Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Chris Menzel]

On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 5:13 PM Dr Eberhard W Lisse  wrote:

> Please don't argue unnecessary points,


Well, our judgments differ as to relevance. :-)

Finding an ARM Linux is an issue for itself, as is installing it,
> finding a recent version of LaTeX for it and keep this all current.
>

I'm afraid this is just misinformation on every point. There are ARM
versions of Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, and Kali, among others, and installing
any of them under Parallels is a complete no-brainer — basically point and
click, as Parallels offers them to the user in their installation
assistant. And every distro has an update daemon that keeps the user
completely current (and this is of course also easily done manually with a
simple terminal command or two). The Kali maintainers, in particular,
are really on the ball; the LyX package was updated to 2.3.7 almost
immediately after the release. And as for keeping TeX/LaTeX up to date,
here is the version output for pdflatex on my just-now updated version of
MacTeX (with some boilerplate removed):

$ pdftex --version
pdfTeX 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.24 (TeX Live 2022)
kpathsea version 6.3.4
Compiled with libpng 1.6.37; using libpng 1.6.37
Compiled with zlib 1.2.11; using zlib 1.2.11
Compiled with xpdf version 4.03

And here is the output of the same command under my just-now updated
version of Kali Linux:

$ pdftex --version
pdfTeX 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.24 (TeX Live 2022/Debian)
kpathsea version 6.3.4
Compiled with libpng 1.6.39; using libpng 1.6.39
Compiled with zlib 1.2.13; using zlib 1.2.13
Compiled with xpdf version 4.04

Note the version numbers are identical; the only difference is that the
Linux version was compiled using slightly more current libraries. :-)

Makes even less sense for this small issue, for which there is s simple
> workaround and which I am confident will be fixed soon.
>

It makes very good sense if you've already got Parallels installed,
especially if you are working on a document with lots of graphics. My
suggestion wasn't meant as universal advice but simply as another
possibility that a few folks might find helpful. There is rarely just One
Right Way to do things.

I have been using Virtual Box on an Intel iMac (for many years) as my
> practice software runs on (Intel) Windows only.  They have an early beta
> for ARM, but for if and when I have to replace the iMac (with an ARM
> iMini or Studio)


>From what I've been seeing, a Mac Mini together with a 27" LG 4K monitor
would be a much better choice than an iMac, both re cost and performance.
That's what I plan to go with when my beloved 2014 iMac is no longer viable.


> But, make no mistake, nothing else will be installed on that thingy, I
> will not use Microsoft products if there is any way around it and would
> not dream of even trying LyX on Windows.
>

I'm happy that works for you. I used a Dell laptop for a while a few years
back when Mac hardware development was in a terrible doldrums and found
Windows 11 to be quite good (especially with the Linux subsystem activated)
and LyX on Windows worked just fine, basically as well as it does under
MacOS (although neither can match the performance of LyX under Linux).

Cheers!

-chris
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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Dr Eberhard W Lisse]

I always have an iTerm2 window open with a number of tabs (and
different directories) and open almost every LyX file from the command
line. That makes copying and pasting the path for graphics quite easy
and as I said I haven't been using the file browser much.

el

On 23/01/2023 23:43, Stephen Buonopane wrote:
[...]
> In general if one “copies” or “drags" a file from Finder into a text
> based application (eg Terminal) you get the path and file name.  Even
> works using the little icon in title bar of most apps (eg Preview).
> This has worked for on the order of 10 years.
[...]

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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Dr Eberhard W Lisse]

Please don't argue unnecessary points, on the ARM Intel can not be
virtualized only emulated as you rightly say.

Finding an ARM Linux is an issue for itself, as is installing it,
finding a recent version of LaTeX for it and keep this all current.

Makes even less sense for this small issue, for which there is s simple
workaround and which I am confident will be fixed soon.

I have been using Virtual Box on an Intel iMac (for many years) as my
practice software runs on (Intel) Windows only.  They have an early beta
for ARM, but for if and when I have to replace the iMac (with an ARM
iMini or Studio) I rather have gotten me a small form factor Intel box,
which I will install RSN and then run headless with RustDesk or VNC even
while I still have the Intel box so I get experience.

But, make no mistake, nothing else will be installed on that thingy, I
will not use Microsoft products if there is any way around it and would
not dream of even trying LyX on Windows.

el


On 23/01/2023 16:01, Christopher Menzel wrote:
[...]
> Virtualization is not emulation. An emulator (like WINE) makes use of a
> software bridge to simulate a different hardware environment, with a
> high cost in performance; software running on an emulator interacts with
> the bridge, not directly with the hardware. Software running in a
> Parallels VM runs directly on the native hardware at native, or near
> native, speeds. On a Mac running Apple Silicon, you create an native Arm
> VM with Parallels and you install an Arm version of Linux in the VM.
> There is no emulation.
> 
>> and install Linux, of which most distributions do not have the latest
>> and greatest LyX and or TeX(live)
> 
> So you find one that does (e.g., Kali and, soon, Fedora), easy-peasy.
> It’s also super easy to compile the latest and greatest source
> yourself under Linux (not that that’s everyone’s cup o’ tea).
> 
>> to fix a bug that is almost certainly going to be fixed soon and can
>> be reasonably easily circumvented until then?
> 
> Well, I admit that I didn’t say so explicitly, but I wasn’t really
> suggesting that one purchase and install Parallels /just/ to fix the
> bug (which /hopefully/ is going to be fixed soon — though if it isn’t,
> it won’t be Stephan’s fault, it will be due to some deeper problem
> with MacOS).  I was assuming that one might have Parallels installed
> already or have independent reasons for purchasing it.  For such
> folks, the VM solution (even if temporary) seems to me to be a
> reasonable one.
> 
>> Makes no sense to me, whatsoever.
> 
> Hope it makes at least a bit of sense to you now. ;-)
[...]

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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Very good catch Stephan! It works perfectly.
I have had this problem with the settings window too for sometime. 


> On 25 Jan 2023, at 18:39, Stephan Witt  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> another report with a similar problem is here: 
> https://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/10047
> 
> Now I could reproduce the problem on Ventura 13.2. It is the LyX:Graphics 
> dialog not being on anymore after click on Open.
> 
> I’ve placed a series of images to demonstrate the issue here:
> https://my.hidrive.com/share/cgcp53ay2p
> 
> To workaround the issue please place the LyX:Graphics popup slightly above or 
> below the lyx main window to have the opportunity to get it frontmost again.
> 
> I’ll have a look for a fix to this problem. Sorry for the inconvenience.
> 
> Best regards,
> Stephan
> 
>> Am 21.01.2023 um 22:16 schrieb markhsalmon :
>> 
>> This works for me- I think - I have to physically put the file location  in 
>> the graphic insert box and not use browse and it gets the graphics file now. 
>> On screen looks fuzzy but formats perfectly in pdf. I upgraded to Ventura at 
>> the same time as upgrading to 2.3.7 which was dumb but this looks more like 
>> a file location recognition issue now to me. Thanks so much for your help - 
>> it’s not solved but a work around exists which is an enormous relief- 
>> Thanks! This surely must be a Lyx issue … with Ventura. I had to upgrade to 
>> Ventura for other reasons related to Dropbox. 
>> Thanks again 
>> Mark 
>> 
>> 
>> The more you know, the more you realise how little you know
>> 
>>> On 21 Jan 2023, at 21:02, Christopher Menzel  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Udi wrote:
 I think this bug is already reported here, it seems that you can enter the 
 Unix file path into the "File:" field manually. 
 
 It's not a perfect solution, but it might solve your problem in the 
 meantime.
>>> 
>>> Can confirm.
>>> 
>>> This definitely appears to be a Ventura thing. I can’t insert graphics on 
>>> my 2021 MacBook Pro using either 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7 but both versions work 
>>> just fine on my old iMac under Big Sur. You can mitigate the pain of the 
>>> kludgy workaround a little bit by locating your desired graphic in the 
>>> Finder, right clicking and selecting “Get Info”. This will bring up an info 
>>> window that contains the full Unix path to the containing directory that 
>>> you can copy and paste into the “file:” field in the LyX pop-up for 
>>> inserting graphics. You’ll still have to type in the file name, but the 
>>> process is still easier than typing in the whole path, especially if you 
>>> use cloud storage, which buries your files pretty deeply under your home 
>>> directory.
>>> 
>>> Alternatively, run LyX under Linux in a Parallels VM — it’s quite a bit 
>>> faster than the MacOS universal binary and doesn’t suffer from this bug.
>>> 
>>> -chris
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> lyx-users mailing list
>>> lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
>>> http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
>> -- 
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>> http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
> 
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—

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Advisor to the Minister of Education, Youth, and Sports of Cambodia
Expertise France

ទីប្រឹក្សាឯកឧត្តមបណ្ឌិតសភាចារ្យរដ្ឋមន្ត្រីក្រសួងអប់រំ យុវជន និងកីឡា 
(ជំនាញការនៃប្រទេសបារាំង)


On temporary leave from 
University of Bordeaux


#80 Preah Norodom Boulevard
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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[mark salmon]

THANK YOU! Stephan
best
Mark

On 25/01/2023 11:39, Stephan Witt wrote:

Hi all,

another report with a similar problem is 
here:https://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/10047

Now I could reproduce the problem on Ventura 13.2. It is the LyX:Graphics 
dialog not being on anymore after click on Open.

I’ve placed a series of images to demonstrate the issue here:
https://my.hidrive.com/share/cgcp53ay2p

To workaround the issue please place the LyX:Graphics popup slightly above or 
below the lyx main window to have the opportunity to get it frontmost again.

I’ll have a look for a fix to this problem. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Best regards,
Stephan


Am 21.01.2023 um 22:16 schrieb markhsalmon:

This works for me- I think - I have to physically put the file location  in the 
graphic insert box and not use browse and it gets the graphics file now. On 
screen looks fuzzy but formats perfectly in pdf. I upgraded to Ventura at the 
same time as upgrading to 2.3.7 which was dumb but this looks more like a file 
location recognition issue now to me. Thanks so much for your help - it’s not 
solved but a work around exists which is an enormous relief- Thanks! This 
surely must be a Lyx issue … with Ventura. I had to upgrade to Ventura for 
other reasons related to Dropbox.
Thanks again
Mark


The more you know, the more you realise how little you know


On 21 Jan 2023, at 21:02, Christopher Menzel  wrote:


Udi wrote:

I think this bug is already reported here, it seems that you can enter the Unix file path 
into the "File:" field manually.

It's not a perfect solution, but it might solve your problem in the meantime.

Can confirm.

This definitely appears to be a Ventura thing. I can’t insert graphics on my 
2021 MacBook Pro using either 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7 but both versions work just fine 
on my old iMac under Big Sur. You can mitigate the pain of the kludgy 
workaround a little bit by locating your desired graphic in the Finder, right 
clicking and selecting “Get Info”. This will bring up an info window that 
contains the full Unix path to the containing directory that you can copy and 
paste into the “file:”  field in the LyX pop-up for inserting graphics. You’ll 
still have to type in the file name, but the process is still easier than 
typing in the whole path, especially if you use cloud storage, which buries 
your files pretty deeply under your home directory.

Alternatively, run LyX under Linux in a Parallels VM — it’s quite a bit faster 
than the MacOS universal binary and doesn’t suffer from this bug.

-chris

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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Stephan Witt]

Hi all,

another report with a similar problem is here: 
https://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/10047

Now I could reproduce the problem on Ventura 13.2. It is the LyX:Graphics 
dialog not being on anymore after click on Open.

I’ve placed a series of images to demonstrate the issue here:
https://my.hidrive.com/share/cgcp53ay2p

To workaround the issue please place the LyX:Graphics popup slightly above or 
below the lyx main window to have the opportunity to get it frontmost again.

I’ll have a look for a fix to this problem. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Best regards,
Stephan

> Am 21.01.2023 um 22:16 schrieb markhsalmon :
> 
> This works for me- I think - I have to physically put the file location  in 
> the graphic insert box and not use browse and it gets the graphics file now. 
> On screen looks fuzzy but formats perfectly in pdf. I upgraded to Ventura at 
> the same time as upgrading to 2.3.7 which was dumb but this looks more like a 
> file location recognition issue now to me. Thanks so much for your help - 
> it’s not solved but a work around exists which is an enormous relief- Thanks! 
> This surely must be a Lyx issue … with Ventura. I had to upgrade to Ventura 
> for other reasons related to Dropbox. 
> Thanks again 
> Mark 
> 
> 
> The more you know, the more you realise how little you know
> 
>> On 21 Jan 2023, at 21:02, Christopher Menzel  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Udi wrote:
>>> I think this bug is already reported here, it seems that you can enter the 
>>> Unix file path into the "File:" field manually. 
>>> 
>>> It's not a perfect solution, but it might solve your problem in the 
>>> meantime.
>> 
>> Can confirm.
>> 
>> This definitely appears to be a Ventura thing. I can’t insert graphics on my 
>> 2021 MacBook Pro using either 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7 but both versions work just 
>> fine on my old iMac under Big Sur. You can mitigate the pain of the kludgy 
>> workaround a little bit by locating your desired graphic in the Finder, 
>> right clicking and selecting “Get Info”. This will bring up an info window 
>> that contains the full Unix path to the containing directory that you can 
>> copy and paste into the “file:” field in the LyX pop-up for inserting 
>> graphics. You’ll still have to type in the file name, but the process is 
>> still easier than typing in the whole path, especially if you use cloud 
>> storage, which buries your files pretty deeply under your home directory.
>> 
>> Alternatively, run LyX under Linux in a Parallels VM — it’s quite a bit 
>> faster than the MacOS universal binary and doesn’t suffer from this bug.
>> 
>> -chris
>> 
>> -- 
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>> http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Stephen Buonopane]

> On Jan 23, 2023, at 3:19 PM, Chris Menzel  wrote:
> 
> For those of you facing this issue, here are two other ways to copy the full 
> path and file name, which I think are fewer mouse clicks than opening the Get 
> Info..
> 
> 1) In the Finder, right click on the file to bring up the contextual menu. 
> Then press the option key. You will then see Copy “my file.pdf” change to 
> Copy “my file.pdf” as Pathname. Paste into LyX Insert Graphics file field. 
> Includes full path and file name. 
> 
> Holy smoke, I've been using MacOS since OS X 10.0 and (I'm embarrassed to 
> admit) I didn't know about this! It's massively better than my suggestion, 
> obviously. Any idea how long it's been around?

No idea. I have been using an automator script for this for the last 5 years or 
so. (Highly doubt it was there from OS X day one.)
In general if one “copies” or “drags" a file from Finder into a text based 
application (eg Terminal) you get the path and file name. Even works using the 
little icon in title bar of most apps (eg Preview). This has worked for on the 
order of 10 years.  


> 
> Just to note, I found another workaround for users of the fantastic utility 
> Launchbar that doesn't require using the Finder at all. If you call up 
> Launchbar with your hotkey, typing a few characters unique to your graphic's 
> filename will bring the filename up in your Launchbar window. Hitting 
> right-arrow or Ctrl-F will then bring up a list where the second item is the 
> full pathname for the file, which can be copied to the clipboard with a Cmd-C.
> 
> -chris 

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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Chris Menzel]

>
> For those of you facing this issue, here are two other ways to copy the
> full path and file name, which I think are fewer mouse clicks than opening
> the Get Info..
>
> 1) In the Finder, right click on the file to bring up the contextual menu.
> Then press the option key. You will then see Copy “my file.pdf” change to
> Copy “my file.pdf” as Pathname. Paste into LyX Insert Graphics file field.
> Includes full path and file name.
>

Holy smoke, I've been using MacOS since OS X 10.0 and (I'm embarrassed to
admit) I didn't know about this! It's massively better than my suggestion,
obviously. Any idea how long it's been around?

Just to note, I found another workaround for users of the fantastic utility
Launchbar that doesn't require using the Finder at all. If you call up
Launchbar with your hotkey, typing a few characters unique to your
graphic's filename will bring the filename up in your Launchbar window.
Hitting right-arrow or Ctrl-F will then bring up a list where the second
item is the full pathname for the file, which can be copied to the
clipboard with a Cmd-C.

-chris
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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Stephen Buonopane]

> On Jan 21, 2023, at 4:02 PM, Christopher Menzel  
> wrote:
> 
> Udi wrote:
>> I think this bug is already reported here 
>> , it seems that you can enter the 
>> Unix file path into the "File:" field manually. 
>> 
>> It's not a perfect solution, but it might solve your problem in the meantime.
> 
> Can confirm.
> 
> This definitely appears to be a Ventura thing. I can’t insert graphics on my 
> 2021 MacBook Pro using either 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7 but both versions work just 
> fine on my old iMac under Big Sur. You can mitigate the pain of the kludgy 
> workaround a little bit by locating your desired graphic in the Finder, right 
> clicking and selecting “Get Info”. This will bring up an info window that 
> contains the full Unix path to the containing directory that you can copy and 
> paste into the “file:” field in the LyX pop-up for inserting graphics. You’ll 
> still have to type in the file name, but the process is still easier than 
> typing in the whole path, especially if you use cloud storage, which buries 
> your files pretty deeply under your home directory.

For those of you facing this issue, here are two other ways to copy the full 
path and file name, which I think are fewer mouse clicks than opening the Get 
Info..

1) In the Finder, right click on the file to bring up the contextual menu. Then 
press the option key. You will then see Copy “my file.pdf” change to Copy “my 
file.pdf” as Pathname. Paste into LyX Insert Graphics file field. Includes full 
path and file name. 

2) Make an Automator script for the above, so it shows up in the “Services” 
contextual menu.  Described here for an earlier version of MacOS
https://automationpanda.com/2017/09/07/copying-file-paths-from-finder-in-macos/ 

 Then you can just right click and select your automation script without the 
need to press the option key.

(I am not on Ventura yet, so I am assuming these still work in Ventura).

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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Christopher Menzel]

I stand corrected!

I confess I never used it and — obviously! — never learned what “WINE” stood 
for. (And kudos for a very nice self-referential acronym!)

-chris

> On Jan 23, 2023, at 8:41 AM, Lorenzo Bertini  
> wrote:
> 
> On 23/01/23 15:01, Christopher Menzel wrote:
>> Virtualization is not emulation. An emulator (like WINE) makes use of a 
>> software bridge to simulate a different hardware environment, with a high 
>> cost in performance; software running on an emulator interacts with the 
>> bridge, not directly with the hardware.
> Completely off-topic, but from wikipedia:
>> Wine (formerly a recursive backronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator" [...]) is 
>> a free and open-source compatibility layer [...]
>> Wine provides its compatibility layer for Windows runtime system which 
>> translates Windows API calls into POSIX API calls, recreating the directory 
>> structure of Windows, and providing alternative implementations of Windows 
>> system libraries, system services through wineserver and various other 
>> components [...].
> 
> Wine can, and often will, run at higher than native speeds, compared to a 
> same machine with Windows.

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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Lorenzo Bertini]

On 23/01/23 15:01, Christopher Menzel wrote:
Virtualization is not emulation. An emulator (like WINE) makes use of a 
software bridge to simulate a different hardware environment, with a 
high cost in performance; software running on an emulator interacts with 
the bridge, not directly with the hardware.

Completely off-topic, but from wikipedia:

Wine (formerly a recursive backronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator" [...]) is a 
free and open-source compatibility layer [...]
Wine provides its compatibility layer for Windows runtime system which 
translates Windows API calls into POSIX API calls, recreating the directory 
structure of Windows, and providing alternative implementations of Windows 
system libraries, system services through wineserver and various other 
components [...].


Wine can, and often will, run at higher than native speeds, compared to 
a same machine with Windows.

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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Christopher Menzel]

On Jan 23, 2023, at 7:09 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse  wrote:
> Why would I try and install a VM on an M1 (ie an EMULATOR for a
> different processor)

Virtualization is not emulation. An emulator (like WINE) makes use of a 
software bridge to simulate a different hardware environment, with a high cost 
in performance; software running on an emulator interacts with the bridge, not 
directly with the hardware. Software running in a Parallels VM runs directly on 
the native hardware at native, or near native, speeds. On a Mac running Apple 
Silicon, you create an native Arm VM with Parallels and you install an Arm 
version of Linux in the VM. There is no emulation.

> and install Linux, of which most distributions do
> not have the latest and greatest LyX and or TeX(live)

So you find one that does (e.g., Kali and, soon, Fedora), easy-peasy. It’s also 
super easy to compile the latest and greatest source yourself under Linux (not 
that that’s everyone’s cup o’ tea).

> to fix a bug that
> is almost certainly going to be fixed soon and can be reasonably easily
> circumvented until then?

Well, I admit that I didn’t say so explicitly, but I wasn’t really suggesting 
that one purchase and install Parallels just to fix the bug (which hopefully is 
going to be fixed soon — though if it isn’t, it won’t be Stephan’s fault, it 
will be due to some deeper problem with MacOS). I was assuming that one might 
have Parallels installed already or have independent reasons for purchasing it. 
For such folks, the VM solution (even if temporary) seems to me to be a 
reasonable one.

> Makes no sense to me, whatsoever.

Hope it makes at least a bit of sense to you now. ;-)

-chris

> On 22/01/2023 20:21, Christopher Menzel wrote:
> [...]
>>> The alternative proposed here makes not sense whatsoever to me,
>>> especially on an M1. The (speed) limiting factor is LaTeX (in
>>> particular LuLaTeX).
>> 
>> I /guess/ you are talking about my suggested alternative of running
>> LyX in a Linux VM under Parallels? How does it "make no sense
>> whatever" to you to have a fast, fully-functional version of LyX that
>> does not exhibit the bug in question? (Just to note, I’ve also had LyX
>> 2.3.7 simply crash on me a couple of times under Ventura in random
>> situations, so there are apparently further problems and, hence,
>> reasons independent of this bug to run LyX in a VM.)
> [...]
>>> Universal binary in any case means that on the M1 the M1 binary runs
>>> and on the Intel the Intel binary. However, even running the Intel
>>> binary on the M1 under Rosetta makes no real difference, other than
>>> that it loads slower. But since LyX is set up to open at login I
>>> would not even care.
>> 
>> Are you saying that the bug doesn’t occur if you use a LyX Intel
>> (i.e., non-universal) binary under Ventura via Rosetta? That is not
>> the case, for either version 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7. You can’t insert a
>> graphic via the file browser in either one.
> [...]

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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Dr Eberhard Lisse]

Why would I try and install a VM on an M1 (ie an EMULATOR for a
different processor) and install Linux, of which most distributions do
not have the latest and greatest LyX and or TeX(live) to fix a bug that
is almost certainly going to be fixed soon and can be reasonably easily
circumvented until then?

Makes no sense to me, whatsoever.


I was talking about speed. I haven't tried out the intel only version
on the M1 but accept that this issue is there as well.


BTW, I do most of my work on the command line using iTerm and so
copy/paste of a graphics name is easy. However, I must confess that if
I do insert an image, I do (did) it with the file browser.


el

On 22/01/2023 20:21, Christopher Menzel wrote:
[...]
>> The alternative proposed here makes not sense whatsoever to me,
>> especially on an M1. The (speed) limiting factor is LaTeX (in
>> particular LuLaTeX).
> 
> I /guess/ you are talking about my suggested alternative of running
> LyX in a Linux VM under Parallels? How does it "make no sense
> whatever" to you to have a fast, fully-functional version of LyX that
> does not exhibit the bug in question? (Just to note, I’ve also had LyX
> 2.3.7 simply crash on me a couple of times under Ventura in random
> situations, so there are apparently further problems and, hence,
> reasons independent of this bug to run LyX in a VM.)
[...]
>> Universal binary in any case means that on the M1 the M1 binary runs
>> and on the Intel the Intel binary. However, even running the Intel
>> binary on the M1 under Rosetta makes no real difference, other than
>> that it loads slower. But since LyX is set up to open at login I
>> would not even care.
> 
> Are you saying that the bug doesn’t occur if you use a LyX Intel
> (i.e., non-universal) binary under Ventura via Rosetta? That is not
> the case, for either version 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7. You can’t insert a
> graphic via the file browser in either one.
[...]



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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Christopher Menzel]

On Jan 21, 2023, at 5:23 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse  wrote:
> On 2.3.7 and Intel 13.1, I can also not use the File Browser to insert
> graphics.  But then I haven't inserted graphics for a while.  On the
> 2.3.7 on an intel 12.6.2 I don't see that behavior.

Right, because 12.6.2 is Monterey, and what we’re dealing with appears to be a 
Ventura bug.

> The alternative proposed here makes not sense whatsoever to me,
> especially on an M1. The (speed) limiting factor is LaTeX (in
> particular LuLaTeX).

I guess you are talking about my suggested alternative of running LyX in a 
Linux VM under Parallels? How does it "make no sense whatever" to you to have a 
fast, fully-functional version of LyX that does not exhibit the bug in 
question? (Just to note, I’ve also had LyX 2.3.7 simply crash on me a couple of 
times under Ventura in random situations, so there are apparently further 
problems and, hence, reasons independent of this bug to run LyX in a VM.)

> Universal binary in any case means that on the M1 the M1 binary runs and
> on the Intel the Intel binary.  However, even running the Intel binary
> on the M1 under Rosetta makes no real difference, other than that it
> loads slower.  But since LyX is set up to open at login I would not even
> care.

Are you saying that the bug doesn’t occur if you use a LyX Intel (i.e., 
non-universal) binary under Ventura via Rosetta? That is not the case, for 
either version 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7. You can’t insert a graphic via the file 
browser in either one.

-cm

> On 21/01/2023 23:02, Christopher Menzel wrote:
> [...]
> 
>> This definitely appears to be a Ventura thing.  I can’t insert
>> graphics on my 2021 MacBook Pro using either 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7 but both
>> versions work just fine on my old iMac under Big Sur.  
>> 
>> You can mitigate the pain of the kludgy workaround a little bit by
>> locating your desired graphic in the Finder, right clicking and
>> selecting “Get Info”.  This will bring up an info window that contains
>> the full Unix path to the containing directory that you can copy and
>> paste into the “file:” field in the LyX pop-up for inserting graphics.
>> You’ll still have to type in the file name, but the process is still
>> easier than typing in the whole path, especially if you use cloud
>> storage, which buries your files pretty deeply under your home
>> directory.
>> 
>> Alternatively, run LyX under Linux in a Parallels VM — it’s quite a bit
>> faster than the MacOS universal binary and doesn’t suffer from this bug.
> [...]
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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Murat Yildizoglu]

> On 22 Jan 2023, at 09:56, Murat Yildizoglu  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> -
>> Le 22 janv. 2023 à 06:23, Dr Eberhard W Lisse  a écrit :
>> 
>> On 2.3.7 and Intel 13.1, I can also not use the File Browser to insert
>> graphics.  But then I haven't inserted graphics for a while.  On the
>> 2.3.7 on an intel 12.6.2 I don't see that behavior.
>> 
>> The alternative proposed here makes not sense whatsoever to me,
>> especially on an M1.  The (speed) limiting factor is LaTeX (in
>> particular LuLaTeX).
>> 
>> Universal binary in any case means that on the M1 the M1 binary runs and
>> on the Intel the Intel binary.  However, even running the Intel binary
>> on the M1 under Rosetta makes no real difference, other than that it
>> loads slower.  But since LyX is set up to open at login I would not even
>> care.
>> 
>> el
>> 
>> On 21/01/2023 23:02, Christopher Menzel wrote:
>> [...]
>> 
>>> This definitely appears to be a Ventura thing.  I can’t insert
>>> graphics on my 2021 MacBook Pro using either 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7 but both
>>> versions work just fine on my old iMac under Big Sur.  
>>> 
>>> You can mitigate the pain of the kludgy workaround a little bit by
>>> locating your desired graphic in the Finder, right clicking and
>>> selecting “Get Info”.  This will bring up an info window that contains
>>> the full Unix path to the containing directory that you can copy and
>>> paste into the “file:” field in the LyX pop-up for inserting graphics.
>>> You’ll still have to type in the file name, but the process is still
>>> easier than typing in the whole path, especially if you use cloud
>>> storage, which buries your files pretty deeply under your home
>>> directory.
>>> 
>>> Alternatively, run LyX under Linux in a Parallels VM — it’s quite a bit
>>> faster than the MacOS universal binary and doesn’t suffer from this bug.
>> [...]
>> 
>> -- 
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>> lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
>> http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
> 
> I have difficulty to understand the source of this problem. Does Lyx have 
> full access rights to your hard disk?

I have tried it, and now I understand your (our!) pain. It seems that I have 
never inserted a graphic since migrating to Ventura and have never met this 
problem.
LyX has full access in my case, and indeed when I select the file and push OK 
nothing happens in Lyx, the graphic box is not placed at all…
Copying in preview and pasting directly in Lyx works, so this is likely a bug 
in the file opening channel.
That is definitely annoying...



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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Murat Yildizoglu]

-
> Le 22 janv. 2023 à 06:23, Dr Eberhard W Lisse  a écrit :
> 
> On 2.3.7 and Intel 13.1, I can also not use the File Browser to insert
> graphics.  But then I haven't inserted graphics for a while.  On the
> 2.3.7 on an intel 12.6.2 I don't see that behavior.
> 
> The alternative proposed here makes not sense whatsoever to me,
> especially on an M1.  The (speed) limiting factor is LaTeX (in
> particular LuLaTeX).
> 
> Universal binary in any case means that on the M1 the M1 binary runs and
> on the Intel the Intel binary.  However, even running the Intel binary
> on the M1 under Rosetta makes no real difference, other than that it
> loads slower.  But since LyX is set up to open at login I would not even
> care.
> 
> el
> 
> On 21/01/2023 23:02, Christopher Menzel wrote:
> [...]
> 
>> This definitely appears to be a Ventura thing.  I can’t insert
>> graphics on my 2021 MacBook Pro using either 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7 but both
>> versions work just fine on my old iMac under Big Sur.  
>> 
>> You can mitigate the pain of the kludgy workaround a little bit by
>> locating your desired graphic in the Finder, right clicking and
>> selecting “Get Info”.  This will bring up an info window that contains
>> the full Unix path to the containing directory that you can copy and
>> paste into the “file:” field in the LyX pop-up for inserting graphics.
>> You’ll still have to type in the file name, but the process is still
>> easier than typing in the whole path, especially if you use cloud
>> storage, which buries your files pretty deeply under your home
>> directory.
>> 
>> Alternatively, run LyX under Linux in a Parallels VM — it’s quite a bit
>> faster than the MacOS universal binary and doesn’t suffer from this bug.
> [...]
> 
> -- 
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> lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
> http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users

I have difficulty to understand the source of this problem. Does Lyx have full 
access rights to your hard disk?
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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Dr Eberhard W Lisse]

On 2.3.7 and Intel 13.1, I can also not use the File Browser to insert
graphics.  But then I haven't inserted graphics for a while.  On the
2.3.7 on an intel 12.6.2 I don't see that behavior.

The alternative proposed here makes not sense whatsoever to me,
especially on an M1.  The (speed) limiting factor is LaTeX (in
particular LuLaTeX).

Universal binary in any case means that on the M1 the M1 binary runs and
on the Intel the Intel binary.  However, even running the Intel binary
on the M1 under Rosetta makes no real difference, other than that it
loads slower.  But since LyX is set up to open at login I would not even
care.

el

On 21/01/2023 23:02, Christopher Menzel wrote:
[...]

> This definitely appears to be a Ventura thing.  I can’t insert
> graphics on my 2021 MacBook Pro using either 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7 but both
> versions work just fine on my old iMac under Big Sur.  
> 
> You can mitigate the pain of the kludgy workaround a little bit by
> locating your desired graphic in the Finder, right clicking and
> selecting “Get Info”.  This will bring up an info window that contains
> the full Unix path to the containing directory that you can copy and
> paste into the “file:” field in the LyX pop-up for inserting graphics.
> You’ll still have to type in the file name, but the process is still
> easier than typing in the whole path, especially if you use cloud
> storage, which buries your files pretty deeply under your home
> directory.
> 
> Alternatively, run LyX under Linux in a Parallels VM — it’s quite a bit
> faster than the MacOS universal binary and doesn’t suffer from this bug.
[...]

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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[markhsalmon]

This works for me- I think - I have to physically put the file location  in the graphic insert box and not use browse and it gets the graphics file now. On screen looks fuzzy but formats perfectly in pdf. I upgraded to Ventura at the same time as upgrading to 2.3.7 which was dumb but this looks more like a file location recognition issue now to me. Thanks so much for your help - it’s not solved but a work around exists which is an enormous relief- Thanks! This surely must be a Lyx issue … with Ventura. I had to upgrade to Ventura for other reasons related to Dropbox. Thanks again Mark The more you know, the more you realise how little you knowOn 21 Jan 2023, at 21:02, Christopher Menzel  wrote:Udi wrote:I think this bug is already reported here, it seems that you can 
enter the Unix file path into the "File:" field manually. It's not a perfect solution, but it might solve your problem in the meantime.Can confirm.This definitely appears to be a Ventura thing. I can’t insert graphics on my 2021 MacBook Pro using either 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7 but both versions work just fine on my old iMac under Big Sur. You can mitigate the pain of the kludgy workaround a little bit by locating your desired graphic in the Finder, right clicking and selecting “Get Info”. This will bring up an info window that contains the full Unix path to the containing directory that you can copy and paste into the “file:” field in the LyX pop-up for inserting graphics. You’ll still have to type in the file name, but the process is still easier than typing in the whole path, especially if you use cloud storage, which buries your files pretty deeply under your home directory.Alternatively, run LyX under Linux in a Parallels VM — it’s quite a bit faster than the MacOS universal binary and doesn’t suffer from this bug.-chris-- lyx-users mailing listlyx-users@lists.lyx.orghttp://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users-- 
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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Christopher Menzel]

Udi wrote:
> I think this bug is already reported here 
> , it seems that you can enter the Unix 
> file path into the "File:" field manually. 
> 
> It's not a perfect solution, but it might solve your problem in the meantime.

Can confirm.

This definitely appears to be a Ventura thing. I can’t insert graphics on my 
2021 MacBook Pro using either 2.3.6.2 or 2.3.7 but both versions work just fine 
on my old iMac under Big Sur. You can mitigate the pain of the kludgy 
workaround a little bit by locating your desired graphic in the Finder, right 
clicking and selecting “Get Info”. This will bring up an info window that 
contains the full Unix path to the containing directory that you can copy and 
paste into the “file:” field in the LyX pop-up for inserting graphics. You’ll 
still have to type in the file name, but the process is still easier than 
typing in the whole path, especially if you use cloud storage, which buries 
your files pretty deeply under your home directory.

Alternatively, run LyX under Linux in a Parallels VM — it’s quite a bit faster 
than the MacOS universal binary and doesn’t suffer from this bug.

-chris

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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Udicoudco]

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 9:20 PM Frederic Mynard  wrote:

> I am still with 2.3.6.
> Fred
>
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 1:43 PM Richard Kimberly Heck 
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/23 13:03, Frederic Mynard wrote:
>>
>> I just updated to Ventura and hence had not realized this yet, but I just
>> checked and I have the exact same issue (Mac Mini M1). I’m also using LyX
>> among others for lecture notes, so this is a critical issue for me too.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your guidance in addressing this.
>>
>> CCing Stephan, our Mac expert.
>>
>> Has either of you tried downgrading to 2.3.6? It would be good to know if
>> this is a new problem or another Ventura problem.
>>
>> Riki
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *lyx-users 
>>  on behalf of mark salmon
>>  
>> *Date: *Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 11:38 AM
>> *To: *lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
>> 
>> *Subject: *Ventura graphics Mac
>>
>> I have just upgraded to ventura on an Imac- as far as I know I have
>> resolved the gatekeeper and python issues but one problem remains- if
>> anyone can help me please? I can no longer insert graphics in lyx
>> documents- this is critical for my lecture notes and really urgent. I do
>> example the same as before and am running with lyx 2.3.7 and ventura 13.1.
>>  Graphics already within the document are not affected  and still there
>> but I can no longer browse and click on the graphic to get ta new graph
>> copied into the Lyx document!! Seems to be a problem with Lyx /ventura not
>> recognising the clicked link??? any help please please.
>> Thank you
>> Mark
>>
>> --
>>
>> The more we know, the more we realise how little we know.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 
>> Richard Kimberly (Riki) Heck
>> Professor of Philosophy
>> Brown University
>>
>> Pronouns: they/them/their
>>
>> Website: http://rkheck.frege.org/
>> Blog:http://rikiheck.blogspot.com/
>> Amazon:  http://amazon.com/author/richardgheckjr
>> Google Scholar:  https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=QUKBG6EJ
>> ORCID:   http://orcid.org/-0002-2961-2663
>> Research Gate:   https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Richard_Heck
>>
>>
>  I think this bug is already reported here
, it seems that you can enter the
Unix file path into the "File:" field manually.

It's not a perfect solution, but it might solve your problem in the
meantime.

Regards,
Udi



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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Frederic Mynard]

I am still with 2.3.6.
Fred

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 1:43 PM Richard Kimberly Heck 
wrote:

> On 1/21/23 13:03, Frederic Mynard wrote:
>
> I just updated to Ventura and hence had not realized this yet, but I just
> checked and I have the exact same issue (Mac Mini M1). I’m also using LyX
> among others for lecture notes, so this is a critical issue for me too.
>
> Thanks in advance for your guidance in addressing this.
>
> CCing Stephan, our Mac expert.
>
> Has either of you tried downgrading to 2.3.6? It would be good to know if
> this is a new problem or another Ventura problem.
>
> Riki
>
>
>
>
> *From: *lyx-users 
>  on behalf of mark salmon
>  
> *Date: *Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 11:38 AM
> *To: *lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
> 
> *Subject: *Ventura graphics Mac
>
> I have just upgraded to ventura on an Imac- as far as I know I have
> resolved the gatekeeper and python issues but one problem remains- if
> anyone can help me please? I can no longer insert graphics in lyx
> documents- this is critical for my lecture notes and really urgent. I do
> example the same as before and am running with lyx 2.3.7 and ventura 13.1.
>  Graphics already within the document are not affected  and still there
> but I can no longer browse and click on the graphic to get ta new graph
> copied into the Lyx document!! Seems to be a problem with Lyx /ventura not
> recognising the clicked link??? any help please please.
> Thank you
> Mark
>
> --
>
> The more we know, the more we realise how little we know.
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Richard Kimberly (Riki) Heck
> Professor of Philosophy
> Brown University
>
> Pronouns: they/them/their
>
> Website: http://rkheck.frege.org/
> Blog:http://rikiheck.blogspot.com/
> Amazon:  http://amazon.com/author/richardgheckjr
> Google Scholar:  https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=QUKBG6EJ
> ORCID:   http://orcid.org/-0002-2961-2663
> Research Gate:   https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Richard_Heck
>
>
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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 1/21/23 13:03, Frederic Mynard wrote:


I just updated to Ventura and hence had not realized this yet, but I 
just checked and I have the exact same issue (Mac Mini M1). I’m also 
using LyX among others for lecture notes, so this is a critical issue 
for me too.


Thanks in advance for your guidance in addressing this.


CCing Stephan, our Mac expert.

Has either of you tried downgrading to 2.3.6? It would be good to know 
if this is a new problem or another Ventura problem.


Riki


*From: *lyx-users  on behalf of mark 
salmon 

*Date: *Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 11:38 AM
*To: *lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
*Subject: *Ventura graphics Mac

I have just upgraded to ventura on an Imac- as far as I know I have 
resolved the gatekeeper and python issues but one problem remains- if 
anyone can help me please? I can no longer insert graphics in lyx 
documents- this is critical for my lecture notes and really urgent. I 
do example the same as before and am running with lyx 2.3.7 and 
ventura 13.1.
 Graphics already within the document are not affected  and still 
there but I can no longer browse and click on the graphic to get ta 
new graph copied into the Lyx document!! Seems to be a problem with 
Lyx /ventura not recognising the clicked link??? any help please please.

Thank you
Mark

--
The more we know, the more we realise how little we know.



--

Richard Kimberly (Riki) Heck
Professor of Philosophy
Brown University

Pronouns: they/them/their

Website:http://rkheck.frege.org/
Blog:http://rikiheck.blogspot.com/
Amazon:http://amazon.com/author/richardgheckjr
Google Scholar:https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=QUKBG6EJ
ORCID:http://orcid.org/-0002-2961-2663
Research Gate:https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Richard_Heck
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Re: Ventura graphics Mac

[Frederic Mynard]

I just updated to Ventura and hence had not realized this yet, but I just 
checked and I have the exact same issue (Mac Mini M1). I’m also using LyX among 
others for lecture notes, so this is a critical issue for me too.
Thanks in advance for your guidance in addressing this.
Fred


From: lyx-users  on behalf of mark salmon 

Date: Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 11:38 AM
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Subject: Ventura graphics Mac
I have just upgraded to ventura on an Imac- as far as I know I have resolved 
the gatekeeper and python issues but one problem remains- if anyone can help me 
please? I can no longer insert graphics in lyx documents- this is critical for 
my lecture notes and really urgent. I do example the same as before and am 
running with lyx 2.3.7 and ventura 13.1.
 Graphics already within the document are not affected  and still there but I 
can no longer browse and click on the graphic to get ta new graph copied into 
the Lyx document!! Seems to be a problem with Lyx /ventura not recognising the 
clicked link??? any help please please.
Thank you
Mark


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