Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation
Hi Luther, One thing about the torque sequence - typically, it's best to start in the middle and work towards the outside.. Hmmm... I'm havng trouble finding a way to dcscribe it... if the cam cover looks like this - with the #s being bolts -- 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 7 - 8 - 9 - 10-11-12 1st, snug one of the middles - 3,4,9 or 10. then the one opposite/other side - say you did 3, the next would be 10, then 9, then 4, then 8,5,2,11,1,12,7 6. That way, the surface will be kept smooth as any imperfections will be pushed to the outer edges with the tightening of each fastener, It's probably too late for you, but it should be disassembled in a similar sequence. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List Mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:35 PM Subject: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.10/943 - Release Date: 8/8/2007 5:38 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation
Both the removal and tightening sequence of a camshaft on a 603 is determined by the lobes that have pressure on them at TDC - i.e. open valves. The crankshaft and camshaft markings must both be at TDC. When I say sequence, I mean the order in which you start tightening (or removing) the bolts as pressure is applied to the camshaft from the valve springs, not just the order in which you torque them down after they are snug. -Dave Walton On 8/12/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Luther, One thing about the torque sequence - typically, it's best to start in the middle and work towards the outside.. Hmmm... I'm havng trouble finding a way to dcscribe it... if the cam cover looks like this - with the #s being bolts -- 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 7 - 8 - 9 - 10-11-12 1st, snug one of the middles - 3,4,9 or 10. then the one opposite/other side - say you did 3, the next would be 10, then 9, then 4, then 8,5,2,11,1,12,7 6. That way, the surface will be kept smooth as any imperfections will be pushed to the outer edges with the tightening of each fastener, It's probably too late for you, but it should be disassembled in a similar sequence. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List Mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:35 PM Subject: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.10/943 - Release Date: 8/8/2007 5:38 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation
of course you're right - I should ave said my method starts once the fasteneers are down to the 1st position. Thanks for clarifying - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation Both the removal and tightening sequence of a camshaft on a 603 is determined by the lobes that have pressure on them at TDC - i.e. open valves. The crankshaft and camshaft markings must both be at TDC. When I say sequence, I mean the order in which you start tightening (or removing) the bolts as pressure is applied to the camshaft from the valve springs, not just the order in which you torque them down after they are snug. -Dave Walton On 8/12/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Luther, One thing about the torque sequence - typically, it's best to start in the middle and work towards the outside.. Hmmm... I'm havng trouble finding a way to dcscribe it... if the cam cover looks like this - with the #s being bolts -- 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 7 - 8 - 9 - 10-11-12 1st, snug one of the middles - 3,4,9 or 10. then the one opposite/other side - say you did 3, the next would be 10, then 9, then 4, then 8,5,2,11,1,12,7 6. That way, the surface will be kept smooth as any imperfections will be pushed to the outer edges with the tightening of each fastener, It's probably too late for you, but it should be disassembled in a similar sequence. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List Mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:35 PM Subject: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.10/943 - Release Date: 8/8/2007 5:38 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.13/946 - Release Date: 8/10/2007 3:50 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation
It certainly makes sense to me to follow the center-out tightening sequence for the final torque down. That's when they have us do for all the other tightening sequences I've run into. -Dave Walton On 8/12/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: of course you're right - I should ave said my method starts once the fasteneers are down to the 1st position. Thanks for clarifying - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation Both the removal and tightening sequence of a camshaft on a 603 is determined by the lobes that have pressure on them at TDC - i.e. open valves. The crankshaft and camshaft markings must both be at TDC. When I say sequence, I mean the order in which you start tightening (or removing) the bolts as pressure is applied to the camshaft from the valve springs, not just the order in which you torque them down after they are snug. -Dave Walton On 8/12/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Luther, One thing about the torque sequence - typically, it's best to start in the middle and work towards the outside.. Hmmm... I'm havng trouble finding a way to dcscribe it... if the cam cover looks like this - with the #s being bolts -- 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 7 - 8 - 9 - 10-11-12 1st, snug one of the middles - 3,4,9 or 10. then the one opposite/other side - say you did 3, the next would be 10, then 9, then 4, then 8,5,2,11,1,12,7 6. That way, the surface will be kept smooth as any imperfections will be pushed to the outer edges with the tightening of each fastener, It's probably too late for you, but it should be disassembled in a similar sequence. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List Mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:35 PM Subject: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.10/943 - Release Date: 8/8/2007 5:38 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.13/946 - Release Date: 8/10/2007 3:50 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation
and if you don't do it this way, you risk breaking the cam. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dave walton Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation Both the removal and tightening sequence of a camshaft on a 603 is determined by the lobes that have pressure on them at TDC - i.e. open valves. The crankshaft and camshaft markings must both be at TDC. When I say sequence, I mean the order in which you start tightening (or removing) the bolts as pressure is applied to the camshaft from the valve springs, not just the order in which you torque them down after they are snug. -Dave Walton On 8/12/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Luther, One thing about the torque sequence - typically, it's best to start in the middle and work towards the outside.. Hmmm... I'm havng trouble finding a way to dcscribe it... if the cam cover looks like this - with the #s being bolts -- 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 7 - 8 - 9 - 10-11-12 1st, snug one of the middles - 3,4,9 or 10. then the one opposite/other side - say you did 3, the next would be 10, then 9, then 4, then 8,5,2,11,1,12,7 6. That way, the surface will be kept smooth as any imperfections will be pushed to the outer edges with the tightening of each fastener, It's probably too late for you, but it should be disassembled in a similar sequence. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List Mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:35 PM Subject: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.10/943 - Release Date: 8/8/2007 5:38 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Hey Luther, Why was the cam removed? What other parts were removed? The engine should turn over using a wrench on the crank bolt. If you cannot turn it there, the starter won't turn it either. I looked at the 603 manual it appears the cam hold downs are held in place by a single bolt? The sequence of tightening these bolts is important to get an even pressure on the cam.I haven't kept all the posts to this thread - I seem to rememebr you teling us how you tighten the bolts slowly -- I assume you made sure the cam bearing housings went back on in the same order? Please don't be offended by my questions - if they seem basic its only because I don't know your level of expertise on this stuff - Toms right, the Mobil 1 is not the problem. The only thing that will prevent the engine turnng is a mechanical interference - Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! I was attempting to turn the engine over by the crank with a 27mm socket and ratchet. Make any difference? :) Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:29:33 -0500, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You will not be able to easily turn the cam over by hand because of the pressures being applied by the lifters. Not being able to turn the cam over by hand woth leverage from the cam geat is an issue shows binding somewhere it's not the Mobil 1, it's something else. Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08/10/07 11:11 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Plan's been revised. The cam is coming back off and getting cleaned of all its Mobil 1, clean the head areas, then re-assemble with assembly lube. I tried to turn the engine over by hand, and couldn't. I might get back into it tomorrow morning after work. For now, I'm relaxing and sleeping the rest of the day away. Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:26:59 -0500, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a great plan for a safe startup. ;-) Just be sure there's no excess lubricants that can clog the passageways. It's amazing how small an amount will stop the flow - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.11/944 - Release Date: 8/9/2007 2:44 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
He replaced the head. Cam bearings are two bolts, and must be walked down one turn at a time on the four or five bearing caps specified in the shop manual to avoid warping or binding the cam. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
It should take some effort. You are turning the cam, the oil pump, opening the valves, operating the IP and taking the pistons through their compression stroke. The last time I turned a diesel over by hand, I was checking timing chain stretch and it was hard work. Can you take it through 2 complete revolutions without coming to a hard stop? Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 8/10/07 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! Sure, but it's how I set the valves on my OM617s AND how I set this engine to TDC before I removed the old head. It does take effort, but not enough that it can't be done. Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:34:54 -0500, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave beat me to the answer. You are dragging quite a bit around when you are turning the crack and it's not easy to move. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 8/10/07 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! I just checked - it's a 27mm. Turning the crankshaft is one of the few times I pull out my 3/4 drive set. It takes quite a bit of effort to manually turn things. I'm sure a 1/2 would survive just fine, but the extra leverage is a good thing. -Dave Walton -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
I just had another thought. If it the engine really is harder to turn than it was when you lined up the timing marks then you may have a lubrication problem with the cam bearings. Problem is, if you do than you may have already scuffed the bearings if you have then they will wear out quickly. Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08/11/07 12:25 PM To: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= It should take some effort. You are turning the cam, the oil pump, opening the valves, operating the IP and taking the pistons through their compression stroke. The last time I turned a diesel over by hand, I was checking timing chain stretch and it was hard work. Can you take it through 2 complete revolutions without coming to a hard stop? Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 8/10/07 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! Sure, but it's how I set the valves on my OM617s AND how I set this engine to TDC before I removed the old head. It does take effort, but not enough that it can't be done. Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:34:54 -0500, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave beat me to the answer. You are dragging quite a bit around when you are turning the crack and it's not easy to move. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 8/10/07 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! I just checked - it's a 27mm. Turning the crankshaft is one of the few times I pull out my 3/4 drive set. It takes quite a bit of effort to manually turn things. I'm sure a 1/2 would survive just fine, but the extra leverage is a good thing. -Dave Walton -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
RR of the cracked head. I installed the bearing caps in the exact order they were removed, they are numbered 1-7. Thank goodness :D Bearing caps 2,3,4, and 7 were installed 1 turn per bolt at a time. I'm thinking that the mechanical interference is not enough lube/metal on metal. That's why I'm going to take it off and put it back on with lube. If I do it right, and there's still an issue, I have bigger problems. This is my first head RR. All I'm doing is following the manual word for word. Hasn't been tough until this point. Luther On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:06:48 -0500, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Luther, Why was the cam removed? What other parts were removed? The engine should turn over using a wrench on the crank bolt. If you cannot turn it there, the starter won't turn it either. I looked at the 603 manual it appears the cam hold downs are held in place by a single bolt? The sequence of tightening these bolts is important to get an even pressure on the cam.I haven't kept all the posts to this thread - I seem to rememebr you teling us how you tighten the bolts slowly -- I assume you made sure the cam bearing housings went back on in the same order? Please don't be offended by my questions - if they seem basic its only because I don't know your level of expertise on this stuff - Toms right, the Mobil 1 is not the problem. The only thing that will prevent the engine turnng is a mechanical interference - Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Chain guide go in OK between cam sprocket and injection timer? As I remember, it's possible to get that one in upsidedown, in which case the chain won't move. I could turn mine fairly easily with a 1/2 drive standard length ratchet. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Chain guide was never removed, always stayed on the chain. Luther On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:10:59 -0500, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chain guide go in OK between cam sprocket and injection timer? As I remember, it's possible to get that one in upsidedown, in which case the chain won't move. I could turn mine fairly easily with a 1/2 drive standard length ratchet. Peter -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Does it rotate at all? Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Plan's been revised. The cam is coming back off and getting cleaned of all its Mobil 1, clean the head areas, then re-assemble with assembly lube. I tried to turn the engine over by hand, and couldn't. I might get back into it tomorrow morning after work. For now, I'm relaxing and sleeping the rest of the day away. Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:26:59 -0500, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a great plan for a safe startup. ;-) Just be sure there's no excess lubricants that can clog the passageways. It's amazing how small an amount will stop the flow - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
You will not be able to easily turn the cam over by hand because of the pressures being applied by the lifters. Not being able to turn the cam over by hand woth leverage from the cam geat is an issue shows binding somewhere it's not the Mobil 1, it's something else. Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08/10/07 11:11 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Plan's been revised. The cam is coming back off and getting cleaned of all its Mobil 1, clean the head areas, then re-assemble with assembly lube. I tried to turn the engine over by hand, and couldn't. I might get back into it tomorrow morning after work. For now, I'm relaxing and sleeping the rest of the day away. Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:26:59 -0500, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a great plan for a safe startup. ;-) Just be sure there's no excess lubricants that can clog the passageways. It's amazing how small an amount will stop the flow - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
I just checked - it's a 27mm. Turning the crankshaft is one of the few times I pull out my 3/4 drive set. It takes quite a bit of effort to manually turn things. I'm sure a 1/2 would survive just fine, but the extra leverage is a good thing. -Dave Walton On 8/10/07, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was attempting to turn the engine over by the crank with a 27mm socket and ratchet. Make any difference? :) Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:29:33 -0500, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You will not be able to easily turn the cam over by hand because of the pressures being applied by the lifters. Not being able to turn the cam over by hand woth leverage from the cam geat is an issue shows binding somewhere it's not the Mobil 1, it's something else. Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08/10/07 11:11 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Plan's been revised. The cam is coming back off and getting cleaned of all its Mobil 1, clean the head areas, then re-assemble with assembly lube. I tried to turn the engine over by hand, and couldn't. I might get back into it tomorrow morning after work. For now, I'm relaxing and sleeping the rest of the day away. Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:26:59 -0500, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a great plan for a safe startup. ;-) Just be sure there's no excess lubricants that can clog the passageways. It's amazing how small an amount will stop the flow - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Dave beat me to the answer. You are dragging quite a bit around when you are turning the crack and it's not easy to move. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 8/10/07 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! I just checked - it's a 27mm. Turning the crankshaft is one of the few times I pull out my 3/4 drive set. It takes quite a bit of effort to manually turn things. I'm sure a 1/2 would survive just fine, but the extra leverage is a good thing. -Dave Walton On 8/10/07, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was attempting to turn the engine over by the crank with a 27mm socket and ratchet. Make any difference? :) Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:29:33 -0500, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You will not be able to easily turn the cam over by hand because of the pressures being applied by the lifters. Not being able to turn the cam over by hand woth leverage from the cam geat is an issue shows binding somewhere it's not the Mobil 1, it's something else. Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08/10/07 11:11 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Plan's been revised. The cam is coming back off and getting cleaned of all its Mobil 1, clean the head areas, then re-assemble with assembly lube. I tried to turn the engine over by hand, and couldn't. I might get back into it tomorrow morning after work. For now, I'm relaxing and sleeping the rest of the day away. Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:26:59 -0500, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a great plan for a safe startup. ;-) Just be sure there's no excess lubricants that can clog the passageways. It's amazing how small an amount will stop the flow - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
I was attempting to turn the engine over by the crank with a 27mm socket and ratchet. Make any difference? :) Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:29:33 -0500, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You will not be able to easily turn the cam over by hand because of the pressures being applied by the lifters. Not being able to turn the cam over by hand woth leverage from the cam geat is an issue shows binding somewhere it's not the Mobil 1, it's something else. Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08/10/07 11:11 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Plan's been revised. The cam is coming back off and getting cleaned of all its Mobil 1, clean the head areas, then re-assemble with assembly lube. I tried to turn the engine over by hand, and couldn't. I might get back into it tomorrow morning after work. For now, I'm relaxing and sleeping the rest of the day away. Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:26:59 -0500, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a great plan for a safe startup. ;-) Just be sure there's no excess lubricants that can clog the passageways. It's amazing how small an amount will stop the flow - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Sounds like a great plan for a safe startup. ;-) Just be sure there's no excess lubricants that can clog the passageways. It's amazing how small an amount will stop the flow - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 1:33 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! I've got a good portion of a quart on the cam/bearings etc and will dump more on as I crank the engine over by hand. Then I'll start it. Will also do a dry start for oil pressure. Luther On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:35:32 -0500, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must follow the directions with Assembly Lube, as with everything else - some people operate on the principle of if a little is good a lot is better - not with assy lube - when applying the assy lube make sure you use a small dab and rub it in good - a blob can stop the flow of oil. And that's when problems start. As Tom says, oil works as long as you have a good film. Another method that helps is to leave spark plugs / glow plugs out and disconnect the ignition/main power line so the engine will not start - then crank until you see oil pressure on the gauge. Good luck. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! Oil is fine as long as you are sure that you have a good coating during assembly. The risk with oil is that so much may run or drip off that that you don't have a good oil film in the bearing. But this is not likely if you oil then assemble right away. A lot of people like assembly lube because you can verify visually that there is enough on the part. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.11/944 - Release Date: 8/9/2007 2:44 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Sure, but it's how I set the valves on my OM617s AND how I set this engine to TDC before I removed the old head. It does take effort, but not enough that it can't be done. Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:34:54 -0500, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave beat me to the answer. You are dragging quite a bit around when you are turning the crack and it's not easy to move. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 8/10/07 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! I just checked - it's a 27mm. Turning the crankshaft is one of the few times I pull out my 3/4 drive set. It takes quite a bit of effort to manually turn things. I'm sure a 1/2 would survive just fine, but the extra leverage is a good thing. -Dave Walton -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Should be fairly easy to rotate a 603 -- if quite stuck, something is very wrong. I would remove the cam and make sure you have #1 on TDC. Check the installation, too -- if you got it sorta cocked, it may not turn because it's bound. It's not hard to turn the cam with a large screwdriver inserted between the hub and locating pin. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Well, something has to be stopping it all from rotating. The timing chain goes around the injector pump, vacuum pump, crankshaft and then the camshaft. There are a few chain guides too - the two between the injector pump and the camshaft just site there, while the one on the other side applies pressure to tension the chain. Maybe loosen the chain tension and see which still have some wiggle in them? You can get to the injector pump gear underneath the vacuum pump. -Dave Walton On 8/10/07, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure, but it's how I set the valves on my OM617s AND how I set this engine to TDC before I removed the old head. It does take effort, but not enough that it can't be done. Luther On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:34:54 -0500, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave beat me to the answer. You are dragging quite a bit around when you are turning the crack and it's not easy to move. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 8/10/07 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! I just checked - it's a 27mm. Turning the crankshaft is one of the few times I pull out my 3/4 drive set. It takes quite a bit of effort to manually turn things. I'm sure a 1/2 would survive just fine, but the extra leverage is a good thing. -Dave Walton -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation
Are you tightening everything down before fastening the cam gear (you should be)? If so then no problem, just get everything tight then move the cam around to TDC. What's going on is the pressure from the lifters on the cam lobes are moving the cam around. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Luther Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:35 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation
How do you move the camshaft around? I tried that the first time I tightened it down, and couldn't budge it. ? Luther On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:52:22 -0500, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you tightening everything down before fastening the cam gear (you should be)? If so then no problem, just get everything tight then move the cam around to TDC. What's going on is the pressure from the lifters on the cam lobes are moving the cam around. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Luther Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:35 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation
If you can't turn the cam in the head with everything bolted down, you have a problem - if you can't turn it, how do you expect the timing chain to? Did you have a machinist bless the head, or at least take it out of a car you saw running? On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 12:57:02PM -0500, Luther wrote: How do you move the camshaft around? I tried that the first time I tightened it down, and couldn't budge it. ? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation
Remove the vacuum pump. It's return spring is what keeps the timing chain from moving freely. The cam gear is keyed to the cam as I recall. You might be off by a tooth. -Dave Walton On 8/9/07, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation
Once everything is together - timing chain in place over camshaft - the timing mark on the camshaft should line up with the crankshaft at TDC. The timing mark is on the camshaft, not the gear. You can then rotate the engine with a socket on the crankshaft. There will be a noticeable and dangerous lurch of the timing chain when the vacuum pump clears top position and it's spring pulls it back down forcing the timing chain along with it. If the camshaft timing mark does not line up, I was able to remove the chain tensioner and get enough slack to move the timing chain over the camshaft gear one link at a time. This is a good time to check on the timing chain stretch. There is no adjustment if the marks do not line up other than to replace the timing chain. Don't try to rotate the engine if the marks do not line up. The resistance may be due to the valves hitting the piston. Hope this helps... -Dave Walton On 8/9/07, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remove the vacuum pump. It's return spring is what keeps the timing chain from moving freely. The cam gear is keyed to the cam as I recall. You might be off by a tooth. -Dave Walton On 8/9/07, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
I'm sure I wasn't off by a tooth since I had lightly scribed marks on the cam sprocket and chain right at TDC. Tom's suggestion of using the cam sprocket to move the camshaft worked. Cam is on and I can continue on with the reassembly. Thanks for the help. Luther On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:15:21 -0500, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remove the vacuum pump. It's return spring is what keeps the timing chain from moving freely. The cam gear is keyed to the cam as I recall. You might be off by a tooth. -Dave Walton On 8/9/07, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Not sure what is keeping the cam from lining up - never had a problem but one thing is *critical* -- lubrication to the cam bearings! You *must* coat the bearings with a startup lube to prevent damage. If you fire up and hear a squeal you;re screwed. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! I'm sure I wasn't off by a tooth since I had lightly scribed marks on the cam sprocket and chain right at TDC. Tom's suggestion of using the cam sprocket to move the camshaft worked. Cam is on and I can continue on with the reassembly. Thanks for the help. Luther On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:15:21 -0500, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remove the vacuum pump. It's return spring is what keeps the timing chain from moving freely. The cam gear is keyed to the cam as I recall. You might be off by a tooth. -Dave Walton On 8/9/07, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.10/943 - Release Date: 8/8/2007 5:38 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Is Mobile 1 good enough? On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:30:31 -0500, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure what is keeping the cam from lining up - never had a problem but one thing is *critical* -- lubrication to the cam bearings! You *must* coat the bearings with a startup lube to prevent damage. If you fire up and hear a squeal you;re screwed. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
I've always used assembly grease. I like this blood-red stuff I got from NAPA. Sticks around long enough for oil to coat things nicely. On 8/9/07, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Mobile 1 good enough? Casey __ '87 300TD intercooler/propane/biodiesel '94 100CSQ Avant '90 90Q '89 Bluestar ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
Oil is fine as long as you are sure that you have a good coating during assembly. The risk with oil is that so much may run or drip off that that you don't have a good oil film in the bearing. But this is not likely if you oil then assemble right away. A lot of people like assembly lube because you can verify visually that there is enough on the part. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeitgeist Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 6:25 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! I've always used assembly grease. I like this blood-red stuff I got from NAPA. Sticks around long enough for oil to coat things nicely. On 8/9/07, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Mobile 1 good enough? Casey __ '87 300TD intercooler/propane/biodiesel '94 100CSQ Avant '90 90Q '89 Bluestar ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation
On the 4 cylinders, a piston hits tdc every 180 degrees of crank rotation. On the cam, since it turns at 1/2 the crank speed, an intake (or exhaust) valve opens every 90 degrees. When the cam is not restrained by the timing chain, it will rotate to a position between the lobes. What I found by trial and error on the OM621 engines was that if I set the crank at 45 BTDC I could put in the cam and timing chain, and install the IP because the cam and IP would be close enough to the resting position not to run away, and the crank was close enough I could get the timing from there. When I did the valve seals on my 603, I believe I put the crank on tdc, then put in the cam and its sprocket, and turned the sprocket by hand or with a socket on the nut to line up the timing mark and wrapped the chain on it. I'm sure it was a bit of a tussle to hold the cam and get both halves of the chain over the sprocket and get a connection link in, but I don't remember it being as bad as replacing a M103 water pump. Congratulation of figuring out the combination that worked! Loren At 12:35 PM 8/9/2007, you wrote: Anyone have experience installing camshafts? I can't keep mine at TDC when I'm tightening it. I've tried tightening in these orders. 7,4,3,2; 2,3,4,7; 7,2,4,3; and 2,3,4,7,7,4,3,2 etc. I've tried all those patterns twice; the first time tightening the right bolt first, then the left, and second time tightening the left bolt, then the right. Yes, I am tightening all 8 bolts 1 turn before going through the sequence again. I've been working on it nearly 2 hours this morning and cannot get it to hold TDC. Advice? TIA all. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
You must follow the directions with Assembly Lube, as with everything else - some people operate on the principle of if a little is good a lot is better - not with assy lube - when applying the assy lube make sure you use a small dab and rub it in good - a blob can stop the flow of oil. And that's when problems start. As Tom says, oil works as long as you have a good film. Another method that helps is to leave spark plugs / glow plugs out and disconnect the ignition/main power line so the engine will not start - then crank until you see oil pressure on the gauge. Good luck. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! Oil is fine as long as you are sure that you have a good coating during assembly. The risk with oil is that so much may run or drip off that that you don't have a good oil film in the bearing. But this is not likely if you oil then assemble right away. A lot of people like assembly lube because you can verify visually that there is enough on the part. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeitgeist Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 6:25 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! I've always used assembly grease. I like this blood-red stuff I got from NAPA. Sticks around long enough for oil to coat things nicely. On 8/9/07, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Mobile 1 good enough? Casey __ '87 300TD intercooler/propane/biodiesel '94 100CSQ Avant '90 90Q '89 Bluestar ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.10/943 - Release Date: 8/8/2007 5:38 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success!
I've got a good portion of a quart on the cam/bearings etc and will dump more on as I crank the engine over by hand. Then I'll start it. Will also do a dry start for oil pressure. Luther On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:35:32 -0500, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must follow the directions with Assembly Lube, as with everything else - some people operate on the principle of if a little is good a lot is better - not with assy lube - when applying the assy lube make sure you use a small dab and rub it in good - a blob can stop the flow of oil. And that's when problems start. As Tom says, oil works as long as you have a good film. Another method that helps is to leave spark plugs / glow plugs out and disconnect the ignition/main power line so the engine will not start - then crank until you see oil pressure on the gauge. Good luck. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 camshaft installation-success! Oil is fine as long as you are sure that you have a good coating during assembly. The risk with oil is that so much may run or drip off that that you don't have a good oil film in the bearing. But this is not likely if you oil then assemble right away. A lot of people like assembly lube because you can verify visually that there is enough on the part. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
