlier attempt that didn't get
> as far.
>
> It's not that hard if you ignore Kent, who will want persistence of
> multiple named layouts.  Unfortunately he's right, having to rearrange
> your workspace every time you start is unacceptable, and persistence
> makes it much harder.
>
> At least you can avoid my earlier mistake of failing to properly
> understand QMainWindow.saveState().  I spent a lot of time with
> complicated code trying to save and restore the layout myself with
> QDockWidget's rather limited API, before realizing the
> QMainWindow.saveState() was what I needed.
>
> I never completed the project because of what was, for me, an
> insurmountable amount of complexity in initialization with find and
> spell tabs in the log pane etc.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: Time for vacation and a break

[Kent Tenney]

Safe travels!

On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 7:23 PM Matt Wilkie  wrote:

>
> Rebecca and I will be leaving tomorrow for vacation.  Expect us back
>> sometime in February.
>>
>
> Have a wonderful vacation!
>
> Matt
>
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Re: How important is LeoWapp to you?

[Kent Tenney]

Is the intention to offer all capability of QT Leo?
- more important for greybeards than newbies

Off hand, my interest would be in running LeoWapp on text only
server machines, accessing from my desktop machine.
Security could be managed because both would be on the same
subnet, or routed locally.

Also interesting would be editing files served at home while at
work. Here security would be more challenging. I haven't yet
had interest in sharing access to Leo via internet, but if it was
possible that might change.

I'm not aware of advantages of a browser gui over the QT gui
if I'm only working locally.

Thanks,
Kent

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 9:37 AM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> As I explain here
> , there
> is no doubt in my mind that leoflexx.py could be made into a commercial
> app.
>
> That being so, now is a good time to ask you these questions:
>
> - How important is the LeoWapp project
>  to you?
> - How likely are you to use it?
>
> I'll probably continue work on LeoWapp for the next week or so in any
> case, but I'd like to get your responses first.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Not Leo in Flexx

[Kent Tenney]

Boy, does that sound interesting.

Had to check, yup, you own VDCG.

"a node  has a different set of children in each graph."
That's the crux of what interests me, which I see as spatial
versus temporal versioning.
"here is the content of this node, next to it is this other thing,
above it is yet another ..."
as apposed to
"here is the content of this node, previously it was this thing,
in the future it will be yet another thing."

To specify a graph, a key for that graph must be known,
I just call the keys 'coordinates'

At least in my little mind the spatial model makes more sense.

Good luck with it.

Thanks,
Kent


On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 9:29 AM Terry Brown  wrote:

> I could have sworn I'd posted about this, but can't find the post - I'd
> be curious if anyone remembered a posting along these lines.  Pffft.
>
> For a while (since Aug. 9 2018 according to git) I've been fiddling
> with a Flexx based app. that is Leo like.  But not Leo.  It's an
> experiment with a different data model (VDCG, Vaguely Directed Cyclic
> Graphs).  Nodes / edges are stored in a DB.  Edges belong to sets, or
> graphs.  Nodes can occur in multiple graphs.  Sort of sea of nodes /
> colored threads / Kent's extra dimensions (maybe).  So when you want
> the list of children for a node, you have to specify the graph, a node
> has a different set of children in each graph.
>
> The initial question is can you navigate this using a tree?  So I have
> a tree widget that supports moving nodes, and string widgets to edit
> the name and "body" of the node.  Data on a node is generalized as a
> dict / JSON string, so nodes having a head / body is an option, not a
> requirement.  Fiddling with questions about whether you should see
> nodes from two or more graphs under a node at the same time, etc.
>
> App. components aren't directly connected, they broadcast messages that
> other components can react to, or not.  Insert node, for example,
> broadcasts a msg. ('insert_node') from the JS tree component.  The
> "core" (Python) component hears that, changes the DB, and broadcasts a
> msg. ('node_inserted') telling any listening widgets about that change.
>
> Leaving a lot of rough edges (focus, can't manipulate top level nodes,
> keyboard nav. of tree etc.) while I try and work out if this model
> (VDCG) is usable.
>
> No particular point to this message other than that I could have sworn
> I'd written this before, but see no evidence that that's the case.
>
> Tangentially, I've also been using vim a lot for day to day work.  I
> see the Ace editor has a vim keyboard mode.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: Dreaming big dreams

[Kent Tenney]

I expect Emacs is of comparable complexity,how does
it offer such good documentation?

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 1:22 PM  wrote:

> I came to Leo because I wanted a programmable text editor that I can
> program in Python. I am an Emacs user who did not want to learn Emacs Lisp.
>
> My dream is that the documents be vastly improved. As it is, when it comes
> to scripting in Leo so I can customize my experience, the docs are no help.
> I have to ask what I want here or Github. I often find my answers in the
> archives of this list instead of the docs. While the community is very
> helpful, it is really no substitute to better documentation. Code snippets
> often don't work, and the docs refer to features that don't exist, etc.
>
> My dream is that Leo becomes as powerful as Emacs, and that people keep
> producing useful "Leo packages" with Python just as you see in Emacs.
>
> While I still attempt to use Leo, I've mostly resigned myself to learning
> Emacs Lisp. Sadly, it is now easier for me to learn Emacs lisp than to
> figure out how to customize Leo with Python.
>
>
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Re: Dreaming big dreams

[Kent Tenney]

I also think it would be great if Leo could use neovim for the editing
experience.

This project
https://github.com/neovim/python-client

says:

You can embed neovim into your python application instead of binding to a
running neovim instance.

>>> from neovim import attach
>>> nvim = attach('child', argv=["/bin/env", "nvim", "--embed"])

Not sure if that works with QT

https://gitlab.com/Muream/neovim-pyqt
seems to subclass a QT class to provide neovim in a QT window



import PyQt5.QtWidgets as QtWidgets

class NeovimWindow(QtWidgets.QMainWindow):

def __init__(self, nvim):
super().__init__()
self.nvim = nvim

++
++
import sys
import PyQt5.QtWidgets as QtWidgets
import ui.window as _window
from neovim import attach

def spawn_nvim():
nvim_argv = ['nvim', '--embed']
nvim = attach('child', argv=nvim_argv)
print(nvim)
return nvim

def main():
app = QtWidgets.QApplication(sys.argv)
nvim = spawn_nvim()
window = _window.NeovimWindow(nvim)
window.show()
app.exec_()

if __name__ == '__main__':
main()
++


On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 10:17 AM 'tfer' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 4:48:06 AM UTC-4, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 2:47 PM 'tfer' via leo-editor <
>> leo-e...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> So one idea talked about here is to run the IDE as a separate, possibly
>>> browser based process.  I propose an inversion of this, run Leo as the
>>> separate process, (Leobridge++), then leave all the fiddly UI bits (like
>>> completions), to what ever editor you're using as a graphical front end.
>>>
>>
>> It's an interesting dream. See below.
>>
>> Some of the work being done in VScode caused me to have  the realization
>>> that such an integration may not be as hard as we thought it might be.
>>> Think of it this way, editors are built to work on files, well let Leo be
>>> the file system!  All you need is a tree-like browser in your editor to get
>>> at the "files", ie Leo's nodes.
>>>
>>> Emacs, Vim, VScode all have tree-like file browsers, they just need to
>>> be "re-plumbed" to get Leo to open the selected node as if it were a file,
>>> (then save any edits back to Leo).  It may even be possible to have that
>>> plumbing be very dumb, just ship the outline navigation commands to Leo and
>>> have it send the resulting outline tree to the editor to "paint" rather
>>> that duplicate all the outline handling code in the editor.
>>>
>>
>> This would be just the tip of the icebersig.  One needs a way of running
>> python code from within the editor, and the python code must interact with
>> the re-plumbed outline pane.
>>
>> Yes there would be a lot of fiddly bits and duplication of Leo's logic to
> handle the outline tree *in the editor,* but I'm suggesting something
> different here.  Let Leo handle all that and ship the current state of the
> of the outline pane to the editor as just data, so it is just concern with
> the rendering of it, much as we do when we hand off the outline pane data
> to QT.
>
> I made things too simple when I said Leo would act as the file system for
> the editor we hook it up to.  It does that but also responds to commands,
> even synthetic keystrokes sent to it by the editor.  It also responds to
> information request, e.g. "what language should I consider this node to be
> written in?".
>
> So we need a rpc channel between the two, neovim has one built in, they
> use one called 'msg-pack'.
>
> VScode is based on electron/node.js.  Perhaps VScode could emulate one end
>> of a yoton connection.  (I'm never sure whether it would be a client or
>> server.)  This would be similar to the emacs/pymacs bridge
>> ,
>> which is just a few lines of elisp.
>
>
> Interestingly I find myself trying Emacs again, (with Evil-Mode for sane
> keybinding ;-), just to get Org-Mode.
>
>
>> Edward
>>
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Re: Persistent ID for @auto nodes

[Kent Tenney]

OK, that's embarrassing.
:-[

Thanks,
Kent

On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 1:24 AM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 10:58 AM Kent Tenney  wrote:
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> p.gnx doesn't work, a new one is generated each time the
>> Leo file is loaded.
>>
>
> @persistence does a pretty good job of remembering gnx's in @auto nodes.
>
> You were the one who requested this major feature.
>
> Set @bool create-at-persistence-nodes-automatically = True
>
> Edward
>
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Persistent ID for @auto nodes

[Kent Tenney]

Howdy,

p.gnx doesn't work, a new one is generated each time the
Leo file is loaded. It looks like a way around this would be
switching to at_clean, but I'd like to stick to at_auto if possible.

One approach would be to check for p.anyAtFileNodeName, and
if it's not none, parse parents until the file name is reached,
reconstructing fname.class.method. Presumable UNL could
also be parsed to extract such an ID.

Either of these seem tedious and fragile. When Leo imports the
file it parses the source in order to generate the required nodes,
is the result of this parsing persisted anywhere? If not, would it
be possible to make it an attribute of p?

Thanks,
Kent

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Featured on today's 4 Short Links

[Kent Tenney]

The '4 Short Links' O'Reilly feature tends to be interesting

https://www.oreilly.com/ideas/four-short-links-17-august-2018

might well generate some traffic ...

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Re: Large project collaboration

[Kent Tenney]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 9:38 AM, vitalije  wrote:

>
>> I have lost patience with this discussion.  If you want to convince me,
>> change leoNodes.py in a git branch and create show how the qt redraw code
>> can be improved.
>>
>> The ball is in your your court.  I'm done reading dissertations.
>>
>> Edward
>>
>
> My first response was:
>
> It is not fair. I explicitly said that I don't even think it is possible
> under conditions you gave. If you tired of this discussion, we don't have
> to have it right now. From the history of our discussions I have learned
> that after a while Edward will do the right thing that bothers him at the
> moment.
>
> But on second thought I will accept the challenge.
>

YEEEHAAA!, we are on!

Curious, what happens to speed of operations like searching nodes for
strings?


Only I am not going to play according to the rule "change only
> leoNodes.py". Instead I will to try to change as little as possible in
> whatever module I find necessary. All that in a separate branch. When I
> complete this Edward can look at all the changes and then decide whether to
> accept them or not.
>
> Vitalije
>
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Re: Large project collaboration

[Kent Tenney]

Increased speed offers the potential for working at larger scale,
waiting 10s for anything means it's broken, millisecond execution
means more potential use cases.

The difference in speed says to me that the execution path is
orders of magnitude simpler in the new code = better chance of
understanding.

Edward hasn't studied vitalije's code enough to understand it,
whereas vitalije understands the current Leo code, giving
him a bunch of credibility.

These are great days for Leo!

Thanks,
Kent


On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 7:12 AM, vitalije  wrote:

>
>> - The proposal asks me to consider rewriting Leo's essential code.
>>
>> Why should I want to do that?
>
>
> Because right now with the present Leo code alone, best that Leo can do is
> 1300 times slower than present Leo code with the new model.
>
> Vitalije
>
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Re: updates about new data model

[Kent Tenney]

python -> rust?

So you want those milliseconds to become microseconds?

:-]

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 9:36 AM, vitalije  wrote:

>
>
>
> Hypothesis looks interesting, but I have not gotten it to work. On Windows
>> 10, pytest test_ltm.py gives:
>>
>> [a64] c:\Test\new_leo_model>pytest test_ltm.py
>> = test session starts
>> =
>> platform win32 -- Python 3.6.3, pytest-3.2.1, py-1.4.34, pluggy-0.4.0
>> rootdir: c:\Test\new_leo_model, inifile:
>> plugins: hypothesis-3.57.0
>> collected 0 items / 1 errors
>>
>> === ERRORS ==
>> ==
>>  ERROR collecting test_ltm.py
>> _
>> ImportError while importing test module 'c:\Test\new_leo_model\test_lt
>> m.py'.
>> Hint: make sure your test modules/packages have valid Python names.
>> Traceback:
>> test_ltm.py:6: in 
>> from hypothesis.stateful import (RuleBasedStateMachine, rule,
>> initialize, invariant,
>> E   ImportError: cannot import name 'initialize'
>> !!! Interrupted: 1 errors during collection
>> !!!
>>
>> === 1 error in 0.17 seconds
>> ===
>>
>>
> You need hypothesis 3.60+ which can be installed from github. They release
> very often. Latest release
> 
> is 3.66. You need to download source archive and then unpack it to local
> folder. Inside unpacked archive there is folder hypothesis-python. Run
> python setup.py install
> inside this folder and hypothesis will be updated. It may be required to
> uninstall your current version.
>
> It works for me on Windows10 64bit and Python 3.6.5.
>
> I am currently trying to re-implement leoDataModel.py in rust. There is a
> setuptools-rust  extension for
> python to automate generating and installing binary extensions written in
> rust. I am still learning basics of rust, but I hope it wont be long before
> it is finished. Re-implementing functions in rust doesn't seem to be hard,
> but I have to figure how to efficiently communicate with python. PyO3
> rust crate promises this is achievable, and
> I am studying and experimenting with it.
>
> Vitalije
>
> PS: I have just updated README. Fixed hypothesis installation info and
> added section about goals.
>
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Re: updates about new data model

[Kent Tenney]

Leo is considered an editor, wrapped in a rich toolset,
and the xml of the Leo file as an appropriate way to
store the textual content.

I see Leo acting as a viewer/manager of structured data, wrapped
in a rich toolset. I think you are implementing this abstraction.
The speed and scalability create the potential for better
managing of data of all kinds, not just the text editors manage.

Again, exciting!

Thanks,
Kent

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 8:19 AM, vitalije  wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 2:39:45 PM UTC+2, Kent Tenney wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I find the blog posts to be excellent documentation, very well
>> written and structured.
>>
>> Thanks for this comment and for the time you spent reading posts. It
> gives me courage to continue writing.
>
> Your line
>
>> The difference ... is qualitative, not just quantitative.
>>
>
> made me think about my initial goals. My initial goal was code quality and
> not speed, but speed came as a by product and somehow it grabs focus and
> attention to itself.
> It is hard to remain focused on the quality difference which I was hoping
> to provide in the first place.
>
> Beauty of new data model is in its independence from Leo code. It doesn't
> depend on anything inside Leo. If it gets included in Leo code base it
> would be just a single python module that can be turned on and off or even
> replaced by some improved version, very easily.
>
> This model can be included in some other editors as well and provide Leo's
> unique features to other editors. I believe every editor would benefit from
> these features. The users of other editors just don't know it yet, so they
> can't appreciate them at the moment. But I am sure if they ever learn about
> those features they will certainly love them.
>
> I don't know what will be Edward's decision about the new model. I guess
> it won't be an easy one for him to make. Let's hope it would be the best
> possible decision whatever it may be.  I would be glad to help anyway I can.
>
> Vitalije
>
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Re: updates about new data model

[Kent Tenney]

Yes, I find the blog posts to be excellent documentation, very well
written and structured.

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 5:16 PM, vitalije  wrote:

>
>
> On Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 6:11:47 PM UTC+2, Kent Tenney wrote:
>>
>> Wow, that is exciting, a couple reactions.
>>
>> I looked at the code, don't understand it, but it's so clean I feel like
>> I could if I had to.
>>
>> The difference between multiple seconds and milliseconds is qualitative,
>> not just quantitative.
>>
>> Thanks for this comments. Have you looked just in the python code or in
> the blog posts about the new code?
>
> I would like to know if the blog posts are clear and understandable or not?
>
> https://computingart.net/leo-tree-model-4.html
> https://computingart.net/leo-tree-model-5.html
> https://computingart.net/leo-tree-model-6.html
>
> Vitalije
>
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Re: updates about new data model

[Kent Tenney]

Wow, that is exciting, a couple reactions.

I looked at the code, don't understand it, but it's so clean I feel like I
could if I had to.

The difference between multiple seconds and milliseconds is qualitative,
not just quantitative.
I love Terry's active-path concept, where a node becomes a file manager.
With enough
speed and scalability, recursively loaded @path nodes at the top of a large
codebase
could get really interesting.

Thanks,
Kent


On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 10:33 AM, vitalije  wrote:

> I have just published the code in new repository under leo-editor.
>
> https://github.com/leo-editor/new-leo-model
>
> leo-tree-model.leo file contains among other, four buttons which can be
> used to test new Qt version of NewTreeWidget, widget which draws outline
> using data from new data model.
>
> The first button is `new-tree` which when clicked will copy current
> outline to new data model and then create and insert a NewTreeWidget in
> separate pane. You can click in new tree widget to expand or contract
> nodes, also you can click in any headline and it will select appropriate
> node in Leo tree also.
>
> The second button is `nt-exp-all` which will expand all nodes in new tree
> widget. State expanded/contracted is not propagated to old Leo tree.
>
> The third button is `nt-prom-dem` which will execute 100 times pair of
> promote/demote operations drawing tree after each operation. It should log
> average time in Log tab.
>
> The fourth button is `speed-prom-dem` which will expand all nodes in
> classic Leo tree widget and then perform series of promote/demote commands,
> displaying average time.
>
> I have originally tested this four buttons in LeoPyRef.leo which has more
> than 8000 nodes. With such a large outline Leo needs more than 9 seconds to
> fully expand tree and about 1600ms to execute pair of
> c.demote(p)/c.promote(p) commands. That is why test is performed only 5
> times. Compare this to almost instantaneous expand-all in new tree widget
> and average of 52.7ms for demote/promote cycle.
>
> Note also that in new data model this operations can be executed much
> faster if we just skip repainting widget every time and use just w.update()
> instead of w.repaint().
> In this case new leo data model takes on average 1.8ms for one
> promote/demote cycle. That is 1600 times faster than Leo. Leo currently
> doesn't have functions that would do promote/demote pair without redrawing
> tree, but even if it had I believe they wouldn't be faster than their
> alternatives in new data model.
>
> In this post  I wrote
> about possible integration of this new model in Leo.
>
> The main idea is not to chop new model in pieces and re-implementing piece
> by piece in Leo. That is probably possible to do. However that would mean
> adding even more code to Leo instead of reducing its code size. I believe
> it would be long and cumbersome process with no guarantee that in the end
> Leo would retain backward compatibility and achieve comparable speed as in
> this demo.
>
> Instead, I would suggest to internally integrate new data model and only
> when executing scripts:
>
>1. copy data from new model to c.hiddenRootNode,
>2. execute script
>3. copy data from c.hiddenRootNode back to new data model
>
> That way all scripts will just work. All commands in Leo can be changed
> like this:
> @g.command('some-command')
> def some_command(self):
> if g.NEW_MODEL:
>return self.ltm.some_command()
> ... # rest of command unchanged
>
>
> And then just switch global switch to turn on or off new model.
>
> When creating GUI, this global switch can be checked and if set then build
> NewTreeWidget instead of old one, or they can be both instantiated and only
> one of them set visible (in case some script relies on classic tree widget).
>
> I believe that I can make all these changes in a separate branch and then
> Edward can decide whether he will accept proposed changes or not.
>
> Vitalije.
>
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Re: suggestion: disambiguate print-xxxx command names

[Kent Tenney]

You've got a good memory Edward!

I think there are also some print-xxx commands which involve
the printer, so the power of tab completion is compromised,


On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Rob  wrote:

> I think most non-programmers would assume that `print.xxx` implies sending
> something to a `printer` object (actual paper printer or PDF creator), ie.
> something configured by the OS as a `printer`. For them (I consider myself
> mostly a non-programmer), what these commands actually mean is `output to
> the screen`. So, I agree that clarifying the difference somehow in the
> naming is a good idea.
>
> Rob...
>
> On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 4:25:12 PM UTC-4, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>> Kent has made almost the identical suggestion.  I'm not sure why I wasn't
>>> more sympathetic to it before, but on second/third thought it seems
>>> reasonable.
>>>
>>
>> Changing names could, in theory, break scripts that use, say,
>> c.k.simulateCommand, but that does not seem sufficient reason to reject an
>> otherwise reasonable suggestion.
>>
>> Any other comments?
>>
>> Edward
>>
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Column tracking

[Kent Tenney]

cursor location info like
line: 3 col: 21 fcol:

- what is the difference between col: and fcol:
- I don't see either one tracking cursor position

Is it just me?

Thanks,
Kent

Git repo info: branch = devel, commit = 741087253066
Python 3.6.4, PyQt version 5.10.1
linux

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Toggle-split-direction

[Kent Tenney]

I was surprised to find Toggle-split-direction under
Window -> Expand/Contract Panes
instead of
Window -> Change Window Layout

by choice or bug?

Thanks,
Kent

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Re: Gitlab

[Kent Tenney]

discussion of features and Github comparison starts at 11:45

Great feature set, seems like a good community. I've installed
locally for use with my code, so far so good.

Interesting stuff, not saying Leo wants to migrate.

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:57 PM, Edward K. Ream <edream...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 4:25 PM, Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I see references to gitlab, never knew it's story.
>>
>> Here is an interview with it's creator, it's quite compelling stuff
>> https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/473
>>
>> As advertised, it's dead simple to install locally and play with.
>>
>
> ​Well, I gave up after 10 minutes of chat about sick people and pianos,
> and then the host starts to read from a web page.  You have more patience
> than I.
>
> Can you summarize why we would want to migrate from github?
>
> Edward
>
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Gitlab

[Kent Tenney]

I see references to gitlab, never knew it's story.

Here is an interview with it's creator, it's quite compelling stuff
https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/473

As advertised, it's dead simple to install locally and play with.

Thanks,
Kent

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Arguments passed to commands?

[Kent Tenney]

More than once I've wished I could put arguments
after the command name, within the command they would
be available as something like *args

Currently I've got buttons which invoke

g.app.gui.runAskOkCancelStringDialog

to allow input, but it's somewhat cumbersome.

Is there a better way?

Thanks,
Kent

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Re: live update of abbreviations

[Kent Tenney]

Sweet!

I was looking at the refresh-* commands,
reload-* does the trick.

Thanks,
Kent

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Edward K. Ream <edream...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I seem to recall a time when doing a  followed by
>>  would apply @settings changes, but
>> now it seems the file must be closed and re-opened.
>>
>
> ​This came up a few days ago, and I didn't follow up on it.
>
> Have you tried the reload-all-settings command?  Iirc it's supposed to
> reload all settings ;-)
>
> Edward
>
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live update of abbreviations

[Kent Tenney]

This may not be feasible, I don't know the implementation.

I've rediscovered the power of abbreviations, and working on
some fairly involved ones, I check my work often.

I seem to recall a time when doing a  followed by
 would apply @settings changes, but
now it seems the file must be closed and re-opened.

Any enhancements to the code/test cycle for scripting Leo
would be great.

Thanks,
Kent

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Re: pytest integration for Leo

[Kent Tenney]

:-]

Important distinction.

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:18 AM, Terry Brown  wrote:

> On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:06:48 -0600
> "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 3:45 PM, Terry Brown 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > For anyone using the pytest framework I've written a button which
> > > jumps between code and corresponding test, creating missing
> > > folders / files / functions as needed.  It's doc'ed in its doc
> > > string.
> > >
> > > https://github.com/leo-editor/snippets/blob/master/utils/
> pytest_switch.py
> >
> >
> > ​Thanks Terry.  Do you regularly use pytest for your Leo work?
>
> No, I use if for my non-Leo work, for which I use Leo :-)
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: Merging 5.8-dev into master is next

[Kent Tenney]

Although the Leo way is working, it might be advantageous  to
adopt what has become standard, making potential contributers
more comfortable: working on a develop branch instead of master.

Along these lines, issuing pull requests instead of pushing is a
good way for changes to be vetted.

I was interested to see that Jim Fulton issues pull requests for
his changes to his own code base, allowing users to see what
he is up to.

Certainly hard to know the cost/benefit of any of this stuff.

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:57 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:21 AM, 'Marcel Franke' via leo-editor <
> leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> It doesn't matter how stable or unstable develop-branch becomes, but
>> master has to be stable and reliable all the time, always.
>>
>
> ​I can understand why organizations might adopt this point of view.
>
> To my knowledge, having Leo's master be the bleeding edge has never caused
> anyone significant problems.
>
> Edward
>
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print-settings question

[Kent Tenney]

In the midst of the settings, I see a bunch of text from Leo files:
...

searchbody = True
searchheadline = True
sectionnamecolor = red
selectalltextwheneditingheadlines = False

selectedtabbg = @LightSteelBlue1
settingsfindermenu = 

http://leoeditor.com/namespaces/leo-python-editor/1.1
" >


@outline-data settings-finder-menu
Colors




checkbox-font-family
checkbox-font-size



sftpcachecredentials = True
shadowprefix = x
shadowsubdir = .leo_shadow
showfindresultinstatus = True
[M] showfulltracebacksinscripts = True

...


The same effect is present later on, when my abbrevs are expanded:

tracetreeredraw = False
trailingbodynewlines = one
[M] treeabbreviations = 

http://leoeditor.com/namespaces/leo-python-editor/1.1
" >


@outline-data tree-abbreviations
bp;;
afile


Is it just me?


Thanks,

Kent

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@rclick in myLeoSettings.leo not generating commands in work files

[Kent Tenney]

@rclick buttons defined in myLeoSettings.leo work fine in work files,
and  <@rclick command name> works fine in the myLeoSettings.leo
file, but in the work files,  <@rclick command name> is unknown.

Before submitting a bug/enhancement request, can anyone else
comment on whether they also see this?
I'm leery of my issues being due to personal cruft.

I'll push on this because I think the button/command capability in Leo
is really what sets it apart.

tiny bits of code resulting in new capability, both clickable and
typeable, available in any leo file in the same directory
with virtually ZERO learning curve ...  amazeballs

Thanks,
Kent

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Re: Neovim as an easier way to add in a different editor

[Kent Tenney]

+1
This would be fantastic

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:50 PM, 'tfer' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>  Neovim 0.2+ adds a Qt based editor in order to hit its promise of "works
> on Windows".  It should be possible to leverage this into an alternative
> editor pane, all that would be needed is to channel each node's body text
> into and out of Neovim, (the in-portion would also require you to set
> filetype to correspond to the "in-force" @language directive).
>
> Why I say this should be easy is that Neovim uses Msgpack rpc to give you
> complete control of Neovim.  Three things are needed:
>1) provide a way to embed the Qt frontend as a new/alternative editor
> pane and connect to an running neovim instance.
>2) switch all the leo code that fills/updates the current editor pane
> into msgpack calls that fill or update the body text of the current node
> to/from the neovim pane.
>3) pass back to leo any calls that change the Outline pane, e.g.
> alt-downarrow.
>
> Two and three could all be handled by a neovim plugin that is written in
> python!  See https://github.com/neovim/python-client
>
> I know that Edward prefers emacs over vim, but just as their are vim
> emulating modes for emacs, there are emacs emulating modes for vim.
>
> (sorry about the partial topic above)
>
> Tom
>
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Re: How did I came across Leo?

[Kent Tenney]

I think I discovered Leo as a result of a fleeting interest
in literate programming. Don't recall the date, but it was
before Leo was ported from C++ to Python.

When I learned that Edward lived across town, kitty-corner
from a high school sweetheart, I was SOLD!

:-]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 8:39 AM, Zoom.Quiet  wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Terry Brown 
> wrote:
> >
> > I think I was using Freemind before Leo, although I'd spent a long time
>
> WoW .. in fact,
> there really some guys base Leo record notes,
> and translate into Freemind xml for export maindmapping html.
>
> > using the console based outliner hnb, which apparently has been
> > resurrected as tines https://github.com/larrykollar/tines
> >
> > Cheers -Terry
> >
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> 怒: 冗余不做,日子甭过!备份不做,十恶不赦!
> KM keep growing environment culture which promoting organization learning!
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Re: Joe, building LeoVue fails for me on Windows and Ubuntu

[Kent Tenney]

Ubuntu main is too old, use the node repo
This is what I have:
curl -sL https://deb.nodesource.com/setup_6.x | bash -

which is a shortcut to add the node repo

after that
apt-get install nodejs
installs current version

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Edward K. Ream 
wrote:

> On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 11:42:11 AM UTC-6, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> It's troubling that the Ubuntu versions are so much lower than
> corresponding Windows versions.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Turn off icons for @ ?

[Kent Tenney]

I'd tried some overrides of the declutter stuff in myLeoSettings.leo,
and tried adding @data tree-declutter = False to myLeoSettings.leo
no change, I'm not gonna mess with leoSettings.leo

Only asking if there's a @setting, if not, forget I asked :=]
hate to initiate wild goose chases when there's bigger fish to fry
???

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Terry Brown <terrynbr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 12:26:00 -0600
> Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there a setting for headlines to be all text, no icon?
> >
> > I ask because the timestamp plugin changes the UA each
> > access of the node. Since the encoded description of the
> > icon is in the UA, and Git sees the UA as one line, the
> > Git diff for a Leo file where a @ node has been accessed
> > includes the encoded icon.
> >
> > NBD, just asking.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kent
>
> Maybe set @data tree-declutter = False
> @data tree-declutter-patterns to not include icons?
>
> That should get rid of the F, A, E, C etc. icons that hide the @file,
> @auto etc. text.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Turn off icons for @ ?

[Kent Tenney]

Is there a setting for headlines to be all text, no icon?

I ask because the timestamp plugin changes the UA each
access of the node. Since the encoded description of the
icon is in the UA, and Git sees the UA as one line, the
Git diff for a Leo file where a @ node has been accessed
includes the encoded icon.

NBD, just asking.

Thanks,
Kent

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Re: Hook questions

[Kent Tenney]

Great, looks like 'end1' is called once per exiting a Leo session ...

Thanks,
Kent

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Edward K. Ream <edream...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have old documentation containing a chart of event hooks,
>> have not located such a thing in LeoDocs.leo.
>> Is there a current one somewhere?
>>
>
> ​LeoDocs.leo#Leo's Documentation-->Advanced Topics-->Writing
> Plugins-->@rst html\writingPlugins.html-->Handling events-->Summary of
> event handlers​
>
>
> ​Or here
> <http://leoeditor.com/writingPlugins.html#summary-of-event-handlers>, on
> the web.
>
> Edward
>
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Hook questions

[Kent Tenney]

I have old documentation containing a chart of event hooks,
have not located such a thing in LeoDocs.leo.
Is there a current one somewhere?

Is there a hook for exiting a Leo session? The doc I have lists
'close-frame' but that fires each time a file closes in a multi-tab
session.

Thanks,
Kent

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Remove 'Chapters' icon from toolbar?

[Kent Tenney]

I don't use chapters, is there config to free up the real estate
the icons consume?

Thanks,
Kent

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Re: buttons defined in myLeoSettings.leo

[Kent Tenney]

Still trying to nail it down. If it was as straight forward as
buttons defined in local myLeoSettings.leo don't show up
in work files, others would be seeing it, and reporting it.

And I assume the command 'print-buttons' works as expected
for y'all.

So I assume it's me, something lurking in my environment.

In any case, I created an issue, with the minimal files I
describe in the report: good luck!

Thanks,
Kent

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 8:14 AM, Edward K. Ream <edream...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 9:08 AM, Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I moved some buttons from the .leo file under development
>> to the myLeoSettings.leo in the same dir.
>>
>> For a time, the buttons appeared in the work file, then they
>> disappeared, only visible if in the settings file.
>>
>> I'm seeing different behaviour if I start Leo with my usual
>> --session-save --session-restore or without those options.
>>
>> I am unaware of any changes which would trigger this.
>>
>> - is it expected that @buttons in myLeoSettings.leo appear in
>>   work files in the same directory?
>>
>> - if so, any suggestions for troubleshooting?
>>
>
> ​Please file a new issue for this, with as much detail as you can.
>
> Edward
>
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buttons defined in myLeoSettings.leo

[Kent Tenney]

I moved some buttons from the .leo file under development
to the myLeoSettings.leo in the same dir.

For a time, the buttons appeared in the work file, then they
disappeared, only visible if in the settings file.

I'm seeing different behaviour if I start Leo with my usual
--session-save --session-restore or without those options.

I am unaware of any changes which would trigger this.

- is it expected that @buttons in myLeoSettings.leo appear in
  work files in the same directory?

- if so, any suggestions for troubleshooting?

(I suspected cache related, added --no-cache to the command
line, didn't make a difference. I also renamed ~/.leo/db to
~/.leo/_db that also didn't change anything)

Thanks,
Kent

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Re: Leo Vue

[Kent Tenney]

I also see
Cannot GET /

at localhost:8080
and the following in the terminal where I entered
$ npm run dev

ERROR  Failed to compile with 1
errors
1:08:24 PM

 error  in ./src/main.js

Module build failed: Error: Couldn't find preset "es2015" relative to
directory "/opt/fetching/leovue"
at
/opt/fetching/leovue/node_modules/babel-core/lib/transformation/file/options/option-manager.js:293:19
at Array.map (native)
at OptionManager.resolvePresets
(/opt/fetching/leovue/node_modules/babel-core/lib/transformation/file/options/option-manager.js:275:20)
at OptionManager.mergePresets
(/opt/fetching/leovue/node_modules/babel-core/lib/transformation/file/options/option-manager.js:264:10)
at OptionManager.mergeOptions
(/opt/fetching/leovue/node_modules/babel-core/lib/transformation/file/options/option-manager.js:249:14)
at OptionManager.init
(/opt/fetching/leovue/node_modules/babel-core/lib/transformation/file/options/option-manager.js:368:12)
at File.initOptions
(/opt/fetching/leovue/node_modules/babel-core/lib/transformation/file/index.js:212:65)
at new File
(/opt/fetching/leovue/node_modules/babel-core/lib/transformation/file/index.js:135:24)
at Pipeline.transform
(/opt/fetching/leovue/node_modules/babel-core/lib/transformation/pipeline.js:46:16)
at transpile
(/opt/fetching/leovue/node_modules/babel-loader/lib/index.js:50:20)
at Object.module.exports
(/opt/fetching/leovue/node_modules/babel-loader/lib/index.js:175:20)

 @ multi ./build/dev-client ./src/main.js

> Listening at http://localhost:8080



On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Chris George  wrote:

> I am on Day 2 of trying to get it to work on my system. It took over a
> week last time, but I have since installed a different Linux distribution.
> Today I finally got "npm run dev" to work without errors.
>
> Now to figure out what "Cannot GET /"means, :-(
>
> Chris
>
> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 3:29 PM, Joe Orr  wrote:
>
>> Offray,
>>
>> Thanks for the kind words. About Electron, that is basically just node +
>> browser in a package. I think should be doable to wrap Leo python code in
>> node and have the browser interface, maybe using something like this:
>> https://www.npmjs.com/package/node-python
>>
>> About other formats and outlines, no plans for that. People can always
>> just import into Leo ;-)
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 2:50:14 PM UTC-5, Offray Vladimir Luna
>> Cárdenas wrote:
>>
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> The web interface looks really great. I wonder if this could be the path
>>> for the visualization & services 2018 roadmap. The advantage of using a web
>>> interface as a rendering interface is that a lot of stuff is there ready to
>>> be used. Electron apps [1] has been discussed previously in this list as a
>>> possibility for such integration, but I don't know you they can use the
>>> python source there.
>>>
>>> [1] https://github.com/electron/electron
>>>
>>> There is any support for OPML or other ouliners? I think this could be a
>>> really good way to publish online the output of several programs.
>>>
>>> Keep the good work.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Offray
>>>
>>> On 03/01/18 09:23, Joe Orr wrote:
>>>
>>> Forgot to add, so far I haven't posted about Leo Vue anywhere but here
>>> because it was missing key features. The basic features are now complete so
>>> I'll be posting about it elsewhere in a few weeks. In meantime, if anyone
>>> has a bug report, that would be very helpful, the program isn't very well
>>> tested yet. Also if anyone has a nice sample Leo file to post to the
>>> examples repo, that would be great as well. You can load your leo file just
>>> by using the index.html file noted in the README.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 9:19:17 AM UTC-5, Joe Orr wrote:

 Edward,

 Thanks for the note, will be adding to the README soon, including an
 acknowledgement to you for making it all possible.

 Couple of notes about making a front end for Leo using web technologies:
 - I can make the tree look exactly like the current Leo interface with
 basically just CSS, will add that as option in future.
 - Vue is a great framework for this, lightweight and complete. Leo Vue
 is a good case study, I think. Will be adding more (Leo) docs to explain
 the code.
 - The reader program has some capabilities that wouldn't be suitable to
 the actual program, like being able to load subtrees. So a Leo version with
 a web interface would be separate program, not an extension of Leo Vue. But
 a lot of the same code or patterns could be used.
 - Mentioned this way back when but haven't had time to work on it, the
 Leo (python) program could be wrapped in node, and web front end could talk
 to it.

 Joe

 On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 8:27:45 PM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 5:08 PM, Joe Orr  

Re: tip wanted: faster git clone

[Kent Tenney]

Below demonstrates the difference between clone and clone --depth=1
When git trunk is recommended as a good way for users to install and run,
I think --depth=1 would be good to mention, pretty dramatic difference.

ktenney@delly:/tmp$ time git clone --depth=1
https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor
Cloning into 'leo-editor'...
remote: Counting objects: 3503, done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (3113/3113), done.
remote: Total 3503 (delta 410), reused 2670 (delta 319), pack-reused 0
Receiving objects: 100% (3503/3503), 9.10 MiB | 154.00 KiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (410/410), done.

real1m3.407s
user0m2.092s
sys0m0.940s


ktenney@delly:/tmp$ time git clone https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor
Cloning into 'leo-editor'...
remote: Counting objects: 121841, done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (340/340), done.
remote: Total 121841 (delta 245), reused 203 (delta 69), pack-reused 121432
Receiving objects: 100% (121841/121841), 140.73 MiB | 170.00 KiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (94862/94862), done.

real14m24.684s
user1m12.704s
sys0m12.904s


On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 10:51 PM, Matt Wilkie  wrote:

> Somebody (Kent?) posted a git clone command that was faster than the
> typical:
>
>  git clone https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor.git
>
> I think it involved telling git there was no need to go back to the
> beginning of time, just the previous N months. Or something?
>
> matt
>
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Re: How big is Leo on disk?

[Kent Tenney]

Hey kids, I was thrilled when I got a machine with 2! 5"
floppies, boot disk AND data disk!

get off my lawn

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

> On Thu, 7 Dec 2017 13:00:14 -0800
> Matt Wilkie  wrote:
>
> > *(Who remembers buying his first hard drive for $$$. A 330mb scsi disk
>
> Heh, I paid $$$ for a 20 Mb (yes, megabyte) hard disk.  And now you can
> get a 128 Gb microSD card for < $25 USD.
>
> For anyone wondering what you could possibly do with a 20 Mb drive,
> apps. and games were all much less than 1 Mb back then, so it was quite
> useful.
>
> Another place Leo can consume a lot of disk space is in the .leo folder
> in your home directory - old db cache entries can add up a lot.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: anyAtFileNodeName question

[Kent Tenney]

Thank you!

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:12 PM, vitalije  wrote:

> You can use:
> c.getNodeFileName(p)
>
>
> to get the full path.
> Vitalije
>
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anyAtFileNodeName question

[Kent Tenney]

if current node is
@auto /a/b/c.txt

anyAtFileNodeName() returns /a/b/c.txt

if current node is
@path a
  @path b
 @auto c.txt

the return is c.txt

Does Leo have a command for getting the fully qualified name,
or do I need to ascend the tree?

Thanks,
Kent

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Re: Merging leo_edit_pane into master?

[Kent Tenney]

Really liking edit-pane-test-open, what a great set of features:
track, goto, update ...

I'm not missing persistence at all, so,
... nevermind ...

:-]

Thanks,
Kent

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 05:07:27 -0500
> "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:
>
> > ​Work for me.  Could you add an "about" or "help" item, say in the
> > "More" dropdown, explaining as clearly as possible what this pane is
> > supposed to demonstrate, and what your plans are for it?
>
> Not sure about / help is really the place for such a design document,
> but I'll work towards something like that somewhere.
>
> Short answer, it's supposed to
>
>  - be a better solution for multiple body editors
>  - grand re-unified view-rendered v. 4.0
>  - contribute to features like multi-node editing and input / output
>views c.f. Jupyter "cells", is such things exist
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: Merging leo_edit_pane into master?

[Kent Tenney]

either my memory persists or Leo persists.
Smart money is on Leo.

I might not even want persistence: clean slate
each session, looking forward to playing with multiples

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Terry Brown <terrynbr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:16:21 -0500
> Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is this the code which offers persistent multiple edit panes?
>
> Ah Kent, you and your persistent insistence on persistence :-)
>
> Multiple, but not currently persistent, although that's a relatively
> short term goal.
>
> This is a bit complicated by the orthogonal free_layout -> QDock
> replacement project, layout persistence is an issue there.
>
> Perhaps a stop gap would be a command that explicitly saves / opens a
> set of leo_edit_panes.  I know that sounds like the whole point of
> persistence, but long term the goal would be for it to be less
> explicit.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: Merging leo_edit_pane into master?

[Kent Tenney]

Is this the code which offers persistent multiple edit panes?

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Edward K. Ream 
wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Edward K. Ream 
> wrote:
>
> ​> ​
> ​I'll run my typical tests in the branch and let you know soon.
>
> ​Here are some minor problems.​
>
> ​1. @test batch mode sometimes fails in your branch, but I think it's a
> problem with leo.core.leoQt. For now, let's ignore this.
>
> 2. Pylint reports the following:
>
> * Module leo.core.editpane.leotextedit
> W:  3, 0: Unused QtConst imported from leo.core.leoQt (unused-import)
> W:  4, 0: Unused LeoHighlighter imported from leo.core.leoColorizer
> (unused-import)
> W:  7, 0: Unused import time (unused-import)
> .* Module leo.core.leoApp
> W: 31, 0: Unused import leo.core.editpane.editpane (unused-import)
> .74 files, time:
> 434.28 sec.​
>
> To run these tests, I made a temporary change to class LinterTable in
> leoTest.py.  I'll make the changes permanent once the code gets merged into
> master.
>
> 3. LeoPyRef.leo does not contain any of the new files, and there are no
> sentinels in any of the files.
>
> Were you using @clean?  In LeoPyRef.leo, please add @file nodes under the
> node
>
> Code-->Qt gui
>
> For example:
>
> @file editpane/editpane.py
>
> ​4. I didn't run any other tests, nor did I notice any difference in Leo's
> operation. What should I be looking for?
>
> Edward​
>
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Re: The plan for the near future

[Kent Tenney]

Python 3.7 may offer some assistance here
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0553/

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Edward K. Ream <edream...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The feature I'd like to see in some shape or form is
>> breakpoints/stepping/inspection
>>
>
> ​A reasonable request.  I've just created #558
> <https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/558>. This would be a
> major project, but it's well worth doing.​
>
>
>> There's a gap between
>> import pdb; pdb.set_trace()
>>
>> and the IDEs which assume all development roles: editor, project
>> management etc.
>>
>
> ​In Leo you can use g.pdb(), provided that g is available.​
>
> ​The gap isn't as large as you might think, but I agree that it would be
> good for Leo's body pane to support breakpoints.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: The plan for the near future

[Kent Tenney]

I'm developing a workflow with Leo at the helm, it's working
well, managing my issues with multiple machines and locations.
Based on lsyncd for synchronization, and tmuxp for program launching.

The feature I'd like to see in some shape or form is
breakpoints/stepping/inspection, something not in ipython/jupyter,
but found in the IDEs
https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments

There's a gap between
import pdb; pdb.set_trace()

and the IDEs which assume all development roles: editor, project management
etc.

If Leo could provide 'run to cursor' and then 'step over' 'step into',
while displaying a window showing value of selected variables ...
I for one, would be tickled.

Thanks,
Kent







On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On vacation I kept thoughts about near-term plans in the background.  When
> I returned the plan became clear.
>
> *Goals*
>
> 1. Make it easier for users to switch between Leo and other programs,
> especially Leo and Emacs (org mode) and Jupyter. See #477
> .
>
> 2. Provide all significant features of org mode and Jupyter within Leo. See
> #414 .
>
> I considered a client/server architecture for Leo. I am going to reject
> that approach for now.  Jupyter provides those capabilities if desired.
>
> *Actions*
>
> My plan is simple: to read the *user* docs for org mode, ipython and
> jupyter, looking for features that Leo presently lacks.  There is little
> point in reading *dev* docs for these programs, except in special
> circumstances.  Leo's "ecology" is significantly richer than other IDE's,
> so the implementation of features within Leo will be quite different from
> in Emacs or IPython/Jupyter, again, except for special cases.
>
> *Consequences*
>
> The browser world continues to develop at a rapid pace, but I see little
> advantage in trying to do Leo in a browser.  The security implications
> alone seem daunting.  Instead, I'll continue to focus on the python world,
> looking for continuous incremental improvement.
>
> Reading the user docs has already given me several ideas:
>
> - As Kent (and others) have requested, it would be good to support
> @language python2 and @language python3, to support specific interpreters.
>
> - Ctrl-B (execute-script) should execute languages other than python in
> separate processes. This includes JavaScript.  And Ctrl-B should could also
> be extended to run python scripts in a separate process.  This should be
> straightforward.  Leo already has the infrastructure to run pylint in a
> separate process.
>
> - It *might* be good to supply arguments to scripts, as in org mode
> #+BEGIN_SRC blocks.
>
> - Providing some IPython/Jupyter features will almost certainly be a good
> idea.
>
> *Conclusions*
>
> For the foreseeable future Leo will remain a desktop app, based on Python,
>
> My focus will be on better cooperation and competition with org mode and
> IPython/Jupyter.
>
> 2018 may see the completion of the work discussed here.  I have no plans
> to stop working on Leo.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Improved 'extract' command

[Kent Tenney]

one for each @file @auto @clean ...
one for @path
one for @button
one for @menu
one for 
...
...
one which says "so many features even Edward can't keep up"

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 11:09 AM, Edward K. Ream 
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:47 AM, vitalije  wrote:
>
>>
>>> ​Have you tried parse-body?  It uses Leo's importer code for the
>>> @language in effect, if one exists. See the node "ic.parse_body & helper".
>>> This should save you lots of work for the
>>>
>>
>> I wasn't aware of this command. I will definitely try it. It is just
>> another example how many cool things there are in Leo which even after 10+
>> years of using Leo one can easily miss.
>>
>
> ​Another way to the same thing is to use @auto the first time and then
> convert @auto to @file.​
>
>>
>> Having said that, one editor feature came in to my mind. One of the
>> editors that I used before (not sure which one), had this feature: to show
>> tips on usage on start-up. Every time it starts it would greet a user with
>> a window with something like: "Did you know that you can use ... to achieve
>> " along with link to the page in documentation explaining further this
>> feature. I remember discovering some very useful features that way. I
>> suppose it wouldn't be too complicated to make such feature in Leo, but
>> those short tips are to be written and collected first.
>>
>
> ​Good idea.  The first items on this list would be bookmarks.py and cff.
> Then maybe tab completion in the minibuffer.
>
> Any other candidates?
>
> Edward
>
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Re: NEW: cloud storage plugin for Leo

[Kent Tenney]

I've settled on lsyncd https://github.com/axkibe/lsyncd
It will transparently maintain one or more mirrors of a directory tree.
Just what I want, with minimal effort.

Thanks,
Kent

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Terry Brown <terrynbr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:53:10 -0500
> Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > For the 2nd one I'm using the Gvim scp capability:
> > # gvim scp://user@server//path/to/files/
> >
> > I've been looking at kludges which would mimic vim's scp://
> > capability while working from Leo, they mostly involve rsync and
> > inotify,
>
> Take a look at Jake's sftp plugin, I think that's basically what that
> does.  I don't think there's much real difference between sftp and scp.
>
> It adds @sftp nodes.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: On vacation until October 22

[Kent Tenney]

Safe travels, have fun.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Edward K. Ream 
wrote:

> Rebecca and I will be traveling to the national parks in the southwest.
> We leave tomorrow and will return no later than October 22.
>
> I'll have a laptop with me, but Leo is in very capable hands until then :-)
>
> The last two month has been a time of many transitions.  All good, but
> they were distractions.  I am eager to get back to Leo when I return.
>
> Edward
>
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@path exception

[Kent Tenney]

Leo Log Window
Leo 5.6, build 20170927102346, Wed, Sep 27, 2017 10:23:46 AM
Git repo info: branch = master, commit = fb9f38601881
Python 3.5.2, PyQt version 5.9.1
linux
isPython3: True
caching enabled


- create node
@path /to/the/dir

dclick the icon

files and dirs appear

rclick node @path /to/the/dir
choose path=>active-path-set-path-to-absolute-path-recursive

crashes with:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/opt/fetching/leo-editor/leo/plugins/active_path.py", line 186, in
active_path_wrapper
command(event)
  File "/opt/fetching/leo-editor/leo/plugins/active_path.py", line 712, in
cmd_SetNodeToAbsolutePathRecursive
cmd_SetNodeToAbsolutePath(c, p=s)
  File "/opt/fetching/leo-editor/leo/plugins/active_path.py", line 717, in
cmd_SetNodeToAbsolutePath
c = event.get('c')
AttributeError: 'Commands' object has no attribute 'get'

Thanks,
Kent

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Re: NEW: cloud storage plugin for Leo

[Kent Tenney]

I've been looking at a couple syncing issues:
- between work and home (I currently schlep a laptop back and forth)
- between my comfortable, tweaked, gui workstation using heavily
  customized Leo, and files of interest on bare bone servers.

leo_cloud looks like it will address the first one very nicely.
I's a big deal.

For the 2nd one I'm using the Gvim scp capability:
# gvim scp://user@server//path/to/files/

I've been looking at kludges which would mimic vim's scp://
capability while working from Leo, they mostly involve rsync and inotify,

If I was a better programmer I'd try to write
@scp-auto and @scp-clean file types.

Just saying.

Thanks,
Kent


On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

> The new leo_cloud plugin allows subtrees within a .leo file to be
> stored in the cloud.  It should be possible to support various cloud
> platforms, currently git is supported (i.e. you can use GitLab or
> GitHub or your own remote git server).
>
> A leo_cloud subtree has a top node with a headline that starts with
> '@leo_cloud'.  The rest of the headline is ignored.  The body of this
> top node is used to describe the cloud service, e.g.:
>
> type: Git
> remote: g...@gitlab.com:tnbrown/leo_cloud_storage.git
> local: ~/.leo/leo_cloud/gitlab_leo_cloud_storage
> ID: shortcuts
> read_on_load: ask
> write_on_save: ask
>
> The first three lines can be repeated with different IDs to store
> different subtrees at the same remote cloud location.
>
> read_on_load: / write_on_save: can be yes, no, or ask.  If it's not one
> of those three, there's a warning dialog.
>
> There's also a file system backend, which would look like this:
>
> type: FileSystem
> root: ~/DropBox/leo_cloud
> ID: my_notes
> read_on_load: ask
> write_on_save: ask
>
> The FileSystem backend was meant to be for development, but of course
> if you map it into a folder that is sync'ed externally, as shown above,
> it can serve as a cloud adapter too.
>
> In addition to the Git and FileSystem cloud types it should be possible
> to add many others - Google Drive, OneDrive, DropBox, AWS, WebDAV,
> sFTP, whatever.
>
> Note: https://gitlab.com/ gives you free private repos., in case you
> didn't know.
>
> The data stored is basically headline, body, and uA (unknown
> attributes).  The caveat is that it must be JSON serializable, this is
> to avoid pickle flavor issues.  I don't think this will cause problems
> except for legacy datetime objects from the todo.py plugin and set()s
> in the tags plugin.  I think both can be fixed easily - a custom JSON
> writer can write datetime as iso string time and sets as lists, and the
> tags plugin can coerce lists to sets.  I think the todo.py plugin
> already reads iso string time values.
>
> My intended use was a common synchronized todo list across machines,
> which this achieves.  (note to self, make sure todo icons are refreshed
> properly).
>
> An unintended bonus is that you can use it to sync. your settings
> across machines easily too.  Because Leo is brilliant ;-), this:
>
> @settings
>   @keys
> @leo_cloud
>   @shortcuts
>
> "just works", so now your shortcuts etc. can be stored on a central
> server.
>
> Lightly tested, but seems to work - testing and other feedback
> appreciated.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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OT but interesting project

[Kent Tenney]

Browser-based web development platform built entirely in PostgreSQL
https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/449

An interview with the author of Aquameta:
http://aquameta.com

It's not typical DB stuff, lots of innovative thinking.

Thanks,
Kent

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Re: .db files: how useful are they?

[Kent Tenney]

How does one use the new db backend?
is it config, command line option, default ... ?

I haven't pulled for a while, there were some warnings
Is current master considered safe?

Thanks,
Kent

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> Representing .leo files as .db files is an important new capability.  It's
> going to stay, because using .db files is completely optional.
>
> However, I am not clear what their advantage is. On my (fast) machine, the
> difference in load times is negligible:
>
> - Loading 3 .db files and 1 .leo file: 7.63 sec
> - Loading the corresponding 4 .leo files: 7.71 sec.
>
> There are two drawbacks to using .db files:
>
> 1. .leo files are human readable, .db files are not (without special
> tools).
> 2. There is no automatic way to keep .db and .leo files in sync.
>
> Should we keep two copies of each "reference" file around: LeoPyRef.db and
> LeoPyRef.leo?
>
> I dislike this work flow, and would prefer just to maintain only
> LeoPyRef.leo in Leo's repo.  Ditto for all other reference .leo files.
>
> Your comments, please.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Vote: display trailing whitespace by default?

[Kent Tenney]

same (I voted yes on the poll)

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:32 AM, vitalije  wrote:

> +1 for displaying by default
>
>
> On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 4:45:39 PM UTC+2, Terry Brown wrote:
>>
>> Hi - I've added a syntax highlighting rule to Leo to display trailing
>> whitespace, which is the default in some editors, nano for example.
>>
>> The trailing whitespace is shown underlined with small red dots,
>> although you can change the color.
>>
>> So what's the consensus - have this turned on by default, or not?
>>
>> We can discuss in this list, but if you just want to vote yes or no,
>> here's a poll:
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1xrrUYTNcfK6Fvu3_HTEkmzF1O7p
>> PscGwWs9oFxg2Bv0
>>
>> Cheers -Terry
>>
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Re: How good Leo handles settings?

[Kent Tenney]

>setting: long - primary key for settings table
>name: text - setting name
>body: text - text data for setting for docs. and @data settings
>type: long - link to types table (@bool, @int, @data, etc.)
>parent: long - link to settings table for hierarchy
>outline: long - link to outline table

Hows about a 'scope' field: one of
default, global, user, curdir, fname

which are listed by increasing weight ...
the 'fname' one would allow specifying settings for a file without touching
it,
which strikes me as kind of cool.

Maybe that's what is accomplished by the 'parent' and 'outline' fields, if
so, please ignore this.





On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

> On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 12:48:06 -0700 (PDT)
> vitalije  wrote:
>
> > > ​I would be happy with that, provided that a) settings can be
> > > organized
> > >> and b) per-document (.leo file) settings are possible.​ ​ The best
> > >> way of organizing anything is in a .leo file.​
> > >
> > As I wrote in the earlier post today, it is trivial in sqlite to
> > open connection to several different databases (files). So it is easy
> > to have one database file for settings machine wide, another one for
> > settings per user, and yet another one for settings per folder (if I
> > am not mistaken there used to be possible for user to define settings
> > per project/folder, although I have never used that possibility). It
> > is easy to make script to dump all relevant (leo,
> > myLeo) settings-files in separate databases.
>
> The docs. on settings location are here:
> http://leoeditor.com/customizing.html#id3
>
> not 100% sure but I assume `homeDir` is ~/.leo or $HOME\.leo and
> `configDir` is .../leo/config/, and `localDir` is the folder containing
> the .leo file.
>
> Hmm, I'd forgotten about the machine-name variation, although it can be
> very useful when the same filesystem is accessed from different
> hardware setups.
>
> Essential: 1a, 2b, 3
> Consider dropping: 1b, 1c, 2a - really when would you use these?
> Useful: 2c, 2d - 2d when you want .leo files in a folder to share
>  settings
>
> So there's a question of when to use separate DB files vs. info. in the
> DB to separate contexts.
>
> 1a and 2b would obviously be their own DB files, with a search that
> fails in 2b being repeated in 1a, trusting for now that that won't be a
> performance issue.
>
> 3 is trickier.  We're going to (ok, proposing to ;-) separate the
> settings data from the rest of the .leo file(*).  Managing two files
> side by side seems obnoxious, from the users point of view.  I think it
> would be better to put the outline specific info. in the same DB as
> used for 2b (e.g. ~/.leo/myLeoSettings.sqlite3).  So the setting table
> might look like:
>
> setting: long - primary key for settings table
> name: text - setting name
> body: text - text data for setting for docs. and @data settings
> type: long - link to types table (@bool, @int, @data, etc.)
> parent: long - link to settings table for hierarchy
> outline: long - link to outline table
>
> We'd start by looking at c.db to see how the outline table might manage
> outline identities.
>
> (*) this separation is a high cost thing.  It means the user can't just
> move the .leo file to another system and have that file's local
> settings follow along.  This is consistent with myLeoSettings.leo also
> not following along, but still seems like a regression.
>
> Which suggests that at least for file local settings we might want to
> continue to support .leo file @settings trees.  Hmm.
>
> That leads to wanting to make .leo file @settings trees more writable
> than they are now, which leads to the possibility of using Leo outlines
> rather than sqlite as a storage format.  Before this is interpreted as
> scraping the idea completely, I'll point out the leosax.py module which
> reads .leo files into a light weight dict representation of an outline
> many many times faster than Leo's regular read code.  It ignores
> external files, and is read only.
>
> Alternatives are
>
> (a) keeping the .leo and settings DBs side by side,
> something.leo and something.leo.settings.sqlite?
> (b) embedding the sqlite data in a the .leo XML file -
> that seems like a horrible idea.
>
> So I think the question of the cost of separating file-local settings
> from the .leo file is an issue here.  It sort of runs contrary to the
> idea of XML, which should allow everything to be in one file.
>
> But anything that deviates from simple vanilla use of sqlite DB files
> starts to lose the simplicity gain.  Hmm.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
>
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Simplest thing

[Kent Tenney]

>Discovering the simplest thing that could possibly work is *not*
>necessarily straightforward, and I don't believe I ever implied it was.

And I evidently implied it is, the opposite of what I meant to say.
I read 'the simplest thing that could possibly work' as the best
possible solution to the problem, and absolutes give me the willies:
I'm one who knocks on wood.

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks,
Kent

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Re: ENB: Severe problems switching between git branches

[Kent Tenney]

I'm not up on the specifics, but folks seem excited about language
improvements available in 3.6, at some point in time it will make
sense to use those features, resulting in code that won't work on 2.7.
The tipping point if not now, near. That's what I meant.



On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:07 AM, Edward K. Ream <edream...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 at 9:20:42 AM UTC-5, Kent Tenney wrote:
>>
>> "the simplest thing that could possibly work"
>>
>
>
>> always makes me cringe, since it implies a grasp of All Possibilities,
>> I settle for a bit of complexity collapse.
>>
>
> Imo, the principle encourages us to avoid complexity, not to imagine all
> the complex possibilities! It suggests starting with the simplest thing
> that comes to mind, not the most complex.
>
>
>> Considering a re-write of core code sounds exciting, in addition to
>> desired
>> improvements, opportunity to make core more accessible to hacking by
>> non Edward/Terry folk.
>>
>
> I'm afraid that you hope in vain.  The read code is never going to be
> easy.
>
> In fact, I plan to change as little as possible of the read code.
>
> Write to 3.6? It seems we're at the point has been tipped towards it.
>>
>
> I don't understand this.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Rev 42135f: toggle-at-auto-at-edit command

[Kent Tenney]

Cool, having fun switching from " command" to shortcuts.

Thanks,
Kent

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Terry Brown <terrynbr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 13:31:47 -0500
> Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Well that's getting a key binding.
> >
> > Must admit ... how to add a key binding?
> >
> > Tried
> > @settings
> >   @keys
> >   toggle-at-auto-at-edit = F5
>
> @settings
>   @keys
> @shortcuts
>toggle-at-auto-at-edit = F5
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
> > but that didn't do it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kent
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Terry Brown <terrynbr...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 02:15:27 -0700 (PDT)
> > > "Edward K. Ream" <edream...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > This completes #482
> > > > <https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/482>, one of the
> > > > Ashland items.  This command is surprisingly useful.  It toggles
> > > > between a flattened view (@edit) and an outline view (@auto) of an
> > > > external file containing no sentinels.
> > >
> > > Well that's getting a key binding.  Extremely useful.  Thanks Kent
> > > for the idea and Edward for the implementation.  My two common use
> > > cases, where some directory import has imported files as @auto or
> > > @edit when I would (perhaps later) prefer the other, and for one
> > > pager programs imported as @auto where @edit makes more sense.
> > >
> > > Cheers -Terry
> > >
> > > > As Kent pointed out when we met in Ashland, the real value added
> > > > by this command is preserving the presently selected line when
> > > > flattening/un-flattening the outline. To make this useful in
> > > > practice, you can run this command from any descendant of an @auto
> > > > node. There aren't any descendants of @edit trees :-)
> > > >
> > > > The code is just a bit tricky.  Please report any problems.
> > > >
> > > > Edward
> > >
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Re: ENB: Severe problems switching between git branches

[Kent Tenney]

"the simplest thing that could possibly work"
always makes me cringe, since it implies a grasp of All Possibilities,
I settle for a bit of complexity collapse.
:-]

Considering a re-write of core code sounds exciting, in addition to desired
improvements, opportunity to make core more accessible to hacking by
non Edward/Terry folk.

Write to 3.6? It seems we're at the point has been tipped towards it.

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Terry Brown 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure refresh - from - disk is immune to these problems. Nothing
>> specific, sorry, but I feel like I've seen it so some of the headline /
>> recovered node type stuff. Not sure though. Surely it uses a lot of the
>> same read code?
>>
>
> ​Yes.  refresh-from-disk just deletes all the children of the root node
> and then calls the appropriate atFile helper.
> ​
>
>
>> Perhaps assessing the differences between @ types is important?
>>
>
> I tried to indicate my own uncertainties with parenthetical question. The
> initial post, and the comments in #505, are merely starting points.
>
> Certainly the differences between @ types is important, but I
> suspect that @file is the acid test.
>
> I have two new tools at my disposal since writing the code so long ago.
> One is the principle of "the simplest thing that could possibly work".  The
> other is cff.  I am confident that Leo's new read code will be much better
> than the old. It's worth any amount of effort.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Rev 42135f: toggle-at-auto-at-edit command

[Kent Tenney]

> Well that's getting a key binding.

Must admit ... how to add a key binding?

Tried
@settings
  @keys
  toggle-at-auto-at-edit = F5

but that didn't do it.

Thanks,
Kent

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Terry Brown  wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 02:15:27 -0700 (PDT)
> "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:
>
> > This completes #482
> > , one of the
> > Ashland items.  This command is surprisingly useful.  It toggles
> > between a flattened view (@edit) and an outline view (@auto) of an
> > external file containing no sentinels.
>
> Well that's getting a key binding.  Extremely useful.  Thanks Kent for
> the idea and Edward for the implementation.  My two common use cases,
> where some directory import has imported files as @auto or @edit when I
> would (perhaps later) prefer the other, and for one pager programs
> imported as @auto where @edit makes more sense.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
> > As Kent pointed out when we met in Ashland, the real value added by
> > this command is preserving the presently selected line when
> > flattening/un-flattening the outline. To make this useful in
> > practice, you can run this command from any descendant of an @auto
> > node. There aren't any descendants of @edit trees :-)
> >
> > The code is just a bit tricky.  Please report any problems.
> >
> > Edward
> >
>
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Re: Closed, won't do: #483: remember toggle-split-direction

[Kent Tenney]

Currently I create a bookmark node, toggle split direction, adjust to taste,
then rclick border and choose 'save layout'

Provides the persistence I want.


On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> We discussed #483 
> in Ashland. I don't recall the discussion in detail, but I have given this
> issue careful thought.  Here is what I said when closing the issue and
> marking it "Won't Do":
>
> QQQ
> After careful consideration, I believe that the initial_split_orientation
> setting is enough. The toggle-split-direction command is merely a
> convenience. Users can change setting either in individual .leo files or in
> myLeoSettings.leo.
>
> There are far more important things to attend to. Please reopen only if
> you can explain a) why this issue is important and b) how to resolve the
> difficulties discussed [at the start of #483].
> QQQ
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Rev 42135f: toggle-at-auto-at-edit command

[Kent Tenney]

One of these days I'll finish baking some half-baked ones.
:-]

I've been scrambling in preparation for our daughters wedding next weekend,
but this new Leo stuff really needs looking into!

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Terry Brown 
> wrote:
>
> Well that's getting a key binding.  Extremely useful.  Thanks Kent for
>> the idea and Edward for the implementation.
>
>
> ​You're welcome. What would we do without Kent and his crazy ideas that
> aren't crazy after all?
>
> Edward
>
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Re: OT: Time for a Linux laptop

[Kent Tenney]

Interesting, the other distro was reinventing install, poorly.

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 5:45 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 10:20:11 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> My Lenovo T460s now runs both Windows 10 and Ubuntu. I bought Windows 10
> on a stick, hehe, to ensure it would always be available.  Worth the price,
> imo.  It was actually easier to install Ubuntu than reinstall Windows 10.
> I had to download the Windows 10 networking drivers from another machine
> after installation.
>
> Note to Kent: The trick to getting *any* Linux distro to display properly
> on high-res machines is to set the magnification in the display settings to
> 1.5 or above. I was being unfair to the other distro, whose name I can't
> remember.  Otoh, the unnamed other distro did hose Windows, whereas Ubuntu
> did not.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: unicode errors with LeoBridge

[Kent Tenney]

fixed.

I was on leo_edit_pane branch, so hadn't seen the fix

checked out master
pull
confirm fix
checkout leo_edit_pane
merge master

leoBridge unicode error is fixed in leo_edit_pane

Obvious to most, but a pleasant surprise to me.
Always somewhat jarring when something works.


On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 7:17 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> Rev 023713e fixes #475 and it probably will fix this as well.
>
> Please let me know if there are further problems.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: HTML 5 Leo Viewer

[Kent Tenney]

I've done some work with Brython, really cool code, heavily developed,
good community.

As I understand, Brython is further distanced from JS than Transcript,
more thoroughly Pythonic. Better for me, maybe not as good for
someone knowing JS.

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 6:47 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 7:58 PM, Eric S. Johansson  > wrote:
>
> you do know about brython (python 3 in browser)?  it keeps me from having
>> to touch too much JS but still lets me interoperate with it when I need to.
>>  if you want a browser based leo, it may be a place to start.
>>
>
> ​Thanks for this link.  And this stack overflow page
>  discusses the pros and cons
> between brython and transcript .​
>
> ​I hadn't heard of either brython or transcript before today :-)
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Notes from the Ashland get together

[Kent Tenney]

Edward seemed to imply he's not a huge fan of javascript ...

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 6:34 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 7:37 PM, Joe Orr  wrote:
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 5:12:30 PM UTC-4, Terry Brown wrote:
>>
> ​...​
>
>
>> Current plan is to finish main features for the reader and then make a
>> server. The server could start with just simple writes, maybe even creating
>> basic trees with no directives. Then we can see how hard it is to wrap the
>> Leo python code and have this talk to the gui. (You're welcome to fork the
>> viewer and start trying things).
>>
>
> ​Are you talking about converting Leo's core code to javascript?
>
> Edward
>
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Re: ENB: Curses prototype: phase 2 design and process

[Kent Tenney]

or https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/


On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 7:11 AM, Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It might be worth biting the bullet, buying a commercial IDE like
> https://wingware.com/
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 6:51 AM, john lunzer <lun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ahh, I'm sorry to have suggested urwid. I totally forgot about the Linux
>> only limitation.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 7:24:11 AM UTC-4, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:56:29 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ok.  Misleading 'help attach' and error message confused me for awhile.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, I mis-remembered what I had just done!
>>>
>>> In the second console, first do:
>>>
>>> password 
>>>
>>> Then do:
>>>
>>> attach
>>>
>>> to get a list of pid's. Then do:
>>>
>>> attach 
>>>
>>> to actually attach to the first console.
>>>
>>> This *does* work, but alas rpdb2 doesn't print *anything* useful after
>>> single-stepping, so I'm always having to type l (list).  So using the
>>> winpdb gui version is probably best after all.
>>>
>>> I've just tried to use rpdb2 in both consoles on Windows.  There is a
>>> problem connecting to the newly-created server on localhost.  Something
>>> about a timeout.  Not sure if this is a programming problem (fctrl?) or a
>>> firewall problem.  However, there is no great need to do debugging on
>>> Windows.
>>>
>>> In short, urwid doesn't seem to work on Windows, but npyscreen runs
>>> anywhere and can be debugged on Linux with rpdb2 and winpdb.  I'd say this
>>> is a good enough resolution to the problem of what curses widgets to use.
>>>
>>> Edward
>>>
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Re: ENB: Curses prototype: phase 2 design and process

[Kent Tenney]

It might be worth biting the bullet, buying a commercial IDE like
https://wingware.com/


On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 6:51 AM, john lunzer  wrote:

> Ahh, I'm sorry to have suggested urwid. I totally forgot about the Linux
> only limitation.
>
>
> On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 7:24:11 AM UTC-4, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>> On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:56:29 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok.  Misleading 'help attach' and error message confused me for awhile.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, I mis-remembered what I had just done!
>>
>> In the second console, first do:
>>
>> password 
>>
>> Then do:
>>
>> attach
>>
>> to get a list of pid's. Then do:
>>
>> attach 
>>
>> to actually attach to the first console.
>>
>> This *does* work, but alas rpdb2 doesn't print *anything* useful after
>> single-stepping, so I'm always having to type l (list).  So using the
>> winpdb gui version is probably best after all.
>>
>> I've just tried to use rpdb2 in both consoles on Windows.  There is a
>> problem connecting to the newly-created server on localhost.  Something
>> about a timeout.  Not sure if this is a programming problem (fctrl?) or a
>> firewall problem.  However, there is no great need to do debugging on
>> Windows.
>>
>> In short, urwid doesn't seem to work on Windows, but npyscreen runs
>> anywhere and can be debugged on Linux with rpdb2 and winpdb.  I'd say this
>> is a good enough resolution to the problem of what curses widgets to use.
>>
>> Edward
>>
>> --
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Re: ENB: Curses prototype: phase 2 design and process

[Kent Tenney]

possibly logging would help?
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/devpy

provides logging with one line of code, maybe the useful message gets
logged before the terminal is lost ...

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Edward K. Ream 
wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:12 AM, john lunzer  wrote:
>
> I realize you're doing this as an exercise but if you're getting
>> frustrated with npyscreen (I also think the docs are a little sparse) there
>> is always urwid, which I think has much better documentation. It's also got
>> all the widgets necessary for Leo.
>>
>
> ​Thanks for the reminder. Now would be a good time to investigate urwid.
>
> I'm having trouble getting control of npyscreen keystrokes in a useful
> way. The biggest challenge is debugging. Both prints (sys.stdout.write) and
> g.pdb scroll the npyscreen stuff off the console!
>
> Edward
>
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unicode errors with LeoBridge

[Kent Tenney]

commit 96ac59bcb521b52df5fe66a2438808db8f2de29d

# get a controller
In [11]: lc = leoBridge.controller()

# open a file
In [11]: leof = lc.openLeoFile('pged.leo')


---
TypeError Traceback (most recent call last)
 in ()
> 1 leof = lc.openLeoFile('pged.leo')

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoBridge.py in
openLeoFile(self, fileName)
312 if self.isOpen():
313 fileName = self.completeFileName(fileName)
--> 314 c = self.createFrame(fileName)
315 g.app.nodeIndices.compute_last_index(c)
316 # New in Leo 5.1. An alternate fix for bug #130.

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoBridge.py in
createFrame(self, fileName)
346 import time; t1 = time.time()
347 # This takes a long time due to imports in
c.__init__
--> 348 c = g.openWithFileName(fileName)
349 if trace:
350 t2 = time.time()

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoGlobals.py in
openWithFileName(fileName, old_c, gui)
   3244 returns the commander of the newly-opened outline.
   3245 """
-> 3246 return g.app.loadManager.loadLocalFile(fileName, gui, old_c)
   3247 #@+node:ekr.20150306035851.7: *3* g.readFileIntoEncodedString
   3248 def readFileIntoEncodedString(fn, silent=False):

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoApp.py in
loadLocalFile(self, fn, gui, old_c)
   2874 # Step 2: open the outline in the requested gui.
   2875 # For .leo files (and zipped .leo file) this opens the file
a second time.
-> 2876 c = lm.openFileByName(fn, gui, old_c, previousSettings)
   2877 return c
   2878 #@+node:ekr.20120223062418.10394: *5* LM.openFileByName &
helpers

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoApp.py in
openFileByName(self, fn, gui, old_c, previousSettings)
   2911 readAtFileNodesFlag = bool(previousSettings)
   2912 # The log is not set properly here.
-> 2913 ok = lm.readOpenedLeoFile(c, fn, readAtFileNodesFlag,
theFile)
   2914 # Call c.fileCommands.openLeoFile to read the .leo
file.
   2915 if not ok: return None

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoApp.py in
readOpenedLeoFile(self, c, fn, readAtFileNodesFlag, theFile)
   3081 # lm = self
   3082 ok = c.fileCommands.openLeoFile(theFile, fn,
-> 3083 readAtFileNodesFlag=readAtFileNodesFlag)
   3084 # closes file.
   3085 if ok:

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoFileCommands.py in
openLeoFile(self, theFile, fileName, readAtFileNodesFlag, silent)
831 theFile, fileName,
832 readAtFileNodesFlag=readAtFileNodesFlag,
--> 833 silent=silent,
834 )
835 if ok:

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoFileCommands.py in
getLeoFile(self, theFile, fileName, readAtFileNodesFlag, silent,
checkOpenFiles)
665 # This is important for big files like
LeoPy.leo.
666 c.redraw()
--> 667 recoveryNode = fc.readExternalFiles(fileName)
668 finally:
669 if g.app.debug: g.trace('=',

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoFileCommands.py in
readExternalFiles(self, fileName)
797 # the @thin nodes!
798 fc.restoreDescendentAttributes()
--> 799 fc.setPositionsFromVnodes()
800 return recoveryNode
801 #@+node:ekr.20031218072017.1554: *6* fc.warnOnReadOnlyFiles

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoFileCommands.py in
setPositionsFromVnodes(self)
   1347 use_db = g.enableDB and c.mFileName
   1348 if use_db:
-> 1349 str_pos = c.cacher.getCachedStringPosition()
   1350 if trace: g.trace('cached str_pos', str_pos)
   1351 if not str_pos:

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoCache.py in
getCachedStringPosition(self)
254 if not c:
255 return g.internalError('no commander')
--> 256 key = self.fileKey(c.mFileName, self.globals_tag)
257 str_pos = self.db.get('current_position_%s' % key)
258 if trace: g.trace(c.shortFileName(), str_pos)

/opt/venv/newtdb/lib/python3.5/site-packages/leo/core/leoCache.py in
fileKey(self, fileName, content, requireEncodedString)
132 if branch and g.isUnicode(branch):
133 branch = g.toEncodedString(branch)
--> 134 m.update(branch)
135 m.update(fileName)
136 m.update(content)

TypeError: Unicode-objects must be encoded before hashing

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Re: ENB: 20 years of lint removed from leoAtFile.py

[Kent Tenney]

Looking forward to it!

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 4:04 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Edward K. Ream 
> wrote:
>
> *tl;dr:* Many switches in methods of the AtFile class were confusing or
>> unnecessary.  The new code is now as simple as I can make it.  Afaik, there
>> are no more "huh?"s left.
>>
>
> ​To repeat something I've said several times recently, this work required
> all the major tools available to me:
> clone-find commands, git, pylint and pyflakes:
>
> - git makes everything safe.
> - pyflakes catches almost errors immediately.
> - pylint catches more subtle errors that sometimes escape unit tests.
> - Leo's clone-find commands revealed global patterns quickly.
>
> I would not have attempted this work without git and the clone-find
> commands. The latter allow me to answer complex questions about code
> quickly. I can then reorganize the searches for even greater clarity.
>
> I'm hoping to convince Terry and Kent at our upcoming meeting that the
> clone-find commands are worth using.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Unified views? Unify the outline and body panes?

[Kent Tenney]

That is really cool!

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:49 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:45:25 -0500
> Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking at a copy of leo_edit_pane branch: what is required
> > to see the new code in action?
>
> Here's the relevant paste from an earlier email:
>
>
> To open a LEP you need to tell free_layout about them.  I still want to
> replace free_layout with Qt's docks, but for now free_layout is how you
> add panes of any kind.  To do that you need to run this script once (I
> have it on a @script node):
>
> from leo.core.editpane import editpane
> if g.isPython3:
> from importlib import reload
>
> class MinimalDemoProvider:
> def ns_provides(self):
> return [("Demo editor", "__demo_provider_minimal_slider")]
> def ns_provide(self, id_):
> if id_ == "__demo_provider_minimal_slider":
> reload(editpane)
> g.es("reloaded")
> w = editpane.LeoEditPane(c=c, mode='split')
> return w
> return None
> def ns_provider_id(self):
> return "__demo_provider_minimal"
>
> c.free_layout.get_top_splitter().register_provider(MinimalDemoProvider())
>
> Then you can either use the free_layout menus to open a LEP, or more
> easily run this code from a button:
>
> s = c.free_layout.get_top_splitter()
> s.open_window("__demo_provider_minimal_slider")
>
> This opens the LEP in a separate window, it works the same as a pane in
> the main window.
>
> You should get at least Plain Text Edit, Plain Text Edit B, Plain Text
> View, and Plain Text View B.  These are what they sound like, with the B
> versions having a different background color to show they're alternate
> widgets.  Depending on what you have installed, you may also get a
> WebKit based HTML viewer, a WebEngine based HTML viewer, and a Markdown
> viewer descending from one of the HTML viewers.  Possibly also a
> markdown-html viewer which shows you the HTML for markdown, can't remember.
>
>
>
> > Thanks,
> > Kent
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:26 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
> > leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:07:25 -0500
> > > "Edward K. Ream" <edream...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Edward K. Ream
> > > > <edream...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:30 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
> > > > > leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> The code is in the branch
> > > > >> https://github.com/tbnorth/leo-dev-tbnorth/tree/leo_edit_pane
> > > > >
> > > > > ​Thanks.  I'll make no changes.
> > > >
> > > > ​I don't see the leo/core/editPane directory when I do a git
> > > > clone.
> > >
> > > Speed wise you could fetch the repo. into you current repo, but I'm
> > > guessing you want to clone into a completely separate repo.
> > >
> > > Just tried that, don't understand why, but git branch didn't show
> > > the leo_edit_pane branch, but git checkout leo_edit_pane seemed to
> > > work anyway.
> > >
> > > Cheers -Terry
> > >
> > > --
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Re: Unified views? Unify the outline and body panes?

[Kent Tenney]

I'm looking at a copy of leo_edit_pane branch: what is required
to see the new code in action?

Thanks,
Kent

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:26 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:07:25 -0500
> "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Edward K. Ream 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:30 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
> > > leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> The code is in the branch
> > >> https://github.com/tbnorth/leo-dev-tbnorth/tree/leo_edit_pane
> > >
> > >
> > > ​Thanks.  I'll make no changes.
> > >
> >
> > ​I don't see the leo/core/editPane directory when I do a git clone.
>
> Speed wise you could fetch the repo. into you current repo, but I'm
> guessing you want to clone into a completely separate repo.
>
> Just tried that, don't understand why, but git branch didn't show the
> leo_edit_pane branch, but git checkout leo_edit_pane seemed to work
> anyway.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: Unified views? Unify the outline and body panes?

[Kent Tenney]

Sounds like  add-editor done right ... ?
If extra editors persisted between sessions, I'd make heavy
use of them: function in one, corresponding test in another ...
Which you've probably already implemented ...



On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:05 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 06:35:12 -0700 (PDT)
> "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:
>
> > Up until now, I have never regretted using separate outline and body
> > panes. For coding especially, there are advantages: all body text is
> > unindented, regardless of its position in the outline.
> >
> > However, "embedding" outline text does have advantages, as both the
> > Quiver overview
> >  5---preview-and-presentation>
> > and the Englebart video  show. In
> > particular, outline heads can be "rendered" in place, according to
> > outline level, context and user preferences.
> >
> > Unifying the outline and body panes would require changes throughout
> > Leo. It seems too big a project, but I am playing with the idea.  The
> > Englebart video is tantalizing.
>
> If such a thing were to be done, I think it should be done without
> making any changes to Leo ;-)
>
> I think Leo will become much more powerful / flexible when it has
> multiple node editor components that are free to act on different parts
> of the tree.
>
> In fact I posted a screenshot of a column of Leo Edit Pane (LEP) widgets
> which effectively interleave headings and bodies just a couple of weeks
> ago.
>
> Of course "no changes to Leo" is disingenuous, Leo will probably
> require changes to most efficiently support such components, although
> LEP hasn't required any yet.
>
> But if a unified outline editor should arise, I think it should not
> replace the exiting tree and body editor, but be an example of one of
> these new node editor components that are free to act on different parts
> of the tree.  The current tree and body panes need not be visible, but
> they shouldn't be replaced.  It should be possible to have the current
> tree and body panes and the new unified editor visible at the same time.
>
> I'm repeating myself but I think it's key that there not be one
> component (currently the combination of the tree and body panes) that
> can edit a Leo outline, we need more decoupling of editing from the core
> Leo outline / data structure.
>
> LEP is an example.  I've found it relatively easy to have a QTextEditor
> widget editing this node, and a QScintilla widget editing that node,
> with the LEP layer handling node selection. Where I've stalled is
> getting a LeoQTextEditor widget into the mix.
>
> Perhaps the big shift in thinking is c.p.  That would become "the node
> selected in the tree".  Which it is currently, the difference being for
> a given node editor component, that component might not be editing c.p.
> So there will be issues to resolve for executing scripts, etc. etc.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
> > Kent has long requested unified *file *views.  The VR2 plugin
> > provides one way to get that for a given tree, but it could be
> > improved.
> >
> > Jupyter provides such integrated views without outlines. Links and
> > TOCs must be entered by hand, but the visual effect is good.
> >
> > All such options could be called preferences, so it's no good arguing
> > about them.  Leo needs to do better in this regard.  #443: Adopt
> > Quiver Look and Feel
> >  contains links
> > to many other related issues, so #443 is probably a good enough
> > placeholder.
> >
> > Your comments, please.
> >
> > Edward
> >
>
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Re: Unified views? Unify the outline and body panes?

[Kent Tenney]

Most of the recent threads zoom over my head, but here is an entry point
for opinion.

Leo is great at managing complexity, some would consider it's strength a
weakness.
Per a piece I read, the author didn't use an IDE because it made it too
easy to write complex code. A rule of thumb says it's x number of times
harder
to debug than to write (10 times?) so, if you are writing code too near
your limit
of comprehension, you won't be able to debug it. A simple editor demands
that
files and elements within a file be relatively small and simple: easier to
understand
and debug.

I don't altogether buy this, not all complexity is optional, and  Leo
provide
shoulders to stand on to better understand the landscape, therefore is
indispensable.
I do however think Leo tends to be complicit in creating 'proprietary'
source code files,
which are too big and complex to be handled effectively outside of Leo.
DANGER!

As convenient as I find the parsed view of a .py file Leo offers, a unified
view
provides a view of the forest not possible by examining trees: hence no
sentinels,
 vim-edit-file.

As I recall we talked about toggling between  and  ...
珞

Thanks,
Kent

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 9:19 AM, lewis  wrote:

> I imagine that this feature you describe would be most intuitive as a
> toggle. As you toggle between [outline​] [body/content] and unified mode,
> the outline interleaves with the body pane. Depending on your code task or
> presentation requirement you simply toggle to suit.
> I have been giving some thought to issues such as this recently but have
> been waiting for 5.5 to roll out. This type of  discussion is more
> enjoyable than ever.
>
> Regards
> Lewis
>
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Re: Kent, Terry, and others: Ashland get together in April?

[Kent Tenney]

I think Sun the 23rd would work for me.

Thanks,
Kent

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 4:35 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:19:38 -0700 (PDT)
> "Edward K. Ream"  wrote:
>
> > Rebecca leaves April 3 for three weeks in Peru.  I am wondering
> > whether one of the week ends in April would be good to get together
> > and chat about Leo.  Probably not a real sprint.  More like gabbing,
> > walking and eating :-)  Saturdays would be fine, say either 8, 15 or
> > 22 April, but most any time in April would work for me.
>
> Sat. 8 or Sun. 23 are possibles for me.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
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Re: Well Kent, your vision for Leo is becoming clearer

[Kent Tenney]

And yes, proper abstraction, but newt.db has me convinced
to go all in with it.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 1:26 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Hi - I wouldn't discount SQLite either, DB wise, unless you need connect
> to a *remote* server capability, but for local work it's quite capable.
> And a proper abstraction layer should make it possible to switch out the
> backend.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
>
> ------
> *From:* Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com>
> *To:* leo-editor <leo-editor@googlegroups.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2017 10:41 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Well Kent, your vision for Leo is becoming clearer
>
> I'm not sure if my periodic outbursts qualify as 'vision' but in terms
> of where my characterization of Leo might differ from the norm, it
> would be my seeing Leo as a hierarchal data store rather than an
> editor, the D3 reference would imply generating data
> relationships viewed in the browser, I'd love to see that.
>
> I am slowly coding away at another implementation of my obsession
> with the notion of 'spatial versioning', meaning multiple versions which
> exist next to, above or below, etc. rather than temporal versioning:
> only before or after.
>
> It always seems to come down to storing data, so I've been studying
> Postgresql more, if the issue is data, a database makes sense. The
> next thing to fret is how much Python vs. how much Postgres, and
> what about json?
>
> Enter the code master, Jim Fulton, announcing newt.db
> http://www.newtdb.org
> which joins ZODB (persisting Python), Postgresql, and json.
>
> I once had node level spatial versioning working for Leo, I hope to return
> to it,
> in a form I can stick with.
>
> Thanks,
> Kent
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:34 AM, Edward K. Ream <edream...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I never really understood it until I saw the Atom editor
> <https://atom.io/> and d3 demo
> <https://bl.ocks.org/kaleguy/57266b6fff9f864403e007e9efd06401>.
>
> Cool stuff enabled by standard web technologies.
>
> Edward
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Re: Well Kent, your vision for Leo is becoming clearer

[Kent Tenney]

And the previous version which was up and running briefly was SQLite,
confirmed proof of concept, but I am interested in a db server available
from anywhere, I work from several different machines during the day.

The principle I've described for Leo nodes will apply to versioning files,
commands ... etc. The combination of features in newt.db addresses
my interests wonderfully, so that part of the decision has been made for me.

Thanks,
Kent

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 1:26 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Hi - I wouldn't discount SQLite either, DB wise, unless you need connect
> to a *remote* server capability, but for local work it's quite capable.
> And a proper abstraction layer should make it possible to switch out the
> backend.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
>
> ------
> *From:* Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com>
> *To:* leo-editor <leo-editor@googlegroups.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2017 10:41 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Well Kent, your vision for Leo is becoming clearer
>
> I'm not sure if my periodic outbursts qualify as 'vision' but in terms
> of where my characterization of Leo might differ from the norm, it
> would be my seeing Leo as a hierarchal data store rather than an
> editor, the D3 reference would imply generating data
> relationships viewed in the browser, I'd love to see that.
>
> I am slowly coding away at another implementation of my obsession
> with the notion of 'spatial versioning', meaning multiple versions which
> exist next to, above or below, etc. rather than temporal versioning:
> only before or after.
>
> It always seems to come down to storing data, so I've been studying
> Postgresql more, if the issue is data, a database makes sense. The
> next thing to fret is how much Python vs. how much Postgres, and
> what about json?
>
> Enter the code master, Jim Fulton, announcing newt.db
> http://www.newtdb.org
> which joins ZODB (persisting Python), Postgresql, and json.
>
> I once had node level spatial versioning working for Leo, I hope to return
> to it,
> in a form I can stick with.
>
> Thanks,
> Kent
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:34 AM, Edward K. Ream <edream...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I never really understood it until I saw the Atom editor
> <https://atom.io/> and d3 demo
> <https://bl.ocks.org/kaleguy/57266b6fff9f864403e007e9efd06401>.
>
> Cool stuff enabled by standard web technologies.
>
> Edward
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Re: Well Kent, your vision for Leo is becoming clearer

[Kent Tenney]

I'm not sure if my periodic outbursts qualify as 'vision' but in terms
of where my characterization of Leo might differ from the norm, it
would be my seeing Leo as a hierarchal data store rather than an
editor, the D3 reference would imply generating data
relationships viewed in the browser, I'd love to see that.

I am slowly coding away at another implementation of my obsession
with the notion of 'spatial versioning', meaning multiple versions which
exist next to, above or below, etc. rather than temporal versioning:
only before or after.

It always seems to come down to storing data, so I've been studying
Postgresql more, if the issue is data, a database makes sense. The
next thing to fret is how much Python vs. how much Postgres, and
what about json?

Enter the code master, Jim Fulton, announcing newt.db http://www.newtdb.org
which joins ZODB (persisting Python), Postgresql, and json.

I once had node level spatial versioning working for Leo, I hope to return
to it,
in a form I can stick with.

Thanks,
Kent

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:34 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> I never really understood it until I saw the Atom editor
>  and d3 demo
> .
>
> Cool stuff enabled by standard web technologies.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Leo 5.5 will challenge org mode

[Kent Tenney]

S**t is getting serious

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 2:40 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
> leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Just for amusement, here's Leo with three body editors, vertically, using
>> the new edit pane I'm working on.
>>
>
> ​Excellent demo. This is going to be a breakthrough year for Leo.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Is there a way to avoid conflicts with commit_timestamp.json?

[Kent Tenney]

[insert long pause for fresh clone of leo-editor]

A trick I use all the time is
git clone --depth=1 https://github.com/blah/blah.git

If I'm not interested in history, but just want current trunk (master)
onward ...

saves lots of time and space.

Thanks,
Kent

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 12:29 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> The best way, although I think it requires action per clone of the repo.,
> is to add
>
> commit_timestamp.json merge=ours
>
> in the .gitattributes file in the to level folder of the repo. (where .git
> lives, but not in .git).
>
> This just makes git use "ours" whenever there's a conflict.  It doesn't
> really matter which one it chooses.
>
> [insert long pause for fresh clone of leo-editor]
>
> So it doesn't require per clone action, because .gitattributes is part of
> the repo.  So if it's not currently working (i.e.
> commit_timestamp.json merge=ours is in your .gitattributes file but you're
> still getting conflicts, maybe the path's wrong, i.e. it should be
> leo/core/commit_timestamp.json merge=ours
> perhaps.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
> --
> *From:* Edward K. Ream 
> *To:* leo-editor 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2017 7:25 AM
> *Subject:* Is there a way to avoid conflicts with commit_timestamp.json?
>
> We've discussed this at length in other threads.  I seem to recall that
> Terry said that there was a clever fix for this.  Something better than
> `git checkout --ours leo/core/commit_timestamp.json`. But maybe I'm
> mis-remembering.
>
> Now that I'm using branches, I suspect the way to merge the master *into *a
> branch is to use --theirs, not --ours:
>
> git checkout my_branch
> git merge
> git checkout --theirs leo/core/commit_timestamp.json
> git commit -m "resolved conflicts in .json file"
> git checkout master
> git merge my_branch # nothing should happen, by definition.
>
> I've just merged both the color and and demo branches into master with
> this work flow. Only the merge from master into the demo branch caused a
> conflict in the .json file.
>
> Does all this make sense to everyone?
>
> Edward
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Python parsing issue

[Kent Tenney]

commit 1c28e916c37153df427e93c8cb97b635f58f5cbd
declaration appended to class definition, this looks like a bug.

a minimal version of what I'm seeing, file test.py:
###
import sys

class Foo():
pass

def __init__(self):
pass

if __name__ == '__main__':

'''
>>> print('ok?'')

'''

print('__main__')


###

When the above is added to a Leo file via @auto test.py,
the parsed version shows in the 'Declarations' node:
import sys

and shows in the 'Class foo' node:

class Foo():

 pass

 @others

if __name__ == '__main__':


 '''

 >>> print('ok?')

 '''


 print('__main__')


Thanks,

Kent

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Re: Leo and fossil

[Kent Tenney]

from a couple years ago, I'm as convinced as ever this is what
I want for a dev environment, instant access to versions of node
content which are 'next' to each other, not before and after.

##
OK, I've written a simple implementation of 'spatial versioning'

A database maintains a table 'choices' with 3 columns:
- id (node gnx)
- index (currently selected choice)
- data (a json dict with numeric keys, the value a dict {'h':p.h, 'b':p.b})

The gui element turns out to be not required, in fact, I expect
it would be horrible to have tabs for each choice.

I have 2 buttons: 'right' and 'left'

clicking 'right' increments the index and pulls headline and body from the
db,
making a copy of the current node h if it's a new index

clicking 'left' decrements the index ...

The Leo file knows nothing about any of this.

A plugin sets up db access and provides one function:
update_choice(p, offset):

p is the current position, offset is 1 or -1

There is lots of room for enhancement, but it already looks to
offer what I've been wanting: access to ad-hoc 'what if' scenarios
instead of the more formal 'and then' world view of VCS.

Thanks,
Kent
##


On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
off...@riseup.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> On 17/01/17 11:00, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor wrote:
>
>>
>> I think there's a two birds with one stone opportunity here if the
>> development proceeds with a generic interface to multiple backends, of
>> which Fossil could be one.  I'm thinking not so much of git but a
>> server based DB like Mongo or Postgres or MySQL ... suddenly
>> collaborative Leo outline editing is a big step closer.
>>
>> Cheers -Terry
>>
>
> You have a distributed server based DB for collaborative editing already
> with fossil, with and integrated pwoerful query and programming language
> and almost no requirements for installation. That's why my explorations
> started there. There is, still, road ahead, and my own explorations could
> not suit Leo's approach, but the crosspollination of ideas surely will be a
> big win.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
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Re: Traveling to Florida

[Kent Tenney]

Safe travels! (weather forecast validates the wisdom of your timing)

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Zoom.Quiet  wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 5:37 PM, Edward K. Ream 
> wrote:
> > Rebecca and I will be on the road to Florida starting tomorrow morning.
> > I'll have my laptop with me, and will be able to respond to emails.
> >
>
> happy holiday ;-)
>
> > Edward
> >
> > --
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>
>
> --
> life is pathetic, go Pythonic! 人生苦短, Python当歌!
> 俺: http://zoomquiet.io
> 授: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/cn/
> 怒: 冗余不做,日子甭过!备份不做,十恶不赦!
> KM keep growing environment culture which promoting organization be
> learnning!
>
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Re: @button make-md-heads

[Kent Tenney]

This sounds wonderful, like so many other things which fly
by in this list, making me wish for a way for me to access it
6 months from now, when I have a need for it.

Buttons and commands strike me as parallel to Python's
libraries. Could they be handled in a similiar way, the
moral equivalent of

@button make-md-heads
 from leodoc.leo import make-md-heads

I think that kind of pattern might be way to improve access
to hundreds (thousands?) of snippets on this list I've been
delighted by, only to lose track of.
###

A few days pass, now a breakthrough on the testing front ...

Leo needs a structure to standardize packaging, locating
and exposing this kind of thing!!

Thanks,
Kent


On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 5:57 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 12:08 PM, Edward K. Ream 
> wrote:
>
>> I have started the process of converting the lengthy documentation for
>> ​​
>> #334  to a .md file
>> on GitHub.
>>
>
>
>> The new @button make-md-headers script does this automatically.
>>
>
> ​This has gone through several revisions.  It now changes *all* @
> x.md trees.  Besides updating headings, it ensures that all nodes end
> with a blank line so as not to interfere with following headers.
>
> I have put this script through its paces while creating this page
> .
> At present it is just a dump of the posts for
> ​
> #334 . It must be
> completely rewritten, but the workflow has been vindicated.
>
> EKR
>
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Re: Thanks for Edward K. Ream's hard work

[Kent Tenney]

Talk about a win-win!

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 6:25:10 PM UTC-6, zhaohe wang wrote:
>
> I run "git pull" when opening shell every day!  This is a habit now.
>>
>
> Ha.  Glad to hear it :-)
>
>
>> Thanks for Edward K. Ream's free hard work!
>> Many people use leo-editor, so you develop a good IDE for us.
>> Thanks again!
>>
>
> You're welcome.  It is a great privilege for me to do what I truly love in
> life.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Proposal: remove all of Leo's buffer commands

[Kent Tenney]

As a greybeard, I agree.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 6:14 AM, Propadovic Nenad 
wrote:

> As a newbie, I agree.
>
> 2016-10-20 12:02 GMT+02:00 Edward K. Ream :
>
>> The following commands work on Leo nodes. Does anyone ever use them?
>>
>> buffer-append-to
>> buffer-copy
>> buffer-insert
>> buffer-kill
>> buffer-prepend-to
>> buffer-switch-to
>>
>> They are based on Emacs buffer commands, but in fact they have to prompt
>> the user for the name of a node! LeoUser suggested them ages ago, but that
>> was before Leo had a minibuffer, or iterators or properties such as p.b.
>>
>> Imo, these commands are feeble and should be removed. That would reduce
>> the cognitive load on newbies just a tad.
>>
>> Your comments, please.
>>
>> Edward
>>
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Re: My 15 year plan, part 2

[Kent Tenney]

Sorry, neovim is a C rewrite, pyvim is the Python vim
https://github.com/jonathanslenders/pyvim

First impressions count, but I'm no packaging expert either ...


On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 4:33 AM, Edward K. Ream <edream...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Kent Tenney <kten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Neovim is a Vim rewrite in Python
>> ​.
>>
>
> ​I see only C files at the neovim github repo
> <https://github.com/neovim/neovim/tree/master/src>.  Why do you think
> neovim has python sources?
>
> ​
> ​> ​
> However, foolproof install seems to be job one.
>
> ​We will have to disagree about this one.  Leo has a quick install for
> Windows.  On other platforms, it is (or should be) easy enough to install
> Python, Qt and then Leo.
>
> If you think you can do better, I encourage you to try.  I am not going to
> let installation issues suck all the enthusiasm out of my life.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: My 15 year plan, part 2

[Kent Tenney]

I don't see Leo-in-thing, I see Thing-in-Leo.
Leo's panes, buttons, scriptiing external file tools, plugins etc.
provides the fundamentals which make it uniquely positioned
as a cognitive aid.

Neovim is a Vim rewrite in Python, if it could be native to a Leo
editor pane, the Vim/Leo choice would disappear. If one of the
open source debuggers could be embedded in a Leo edit pane,
allowing step-through of code with a variable watch window ...

However, foolproof install seems to be job one.

Thanks,
Kent

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Edward K. Ream 
wrote:

> This is a continuation of two threads: Pare Leo down and make it a plugin
> , and My
> 15 year plan
> . More so
> than usual, I am thinking out loud here. All comments welcome.
>
> It is tempting to think that one could, starting with Leo's existing code
> base, integrate Leo into Emacs, vim, Eclipse and (my favorite)
> IPython/Jupyter. Indeed, if I could start over on Leo (back in 1985, say),
> I would seriously consider adding yet another mode to Emacs.  Similarly,
> given the work I did with vim emulation, it might have been better to
> attempt to embed Leo into vim, rather than the reverse.
>
> But this is not 1985, and I am 30 years older now.  I don't have 30 more
> years ahead of me. I have no desire to create work just to keep busy. I
> certainly can not commit to multiple projects such as Leo-in-Emacs,
> Leo-in-Vim or Leo-in-Jupyter (Leo-in-CoffeeScript). Any one of these
> projects might take years.
>
> I personally can disqualify Leo-Emacs or Leo-in-Vim immediately.  Although
> such a project might make Leo more popular, I would never use such things
> myself.  I like Leo as it is, with Qt's great widget set.
>
> Leo-in-Jupyter (written in CoffeeScript) has more personal interest, but
> it has its own, er, "challenges".  The foremost is that Jupyter is a huge
> project run by others.  Even if Leo could be integrated into Jupyter, it
> seems unlikely that the "governors" would approve.
>
> Lastly, I could conceive of doing a "straight" version of Leo in
> CoffeeScript.  But this runs smack into serious problems:
>
> 1. Security.  Jupyter claims to be secure, and they may be, but the
> machinery involved is complex.  I have no confidence that Leo could be made
> secure.
>
> 2. Widgets. There are many widget sets and other frameworks to choose
> from.  My brother, who knows much more about such things, has no clear
> recommendation to make.
>
> In short, Leo in CoffeeScript would be a huge, high-risk project.
>
> Instead, I would rather explore solving problems with Leo as it is. I have
> said many times that we have just begun to explore what is possible with
> Leo. That hasn't changed, and I expect that extending Leo as it is will
> continue to be my focus.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Pare Leo down and make it a plugin

[Kent Tenney]

+1 Embedding neovim would be brilliant.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:35 PM, 'tfer' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I looked into this further and, at this time, Edward is right, you can't
> easily mix Python with the JavaScript-based Visual Code.  Paring things
> down and translating into JavaScript is way too ambitious.  There are a few
> projects that are taking aim at allowing browser based technology to be
> coupled to Python, (and other languages), but such stuff is down the line.
>
> As others have mentioned elsewhere, I think the thing to do is give Leo
> the ability to use neovim as an editor alternative.  I'll talk more about
> that in another post.
>
> On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 8:27:53 PM UTC-4, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 8:18 PM, 'tfer' via leo-editor <
>> leo-e...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> There have been some discussions in the past on what we might do to make
>>> Leo more popular.  I've recently had some time out in the woods and was hit
>>> with a tack that just might do that.
>>> ​
>>>
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> So here is what I'm proposing, make Leo into a plug-in for Visual Code.
>>> We'd need to pare down Leo, dropping the Qt code and using html and
>>> JavaScript to build a Outline pan
>>> ​e.
>>>
>>
>> ​This is a big question, and one that has been discussed partially
>> before.  We could probably list dozens of sub-items that might be of
>> interest.
>>
>> I have only a few minutes now, but I'd like to say what I think is the
>> most important message, namely that doing such a thing is
>>
>> 1. A very big project and
>>
>> 2. A project that has the potential to do more harm than good.
>>
>> 3. There may be better alternatives, or not.
>>
>> Point 1 should be obvious to any programmer.  Just picking a reasonable
>> widget set could easily become a full-time job.
>>
>> Point 2 is debatable.  I'm not asserting that it is true, but I would be
>> surprised if it weren't true.
>>
>> Again, this is a huge question.  I would suggest that people think
>> carefully of the consequences.
>>
>> Edward
>>
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