Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[filip de volder]

indeed , and having "printed in belgium" doesn't mean  it's an original vintage 
belgian poster but means that it's a reproduction of an original belgian poster 




From: MoPo List <mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU> on behalf of Helmut Hamm 
<texasmu...@web.de>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 12:42 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

Dan does have a point here, the matter is not always that simple, and it 
actually can be quite tricky at times.

Here's a perfect example, the British Onesheet for IPCRESS FILE:

https://posteritati.com/poster/14591/the-ipcress-file-1965-british-one-sheet-poster
[https://posteritati.com/posters/000/000/006/592/the-ipcress-file-md-web.jpg]<https://posteritati.com/poster/14591/the-ipcress-file-1965-british-one-sheet-poster>

The Ipcress File 1965 British One Sheet Poster | Posteritati Movie Poster 
Gallery | New 
York<https://posteritati.com/poster/14591/the-ipcress-file-1965-british-one-sheet-poster>
posteritati.com
The Ipcress File 1965 British One Sheet Poster at Posteritati.com



This poster is for a British film. It was commissioned by the British 
producers, printed in Italy, and used exclusively outside of the UK.

Still, there has never been any issue over the fact that this IS a British 
Onesheet. Simple as that.

Also, if one has the necessary experience, for at least 99.5% of vintage movie 
posters out there it is perfectly possible to determine the country of origin. 
There are exceptions, but they are extremely rare.

Helmut

www.filmposter.net<http://www.filmposter.net>


Am 24.08.2016 um 06:26 schrieb Daniel Kinske 
<colorfulcomedi...@me.com<mailto:colorfulcomedi...@me.com>>:

Yawn...

On Aug 23, 2016, at 20:34, Principal Archivist 
<archiv...@swanarchives.org<mailto:archiv...@swanarchives.org>> wrote:

Well, having been likened (by Dan) to a phallus, now I feel compelled, after a 
long absence from this list, to return to defend myself.

Dan (in particular)- to be clear, I was not the seller (nor the buyer) here; 
Filip was selling the poster, and had listed an International one-sheet as a US 
one-sheet.  I had started this conversation off with him by suggesting that 
describing the poster as a US one-sheet was inappropriate.  While I would 
probably have listed it as Canadian, "International" would have been another 
(even better and more accurate) option.  Regardless, I do stand by the view 
that it's inappropriate to list an International one-sheet as a US one-sheet, 
without some indication that it is not SIMPLY a US one-sheet.  "International 
style," "intended for foreign markets," "intended for Canada," or whatever.. 
but SOMEthing to indicate that it wasn't the vanilla US one-sheet.

What was referred to, later in my conversation with Filip, as "nonsense" was 
NOT his assertion that the poster was a US one-sheet, but rather the broader 
assertion that a poster made in the USA, even for a non-US market, would always 
be referred to, without qualification, as a US poster:  "the poster was made in 
the usa, therefor is a US poster."

To Philip's point, that ratings boxes sometimes don't appear on US posters 
because, e.g., it's an advance poster, I would say that if a seller is selling 
an advance poster, they would normally say so, wouldn’t they?  Don't collectors 
typically want to know if they're buying an advance, as opposed to an 
international, as opposed to a dead-standard version?

It's just not that simple, as the back and forth in this thread amply 
demonstrates.   I may have been a bit brusque in using the word "nonsense," for 
which I publicly apologize to Filip, but I was put off by the "if it's made in 
america, it's a US poster, simple as that" oversimplification of the issue.   
At the same time, having read through this thread, I recognize that my own take 
on it  - that a poster is classified by the geography where it is intended to 
be displayed – is also not always right.

And, sure, often it IS possible to tell where posters were manufactured - they 
may display union stamps,  "Printed in Belgium" and the like, but just as often 
it is not; and  I think it's a dangerous precedent to suggest that where a 
poster is printed is how it should be described - without exception and without 
qualification - for collectors' purposes, since it's only a matter of time 
before American studios and distributors start exporting production of some 
portion of posters destined for use in the US to China or elsewhere.  Are we 
going to refer to those posters as Chinese?

We have some real experts on this thread, and a divergence of opinion; Tommy 
agrees with me that international one sheets are not referred to as (simply) 
"US," while Helmut takes the view that anything printed in the US is a US 
poster; a

Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[allen day]

I dunno ...

I've always liked 1sh, meself

ad

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:34 PM, Principal Archivist <
archiv...@swanarchives.org> wrote:

> Well, having been likened (by Dan) to a phallus, now I feel compelled,
> after a long absence from this list, to return to defend myself.
>
>
>
> Dan (in particular)- to be clear, I was not the seller (nor the buyer)
> here; Filip was selling the poster, and had listed an International
> one-sheet as a US one-sheet.  I had started this conversation off with him
> by suggesting that describing the poster as a US one-sheet was
> inappropriate.  While I would probably have listed it as Canadian,
> "International" would have been another (even better and more accurate)
> option.  Regardless, I do stand by the view that it's inappropriate to list
> an International one-sheet as a US one-sheet, without some indication that
> it is not SIMPLY a US one-sheet.  "International style," "intended for
> foreign markets," "intended for Canada," or whatever.. but SOMEthing to
> indicate that it wasn't the vanilla US one-sheet.
>
>
>
> What was referred to, later in my conversation with Filip, as "nonsense"
> was NOT his assertion that the poster was a US one-sheet, but rather the
> broader assertion that a poster made in the USA, even for a non-US market,
> would always be referred to, without qualification, as a US poster:  "the
> poster was made in the usa, therefor is a US poster."
>
>
>
> To Philip's point, that ratings boxes sometimes don't appear on US posters
> because, e.g., it's an advance poster, I would say that if a seller is
> selling an advance poster, they would normally say so, wouldn’t they?
> Don't collectors typically want to know if they're buying an advance, as
> opposed to an international, as opposed to a dead-standard version?
>
>
>
> It's just not that simple, as the back and forth in this thread amply
> demonstrates.   I may have been a bit brusque in using the word "nonsense,"
> for which I publicly apologize to Filip, but I was put off by the "if it's
> made in america, it's a US poster, simple as that" oversimplification of
> the issue.   At the same time, having read through this thread, I recognize
> that my own take on it  - that a poster is classified by the geography
> where it is intended to be displayed – is also not always right.
>
>
>
> And, sure, often it IS possible to tell where posters were manufactured -
> they may display union stamps,  "Printed in Belgium" and the like, but just
> as often it is not; and  I think it's a dangerous precedent to suggest that
> where a poster is printed is how it should be described - without exception
> and without qualification - for collectors' purposes, since it's only a
> matter of time before American studios and distributors start exporting
> production of some portion of posters destined for use in the US to China
> or elsewhere.  Are we going to refer to those posters as Chinese?
>
>
>
> We have some real experts on this thread, and a divergence of opinion;
> Tommy agrees with me that international one sheets are not referred to as
> (simply) "US," while Helmut takes the view that anything printed in the US
> is a US poster; and Heritage is inconsistent.  So, sure, "nonsense" may
> have been overstating my case, but (1) I don't think that makes me a
> "phallus," and (2) I stand by the view that posters like these are best
> described as "International" -- or something -- rather than, or in addition
> to, "US."
>
>
>
> Maybe we could move on to whether "one-sheet" should be hyphenated or not.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link:
> https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L=1
>

 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[Tommy Barr]

Acting a bit like a phallus there, Dan.

On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 5:26 AM, Daniel Kinske 
wrote:

> Yawn...
>
> On Aug 23, 2016, at 20:34, Principal Archivist  > wrote:
>
> Well, having been likened (by Dan) to a phallus, now I feel compelled,
> after a long absence from this list, to return to defend myself.
>
>
>
> Dan (in particular)- to be clear, I was not the seller (nor the buyer)
> here; Filip was selling the poster, and had listed an International
> one-sheet as a US one-sheet.  I had started this conversation off with him
> by suggesting that describing the poster as a US one-sheet was
> inappropriate.  While I would probably have listed it as Canadian,
> "International" would have been another (even better and more accurate)
> option.  Regardless, I do stand by the view that it's inappropriate to list
> an International one-sheet as a US one-sheet, without some indication that
> it is not SIMPLY a US one-sheet.  "International style," "intended for
> foreign markets," "intended for Canada," or whatever.. but SOMEthing to
> indicate that it wasn't the vanilla US one-sheet.
>
>
>
> What was referred to, later in my conversation with Filip, as "nonsense"
> was NOT his assertion that the poster was a US one-sheet, but rather the
> broader assertion that a poster made in the USA, even for a non-US market,
> would always be referred to, without qualification, as a US poster:  "the
> poster was made in the usa, therefor is a US poster."
>
>
>
> To Philip's point, that ratings boxes sometimes don't appear on US posters
> because, e.g., it's an advance poster, I would say that if a seller is
> selling an advance poster, they would normally say so, wouldn’t they?
> Don't collectors typically want to know if they're buying an advance, as
> opposed to an international, as opposed to a dead-standard version?
>
>
>
> It's just not that simple, as the back and forth in this thread amply
> demonstrates.   I may have been a bit brusque in using the word "nonsense,"
> for which I publicly apologize to Filip, but I was put off by the "if it's
> made in america, it's a US poster, simple as that" oversimplification of
> the issue.   At the same time, having read through this thread, I recognize
> that my own take on it  - that a poster is classified by the geography
> where it is intended to be displayed – is also not always right.
>
>
>
> And, sure, often it IS possible to tell where posters were manufactured -
> they may display union stamps,  "Printed in Belgium" and the like, but just
> as often it is not; and  I think it's a dangerous precedent to suggest that
> where a poster is printed is how it should be described - without exception
> and without qualification - for collectors' purposes, since it's only a
> matter of time before American studios and distributors start exporting
> production of some portion of posters destined for use in the US to China
> or elsewhere.  Are we going to refer to those posters as Chinese?
>
>
>
> We have some real experts on this thread, and a divergence of opinion;
> Tommy agrees with me that international one sheets are not referred to as
> (simply) "US," while Helmut takes the view that anything printed in the US
> is a US poster; and Heritage is inconsistent.  So, sure, "nonsense" may
> have been overstating my case, but (1) I don't think that makes me a
> "phallus," and (2) I stand by the view that posters like these are best
> described as "International" -- or something -- rather than, or in addition
> to, "US."
>
>
>
> Maybe we could move on to whether "one-sheet" should be hyphenated or not.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link:
> https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L=1
>
>
> --
>
> To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link:
> https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L=1
>

 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[Daniel Kinske]

Yawn...

> On Aug 23, 2016, at 20:34, Principal Archivist  
> wrote:
> 
> Well, having been likened (by Dan) to a phallus, now I feel compelled, after 
> a long absence from this list, to return to defend myself.
>  
> Dan (in particular)- to be clear, I was not the seller (nor the buyer) here; 
> Filip was selling the poster, and had listed an International one-sheet as a 
> US one-sheet.  I had started this conversation off with him by suggesting 
> that describing the poster as a US one-sheet was inappropriate.  While I 
> would probably have listed it as Canadian, "International" would have been 
> another (even better and more accurate) option.  Regardless, I do stand by 
> the view that it's inappropriate to list an International one-sheet as a US 
> one-sheet, without some indication that it is not SIMPLY a US one-sheet.  
> "International style," "intended for foreign markets," "intended for Canada," 
> or whatever.. but SOMEthing to indicate that it wasn't the vanilla US 
> one-sheet.
>  
> What was referred to, later in my conversation with Filip, as "nonsense" was 
> NOT his assertion that the poster was a US one-sheet, but rather the broader 
> assertion that a poster made in the USA, even for a non-US market, would 
> always be referred to, without qualification, as a US poster:  "the poster 
> was made in the usa, therefor is a US poster."  
>  
> To Philip's point, that ratings boxes sometimes don't appear on US posters 
> because, e.g., it's an advance poster, I would say that if a seller is 
> selling an advance poster, they would normally say so, wouldn’t they?  Don't 
> collectors typically want to know if they're buying an advance, as opposed to 
> an international, as opposed to a dead-standard version?
>  
> It's just not that simple, as the back and forth in this thread amply 
> demonstrates.   I may have been a bit brusque in using the word "nonsense," 
> for which I publicly apologize to Filip, but I was put off by the "if it's 
> made in america, it's a US poster, simple as that" oversimplification of the 
> issue.   At the same time, having read through this thread, I recognize that 
> my own take on it  - that a poster is classified by the geography where it is 
> intended to be displayed – is also not always right.
>  
> And, sure, often it IS possible to tell where posters were manufactured - 
> they may display union stamps,  "Printed in Belgium" and the like, but just 
> as often it is not; and  I think it's a dangerous precedent to suggest that 
> where a poster is printed is how it should be described - without exception 
> and without qualification - for collectors' purposes, since it's only a 
> matter of time before American studios and distributors start exporting 
> production of some portion of posters destined for use in the US to China or 
> elsewhere.  Are we going to refer to those posters as Chinese?
>  
> We have some real experts on this thread, and a divergence of opinion; Tommy 
> agrees with me that international one sheets are not referred to as (simply) 
> "US," while Helmut takes the view that anything printed in the US is a US 
> poster; and Heritage is inconsistent.  So, sure, "nonsense" may have been 
> overstating my case, but (1) I don't think that makes me a "phallus," and (2) 
> I stand by the view that posters like these are best described as 
> "International" -- or something -- rather than, or in addition to, "US."
>  
> Maybe we could move on to whether "one-sheet" should be hyphenated or not.
>  
>  
> 
> To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link:
> https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L=1

 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
   ___
  How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List

   Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L

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Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[Phillip Ayling]

There is no real official authority for all of this, but there is a small
nuance to consider. The country in question is Canada and from an exhibition
and marketing standpoint US film producers consider Canada as part of the
United States Domestic market. That is how BO receipts and profit
participation is calculated (except for the Quebec/French speaking part of
the country). While International campaigns for a big Hollywood film may
roll out differently in other English speaking countries like Britain or
Australia, the publicity materials are almost always identical in the US and
Canada, even if the wide release dates are staggered (though they usually
aren't).  

 

Ratings for US films are done in the US by the MPAA (Motion Picture
Association of America). While the MPAA is rather well known, it is
generally not so well known that they are just the political lobbying arm of
the AMPTP (The Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers). This is
just a business practice/PR move that the studios put in place to do away
with local and regional censorship boards that once existed in many US
states and cities.

 

While ratings are almost always on a US poster, it is only a requirement if
you want MPAA certification.  The fact that a poster doesn't have a rating
box on it, doesn't mean that the poster was not intended for domestic US
consumption. It is very common for advance posters to be made without
ratings boxes (even if an MPAA ratings box will be desired for the release
version). Often times, release posters (with contractual credits and release
artwork) are prepared for premieres prior to a final MPAA rating but before
the printing of a large general release run of posters. 

 

Those posters often say something like "This film is not yet rated", however
that disclaimer is a more recent practice and is not to be found on all
advances. In times past there have certainly been plenty of posters made in
the US (with artwork identical to the eventual release poster) with no
ratings reference box at all. Most of those were (and are) sent to US
theatres for premieres, benefits and festivals. This advertises the film
with all of the appropriate star and director credits even before the final
cut/answer print is completed and available to be sent to the MPAA for
review. Those posters were definitely intended for domestic use and in many
cases they may be absolutely identical to posters identified as "the
international" version.   

 

From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of filip de
volder
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 12:10 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

 

Hi Daniel and all , the thing is that i've had quite a bit of "international
"US 1 sheets (and 3 sheets) and in general the blue rubberstamp on the back
sais so (sometimes it's printed on the front of the poster in a bottomcorner
too that it's "int'l" ) , this one doesn't   but sure a poster printed
in the usa that is being send out worldwide to say 30 different countries
makes it a US  poster , if say 30 were used in belgium those would become
belgian posters , 15 of the same poster used in switzerland would become
swiss posters ??? 

also the guy sais , and  who knows how he got that idea  " in most cases, it
is impossible to determine where a poster was manufactured. "









 

  _  

From: Daniel Edward Kinske <colorfulcomedi...@me.com
<mailto:colorfulcomedi...@me.com> >
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 6:15 PM
To: filip de volder
Cc: MoPo
Subject: Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ? 

 

Filip, 

 

It is a good question, but I would tend to lean towards your summation. I
think you can tell an overseas poster that was printed in the US by the
artwork being exact. There are some posters that essentially copy the US
artwork-I see that a lot with Hirschfeld's work, which I guess is a form of
flattery (and indolence.) 

 

I'll see an "A Day at the Races" one sheet with the exact stone-litho US art
and just the Spanish copy-it is usually the "Espana" posters, not something
from Mexico, as those posters definitely vary from the US ones-and some
variations are interesting, like the adding of color to artwork, that wasn't
color before, etc.

 

The "Phantom of the Paradise" is a cult-classic, so not surprised there are
"experts" on the posters, but it is a strange beast as you have commercial
posters that are odd sizes like 33x33" (see filmartgallery seller on eBay)
and there is a one-sheet revised with new art released in 1975. It has the
"PG Guidance" on it-I guess it is a bit scary to see a guy dressed like a
bird on a mixing board climbing and crowing. 

 

As a seller, the bird seller Swan could be a little more polite-especially
to a customer. It isn't "nonsense" as their are validities to both
statements and a difference in codific

Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[Daniel Edward Kinske]

Filip,

That is cool, I’ve seen censor stamps, but haven’t noticed the blue 
rubber-stamps (did they stamp Chaplin films? Would that be an international 
Tramp Stamp?)

A recent example I can think of (relatively recent) is when “Star Wars: The 
Phantom Menace” (Lucasfilm, 1999) was released the regular one sheet poster art 
(by Drew Struzan) was per contract the only art George Lucas would let the 
international distributors use—only the copy could be changed to the foreign 
countries native language (s), so simultaneously you would see that art all 
over the world, an interesting tid-bit, that is also mentioned in the 2013 
documentary “Drew.”

-d…




On Aug 22, 2016, at 12:10 PM, filip de volder <runbuffy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Daniel and all , the thing is that i've had quite a bit of "international 
> "US 1 sheets (and 3 sheets) and in general the blue rubberstamp on the back 
> sais so (sometimes it's printed on the front of the poster in a bottomcorner 
> too that it's "int'l" ) , this one doesn't   but sure a poster printed in 
> the usa that is being send out worldwide to say 30 different countries makes 
> it a US  poster , if say 30 were used in belgium those would become  belgian 
> posters , 15 of the same poster used in switzerland would become swiss 
> posters ??? 
> also the guy sais , and  who knows how he got that idea  " in most cases, it 
> is impossible to determine where a poster was manufactured. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Daniel Edward Kinske <colorfulcomedi...@me.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 6:15 PM
> To: filip de volder
> Cc: MoPo
> Subject: Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?
>  
> Filip,
> 
> It is a good question, but I would tend to lean towards your summation. I 
> think you can tell an overseas poster that was printed in the US by the 
> artwork being exact. There are some posters that essentially copy the US 
> artwork—I see that a lot with Hirschfeld’s work, which I guess is a form of 
> flattery (and indolence.) 
> 
> I’ll see an “A Day at the Races” one sheet with the exact stone-litho US art 
> and just the Spanish copy—it is usually the “Espana” posters, not something 
> from Mexico, as those posters definitely vary from the US ones—and some 
> variations are interesting, like the adding of color to artwork, that wasn’t 
> color before, etc.
> 
> The “Phantom of the Paradise” is a cult-classic, so not surprised there are 
> “experts” on the posters, but it is a strange beast as you have commercial 
> posters that are odd sizes like 33x33” (see filmartgallery seller on eBay) 
> and there is a one-sheet revised with new art released in 1975. It has the 
> “PG Guidance” on it—I guess it is a bit scary to see a guy dressed like a 
> bird on a mixing board climbing and crowing. 
> 
> As a seller, the bird seller Swan could be a little more polite—especially to 
> a customer. It isn’t “nonsense” as their are validities to both statements 
> and a difference in codification shouldn’t elicit consternation. 
> 
> I’ve seen US artwork on Belgian posters as well. There is a great example of 
> a “What? No Beer!” Belgian poster (sold by eMovieposter) that has the same US 
> stone-litho art of Buster Keaton and Jimmy Durante that are one the US 
> three-sheet (Style “B”) and I’ve never seen the US three sheet, so sometimes 
> if you want the US art, you need to look globally. 
> 
> That is why I like to pursue Benito’s yellowish orange website as he has 
> examples of posters with US art that are US period, or examples of the 
> aforementioned posters. He has a three sheet to “The Wizard of Oz” (Style 
> “A”, not the elusive—but extant—Style “B”)
> 
> I would just take his “nonsense” advice, say thank you, and purchase 
> elsewhere—from one who doesn’t live in a ivory palace or act like a phallus.
> 
> -d…
>  
>> On Aug 22, 2016, at 8:27 AM, filip de volder <runbuffy...@hotmail.com 
>> <mailto:runbuffy...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> i  had this exchange on ebay with someone who really seems a bit of a 
>> posterexpert regarding a pantom of the paradise 1sheet i have up :
>> 
>> Hi - this is not a US 1-sheet. This one was for the Canadian market. The US 
>> 1-sheet would have the PG ("Parental Guidance") logo.
>> 
>> - swanarchives
>> 
>> 
>> hi, it is a US one sheet , please use the zoom function to see bottom 
>> details on the poster
>> filip
>> 
>> - runbuffy
>> 
>> I promise you, it is the Canadian version. National Screen Service 
>> distributed the posters to both the USA and Canada. The USA version has the 
>> PG logo in the lower left corner, like this one: 
>> https://www.swanarchive

Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[filip de volder]

Hi Daniel and all , the thing is that i've had quite a bit of "international 
"US 1 sheets (and 3 sheets) and in general the blue rubberstamp on the back 
sais so (sometimes it's printed on the front of the poster in a bottomcorner 
too that it's "int'l" ) , this one doesn't   but sure a poster printed in 
the usa that is being send out worldwide to say 30 different countries makes it 
a US  poster , if say 30 were used in belgium those would become  belgian 
posters , 15 of the same poster used in switzerland would become swiss posters 
???

also the guy sais , and  who knows how he got that idea  " in most cases, it is 
impossible to determine where a poster was manufactured. "





From: Daniel Edward Kinske <colorfulcomedi...@me.com>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 6:15 PM
To: filip de volder
Cc: MoPo
Subject: Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

Filip,

It is a good question, but I would tend to lean towards your summation. I think 
you can tell an overseas poster that was printed in the US by the artwork being 
exact. There are some posters that essentially copy the US artwork—I see that a 
lot with Hirschfeld’s work, which I guess is a form of flattery (and indolence.)

I’ll see an “A Day at the Races” one sheet with the exact stone-litho US art 
and just the Spanish copy—it is usually the “Espana” posters, not something 
from Mexico, as those posters definitely vary from the US ones—and some 
variations are interesting, like the adding of color to artwork, that wasn’t 
color before, etc.

The “Phantom of the Paradise” is a cult-classic, so not surprised there are 
“experts” on the posters, but it is a strange beast as you have commercial 
posters that are odd sizes like 33x33” (see filmartgallery seller on eBay) and 
there is a one-sheet revised with new art released in 1975. It has the “PG 
Guidance” on it—I guess it is a bit scary to see a guy dressed like a bird on a 
mixing board climbing and crowing.

As a seller, the bird seller Swan could be a little more polite—especially to a 
customer. It isn’t “nonsense” as their are validities to both statements and a 
difference in codification shouldn’t elicit consternation.

I’ve seen US artwork on Belgian posters as well. There is a great example of a 
“What? No Beer!” Belgian poster (sold by eMovieposter) that has the same US 
stone-litho art of Buster Keaton and Jimmy Durante that are one the US 
three-sheet (Style “B”) and I’ve never seen the US three sheet, so sometimes if 
you want the US art, you need to look globally.

That is why I like to pursue Benito’s yellowish orange website as he has 
examples of posters with US art that are US period, or examples of the 
aforementioned posters. He has a three sheet to “The Wizard of Oz” (Style “A”, 
not the elusive—but extant—Style “B”)

I would just take his “nonsense” advice, say thank you, and purchase 
elsewhere—from one who doesn’t live in a ivory palace or act like a phallus.

-d…

On Aug 22, 2016, at 8:27 AM, filip de volder 
<runbuffy...@hotmail.com<mailto:runbuffy...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

i  had this exchange on ebay with someone who really seems a bit of a 
posterexpert regarding a pantom of the paradise 1sheet i have up :

Hi - this is not a US 1-sheet. This one was for the Canadian market. The US 
1-sheet would have the PG ("Parental Guidance") logo.

- swanarchives


hi, it is a US one sheet , please use the zoom function to see bottom details 
on the poster
filip

- runbuffy


I promise you, it is the Canadian version. National Screen Service distributed 
the posters to both the USA and Canada. The USA version has the PG logo in the 
lower left corner, like this one: 
https://www.swanarchives.org/ImagePopup.asp?image=onesheetstylea_lrg.jpg The 
Canadian version does not.

- swanarchives


hi, the poster was made in the usa therefor is a US poster , before the 70s a 
lot of US 1 sheets were made for south america with the text in spanish , that 
doesn't make the posters colombian or venezuelan , they were american 1 sheets 
for the south american movie theaters so the phantom of the paradise is an 
american poster for the canadian theaters , the poster was not made in canada
thanks, filip

- runbuffy


No, that's just nonsense. Movie posters are always referred to by the geography 
where they are intended to be used, not where they were manufactured. This is 
because, in most cases, it is impossible to determine where a poster was 
manufactured. If the US studios started having some posters made in China for 
use in the USA, nobody would call these "Chinese movie posters." A poster with 
Danish language intended for use in Denmark would be called a "Danish movie 
poster," regardless where it was printed. Good luck with your auction, though.


- swanarchives



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https://listserv.american

Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[Helmut Hamm]

I'm sorry to say, but the below statement from swanarchives is utter nonsense. 
Movie posters are ALWAYS referred to the geography where they were PRINTED.

Traditionally, some countries produced their own posters and other advertising 
material, others did not. For the countries that did not print their own 
posters, the production company would either use the domestic material and send 
it along with the film prints, OR they would print international versions of 
the posters: Sometimes in english, sometimes in a foreign language. 

Printed in USA posters for the international market were predominantly english 
and spanish. Japanese export posters were in english. Heck, I have even seen 
east-german export posters in english. 

Here's an example, a japanese poster for GOKE, printed in Japan for 
international use:

http://www.filmposter.net/en/goke-body-snatcher-from-hell-original-release-japanese-export-movie-poster/
 


It was printed in Japan, so it's a japanese poster, period. These were used in 
the US, but that does not make this a US poster.

Canada always imported at least 99% of their movie posters, so the chance that 
the PHANTOM OF PARADISE was indeed printed in Canada is about 1%. I'll say this 
is a US International poster. 

Helmut

www.filmposter.net


> Am 22.08.2016 um 17:27 schrieb filip de volder :
> 
> No, that's just nonsense. Movie posters are always referred to by the 
> geography where they are intended to be used, not where they were 
> manufactured. This is because, in most cases, it is impossible to determine 
> where a poster was manufactured. If the US studios started having some 
> posters made in China for use in the USA, nobody would call these "Chinese 
> movie posters." 


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Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[Tommy Barr]

Just as a matter of interest I checked to see how HA and Bruce listed this,
and it appears that sometimes it is described as 'international' and
sometimes not, so seems nobody is quite sure what to call it.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:51 PM, Tommy Barr  wrote:

> Sorry, Filip, but I think Swanarchives is making a valid point.
> International one sheets, although mostly all printed in USA, are referred
> to as 'international', not 'U.S.'. The intended location for the display of
> a poster must surely be a prime consideration, regardless of where it was
> printed.
>
> Tommy
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:27 PM, filip de volder 
> wrote:
>
>> i  had this exchange on ebay with someone who really seems a bit of a
>> posterexpert regarding a pantom of the paradise 1sheet i have up :
>>
>>
>> Hi - this is not a US 1-sheet. This one was for the Canadian market. The
>> US 1-sheet would have the PG ("Parental Guidance") logo.
>>
>> - swanarchives
>>
>>
>> hi, it is a US one sheet , please use the zoom function to see bottom
>> details on the poster
>> filip
>>
>> - runbuffy
>>
>> I promise you, it is the Canadian version. National Screen Service
>> distributed the posters to both the USA and Canada. The USA version has the
>> PG logo in the lower left corner, like this one:
>> https://www.swanarchives.org/ImagePopup.asp?image=onesheetstylea_lrg.jpg
>> The Canadian version does not.
>>
>> - swanarchives
>>
>> hi, the poster was made in the usa therefor is a US poster , before the
>> 70s a lot of US 1 sheets were made for south america with the text in
>> spanish , that doesn't make the posters colombian or venezuelan , they were
>> american 1 sheets for the south american movie theaters so the phantom of
>> the paradise is an american poster for the canadian theaters , the poster
>> was not made in canada
>> thanks, filip
>>
>> - runbuffy
>>
>> No, that's just nonsense. Movie posters are always referred to by the
>> geography where they are intended to be used, not where they were
>> manufactured. This is because, in most cases, it is impossible to determine
>> where a poster was manufactured. If the US studios started having some
>> posters made in China for use in the USA, nobody would call these "Chinese
>> movie posters." A poster with Danish language intended for use in Denmark
>> would be called a "Danish movie poster," regardless where it was printed.
>> Good luck with your auction, though.
>>
>>
>> - swanarchives
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link:
>> https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L=1
>>
>
>

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Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[Daniel Edward Kinske]

Filip,

It is a good question, but I would tend to lean towards your summation. I think 
you can tell an overseas poster that was printed in the US by the artwork being 
exact. There are some posters that essentially copy the US artwork—I see that a 
lot with Hirschfeld’s work, which I guess is a form of flattery (and 
indolence.) 

I’ll see an “A Day at the Races” one sheet with the exact stone-litho US art 
and just the Spanish copy—it is usually the “Espana” posters, not something 
from Mexico, as those posters definitely vary from the US ones—and some 
variations are interesting, like the adding of color to artwork, that wasn’t 
color before, etc.

The “Phantom of the Paradise” is a cult-classic, so not surprised there are 
“experts” on the posters, but it is a strange beast as you have commercial 
posters that are odd sizes like 33x33” (see filmartgallery seller on eBay) and 
there is a one-sheet revised with new art released in 1975. It has the “PG 
Guidance” on it—I guess it is a bit scary to see a guy dressed like a bird on a 
mixing board climbing and crowing. 

As a seller, the bird seller Swan could be a little more polite—especially to a 
customer. It isn’t “nonsense” as their are validities to both statements and a 
difference in codification shouldn’t elicit consternation. 

I’ve seen US artwork on Belgian posters as well. There is a great example of a 
“What? No Beer!” Belgian poster (sold by eMovieposter) that has the same US 
stone-litho art of Buster Keaton and Jimmy Durante that are one the US 
three-sheet (Style “B”) and I’ve never seen the US three sheet, so sometimes if 
you want the US art, you need to look globally. 

That is why I like to pursue Benito’s yellowish orange website as he has 
examples of posters with US art that are US period, or examples of the 
aforementioned posters. He has a three sheet to “The Wizard of Oz” (Style “A”, 
not the elusive—but extant—Style “B”)

I would just take his “nonsense” advice, say thank you, and purchase 
elsewhere—from one who doesn’t live in a ivory palace or act like a phallus.

-d…
 
> On Aug 22, 2016, at 8:27 AM, filip de volder  wrote:
> 
> i  had this exchange on ebay with someone who really seems a bit of a 
> posterexpert regarding a pantom of the paradise 1sheet i have up :
> 
> Hi - this is not a US 1-sheet. This one was for the Canadian market. The US 
> 1-sheet would have the PG ("Parental Guidance") logo.
> 
> - swanarchives
> 
> 
> hi, it is a US one sheet , please use the zoom function to see bottom details 
> on the poster
> filip
> 
> - runbuffy
> 
> I promise you, it is the Canadian version. National Screen Service 
> distributed the posters to both the USA and Canada. The USA version has the 
> PG logo in the lower left corner, like this one: 
> https://www.swanarchives.org/ImagePopup.asp?image=onesheetstylea_lrg.jpg 
>  
> The Canadian version does not.
> 
> - swanarchives
> 
> hi, the poster was made in the usa therefor is a US poster , before the 70s a 
> lot of US 1 sheets were made for south america with the text in spanish , 
> that doesn't make the posters colombian or venezuelan , they were american 1 
> sheets for the south american movie theaters so the phantom of the paradise 
> is an american poster for the canadian theaters , the poster was not made in 
> canada 
> thanks, filip
> 
> - runbuffy
> 
> No, that's just nonsense. Movie posters are always referred to by the 
> geography where they are intended to be used, not where they were 
> manufactured. This is because, in most cases, it is impossible to determine 
> where a poster was manufactured. If the US studios started having some 
> posters made in China for use in the USA, nobody would call these "Chinese 
> movie posters." A poster with Danish language intended for use in Denmark 
> would be called a "Danish movie poster," regardless where it was printed. 
> Good luck with your auction, though.
> 
> 
> - swanarchives
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link:
> https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L=1 
> 

 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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Re: [MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[Tommy Barr]

Sorry, Filip, but I think Swanarchives is making a valid point.
International one sheets, although mostly all printed in USA, are referred
to as 'international', not 'U.S.'. The intended location for the display of
a poster must surely be a prime consideration, regardless of where it was
printed.

Tommy

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:27 PM, filip de volder 
wrote:

> i  had this exchange on ebay with someone who really seems a bit of a
> posterexpert regarding a pantom of the paradise 1sheet i have up :
>
>
> Hi - this is not a US 1-sheet. This one was for the Canadian market. The
> US 1-sheet would have the PG ("Parental Guidance") logo.
>
> - swanarchives
>
>
> hi, it is a US one sheet , please use the zoom function to see bottom
> details on the poster
> filip
>
> - runbuffy
>
> I promise you, it is the Canadian version. National Screen Service
> distributed the posters to both the USA and Canada. The USA version has the
> PG logo in the lower left corner, like this one:
> https://www.swanarchives.org/ImagePopup.asp?image=onesheetstylea_lrg.jpg
> The Canadian version does not.
>
> - swanarchives
>
> hi, the poster was made in the usa therefor is a US poster , before the
> 70s a lot of US 1 sheets were made for south america with the text in
> spanish , that doesn't make the posters colombian or venezuelan , they were
> american 1 sheets for the south american movie theaters so the phantom of
> the paradise is an american poster for the canadian theaters , the poster
> was not made in canada
> thanks, filip
>
> - runbuffy
>
> No, that's just nonsense. Movie posters are always referred to by the
> geography where they are intended to be used, not where they were
> manufactured. This is because, in most cases, it is impossible to determine
> where a poster was manufactured. If the US studios started having some
> posters made in China for use in the USA, nobody would call these "Chinese
> movie posters." A poster with Danish language intended for use in Denmark
> would be called a "Danish movie poster," regardless where it was printed.
> Good luck with your auction, though.
>
>
> - swanarchives
>
>
> --
>
> To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link:
> https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L=1
>

 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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[MOPO] do i babble nonsense ?

[filip de volder]

i  had this exchange on ebay with someone who really seems a bit of a 
posterexpert regarding a pantom of the paradise 1sheet i have up :


Hi - this is not a US 1-sheet. This one was for the Canadian market. The US 
1-sheet would have the PG ("Parental Guidance") logo.


- swanarchives



hi, it is a US one sheet , please use the zoom function to see bottom details 
on the poster
filip


- runbuffy


I promise you, it is the Canadian version. National Screen Service distributed 
the posters to both the USA and Canada. The USA version has the PG logo in the 
lower left corner, like this one: 
https://www.swanarchives.org/ImagePopup.asp?image=onesheetstylea_lrg.jpg The 
Canadian version does not.


- swanarchives


hi, the poster was made in the usa therefor is a US poster , before the 70s a 
lot of US 1 sheets were made for south america with the text in spanish , that 
doesn't make the posters colombian or venezuelan , they were american 1 sheets 
for the south american movie theaters so the phantom of the paradise is an 
american poster for the canadian theaters , the poster was not made in canada
thanks, filip


- runbuffy


No, that's just nonsense. Movie posters are always referred to by the geography 
where they are intended to be used, not where they were manufactured. This is 
because, in most cases, it is impossible to determine where a poster was 
manufactured. If the US studios started having some posters made in China for 
use in the USA, nobody would call these "Chinese movie posters." A poster with 
Danish language intended for use in Denmark would be called a "Danish movie 
poster," regardless where it was printed. Good luck with your auction, though.



- swanarchives


 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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