Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 17, 2011, at 12:52 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote: > A template is a means, not an end. As soon as you finish tailoring the > sketch of a document (using the class that you've chosen) to your > likes, then you're good to go: start writing and filling it up with > actual content. When you finish writing the document and you're ready > to submit it, if you are happy with the looks of the final output and > anticipate to create such documents later, _then_ you may consider > carving out of it a template, put it into the LyX templates folder (or > any other folder, for the matter), and re-use whenever the needs > arise. Thanks, Liviu. I was assuming that a template might be developed incrementally starting from a document formatted with one of the classes. E.g., I have been formatting and printing drafts of sections of a paper that I'm working on. So far, each time I go to print a draft, I have to reformat it from scratch. I was hoping that I would be able to save the format each time so it would be available for the next printing, and that with periodic tweaks I could gradually work my way toward a format that required minimal tweaking. As I read you, you're saying it only makes sense to create a template from a complete/final draft document. I guess part of what's going on is that it's easier me to think of formatting in relation to content, and I assumed that with LyX I could easily check the effect of particular formatting instructions. No? Something else that may be relevant is that I don't write in LyX. I write elsewhere and import into LyX for formatting and printing. Regards, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
Hello On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > > OK, I have a simple document, of a kind I create frequently. I've selected a > document class -- koma-script article -- as a basis on which to begin > building a template, have made some changes to the document, and have saved a > copy of it in the templates folder. > > I am not certain that is sufficient to make it a template. It doesn't look > like a template, certainly not like the ones that come with LyX. It has > content. I've barely started working toward the formatting I'd eventually > like to become standard for documents produced with this "template". > > Nor am I certain I know to use it as a template. Till now I've been importing > documents compiled to LaTeX from Scrivener. May be mistaken, but I don't > believe I can import such a document into a template. How do I get it into my > "template"? > Perhaps we were a bit cryptic about the value of templates. A template is a means, not an end. As soon as you finish tailoring the sketch of a document (using the class that you've chosen) to your likes, then you're good to go: start writing and filling it up with actual content. When you finish writing the document and you're ready to submit it, if you are happy with the looks of the final output and anticipate to create such documents later, _then_ you may consider carving out of it a template, put it into the LyX templates folder (or any other folder, for the matter), and re-use whenever the needs arise. Again, templates are optional. If you manage to create a sketch (of a document) that you like, then go on and write up the entire document. Later on decide if you need it as a template. Cheers Liviu > I've worked my way through the tutorial. I've read through the user guide and > skimmed it reasonably carefully again before beginning to compose this > message. Help would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > -- > Eric Weir > Decatur, GA USA > eew...@bellsouth.net > > > > -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
OK, I have a simple document, of a kind I create frequently. I've selected a document class -- koma-script article -- as a basis on which to begin building a template, have made some changes to the document, and have saved a copy of it in the templates folder. I am not certain that is sufficient to make it a template. It doesn't look like a template, certainly not like the ones that come with LyX. It has content. I've barely started working toward the formatting I'd eventually like to become standard for documents produced with this "template". Nor am I certain I know to use it as a template. Till now I've been importing documents compiled to LaTeX from Scrivener. May be mistaken, but I don't believe I can import such a document into a template. How do I get it into my "template"? I've worked my way through the tutorial. I've read through the user guide and skimmed it reasonably carefully again before beginning to compose this message. Help would be appreciated. Thanks, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 14, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote: > Another source of documentation may be the templates and examples > folders shipped with LyX. They will often contain templates for the > various document classes available. Start with File > New from > template. Yes, I noticed that about the templates and have had them in mind, but I'd forgotten about the examples. [Which is evident from the fact that I said it'd be nice if there were some. Well there are!] I just checked out the simplecv example. It is simple, and it looks like I might be able to modify it into one type of document that I commonly create without a great deal of difficult, i.e., into a template, not a new class. In checking out parameters in document > settings it would be helpful if the actual default values for the class were displayed instead of just "default." To get them I guess I'll have to locate the original document class document. [Or just see what effects changes have in LyX!] Thanks, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 14, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote: > On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Eric Weir wrote: >> Reconfigure seems to have helped. I now have five koma classes. And many >> other new ones. However -- and I don't if this matters -- in the huge list >> revealed in tools > tex information > latex classes koma is still missing. >> > Some times Tools > Reconfigure and Tools > TeX info > Rescan are not > in sync. Try hitting 'rescan', too; but if what you're trying to do > works, then don't worry about the TeX info thingy. They may be in better sync than first appeared. As Richard pointed out, the koma classes all have names beginning with src, or apparently all. I have several of those in the tools > tex info > latex classes. So maybe I do have the full koma class after all. > In addition to reading more carefully, as suggested by Liviu, I guess I need > to find a class that appears somewhat relevant to my needs and get started > seeing what I can do with it. I think I can do that now. >> > > Rob has a book cooking, on Open Source Writing Tools, and to my > knowledge it will include some extensive info on LyX and on (a subset > of) the various LaTeX classes available, with their drawbacks, > advantages and intended usage. > > Additionally, should it be of any help, you can also check the 'LyX > Essentials' [1], which is a brief introduction to creating a first > document in LyX. > [1] https://sites.google.com/site/tsewiki/resources/latex Thanks for the references. The latter might help, and sounds like the former definitely would. Sincerely, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > I think I'm gonna go with koma, Trevor. For one, the documentation strikes > me as excellent. Certainly compared to memoir. > Another source of documentation may be the templates and examples folders shipped with LyX. They will often contain templates for the various document classes available. Start with File > New from template. Liviu
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > Reconfigure seems to have helped. I now have five koma classes. And many > other new ones. However -- and I don't if this matters -- in the huge list > revealed in tools > tex information > latex classes koma is still missing. > Some times Tools > Reconfigure and Tools > TeX info > Rescan are not in sync. Try hitting 'rescan', too; but if what you're trying to do works, then don't worry about the TeX info thingy. > In addition to reading more carefully, as suggested by Liviu, I guess I need > to find a class that appears somewhat relevant to my needs and get started > seeing what I can do with it. I think I can do that now. > Rob has a book cooking, on Open Source Writing Tools, and to my knowledge it will include some extensive info on LyX and on (a subset of) the various LaTeX classes available, with their drawbacks, advantages and intended usage. Additionally, should it be of any help, you can also check the 'LyX Essentials' [1], which is a brief introduction to creating a first document in LyX. [1] https://sites.google.com/site/tsewiki/resources/latex Regards Liviu
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:23:36 PM Trevor Jenkins wrote: > On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > > On Jul 14, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > :-) That's why the documentation on Troubleshooters.Com is so > : > >> important. It assumes few prerequisites. > > > > I do recall there being significant content at your site related > > to LaTeX, Steve, but I don't find it when I mouse over the links > > on the home page. Must be deeper in? > > So still some prerequisites being assumed then. > > Regards, Trevor. Yes. The person has to know how to use a computer. They have to know something about how to use a wordprocessor (for want of a better word, but even familiarity with MS Word. The person should have had a little experience with some computer programming, even if it's excel macros or something, so he/she can understand what I'm saying about LaTeX. And the person must have an open mind. But in my opinion, LyX or LaTeX experience isn't essential for using the LyX docs on my website. SteveT Steve Litt Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:19:31 PM you wrote: > On Jul 14, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:42:09 AM Trevor Jenkins wrote: > >> Sadly this seems to be the modern tradition. Documentation, if > >> it even exists, is targeted to the advanced user or the class > >> author themselves. Other users especially those trying to get > >> started are overlooked. LyX has the tutorial document, which is > >> a good start. LaTeX has been around for so long that beginners' > >> documentation is rarely provided; we are all assumed to be > >> experts. > >> > > :-) That's why the documentation on Troubleshooters.Com is so > > > > important. It assumes few prerequisites. > > I do recall there being significant content at your site related to > LaTeX, Steve, but I don't find it when I mouse over the links on > the home page. Must be deeper in? That's good information. People might be missing my stuff. At Troubleshooters.Com, click Linux->Linux_desktop->Office_apps->LyX. HTH SteveT Steve Litt Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > > On Jul 14, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > > :-) That's why the documentation on Troubleshooters.Com is so >> important. It assumes few prerequisites. >> > > I do recall there being significant content at your site related to LaTeX, > Steve, but I don't find it when I mouse over the links on the home page. > Must be deeper in? > So still some prerequisites being assumed then. Regards, Trevor. <>< Re: deemed!
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 14, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > On Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:42:09 AM Trevor Jenkins wrote: >> >> Sadly this seems to be the modern tradition. Documentation, if it >> even exists, is targeted to the advanced user or the class author >> themselves. Other users especially those trying to get started are >> overlooked. LyX has the tutorial document, which is a good start. >> LaTeX has been around for so long that beginners' documentation is >> rarely provided; we are all assumed to be experts. > > :-) That's why the documentation on Troubleshooters.Com is so > important. It assumes few prerequisites. I do recall there being significant content at your site related to LaTeX, Steve, but I don't find it when I mouse over the links on the home page. Must be deeper in? -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 14, 2011, at 11:49 AM, Richard Heck wrote: >> Reconfigure seems to have helped. I now have five koma classes. And many >> other new ones. However -- and I don't if this matters -- in the huge list >> revealed in tools > tex information > latex classes koma is still missing. >> > > These classes have names like: scrartcl.cls, scrbook.cls, etc. Don't ask > me why. Thanks, Richard. In checking out koma I did notice reference to those names. I see there are seven classes in that list that begin with the letters "src". It may be that reconfiguring has made them all available to me in document > settings. At least there are several more than previously. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 14, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Richard Heck wrote: > n 07/13/2011 08:58 PM, Eric Weir wrote: >> >> >> I'm intrigued by both memoir and koma. And maybe the standard classes are as >> good a place to start? >> >> The documentation for memoir [memman] is forbidding, for koma [scrguien] >> much less so. The former does not even obviously address installation. >> > > These classes should be installed automatically with your TeX > distribution. If not, then I presume whatever OSX thing you are using > has some kind of GUI for doing this. I don't know Mac, though. Reconfiguring, as suggested by Stephan, helped, Richard. I now have several koma classes. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 14, 2011, at 11:42 AM, Trevor Jenkins wrote: > On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 1:58 AM, Eric Weir wrote: > > The documentation for memoir [memman] is forbidding, for koma [scrguien] much > less so. > > Sadly this seems to be the modern tradition. Documentation, if it even > exists, is targeted to the advanced user or the class author themselves. > Other users especially those trying to get started are overlooked. LyX has > the tutorial document, which is a good start. LaTeX has been around for so > long that beginners' documentation is rarely provided; we are all assumed to > be experts. I think I'm gonna go with koma, Trevor. For one, the documentation strikes me as excellent. Certainly compared to memoir. Don't remember where I accessed them at the moment, or which ones, but I did take a look at a few class documents. There were a couple relatively simple ones that I could make rough sense of. Many were overwhelming. I'd like to have at least some idea what I'm working with, and to be able to refer back to the class document while I'm working with it to see if I can learn how it works. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:42:09 AM Trevor Jenkins wrote: > On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 1:58 AM, Eric Weir > wrote: > > The documentation for memoir [memman] is forbidding, for koma > [scrguien] > > > much less so. > > Sadly this seems to be the modern tradition. Documentation, if it > even exists, is targeted to the advanced user or the class author > themselves. Other users especially those trying to get started are > overlooked. LyX has the tutorial document, which is a good start. > LaTeX has been around for so long that beginners' documentation is > rarely provided; we are all assumed to be experts. :-) That's why the documentation on Troubleshooters.Com is so important. It assumes few prerequisites. SteveT > > Regards, Trevor. > > <>< Re: deemed! -- Steve Litt Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On 07/14/2011 11:42 AM, Eric Weir wrote: > >>> Through documents > settings > document class I see a collection of >>> document classes. Many are identified as unavailable. Through tools > tex >>> information > latex classes I see a huge list of classes. Are these >>> available for use in LyX? If not, how do I make them available? Koma-script >>> is not among them. How do I get it included. >> You may try to reconfigure: LyX -> Reconfigure. >> >> I have document class "book (Koma-Script)" available. >> Which classes are available depends on your LaTeX installation. > Reconfigure seems to have helped. I now have five koma classes. And many > other new ones. However -- and I don't if this matters -- in the huge list > revealed in tools > tex information > latex classes koma is still missing. > These classes have names like: scrartcl.cls, scrbook.cls, etc. Don't ask me why. rh
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 14, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Stephan Witt wrote: > Am 14.07.2011 um 15:18 schrieb Eric Weir: > >> I've found the LyX layouts folder. In >> /applications/lyx.app/resources/layouts. > > Are you sure? It should be /Applications/LyX.app/Contents/Resources/layouts. Thanks, Stephan. I was careless. >> Through documents > settings > document class I see a collection of document >> classes. Many are identified as unavailable. Through tools > tex information >> > latex classes I see a huge list of classes. Are these available for use in >> LyX? If not, how do I make them available? Koma-script is not among them. >> How do I get it included. > > You may try to reconfigure: LyX -> Reconfigure. > > I have document class "book (Koma-Script)" available. > Which classes are available depends on your LaTeX installation. Reconfigure seems to have helped. I now have five koma classes. And many other new ones. However -- and I don't if this matters -- in the huge list revealed in tools > tex information > latex classes koma is still missing. >> I see how to use a template. How do I use a layout? How do I use a document >> class? > > AFAIK, you choose a document class not a layout. Thanks again. That helps. In addition to reading more carefully, as suggested by Liviu, I guess I need to find a class that appears somewhat relevant to my needs and get started seeing what I can do with it. I think I can do that now. Sincerely, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 1:58 AM, Eric Weir wrote: The documentation for memoir [memman] is forbidding, for koma [scrguien] > much less so. Sadly this seems to be the modern tradition. Documentation, if it even exists, is targeted to the advanced user or the class author themselves. Other users especially those trying to get started are overlooked. LyX has the tutorial document, which is a good start. LaTeX has been around for so long that beginners' documentation is rarely provided; we are all assumed to be experts. Regards, Trevor. <>< Re: deemed!
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On 07/13/2011 08:58 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > >> The sort of thing >> you want to do would probably be quite easy with the memoir class, or >> perhaps with one of the koma-script classes (probably the article one, >> since it looks as if you do not need chapters here), all of which >> provide "hooks" for customizing the appearance of the headings, title, >> etc. Both of these have extensive documentation (memman.pdf, >> scrguien.pdf), and various people here have plenty of experience with >> these classes. > I'm intrigued by both memoir and koma. And maybe the standard classes are as > good a place to start? > > The documentation for memoir [memman] is forbidding, for koma [scrguien] much > less so. The former does not even obviously address installation. > These classes should be installed automatically with your TeX distribution. If not, then I presume whatever OSX thing you are using has some kind of GUI for doing this. I don't know Mac, though. Richard
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 14, 2011, at 10:47 AM, Liviu Andronic wrote: > Most of your questions should already be answered in either of these > three documents in Help: Intro, Tutorial and User's Guide. (For > example, User's Guide > Section 3.1.2.2 explains why some classes > would be tagged as 'unavailable'.) If you still have questions after > reading them (and re-reading, if necessary), please post back here. Thanks, Liviu. I'll reread, and reread more carefully. Sincerely, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
Am 14.07.2011 um 15:18 schrieb Eric Weir: > > I've found the LyX layouts folder. In /applications/lyx.app/resources/layouts. Are you sure? It should be /Applications/LyX.app/Contents/Resources/layouts. > How do I make use of them? Through documents > settings? If so, where exactly? > > Through documents > settings > document class I see a collection of document > classes. Many are identified as unavailable. Through tools > tex information > > latex classes I see a huge list of classes. Are these available for use in > LyX? If not, how do I make them available? Koma-script is not among them. How > do I get it included. You may try to reconfigure: LyX -> Reconfigure. I have document class "book (Koma-Script)" available. Which classes are available depends on your LaTeX installation. > I see how to use a template. How do I use a layout? How do I use a document > class? AFAIK, you choose a document class not a layout. You may find information about that in the Customization manual "5.2 Types of layout files". Stephan
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
Hello On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > > I've found the LyX layouts folder. In > /applications/lyx.app/resources/layouts. How do I make use of them? Through > documents > settings? If so, where exactly? > > Through documents > settings > document class I see a collection of document > classes. Many are identified as unavailable. Through tools > tex information > > latex classes I see a huge list of classes. Are these available for use in > LyX? If not, how do I make them available? Koma-script is not among them. How > do I get it included. > > I see how to use a template. How do I use a layout? How do I use a document > class? > A document class is a LaTeX package. A layout is file that allows LyX to understand that LaTeX document class. (For the moment, don't worry about *.layout files; you use them automatically.) To use a given LaTeX class select it in Document > Settings > Class. If koma-script is unavailable, you need to install the appropriate LaTeX package (the LyX layout should already be available on your system). Most of your questions should already be answered in either of these three documents in Help: Intro, Tutorial and User's Guide. (For example, User's Guide > Section 3.1.2.2 explains why some classes would be tagged as 'unavailable'.) If you still have questions after reading them (and re-reading, if necessary), please post back here. Liviu > Thanks, > -- > Eric Weir > Decatur, GA USA > eew...@bellsouth.net > > > > > -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
I've found the LyX layouts folder. In /applications/lyx.app/resources/layouts. How do I make use of them? Through documents > settings? If so, where exactly? Through documents > settings > document class I see a collection of document classes. Many are identified as unavailable. Through tools > tex information > latex classes I see a huge list of classes. Are these available for use in LyX? If not, how do I make them available? Koma-script is not among them. How do I get it included. I see how to use a template. How do I use a layout? How do I use a document class? Thanks, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 13, 2011, at 6:15 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote: > Soon they will be, we all hope. Rob has made some progress on his > LyX-Outline project [1], which intends to provide LyX with some of the > features of Scrivener, including a corkboard and a fancier outline > pane. At the moment the code can be tested, but fingers crossed for a > future beta release. Transition from Scrivener to LaTeX is pretty nearly seamless, at least in my limited experience of it, which I've already acknowledged is very limited. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 13, 2011, at 6:08 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote: > To modify aspects of your documents you do not need to create new > 'layouts'. You can take a class, create the backbone of your desired > document (also by taking into account your personal idiosyncrasies, as > far as LyX and LaTeX let you to), and save it as a template (say, > 'template_101.lyx'). Then you can re-use this template as many times > as you want. Thank you again, Liviu. As can be seen in my other responses, I've been wondering if that might not be a possible way to get where I want to go. Sincerely, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 13, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote: > Default LaTeX classes as a > benchmark for a well typeset document is probably a good start; then > you can sharpen some rough edges, here and there, often by using some > other LaTeX packages or functionalities. Or you can leave things as > they are, and they'll still be better than Word output. Thanks, Liviu. Guidance well taken. Sincerely, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 13, 2011, at 10:19 AM, Trevor Jenkins wrote: > I'm a Mac user too and make extensive use of both Scrivener and LyX/LaTeX. > But they are no competitive products. LyX is at the end of the pre-press > cycle; it's about presentation Thanks for the guidance, Trevor. I'm with you 100 percent -- except for being an absolute novice regarding LyX/LaTeX. For longer writing projects Scrivener is my application of choice, for its design, the way it works, the way it supports extended writing, and for the generous and helpful support available from the developer and the user community. I have not thought of LyZ as a replacement, or even as a writing tool, but just exactly the way you described it, for the presentation of the work when the writing is over. > As an aside I use Journler as a "commonplace book" for keeping quotations, > reflections and general ideas prior to writing documents. When writing a > document I copy-and-paste the quotes from Journler to Scrivener I thought I knew about all the free-form database applications there were, but I've never heard of this one. I haven't found anything that's really satisfactory. I've had fairly long experience with a little self-contained, browser-based wiki, but support for it for me is problemmatic. I've just started experimenting with a wiki plugin for the editor Vim. I don't have a good sense yet how well it's going to work for me. > Remember though that the final presentation of your document has little to do > with LyX itself and everything to do with LaTeX. If you want to create your > own presentation formats then concentrate on that first. Then adapt LyX to > support your requirements. I had thought that as a front-end for LaTeX LyX would be a way for me to get started with LaTeX, and to create styles for the mainly simple kinds of documents I create. Maybe not. Regards, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
> On Jul 13, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Richard Heck wrote: > >> >> >> >> On 07/13/2011 09:34 AM, Eric Weir wrote: >> >> Where do I start? Perhaps better, how do I go about creating a layout for a >> document type. >> > This is an advanced matter Hadn't considered that, Richard. I assumed starting with simple document types it might not be so difficult. On the other hand, maybe what I'm talking about is not writing layouts but creating templates. Is it possible this might not even require looking at layouts? > The sort of thing > you want to do would probably be quite easy with the memoir class, or > perhaps with one of the koma-script classes (probably the article one, > since it looks as if you do not need chapters here), all of which > provide "hooks" for customizing the appearance of the headings, title, > etc. Both of these have extensive documentation (memman.pdf, > scrguien.pdf), and various people here have plenty of experience with > these classes. I'm intrigued by both memoir and koma. And maybe the standard classes are as good a place to start? The documentation for memoir [memman] is forbidding, for koma [scrguien] much less so. The former does not even obviously address installation. > As I said, that is the LaTeX side of things. On the LyX side, you have > to write a layout file for your new class. If it's based on the > koma-script article class, scrartcl.cls, say, then this is fairly easy. > Let's say your new class is myclass.cls. Then you copy scrartcl.layout > to myclass.layout and make a few modifications, so the document looks in > LyX kind of like it looks when printed. In my poking around on my system I have yet to come across a file with a layout extension. Where might I find them? And again, might simply creating templates in LyX accomplish what I need, at least for the short run, while I gradually learn more about LaTeX? Regards, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Trevor Jenkins wrote: > I'm a Mac user too and make extensive use of both Scrivener and LyX/LaTeX. > But they are no competitive products. > Soon they will be, we all hope. Rob has made some progress on his LyX-Outline project [1], which intends to provide LyX with some of the features of Scrivener, including a corkboard and a fancier outline pane. At the moment the code can be tested, but fingers crossed for a future beta release. Regards Liviu [1] http://www.oak-tree.us/lyx-outline/
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > My writing is mostly letters, memos, short to medium length reports, and > longer projects including proposals and articles. I always keep formatting to > the simplest minimum possible. I would like to make the break and actually > start using LyX/LaTeX, focusing initially on shorter documents. So far this > has involved importing text or LaTeX coded documents into LyX, modifying the > format to suit my tastes using the menu and toolbar. My ability to make > documents look the way I want them to is limited. In addition, I have to > start from scratch with each document. I am not developing what I think in > LyX/LaTeX are called "layouts" that could be used repeatedly. > To modify aspects of your documents you do not need to create new 'layouts'. You can take a class, create the backbone of your desired document (also by taking into account your personal idiosyncrasies, as far as LyX and LaTeX let you to), and save it as a template (say, 'template_101.lyx'). Then you can re-use this template as many times as you want. Liviu
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Richard Heck wrote: > Word and its ilk have made people think they can do creative > typesetting, when in fact what they tend to do is make a mess of things. > I personally think it's a *good* thing that LyX does not make this easy. > I agree. I prefer LyX primarily because it knows (via LaTeX) how to nicely typeset things simply by using default settings. A related reason is that Word (et al.) sucks at typesetting even when you know what you do. And as a general rule of thumb I suck at typesetting documents (along with ~99% of Word users). Default LaTeX classes as a benchmark for a well typeset document is probably a good start; then you can sharpen some rough edges, here and there, often by using some other LaTeX packages or functionalities. Or you can leave things as they are, and they'll still be better than Word output. Regards Liviu
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On Jul 13, 2011, at 1:58 PM, Richard Heck wrote: > On 07/13/2011 10:48 AM, Torquil Macdonald Sørensen wrote: >> On 13/07/11 16:38, Anders Host-Madsen wrote: My ability to make documents look the way I want them to is limited. >>> >>> In my personal opinion, this is the weakness of LaTeX/LyX. >>> LaTeX is great when you write for a medium >>> with a defined formatting, e.g., a journal, and they give you a >>> style file to use. Then you just fill out the >>> contents. But if you a free to format your document, and have >>> specific ideas on how it should look like, it's >>> not that convenient. I found the easiest way is to use >>> LaTeX packages such as enumitem, fancyhdr, and >>> titlesec. Once you have formatted one document, you >>> can use it as template for following documents. >>> >> >> Not to imply that LyX is lacking in any way in this area (simply >> because I don't know), but I know that LyX is at least great for >> people like me, who are completely content to use a >> basic/default/ordinary LaTeX formatting :-) I just use it in order to >> have the power of LaTeX with less difficulty and better readability >> while I write. >> >> So I'm glad that I can automatically get a great looking document >> without having to do any "formatting work". >> > Let's put it this way: If you want every document you write to look > different, then LaTeX is not your tool. But if you want to write (edit, > publish) a lot of documents that look pretty much the same, then LaTeX > is exactly your tool. Of course there are times for creative > presentation, and there are other tools for that. But LyX (to return to > it) is intended primarily for academic and technical writing, where > content is the main thing and presentation is secondary, and most of us > are perfectly happy to have a fairly small number of choices as far as > presentation is concerned. Thanks Richard, Torquil, and Anders, I think Richard has described my case. I routinely create only a few types of documents. I mentioned them in my original post. My formatting is as simple as I can make it, with sensitivity primarily to alerting readers to transitions and producing a neat not unattractive document. My formatting preferences are definitely minimalist. I have no interesting in making every document look different. I've finished the tutorial, even the math section, though the likelihood that I will ever need to format any formulas or equations is slim. My thought now is to check out classes for the simplest types of documents from at least a couple families. I would not be surprised that one of the letter classes could be tweaked into the simplest type of document I create, which I also described in my original post, and then saved as a template. That would solve the problem of a large portion of my writing. The thought is that I could then gradually work into those that are only slightly more complicated. I suspect my greatest challenge will be learning to do citations and bibliography, especially getting a references/citations/bibliography manager to work together with LyX. [In that connection does LyX work with BibDesk? My understanding is that it is simply a Mac front-end for BibTex.] Regarding checking out the different families of document classes, I am familiar with Koma and Memoir. There are a few Koma document classes in my LyX installations and only one from Memoir. That surprises me, since I have the full TeX Live package, and my understanding was that it left nothing out. How do I make it available? And are there other families besides these two that I might check out? One last comment, an anxiety I have about tweaking document classes arising from my very limited experience actually using LyX: I have found it difficult to get changes to stick, e.g., using paragraph settings to specify single spacing, left alignment, and no indenting. Thanks again. Sincerely, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On 07/13/2011 10:48 AM, Torquil Macdonald Sørensen wrote: > On 13/07/11 16:38, Anders Host-Madsen wrote: >>> My ability to make documents look the way I want them to is limited. >> >> In my personal opinion, this is the weakness of LaTeX/LyX. >> LaTeX is great when you write for a medium >> with a defined formatting, e.g., a journal, and they give you a >> style file to use. Then you just fill out the >> contents. But if you a free to format your document, and have >> specific ideas on how it should look like, it's >> not that convenient. I found the easiest way is to use >> LaTeX packages such as enumitem, fancyhdr, and >> titlesec. Once you have formatted one document, you >> can use it as template for following documents. >> > > Not to imply that LyX is lacking in any way in this area (simply > because I don't know), but I know that LyX is at least great for > people like me, who are completely content to use a > basic/default/ordinary LaTeX formatting :-) I just use it in order to > have the power of LaTeX with less difficulty and better readability > while I write. > > So I'm glad that I can automatically get a great looking document > without having to do any "formatting work". > Let's put it this way: If you want every document you write to look different, then LaTeX is not your tool. But if you want to write (edit, publish) a lot of documents that look pretty much the same, then LaTeX is exactly your tool. Of course there are times for creative presentation, and there are other tools for that. But LyX (to return to it) is intended primarily for academic and technical writing, where content is the main thing and presentation is secondary, and most of us are perfectly happy to have a fairly small number of choices as far as presentation is concerned. Word and its ilk have made people think they can do creative typesetting, when in fact what they tend to do is make a mess of things. I personally think it's a *good* thing that LyX does not make this easy. Richard
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On 13/07/11 16:38, Anders Host-Madsen wrote: My ability to make documents look the way I want them to is limited. In my personal opinion, this is the weakness of LaTeX/LyX. LaTeX is great when you write for a medium with a defined formatting, e.g., a journal, and they give you a style file to use. Then you just fill out the contents. But if you a free to format your document, and have specific ideas on how it should look like, it's not that convenient. I found the easiest way is to use LaTeX packages such as enumitem, fancyhdr, and titlesec. Once you have formatted one document, you can use it as template for following documents. Not to imply that LyX is lacking in any way in this area (simply because I don't know), but I know that LyX is at least great for people like me, who are completely content to use a basic/default/ordinary LaTeX formatting :-) I just use it in order to have the power of LaTeX with less difficulty and better readability while I write. So I'm glad that I can automatically get a great looking document without having to do any "formatting work". - Torquil
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
> My ability to make documents look the way I want them to is limited. In my personal opinion, this is the weakness of LaTeX/LyX. LaTeX is great when you write for a medium with a defined formatting, e.g., a journal, and they give you a style file to use. Then you just fill out the contents. But if you a free to format your document, and have specific ideas on how it should look like, it's not that convenient. I found the easiest way is to use LaTeX packages such as enumitem, fancyhdr, and titlesec. Once you have formatted one document, you can use it as template for following documents.
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
I'm a Mac user too and make extensive use of both Scrivener and LyX/LaTeX. But they are no competitive products. LyX is at the end of the pre-press cycle; it's about presentation. Don't get me wrong its f***ing good presentation given that LaTeX is behind it but none the less it's primarily about presentation. Scrivener is near the beginning through to almost the end of that cycle. It is for research, for organisation, for establishing logical flow though the document. I wouldn't use LyX for any of those tasks because it maintains the entire text on the screen at all times even with the (unless I'm away from my Mac-based intranet and LyX is all I have). More than once my use of Scrivener has made me realise that I'm duplicating something in the narrative flow of the document (through using the corkboard or outliner displays). The Navigate menu in LyX is not a patch on neither can it hold a candle up to Scriveners corkboard and outliner modes. The document binder means it is trivial to restructure a document. There's also the GUI issue. LyX is a portable product. Scrivener was written for Mac OS X and is (has been) tightly coupled to it. Being a Mac zealot I find LyX menus, structures and personalisation more difficult to adapt to on Macs. As a product it does what it is supposed to and does it well enough in an OS X environment (certainly better than than having to run the X server as other writing tools would require) but I wouldn't use LyX as my primary writing tool. Scrivener is that tool and from it I Multimarkdown the near-completed document for a final burnish with LyX before publication. This Mac OS X-ness may change with the recent announcement that Scrivener now exists in a Windows version. As an aside I use Journler as a "commonplace book" for keeping quotations, reflections and general ideas prior to writing documents. When writing a document I copy-and-paste the quotes from Journler to Scrivener. Some quotes and reflections never get out of the commonplace setting but they ready for me to access. Sadly Journler is no longer maintained. Again I wouldn't be without LyX for what it does but I don't beleive it is a tool that covers the entire writing task. Keep both I say and make the best of Lyx and of Scrivener. Remember though that the final presentation of your document has little to do with LyX itself and everything to do with LaTeX. If you want to create your own presentation formats then concentrate on that first. Then adapt LyX to support your requirements. Personally I concentrate on the document content and leave the presentation to the defaults of the various LaTeX document classes I have available (everything from TeXlive 2010 in fact). On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > > I have been dancing around moving to LyX/LaTeX for formatting and printing > documents. I have the MacTeX installation of the full TeX Live package and > LyX 2.0. For longer writing projects I use Scrivener, which can compile > Multimarkdown encoded documents to LaTeX. I am a complete novice regarding > LyX/LaTeX, having completed about half of the LyX tutorial, and tried > importing, formatting and printing a few simple shorter and longer > documents. I plan to devote the day to completing the tutorial. > > My writing is mostly letters, memos, short to medium length reports, and > longer projects including proposals and articles. I always keep formatting > to the simplest minimum possible. I would like to make the break and > actually start using LyX/LaTeX, focusing initially on shorter documents. So > far this has involved importing text or LaTeX coded documents into LyX, > modifying the format to suit my tastes using the menu and toolbar. My > ability to make documents look the way I want them to is limited. In > addition, I have to start from scratch with each document. I am not > developing what I think in LyX/LaTeX are called "layouts" that could be used > repeatedly. > > I am conscious of the fact that this may be the kind of excessively broad > question that makes it difficult for knowledgeable people to be helpful. > Nevertheless, since I am to a large extent at a loss regarding the answer I > will ask it: Where do I start? Perhaps better, how do I go about creating a > layout for a document type. At this point the document would be very simple, > e.g., a few pages, a flush left title with up to three lines of single > spaced bold text using the same font only slightly larger than the body > text, and a few flush left bolded section heads using the same font the same > size as the body text. > > I understand that to getting conversant with LyX/LaTeX will require more > than a little reading and study. My experience with software has been that I > learn best in the context of trying to actually use the software. > > If anyone can venture a suggestion that would help me get going I would be > very grateful. > > Sincerely, > > ---
Re: Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
On 07/13/2011 09:34 AM, Eric Weir wrote: > I am conscious of the fact that this may be the kind of excessively broad > question that makes it difficult for knowledgeable people to be helpful. > Nevertheless, since I am to a large extent at a loss regarding the answer I > will ask it: Where do I start? Perhaps better, how do I go about creating a > layout for a document type. At this point the document would be very simple, > e.g., a few pages, a flush left title with up to three lines of single spaced > bold text using the same font only slightly larger than the body text, and a > few flush left bolded section heads using the same font the same size as the > body text. > This is an advanced matter. I'd guess that very few LyX users ever venture into writing full layouts for documents; I'd even guess that most never write any layout at all, even simple modules. Rather, most LyX users choose a document class and let it do the formatting for them, without worrying too much about how the document looks, precisely. Of course, if you're self-publishing a book, or typesetting one for a publisher, or whatever, you have different sorts of requirements. I recently had to write a document class for a book I'm publishing with Oxford University Press, for example. It had to match, more or less, the specifications for one of their book designs. It took a while to get right, but now I have it, and others can use it, too. LyX uses LaTeX to do all the formatting, so customizing document appearance means getting one's hands dirty with LaTeX. The sort of thing you want to do would probably be quite easy with the memoir class, or perhaps with one of the koma-script classes (probably the article one, since it looks as if you do not need chapters here), all of which provide "hooks" for customizing the appearance of the headings, title, etc. Both of these have extensive documentation (memman.pdf, scrguien.pdf), and various people here have plenty of experience with these classes. (Not me.) You can also ask questions on comp.text.tex. As I said, that is the LaTeX side of things. On the LyX side, you have to write a layout file for your new class. If it's based on the koma-script article class, scrartcl.cls, say, then this is fairly easy. Let's say your new class is myclass.cls. Then you copy scrartcl.layout to myclass.layout and make a few modifications, so the document looks in LyX kind of like it looks when printed. In fact, you do not even have to make those modifications, if you don't want to do so. How things look in LyX does not control how they look when printed. If they look different in LyX, oh well. This part is documented in LyX's Customization manual. Richard
Guidance in starting to use LyX/LaTex
I have been dancing around moving to LyX/LaTeX for formatting and printing documents. I have the MacTeX installation of the full TeX Live package and LyX 2.0. For longer writing projects I use Scrivener, which can compile Multimarkdown encoded documents to LaTeX. I am a complete novice regarding LyX/LaTeX, having completed about half of the LyX tutorial, and tried importing, formatting and printing a few simple shorter and longer documents. I plan to devote the day to completing the tutorial. My writing is mostly letters, memos, short to medium length reports, and longer projects including proposals and articles. I always keep formatting to the simplest minimum possible. I would like to make the break and actually start using LyX/LaTeX, focusing initially on shorter documents. So far this has involved importing text or LaTeX coded documents into LyX, modifying the format to suit my tastes using the menu and toolbar. My ability to make documents look the way I want them to is limited. In addition, I have to start from scratch with each document. I am not developing what I think in LyX/LaTeX are called "layouts" that could be used repeatedly. I am conscious of the fact that this may be the kind of excessively broad question that makes it difficult for knowledgeable people to be helpful. Nevertheless, since I am to a large extent at a loss regarding the answer I will ask it: Where do I start? Perhaps better, how do I go about creating a layout for a document type. At this point the document would be very simple, e.g., a few pages, a flush left title with up to three lines of single spaced bold text using the same font only slightly larger than the body text, and a few flush left bolded section heads using the same font the same size as the body text. I understand that to getting conversant with LyX/LaTeX will require more than a little reading and study. My experience with software has been that I learn best in the context of trying to actually use the software. If anyone can venture a suggestion that would help me get going I would be very grateful. Sincerely, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net