[LUTE] Re: De Visee
My suspicion would be that the nails Sor heard were just not prepared well. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. Classical Guitarist/Lutenist > On May 8, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Antonio Corona wrote: > > Sor's words: > Never in my life have I heard a guitarist whose playing was > supportable, if he played with the nails. The nails can produce but > very few gradations in the quality of the sound: the piano passages can > never be singing, nor the fortes sufficiently full. Their performance > is, to mine, what the harpsichord was in comparison to the > pianoforteâthe piano passages were always jingling, and, in the fortes, > the noise of the keys predominated over the sound of the wires. It is > necessary that the performance of Mr. Aguado should have so many > excellent qualities as it possesses, to excuse his employment of the > nails ; and he himself would have condemned the use of them if he had > not attained such a degree of agility, nor found himself beyond the > time of life in which we are able to contend against the bend of the > fingers acquired by a long habitude. > Best wishes, > Antonio > __ > > From: George Torres > To: Roman Turovsky > Cc: magnus andersson ; Martyn Hodgson > ; Lute List ; Monica > Hall > Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:45 > Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee > Sor reportedly used a nail on his thumb, for special effect, after > meeting Aguado, who did play with nails. >> On May 8, 2019, at 10:00 AM, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Fernando Sor. >> RT >> >> >> On 5/8/2019 9:35 AM, magnus andersson wrote: >>> Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo > player who >>> explicitly played without fingernails? >>> >>> [1]Skickat frÃÆÃ ¥n Yahoo Mail fÃÆÃ ¶r iPhone >>> >>> Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson >>> <[2]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu>: >>> >>> Hear! hear!. >>> >>> And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means > that De >>> >>> Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths > start >>> >>> Martyn >>> >>> On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall >>> >>> <[2][3]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: >>> >>> Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket > - >>> >>> that's just another myth. The relevant source states that >>> >>> Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was > given 500 >>> >>> Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not >>> >>> withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta]. >>> >>> Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of > Savoy at >>> >>> the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform. >>> >>> We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails. >>> >>> Monica >>> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson >>> >>> <[1][3][4]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Dear collective wisdom, >>> From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has > been >>> >>> around >>> since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like > Piccinini, >>> >>> Corbetta >>> (who we know had >>> to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and > still >>> pay >>> >>> his >>> fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de > VisÃÆ Ã ©e >>> had >>> >>> found >>> a way for them to get it to work without shredding and > tearing >>> >>> their >>> strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini: >>> >>> "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, > and >>> >>> cleanly; In >>> the manner that all small touches of the string may be > schietto, >>> >>> like >>> pearl[s]" >>> /Magnus >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly >>> <[2][4][5]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote: >>> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone > document >>> good >>> >>> nail >>> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries > ago? I >>> >>> would >>> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from >>> telescope >>> lenses >>> and mirrors to razors would not work well on > fingernails. The >>> >>> chamois >>> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was > not much >>> >>> better >>> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today > among >>> >>> those >>> who >>> play with nails. >>> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. >>> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran >>> <[1][1][3][5][6]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de> >>> wrote: >>> Hahahaha good point! >>> To add something
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Sor's words: Never in my life have I heard a guitarist whose playing was supportable, if he played with the nails. The nails can produce but very few gradations in the quality of the sound: the piano passages can never be singing, nor the fortes sufficiently full. Their performance is, to mine, what the harpsichord was in comparison to the pianoforteâthe piano passages were always jingling, and, in the fortes, the noise of the keys predominated over the sound of the wires. It is necessary that the performance of Mr. Aguado should have so many excellent qualities as it possesses, to excuse his employment of the nails ; and he himself would have condemned the use of them if he had not attained such a degree of agility, nor found himself beyond the time of life in which we are able to contend against the bend of the fingers acquired by a long habitude. Best wishes, Antonio __ From: George Torres To: Roman Turovsky Cc: magnus andersson ; Martyn Hodgson ; Lute List ; Monica Hall Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:45 Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee Sor reportedly used a nail on his thumb, for special effect, after meeting Aguado, who did play with nails. > On May 8, 2019, at 10:00 AM, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Fernando Sor. > RT > > > On 5/8/2019 9:35 AM, magnus andersson wrote: >>Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo player who >>explicitly played without fingernails? >> >>[1]Skickat frÃÃà ¥n Yahoo Mail fÃÃà ¶r iPhone >> >>Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson >><[2]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu>: >> >> Hear! hear!. >> >> And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means that De >> >> Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths start >> >> Martyn >> >> On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall >> >> <[2][3]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: >> >> Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket - >> >> that's just another myth. The relevant source states that >> >> Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500 >> >> Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not >> >> withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta]. >> >> Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at >> >> the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform. >> >> We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails. >> >> Monica >> >> > On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson >> >> <[1][3][4]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Dear collective wisdom, >> >> >From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been >> >> around >> >> >since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini, >> >> Corbetta >> >> >(who we know had >> >> >to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still >>pay >> >> his >> >> >fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de VisÃà à ©e >>had >> >> found >> >> >a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing >> >> their >> >> >strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini: >> >> > >> >> >"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and >> >> cleanly; In >> >> >the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto, >> >> like >> >> >pearl[s]" >> >> >/Magnus >> >> > >> >> >On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly >> >> ><[2][4][5]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote: >> >> > Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document >>good >> >> nail >> >> > polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I >> >> would >> >> > love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from >>telescope >> >> >lenses >> >> > and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The >> >> chamois >> >> > stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much >> >> better >> >> > in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among >> >> those >> >> >who >> >> > play with nails. >> >> > A. John Mardinly,
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Thanks Roland! I wasn't trying to be contrarian when I recorded the album. I had a lot of classical guitar gigs at the time, so I just kept the nails for the recording session. I knew of historical sources that mention playing with nails, so figured "I'm allowed to do this, right?". Today I would be terrified to record that way. Chris [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, May 8, 2019, 9:47 PM, Roland Hayes wrote: Now that's what i'm talking about! Great sounding nails. How politically incorrect these days! Get [1]Outlook for Android __ From: Roland Hayes Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 12:59:35 PM To: Christopher Wilke Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: De Visee Thank you so much! Get [2]Outlook for Android __ From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Christopher Wilke <[4]chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 10:13:56 AM To: Roland Hayes; M Del; magnus andersson Cc: Yuval Dvoran; John Mardinly; jslute; Lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee It sounds sumpin' like this: [1][5]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2f2a8IQiXH0=OLAK5uy_k-OxLE7w5P 5Fx bDhFpl82dnQRVDnvHVFo=24 The entire album was recorded with nails, in the naivite of my youth before I realized that HIP means "What's Allowable Now." [2]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 7:25 PM, Roland Hayes <[6]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org> wrote: I don't doubt that 17th century players who used nails had nice finish on their nails and a nice sound as a result. My curiosity is what does solo theorbo music sound like when competently played with nails? Get [1]Outlook for Android __ From: [3][7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[4][8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of M Del <[5][9]terli...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 5:57:33 PM To: magnus andersson Cc: Yuval Dvoran; John Mardinly; Roland Hayes; jslute; Lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee My first guitar teacher Rolando Valdes-Blain taught his students to use finely crushed pumice stone and leather from a deer (it happened to be a piece from a hunter friend).Rolando was old enough to play on gut strings until he came back from WW2. Sent from my iPhone > On May 7, 2019, at 5:20 PM, magnus andersson <[6][10]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: > > Dear collective wisdom, > From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been around > since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini, Corbetta > (who we know had > to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay his > fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de VisÃà ©e had found > a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing their > strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini: > > "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and cleanly; In > the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto, like > pearl[s]" > /Magnus > > On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly > <[7][11]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote: >Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good nail >polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I would >love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope > lenses >and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The chamois >stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much better >in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among those > who >play with nails. >A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. >On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran > <[1][1][8][12]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de> >wrote: >Hahahaha good point! >To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Now that's what i'm talking about! Great sounding nails. How
politically incorrect these days!
Get [1]Outlook for Android
__
From: Roland Hayes
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 12:59:35 PM
To: Christopher Wilke
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
Thank you so much!
Get [2]Outlook for Android
__
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf
of Christopher Wilke
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 10:13:56 AM
To: Roland Hayes; M Del; magnus andersson
Cc: Yuval Dvoran; John Mardinly; jslute; Lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
It sounds sumpin' like this:
[1]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2f2a8IQiXH0=OLAK5uy_k-OxLE7w5P5Fx
bDhFpl82dnQRVDnvHVFo=24
The entire album was recorded with nails, in the naivite of my youth
before I realized that HIP means "What's Allowable Now."
[2]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 7:25 PM, Roland Hayes
wrote:
I don't doubt that 17th century players who used nails had nice
finish
on their nails and a nice sound as a result.
My curiosity is what does solo theorbo music sound like when
competently played with nails?
Get [1]Outlook for Android
__
From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
on
behalf
of M Del <[5]terli...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 5:57:33 PM
To: magnus andersson
Cc: Yuval Dvoran; John Mardinly; Roland Hayes; jslute; Lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
My first guitar teacher Rolando Valdes-Blain taught his students
to
use
finely crushed pumice stone and leather from a deer (it happened
to
be
a piece from a hunter friend).Rolando was old enough to play on
gut
strings until he came back from WW2.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 7, 2019, at 5:20 PM, magnus andersson
<[6]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> Dear collective wisdom,
> From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
around
> since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
Corbetta
> (who we know had
> to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still
pay
his
> fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de VisÃÆ Â©e
had
found
> a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
their
> strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
> "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
> the manner that all small touches of the string may be
schietto,
like
> pearl[s]"
> /Magnus
>
> On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
> <[7]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
good
nail
>polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
would
>love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
telescope
> lenses
>and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
chamois
>stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not
much
better
>in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
those
> who
>play with nails.
>A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
> <[1][1][8]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
>wrote:
>Hahahaha good point!
>To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
remember
>you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
years
to
>polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
>("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb
jslute
><[2][2][9]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
> Dear All:
> Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
build
> lutes and
> craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
file
> and
> polish
> their nails.
> Jim Stimson
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message
> From: John Mardinly <[3][3][10]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
> Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Roland Hayes <[4][4][11]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
> Cc:
[LUTE] Re: De Visee Corbetta
You haven't read the whole passage. > On 08 May 2019 at 20:13 Ralf Mattes wrote: > > > > Am Mittwoch, 08. Mai 2019 20:00 CEST, Monica Hall > schrieb: > > >The relevant passage reads as follows. Feel free to correct the > >translation. > > > >Recently the world-famous guitarist, Corbetta, who taught all the > >Potentates of Europe, came here [to Turin] from England. But because > >he had the misfortune to break a fingernail (and with old folk these > >grow again very slowly) it was impossible for him to present himself at > >the festival with his consort, however much he wanted to. Every > >foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500 Thlr. > >and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not withholding > >anything from Signor Corbetta . > > > >Corbetta complained bitterly that he had come from England with great > >difficulty, > > In this case I'd translate "Schaden" with "expenses", but that's a detail. > > > and because he had invited people from Italy to come there > >[to Turin] to play in consort on his guarantee, he had to pay them > >afterwards out of his own pocket. > > That's what I wrote - he had to pay them out of his own pocket. > You claimed: "Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket > - that's just another myth." > > Cheers, RalfD > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: De Visee Corbetta
Am Mittwoch, 08. Mai 2019 20:00 CEST, Monica Hall schrieb: >The relevant passage reads as follows. Feel free to correct the >translation. > >Recently the world-famous guitarist, Corbetta, who taught all the >Potentates of Europe, came here [to Turin] from England. But because >he had the misfortune to break a fingernail (and with old folk these >grow again very slowly) it was impossible for him to present himself at >the festival with his consort, however much he wanted to. Every >foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500 Thlr. >and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not withholding >anything from Signor Corbetta . > >Corbetta complained bitterly that he had come from England with great >difficulty, In this case I'd translate "Schaden" with "expenses", but that's a detail. > and because he had invited people from Italy to come there >[to Turin] to play in consort on his guarantee, he had to pay them >afterwards out of his own pocket. That's what I wrote - he had to pay them out of his own pocket. You claimed: "Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket - that's just another myth." Cheers, RalfD To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] De Visee Corbetta
The relevant passage reads as follows. Feel free to correct the translation. Recently the world-famous guitarist, Corbetta, who taught all the Potentates of Europe, came here [to Turin] from England. But because he had the misfortune to break a fingernail (and with old folk these grow again very slowly) it was impossible for him to present himself at the festival with his consort, however much he wanted to. Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500 Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not withholding anything from Signor Corbetta . Corbetta complained bitterly that he had come from England with great difficulty, and because he had invited people from Italy to come there [to Turin] to play in consort on his guarantee, he had to pay them afterwards out of his own pocket. Es war zwar kurz zuvor der Weltberühmte Guitariste, Corbetto, so alle Potentaten in Europa unterrichtet, aus England alhier angekommen, weil er aber das Malheur, dass ihm der Nagel am Finger abgebrochen, und gar langsam ben alten Leuten wieder zu wachsen pfleget, so war ihm ohnmöglich mit seiner Musique sich ben dem Fest auffzuführen, wie sehr er es auch verlangte. Es ward einem jedem fremden Musico, so in Turin am Hoffsich hören liess 500. Thlr. gegeben; und wolte Madame Royale sich darinn absonderlich zu ihren Zeiten sehen lassen, und dem Signor Corbetto isso nichts abbrechen. (1723 edition ends here). Corbetto klagte sehr, dasser mit grossen Schaden aus England gekommen sintemahl er die Leute aus Italien der Musique wegen auff seine Garantie dahin kommen lassen, und dieselbe nochmahls aus seinen Beutel auszahlen müssen. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Sor reportedly used a nail on his thumb, for special effect, after meeting
Aguado, who did play with nails.
> On May 8, 2019, at 10:00 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>
> Fernando Sor.
> RT
>
>
> On 5/8/2019 9:35 AM, magnus andersson wrote:
>>Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo player who
>>explicitly played without fingernails?
>>
>>[1]Skickat från Yahoo Mail för iPhone
>>
>>Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson
>>:
>>
>> Hear! hear!.
>>
>> And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means that De
>>
>> Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths start
>>
>> Martyn
>>
>> On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall
>>
>> <[2]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
>>
>> that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
>>
>> Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500
>>
>> Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
>>
>> withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
>>
>> Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at
>>
>> the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
>>
>> We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
>>
>> Monica
>>
>> > On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
>>
>> <[1][3]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Dear collective wisdom,
>>
>> >From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
>>
>> around
>>
>> >since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
>>
>> Corbetta
>>
>> >(who we know had
>>
>> >to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still
>>pay
>>
>> his
>>
>> >fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e
>>had
>>
>> found
>>
>> >a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
>>
>> their
>>
>> >strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
>>
>> cleanly; In
>>
>> >the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
>>
>> like
>>
>> >pearl[s]"
>>
>> >/Magnus
>>
>> >
>>
>> >On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
>>
>> ><[2][4]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
>>good
>>
>> nail
>>
>> > polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
>>
>> would
>>
>> > love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
>>telescope
>>
>> >lenses
>>
>> > and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
>>
>> chamois
>>
>> > stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
>>
>> better
>>
>> > in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
>>
>> those
>>
>> >who
>>
>> > play with nails.
>>
>> > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>>
>> > On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
>>
>> ><[1][1][3][5]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > Hahahaha good point!
>>
>> > To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
>>
>> remember
>>
>> > you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
>>
>> years to
>>
>> > polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
>>
>> > ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
>>
>> > <[2][2][4][6]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>>
>> >Dear All:
>>
>> >Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
>>
>> build
>>
>> >lutes and
>>
>> >craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
>>
>> file
>>
>> >and
>>
>> >polish
>>
>> >their nails.
>>
>> >Jim Stimson
>>
>> >Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>
>> > Original message
>>
>> >From: John Mardinly <[3][3][5][7]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>>
>> >Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>
>> >To: Roland Hayes
>><[4][4][6][8]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>>
>> >Cc: Lute List <[5][5][7][9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>>
>> >Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>>
>> >More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of
>>
>> the
>>
>> >modern
>>
>> >files and abrasives used to polish the nails.
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Peripherally related, and speaking of Burwell and nails…
..the Burwell informant tells us that during the spectacle of performance
attention is drawn to the hands, which should be kept clean, with the nails
free of any “black velvet.” Of course this is a reference to left-hand nails,
with the emphasis on keeping the hands visibly clean. This is not only because
unclean hands were associated with lower social groups, but also because the
spectacle of playing was as important as the sound. As the author later puts
it, a lutenist engages with the audience by “ravishing the soul by the ear and
the eyes by the swiftness and the neatness of all the fingers.”
Jorge
> On May 8, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote:
>
> Piccinini and Mary Burwell's teacher are quite clear about this !
>
> Best,
>
> Jean-Marie
>
> Le 08/05/2019 à 15:35, magnus andersson a écrit :
>>Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo player who
>>explicitly played without fingernails?
>>
>>[1]Skickat från Yahoo Mail för iPhone
>>
>>Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson
>>:
>>
>> Hear! hear!.
>>
>> And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means that De
>>
>> Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths start
>>
>> Martyn
>>
>> On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall
>>
>> <[2]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
>>
>> that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
>>
>> Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500
>>
>> Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
>>
>> withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
>>
>> Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at
>>
>> the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
>>
>> We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
>>
>> Monica
>>
>> > On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
>>
>> <[1][3]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Dear collective wisdom,
>>
>> >From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
>>
>> around
>>
>> >since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
>>
>> Corbetta
>>
>> >(who we know had
>>
>> >to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still
>>pay
>>
>> his
>>
>> >fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e
>>had
>>
>> found
>>
>> >a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
>>
>> their
>>
>> >strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
>>
>> cleanly; In
>>
>> >the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
>>
>> like
>>
>> >pearl[s]"
>>
>> >/Magnus
>>
>> >
>>
>> >On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
>>
>> ><[2][4]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
>>good
>>
>> nail
>>
>> > polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
>>
>> would
>>
>> > love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
>>telescope
>>
>> >lenses
>>
>> > and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
>>
>> chamois
>>
>> > stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
>>
>> better
>>
>> > in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
>>
>> those
>>
>> >who
>>
>> > play with nails.
>>
>> > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>>
>> > On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
>>
>> ><[1][1][3][5]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > Hahahaha good point!
>>
>> > To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
>>
>> remember
>>
>> > you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
>>
>> years to
>>
>> > polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
>>
>> > ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
>>
>> > <[2][2][4][6]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>>
>> >Dear All:
>>
>> >Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
>>
>> build
>>
>> >lutes and
>>
>> >craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
>>
>> file
>>
>> >and
>>
>> >polish
>>
>> >their nails.
>>
>> >Jim Stimson
>>
>> >Sent
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Piccinini and Mary Burwell's teacher are quite clear about this !
Best,
Jean-Marie
Le 08/05/2019 à 15:35, magnus andersson a écrit :
Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo player who
explicitly played without fingernails?
[1]Skickat från Yahoo Mail för iPhone
Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson
:
Hear! hear!.
And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means that De
Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths start
Martyn
On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall
<[2]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500
Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at
the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
Monica
> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
<[1][3]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>
>Dear collective wisdom,
>From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
around
>since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
Corbetta
>(who we know had
>to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still
pay
his
>fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e
had
found
>a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
their
>strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
>"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
>the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
like
>pearl[s]"
>/Magnus
>
>On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
><[2][4]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
good
nail
> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
would
> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
telescope
>lenses
> and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
chamois
> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
better
> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
those
>who
> play with nails.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
><[1][1][3][5]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> wrote:
> Hahahaha good point!
> To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
remember
> you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
years to
> polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
> <[2][2][4][6]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>Dear All:
>Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
build
>lutes and
>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
file
>and
>polish
>their nails.
>Jim Stimson
>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message
>From: John Mardinly <[3][3][5][7]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>To: Roland Hayes
<[4][4][6][8]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>Cc: Lute List <[5][5][7][9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of
the
>modern
>files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
prepared
>nails give
>a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
teacher
>back
>in
>1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
>prepared
>his
>nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a
saw-cut
>slot in
>it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden
block.
The
>nail was
>then rubbed back and forth
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Well, that's not the point I was making. Which is that, even if some
theorbo players employed nails (or didn't), we cannot draw the
unequivocal conclusion that the period guitar was therefore also played
with nails. And, in particular, that this was the practice that De
Visee generally expected.
Richard Sweeney, who uses nails, gives a reasonably even-handed account
in this blog:
[1]âThe best way of play' | Richard Sweeney
âThe best way of play' | Richard Sweeney
Around 13 years ago after my end-of-year recital as a student studying
classical guitar in Dublin I ceremoniousl...
MH
On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 14:42:51 BST, magnus andersson
wrote:
Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo player
who
explicitly played without fingernails?
[1]Skickat frà ¥n Yahoo Mail fà ¶r iPhone
Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson
<[2]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
Hear! hear!.
And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means that
De
Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths
start
Martyn
On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall
<[2][3]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given
500
Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy
at
the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
Monica
> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
<[1][3][4]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>
>Dear collective wisdom,
>From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
around
>since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
Corbetta
>(who we know had
>to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still
pay
his
>fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e
had
found
>a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
their
>strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
>"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
>the manner that all small touches of the string may be
schietto,
like
>pearl[s]"
>/Magnus
>
>On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
><[2][4][5]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
good
nail
> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago?
I
would
> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
telescope
>lenses
> and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails.
The
chamois
> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not
much
better
> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today
among
those
>who
> play with nails.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
><[1][1][3][5][6]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> wrote:
> Hahahaha good point!
> To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
remember
> you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
years to
> polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb
jslute
> <[2][2][4][6][7]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>Dear All:
>Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
build
>lutes and
>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way
to
file
>and
>polish
>their nails.
>Jim Stimson
>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message
>From: John Mardinly
<[3][3][5][7][8]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>To: Roland Hayes
<[4][4][6][8][9]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>Cc: Lute List <[5][5][7][9][10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>More lacking than
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
It sounds sumpin' like this:
[1]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2f2a8IQiXH0=OLAK5uy_k-OxLE7w5P5Fx
bDhFpl82dnQRVDnvHVFo=24
The entire album was recorded with nails, in the naivite of my youth
before I realized that HIP means "What's Allowable Now."
[2]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 7:25 PM, Roland Hayes
wrote:
I don't doubt that 17th century players who used nails had nice
finish
on their nails and a nice sound as a result.
My curiosity is what does solo theorbo music sound like when
competently played with nails?
Get [1]Outlook for Android
__
From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
behalf
of M Del <[5]terli...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 5:57:33 PM
To: magnus andersson
Cc: Yuval Dvoran; John Mardinly; Roland Hayes; jslute; Lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
My first guitar teacher Rolando Valdes-Blain taught his students to
use
finely crushed pumice stone and leather from a deer (it happened to
be
a piece from a hunter friend).Rolando was old enough to play on gut
strings until he came back from WW2.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 7, 2019, at 5:20 PM, magnus andersson
<[6]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> Dear collective wisdom,
> From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
around
> since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
Corbetta
> (who we know had
> to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay
his
> fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e had
found
> a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
their
> strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
> "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
> the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
like
> pearl[s]"
> /Magnus
>
> On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
> <[7]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good
nail
>polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
would
>love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
> lenses
>and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
chamois
>stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
better
>in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
those
> who
>play with nails.
>A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
> <[1][1][8]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
>wrote:
>Hahahaha good point!
>To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
remember
>you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
years
to
>polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
>("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
><[2][2][9]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
> Dear All:
> Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
build
> lutes and
> craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
file
> and
> polish
> their nails.
> Jim Stimson
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message
> From: John Mardinly <[3][3][10]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
> Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Roland Hayes <[4][4][11]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
> Cc: Lute List <[5][5][12]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
> More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of
the
> modern
> files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
prepared
> nails give
> a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
teacher
> back
> in
> 1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
> prepared
> his
> nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a
saw-cut
> slot in
> it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block.
The
> nail was
> then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot,
which
> acted as
> a track to guide the nail. When I began to study
metallurgy
and
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Fernando Sor.
RT
On 5/8/2019 9:35 AM, magnus andersson wrote:
Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo player who
explicitly played without fingernails?
[1]Skickat från Yahoo Mail för iPhone
Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson
:
Hear! hear!.
And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means that De
Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths start
Martyn
On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall
<[2]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500
Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at
the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
Monica
> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
<[1][3]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>
>Dear collective wisdom,
>From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
around
>since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
Corbetta
>(who we know had
>to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still
pay
his
>fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e
had
found
>a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
their
>strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
>"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
>the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
like
>pearl[s]"
>/Magnus
>
>On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
><[2][4]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
good
nail
> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
would
> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
telescope
>lenses
> and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
chamois
> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
better
> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
those
>who
> play with nails.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
><[1][1][3][5]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> wrote:
> Hahahaha good point!
> To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
remember
> you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
years to
> polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
> <[2][2][4][6]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>Dear All:
>Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
build
>lutes and
>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
file
>and
>polish
>their nails.
>Jim Stimson
>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message
>From: John Mardinly <[3][3][5][7]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>To: Roland Hayes
<[4][4][6][8]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>Cc: Lute List <[5][5][7][9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of
the
>modern
>files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
prepared
>nails give
>a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
teacher
>back
>in
>1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
>prepared
>his
>nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a
saw-cut
>slot in
>it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden
block.
The
>nail was
>then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot,
which
>acted as
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo player who
explicitly played without fingernails?
[1]Skickat frÃÂ¥n Yahoo Mail för iPhone
Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson
:
Hear! hear!.
And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means that De
Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths start
Martyn
On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall
<[2]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500
Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at
the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
Monica
> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
<[1][3]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>
>Dear collective wisdom,
>From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
around
>since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
Corbetta
>(who we know had
>to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still
pay
his
>fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e
had
found
>a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
their
>strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
>"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
>the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
like
>pearl[s]"
>/Magnus
>
>On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
><[2][4]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
good
nail
> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
would
> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
telescope
>lenses
> and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
chamois
> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
better
> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
those
>who
> play with nails.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
><[1][1][3][5]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> wrote:
> Hahahaha good point!
> To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
remember
> you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
years to
> polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
> <[2][2][4][6]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>Dear All:
>Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
build
>lutes and
>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
file
>and
>polish
>their nails.
>Jim Stimson
>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message
>From: John Mardinly <[3][3][5][7]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>To: Roland Hayes
<[4][4][6][8]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>Cc: Lute List <[5][5][7][9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of
the
>modern
>files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
prepared
>nails give
>a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
teacher
>back
>in
>1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
>prepared
>his
>nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a
saw-cut
>slot in
>it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden
block.
The
>nail was
>then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot,
which
>acted as
>a track to guide the nail. When I began to study
metallurgy and
>the art
>of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Hear! hear!.
And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means that De
Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths start
Martyn
On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall
wrote:
Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500
Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at
the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
Monica
> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
<[1]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>
>Dear collective wisdom,
>From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
around
>since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
Corbetta
>(who we know had
>to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay
his
>fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e had
found
>a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
their
>strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
>"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
>the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
like
>pearl[s]"
>/Magnus
>
>On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
><[2]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good
nail
> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
would
> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
>lenses
> and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
chamois
> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
better
> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
those
>who
> play with nails.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
><[1][1][3]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> wrote:
> Hahahaha good point!
> To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
remember
> you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
years to
> polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
> <[2][2][4]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>Dear All:
>Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
build
>lutes and
>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
file
>and
>polish
>their nails.
>Jim Stimson
>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message
>From: John Mardinly <[3][3][5]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>To: Roland Hayes <[4][4][6]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>Cc: Lute List <[5][5][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of
the
>modern
>files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
prepared
>nails give
>a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
teacher
>back
>in
>1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
>prepared
>his
>nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a
saw-cut
>slot in
>it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block.
The
>nail was
>then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot,
which
>acted as
>a track to guide the nail. When I began to study
metallurgy and
>the art
>of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
>microstructure,
>I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the
nails
>that
>were
>quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
>A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>> On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
><[6][6][8]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>wrote:
>>
>> Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as
I
>understand,
>> but
>>
>> I have always thought his lute pieces were merely
>
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Am Mittwoch, 08. Mai 2019 10:04 CEST, magnus andersson schrieb: >Dear Monica, you ´re right- >Francesco seems to have been the scheduled star musician of the >evening. At >the banquet, an ensemble consisting of lutes, theorboes, angeliques and >guitars was >heard, and Francesco was probably thought of as the icing on the >cake... > No, that ensemble of plucked instuments describes a christmas service at the church St. Johann in the presence of the king and his mother. Interestingly, Ebert remarks that such soft music isn't really approproate for churches and other large spaces. Cheers, RalfD To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Am Mittwoch, 08. Mai 2019 09:40 CEST, Monica Hall
schrieb:
> Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket - that's just
> another myth.
Sorry, but that's nit what Ebert is writing. To qoute:
"... und dieselbe nachmals aus seinem Beutel auszahlen müssen."
"Dieselbe" here referes to 'Musique' (i.e. ensemble) comming from italy he
ordered/booked and guaranteed (payment).
He lso complains that he had high costs ('Schaden') traveling from England.
> The relevant source states that
> Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500 Thlr.
> and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not withholding anything
> [from Signor Corbetta].
Nowhere does Ebert mention whether those 500 Thaler was given to each indiviual
performer (highly unlikely) and not to
the ensemble.
Cheers, Ralf Mattes
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Should be 1724...
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens Lex
Eisenhardt
Verzonden: woensdag 8 mei 2019 11:43
Aan: 'LuteList'
Onderwerp: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
The 'myth' is probably based on Ebert's Vermehrte Reise Beschreibung (1674):
https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/id/PPN518447235?tify={%22pages%22:[311],%22view%22:%22info%22}
Lex
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens Yuval
Dvoran
Verzonden: woensdag 8 mei 2019 10:43
Aan: LuteList
Onderwerp: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
I was always wondering where this story comes from - thank you Magnus!
By the way, you can buy the book here:
https://www.zvab.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=19245595719=hl%3Don%26tn%3Dauli%2Bapronii%2Bvermehrte%2Breise%26sortby%3D20%26an%3Debert
.and if that's to expensive, you can download it at the site of the SLUB:
https://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/1501/1/
Am 08.05.2019 10:04 schrieb magnus andersson :
>
>Dear Monica, you re right-
>Francesco seems to have been the scheduled star musician of the
>evening. At
>the banquet, an ensemble consisting of lutes, theorboes, angeliques
> and
>guitars was
>heard, and Francesco was probably thought of as the icing on the
>cake...
>Here is the original description written by Adam Ebert, in his
> travel
>diary:
>
> [1]https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=6PpWcAAJ=de=GBS.P
> A
>251
>Best, Magnus
>
>On Wednesday, May 8, 2019, 10:00:09 AM GMT+2, Monica Hall
> wrote:
>Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
>that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
>Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given
> 500
>Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
>withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
>Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy
> at
>the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
>We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
>Monica
>> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
><[2]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Dear collective wisdom,
>>From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
>around
>>since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
>Corbetta
>>(who we know had
>>to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still
> pay
>his
>>fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Vis
> e had
>found
>>a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
>their
>>strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>>
>>"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
>cleanly; In
>>the manner that all small touches of the string may be
> schietto,
>like
>>pearl[s]"
>>/Magnus
>>
>>On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
>><[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
> good
>nail
>> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago?
> I
>would
>> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
> telescope
>>lenses
>> and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails.
> The
>chamois
>> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not
> much
>better
>> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today
> among
>those
>>who
>> play with nails.
>> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
>><[1][1][4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
>> wrote:
>> Hahahaha good point!
>> To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
>remember
>> you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
>years to
>> polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
>> ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb
> jslute
>> <[2][2][5]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>>Dear All:
>>Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
>build
>>lutes and
>>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way
> to
>file
>>and
>>polish
>>their nails.
>>Jim Stimson
>>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>> Original message
>>From: John Mardinly <[3][3][6]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>To: Roland Hayes <[4][4][7]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>>Cc: Lute List
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
That sounds very exciting.
How is it that we seldom experience such delight on an album?
I frequently encounter descriptions of music that is never recreated in
the same way.
I remember a CD with lute orchestra from BIS records, and Rolf Lislevand
has done some stuff that goes into the direction.
Any recommendations out there?
On 08.05.19 10:04, magnus andersson wrote:
Dear Monica, you ´re right-
Francesco seems to have been the scheduled star musician of the
evening. At
the banquet, an ensemble consisting of lutes, theorboes, angeliques and
guitars was
heard, and Francesco was probably thought of as the icing on the
cake...
Here is the original description written by Adam Ebert, in his travel
diary:
[1]https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=6PpWcAAJ=de=GBS.PA
251
Best, Magnus
On Wednesday, May 8, 2019, 10:00:09 AM GMT+2, Monica Hall
wrote:
Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500
Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at
the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
Monica
> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
<[2]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>
>Dear collective wisdom,
>From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
around
>since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
Corbetta
>(who we know had
>to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay
his
>fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e had
found
>a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
their
>strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
>"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
>the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
like
>pearl[s]"
>/Magnus
>
>On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
><[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good
nail
> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
would
> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
>lenses
> and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
chamois
> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
better
> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
those
>who
> play with nails.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
><[1][1][4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> wrote:
> Hahahaha good point!
> To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
remember
> you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
years to
> polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
> <[2][2][5]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>Dear All:
>Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
build
>lutes and
>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
file
>and
>polish
>their nails.
>Jim Stimson
>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message
>From: John Mardinly <[3][3][6]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>To: Roland Hayes <[4][4][7]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>Cc: Lute List <[5][5][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of
the
>modern
>files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
prepared
>nails give
>a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
teacher
>back
>in
>1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
>prepared
>his
>nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a
saw-cut
>slot in
>it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block.
The
>nail was
>then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot,
which
>acted as
>
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
The 'myth' is probably based on Ebert's Vermehrte Reise Beschreibung (1674):
https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/id/PPN518447235?tify={%22pages%22:[311],%22view%22:%22info%22}
Lex
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens Yuval
Dvoran
Verzonden: woensdag 8 mei 2019 10:43
Aan: LuteList
Onderwerp: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
I was always wondering where this story comes from - thank you Magnus!
By the way, you can buy the book here:
https://www.zvab.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=19245595719=hl%3Don%26tn%3Dauli%2Bapronii%2Bvermehrte%2Breise%26sortby%3D20%26an%3Debert
.and if that's to expensive, you can download it at the site of the SLUB:
https://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/1501/1/
Am 08.05.2019 10:04 schrieb magnus andersson :
>
>Dear Monica, you re right-
>Francesco seems to have been the scheduled star musician of the
>evening. At
>the banquet, an ensemble consisting of lutes, theorboes, angeliques
> and
>guitars was
>heard, and Francesco was probably thought of as the icing on the
>cake...
>Here is the original description written by Adam Ebert, in his
> travel
>diary:
>
> [1]https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=6PpWcAAJ=de=GBS.P
> A
>251
>Best, Magnus
>
>On Wednesday, May 8, 2019, 10:00:09 AM GMT+2, Monica Hall
> wrote:
>Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
>that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
>Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given
> 500
>Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
>withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
>Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy
> at
>the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
>We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
>Monica
>> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
><[2]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Dear collective wisdom,
>>From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
>around
>>since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
>Corbetta
>>(who we know had
>>to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still
> pay
>his
>>fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Vis
> e had
>found
>>a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
>their
>>strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>>
>>"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
>cleanly; In
>>the manner that all small touches of the string may be
> schietto,
>like
>>pearl[s]"
>>/Magnus
>>
>>On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
>><[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
> good
>nail
>> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago?
> I
>would
>> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
> telescope
>>lenses
>> and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails.
> The
>chamois
>> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not
> much
>better
>> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today
> among
>those
>>who
>> play with nails.
>> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
>><[1][1][4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
>> wrote:
>> Hahahaha good point!
>> To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
>remember
>> you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
>years to
>> polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
>> ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb
> jslute
>> <[2][2][5]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>>Dear All:
>>Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
>build
>>lutes and
>>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way
> to
>file
>>and
>>polish
>>their nails.
>>Jim Stimson
>>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>> Original message
>>From: John Mardinly <[3][3][6]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>To: Roland Hayes <[4][4][7]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>>Cc: Lute List <[5][5][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>>Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>>More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some
> of
>the
>>modern
>>files and abrasives used to polish the
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
I was always wondering where this story comes from - thank you Magnus!
By the way, you can buy the book here:
https://www.zvab.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=19245595719=hl%3Don%26tn%3Dauli%2Bapronii%2Bvermehrte%2Breise%26sortby%3D20%26an%3Debert
..and if that's to expensive, you can download it at the site of the SLUB:
https://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/1501/1/
Am 08.05.2019 10:04 schrieb magnus andersson :
>
> Dear Monica, you ��re right-
> Francesco seems to have been the scheduled star musician of the
> evening. At
> the banquet, an ensemble consisting of lutes, theorboes, angeliques and
> guitars was
> heard, and Francesco was probably thought of as the icing on the
> cake...
> Here is the original description written by Adam Ebert, in his travel
> diary:
> [1]https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=6PpWcAAJ=de=GBS.PA
> 251
> Best, Magnus
>
> On Wednesday, May 8, 2019, 10:00:09 AM GMT+2, Monica Hall
> wrote:
> Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
> that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
> Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500
> Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
> withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
> Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at
> the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
> We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
> Monica
> > On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
> <[2]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear collective wisdom,
> > From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
> around
> > since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
> Corbetta
> > (who we know had
> > to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay
> his
> > fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Vis�� ��e had
> found
> > a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
> their
> > strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
> >
> > "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
> cleanly; In
> > the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
> like
> > pearl[s]"
> > /Magnus
> >
> > On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
> > <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> > Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good
> nail
> > polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
> would
> > love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
> > lenses
> > and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
> chamois
> > stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
> better
> > in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
> those
> > who
> > play with nails.
> > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> > On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
> > <[1][1][4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> > wrote:
> > Hahahaha good point!
> > To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
> remember
> > you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
> years to
> > polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> > ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
> > <[2][2][5]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
> > Dear All:
> > Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
> build
> > lutes and
> > craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
> file
> > and
> > polish
> > their nails.
> > Jim Stimson
> > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> > Original message
> > From: John Mardinly <[3][3][6]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
> > Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
> > To: Roland Hayes <[4][4][7]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
> > Cc: Lute List <[5][5][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
> > More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of
> the
> > modern
> > files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
> prepared
> > nails give
> > a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
> teacher
> > back
> > in
> > 1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
> > prepared
> > his
> > nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Just another idea about the nail issue: wouldn't it be possible for them
instead of polishing to apply something on their nails to make them smooth,
like fat, glue (animal glue gets quite hard when its dry) or something else?
There are also some modern lute and guitar players who put a bit of Vaseline on
their nails before starting to play...Am 08.05.2019 09:40 schrieb Monica Hall
:
>
> Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket - that's just
> another myth. The relevant source states that
>
> Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500 Thlr.
> and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not withholding anything
> [from Signor Corbetta].
>
> Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at the
> time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
>
> We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
>
> Monica
>
> > On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear collective wisdom,
> > From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been around
> > since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini, Corbetta
> > (who we know had
> > to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay his
> > fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visée had found
> > a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing their
> > strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
> >
> > "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and cleanly; In
> > the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto, like
> > pearl[s]"
> > /Magnus
> >
> > On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
> > wrote:
> > Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good nail
> > polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I would
> > love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
> > lenses
> > and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The chamois
> > stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much better
> > in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among those
> > who
> > play with nails.
> > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> > On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
> > <[1][1]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> > wrote:
> > Hahahaha good point!
> > To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to remember
> > you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of years to
> > polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> > ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
> > <[2][2]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
> > Dear All:
> > Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to build
> > lutes and
> > craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to file
> > and
> > polish
> > their nails.
> > Jim Stimson
> > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> > Original message
> > From: John Mardinly <[3][3]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
> > Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
> > To: Roland Hayes <[4][4]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
> > Cc: Lute List <[5][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
> > More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the
> > modern
> > files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly prepared
> > nails give
> > a terrible result for both sound and playability. My teacher
> > back
> > in
> > 1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
> > prepared
> > his
> > nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a saw-cut
> > slot in
> > it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block. The
> > nail was
> > then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot, which
> > acted as
> > a track to guide the nail. When I began to study metallurgy and
> > the art
> > of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
> > microstructure,
> > I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the nails
> > that
> > were
> > quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
> > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> > > On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
> > <[6][6]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as I
> > understand,
> > > but
> > >
> > > I have always thought his lute pieces were merely
> >
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Dear Monica, you ´re right-
Francesco seems to have been the scheduled star musician of the
evening. At
the banquet, an ensemble consisting of lutes, theorboes, angeliques and
guitars was
heard, and Francesco was probably thought of as the icing on the
cake...
Here is the original description written by Adam Ebert, in his travel
diary:
[1]https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=6PpWcAAJ=de=GBS.PA
251
Best, Magnus
On Wednesday, May 8, 2019, 10:00:09 AM GMT+2, Monica Hall
wrote:
Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500
Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at
the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
Monica
> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
<[2]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>
>Dear collective wisdom,
>From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
around
>since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
Corbetta
>(who we know had
>to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay
his
>fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e had
found
>a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
their
>strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
>"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
>the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
like
>pearl[s]"
>/Magnus
>
>On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
><[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good
nail
> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
would
> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
>lenses
> and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
chamois
> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
better
> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
those
>who
> play with nails.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
><[1][1][4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> wrote:
> Hahahaha good point!
> To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
remember
> you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
years to
> polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
> <[2][2][5]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>Dear All:
>Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
build
>lutes and
>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
file
>and
>polish
>their nails.
>Jim Stimson
>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message
>From: John Mardinly <[3][3][6]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>To: Roland Hayes <[4][4][7]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>Cc: Lute List <[5][5][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of
the
>modern
>files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
prepared
>nails give
>a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
teacher
>back
>in
>1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
>prepared
>his
>nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a
saw-cut
>slot in
>it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block.
The
>nail was
>then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot,
which
>acted as
>a track to guide the nail. When I began to study
metallurgy and
>the art
>of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
>microstructure,
>I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the
nails
>that
>were
>quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
>A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>> On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
>
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket - that's just
another myth. The relevant source states that
Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500 Thlr. and
Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not withholding anything [from
Signor Corbetta].
Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at the time
when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
Monica
> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson wrote:
>
>
>Dear collective wisdom,
>From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been around
>since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini, Corbetta
>(who we know had
>to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay his
>fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visée had found
>a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing their
>strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
>"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and cleanly; In
>the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto, like
>pearl[s]"
>/Magnus
>
>On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
> wrote:
> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good nail
> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I would
> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
>lenses
> and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The chamois
> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much better
> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among those
>who
> play with nails.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
><[1][1]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> wrote:
> Hahahaha good point!
> To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to remember
> you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of years to
> polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
> <[2][2]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>Dear All:
>Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to build
>lutes and
>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to file
>and
>polish
>their nails.
>Jim Stimson
>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message
>From: John Mardinly <[3][3]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>To: Roland Hayes <[4][4]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>Cc: Lute List <[5][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the
>modern
>files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly prepared
>nails give
>a terrible result for both sound and playability. My teacher
>back
>in
>1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
>prepared
>his
>nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a saw-cut
>slot in
>it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block. The
>nail was
>then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot, which
>acted as
>a track to guide the nail. When I began to study metallurgy and
>the art
>of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
>microstructure,
>I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the nails
>that
>were
>quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
>A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>> On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
><[6][6]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>wrote:
>>
>> Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as I
>understand,
>> but
>>
>> I have always thought his lute pieces were merely
>arrangements of
>> guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can
>establish
>the
>use
>> of nails.
>>
>> And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most likely
>played
>> theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had yet to
>arrive on
>the
>> scene.
>>
>> Get [1]Outlook for Android
>>
>> This message is intended only for the use of the individual
>or
>entity
>> to which it is addressed, and may contain information that
>is
>
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
I play with with nails, and a video of me playing can be found at the
link below, with more to follow on YouTube soon. I hope this goes some
way to satisfying your curiosity, and criticism (preferably
constructive!) is welcome.
[1]https://youtu.be/msh4dbjLl0k
Toby
On Wed, 8 May 2019, 00:27 Roland Hayes, <[2]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
wrote:
I don't doubt that 17th century players who used nails had nice
finish
on their nails and a nice sound as a result.
My curiosity is what does solo theorbo music sound like when
competently played with nails?
Get [1]Outlook for Android
__
From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
on behalf
of M Del <[5]terli...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 5:57:33 PM
To: magnus andersson
Cc: Yuval Dvoran; John Mardinly; Roland Hayes; jslute; Lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
My first guitar teacher Rolando Valdes-Blain taught his students
to use
finely crushed pumice stone and leather from a deer (it happened
to be
a piece from a hunter friend).Rolando was old enough to play on
gut
strings until he came back from WW2.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 7, 2019, at 5:20 PM, magnus andersson
<[6]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>Dear collective wisdom,
>From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
around
>since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like
Piccinini,
Corbetta
>(who we know had
>to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and
still pay
his
>fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de VisÃ
©e had
found
>a way for them to get it to work without shredding and
tearing
their
>strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
>"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
>the manner that all small touches of the string may be
schietto,
like
>pearl[s]"
>/Magnus
>
>On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
><[7]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
good
nail
> polishing techniques that may have been used centuries
ago? I
would
> love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
telescope
>lenses
> and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails.
The
chamois
> stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not
much
better
> in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today
among
those
>who
> play with nails.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
><[1][1][8]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> wrote:
> Hahahaha good point!
> To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like
to
remember
> you that also plants exist which were used for thousands
of years
to
> polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb
jslute
> <[2][2][9]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>Dear All:
>Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough
to
build
>lutes and
>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way
to
file
>and
>polish
>their nails.
>Jim Stimson
>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message
>From: John Mardinly
<[3][3][10]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>To: Roland Hayes
<[4][4][11]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>Cc: Lute List <[5][5][12]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some
of the
>modern
>files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
prepared
>nails give
>a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
teacher
>back
>in
>1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how
Segovia
>prepared
>
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Very similar to what Segovia used, and certainly about the best there
was mid-20th century, but no comparison to 1500 grit 3M silicon carbide
papers.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
On May 7, 2019, at 2:57 PM, M Del <[1]terli...@aol.com> wrote:
My first guitar teacher Rolando Valdes-Blain taught his students to use
finely crushed pumice stone and leather from a deer (it happened to be
a piece from a hunter friend).Rolando was old enough to play on gut
strings until he came back from WW2.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 7, 2019, at 5:20 PM, magnus andersson
<[2]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
Dear collective wisdom,
From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been around
since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
Corbetta
(who we know had
to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay
his
fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visée had
found
a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
their
strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
like
pearl[s]"
/Magnus
On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
<[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good
nail
polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
would
love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
lenses
and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
chamois
stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
better
in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
those
who
play with nails.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
<[1][1][4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
wrote:
Hahahaha good point!
To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
remember
you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of years
to
polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
<[2][2][5]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
Dear All:
Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
build
lutes and
craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
file
and
polish
their nails.
Jim Stimson
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Original message
From: John Mardinly <[3][3][6]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Roland Hayes <[4][4][7]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
Cc: Lute List <[5][5][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the
modern
files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
prepared
nails give
a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
teacher
back
in
1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
prepared
his
nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a
saw-cut
slot in
it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block.
The
nail was
then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot,
which
acted as
a track to guide the nail. When I began to study metallurgy
and
the art
of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
microstructure,
I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the nails
that
were
quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
<[6][6][9]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
wrote:
Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as I
understand,
but
I have always thought his lute pieces were merely
arrangements of
guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can
establish
the
use
of nails.
And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most likely
played
theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had yet to
arrive on
the
scene.
Get [1]Outlook for Android
This message is intended only for the use of the individual
