Re: hacker edition status and future?
ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: > Joni Valtanen wrote: > >> Next version is coming as rootfs. There is no kernel updates. >> > > OK, this means hacking 2.6.16 kernel and backporting something makes > sense. Alternatively time could be spent in making dual kernel booting > situation working (IT2006 vs 2007 with newer kernel) so this answer > helps to prioritize things, thanks :-) > > > >> Same components are used as in n800 version, but the kernel is older >> 2.6.16. There is lot of work if n800 version of the kernel is used. >> > > Yes but I hope you are not completely ditching n800 kernel for future > hacker edition releases (if any). > > If you are not planning this it would be nice to say so and also publish > binary stuff needed to use newer kernels. First HE version had initfs > that worked with newer kernels but it is not availabe anymore at > http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/os2007_hacker_edition.php The IT2006 one > crashes in dsme early on boot with 2.6.18 which makes things really hard > since the unstoppable (retu?) watchdog reboots device and also reading > flags (like root device) from config partition with cal-tool is > impossible without dsme running. > > Frantisek > ___ > maemo-developers mailing list > maemo-developers@maemo.org > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers > Hi Frantisek, The approach has been again to use the OS2006 initfs for the 770, including the old kernel. Indeed in the previous round we first tried to use a newer kernel but that turned out to cause many problems - Joni has the details. We're close to releasing a new version of the hacker edition, at that point let's talk about this again. With that newer version working (userspace updated to the latest release for the N800 as much as possible) we can reconsider the use of the old initfs. Cheers, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: sbox2 & maemo
ext Andrew J. Barr wrote: > On 7/31/07, Carlos Guerreiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> What happens on top of the Maemo platform is a different discussion >> altogether. >> > > FWIW, I think that there is a distinction between "maemo" the platform > and the ITOS firmware that not everyone has grasped. Maemo is mostly > open, a lot more open than the ITOS firmware. I think most of the > people agitating for Nokia to open stuff want to be able to run free > software exclusively on their device (at least, that's what I want). > This could be a different distribution (e.g. Angstrom), or just a > different environment (e.g. GPE). I think many people want usable > stuff they can use on their device, not just SDK stuff for developers. > My two cents, anyway. > > At least, this is what I assume you mean when you talk about what is > "on top" of the Maemo platform. > Yes, that was exactly my point, thanks. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: sbox2 & maemo
>> > components should be pushed to debian and ubuntu and get those bigger >> > communities involved in their development. One day we will anyway be >> > >> Indeed. When it comes to Hildon that is certainly starting to happen >> now. > > This should be the default mode for most of the stuff we do. Arguing > that we need to keep something in-house for "competitive advantage" is > bollocks. Nokia has a few completely proprietary software platforms > already. No need create another one. Anyway almost all of the > proprietary components in maemo are of dubious quality, maybe there's > a reason for that... I understand platform as not to include applications, basically covering the scope of Maemo. The vast majority of the Maemo platform is open and the trend has been towards completeness. Within that platform scope, I too think that diverging from upstream is silly and that alignment of packaging with Debian makes sense. What happens on top of the Maemo platform is a different discussion altogether. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: debhelper in Sardine
ext Murray Cumming wrote: > I'm trying to build a debian package for cairomm, using the original > debian package. It needs debhelper, but it doesn't seem to be available > in Sardine (It is available in Bora). I never fully understand apt-get > errors but here they are in case they provide a clue: > debhelper is in the sardine distro: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/sardine/main/d/debhelper/ It looks like there's something messed up with its dependencies. I've tried to investiage but I'm currently experiencing some problems accessing repository.maemo.org. I'll try again later on. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: extras packages for sardine
ext Murray Cumming wrote: > On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 12:28 +0300, Ferenc Szekely wrote: > >> On 6/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Ferenc :) >>> >>> >> The sardine extras repo is ready. Please try to upload something >> there. The lines to your dput.cf are as follows: >> >> [sardine-extras] >> login = >> fqdn = garage >> method = scp >> hash = md5 >> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0 >> incoming = /var/www/extras/incoming/sardine >> >> Let me know if you run into troubles. >> > > This seems to be working well. I updated this page to mention sardine: > http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ExtrasRepository > > > Cool, thanks. I noticed you have already added glibmm. What's particularly interesting about sardine's extras is that in contrast to all the other distros which are immutable releases, sardine is being constantly updated towards the next release, so uploading your packages to sardine extras gives you a very concrete way of checking how they are getting affected by the ongoing platform development. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: sbox2 & maemo
> As long as Nokia works in the current, essentially forked, mode, > nothing will happen. Nokia needs to look at the way it interacts with > upstream projects and change. Sure it can be painful, but hiding > behind a smoke-screen of "product program priorities" is just not > helping to solve the real issues. > > Lauri, I can see you've been away for too long and missed some of the action ;-) >>> One day we will anyway be >>> running debian/stable with a few custom components on the tablets. >>> >> You mean switching back to OABI? >> > > Not really =) > This needs the current armel port to mature and be accepted to debian. > Nokia pushing it and putting resources into it would seriously help, I > think. So far Nokia has done next to nothing right in the distro > Fair enough. > maintenance area. If SB1 somehow contributed to this state of affairs > I'm really sorry > about it, SB2 is trying hard to change things around by removing an > obscure layer from between the host and the target distros, hopefully > forcing a tighter coupling of them. At least it should be possible to > I'm afraid things don't work like that. Alignment needs to happen for its own sake. It just makes sense to simplify and streamline our work and work shoulder to shoulder with upstream and other distros. Forcing that alignment through tools before it's there just means the tools don't get adopted. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: sbox2 & maemo
> The big problem is that hildon depends on an old, forked version of gtk+ that > nobody in > their right mind wants on their x86 systems. The nokia people at guadec were > unable to > give me an ETA on when that will be fixed :( > There's been a huge amount of progress towards fixing that. Nowadays the delta between gtk+ and maemo-gtk+ is much much smaller. Tommi Komulainen presented on that this GUADEC. And as Riku pointed out Hildon now runs on stock gtk+ with minimal patching. Lucas Rocha [2] and Karoliina Salminen [3] had presentations on the Hildon Desktop this GUADEC. We're not yet 100% there but things have progressed to the point were it has been possible for Ubuntu Mobile to adopt Hildon. [1] - http://guadec.org/node/584 [2] - http://guadec.org/node/561 [3] - http://guadec.org/node/547 ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: sbox2 & maemo
ext Lauri Leukkunen wrote: > Hi, > > Scratchbox2 can now be found in debian, unstable and testing carry frequently > updated releases of it. I've been going over a number of packages trying > to test it. I think it's pretty good considering the limited amount > of people using it, and the fact that the public maemo rootstraps are an > insult to all root filesystems. > > Most problems arise from maemo being totally geared towards SB1, which > is terribly unfortunate. It has resulted in rootstraps being stripped > of many essential packages to make them even marginally useful, all because > SB1 has kindly provided those and even pretended that its versions > satisfy build-dependencies for them. Target images are quite a bit more > useful, but require special tools to extract files out of jffs2 images, I agree that it would make more sense to have all essential packages in the distro and in the rootstraps rather than in scratchbox. Being dependent on scratchbox updates in order to update dependencies is not fun. ... > Nokia and Maemo community really need to figure out an easy way for > developers to use the real hardware and system-mode qemu. Those are the > only adequate solutions for testing and debugging of software. > No doubt system emulation would be a good thing but I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's the only adequate solution. For application development you can do a lot with the current system as you can see in this list and the application catalog. > Also note that SB2 is totally not interested in doing x86->x86 development, > > like what many people are doing today with SB1. People need to wake up, smell > the coffee, integrate with debian proper and get with the program. It's > stupid to maintain a lame x86 port of maemo which nobody wants when all the > Many (most?) people actually do a lot of their development on x86 so at least in that sense you could say they want that distro ;-) Nevertheless I too would prefer Maemo to be well aligned with Debian so we could focus more on what is specific to us and less on redoing their work. > components should be pushed to debian and ubuntu and get those bigger > communities involved in their development. One day we will anyway be > Indeed. When it comes to Hildon that is certainly starting to happen now. > running debian/stable with a few custom components on the tablets. > That was the aim with this whole debian thing in the first place, remember? > Well, a few custom components is a big understatement ;-) But yes, building on Debian was the thinking. As you know better than me we started like that with a snapshot of debian/unstable and somehow we never really got serious enough about keeping up with that plan. > regards, Lauri > ___ > maemo-developers mailing list > maemo-developers@maemo.org > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers > ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Sardine device upgrade failing for days now
Marius Vollmer wrote: > Carlos Guerreiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> Shouldn't we fix this issue in the packages rather than work around >> it? >> > > There is no issue in the packaging. > So why is 'mkdir /tmp/.run' needed as a manual step? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Sardine device upgrade failing for days now
ext Marius Vollmer wrote: > "ext Neil MacLeod" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> [...] it would be >> worth adding an extra step to the Wiki device upgrade instructions >> mentioning the need to "mkdir /tmp/.run" once the copy is completed >> (and after the chroot!) >> > > I did that. Please check: > > http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_getstartedwithsardine/ > ___ > maemo-developers mailing list > maemo-developers@maemo.org > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers > Shouldn't we fix this issue in the packages rather than work around it? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
SURVEY: Are you using Sardine?
Hi, Are you using Sardine? Sardine is for Maemo developers interested in following the development of the Maemo Platform and particularly the Hildon Application Framework. That's not a large crowd, but still fewer people than we hoped are using Sardine. We've got some ideas why but we'd rather hear from you. This is important for the future of Maemo. If that's important to you please take one minute to answer this really short survey: https://garage.maemo.org/survey/survey.php?group_id=92&survey_id=6 A Garage account is required but the survey is anonymous. I will summary and post the results here. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Next steps in the future of our beloved Nokia 770
We will keep working on the IT OS 2007 Hacker edition for the 770. We will go through IT OS 2006 bugs submitted in maemo’s Bugzilla, trying to solve at least the most relevant and the ones already fixed in the official IT OS 2007. We will release the fixes in updated images, all of them unofficial and to be used at your own risk. We can’t make any promise on performance levels or specific bug fixes, but hopefully you will be happier than now with the results. Hi, Time to get back to work on this. Work on the OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition happens in the OS2007on770 Garage project [1] You can help us get back on track by lending a hand with bug tracking. - A number of good reports of problems with OS2007/770 have been sent to the mailing list. Re-posting them to the Garage project [1] bug tracker would help - Copying open bugs for OS 2006 in Maemo bugzilla to the Garage project will help as well - Fresh bug reports are of course welcome Cheers, Carlos [1] https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Intel's Internet Mobile Device
Hi, I just came across this news at Endgatget. http://feeds.engadget.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadget/~3/109417695/ Here a technical the presentation: https://intel.wingateweb.com/published/UMGS003/UMGS003_100eng.pdf Looks interesting. Same approach than Nokia. They actually even plan to use Hildon. And they claim to have 20+ applications ready to go, many (according to the gallery) apparently Hildonized. If those applications are free software, it may be trivial to port them over to the 770 / N800 ... I may be being over-dramatic, but this feels to me like crunch time for Nokia. They will either decide now to accept the potential of their platform and go fully free -- or they will batten down the hatches in any way they can, in an attempt to prevent other players from leveraging their work. This is a positive development for Nokia and other companies building or planning to build devices on GNOME software. Intel's use of Hildon is welcome and seen as positive development. There should be plenty of opportunity for collaboration. Maemo as a whole has been so far primarily seen by Nokia as a application development platform though there is increasing interest in Nokia in the possibility of open platform development at the full Maemo scope. Hildon however has been for quite some time totally open-source and developed in the open. The code is available in stage.maemo.org. and we work directly from there. Frequent releases are made to Sardine. Not only there is no attempt to frequent other plays from using Hildon, it is actually encouraged. There's still a way to go in terms of making thedevelopment process more transparent particularly in terms of planning, but that is slowly improving. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Sponsoring Maemo packages into Debian
ext Guillem Jover wrote: Hi, Hi Guillem, Now that the maemo-gtk and hildon situation is in a way better shape (thanks to the great efforts of the desktop team, which have reduced the gtk delta between maemo and upstream), I'd like to offer package sponsoring for the core of the libraries (for now) into debian. It's great to hear the fine progress the team has been making on upstream alignment has reached the point where you can feel comfortable sponsoring :-) By the way, Hildon Desktop developers are doing great work making it scale and decoupling it from the specifics of maemo-gtk. I expect it to be soon in shape for being packaged for debian. So, my conditions: * might have time to mentor. * the sponsoring will be strict (maybe a bit more than my usual sponsoring standards). * no interest in anything that might go outside main. * no interest in actual maintainership. And of course anything uploaded to debian will end up eventually being in ubuntu, even if it might not get the same support. Sounds good. It's certainly worth investing effort on our side to make this happen. My hope is that this, combined with the debian armel port might reduce the massive forking proliferation that can be seen in maemo right now, and also make maemo more neutral. It should help. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Restructuring HAF product in Maemo bugzilla
Hi, Even though overall the Maemo bugzilla is still not as lively as we would wish, the activity level has dramatically increased over the past few months, at least in the HAF product. Nokia's HAF developers are now using it in our daily work, together with the Sardine distro: http://sardine.garage.maemo.org/ For quite a long time, many people have been unhappy with the structure of the Maemo bugzilla, seeing it as awkward and hard to relate to the codebase. Some have suggested organizing the bugzilla to closely follow the module structure, and have pointed out to the GNOME bugzilla has an example to follow: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/ That makes a lot of sense to me. As it happens, I've got administrator rights in bugzilla. So I've played a bit with it and added a with a tentative structure for HAF bugs. Here's the idea. - There's a product in bugzilla for each package in the HAF, as listed here: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/ - Each product (package) is further decomposed in components according to the maintainer's view of the software structure. For now, there's a 'general' component but more can be added. - For each product the valid versions are actually the package versions, not the IT OS release versions. It's based on the understanding that: - The Maemo bugzilla is for developers, not end-users. Regardless of whether they are working on the platform or on applications on top of it, developers are interested in and able to understand the platform structure. - The Maemo bugzilla needs to support day to day development of the platform, so it needs to accurately describe not only bugs in Maemo releases but also in day to day development So far I created products for only a few packages: apt, apt-https, atk1.0, dbus, dbus-glib, desktop-file-utils, dosfstools, to get the hang of it. I've listed only the version in Bora plus the current version in Sardine. And I have not reclassified any bug. Another thing to note is that there are components that are not part of the HAF but are nevertheless handled in the Maemo bugzilla. X Window comes to mind. I've noticed some of these bugs are currently in haf/general, possibly for lack of a better place. I think it would make sense to create products in bugzilla for them as well, as for the HAF components. I'd like to get comments and suggestions before adding the rest of the products and reclassifying the bugs. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: sardine-developers mailing list
ext Ed Okerson wrote: Hi, A new 'sardine-developers' mailing list has been recently created. I thought there was a survey a few weeks ago that decided against this sort of new list creation. How is "sardine" development different from "maemo" development? Isn't Sardine a maemo distribution? Ed ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers Sardine is indeed a Maemo distribution. Sardine development is currently different from Maemo development in the sense that it is about developing a distribution day by day which is not the way Maemo as a whole is developed - though it will hopefully be one day. Most of what is currently discussed in sardine-developers is about the distro packaging, build system and infrastructure. That discussion benefits from a separate focused discussion list. We've been encouraging our developers to engage in this discussion in maemo-developers, rather than internally at Nokia, but it never really took off until this separate list was created. Nothing prevents us from folding sardine-developers into maemo-developers one day though. Personally, I see that happening as we extend sardine to cover the whole Maemo scope and sardine becomes the window towards the upcoming Maemo release. Cheers, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
sardine-developers mailing list
Hi, A new 'sardine-developers' mailing list has been recently created. The focus of this list is the development and use of the sardine distro (http://sardine.garage.maemo.org). Threads are typically about packaging, dependencies, the build infrastructure, distro borkage and so on. To subscribe or browse the archives go to https://garage.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/sardine-developers Cheers, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: announcing the modest email project
ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all, "modest" is an experimental little email client with gtk (desktop) and maemo frontends, and it uses tinymail (www.tinymail.org) as its backend. After being vaporware and inactive for quite some time, in the last months we have started working on it again. And now we make it available for developers as open-source software (the license is BSD'ish, please check the sources for details). modest is far from finished -- we have written a lot of the Lego bricks, but there is a lot of work left finishing them and glueing them together. Many things don't work, and we're only at the start of turning this into a usable e-mail client. "Release early, release often", and bear with us while we turn this into something useful. Check the webpage: http://modest.garage.maemo.org which has all the information and SVN-links. Of course, we're very interested in your comments, suggestions and... contributions. Best wishes, Dirk. PS: if you want to chat about this, you can catch me at the FOSDEM conference in Brussels, this weekend. Dirk, that's really good news. Btw, I would like to see modest and the necessary dependencies in sardine :-) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Nokia hiring developer for Maemo and Internet Tablets
Hi, Another Nokia job ad ;-). We are looking for a software engineer to join our Maemo / Internet Tablets development team. This is a core developer position with a focus on Maemo platform development. Check it out and apply here: http://careers.nokia.com/nokia/hr/recrsyst.nsf/WB2RR/3753DE347ADD1747C225726C0069E7B2?OpenDocument&Lang=Global The new recruit will probably start by hacking with Marius on hildon-fm and/or the Application Manager but other arrangements might be possible, particularly if you are specially hot with some other components. If you are interested and will be in FOSDEM drop me an email or Jabber me on carlos.h.guerreiro_AT_gmail.com so we can arrange to meet. Cheers, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition with sound and video
ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Carlos Guerreiro wrote: Finally, patches are most welcome, preferably attached to the Garage project's (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770) tracker. Sorry for stupid question, but patches to what? Where are the sources (including your specific changes to make it work)? The garage project svn is mostly empty and the download page contains only the binary firmware image. I would be also interested in the sources of your (abandoned) attempt to use newer kernel and initfs. So far I was ignoring this project mainly because lack of sources. Maybe I'm just blind? Hi Frantisek, No, you are not blind. Thanks for pointing this out. Most of the patches we made are indeed to proprietary components. Some are to free components (e.g.: X window) or to scripts. Markku is organizing the patches them in the OS2007 on 770 garage project, against the source code in Maemo 3.0: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/ Many problems remain, some of which will likely be on free components. All open source code for the attempt to use the newer kernel and initfs will be published as well. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition with sound and video
Hi, An update to the OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition is now available for download at http://maemo.org/downloads/os2007_hacker_edition.php. The main news is that sound is now working including media and system sounds. Video works to some extent, though not the sample clip that comes with the image which is intended for the N800. VOIP calls work too. This time it’s a fiasco image. You can flash it in the same way as official releases. This is described in Markku’s notes (http://maemo.org/maemowiki/Os2007On770) which are up-to-date with the latest developments. There are still many glitches here and there, instability and performance problems, but with media capabilities this image is much more attractive. Help is appreciated. Markku’s notes are open to contributions. Additions and corrections are welcome, including suggestions for addressing the remaining issues. Problem reports specific to this release are welcome as well and should go to this Garage project (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770). Not to the Maemo bugzilla and definitely not to any Nokia support. There is no official support for this. Finally, patches are most welcome, preferably attached to the Garage project's (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770) tracker. Enjoy, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: [maemo-users] 'Locking down' software installation
I grant you a brief peek into our internal software requirements... :-) 22.3.1.3: The Application manager shall suggest a backup to be taken before a system update is installed. Rebooting and checking for enough free flash will also be taken care of. Yeah, we should be doing this kind of planning more in the open... There's nothing stopping you :-) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] FOSDEM 24-25Feb2007 Brussels
ext Matthias Stürmer wrote: Am Mittwoch, den 14.02.2007, 22:37 +0100 schrieb Laurent GUERBY: Who's going to FOSDEM this year? I'll be going and participating in a panel discussion on company involvement in open source projects http://www.fosdem.org/2007/schedule/events/research_panels_open_discussion Since we're currently doing a case study on the Nokia Internet Tablets and present some of our findings there, I'd appreciate it very much meeting some of the Maemo community members there and getting feedback for the study. As I've bothered some of you on this list before I'd like to do additional interviews with Maemo community members. So if anybody would donate some time to us researchers we'd be very happy to listen to you and definitively buy you a beer meanwhile ;) Best, Matthias A number of Maemo core developers will be in FOSDEM, including Nokia's Gtk+ hackers. I'll be there as well. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: Maemo roadmap, SDK improvements...
ext Murray Cumming wrote: On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 18:47 +0200, Quim Gil wrote: We are starting to have some material to populate the updated roadmap. One question that arises is the structure of the roadmap itself. Do you have any suggestion? URLs of roadmaps you like and find really useful? We really need to know about the development that is happening already, if we are to have much chance of taking more part in development in future. We need a module list, with details about the relevant branches in svn, like GNOME has: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/MaemoModules This should be possible to produce automatically, since most all the necessary metadata is available in the svn repository, in the packaging (which is in svn) or in the sardine .packages file https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/hafbuildbot/sardine.packages Including descriptions and maintainer names Most of this isn't secret. It's just obscured unnecessarily. I'd say not clearly organized and advertised, definitely not intentionally obscured. But Quim's question is very relevant in itself and about a fairly separate problem. We can address them separately though both need to be solved. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: [Fwd: First release of OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition out]
ext Neil MacLeod wrote: Carlos Guerreiro wrote: A first release of the OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition (http://www.notacloud.com/blog/?p=26) is now available for download at http://maemo.org/downloads/os2007_hacker_edition.php. Great news Carlos - and thanks to Markku for all his efforts so far. OS 2007 for 770 isn't provided as a FIASCO image - should we flash the 770 using OS 2006, then flash the OS 2007/770 components (root, initfs, Yes, that's basically it. I forgot to point out that Markku's notes include instructions for how to flash. Search for "Installing OS 2007 on 770 - hacker edition" zImage) on top? Or should we extract secondary.bin, xloader.bin etc. from OS 2007/N800 and flash those to the 770? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] [Fwd: First release of OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition out]
Hi, A first release of the OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition (http://www.notacloud.com/blog/?p=26) is now available for download at http://maemo.org/downloads/os2007_hacker_edition.php. Similarly to official IT OS releases, the download is offered to product owners only. You will need to enter your Nokia 770 product identification number to download. But this is not a official release. It’s not a end-user ready release. It’s a tool to allow developers to continue working on the 770, moving on to the OS 2007 / Bora software platform, bridging the gap between 770 and N800. It’s less than alpha. No Q.A. was done on it and who knows what it might do. It should not brick your device but then again, we can’t be totally sure of that either. I’m running it on my 770 and so far it’s doing fine :-). Multimedia is still quite broken, but there’s still hope. Have a look at Markku’s notes (http://maemo.org/maemowiki/Os2007On770) if you are interested in the gory details. Markku is updating these notes as he continues to work on this. Help is appreciated. The wiki page is open to contributions. Additions and corrections are welcome, including suggestions for addressing the remaining issues. Problem reports specific to this release are welcome as well and should go to the Garage project (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/). Not to the Maemo bugzilla and definitely not to any Nokia support. There is no official support for this. Finally, patches are most welcome, preferably attached to the Garage project's tracker. Best regards, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition
hi, first of all thanks for the engineering version - at least some of us here will not find ourselves abandoned. :) my first concern is - performance... would the OS2007 for 770 work sacrificing speed and stability? or it can work with OS2007 software at the OS2006 speed? Since N800 has better hardware spec, it might be possible that OS2007 will work on 770 ultimately, but not as smooth as how OS2006 does on 770. It's hard to say right now, since we haven't tested this much. It should only be a matter of days for the image to be released so you will be able to see for yourself. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition
An image will be available soon for download and flashing, to 770 users only. I guess including some sources - kernel at least (I am interested and maybe could even help) or all modified packages. Yes, we'll include the sources / patches to all open source packages that need to be modified, including the kernel. After that, Maemo developers with a 770 and a bit of time on their hands are encouraged to check it out. I will and definitely try to help if possible. Few questions/ideas: Did you try to leave old kernel from 2.2006 and backport changes needed (if any) from rx-34 kernel? Seems easier than using rx-34 kernel directly (arch/arm/omap1/ is outdated). What newer kernel gives us? If I remember correctly Markku considered this at some point. Markku? Same for initfs, what does break, dsme,bme? Thanks for the toolchain name, I had to build static version of evkey for bootmenu since I couldn't find correct uclibc toolchain. there is 'We used rx-34-initfs from apt-repository as a base' where is this, something internal? We will work on this still for some time though it is hard to say how long. It will also depend on how this is received. It might be that we can get more of the DSP and Multimedia to work, or maybe not. Could leaving old kernel, dspgateway, dsp_dld and all n770 codecs help with this? Updated gstreamer could be nice, though. Maybe some fixes in newer gst dsp plugins to make it work with older DSP stuff can make this possible? Probably. I had a chat a couple of days with Makoto and Andrea and they proposed keeping the OS 2006 DSP subsystem. Not sure about the kernel though, it might cause help work elsewhere. We can’t justify doing much work on this hybrid, our development focus is really on the N800. However, if we manage to make further progress we will release updated images. We’ll look at any patches that people in the Maemo community might turn up and consider applying them and releasing new images. We can’t promise we will do a good job there but let’s see what we can manage. Well I think community can (in theory) keep working on this and continue as long as is needed. What is not clear is how far we can go without those few but important closed bits (initfs - dsme/bme, config partition format, cal-tool etc., dsp stuff) and implications they have on the rest. Yeah. This will be interesting to see. This is again, something new for us, and we hope to learn something in the process. Yes, at least it can be another push to opensource something needed for this or reveal how far we can go without it. I am pleasantly surprised by the progress so far. It should help us refine our understanding of the trade-offs we are making when deciding to open/closed something Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition
Hi, Some news on OS 2007 for the 770 :-). We have commissioned Markku Vire (https://garage.maemo.org/users/mavire) to have a go at making OS 2007 run on the Nokia 770. This is the engineering release Ari talked out in this blog: http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/01/were-getting-some-feedback-and-weve-got.html It’s by necessity a hybrid of OS 2007 and OS 2006. Device drivers, firmware and some userland packages (notably the Opera browser engine) are those in OS 2006. However, most components - including the kernel - are the ones in OS 2007 where necessary rebuilt and/or configured differently. As far as the software platform is concerned, this makes this OS 2007 / 770 hacker edition pretty close to the real thing. We expect most applications built with Maemo Bora for the N800 to install and work, within the limitations of the hardware and subject to some software gaps - more on that below. We also expect applications that do not work on the N800 - due to changed APIs - not to work here as well. That’s great since it should make this release a viable tool for checking if your app will work on the N800 - before you have one. But it’s not the real thing. It’s not a end-user ready release. It’s a tool to allow developers to continue working on the 770, moving on to the OS 2007 / Bora software platform, bridging the gap between 770 and N800. It’s less than alpha. No Q.A. was done on it and who knows what it might do. It should not brick your device but then again, we can’t be totally sure of that either. I’m running it on my 770 and so far it’s doing fine. TigerT took the nice photo you can see here: http://os2007on770.garage.maemo.org/OS2007-770-2.jpg Markku made a lot of progress. Here’s what we’ve got so far: - The device boots up, starting X and the Hildon Desktop. - You can run most applications, including the Browser. You get the OS 2007 Browser UI but the version of the Opera engine from OS 2006. There are two reasons for this. One reason is that the OS 2007 engine will simply not run. We suspect it is the way it was compiled specifically for the N800 but we don’t have the source code so that’s a guess. The other reason is that the license of Opera that goes with the 770 does not cover the update. Somebody would have to pay more to ship the updated version. - Connectivity seems to work. Both WLAN and Bluetooth. We haven’t tested much though. - The DSP works at a very minimal level. Some audio media does play but there are no touchscreen sounds and no video at all :-(. We are still trying to do something about that, Markku is getting help from our Multimedia guys. In any case, some of the codecs from OS 2007 are not shipped - again due to licensing restrictions. - Instant messaging works. VOIP didn’t last time I tried, which is hardly surprising given the DSP doesn’t work that much ;-). - The very same OS 2007 theme and graphics are provided. Have a look at Markku’s notes (http://maemo.org/maemowiki/Os2007On770) if you are interested in the gory details. He’ll be updating these notes as he continues to work on this. An image will be available soon for download and flashing, to 770 users only. After that, Maemo developers with a 770 and a bit of time on their hands are encouraged to check it out. Problem reports specific to this release should go to the Garage project (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/). Not to the Maemo bugzilla and definitely not to any Nokia support. There is no official support for this. We will work on this still for some time though it is hard to say how long. It will also depend on how this is received. It might be that we can get more of the DSP and Multimedia to work, or maybe not. We can’t justify doing much work on this hybrid, our development focus is really on the N800. However, if we manage to make further progress we will release updated images. We’ll look at any patches that people in the Maemo community might turn up and consider applying them and releasing new images. We can’t promise we will do a good job there but let’s see what we can manage. This is again, something new for us, and we hope to learn something in the process. Best regards, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] API changes from Maemo 2.1 (Scirocco) to 3.0 (Bora), and Herring
Hi, As promised, here is an overview of the API changes made from Maemo 2.1 (Scirocco) to 3.0 (Bora): http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApiChangesSciroccoBoraHerring Many of them can already be found in Herring. In fact, you can use Herring to get a good approximation of how your app will port to Maemo 3.0 Bora. Please note that this is still a draft and incomplete. We are still collecting and verifying this information. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] docpurge in maemo 2.1
Hi, I've noticed something odd in maemo 2.1. When installing / upgrading packages in scratchbox, in the "Setting up" stage apt/dpkg can get stuck for large amounts of time (forever?). I've found this in gtk2.0-examples for instance, in the context of sardine work. It looks like apt/dpkg gets stalled while running /usr/sbin7docpurge with a large number of files listed in the command line. So: - Why is docpurge executed when installing packages in scratchbox environment in the first place? You don't really need (or want) to remove documentation there. - In any case, why does it get stalled? In the case of gtk2.0-examples it was still stalled after several hours. docpurge comes in the maemo 2.1 rootstraps, both i386 and armel. In the sardine build robot I work around this by deleting docpurge. It would be good to have this fixed. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Unbreaking themes in Sardine
ext Michael Dominic Kostrzewa wrote: Hey, As some people have noticed in the past, theming/display used to be pretty broken when using Sardine. This was caused by the fact that (due to the way things were packaged/organized) we couldn't really provide any gtkrc/theme updates without providing the whole graphical package (a package that includes the themes we're working on that can't be made public). This is, however, no longer the case. From now on, the theming components (hildon-theme-*) become an integral part of Sardine and will be kept up to date in future. No more theming breakage! To get on going, after installing Sardine, try: $> apt-get install hildon-theme-plankton-3 hildon-theme-plankton-3 is now a dependency of hildon-application-framework so installing sardine will nowadays pull the new Plankton theme for you. This will install a new, updated theme called "Plankton". It's not activated by default so you need to manually select it from the control panel. For the time being the theme actually looks like the old "purple" N770 theme. But this is temporary -- tigert from the Tango fame is almost done with the real "plankton" tango-theme which is *very* sweet and IMHO much more pleasing than other theme we bundled before. Plankton is going to become our new "development" theme and will be always public/updated. To make it all possible we introduced a small "system" of separate theme/layout/tool packages that can be used by the community to create custom themes for different versions of the platform. We'll be writing more about this in future, but for now you can check out the following packages in the Stage repository: hildon-theme-tools hildon-theme-cacher hildon-theme-layout-3 hildon-theme-plankton-3 "3" here stands for "maemo version 3" -- Bora. We'll be providing "2"-versioned stuff to build themes for stock Mistral installations too. Best regards, ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Taste the Herring!
ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On 11/30/06, Koen Kooi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Andrew Flegg schreef: > How far off is Bora? If it's next week, there's little point in > continuing to port existing applications; if it's 6 months, then I'll > carry on :-) You mean like the 'Roadmap' we both have been asking for in the past? I didn't want to use the scary "R" word, since tko confirmed there is no public roadmap to be announced. Asking, at least, when the next Maemo release is going to be should be independent of that. If Maemo is to be an open and community participated effort, rather than just an open source Nokia SDK[1], the leaders of the project (i.e. Nokia) need to start informing the community of their plans for the platform. Carlos' original email is a part of that, however there's no meat as to what will change (apart from herring-type HAF-level changes), and nothing at all yet as to *how* things are changing. The documentation about what will change and how will come soon (matter of days), you don't need to wait for Bora. Please be patient. Cheers, Andrew [1] There's nothing wrong with an open source Nokia SDK - it's just not what Maemo is pitched as. Maemo was started as an application development platform, with SDKs released for specific products. Many people who got excited about Maemo have wanted to see it as an openly developed platform and so have many people inside Nokia. This has influenced the Maemo message or at least colored how it is perceived. Officially Maemo is still that, an application development platform with SDKs, but we are experimenting with community development and eventually Maemo might develop into a community effort. I hope people will understand the difficulty of doing this, unfortunately it can't happen overnight. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Taste the Herring!
ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On 11/30/06, Carlos Guerreiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Klassjan, > Since you state applications have to be "ported" to Maemo 3, will > Maemo 3 be backward compatible with Maemo 2.x applications? [snip] We are working on documenting the changes and on a porting guide. Stay tuned. How far off is Bora? If it's next week, there's little point in continuing to port existing applications; if it's 6 months, then I'll carry on :-) Something in between. Unfortunately I cannot reveal the target date for Bora. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Taste the Herring!
Hi Klassjan, On 11/30/06, *Carlos Guerreiro* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: The Hildon Application Framework that is being polished in Herring will be used in the next major 3.0 release of Maemo which will be called Bora. By porting your application to Herring and testing it in the Herring environment you can cover a lot the ground to port it to Bora. Since you state applications have to be "ported" to Maemo 3, will Maemo 3 be backward compatible with Maemo 2.x applications? No. The gap is not large but it is non-trivial. However, some simple applications will work unmodified. We are working on documenting the changes and on a porting guide. Stay tuned. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Taste the Herring!
Hi, A bit over 4 months ago the Maemo project released Sardine, a fresh and tasty bleeding edge distribution of the Hildon Application Framework for the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet. Sardine contains the latest versions of HAF components and some key dependencies. Have you wanted to get a taste of the new features and APIs but had no appetite for the bleeding edge? Herring, the stabilization distro for Sardine is just what you need and it's out. Like Sardine, Herring is meant for application developers, hackers and tinkerers, not for end-users. To taste it, follow the step by step instructions in http://maemo.org/maemowiki/SardineGettingStarted replacing 'sardine' with 'herring' in the 'sources.list' file. So what about it? Sardine will always contain the latest component versions. However, in order to make releases it is necessary to feature freeze the software and concentrate on polishing, bug-fixing and otherwise stabilizing the code. Doing this without stopping forward development requires branching off the code. This is done in the revision control system, component by component as it becomes necessary. When components start branching in the revision control system the Sardine branches as well: a separate stabilization distro is created. The current Hildon Application Framework stabilization distro is Herring. How stable is Herring ? Herring is not finished in the sense of being production ready but it has been feature frozen. It is being polished and bug-fixed and is already quite stable. Further updates will continue to come to the repository. Maintenance will also happen there. Start making your application ready for the next Maemo. The Hildon Application Framework that is being polished in Herring will be used in the next major 3.0 release of Maemo which will be called Bora. By porting your application to Herring and testing it in the Herring environment you can cover a lot the ground to port it to Bora. The updates in Sardine and Herring do not cover the complete Maemo scope but they do cover a lot of the API surface: the Hildon Application Framework, the Bluetooth stack and Python as well as X Window. So most applications can get quite close to being ready for Bora. Best regards, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] extras repository
ext Murray Cumming wrote: On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 17:42 +0200, Carlos Guerreiro wrote: libsigc++, glibmm, and gtkmm are already in extras. The packages just need to be rebuilt for sardine. They need to be updated too to the latest source versions, but we can take care of this, if you like. The preferred way for the sardine robot is to build from source (tagged releases in SVN). So, one or more projects in garage with the right source versions for these components would be ideal, pretty much like what already exists for hildon-fmmm and hildon-widgetsmm. I'd rather not fork gtkmm's source just so it can be packaged, but I will if you really need it. Well, I don't really see it as forking since no independent development is expected or desired, but that's a matter of definition I suppose. Alternatively, you should find what you need here: http://www.openismus.com/temp/sardine_packages/ An alternative is to point to robot to the debian source packages. The robot has half-baked functionality for this, that I could finalize. I will look into this to see how much work would be involved and then get back to this. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] extras repository
ext Murray Cumming wrote: On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 00:58 +0200, Carlos Guerreiro wrote: ne question: Which version of gtk-- to use and where to get it from (packaged)? libsigc++, glibmm, and gtkmm are already in extras. The packages just need to be rebuilt for sardine. They need to be updated too to the latest source versions, but we can take care of this, if you like. The preferred way for the sardine robot is to build from source (tagged releases in SVN). So, one or more projects in garage with the right source versions for these components would be ideal, pretty much like what already exists for hildon-fmmm and hildon-widgetsmm. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] extras repository
As for something real I would go with Murray and others: let's use more components. And in order to help developers and package maintainers, build-bots would really help. I'm glad Carlos is taking care of it. Well, I'm looking at that for sardine and herring, let's see what actually can be done and how generally it can be applied to Maemo ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Up-to-date documentation for a working Sardine
Hi, Sardine suffered a large amount of change in the past weeks, some subtle others quite drastic. Lots of problems were fixed (more on that later) in the code, the packaging, the tools, the infrastructure and the development process. As a result after many weeks of being half-broken most of the time, Sardine is working (for me at least ;). The documentation has lagged behind for some time but now it is up-to-date, including crucially setup instructions. Enjoy: http://sardine.garage.maemo.org/ Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] extras repository
Scirocco will have a separate extras and sardine and perhaps herring will get one too. This would require more work from the developers, or from the package maintainers. They need to recompile their applications and upload them to separate places. I don't see how anything else can possibly work. But there must be some tools to automatically build packages out there.y I don't believe that Ubuntu or Debian maintainers personally build their packages for all versions (Ubuntu breezy, dapper, edgy, feisty), and all architectures (i386, PPC, etc). Yeah. That's the way to go: proper archive management with something like DAK (we'll look into that at least for sardine and herring once there's some time) and a build system to go with it. That will take a bit of time. However, there is something we could try now. Adding the Maemo C++ bindings to Sardine itself in "trial mode". If it does well it could end up in Maemo itself. One question: Which version of gtk-- to use and where to get it from (packaged)? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Sardine is back
ext Jose Dapena Paz wrote: El sáb, 25-11-2006 a las 14:04 +0200, Carlos Guerreiro escribió: deb http://repository.maemo.org sardine main non-free That's all. Sardine is self-contained. It includes the Maemo 2.1 baseline. Uhm. Then I should set this outside the application installer catalogue manager, as standard application installer doesn't let me remove the first entry. Should I wipe this out? The Application Manager will indeed prevent you from removing the 1st entry, However, it doesn't hurt as it doesn't intersect with Sardine, it contains only stand-alone applications (not libraries) and themes. I have found it OK to leave it in. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Sardine is back
On Sat, 2006-11-25 at 19:00 +0200, Carlos Guerreiro wrote: The xtrans-dev issue is probably due to packaging problem which I hope will be fixed soon. Basically xtrans-dev replaces libxtrans-dev but unfortunately it is not conflicting with it. If you install the hildon-application-framework metapackage it will take care of removing the old one so that problem doesn't hit you. In your case try removing libxtrans-dev manually. It's a dependency of libx11-dev, wich is a dependency of libgtk2.0-dev, which I'd like to keep. Otherwise try to find out more by trying xtrans-dev by hand. Maybe this is useful: [sbox-SDK_maemo2sardine_686: > fakeroot apt-get install xtrans-dev Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following NEW packages will be installed: xtrans-dev 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 25 not upgraded. 90 not fully installed or removed. Need to get 0B/58.0kB of archives. After unpacking 369kB of additional disk space will be used. /bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory (Reading database ... 29495 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking xtrans-dev (from .../xtrans-dev_1.0.0-4_all.deb) ... dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/xtrans-dev_1.0.0-4_all.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/pkgconfig/xtrans.pc', which is also in package libxtrans-dev Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/xtrans-dev_1.0.0-4_all.deb E: Sub-process /scratchbox/devkits/debian/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) [sbox-SDK_maemo2sardine_686: > fakeroot apt-get upgrade Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these. The following packages have unmet dependencies: libx11-dev: Depends: xtrans-dev but it is not installed E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f. Hmmm. I really recommend resetting your rootstrap to get out of that hole. However you might still want to try force installing xtrans-dev with dpkg Probably something like dpkg --force-all /var/cache/apt/archives/xtrans-dev_1.0.0-4_all.deb then apt-get -f install Btw, I'm almost finished with the Sardine setup instructions. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Sardine is back
ext Murray Cumming wrote: On Sat, 2006-11-25 at 14:04 +0200, Carlos Guerreiro wrote: ext Murray Cumming wrote: On Wed, 2006-11-22 at 22:58 +0200, Carlos Guerreiro wrote: Sardine is back. The Sardine distro was restarted with the newer Maemo 2.1 baseline and an older glib. [snip] What exactly should we now have in our sources.list to use sardine? deb http://repository.maemo.org sardine main non-free That's all. Sardine is self-contained. It includes the Maemo 2.1 baseline. Thanks. And a similar deb-src line can be added too. I'm currently getting this error with dist-upgrade: The following packages have unmet dependences: libx11-dev: Depends: xtrans-dev but it is not installed I know you said we might need to trash our targets and create them again (upgrading from Maemo 2.1?), but I'd like to avoid that if I can. I'm working on documenting the installation procedure. Need to finish that soon. But basically: In scratchbox: - apt-get install hildon-application-framework - apt-get upgrade In the device: - apt-get install hildon-application-framework - apt-get upgrade - some packages are held back. You need to install them manually with 'apt-get install' The xtrans-dev issue is probably due to packaging problem which I hope will be fixed soon. Basically xtrans-dev replaces libxtrans-dev but unfortunately it is not conflicting with it. If you install the hildon-application-framework metapackage it will take care of removing the old one so that problem doesn't hit you. In your case try removing libxtrans-dev manually. Otherwise try to find out more by trying xtrans-dev by hand. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Sardine is back
ext Murray Cumming wrote: On Wed, 2006-11-22 at 22:58 +0200, Carlos Guerreiro wrote: Sardine is back. The Sardine distro was restarted with the newer Maemo 2.1 baseline and an older glib. [snip] What exactly should we now have in our sources.list to use sardine? deb http://repository.maemo.org sardine main non-free That's all. Sardine is self-contained. It includes the Maemo 2.1 baseline. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Matchbox crash on booting sardine
ext Jose Dapena Paz wrote: El mar, 21-11-2006 a las 17:46 +0200, Carlos Guerreiro escribió: Thanks. I have now been able to reproduce the problem. For some strange reason it was not hitting me but it is now. I'm going to restart Sardine with a 2.1 baseline and rebuild everything. This is not something I'm happy about since it causes a discontinuity in the archive that will force people using Sardine to reflash / reset rootstraps. But given that Sardine has been basically unusable for many weeks I believe a clean break is a small evil. As part of that clean break glib I will try to regress glib to 2.8.6 which should fix the problem. Today I've added scirocco and maemo2.1 lines to my 770 sardine installation sources.list. I've run apt-get upgrade, and voilá, all is running. Fantastic. You might have noticed that we have completed the update of the HAF to D-Bus 1.0. All! :) Then I've finally managed to run the sardine. There are some visualization problems with themes, but in general all is working as expected. You can fix the defect on the right side of the screen by simply re-selecting the background image. The theming problem at the bottom of the task navigator will hopefully be fixed once we update the themes. MDK and Tigert are wrestling with our internal graphics development processes to make that possible. As an additional note, the upgrade affected pango. It may have solved yesterday issue. I need to admit that given that you have not re-flashed, I'm actually surprised that Sardine worked for you since you are probably still running a 2.10.X version of glib in a Frankenstein mix of the old and new Sardine ;) Perhaps rebuilding Pango against a 2.6.X glib made it work even when using it together with a 2.10.X glib :-) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Sardine is back
Hi, Sardine is back. The Sardine distro was restarted with the newer Maemo 2.1 baseline and an older glib. If you were following the disto before the restarting it might be that an upgrade will work for you but given that the same component versions were rebuilt differently, a clean upgrade path might not exist. So resetting rootstrasps / reflashing might be necessary to get Sardine to work. I just tried it on OS2006 with the latest SW update and it worked fine for me. I still have to document the detailed steps, but basically I followed Frantisek's approach here: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowTo_GetStartedWithSardine Now that the packages and the build environment are in a good shape it's time to get strict about the "one build for one version" policy. Enjoy, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] extras packages for sardine
ext Murray Cumming wrote: Is there any way I can upload extras (previously "contrib", from garage.maemo.org projects) packages for use with sardine, instead of just mistral? Unfortunately no. But I agree there should be. Ferenc, we had a chat about this with Devesh and somebody suggested an 'extras' component (in addition to 'main' and 'non-free') for Sardine. Could a way be found to enable uploads for garage projects to it? This would help us to make sure our packages work with the latest code, before it is actually released as stable, and help us to adapt to any changes. Agreed. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] expat and libxml2 now on stage.maemo.org SVN
ext Kimmo Hämäläinen wrote: Hi, I finally put expat and libxml2 to the stage SVN: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/expat/ https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/libxml2/ Cool. I've noticed there are also tagged releases for both :) For libxml2 could you tag 2.6.16maemo.1-7osso12 as well? That seems to be the current stable version. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Too busy to accept help?
ext koos vriezen wrote: 2006/10/21, Carlos Guerreiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: ext Murray Cumming wrote: > I'm not seeing any significant improvement to this situation, and > Nokia's developers seem no less busy. So I'm still wasting time chasing > incredibly minor patches. > > I still think a dedicated empowered community liason would fix this. > Murray, you have suggested this before and we have taken notice. At some point that would most probably improve things and it might very well happen. However, at this point our difficulties mainly stem from internal development processes that are not well good at enabling community platform development. I don't fully agree with this, Nokia isn't doing so bad IMO. First the $99 campaign was a smart move to start up a community. The maemo.org and garage are great infrastructures for developers. Scratchbox simply rocks IMHO. And @nokia.com is often one of the answering ones on this list. Certainly. All of this is great infrastructure for _application_ developers. That's the original focus of Maemo, to provide a good platform for _application_ development on the 770. My understanding of Murray's frustration is that it is mainly about the difficulty of doing _platform_ development, meaning contributing to Maemo itself, not simply building on top of Maemo. It is hardly surprising that community platform development has been so difficult given that was not originally a goal for Maemo. Sure, the platform is open, the source code is available and we've tried to enable tinkering with it as much as possible since having an open platform helps and encourages application development and hey, contributions to the platform wouldn't hurt. But we (Nokia) didn't prepare ourselves or Maemo for developing Maemo itself openly with the community, In terms of infrastructure, processes and even mindset. That's why Murray and others find it so hard to contribute. Recently we have selected the HAF as the playground for experimenting with community platform development. Why the HAF? Mostly because it contains many of the open-source components originated by Nokia (e.g.: maemo-af-desktop). Those are the ones that would benefit the most from attracting a community of developers. So it's the HAF software and the HAF team that are the primary focus of process and infrastructure adjustments. May I humbly suggest that not only the haf is important, but also the community applications may need some more attention. New releases from Nokia almost looks like calling processEvents() on the community, apps update/improve suddenly faster. Someone that pushes the community other ways may do this also. That's true, point taken. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Too busy to accept help?
ext Koen Kooi wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Murray Cumming schreef: I'm not seeing any significant improvement to this situation, and Nokia's developers seem no less busy. So I'm still wasting time chasing incredibly minor patches. I still think a dedicated empowered community liason would fix this. A liason that actively comminucates, instead of passively. Things like herring are a great initiative, but if it's only mentioned on IRC after some questioning it will never be of great value to non-developers. Hi Koen, Herring will be announced soon during the next few days, once the repository is minimally ready. Please be patient. For those who cannot absolutely wait here's a few words about herring, which you can find on http://sardine.garage.maemo.org/about.html Herring Sardine will always contain the latest component versions. However, in order to make releases it is necessary to feature freeze the software and concentrate on polishing, bug-fixing and otherwise stabilizing the code. Doing this without stopping forward development requires branching off the code. This is done in the revision control system, component by component as it becomes necessary. When components start branching in the revision control system the Sardine distro branches as well: a separate stabilization distro is created. The current stabilization HAF distro is Herring. _Please note that the Herring is still under construction but should be available very soon_ We are preparing the herring repository here: * deb http://repository.maemo.org herring main non-free However, I wouldn't encourage anybody to try it out just yet, it's just not ready. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Too busy to accept help?
ext Murray Cumming wrote: I'm not seeing any significant improvement to this situation, and Nokia's developers seem no less busy. So I'm still wasting time chasing incredibly minor patches. I still think a dedicated empowered community liason would fix this. Murray, you have suggested this before and we have taken notice. At some point that would most probably improve things and it might very well happen. However, at this point our difficulties mainly stem from internal development processes that are not well good at enabling community platform development. We are working hard to adjust them but this is something that is difficult to do within the constraints of product development and internal infrastructure. It takes time. Please be patient, things are improving at many levels. As ever, I'm not complaining so much as trying to suggest how to make things perfect. Your suggestions and help are as always welcome and motivating. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Re: The glib 2.10 issue
Hi, I made some progress with the glib 2.10 issue in Sardine. I'd now say that we should go forward with glib 2.10 and simply make pango 1.8.1 work with it. Here is what I did: - I made a new version of pango 1.8.1 that hopefully works with glib 2.10. I think Tapani has done similar stuff and then took it back but I didn't investigate. The new branch is here: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/pango1.0/pango1.0-1.8.1.sardine/ This is the patch: *** pango-1.8.1-shared/pango/break.c2006-10-18 19:29:39.0 +0300 --- pango-1.8.1/pango/break.c 2006-10-18 19:38:48.0 +0300 *** *** 776,781 --- 776,787 break; default: + /* Try to cope gracefully with unknown break types. +This makes old versions of Pango work with glib 2.10. + */ + if (!IN_BREAK_TABLE (break_type)) + break_type = G_UNICODE_BREAK_ALPHABETIC; + g_assert (IN_BREAK_TABLE (prev_break_type)); g_assert (IN_BREAK_TABLE (break_type)); break_op = BREAK_OP (prev_break_type, break_type); - I reverted sardine.packages to include the latest glib 2.10. tag. - I fixed Xft a bit and made a new release from stage trunk: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/xft/2.1.6-1osso12/ This fixed two issues: a missing Build-Dependency on libfreetype6-dev and the need to recompile because of the bleeding .la thing. We had two packages with identical version numbers but differen contents; compare usr/lib/libXft.la from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/sardine/main/x/xft/libxft-dev_2.1.6-1osso10_i386.deb with the same file from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo2.0/free/x/xft/libxft-dev_2.1.6-1osso10_i386.deb Arghh! This whole .la issue seems to show that we operate slightly beyond the limits of our competencies... :-/ Now the packages compile in the hafbuildbot, but I haven't really tested what hapens with them on the device etc. I leave herring to you, Carlos, should there be similar issues in it... ;) Sounds great, Marius. I'll try this out on the device. Herring is still in preparation ;-). I believe it will not be affected since it never had the recent glib. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Problems upgrading to sardine in scratchbox
On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 14:48 +0300, Kimmo Hämäläinen wrote: On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 13:33 +0200, ext Murray Cumming wrote: But I get an error when trying to init the af system: [sbox-SDK_maemo2.0_686: ~] > af-sb-init.sh start /usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 40: /etc/osso-af-init/locale: No such file or directory This looks like my current osso-af-startup problem that I was telling you about in Bugzilla. Just use the previous version. Ah. I'm not sure how to apt-get the previous version. Could you email me when the fixed version is in the repository, so I can just apt-get upgrade? Thanks, and sorry for making things difficult I believe the right way to move ahead is actually to quickly release a new version of osso-af-startup with this problem fixed ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Sardine bugs/status
Hi Larry, First of all, thanks for trying out Sardine. > I'm wondering what is the best way to report on problems in the > Sardine repo. I don't want to report known problems but there doesn't > seem to be a current list of issues. I try to stay up to date with There's a list of current issues here: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/SardineDistro That's a wiki page, additions/corrections are welcome. Sardine is now moving to Garage. The webpages are already there: http://sardine.garage.maemo.org, soon it will be possible to report issues with the build system/repository/web pages/infrastructure there as well. Bugs in the software itself can be reported in Bugzilla. Report to the 'HAF' product and the 'sardine' version. Since Sardine is a moving target rather than a frozen version it really helps if you can specify in 'Additional Comments' the exact package version. > Sardine but currently an apt-get upgrade will break the application > launcher. Thank heavens for booting from mmc! --I always back up my Right now my 770 is fully up to date with Sardine, and the application launcher has lost the "contacts" button and has some theming issues. The other buttons do work however. Could you provide some more detail about what you are experiencing? A bug report would be really appreciated. > mmc card before a upgrade since that's where I run from by default. > Yeah, dual booting is pretty much a must when using Sardine. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] libusb dependency problem
> When updating Sardine I can't upgrade programs like > osso-application-installer and maemo-af-desktop because they depend on > libusb-0.1.4>=2:0.1.10a. > > This version of libusb isn't available in the repository? > Hi Niels, Osso-application-installer and maemo-af-desktop install fine on both scratchbox and the 770, works for me at least. Sardine pulls libusb-0.1.4 from the maemo2.0 repository. Sardine is currently a delta over maemo2.0, it's not self contained. Maybe you have not listed the maemo2.0 repository in your sources.list file? Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: Repositories
> > Well ... I am one of those users caught a bit by doing an "apt-get > > upgrade" (more specifically I took the Red Pill and upgraded some > > core packages) and expecting it to "do the right thing". I didn't > > get the constant rebooting but I am experiencing random application > > crashes now. Yes, that was a screw up. Upgrading to Sardine is not "officially" supported, it is experimental at the moment. However, upgrading from the Maemo 2.0 repository should have resulted in nothing whatsoever happening, since the Maemo 2.0 repo should have had the very same versions as in the device. We hope not to repeat the same mistake next time. > > > > "The right thing" that I was expecting was: > > - Upgrade core packages with newer more stable more up to date > > packages with possible security fixes and functionality fixes but no > > great leaps in versions That was never the plan for Maemo 2.0. It was meant to be an immutable snapshot. One of the reasons was simply that many packages are not packaged to upgrade correctly and the package database is broken in that regard too. This broken Maemo 2.0 impacts Sardine too, since Sardine is using it as a baseline and requires packages in it (but not in the device). That's probably going to change soon, by making the Sardine repository self- sufficient. > > - any unstable, in-development packages for the next version of the > > OS would be in a separate repository component that would need to be > > specificially enabled Yup, that's Sardine. > > - once a new stable branch was developed, I could use apt-get > > upgrade to upgrade my 770 to it after changing the repository info > > over That's the idea with Sardine, however we are still not there, plus the project is experimental and limited to a subset of Maemo (Hildon Application Framework). If everything goes well and Sardine proves itself a success, it could be enlarged to cover the whole Maemo scope. > > I understand now that the repositories are not arranged that way for > > the 770 ... I just wish they were. So do why > > I also have to figure out which packages to downgrade in order for > > my 770 to become stable again. Maybe a reflash is the simplest way. Yes, a reflash is the way ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Sardine releases feed working again
> > That's very good news! I have just one request: > > > > Can the 'Fixes: NB#37947' tpye messages be a bit more verbose? > > > > I love it when bugs get fixed, but a bug-title or summary would even better > > :) > > ehm... like 'Fixes: NB#38982 Blinking behavior is different for centered > alignment.' in > the rss entry after that :) The feed generator works with the information available in the changelogs, it can't do miracles. In some cases the maintainers have included bug titles, in some other cases they haven't. That's clearly something to improve. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Sardine releases feed working again
Hi, The Sardine releases RSS feed (http://repository.maemo.org/sardine/rss20.xml) is now working again. It was broken for over a week due to insufficiently robust parsing of the changelogs in the feed generator. I hope I got that right this time ;-) Best regards, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Re: Sardine build environment broken?
On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 18:51 +0300, Janne Kataja wrote: > Hello, > > I tried to apt-get dist-upgrade to latest sardine, but there was a > problem with missing libXfixes.so.0. Try 'apt-get upgrade' instead. This is what we've been running and is recommended here:http://repository.maemo.org/sardine/getting_started.html Sometimes packages are held back. Often (e.g. there are no missing dependencies) it is possible to install those with 'apt-get install'. > This is not listed in any dependencies, but it's linked to in many > binaries and libraries. I presume you did this inside an i386 scratchbox. Could you check again, this time with 'apt-get upgrade'? > Maybe this is a problem with the build environment? > What is this libxfixes supposed to do? http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software_2fFixesExt > > ldd /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so > .. > libXfixes.so.0 => not found (0x) > > > Janne > ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Re: Sardine build environment broken?
On Tue, 2006-09-05 at 22:42 +0300, Carlos Guerreiro wrote: > On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 19:54 +0300, Tran Van Hoang wrote: > > Hi Carlos, > > > > Also, the dependency between hildon-fm-dev and hildon-fm1 is broken > > > > <-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<- > > fakeroot apt-get install hildon-fm-dev > > Reading Package Lists... Done > > Building Dependency Tree... Done > > Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have > > requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable > > distribution that some required packages have not yet been created > > or been moved out of Incoming. > > > > Since you only requested a single operation it is extremely likely that > > the package is simply not installable and a bug report against > > that package should be filed. > > The following information may help to resolve the situation: > > > > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > > hildon-fm-dev: Depends: hildon-fm1 (= 1.7-1) but 1.6-1 is to be > > installed > > E: Broken packages > > ->->->->->->->->-> > > > > hildon-fm1 v 1.7-1 is not to be found > > > > This seems to be a problem in the q-manager for the sardine repository > or the caching network. > hildon-fm1 1.7-1.1 built fine and was uploaded to it. > If you look at http://repository.maemo.org/pool/sardine/main/o/osso- > gnomevfs-extra/ you'll see the armel package is actually there though > the i386 package isn't even though both were built and uploaded. > http://repository.maemo.org/sardine/i386/packagestatus.html > > I built the i386 package, and uploaded it manually to the repository. > Even though dput apparently succeeded I still can't see it in the > repository. > > Ferenc, maybe you can help with this? It looks like I was to quick to write that. hildon-fm1 1.7-1.1 now made it to the repository (the manual build I presume) I was able to upgrade it on a i386 scratchbox though I had to forcefully install (dpkg --install --force-all) libbluetooth2 (a known problem). In the end I could upgrade everything on a i386 scratchbox through 'apt- get upgrade' but also 'apt-get install' for some packages being held back. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: Repositories
> ext Andrey Khurri wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I am now a bit puzzled with this repositories stuff. I've been always > > aware of that repository.maemo.org MUST NOT be used on a host > > workstation or PC. This is clear. > > > > However, how should I interpret all those warnings that this repository > > is 'ONLY' meant for using inside Scratchbox? This 'ONLY' sounds > > ambiguously to me when I look at i.e. ApplicationCatalog2006 and see > > there lots of packages meant for Nokia 770 device and available from > > repository.maemo.org. Doesn't this mean that repository.maemo.org should > > be included in /etc/apt/sources.list on Nokia 770 in order to get those > > packages installed? > > > > Or is the difference that one could fetch packages from > > repository.maemo.org and install them on Nokia 770 BUT could NOT use > > this repository to upgrade tablet (like 'apt-get upgrade')? > > > Correct. We need to look into organizing the repositories better > In most ideal and correct case, the apt-get upgrade from > repository.maemo.org should not do anything on the device so > validate perfect sync between packages on the device and packages > in the maemo repository. The problem starts from the fact that > maemo integration team takes these packages from internal package > repository for device and then > - reorganize them in a different (free/non-free) components then available > internally > - some source packages are cleaned to meet legal requirements (these cleanup > patches are filled as bugs in internal bugzilla, but sometimes not > applied internally > promptly, causing a different versions of binary packages produced) > - some device binary packages are replaced with packages delivered > specifically > for maemo e.g binary input method, themes, bitmaps, multimedia (codecs > etc) > Most of these differences are not really justified anymore. The exceptions (themes,bitmaps,...) need to be handled in a controlled manner. We are working towards getting rid of the unnecessary divergence. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: Scratchbox is not an emulator
> >From reading this list and the fact that the chroot environment is > quite bare I got the impression that even stuff Nokia did not license > from other companies but develop themselves was closed as well -- that > might well be wrong, so I'll go look through the svn before I say > anything else :) It's a mix. Some Nokia developed software is open, particularly at the platform level: hildon widgets, UI framework and so on. Some of it is proprietary particularly at the application level. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Reboot Cycle
> On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:25:04 +0300 > Marius Vollmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > "ext Johannes Eickhold" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > I think it would be a good idea not to say "You can freely alternate > > > between AI 2006 and apt-get, say. Changes done to the system via apt-get > > > or dpkg are picked up by the AI 2006 without confusing it, and vice > > > versa." like [1] does, if it can cause so much trouble. > > > > Hmm. That sentence is pretty accurate, so why should we remove it? > > > > It is not a guarantee, of course, that all changes to your system that > > you make with apt-get will be good ones. There could be a warning > > about that, but I think it should be pretty obvious that when you muck > > around in your system as root that you need to be careful, no? ;) > > Absolutely. > > However the expectations of a typical Linux user are: apt-get upgrade > should be harmless if my sources.list points to a stable release (such > as "mistral"). > > I think it is a bad idea to make your system work contrary to the user's > expectations. > > > Then again, having a package in the official maemo mistral repository > > that will break your device is very bad, too. "Someone should do > > something about this". Totally agree. It is very unfortunate that this happened. In addition, all package versions in the repository should have matched those on the device, since maemo2.0 is meant as a snapshot of Maemo components fully in sync with IT2006. It should have been so that running 'apt-get upgrade' on the device from the mistral repository would not pull in any new package version. > > I suggested on IRC yesterday to modify the postinst script of > maemo-af-desktop (or whatever the package that restarts an important > process and causes the lifeguard to reboot) to not stop/restart the > process. Consider gdm as an analogy in the big desktop world: I can > apt-get upgrade gdm in an xterm in a running X session, and the package > scripts do not kill/restart it in that case. I believe it's maemo-launcher. That's the only package apt will try upgrade when running 'apt-get upgrade' on the device from the mistral repository. This has been fixed in Sardine for the future. > (I'd be interested in experimenting with this if I had a spare Nokia 770 that > I wasn't afraid of breaking.) Try dual booting, see Marius's reply. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] The Sardine build robot is up again
Hi, Friday the Sardine build robot died (full disk...). The q-manager was messed up as well (not clear why). As a result there have been no updates to the Sardine repository and the RSS feed. The robot is now running again and updates are already showing up in the repository and in the RSS feed: http://repository.maemo.org/sardine/rss20.xml Best regards, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Modified initfs with onscreen boot menu
> Marius Vollmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Also, I already have a small UI improvement suggestion: what about > > always showing the boot menu, not only when you hit the MENU key? I > > tend to miss the window where the key needs to be pressed all the > > time. Maybe the menu could be shown when the root device is "ask"? > > Here is a small patch to implement this. > > --- bootmenu.sh 2006-08-13 10:50:06.0 +0300 > +++ bootmenu-ask.sh 2006-08-21 18:17:30.0 +0300 > @@ -110,8 +110,8 @@ > i=$((i+1)) > done > > -#show onscreeen menu if menu key was pressed > -if [ "$HWKEYSTATE" = "$KEY_MENU" ] ; then > +#show onscreeen menu if menu key was pressed or when the root device is "ask" > +if [ "$HWKEYSTATE" = "$KEY_MENU" -o "$default_root" = "ask" ] ; then > menu_init > menu_redraw > menu_loop Frantisek, Marius, that's fantastic work! This is a key piece of work to enable people to try out and follow up Sardine on the 770 without having to give up using it. I'm going to try it out ASAP :-) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo alarms ==> retutime
> >> - Second put that "internal" implementation somewhere so that it can be > >> enhanced and productised by the community, like e.g. Garage. > >> If you do not do so I see the danger that the community might not be > >> willing to wait for a next IT2007 edition which might eventually have > >> the framework in place (or may not). But instead we might end up with > >> double effort, i.e. the community develops such a framework, uses it > >> until you/Nokia release your version and the community version will > >> become obsolete - very annoying. > > > > Well, it all boils down to manpower. It might seem that it's an easy > > enough thing to just release things into the public and let the > > community to the rest, but everything has to go through the Nokia legal > > machinery before this can happen, thus the work needed is pretty > > significant. At the moment we prefer using our time to make the new > > alarm framework as good as possible (which will be properly documented). > > This is worrying me a lot. You're effectively saying "We don't want the > community to be involved". I'm pretty close to exchanging 'maemo' with > 'qtopia' (and vice versa) in this mail: > http://lists.trolltech.com/qtopia-interest/2006-06/msg0.html and > repost it to this list. > * Not at all. Community involvement is wanted and actively sought. As David pointed out legal due diligence is necessary and it can add some overhead and latency but it is not as bad as it sounds. We are currently developing a number of components in the open, meaning components for which every commit is done directly on a public SVN and releases are made from there. That includes many of the components of the Hildon Application Framework, which you can find here: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf We have recently setup a bleeding edge distro to allow people to follow the bleeding edge and participate. http://repository.maemo.org/sardine/ You can follow up what goes on in Sardine here: http://repository.maemo.org/sardine/rss20.xml Community involvement is most definitely wanted. Not every component in Maemo is currently developed in the open, but there is a clear trend of increasingly open development. As David pointed out, it takes time and effort to get there so please be patient. One great way to speed up the process is simply to get involved with the components that are already in open development, using them, reporting problem, suggesting improvements, sending patches. Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] library updates
> "ext Marius Vollmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I'd say now is a good time to start experimenting. I would be happy > > to add some hacks to the osso-application-installer in sardine... > > Ok, I am going to do the following (in the next days or so): the > "Check for updates" view will include a fake entry "Operating system" > and when updating that one you will get the something like "apt-get > upgrade". I will likely start just with upgrading all non-user > packages that can be upgraded without braking dependencies of user > packages (or something like that). > > All hidden (non-user) packages are considered part of the operating > system, so libeventdb would be upgraded although it is a third-party > package. Do you have a good solution for handling packages that cannot be upgraded while the HAF is running? Currently at least maemo-launcher falls in this category. I have listed in the Maemo Wiki [1] the current problems with upgrading Sardine on the 770, this seems to be the thorniest issue right now. I had a chat with Guillem some time ago. I got the picture that making maemo-launcher upgradeable without shutting down the HAF would be quite hard. So I've been thinking about a separate tool that would shut down the HAF and do the upgrade non-interactively, before starting the HAF again. I've just started hacking on something along these lines docked to the status bar. But maybe you have a better idea? Maybe we're being too pessimistic about the maemo-launcher? [1] http://maemo.org/maemowiki/SardineDistro ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] RSS 2.0 feed for Sardine package releases
Hi, For those interested in following the development of the Hildon Application Framework, we now have an RSS 2.0 feed [1] with a post for every package release going to Sardine [2], with the corresponding entry in the Debian changelog. [1] http://repository.maemo.org/sardine/rss20.xml [2] http://repository.maemo.org/sardine/ It's a quick hack I put together so it has its rough edges, but should be usable already. Comments and suggestions for improvement are very much welcome. Enjoy, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] The Sardine is finally on the grill
> > Now, The Sardine is finally on the grill! > > Great! > > Carlos, are there any plans to start organising the meetings we asked No concrete plans yet but a clear understanding that they are needed and will happen soon. > for during the BOF? I think the more early those get started, the > better. Agreed. One thing we need to do first and is on my todo list is to setup a page in the Maemo Wiki to present the results of the BOF and follow up the consequent action. I hope to have that done very soon. Br, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] The Sardine is finally on the grill
> Smells good, thanks :) :) > One more reason to have rootfs on mmc and dual boot working. Time to > hack initfs to boot from second (ext2) partition on my 1gig card. That would be really good to have. I'd definitely use it. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] The Sardine is finally on the grill
> Very cool! > > Great thing, thanks a lot! > That will definitely help. Let's just hope that the "regular users" We still have to make it happen. I hope enough Maemo developers get their hands on it so we can achieve and sustain enough interest and activity to keep it going and even grow in scope. We are piloting the use of Sardine for development of the HAF at Nokia, so there will be in any case Nokia people working with it and therefore finding and fixing its problems. But we need developers outside Nokia to join in, to really make it take off. At this point, what is really important is to try it out and report problems. Right now, the best place to do it is this list. > really get the "smell" and stay away (and so do not cause too many cries > for support). > I'm pretty sure they will stay away. The announcement and web pages are pretty discouraging for end users ;-) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] The Sardine is finally on the grill
Hi, A few weeks ago at GUADEC we had a Maemo/GNOME alignment BOF. The idea was to discuss the opportunities and challenges for better alignment of Maemo and GNOME, particularly in terms of interfaces and APIs. We certainly discussed many important and relevant aspects and ideas (more on that later). Interestingly, as you can see in the BOF notes (http://www.katix.org/gallery2/main.php? g2_view=core:ShowItem&g2_itemId=3846&g2_imageViewsIndex=3) the discussion moved often to the development environment: tools, documentation, infrastructure, and crucially visibility to the development process. It takes time to address all the issues. During the BOF we could announce the new contrib repository (http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ContribRepository) and the imminent launch of a bleeding edge distro: The Sardine. Now, The Sardine is finally on the grill! The Maemo Sardine (http://repository.maemo.org/sardine) is a fresh and tasty bleeding edge distribution of Maemo's Hildon Application Framework for the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet. The Sardine contains the latest versions of HAF components tagged in the stage.maemo.org subversion (https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf). It updates the Maemo 2.0 baseline with the very latest releases. It also contains recent versions of some other Maemo components that are HAF dependencies, notably connectivity components (https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity). The Sardine is by nature unstable and will often be badly broken and smelly. It is meant for application developers, hackers and tinkerers, not for end-users. If you want a reliable and usable tablet stay clear from the Sardine. The purpose of the Sardine is to: - Enable Maemo application developers to follow the latest changes to the HAF, so they can test their applications against the latest changes, update them as a result of any API changes and pilot the latest additions to the HAF APIs. All within a confortable timeframe before a stable release of the HAF for the end-users. - Enable anybody to participate in the development of the HAF and track its bleeding edge Interested? Check the Maemo Sardine web pages (http://repository.maemo.org/sardine) and try it out. We've created a wiki page on http://maemo.org/maemowiki/SardineDistro with the latest status and practical info on how to hack on The Sardine. Contributions are welcome. Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] GUADEC Maemo hack contest
Hi Maemo hackers, For the occasion of GUADEC 2006 (http://guadec.org/) in Vilanova i la Geltrú, Nokia Multimedia will award the best Maemo hacks by participants to the event. GUADEC happens between the 23rd and the 30th of June, you can still register here: http://guadec.org/GUADEC2006/registration. However, entries to the contest do not have to be developed there, it is enough that a member of the team is present at GUADEC to represent the entry and take the prize. The prizes are Nokia hardware, including Nokia 770 Internet Tablets. We'll announce the winners and hand out their prizes during GUADEC itself. The deadline for submissions is the 25th of June at midnight, Vilanova time. There's still time to work on that hack or even get started on a new one. For more details and information about how to apply checkout the contest rules: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/GuadecMaemoContestRules Happy hacking, Carlos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
