Re: [M100] Talking over serial port

[Stephen Adolph]

The M100 native display has some important non standard control codes.

Supposing you could read inbound characters on the serial port, the egress
flow could be  "almost VT100" for display purposes.

A really useful project would be to modify a terminal program to speak the
custom M100 display codes.  This would allow a PC to really emulate a
proper DVI video.

The codes and what they do are well definedthis is what I have
implemented in that MVT100 hardware adapter, and what both the VT100 driver
and REX# supports.

Side comment.   Even with all the extended codes that a true VT100
supports, there seems to be no way to make a VT100 properly handle a few of
the M100 control codes.

..steve


On Thursday, October 6, 2022, Mike Stein  wrote:

> Doesn't Steve's program handle the display part? Hooking the RS-232
> receive into the keyboard vector should also not be too difficult but as
> you say, what's the point?
>
> I don't recall whether the M100 has it (ISTR that it does) but some
> systems have a built-in function, usually CTL-P that echoes everything on
> the display to the printer (not just one screen like PRINT), which could in
> turn be redirected to the com port and fed to a terminal program
>
> m
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 3:05 PM John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 11:47 AM Brian K. White 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 2. Can I run M100 stuff from my remote?
>>>
>>>
>>> What?
>>>
>>>
>> I guess he means display what the M100 displays on the host and route
>> characters sent from the host to the keyboard buffer of the M100.
>>
>> It could be done... it would require a program on the M100 side.
>>
>> Not sure of its utility though.
>>
>> Another idea would be using a host PC as a large display for the M100.
>>
>> So, say you have the M100 configured for 80x24, and a 80x24 xterminal or
>> putty window on the PC displaying its output. Bytes and display codes
>> routed out the serial port, with character set and control code mapping.
>>
>> Kind of like a simple DVI or VGA adapter.
>>
>> At a high baud rate, I'd guess it would be more performant than the
>> native display.
>>
>> -- John.
>>
>

Re: [M100] Talking over serial port

[Mike Stein]

Doesn't Steve's program handle the display part? Hooking the RS-232 receive
into the keyboard vector should also not be too difficult but as you say,
what's the point?

I don't recall whether the M100 has it (ISTR that it does) but some systems
have a built-in function, usually CTL-P that echoes everything on the
display to the printer (not just one screen like PRINT), which could in
turn be redirected to the com port and fed to a terminal program

m

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 3:05 PM John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 11:47 AM Brian K. White  wrote:
>
>> 2. Can I run M100 stuff from my remote?
>>
>>
>> What?
>>
>>
> I guess he means display what the M100 displays on the host and route
> characters sent from the host to the keyboard buffer of the M100.
>
> It could be done... it would require a program on the M100 side.
>
> Not sure of its utility though.
>
> Another idea would be using a host PC as a large display for the M100.
>
> So, say you have the M100 configured for 80x24, and a 80x24 xterminal or
> putty window on the PC displaying its output. Bytes and display codes
> routed out the serial port, with character set and control code mapping.
>
> Kind of like a simple DVI or VGA adapter.
>
> At a high baud rate, I'd guess it would be more performant than the native
> display.
>
> -- John.
>

Re: [M100] Modems and the modern world

[Mike Stein]

Not too terribly difficult; there are various hardware 'modems' (e.g.
Lantronix UDS-10) that can often be found used for around $30, or there are
a number of software apps that run on (through) another computer (e.g.
TCPSER).

Have fun researching!

m

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 7:54 PM Will Senn  wrote:

> Awesome. Now, all I gotta do is figure out how to telnet from my m100...
>
> On 10/6/22 6:36 PM, Gregory McGill wrote:
>
> https://thekeep.net  i have modem and telnet
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 11:45 AM Tommy Phillips 
> wrote:
>
>> There are certainly BBSes running, but the majority are accessible via
>> telnet over the internet.
>>
>> bbsing.com
>> telnetbbsguide.com
>>
>>
>> On 10/6/2022 12:26 PM, Will Senn wrote:
>> > As you may have noticed, I'm putting my m100 through its paces and
>> > enjoying the process of treading down memory lane. Last night I
>> > finished coding up my banner program using the M100 font. Now I just
>> > need a printer (or retroprinter emulator) to try it out on... in the
>> > meantime, I'm catching up on remote communications. If I understand
>> > correctly, the m100 has a built in 300 baud modem. Am I understanding
>> > this correctly?
>> >
>> > If so, in this oh so modern era, how does one go about exercising it?
>> > I don't currently have a land line, so does it work with an iphone?
>> > (never saw that coming... can I connect 300 baud over iphone,
>> > hilarious, but there you have it). Are there BBSes still in operation?
>> >
>> > Later,
>> >
>> > Will
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tommy Phillips
>>
>> to...@tommyphillips.info
>> 303-981-4310
>>
>>
>

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[Mike Stein]

There's no denying that BASIC is an important part of the Model T's overall
system but its operating system?
It is indeed closely tied to the Model T 'kernel' but is nevertheless just
another program in ROM.

No. the MENU is not the OS; it is the GUI interface to the OS, whatever
name you want to give that.

Except for 'KILL' most of what you mention is specific to BASIC; LOAD and
SAVE for example are part of every BASIC and specifically only load BASIC
program files;  if you're using your Model T for writing, communication,
scheduling etc. you will never need those functions. Try LOADing a text
file from BASIC.

Autostart only (re)starts a BASIC program AFAIK.

DATE$ and TIME$ are defined BASIC variables so that's where they are set
and used.

Granted, deleting and renaming files as well as loading machine language
files are done through BASIC, which is why I would consider it a
programming language and a limited file handler.

The point is that, unlike a Commodore system where you cannot do anything
without going through BASIC, you could just create a couple of small
machine language programs to KILL files, set the time and load .CO files,
and completely dispense with the BASIC interpreter.

Everything else needed to load, save, print and edit text files, download
and upload files from outside, maintain your schedule and address book etc.
and run any M/L programs that did not use any BASIC routines would all
still function as before.

A curiosity question: how do other languages, e.g. FORTH, get loaded and
run?

m


On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 3:12 PM Jerry Stratton  wrote:

> On Oct 6, 2022, at 11:57 AM, Mike Stein  wrote:
> > As I said elsewhere that point of view certainly applies to systems like
> Commodore where everything including loading other programs is done through
> BASIC, the system prompt is actually a BASIC command prompt
> >
> > IMO the Model T is uniquely different in fundamental ways; the 'system
> prompt' is the MENU and you can certainly load and run TELCOM, TEXT, etc.
> and most machine language programs without ever invoking BASIC at all.
>
> This would imply, though, that as soon as you write a file manager for a
> system and make it autostart, BASIC stops being the system’s OS. But even
> further, the MENU system, at least on the Model 100, has very limited
> system control. You can’t even delete a file through the MENU. If you want
> to set up an autostart program, that’s a BASIC function. Setting the DATE
> and TIME must be handled in BASIC. BASIC on the Model T arguably is even
> more of an operating system than BASIC on the Commodore. As far as I know,
> BASIC on the Commodore cannot shut the machine down (POWER OFF).
>
> Loading new programs from external storage (and saving old ones) is all
> handled through BASIC;  if you look in Tandy’s Quick Reference for the
> Model 100, it doesn’t say that typing “LOAD" is the equivalent of choosing
> F2 when in BASIC. It says that choosing F2 is the equivalent of typing
> “LOAD”. (Literally so.) The same for F1, F3, F4, F5, and F8.
>
> It’s certainly possible to argue that the MENU system on the Model T is a
> very rudimentary operating system akin to those on modern mobile devices;
> I’ve done so myself. But BASIC definitely remains “the” operating system.
> On the Model 100 especially, no one could operate their device without
> regularly going into BASIC to clear out files, correct the time, set the
> power timer, and so on.
>
> Jerry Stratton
> https://hoboes.com/coco/
> “We invented machinery to save and surpass our bodies’ labour; now we have
> invented computers to save and surpass the labour of our minds.”—Peter
> Laurie, The Joy of Computers
>
>

Re: [M100] Modems and the modern world

[Joshua O'Keefe]

> On Oct 6, 2022, at 4:55 PM, Will Senn  wrote:
> 
> Awesome. Now, all I gotta do is figure out how to telnet from my m100...

I won't spoil too much for your journey of discovery, but let's just say I 
really like my WiModem 232.

Re: [M100] When 10 GOTO 10 doesn't go to 10

[Joshua O'Keefe]

>> All: Does anyone have a Tandy 102 who's willing to try GOTO10.BA?
> 
> My 102 full of precious data is downstairs.  I will go abuse it.

Trip report:
After some fussing around with my Samba server because apparently an iOS update 
made it impossible to write files over SMB again, I just extracted the mime 
attachment out of the email on disk, stuck it in the designated TPDD directory 
in my $HOME, and brought it over with TS-DOS on REX.  LaddieAlpha [1] was the 
TPDD client, which I believe does some basic sanity checking on .BA.

Results:
Program LOADs from RAM filesystem into BASIC as expected.
Program LISTs in the manner that appears to be intended, if my eyeballing the 
tokenized file in vim reads right.
Program RUNs in the manner that appears to be intended, or at least congruent 
with the running commentary it provides.
Program BREAKs as expected with S-Break
A cursory inspection shows no obvious ill effects

Platform description:
T102, USA, Aug 1987 dated
32K RAM, heavily occupied by real data
REX Classic 4.9 6(1)
TS-DOS 4.10 /KM in REX option rom space
LaddieAlpha 05/05/2019 10:09:54 File Version : 2.1.0.0 on whatever version of 
Mono is in the default Docker mono image

Re: [M100] Modems and the modern world

[Will Senn]

Awesome. Now, all I gotta do is figure out how to telnet from my m100...

On 10/6/22 6:36 PM, Gregory McGill wrote:

https://thekeep.net i have modem and telnet


On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 11:45 AM Tommy Phillips 
 wrote:


There are certainly BBSes running, but the majority are accessible
via
telnet over the internet.

bbsing.com 
telnetbbsguide.com 


On 10/6/2022 12:26 PM, Will Senn wrote:
> As you may have noticed, I'm putting my m100 through its paces and
> enjoying the process of treading down memory lane. Last night I
> finished coding up my banner program using the M100 font. Now I
just
> need a printer (or retroprinter emulator) to try it out on... in
the
> meantime, I'm catching up on remote communications. If I understand
> correctly, the m100 has a built in 300 baud modem. Am I
understanding
> this correctly?
>
> If so, in this oh so modern era, how does one go about
exercising it?
> I don't currently have a land line, so does it work with an iphone?
> (never saw that coming... can I connect 300 baud over iphone,
> hilarious, but there you have it). Are there BBSes still in
operation?
>
> Later,
>
> Will


-- 
Tommy Phillips


to...@tommyphillips.info
303-981-4310

Re: [M100] Modems and the modern world

[Gregory McGill]

https://thekeep.net  i have modem and telnet


On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 11:45 AM Tommy Phillips 
wrote:

> There are certainly BBSes running, but the majority are accessible via
> telnet over the internet.
>
> bbsing.com
> telnetbbsguide.com
>
>
> On 10/6/2022 12:26 PM, Will Senn wrote:
> > As you may have noticed, I'm putting my m100 through its paces and
> > enjoying the process of treading down memory lane. Last night I
> > finished coding up my banner program using the M100 font. Now I just
> > need a printer (or retroprinter emulator) to try it out on... in the
> > meantime, I'm catching up on remote communications. If I understand
> > correctly, the m100 has a built in 300 baud modem. Am I understanding
> > this correctly?
> >
> > If so, in this oh so modern era, how does one go about exercising it?
> > I don't currently have a land line, so does it work with an iphone?
> > (never saw that coming... can I connect 300 baud over iphone,
> > hilarious, but there you have it). Are there BBSes still in operation?
> >
> > Later,
> >
> > Will
>
>
> --
> Tommy Phillips
>
> to...@tommyphillips.info
> 303-981-4310
>
>

Re: [M100] When 10 GOTO 10 doesn't go to 10

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 4:01 PM B 9  wrote:

> *Peter Vollan:* Can't read it on which machine? Or, do you mean you
> personally can't read it? Sorry about that. It was necessary to tokenize
> the file, but that means it won't be human readable until you LIST it on a
> Model T. Please keep trying. I assure you, it is worth it to see. How many
> programs change which line GOTO 10 goes to simply by the existence of an
> unused line 20?
>
> @Ken Pettit *:* By "VT", I believe Peter is saying
> that your Virtual T cannot load my test program. I expect Virtual T does
> the appropriate sanity checks which the Model T lacks. Do you have any
> interest in adding the ability to load degenerate tokenizations like this
> which can run on actual hardware?
>

Depends on how it was done. Using the direct file load is probably what he
did. You can tell VT to load a file from the PC straight into the memory
file system. I don't know if it's a sanity check being tripped. Maybe just
a functional issue with the format that VT tries to leverage but things
don't line up.

I think VT has a TPDD emulator now? That and TS-DOS would probably would
let it load just fine.

-- John.

Re: [M100] When 10 GOTO 10 doesn't go to 10

[Joshua O'Keefe]

> On Oct 6, 2022, at 4:00 PM, B 9  wrote:
> 
> All: Does anyone have a Tandy 102 who's willing to try GOTO10.BA?

My 102 full of precious data is downstairs.  I will go abuse it.

Re: [M100] When 10 GOTO 10 doesn't go to 10

[B 9]

*Will Senn:* Thank you for risking your Model 100 for this deranged
experiment!

*Peter Vollan:* Can't read it on which machine? Or, do you mean you
personally can't read it? Sorry about that. It was necessary to tokenize
the file, but that means it won't be human readable until you LIST it on a
Model T. Please keep trying. I assure you, it is worth it to see. How many
programs change which line GOTO 10 goes to simply by the existence of an
unused line 20?

@Ken Pettit *:* By "VT", I believe Peter is saying that
your Virtual T cannot load my test program. I expect Virtual T does the
appropriate sanity checks which the Model T lacks. Do you have any interest
in adding the ability to load degenerate tokenizations like this which can
run on actual hardware?

*All:* Does anyone have a Tandy 102 who's willing to try GOTO10.BA
?


Thanks!

—b9

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 11:14 AM Peter Vollan  wrote:

> I can't read it and VT doesn't like it.
>
> On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 at 05:48, Will Senn  wrote:
>
>> Hi B9,
>>
>> That's one very weird file. Yes, it loads, lists, and runs on my m100.
>>
>> Will
>>
>> On 10/6/22 2:20 AM, B 9 wrote:
>>
>> Alright, so this is kind of a weird one. I've been playing around with
>> the BASIC tokenizer I wrote and trying to break it by giving it weird
>> input. While doing so, I stumbled across some of those degenerate BASIC
>> tokenizations John Hogerhuis was talking about. No, I'm still not at his
>> level of embedding machine language in BASIC statements above the maximum
>> line number. I am instead exploring a more mundane mystery: how does a
>> Model T react to duplicate line numbers, out of order lines, and so on. I
>> haven't found this information online, but it's possible I'm just not using
>> the right search keywords.
>>
>> Anyhow, I've written a test program, GOTO10.BA
>> ,
>> which runs on my Model 200. Now I'd like to know if it works the same on
>> other hardware.
>>
>> Would anyone be willing to try it on a Model 100 or Tandy 102 and tell me
>> if it RUNs and LISTs. By the way, the file is already in tokenized BASIC,
>> so it'll need to be transferred in binary mode, not ASCII. (For example,
>> using DLplus , not TELCOM).
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> —b9
>>
>> PS. Please note that while it is not malicious, it *is* purposefully
>> malformed and shouldn't be trusted not to lock up your machine, spill bytes
>> all over the RAM drive, teach your REX to roll over and play dead, use the
>> modem to prank call Bill Gates, and/or send a thousand messages to
>> everyone  you know declaring, "I <3 MODEL T 4 EVA1!!"
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[Brian K. White]

On 10/6/22 15:09, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:

"HH/OS (Hand Held OS)"

Probably better to keep it always abbreviated, at least for the 600 ;-)

I guess the 600 is more hand-held than, say, a Compaq or Kaypro luggable.

-- John.



It is quite difficult to hold it in merely one hand. It's like over 9 
lbs? You need at least an arm. Arm Held OS? Back Packable OS?


I know what it's rightful name is, Donky Back OS

--
bkw

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[Jerry Stratton]

On Oct 6, 2022, at 11:57 AM, Mike Stein  wrote:
> As I said elsewhere that point of view certainly applies to systems like 
> Commodore where everything including loading other programs is done through 
> BASIC, the system prompt is actually a BASIC command prompt
> 
> IMO the Model T is uniquely different in fundamental ways; the 'system 
> prompt' is the MENU and you can certainly load and run TELCOM, TEXT, etc. and 
> most machine language programs without ever invoking BASIC at all.

This would imply, though, that as soon as you write a file manager for a system 
and make it autostart, BASIC stops being the system’s OS. But even further, the 
MENU system, at least on the Model 100, has very limited system control. You 
can’t even delete a file through the MENU. If you want to set up an autostart 
program, that’s a BASIC function. Setting the DATE and TIME must be handled in 
BASIC. BASIC on the Model T arguably is even more of an operating system than 
BASIC on the Commodore. As far as I know, BASIC on the Commodore cannot shut 
the machine down (POWER OFF).

Loading new programs from external storage (and saving old ones) is all handled 
through BASIC;  if you look in Tandy’s Quick Reference for the Model 100, it 
doesn’t say that typing “LOAD" is the equivalent of choosing F2 when in BASIC. 
It says that choosing F2 is the equivalent of typing “LOAD”. (Literally so.) 
The same for F1, F3, F4, F5, and F8.

It’s certainly possible to argue that the MENU system on the Model T is a very 
rudimentary operating system akin to those on modern mobile devices; I’ve done 
so myself. But BASIC definitely remains “the” operating system. On the Model 
100 especially, no one could operate their device without regularly going into 
BASIC to clear out files, correct the time, set the power timer, and so on.

Jerry Stratton
https://hoboes.com/coco/
“We invented machinery to save and surpass our bodies’ labour; now we have 
invented computers to save and surpass the labour of our minds.”—Peter Laurie, 
The Joy of Computers

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[John R. Hogerhuis]

"HH/OS (Hand Held OS)"

Probably better to keep it always abbreviated, at least for the 600 ;-)

I guess the 600 is more hand-held than, say, a Compaq or Kaypro luggable.

-- John.

Re: [M100] Talking over serial port

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 11:47 AM Brian K. White  wrote:

> 2. Can I run M100 stuff from my remote?
>
>
> What?
>
>
I guess he means display what the M100 displays on the host and route
characters sent from the host to the keyboard buffer of the M100.

It could be done... it would require a program on the M100 side.

Not sure of its utility though.

Another idea would be using a host PC as a large display for the M100.

So, say you have the M100 configured for 80x24, and a 80x24 xterminal or
putty window on the PC displaying its output. Bytes and display codes
routed out the serial port, with character set and control code mapping.

Kind of like a simple DVI or VGA adapter.

At a high baud rate, I'd guess it would be more performant than the native
display.

-- John.

Re: [M100] Talking over serial port

[Brian K. White]

On 10/6/22 14:19, Will Senn wrote:
I have TEENY.CO  working on my M100 and DLPlus on the 
Mac side of things and they work great. I plan to use it for all of my 
file transfer needs. However, now that I have the cadillac version 
running, I want to try more crude (cerca 1983) methods. In particular, 
I want to try using TELCOM. If the former works, should TELCOM work 
over the same physical configuration? i.e. M100->DB25-DB9 (NULL 
MODEM)->SerialUSB->Mac.


Yes, exactly the same physical connection.



I've got a couple more questions, too...

1. What kind of connection can I have with the remote system? I mean, 
can I log in and run commands? (I've done serial and TTL on my 
BeagleBone and Raspi systems)...


If you want to run a getty on a serial port, and install a M100 termcap 
& terminfo entry on the host, then yes. There have been several M100 
termcaps made by different people over the years but I haven't looked at 
them so I can't recommend any particular one. I'm just saying what the 
bullet points are not how to do them, especially on mac. (no idea how to 
set up a getty on a mac, let alone to a non-static usb port, or install 
a termcap entry or a terminfo definition.)




2. Can I run M100 stuff from my remote?


What?

--
bkw

Re: [M100] Modems and the modern world

[Tommy Phillips]

There are certainly BBSes running, but the majority are accessible via 
telnet over the internet.


bbsing.com
telnetbbsguide.com


On 10/6/2022 12:26 PM, Will Senn wrote:
As you may have noticed, I'm putting my m100 through its paces and 
enjoying the process of treading down memory lane. Last night I 
finished coding up my banner program using the M100 font. Now I just 
need a printer (or retroprinter emulator) to try it out on... in the 
meantime, I'm catching up on remote communications. If I understand 
correctly, the m100 has a built in 300 baud modem. Am I understanding 
this correctly?


If so, in this oh so modern era, how does one go about exercising it? 
I don't currently have a land line, so does it work with an iphone? 
(never saw that coming... can I connect 300 baud over iphone, 
hilarious, but there you have it). Are there BBSes still in operation?


Later,

Will



--
Tommy Phillips

to...@tommyphillips.info
303-981-4310

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[Brian K. White]

On 10/6/22 13:40, Tommy Phillips wrote:
Just for the record, I have really enjoyed the discussion that my 
off-hand remark sparked!


Me too.

I agree with Mike that it's at least from the outside conceptually a bit 
like Android, or IOS or PalmOS.


It's also one of the few things that makes the 600 still barely barely 
in this family.


It's 8086 and entirely different firmware and architecture, but it is 
still a main menu front-end to a set of both rom and ram apps, 
battery-backed volatile ram storage for apps & files, and the serial & 
parallel ports are physically the same as the k85 clones (and unlike 
everything else). At least HH/OS (Hand Held OS) actually has "OS" in 
it's name, and it's functionally/conceptually the same as the 100's main 
menu. But unlike 100/k85, it isn't based on BASIC, it doesn't even 
include BASIC by default.


But as Mike points out, even on the 100, BASIC is really just another 
rom app, not the primary interface to the machine. Well mostly. I'm sure 
the main rom uses library functions from BAISC, so it's not that you 
could literally remove it, and further than that there are a handful of 
ordinary operations where the interface is only through BASIC, like 
deleting a file. But those are the minority. You don't need to start 
from a BASIC prompt to RUN an app like say on a COCO. The machine is 
largely driven by the main menu and the actual apps. You could do a lot 
with only rarely actually needing to enter the BASIC command line.


But both BASIC itself like on some machines, and the main menu + BASIC 
on the 100, or HH/OS on the 600 are all operating systems. That was 
three, so not both, thrith? trith?


--
bkw





On 10/6/2022 10:57 AM, Mike Stein wrote:
As I said elsewhere that point of view certainly applies to systems 
like Commodore where everything including loading other programs is 
done through BASIC, the system prompt is actually a BASIC command prompt


IMO the Model T is uniquely different in fundamental ways; the 
'system prompt' is the MENU and you can certainly load and run 
TELCOM, TEXT, etc. and most machine language programs without ever 
invoking BASIC at all.


m

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 12:46 PM Jerry Stratton  
wrote:


On Sep 29, 2022, at 4:52 PM, Tommy Phillips
 wrote:
> A BASIC operating environment doesn't really meet the
definition of "operating system".

I just recently re-read John G. Kemeny’s “Man and the Computer”.
He specifically describes BASIC as an attempt to create “a new
language… that facilitated communication between man and machine.”

While it was written for time-sharing computers rather than as
the sole operating system, this philosophy made it a natural
choice for a very simple operating system for these earlier
computers. It was interactive and was “a direct communication
between computer and human being” that translated well into a
simple command-line operating system.

Kemeny envisioned BASIC programming as “teaching the computer”
and “imparting intelligence to computers”. The “collaboration”
that Kemeny envisioned BASIC facilitating between man and machine
is somewhat forgotten today, when even BASIC tends to involve
multiple steps and is used as an application separate from the
machine. But that philosophy baked into the language, made it, in
my opinion, almost inevitable (when combined with BASIC’s very
low memory and CPU overhead) that it would be used for the
operating system as well.

https://archive.org/details/mancomputer00keme/
Jerry Stratton
https://hoboes.com/coco/
“We invented machinery to save and surpass our bodies’ labour;
now we have invented computers to save and surpass the labour of
our minds.”—Peter Laurie, The Joy of Computers



--
Tommy Phillips

to...@tommyphillips.info
303-981-4310

Re: [M100] Talking over serial port

[jonathan.yuen]

1. The two can talk to each other if that's what you mean. If you try and dump 
a text file to the m100 you can lose stuff if the baud rate is too high. I've 
logged into a raspberry pi from my m100 but I don't know how a mac reacts to 
logging in from a serial terminal. I did command line stuff, like ls and 
shutdown things. Didn't try anything fancy because I didn't have the right 
termcap but it's out there.2. Going the other way, I've never heard of anyone 
running their m100 from another computer.  CPM??Sent from Samsung tablet
 Original message From: Will Senn  Date: 
10/6/22  20:21  (GMT+01:00) To: Model 100 Discussion 
 Subject: [M100] Talking over serial port I have 
TEENY.CO working on my M100 and DLPlus on the Mac side of things and they work 
great. I plan to use it for all of my file transfer needs. However, now that I 
have the cadillac version running, I want to try more crude (cerca 1983) 
methods. In particular, I want to try using TELCOM. If the former works, should 
TELCOM work over the same physical configuration? i.e. M100->DB25-DB9 (NULL 
MODEM)->SerialUSB->Mac.I've got a couple more questions, too...1. What kind of 
connection can I have with the remote system? I mean, can I log in and run 
commands? (I've done serial and TTL on my BeagleBone and Raspi systems)...2. 
Can I run M100 stuff from my remote?Thanks,Will

[M100] Modems and the modern world

[Will Senn]

As you may have noticed, I'm putting my m100 through its paces and enjoying
the process of treading down memory lane. Last night I finished coding up
my banner program using the M100 font. Now I just need a printer (or
retroprinter emulator) to try it out on... in the meantime, I'm catching up
on remote communications. If I understand correctly, the m100 has a built
in 300 baud modem. Am I understanding this correctly?

If so, in this oh so modern era, how does one go about exercising it? I
don't currently have a land line, so does it work with an iphone? (never
saw that coming... can I connect 300 baud over iphone, hilarious, but there
you have it). Are there BBSes still in operation?

Later,

Will

[M100] Talking over serial port

[Will Senn]

I have TEENY.CO working on my M100 and DLPlus on the Mac side of things and
they work great. I plan to use it for all of my file transfer needs.
However, now that I have the cadillac version running, I want to try more
crude (cerca 1983) methods. In particular, I want to try using TELCOM. If
the former works, should TELCOM work over the same physical configuration?
i.e. M100->DB25-DB9 (NULL MODEM)->SerialUSB->Mac.

I've got a couple more questions, too...

1. What kind of connection can I have with the remote system? I mean, can I
log in and run commands? (I've done serial and TTL on my BeagleBone and
Raspi systems)...
2. Can I run M100 stuff from my remote?

Thanks,

Will

Re: [M100] When 10 GOTO 10 doesn't go to 10

[Peter Vollan]

I can't read it and VT doesn't like it.

On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 at 05:48, Will Senn  wrote:

> Hi B9,
>
> That's one very weird file. Yes, it loads, lists, and runs on my m100.
>
> Will
>
> On 10/6/22 2:20 AM, B 9 wrote:
>
> Alright, so this is kind of a weird one. I've been playing around with the
> BASIC tokenizer I wrote and trying to break it by giving it weird input.
> While doing so, I stumbled across some of those degenerate BASIC
> tokenizations John Hogerhuis was talking about. No, I'm still not at his
> level of embedding machine language in BASIC statements above the maximum
> line number. I am instead exploring a more mundane mystery: how does a
> Model T react to duplicate line numbers, out of order lines, and so on. I
> haven't found this information online, but it's possible I'm just not using
> the right search keywords.
>
> Anyhow, I've written a test program, GOTO10.BA
> ,
> which runs on my Model 200. Now I'd like to know if it works the same on
> other hardware.
>
> Would anyone be willing to try it on a Model 100 or Tandy 102 and tell me
> if it RUNs and LISTs. By the way, the file is already in tokenized BASIC,
> so it'll need to be transferred in binary mode, not ASCII. (For example,
> using DLplus , not TELCOM).
>
> Thanks!
>
> —b9
>
> PS. Please note that while it is not malicious, it *is* purposefully
> malformed and shouldn't be trusted not to lock up your machine, spill bytes
> all over the RAM drive, teach your REX to roll over and play dead, use the
> modem to prank call Bill Gates, and/or send a thousand messages to
> everyone  you know declaring, "I <3 MODEL T 4 EVA1!!"
>
>
>
>

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[Tommy Phillips]

Just for the record, I have really enjoyed the discussion that my 
off-hand remark sparked!



On 10/6/2022 10:57 AM, Mike Stein wrote:
As I said elsewhere that point of view certainly applies to systems 
like Commodore where everything including loading other programs is 
done through BASIC, the system prompt is actually a BASIC command prompt


IMO the Model T is uniquely different in fundamental ways; the 'system 
prompt' is the MENU and you can certainly load and run TELCOM, TEXT, 
etc. and most machine language programs without ever invoking BASIC at 
all.


m

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 12:46 PM Jerry Stratton  
wrote:


On Sep 29, 2022, at 4:52 PM, Tommy Phillips
 wrote:
> A BASIC operating environment doesn't really meet the definition
of "operating system".

I just recently re-read John G. Kemeny’s “Man and the Computer”.
He specifically describes BASIC as an attempt to create “a new
language… that facilitated communication between man and machine.”

While it was written for time-sharing computers rather than as the
sole operating system, this philosophy made it a natural choice
for a very simple operating system for these earlier computers. It
was interactive and was “a direct communication between computer
and human being” that translated well into a simple command-line
operating system.

Kemeny envisioned BASIC programming as “teaching the computer” and
“imparting intelligence to computers”. The “collaboration” that
Kemeny envisioned BASIC facilitating between man and machine is
somewhat forgotten today, when even BASIC tends to involve
multiple steps and is used as an application separate from the
machine. But that philosophy baked into the language, made it, in
my opinion, almost inevitable (when combined with BASIC’s very low
memory and CPU overhead) that it would be used for the operating
system as well.

https://archive.org/details/mancomputer00keme/
Jerry Stratton
https://hoboes.com/coco/
“We invented machinery to save and surpass our bodies’ labour; now
we have invented computers to save and surpass the labour of our
minds.”—Peter Laurie, The Joy of Computers



--
Tommy Phillips

to...@tommyphillips.info
303-981-4310

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[Mike Stein]

As I said elsewhere that point of view certainly applies to systems like
Commodore where everything including loading other programs is done through
BASIC, the system prompt is actually a BASIC command prompt

IMO the Model T is uniquely different in fundamental ways; the 'system
prompt' is the MENU and you can certainly load and run TELCOM, TEXT, etc.
and most machine language programs without ever invoking BASIC at all.

m

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 12:46 PM Jerry Stratton  wrote:

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 4:52 PM, Tommy Phillips 
> wrote:
> > A BASIC operating environment doesn't really meet the definition of
> "operating system".
>
> I just recently re-read John G. Kemeny’s “Man and the Computer”. He
> specifically describes BASIC as an attempt to create “a new language… that
> facilitated communication between man and machine.”
>
> While it was written for time-sharing computers rather than as the sole
> operating system, this philosophy made it a natural choice for a very
> simple operating system for these earlier computers. It was interactive and
> was “a direct communication between computer and human being” that
> translated well into a simple command-line operating system.
>
> Kemeny envisioned BASIC programming as “teaching the computer” and
> “imparting intelligence to computers”. The “collaboration” that Kemeny
> envisioned BASIC facilitating between man and machine is somewhat forgotten
> today, when even BASIC tends to involve multiple steps and is used as an
> application separate from the machine. But that philosophy baked into the
> language, made it, in my opinion, almost inevitable (when combined with
> BASIC’s very low memory and CPU overhead) that it would be used for the
> operating system as well.
>
> https://archive.org/details/mancomputer00keme/
> Jerry Stratton
> https://hoboes.com/coco/
> “We invented machinery to save and surpass our bodies’ labour; now we have
> invented computers to save and surpass the labour of our minds.”—Peter
> Laurie, The Joy of Computers
>
>

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[Joshua O'Keefe]

> On Oct 6, 2022, at 9:47 AM, Mike Stein  wrote:
> 
> It's quite different from systems like Commodore etc. where BASIC does indeed 
> supply the main interface and control.

Hah, I was just about to comment on some of the Commodore operating 
environments by way of comparison!

The T offers an equivalent of a CP/M BIOS or Commodore KERNAL in the ROM.  It 
offers a command interpreter suitable for file operations and program 
launching, much like CP/M's command shell, though far more programmable in many 
ways; it also includes a great menu driven launcher and file browser.  The most 
popular of the Commodore environments -- that of the C64 -- had quite a bit 
less capability in terms of file management without significant extension 
although several earlier and later Commodore ROMs included such capabilities.

To top it off, much like CP/M and other things that meet the traditional 
definition of an operating system, several good utilities are included with the 
T's operating environment, like TEXT, TELCOM, and the mini-databases.

I won't define it for others but such a package meets my own definition of an 
operating system better than some of the other operating systems I've used.

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[Mike Stein]

It's definitely unique and different from most 'normal' operating systems.

A different point of view would call the ROM the operating system, with
MENU the GUI/browser that is not part of BASIC but optionally selects it,
just like other apps  like TELCOM, TEXT etc. and machine language programs
which also save and load files etc.; they don't need or involve BASIC at
all. From an OS point of view BASIC just supplies some standalone file
management and a programming language.

It's quite different from systems like Commodore etc. where BASIC does
indeed supply the main interface and control.

In some ways I actually find the Model T OS similar to Android etc.

m

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 10:12 AM B 9  wrote:

> It is definitely an "Operating System", not just "BASIC".
>
>- It hides device drivers behind nice interfaces. For example, just by
>changing the filename prefix one can save a file to a RAM disk filesystem,
>the serial port, a cassette tape, or even the printer.
>- As a file grows in the RAM disk,  behind the scenes, the system is
>constantly moving other files around in memory to make room.
>- Memory is dynamically partitioned so that the RAM disk coexists with
>the RAM used as working memory by programs.
>- And of course it has all the nice utilities like the point-and-click
>file browser, serial terminal, and an editor which isn't half bad even by
>today's standards.
>
> I've been wondering what this Model T / Kyotronic / NEC operating system
> was called. I saw somebody referring to it as "BASIC-85", but I'm pretty
> sure that's wrong. Recently, Bill Gates' Model 100 was auctioned
> 
> and the details referred to the firmware system he and Jey Suzuki wrote as 
> *"Microsoft’s
> N82 BASIC 80 programming software"*. That's a term I've never heard
> before. Has anyone else?
>
> —b9
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 5:04 PM Brian K. White 
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/29/22 17:52, Tommy Phillips wrote:
>> > A BASIC operating environment doesn't really meet the definition of
>> > "operating system".
>>
>> It is literally, the operating system of that device. There is no
>> particular set of features that defines "operating system". The literal
>> and only definition of operating system is the system that operates the
>> device.
>>
>>
>> > But maybe I am being too pedantic. It wouldn't be the first time.
>> >
>> > On 9/29/2022 2:29 PM, Peter Vollan wrote:
>> >> Huh? The Model 100 says "Copyr. 1983 Microsoft" when you go into
>> >> basic. It is common knowledge that Bill wrote the OS himself.
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 29 Sept 2022 at 09:08, Tommy Phillips
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ... and if I recall correctly, the Model 16 ran Xenix, thus being
>> >> the only TRS-80 to run an O/S from Microsoft.
>> >>
>> >> This, of course, was years before Linux.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 9/29/2022 9:04 AM, Chris Trainor wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> But still mostly a brand… the basis for the 80 was the Z80 in
>> >>> their early stuff, but like the Model 16 had a 68k in it. 
>> >>> Plus even tho the II had a Z80 like the I, III & IV, I thought
>> >>> operationally it was substantially different and none of the
>> >>> I/III/IV stuff would work on it? (never used one, remember my
>> >>> grandfather having one at work, but that’s it) .Plus the 2 &
>> >>> 12 were very similar, but the 16, meant to be an ‘upgrade’ from
>> >>> the 12 was way different (being 68k based like Apple/Amiga
>> >>> products, but not as ‘hip’ as those  )
>> >>>
>> >>> --Chris
>> >>>
>> >>> *From:* M100 
>> >>>  *On Behalf Of *Justin
>> >>> Poirier
>> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2022 8:04 AM
>> >>> *To:* m100@lists.bitchin100.com
>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not
>> >>> is categorized as a
>> >>>
>> >>> TRS-80 starts for "Tandy Radio Shack" and "Z80 microprocessor."
>> >>> The M100/T102/T200 have an Intel 80C51 microcontroller, not a
>> >>> Zilog Z80, like the Model I, II, III, IV had, and even worse the
>> >>> TRS-80 Color Computers have a Motorola 6809, so even in
>> >>> themselves, they were not consistent in sticking to their own
>> brand.
>> >>>
>> >>> --Justin
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, 2022-09-28 at 17:09 -0400, chri...@macross.com wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> TRS80 is a brand.  There are substantial differences between
>> >>> the different models for the most part.  Especially ones like
>> >>> the Model II.  The 1, 3 and 4 had some limited compatibility
>> >>> but stuff written for one wouldn't necessarily work in the
>> >>> other.  (Except that in theory you could boot a 4 into 3 mode
>> >>> to run 3 apps, but that wasn't really 'compatible' ).   So
>> >>>   

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[Jerry Stratton]

On Sep 29, 2022, at 4:52 PM, Tommy Phillips  wrote:
> A BASIC operating environment doesn't really meet the definition of 
> "operating system".

I just recently re-read John G. Kemeny’s “Man and the Computer”. He 
specifically describes BASIC as an attempt to create “a new language… that 
facilitated communication between man and machine.”

While it was written for time-sharing computers rather than as the sole 
operating system, this philosophy made it a natural choice for a very simple 
operating system for these earlier computers. It was interactive and was “a 
direct communication between computer and human being” that translated well 
into a simple command-line operating system.

Kemeny envisioned BASIC programming as “teaching the computer” and “imparting 
intelligence to computers”. The “collaboration” that Kemeny envisioned BASIC 
facilitating between man and machine is somewhat forgotten today, when even 
BASIC tends to involve multiple steps and is used as an application separate 
from the machine. But that philosophy baked into the language, made it, in my 
opinion, almost inevitable (when combined with BASIC’s very low memory and CPU 
overhead) that it would be used for the operating system as well.

https://archive.org/details/mancomputer00keme/
Jerry Stratton
https://hoboes.com/coco/
“We invented machinery to save and surpass our bodies’ labour; now we have 
invented computers to save and surpass the labour of our minds.”—Peter Laurie, 
The Joy of Computers

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[Joshua O'Keefe]

> On Oct 6, 2022, at 9:04 AM, Brian White  wrote:
> 
> I think I've seen BASIC 80 before but couldn't say where so it might be 
> imagination. 

BASIC-80 is, as best as I'm aware, the product name of the various Microsoft 
BASIC implementations for 8080 and Z80.  It's documented with that name in this 
manual which also refers to BASIC-86 which might be presumed to refer to the 
8086 implementation:

https://ia800708.us.archive.org/8/items/BASIC-80_MBASIC_Reference_Manual/BASIC-80_MBASIC_Reference_Manual_text.pdf

As such, I think it would be reasonable to call the BASIC interpreter itself on 
the T "BASIC-80", although the OS is obviously more than just the included 
BASIC.

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[Brian White]

I think I've seen BASIC 80 before but couldn't say where so it might be
imagination. But the main system rom on the 8201 or 8300 or both does say
N82 on it. I think the manuals say it too.

bkw

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022, 10:12 AM B 9  wrote:

> It is definitely an "Operating System", not just "BASIC".
>
>- It hides device drivers behind nice interfaces. For example, just by
>changing the filename prefix one can save a file to a RAM disk filesystem,
>the serial port, a cassette tape, or even the printer.
>- As a file grows in the RAM disk,  behind the scenes, the system is
>constantly moving other files around in memory to make room.
>- Memory is dynamically partitioned so that the RAM disk coexists with
>the RAM used as working memory by programs.
>- And of course it has all the nice utilities like the point-and-click
>file browser, serial terminal, and an editor which isn't half bad even by
>today's standards.
>
> I've been wondering what this Model T / Kyotronic / NEC operating system
> was called. I saw somebody referring to it as "BASIC-85", but I'm pretty
> sure that's wrong. Recently, Bill Gates' Model 100 was auctioned
> 
> and the details referred to the firmware system he and Jey Suzuki wrote as 
> *"Microsoft’s
> N82 BASIC 80 programming software"*. That's a term I've never heard
> before. Has anyone else?
>
> —b9
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 5:04 PM Brian K. White 
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/29/22 17:52, Tommy Phillips wrote:
>> > A BASIC operating environment doesn't really meet the definition of
>> > "operating system".
>>
>> It is literally, the operating system of that device. There is no
>> particular set of features that defines "operating system". The literal
>> and only definition of operating system is the system that operates the
>> device.
>>
>>
>> > But maybe I am being too pedantic. It wouldn't be the first time.
>> >
>> > On 9/29/2022 2:29 PM, Peter Vollan wrote:
>> >> Huh? The Model 100 says "Copyr. 1983 Microsoft" when you go into
>> >> basic. It is common knowledge that Bill wrote the OS himself.
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 29 Sept 2022 at 09:08, Tommy Phillips
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ... and if I recall correctly, the Model 16 ran Xenix, thus being
>> >> the only TRS-80 to run an O/S from Microsoft.
>> >>
>> >> This, of course, was years before Linux.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 9/29/2022 9:04 AM, Chris Trainor wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> But still mostly a brand… the basis for the 80 was the Z80 in
>> >>> their early stuff, but like the Model 16 had a 68k in it. 
>> >>> Plus even tho the II had a Z80 like the I, III & IV, I thought
>> >>> operationally it was substantially different and none of the
>> >>> I/III/IV stuff would work on it? (never used one, remember my
>> >>> grandfather having one at work, but that’s it) .Plus the 2 &
>> >>> 12 were very similar, but the 16, meant to be an ‘upgrade’ from
>> >>> the 12 was way different (being 68k based like Apple/Amiga
>> >>> products, but not as ‘hip’ as those  )
>> >>>
>> >>> --Chris
>> >>>
>> >>> *From:* M100 
>> >>>  *On Behalf Of *Justin
>> >>> Poirier
>> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2022 8:04 AM
>> >>> *To:* m100@lists.bitchin100.com
>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not
>> >>> is categorized as a
>> >>>
>> >>> TRS-80 starts for "Tandy Radio Shack" and "Z80 microprocessor."
>> >>> The M100/T102/T200 have an Intel 80C51 microcontroller, not a
>> >>> Zilog Z80, like the Model I, II, III, IV had, and even worse the
>> >>> TRS-80 Color Computers have a Motorola 6809, so even in
>> >>> themselves, they were not consistent in sticking to their own
>> brand.
>> >>>
>> >>> --Justin
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, 2022-09-28 at 17:09 -0400, chri...@macross.com wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> TRS80 is a brand.  There are substantial differences between
>> >>> the different models for the most part.  Especially ones like
>> >>> the Model II.  The 1, 3 and 4 had some limited compatibility
>> >>> but stuff written for one wouldn't necessarily work in the
>> >>> other.  (Except that in theory you could boot a 4 into 3 mode
>> >>> to run 3 apps, but that wasn't really 'compatible' ).   So
>> >>> the 100 and 102 (where brand changed to Tandy) are like the
>> >>> rest and different :).
>> >>>
>> >>> Oh and don't forget the whole color computer series was
>> >>> vastly different from the gray box models :)
>> >>>
>> >>> --Chris
>> >>>
>> >>>
>>  
>> >>>
>> >>> *From:* M100  on behalf of
>> >>> Will Senn 
>> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 

Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not is categorized as a

[B 9]

It is definitely an "Operating System", not just "BASIC".

   - It hides device drivers behind nice interfaces. For example, just by
   changing the filename prefix one can save a file to a RAM disk filesystem,
   the serial port, a cassette tape, or even the printer.
   - As a file grows in the RAM disk,  behind the scenes, the system is
   constantly moving other files around in memory to make room.
   - Memory is dynamically partitioned so that the RAM disk coexists with
   the RAM used as working memory by programs.
   - And of course it has all the nice utilities like the point-and-click
   file browser, serial terminal, and an editor which isn't half bad even by
   today's standards.

I've been wondering what this Model T / Kyotronic / NEC operating system
was called. I saw somebody referring to it as "BASIC-85", but I'm pretty
sure that's wrong. Recently, Bill Gates' Model 100 was auctioned

and the details referred to the firmware system he and Jey Suzuki
wrote as *"Microsoft’s
N82 BASIC 80 programming software"*. That's a term I've never heard before.
Has anyone else?

—b9

On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 5:04 PM Brian K. White  wrote:

> On 9/29/22 17:52, Tommy Phillips wrote:
> > A BASIC operating environment doesn't really meet the definition of
> > "operating system".
>
> It is literally, the operating system of that device. There is no
> particular set of features that defines "operating system". The literal
> and only definition of operating system is the system that operates the
> device.
>
>
> > But maybe I am being too pedantic. It wouldn't be the first time.
> >
> > On 9/29/2022 2:29 PM, Peter Vollan wrote:
> >> Huh? The Model 100 says "Copyr. 1983 Microsoft" when you go into
> >> basic. It is common knowledge that Bill wrote the OS himself.
> >>
> >> On Thu, 29 Sept 2022 at 09:08, Tommy Phillips
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> ... and if I recall correctly, the Model 16 ran Xenix, thus being
> >> the only TRS-80 to run an O/S from Microsoft.
> >>
> >> This, of course, was years before Linux.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/29/2022 9:04 AM, Chris Trainor wrote:
> >>>
> >>> But still mostly a brand… the basis for the 80 was the Z80 in
> >>> their early stuff, but like the Model 16 had a 68k in it. 
> >>> Plus even tho the II had a Z80 like the I, III & IV, I thought
> >>> operationally it was substantially different and none of the
> >>> I/III/IV stuff would work on it? (never used one, remember my
> >>> grandfather having one at work, but that’s it) .Plus the 2 &
> >>> 12 were very similar, but the 16, meant to be an ‘upgrade’ from
> >>> the 12 was way different (being 68k based like Apple/Amiga
> >>> products, but not as ‘hip’ as those  )
> >>>
> >>> --Chris
> >>>
> >>> *From:* M100 
> >>>  *On Behalf Of *Justin
> >>> Poirier
> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2022 8:04 AM
> >>> *To:* m100@lists.bitchin100.com
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not
> >>> is categorized as a
> >>>
> >>> TRS-80 starts for "Tandy Radio Shack" and "Z80 microprocessor."
> >>> The M100/T102/T200 have an Intel 80C51 microcontroller, not a
> >>> Zilog Z80, like the Model I, II, III, IV had, and even worse the
> >>> TRS-80 Color Computers have a Motorola 6809, so even in
> >>> themselves, they were not consistent in sticking to their own
> brand.
> >>>
> >>> --Justin
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, 2022-09-28 at 17:09 -0400, chri...@macross.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> TRS80 is a brand.  There are substantial differences between
> >>> the different models for the most part.  Especially ones like
> >>> the Model II.  The 1, 3 and 4 had some limited compatibility
> >>> but stuff written for one wouldn't necessarily work in the
> >>> other.  (Except that in theory you could boot a 4 into 3 mode
> >>> to run 3 apps, but that wasn't really 'compatible' ).   So
> >>> the 100 and 102 (where brand changed to Tandy) are like the
> >>> rest and different :).
> >>>
> >>> Oh and don't forget the whole color computer series was
> >>> vastly different from the gray box models :)
> >>>
> >>> --Chris
> >>>
> >>>
>  
> >>>
> >>> *From:* M100  on behalf of
> >>> Will Senn 
> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 28, 2022, 5:04 PM
> >>> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com 
> >>> *Subject:* [M100] is the m100 a trs-80? In walks like a, not
> >>> is categorized as a
> >>>
> >>> I've been reading around a bit (all over the world actually)
> >>> and there's a lot of stuff written about and for the
> >>> TRS-80... as though it's a 

Re: [M100] When 10 GOTO 10 doesn't go to 10

[Will Senn]

Hi B9,

That's one very weird file. Yes, it loads, lists, and runs on my m100.

Will

On 10/6/22 2:20 AM, B 9 wrote:
Alright, so this is kind of a weird one. I've been playing around with 
the BASIC tokenizer I wrote and trying to break it by giving it weird 
input. While doing so, I stumbled across some of those degenerate 
BASIC tokenizations John Hogerhuis was talking about. No, I'm still 
not at his level of embedding machine language in BASIC statements 
above the maximum line number. I am instead exploring a more mundane 
mystery: how does a Model T react to duplicate line numbers, out of 
order lines, and so on. I haven't found this information online, but 
it's possible I'm just not using the right search keywords.


Anyhow, I've written a test program, GOTO10.BA 
, 
which runs on my Model 200. Now I'd like to know if it works the same 
on other hardware.


Would anyone be willing to try it on a Model 100 or Tandy 102 and tell 
me if it RUNs and LISTs. By the way, the file is already in tokenized 
BASIC, so it'll need to be transferred in binary mode, not ASCII. (For 
example, using DLplus , not TELCOM).


Thanks!

—b9

PS. Please note that while it is not malicious, it /is/ purposefully 
malformed and shouldn't be trusted not to lock up your 
machine, spill bytes all over the RAM drive, teach your REX to roll 
over and play dead, use the modem to prank call Bill Gates, and/or 
send a thousand messages to everyone you know declaring, "I <3 MODEL T 
4 EVA1!!"

Re: [M100] parallel printer

[B 9]

Hey J,

According to the 1984 Radio Shack catalog

(RSC-10), your DMP 130 should work just fine. It says:

*Complete Interface Capability.* Connect your Model 100 to any Radio Shack
> dot- matrix, daisy wheel or graphics printer via the parallel interface.


Of course, they may mean that it can print *text* on a graphics printer.
Try plugging in your DMP 130, opening up a TEXT document, and then press
the PRINT button. (Alternately, try CTRL+Y which lets you adjust the print
format first). If it seems to just hang, use SHIFT+BREAK to abort printing.

I don't believe the Model 100 came with any specialized printer drivers, so
you'll need to find a program if you want graphics. I seem to recall seeing
a program in the Compuserve archive to print barcodes that could be read
with the wand attachment.

I'm curious how it works out for you. I have a similar printer (DMP 100)
but never hooked it up to my Tandy 200 as I've got no ribbons or paper..

Also, where do you even get ribbons these days?

—b9

On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 2:33 PM Jason White  wrote:

> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 18:16:31 -0500
> From: Will Senn 
>
> Will the m100 work with pretty much any parallel port printer or does it
> have to have a specific driver? What kinds or printers work with the
> m100 these days?
>
> I am using a Tandy DMP 130 with my CoCo and mt 100. I chose this one
> because it was cheap, and you can still get ribbons for them. I mention the
> ribbons because there aren’t a lot of makes and models that that is the
> case for.
>
> J White
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
>

[M100] When 10 GOTO 10 doesn't go to 10

[B 9]

Alright, so this is kind of a weird one. I've been playing around with the
BASIC tokenizer I wrote and trying to break it by giving it weird input.
While doing so, I stumbled across some of those degenerate BASIC
tokenizations John Hogerhuis was talking about. No, I'm still not at his
level of embedding machine language in BASIC statements above the maximum
line number. I am instead exploring a more mundane mystery: how does a
Model T react to duplicate line numbers, out of order lines, and so on. I
haven't found this information online, but it's possible I'm just not using
the right search keywords.

Anyhow, I've written a test program, GOTO10.BA
,
which runs on my Model 200. Now I'd like to know if it works the same on
other hardware.

Would anyone be willing to try it on a Model 100 or Tandy 102 and tell me
if it RUNs and LISTs. By the way, the file is already in tokenized BASIC,
so it'll need to be transferred in binary mode, not ASCII. (For example,
using DLplus , not TELCOM).

Thanks!

—b9

PS. Please note that while it is not malicious, it *is* purposefully
malformed and shouldn't be trusted not to lock up your machine, spill bytes
all over the RAM drive, teach your REX to roll over and play dead, use the
modem to prank call Bill Gates, and/or send a thousand messages to
everyone  you know declaring, "I <3 MODEL T 4 EVA1!!"


GOTO10.BA
Description: Binary data