Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
Take a look at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~bssnrw/getchart.html for a
differing viewpoint.
Nice BLINK tags.
bss? Biological Sciences Staff? Hmmm.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name = 'Mark Fowler',Title = 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm = 'Profero Ltd',Web = 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email = '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone = '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Network Programming with Perl
I picked up a copy of Lincoln Stein's new book "Network Programming with Perl" last night. I've only had time to flick thru a few chapters but it looks very interesting. I'll bring it along tonight if anyone wants to hav a look. Dave...
apologies
Apologies one and all, i am not going to be able to make it tonight, today is my first day back at work after some flu like illness. i had hoped to make it tonight but currently feel like matt wrights code, see you all at the next meeting, Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: apologies
At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:54:40 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apologies one and all, i am not going to be able to make it tonight, today is my first day back at work after some flu like illness. i had hoped to make it tonight but currently feel like matt wrights code, OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? Dave...
Re: Zebware
From: "Paul Makepeace" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone read/heard about http://www.zebware.com/ ? I just read an article on them in Open (Jan 2001) issue. I haven't tried this with Netscape but with IE every element on their pages is drag and drop-able in an impressive/disconcerting way. They employ some serious clustering tech as well. I really dislike the way some of their buttons respond to the downclick, and not the upclick. And I'm trying to work out why you'd want to drag and drop paragraphs of text around? /Robert
TPJ
According to a mail I got on the SPUG mailimng list last night, TPJ #20 _has_ been printed and is in the post now. Which is good news. Dave...
Re: Online Time
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 01:11:20AM +, Robin Szemeti wrote: from this quarters BT bill I managed to accumulate 786 hours of internet time .. anyone top that? I dunno how much it cost per minute, but I averaged five hundred quid per quarter on the ISDN bill - and I had some free time as well. Hey, perhaps my ISDN bills are one of the reasons Oven went tits up! -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: Network Programming with Perl
I picked up a copy of Lincoln Stein's new book "Network Programming with Perl" last night. I've only had time to flick thru a few chapters but it looks very interesting. I'll bring it along tonight if anyone wants to hav a look. Yes please, I'm just starting a project whereby I have to listen to broadcast udp packets. I'd rather listen to my mp3's.
Re: Red Hat worm discovered
"Paul Makepeace" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: "Robin Houston" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aww c'mon! RedHat was obviously targeted because it's the most widely used! None of the vulnerable software was written by RH (and all of it was also included in other distros). That's true -- but how easy is RH to upgrade/patch? And why is RH7 shipping with all these services turned on? (NFS? rpc.*? Hello?) Perhaps *that's* why it's a steaming pile of crap getting hacked the whole time. RH is incredibly easy to upgrade with RPM one liners. There is a single web page of current security issues if people bothered to read it they wouldn't get hacked. RH7 ships with so many services turned on because Redhat marketing think offering more services by default is popular with customers. Longer feature list equal better in this world. Don't blame the distribution (they are all equivalent anyway) blame the lack of decent sysadmins. RH/Slackware/Debian/Solaris/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD are all fine systems but they need to be setup by someone who knows what they are doing in the same way that Perl has to be written by clueful programmers. -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] hey, if you can't remember when you booted it, it ain't windoze.
Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On or about Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:37:27AM +, Steve Mynott typed: RH/Slackware/Debian/Solaris/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD are all fine systems but they need to be setup by someone who knows what they are doing in the same way that Perl has to be written by clueful programmers. And competent *ix system builders/admins are about as easy to find as clueful programmers. And certifications are about as useful in finding them. R
Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 09:56:07AM +0100, Philip Newton wrote: Robin Szemeti wrote: as a matter of interest what is your fave Linux or *nix install then?? From what I've been reading on this list, Debian seems to be argued for quite a lot, as is FreeBSD (? I think -- one of the BSDs, anyway). I like Debian for general use, and OpenBSD for servers where there's a particular security concern... Michael
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 08:40:56PM +, Roger Burton West wrote: If you present the chart in a different format to how they did then there's nothing they can do... Take a look at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~bssnrw/getchart.html for a differing viewpoint. OK ... when I said "there's nothing they can do", I of course meant there's nothing they can do if you're prepared to actually fight them in court, not "they can't send you threatening legal letters that actually carry no legal weight". There's nothing at that page to suggest that CIN were doing anything other than throwing their weight around just to scare someone off. Which is what companies do all the time. I paid thousands of pounds for legal advice on this very issue (albeit about 5 years ago), and the opinion I got was "factual information cannot be copyrighted - only the arrangement of it". The classic case is someone who retypes a phone book. You can't reissue it in the same order (i.e. alphabetic by surname) as the original, but you could quite happily order it numberic by phone number and no-one could do anything... Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk make me laugh make me cry enrage me don't try to disengage me -
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
Tony Bowden wrote: The classic case is someone who retypes a phone book. You can't reissue it in the same order (i.e. alphabetic by surname) as the original, but you could quite happily order it numberic by phone number and no-one could do anything... They could in Germany :-). There's been quite a bit of hoo-ha about this in recent years. It started out with a company providing a telephone CD (apparently they had people in China type up printed telephone directories, which was cheaper than buying the data from German Telecom) which also enabled you to search by number. Then that was forbidden, and third-party companies started selling add-ons that worked with vendor XYZ's telephone CD to add the reverse search back in; those are forbidden, too, but these third parties are harder to get at. I believe the reasoning given is data protection -- people consented to have their name and number in a book but only for the usual use: looking up a number by name. And that people are not allowed to provide reverse search unless they have the consent of all the people involved. Cheers, Philip
[Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Roger Burton West [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On or about Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:37:27AM +, Steve Mynott typed: RH/Slackware/Debian/Solaris/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD are all fine systems but they need to be setup by someone who knows what they are doing in the same way that Perl has to be written by clueful programmers. And competent *ix system builders/admins are about as easy to find as clueful programmers. And certifications are about as useful in finding them. Talking of which, having interviewed/seen/lunched a fair number of perlmongers recently and then offered a bunch of Java weenies, I still need a BOFH. Not just someone who can "do", but who has vision to drive things forward. Like me, only more anally retentive and will do the second 90% of any job :-) Anyone know one? The money's only OK, but the toys are great :-) And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
At 18 Jan 2001 10:09:04 +, Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. Sounds good to me. Anyone else up for it? Dave...
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 06:09:32AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: At 18 Jan 2001 10:09:04 +, Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. Sounds good to me. Anyone else up for it? Yes, but [caveat] [caveat] [caveat] -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, but [caveat] [caveat] [caveat] you're (we're ;-) (almost) all alcoholics with personality disorders? Why keep giving the money to the pimps^H^H^H^H^H agencies? -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:31:02AM +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, but [caveat] [caveat] [caveat] you're (we're ;-) (almost) all alcoholics with personality disorders? Actually I was thinking more along the lines of me being too damned lazy to whore myself around, to do the accounty boring stuff, and even to send invoices out on time. All that's fine when I'm just donig a bit of consluting on the side, of course. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At 18 Jan 2001 10:09:04 +, Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. Sounds good to me. Anyone else up for it? I would join but I appear to be jinxed at the moment. so it would be unfair on the rest ;) A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: apologies
At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:54:40 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apologies one and all, i am not going to be able to make it tonight, today is my first day back at work after some flu like illness. i had hoped to make it tonight but currently feel like matt wrights code, OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? Dave... Well I have both The Matrix and MIB with me on DVD and a DVD capable powerbook.. Movie intermission anyone? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 11:22:45AM +, Robin Houston wrote: MICROSOFT.COM.IS.SECRETLY.RUN.BY.ILLUMINATI.TERRORISTS.NET but MICROSOFT.COM.INSPIRES.COPYCAT.WANNABE.SUBVERSIVES.NET is quite a good explanation of what's happened :-) Yeah, this was NTKed some time ago. The names may have changed but the principle is the same. APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET Anyone spotted any others? Mike.
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Roger Burton West [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On or about Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:37:27AM +, Steve Mynott typed: RH/Slackware/Debian/Solaris/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD are all fine systems but they need to be setup by someone who knows what they are doing in the same way that Perl has to be written by clueful programmers. And competent *ix system builders/admins are about as easy to find as clueful programmers. And certifications are about as useful in finding them. Talking of which, having interviewed/seen/lunched a fair number of perlmongers recently and then offered a bunch of Java weenies, I still need a BOFH. Not just someone who can "do", but who has vision to drive things forward. Like me, only more anally retentive and will do the second 90% of any job :-) Anyone know one? Well kinda :-) The money's only OK, but the toys are great :-) I need to see thing how things pan out here and on a couple of other fronts first. Toys are always a good incentive. And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. Quite happy to consider that, doing the sysadminy / strategy / project management type stuff can't code perl for toffee I'm afraid. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET Server Name: WHITEHOUSE.GOV.HAS.THE.BEST.TERRORISTS.NET -- Duncan Bates Developer Proxicom UK Tel: 020 7321 3812 Mobile: 07884 336 532 http://www.proxicom.com/
whiteboard pens
for people who are coming to the tech meeting tonight -- do you have any whiteboard pens you could bring along? to avoid unnecessary confusion, list traffic and whiteboard pens, if whiteboard pen owners could mail me directly offering to bring some, I'll reply to the first person saying "yes please bring your whiteboard pens along by all means." cheers, alex -- Snack pastries are dramatic when shapes are combined
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 06:09:32AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: At 18 Jan 2001 10:09:04 +, Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. Sounds good to me. Anyone else up for it? Yes, but [caveat] [caveat] [caveat] Hmmm, does sound good though. John -- :wq
Re: apologies
Neil Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well I have both The Matrix and MIB with me on DVD and a DVD capable powerbook.. Movie intermission anyone? I have Deep Purple at the Montreux jazz festival 2000... ;-) -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET Server Name: WHITEHOUSE.GOV.HAS.THE.BEST.TERRORISTS.NET TERRORISTS.NET.IS.SO.FUCKING.31338.NET
RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET WHITEHOUSE.GOV.HAS.THE.BEST.TERRORISTS.NET AMAZON.COM.SHOULD.SELL.SEXTOYSONLINE.COM SLASHDOT.ORG.SUCKS.COMPARED.TO.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG -- Duncan Bates Developer Proxicom UK Tel: 020 7321 3812 Mobile: 07884 336 532 http://www.proxicom.com/
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* John ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Hmmm, does sound good though. it all depends what you mean, do you mean a proper consultancy or a bunch of people getting together to share accounting/marketting? if its a proper consultancy, you'd have to wear suits, be polite and be in work for 9 in the morning if you were a contractor joining it you could expect a 50%+ pay cut instead of recruiters taking a skim, the running of the company including advertising, management etc. would all eat some of the cash also you'd need to focus it by problem areas not by language having said all of this, if its a later its a good idea -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: apologies
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 11:41:29AM +, Neil Ford wrote: Well I have both The Matrix and MIB with me on DVD and a DVD capable powerbook.. Movie intermission anyone? Cool, 20 minutes is plenty enough to watch all the good bits in The Matrix. God bless chapter-seek. -- Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
SLASHDOT.ORG.SUCKS.COMPARED.TO.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG jimphillips has one on Microsoft too. MICROSOFT.COM.IS.NO.MATCH.FOR.THE.UEBER-GEEKS.AT.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG Hmmm /Robert
Re: apologies
i am not going to be able to make it tonight, today is my first day back at work after some flu like illness. i had hoped to make it tonight but currently feel like matt wrights code, ditto, except today is the first day of similar flu-like illness :( sorry i wont be there to do the gracious hostessing thing and my five minutes of fame will have to wait :/ have a good one, jo
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
"Robert Shiels" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Original Message - From: "David Cantrell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 January 2001 11:25 Subject: Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:31:02AM +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually I was thinking more along the lines of me being too damned lazy to whore myself around, to do the accounty boring stuff, and even to send invoices out on time. All that's fine when I'm just donig a bit of consluting on the side, of course. Yes, but that's where the economies of scale come in. Half a dozen consultants ought to be able to afford the services of an accounts clerk, and maybe their own business manager who can do the pimp^h^h^h^hsearching around for work for you. Gunther had a lot of experience with this at extropia and I have some mail somorewhere I'm sure he'd be happy to share (but obviously I'll ask him). However, they were developing an application rather than bodyshopping^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H consulting. If you/we got the likes of Andy *hint* on board then I'd go in at the high end with "getting it right" type of stuff. There are also enough products out there that have perl behind them that there's plenty of scope for installation/customising. What sort of hourly/daily rate does an average PM perl programmer get anyway? Anything from 30 upwards to the sky depending on the client. And the programmer. And the task. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
?party animals
As I've never met you all in person (hopefully to be rectified on February 1st, can't come tonight as we're boarding the loft..don't ask) I don't know how big a party animal you all are, however some of you may be interested that Linkdup/Uploaded are having a party on February 1st at the Strongrooms Bar EC1 that goes on till 2am; details from their website at http://weare.preloaded.com . * Jon Galliers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmer Perl/C++/MySQL/DB2/Java Design Net http://www.design.net.uk Tel: +44(0)870 240 0088 Fax: +44(0)870 240 0099 *
RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
Tony Bowden wrote: The fact you are recording is "What Billboard said was number one". *That* is a fact. Why they decided it was number one isn't the issue. How about if I put up a website wherein I disclose the fact: "This is what the object code to commercial app looks like?" Under (U.S.) IP law, it's pretty much the same thing. ymmv. ianal. -- mike
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 08:03:52AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote: The fact you are recording is "What Billboard said was number one". *That* is a fact. Why they decided it was number one isn't the issue. How about if I put up a website wherein I disclose the fact: "This is what the object code to commercial app looks like?" If people can't see a difference here, then let's just leave it to the lawyers. We'll just go round and round for ages... Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk i don't want the world i just want your half -
Re: apologies
Dave Cross wrote: OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? I could give a talk on either Flash stuff (again, although there's not much else to say ATM that people don't already know) or something on IP - Longtitude and Latitude.
RE: apologies
From: Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 January 2001 11:05 I have Deep Purple at the Montreux jazz festival 2000... ;-) That all sounds a bit Spinal Tap. "We hope you like our new direction" :) Dave... -- The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system.
RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 08:03:52AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote: The fact you are recording is "What Billboard said was number one". *That* is a fact. Why they decided it was number one isn't the issue. How about if I put up a website wherein I disclose the fact: "This is what the object code to commercial app looks like?" Is this relevant at all? http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/16147.html "The injunction was granted thanks to new European database laws that essentially assume data to be copyrightable" Does that mean things like the Billboard charts? They could certainly try and demonstrate an adverse effect on their revenues from licensing their listings... -- matt "The problem with youth culture and media today is that young people are given the impression that they actually are doing something, when in fact they are only needed as participants in a staged marketing event." - Wolfgang Tillmans
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 01:53:12PM -, Matthew Jones wrote: Is this relevant at all? http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/16147.html "The injunction was granted thanks to new European database laws that essentially assume data to be copyrightable" Almost certainly. As I say, my legal dealings here were 5 years ago when it wasn't... Does that mean things like the Billboard charts? They could certainly try and demonstrate an adverse effect on their revenues from licensing their listings... Well, you're into transatlantic stuff if the site was in the UK, but this new law would massively complicate things. Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk beneath it's shining like gold but better rumours of glory -
Re: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
Netscape has; NETSCAPE.COM.SHOULD-DUMP.AOL-AND-REHIRE.JWZ.BUT.CHECK-OUT.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG mallum On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 12:12:19PM -, Robert Shiels wrote: SLASHDOT.ORG.SUCKS.COMPARED.TO.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG jimphillips has one on Microsoft too. MICROSOFT.COM.IS.NO.MATCH.FOR.THE.UEBER-GEEKS.AT.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG Hmmm /Robert
RE: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
From: Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 January 2001 11:42 What sort of hourly/daily rate does an average PM perl programmer get anyway? Anything from 30 upwards to the sky depending on the client. And the programmer. And the task. Sounds a tad low to me. I've never contracted as a Perl programmer for less than 50/hr. Normally I'd estimate at about 500/day. I'd have thought that if we were selling ourselves as top-notch Perl consultants (Dave H's "getting it right" idea), then it would be more like double that. Dave... -- The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system.
RE: apologies
From: Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 January 2001 13:46 Dave Cross wrote: OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? I could give a talk on either Flash stuff (again, although there's not much else to say ATM that people don't already know) or something on IP - Longtitude and Latitude. Either sounds fine to me. You choose. You're on first :) Dave... The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system.
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 01:55:08PM -, dcross - David Cross wrote: Sounds a tad low to me. I've never contracted as a Perl programmer for less than 50/hr. Normally I'd estimate at about 500/day. I'd have thought that if we were selling ourselves as top-notch Perl consultants (Dave H's "getting it right" idea), then it would be more like double that. When I was working in cardiff the company I was working for would charge clients 500ukp/day for technical development. And this was cardiff. Michael
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* dcross - David Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: From: Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 January 2001 11:42 What sort of hourly/daily rate does an average PM perl programmer get anyway? Anything from 30 upwards to the sky depending on the client. And the programmer. And the task. Sounds a tad low to me. I've never contracted as a Perl programmer for less than 50/hr. Normally I'd estimate at about 500/day. I'd have thought that if we were selling ourselves as top-notch Perl consultants (Dave H's "getting it right" idea), then it would be more like double that. yes, but if it was a proper consultancy youd be expected to write off some of that occasionally and also maybe have some centralised support of the course the real cash comes from ongoing support contracts -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:29:20PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 01:55:08PM -, dcross - David Cross wrote: Sounds a tad low to me. I've never contracted as a Perl programmer for less than 50/hr. Normally I'd estimate at about 500/day. I'd have thought that if we were selling ourselves as top-notch Perl consultants (Dave H's "getting it right" idea), then it would be more like double that. When I was working in cardiff the company I was working for would charge clients 500ukp/day for technical development. And this was cardiff. There's a difference between what the conslutant gets and what the client pays! -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: apologies
At 11:41 18/01/01, binkyuk wrote: At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:54:40 +, Dave told us to: OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? Well I have both The Matrix and MIB with me on DVD and a DVD capable powerbook.. Movie intermission anyone? ...or, after following the conversations on irc, how about you give a 5-10 minute talk on how *not* to join a startup at the same time they go bust and / or the current state of h2g2, or something like that, Neil? ;-) Natalie
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:56:43PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: there is a big question here, do people want to create a small business with a few perl programmers all on largish salaries or do people want to create a proper consulting business aiming to see it grow Both, of course :-) yip, but you have to make a choice -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:16:59 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:56:43PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: there is a big question here, do people want to create a small business with a few perl programmers all on largish salaries or do people want to create a proper consulting business aiming to see it grow Both, of course :-) yip, but you have to make a choice Why? Is there a good reason why the former couldn't gradually over time metamorphose into the latter? Dave...
Re: apologies
Steve Mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Didn't they appear at the Albert Hall with a orchestra in 1970? Their early exposure to classical music didn't impro^H^H^H^H^H change their direction much. They did it again last year and hauled the orchestra round Europe this time. BTW if anyone has the "On the Wings of a Russian Foxbat" 1977 bootleg on MP3 with the better guitarist than their usual one can they email it since Messrs Napster and Gnutella have failed me on this one? It's been cleaned up and officially released: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B06Y3Z/thehighwaystar0a/ Dave // Debating going to Tokyo to see them in March... -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
dcross - David Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 January 2001 11:42 What sort of hourly/daily rate does an average PM perl programmer get anyway? Anything from 30 upwards to the sky depending on the client. And the programmer. And the task. Sounds a tad low to me. I said "from..." -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: apologies
At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:03:39 +, "Andy Wardley" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 18, 4:57am, Dave Cross wrote: OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? I can talk all night given half the chance (and appropriate throatal lubrication :-) ...and most of us would love to listen to you :) Simon has already stepped into the breach. Thanks for the offer tho'. Dave...
RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
People (no particular order): == = Pimp = = Accountant = == == = = BOFH = = Security Guru = == = === === = Perl Gurus' = = Perl Trainee Gurus = === === Out source to other similar companies for: - design - mass HTMLing Money: Base salary and split proffit according to which category your in. Open source / clients: Create projects for open source community (sell to clients with support). When not assigned to a specific money making project or client create next project to OS and make money from. Create client base with support contracts. Long term@ pimp out to only the best companies. Location A big pub in central London. Top floors: development Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. I've got a contact who says he can get hold of a million or so VC if this was an actually business plan, but then you have to pay them back with interest and stuff. Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one. Leo
RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hatworm discovered
[snip the first bit... all great] Location A big pub in central London. Top floors: development Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops Purleese wireless is the only way to go. :-) Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. I've got a contact who says he can get hold of a million or so VC if this was an actually business plan, but then you have to pay them back with interest and stuff. Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one. So who's any good at business plans... (I have a book but) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:21:45AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:16:59 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:56:43PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: there is a big question here, do people want to create a small business with a few perl programmers all on largish salaries or do people want to create a proper consulting business aiming to see it grow Both, of course :-) yip, but you have to make a choice Why? Is there a good reason why the former couldn't gradually over time metamorphose into the latter? Dave... I presume if the vast majority of the money is going directly into people's pockets there won't be much going into things that build the infrastructure of the company - training and so on. Also one way to build a business is to create a "product" and build round that (eg cough spew choke Vignette). Working on this sort of thing may not result in great income in the short term compared to say chucking ten people off to Goldman Sachs. jp
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Leo Lapworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: People (no particular order): == = Pimp = = Accountant = == == = = BOFH = = Security Guru = == = === === = Perl Gurus' = = Perl Trainee Gurus = === === i'd add an MD/CEO who would initially do a lot of the pimping, the accountant could initially also be outsourced. the BOFH and Security Guru could be rolled into one. i'd also hire non-Perl programmers so that you didn't just have one leg to the stool Money: Base salary and split proffit according to which category your in. founders split say 50% of the equity, 25% reserved for latecomers and 25% pencilled for VC types contractors could expect to take a 50 to 75% drop in salary Open source / clients: Create projects for open source community (sell to clients with support). When not assigned to a specific money making project or client create next project to OS and make money from. agreed! Create client base with support contracts. also create partner arrangements, i can think of at least 3 big companies i maybe could arrange partnerships with, that in some cases would double the daily rate for consultancy Location snip ;-) have to pay them back with interest and stuff. equity surely? ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 04:42:55PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: have to pay them back with interest and stuff. equity surely? ;-) Yes. But if you're successful the "interest" rate is huge ;) But if you're not, well, they lose the money and not you. FWIW It's much easier to negotiate with VCs if you're already well established and actually have revenue and commitments and stuff Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk my Uncle Sol had a skunk farm but the skunks caught cold -
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Leo Lapworth wrote: Location A big pub in central London. Top floors: development Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. What about a bed / kip room and of course a play room - and I do not mean some 70's swingers thing - a P2, etc ... Greg a contractor in a "quite period" I've got a contact who says he can get hold of a million or so VC if this was an actually business plan, but then you have to pay them back with interest and stuff. Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one. Leo
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Tony Bowden ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 04:42:55PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: have to pay them back with interest and stuff. equity surely? ;-) Yes. But if you're successful the "interest" rate is huge ;) But if you're not, well, they lose the money and not you. FWIW It's much easier to negotiate with VCs if you're already well established and actually have revenue and commitments and stuff well, this is all getting a bit close to the grain for me, if anyone wants to discuss the possibilities of a non-perl specialised arena consultancy feel free to to email me off list, however there may be nasty NDA's involved -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
RE: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Neil So who's any good at business plans... (I have a book but) I know a few things about setting up and running SMEs. Happy to sit down for an hour or so one evening with someone if it would be of assistance. Unfortunately, I'm far too tied up with current venture to get much more involved than this. Regs, J. . Message Central plc Suite K307 Tower Bridge Business Complex 100 Clements Road London SE16 4DG Web: www.msgc.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +44 20 7394 9511 Fax: +44 20 7231 8201 If you receive this email by mistake, please destroy your copy, having returned this copy to the sender. This email and any attachments to it may have been tampered with. Message Central plc cannot warrant the accuracy, completeness or freedom from viruses of this email or any attachments. You are strongly advised to check this email for viruses before downloading or opening any attachments. Opinions expressed in this email are those of the author and not of Message Central plc. -Original Message- From: Neil Ford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 18 January 2001 04:33 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered [snip the first bit... all great] Location A big pub in central London. Top floors: development Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops Purleese wireless is the only way to go. :-) Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. I've got a contact who says he can get hold of a million or so VC if this was an actually business plan, but then you have to pay them back with interest and stuff. Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one. So who's any good at business plans... (I have a book but) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Greg McCarroll wrote: * Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Leo Lapworth wrote: Location A big pub in central London. Top floors: development Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. What about a bed / kip room and of course a play room - and I do not mean some 70's swingers thing - a P2, etc ... nope, they are rewards, rewards are for sucess ;-) Thats were a few people have gone wrong lately then ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
[Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
In a bad mailbox incident I lost a couple of mails from BOFH inclined people. Would y'all mail me again please? Ta, Dave -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: PIMB THC-shirts
From: "Andy Wardley" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] More effective, yes, because none of the THC is lost to the atmosphere. However, it takes an hour or so to notice the effects coming on and when they do, there's no way to stop them. So you might end up ingesting twice as much as you planned, which you may (or may not :-) consider wasteful if half as much would have had the desired effect. A friend (*ahem*) lost an entire 24hr period at Glastonbury owing to a mistakenly consuming a 'teenth spilt between two people on a peanut butter sandwich. Water pipes/bongs are actually worse than joints for avoiding nasty stuff in the smoke: THC is more soluble in the water than tar so you end up reducing the good:bad ratio. There is a paper somewhere on http://www.norml.org/ about this. Paul
Re: RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
From: "Leo Lapworth" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've got a contact who says he can get hold of a million or so VC if this was an actually business plan, but then you have to pay them back with interest and stuff. That's not VC then, that's a "loan". VC is where you heave up a huge chunk of cash in return for a chunk of company and hope said company doesn't end up being laughed at and taunted on fuckedcompany.com Is a million considered a lot in the UK still? It's considered a lot over here right now :-) But then so's a 24hr stretch of uninterrupted electricity :-( Anyway, the longer you leave obtaining angel, seed and VC cash and the more you can generate a demonstrably working revenue model the better. Consider VC a last resort -- aim rather for alliances and partnerships, or a straight out acquisition. Paul
Re: Compiling mod_perl on Debian
Welcome to London.pm ;-) From: "Niklas Nordebo" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyway, I have a problem I hoped someone might be able to help me with, when trying to compile mod_perl statically into Apache on my Debian box I get apt-get install libapache-mod-perl gets you the dynamic version -- is there a particular advantage to having it statically built? /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ldb $ zcat /usr/share/doc/libdb2/changelog.Debian.gz db (2:2.7.7-2.2) unstable; urgency=low * NMU * Don't supply libdb.so.[23] anymore. GLibc will handle the runtime libs for the now obsolete ones -- Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:43:15 -0400 So you might want to check your libc's are up to date. Probably worth taking this up on debian-users if still no luck here. Paul
Re: Compiling mod_perl on Debian
On or about Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:28:13AM -0800, Paul Makepeace typed: apt-get install libapache-mod-perl gets you the dynamic version -- is there a particular advantage to having it statically built? Want mod_perl and mod_ssl? Debian stable doesn't do this easily without recompilation. R
RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, you wrote: People (no particular order): == = Pimp = = Accountant = == == = = BOFH = = Security Guru = == = === === = Perl Gurus' = = Perl Trainee Gurus = === === ooh .. if you have room for an almost acceptable Perl programmer with a total inability to turn up on time, and an even worse habit of working too long, let me know... I'll be in for a bit of that. If its any consolation I'm not as crap now as I was 6 months ago .. and a whole lot less crap than I was a year ago ... and I know a Security Guru who would probably be up for it as well .. and hes a proper one too, I believe his wardrobe has all three shades of hat :) -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Aaron Trevena ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Also many hackers have more business sense than their MDs - look at success of projects started by hackers or engineers versus that of those started by MBAs or middle managers.. business sense != project sucess why not? I would have thought similar skills were involved in both? -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] brook's law: adding manpower to a late software project makes it later
Re: RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
From: "David Cantrell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is a million considered a lot in the UK still? Not by people who can add up. OK, same here then. Having said that, it's amazing how much people can stretch a few $currency_unit if they *don't* have investment :-) But then so's a 24hr stretch of uninterrupted electricity Yeah, it's always amazed me just how crap the north American power system seems to be. Even in cities. This is a different issue, http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/power.crisis/ The US has much more to worry about than the UK, like high water tables, vicious weather and earthquakes. The smart money goes on hosting in Texas (San Antonio) not California though -- relatively earthquake/tornado/storm/etc-free! On the upside, the US doesn't have BT "engineers" to deal with... Paul
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
"Paul Makepeace" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The US has much more to worry about than the UK, like high water tables, vicious weather and earthquakes. The smart money goes on hosting in Texas (San Antonio) not California though -- relatively earthquake/tornado/storm/etc-free! You're talking rackspace.com, I take it? ;-) On the upside, the US doesn't have BT "engineers" to deal with... Trust me, they have much, much worse... -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 12:11:23PM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote: From: "David Cantrell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yeah, it's always amazed me just how crap the north American power system seems to be. Even in cities. This is a different issue, http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/power.crisis/ I know :-) Although actually, I feel it is at least a bit related. It seems that CA tried to copy the de-regulation which was implemented in various parts of Europe (including the UK) but that they decided to tamper with a system which demonstrably worked (if it ain't broke don't fix it!), but worse, they tried to shoe-horn it into a completely different environment. The UK has for many years had a fair amount of spare generating capacity, and there are new power stations being built. CA did not have any spare generating capacity of note, and has not built any new power stations. Duh. The US has much more to worry about than the UK, like high water tables, vicious weather and earthquakes. And the UK doesn't have high water tables (in some places and not in others, just like anywhere else) or vicious weather (again, in some places not in others, just like anywhere else). But it strikes me as being absurd that I hear EVERY YEAR of the power going out for large areas of major cities in .us, something which just doesn't happen in Europe. The smart money goes on hosting in Texas (San Antonio) not California though -- relatively earthquake/tornado/storm/etc-free! On the upside, the US doesn't have BT "engineers" to deal with... Nah, you just have their cousins in the baby bells :-) Actually, I've had no problems with BT engineers in the three years I've lived here. My voice line came in just fine and has never stopped working. Same with the ISDN, and the ADSL line. Telewest, on the other hand - I wouldn't trust them to run the hundred yard dash, let alone my comms. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Robin Szemeti wrote: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, you wrote: Having something to crash on when pulling an all-nighter is, IMO, a bad idea as it encourages pulling all-nighters. You just don't write good code at 2 in the morning, and end up spending just as much time untangling it as you did writing it in the first place. yes and no. If you need to do an allnighter and its unavoidable (due to a client suddenly changing ther mind) then theres no problem doing it .. just charge em bigtime! Personally I have done (thinks) about 4 this year ... two of them due to sudden arrival of previously unannounced deadline .. (result: badly implemented crap code, stress, huge costs and a re write a week later) and 2 because I was just so tied up in it and it was going so well that I didn;t want to stop .. so I didn't ... the code from the latter is untouched to date and some of the better code I've written. There is nothing wrong per-se with working on into the night ... the lack of interruption and no pesky phones ringing can be the ideal time to engross yourself in the trickiest and most complex of problems ... but trying to hack something together whilst knackered is a recipie for disaster. My motto: if it feels good, do it. Code when you feel at your most productive, if you don;t think your minds on the job bale out and play. One of the reason I hated a 9 to 5 job was people asking me to do hard things before lunchtime and having to quit doing hard things because it was 5:00. And in any case, if you *need* to work all night, there's something wrong with the project management. no matter how well planned the project I have yet to find a client who hasn;t kept some small but deadly surprise as a secret to throw in just when they know its getting close. Some of these bombshells are smaller than others .. but they always seem to be there, waiting ... no problem .. just expect em an be prepared .. and charge em BigTime :) Have you done much stuff under a DSDM style - ie. qrite a quick protype and then iterate on that ? (massive internal rewrites are allowed under this as it tries to stress the interface / functionality not the internal implentation) Greg I would be VERY interrested in working on a project managed by the XP method. It sounds to good to be true, (and I;ve done enough project managment to know that it probably is too good to be true) but I shure would like to give it a go. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
techmeet aftermath
Thanks to all for visiting our humble factory. I hope you all enjoyed it as much as I. We have gained a set of whiteboard pens, and a pile of andy wardley's notes. Any takers? The slight downside was a brief invasion by a unshaven fellow clutching a can of tennants extra. He asked if he could watch andy wardley talk for a while (well, he didn't actually know his name afaik), but after a few minutes I asked him to leave as he was looking around our office in a worrying way. I'm pretty sure he didn't pick up anything before I noticed him there though... Err, apologies if that person was actually a perl monger... Anyway, Paul and Philip (the hosts) where very impressed with the enthusiastic atmosphere, and would be happy for london.pm to come by again. A couple of references for my (rather sketchy) talk... http://slub.org/ - a generative music collaboration between ade ward and myself http://generative.net/ - various things, including a discussion of Data Beautification with MIDI::Realtime http://sound-hack.org/ - various things http://sound-hack.org/MIDI/Realtime.pm - better version than CPAN (sorry) I am happy to discuss this stuff in greater detail off-list, or in the generative art mailing list 'eu-gene' at generative.net. Best, Alex
Re: thoth
An entity claiming to be Roger Burton West ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : : Mail me privately for a URL of a working thoth installation. : That would be c.l.p.m ... unless of course you aren't referring to Tom. Mark -- Mark Rogaski | "What in the ding-dong-heckama-doodle [EMAIL PROTECTED] | hell is that?" http://www.pobox.com/~wendigo | -- a farmer in the 1992 __END__ | movie "Seedpeople" PGP signature
Re: thoth
Mark Rogaski wrote: An entity claiming to be Roger Burton West ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : : Mail me privately for a URL of a working thoth installation. That would be c.l.p.m ... unless of course you aren't referring to Tom. I think he doesn't use that appellation any more. BICBW. Cheers, Philip
Re: PIMB THC-shirts
Water pipes/bongs are actually worse than joints for avoiding nasty stuff in the smoke: THC is more soluble in the water than tar so you end up reducing So do people smoke the stuff (as opposed to consumption) for convenience or maybe the familiarity of the ritual of smoking?
