[Marxism] Get rid of capitalism? Millennials are ready to talk about it

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Wondering if anyone in NYC attended this event and if there will be an analysis?

 Get rid of capitalism? Millennials are ready to talk about it 
http://a.msn.com/00/en-us/AAuv5lU?ocid=se


Manuel Barrera, PhD
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Capital.150 part two: the economic reason for madness | Michael Roberts Blog

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Hi, Louis
My sense is that Roberts is correct on all points of Marxist economic theory, 
but I always get the impression that there is a "revolutionary spark" missing 
in his almost  ad nauseum focus on the falling rate of profit and the inablity 
of the capitalist mode of production to overcome it while the capitalists seem 
bent on avoiding that reality. In the meantime, the political situation 
deteroriates even further withDPRK v. Trump (and all the capitalists); 
impoverishment and seeming dystopia resulting from environmental neglect 
confronted by natural catastrophes; and the continued murderous rampage of the 
increasingly militarized State on  oppressed peoples. Perhaps it is unrealistic 
to ask for a revolutionary political strategy from political economist, but it 
seems that there needs to be, let's say, a better "revolutionary political 
critique" that bridges between the accuracy of Marxist economic thinking and an 
increasingly volatile and dangerous social and political situation. I'm not
  sure I'm up to such a task, but I think perhaps a combination of you, Mark 
(L.) and John (R.) might?
Just a thought.
best regards,
Manuel
PS: I recently met an intersting writer, Margie Newman, a daughter of a 
Holocaust survivor who came via Poland to Uruguay and then here. I mention her 
because she is also a graphic novelist working on both a humorous graphic novel 
involving Jewish "Communist 'Vacas' (cows)" and  a pair of over-sensitive oxen 
along with a personal memoir regarding her life as a daughter of a holocaust 
survivor and her experiences in a "socialist home" and her own involvement with 
"Marxist-Leninist" politics. She seemed a kindred spirit to you, so, I thought 
I'd mention it. I hope to find out her launch of the graphic novel and let you 
know about it if it interests you.  Comradely, MB

From: Marxism  on behalf of Louis Proyect 
via Marxism 
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:04 AM
To: mtom...@hotmail.com
Subject: [Marxism] Fwd: Capital.150 part two: the economic reason for madness | 
Michael Roberts Blog

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In which Roberts critiques David Harvey.

https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2017/09/23/capital-150-part-two-the-economic-reason-for-madness/
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Re: [Marxism] [UCE] Re: Rhode Island Socialists split from Socialist Alternative

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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"Capitalism creates structured capital and labor markets, and differential
standards of living, by ethnicity and nation - and by gender." (sic)

sounds good, thanks.

However, wouldn't  pointing out that "mean White people" will still "fuck 
things up. Because of their ideas [read their primarily male history of 
privilege]" will not be ended simply because the material basis behind gender 
and race oppression had been "exposed"? Indeed, wouldn't it take even more 
revolutionary struggle that would only begin with the elimination of the 
capitalist mode of production because "mean White . . . ideas" would still 
prevail over generations? Isn't this observation at least partially apparent in 
the struggles with race and gender oppression in revoutionary Cuba?
I think the observation of the materialist basis of gender and racial 
oppression is insufficient a basis to engage in solidarity and struggle with 
oppressed peoples. We are not "sections" that simply require to be 
"intersectioned". The whole basis of "intersectionality" itself seems a rather  
a "mean White" construct to align White progressive sensibilities with 
"solidarity" with oppressed peoples.  If we are in fact one (working) class, 
why should "we" be conceptualized into sections and reconciled into a framework 
of "intersectionality"?  Such a concept wreaks of that liberal "otherism" idea. 
I almost (only "almost") prefer somebody to argue we are only one "class" than 
such a liberal "Marxist" framework delimiting women and other oppressed peoples 
as "sections" of th working class.

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[Marxism] [UCE] Re: Rhode Island Socialists split from Socialist Alternative

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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"and explicitly state that when all is said and done, when
class is exposed or eliminated, mean white people will still fuck things up
- because of their ideas."
Yes, Andrew. And, your problem with that point is?

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[Marxism] Question: Class nature of the Antifa?

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Hi, Louis and all
I have been following the escalating developments of the antifa and noted how 
some otherwise promising activists may be lured into this ultraleft trap.
I was wondering if anyone here has knowledge or writings regarding the class 
nature of the current antifa? I am most interested in who these people are in 
the U.S. but would be interested in any analyses that have been conducted 
around the world? I am not really that interested in the "basics" of works on 
ultraleftism or even historical accounts from previous eras as important and 
useful as those are (know a bit about those already). I am more interested in 
knowing if anyone has examined the material bases for the current "crop" of 
people involved. This force seems to be attracting young activists and others 
emerging into activism. It seems useful to understand what is taking place here.
I'll appreciate your thinking on this issue.
Manuel Barrera
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Re: [Marxism] Marxism Digest, Vol 166, Issue 33

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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I'd be interested to know if Malik still holds his opinion from that 1975 
article or has helped to set Solidarity's approach today?
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The tragedy of Venezuela | Michael Roberts

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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John says: "I think it is correct to characterize the regime there as 
bonepartist.

Chavez rose to power based on the support of a layer of mid and lower level
military officers. He never had the support of the Venezuelan capitalist
class, but neither was he based on the organizations of the working class.
In other words, he hovered above or between the classes."

Roberts doesn't seem to make any political characterizations, but does throw 
his economist weight behind the undermining of the Maduro administration all 
under the framework of a "discussion" not of Maduro's capitalsit machinations 
but on the event of the Constituuent Assembly. Reimann follows suit, not 
discussing the Constituent Assembly but whether Maduro is revolutionary (he's 
not) and the capitalist nature of his government (more aptly The government of 
which he is president).
It may sound all revolutionary to criticize Maduro and his ostensible 
"bonapartist regime". Indeed, it is an accurate appraisal to state that the 
present Chavista-based government is a capitalist state resting on its support 
by the military and feigning alliance with workers and the oppressed.

However, NONE of that is really the point. What of the Constituent Assembly as 
an answer to the rightist movement of the bosses seeking hegemony within the 
present government? What should working people, and revolutionaries, do. Right 
now? Oppose the Constituent Assembly because it isn't creating "dual power" or 
doing some other "more revolutionary" thing?

In truth, it is fairly safe to "characterize" Maduro and even critically 
support his government against imperialist and rightwing attempts to undermine 
it. But what does the Constituent Assembly represent, not for Maduro or the 
right wing, but for the masses of Venezuela? Are we to arrive at some "sideline 
armchair quarterbacking" to criticize an effort that at the least seeks to find 
representation in government for the masses? Should revolutionaries revert to 
the time-honored litmus-testing about how this particular "answer" to right 
wing and imperialist attack simply isn't good enough for "our support"? Or, 
should revolutionaries seek to use this event of constituent assembly to press 
forward stronger, more democratic, economic, and political mobilzations of the 
masses in their (our) interests? What is happening in Venezuela is not some 
"lesser-evilism" electoral campaign but a protracted struggle in which the 
masses are indeed marginalized by the capitalist class And by the Chavi
 sta government and military. I see the Constituent Assembly as an avenue to 
pursue political efforts at mobilizing the masses. They must be mobilized, 
however, For Something. Either some idealistic notion of a (non-existent 
currently) "workers and people's government" , the Chavista government or the 
Capriles rightist movement to undermine the Chavistas. Working people do not 
have the "luxury" to choose and revolutionaries should not be so arrogant--and 
treacherous--as to have an  uncategorical answer.
We Need To Support the Constituent Assembly AND, to the extent that Maduro and 
his ilk support it, we need to stand against imperialism and their agents in 
Venezuela as they try to engage an Allende-like coup.

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Neoliberalism is creating loneliness. That’s what’s wrenching society apart | George Monbiot | Opinion | The Guardian

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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"a war of everyone against themselves"
Of major importance to revolutionaries is the increasing prospect that every 
measure, every act of political and social depravity of the capitalists and 
their government becomes more difficult to mobilize against. It is really no 
wonder that the "established left", young and old, has remained so ineffectual 
in connecting with emerging movements and our ability to help galvanize these 
actions with mass action-oriented leadership. The next several actions, 4/15 
(yesterday), 4/21, 4/29, and May day will be important to watch.
As always has been true, getting out in the streets has become the necessary 
point of departure. However, NOT the "small but spirited" type of the sectarian 
left, but of the messy more limited political type that mark the naivete and 
emerging thinking of the masses. I believe today that if we are not out there 
with people who are shouting "release your taxes" and deliberately explaining 
how such demands are not enough (rather than, for example, just writing posts 
on FB about it, helpful as that may be) then we will continue to see the 
"correctness"of our perspective fall on deaf ears. We need to find a way to the 
"commons". Otherwise, the working class will stay atomized subservient to the 
liberal (and later the reactionary) bourgeois. Amazing the small lessons we can 
find in history. For wasn't that the essential lesson of Russia 1905 to 1917?
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[Marxism] Question about IZA-Institute of Labor Economics

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Hello, I wonder if any on this list can provide information on a German-based 
foundation, IZA-Institute of Labor Economics. Here is the website: 
https://www.iza.org/en/about

They just published an interesting (sounding) study on the role of "Same race" 
teachers and educational outcomes, specifically among Black U.S. students (cf. 
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/study-black-students-from-poor-families-are-more-likely-to-graduate-high-school-if-they-have-at-least-one-black-teacher/ar-BBzBuQy?li=BBnbcA1).
 However, in their description they tout their interests as "building a bridge 
between science and society. We want to facilitate the communication of 
existing knowledge while at the same time stimulating research to close 
knowledge gaps. We see this approach as complementary to purely academic 
research. The transfer of scientific knowledge is an important task which has 
often been undervalued in traditional research and requires extra efforts." 
They also say they are seeking "to achieve a fair balance between individual 
wealth and societal wealth. In light of rapidly developing technological 
innovations and changing social policy needs, the search for eff
 ective solutions will remain a continuous challenge."


My  interest here is to find on-the-ground background knowledge about their 
credibility regarding their findings and their intents regarding the study I 
mentioned before about Black students benefiting from Black teachers. I'm sure 
some of you may simply think the issue is too much "identity politics". If so, 
just ignore the post and go about your business. Those of you who may some 
information, I would greatly appreciate it.

MB

[http://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBzBuQu.img]

Study: Black students from poor families are more likely to graduate high 
school if they have at least one black 
teacher
www.msn.com
The results are most marked for male African American students from very 
low-income families, the Johns Hopkins research finds.


IZA - Institute of Labor Economics
www.iza.org
IZA is an independent economic research institute that conducts research in 
labor economics and offers evidence-based policy advice on labor market issues.




Manuel Barrera, PhD
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: How Things Hang Together | Articles | Inference: International Review of Science

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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"I've never seen so many non sequiturs, debater's tricks . . ."
My very short commentary was not really intended to debate you, Andrew. Simply 
to point out that just because a scientist tries to explain the whole of 
science doesn't absolve one of the context he is writing within. Science 
doesn't happen in a vaccuum it isn't "blind" (postivism) and unbiased, and, 
therefore, one who hopes to explain "science's" patterns should recognize any 
theory he develops is going to be at one abstract and subject his limitations. 
I found the paper interesting, but not really as laudable as you seem to think.

Your defensiveness about being a White male (and looking for other White male 
experts to "set me straight") only proves my point. I got the impression you 
were trying to make yourself appear "intellectual" and informed in your overly 
idolatrous commentary, so, I am sorry if I struck a nerve (seems to be 
happening with more frequency these days). I suppose you may believe that my 
"short contribution" was trying somehow to denounce Scialabba's review of 
Watson's book and Watson's book and take them on with petty debater's tricks. 
It was nothing of the sort and simply observing the nature of this kind of 
discourse--it is constrained by White male bias despite your wishing such 
intellectualism were somehow free and untouched by our social order--is not 
something I at least am willing to accept given this social order. And, you are 
 correct that I harbor an antagonism to White people thinking that they have a 
franchise on the truth just because they get to write and be all intellectual wi
 th so much more recognition and, you know, attention and cash, than too many 
people of color who may have similar or, horror of horrors, different than the 
established discourse.

It is endemic to the discourse of even the best political left (which I do 
count you among) to believe that White people have so much more to contribute 
to ideas "in general" that aren't seen as  directly the purview of the 
oppressed, which, of course, that same White political left take such great 
pains to ally themselves because, after all, you are Marxists and can't afford 
to appear uncaring of "our" interests even if "we" don't really have that much 
to say on such matters as "big history" and whether or not "convergent 
patterns" are, you know, a thing.

Finally, you may be tempted to observe that none of what I said above appears 
to have much to do with the actual ideas within Scialabba's review or of 
Watson's book and, therefore, appears "non sequitur" or irrelevant. That is 
largely your fault and more broadly the fault of the White political left who 
demonstrate with every word their utter arrogance about the "common enterprise" 
we--you all and, you know, the oppressed--supposedly share. It is quite easy 
for you to appear all "solidarity" when you perceive the oppressed to need you, 
but your color (or lack of it) always tends to show at those times when you 
believe "we" (that's the oppressed in case you can't follow) really aren't 
reading or have little to understand never mind say. I can understand why many 
people of color (and women for that matter) tend to just "skulk" on some of 
these lists because it can be disheartening and frustrating to raise an opinion 
among the more "erudite" (read, the more able to be published and hear
 d). You can largely accept differences of opinion or even be enthralled with 
the opinions people of color if they are from other countries, especially if 
they coincide with your way of thinking, but let anyone raise a point, any 
point, if they are to "close" to you but have the wrong color (or name), then, 
we are just engaging in non-sequitur, debater's tricks, and irrelevancies 
(after all, what else could we be doing since we don't really know anything). 
You probably can't even imagine how tiring it gets to feel you have to write 
more just to defend yourself to have an opinion and really have so little 
opportunity to discuss actual ideas when you are assaulted with banalities and 
racist antagonism simply because you made an observation that didn't set well 
with the more "knowledgeable" in our midst. You probably don't even believe I 
have any will to say anything else than to decry the racist hostility of the 
"progressive" Marxist left. I have much to say, but I actually refuse to d
 o so because such racist antagonism (and I a!
 m using the term consciously and in its true scientific meaning) leaves me 
cold and unfeeling to your and such people's sensibilities. I find it 
therapeutic to lambaste your racially founded antagonisms than to engage you 

Re: [Marxism] Fwd: What is to be done? An invitation for submissions to North Star

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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My reply on the North Star:
I invite any of you out there to examine this question and post, discuss, and  
submit your thinking to multiple venues. I believe the The North Star Network 
is an open space for multiple perspectives. However, here are my initial 
comments:

1. it is is well and good for people to talk, to analyze, and think broadly 
about what "should be done". But it CANNOT be "done" in contradiction to 
ongoing action. There is collectively a "mass ferment" as well as a mass level 
of shock and paralysis as even our largest actions seem (I say "seem") unable 
to keep Trump and his willing (and unwilling) accomplices (Republican and 
Democrat) from rushing headlong into barbarism and the dismantling of 
democratic rights and protections. It is at one most uncomfortable for some 
sections of the capitalist class to try  to roll back class relations to before 
thee 1930's and at the same time, the capitalists see this event of Trumpism as 
a singular opportunity to do that very thing. The reformist-minded rulers 
(headed by the Democrats of all ilk) likely fear that such a rollback is not 
possible because they fear the backlash of the masses to defend Our gains. 
Trump and his followers are, in fact, calling our "bluff" betting that mass 
discontent
  will be quelled by a combination of Trump-inspired repression and the 
Democratic Party's historic role in encompassing mass movements and dissipating 
them into support for "realistic" electoral politics. In short, Trump and the 
Democrats hope to use the next four to eight years to effect a new era of  
"class peace" where all of US can learn to expect even less than what we've 
become increasingly used to accepting today. We Must Not talk and stop acting. 
Even directionless, the mass movements that are emerging create a different 
context. Indeed, the recent "debate" within the Democratic Party National 
Committee to elect a new chair received far too much attention by people who 
were just a month ago in the streets beginning to feel our power. "Discussing 
and analyzing" devoid of action, no matter how less effective such action might 
be without leadership, creates breathing room for the oppressors. Those of us 
who see ourselves as revolutionaries must continue to participate in every 
 form of struggle no matter how small or seem!
 ingly insignificant. In this period, every struggle, every town hall meeting, 
every issue becomes a basis to "stop Trump", which equals today to meaning stop 
capitalism's assaults.

2. Those of us who consider ourselves "leftists" or socialists need to unite 
not simply "in spite" of our differences, but BECAUSE of our differences. We 
need to show the masses both how to fight and how to make united decisions, 
especially when we disagree. The Trumps and the Democrats have historically 
relied (knowingly and unknowingly) on this very real propensity of internecine 
warfare "in the streets" among those who have become moved to oppose them. 
Indeed, the rise of the trade union bureaucracy during earlier revolutionary 
times has been a model, not necessarily fomented by the rulers but certainly 
been used to their advantage. The ruling class has historically had a singular 
weapon of mass (movement) destruction; their ability to open and close the 
"spigot" of reforms that created the material basis to buy off large sections 
of the working masses that allowed for the dissipation of mass movements. 
Capitalist greed is inexorable, but it is wholly capable of using its greed--a
 nd its vast stores of accumulation--to protect and defend itself. Its best 
weapon is that which can foment discord and disruption among the revolutionary 
class across all its potential fault lines of division. The longer we take--as 
potential revolutionaries--to find a way to unite in discussion, debate, 
decision-making and ACTION, the longer it will take to overcome the "crisis of 
leadership" of the masses that so many have "analyzed" is a problem. The 
results of our inability to unite are already apparent; they are bloody and the 
more consciously we refuse to change, the more that blood is also on our hands.

3. While there is not as yet an effective and permeating fascist threat, the 
attempts by Trump and his base of highly ignorant and fearful "petit bourgeois 
and lumpens" to create an "authoritarian" state raise the real possibility of 
such a fascist movement. That movement of reaction will NOT look like Hitler's 
fascism or Mussolini's or even of previous "American" attempts. However, such a 
movement will SURELY be aided by a) the continued "leaderlessness" of mass 
ferment b) the resulting 

Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Jaco in the bin | s0metim3s

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Sorry, the sentence I wrote "This call for rationalism has a long history, but 
if you aren't White, you are not likely to see through it very well." SHOULD 
have read "This call for rationalism has a long history, but if you are White, 
you are not likely to see through it very well."

Apologies for the miscommunication, but thoroughly unapologetic for the 
admonition.


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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Jaco in the bin | s0metim3s

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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There is much to object within the Jacobin article, but I believe this 
penultimate statement really indicates their equivocal--and, therefore, 
panderingly liberal racist--position, as it were, "If a class-based, antiracist 
bloc can be built at all, it can only be done gradually, trusting in people’s 
inherent capacity to develop a different understanding of the world.

It’s a narrow path, and it won’t always be pleasant. But left politics have 
never been the sanitized efforts of pure conscience and saintly devotion that 
we are all tempted to believe in at times. Creating a different kind of 
movement will take time and, more importantly, patience. Racist or xenophobic 
sentiments exist, not as essential personality traits but as attitudes that can 
change through experience. Those need to be addressed, but they can be opposed 
effectively only on a basis of solidarity and mutual trust."

Of course, on the "face" of it, the quote above seems really devoid of context 
so  that my stating it alone would appear "cherry-picking" and, after all, some 
of you of the more melanin-deprived (yes, that's you, White people) may find 
the quote truly reasonable hearkening to the need for "patiently explaining" we 
might get schooled from a Bolshevik or two. Of course it seems so because 
Jacobin's writers are much more sophisticated in their descent to worrying 
about rightist "populism". Their writing is much more disingenuous than that 
because it seems clear, at least to me, that they may actually believe that 
their patience-for-the-masses argument is, you know, a thing. For example, they 
actually begin their slippery slope into liberal racism much earlier in the 
article with, first, "lecturing" us all with a righteous appeal for "coalition 
building" with the admonition,  "It is in this climate that the fight over 
Wagenknecht’s comments has evolved from a conflict over policy into an 
existential choice that will make or break the German left. Party members 
should reject the racism and xenophobia that undergirds AfD’s appeal (and that 
some see creeping into Wagenknecht’s rhetoric). But they also need to recognize 
that strong political coalitions and social movements are built by working with 
voters, many of whom hold less than perfectly antiracist views — not lecturing 
them."

Thus, the argument starts with their concern for "working with voters" whom are 
"less than perfect" in their anti-racism (you do know that because the article 
discusses such issues as open vs. "controlled" borders that the less than 
perfect anti-racism is the fear of refugees and the nativist arguments against 
them, right?).
Next, there is the problem of "left essentialism" where the exuberance of youth 
among emerging new activist such as those around Die Linke becomes a brake on 
the development of these "coalitions" with the more backward fearful layers of 
White German workers, among others with their "less than perfect" jingoistic 
"anti-racism" (otherwise known as bourgeois liberalism) "Perhaps due to the 
academic, middle-class milieu from which many Die Linke radicals emerge, its 
younger activists in particular tend to accept a false dichotomy of either 
ignoring people’s concerns or engaging with them at the price of adopting a 
“right-wing” language and accept an inherently racist framework."

So, by the end, Schmitz doesn't really have to say we need "controlled borders" 
or, even, that the Wagenknacht's are justified. No, "the reader" is left to 
one's own devices to draw conclusions, but those conclusions clearly seem to be 
for "all us" to be reasonable. After all, who on the "left" doesn't want to see 
"mass coalitions" and win over the "less than perfect" (almost) anti-racists 
who may, right now, want to close borders or "control", or, more to the point, 
vote for a rightwing populist?

This call for rationalism has a long history, but if you aren't White, you are 
not likely to see through it very well. M.L. King once bemoaned the need to be 
salvaged from the machinations of White liberals. The reason why we can't bring 
together "mass coalitions" is because young people are too willing to create 
"false dichotomies". We shouldn't be so brazen as to declare for "border 
controls" but we can "see" that people like Wagenknacht (or, you know, Obama, 
Clinton, the AFL-CIO) are simply trying "work with voters" with "less than 
perfect" (anti-)racism.

Given all that "reason", why am I not surprised that our hapless liberal 
"Marxists" here want to engage in a "scientific" debate on the true motives of 
Jacobin, or one of its writers (presumably peer-reviewed and published for the 
paper's 

Re: [Marxism] A new workers party: "Blueprint" or Perspectives?

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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I'm game for trying  anything anytime that does not involve creating a new 
bible. I have serious doubts our heretofore sectarian grouplets will somehow 
overcome themselves, but life always has a tendency to surprise you.

I remain looking . . . revolutionaries sometimes are marked by our patience 
rather than our impatience.


Mark : "I'm sure that several of us who have no organizational dog in this 
fight would be quite happy to help ease this process . . . entirely informally 
and with no formal assignment or title or credit.  We just want this thing 
done."

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Re: [Marxism] further on Vzla's CLAPs and reporting

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Gracias, Michael, ambos VA y aporrea.org son sitios buenos y lo que estaba 
buscando. Análisis en español e inglés (desde venezolanos) son importantes que 
siempre anglos y "americanos" (aunque mejico-americanos) no encontramos. He 
añadido los dos a mis favoritos para revisar.


What is difficult is that I am reluctant to share some of these articles on my 
pages, the "Slow CLAP for Buzzfeed" article took awhile to download, but was 
well worth it, because I suspect that there are "obstacles" to allowing fast 
transmission speeds. It may not be a problem (I tried to review these from a 
coffee shop and will try again when I get to my own network). An 
opinion/analysis in Aporrea from Alí Anzola Escorche 
(http://www.aporrea.org/ideologia/a239238.html) was instructive in 
understanding some of the thinking among the people behind these sites. It 
seems clear a) that there is a myopia/deliberate blindness presented in the 
U.S./European media about the capitalist attempts to impoverish Venezuelan and 
b) that there seems an interesting development among Venezuelans, including the 
current government, to address the crisis by creating alternative processes. It 
is of course untenable and can be dangerous: both Chilean-style coup or 
Cuban-style revolution are possible.
I knew if I asked someone here would open the viewing frame for me.

Thanks and Solidarity,

Manuel

[http://www.aporrea.org/imagenes/2012/07/ali_facebook.jpg]

Venezuela y la búsqueda de la alternativa ante la debacle del 
Capitalismo
www.aporrea.org
"La razón última de todas las crisis reales es siempre la pobreza y la 
limitación del consumo de las masas frente a la tendencia de la producción 
capitalista a desarrollar las fuerzas prod...





From: Marxism  on behalf of michael a. 
lebowitz via Marxism 
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2016 12:46:56 PM
To: mtom...@hotmail.com
Subject: [Marxism] further on Vzla's CLAPs and reporting

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https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/12856

--
-
Michael A. Lebowitz
Professor Emeritus
Economics Department
Simon Fraser University
 University Drive
Burnaby, B.C., Canada V5A 1S6
Home:   Phone 604-689-9510
Cell: 604-789-4803


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[Marxism] Venezuela: Military Trafficking Food as Country Goes Hungry

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Hello, anyone following this crisis? I'd like to read analyses from 
revolutionaries if possible.

via Venezuela: Military Trafficking Food as Country Goes Hungry - NBC News 
Discussions

http://newsdef.nbcnews.com/_news/2016/12/29/36533972-venezuela-military-trafficking-food-as-country-goes-hungry?d=1

nbcnews.com

Sent by Outlook for Android
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Beware of Defense Intellectuals - The Chronicle of Higher Education

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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question: wouldn't Noam Chomsky be considered such a defense intellectual, 
especially in light of the recent analysis by Christopher Knight on Chomsky's 
research on linguistics supported by the Defense establishment?


[Ron] Robin, a cultural historian and president of the University of
Haifa, has written a dual biography of Albert and Roberta Wohlstetter, a
couple who loomed large among policy thinkers during the Cold War.


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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: No concern for the opposition

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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" I could have found other aging radicals like me to write for North Star who 
would have met with your approval but I have another agenda."
First, I, for one am glad to see Michael's post. It is one of the great aspects 
of the North Star that there are activists, whom we were once very much like, 
willing simply to say what they need to say and say it forcefully without 
decorum.
Second, I see Michael's points as more of a call to arms rather than a call to 
cuss. I believe he is dead on to call out the timidity of the liberals but ,as 
is patently clear from some the "claptrap" denouncing his post here, it is not 
only bourgeois liberals but "aging radicals" (sic in some cases) who seem think 
that we will win the struggle for liberation from capitalism with well-chosen 
verbiage and erudite logic, the "sophisticated" turn of phrase. Claptrap 
indeed. What Michael, in my view, is saying is that the gloves need to come 
off, both in our styles of debate, but also in the streets. What do you think? 
That we're going to "challenge" the "alt-right" with well-chosen demands and 
inspiring speeches? That the masses are just going to step in line once we stop 
"maligning" and "organize"? Organize what? Good informational picket lines and 
orderly marches? Organize whom? Nice liberals who want to "disagree but not be 
disagreeable" and "workers" in union jackets behind their lo
 cal banners? Do you really believe that is what a struggle for power is 
actually going to look like? More important, do you really believe that we did 
"back when" is going work now? With young people on the bring of lunacy in 
Black and Brown communities under jackboots of police occupations, with young 
women who now believe that they are threatened with sexual abuse and harassment 
without seeming impunity? With immigrant workers and their families feeling 
under threat of deportation; as the most desirable outcome in the face of right 
wing and police--and governmental--complicity? Or how about all us "aging 
radicals" along with our generations under the threat of poverty and misery as 
the social contract for the elderly and the infirm is shredded before our eyes?
Do you really believe that it will take all of us being "nice" and get along 
with each other to show that we are the "better people"?

I for one am with Michael and his generation. We Need To Fight and We Need To 
Fight Dirty and Mean and By Any Means Necessary.

But, please, by all means, continue with lovely turns of phrases and "strong 
economic analyses" demonstrating (sic) how much better educated you are than 
the monsters baring their teeth in front of us.
Perhaps you will create enough of a distraction so that the actual organized 
masses, led by the Michaels and Brandys, the Black Lives youth and the Dream 
Defenders can come behind or flank them. With swords drawn.

The "siempre" in La Victoria is about Amandla, not "speaking truth to power"

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Why "Lesser Evilism" Is a Loser | Solidarity

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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"Lesser evil is a losing strategy. It paves the way for greater evils." (Stein)

Stein should pay attention to herself regarding the larger treachery of lesser 
evilism in supporting Russia and the Dictator Al Assad.

With every good point, she diminishes what it means to fight for independent 
political action by accepting the treachery of the Baathist-supporting pretend 
"Left". Stein remains the best chance to dismantle the Democratic Party and 
mount a veritable resistance to Democratic and Republican reaction that will 
surely come regardless which candidate the capitalist class chooses and the 
masses are forced yet again to choose between no choice and no choice at all. 

We can only hope that the Green Party will create a space--if  only in the 
elections--for galvanizing the mass movement that is sure to come as Black and 
Brown people, women, and youth--within the working class--yet again are faced 
with the combined assaults from all the politicians representing capitalism; 
including Sanders and all those that thought that supporting the Democrats was 
a "last stand" against reaction. Like Custer before them, such people will be 
left defending each other as the masses overtake them. History will not be kind 
and neither will the revolutionary masses. 
And, like the Sioux and  indigenous nations before us, it is not written that 
we will be victorious immediately. But, we can only be inspired by the first 
nations at Standing Rock fighting for the simple right to drink water. Native 
peoples have founded a unity that has inspired and caused reverberations 
throughout the working class (indicated by the recoil of labor misleaders who 
have pinned their hopes with their capitalist masters). Young Black and White 
athletes have found a way to express how they are affected by the police 
occupation of oppressed communities. Instead of 2 Black youth and one White 
youth on a podium at the Olympics registering resistance and solidarity, we now 
have hundreds at a multitude of sporting events registering the mass discontent 
with injustice. The storm is coming and we have to recognize it. The aftermath 
is not a victory inevitable, but the mounting of a struggle is.

I suggest that internationalism will be the proving ground. Being "anti-war" in 
this coming period will not be divorced from the revolutionary struggle against 
dictators, right wing religious and non-religious reactionaries, and the 
governments of the imperialist bourgeoisie who keep them in power (indeed if it 
ever was). Either Stein will learn this hard lesson or she will be swept aside 
by better leaders emanating from mass struggles. 

As ever, solidarity with the oppressed and remaining on the side of workers and 
the oppressed of all countries, will determine whether one is actually a 
leftist or if the term becomes arcane and undescriptive of revolutionary 
politics.   
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Re: [Marxism] Sexism and turning people off (was I suspect a lot of Syrians . . .)

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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" I know he wants to take me down because of my opposition to Stein, but this 
is not the right way to do it."
Yeah, nobody wants to take you down. Nobody needs to do so.
Posting the following On THIS Discussion to honor Louis' point about laying off 
the 2016 election, which I take to mean not engaging in whether Marxists should 
endorse a capitalist candidate. This is me NOT discussing that. 
>From Cindy Sheehan, a woman revolutionary with her own spotty record on many 
>issues including race but I have found that often knows what to say and whose 
>side. Wish Cindy would play a role here. However, much of the present 
>discussion on sexism--and racism--likely prevents honest women and men of 
>color from engaging this kind of list. 

I offer Cindy's words just so  you see what we're missing 
sometimes.http://cindysheehanssoapbox.blogspot.com/2016/09/this-labor-day-we-must-fight-for.html
Excerpt: "What would a worker's movement look like? I believe that it would be 
free from the capitalist parties of War and Wall Street and be oriented around 
working-peoples' issues--not just workers in the US, but workers around this 
planet that is mostly under the boot heel of US imperialism. The Wobblies say, 
"an injury to one is an injury to all," but in the realm of "Big Labor" I see 
very little solidarity with the people in the Arab world that are being 
murdered and displaced at a very alarming rate. Instead, I see complete 
solidarity with the Imperialists.I think most of us in the 99% can rally around 
workers' issues that would not only improve our lives, but create a world free 
from imperialism and savage capitalism if they are explained in ways that are 
constructive and not destructive. "  
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Clay--and everyone--it is difficult not to get incensed when such issues as 
giving critical support to an imperialist warmonger (because you fear a 
potential fascist imperialist warmonger) on one hand and the fear that the 
bourgeois elections may actually initiate a new wave of repression and 
state-sanctioned racist slaughter at the hands of police at the behest of 
capitalist government on the other. 

Let me assure you, Clay. It is likely that this wave of racist mayhem will 
continue--regardless who is elected--because it is in the interests of the 
capitalist class to foment ever more strident divisions and perpetuate the 
facade of both White and U.S. working class privilege (among all "colors").  
If you truly consider yourself a Marxist, you would understand that very 
warranted fear of yours has a material basis and not one based on the person in 
power. You should easily see that if you've even casually observed the last 8 
years through the leadership of capitalism from a Black president. 
The only reason that this racism and slaughter will abate is if the masses 
finally step into the picture saying we have had Enough! It is not the small 
population of true racists in the U.S. that is likely to hold sway, but the 
will--hampered by state-developed confusion, miseducation, and media 
manipulation--of the vast majority of working people--ESPECIALLY the Oppressed 
who need to come to the fore. That is why the focus on Clinton and not on 
Trump. There is no blind spot here; Only fear. 
The historical crisis of leadership of the working masses is not just an 
observation but a firm reality. Ask yourself how supporting Clinton will remove 
the blinders from this fact? Ask yourself how you can so clearly see the 
relevance and bravery of the Syrian masses to the actual anti-imperialist 
struggle and not see the blunder in supporting the imperialist demagogue 
Clinton because you fear she will be less a threat than the racist demagogue 
Trump? Neither of these individuals matters because what they both stand to 
support is the same class rule, the same need to divide the masses, the same 
need to intensify the militarization and occupation of the oppressed in this 
country, and the continued need to produce new opportunities for profitability 
at the expense of the people of the world and of our planet. 

Unfortunately, I don't expect you to change your mind; you seem too bent on 
your fears and blindness. I just hope you will still end up on the side of the 
working class when this reality sets in. It is likely that Clinton will win and 
apparently you--and your fear and blindness--will have contributed. It is 
likely to happen because the masses, right now, will believe you when you say 
that there truly is a "lesser evil" when there is actually not. 

Just remember to return to the side of the oppressed when you are done. You're 
no more of a "diva" than most of the other folk here (including our moderator), 
 but please remember that treachery is also a material, class-based phenomenon. 
It is NEVER about what you say, but about what you do--or did. The road to 
betrayal is paved by a single word. Or vote. Redemption requires a history of 
effort. Just remember.
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Re: [Marxism] Who are the Melungeons?

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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"but I would suggest that this is a powerful theme for an epic novel'

Funny you should say that, Louis. . . 
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Re: [Marxism] My critique of Jill Stein on Syria and then some...

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Clay: "Well, the battle lines are being drawn and everybody is being forced to 
take a side. There are the 1) Trump forces, 2) Anti-Trump forces and 3)
Anti-Hilllary forces. Comes November only one side can win."


That's exactly the problem with your position, Clay. You seem to think that the 
election is some kind of battle between "good and evil". I would call it a 
status update where the motion toward independent political action on the part 
of the oppressed and working people is going to be at that juncture. The degree 
to which campaigns like Jill Stein affect the elections at all will be a much 
better measure of the potential for actual struggle than whether Trump or 
Clinton get elected. I know you believe in the fear-mongering. To paraphrase 
brother Muhammad Ali, We've been in jail for 400 years and we've been afraid of 
reaction and racism since the 60's (at least). It's time we bust out, stop 
being afraid at what "they'll" do to us because they're going to do it no 
matter what. It's time we made a stand and stop making fear our political 
strategy. Long past time. Stop cowering and stand up. 

It's the only way.
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Re: [Marxism] Syria 10; Spics 0

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Louis: " Joaquin was always in tune with the Cuban and Venezuelan line on Libya 
and Syria"

Joaquín, say it isn´t so?! Really, say it. If true, you really should know much 
better, but I would want to know how you could justify supporting the Despot 
against his own masters.
Amith, check the bourgeois national chauvinism. Joaquín is Puerto Rican, I am 
Chicano, there are a few White guys playing pretend "Mexicans" on this list 
and, you know, Cuba if full of Cubans. Such racist epithets only expose your 
backwardness and render anything you say insupportable. 
   
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Should Syria be a litmus test for the left in the 2016 elections? | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Louis: "At the risk of alienating people who I have strong affinities with, it  
is necessary for me to explain why support Jill Stein even though her VP 
candidate Ajamu Baraka is someone I have described as a “pro-Baathist hack”."

My Reply to Louis' post:
 I will vote for Stein--if she is on my MN ballot--but I will not campaign for 
a stupid person who cannot see the problem with supporting Putin and the Syrian 
regime; both in her own equivocal actions (e.g., her participating in a panel 
organized by the pro-Syrian "left") and her choice of Baraka as VP. Dr. Stein's 
best credentials are that she is a scientist and intellectual who is much more 
on the side of the working masses and is running an independent campaign. Yet, 
Louis, you are willing to excuse her treacherous positions despite her clear 
ability to think "on her feet" and understand much of the world's and domestic 
politics. I am unconvinced that Stein will be moved to be a true 
internationalist in the face of the eventual turning of the tide in support of 
the Syrian people's democratic revolution. 

That tide will turn and it will overwhelm all the traitors and nascent 
neo-liberals in the so-called leftist anti-interventionist camp. That tide will 
not be from the pretend leftists or intellectually-challenged "independents" 
who prefer to err on the "domestic" anti-capitalist agenda, but from the 
world's working masses including immigrants, refugees, and oppressed people's 
of the U.S. I believe people like Stein, and definitely Baraka (who was a 
demagogue in his early years never mind now), will have no answer to the 
righteous revolt of the true left that will eventually emerge. Such people will 
likely oppose such a revolutionary tide because it will be too "confusing" for 
their feeble political will. 
What makes Stein's campaign important is that it is the best shot and building 
an independent anti-capitalist ELECTORAL alternative. Indeed, should Stein's 
campaign truly determine the outcome of this bourgeois election and is 
successful in preventing Clinton from gaining the presidency, I would consider 
it a victory (as in Malcolm's words, "praying for a wind" when the master's 
house is on fire). But Stein's campaign is ONLY an electoral alternative and 
the Green Party, along with Stein, have no hope of creating a true mass 
alternative (never mind anti-capitalist) party. 
Clay Claiborne recently asked on Marxmail about the numbers of Black people in 
the GP. Mark Lause replied with the observation about the uneven nature of the 
Greens and its primarily electoral focus (that said, the emergence of GP 
chapters that are primarily Black is indeed promising nevertheless). 
Louis, you spend much time trying to connect earlier 3rd party attempts, 
especially the Wallace campaign, that No One but the oldest of us has any real 
shared experience. Your argument, "'we' messed up earlier, so, let's not mess 
up now" and "if I had been around in 1948, I would have supported Wallace" are, 
let's just say, unconvincing. You have absolutely No Idea what you actually 
would have done "back then" given the historical circumstances though it is 
likely that you would have followed the party line devoid of "later 
experience". I do understand your argument for supporting Stein in the 
elections as an important tactic, strategy, and principle, But the fact that 
Stein is the best current alternative--largely because it has galvanized some 
of the best elements of the radical left including many previous Sanders 
supporters--is indicative of the problem as well as the promise. The best 
possible political party alternatives have yet to emerge because the 
oppressed--i.e., Black, Brown, Asian, Native peoples and Women--have not really 
become engaged. The largely White "left" (but not solely) are the single group 
that has emerged and that indicates the strength and its weakness. Not making 
Syria a "litmus test" may be a viable approach for electoral action, but it 
MUST be for revolutionary activism. 
I do understand the need to do "first things first". Hence, I do not spend much 
time "exposing" Stein, Baraka, or the Greens and, as I said, I will be voting 
for this campaign on the sheer strength of its larger mass appeal than any 
other more radical alternatives. It is important revolutionaries to go with our 
class when a clear independent alternative is presented. But to argue, as you 
seem to have here, that Syria is simply less important in this bourgeois 
election raising the "bogeyman" of a litmus test to scare true revolutionaries 
into supporting a tepid albeit independent alternative, is a weak argument. I 
am 

[Marxism] A Bank Too Big to Jail

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Wondering how people here would appraise this article: "Have you ever wondered 
why the crippling 2008 financial crisis generated almost no criminal 
prosecutions of large banks and their top executives?" (G. Morgensen, 
NYT)http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/a-bank-too-big-to-jail/ar-BBunjW3?li=BBnbfcL

  
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Re: [Marxism] Did a Fear of Slave Revolts Drive American Independence?

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Mark: 'This is not at all a new insight and represents an argument that began 
with
 the Revolution."

I was hoping you might respond here, Mark. However, in the context of today, I 
think a better analysis on this issue seems especially relevant. I would 
encourage you to write a reply, if, of course, you or others haven't already. 
If so, I would appreciate a reference to review it.
  
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Re: [Marxism] "The Vietnam War itself gets less attention here than the Weather Underground"

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Louis: "surely there is a crying need for a Marxist history of the 1960s 
radicalization. "

I would echo this sentiment. The last works I read were when I was in the SWP 
reading discussion bulletins and IP, but now I wonder if there is work going on 
with a bit more fullness? I would be interested to know if there are works that 
would be recommended?   
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Re: [Marxism] One verdict:Those Chicago Protesters really showed Donald Trump, didn’t they?

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Clay: "There seems to me to be a big disconnect where a section of the Left 
livesin an alternate reality in which they don't even have to consider whether 
this on that militant tactic might actually help Donald Trump get elected 
president. . ."

You do know that it does not matter whether Trump or Clinton (or Sanders) get 
elected, right?
  
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Re: [Marxism] against the "no platform for racists/fascists" approach

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Careful, Andrew. You may be being repetitive; oh, right. You can.I was at 
Malik's presentations and the discussion on this issue at the time he was 
writing this excellent work. I agree with it wholeheartedly. It is, however, a 
theoretical perspective that requires application in real life in the context 
that we share. Today. Now. 

Malik's paper is not an argument against the activists who counter-protested 
Trump's racism. Indeed, they did exactly as I/we may have done had we needed to 
do during the time that Malik wrote these (in some instances, we actually did). 
The impetus for the Chicago demonstrations and subsequent ones were, in fact, 
counterdemonstrations. That the Black and Brown youth who went further by 
trying to confront this racism in the face of the racists was largely 
interpreted by the press, along with Trump--as Malik might observe, the most 
likely tack they would take--as anti-democratic is predictable. It illustrates 
what Clay and others observe of the need for strategy and "leadership". So 
what? "We" weren't there, we, for historical, age-related, and other general 
political reasons simply don't have such a role. Does it make these actions 
less important, less meaningful, less effective than, say, "us" opining how it 
was "wrong" to do it? Should these youth--leaders by doing and not by theory
  (as unfortunate as that may be)--have simply waited until they got an 
approval from "elders"?

I am glad that we have the opportunity to opine about strategy and tactics in 
challenging Trump's racist campaign, which, of course, is only emblematic of 
the Twin Parties' campaign against Muslims, immigrants, women, Black and Brown 
people; just like we had the opportunity during Occupy to opine about the 
ineffectiveness of black bloc tactics, just like we had the opportunity to 
argue for mass action during war in Vietnam. The fact is that we wouldn't even 
be having this discussion but for the bravery and fortitude of youth--even the 
muddle-headed Sanderists--to overcome their fears of hate and threats of 
violence. It is only too bad that there aren't enough of "us" who were involved 
to "steer them straight". Oh. Right, we were looking to what Malik Miah said in 
1975.   
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Cathy Campo via Marxism wrote: > I fear this thread is becoming repetitive.
Louis:  Yup.

These two replies are exactly why Clay (and I) often comment about the 
"Whiteness" of these kinds of discussions. How dare someone like Clay press a 
point when he is challenged and how convenient it becomes for White radicals to 
judge such responses as "repetitive" and others assenting so as, essentially, 
to signal "they" have ended the conversation for us. I was about to reply to 
Clay for what i believe were his mistaken views on issues of "localism" and the 
perception that he is being challenged because he has nothing to say if he 
isn't "there". However, the discussion is considered ended because it is 
"repetitive", which to any activist of color engaged in numerous political 
debates has always meant that "our" desire to engage in debate is subject to 
dismissal at the behest of Whites who simply don't to hear what we have to say 
or consider a contrary view: especially from people of color or women. 
I do not even agree with Clay  on the issues in this thread, but not because I 
believe that his method--to disagree by metaphor or short commentary indicating 
a point of view--is "repetitive" or otherwise exhausting the conversation. I 
have more in common with Cathy's and Kevin's (glad to see that the last message 
from Cathy was in her own voice rather than as a "couple"). However, I am 
forced to come to Clay's defense because of the utter dismissive, thoroughly 
privileged, "entitled" attitude that "repetitive" and "yup" so drippingly 
convey.
End Of Line   
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Right we don't want to be tailists, Clay, and that is all that was said.
My original point: Young activists taking on the racism of Trump are unlikely 
to listen to someone telling them they are wrong for engaging people like Trump 
because you don't think they have adequate "leadership". We can argue about 
what Trump was intending as some conspiracy theory, a "setup" that activists 
got fooled into or we can recognize that these actions were a significant event 
that require our support. I prefer not to delve into Trump's mind and 
motivations. It's really irrelevant.
 
> Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 14:34:52 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?
> From: marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
> To: mtom...@hotmail.com
> 
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> *****************
> 
> On 3/14/2016 9:13 AM, Manuel Barrera via Marxism wrote:
> > if y'all have a better way, get out and help them do it! Or just shut up 
> > and be grateful that Chi-Town, Kansas City, and I really hope other cities 
> > still have the courage and fight in them.   
> > 
> Why do I call it tailism? Let me count the ways: 1) If you're not in the 
> streets, you're not in the struggle 2) If you're not in the streets you 
> have no right to speak 3) if you're not in the streets its obviously 
> because you lack courage 4) if you're not in the streets you should just 
> cheer on those who are or shut up.
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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In reply to Clayborne and others who seem to think they "know" what and how 
Black and Brown youth "should" be doing about this racist Trump campaign (from 
my reply to Partido on Facebook):

The Marxmail discussion is an exercise in theoretical posturing: essentially, 
old people telling young people that they should've had more "leadership" and, 
then from there, nothing. The implication is that somehow the young black and 
brown activists along with the well-established coalition-building left in 
Chicago should have not fallen into a trap (right, no real strategy about what 
do next, just don't fall into a trap, as if the trap of supporting Sanders 
weren't already a big one). I doubt Trump is all that Machiavellian or even 
conscious, but assuming he is, what exactly do "we" think Black and Brown youth 
should have done instead than respond with mass action?! Politely seek a 
"dialogue"? What is happening now in response to Trump's racist tirades is 
young people refusing to be silent. Period. Would there have been a 
"leadership" (apparently according to some on Marxmail, that seems to mean 
them) to be more "strategic" about it begs credulity and, moreso guts to have 
engaged "
 silent protest". Trump may not be as serious about his racism, but his 
followers, mostly frustrated White people fearing the end of their privilege in 
the world, seem very serious in promoting racial hatred and xenophobia. Do you 
really believe it best to follow King's passivity as a strategy over Malcolm's 
regarding organized self-defense? At a time when Trump promotes the beating of 
people of color at his rallies? What exactly do you think should be enough to 
begin mounting a defense and POLITICAL ACTION to counter this rather overt 
racist threat? I have called for every living democrat--inside, outside, and 
opposition to the Democratic and Republican parties--to stand up and come to 
the defense of the right to protest Trump's racist, xenophobic calls to begin 
what amounts to Apartheid for Muslims and Brown people as well as the continued 
repression of the Black community. We should support Sanders' rallies from 
being disrupted by the racist Trump followers even as we may oppose S
 anders' candidacy. We should participate in !
 the mass actions organized against Trump's rallies so that our experience can 
be heard and a movement can truly emerge from this otherwise spectator sport 
called the bourgeois elections. 
Maybe this Trump threat will come to nothing. But do we really wish to exhort 
young people for their "exuberance" while just standing on the sidelines 
bemoaning how "wrong" they are?

My time may be past to lead this charge, but I will be damned if I criticize 
these brave fighters for doing what they believe must be done and what we KNOW 
has to be prepared. In other words, if y'all have a better way, get out and 
help them do it! Or just shut up and be grateful that Chi-Town, Kansas City, 
and I really hope other cities still have the courage and fight in them.
 
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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"I think provoking Trumpette violence can be tactically stupid. But I also 
think the UIC violence came mainly from Trump's people." 

Geez, it sounds, Clay, like you (and unfortunately too many others) seem to 
think that Black and Brown youth response to the ongoing racist, xenophobic 
violence and threats of violence by Trump and the racists he has emboldened 
were somehow ill-advised in exerting their RIGHT to stand up against it. This 
response by activists in BLM and, even, from the muddle-headed leftists 
supporting Sanders (at least they got THIS response right) is exactly how to 
turn the miasma of the bourgeois elections into veritable political action that 
can become comprehensible to larger numbers of the masses, especially Black, 
Brown, Muslim, and immigrant communtiies. Can't you even imagine how incensed, 
frustrated, and even cowed many of US have felt hearing day in, day out, the 
racist hysteria being perpetrated under the guise of "electioneering"? Trump 
may not be a fascist (I agree with that assessment), but there are many racists 
and frustrated White workers who may think he is and are emboldened to ex
 press their hatred in vile and violent ways. It is to the credit of BLM and 
Sanders activists and, even Sanders (who has called Trump on his threats to 
send his supporters to Sanders rallies) that they are willing to take this 
fight into the streets. It is about Time! 

The opportunity is right here to call out people like Sanders and Clinton to 
stand up for democratic rights, to create a groundswell of action, rather than 
simple electioneering on the real issues that are behind people like Trump (and 
Cruz, for that matter). I believe there should be united coalition-like action 
to defend Sanders' rallies against the potential for racist violence that Trump 
is trying generate. Such actions can spill onto the streets the issues that 
bourgeois electoralism is designed to obfuscate. There is potential to mobilize 
on the very issues Sanders pretends to "save us" with and that the Democratic 
Party wants to funnel into voting. 

My personal view is that Sanders will likely back down and that Trump may also, 
but it is also possible that a real important battle will be joined here. We 
should be standing with young people in this fight and, if the opportunity 
presents itself, to propose veritable mass action tactics that can bring the 
battles that bourgeois candidates only want to talk about into the streets. 
 
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Re: [Marxism] Mike Alewitz on Bernie Sanders

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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"But that Sanders poses as a socialist and projects a sort of crude and erratic 
 class divide  -- in the context of the US Presidential  Game Show :  that has 
to be very significant. That has to be a plus because, despite what ever his 
preferences, Sanders unleashes and inspires forces  that may later find him,and 
his party allegiance, wanting. What happens 'if'/when he backs Clinton?  Where 
does that momentum and frustration go? It won't default to a bunch of wannabe 
'we-told-you-so' outfits who did not go through the Sanders experience with 
them. It will instead  be demoralised. And the promise fades because the 'real' 
socialists  could not harness it."

I would say, Dave, that your points are really an argument that would give many 
leftists in the U.S. a justification to support Sanders, much like a similar 
argument made it palatable for otherwise skeptical people of color--and some 
leftists--to support Obama in 2008 (and only less so in 2012). I believe that 
what is remarkable  about this "up-ante'd" posing of a "socialist" running for 
a capitalist party is NOT that it "unleashes and inspires forces that may later 
find him . . . wanting" (THAT is the trap), but the reason behind this event; 
namely that the economic crisis created by the capitalists and the political 
bankruptcy of their TWIN parties has resulted in growing disaffection with 
capitalism  and openness (openly so) to ideas that are both truly socialist and 
the phony "socialism" propounded by Sanders and, now, some of those "wannabe" 
outfits trying to ride the coattails of this "Sanders experience". 

It is indeed remarkable that there are more people looking to socialist ideas. 
But that yearning for socialist ideas is an argument actually to BE socialist, 
to Explain socialism for what it truly IS and for veritable socialists engage 
larger numbers of interested youth and the oppressed that "crude and erratic 
class divide"  by showing WHERE that divide actually is, between the interests 
of the working and oppressed masses and that of the liberal wing of the ruling 
classes on the one hand and, as well, against the pessimism and frustration 
emanating from the disaffected privileged and reactionary elements among the 
classes that represent the fascist alternative. 

Now is the time to be clear ("patiently explain") about the lessons and 
devastating results inherent in what has up to now only been an esoteric notion 
(for the masses) of "lesser-evil politics". Now is the time to present truly 
anti-capitalist, "socialist", or independent-of-the-capitalist-parties 
alternative to the Twin Pillars of Continued War, Repression, Environmental 
Devastation, and Economic Disaster that are the Democratic and Republican 
Parties. Supporting a (supposed) radical to "build a people's movement" within 
the capitalist parties is exactly the wrong thing to do and does nothing to 
"unleash and inspire" social forces that have already become inspired and 
already  at least partially unleashed by their/our own reaction to the ongoing 
capitalist drive toward barbarism. It is not Sanders that unleashing or 
inspiring anything, but only reflecting the very real potential for actually 
building a "people's movement" and "political revolution" against the 
capitalist parties an
 d their failed policies. Indeed, the  liberal capitalists may not have seen 
the potential for drawing the masses back into their lesser-evil trap, but it 
is plainly clear that supporting that attraction is likely a great opportunity 
for creating that very "demoralisation" that would come of the Sanders campaign 
and--to be very clear--even his potential victory if it comes to that! 

A Sanders presidency would do the same for all the working masses that the 
Obama victory did for the Black and Brown communities, a descendant spiral into 
continued and acquiescent misery at the hands of our murderous rulers with a 
"socialist" at the helm. Rather than building momentum for change we would see 
more economic devastation, more suppression of democratic rights, and continued 
war and militarization of communities with effect that even "radicals" would be 
giving such outcomes their tacit endorsement at worst or weakened credibility 
in trying to counter it at best. The masses may actually learn from such an 
experience, but they will be doing so with an even more moribund 
"revolutionary" current flailing away in the wake of the demoralising "flood" 
that entrapped the "socialists" to bring Sanders to power. And, such an outcome 
would be the result of a "victory" and not the more likely "defeat" of the 
Sanders campaign to run capitalism for the 

Re: [Marxism] Mike Alewitz on Bernie Sanders

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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" We may not have to deal with the impact the Sanders campaign may have on US 
3rd party politics -- but , let's say, Sanders is useful even a world away."

Heatwaves rising from the desert always seem like an oasis. It's pathetic to 
support Sanders if you're a revolutionary when in the U.S. From "a world away" 
it is like spears urging the buffalo to the cliff.
"But nothing ever stays the same, Nothing's explained, The longer it takes, the 
looser the ties,

'Cause this is it for all we know, So say goodnight to me, And lose no more 
time, no time,
Resisting the flow"

  
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Re: [Marxism] Proposal for an "Other Campaign" for 2016

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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" My suggestion: regardless of the "choice"
> they grimly accept for the ballot box, why don't radical leftists join
> together to run an "Other Campaign" in the US like the Zapatista one in
> Mexico a while back?"

Now THAT'S an idea whose time has come! It would be fun.
  
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Re: [Marxism] Argentine devaluation causes misery

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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" aren't they wrong to fight back?"
! Of course not. Don't know how Louis would respond precisely, but it 
should be likely that. The need for the "left" to build unity across borders 
(and, of course, for the toiling masses) does not obviate the need for the 
masses of any country to fight their national representatives of the 
imperialist bourgeoisie at any level for any reason. Indeed, a united 
revolutionary left, for it to have any chance to develop must be based on mass 
struggles wherever they may be for whatever reasons and in any manner dictated 
by circumstances. I recently read a post from a friend involved in Black Lives 
Matter, outraged at yet one more police murder of a black youth, who observed 
"white people, what are you gonna do when 45 million black people wake up?". 

Capitalism's contradictions continue to concentrate the wealth into fewer hands 
and cause ever greater misery and desperation. Just because "we" haven't 
developed the courage to overcome our myopia doesn't mean the masses can't and 
won't rise up. That we are not ready to help mount a true resistance is in 
itself a travesty. We do what we can precisely because every time the masses 
rise up, every time they cry for relief, they are screaming at us to unite. 

The masses aren't asking us to "lead" them. They are saying we are you and you 
should be with us. That we see ourselves as so separate because of our 
"enlightened" knowledge of what is happening--and by that separation, I mean 
our actions that maintain disunity--remains not just a tragedy but ultimately a 
betrayal. 

The single greatest affliction of the sectarian "non-sectarian" left like 
Antarsya, ISO, SAlt, et al, is their hubris in thinking that because they can 
"recruit" a revolutionary party by sloughing off the "best builders" of mass 
movements remains their calling. That because emerging revolutionary fighters 
can be attracted to a well-spoken platform (as Louis continually observes, such 
a platform is really easy to create) equals the building of a revolutionary 
leadership when all that it means is that they are recruiting great mass 
fighters into isolating themselves from the mass struggle. 

If there is any lesson that was learned by those of us who joined such a 
sectarian grouplet in the past it is that joining up with an anti-democratic 
organization just because we are of like minds is as much of a graveyard as the 
seeming alternative to join up with bourgeois reformism. That there is 
potential for revolutionary organizing as the mass struggle builds does not 
mean we should set up shop and engage in building "market share" for 
revolutionaries. Such a ferment means that we need to seek broader unity and 
commonality of struggle regardless of our current disagreements or agreements. 

Moreso, the older we are, the more we need to let those younger than us lead 
the way and build up revolutionary action in the way that it makes sense for 
those youth to struggle. Our "job" is to support, observe, opine, clarify, and, 
when the time is right, join in: if we are still able at that time.

I believe it was Trotsky who observed that there were probably greater 
thinkers, better fighters, who "should" have led the Russian struggle for 
power. The point is (or was) that it was those who showed up, with all their 
impurities, ignorance, and inadequacies, that made the difference. I would only 
add that winning a struggle for power is only the beginning of the struggle for 
liberation and emancipation from the oppression we all suffer. If "we" older 
veterans are still around when that stage occurs, we will have much (more) to 
contribute.  
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[Marxism] The rise of the worker-owned business

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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I'd be interested in commentary (or recent papers/blogs?) on this recent 
article: 
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/smallbusiness/the-rise-of-the-worker-owned-business/ar-BBnFUu5?li=BBnb7Kv
"Guess what: there is a third way that businesses are owned. You know the first 
two - private ownership and public ownership (via the stock markets). But then 
there is a third way: worker-owned businesses and, said some academics, their 
numbers are rising. “This is a moment for worker-owned businesses,” said Joseph 
Blasi, a professor at the School of Management at Rutgers University and 
co-author of The Citizen’s Share: Reducing Inequality in the 21st Century." 

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Re: [Marxism] Descartes's Swedish connection

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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" Late in his life, Descartes served as a private tutor to Queen Christina of 
Sweden. Christina was, by all accounts, unconventional."
This link is very timely, Louis. I just viewed the film "The Girl King" as part 
of the Minneapolis Film Society Festival this past weekend. I'd be interested 
in your review of the film. 

I found it a good film, dramatically, but as it now seems not entirely accurate 
in its depiction of Descartes' relationship with Christina. Still, I thought 
the issues of feminism and depiction of the Queen's lesbianism unexpected and 
interesting in what appeared to be a fictionalized historical account. I 
learned later from a friend who looked into the actual history of Christina 
that the film's final comments at the end about the Queen's work with poets and 
philosophers at the Vatican was not the entire story with some failed attempts 
at establishing a reign in other cities (Florence, I believe?). In any case, it 
is a history I'd never really encountered before.   
   
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Re: [Marxism] a reply on "mass workers/broad" parties

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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I made the following initial reaction comment on the ISO response section to 
the article. As ISO always seems fairly sectarian in hearing from people 
outside their organization, I thought I'd share here, too:
Chretien and, likely, the ISO leadership is taking great pains to justify their 
existence as a sectarian left formation--albeit guilty about it. Most of 
Chretien's points of disagreement with the Russell/Principé article are 
"educational" in nature, that is, trying to "correct" the authors for not truly 
knowing what he--and presumably, ISO--"know" about revolutionary politics. In 
the main, Russell/Principé take issue with this very sort of thinking, that 
using the increasing ferment in the world revolutionary struggle should cease 
being a justification for all too singular focus on "revolutionary" parties 
and, rather, that actual revolutionaries can have the ability to become much 
focused, "centralized", if you will by seeking a more democratic approach to 
building "mass workers parties" and engaging in united work with the inevitable 
smaller revolutionary "currents" in and outside of the sectarian left alongside 
the pro-capitalist currents where many new activists are often led, at least 
initially, to join. 

"Dan Russell, one of the two co-authors, was a long time Marxmail "

  
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greece and the Future of Syriza: Lessons of a Tragic Defeat

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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a sect like Socialist Action, there is very little likelihood that you will 
ever betray the working class. It is an organizational form that protects you 
from disease--acting like a condom. But at the same time is an effective way  
to prevent bringing new life to fruition.

Unfortunately, Louis, I believe it is much worse than simple inoculation from 
betrayal. It is a form of betrayal once you've been a leader or committed cadre 
of such a sect and continue a line that seeks purity in the face of actual 
struggle by all the impure (i.e., the masses). There may be individuals 
within the sects worthy of engagement, but in the context of the sects it is a 
more than a fool's errand. 

This is why the promise of the sect-based electoral fronts of May through 
this summer (the Left Forums, etc.) not only was doomed to fail, but to 
continue along that path is an impediment. Further unfortunately, I am forced 
to accept your view that we are too far from a mass-based formation of the 
radical elements (radical read in scientific terms and 'left/right terms) to 
think that we can jumpstart a process. We are forced to adopt a more 
naturalistic approach seeking opportunities (like Occupy previously and Black 
Lives Matter currently) where they can take us. Syriza and Podemos remain much 
more promising DESPITE the defeats that have occurred.  
   
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Re: [Marxism] The moderator's note

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Don't unsub me, Louis. However, while I do understand the impulse to end the 
sectarianism of the revolutionary left--this list is one place where it 
exists--one has to ask whether continuing to allow or disallow pretend class 
analyses of people as interventions into a discussion where there are 
significant differences among serious people has a meaningful role. Frankly, I 
did not realize that Creegan had been undertaking this intervention for six 
months because one only has to read his, and others', posts once or twice to 
see whether there are serious and thoughtful posts being written. Michael K.'s 
reply to Creegan was indeed a thoughtful reply even as Creegan's post(s) can be 
seen as formulaic. I'm sorry for Michael to have spent so much energy just so 
Creegan could make himself appear serious by acknowledging Michael's thinking 
and then, yet again, descending into the same sectarian nonsense. 

Lost in all this handwringing about anti-democratic functioning by Louis for 
putting a stop to this descent into sectarianism (or, more aptly, deeper levels 
of it than we sometimes see) are the more serious issues how to characterize 
both the defeat of the Greek workers and oppressed and the leadership that was 
either forced or destined ( owing to non-proletarian thinking) to preside 
over this defeat. Everyone wants to engage in this character assassination or 
character defense because everyone here hasn't EVER had to grapple with what 
do next when you've been elected by the masses to end capitalist oppression. 
Tsipiras has, Varoufakis has, and, to some extent those in Antarsya and the 
other Greek groups have, too. The rest of us are simply talking. Opinionating. 
I wonder whether the descent into (more) sectarianism by the likes of Creegan 
or others is really all that useful? If it is, then perhaps Louis is wrong to 
end the discussion by exclusion. I suppose we'll find out so
 on regarding the wisdom of stopping sectarian intervention--as opposed to 
actual serious discussion--if there is a mass exodus by people on the list over 
democracy.

What might happen to Louis and his approaches to leadership should he join a 
workers party or be part of a mass revolutionary movement will really be a 
function, like the rest of us, should such an event actually transpire and what 
we do then. Arguing such a point is more than meaningless and, to me, seems 
more designed to justify sectarian infighting more than serious discussion. 

Of more important concern to me is the fact, and the context behind, the 
beating and jailing of the FI comrades by Syriza Riot Police that Ioannis 
recently posted. I may have missed any posts related to that after his (or 
her?) report and petition, so, if someone can point me to that discussion, I'd 
appreciate it.

  
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: “The face of racism today is not a slaveowner”: Eric Foner on the past and present of white supremacy - Salon.com

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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You know, the face of racism has indeed changed. And not; it is, you know, 
contradictory. In a time of new rounds of mysogynistic assault on the rights, 
lives, and even thoughts of women, Marx Mail can only seem to muster White men 
to discuss the woman question (see Ferguson's recent post). The number of 
posts I've seen on this list from women are so far between that I breath a sigh 
of relief whenever I do see them, realizing that there are probably many women 
all too quietly lurking and taking in the grand wisdom of radical Marxists. 
To be sure, it is entirely likely that many women comrades are indeed speaking 
out and writing in other venues. It is an abomination that none of that is 
realized on a list arguably one of the best lists on Marxism around; That 
distinction is NOT meant to be laudatory but characteristic of the grand 
problem.


This grand problem, however, is just as apparent when it comes to writers, 
Marxists, revolutionaries of color--the reason for my post. While on the face 
of it, there seems to be more representation by some regulars here, if we 
count individuals from other countries, like Patrick Bond (to be sure, a 
significant voice), or, even, folks like Amith or Vijay (with whom I often 
disagree and have significant trouble with some of their perspectives). 

I have often wondered why there is such a truncated version of Marxist voices 
of color here. For much of the time I have left it to believe that, well, it 
reflects the paucity of Marxist thought among people of color in general 
perhaps either unsupportive of Marxist thinking or still too nascent in such 
thinking. I do not believe that anymore. I think that this list contributes to 
the problem, not because I believe it is useless or irrelevant, but because 
like in revolutionary politics, democratic traditions need to be engaged 
actively rather than the passive notion that well, everyone has the right to 
contribute, so, it's too bad that they (that's a We from my perspective) just 
don't speak up. After all, isn't a list like this based on an inclusive 
approach being mindful not to censor or exclude simply because one disagrees? 


My experiences in Occupy and previous as well as subsequent movements have led 
me to think differently; that the same White privilege that exists in Western 
society and thought is reflected within what I now believe, and call, is the 
almost revolutionary left [which I distinguish from the pretend Left of the 
purported anti-imperialist left(ists) who have found a way to oppose emerging 
revolutionary movements of color except those sanctioned by some revolutionary 
credential, which seems to amount to either being supported by the Cuban 
government or is failing in its fights against imperialism of the U.S., 
Russian, or Chinese variety because apparently any veritable struggle could not 
possibly be winning in this epoch Unless it is Marxist in character, whatever 
that may mean]. This almost revolutionary left is marked not by its disdain for 
voices of color but by its propensity for stifling those voices by its sheer 
volume; what some people of color during Occupy would describe W
 hite people sucking all the oxygen out of the room. 


A case in point is this post where Louis (no small oxygen sucker himself--not 
to say that what he and others don't have merit, but rather because he and they 
do) posts an interview by a White journalist with a White author, with seeming 
authoritative credentials, about how the face of racism is no longer about 
blatant White supremacy, as if this bit of enlightenment were somehow, if not 
new, at least now credentialed because a White scholar, an expert on the 
subject (he, you know, wrote several books about racism and history, et al.). I 
am reminded of the recent skit on Jon Stewart (6/22) where Jessica Williams, a 
Black woman is paired with a white man, Jordan (Funt?) explaining the racist 
meaning of the Charleston shooting. In the skit, Jessica's analysis is only 
legitimized for Jordan when Jon Stewart steps in to say the same thing. Jordan 
continually ignores Jessica listening only to Stewart's more minimalistic 
explanations. The audience--and Stewart's writers apparently--fo
 und the skit really funny. All I could do was think back to the multitude of 
times I have spoken at meetings, or written posts (even here), where it 
appeared that what I had to say was either ignored or legitimized only when 
some White person--usually male--said the same thing or delegitmized when my 
perspective was considered too radical, impractical, or insufficiently 
laudatory of the current tradition. 


This sort of skit plays out 

[Marxism] [UCE] RE: Fwd: The Topless Dancer, Slavery and the Origins of Capitalism » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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justified critique of the Puritans and Philistines who, as you correctly point 
out, didn't get what Pekar was trying to do. He was painting a portrait of you, 
possible warts and all, not upholding you as a model to be emulated. That's 
what artists do, as opposed to socialist realists.

It's a good thing, Andrew, because Louis' account is not the only valid one. 
It's too bad Debbie, Tom, or other friends of Debbie and Tom would be able to 
add their thinking regarding Louis' story. Although, I have no privy 
information beyond my interactions with all those actors, which were as a young 
wide-eyed budding radical who loved the early learning experiences and 
considered the sectarianism, at that time, just part of the job (with Louis, 
as a raw new person to that branch, one of the Texas recruits , I liked what 
he did in organizing the forums and will simply not engage in any gossip about 
him otherwise). I grant Louis' accounts since he was on the inside of that 
story, but I do know enough from my interactions with Debbie, Tom, and others 
involved to say that they are his account only and likely include a bit of 
hubris. The story itself has many more versions to it. 

Louis' discussion on the politics, and economics are, as I've learned to 
appreciate for so long, spot on. 



  
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: EUROPP – A Grexit would not be a catastrophe for all Greeks

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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There is no need for a bail out. But the wealthy Greeks do not want to pay any 
taxes. Most of them never did.  Recently they were forced for the first time to 
pay a tax on their  property (wealth) which was met with fierce resistance. 
Most of them  voted for a Syriza government. Despite their left-wing rhetoric, 
the new government wants to abolish  (it now talks about ‘reducing’) the 
property tax and to substitute it  with an increase in the Value Added Tax 
which will harm poorer  households

Well, is it accurate and will the VAT do what is claimed? Seems important to 
know.
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: EUROPP – A Grexit would not be a catastrophe for all Greeks

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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As for the property tax, I understand his obsession with that is  misplaced; 
the problem with the one that Syriza inherited from the  memorandum regimes was 
that it was a monstrously regressive flat tax  that didn't exclude the humble 
working class family home, and Syriza's program is abolishing it for this, but 
making it more progressive at  higher levels, and that this is wildly popular.

Thanks, I knew there was more to it. Kind of puts in perspective the idea that 
only leftists can have good ideas.   
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Is cosmology having a creative crisis ? – Ross Andersen – Aeon

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Jeff: Science is different from politics, because ALL true scientists want to 
see the correct theory win (and the incorrect ones disproved) regardless of 
which one they personally preferred. Theories are tested by 1) Disproving them 
through experiment; 2) Disproving them on the basis of inconsistency with more 
basic accepted science (with the possibiilty that the current accepted wisdom 
will be found to have been in error in which case the rejected hypothesis can 
be revived); and 3) By Occam's Razor when two different explanations are 
equally consistent according to 1 and 2. That is the real basis of the 
scientific method, which doesn't appear very well appreciated or explained in 
popular articles such as this.

True enough, Jeff, but much of cosmology (in particular, but by no means alone 
in this problem) even when done and explained scientifically is often fraught 
with too many guesses (or, hypotheses, if you wish) using mathematics that is 
itself conducted with a plethora of constants and approximations that amount 
mathematically to conjectures and theories based upon theories. How does one 
reconcile the theoretical and Marxist notion that the truth is concrete when 
experience is inconceivable at the physics of the very large and of the very 
small? 

To be sure, there is much that can, and has, been explained through such 
hypotheses/conjectures/guesses. However, while I can agree that a paper from a 
non-scientist (or non-cosmologist at the least) may gloss over the limits of 
science as a crisis of creativity, the questions remain. Given the cultural 
and class biases engendered within and among scientists, it seems unlikely that 
science in the era of battle between neo-liberal and neo-conservative 
ideologies is going to flourish enough to answer these grander questions.  This 
problem is especially so when those more true scientists are either going to 
be employed to answer such questions for the sake of national military 
superiority or directed toward pressing issues such as defense of the planet. 

Like all work of human endeavor, science has a material basis for its existence 
and forward motion. This present article may seem more like a metaphorical 
throwing up our arms but it also seems unfortunate that more veritable 
scientists are tempted respond to it with a talk to the hand because the ears 
aren't listening. Such a mentality leads many to think that science is akin to 
religion and scientists its high priests.  
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Re: [Marxism] Callinicos: Syriza and Tsipras exposed

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Louis: Politics is a complicated business. If you are interested in morality, 
I  recommend the Sermon on the Mount and Alex Callinicos's prose.

Generally (as in so what?) I would agree, Louis, that what a leftist 
government has to do in context of capitalist assault to maintain even this 
tiny amount of struggle against imperialist austerity is complicated. It is 
not a moral question, but it is a political one. Why do you insist on defending 
Tsipiras, even if he may not defend himself if your implication by resorting to 
Lenin is that somehow the man holds a different view of his decisions made of 
necessity? Of course it is complicated if you are responsible for power. You, 
however, are not and, unfortunately, the likely most revolutionary forces 
inside Syriza may also not be. It is a complicated issue to maintain support 
for a leftist government (not there are no quotes around the term, because I 
share the belief in that designation) while at the same time seeking to press 
revolutionary aims and perspectives and thereby seeking to reach out to 
revolutionary elements in Greece whose only voice is being echoed by ideolo
 gues like Callinicos? 

The decision to engage with Egyptian military dictators may be one of 
complicated politics, but it is defenitely  not revolutionary politics. I 
urge you to keep your hand on the stick without bending it to accommodate the 
politics of expediency, complicated or not.   

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Re: [Marxism] Callinicos: Syriza and Tsipras exposed

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Louis replies with:  http://louisproyect.org/2015/01/30/against-manichaeism/
Yeah, read that, agreed with it then and now. It isn't remotely germane to what 
I asked. What, you think I'm a global chess game wingnut because I asked a 
simple question?  Are you even paying attention? Who's playing chess now?





  
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Re: [Marxism] Callinicos: Syriza and Tsipras exposed

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Louis: Nobody would ever describe Syriza as revolutionary socialist, least of 
all Tsipras I'm sure. However, in terms of weighing the party's record, I'd 
assign a lot more weight to its overturning of the neoliberal civil service 
reform and putting people back to work.

So, because Tsipiras and Syriza are working mightily against austerity, it is 
ok for them to issue a joint statement with Egyptian dictator and join the war 
on terrorism in the Mediterranean? 

I am certainly not opposing Syriza or Tsipiras because of exigencies, but I 
wonder just how that portion of the Greek working class that includes those 
supportive of the previous Arab Spring as well as those immigrant workers in 
Greece under threat from the likes of Golden Dawn and even the less rabid right 
would see this juxtaposition of exigencies? 
Ranting against Callinicos, in this context, is both rather an easy deflection 
but so not the point. 

Perhaps you are arguing that the Greek masses both need and want to focus on 
austerity and their support of Syriza is reflective of that. Is it also true 
that they, and the most conscious revolutionary layers of those masses are 
willing to accede to connecting with dictators and the right wing of Other 
countries because, well, doing so supports their fight against austerity?  How 
exactly?   
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[Marxism] Open Letter to Louis and our List re: recent posts on Boris Nemtsov's murder

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Some guy named Alex quips (in a rather petit bourgeois way to boot):   
Personally, the guy sounded like a traitor, and I'm not sad to see him go.

Louis, this kind of false discussion regarding the murder of a political 
opponent--traitor or no (exactly who has the right, credentials, or franchise 
on the truth even to make such a rationalizing statement?)--is non-sensical, 
anti-Marxist, and foolhardy at best. It is also very dangerous to condone on a 
list supporting Marxism and revolutionary socialism. 
Combined with the tolerance we seem to be having for this Thug, Stephan 
Kutusov, not only condoning this murder but seeking to engage revolutionaries 
into a discussion about the validity of political assassinations and we are 
in very dangerous waters; both in terms of security and politics. 

I understand that you are likely engaged in conducting your due diligence 
regarding these posts, Louis. But I urge you to complete it and soon. You will 
lose people, but more importantly, you and the rest of us will lose credibility 
for our principles. 

I'll stay as long as I feel I can but I won't forever in this context.

Manuel 
  
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Re: [Marxism] Interview with Russian Deputy Defence Minister

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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 In my opinion, Venezuela, Nicaragua,  Cuba have every right to seek support 
where they can.
ken h

You know, it says absolutely nothing to say Cuba, or the U.S. for that matter, 
has a right to seek support where they can. The real issue is where such 
support leads, how it is to be bought, who will pay the price, and what can be 
gained.

This is the problem with ideology, that one seeks to analyze outcomes without 
them actually being first observed. Is imperialism blocking Cuba from seeking 
support with anybody? Yes, in the form of U.S. imperialism, No in the form of 
Putin's Russian imperialism. Faith, in this case, faith that Cuba will do the 
right thing with this support, is a poor substitute material action and 
material action is concrete. For example, Russian imperialists are supporting 
Al Assad in Syria as are China's. We already know Cuba's atrocious stands on 
the geopolitical chessboard.  One has to temper their defense of the Cuban 
Revolution not because of principle but because that principle has been frayed 
albeit comprehensible given the world situation. That fraying of principle 
remains and cannot be altered by wishful thinking. 

How is such observation difficult for revolutionaries?
  
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Re: [Marxism] Overview of the war in Ukraine, Feb 6, 2015

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Louis:  The entire international left except me, Andy Pollack, Zbigniew 
Kowalewski and Gabriel Levy support the separatists. Maybe I forgot one or two 
others.Clay:  You can add me to that list. 

The trouble here is not being in a minority, but the arrogance to think that it 
is only a few others in opposition to the rightist-Putin movement in the 
Ukraine or  Syria or Libya. Thinking in terms that only those who write 
something have a clear understanding of this issue is actually one of the 
greater problems of the left; the idea that only White radicals who always 
seem to take up all the oxygen are the who really understand and everybody 
else either doesn't get it or isn't as committed. It is a part of the problem 
with the Left discourse. 

I don't write extensively on these issues not because I do not share opinions 
or am somehow unclear on issues but simply because it is disappointing to read 
how purported revolutionaries cannot see a revolutionary process, for example 
in Syria, or a reactionary one such as in the Ukraine by Putin-supported 
rightists all because of the excuse of geo-politics. Alike the almost 
insulting temptation to argue with David Walters on whether nuclear power is 
insanity to support, there is no real necessity to argue with ossified 
almost-Marxists who represent little except themselves. 

I prefer this list because of the rich analyses that do come forward among the 
chafe. 
  
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[Marxism] Regarding the Left

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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I just replied to Louis' post on the Overview of Ukraine that I started a while 
ago and it lay in my drafts until the recent inane interchange with Jacobs and 
Louis on the Donetsk. It didn't seem to contribute much, but then neither it 
seems do others more analytical. 

I see the problems indicated by these unremarkable interchanges as an important 
one given the recent increased interest in left unity stirred by the victory of 
Syriza and the potential of Spain's Podemos as well the rather truncated 
promise of Sawant's in Seattle. 

It is not the politics of the issues surrounding the Ukraine, Syriza in Greece, 
Syria democratic revolution or of Cuba's need to make alliances. Those are 
really straightforward if one is schooled in revolutionary politics. It is the 
nature, quantity, and narrowness of the discourse that we Marxists seem always 
to engage. Aside from some in other countries, there are insignificantly few 
people of color or women that engage these discussions. Perhaps because the 
White among us like to avoid the problem by dismissing  such issues as mere 
'identity politics' or perhaps it is really because people of color are just 
not viewed as part of the left?  .  .  . Even being forced to make such a 
statement underlies how insanely dismal the situation is.

The Marxist left had better start to find a way to unify not among the 
sectarian Whiteists but engaging the veritabl left that is out there emerging 
on the streets of Ferguson, the social media online, and in the communities as 
well as blogsphere of feminist, nationalist,  and participants in emerging 
workers movements in the logistics sectors. In truth, these are the 
Marxists--of reality--that ought to be engaged these kinds of discourse.
   
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[Marxism] Meanwhile in Latin America: Venezuela: Coup In Real Time

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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From Telesur, Eva Golinger analyzes U.S. maneuvers in promoting a Chile 1973 
coup in Venezuela:
There is a coup underway in Venezuela. The pieces are all falling into place 
like a bad CIA movie. At every turn a new traitor is revealed, a betrayal is 
born, full of promises to reveal the smoking gun that will justify the 
unjustifiable. Infiltrations are rampant, rumors spread like wildfire, and the 
panic mentality threatens to overcome logic. Headlines scream danger, crisis 
and imminent demise, while the usual suspects declare covert war on a people 
whose only crime is being gatekeeper to the largest pot of black gold in the 
world.
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/Venezuela-Coup-in-Real-Time-20150201-0015.html
  
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Re: [Marxism] White Oregon

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Wasn't Portland a sundown town? Ad nauseum

Ok, this thread has become officially intolerable. Where do a bunch of White 
marxists get off coming down on a whole state? Oregon has a racist history? 
Right, because no other state nor this entire nation has no such history. What, 
did you think that California was blessed with enlightened White people because 
the Europeans who populated it spoke Spanish? Oh, and how about New 
England--a real bastion of Caucasian culture, where, you know, Plymouth Rock 
landed on all those Indians and African Slaves. And, how about multicultural 
New York City born in the equivalent of a @$24  sale from the native 
populations and now (!) is so cosmopolitan that it results in the murders 
Black people by the police for various and sundry crimes of, wait for it, 
being Black. 

And now we have well-heeled left academics who make a great living speaking 
and writing about oppression recounting their, surprise!, horror stories about 
how not simply White people, but a whole state, is racist.My, such erudition 
and enlightenment is . . .underwhelming.

I lived in Oregon, Portland and the Willamette Valley, received my first 
college degree there and if I could find the right opportunity, I would move 
there in a second never mind a New York minute.  I have also experienced 
people who were not only immensely kind for no other reason than that I was 
different. I experienced support for some very unpopular points of view and 
been questioned with respect even in the face of my admittedly tremendous ire. 
There aren't enough Black (or Brown) people in Oregon? Really? There aren't 
enough in the entire nation for my liking. Better yet, perhaps some of you 
White people ought return to where y'all came from?!  Of course, I don't 
really mean that in any way, but you will understand that how many of us is 
not really the problem as I sure y'all know. 


Just like every other place I've lived including my own home town in the Rio 
Grande Valley of Texas where the vast majority are Chicano, not only have I 
enountered racism but learned of our tremendously  racist history. Big deal. 
I've also recognized, you know, as a Marxist, that White (never mind, 
Latino/Chicano) working people have a historic role that is more concrete than 
any ephemeral (historically speaking) limitd racist thinking that they may now 
exhibit. I wonder if any of you bourgeois liberal-thinking pretend 
revoutionaries even understand the quote of Marx's about The philosophers have 
only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.? 

One of the biggest disappointments in this list for me is the tremendously few 
people of color and women who participate. I submit that one reason for that is 
the kind bourgeois liberal thinking that creeps in when White Marxists get all 
indignant about the racism out in the sticks. 

Yes, this was a harangue. Roll your eyes and keep on with the bourgeois liberal 
crap recounting stories of racism that your White sensisibilities were subected 
to from other White people. Or better yet, learn a little bit of tolerance if 
not a longer view of history.


  
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Gunning for Vandana Shiva » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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Louis wrote:  Just a reminder. I am assuming that Manuel meant this as a reply 
to the list. Generally when you 'repl', the addresses will include the original 
poster (like me) and the list. But sometimes the list address is dropped. So 
always double-check before you hit 'send'. 

No, I actually did mean to send just to you, Louis (note, I am sending to you 
and to the list here with adherence to the list's posting requirements to the 
best of my understanding); didn't see the need to post to everyone. But thanks 
for the information regardless. As is usually the case, many different writers 
or activists like Shiva are not anointed with correct Marxism and still write 
important and informative things that anyone interested in revolutionary change 
ought to consider. Thanks for the great contribution. Michael Specter  is often 
viewed as annoying but correct. I've always been wary of his often caustic 
approach that also seemed a bit self-serving. I appreciated the time you took 
to analyze his seemingly credible evidence for what it actually is.
 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:39 -0400
 From: l...@panix.com
 To: mtom...@hotmail.com; marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
 Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Gunning for Vandana Shiva » CounterPunch: Tells 
 the Facts, Names the Names
 
 On 8/22/14 10:41 AM, Manuel Barrera wrote:
  Good article, Louis, but what exactly are Vandaya Shiva's credentials?
  I'm very glad to see this takedown of Specter, on journalistic and
  scientific merits. Couldn't happen to a more petulant brat.
  thanks
 
 Just a reminder. I am assuming that Manuel meant this as a reply to the 
 list. Generally when you reply, the addresses will include the 
 original poster (like me) and the list. But sometimes the list address 
 is dropped. So always double-check before you hit send. (The list 
 address is marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu.
 
 Vandana Shiva is a somewhat controversial figure. You can find all sorts 
 of attacks on her as being a Luddite, etc. on Wikipedia 
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandana_Shiva). Back in 1996 I wrote her 
 off as a postmodernist icon because people like Alan Sokal and Meera 
 Nanda (an Indian scientist who backed the Narmada Dam) considered her 
 stress on local knowledge to be superstitious. After a couple of years 
 I figured out that Sokal and Nanda's grounding in Marxism was rather 
 weak even if Shiva had her own problems.
 
 I think her main value is as an activist and a critic of industrial 
 farming, not as a scientist per se. What she shares with Marxism is an 
 understanding that industrial farming is not the answer to the food 
 crisis. Where she differs is on the solution. Basically she has no 
 conception that as long as there is capitalism, industrial farming wil 
 prevail. She is a latter-day Gandhi when latter-day Bhagat Singh's and 
 M.N. Roy's are needed.
  

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[Marxism] The need for a mass united front to oppose U.S. aid to Israel

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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I have been reading with increased concern that the united actions across the 
world are not reflected in the U.S. What I have seen so far is some large 
actions by disparate groups; often the conservative Left who see a dichotomy 
between the fight to end the Israeli murder and the freedom struggles in the 
Middle East like Syria and the Kurds, not to mention the ongoing struggle in 
Egypt and what is happening in Iraq. It seems that there are groups of Syrians 
and other Arab peoples who are organizing solidarity actions against the Gaza 
occupation in connection with their own struggles and the largely White Left 
who distance themselves from Syria and other similar movements. 


I am wondering if this state of affairs is counterproductive. Most of the 
actions I have seen here in Minneapolis/St. Paul are organized by the White 
Left with a smattering of Palestinians who often play the role of tokens while 
other speakers are mostly White (WAMM, Maoist-inspired, UNAC and related 
socialist groups) who find some way to denounce American imperialism and give 
backhanded or even sometimes overt support the al Assad or Russia as some 
counter threat to imperialism. It is abysmal and it has made it difficult to 
attend solidarity actions when I know those actions seem primarily to show 
these Lefts' commitment to the struggle but offering no real opportunity for 
a mass united front. 


There is no need to explain this problem or to try to convince me about 
united front action--I know it pretty well. I am wondering if there is 
something more concrete that can be done by Marxists of all stripes to build a 
stronger solidarity movement that includes the forces of the Arab diaspora and 
the Black and Brown communities? If this question sounds naive to you, don't be 
fooled. You are only foolling yourselves. This is not a question requiring 
schooling but a question aimed at getting us off the dime.  


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Re: [Marxism] The need for a mass united front to oppose U.S. aid to Israel

[Manuel Barrera via Marxism]

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==



thanks, Andrew, yes, I'd be interested in both the MENA and who may be 
connected to this kind of effort in MN. Walters, well, his comment speaks for 
itself. Thousands aren't what we need and it is unlikely at this moment that 
working people in unions (note that this statement does not negate the 
positive, but still isolated union support that exists and is building) are 
going to stand up to the task that is needed right now. Working people will, 
and are, moving on this issue; just not as the currently pathetic organized 
labor movement that does not seem even to know what it must do to defend itself 
(e.g, fighting for $15 or opposing austerity such as the fight for water in 
Detroit and to clean water in Ohio or access to water in California). Gaza 
needs a real united front in the U.S. and I know it is a hard task. That 
(pretend) Lefts seem to be excited that their demonstrations have gotten bigger 
when it only shows the potential not the actual state of affairs only shows how 
myopic
  they are.
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 10:49:16 -0400
Subject: Re: [Marxism] The need for a mass united front to oppose U.S. aid to 
Israel
From: acpolla...@gmail.com
To: mtom...@hotmail.com; marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu

Manuel,
The problems you so accurately describe are why we formed the MENA Solidarity 
Network-US, and why we are working with like-minded folks around the world. In 
both cases we're talking majority Arab. These are folks who insist on the unity 
of these struggles.

In NY the demographics of all Gaza rallies are much more heavily Arab, 
including many Arab youth who often initiated these rallies, and who are not 
yet absorbed into the Stalinist/ex-Trotskyist milieu.
As for Minneapolis/St. Paul: we've had great talks with pacifists there who 
have made the connection from the start, we can talk offline about that if you 
want.

Andy


On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Manuel Barrera via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

==

Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.

==





I have been reading with increased concern that the united actions across the 
world are not reflected in the U.S. What I have seen so far is some large 
actions by disparate groups; often the conservative Left who see a dichotomy 
between the fight to end the Israeli murder and the freedom struggles in the 
Middle East like Syria and the Kurds, not to mention the ongoing struggle in 
Egypt and what is happening in Iraq. It seems that there are groups of Syrians 
and other Arab peoples who are organizing solidarity actions against the Gaza 
occupation in connection with their own struggles and the largely White Left 
who distance themselves from Syria and other similar movements.






I am wondering if this state of affairs is counterproductive. Most of the 
actions I have seen here in Minneapolis/St. Paul are organized by the White 
Left with a smattering of Palestinians who often play the role of tokens while 
other speakers are mostly White (WAMM, Maoist-inspired, UNAC and related 
socialist groups) who find some way to denounce American imperialism and give 
backhanded or even sometimes overt support the al Assad or Russia as some 
counter threat to imperialism. It is abysmal and it has made it difficult to 
attend solidarity actions when I know those actions seem primarily to show 
these Lefts' commitment to the struggle but offering no real opportunity for 
a mass united front.






There is no need to explain this problem or to try to convince me about 
united front action--I know it pretty well. I am wondering if there is 
something more concrete that can be done by Marxists of all stripes to build a 
stronger solidarity movement that includes the forces of the Arab diaspora and 
the Black and Brown communities? If this question sounds naive to you, don't be 
fooled. You are only foolling yourselves. This is not a question requiring 
schooling but a question aimed at getting us off the dime.




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