Re: [MBZ] OT gold (and everything else) is crashing

2015-08-03 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
A Washington Porst reporter binge-read ALL of Trump's books over a single
weekend!  His observtions are worth noting, since he is the likely R
standard bearer.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2015/07/30/i-just-binge-read-eight-books-by-donald-trump-heres-what-i-learned/

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 7:50 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Please, in the interest of keeping me off some obscure terrorist list,
 include that I advocate the use of due process and Jury trial... with a
 conviction of Treason...
 Before than hanging... well.. at lease a short trial...

 On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  Max wrote:
 
I think there are forces among the dems who understand how inevitable
  it is that an R will be the next president, so they are glad to
 sacrifice
  Hillary! and be rid of her, and focus on the 2020 election.
 
 
  Nope!!
  Bill is her husband.
  Watch.
  mao
 
 
  Unless billary and pillory are both in prison...
 
  I like Grant's ready for pillory with a piece of rope...  We used to
  hang arnolds up.  Certainly arnold did fewer things, and it could be
 argued
  his actions had fewer consequences.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] ?

2015-08-03 Thread Fred Moir via Mercedes
Alles.I'm in for my morning tea at 10:40 hrs. So far the car has new center 
bearing and mount, new flex joints and a re-positioned rear muffler hanger.I 
have been burning daylight at a good rate, Sir!

Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.

 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 09:14:33 -0500
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] ?
 From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
 CC: 126die...@gmail.com
 
 Sir,
 
 All vehicles functioning, or in for known repairs.  No Problems or 
 questions to report, Sir!
 
 No off topic ramblings thus far today, Sir!
  
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Re: [MBZ] ?

2015-08-03 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes

Sir,

All vehicles functioning, or in for known repairs.  No Problems or 
questions to report, Sir!


No off topic ramblings thus far today, Sir!

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Re: [MBZ] Power Booster saga

2015-08-03 Thread Bob via Mercedes
A few weeks ago I mentioned I broke down on the way to my shorehouse. Since 
 I  replaced the power booster on my 78 240D before I went ahead   ordered 
A PB from Rockauto.con,got it in a day  a half .I contortingly  installed 
it [ Dan- easy for me being 5'-6]  Then I realized the check  valve on the 
vacuum pump was kaput.  Couldn't remove it due to the galling  between the 
steel valve  the aluminum body. So I put in a new one. I even  had to remove 
a broken bolt from the previous owner. Bled the brakes with my  homemade 
pressure bleeder [Boy that's fun !!]
 Then when I would drive it a few miles,after a few lights  
my front right  caliper would lock up  I had to abandon the car Half an 
hour later I come  back I would drive back to my house before it would get 
tight again. I  installed both front NEW calipers[Bendix] just 2 years ago. I 
replaced all four  brake hoses about 4 years ago.
  My question  is does this sound like  brake hoses collapsing on the 
inside ?? I don't remember my source for these  hoses [Chinese?] My car 
brakes would be fine after it cools  down  after a half hour or more. I bled 
the brakes again still same thing.
 I did notice that my rear  brake hoses did have some black specs 
when I bled them so I'm wondering about  the hoses.
   HELP ! I'm now 92 miles away from my  car since I had to come home 
due to renters.  I'm 4 weeks away from My week  at the house when I could 
work on it again in my driveway. Any suggestions ?? If  I need hoses I'll order 
from MB. Caliper from Rockauto. THanx guys. 
 
Bob 
1983 240D
 
PS runs like a new car except for the eventual lockup
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
If my tank gets rusty/scuzzy, i swap it.  You don't get much propane 
on the swap, but it is cheaper than buying a new tank/valve. 
Thereafter, it can be refilled for a full charge.   All my old tanks 
with the old valves, I managed to swap eventually without having to 
buy the new safety valve.  I much prefer the old unsafe valve 
with LH threads.  The swap shops don't pay much attention to the 
valve type now.


I've only used propane to fry turkeys that past few years.  Gas grill 
stays in the shed.  Charcoal/wood tastes better.



I took mine in the other day and the kid said it was leaking as he 
tried to fill it. Says my tank can't be refilled anymore. He did 
seem to get it about half full and they refunded my money. Half tank 
of propane for free, score!
When it runs out I'll do a tank swap. Its 9 years old and they're 
only supposedta be good for 10 without testing right?
I've never heard of someplace replacing the valve for you, I'd just 
swap the tank.

-Curt
  From: WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com
 Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 2:58 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire
  
BTW, I'll find another place to fill my propane tanks.


Wilton

- Original Message -
From: WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 2:35 PM
Subject: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire



 Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after installing
 full, 20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.

 'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store.  'Thought
 I heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the clerk lady was
 filling it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at the valve shaft?
 She replied, Nah, I probably didn't have the fill/charging connection
 quite tight enough.

 Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting hot
 enough.  I read owner's manual, and realized that she was turning it on in
 such a manner (too quickly) as to cause a safety feature to keep it from
 providing high heat.  During my tests, I temporarily installed the full
 tank and found it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve when I opened the
 valve on top of the tank.  I changed the bottles back to the old tank.
 Coupla days later I took the newly-filled tank back to the hardware
 store and tried to tell 'em that, indeed, it does leak and asked if they
 could change the valve.  'Lady who had filled it nearly went ballistic
 when I tried to ask her if she remembered my concern about it while she
 was filling it.  Another clerk (male) took the bottle to the charging
 station, plugged it in and declared, Not leaking; ya may not have had the
 connection tight enough.  I replied, Well, I had it as tight as I could
 get it with a wrench (big pliers).

 'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the grille
 until I installed it yesterday.

 When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the grille, I
 heard a slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the valve,  got on
 the connection nut again with the big pliers while trying to wiggle the
 hose.  When I opened the valve on top of the tank again, I heard no hiss
 and proceeded with the grille starting procedure and leaving the doors to
 the tank compartment open.  When I pushed the ignition button, not only
 did it ignite the grille burners, It ignited a significant flame around
 the valve on top of the tank in such a manner that I could not reach the
 valve handle/knob to turn it off!

 'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly identified
 myself, location and situation to the dispatcher, Propane leak with

  active flame that keeps me from reaching the valve, 'needing help NOW!

 Dispatcher started asking his questions, and I went through all of it
 again and finished with, While we're talking, I hope you have a truck
 underway, I need it now!

 Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began to
 hear the sirens headed my way, and noticed that the flame pattern around
 the valve and top of the tank had changed slightly so that I may be able
 to use the pliers to turn the valve bit by bit to turn the gas off.
 'Grabbed the pliers and began to get a grip on the hard-to-hold
 triangular-shaped knob while trying to dodge the flames.  After several
 tries, I began to find a way to grip the knob and turn it off a bit each
 time.  I finally got it off as the fire truck pulled up in front of the
 house.

 'Was literally bar-b-q ing my hand - 'got coupla small first degree burn
 (very minor) places on inner, top of thumb.  Singed hairs on back of
 fingers, hand and wrist.

 Wilton

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Here's your man, Grant

2015-08-03 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
The lib/prog position on global warming has a distinct double 
speak tone, where science means no disagreement, no discussion 
allowed.

\

1984 / Animal farm

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
Yes a smart if painful move Wilton. First fire call I ever went on was
propane filling tank on fire. Not pretty.
Dwight
On Aug 3, 2015 6:01 PM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Na, 'told 'em I don't give up easily; 'needed to turn that valve off
 before it got hot enough to blow off.  After it had cooled a bit, I asked
 'em to remove/disconnect the tank for me.  Didn't realize I was burned a
 bit (very minor) until they had left and I started washing my hands to find
 the the 2 sore spots and singed hair.  I must have touched the hot
 underside of the grill to get the burns.  My hand was in and out of the
 flames several times.

 I think something is wrong with the spring-loaded valve that is opened by
 installing the regulator and hose.  'Don't know yet.  I've never had that
 problem with another tank.

 Wilton

 - Original Message - From: Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Cc: Meade Dillon dillonm...@gmail.com
 Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 3:26 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire


 Wow, very glad you weren't injured any worse!  Did the firemen fuss at you
 for handling the situation yourself and getting burned in the process?

 I'll be curious to hear what caused the leak, and I totally agree with
 finding a different place to get your propane tank filled.  Soapy water
 would have revealed that leak when your ears didn't.

 I have three tanks: one that I own, that came with the grill, one that I
 bought from the grocery store dispenser cage, so I just swap that out
 with a filled tank and pay the $20 or whatever, and a third tank same as
 #2
 but neighbor gave it to me when they moved and didn't want to take the
 time
 to return it for a refund.  I try to keep at least two full tanks on hand.
 Note to self: hurican season is hear, check your propane tanks...

 -
 Max
 Charleston SC

 On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Waytago!

 We are glad you are not badly burned.

 This was a considerably bigger propane fire, but it is why I am not
 thrilled about the Cathey test refrigerant in a car.


 https://archive.org/stream/midamericapipeli00netc/midamericapipeli00netc_djvu.txt
 I saw the destruction firsthand.



 Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after installing

 full, 20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.

 'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store. 'Thought
 I heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the clerk lady was
 filling it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at the valve shaft?
 She replied, Nah, I probably didn't have the fill/charging connection
 quite tight enough.

 Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting hot
 enough.  I read owner's manual, and realized that she was turning it on
 in
 such a manner (too quickly) as to cause a safety feature to keep it from
 providing high heat.  During my tests, I temporarily installed the full
 tank and found it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve when I opened the
 valve on top of the tank.  I changed the bottles back to the old tank.
 Coupla days later I took the newly-filled tank back to the hardware
 store
 and tried to tell 'em that, indeed, it does leak and asked if they could
 change the valve.  'Lady who had filled it nearly went ballistic when
 I
 tried to ask her if she remembered my concern about it while she was
 filling it.  Another clerk (male) took the bottle to the charging
 station,
 plugged it in and declared, Not leaking; ya may not have had the
 connection tight enough.  I replied, Well, I had it as tight as I
 could
 get it with a wrench (big pliers).

 'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the grille
 until I installed it yesterday.

 When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the grille, I
 heard a slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the valve,  got
 on
 the connection nut again with the big pliers while trying to wiggle the
 hose.  When I opened the valve on top of the tank again, I heard no hiss
 and proceeded with the grille starting procedure and leaving the doors
 to
 the tank compartment open.  When I pushed the ignition button, not only
 did
 it ignite the grille burners, It ignited a significant flame around the
 valve on top of the tank in such a manner that I could not reach the
 valve
 handle/knob to turn it off!
 'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly identified
 myself, location and situation to the dispatcher, Propane leak with
 active
 flame that keeps me from reaching the valve, 'needing help NOW!
 Dispatcher started asking his questions, and I went through all of it
 again
 and finished with, While we're talking, I hope you have a truck
 underway,
 I need it now!

 Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began to
 hear the sirens headed my way, and noticed 

Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
You can get bottles filled but around here most people just swap theirs for a 
full one for about $18 or so. I guess this is a reason why charcoal is better 
but we use propane because it's easier.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 3, 2015, at 1:35 PM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after installing 
 full, 20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.
 
 'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store.  'Thought I 
 heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the clerk lady was 
 filling it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at the valve shaft?  She 
 replied, Nah, I probably didn't have the fill/charging connection quite 
 tight enough.
 
 Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting hot enough. 
  I read owner's manual, and realized that she was turning it on in such a 
 manner (too quickly) as to cause a safety feature to keep it from providing 
 high heat.  During my tests, I temporarily installed the full tank and found 
 it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve when I opened the valve on top of the 
 tank.  I changed the bottles back to the old tank.  Coupla days later I 
 took the newly-filled tank back to the hardware store and tried to tell 'em 
 that, indeed, it does leak and asked if they could change the valve.  'Lady 
 who had filled it nearly went ballistic when I tried to ask her if she 
 remembered my concern about it while she was filling it.  Another clerk 
 (male) took the bottle to the charging station, plugged it in and declared, 
 Not leaking; ya may not have had the connection tight enough.  I replied, 
 Well, I had it as tight as I could get it with a wrench (big pliers).
 
 'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the grille until I 
 installed it yesterday.
 
 When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the grille, I heard 
 a slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the valve,  got on the 
 connection nut again with the big pliers while trying to wiggle the hose.  
 When I opened the valve on top of the tank again, I heard no hiss and 
 proceeded with the grille starting procedure and leaving the doors to the 
 tank compartment open.  When I pushed the ignition button, not only did it 
 ignite the grille burners, It ignited a significant flame around the valve on 
 top of the tank in such a manner that I could not reach the valve handle/knob 
 to turn it off!  
 
 'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly identified 
 myself, location and situation to the dispatcher, Propane leak with active 
 flame that keeps me from reaching the valve, 'needing help NOW!  Dispatcher 
 started asking his questions, and I went through all of it again and finished 
 with, While we're talking, I hope you have a truck underway, I need it now!
 
 Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began to hear 
 the sirens headed my way, and noticed that the flame pattern around the valve 
 and top of the tank had changed slightly so that I may be able to use the 
 pliers to turn the valve bit by bit to turn the gas off.  'Grabbed the pliers 
 and began to get a grip on the hard-to-hold triangular-shaped knob while 
 trying to dodge the flames.  After several tries, I began to find a way to 
 grip the knob and turn it off a bit each time.  I finally got it off as the 
 fire truck pulled up in front of the house.
 
 'Was literally bar-b-q ing my hand - 'got coupla small first degree burn 
 (very minor) places on inner, top of thumb.  Singed hairs on back of fingers, 
 hand and wrist.
 
 Wilton 
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread WILTON via Mercedes
Na, 'told 'em I don't give up easily; 'needed to turn that valve off before 
it got hot enough to blow off.  After it had cooled a bit, I asked 'em to 
remove/disconnect the tank for me.  Didn't realize I was burned a bit (very 
minor) until they had left and I started washing my hands to find the the 2 
sore spots and singed hair.  I must have touched the hot underside of the 
grill to get the burns.  My hand was in and out of the flames several times.


I think something is wrong with the spring-loaded valve that is opened by 
installing the regulator and hose.  'Don't know yet.  I've never had that 
problem with another tank.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Meade Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Meade Dillon dillonm...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire



Wow, very glad you weren't injured any worse!  Did the firemen fuss at you
for handling the situation yourself and getting burned in the process?

I'll be curious to hear what caused the leak, and I totally agree with
finding a different place to get your propane tank filled.  Soapy water
would have revealed that leak when your ears didn't.

I have three tanks: one that I own, that came with the grill, one that I
bought from the grocery store dispenser cage, so I just swap that out
with a filled tank and pay the $20 or whatever, and a third tank same as 
#2
but neighbor gave it to me when they moved and didn't want to take the 
time

to return it for a refund.  I try to keep at least two full tanks on hand.
Note to self: hurican season is hear, check your propane tanks...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


Waytago!

We are glad you are not badly burned.

This was a considerably bigger propane fire, but it is why I am not
thrilled about the Cathey test refrigerant in a car.

https://archive.org/stream/midamericapipeli00netc/midamericapipeli00netc_djvu.txt
I saw the destruction firsthand.



Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after installing

full, 20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.

'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store. 'Thought
I heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the clerk lady was
filling it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at the valve shaft?
She replied, Nah, I probably didn't have the fill/charging connection
quite tight enough.

Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting hot
enough.  I read owner's manual, and realized that she was turning it on 
in

such a manner (too quickly) as to cause a safety feature to keep it from
providing high heat.  During my tests, I temporarily installed the full
tank and found it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve when I opened the
valve on top of the tank.  I changed the bottles back to the old tank.
Coupla days later I took the newly-filled tank back to the hardware 
store

and tried to tell 'em that, indeed, it does leak and asked if they could
change the valve.  'Lady who had filled it nearly went ballistic when 
I

tried to ask her if she remembered my concern about it while she was
filling it.  Another clerk (male) took the bottle to the charging 
station,

plugged it in and declared, Not leaking; ya may not have had the
connection tight enough.  I replied, Well, I had it as tight as I 
could

get it with a wrench (big pliers).

'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the grille
until I installed it yesterday.

When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the grille, I
heard a slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the valve,  got 
on

the connection nut again with the big pliers while trying to wiggle the
hose.  When I opened the valve on top of the tank again, I heard no hiss
and proceeded with the grille starting procedure and leaving the doors 
to
the tank compartment open.  When I pushed the ignition button, not only 
did

it ignite the grille burners, It ignited a significant flame around the
valve on top of the tank in such a manner that I could not reach the 
valve

handle/knob to turn it off!
'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly identified
myself, location and situation to the dispatcher, Propane leak with 
active

flame that keeps me from reaching the valve, 'needing help NOW!
Dispatcher started asking his questions, and I went through all of it 
again
and finished with, While we're talking, I hope you have a truck 
underway,

I need it now!

Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began to
hear the sirens headed my way, and noticed that the flame pattern around
the valve and top of the tank had changed slightly so that I may be able 
to
use the pliers to turn the valve bit by bit to turn the gas off. 
'Grabbed

the pliers and began to get a grip on the hard-to-hold 

[MBZ] propane

2015-08-03 Thread Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes
wilton

they should NEVER have filled a tank they thought was leaking

tag the tank as leaking valve and swap it at the walmart for $18

they don't care and don't fill them, they just ship them back somewhere

if you tag it you are doing your job

i swapped out all my old found tanks that don't have the modern pressure relief 
valve (round valve handles instead of triangle) at various walmarts

what does it cost to have your filled?

i run my stove here at the beach on a grill sized tank (sitting next to an 
empty 250 gal tank that i should probably sell


thanks,

xx rick
Rick Hawkins

www.javaphoto.com
www.javacycles.com
LETTERPRESSES FOR SALE
www.ricktheprinter.com
www.letterpressmachinery.com

payment by all major credit cards or by paypal

Java Photo
Java Bajaj Cycles
215 Bryan Street
Athens, Georgia 30601

706 354-0988 3-6 pm or later (eastern time)
706 354-8877 fax
optional numbers that 
tend to go to voicemail
912 376-5721 magic jack
706 363-0022 g-number for text/message
SKYPE: macjava
iCHAT/AIM: macj...@aol.com







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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
When i get a tank with wonky valve I swap it. Otherwise  i get them filled
for 15.00 at the local body shop that restored my CD.
On Aug 3, 2015 9:11 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 You can get bottles filled but around here most people just swap theirs
 for a full one for about $18 or so. I guess this is a reason why charcoal
 is better but we use propane because it's easier.

 Sent from my iPhone

  On Aug 3, 2015, at 1:35 PM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
  Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after installing
 full, 20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.
 
  'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store.
 'Thought I heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the clerk
 lady was filling it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at the valve
 shaft?  She replied, Nah, I probably didn't have the fill/charging
 connection quite tight enough.
 
  Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting hot
 enough.  I read owner's manual, and realized that she was turning it on in
 such a manner (too quickly) as to cause a safety feature to keep it from
 providing high heat.  During my tests, I temporarily installed the full
 tank and found it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve when I opened the
 valve on top of the tank.  I changed the bottles back to the old tank.
 Coupla days later I took the newly-filled tank back to the hardware store
 and tried to tell 'em that, indeed, it does leak and asked if they could
 change the valve.  'Lady who had filled it nearly went ballistic when I
 tried to ask her if she remembered my concern about it while she was
 filling it.  Another clerk (male) took the bottle to the charging station,
 plugged it in and declared, Not leaking; ya may not have had the
 connection tight enough.  I replied, Well, I had it as tight as I could
 get it with a wrench (big pliers).
 
  'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the grille
 until I installed it yesterday.
 
  When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the grille, I
 heard a slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the valve,  got on
 the connection nut again with the big pliers while trying to wiggle the
 hose.  When I opened the valve on top of the tank again, I heard no hiss
 and proceeded with the grille starting procedure and leaving the doors to
 the tank compartment open.  When I pushed the ignition button, not only did
 it ignite the grille burners, It ignited a significant flame around the
 valve on top of the tank in such a manner that I could not reach the valve
 handle/knob to turn it off!
 
  'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly identified
 myself, location and situation to the dispatcher, Propane leak with active
 flame that keeps me from reaching the valve, 'needing help NOW!
 Dispatcher started asking his questions, and I went through all of it again
 and finished with, While we're talking, I hope you have a truck underway,
 I need it now!
 
  Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began to
 hear the sirens headed my way, and noticed that the flame pattern around
 the valve and top of the tank had changed slightly so that I may be able to
 use the pliers to turn the valve bit by bit to turn the gas off.  'Grabbed
 the pliers and began to get a grip on the hard-to-hold triangular-shaped
 knob while trying to dodge the flames.  After several tries, I began to
 find a way to grip the knob and turn it off a bit each time.  I finally got
 it off as the fire truck pulled up in front of the house.
 
  'Was literally bar-b-q ing my hand - 'got coupla small first degree burn
 (very minor) places on inner, top of thumb.  Singed hairs on back of
 fingers, hand and wrist.
 
  Wilton
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread fmiser via Mercedes
 Curly wrote:
 
 This was a considerably bigger propane fire, but it is why
 I am not thrilled about the Cathey test refrigerant in a
 car.

From my research, even a non-flammable refrigerant can have a
large flame at a leak due to the oil.  But I have never
tested it myself - or compared the infernos.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

My Weber is a Spirit, too.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; fmiser fmi...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire



Home Depot propane tank swaps are $18.00 around here.

Speaking of which, I grilled two types of fish on my Weber Spirit propane
grille tonite:  bluefish draped with bacon, and a thick salmon steak/
butter.  Both fresh fish came from the Great Wall Chinese market.  Cooked
each one in foil, and they were both moist and delish.  Sure beats heating
up the house.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:48 PM, fmiser via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com

wrote:


 Curly wrote:

 This was a considerably bigger propane fire, but it is why
 I am not thrilled about the Cathey test refrigerant in a
 car.

From my research, even a non-flammable refrigerant can have a
large flame at a leak due to the oil.  But I have never
tested it myself - or compared the infernos.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Home Depot propane tank swaps are $18.00 around here.

Speaking of which, I grilled two types of fish on my Weber Spirit propane
grille tonite:  bluefish draped with bacon, and a thick salmon steak/
butter.  Both fresh fish came from the Great Wall Chinese market.  Cooked
each one in foil, and they were both moist and delish.  Sure beats heating
up the house.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:48 PM, fmiser via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

  Curly wrote:
 
  This was a considerably bigger propane fire, but it is why
  I am not thrilled about the Cathey test refrigerant in a
  car.

 From my research, even a non-flammable refrigerant can have a
 large flame at a leak due to the oil.  But I have never
 tested it myself - or compared the infernos.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
I took mine in the other day and the kid said it was leaking as he tried to 
fill it. Says my tank can't be refilled anymore. He did seem to get it about 
half full and they refunded my money. Half tank of propane for free, score!
When it runs out I'll do a tank swap. Its 9 years old and they're only 
supposedta be good for 10 without testing right?
I've never heard of someplace replacing the valve for you, I'd just swap the 
tank.
-Curt
  From: WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com 
 Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 2:58 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire
   
BTW, I'll find another place to fill my propane tanks.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 2:35 PM
Subject: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire


 Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after installing 
 full, 20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.

 'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store.  'Thought 
 I heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the clerk lady was 
 filling it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at the valve shaft? 
 She replied, Nah, I probably didn't have the fill/charging connection 
 quite tight enough.

 Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting hot 
 enough.  I read owner's manual, and realized that she was turning it on in 
 such a manner (too quickly) as to cause a safety feature to keep it from 
 providing high heat.  During my tests, I temporarily installed the full 
 tank and found it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve when I opened the 
 valve on top of the tank.  I changed the bottles back to the old tank. 
 Coupla days later I took the newly-filled tank back to the hardware 
 store and tried to tell 'em that, indeed, it does leak and asked if they 
 could change the valve.  'Lady who had filled it nearly went ballistic 
 when I tried to ask her if she remembered my concern about it while she 
 was filling it.  Another clerk (male) took the bottle to the charging 
 station, plugged it in and declared, Not leaking; ya may not have had the 
 connection tight enough.  I replied, Well, I had it as tight as I could 
 get it with a wrench (big pliers).

 'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the grille 
 until I installed it yesterday.

 When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the grille, I 
 heard a slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the valve,  got on 
 the connection nut again with the big pliers while trying to wiggle the 
 hose.  When I opened the valve on top of the tank again, I heard no hiss 
 and proceeded with the grille starting procedure and leaving the doors to 
 the tank compartment open.  When I pushed the ignition button, not only 
 did it ignite the grille burners, It ignited a significant flame around 
 the valve on top of the tank in such a manner that I could not reach the 
 valve handle/knob to turn it off!

 'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly identified 
 myself, location and situation to the dispatcher, Propane leak with 
 active flame that keeps me from reaching the valve, 'needing help NOW! 
 Dispatcher started asking his questions, and I went through all of it 
 again and finished with, While we're talking, I hope you have a truck 
 underway, I need it now!

 Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began to 
 hear the sirens headed my way, and noticed that the flame pattern around 
 the valve and top of the tank had changed slightly so that I may be able 
 to use the pliers to turn the valve bit by bit to turn the gas off. 
 'Grabbed the pliers and began to get a grip on the hard-to-hold 
 triangular-shaped knob while trying to dodge the flames.  After several 
 tries, I began to find a way to grip the knob and turn it off a bit each 
 time.  I finally got it off as the fire truck pulled up in front of the 
 house.

 'Was literally bar-b-q ing my hand - 'got coupla small first degree burn 
 (very minor) places on inner, top of thumb.  Singed hairs on back of 
 fingers, hand and wrist.

 Wilton

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Here's your man, Grant

2015-08-03 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes

CAMPAIGN 2016:Ted Cruz professes 'full-out denial' of climate changePublished:
Monday, August 3, 2015

Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz said yesterday he does not
believe global warming is occurring.

The Texas senator said during a forum hosted by Freedom Partners, part of
the Koch brothers political network, that the data and facts don't
support that global warming is occurring, a statement that the moderator
of the forum characterized as a full-out denial.

Cruz has previously likened people who believe in climate change to
flat-Earthers and says the concept is a Trojan horse used by liberals to
impose massive government controls on the economy (*Greenwire*
http://www.eenews.net/greenwire/stories/1060015910/, March 27).

The senator also came out in opposition to the Clean Power Plan set to be
unveiled by the Obama administration today.

Cruz's stance sets him apart from other Republican presidential candidates;
none of the 16 others has come out prominently against the science of
climate change (Ben Jacobs, London*Guardian*
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/03/ted-cruz-expresses-full-out-denial-of-global-warming-during-forum,
Aug. 2). *-- BTP*
_



BZZ  WRONG!

There is no science of climate change.

There is only a global warming/coming ice age/climate 
change/goobermnt theft by gunpoint/theft by albore scam.


The scam has been exposed repeatedly.  Grow up!  Get over it!

Be proud that one candidate has the spine to stand up and say the 
king has no clothes.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Here's your man, Grant

2015-08-03 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
When Ted invites you to the inaugural parties be sure to think of me...

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:56 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Hahahhaha... Andrew... Thank you for being dependable.

 Be sure and call me this winter, when it sets new record cold, for the 4th
 year in a row... I'll try to feel your pain

 On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  CAMPAIGN 2016:Ted Cruz professes 'full-out denial' of climate
  changePublished:
  Monday, August 3, 2015
 
  Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz said yesterday he does not
  believe global warming is occurring.
 
  The Texas senator said during a forum hosted by Freedom Partners, part of
  the Koch brothers political network, that the data and facts don't
  support that global warming is occurring, a statement that the moderator
  of the forum characterized as a full-out denial.
 
  Cruz has previously likened people who believe in climate change to
  flat-Earthers and says the concept is a Trojan horse used by liberals
 to
  impose massive government controls on the economy (*Greenwire*
  http://www.eenews.net/greenwire/stories/1060015910/, March 27).
 
  The senator also came out in opposition to the Clean Power Plan set to be
  unveiled by the Obama administration today.
 
  Cruz's stance sets him apart from other Republican presidential
 candidates;
  none of the 16 others has come out prominently against the science of
  climate change (Ben Jacobs, London*Guardian*
  
 
 http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/03/ted-cruz-expresses-full-out-denial-of-global-warming-during-forum
  ,
  Aug. 2). *-- BTP*
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Here's your man, Grant

2015-08-03 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
The lib/prog position on global warming has a distinct double speak tone, 
where science means no disagreement, no discussion allowed.  It's also 
noteworthy (but not surprising) that the scientists seem to only offer 
solutions which increase the size of government and increase the cost of my 
electrical power...

Thank God, diesel fuel prices are still dropping thanks to good old fashioned 
American know-how and capitalism (fracking).
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On August 3, 2015 5:12:28 PM EDT, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


BZZ  WRONG!

There is no science of climate change.

There is only a global warming/coming ice age/climate 
change/goobermnt theft by gunpoint/theft by albore scam.

The scam has been exposed repeatedly.  Grow up!  Get over it!

Be proud that one candidate has the spine to stand up and say the 
king has no clothes.



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[MBZ] Drink more/drive morel

2015-08-03 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Beer byproducts could power cars in New ZealandPublished: Monday, August 3,
2015

A New Zealand-based company has developed a biofuel from ethanol made from
leftover beer yeast and gasoline, calling the mixture brewtoleum.

Drivers can now fill up their cars with the mixture at 60 service stations
across the North Island, according to a *New Zealand Herald* article
http://nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3objectid=11476245 last
month.

The leftover beer yeast used in the biofuel would otherwise be used as
stock feed or discarded. The first batch, of 300,000 liters, could last
around six weeks from early July. Another biofuel, made from Brazilian
sugar cane and New Zealand whey, a dairy byproduct, is already
commercialized in the country.

The new alternative fuels could help reduce carbon emissions. Using 30
liters of biofuel a week could cut 250 kilograms of carbon dioxide
emissions, according to New Zealand's automobile association.

We're helping Kiwis save the world by doing what they enjoy best --
drinking beer, said Sean O'Donnell, a spokesman for the company behind the
biofuel, DB Breweries (Charlie Sorrel,*Fast Company*
http://www.fastcoexist.com/3048924/now-new-zealanders-can-run-their-cars-on-beer,
July 29). *-- CVK*
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Re: [MBZ] New Addition to the Driveway

2015-08-03 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Many years from now a used Mercedes with documented Dan Penoff provinence
will be worth BIG $$s.

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 It does.

 The interior is black.

 You’re talking about a lot of speakers, as this has a factory Bose
 system.  All of the Becker 1492s I have are rebuilts and have the aux input
 option, too.

 Drop me a PM with an offer.

 Dan



  On Aug 2, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  If it still has the original radios, speakers and amp I would be
 interested in those maybe. What color is the interior? I would probably
 take the sun visors also.
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 


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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-03 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Very funny.  The car type should ALWAYS be in the subject line.

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Which car?


 Crosley Sport Utility!

 Pay attention!


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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

BTW, I'll find another place to fill my propane tanks.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 2:35 PM
Subject: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire


Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after installing 
full, 20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.


'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store.  'Thought 
I heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the clerk lady was 
filling it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at the valve shaft? 
She replied, Nah, I probably didn't have the fill/charging connection 
quite tight enough.


Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting hot 
enough.  I read owner's manual, and realized that she was turning it on in 
such a manner (too quickly) as to cause a safety feature to keep it from 
providing high heat.  During my tests, I temporarily installed the full 
tank and found it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve when I opened the 
valve on top of the tank.  I changed the bottles back to the old tank. 
Coupla days later I took the newly-filled tank back to the hardware 
store and tried to tell 'em that, indeed, it does leak and asked if they 
could change the valve.  'Lady who had filled it nearly went ballistic 
when I tried to ask her if she remembered my concern about it while she 
was filling it.  Another clerk (male) took the bottle to the charging 
station, plugged it in and declared, Not leaking; ya may not have had the 
connection tight enough.  I replied, Well, I had it as tight as I could 
get it with a wrench (big pliers).


'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the grille 
until I installed it yesterday.


When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the grille, I 
heard a slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the valve,  got on 
the connection nut again with the big pliers while trying to wiggle the 
hose.  When I opened the valve on top of the tank again, I heard no hiss 
and proceeded with the grille starting procedure and leaving the doors to 
the tank compartment open.  When I pushed the ignition button, not only 
did it ignite the grille burners, It ignited a significant flame around 
the valve on top of the tank in such a manner that I could not reach the 
valve handle/knob to turn it off!


'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly identified 
myself, location and situation to the dispatcher, Propane leak with 
active flame that keeps me from reaching the valve, 'needing help NOW! 
Dispatcher started asking his questions, and I went through all of it 
again and finished with, While we're talking, I hope you have a truck 
underway, I need it now!


Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began to 
hear the sirens headed my way, and noticed that the flame pattern around 
the valve and top of the tank had changed slightly so that I may be able 
to use the pliers to turn the valve bit by bit to turn the gas off. 
'Grabbed the pliers and began to get a grip on the hard-to-hold 
triangular-shaped knob while trying to dodge the flames.  After several 
tries, I began to find a way to grip the knob and turn it off a bit each 
time.  I finally got it off as the fire truck pulled up in front of the 
house.


'Was literally bar-b-q ing my hand - 'got coupla small first degree burn 
(very minor) places on inner, top of thumb.  Singed hairs on back of 
fingers, hand and wrist.


Wilton

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread WILTON via Mercedes
Yep, that's what I was worried about - to turn the valve off before the tank 
got too hot.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: OK Don okd...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire



ATTABOY!  Flammable gases are not to be taken lightly. I think you dodged
one when the tank didn't explode.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:35 PM, WILTON via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com

wrote:


Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after installing
full, 20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.

'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store.  'Thought
I heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the clerk lady was
filling it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at the valve shaft?
She replied, Nah, I probably didn't have the fill/charging connection
quite tight enough.

Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting hot
enough.  I read owner's manual, and realized that she was turning it on 
in

such a manner (too quickly) as to cause a safety feature to keep it from
providing high heat.  During my tests, I temporarily installed the full
tank and found it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve when I opened the
valve on top of the tank.  I changed the bottles back to the old tank.
Coupla days later I took the newly-filled tank back to the hardware 
store

and tried to tell 'em that, indeed, it does leak and asked if they could
change the valve.  'Lady who had filled it nearly went ballistic when I
tried to ask her if she remembered my concern about it while she was
filling it.  Another clerk (male) took the bottle to the charging 
station,

plugged it in and declared, Not leaking; ya may not have had the
connection tight enough.  I replied, Well, I had it as tight as I could
get it with a wrench (big pliers).

'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the grille
until I installed it yesterday.

When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the grille, I
heard a slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the valve,  got on
the connection nut again with the big pliers while trying to wiggle the
hose.  When I opened the valve on top of the tank again, I heard no hiss
and proceeded with the grille starting procedure and leaving the doors to
the tank compartment open.  When I pushed the ignition button, not only 
did

it ignite the grille burners, It ignited a significant flame around the
valve on top of the tank in such a manner that I could not reach the 
valve

handle/knob to turn it off!

'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly identified
myself, location and situation to the dispatcher, Propane leak with 
active

flame that keeps me from reaching the valve, 'needing help NOW!
Dispatcher started asking his questions, and I went through all of it 
again
and finished with, While we're talking, I hope you have a truck 
underway,

I need it now!

Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began to
hear the sirens headed my way, and noticed that the flame pattern around
the valve and top of the tank had changed slightly so that I may be able 
to
use the pliers to turn the valve bit by bit to turn the gas off. 
'Grabbed

the pliers and began to get a grip on the hard-to-hold triangular-shaped
knob while trying to dodge the flames.  After several tries, I began to
find a way to grip the knob and turn it off a bit each time.  I finally 
got

it off as the fire truck pulled up in front of the house.

'Was literally bar-b-q ing my hand - 'got coupla small first degree burn
(very minor) places on inner, top of thumb.  Singed hairs on back of
fingers, hand and wrist.

Wilton

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--
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few 
who

learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves.

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Power Booster saga

2015-08-03 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
Could be hoses, could be the caliper.

If you were able to troubleshoot, when the caliper is locked up then you
open the bleeder valve on the caliper, and if fluid comes out and the
caliper un-locks, that's a  pretty good indication that the hose is the
problem.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Bob via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 A few weeks ago I mentioned I broke down on the way to my shorehouse. Since
  I  replaced the power booster on my 78 240D before I went ahead   ordered
 A PB from Rockauto.con,got it in a day  a half .I contortingly  installed
 it [ Dan- easy for me being 5'-6]  Then I realized the check  valve on the
 vacuum pump was kaput.  Couldn't remove it due to the galling  between the
 steel valve  the aluminum body. So I put in a new one. I even  had to
 remove
 a broken bolt from the previous owner. Bled the brakes with my  homemade
 pressure bleeder [Boy that's fun !!]
  Then when I would drive it a few miles,after a few lights
 my front right  caliper would lock up  I had to abandon the car Half an
 hour later I come  back I would drive back to my house before it would get
 tight again. I  installed both front NEW calipers[Bendix] just 2 years
 ago. I
 replaced all four  brake hoses about 4 years ago.
   My question  is does this sound like  brake hoses collapsing on the
 inside ?? I don't remember my source for these  hoses [Chinese?] My car
 brakes would be fine after it cools  down  after a half hour or more. I
 bled
 the brakes again still same thing.
  I did notice that my rear  brake hoses did have some black specs
 when I bled them so I'm wondering about  the hoses.
HELP ! I'm now 92 miles away from my  car since I had to come home
 due to renters.  I'm 4 weeks away from My week  at the house when I could
 work on it again in my driveway. Any suggestions ?? If  I need hoses I'll
 order
 from MB. Caliper from Rockauto. THanx guys.

 Bob
 1983 240D

 PS runs like a new car except for the eventual lockup


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Re: [MBZ] Power Booster saga

2015-08-03 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
Sounds like hoses, especially if after sitting 1/2 hour the brakes 
are free again.  I put new hoses on one 240D, and after a year, the 
LF was swollen shut.  ATE hoses...  I have not attacked the problem 
yet.  Am just letting the car sit for now.


As Mr DIllon said, open the bleeder and push back the brake pads from 
the rotor.  If it binds up and is relieved by opening the bleeder, 
you have bad hoses.





A few weeks ago I mentioned I broke down on the way to my shorehouse. Since
 I  replaced the power booster on my 78 240D before I went ahead   ordered
A PB from Rockauto.con,got it in a day  a half .I contortingly  installed
it [ Dan- easy for me being 5'-6]  Then I realized the check  valve on the
vacuum pump was kaput.  Couldn't remove it due to the galling  between the
steel valve  the aluminum body. So I put in a new one. I even  had to remove
a broken bolt from the previous owner. Bled the brakes with my  homemade
pressure bleeder [Boy that's fun !!]
 Then when I would drive it a few miles,after a few lights 
my front right  caliper would lock up  I had to abandon the car Half an

hour later I come  back I would drive back to my house before it would get
tight again. I  installed both front NEW calipers[Bendix] just 2 years ago. I
replaced all four  brake hoses about 4 years ago.
  My question  is does this sound like  brake hoses collapsing on the
inside ?? I don't remember my source for these  hoses [Chinese?] My car
brakes would be fine after it cools  down  after a half hour or more. I bled
the brakes again still same thing.
 I did notice that my rear  brake hoses did have some black specs
when I bled them so I'm wondering about  the hoses.
   HELP ! I'm now 92 miles away from my  car since I had to come home
due to renters.  I'm 4 weeks away from My week  at the house when I could
work on it again in my driveway. Any suggestions ?? If  I need hoses 
I'll order

from MB. Caliper from Rockauto. THanx guys.

Bob
1983 240D

PS runs like a new car except for the eventual lockup



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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes

Waytago!

We are glad you are not badly burned.

This was a considerably bigger propane fire, but it is why I am not 
thrilled about the Cathey test refrigerant in a car.
https://archive.org/stream/midamericapipeli00netc/midamericapipeli00netc_djvu.txt 
I saw the destruction firsthand.



Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after 
installing full, 20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.


'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store. 
'Thought I heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the 
clerk lady was filling it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at 
the valve shaft?  She replied, Nah, I probably didn't have the 
fill/charging connection quite tight enough.


Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting 
hot enough.  I read owner's manual, and realized that she was 
turning it on in such a manner (too quickly) as to cause a safety 
feature to keep it from providing high heat.  During my tests, I 
temporarily installed the full tank and found it leaking at the 
fill/dispensing valve when I opened the valve on top of the tank.  I 
changed the bottles back to the old tank.  Coupla days later I 
took the newly-filled tank back to the hardware store and tried to 
tell 'em that, indeed, it does leak and asked if they could change 
the valve.  'Lady who had filled it nearly went ballistic when I 
tried to ask her if she remembered my concern about it while she was 
filling it.  Another clerk (male) took the bottle to the charging 
station, plugged it in and declared, Not leaking; ya may not have 
had the connection tight enough.  I replied, Well, I had it as 
tight as I could get it with a wrench (big pliers).


'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the 
grille until I installed it yesterday.


When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the 
grille, I heard a slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the 
valve,  got on the connection nut again with the big pliers while 
trying to wiggle the hose.  When I opened the valve on top of the 
tank again, I heard no hiss and proceeded with the grille starting 
procedure and leaving the doors to the tank compartment open.  When 
I pushed the ignition button, not only did it ignite the grille 
burners, It ignited a significant flame around the valve on top of 
the tank in such a manner that I could not reach the valve 
handle/knob to turn it off! 

'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly 
identified myself, location and situation to the dispatcher, 
Propane leak with active flame that keeps me from reaching the 
valve, 'needing help NOW!  Dispatcher started asking his questions, 
and I went through all of it again and finished with, While we're 
talking, I hope you have a truck underway, I need it now!


Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began 
to hear the sirens headed my way, and noticed that the flame pattern 
around the valve and top of the tank had changed slightly so that I 
may be able to use the pliers to turn the valve bit by bit to turn 
the gas off.  'Grabbed the pliers and began to get a grip on the 
hard-to-hold triangular-shaped knob while trying to dodge the 
flames.  After several tries, I began to find a way to grip the knob 
and turn it off a bit each time.  I finally got it off as the fire 
truck pulled up in front of the house.


'Was literally bar-b-q ing my hand - 'got coupla small first degree 
burn (very minor) places on inner, top of thumb.  Singed hairs on 
back of fingers, hand and wrist.


Wilton
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
Wow, very glad you weren't injured any worse!  Did the firemen fuss at you
for handling the situation yourself and getting burned in the process?

I'll be curious to hear what caused the leak, and I totally agree with
finding a different place to get your propane tank filled.  Soapy water
would have revealed that leak when your ears didn't.

I have three tanks: one that I own, that came with the grill, one that I
bought from the grocery store dispenser cage, so I just swap that out
with a filled tank and pay the $20 or whatever, and a third tank same as #2
but neighbor gave it to me when they moved and didn't want to take the time
to return it for a refund.  I try to keep at least two full tanks on hand.
Note to self: hurican season is hear, check your propane tanks...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Waytago!

 We are glad you are not badly burned.

 This was a considerably bigger propane fire, but it is why I am not
 thrilled about the Cathey test refrigerant in a car.

 https://archive.org/stream/midamericapipeli00netc/midamericapipeli00netc_djvu.txt
 I saw the destruction firsthand.



 Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after installing
 full, 20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.

 'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store. 'Thought
 I heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the clerk lady was
 filling it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at the valve shaft?
 She replied, Nah, I probably didn't have the fill/charging connection
 quite tight enough.

 Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting hot
 enough.  I read owner's manual, and realized that she was turning it on in
 such a manner (too quickly) as to cause a safety feature to keep it from
 providing high heat.  During my tests, I temporarily installed the full
 tank and found it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve when I opened the
 valve on top of the tank.  I changed the bottles back to the old tank.
 Coupla days later I took the newly-filled tank back to the hardware store
 and tried to tell 'em that, indeed, it does leak and asked if they could
 change the valve.  'Lady who had filled it nearly went ballistic when I
 tried to ask her if she remembered my concern about it while she was
 filling it.  Another clerk (male) took the bottle to the charging station,
 plugged it in and declared, Not leaking; ya may not have had the
 connection tight enough.  I replied, Well, I had it as tight as I could
 get it with a wrench (big pliers).

 'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the grille
 until I installed it yesterday.

 When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the grille, I
 heard a slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the valve,  got on
 the connection nut again with the big pliers while trying to wiggle the
 hose.  When I opened the valve on top of the tank again, I heard no hiss
 and proceeded with the grille starting procedure and leaving the doors to
 the tank compartment open.  When I pushed the ignition button, not only did
 it ignite the grille burners, It ignited a significant flame around the
 valve on top of the tank in such a manner that I could not reach the valve
 handle/knob to turn it off!
 'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly identified
 myself, location and situation to the dispatcher, Propane leak with active
 flame that keeps me from reaching the valve, 'needing help NOW!
 Dispatcher started asking his questions, and I went through all of it again
 and finished with, While we're talking, I hope you have a truck underway,
 I need it now!

 Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began to
 hear the sirens headed my way, and noticed that the flame pattern around
 the valve and top of the tank had changed slightly so that I may be able to
 use the pliers to turn the valve bit by bit to turn the gas off.  'Grabbed
 the pliers and began to get a grip on the hard-to-hold triangular-shaped
 knob while trying to dodge the flames.  After several tries, I began to
 find a way to grip the knob and turn it off a bit each time.  I finally got
 it off as the fire truck pulled up in front of the house.

 'Was literally bar-b-q ing my hand - 'got coupla small first degree burn
 (very minor) places on inner, top of thumb.  Singed hairs on back of
 fingers, hand and wrist.

 Wilton
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Re: [MBZ] ?

2015-08-03 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
Home Depot, self-leveling concrete?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 I spent most of yesterday jacking Angie's parent's 150 year old house
 trying to level out the kitchen so we can lay tile. We bought the tile for
 them at Christmas 2013, I'd like to get it down before this Christmas.
 After replacing 2 wooden posts and raising half of the house about 3/4 the
 floor is pretty level and has most of the sag taken out of the center so
 the peel and stick tiles will probably survive for a good long time.Before
 you denigrate peel and stick tiles they'll be replacing linoleum from the
 '60s that is literally worn through...
 -Curt

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[MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread WILTON via Mercedes
Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after installing full, 
20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.

'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store.  'Thought I 
heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the clerk lady was filling 
it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at the valve shaft?  She replied, 
Nah, I probably didn't have the fill/charging connection quite tight enough.

Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting hot enough.  
I read owner's manual, and realized that she was turning it on in such a manner 
(too quickly) as to cause a safety feature to keep it from providing high heat. 
 During my tests, I temporarily installed the full tank and found it leaking at 
the fill/dispensing valve when I opened the valve on top of the tank.  I 
changed the bottles back to the old tank.  Coupla days later I took the 
newly-filled tank back to the hardware store and tried to tell 'em that, 
indeed, it does leak and asked if they could change the valve.  'Lady who had 
filled it nearly went ballistic when I tried to ask her if she remembered my 
concern about it while she was filling it.  Another clerk (male) took the 
bottle to the charging station, plugged it in and declared, Not leaking; ya 
may not have had the connection tight enough.  I replied, Well, I had it as 
tight as I could get it with a wrench (big pliers).

'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the grille until I 
installed it yesterday.

When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the grille, I heard a 
slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the valve,  got on the 
connection nut again with the big pliers while trying to wiggle the hose.  When 
I opened the valve on top of the tank again, I heard no hiss and proceeded with 
the grille starting procedure and leaving the doors to the tank compartment 
open.  When I pushed the ignition button, not only did it ignite the grille 
burners, It ignited a significant flame around the valve on top of the tank in 
such a manner that I could not reach the valve handle/knob to turn it off!  

'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly identified myself, 
location and situation to the dispatcher, Propane leak with active flame that 
keeps me from reaching the valve, 'needing help NOW!  Dispatcher started 
asking his questions, and I went through all of it again and finished with, 
While we're talking, I hope you have a truck underway, I need it now!

Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began to hear the 
sirens headed my way, and noticed that the flame pattern around the valve and 
top of the tank had changed slightly so that I may be able to use the pliers to 
turn the valve bit by bit to turn the gas off.  'Grabbed the pliers and began 
to get a grip on the hard-to-hold triangular-shaped knob while trying to dodge 
the flames.  After several tries, I began to find a way to grip the knob and 
turn it off a bit each time.  I finally got it off as the fire truck pulled up 
in front of the house.

'Was literally bar-b-q ing my hand - 'got coupla small first degree burn (very 
minor) places on inner, top of thumb.  Singed hairs on back of fingers, hand 
and wrist.

Wilton 
  
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a little excitement, propane fire

2015-08-03 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
ATTABOY!  Flammable gases are not to be taken lightly. I think you dodged
one when the tank didn't explode.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:35 PM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Yesterday 'bout 5 PM, I had a few minutes of excitement after installing
 full, 20 # tank of propane on my Weber grille.

 'Had the tank filled 2 or 3 months ago at local hardware store.  'Thought
 I heard it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve while the clerk lady was
 filling it, and asked her, Is that bottle leaking at the valve shaft?
 She replied, Nah, I probably didn't have the fill/charging connection
 quite tight enough.

 Coupla months  ago, SWMBO had problem with the grille not getting hot
 enough.  I read owner's manual, and realized that she was turning it on in
 such a manner (too quickly) as to cause a safety feature to keep it from
 providing high heat.  During my tests, I temporarily installed the full
 tank and found it leaking at the fill/dispensing valve when I opened the
 valve on top of the tank.  I changed the bottles back to the old tank.
 Coupla days later I took the newly-filled tank back to the hardware store
 and tried to tell 'em that, indeed, it does leak and asked if they could
 change the valve.  'Lady who had filled it nearly went ballistic when I
 tried to ask her if she remembered my concern about it while she was
 filling it.  Another clerk (male) took the bottle to the charging station,
 plugged it in and declared, Not leaking; ya may not have had the
 connection tight enough.  I replied, Well, I had it as tight as I could
 get it with a wrench (big pliers).

 'Brought the tank back home and sat it on patio/terrace by the grille
 until I installed it yesterday.

 When I first opened the valve on top of the tank to start the grille, I
 heard a slight hiss/leak at the valve; after closing the valve,  got on
 the connection nut again with the big pliers while trying to wiggle the
 hose.  When I opened the valve on top of the tank again, I heard no hiss
 and proceeded with the grille starting procedure and leaving the doors to
 the tank compartment open.  When I pushed the ignition button, not only did
 it ignite the grille burners, It ignited a significant flame around the
 valve on top of the tank in such a manner that I could not reach the valve
 handle/knob to turn it off!

 'Grabbed my cell phone and told Siri to call 911.  'Clearly identified
 myself, location and situation to the dispatcher, Propane leak with active
 flame that keeps me from reaching the valve, 'needing help NOW!
 Dispatcher started asking his questions, and I went through all of it again
 and finished with, While we're talking, I hope you have a truck underway,
 I need it now!

 Fire station is only about 10 to 12 blocks away, so I quickly began to
 hear the sirens headed my way, and noticed that the flame pattern around
 the valve and top of the tank had changed slightly so that I may be able to
 use the pliers to turn the valve bit by bit to turn the gas off.  'Grabbed
 the pliers and began to get a grip on the hard-to-hold triangular-shaped
 knob while trying to dodge the flames.  After several tries, I began to
 find a way to grip the knob and turn it off a bit each time.  I finally got
 it off as the fire truck pulled up in front of the house.

 'Was literally bar-b-q ing my hand - 'got coupla small first degree burn
 (very minor) places on inner, top of thumb.  Singed hairs on back of
 fingers, hand and wrist.

 Wilton

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-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves.

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] ?

2015-08-03 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Ahh the workday. By the time you wrote I'd already been at work for nearly 2 
hours inflicting knowledge on the unsuspecting...
I spent most of yesterday jacking Angie's parent's 150 year old house trying to 
level out the kitchen so we can lay tile. We bought the tile for them at 
Christmas 2013, I'd like to get it down before this Christmas. After replacing 
2 wooden posts and raising half of the house about 3/4 the floor is pretty 
level and has most of the sag taken out of the center so the peel and stick 
tiles will probably survive for a good long time.Before you denigrate peel and 
stick tiles they'll be replacing linoleum from the '60s that is literally worn 
through...
-Curt
  From: WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: mercedes list mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com 
 Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 9:59 AM
 Subject: [MBZ] ?
   

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Re: [MBZ] ?

2015-08-03 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

ATTABOY.

WIlton

- Original Message - 
From: Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Curly McLain 126die...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] ?



Sir,

All vehicles functioning, or in for known repairs.  No Problems or 
questions to report, Sir!


No off topic ramblings thus far today, Sir!

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Re: [MBZ] ?

2015-08-03 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

'Nother ATTABOY!

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Fred Moir via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Fred Moir fredh.s...@hotmail.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] ?


Alles.I'm in for my morning tea at 10:40 hrs. So far the car has new 
center bearing and mount, new flex joints and a re-positioned rear muffler 
hanger.I have been burning daylight at a good rate, Sir!


Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.


Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 09:14:33 -0500
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] ?
From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
CC: 126die...@gmail.com

Sir,

All vehicles functioning, or in for known repairs.  No Problems or
questions to report, Sir!

No off topic ramblings thus far today, Sir!


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[MBZ] ?

2015-08-03 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

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Re: [MBZ] ?

2015-08-03 Thread M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes
!

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 8:59 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:


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Re: [MBZ] ?

2015-08-03 Thread Fred Moir via Mercedes
XYZ?

Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.

 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 09:59:07 -0400
 Subject: [MBZ] ?
 From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
 CC: wilt...@nc.rr.com
  
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Re: [MBZ] ?

2015-08-03 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

Up and at 'em!  Daylight's aburnin'.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: mercedes list mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 9:59 AM
Subject: [MBZ] ?




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Re: [MBZ] OT: Here's your man, Grant

2015-08-03 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Hahahhaha... Andrew... Thank you for being dependable.

Be sure and call me this winter, when it sets new record cold, for the 4th
year in a row... I'll try to feel your pain

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 CAMPAIGN 2016:Ted Cruz professes 'full-out denial' of climate
 changePublished:
 Monday, August 3, 2015

 Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz said yesterday he does not
 believe global warming is occurring.

 The Texas senator said during a forum hosted by Freedom Partners, part of
 the Koch brothers political network, that the data and facts don't
 support that global warming is occurring, a statement that the moderator
 of the forum characterized as a full-out denial.

 Cruz has previously likened people who believe in climate change to
 flat-Earthers and says the concept is a Trojan horse used by liberals to
 impose massive government controls on the economy (*Greenwire*
 http://www.eenews.net/greenwire/stories/1060015910/, March 27).

 The senator also came out in opposition to the Clean Power Plan set to be
 unveiled by the Obama administration today.

 Cruz's stance sets him apart from other Republican presidential candidates;
 none of the 16 others has come out prominently against the science of
 climate change (Ben Jacobs, London*Guardian*
 
 http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/03/ted-cruz-expresses-full-out-denial-of-global-warming-during-forum
 ,
 Aug. 2). *-- BTP*
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Re: [MBZ] Power Booster saga

2015-08-03 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
If this car has a manual transmission and good parking brake, I'd be
tempted to limp it home to troubleshoot / repair in comfort.  Every time
you apply the hydraulic brakes, you'd have to pull off and use the bleeder
valve to relieve the pressure.  Sounds like the brakes will stop the car
just fine in an emergency.

My father purchased a '65 Chrysler that would bind up the rear brakes if
you used them, we figured out that reversing a couple feet and applying the
brakes would free them so that you could drive to the next stop.  After we
limped it along like that for several hundred miles, the brakes fixed
themselves, worked just fine for the rest of the trip.  That car had Lot
Sickness from sitting too long without being driven.  My father's mechanic
thought there was a leather seal somewhere in that brake system that had
probably dried up from sitting, and exercising it had restored it.  I
don't like when a car fixes itself, especially a critical system like
brakes, but sometimes you just accept it and drive on.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Sounds like hoses, especially if after sitting 1/2 hour the brakes are
 free again.  I put new hoses on one 240D, and after a year, the LF was
 swollen shut.  ATE hoses...  I have not attacked the problem yet.  Am just
 letting the car sit for now.

 As Mr DIllon said, open the bleeder and push back the brake pads from the
 rotor.  If it binds up and is relieved by opening the bleeder, you have bad
 hoses.




 A few weeks ago I mentioned I broke down on the way to my shorehouse. Since
  I  replaced the power booster on my 78 240D before I went ahead 
 ordered
 A PB from Rockauto.con,got it in a day  a half .I contortingly  installed
 it [ Dan- easy for me being 5'-6]  Then I realized the check  valve on the
 vacuum pump was kaput.  Couldn't remove it due to the galling  between the
 steel valve  the aluminum body. So I put in a new one. I even  had to
 remove
 a broken bolt from the previous owner. Bled the brakes with my  homemade
 pressure bleeder [Boy that's fun !!]
  Then when I would drive it a few miles,after a few
 lights my front right  caliper would lock up  I had to abandon the car
 Half an
 hour later I come  back I would drive back to my house before it would get
 tight again. I  installed both front NEW calipers[Bendix] just 2 years
 ago. I
 replaced all four  brake hoses about 4 years ago.
   My question  is does this sound like  brake hoses collapsing on the
 inside ?? I don't remember my source for these  hoses [Chinese?] My car
 brakes would be fine after it cools  down  after a half hour or more. I
 bled
 the brakes again still same thing.
  I did notice that my rear  brake hoses did have some black specs
 when I bled them so I'm wondering about  the hoses.
HELP ! I'm now 92 miles away from my  car since I had to come home
 due to renters.  I'm 4 weeks away from My week  at the house when I could
 work on it again in my driveway. Any suggestions ?? If  I need hoses I'll
 order
 from MB. Caliper from Rockauto. THanx guys.

 Bob
 1983 240D

 PS runs like a new car except for the eventual lockup


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[MBZ] OT: Here's your man, Grant

2015-08-03 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
CAMPAIGN 2016:Ted Cruz professes 'full-out denial' of climate changePublished:
Monday, August 3, 2015

Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz said yesterday he does not
believe global warming is occurring.

The Texas senator said during a forum hosted by Freedom Partners, part of
the Koch brothers political network, that the data and facts don't
support that global warming is occurring, a statement that the moderator
of the forum characterized as a full-out denial.

Cruz has previously likened people who believe in climate change to
flat-Earthers and says the concept is a Trojan horse used by liberals to
impose massive government controls on the economy (*Greenwire*
http://www.eenews.net/greenwire/stories/1060015910/, March 27).

The senator also came out in opposition to the Clean Power Plan set to be
unveiled by the Obama administration today.

Cruz's stance sets him apart from other Republican presidential candidates;
none of the 16 others has come out prominently against the science of
climate change (Ben Jacobs, London*Guardian*
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/03/ted-cruz-expresses-full-out-denial-of-global-warming-during-forum,
Aug. 2). *-- BTP*
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