Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
I had to "think" about this a LOT before it started making sense to me, intuitively. My main home heat pump is a mismatched system with a Unico high velocity air handler (small 2 inch ducts for my 150 year-old house) and a Maytag heat pump, aka compressor (what I always called it) or condenser (really misleading). Because it's mismatched (and because the Unico is oddball) all the published pressure data from the heat pump maker are useless. So I had to learn about the basics. I had a growing leak in the air handler coil which grew over several years until I would leak down in just a few months, and that ain't cheap at R22 prices. I converted to R422a which is compatible with the old oil and added two cans of ES leak stop and the refrigerant appears to be stable. I will eventually need to replace the system and go to R410a. A replacement Unico coil is about $2k and ther is no easy way around that. A replacement heat pump is $2.5-3K for even a basic one. And labor is $1-2K depending pn who I hire. So I'm thinking of upgrade this winter if I can keep the old system running the rest of the hot weather. > -Original Message- > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Meade > Dillon via Mercedes > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2018 7:18 AM > To: Mercedes > Cc: Meade Dillon > Subject: Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC > > Thanks Scott, superheat and how to diagnose a system with that info is > not easy for me to figure out, I need to study a bit. > - > Max > Charleston SC > > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:20 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > In simple terms, the TXV regulates superheat, which is the temperature > > rise (above boiling) of the refrigerant gas as it exits the > evaporator. > > Upstream of the TXV, you want a solid column of (high pressure) liquid > > refrigerant (from the condenser) that is cool enough that there's no > > chance of bubbles (boiling) before the liquid reaches the TXV. The > > TXV meters liquid refrigerant into the evaporator but not so much that > > there is a chance pf liquid refrigerant exiting the evaporator and > > getting to the compressor. You don't want incompressible liquid > refrigerant "slugging" > > the compressor. With the right superheat (maybe 10 degrees) we can be > > sure all the refrigerant is gas (no liquid). If the superheat is too > > high some of the evaporator is being wasted (filled with gas) when it > > could holding liquid that would provide more cooling. > > > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
> Scott wrote: > In simple terms, ... > If the superheat is too high some of the evaporator is being > wasted (filled with gas) when it could holding liquid that would > provide more cooling. You are correct that if the superheat is too high the capacity for cooling goes down - but to keep the physics accurate... *smiles* The cooling in the evaporator is caused by evaporation - or boiling. The change of state from liquid to gas requires a _lot_ of heat. So we want gas in the evaporator. More importantly, we want it to _become_ gas in the evaporator. Ideal is only gas coming out. Anyway, good explanation on superheat and the process simplified. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Also not as bad as having to take the whole dash out. I still have nightmares about that one. MG Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Yes, most of the face of the evap is right there, I think. I'll bet that I'll need a fin comb on a stick or something so I can get all the big solids out. It will probably be awkward, maybe not as bad as under-dash yoga. - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:11 PM MG via Mercedes wrote: Enough room to clean it somehow? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Thanks Scott, superheat and how to diagnose a system with that info is not easy for me to figure out, I need to study a bit. - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:20 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > In simple terms, the TXV regulates superheat, which is the temperature > rise (above boiling) of the refrigerant gas as it exits the evaporator. > Upstream of the TXV, you want a solid column of (high pressure) liquid > refrigerant (from the condenser) that is cool enough that there's no chance > of bubbles (boiling) before the liquid reaches the TXV. The TXV meters > liquid refrigerant into the evaporator but not so much that there is a > chance pf liquid refrigerant exiting the evaporator and getting to the > compressor. You don't want incompressible liquid refrigerant "slugging" > the compressor. With the right superheat (maybe 10 degrees) we can be sure > all the refrigerant is gas (no liquid). If the superheat is too high some > of the evaporator is being wasted (filled with gas) when it could holding > liquid that would provide more cooling. > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Yes, most of the face of the evap is right there, I think. I'll bet that I'll need a fin comb on a stick or something so I can get all the big solids out. It will probably be awkward, maybe not as bad as under-dash yoga. - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:11 PM MG via Mercedes wrote: > Enough room to clean it somehow? > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
In simple terms, the TXV regulates superheat, which is the temperature rise (above boiling) of the refrigerant gas as it exits the evaporator. Upstream of the TXV, you want a solid column of (high pressure) liquid refrigerant (from the condenser) that is cool enough that there's no chance of bubbles (boiling) before the liquid reaches the TXV. The TXV meters liquid refrigerant into the evaporator but not so much that there is a chance pf liquid refrigerant exiting the evaporator and getting to the compressor. You don't want incompressible liquid refrigerant "slugging" the compressor. With the right superheat (maybe 10 degrees) we can be sure all the refrigerant is gas (no liquid). If the superheat is too high some of the evaporator is being wasted (filled with gas) when it could holding liquid that would provide more cooling. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Enough room to clean it somehow? MG Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: No air filter, so a crudded-up evap is definitely a possibility. I think Rich has one of those cameras, but I can get access to the dirty side by removing all the plastic cowling / drains and the mono-wiper, and then the blower motor and its housing. Just an hour or less to get to the front of the evap. - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 6:02 PM MG via Mercedes wrote: Max does that car have a cabin air filter? When changed last? Another thought is can you get hold of a endoscopy type camera to take a look at the condition of the evaporator? On my W123 when I took it out the bottom half of it was all crudded up between the fins with dirt and hair ETC. Could be you have the same problem. Just another thing to think of. MG Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: That's an option. The bigger / better condenser might mean some field engineering work in order to make it fit, and the expense of purchasing the thing, so I'm not too keen on going down that road. However, a bigger / better condenser would definitely improve system performance. Right now I'm getting about a 25 degree differential between ambient and the center vent airflow, about 50% of the time (which is when conditions are optimal). The rest of the time, not so good. The last of the bits that I've ordered have all arrived as of yesterday, so perhaps this weekend I'll make some time and attack this again. Plan is to discharge the current fill (hydrocarbon blend), install new expansion valve and new receiver / drier with a bit of oil, pull vacuum, install two cans (12 oz) of the blend, then one dose of system drier (converts any remaining water into a silicone oil), install Dan's magic ClipLight sealant to fix the leak in the evaporator, and then check performance and top up as needed. - Max Charleston SC On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 8:38 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: After all that, try the replacement condensor Dan put in his SDL. Dan sez it makes the R134 work like a real R12 system. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
No air filter, so a crudded-up evap is definitely a possibility. I think Rich has one of those cameras, but I can get access to the dirty side by removing all the plastic cowling / drains and the mono-wiper, and then the blower motor and its housing. Just an hour or less to get to the front of the evap. - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 6:02 PM MG via Mercedes wrote: > Max does that car have a cabin air filter? > When changed last? Another thought is can you > get hold of a endoscopy type camera to take a > look at the condition of the evaporator? On > my W123 when I took it out the bottom half of > it was all crudded up between the fins with > dirt and hair ETC. Could be you have the same > problem. Just another thing to think of. > > MG > > Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: > > That's an option. The bigger / better condenser might mean some field > > engineering work in order to make it fit, and the expense of purchasing > the > > thing, so I'm not too keen on going down that road. However, a bigger / > > better condenser would definitely improve system performance. > > > > Right now I'm getting about a 25 degree differential between ambient and > > the center vent airflow, about 50% of the time (which is when conditions > > are optimal). The rest of the time, not so good. The last of the bits > that > > I've ordered have all arrived as of yesterday, so perhaps this weekend > I'll > > make some time and attack this again. Plan is to discharge the current > > fill (hydrocarbon blend), install new expansion valve and new receiver / > > drier with a bit of oil, pull vacuum, install two cans (12 oz) of the > > blend, then one dose of system drier (converts any remaining water into a > > silicone oil), install Dan's magic ClipLight sealant to fix the leak in > the > > evaporator, and then check performance and top up as needed. > > - > > Max > > Charleston SC > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 8:38 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > >> After all that, try the replacement condensor Dan put in his SDL. Dan > >> sez it makes the R134 work like a real R12 system. > >> > >> > >> > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Max does that car have a cabin air filter? When changed last? Another thought is can you get hold of a endoscopy type camera to take a look at the condition of the evaporator? On my W123 when I took it out the bottom half of it was all crudded up between the fins with dirt and hair ETC. Could be you have the same problem. Just another thing to think of. MG Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: That's an option. The bigger / better condenser might mean some field engineering work in order to make it fit, and the expense of purchasing the thing, so I'm not too keen on going down that road. However, a bigger / better condenser would definitely improve system performance. Right now I'm getting about a 25 degree differential between ambient and the center vent airflow, about 50% of the time (which is when conditions are optimal). The rest of the time, not so good. The last of the bits that I've ordered have all arrived as of yesterday, so perhaps this weekend I'll make some time and attack this again. Plan is to discharge the current fill (hydrocarbon blend), install new expansion valve and new receiver / drier with a bit of oil, pull vacuum, install two cans (12 oz) of the blend, then one dose of system drier (converts any remaining water into a silicone oil), install Dan's magic ClipLight sealant to fix the leak in the evaporator, and then check performance and top up as needed. - Max Charleston SC On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 8:38 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: After all that, try the replacement condensor Dan put in his SDL. Dan sez it makes the R134 work like a real R12 system. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
That's an option. The bigger / better condenser might mean some field engineering work in order to make it fit, and the expense of purchasing the thing, so I'm not too keen on going down that road. However, a bigger / better condenser would definitely improve system performance. Right now I'm getting about a 25 degree differential between ambient and the center vent airflow, about 50% of the time (which is when conditions are optimal). The rest of the time, not so good. The last of the bits that I've ordered have all arrived as of yesterday, so perhaps this weekend I'll make some time and attack this again. Plan is to discharge the current fill (hydrocarbon blend), install new expansion valve and new receiver / drier with a bit of oil, pull vacuum, install two cans (12 oz) of the blend, then one dose of system drier (converts any remaining water into a silicone oil), install Dan's magic ClipLight sealant to fix the leak in the evaporator, and then check performance and top up as needed. - Max Charleston SC On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 8:38 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > After all that, try the replacement condensor Dan put in his SDL. Dan > sez it makes the R134 work like a real R12 system. > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
After all that, try the replacement condensor Dan put in his SDL. Dan sez it makes the R134 work like a real R12 system. Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: This school year, I'm pressed into duty as after-school taxi driver for my daughter, which means I have the joy of sitting in the car line at school for about 30-40 minutes, engine at idle, under the full sun and during the hottest and most humid part of the day. The AC in The White Whale is not up to this new mission, so today and tomorrow I'm going to see what can be done with stuff on hand to right the situation. Here's my plan, if anyone can think of something else clever and inexpensive, or at least possible this weekend, let me know. Check the refrigerant pressures, and if the hydrocarbon blend (enviro-safe I think) is low, top it up and check for leaks. Check the function of the electric cooling fan. Maybe add a switch so I can activate the fan manually? Check / clean between radiator and condenser. Check / clean front of the evaporator (under the blower fan, which is under the mono-wiper motor, which is under all that plastic under the windshield - fun!?). Part of the reason for poor performance of the HVAC is the vacuum pod for the center vents has failed, so no AC air ever comes from the center vents. I suspect that R of the dash to fix that vacuum pod and replace all the other pods will be my job NEXT weekend - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
That would make more sense to me since the sedan is smaller inside so wouldn't need as much cooling. Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Checked the 4S website [ http://www.4s.com/en/ ], they only list the 2 ton for my '87 wagon, and the 1.5 ton for my '95 sedan. - Max Charleston SC On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:38 AM Meade Dillon wrote: Thanks Manfred, I found them on RockAuto, listed for my '95 E300, both are from 4 Seasons. I've ordered one of each. The RockAuto 4 Seasons TXV for my '87 300TD is listed as just the 1.5 ton. - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
I'll download that and watch it. Thanks max. Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Here's a nice video explaining some basic diagnosis of auto HVAC using temperature readings only. https://youtu.be/wF37ihNBXq8 I should get the temperature probe for my Fluke meter. - Max Charleston SC On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 10:06 AM Meade Dillon wrote: Checked the 4S website [ http://www.4s.com/en/ ], they only list the 2 ton for my '87 wagon, and the 1.5 ton for my '95 sedan. - Max Charleston SC On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:38 AM Meade Dillon wrote: Thanks Manfred, I found them on RockAuto, listed for my '95 E300, both are from 4 Seasons. I've ordered one of each. The RockAuto 4 Seasons TXV for my '87 300TD is listed as just the 1.5 ton. - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Thanks Max, I looked at them and then looked up the one for my 83 300TD and it lists as 2 ton with 6.3 super heat. interesting. I think you might go ahead and try the 2 ton one in the whale. It should fit and might work better then the smaller one since both are listed for the E300. Would probably give you the best of both worlds high and low speed performance. MG Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Thanks Manfred, I found them on RockAuto, listed for my '95 E300, both are from 4 Seasons. I've ordered one of each. The RockAuto 4 Seasons TXV for my '87 300TD is listed as just the 1.5 ton. - Max Charleston SC On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:31 AM MG via Mercedes wrote: From what I remember reading one time the TXV comes right before the evaporator and limits the amount of freon going into the evaporator. The TXV has a diaphragm valve on the top of the body that remains in the ambient air under the dash. The rest of the body should be encased in a foam insulator (the last time I looked they were still available at MB) that keeps the body colder then ambient due to the flow of the cold freon (now mostly gas) back to the comp through the connection right below the diaphragm. The colder the body of the TXV gets in relation to the small temp sensing diaphragm on the top of it the less the pressure is in the bottom of the diaphragm and the more the diaphragm tries to open the valve to allow more freon through to keep the coils from freezing and also to keep a bit of liquid moving in there to transport the oil needed by the comp. As you loose freon the pressure on the suction side becomes less and less so the valve tries to compensate and open to let more freon through from the high side but there comes a time when there ain't no mo so it all cooling stops hopefully due to the low pressure switch which is there to protect the comp from self destruction. I have also been told that the valve is the same for the R12 and R134 because they are so close in pressure and due to the opening size adjustment available. That would to me also say that it will work just fine for the ES gases since they are supposed to have slightly lower pressures then R12 and that has been proven in my experience. As far as the difference in the valve capacity I would think that the 2 ton would flow more freon at max opening then the 1.5. The only thing I don't know is how that would impact the whole system. My guess is that would depend on the how much the valve is able to close. If they both close to the same minimum then there should be no problem but if the larger one can't close as small then the cooling at idle would probably be less. On the other end if the smaller valve can't open far enough then the pressures on the high side will tend to go up at high RPM and fuel mileage will suffer. Try to stick with the one meant for your car. MB has probably figured out the best one. Though they do say that in humid environments more capacity is better for cooling because the dehumidification takes a bit of the total capacity so maybe as long as the AC still cools enough at idle in town then the larger one is good enough. If they are both supposed to be for your car I would go for the larger one due to where you are. How did you find the two different valves? MG Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: What's the difference between an expansion valve that is Tonnage = 2.0 and Superheat = 5.5, vs expansion valve with Tonnage = 1.5 and Superheat = 11? According to what I've read, MB did not require the expansion valve to be changed when converting from R12 to R134A because the pressure curves are "close enough". Does that make sense? - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:03 AM Meade Dillon wrote: Expansion valve question: Anyone have an opinion on using an expansion valve made for R134 vs valve made for R12? Reading up on Jim's collected wisdom, it would seem that expansion valves (aka TXV = thermostatic expansion valve) need to be matched to the refrigerant. The propane / isobutane blend seems to work very well with R12 expansion valves. Perhaps part of my issue is using an R134 expansion valve? - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Here's a nice video explaining some basic diagnosis of auto HVAC using temperature readings only. https://youtu.be/wF37ihNBXq8 I should get the temperature probe for my Fluke meter. - Max Charleston SC On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 10:06 AM Meade Dillon wrote: > Checked the 4S website [ http://www.4s.com/en/ ], they only list the 2 > ton for my '87 wagon, and the 1.5 ton for my '95 sedan. > - > Max > Charleston SC > > > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:38 AM Meade Dillon wrote: > >> Thanks Manfred, I found them on RockAuto, listed for my '95 E300, both >> are from 4 Seasons. I've ordered one of each. >> >> The RockAuto 4 Seasons TXV for my '87 300TD is listed as just the 1.5 ton. >> - >> Max >> Charleston SC >> >> >> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Checked the 4S website [ http://www.4s.com/en/ ], they only list the 2 ton for my '87 wagon, and the 1.5 ton for my '95 sedan. - Max Charleston SC On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:38 AM Meade Dillon wrote: > Thanks Manfred, I found them on RockAuto, listed for my '95 E300, both are > from 4 Seasons. I've ordered one of each. > > The RockAuto 4 Seasons TXV for my '87 300TD is listed as just the 1.5 ton. > - > Max > Charleston SC > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Thanks Manfred, I found them on RockAuto, listed for my '95 E300, both are from 4 Seasons. I've ordered one of each. The RockAuto 4 Seasons TXV for my '87 300TD is listed as just the 1.5 ton. - Max Charleston SC On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:31 AM MG via Mercedes wrote: > From what I remember reading one time the > TXV comes right before the evaporator and > limits the amount of freon going into the > evaporator. > > The TXV has a diaphragm valve on the top of > the body that remains in the ambient air > under the dash. The rest of the body should > be encased in a foam insulator (the last time > I looked they were still available at MB) > that keeps the body colder then ambient due > to the flow of the cold freon (now mostly > gas) back to the comp through the connection > right below the diaphragm. The colder the > body of the TXV gets in relation to the small > temp sensing diaphragm on the top of it the > less the pressure is in the bottom of the > diaphragm and the more the diaphragm tries to > open the valve to allow more freon through to > keep the coils from freezing and also to keep > a bit of liquid moving in there to transport > the oil needed by the comp. > > As you loose freon the pressure on the > suction side becomes less and less so the > valve tries to compensate and open to let > more freon through from the high side but > there comes a time when there ain't no mo so > it all cooling stops hopefully due to the low > pressure switch which is there to protect the > comp from self destruction. > > I have also been told that the valve is the > same for the R12 and R134 because they are so > close in pressure and due to the opening size > adjustment available. That would to me also > say that it will work just fine for the ES > gases since they are supposed to have > slightly lower pressures then R12 and that > has been proven in my experience. > > As far as the difference in the valve > capacity I would think that the 2 ton would > flow more freon at max opening then the 1.5. > The only thing I don't know is how that would > impact the whole system. My guess is that > would depend on the how much the valve is > able to close. If they both close to the same > minimum then there should be no problem but > if the larger one can't close as small then > the cooling at idle would probably be less. > On the other end if the smaller valve can't > open far enough then the pressures on the > high side will tend to go up at high RPM and > fuel mileage will suffer. Try to stick with > the one meant for your car. MB has probably > figured out the best one. Though they do say > that in humid environments more capacity is > better for cooling because the > dehumidification takes a bit of the total > capacity so maybe as long as the AC still > cools enough at idle in town then the larger > one is good enough. If they are both supposed > to be for your car I would go for the larger > one due to where you are. > > How did you find the two different valves? > > MG > > > Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: > > What's the difference between an expansion valve that is Tonnage = 2.0 > and > > Superheat = 5.5, vs expansion valve with Tonnage = 1.5 and Superheat = > 11? > > > > According to what I've read, MB did not require the expansion valve to be > > changed when converting from R12 to R134A because the pressure curves are > > "close enough". Does that make sense? > > - > > Max > > Charleston SC > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:03 AM Meade Dillon > wrote: > > > >> Expansion valve question: Anyone have an opinion on using an expansion > >> valve made for R134 vs valve made for R12? > >> > >> Reading up on Jim's collected wisdom, it would seem that expansion > valves > >> (aka TXV = thermostatic expansion valve) need to be matched to the > >> refrigerant. The propane / isobutane blend seems to work very well with > >> R12 expansion valves. Perhaps part of my issue is using an R134 > expansion > >> valve? > >> - > >> Max > >> Charleston SC > >> > >> > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
From what I remember reading one time the TXV comes right before the evaporator and limits the amount of freon going into the evaporator. The TXV has a diaphragm valve on the top of the body that remains in the ambient air under the dash. The rest of the body should be encased in a foam insulator (the last time I looked they were still available at MB) that keeps the body colder then ambient due to the flow of the cold freon (now mostly gas) back to the comp through the connection right below the diaphragm. The colder the body of the TXV gets in relation to the small temp sensing diaphragm on the top of it the less the pressure is in the bottom of the diaphragm and the more the diaphragm tries to open the valve to allow more freon through to keep the coils from freezing and also to keep a bit of liquid moving in there to transport the oil needed by the comp. As you loose freon the pressure on the suction side becomes less and less so the valve tries to compensate and open to let more freon through from the high side but there comes a time when there ain't no mo so it all cooling stops hopefully due to the low pressure switch which is there to protect the comp from self destruction. I have also been told that the valve is the same for the R12 and R134 because they are so close in pressure and due to the opening size adjustment available. That would to me also say that it will work just fine for the ES gases since they are supposed to have slightly lower pressures then R12 and that has been proven in my experience. As far as the difference in the valve capacity I would think that the 2 ton would flow more freon at max opening then the 1.5. The only thing I don't know is how that would impact the whole system. My guess is that would depend on the how much the valve is able to close. If they both close to the same minimum then there should be no problem but if the larger one can't close as small then the cooling at idle would probably be less. On the other end if the smaller valve can't open far enough then the pressures on the high side will tend to go up at high RPM and fuel mileage will suffer. Try to stick with the one meant for your car. MB has probably figured out the best one. Though they do say that in humid environments more capacity is better for cooling because the dehumidification takes a bit of the total capacity so maybe as long as the AC still cools enough at idle in town then the larger one is good enough. If they are both supposed to be for your car I would go for the larger one due to where you are. How did you find the two different valves? MG Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: What's the difference between an expansion valve that is Tonnage = 2.0 and Superheat = 5.5, vs expansion valve with Tonnage = 1.5 and Superheat = 11? According to what I've read, MB did not require the expansion valve to be changed when converting from R12 to R134A because the pressure curves are "close enough". Does that make sense? - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:03 AM Meade Dillon wrote: Expansion valve question: Anyone have an opinion on using an expansion valve made for R134 vs valve made for R12? Reading up on Jim's collected wisdom, it would seem that expansion valves (aka TXV = thermostatic expansion valve) need to be matched to the refrigerant. The propane / isobutane blend seems to work very well with R12 expansion valves. Perhaps part of my issue is using an R134 expansion valve? - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
What's the difference between an expansion valve that is Tonnage = 2.0 and Superheat = 5.5, vs expansion valve with Tonnage = 1.5 and Superheat = 11? According to what I've read, MB did not require the expansion valve to be changed when converting from R12 to R134A because the pressure curves are "close enough". Does that make sense? - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:03 AM Meade Dillon wrote: > Expansion valve question: Anyone have an opinion on using an expansion > valve made for R134 vs valve made for R12? > > Reading up on Jim's collected wisdom, it would seem that expansion valves > (aka TXV = thermostatic expansion valve) need to be matched to the > refrigerant. The propane / isobutane blend seems to work very well with > R12 expansion valves. Perhaps part of my issue is using an R134 expansion > valve? > - > Max > Charleston SC > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Yes I do have both 123 and 126 and they both have the monovalve but I was thinking of your car with the weird AC problem. Though I see that you have that blocked off so that isn't it. I didn't know they still made the regular ES. I just ordered a case of the industrial to have some on hand, just in case. Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Manfred - which car? I think you've got a 123 and a 126 in your fleet? Scott - Just ordered the "Industrial" ES12, they also offer "regular". I'm not sure what the difference is, their instructions say that the industrial version can be added directly into an evacuated system, while the regular is supposed to be added to a partially charged system. I'm not sure what this means, maybe someone here has an idea? - Max Charleston SC On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 1:58 PM MG via Mercedes wrote: Yes and it works quite well. 42 to 45 out of the center vents with outside temp at 92 going down the road. In town stop and go only about 50 to 60 with the radiator fan going all the time and seeing outside front bumper temps running up to 98 and sometimes above. MG Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: Does envirosafe make only one refrigerant for cars now? Just wondering in case I put the 300SD back in the rotation. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Expansion valve question: Anyone have an opinion on using an expansion valve made for R134 vs valve made for R12? Reading up on Jim's collected wisdom, it would seem that expansion valves (aka TXV = thermostatic expansion valve) need to be matched to the refrigerant. The propane / isobutane blend seems to work very well with R12 expansion valves. Perhaps part of my issue is using an R134 expansion valve? - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Unfortunately no insert / kit is made for the 124 cars, I think only 123 and 126 cars have kits? Way down on my"'round tuit" list is experimenting with backfitting a 123 or 126 monovalve to The White Whale, I think I've got a used 126 monovalve somewhere in my garage... - Max Charleston SC On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 9:30 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > The mono valve has a replaceable element (called a lifting magnet). When > 12v is applied to the coil it closes the valve to stop hot water flow to > the heater core. In normal heater operation, the HVAC switches 12v on and > off to regulate the temperature. In cooling mode the coil should get 12v > continuously to keep the valve closed. The insert has a rubber diaphragm > that can fail. Also, use of coolant leak stopper can mess up this insert. > Normally, only the element fails and it's not hard to replace but it may be > hard to find a new one. I think MBZ recently made a new batch, going for > about $50 each, as I recall. They were much cheaper back in the day. > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
White Whale monovalve hose has been clamped off during the AC season for several years in a row now. I haven't had time to address that, probably need to just buy a new monovalve and install that and move on. - Max Charleston SC On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:49 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > This is a definite possibility. Happened to my SD when mono valve > failed. Heater will always overwhelm AC. Someone put a manual valve in > the heater hose on my 300TD for that reason (always closed in summer). > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Craig, I don't think so, looking at this: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/refrigerants-d_902.html - Max Charleston SC On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 3:57 PM Craig via Mercedes wrote: > > Isn't there an "R" number for the propane/isobutane mixture? > > http://www.diligentinstruments.com/di-517.html says, > --- > Built-in 89 kinds of refrigerant NIST:According to American NIST > standard > R11 R113 R114 R115 R116 R12 R123 R124 R125 R1270 R13 R134A R14 R141B > R142B R143A R152A R170 R21 R218 R22 R227EA R23 R236EA R245CA R245FA R290 > R32 R401A R401B R401C R402A R402B R403A R403B R404A R405A R406A R407A > R407B R407C R407D R407E R408A R409A R409B R41 R410A R410B R411A R411B > R412A R413A R414A R414B R415A R415B R416A R417A R418A R419A R420A R421A > R421B R422A R422B R422C R422D R423A R424A R425A R426A R427A R428A R50 > R500 R501 R502 R503 R504 R507A R508A R508B R509A R600 R600A R717 R744 > (Co2) R1234 > --- > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Scott - I've got a non-contact thermometer, I'll see what readings I can get for the list. Not sure when my next car work day will be, hopefully this weekend. - Max Charleston SC On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 2:12 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > Going back to the White Wale, I think temp measurements at both > refrigerant lines will be needed to know what's going on. Automotive > systems are complicated by the fact that the variable compressor speed and > variable air flow/temp across the condenser coil. Still, using the ES > pressure-temp data it should be possible to see if the refrigerant is > condensing to liquid, say at idle. > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Manfred - which car? I think you've got a 123 and a 126 in your fleet? Scott - Just ordered the "Industrial" ES12, they also offer "regular". I'm not sure what the difference is, their instructions say that the industrial version can be added directly into an evacuated system, while the regular is supposed to be added to a partially charged system. I'm not sure what this means, maybe someone here has an idea? - Max Charleston SC On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 1:58 PM MG via Mercedes wrote: > Yes and it works quite well. 42 to 45 out of > the center vents with outside temp at 92 > going down the road. In town stop and go only > about 50 to 60 with the radiator fan going > all the time and seeing outside front bumper > temps running up to 98 and sometimes above. > > MG > Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: > > Does envirosafe make only one refrigerant for cars now? Just wondering > in case I put the 300SD back in the rotation. > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
> > Isn't there an "R" number for the propane/isobutane mixture? Not for the mix, so far as I know. But propane is R290, and isobutane is R600A. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
The mono valve has a replaceable element (called a lifting magnet). When 12v is applied to the coil it closes the valve to stop hot water flow to the heater core. In normal heater operation, the HVAC switches 12v on and off to regulate the temperature. In cooling mode the coil should get 12v continuously to keep the valve closed. The insert has a rubber diaphragm that can fail. Also, use of coolant leak stopper can mess up this insert. Normally, only the element fails and it's not hard to replace but it may be hard to find a new one. I think MBZ recently made a new batch, going for about $50 each, as I recall. They were much cheaper back in the day. > -Original Message- > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of clay > monroe via Mercedes > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 8:43 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Cc: clay monroe > Subject: Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC > > Getting one of those dang monovalve things out is a PITA! I yanked one at PnP > the other day. Did they really need to make it so complex to access in a > w126? > > The SDL is having HVAC issues where it will blast very cold AC for many > minutes, then open a portal to HELL for a bit, before going back to cold AC. > Some folks had pointed me at the monovalve, so I figured I would get a spare > to see if that may solve the issue. > > How should I bench test this? Just apply 12v? > > clay monroe > redgh...@comcast.net > > > > > On Aug 28, 2018, at 4:51 PM, Craig via Mercedes > wrote: > > > > On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:48:21 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes > > wrote: > > > >> This is a definite possibility. Happened to my SD when mono valve > >> failed. Heater will always overwhelm AC. Someone put a manual valve > >> in the heater hose on my 300TD for that reason (always closed in > >> summer). > > > > So, clamping off the heater hose will be a quick test! (Max: Hint, > > hint!) > > > > > > Craig > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Thanks. Real R12 is too expensive and hard to get. I'll need to try the ES stuff with leak-stop when I get to reviving the AC. > -Original Message- > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of MG > via Mercedes > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 1:58 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Cc: MG > Subject: Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC > > Yes and it works quite well. 42 to 45 out of the center vents with outside > temp > at 92 going down the road. In town stop and go only about 50 to 60 with the > radiator fan going all the time and seeing outside front bumper temps running > up to 98 and sometimes above. > > MG > Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: > > Does envirosafe make only one refrigerant for cars now? Just wondering in > case I put the 300SD back in the rotation. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Getting one of those dang monovalve things out is a PITA! I yanked one at PnP the other day. Did they really need to make it so complex to access in a w126? The SDL is having HVAC issues where it will blast very cold AC for many minutes, then open a portal to HELL for a bit, before going back to cold AC. Some folks had pointed me at the monovalve, so I figured I would get a spare to see if that may solve the issue. How should I bench test this? Just apply 12v? clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net > On Aug 28, 2018, at 4:51 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:48:21 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes > wrote: > >> This is a definite possibility. Happened to my SD when mono valve >> failed. Heater will always overwhelm AC. Someone put a manual valve >> in the heater hose on my 300TD for that reason (always closed in >> summer). > > So, clamping off the heater hose will be a quick test! (Max: Hint, hint!) > > > Craig > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:48:21 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: > This is a definite possibility. Happened to my SD when mono valve > failed. Heater will always overwhelm AC. Someone put a manual valve > in the heater hose on my 300TD for that reason (always closed in > summer). So, clamping off the heater hose will be a quick test! (Max: Hint, hint!) Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
This is a definite possibility. Happened to my SD when mono valve failed. Heater will always overwhelm AC. Someone put a manual valve in the heater hose on my 300TD for that reason (always closed in summer). > -Original Message- > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of MG > via Mercedes > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 1:58 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Cc: MG > Subject: Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC > > does that have the same type of heater valve as the w123? If so could that be > bad? > > MG > > Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: > > Here's another weird data point that may be a clue. After sitting at > > idle for about 30 minutes I finally get my daughter in the car / > > buckled up and then back out onto surface streets so the engine speed > > can climb a bit to > > 2500 RPM or more, for the short accelerations between shift points. > > > > Vent temperatures have gradually climbed while sitting from about 60 > > to about 75 deg F, and once I get started moving (rise in engine RPM) > > the vent temp briefly drops down a bit and then climbs way up to 100 deg F > or so. > > Fan blower is on maximum speed setting the whole time, lots of air > > moving over the evaporator, and the electric cooling fan on the front > > of the condenser is doing its thing, cycling on and off as needed. > > > > Could this be explained by a refrigerant that is mostly propane now, > > or do I have some problem with the thermostatic expansion valve (TXV), or > ??? > > > > I'm pretty sure the TXV is not the original R-12 compatible TXV that > > came with the car, so maybe it is trying to regulate for R-134 > > referigerant which has a different pressure curve, and so it is > > flooding the evaporator with too much referigerant in liquid form (hot > > liquid form) which spikes the vent temperature. This might also > > explain why at lower engine speed (lower pressure on the high side of > > the compressor = lower pressure into the TXV) the vent temperatures > > are lower than at higher engine speed, as observed earlier. > > > > Whose got a NOS TXV for a 124? > > - > > Max > > Charleston SC > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 14:11:27 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: > Testo manifolds are good too. Fieldpiece has a nicer controls and > displays (IMO) but Testo units are more compact and some have Bluetooth > for remote temp sensors and smart phone interface. > > I need to check but I doubt these units have pressure-temp curves for > Envirosafe. Isn't there an "R" number for the propane/isobutane mixture? http://www.diligentinstruments.com/di-517.html says, --- Built-in 89 kinds of refrigerant NIST:According to American NIST standard R11 R113 R114 R115 R116 R12 R123 R124 R125 R1270 R13 R134A R14 R141B R142B R143A R152A R170 R21 R218 R22 R227EA R23 R236EA R245CA R245FA R290 R32 R401A R401B R401C R402A R402B R403A R403B R404A R405A R406A R407A R407B R407C R407D R407E R408A R409A R409B R41 R410A R410B R411A R411B R412A R413A R414A R414B R415A R415B R416A R417A R418A R419A R420A R421A R421B R422A R422B R422C R422D R423A R424A R425A R426A R427A R428A R50 R500 R501 R502 R503 R504 R507A R508A R508B R509A R600 R600A R717 R744 (Co2) R1234 --- Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:34:47 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: > > Can your compressor economically compress R410a to the higher > > pressures it requires? > > NO. That's why I'd need a new condenser unit, actually a heat > pump. Oh. When you said, > I need to replace the coil unit [you were talking about the evaporator coil] > and probably should replace the condenser to upgrade to R410a at > the same time; but that can wait for cooler weather. I thought you meant replace just the condenser (the freon-to-air heat exchanger) and not the whole outdoor unit. > > Please explain how this "digital manifold" works. > > > It's like a regular manifold (with round gauges) and three hose > connectors (high pressure, low pressure, and fill/vacuum pump) except > it uses pressure transducers and a digital display. Plus it has > temperature clamps for the refrigerant lines. Pressures and temps read > out directly as well as subcool and superheat assuming you tell it what > refrigerant is used. It also computes target superheat for > piston/aperture systems if you tell it the outside temp and inside wet > bulb temp. > > This is the one I got (but there are different models and makers): > https://www.fieldpiece.com/products/detail/sman360-3-port-digital-manifold-with-micron-gauge/vacuum/ Thank you. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Testo manifolds are good too. Fieldpiece has a nicer controls and displays (IMO) but Testo units are more compact and some have Bluetooth for remote temp sensors and smart phone interface. I need to check but I doubt these units have pressure-temp curves for Envirosafe. Going back to the White Wale, I think temp measurements at both refrigerant lines will be needed to know what's going on. Automotive systems are complicated by the fact that the variable compressor speed and variable air flow/temp across the condenser coil. Still, using the ES pressure-temp data it should be possible to see if the refrigerant is condensing to liquid, say at idle. > -Original Message- > From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 9:34 AM > > > I believe Fieldpiece is the industry standard for pros. > Anybody who really cares should probably be using a Fieldpiece 360 or 460 > for full time professional work. (I haven't seen one yet, but that's what I > think they SHOULD be using if they're going to charge me $100 to come out to > my house) > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
does that have the same type of heater valve as the w123? If so could that be bad? MG Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Here's another weird data point that may be a clue. After sitting at idle for about 30 minutes I finally get my daughter in the car / buckled up and then back out onto surface streets so the engine speed can climb a bit to 2500 RPM or more, for the short accelerations between shift points. Vent temperatures have gradually climbed while sitting from about 60 to about 75 deg F, and once I get started moving (rise in engine RPM) the vent temp briefly drops down a bit and then climbs way up to 100 deg F or so. Fan blower is on maximum speed setting the whole time, lots of air moving over the evaporator, and the electric cooling fan on the front of the condenser is doing its thing, cycling on and off as needed. Could this be explained by a refrigerant that is mostly propane now, or do I have some problem with the thermostatic expansion valve (TXV), or ??? I'm pretty sure the TXV is not the original R-12 compatible TXV that came with the car, so maybe it is trying to regulate for R-134 referigerant which has a different pressure curve, and so it is flooding the evaporator with too much referigerant in liquid form (hot liquid form) which spikes the vent temperature. This might also explain why at lower engine speed (lower pressure on the high side of the compressor = lower pressure into the TXV) the vent temperatures are lower than at higher engine speed, as observed earlier. Whose got a NOS TXV for a 124? - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Yes and it works quite well. 42 to 45 out of the center vents with outside temp at 92 going down the road. In town stop and go only about 50 to 60 with the radiator fan going all the time and seeing outside front bumper temps running up to 98 and sometimes above. MG Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: Does envirosafe make only one refrigerant for cars now? Just wondering in case I put the 300SD back in the rotation. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
I believe Fieldpiece is the industry standard for pros. Anybody who really cares should probably be using a Fieldpiece 360 or 460 for full time professional work. (I haven't seen one yet, but that's what I think they SHOULD be using if they're going to charge me $100 to come out to my house) For a homeowner to use once every year or two, I'm too cheap for that. I'd look to buy something that would pay for itself with the labor saved from one service call, like maybe this: https://www.amazon.com/DLG-Digital-Manifold-Refrigeration-System/dp/B07D7JJBJ3 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Here's another weird data point that may be a clue. After sitting at idle for about 30 minutes I finally get my daughter in the car / buckled up and then back out onto surface streets so the engine speed can climb a bit to 2500 RPM or more, for the short accelerations between shift points. Vent temperatures have gradually climbed while sitting from about 60 to about 75 deg F, and once I get started moving (rise in engine RPM) the vent temp briefly drops down a bit and then climbs way up to 100 deg F or so. Fan blower is on maximum speed setting the whole time, lots of air moving over the evaporator, and the electric cooling fan on the front of the condenser is doing its thing, cycling on and off as needed. Could this be explained by a refrigerant that is mostly propane now, or do I have some problem with the thermostatic expansion valve (TXV), or ??? I'm pretty sure the TXV is not the original R-12 compatible TXV that came with the car, so maybe it is trying to regulate for R-134 referigerant which has a different pressure curve, and so it is flooding the evaporator with too much referigerant in liquid form (hot liquid form) which spikes the vent temperature. This might also explain why at lower engine speed (lower pressure on the high side of the compressor = lower pressure into the TXV) the vent temperatures are lower than at higher engine speed, as observed earlier. Whose got a NOS TXV for a 124? - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
> Can your compressor economically compress R410a to the higher pressures it > requires? NO. That's why I'd need a new condenser unit, actually a heat pump. > > > Please explain how this "digital manifold" works. > It's like a regular manifold (with round gauges) and three hose connectors (high pressure, low pressure, and fill/vacuum pump) except it uses pressure transducers and a digital display. Plus it has temperature clamps for the refrigerant lines. Pressures and temps read out directly as well as subcool and superheat assuming you tell it what refrigerant is used. It also computes target superheat for piston/aperture systems if you tell it the outside temp and inside wet bulb temp. This is the one I got (but there are different models and makers): https://www.fieldpiece.com/products/detail/sman360-3-port-digital-manifold-with-micron-gauge/vacuum/ > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:06:56 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: > I need to replace the coil unit and probably should replace the > condenser to upgrade to R410a at the same time; but that can wait for > cooler weather. Can your compressor economically compress R410a to the higher pressures it requires? > By the way, I recently bought a Fieldpiece HVAC digital manifold to > check my home system. Not cheap but neither are HVAC service calls. > My system has a TXV so I can measure the subcool to be sure I'm not > losing charge, at least in cooling mode. Please explain how this "digital manifold" works. Thanks, Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Does envirosafe make only one refrigerant for cars now? Just wondering in case I put the 300SD back in the rotation. By the way, my home heat pump (13 year old R22 unit) developed a leak in the evaporator coil. I added a can of envirosafe leak stop last winter, which didn't help much. So I added another can this summer, which has done the trick, at least for now. The leak stop stuff is water activated so maybe it needs wet coils (i.e. cooling mode) to work. Or maybe it's just the lower pressure (of cooling mode) that slowed/stopped the leak. I need to replace the coil unit and probably should replace the condenser to upgrade to R410a at the same time; but that can wait for cooler weather. By the way, I recently bought a Fieldpiece HVAC digital manifold to check my home system. Not cheap but neither are HVAC service calls. My system has a TXV so I can measure the subcool to be sure I'm not losing charge, at least in cooling mode. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
I think you're correct, my mixture is off. I'll order some EnviroSafe and start from scratch. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On August 26, 2018 7:02:42 AM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote: >To me, low pressures on both sides feel like low charge. >But knowing it's ES12 in a leaky system, my first thought would be that >the propane is mostly gone and you're trying to cool the car on >isobutane. >You might read some Cathyisms and slowly add propane until the vent >temps drop and the low side pressure goes up. >http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/cwair.html >http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/efair.html >Mitch. > >___ >http://www.okiebenz.com > >To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Thanks Manfred! -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On August 26, 2018 2:09:54 PM EDT, MG via Mercedes wrote: >Try this one for the Envirosafe pressures >https://www.es-refrigerants.com/docs/12188_608.pdf > >Also attached if it comes through. > >MG > >Craig via Mercedes wrote: >> On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:58:36 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >>> After action report. >>> >>> Something weird going on, the vent temperature air is colder when >the >>> engine is at idle than when the engine speed is elevated to 2000 >rpm. >>> Is this an indication of a bad expansion valve, or have I >over-charged >>> the system? >> >> You are correct, something weird is going on. Of the two choices >given, I >> would pick overcharged, but that's just a wild guess. >> >> >>> When I started, the vent temperature was only about 66 deg F, and >>> pressures were 16 bar on the high side and 1 bar on the low side >>> (ambient temperature ~85 deg F, 75% humidity). The only temperature >/ >>> pressure chart I have for this car is for R-12, and according to >that >>> the pressures should be closer to 22 bar and 3 bar, and vent >>> temperature more like 60 deg F or lower. >> >> IIRC, you have neither R-12 nor R-134 in your system. I have attached >> some charts, but they may not have the information you need. >> >> >>> Leak indicated in the evaporator, my cheapo-chinee sniffer was just >>> detecting a leak at the lowest threshold in the air coming from the >>> vents >> >> Hm ... >> >> >>> I checked my stock of enviro-safe, and found only 1 full can and a >>> partial. If I had two full cans, I would have considered venting >the >>> system, pulling a vacuum, and then filling with the ClipLight sealer >and >>> the full cans of envirosafe. Given my limited supply, I decided >that >>> I'd add the rest of my partial can, and then order some more >hydrocarbon >>> refrigerant and try a fill using the ClipLight sealer. >> >> What is enviro-safe? Given your limited supply, that is a good plan. >> >> >>> Added the partial can, and then with the engine speed up around 2k >rpm >>> the pressures were much better, 21 / 3 bar for hi / low. However, >vent >>> temperature behavior is weird. I'm getting colder temps at idle >than >>> at 2k rpm, 58 deg F at idle and about 66-70 deg F at elevated rpm. >> >> Yup, that's weird. I would expect vent temps below 40 deg.F. >> >> >>> Also: No debris between condenser / radiator, and the electric >cooling >>> fan low speed and high speed functions work fine. >> >> That would have been an easy fix ... >> >> Would you like me to send you all of my A/C stuff offlist? It's 94 >MB, >> but I can easily send it in two batches. >> >> >> Craig >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Thanks Mitch! -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On August 26, 2018 7:02:42 AM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote: >To me, low pressures on both sides feel like low charge. >But knowing it's ES12 in a leaky system, my first thought would be that >the propane is mostly gone and you're trying to cool the car on >isobutane. >You might read some Cathyisms and slowly add propane until the vent >temps drop and the low side pressure goes up. >http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/cwair.html >http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/efair.html >Mitch. > >___ >http://www.okiebenz.com > >To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Thanks Craig! -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On August 26, 2018 12:26:21 AM EDT, Craig via Mercedes wrote: >On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:58:36 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes > wrote: > >> After action report. >> >> Something weird going on, the vent temperature air is colder when the >> engine is at idle than when the engine speed is elevated to 2000 rpm. >> Is this an indication of a bad expansion valve, or have I >over-charged >> the system? > >You are correct, something weird is going on. Of the two choices given, >I >would pick overcharged, but that's just a wild guess. > > >> When I started, the vent temperature was only about 66 deg F, and >> pressures were 16 bar on the high side and 1 bar on the low side >> (ambient temperature ~85 deg F, 75% humidity). The only temperature >/ >> pressure chart I have for this car is for R-12, and according to that >> the pressures should be closer to 22 bar and 3 bar, and vent >> temperature more like 60 deg F or lower. > >IIRC, you have neither R-12 nor R-134 in your system. I have attached >some charts, but they may not have the information you need. > > >> Leak indicated in the evaporator, my cheapo-chinee sniffer was just >> detecting a leak at the lowest threshold in the air coming from the >> vents > >Hm ... > > >> I checked my stock of enviro-safe, and found only 1 full can and a >> partial. If I had two full cans, I would have considered venting the >> system, pulling a vacuum, and then filling with the ClipLight sealer >and >> the full cans of envirosafe. Given my limited supply, I decided that >> I'd add the rest of my partial can, and then order some more >hydrocarbon >> refrigerant and try a fill using the ClipLight sealer. > >What is enviro-safe? Given your limited supply, that is a good plan. > > >> Added the partial can, and then with the engine speed up around 2k >rpm >> the pressures were much better, 21 / 3 bar for hi / low. However, >vent >> temperature behavior is weird. I'm getting colder temps at idle than >> at 2k rpm, 58 deg F at idle and about 66-70 deg F at elevated rpm. > >Yup, that's weird. I would expect vent temps below 40 deg.F. > > >> Also: No debris between condenser / radiator, and the electric >cooling >> fan low speed and high speed functions work fine. > >That would have been an easy fix ... > >Would you like me to send you all of my A/C stuff offlist? It's 94 MB, >but I can easily send it in two batches. > > >Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
BTW I don't do bars. Drinks cost too much and then I have to worry about the cost of getting home. Much better to buy a bottle at the ABC and then drink at home. Watch TV listen to music, get a lap dance from the ol'lady. What's not to like. Craig via Mercedes wrote: On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:58:36 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: After action report. Something weird going on, the vent temperature air is colder when the engine is at idle than when the engine speed is elevated to 2000 rpm. Is this an indication of a bad expansion valve, or have I over-charged the system? You are correct, something weird is going on. Of the two choices given, I would pick overcharged, but that's just a wild guess. When I started, the vent temperature was only about 66 deg F, and pressures were 16 bar on the high side and 1 bar on the low side (ambient temperature ~85 deg F, 75% humidity). The only temperature / pressure chart I have for this car is for R-12, and according to that the pressures should be closer to 22 bar and 3 bar, and vent temperature more like 60 deg F or lower. IIRC, you have neither R-12 nor R-134 in your system. I have attached some charts, but they may not have the information you need. Leak indicated in the evaporator, my cheapo-chinee sniffer was just detecting a leak at the lowest threshold in the air coming from the vents Hm ... I checked my stock of enviro-safe, and found only 1 full can and a partial. If I had two full cans, I would have considered venting the system, pulling a vacuum, and then filling with the ClipLight sealer and the full cans of envirosafe. Given my limited supply, I decided that I'd add the rest of my partial can, and then order some more hydrocarbon refrigerant and try a fill using the ClipLight sealer. What is enviro-safe? Given your limited supply, that is a good plan. Added the partial can, and then with the engine speed up around 2k rpm the pressures were much better, 21 / 3 bar for hi / low. However, vent temperature behavior is weird. I'm getting colder temps at idle than at 2k rpm, 58 deg F at idle and about 66-70 deg F at elevated rpm. Yup, that's weird. I would expect vent temps below 40 deg.F. Also: No debris between condenser / radiator, and the electric cooling fan low speed and high speed functions work fine. That would have been an easy fix ... Would you like me to send you all of my A/C stuff offlist? It's 94 MB, but I can easily send it in two batches. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
To me, low pressures on both sides feel like low charge. But knowing it's ES12 in a leaky system, my first thought would be that the propane is mostly gone and you're trying to cool the car on isobutane. You might read some Cathyisms and slowly add propane until the vent temps drop and the low side pressure goes up. http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/cwair.html http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/efair.html Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
After action report. Something weird going on, the vent temperature air is colder when the engine is at idle than when the engine speed is elevated to 2000 rpm. Is this an indication of a bad expansion valve, or have I over-charged the system? When I started, the vent temperature was only about 66 deg F, and pressures were 16 bar on the high side and 1 bar on the low side (ambient temperature ~85 deg F, 75% humidity). The only temperature / pressure chart I have for this car is for R-12, and according to that the pressures should be closer to 22 bar and 3 bar, and vent temperature more like 60 deg F or lower. Leak indicated in the evaporator, my cheapo-chinee sniffer was just detecting a leak at the lowest threshold in the air coming from the vents I checked my stock of enviro-safe, and found only 1 full can and a partial. If I had two full cans, I would have considered venting the system, pulling a vacuum, and then filling with the ClipLight sealer and the full cans of envirosafe. Given my limited supply, I decided that I'd add the rest of my partial can, and then order some more hydrocarbon refrigerant and try a fill using the ClipLight sealer. Added the partial can, and then with the engine speed up around 2k rpm the pressures were much better, 21 / 3 bar for hi / low. However, vent temperature behavior is weird. I'm getting colder temps at idle than at 2k rpm, 58 deg F at idle and about 66-70 deg F at elevated rpm. Also: No debris between condenser / radiator, and the electric cooling fan low speed and high speed functions work fine. - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
I know that feeling well Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes > wrote: > > Great Idea Dan, I happen to have a can of that "on the shelf" > > Now let's see, I just saw that can of ClipLight sealer in the garage, maybe > in that pile over there, I'll bet I can find it I think > - > Max > Charleston SC > > > On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 11:32 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> Max, >> >> If you don’t find a leak of significance, I would highly recommend >> evacuating and recharging with a can of ClipLight sealer. Even if you >> don’t have leaks of significance, it will help to eliminate the losses >> through the hoses due to age. >> >> >> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002NYBC8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8=1 >> >> It’s cheap insurance and works like a champ. >> >> -D >> >>> On Aug 25, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> >>> Craig, >>> >>> You've pointed out a flaw (topping up won't keep the blend correct) but >> if >>> I've got a leak, the blend is already different from what I installed. >>> >>> I've got enough cans of the stuff, so I'll modify my plan to check for >>> leaks first, and then if the leak appears to be easy to get to and >>> something like an o-ring that I have on-hand, I'll fix the leak first, >>> vacuum down and recharge from zero. >>> >>> If the leak is not easy / expensive, I'll have to decide if I want to >> "top >>> up" or not. In that case, engine running / AC compressor turning will >> help >>> mix up the blend in the system, and then I'll have to try to get a whole >>> can added to the system. Short of an entire can, the blend will be off, >>> but maybe not so far off that it will affect the performance too much? >>> Fool's errand maybe? >>> - >>> Max >>> Charleston SC >>> >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Great Idea Dan, I happen to have a can of that "on the shelf" Now let's see, I just saw that can of ClipLight sealer in the garage, maybe in that pile over there, I'll bet I can find it I think - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 11:32 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Max, > > If you don’t find a leak of significance, I would highly recommend > evacuating and recharging with a can of ClipLight sealer. Even if you > don’t have leaks of significance, it will help to eliminate the losses > through the hoses due to age. > > > https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002NYBC8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8=1 > > It’s cheap insurance and works like a champ. > > -D > > > On Aug 25, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > Craig, > > > > You've pointed out a flaw (topping up won't keep the blend correct) but > if > > I've got a leak, the blend is already different from what I installed. > > > > I've got enough cans of the stuff, so I'll modify my plan to check for > > leaks first, and then if the leak appears to be easy to get to and > > something like an o-ring that I have on-hand, I'll fix the leak first, > > vacuum down and recharge from zero. > > > > If the leak is not easy / expensive, I'll have to decide if I want to > "top > > up" or not. In that case, engine running / AC compressor turning will > help > > mix up the blend in the system, and then I'll have to try to get a whole > > can added to the system. Short of an entire can, the blend will be off, > > but maybe not so far off that it will affect the performance too much? > > Fool's errand maybe? > > - > > Max > > Charleston SC > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Max, If you don’t find a leak of significance, I would highly recommend evacuating and recharging with a can of ClipLight sealer. Even if you don’t have leaks of significance, it will help to eliminate the losses through the hoses due to age. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002NYBC8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8=1 It’s cheap insurance and works like a champ. -D > On Aug 25, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes > wrote: > > Craig, > > You've pointed out a flaw (topping up won't keep the blend correct) but if > I've got a leak, the blend is already different from what I installed. > > I've got enough cans of the stuff, so I'll modify my plan to check for > leaks first, and then if the leak appears to be easy to get to and > something like an o-ring that I have on-hand, I'll fix the leak first, > vacuum down and recharge from zero. > > If the leak is not easy / expensive, I'll have to decide if I want to "top > up" or not. In that case, engine running / AC compressor turning will help > mix up the blend in the system, and then I'll have to try to get a whole > can added to the system. Short of an entire can, the blend will be off, > but maybe not so far off that it will affect the performance too much? > Fool's errand maybe? > - > Max > Charleston SC > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
Craig, You've pointed out a flaw (topping up won't keep the blend correct) but if I've got a leak, the blend is already different from what I installed. I've got enough cans of the stuff, so I'll modify my plan to check for leaks first, and then if the leak appears to be easy to get to and something like an o-ring that I have on-hand, I'll fix the leak first, vacuum down and recharge from zero. If the leak is not easy / expensive, I'll have to decide if I want to "top up" or not. In that case, engine running / AC compressor turning will help mix up the blend in the system, and then I'll have to try to get a whole can added to the system. Short of an entire can, the blend will be off, but maybe not so far off that it will affect the performance too much? Fool's errand maybe? - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 11:15 AM Craig via Mercedes wrote: > On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 11:06:57 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes > wrote: > > > Here's my plan, if anyone can think of something else clever and > > inexpensive, or at least possible this weekend, let me know. > > > > Check the refrigerant pressures, and if the hydrocarbon blend > > (enviro-safe I think) is low, top it up and check for leaks. > > Will topping up keep the composition of the blend? > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 11:06:57 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: > Here's my plan, if anyone can think of something else clever and > inexpensive, or at least possible this weekend, let me know. > > Check the refrigerant pressures, and if the hydrocarbon blend > (enviro-safe I think) is low, top it up and check for leaks. Will topping up keep the composition of the blend? > Check the function of the electric cooling fan. Maybe add a switch so I > can activate the fan manually? A manual switch might be a good idea. The '90 E300D/2.5 Turbo I owned had a bad A/C pressure switch so the cooling fans would not come on. Jumpering the leads made it run all the time, which was helpful. > Check / clean between radiator and condenser. Yes! > Check / clean front of the evaporator (under the blower fan, which is > under the mono-wiper motor, which is under all that plastic under the > windshield - fun!?). Is there not some grille that will keep leaves and other detritus out of the evaporator? > Part of the reason for poor performance of the HVAC is the vacuum pod > for the center vents has failed, so no AC air ever comes from the center > vents. I suspect that R of the dash to fix that vacuum pod and > replace all the other pods will be my job NEXT weekend Try the other things first ... Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
