[LUTE] future of the lute

[theoj89294]

   Dear luters:
   What does the future hold the lute?
   In the waning days of this wonderful email list (Thanks Wayne!!), I
   thought I would invite thoughts regarding the future of the lute and
   the lute community. As I muse, it seems that this present lute revival
   started in 1960's - 70's largely out of the folk music revival and
   early music revival. I notice that many of our fellow lute enthusiasts
   are growing older (as am I). And with the recent passing of Julian
   Bream, I thought it prescient to reflect:
   What will the next 10, 20, or 50 years look like for the lute and lute
   community?
   Is interest in the lute on the decline, ascendency, or moving in some
   other direction?
   Is this trajectory different in different countries?
   The internet has revolutionized access to manuscripts, publishers, and
   recordings. Will the internet ultimately drive interest to diversions
   other than the lute?
   And when will Hollywood finally make a sizzling historical romance
   about a lute player and bring the lute back to be a symbol of
   seduction, as it should be? (Hopefully the movie won't be about Mark
   Smeaton.)
   Thoughts?
   theodore jordan

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[LUTE] Re: Renaissance Music in Rock

[theoj89294]

   Isn't that 'Regressive' Rock?
   -Original Message-
   From: Tristan von Neumann 
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
   Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2020 6:37 am
   Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance Music in Rock
   Dear Fans of Progressive Rock:
   I just accidentally found this album
   [1]https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mIN9f8var-UpR6ypOYeP8l
   oZqEYaX0198
   I guess some people might enjoy it.
   Fans of 70s prog rock band "Gryphon" certainly will.
   To get on or off this list see list information at
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References

   1. 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mIN9f8var-UpR6ypOYeP8loZqEYaX0198
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Weird instrument depiction in painting

[theoj89294]

   Tristan:
   This is a beautiful depiction of a brass strung Irish or Scottish harp
   - or  'Clarsach'. The picture clearly shows the bowing of the
   forepillar under the tremendous tension of the brass strings. These
   clarsachs were traditionally played with long fingernails  with a
   complex technique and the tradition died out by the early 1800's. There
   are only a few surviving clarsachs that approach this size. Most of
   them self-destructed and/or were burned for warmth in those cold and
   wet lands.  The website
   www.wirestrungharp.com
   has a great deal of information about these harps. Their history is
   fascinating, and this painting is one of the best contemporary
   depictions of one. How and why one of these ended up in Christian IV's
   court is curious. I would love to hear what that ensemble sounded like.
   Cheers,
   ted Jordan
   Ohio, US
   -Original Message-
   From: Tristan von Neumann 
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
   Sent: Mon, Jul 20, 2020 2:01 pm
   Subject: [LUTE] Weird instrument depiction in painting
   I just stumbled upon this painting by Reinhold Timm.
   It supposedly shows the musicians of Christian IV.
   What's the instrument on the left?
   It looks like a Harp seen from a very weird angle...
   The painting is very interesting in general, it looks almost like some
   1920s Neorealism.
   [1]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Christian_IV%27s
   _musicians_by_Reinhold_Timm.jpg
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References

   1. 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Christian_IV%27s_musicians_by_Reinhold_Timm.jpg
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] String conversion math question

[theoj89294]

   Dear wise luters:
   When converting strings from nylon to gut to a synthetic gut, are there
   simple multiplication factors that one can use to determine the
   diameter of a replacement string? For example, if I have a 1mm nylon
   string, and I want to replace it with a gut or synthetic gut, can one
   simply multiply the diameter by a factor -  based on the densities of
   the material - to find the diameter of the replacement string (pitch,
   string length, and room temperature being same)?
   Sorry for the complicated question; I assume the answer will more
   simple.
   Also, are 'Nylgut' and 'Alliance' strings material the same density?
   And lastly, Any recommendations for user friendly online string
   calculators?
   Apologies that the questions may have been previously addressed in this
   group-
   Thanks,
   ted jordan

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[LUTE] Re: Double Top

[theoj89294]

   My concern with a double top is longevity: How will that top hold up
   50, 100, 150 years from now? Any structure built up from layers glued
   together, and subject to vibration, will presumably come apart,
   eventually. What will look like in a double top? Loose Braces, detached
   bridges are usually relatively easy to repair on a solid top guitar,
   but will structural failure on a double top destroy the instrument? How
   do these epoxies hold up over time? Do they become more brittle? Maybe
   I've had too many instruments in need of significant repair, but I am
   concerned about how these double tops will fare with decades of use.

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[LUTE] Capirola & buzzing like bray pins?

[theoj89294]

   In reading about the use of bray pins on medieval and renaissance
   harps, I read the following:
   "The beautifully decorated
   Capirola lute book, written in
   Venice 1515-1520, states that
   a player should 'make it so
   that the first fret almost
   touches the strings, and so on
   to the end, because as the
   frets are nearer to the string,
   the strings sound like a harp,
   and the lute appears better.' In
   other words, lute strings
   should buzz against the frets."
   Does the Capirola book actually say this? And if so, might this be a
   recommendation for buzzing lute strings? Before amplification, brays on
   harps and snares on drums and such obviously were used to make the
   instrument 'cut through' ambient noise in order to be heard. Any
   evidence that lutes were used this way? Thoughts?
   Cheers, trj

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[LUTE] Re: Arcadelt

[theoj89294]

   Sean:
   Thanks for the suggestion, and I really should try my hand at in
   tabulating some simple 3 or 4 voice works. But when I have tried
   arranging even just 3 voices on lute, it feels rather like trying to
   sleep 3 adults in a child's bed; I've never gotten comfortable with the
   results-
   Cheers,
   ted jordan
   -Original Message-
   From: Sean Smith 
   To: lute 
   Sent: Wed, Nov 6, 2019 1:49 pm
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Arcadelt
 Theoj89294,
 Jacob Arcadelt is wonderful composer to try your hand at transcribing
 vocal works if you don't see them elsewhere. The thinner textured
 French pieces are easier to work with and were even considered
 acceptable on the 4-course guitar. With one of the 4-c intabs of this
 piece and the vocal original you fill it out more thoroughly on the
 lute since there were inevitably some corners cut. Let Adrian, Albert
 and Melchior do the harder 4-part material of Crequillon, Sandrin and
 Rogier but there's a lot to learn from Arcadelt precisely because
   it's
 easier to work with.
 If it gets too easy why not try filling it out with passaggi, writing
   a
 second part, or even singing the vocal line? (some other things
 musicians did beside play a composer's notes on the page). The 5th of
 the Adrian LeRoy 4-course guitar books has a lot of Arcadelt set for
 voice and guitar but they are easily transcribed for lute. See also
 Arcadelt's O felici occhi miei in Ortiz 1553 for ideas on decorating
   a
 Cantus or adding a new line altogether.
 Personally, I find his French pieces a relief after his more
   difficult
 Italian vocal works. His Italian madrigals can be a handful (See
 Vindella's 1546 work dedicated to JA) but he had a solid lute
   following
 in any event and pieces like Cosi mi guida were very popular. All I'm
 trying to say is that Arcadelt is a good vocal composer to work with
 for 16th century lutenists, then and now.
 my 2c, Sean
 On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 6:54 AM Rainer <[1]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
 wrote:
   Should be "nous voyons que les hommes".
   According to Brown there are two intabulations for guitar - a bit
   thin for the lute.
   Rainer
   Am 05.11.2019 um 23:42 schrieb
   [2]theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu:
   >  Lutetopia:
   >  Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the
   Arcadelt
   chanson
   >  "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little
   tune). Thanks
   >  trj
   >
   >  --
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >
 --
   References
 1. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
 2. mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

[LUTE] Arcadelt

[theoj89294]

   Lutetopia:
   Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt chanson
   "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little tune). Thanks
   trj

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[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs

[theoj89294]

   Tristan:
   interesting observation. I think that 'renaissance fairs' in the US,
   from my experience, are most commonly full of an anachronistic mix of
   European medieval AND renaissance stuff, and Viking, and fantasy.
   Oddly, None of the fairs that I have attended (I haven't been to many),
   have any significant presence of religious themes, icons, ceremonies,
   etc., even though religion heavily dominated the lives of both
   commoners and nobility at those times.
   In the US, early American historical events (fairs, historical places
   like Williamsburg, VA, and reenactments) get extremely historically
   correct, often mandating historically correct costumes, food, lodging,
   weapons, tools, etc. US Civil war (1861-65) reenactments continue to be
   most popular around the eastern US and are extremely focused on
   authenticity (even to the point of wearing historically accurate
   underclothes!).
   I would guess that there might be fairs, or events in Europe that
   insist on such historical accuracy, but maybe not for renaissance era?
   Or is that just for Germany? Thanks for bringing up this interesting
   topic to explore our regional differences! trj
   -Original Message-
   From: Tristan von Neumann 
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
   Sent: Thu, Sep 26, 2019 9:40 am
   Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
   So here's something different for a change.
   Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly
   the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some
   fantasy
   elements), while in Germany we only have "Mittelaltermärkte" (Medieval
   Fairs).
   What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are
   quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is
   the music.
   Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages,
   many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with
   Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping.
   I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter
   von
   der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von Wolkenstein.
   Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even
   simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987.
   If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in
   pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally inappropriate
   instruments.
   While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I would be
   totally anachronistic, and I do not want to join the "Medieval"
   musicians presenting 16th century music like Susato or even Praetorius
   as "medieval".
   These events have musically corrupted the ear of the common audience.
   Whenever someone hears 16th century lute music they consider it
   "medieval"...
   Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at
   Renaissance
   Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing appropriate songs and
   dances.
   Here's a great example (if the lute player is here: good job you two)
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RptxRpTiHo
   Also madrigal singers:
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYc7AqSTZXY
   Anachronisms are sometimes good fun, as the madrigal version of Katy
   Perry shows, but it seems madrigal singers really enjoy the original
   material like Dowland songs or Italian vocal music.
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIsHkuVTzDE
   Of course there are some of those folk singers too, but the style is
   more appropriate for the age represented.
   So here's the survey - how many of you have at least performed once at
   a
   Renaissance Fair in the US (or other countries) - or in case of
   Germany,
   at a "Mittelaltermarkt"? (are there attempts to establish a Renaissance
   fair beside the Medieval ones?)
   How is the response to actual lute music?
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[LUTE] Re: Wishful thinking on lute temparaments was Re: Lute Temperaments

[theoj89294]

   Didn't a musician (lute player?) try to bite the thumb off another
   musician? I can't remember the details-
   I bet the disagreement was over tempered tuning.
   They didn't have the internet back then.

   --


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[LUTE] Re: All music (was Siena Manuscript No. 17 - Ricercar)

[theoj89294]

   Given the book "The Song Machine: Inside the Hit Factory", by John
   Seabrook, I would posit that the father has a much higher probability
   of being more accurate, in that 'all pop music sounds the same', or
   certainly -much- pop music sounds the same, no?
   -Original Message-
   From: howard posner 
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
   Sent: Mon, Jul 15, 2019 10:38 am
   Subject: [LUTE] All music (was Siena Manuscript No. 17 - Ricercar)
   On 13.07.19 19:30, John Mardinly wrote:
   >  My teenage daughter says all classical music sounds the same. I tell
   >  her all pop music sounds the same. Who is right?
   Ooh, easy one:
   You're both wrong.  You're both making sweeping categorical statements
   based on insufficient information.  You, Ph.D., in particular, should
   know better than to characterize "all pop music" without first
   listening to all pop music.
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[LUTE] Re: De Visee

[theoj89294]

   Didn't Baron (In 'Study of the Lute' 1727) complain about the French
   who 'scratched' at their lutes. Does this imply that they played with
   nails? (I no longer have my copy of the Baron book, so I can't find the
   original quote, and I well could be mistaken). trj --


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[LUTE] Re: German Lute-guitars

[theoj89294]

   Big thanks to everyone who replied about the German wandervogel
   instruments - I have already learned a lot by following the links and
   searches. What an interesting period of history, and fascinating
   cultural movement. Being quite interested in WWI, I am even more
   fascinated by this wandervogel movement and its music and its place in
   history. Cheers, ted jordan-
   -Original Message-
   From: David Morales 
   To: theoj89294 
   Cc: List LUTELIST 
   Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2018 4:45 pm
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] German Lute-guitars
   Hello,
   I asked for information about those instruments five years ago and
   finally compiled these links:
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/wandervogel/ (great ¡)
   [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lute_guitar
   [3]http://www.logophile.org/Music/LuteGuitar
   [4]http://es.scribd.com/doc/31168462/Alte-und-Neue-Lieder-
   German-songs-for-laute-and-voice (German songs for "laute" and voice)
   I hope that helps :)
   BTW, I am the proud owner of one of them, you can check out the
   instrument in action in [5]this homemade video.
   Regards.
   2018-09-05 20:02 GMT+02:00
   <[6]theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu>:

Hello:
Does anyone know of a source of information about the turn of the
 20th
century German lute-guitars ( or guitar-lutes?)? I am interested
 in
their apparent popularity: how they were used, and were they a
 serious
instrument? or romantic gimmick?
I recently bought one that is a bit more 'lute-like' than the
 average
lute-guitar, with a full carved rosette, friction pegs instead of
tuning gears, and a rather large maple bowl. Unfortunately I
 cannot see
a label.
--
 To get on or off this list see list information at
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   --
   Cuerdas Pulsadas
   [8]www.cuerdaspulsadas.com || [9]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com
   [10]BLOG || [11]AGENDA || [12]TIMELINE

   [13]blog [14]facebook [15]twitter [16]instagram

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/wandervogel/
   2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lute_guitar
   3. http://www.logophile.org/Music/LuteGuitar
   4. 
http://es.scribd.com/doc/31168462/Alte-und-Neue-Lieder-German-songs-for-laute-and-voice
   5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOc4XDbbIHM
   6. mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   8. http://www.cuerdaspulsadas.com/
   9. mailto:h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com
  10. http://www.cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog
  11. http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/agenda/
  12. http://www.cuerdaspulsadas.com/timeline
  13. http://.cuerdaspulsadas.com/blog
  14. http://www.facebook.com/cuerdaspulsadas
  15. http://www.twitter.com/cuerdaspulsadas
  16. http://www.instagram.com/cuerdaspulsadas

[LUTE] German Lute-guitars

[theoj89294]

   Hello:

   Does anyone know of a source of information about the turn of the 20th
   century German lute-guitars ( or guitar-lutes?)? I am interested in
   their apparent popularity: how they were used, and were they a serious
   instrument? or romantic gimmick?

   I recently bought one that is a bit more 'lute-like' than the average
   lute-guitar, with a full carved rosette, friction pegs instead of
   tuning gears, and a rather large maple bowl. Unfortunately I cannot see
   a label.

   --


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[LUTE] Luttes of Cullane and Venice?

[theoj89294]

   All:

   The Scottish Customs Tariffs of Oct 31, 1612 lists

   "Luttes of Cullane with case" and

   "Luttes of Venice with case".

   Does anyone know what these terms Cullane and Venice mean?

   There is also some information about strings: "catlingis" and
   "manikins", and misc other musical instrument details. This document is
   discussed in a very interesting wire-strung harp web page:

   http://www.wirestrungharp.com/material/strings_and_things.html

   Thanks- t jordan

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[LUTE] BMV 846

[theoj89294]

   Dear lutists:

   Does anyone know if there is a baroque lute in tabulation of JS Bach's
   Prelude in C major BMV 846, from the Well Tempered Clavier?

   Thanks- theo jordan

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[LUTE] Re: Hole in the Wall

[theoj89294]

   Many Thanks Arto! Your generosity in sharing has always been sincerely
   appreciated.

   Having finally done my research, I see that it was composed by Purcell
   in 1695, and then published by Playford in 1698.

   Thanks again!

   Theo Jordan

   Ohio, US

   (I use the theo89294 to hide my true identity because, as you all know,
   once it becomes known that you are a lute player, such throngs of
   groupies assail you that you must go into hiding)
   -Original Message-
   From: Arto Wikla <wi...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   To: lutelist Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Mon, Feb 19, 2018 1:19 am
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Hole in the Wall
   Oops! I have already made the intabulation! Just called it "Purcell:
   Hornpipe".
   Here is the tab:
   [1]https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/Arciliuto/PurcellHornpipe2006
   17.JPG
   And here is my YouTube example of that:
   [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7hRdN00B3w=youtu.be
   Arto
   On 19/02/18 08:06, howard posner wrote:
   >> On Feb 18, 2018, at 1:57 PM, Arto Wikla <[3]wi...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   wrote:
   >>
   >> Dear theoj89294(?)
   >>
   >> Making an intabualation of that nice piece is not very complicated.
   If you wish, I can quite easily make one for you in the near future.
   ... In case you just start signing your messages... ;-)
   >>
   >> Arto
   >
   > Arto, I'm afraid you've gravely insulted the 89294 family. Ever since
   Roger 89294 of Delaware signed the Declaration of Independence, the
   89294 family name has been much honored in America, along with the
   Vanderbilts, Adamses, and, of course, Trumps.
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >

   --

References

   1. https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/Arciliuto/PurcellHornpipe200617.JPG
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7hRdN00B3w=youtu.be
   3. mailto:wi...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Hole in the Wall

[theoj89294]

   Dear Lute community:

   Are there any intabulations of the English tune 'Hole in the Wall'
   (Playford?) for r or b lute? Many thanks, I've always liked that
   melody. trj

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[LUTE] Re: Early Music life

[theoj89294]

   Having friends in psychology, economics, and marketing/advertising, we
   have had this discussion over beer. And the general conclusion was that
   most artists (including early music artists) ought not be lamenting
   about why people don't show up to appreciate their art, but rather they
   should be discussing how best to draw in an audience. Think about it,
   if a graphic artist wants to put on an exhibit, they will bringing
   alcohol, maybe food, hire a musician, and create an inviting atmosphere
   for socializing. Moreover, symphony orchestras also have this problem
   and their partial (yet successful) solution are the multimedia
   programs; live performance of film music over film clips of Harry
   Potter, Star Wars, etc.

   The fact (sad or not) is that audiences have MANY distractions pulling
   their attention nowadays. Music alone, no matter how pure or
   inspirational, won't draw an audience as much as music PLUS something
   else - drama or a story, visuals, alcohol, dance, etc. I think it would
   behoove early music artists to start thinking about this and
   corroborating and creating more engaging programs. And there are
   successful examples of this out there, but there needs to be more.

   One more thing, I am also reminded of a program done years ago by
   Steven Wade (?) called 'Banjo Dancing' (?). He performed as one man
   with a banjo. He played, told stories, sang, and had a truly engaging
   performance. And it drew audiences. There is absolutely no reason why
   something similar couldn't be done by a lutenist given some talent and
   hard work in creating such a stage performance. And as a disclaimer, I
   am not a professional musician, so these are merely my opinions,
   looking in from the outside.

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[LUTE] Re: Fronimo question

[theoj89294]

   I run several several Windows-native programs on my mac seamlessly via
   'VMWare'. Though I've run Fronimo only a wee bit, I had no problem
   running it VMWare - highly recommended. trj
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[LUTE] Re: Wolf Hall

[theoj89294]

   "A Little Chaos" (court of France's Louis' XIV, directed by the late
   Alan Rickman, 2014) would have been SOOO amazing had they invested in a
   real french style baroque lute player. Instead, the 'lute' music cameo
   ruined the film pour moi.
   --


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[LUTE] Wickhambrook

[theoj89294]

   All: Is the Yale, 'Wickhambrook' Lute Manuscript available online? I
   haven't been able to find it-

   Cheers,  trj

   --


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[LUTE] Barbetta 1586 Italian lute book online

[theoj89294]

   Giulio Cesare Barbetta's 1585 lute book (italian tab) is online through
   the US Library of Congress:
   https://www.loc.gov/item/2014572374/
   This may be old news, but I just found it. Cheers, trj

   --


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[LUTE] Giles Lodges lute book

[theoj89294]

   All:

   Has the Giles Lodges Lute Book (Folger Shakespeare Library, Wash DC)
   been reprinted or otherwise available? Thanks trj

   --


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[LUTE] Arabella Hunt 1662-1705

[theoj89294]

   I have recently become fascinated by the life of singer/lutenist
   Arabella Hunt, 1662-1705. Partially because she was reportedly quite
   talented and had 'difficult music' written for her by John Blow and
   Henry Purcell. And partly because, at 18 yrs old, she married a married
   a man - whom she then realized was actually a woman in disguise She
   successfully had her wedding annulled on those grounds, then spent the
   rest of her life single ('fool me once,').

   Dose anyone know of the music written for her? From the engraving of
   her, it appears she played an 11c lute.  trj

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabella_Hunt

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Violin and lute.

[Theoj89294]

Variations on Greensleeves, and the 'Jews Dance' come to mind. Both available 
through Tree, I believe and both quite fun to play. 


> On Oct 12, 2015, at 22:46, Herbert Ward  wrote:
> 
> I have a chance to play music with a modern violinist.
> He's probably quite adept since he played with the
> symphony of a large city.  What music would be appropriate
> for "introducing" him to the Renaissance repertoire?
> I don't remembering seeing any historical duets for lute
> and bowed instrument.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Soap Talc, quick question

[theoj89294]

   I learned many years ago about soap and chalk for pegs (I would think
   chalk would have more 'bite' than talk) - and i keep a small remnant of
   a piece of chalkboard chalk, and a small remnant of a bar of soap
   conveniently hidden in a corner of all my lute cases (with a small
   remnant of a pencil to apply graphite to the nut grooves if needed).
   trj

   -Original Message-
   From: Daniel F. Heiman heiman.dan...@juno.com
   To: 'David van Ooijen' davidvanooi...@gmail.com; 'lutelist Net'
   Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; akbutler akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
   Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2015 9:31 am
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Soap  Talc, quick question
There are various commercially-available remedies as
well:
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuning_peg#Peg_dope

Whatever you use,
apply it sparingly, and realize that you may have to
remove some or all of it
if the application does not improve the situation.

Daniel

-Original
Message-
From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[3]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
On Behalf
Of David van Ooijen
Sent: 13 August, 2015 06:02
To: lutelist
Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Soap  Talc, quick question

   Love that typo.
;-)

   David
   On Thursday, August 13, 2015, David van Ooijen

[1][4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote:

I use talk only. Baby powder.

David
On Thursday, August 13, 2015, andy butler

[1][2][5]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
wrote:
  I'm about to change
strings on my lute, and I understand that
  applying
  a
soap/talc mix to the pegs will help with tuning.
  So, is that a 50/50
mix?
  Should I add any water?
  any tips gratefully
received
  kind regards
  andy
  To get on or off
this list see list information at

[2][3][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--

***
David van Ooijen

[3][4][7]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
[4][5][8]www.davidvanooijen.nl

***
--
 References
1.
[9]mailto:[6]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
2.
[7][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
3.
[11]mailto:[8]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
4.
[9][12]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/

   --


***
   David van Ooijen

[10][13]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [11][14]www.davidvanooijen.nl

***

   --

References

   1.
[15]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. javascript:;
   3.
[16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. javascript:;

5. [17]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   6. javascript:;
   7.
[18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   8. javascript:;

9. [19]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  10. [20]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  11.
[21]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/




   --

References

   1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuning_peg#Peg_dope
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu?
   4. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   5. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   7. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   8. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   9. mailto:[6]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk?
  10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  11. mailto:[8]davidvanooi...@gmail.com?
  12. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  13. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  14. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  15. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com?
  16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  17. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  19. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  20. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com?
  21. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/


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[LUTE] Re: Spain vs. Italy

[theoj89294]

   Wow, the (Spanish) Inquisition was rather mild ? I was under the
   impression that it was rather brutal. Emperor Rudolf II spent his
   childhood with relatives in Spain and was so abhorred by the torutre
   and murder of non Christians that, when he was Emperor he assured
   religious tolerance in his realm. Are you sure you are not referring to
   the Monty Python version of the Spanish Inquisition (Ge the comfy
   chair!). trj

   -Original Message-
   From: r.turovsky r.turov...@gmail.com
   To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wed, May 6, 2015 5:07 pm
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Spain vs. Italy
Mark,
   there are a lot of misconceptions about inquisition, it was rather
mild
   by our 20th century standards, and most suspects were let off the
hook.
   And no one was really eliminated in Spain: 1 in 5 male Spaniards are

genetically patrilineally Jewish now, and 1 in 10 are Moors. University
   of
Leeds did a large scale DNA study a few years ago.
   RT
  On 5/6/2015
8:51 AM, Mark Seifert wrote:

   Regarding the Spain versus rest-of-Europe
issue ( a most fascinating
   topic--thanks for introducing it, Robert Barto ),
English Prof Brittany
   Hughes said that one reason the Spanish kings/queens
so brutally
   expelled or forced conversion on the Moors (1523 was an
important
   date of escalation, and then the worst of the Inquisition was
imposed
   in 1609) was that the Turks liked to raid the coast of Spain from
their
   ships, escalating anti-Muslim hatred throughout this period.  She

didn't mention why the Jews were so oppressed, as they seem like
   innocent
bystanders.  I wonder if they also tried to eliminate the
   lute, because it
was seen as a Moorish instrument, or the lute belly
   reminded them of
something really evil, like the belly of a pregnant
   woman, heaven forbid.

In defense of Spain, Dr. Teofilo Ruiz of UCLA in his Terror of
   History
course said that the Spanish ended their witch hunting decades
   before
England and Germany (and America).  Maybe the adverse effects of
   eliminating
Jews and Muslims helped them realize that getting rid of
   all their witches
wouldn't improve anything.
   I had a really spooky/scary experience in 1973
after I got a minimum
   wage job vacuuming dust off the books in the dark
stacks of Widener
   Library (built after the Titanic went down in honor of a
son of a
   Boston Brahmin family).  Was sitting on the cold concrete floor
dusting
   a row of books when I encountered a black leather clad tome whose

binding showed one word, my last name spelled correctly, and the date
   1728
in silver Gothic letters.  Shocked and amazed, I pulled it out,
   opened it
and discovered it was a baroque legal textbook discussing in
   incredible
detail some issues regarding die Hexen.  Though I was
   studying German at the
time, I couldn't quite figure out if it covered
   how to identify/prosecute or
how to defend/absolve the witches!  There
   were  columns and tables of
criteria, and even some numbers.  I suspect
   the botched Salem trials and
executions before the turn of the century
   caused Germans concern so they
wanted to do a better legal job than the
   crazed Massachusetts clerics.  Talk
about having a skeleton in one's
   family's ancestral closet.  I tried later
to access that volume on
   line, but the book appears to be gone.  Since
classes had ended, I
   didn't take the book to my German teacher Herr Reller,
but I also
   feared what the book might contain.  I believe by 1728 the
Spanish had
   gotten over any obsession about Hexen, but not yet England and
Germany.
   Mark Seifert
   On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 4:07 AM, Mathias
Roesel
   [1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote:
   Read Hillary Mantel on
that topic, you'll get another view.
   Mathias
-Original
Message-
From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu

[mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
Chris Barker
   
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 6:11 PM
To: 'Monica Hall'; 'Edward Chrysogonus
Yong'
Cc: 'Lutelist'
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Spain vs. Italy
   
   
I agree on Thomas Cromwell as well!  Had Henry VIII not been king at
   that
time I'd
call him a thug too!
   
Chris
   
-Original
Message-
From: [4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu

[mailto:[5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
Monica Hall
Sent:
Tuesday, May 05, 2015 9:19 AM
To: Edward Chrysogonus Yong
Cc:
Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Spain vs. Italy
   
Yes - Simon
Schama has likened Cromwell and his supporters to the
   Taliban in
   
Afghanistan.
They were certainly responsible for destroying some of our
cultural
   heritage.
And Thomas Cromwell a century earlier was just an
avaricious thug.
Monica
   
   
- Original Message -

 From: Edward Chrysogonus Yong [6]edward.y...@gmail.com
To: Mark
Wheeler [7]l...@pantagruel.de
Cc: Monica Hall
[8]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk; ml
   [9]man...@manololaguillo.com;
   
Lutelist 

[LUTE] Vienna instruments closing?

[theoj89294]

   A recent email from the Lute Society ominously listed the following new
   item (below)

   However - the online petition has been closed.

   Does anyone have current details on this plan; when the musical
   instrument gallery is slated to close, and whom to write to to protest?
   What an insane idea! And a sad cultural loss to the city of Vienna (and
   the world) if this magnificent exhibition closes!

   PETITION AGAINST THE CLOSURE OF THE VIENNA MUSICAL INSTRUMENT
   COLLECTION GALLERIES



   It seems that there is a chance that the Vienna collection of musical
   instruments will be
   put into storage and the present rooms allotted to some Austrian
   government
   department - all the more idiotic as there are sufficient unused rooms
   the
   same building. We've seen this sort of thing happen at the V  A, and
   what
   a loss that is. In the case of Vienna, this would mean that the most
   important collection of lutes in the world would be closed, and that
   would
   be catastrophic.



   I have been asked to circulate following link to an online petition a
   please sign and copy it to friends:

   [1]https://www.change.org/p/bundespr%C3%A4sident-der-republik-%C3%B6ste
   rreich-dr-heinz-fischer-in-der-wiener-hofburg-droht-der-sammlung-alter-
   musikinstrumente-das-aus-stimmen-sie-f%C3%BCr-den-erhalt-dieser-interna
   tional-renommierten-ausstellung

   --

References

   1. 
https://www.change.org/p/bundespr%C3%A4sident-der-republik-%C3%B6sterreich-dr-heinz-fischer-in-der-wiener-hofburg-droht-der-sammlung-alter-musikinstrumente-das-aus-stimmen-sie-f%C3%BCr-den-erhalt-dieser-international-renommierten-ausstellung


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[LUTE] Lutheran Hymns 4 lute?

[theoj89294]

   Dear all:

   I am looking for source(s) for in tabulations of Lutheran Hymns
   for renaissance (or baroque) lute - preferably french tab. Looking for
   either solo lute in tabulations or lute and voice; pieces suitable for
   a Lutheran service (that I've been asked to play in Autumn). Martin
   Luther was apparently a luter, so I would guess that there are sources,
   but I am otherwise totally ignorant of this literature.

   Also, I seem to remember seeing a short article within the past few
   years in the Lute Society Journal (?) or LSA newsletter (??) regarding
   a film being made about Martin Luther's life (the article discussed a
   lute made for the movie), can anyone steer me to the source of this.
   Many many thanks-

   --


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[LUTE] Re: how to amplify lute?

[theoj89294]

A lot of popular performers (e.g. Billy Joel, Elton John, etc) amplify their 
Grand Pianos, and many use a Barcus Berry 'triplanar' contact pickup

http://barcusberry.com/product.cfm?ProductID=11
 - which is actually amazing and sounds fantastic - too bad its too big for 
guitars/lutes.

Having repeatedly injured my dignity playing with amplification in noisy 
environments  (in my early days), I would agree that a contact transducer - 
like the Fishman - is the best way to go; one doesn't have to worry about 
feedback or ambient noise. Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to get a 
natural sound out of them. Easy to apply, instead of a clip, one sticks them on 
with a sticky putty. The only concern is leaving an oily putty residue on the 
soundboard of your lute (especially if it is waxed and unvarnished). Try 
different locations on the soundboard to find the best tone through that 
particular amp. Cheers, trj


-Original Message-
From: Arto Wikla wi...@cs.dartmouth.edu
To: Tobiah t...@tobiah.org; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tue, Jan 27, 2015 5:00 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: how to amplify lute?


On 27/01/15 23:53, Tobiah wrote:
 On 01/27/2015 01:49 PM, Arto Wikla wrote:
 Hi all

 Just an innocent(?) question: If you need amplification, why to use
 the lute? Electric guitars are made for that purpose, loud music.
 ;-)

 Oh right, and we can just use a Rhodes electric piano instead of those
 bulky awkward concert grands!


Do they use amplification on Steinways? Guess not!

Arto



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[LUTE] Re: Savarez KF strings etc.

[theoj89294]

I recently heard a rather experienced harp maker/designer talk about using 
Savarez KF strings on his harps. Initially, when he strung a harp designed for 
nylon or gut, the tone with KF strings was awful (using thinner diameters to 
account for the higher density). So he redesigned the harmonic curve several 
times until he could get a good tone using KF strings, and the result was a 
longer string length at a comparable tension.
Not sure how this applies to the lute, but maybe - because of their stiffness, 
KF strings work better at longer string lengths in general? trj


-Original Message-
From: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Ruben de Semprun rdesemp...@gmail.com; 
spiffys84121 spiffys84...@yahoo.com
Sent: Mon, Oct 20, 2014 8:44 am
Subject: [LUTE] Savarez KF strings etc.


Hi All,

I've had a few questions about the Savarez KF strings, so I thought I'd 
put my answers (such as they are) out here for everyone to see.

Savarez make strings from PVF which they call KF Alliance strings.  As 
far as I can tell these are the standard PVF monofilament made for 
fishing line.  They are perfectly transparent with a shiny surface, and 
about 10% more dense than gut.  The largest string of this type they 
supply is .91mm.

They also make KF strings in larger diameters, with what they describe 
as a composite construction.  The .95mm string is more opaque and less 
shiny than the Alliance strings, but still quite smooth on the 
surface.  The larger strings are more opaque and more textured.

The density of these strings is a matter of debate.  The Savarez website 
is vague, in one place implying that the density is similar to gut, but 
also suggesting that you might want to use thinner strings than you 
normally would with gut (these strings seem to be aimed at harpists 
looking for a gut substitute).  Many years ago I was told by a fellow 
lutemaker that the .95mm string was the equivalent of a 1.11mm gut 
string, implying that the density was about 17% greater than gut.  Arto 
Wikla told me that he had some strings measured on a chemical balance 
and this gave a result of about 38% more dense than gut, which seems 
implausibly high to me. What I don't understand is that if these strings 
are made from PVF, how can they be more dense than the PVF monofilament?

I have resorted to practical experiments, which have led me to prefer 
thinner rather than thicker strings, whatever the actual tension.  I had 
been using a .95 string as a 5th course on a 6c lute for many years, 
then more recently a 1.25mm string (theoretically the same tension) on 
the 6th course.  Then one day I ran out of 1.25 and tried 1.16 on the 
sixth course.  Once I got used to it it worked fine.  I now work with a 
rule of thumb which assumes that the KF strings are about 16% more dense 
than gut.  This may not be correct in terms of the actual density, but 
in practice it gives me good results.

The biggest strings are still very stiff.  It is essential to thin the 
last couple of inches of string to a much smaller diameter, preferably 
less than 1mm, so that the portion of string which goes through the 
bridge and back around itself at the front of the bridge is much more 
flexible.  The fact that the first few mm of string where it leaves the 
bridge is thinner (and possibly not even cylindrical) seems to have no 
effect.  This thinning of the string makes it easier to tie onto the 
bridge (and does not require enlarging the bridge hole), but improves 
the sound and also avoids the occasional problem of the string buzzing 
where it virbates against the top of the bridge.  I used abrasive paper 
to thin the string, but I'm open to alternative suggestions!

To answer the question about string sizes for the liuto attiorbato 
(64/93cm, tuned to g' at a'=392):

1st .40 gut (x2)
2nd .48 gut
3rd .60 gut
4th .73 gut
5th KF91
6th KF116 + .68 gut
7th KF121 + .76 gut
8th KF86 + .51 gut
9th KF95 + .56 gut
10th KF108 + .64 gut
11th KF121 + .71 gut
12th KF132 + .76 gut
13th KF145 + .84 gut
14th KF160 + .94 gut

I tried nylon for the double first course but it was very difficult to 
tune and just seemed too flexible.  The gut was stiffer and much easier 
to tune and play.

Last year I also strung an 11c lute in a similar way (69cm, a'=392):

1st .44 gut (single)
2nd .48 gut (single)
3rd  .60 gut
4th .74 gut
5th .82 gut
6th KF95 + .60 gut
7th KF105 + .64 gut
8th KF116 + .76 gut
9th KF125 + .80 gut
10th KF136 + .88 gut
11th KF150 + .97 gut

This worked very well, and it's such a treat to be able to use a decent 
thickness for a gut top string, and at a tension which means the string 
lasts quite well.  You can hear this lute on a short video by Peter 
Sinnaeve which I shared on my Facebook timeline.

Finally, I have been told that the French company Parallelium make 
fishing line called hyperflourocarbon 3FC which is made by a triple 
extrusion process which gives a more flexible string.  I can't work out 
from 

[LUTE] OT: Historic Rosin

[theoj89294]

While searching for medical remedies, I found that an Remedia Pharmacy 
(Eisenstadt Austria) also produces a historic Larch rosin for bowed gut strung 
instruments. The recipe is from Francesco Galeazzi's treatise 'Elementi teorico 
pratici di Musica' - 1796(?). It is perhaps something to share with histraic 
bowed string players.
http://www.remedia-homeopathy.com/en/homeopathy/Violin-rosin/p2144.html

--

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] 77cm?

[theoj89294]

All: I am considering a b-lute with a 77cm string length (Edlinger model). Two 
questions: Is this length playable for most baroque literature? Can it be tuned 
to minor (a=415) or will it have to be tuned lower? Thanks-trj
--

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[LUTE] Re: Ornamental Lutes

[theoj89294]

In the mid '80s, I was hired to play renaissance lute at some company's holiday 
party, and I was instructed to show up in costume (I had recently done a 
Twelfth Night in costume - and yes, there were tights). I arrived at the 
address and entered a large crowded party room with a disc jockey, sound system 
above 100 decibels pounding away the cheesiest disco, black lights, mirror 
ball; the works. I found the organizer and told her that there must have been 
some misunderstanding. She told the, no - she wanted me to dance around the 
dance floor with my lute and pretend like I was playing (my mind was quickly 
filled with images of a drunken reveler smashing into my lute and scattering 
splinters of wood across the parquet dance floor). Instead, I quietly packed up 
and left through the backdoor. Unexpectedly and to my pleasant surprise, I 
received my check for the entire agreed amount a week later. trj



-Original Message-
From: Edward Chrysogonus Yong edward.y...@gmail.com
To: Lute List List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sun, Mar 16, 2014 7:54 am
Subject: [LUTE] Ornamental Lutes


dear collective wisdom,

so i was asked to play continuo for a Händel Concerto Grosso and spent some 
time 
working it out. at the first rehearsal i discover that the continuo line is 
also 
being played by 3 violoncelli, an electronic harpsichord, and a double bass all 
'playing out'. 

all of these are modern instruments, played aggressively by players more 
accustomed to symphonic music. full chords on my large archlute and twiddling 
nonstop means i am audible to the celli and to the conductor. the tutti violins 
on the other side of the semicircle have said they can't really hear me, so i 
wonder if i'd even be heard by the audience.

i'm sure other lute players have done gigs like this, so what does one do in 
situations where one's lute seems largely ornamental? do i just make sure i 
look 
pretty?

Edward



τούτο ηλεκτρονικόν ταχυδρομείον εκ είΦωνου
 εμεύ επέμφθη.
Hæ litteræ electronicæ ab iPhono missæ sunt.
此電子郵件發送于自吾iPhone。
This e-mail was sent from my iPhone.



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[LUTE] Re: 6c lute barring?

[theoj89294]

Bill:
Check out the small lutes drawn by the Grassi Museum fur Musikinstrumente, 
Leipzig. These are actual lutes made for an display of angels in the Freiberger 
church in 1594. Even though they are small, they are real instruments. There 
are four lutes, I think each is six-course. The shop website shows a small 
image of the drawings, enough to see the barring used. I hope this helps. trj
http://mfm.uni-leipzig.de/dt/shop/index.php?categories[]=255369255369

http://mfm.uni-leipzig.de/dt/shop/produkte/Z25_FR02.php


-Original Message-
From: willsamson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
To: lute-builder@cs dartmouth. edu lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wed, Mar 5, 2014 2:05 pm
Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] 6c lute barring?




   Hi,

   I am about to bar the soundboard of a new 6c lute.

   I am interested to hear how makers think it should be done. One maker
   told me he uses the same barring as a conventional 7c or 8c lute, but a
   bit lighter. Another said fewer bars -only two transverse bars on the
   bridge side of the rose, rather than the more usual three.

   I realise it is hard to be certain, but I would like to know what the
   collective wisdom thinks.

   Waiting with bated breath!

   Bill Samson

   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

   --

References

   1. https://uk.overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android


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[LUTE] tune from Ballet

[theoj89294]

Might anyone have the tab for a tune in William Ballet's lute book, Callino 
casturame? Apparently this is the earliest irish melody found in tab and is a 
phonetic approximation of Cailín ó chois tSiúire mé or I am a girl from 
Suirside. William Ballet's Lute book is currently on display at Trinity 
College Library, Dublin:  
http://www.tcd.ie/Library/about/exhibitions/in-tune/exhibition/early_music_treasures.html

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[LUTE] Manuscript ID confusion

[theoj89294]

I am not a musicologist, so please forgive my ignorance. But I am confused, 
sometimes manuscripts are identified by notations such as, e.g. RM 4137 olim 
Mf 2004 and sometimes as, e.g. A-Wn MusHS 17706 - which makes a lot more 
sense to me, because I realize this gives the country, and library location. 
Are the two methods of identifying manuscripts mutually exclusive? Or does each 
manuscript have an identifier of each type? If there a source to translate one 
ID to the other? Thanks for any explanation-







 

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[LUTE] Phalese stopping strings?

[theoj89294]

I was looking through Pierre Phalese, Hortus Musarum, 1552
(available online - search Phalese Hortus IMSLP )
Phalese puts an asterix (*) on the staff often sometimes multiple ones, and in 
very specific placement, and I realized these must be markings to 'stop' a 
string from sounding? I am very curious about this. Are there other examples of 
notations used in lute tab to stop strings? Does this suggest the sustain of 
lute strings back then might have been more robust than we may think? trj


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[LUTE] Re: Phalese stopping strings?

[theoj89294]

 Thanks! - It makes more sense that these asterixes means to hold. I have to 
say, though, that stopping the notes at the asterix made some rather 
interesting sounds and certainly brought out various voices! I guess I spent 
too much time learning about wire strung clarsach technique where string 
stopping is a necessary art.
Cheers! trj

 

 

-Original Message-
From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
Cc: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Fri, Jan 3, 2014 1:08 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Phalese stopping strings?


   On the contrary, I understand these asterixes as reminders to sustain
   the notes, that is, to hold the fingers on the strings.
   David

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
   On 3 January 2014 18:50, [3]theoj89...@aol.com wrote:

 I was looking through Pierre Phalese, Hortus Musarum, 1552
 (available online - search Phalese Hortus IMSLP )
 Phalese puts an asterix (*) on the staff often sometimes multiple
 ones, and in very specific placement, and I realized these must be
 markings to 'stop' a string from sounding? I am very curious about
 this. Are there other examples of notations used in lute tab to stop
 strings? Does this suggest the sustain of lute strings back then
 might have been more robust than we may think? trj
 --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   3. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


 

--

[LUTE] Mille Regretz?

[theoj89294]

Does anyone have a source of a lute in tabulation of Mille Regretz by Josquin 
des Pres? Seems like I remember one, but cannot locate it. Cheers,
trj

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[LUTE] music slowing software?

[theoj89294]

When learning music by ear, it helps to be able to slow down fast passages to 
help discern the notes. Post vinyl LP, and Marantz 'Watergate cassette 
recorder, does anyone know of simple soft water that can do this? I am a mac 
user (but can run windows on VMWare if I have to). Thanks!
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[LUTE] Re: lute plans

[theoj89294]

Nigel:
There are the quirky Freiberger catherdral lutes: These small lutes that were 
part of a whole collection of instruments of an alter display from Frieberg 
Cathedral in Saxony. They were removed during a restoration and examined, and 
they are real instruments! The University in Leipzig made studies and sells 
drawings of these. There are four lutes - same maker (Georg Klemm), slightly 
different shapes, all having five courses of double strings (ten strings), and 
all with a string length of 45.9cm (overal length 56-58cm). The roses on these 
instruments are parchment, and I'm not sure how representative they are to the 
regional lutes of the period. The drawings can be obtained here (listed as 
lutes 2, 7, 12, and 28) 
http://mfm.uni-leipzig.de- link to their shop, or go to:

http://mfm.uni-leipzig.de/dt/shop/index.php?navid=1296813762483categoriescategories%5B%5D=255369255369pageId644d4e57=1


One of the interesting thing about these instruments is that the barring isn't 
the typical renaissance barring under the bridge, but suggestive of 'fan 
bracing'  more like the lutes of the baroque.
Add one more string to these lutes and one would have a useable small six 
course lute (not sure what pitch 46cm would provide). Cheers, trj.



-Original Message-
From: nigelsolomon nigelsolo...@btinternet.com
To: 'Lutelist' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sat, Oct 12, 2013 10:31 am
Subject: [LUTE] lute plans


Does anyone know where I might find plans to build an alto lute (in A, 
around 54 cm string length). Surfing the net there seem to be quite a 
few for 60 cm lutes but not for any small instruments. I don't think my 
skills would be up to scaling larger plans down. Any ideas?

Nigel



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[LUTE] Re: Time to work on how we look?

[theoj89294]

 Interestingly, from a neurophysiological standpoint, there are several 
primitive reflexes that affect both hand and mouth - working with learning 
disabled children one can clearly see how they grimace and contort their tongue 
when trying to accomplish fine motor coordination. Likewise, children often 
show improved speech when undergoing hand therapy. The same phenomena is 
probably seen in performers who grimace - not just musicians but athletes as 
well. e.g. Watch how basketball player Michael Jordan uses his face and tongue 
when making a basket. 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thu, Aug 22, 2013 5:35 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Time to work on how we look?



   Oddly enough, classical musicians seem to be better at this than early
   music people - who often appear in ill-assorted outfits, hippies that
   time forgot, or just plain scruffy.

   Look at orchestral conductors for example - Is there any highly
   regarded conductor who doesn't have floppy, bouncy hair?  It's one of
   the tools of the trade.  Likewise female 'cellists - The long, crinkly
   Pre-Raphaelite hair, preferably hanging over the face, is what the
   audience expects.

   Some early music outfits are, of course, appropriately stylish - but
   many don't quite cut the mustard even though their musical performance
   is impeccable.

   I remember, too, that classical guitarists always wore tails to perform
   - Segovia, Bream, Yepes - but then John Williams broke the mould with
   his fancy shirts and Chelsea boots, about 50 years ago.  Interesting at
   the time, but somehow took away from the sense of occasion.

   As for facial expressions - They're part of the story but by no means
   the whole thing.

   Musicians need to know their audience, respect them and entertain them.

   Bill

   --


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[LUTE] Re: now- How did Iadone play?

[theoj89294]

I love the rose - and I assume it is not a historical reproduction? and is it 
the same rose that is on the front of Nigel North's Baroque Lute (Bach, 
Vivaldi, Weiss) Honest - Linn Records - HON CD 5006?



-Original Message-
From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net; Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com
Cc: 'lute' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tue, Aug 13, 2013 5:26 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: now- How did Iadone play?


   In case anybody has never seen a Passauro lute, here's one that he
   built in 1967.  I've seen it and the craftsmanship is impeccable, but
   the appearance is quite odd to a modern lutenist's eye.

   [1]http://image-projects.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/10683/16909/1/0032282c-
   0001.jpg

   Bill
   From: Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net
   To: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com
   Cc: 'lute' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 16:35
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: now- How did Iadone play?
   Hi Ed-
   That's right- New York Pro Musica, Noah Greenberg. And those old heavy
   but cool Passauro (Sp?) lutes. Do you know if there are any vids of him
   playing? Or even still pictures somewhere? Even some ex- student's
   description would help. I have largely gone over to thumb-out myself-
   HIP thumb out as far as I can figure it out- too much Archlute,
   Baroque lute  late Renaissance lute to stay with thumb under
   exclusively; so I would like to know more about how Joe played, since
   his recorded sound impressed me so much all those years ago.
   Thanks!  - Dan
   On 8/13/2013 6:40 AM, Edward Mast wrote:
Hi Dan,
   
Joseph Iadone was my first exposure to the lute.  He headed an early
   music workshop that I attended for several years in Vermont (early
   70's).  Lucy Cross taught there also.  And Richard Taruskin, who led us
   through the early chapters of Hindemith's Elementary Training for
   Musicians.  I never heard any lute solos there, just amazing ensemble
   music, and lute songs, of course. (Russell Oberlin was there the first
   year I attended).  Joe was a truly unique player; no one played - or
   plays - like him.  I actually first heard about him through my brother,
   who was studying bass with him at the Hartt School of Music.  He did
   play with the New York Pro Musica, founded by Noah Greenberg.  I have
   some of their recordings with Joe, or Christopher Williams (one of his
   students) playing.  He also made some wonderful recordings with the
   Renaissance Quartet.  One of the recordings I have on CD is one he did
   largely himself at home, recording all the parts to duos, trios and
   quartets.
The story as I've heard it is that Hindemith asked Joe to play the
   lute in his collegium at Yale, so he had to teach himself how to play
   it.  I think some of the information about technique he got from the
   introduction to Varietie of Lute Lessons.  Thumb over (or out) but
   without nails and thumb-index for single lines.
   
Ned
   
   
   
   
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References

   1. 
http://image-projects.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/10683/16909/1/0032282c-0001.jpg
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


 

--

[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness

[theoj89294]

How does one get others interested in lute? Marketing.
All lute players should contribute to a hollywood lobbyist fund where a lute 
'product placement' could be made in the next historical film that utilizes 
swords and corsets. Better yet,let the hero seduce the heroine with a lute 
song, and re-establish the lute in popular culture as the seduction tool that 
it was meant to be.
 Look at what the movie Doctor Zhivago did for the  popularity of the 
Balalika (seriously).   Maybe a lute tax could be tacked on to every lute 
purchase and lute string purchase to pay for such a lobbyist. Marketing takes 
money. 


 

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[LUTE] Gemeentemuseum lutes?

[theoj89294]

I will be near den Haag, NL, in September. The Gemeentemuseum looks to have a 
good collection of lutes, but does anyone know if there are any on display? 
Would it be worth spending a day to visit the museum, if my main goal is to 
view the lute collection? Thanks-


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[LUTE] OT: blindfolded girl

[theoj89294]

Off topic question: When visiting musical instrument museums, there are many 
viols, and especially viola d'amores, that, instead of a scroll, have the head 
of a girl carved with a blindfold over her eyes. These carvings are always 
carved beautifully. My question is; what is the significance of this? A muse? A 
reference to a classical myth? Thanks-trj
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[LUTE] Re: OT: blindfolded girl

[Theoj89294]

The heads all bear a very feminine appearance, so I am surprised it is meant to 
represent Cupid, but looks can be deceiving (e.g. Carravagio's lute player - I 
also thought was a woman). 


On Jul 11, 2013, at 13:59, Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@gmx.de wrote:

   I found this:
 
   http://violadamore.com/index.php/viola-d-amore-background-info.html
 
   Often the long peg box is topped with a carved blindfolded cupid's
   head - symbolizing the 'viola of love' derivation of the name.
 
   ---
   Dr. Franz Mechsner
   Zum Kirschberg 40
   D-14806 Belzig OT Borne
   franz.mechs...@gmx.de
   +49(0)33841-441362
 
 
   Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Juli 2013 um 16:52 Uhr
   Von: theoj89...@aol.com
   An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Betreff: [LUTE] OT: blindfolded girl
   Off topic question: When visiting musical instrument museums, there are
   many viols, and especially viola d'amores, that, instead of a scroll,
   have the head of a girl carved with a blindfold over her eyes. These
   carvings are always carved beautifully. My question is; what is the
   significance of this? A muse? A reference to a classical myth?
   Thanks-trj
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 References
 
   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Further to: Bar end supports on lutes

[theoj89294]

Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't support blocks under the bars be a very 
possible source of buzzing? ..unless one used glue, in which case top removal 
would be much more difficult?



-Original Message-
From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: David Van Edwards da...@vanedwards.co.uk
Cc: Lute builder Dmth lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Fri, Feb 8, 2013 4:18 am
Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Further to: Bar end supports on lutes



  Dear David,
   I well take your point about Hellwig's observations. But, it's not just
  my observations of the Stautinger. More significantly here's what Mace
  has to say (incidentally, he recognises the nerve-wracking aspect of
  the operation and says  Then fear nothing, but boldly proceed to the
  Uniting).
anoint all the Edges Carefully round, where you know they must
  Joyn, and every Barr-end be sure you touch well, .. .  Of course
  Mace wasn't a professional builder or repairer but I presume he had
  been originally instructed by a London repairer (he says if you don't
  want to repair it yourself there's no choice but to pack it off to
  London).
   regardsa
   Martyn

   --- On Thu, 7/2/13, David Van Edwards da...@vanedwards.co.uk wrote:
 From: David Van Edwards da...@vanedwards.co.uk
Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Further to: Bar end supports on lutes
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk, Lute builder
Dmth lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Thursday, 7 February, 2013, 16:39
   Yes, as far as I have observed no lutes were made using support
  blocks, however obvious it would be to give strength. In fact one of
  the commonest problems with amateur made instruments is the tendency
  to make things too strong. It is a maxim to bear in mind that lutes
  sound best when right on the point of collapse! Trembling with fear
  as it were!
  I do remember many years ago asking Friedmann Hellwig specifically
  about whether he thought bar ends were glued to the ribs and he said
  quite clearly that he thought not. Maybe accidental glue in the joint
  there, but nothing deliberate he said. He has probably examined  more
  original lutes than anyone, so I'm inclined to take him seriously.
  But of course this is not to deny Martyn's observation of the
  Stautinger mandora, different makers probably had different
  practices, even then.
  Best wishes,
  David
  At 15:32 + 7/2/13, William Samson wrote:
  Dear Martyn,
  
  What you say makes perfect sense.  I will continue to follow the
  example set by the old ones.
  
  Kind regards,
  
  Bill
  From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
  To: Lute builder Dmth [2]lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2013, 14:46
  Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Further to: Bar end supports on lutes
Further to the recent mailings about using supports to the bar
  ends
  of
lutes (as commonly found on guitars) to avoid then becoming
  loose,
there were few responses and the gist seemed to bit that it was
  a
  good
idea and unlikely to injure the instrument's tone.
This may be the case, but I'd like to insert a note of caution:
  as
  far
as I'm aware no old lute has such bar end supports so we need to
  be
very careful before considering their general modern use.
  Perhaps
  the
slight angle between the rib and belly - a little less than a
  right
angle - provides sufficient end support if the bars are fitted
precisely to the rib and at the exact same angle (not possible
  on the
guitar which is a right angle). And, of course, the vast
  majority of
lute makers did not seem to make guitars - and vice-versa (few
exceptions such as Tielke of course and a some workshops) .
  One other factor which provides more secure bar end fixing
  also
  occurs
to me: Mace speaks of a method of sticking on the belly in one
operation (and of ensuring the bar ends are very well applied
  with
glue). It's a procedure I now usually follow and, tho' it can be
  a
  bit
nerve-wracking, the capability of animal glue to be readily
  remelted
in-situ allows post fixing adjustments to be easily made (and
  indeed
Mace mentions this). If one makes a pig's ear of the whole
  business
  one
can remove again, clean up and try again next day.  It occurs to
  me
that the (modern?) method of sticking on a lute belly by working
  slowly
round trying to get glue into the join is fine - except when one
  comes
to the bar end where it can be difficult to ensure one has
  worked in
sufficient glue - in short the bar end may be starved.
The latest original historic lute I've been able to examine
  inside in
detail is a 1773 instrument by Stautinger which exhibits all

[LUTE] Music 4 Twelfth Night

[theoj89294]

Does anyone have a source -ren lute tab and voice - for the songs in 
Shakespeare's Twelfth Night? I transcribed these by ear over three decades ago 
off of someone's LP for a production when I was in college, but only the vague 
melodies in my head remain. I have the Brian Wright's great scores, but I alm 
looking for the old traditional (?) arrangements. Thanks in advance. trj

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[LUTE] Re: Lute painting

[theoj89294]

Perhaps:
http://www.lutevoice.com/luteiconography/SlideShow_assets/SlideShow.html?lang=en

 ?

 

 

-Original Message-
From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Mon, Feb 4, 2013 8:56 am
Subject: [LUTE] Lute painting


   I wonder what the layout of the upper head of this lute might be?

   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif

   Artist Jacopo Vignale, early 17th Century.

   Bill

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif


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[LUTE] Re: Lute painting

[theoj89294]

I'll try again:
http://www.lutevoice.com/luteiconography/Page%204.html
Got to the painting by J.G. Platzer; an apparently non-offset theorbo neck 
extension.

 

 

-Original Message-
From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
To: David Van Edwards da...@vanedwards.co.uk
Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Mon, Feb 4, 2013 1:53 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute painting


   Hi David,

   Looks like it's in the National Gallery of Ireland.
   [1]http://www.nationalgallery.ie/en/aboutus/Images_and_Licensing/Print_
   Sales/Music%20and%20Dance/Saint%20Cecilia.aspx

   Looking at this reproduction, there are a couple of misty wingtips as
   if the guy who added the wings had changed his mind about where they
   should be at some point.

   The woman at the harpsichord has a halo (- later addition?).  This may
   account for it's St Cecilia title.  She looks very mature (and
   happy) in comparison with other depictions of the saint.  As you say,
   the angels don't look particularly other-worldly.

   Great fun, this speculation!

   Bill
   From: David Van Edwards da...@vanedwards.co.uk
   To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013, 17:54
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute painting
 Dear Bill,
 Yes to all of that!
 Meanwhile if we wonder about alterations, do you notice that you can
 see right through one of the wings to the windowframe behind? Frankly
 the wings look rather out of period and style when taken together
   with
 the secular detailed nature of the clothing. The nice touch of the
 tuning hammer on the ironed cloth by the harpsichord also suggests
   the
 artist knew the other instrument too. It all looks very domestic, not
 quite how I imagine the angels behaving, and anyway where are the
   wings
 of the motherly soul playing harpsichord?
 Do you happen to know where it lives at the moment?
 Best wishes,
 David
 At 17:41 + 4/2/13, William Samson wrote:
   Hi David and Roman,
   Yes - The Rauwolf/Molinaer type what what first occurred to me, but
   the basses wouldn't be offset in that case.  Another oddity is the
   very narrow, parallel-sided neck which wouldn't match Rauwolf (or
   any other lute) either.  And yet, to me, the body of the lute is
   perfectly proportioned - Rose in the right place; bridge details
   correct - suggesting that the artist knew his lutes.  So why the
   odd
   neck?
   I wonder if the painting was altered at some stage by another
   artist?  Maybe it was originally a big 7c or 8c instrument and
   somebody decided to bring it 'up to date' with an extended neck and
   a load of diapasons.
   Anyway - I very much doubt if we've hit upon a new, hitherto
   unknown
   lute type.
   Best regards,
   Bill
   From: David Van Edwards [2]da...@vanedwards.co.uk
   To: William Samson [3]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   Cc: Lute List [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013, 15:07
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Lute painting
   Dear Bill,
   I assume one of these.
   [1][5]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif
   Sixtus Rauwolf Augsburg 1599 now in Copenhagen No. 93
   This is the sole survivor of this type that Molenaer made famous.
   But
   your painting has the lower strings offset in in a strange, rather
   excessive, manner.  Maybe a case of dodgy perspective rather than
   distortion. But if the offset is genuine then the upper pegbox must
   be something other, and to me unknown.
   Best wishes,
   David
   At 13:54 + 4/2/13, William Samson wrote:
   I wonder what the layout of the upper head of this lute might
   be?
   
   [1][2][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
   
   Artist Jacopo Vignale, early 17th Century.
   
   Bill
   
   --
   
   References
   
   1. [3][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
   
   
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --
   The Smokehouse,
   6 Whitwell Road,
   Norwich,  NR1 4HB
   England.
   Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899
   Website: [5][9]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
   --
 The Smokehouse,
 6 Whitwell Road,
 Norwich,  NR1 4HB
 England.
 Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899
 Website: [10]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
 --
   References
 1. [11]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif
 2. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
 3. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
 4. [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 5. [15]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/

   --

References

   1. 

[LUTE] Kremsmunster lute collection

[theoj89294]

I will be in Austria, and am thinking of traveling to Kremsmünster to see the 
lute collection at the Benediktinerstift. Has anyone seen the collection, and 
would it be worth the trip? Also, Are there any other lute collections in the 
are worth visiting. I have already seen the museum lute collections in Munich. 
Thanks in advance. try
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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Advice from Burwell

[theoj89294]

Lute playing advice from the Burwell Lute Tutor - for french baroque lute:

To make people dance withthe lute it is improper; it is true that a young lady 
may dance the saraband withher lute, and that is all. It is neither proper to 
sing with the lute, it beinga perfect consort of itself; for the voice is but a 
repetition of the treble,and if you sing the treble or any other part (for you 
can sing but one) thatpart will drown the others. This instrument requireth 
silence and a serious attention.It is used commonly at the going to bed of the 
Kings of France, and that timeis the time of most rest and silence. If you will 
play well of the lute youmust not play too many lessons nor use many several 
tunings at once. If youwill play upon several tunings, you must have several 
lutes. In conclusion, thegreatest error that is in playing upon the lute is to 
play too fast, and not tokeep the time, and not to use the right fingers. 
Without that, play never sowell, you are but a bungler and fit only to amaze 
the ignorant sort of peopleand make a fool of yourself!
 . p62


From Miss Mary Burwell's Instruction Book for the Lute: Thurston Dart. The 
Galpin Society Journal, Vol. 11 (May, 1958), pp. 3-62 




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[LUTE] Re: Lute artwork

[theoj89294]

A great site for lute iconography:


http://www.klassiskgitar.net/imagesmain.html



-Original Message-
From: Alain Veylit al...@signtracks.com
To: AJN arthurjn...@verizon.net
Cc: joshua-horn joshua-h...@att.net; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wed, Oct 17, 2012 11:30 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute artwork


There are also a few paintings at musickshandmade.com/lute/paintings/
Alain


On 10/17/2012 02:59 PM, AJN wrote:
  Here's the most extensive gallery I know.
 [1]http://www.lutevoice.com/luteiconography/Page%201.html


 On 10/17/12, Joshua Hornjoshua-h...@att.net wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 I'm looking for various artwork (paintings or drawings) of lutes and or
 people playing them from the time period. I had a link to a page that
 one of you graciously sent me in regards to lute roses but I've since
 misplaced that information. Can anyone send me a link to a page with
 artwork regarding lutes?
 Thanks,
 Josh
  + Joshua Edward Horn + 
 --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 References

 1. http://www.lutevoice.com/luteiconography/Page%201.html
 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/




 

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[LUTE] Re: The Huntes Up: meaning?

[theoj89294]

Hunting seems to have been a popular theme for music. I remember hearing an 
historical recording of an old irish uillean piper who played a 'suite' of 
melodies of The Foxhunt - musically depicting all stages of the hunt, even 
including the barking of the dogs and the wailing of the mortally wounded fox - 
eerily reproduced on the pipes. The Fox Hunters slip jig and Fox Hunters reel 
are still some of the most common irish session tunes. trj



-Original Message-
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
To: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tue, Jul 31, 2012 4:20 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: The Huntes Up: meaning?


Actually The hunt's up or The hunt is up.  i.e. up and running. Wiki 
gives the following jingle

The hunt is up, the hunt is up,
And it is a well nigh day;
And Harry our king has gone hunting,
To bring his deer to bay.

Not clear which King Harry though as there were 8 of them.

Monica

- Original Message - 
From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
To: lutelist Net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 8:26 AM
Subject: [LUTE] The Huntes Up: meaning?


I can think of half a dozen meanings, and will consult the OED (once I
 found my looking glass ...) to discredit some of these while finding a
 few more, but is there anybody out there who has an Opinion,
 Definitive Answer or otherwise Meaningful Insight to give?

 David

 -- 
 ***
 David van Ooijen
 davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 www.davidvanooijen.nl
 ***



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[LUTE] Re: modern lute music v Eastern wisdom

[theoj89294]

A beautiful and deeply touching presentation. Thank you. trj



-Original Message-
From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
To: lutelist Net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Baroque Lute List (E-mail) 
baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tue, Jul 17, 2012 1:36 am
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] modern lute music v Eastern wisdom


In May I played a piece by Brian Wright at the Lute Society meeting in
London. I recorded it and a friend supplied beautiful pictures and
what I domestically call 'Oriental Wisdom'.
Have a look and tell me what you think of the result:
http://youtu.be/cWX8YLCRmrw


David

-- 
***
David van Ooijen
davidvanooi...@gmail.com
www.davidvanooijen.nl
***



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[LUTE] Lute sighting

[theoj89294]

The Lee Valley tool company of Canada published a full page picture of a 13c 
baroque lute (by David Weston of Merrickville, Ontario, Canada).
http://www.leevalley.com/US/home/OnlineCatalogs.aspx
Click on the June 2012 supplement
 

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[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Scalloped Ribs

[theoj89294]

font color='black' size='2' face='arial'font class=Apple-style-span 
size=2Given the severe scalloping in some of the iconography (although it 
might be artist license on part of the painter), I wonder if some of the early 
makers made very thick ribs out of a relatively soft wood, and then scraped the 
ribs to scallop them. This would give nice thick robust glue joints between the 
ribs, which was probably a good thing back in those days, but the scalloping 
would reduce the weight. I've thought of experimenting by trying this, but I 
have not yet./font
divfont class=Apple-style-span size=2There is an old lute shell on 
display in the Cite de la Musique, in Paris (Laux Maler nbsp;E.2005.3.1), and, 
from what I can tell, instead if smoothly scalloping over time, the glue joint 
between the ribs appears raised, but the remainder of the rib is flat, not 
curved/scalloped, thus giving a 'pseudo-scalloped' appearance.- 
trjnbsp;/fontbr
br
br

div style=font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 10pt; color: black; 
-Original Message-br
From: Louis Aull lt;aul...@comcast.netgt;br
To: lute-builder lt;lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edugt;br
Sent: Fri, May 18, 2012 3:44 pmbr
Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Scalloped Ribsbr
br







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Bill,



A lute rib tapers at each end, which means the outer fibers that would have
made it down to the fastening point on each end are cut. As a result, there
is no circular binding force to hold them down like the center fibers of the
rib have. As the wood naturally tries to straighten out of its bend, the
scallop occurs since there is nothing to stop the outer fibers from
straightening. To enhance this naturally, don't bend the rib completely to
the form, and use some force to pull the rib onto the form to complete the
curve. The edges will curl up away from the form more. To defeat this, over
bend and heat twice so the rib is over curved, and the scallop will lay flat
when forced onto the form. Cut the rib roughly to shape before bending .
Another trick is to fasten the rib at each end on the form and use a heat
gun on the outer edges of the rib. The heat will cause the bent curve on the
outer portions to relax and the rib will curl up more. All these methods
produce a mild scallop. It helps to bend all the ribs before installing them
so they are consistent and will meet up on the form. For a brutal scallop,
you would need a shaped forming iron to force the complex curve (yuk). The
thinner the rib, the more the scallop. However, get too thin and you risk
plastic deformation of the shell at the neck block, and the neck will come
forward, ruining the action.



I use aircraft silk on the back of rib joints and have never had one crack.
I can actually heat the inside of the shell before putting on the soundboard
to relax out any stress in the shell. This also enhances the scallop.



I have seen lutes (60's and 70's) where the maker made the ribs thick and
scraped the scallop out.



Louis Aull

Phone: 770.978.1872

Fax: 866.496.4294

Cell:404.932.1614

LOGO3




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[LUTE] Chanterelle choice?

[theoj89294]

I bought a 7c ren lute strung in Nylgut. I love the Nygut, except for the 
chanterelle, it just doesn't seem to feel or sing as strongly as I wish - it 
seems thin. Do others have this problem? If so any suggestions, I've thought of 
going back to a nylon (which would be thicker?). Thanks in advance trj
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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Lobkowicz collections, CZ

[theoj89294]

The Lobkowicz estate owns several
baroque lutes and several baroque lute manuscripts or books that are on display
at the Lobkowicz Palace in Prague, Czech Republic. 


http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/


Are the lute books of any interest,
and if so, are copies anywhere available? Likewise, are there technical
drawings of any of the lutes available? It is a very interesting collection of
lutes and, apparently a few lute books, (as well as a baroque guitar and at
least one baroque guitar book), but there is little specific information given
at the Palace exhibit, and I could find no additional information online.







 

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[LUTE] Emperor Rudolf II

[theoj89294]

Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf II from Bohemia (ca late 1500s -1612?), was such a 
patron of the arts and sciences, did he sponsor any significant 
lutenist/composers? Are there collections (Mss, books) from this era during his 
reign? It seems like Bohemia, esp Prague, under Rudolf II was a very 
intellectially and artistically rich place, I would be surprised if there 
wasn't a significant lute presence/contribution during this era (unless he 
personally didn't like the lute?)
trj

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[LUTE] Miking III - outside

[theoj89294]

With summer theatre production fast approaching, Any recommendations for 
amplification of a ren lute for outside (shakespeare in the park) performance?
Sitting in front of a mic? (what kind - diaphragm/condenser?)
Attached transducer? What kind? Does anyone stroll while amplified? Anyone have 
a lute with an internal built in transducer (gasp!) and 1/4 inch out (double 
gasp!)?
any suggestions are welcome. trj
 
 

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[LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?

[theoj89294]

In my humble opinion: one chooses an instrument as one chooses a mate; but for 
an instrument it is primarily playability and sound. Nothing else matters. As 
in choosing a mate, others may think your choice beautiful, or ugly, easy or 
difficult. As long as YOU are in love, and your needs are met, nothing else 
matters, does it? trj



-Original Message-
From: Eugene Kurenko eugene.kure...@gmail.com
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sat, Apr 7, 2012 11:57 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?


   2012/4/7 Eugene Kurenko [1]eugene.kure...@gmail.com

 Haha :) BC Rich guitars looks not badl but Carlos Santana's PRS
 sounds much better :) And the sound is primary.

   2012/4/7 hera caius [2]caiush2...@yahoo.com

   Here is the instrument:
   (I' m worning you that it's not so horror)
   [1][3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Rich
   and here is the music:
   [2][4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_metal
   You can't go wrong and especially you can't get sick... :)
   Good luck!

   --

References

   1. mailto:eugene.kure...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:caiush2...@yahoo.com
   3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Rich
   4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_metal


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[LUTE] Re: 4022, 40588

[theoj89294]

Is there any scholarly description of, discussion of, or list of tunes in the 
Staatsbibliothek - Berlin, Ms 4022. On first glance, it looks interesting. trj



-Original Message-
From: Rainer rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
To: Lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:57 pm
Subject: [LUTE] 4022, 40588


Go to http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/dms/suche/

and search for

Lautentabulatur

Rainer



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[LUTE] Re: Quality vs Quantity

[theoj89294]

The problem with ALL self-publishing: there are no editors. 
At the current increasing rate of low quality product uploaded onto the web (in 
all media), I wonder what the web will look like in 10 years. Will it even be 
possible to find quality?
 

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[LUTE] Re: Jarring the mood with slow pieces.

[theoj89294]

 I would consider this quite a compliment! - I've played plenty of gigs where 
the musician is absolutely, totally ignored. To have your music effect the 
crowd in such a way gives you the power to direct the crowd's mood as you 
please! And, did it 'dampen the crowd' or did it elicit more quiet listening 
among the attendees? trj

 

 

-Original Message-
From: andy butler akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
To: LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 3:25 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Jarring the mood with slow pieces.



On Jan 30, 2012, at 11:29 AM, Herbert Ward wrote:

  I played an art show this afternoon. 
 
  sometimes a slow piece seemed to
  dampen the liveliness of the crowd.  This happened especially when
  the slow piece followed a fast piece.

perhaps this is when they appreciate the art?
;-)


andy



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[LUTE] Re: String hairs

[theoj89294]

 Human skin is acidic - we secrete weak acids through our skin - even the 
fingertips. This acid will slowly break down the collagen in the gut strings, 
thus shortening their lives. It is a good idea to wash one's hands (even if 
they are clean!) with soap before playing (soap is alkaline and neutralizes the 
acids). This is not a 'cure' , but it helps to slightly lengthen the short life 
of the gut string. 
Remember, Baron, in the Study of the Lute (1727), boasts that there are 
instances where a Roman string lasted four weeks. !!! So this problem is not 
new. trj

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thu, Jan 19, 2012 7:44 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: String hairs


   William, I have also been suffering recently from this problem, more
   than previously.
   I had dropped the pitch from 407 to 392Hz but while encreasing the
   diameter from 44 to 46 (70cm lute).
   This should result in a very slight drop in tension, but the fraying
   has been more frequent.
   This did, however, correspond with a change of string make, but in the
   past, when I had tried this particular maker's strings they
   had proved both very sweet, and quite strong. This could be due to a
   poor batch, or perhaps even be down
   to the strange weather we have had recently.
   In fact strangely, the last string I put on has lasted quite well,
   following about five that haven't done very well.
   When transporting my lute too and fro between very dry Paris, and humid
   Normandy, I have put my lute inside
   one of those survival sheets, within the lute case, just hoping that
   this may protect it from any extreme temperature or
   humidity shocks.
   Otherwise, I do as you do, snipping the hair as close as I dare to the
   string, with a fear that I might
   also snip the string, or slip and dig into the lute.
   Anthony
 __

   De : William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   A : David Smith d...@dolcesfogato.com
   Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Jeudi 19 Janvier 2012 9h28
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: String hairs
 Unless you want to be continually replacing your first string, you
 should either drop to a lower pitch standard (even a semitone will
 increase the lifespan quite significantly) or if that isn't an option
 (horror of horrors) use a synthetic (e.g. nylgut) string for your
 first.  There's always the forlorn hope that somebody will start
 producing stronger gut, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 Maybe one of us knows more than me about the process of giving gut an
 even diameter, but I have heard there are two options, one involving
 the abrasion of the 'rough' string, and the other using strings that
 have been very carefully hand-made with selected strips and don't
   need
 grinding of the string's surface to make it even.  The latter type
 would be stronger, but I wouldn't know where to buy them.
 Bill
 From: David Smith [1]d...@dolcesfogato.com
 To: Lute List [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2012, 6:25
 Subject: [LUTE] String hairs
   I have a new lute that has gut strings on it. I have had it for
   about
 3
   days. The 1^st string has unraveled a single hair about the 7^th
   fret. In the past I have just cut these as short as possible but
   frequently the string breaks within a couple of weeks. Is there any
   better way to treat these hairs?
   I play with no nails and have been very careful so am somewhat
   surprised at this happening so quickly. Is this common with gut
   strings?
   Thanks for any words of wisdom.
   Regards
   David
   --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
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 --
   References
 1. [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:d...@dolcesfogato.com
   2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html


 

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[LUTE] lutes near Prague?

[theoj89294]

I am looking to attend a conference in Prague an a few months. I am thinking of 
taking the train over to see the lute collection in Nuremberg. 
Are there any historical lutes to be seen in Prague or nearby (other than 
Vienna)?  thanks, trj


 

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Sharp keys seem to work well in d-minor tuned lute...

[theoj89294]

Out of curiosity - is there any evidence that Lute makers/players of the 
renaissance insisted on maintaining frets made from gut PRIMARILY because they 
would shift them around to accommodate the mean tuning within different keys? 
...otherwise, wouldn't have been easier for lute players of the time, if the 
makers simply glued on wooden frets??  trj



-Original Message-
From: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk
To: baroque-lute baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thu, Jan 5, 2012 11:07 pm
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Sharp keys seem to work well in d-minor tuned 
lute...


Hi Arto,

Well the temperament problem is the same for baroque and renaissance 
lute, with the 2nd to 4th courses being the same tuning and in the Dm 
tuning the 1st being the same as the 4th!  So G major works well, 
because you can have the 1st, 4th and 6th frets in the low position 
(nearer the nut), but A minor/major have a problem with the G# on the 
third fret (4th course) because you can't move that fret without 
upsetting the tuning of the C on the 3rd course.  Of course if the G# 
only occurs at the upper octave (first fret first course) then it's 
fine, you can have the first fret in low position.

Best wishes,

Martin

On 05/01/2012 21:30, wikla wrote:
 Dear baroque lutenists,

 to me - a newcomer to the d-minor lutes - the keys with one or two sharps
 seem to be much easier to get in better tuning than the equal temperament!
 Is this perhaps already a commonly known fact?

 On the other hand, for ex. the g-minor is problematic with its f# and bb on
 the same - and 1st! - fret. On higher frets it is much easier to affect to
 the pitch.

 Just wondering, how would that be with three sharps... f# minor and A major
 .. ;)  Any experienced opinions by lutenists interested in better than ET
 tuning?   ;-)

 Arto



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[LUTE] Re: Witch hazel.

[theoj89294]

As a physician, I doubt it would do anything for the fingertips because players 
fingertips are calloused, and astringents (such as witch Hazel) work to 
constrict softer and less keratinized tissues, such as the face, or especially 
mucous membranes.  trj



-Original Message-
From: Herbert Ward wa...@physics.utexas.edu
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 3:47 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Witch hazel.



I have a bottle of witch-hazel, a topical medicine
available in any drug store.  The label says that it
is an astringent.

The Wikipedia ariticle on astringents says that they
dry, harden, and protect the skin.

This makes me wonder whether there are circumstances
under which witch-hazel might be beneficial to our
fingertips.  Does anyone know enough dermatology to
give us an opinion?



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Jim Jarmusch and baroque lute

[theoj89294]

Poor balance. I think they should have turned the lute amp up a little  :-)



-Original Message-
From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com
To: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net
Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2011 10:03 am
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Jim Jarmusch and baroque lute


On 12/12/2011 13:44, Roman Turovsky wrote:
 http://vimeo.com/32220565

 Enjoy,
 RT


Did you enjoy it?



Stuart





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[LUTE] Dowland's Farewell

[theoj89294]

I recently heard Paul O'Dette perform, and he mentioned that Dowland's Farewell 
(from the Cambridge ms?), beautifully and masterfully quotes up to 14 of 
Dowland's own compositions - making it a perfect Farewell. Has anyone written 
about this, and dissected the Farewell to identify the various 'quotations'? 
This is my absolute favourite ren lute piece, and I would be most interested to 
learn more. Thanks
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[LUTE] Re: injury prevention

[theoj89294]

There is a fairly 'new' approach to elbow pain from epicondylitis (tennis 
elbow), involving using a stiff but flexible bar. This, like several new 
approaches, works by 'turning off' reflexes through antagonistic muscle action 
and a combination of concentric and eccentric motion muscle contraction. Anyone 
suffering from tennis elbow-like complaints ought to download this little 
article - it has easy to follow instructions that one can do at home ( sorry, 
nothing available specifically for wrist pains yet, but this exercise could 
potentially help the wrist too):


http://www.optp.com/userfiles/file/PDF%20Storage/NY%20Times%20article_flexbar.pdf




(Original article from NewYork Times, PDF from www.OPTP.com website)




-Original Message-
From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
Cc: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thu, Dec 1, 2011 1:17 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: injury prevention


   Hi Anthony,
   Interesting that you should mention the NSD Powerball.  For UK readers
   info, I was shopping in Sainsbury's yesterday and they had Powerball
   copies at -L-5 among their 'scientific toys'.  If I remember right,
   there was a three-for-the-price-of-two or similar offer so they
   could work out even cheaper.
   Certainly as I age old injuries are coming back to haunt me - mostly
   intermittent tendonitis and painful joints.  Still, I believe that lute
   playing is very good for helping me deal with these and keeps things
   moving.
   Bill
   From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   To: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com;
   lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011, 10:19
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: injury prevention
   David
 I sympathise as suffering myself from capsulitis (computer
 induced?); and the effect is far worse using my 70cm lute, in
 particular when the  piece demands that LH stay on the lower frets. I
 try to adop a position which minimizes the extension of the left arm,
 but I am never quite free of these effects. I have used Chinese
   balls,
 exercises with Gripmansters of various strngths, and also Condo
 digiextend hand.
 I do find that five minutes with a medium gripmaster followed by a
 digiextend gets me over most hand pains, and the Grip master also
   seems
 to improve finger tip touch. It has a rough surface, and after a few
 minutes the surface and contact area seems to change. I have better
 contact with the strings. I do not use any of these to get stronger,
 but to warm up before playing. Clearly, it is not strength but
 economical use of it which helps avoid RSI.
 Now I just saw an extreme machine for strenthening wrists, the Marcy
 wedge, and some wrist and carpal damaged people seem to have some
 success with it, but others not. It seems that an early model made of
 metal was better than the present plastic one, but it does look as
 though it might do as much damage itself, as good.
 It makes me think about Schumann, although apparently that his injury
 was due to a machine, might be more myth than reality (even flutists
 suffer from RSI)
 [1]http://www.lunnflutes.com/ho6.htm
 Nevertheless, I am ready to try the NSD Power ball hoping it may
   help,
 but I notice on Amazon that the NSD version has few write-ups, while
 two others Dynaflex Digital Speed meter and Dynaflex extreme steel do
 have a number of good reviews.
 Which one are you using David? I am willing to give it a whirl to try
 to undo a few year's damage.
 Regards
 Anthony
   __
 De : David van Ooijen [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 A : lutelist Net [3]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Envoye le : Jeudi 1 Decembre 2011 9h49
 Objet : [LUTE] injury prevention
 Tendinitis in arms and hands comes up once in a while on this list.
 The woman from our local Thai take away suffers from a similar form
   as
 I do: inflamed tendons at the wrist. In her case it comes from doing
 too much fancy vegetable carving. She found relief (notice the
 spelling!) in a 'power ball'.  Her husband runs a shop in (Thai)
 sports' articles across the street, so she got me a 'Nsd Power Ball'.
 Strong stuff, like her food! Perhaps approached with care when you
   are
 suffering now, but it is supposed to be a good injury prevention,
   used
 e.g. by people spending many hours behind a computer keyboard.
 David
 --
 ***
 David van Ooijen
 [1][4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 www.davidvanooijen.nl
 ***
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 Visible links
 1. mailto:[6]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 2. 

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Compilation of historical pitches?

[theoj89294]

From extant organ pipes and wind instruments and knowledge of their date and 
origin, I assume that one can roughly determine what pitches (e.g. A=392, 410, 
415, etc) were used in different regions at different times. My 
non-musicologist's mind would also guess that maybe some musicologist has 
compiled this data? Is there a source that might help determine what pitch was 
used in during the renaissance and baroque periods in different regions of 
europe? Or is it not this easy?
 
 

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[LUTE] MIM's one lute

[theoj89294]

I just had the great pleasure of visiting MIM - the recently opened Musical 
Instrument Museum - in Phoenix, Arizona, USA. It is a beautiful and spacious 
museum. Music traditions from all around the world are displayed by region or 
country with authentic instruments and many fascinating field videos showing 
the amazing artistry and musical expression of our fellow humans of every 
culture. 


http://www.themim.org/



Although the museum has oodles of Ouds, and Guitars galore, they - sadly - have 
only one lone Lute on display: a 10 course lute made by Mathias Durvie, Paris, 
1974. It is ironic that there are many lutes in europe that remain in the 
museum storage rooms for lack of exhibit space, yet (although I cannot speak 
for the museum) MIM seem to have plenty of exhibit space... but only one lute :(

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[LUTE] Re: cold finger tips

[theoj89294]

 Don't smoke (nicotine squeezes down blood vessels). I hate to mention it...but 
alcohol is a vasodilator and will generally warm up the fingertips, but alcohol 
also decreases motor activity and accuracy...are you just playing background 
music? ;-)
 

 

-Original Message-
From: Dick Brook richa...@ptd.net
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sun, Nov 13, 2011 10:53 am
Subject: [LUTE] cold finger tips


Hi Netters

I'm interested in any remedies for cold finger tips, which I  
invariably get when I play a gig in a cold room.
Very frustrating-fingerless gloves? chemicals?, Holding a cup of tea  
an hour before?

Any suggestion appreciated.

Dick Brook

richa...@ptd.net



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[LUTE] Savarez KF dealer in USA?

[theoj89294]

Is there a Savarez dealer in the USA? I am looking to try the Alliance KF 
strings on a renaissance lute (unless members of this newsgroup warn me not 
to..) And how do I calculate thicknesses to order?Thanks, trj
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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Beginning Weiss?

[theoj89294]

I play mostly 11 course b-lute, not great facility on the 13 course yet (my 
13-c string spacing is dramatically different, which throws me off). I have not 
played any Weiss, but I want to learn a moderate, to moderately easy complete 
Weiss suite on 11 course. Does anyone have a recommendation which suite(s) may 
be appropriate for a person with moderate skills and an 11-c? Thanks, trj
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[LUTE] Re: Renaissance lute string length

[theoj89294]

Take great care with stretching exercises of the hand!! I deal fairly often 
with musicians' injuries, and musicians are nearly as bad as competitive 
athletes as far as abusing their bodies to try to get better performance. 
Remember that Robert Schumann permanently damaged his right hand trying to 
increase his performance by stretching his fingers with some contraption. 
Slow and easy is generally the rule of thumb for stretching. Much damage can be 
done by stretching too aggressively. Just a reminder
trj





-Original Message-
From: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com
To: Eugene Kurenko eugene.kure...@gmail.com
Cc: LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:59 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance lute  string length


Thank you Bruno and both Eugenes,

 Paul O'Dette's comments are very interesting - I'll read the whole 
interview, Eugene.  ( I wonder what string length P O uses on his Renaissance 
lutes).  Yes, scale passages are not a problem with longer string lengths, I'm 
sure.  I would expect the problems to be with fingered chords, especially 
barred 
chords.  
 Your stretching exercises are impressive, E.K.  I can't achieve that kind 
of stretch myself - with practice??  Certainly no problems for you in 
performing 
the Dowland, at least using single stringing.

-Ned
On Aug 10, 2011, at 2:03 PM, Eugene Kurenko wrote:

 From interview with Paul O'Dette:
 
 Q: Much lute music would seem to be played more easily on smaller instruments 
than today's typical G lute, yet contemporary paintings don't show a 
preponderance of such small instruments. People living then certainly weren't 
bigger than us. Did they stretch more or perhaps weren't so attached to 
sustaining notes or am I missing something?
 
 A: This is a very interesting question which has many different aspects. I 
think early players developed more stretch than we do today, by doing exercises 
to keep the skin in between the fingers as elastic as possible, they also used 
various oils to keep the skin flexible, they developed stretching techniques 
which involved releasing the thumb from the back of the fingerboard, and also 
used the left hand thumb to play some bass notes. The string spacing of most 
Renaissance lutes is very tight at the nut, making the lateral stretches easier 
than on today's wider spacing. The problem this creates, however, is that it is 
more difficult to keep from brushing up against other strings with left hand 
fingers since the courses are closer together. This would suggest three things 
to me: 1) That they had smaller, thinner fingers which required less clearance, 
2) that they came straight down with the l.h. fingers using only the tips of 
the 
fingers and 3) They were less fussy about li!
 ttle noises and buzzes than we are today. I suspect that they also did not 
sustain bass notes to nearly the degree we do today. 
 -
 Thw whole interview can be found here:
 http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/PODinterview.html
 
 BTW I play now on lute with 67cm. Not easy but possible even with my smal 
hands. But I had to stretch my fingers like this:
 http://pics.livejournal.com/_m_a_s_t_e_r_/pic/0009xtz8
 
 Here is my Dowland on 67cm:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2srIsT8xuE
 
 As you can see it's not perfect but quite satisfactory. The main difficulties 
for me were from double courses. Especially in chords. There is no significant 
difference for me in playing scale passages between 60cm and 67cm. But in 
chords 
theese 7cm are very important. So I had to remove all that doubles and now play 
on single courses.
 
 2011/8/10 Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com
 The more I read about the lute during the 16th century, the more it seems to 
me that the norm for string length then was closer to 65 cm than the 60 cm 
which 
seems more favored and common today.  Are we (myself included) - who choose the 
shorter mensur - wimps?  If classical guitarists of all shapes and sizes can 
manage a 64 cm mensur, should we lutenists not be able to do likewise?  Just 
wondering . . .
 -Ned
 
 
 
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[LUTE] Re: Images archive

[theoj89294]

A beautiful collection, and many thanks for the hard work that went into 
creating this! I wish, however, that more images would complete information 
regarding in what museum or collection the painting resides. I love browsing 
through all of these images, there always seems to be something new and 
unexpected-





-Original Message-
From: Andreas Schlegel lute.cor...@sunrise.ch
To: lute list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2011 9:06 am
Subject: [LUTE] Images archive


Have a look on that:

http://www.klassiskgitar.net/imagesmain.html

A wonderful collection!

Andreas



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[LUTE] Re: Mace

[theoj89294]

IMHO, I find the ornaments - both the interpretation as well as their execution 
- devilishly difficult for the french baroque lute... at least to the point of 
making them sound elegant and effortless. I think there are subtleties with 
baroque lute that create challenges. Ren  Baroque both challenging to do well, 
but for very different reasons. It is almost comparing apples to oranges (...to 
inject an over-used cliche).
trj





-Original Message-
From: Daniel Shoskes kidneykut...@gmail.com
To: brentlynk brentl...@bellsouth.net
Cc: sterling price spiffys84...@yahoo.com; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sun, Jul 17, 2011 1:38 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mace


   I think with the Ren lute it is easier to play a reasonable beginner
   piece more quickly than with the baroque lute. Once the right hand
   thumb gets trained on the baroque lute, then I think it is the easier
   instrument for medium and high difficulty works. It's really a case of
   what is more difficult for you and the size of your hands and fingers:
   scrunched together left hand chords on the Ren lute or a flying right
   hand thumb (with or without damping) on the baroque lute.
   Danny

   On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:26 AM, brentlynk
   [1]brentl...@bellsouth.net wrote:

 Hi, Sterling and Ed,
 Part of me wants to believe you when you say baroque lute is easier,
 and I do
 recall having read that...the chords do seem easier than chord
 fingerings in
 renaissance tuning. However, part of me is wondering if you are
 kidding me? :-)
 If you are, I think it's great and I don't mind a bit...
 Warm regards,
 Brent
 - Original Message 
 From: sterling price [2]spiffys84...@yahoo.com
 To: [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 1:19:58 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mace
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mace
  You couldn't get better encouragement than from Mace. He tells how
  'easy' the Baroque lute is compared to those of the past.
  Good luck.
 Mace is absolutely right about this. Much easier
 -Sterling Price
  On Jul 17, 2011, at 2:25 AM, brentlynk wrote:
I am just about to get started on the baroque lute and any
 informed
guidance
will be welcomed and appreciated...
  Ed Durbrow
  Saitama, Japan
  [1][4]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/
  [2][5]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
  --
 References
  1. [6]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/
  2. [7]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:brentl...@bellsouth.net
   2. mailto:spiffys84...@yahoo.com
   3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/
   5. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
   6. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/
   7. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html


 

--

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Pachelbel B-lute pieces

[theoj89294]

Are there a few pieces composed by Johann Pachelbel in a baroque lute 
manuscript somewhere (does my memory serve me correct)? If so, which 
manuscript, and do they have any musical interest? Have they been recorded? 
thanks,  trj
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[LUTE] French-head drawings?

[theoj89294]

Are there any technical drawings of a 'French-head' (double head - one bent 
back, basses on a straight extension) lutes from any collection available? 
Thanks in advance. trj
 

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Bittner 1682/1702

[theoj89294]

Does anyone know if Jacques Bittner's Pieces de Luth 1682 has been published 
or is available online? Konrad Junganel recorded an LP with this title, and I 
am looking for the music.
I see that Tree Edition has reprinted Bittner's Pieces de Luth 1702. Did 
Bittner actually publish two books with the same title, the same book 
republished twenty years later, or a false date listed on the LP? Thanks in 
advance.
 

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[LUTE] wemyss

[theoj89294]

Does anyone know the status of the Wemyss manuscript.



http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/julia/ap1/Wemyss.htm


If memory served. the manuscript was privately owned but held by in the 
Edinburgh library(?). I have an old photocopy, and was wondering, if I scanned 
it electronically, if it would be acceptable to upload onto a site (like 
Scribd.com) for academic use by the wider lute community. Can anyone advise?
trj





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[LUTE] Re: Farre from triumphing court - text question

[theoj89294]

Faint: possibly past tense of feign - spelt in a non-standardized way?



 

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[LUTE] European lute collections

[theoj89294]

If one were planning a trip to europe this summer (with a rail pass), and 
wanted to see up to four of the best museum collections of lutes, which museums 
should be on the list?   thanks  -trj

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Weiss on keyboard

[theoj89294]

I had a request from a keyboard player: Are there any transcriptions of Weiss 
into standard two-staff notation available online?
(I lent my copy of Editions Orphee 'Moscow Weiss Manuscript')
I know of Jean-Daniel Forget's amazing work, are there any other sources? 
Thanks trj


 

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[LUTE] Laute, Theorbe, Chitarrone

[theoj89294]

What is the current consensus of Ernst Pohlmann's book, Laute, Theorbe, 
Chitarrone
Is it still reliable enough to use as a reference, or is it getting outdated?
Is there any work to update the material?



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[LUTE] Re: KF Harp strings and other types

[theoj89294]

 The great thing about harp strings is that they come in three colors - 
natural, black and red. 
You could string your basses all in red harp string so that they look like the 
renaissance loaded guts ;-)

 trj


 

 

-Original Message-
From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
Cc: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sat, Dec 11, 2010 4:18 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: KF Harp strings and other types




   Thank you Anthony,



   I think when you say 'below 0.95 the strings are composite' you mean

   the reverse - below 0.95 means thinner than this.



   I would only consider using these KF strings for basses and look

   forward to Saverez's reply - if they do



   regards



   Martyn

   '

   --- On Sat, 11/12/10, Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com wrote:



 From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com

 Subject: Re : KF Harp strings and other types

 To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk

 Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

 Date: Saturday, 11 December, 2010, 9:02



   Dear Martyn

 I will send your message to Savarez; but I think it will take

   time for them to answer.

   Carlos says that below 0.95 the strings are composite, above no.

   I have no direct experience with carbon, except as a listener. I Know

   Jacob Heringman used KF on his 5th course, and Martin has done so too,

   with some success. I believe that for the fourth course and above, the

   density of the monofilament KF is too dense and makes for too thin a

   string. I know players and lute makers can compensate for this, but New

   Nylgut is surely a better synthetic option.

   I believe, below the 5th course the monofilament was too damped, but

   perhaps the composite harps strings behave better, and may be this was

   what Stephen Gottlieb had tried and found fairly satisfactory. This

   could perhaps allow players to avoid wirewounds in situations where

   they feel they can't use gut.

   I don't think, however, we should pretend that any of these strings

   will quite have the warmth and expressivity of gut, even if the

   touche of a good player may well be far more important than strings.

   I still feel that string choices can make that small expressive

   difference.

   I do feel that how strings are combined, can almost be as important as

   the strings themselves. I have heard loaded strings combined with the

   old nylgut and neither then sounded very good. The old nylgut sounded

   too cold, in comparison with the warm loaded strings. Perhaps, the new

   nylgut might work better, but I honestly think that as a minimum loaded

   gut should be combined with gut octaves, and that the type of gut

   octave chosen is also important.

   Sorry to all for having apparently made a break away thread from the

   original. I have been having computer problems, and became a little

   confused after a number of hours trying to put things right.

   Regards

   Anthony

 __



   De : Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk

   A : mar...@luteshop.co.uk; Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com

   Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

   Envoye le : Sam 11 decembre 2010, 9h 35min 28s

   Objet : Re: KF Harp strings and other types

   Dear Anthony,



   Many thanks for your trouble and, yes, I'd like to take up your kind

   offer of asking Saverez (in perfect French!):



   1. Are these 'new' strings the same as the old KFG? And does KFN relate

   to the newness (nouveau) of the new strings?



   2. Are the strings less than .0.95mm in diameter monofilament and only

   thicker ones composite?



   3. What is the density of the composite strings (to allow for stringing

   calculations)? What is the density of the monofilament strings?



   I'd also like to  ask for the modulus if elasticity etc but fear they'd

   freak out!



   regards



   Martyn



 From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com

 Subject: KF Harp strings and other types

 To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk,

 mar...@luteshop.co.uk

 Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

 Date: Friday, 10 December, 2010, 23:52



   Dear Martyn and Martin

  It is true that Carlos' original message was slightly ambiguous,

   but I have asked him to clarify this question, and he tells me that

   between KFN33 et KFN91 the strings are still simplex monofilament, it

   is only below the diameter of 0,95mm (KFN95) that strings are

   composite. He goes  on to say that in his experience the lowest limit

   for lutes is KFN140.

   Carlos sends you his friendly regards

   Best wishes

   Anthony

   PS If you have more detailed questions, I will try to ask them to

   Savarez.

   Thank you for this Martin and Anthony. These strings are interesting as

   a further alternative to loaded, wire wound and the 'spring' string;

   especially for those with a large number of instruments to 

[LUTE] New Savarez harp strings?

[theoj89294]

I was recently at a harp convention (wife is a harpist), and a harp repairman 
told me about a new advance in strings from Savarez, 
that they have produced a nylon string (NOT carbon fibre, nor other synthetic) 
that has fibres of some sort imbedded within, 
The fibres apparently lend both strength and warmth, to sound and feel more 
like gut.
I checked the Savarez website but the site has scant information (at least in 
the english site).
Does anyone know more about these strings, or is this just rumor/bad 
information?
cheers, trj
 

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Post French and Pre Weiss: what shall we call it?

[theoj89294]

How about just calling it late 11-course literature? ...just a thought: 
inclusive of anything up to and including Kellner, exclusive of 13 course 
literature (which encompasses most Galant?)
trj






-Original Message-
From: Daniel Shoskes dshos...@mac.com
To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sun, Sep 12, 2010 8:37 am
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Post French and Pre Weiss: what shall we call it?


Having spent much happy time on my 11 course lute playing the music of Reusner, 
Conradi, Kellner, Weichenberger and St. Luc, it dawns on me that we don't 
really 
have a good descriptor for the period. It is after the French precieux and 
Brise 
styles (but has some elements), brings in more of a cantabile Italian 
relationship between melody and bass line but doesn't go all the way to the 
Gallant emphasis on melody (I am sure I have made many a musicologist cringe 
with my oversimplifications here). Many recordings that include pieces from the 
period are titled German Baroque Lute Music, or something similar, but that 
of 
course doesn't give a fair geographic representation to the Czech, Silesian, 
Swedish and Belgian composers. Transitional would be a good descriptive term 
but alas has already been coapted by those funny tuning systems between 
Renaissance and d minor. 

Any ideas?

Danny



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[LUTE-BUILDER] Warwick Frei plans?

[theoj89294]

Are there plans drawn and available for the Warwick Frei lute?


I note that the English lute society has plans based on a Frei:
http://www.lutesoc.co.uk/pages/catalogue
http://www.lutesoc.co.uk/uploads/catalogue/Plans,%2010,11%20course.jpg


And the Guild of American Luthiers has a plan based on a 1530 Frei
http://www.luth.org/plans/lutes.htm


But do these have the shape of the Warwick Frei? 
It seems (from looking at lees-than-optimal old photos) that the two Frei's in 
the Kunsthisthoriches museum, Vienna, have slightly more rounded bodies, 
whereas the Warwick body has less-curved sides. Is this accurate? 
Thanks
trj

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[LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public) libraries?

[theoj89294]

The libraries need money to continue their important work. 
There are persons scattered around the world with keen interest in having some 
of these libraries' holdings digitized (such as lute enthusiasts).
Wouldn't it be the best of both worlds if groups of enthusiasts could 
'organize': Through  the miracle of the internet, a central site could have  
enthusiasts 'vote' on which manuscripts would be the highest priority to 
digitize and offer online. A person, or entity could negotiate a monetary 
amount for that digitization with said library, enthusiasts could contribute 
toward this cost, and, voila, the desired manuscript is available. 
As mentioned below, this still offers the possibility of a publisher publishing 
with scholarly editorials, concordances, etc.
It could be a win - win - win.
Is it possible?
trj





-Original Message-
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
To: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thu, Nov 11, 2010 11:02 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public) libraries?



 So then, what is the reason of the difference between the way British
 Library acts and how for example the great Munich Library does? There are
 even many lute mss. in the Munich free scans already! Perhaps more
 capitalism and market economy in the UK? Less funding to culture?

Short answer - Yes.   the Uk is a cultural desert inhabited mainly by 
Philistines.

 Arto

 PS Luckily our network of 'friends in lute' often helps!  :-))

Yes - what would we do without it.

Monica


 On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 20:25:39 -, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
 wrote:
 Hi Donna

You have said it all.   Easier said than done.   And even if the
British Library do start digitizing things they wont start with lute
manuscripts, still less with baroque guitar manuscripts.

We will just have to go on paying upfront for photocopies and
mircrofilms.



Monica





- Original Message -

From: [1]Ron Andrico

To: [2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk

Cc: [3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu

Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 6:48 PM

Subject: RE: [LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public)
libraries?

  (Donna here) Thanks, Monica. My last day job was digitizing
  materials for Cornell's Rare  Manuscript Library, and my response
  to this thread became so long-winded that Ron suggested it should be
  a blog post.  So be it:
  [4]http://mignarda.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/just-put-it-all-online/
   Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:02:51 +
   To: [5]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   CC: [6]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   From: [7]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public)
  libraries?
  
   As a retired librarian it seems to me that everyone will be better
  off if
   you have your way except the poor old libraries and librarians who
  need
   money to keep their heads above water. Without us there wouldn't
  be any
   books available or a decent place to read them. Why should people
  make
   money out of doing an edition or even publishing a facsimile but
  the not the
   people and organizations who
   have made sure that these things are preserved in the first place?
  
   In any case even a facsimile is not a substitute for seeing the
  real thing.
  
   Monica
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:33 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public)
  libraries?
  
  
Although I understand all of the issues, including compensating
  ppl
for their time, charging money for facsimiles is basically evil,
  and
in the long run everyone will be better served by having more
  music
available--more concerts, more audience, more work.
What all libraries should do is just put it all online, and then
  if
someone wants to make an edition and sell it, fine. Just make a
  PDF,
and upload it, and I guarantee that everyone will benefit.
This also prevents players from owning a repertory by limiting
  access.
   
If scholars want to sell the commentary as a separate book, that
  is
also fine, and continues an established tradition.
dt
   
   
   
At 12:32 PM 11/10/2010, you wrote:
Still something that I don't get:
   
why are some public (public) libraries slowly making all their
  MS
available as a digital download - and I'm thinking about the
  the
Bayerisch Staatsbibliothek here in Munich, between others -,
  while
there are other PUBLIC libraries (hello, British Library ...) -
  that
still do not even 

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Galant definition

[theoj89294]

Could anyone help me understand the definition of 'Galant' music? 
Does it refer only to lute music, or to the period/style. 
What are its characteristics - if they can be summed up?
Which composers would be considered most typical of Galant style?
Thanks for helping a enthusiastic beginner further appreciate such a great 
literature.
trj
 

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] B-lute christmas music w/voice?

[theoj89294]

I almost hate to ask this, but I had a request to accompany a singer in a 
holiday program, so:
Does anyone know of any christmas or winter seasonal music - baroque or 
traditional - arranged/tabbed for voice (pref mezzo-soprano)   baroque lute.
I've never tried to accompany a singer on b-lute, but I used to do it on 
ren-lute quite a lot - I don't know what to expect.

Cheers,
trj


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[LUTE] Re: mac - any other?

[theoj89294]

Are there any native mac programs (for the intel based macs) to write lute tab? 
(rather than running windows on a mac)


trj




BTW: I have VMware Fusion on my mac, and HIGHLY recommend VMware over their 
competitor, but still would rather work in mac OS if possible






   Anyone out there who might be a fronimo user know of a mac program
  that reads fronimo files - just got a mac = any suggestions
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References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


 


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[LUTE] Re: Newsidler's Lamora, Benedictus, La Bernadina Unnecessarie Zen

[theoj89294]

Recent neurophysiologic studies confirm that just imagining the movements in 
your mind fires neurons in the motor cortex and facilitates the motor learning 
of complex movements. Many athletes and musicians instinctively 'practice' this 
way - by just imagining the movement -  it speeds the acquisition of these 
motor skills but must best be done with focused attention and detailed imagery. 
.  ..talk about zen.
tj




-Original Message-
From: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net
To: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:07 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Newsidler's Lamora, Benedictus, La Bernadina  Unnecessarie 
Zen


I have another take on this. Study slowly and precisely. Streamlining
the motion of both hands. In other words, know what the fingers do,
get rid of superfluous movements and work on muscle memory. Slowly,
don't speed up. Don't fall into the trap of studying your mistakes.
Chop the runs into groups of 4 notes (or whatever is appropriate) and
think of each group of four notes as a unit. Study the unit. String
the units together. The speed up. This can go remarkably fast, the
speeding up that is. I think it has to do, my theory anyway, with how
fast we can think. Speeding up the metronome, but remainign to think
about every note individually, will have an upper limit in thinking,
an upper limit in control. When thinking of four notes as one unit, we
can suddenly think, or control, the music at quadruple speed.

David

...it is most necessarie to handle the lute often, yet never but 
when thy genius favours thee, that is, when thou feelest thyself 
inclyned to musicke: For there is a certaine natural disposition, for 
learning the arts naturally infused into us, and shewing in us rather 
at one time than another, which if one will provoke by immoderate 
labor, he shall fight against Nature. Therefore when thou shalt finde 
thy selfe aptlie disposed, and hast time and opportunitie, spare no 
paynes, yet keepe this course.

Chuse one lesson thy selfe according to thy capacitie, which give not 
over by looking over others, or straggling from one to another, till 
thou have got it reasonably perfect, and doe not onely beginne it by 
going through it to the end at first sight, but EXAMINE EACH PART OF 
IT DILIGENTLY, AND STAY UPON ANY ONE POINT (THOUGH THOU PLAY IT OVER 
A THOUSAND TIMES) until thou get it in some sort. The like you shall 
doe in all parts of the said song, till you shall finde your selfe 
prettily seene in it.

.I dare promise you faithfully and without deceit, that nothing is 
more fit to second this businesse than patience in the beginning: for 
nothing can be gotten in an instant, and you must not thinke to play 
your lessons presently (perfectly?) at first sight, for that is 
impossible. Wherefore take no other care but onely to strike all the 
Griffes (chords?) and Notes and notes that are in the middle betwixt 
them well and plainely, though slowly: for within a while, whether 
you will or no, you will get a habit of swiftness. Neither can you 
get that cleere expressing of Notes, unlesse you doe use your selfe 
to that in the beginning; which cleane delivery every man that 
favours Musicke, doth farre preferre before all the swiftness and 
unreasonable noyse that can be.

Take this for a farewell: that this divine Art, which at this time is 
by so great men followed, ought to be used by thee with that great 
gracefulnesse which is fit for learned men to use, and with a kinde 
of majestie: yea, so that thou have any skill in it be not ashamed at 
the request of honest friends to shew thy cunning: but if thou 
chancest to get an habit of perfection, prophane not the Goddesse, 
with making thy selfe cheape for a sleight gaine.

Dr. J.B. Besardo, Varietie of Lute Lessons 1610
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