RE: [Mpls] Thousands lose union jobs because of rising pension costs....
On 2 Oct 2003 at 2:03, Jim Bernstein wrote: So now pensions are "paying people for not working?? Yes. Basically you work now, and pay someone elses pension/Social Security who already retired. Workers after you pay your pension/Social Security when you retire. Though the amount you get is based on the amount of time and salary you got when you did work. The system is fine as long as there is a balance. But if more people retire than work, there is a big problem. Same goes for if the company goes under, or if politicians or business executives use the money for something other than peoples retirement. (See Enron or Social Security) Jim Writes; Given the belief by some (Republicans for the most part) that Social Security ought to be scrapped, I must ask: what is that you conservatives really want to do with people as they age? I do not believe that the systems necessarily need to be scrapped, but I do believe that the issues need to be dealt with. Personally I find it disturbing that I cant rely on Social Security when I get old, even though I pay in a lot now. Thats why people have 401Ks to try and cover themselves. However, accusing people who are willing to look at the issues of not caring, is a poor method to win a point. So my question still stands, If everyones property increased in value (a lot over the last 5 years) and therefore so did their taxes, how is it that Minneapolis collected less in 2002, and why did they need to borrow to pay for their pension plan? That money is going somewhere . Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield - This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Thousands lose union jobs because of rising pension costs....
It's an issue that needs to be looked at. We even have a lot of places to look at for the results. Europe being socialist, embodies many of these practices- and it's breaking the bank. Here's a easy comparison. The state of California, the WORLDS 6th larges economy is 3.5 billion in debt. Their governor is getting recalled for it. In Germany, the CITY of Berlin (not the country- the city) is somthing like 5.7 Billion in debt. Denmark goes even farther in the socialist utopia. It does not help crime (the rates are rising) debts are massive (think the US debt is high?) and there is no easy way out. See (you may need to cut and paste this link back togeather) http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?control=1274&month=58&title=Denmark:+A+Case+Study+in+Social+Democracy&id=59 As Vicky notes, Mpls property taxe revenue is decreasing, even though most of our rates are increasing- dramatically! Where is the money going? It's somthing that Mpls needs to straighten out. Because if it dosn't, Most people who can, will simply move to get lower tax rates, and Mpls's problems increase that much more. The effects are already happening. Many companies refuse to locate here because of it. With the houseing prices and tax rates, it's stating to become a real question if it's worth financially to live here when you run the numbers. That's true even for a regular Joe like me, who dosn't even have the expense of kids to deal with. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield - This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Are we too soft or too harsh on criminals?
On 28 Aug 2003 at 14:54, Jordan Kushner wrote: Perhaps the participants in the African American Men's Project sponsored events had to do a little less time. So what?! What is wrong with making life a little easier for a group that is much more harshly targetted by the criminal "justice" system? I agree that there is a racial disparity, but I disagree with the conclusion. I don't think the answer is lowering standards. We should be saying, why aren't whites being prosecuted at the same rate? Not how do we get black criminals off easy. I put the emphasis on the persons crime, not on the individual's skin tone. Note the importance of the idiividuals actions, not what group they came from. You can see pictures from the 60's with guys wearing a sign that said "I Am A Man" It did not say "I am a black man" or I am an African American, or European American or any other contorted blood line label. The difference is the emphasis. One is racial, the other is human. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield - This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: showers and bathrooms
On 15 Aug 2003 at 13:41, phaedrus wrote: When society has reached a point where there is no discrimination on gender or sexuality, there will be no need for separate restrooms (or showers). Frankly, I'd like to see that happen now. H Do you get to choose who you shower with? Or does just anyone get to come? That really could change your opinion on the subject. Or at least it would make dramatic changes on mine. Maybe you should watch the movie Starship Troopers sometime. It really is not very good, but it contains the dream. Co-ed showers. And as you watch the scene, ask yourself why was it in the movie? To make the political statement, or because they thought more young men would want to watch the movie? I know many people think sexuality is something that get programed into them by society, but I think it's more of a genetic thing. Despite what your professors taught you, it's not all an intellectual thing. That might help explain why if you do a search on sex and bathrooms on the internet, you get many graphic action filled volumes on the subject, which could explain the reason why many people wouldn't want co-ed bathrooms either. But that would in turn show that not all of human nature is a beautiful thing that needs to be "celebrated for it's diversity"- which is a troubling thought for many. But then again, as Ed said, as only an educated person can, "you should at some point come to the understanding that there is no such thing as truth." So maybe it doesn't matter. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Clearing up Heritage Park Misperceptions
10AM Sunday morning is the most segregated time in America. I think MLK said that. There is no conspiracies, no "government plan", no one to blame but ourselves. Who do you Choose and who are you Comfortable to be with...? As Annie wrote "East Phillips (where at least 70 nations are all mixed and matched together on every single block in our small section of the world)." It aint 1955 anymore! So why a segregated time at the park, other than people's personal Choice? Why would the Strib print a story about a black neighbourhood loosing it's blackness a few days ago? Because people on both sides of the fence are afraid of each other. It's no conspiracy. They already live next to each other, but many are still trying to figure out how to play with each other at the local park. Instead of looking in the mirror, it's far easier to blame the city...because that way one can denounce the behavior, but still manage to avoid dealing with any of it. It's all the city's fault. Yeah, right Tom Holtzleiter kingfield On 22 Jul 2003 at 22:56, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Dean Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Also in response to other comments, Heritage Park is in fact a mixed-income > community with persons paying market rate rents living literally next door > to public housing residents. There is no such thing as a section being set > aside for the "african-american community" to do so would be against > numerous federal and state fair housing laws. Thank you Dean. I do understand all the laws but I just find it interesting that journalists and activists alike have been talking with people there and it appears that there are no caucasians at the time and only Southeast Asians and African American families (at least in one particular section of the entire Park. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is that smell?
I think it's sewer gas. A kind of food processing :-) On high pressure days, the outside air flows into the relatively low pressure of the sewers, and you smell nothing. On low pressure days, the relatively high air pressure inside the sewers must now equalize, so it blows outusually in a low/easiest access point. I'm not sure about all manholes, but many low sewers (especially around the river) stink when there is a sudden drop in air pressure from a weather front. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] $10 million gift from North Oaks Hill Family Foundation
Ive decided to stay with this list, if nothing else for the entertainment value Weve argued Anti war resolutions is such a way that it gives credit to the Thought Police, and now people are asking for proof of hatred on this list towards the rich (and suburban/North Oaks/Republicans too?). Need I remind folks that last week there was a thread entitled The rich be damned as in, "your all going to Hell " Now that one of them is giving away a bunch of free money, its wheres the proof we hate them? We have always loved them... I must admit, I got a smile on my face today. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield - This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] $750,000 Appropriated for Coldwater Springs (Thank You Congressman Sabo!)
The 750,000 is for dealing with the Bureau of Mines campus that the Feds already own. Coldwater Spring just happens to be on the same site. Not all that money goes towards the Camp Coldwater area, though some will. Namely because the Feds are looking to get rid of the campus somehow, they need to get a detailed idea of what they are dealing with, and what can be done with it. When the airport was going to buy the land for $6 mill, it was easier for the Feds to legally wash their hands of the whole thing because the airport is a "state entity". Without another "State entity" with that kind of cash, it leaves the Feds responsible for everything. That's from maintenance, to security, to studying what to do with the place. For example it has already been rejected as a headquarters for the US Fish and Wildlife, as the buildings would cost too much to rehab. So it leaves them with a "what's next?" The area is a bit more sensitive as to what can be done because the Coldwater Spring is on the property and will need to be protected, by whoever gets the land. So it's not as wasteful or as pork ridden as you may think. But yes, some of it will directly benefit the area, as one of the options is to return it to park, a plan that was envisioned all the way back when they made the Minneapolis Park system in the first place (though it may end up if Fort Snelling State Park, if that option is followed, but somone will need (to pay) to remove the buildings first) On a side note, the Mendota Indians, who have been involved with the area, are not the ones who own a casino. If they did, they would probably buy the land outrightso no they may not be poverity stricken as somone posted, but they don't have the millions of dollars to assume the campus either. The tribes who DO own a casino, and have more money, don't seem to be all that interested. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Rybak's position on the war
Heres my problem with the city passing a resolution on national policy. Its a double vote of sorts. Everyone gets to vote on national issues, and everyone gets to vote on local issues. Then there are the ones who want to vote again, as a local entity, on national issues. I dont care if its war, steel imports, the national forests or whatever; its a national issue and belongs there. I applaud Mayor Rybak for being able to separate that; especially given the anti war resolution is an issue that he strongly supports. It speaks volumes about his credibility. To me, to use his position to pass a resolution on foreign policy is a borderline abuse of power. Not one city council rep represents me on ANY national issue. Period. I strongly resent them pretending like they do. I have to wonder how all these progressive deep democracy people dont see that. Somehow all that talk about proportional representation goes out the window once its an issue they support. Then its what can we do to make our voices count more? No way can I support that. I hope Rybak sticks to his pledge, because in my eyes, what he is doing is keeping the council honest. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield (Who is also anxiously awaiting the hate mail from people desperately trying to interpret my view on the war, which none of you know, because I didnt tell you.) - This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] 35W Access Project-Urban Legend
Urban legend? This is no legend, go to the library and look the facts up. 38th was always a main cross street-ever since it was built. It was always intended to have more traffic to support the commercial properties that have always been zoned there. Even as far back as the 1900's with the trolly lines. That's not a legend-it's a fact. It's why the comercial zoning is on that street. So why deprive the place of the traffic now? It is no legend, that when the traffic was removed, many businesses dried up. We have to deal with the traffic in the neighbourhood anyway, lets make some use of it! I don't see much good sending it though the residential area of 35th-36th street. What's with you and your groups constant slam on ANY aspect of this project? I understand Kingfield Associations opposition to the project-and I give them a great deal of respect for it. Know why? Because they are taking the aspects they don't like, and giving alternatives, giving ideas-things to make it better. They have done nothing but try and make it better for the last few years, and and keep communications up. I am very grateful to them for that. But all I see from you is a constant barrage of everything wrong with the world. So with all the aspects of the project I question (Flyover ramp taking out houses), I still can't ever see myself standing with STRIDE. Way to many accusations without fact, way to much negativity- with nothing positive to counter balance it. You think Lake and Nicollet is thriving? How many businesses have folded up there? I've lost count. Don't even get me started on the guy waiting for the bus the last three and half hours... But is Lake and Nicollet getting by? Yes. Thriving? I don't think so! 38th street? It's doing a bit better than Lake, definately. But it could use a boost. Generaly speaking, Salvation Army stores don't show up in thriving areas. (Don't get me wrong here, I'm a huge fan of the Salvation Army & I like the area-my house is a block away) But giving 38th the traffic it historically had so that the comercial zoning on the street has more of a chance to make the jump from getting by, to truely thriving, is a start. I admit, making sure the parking remains after construction, is a real concern. I can understand wanting to change something to make it better. I've done quite a bit of that myself. But to take the position of what we got is the best solution, so no build? And that IS what no build means-leave it just like it is. I won't do that. I believe we can do better than the interchange we got now. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield On 24 Nov 2002 at 15:48, ken avidor wrote: Tom Holtzleiter writes: "At 38th street I see the same thing without the big empty parking lot. Instead right around the area up and down the streets (Nicollet and 38th) are empty buildings, or often struggling businesses. " Avidor: This is the the same thing the Access Project Supporters say about Lake Street. It's so untrue! See for yourself... Business is thriving on Lake Street and business is thriving at Nicollet and 38th Where did this "urban legend" come from? Ken Avidor STRIDE Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] 35W Access Project-Blight & 38th
It takes more than just traffic to create a successful small business district. When comparing 38th street to 46th street, I always try and remember what 46th used to look like when I was a kid. UGLY! I recall a few gas stations, KFC and a Snyders with a large broken up messy parking lot. It all changed when they used the overly large parking lot for making the small strip mall. There already was the existing traffic with potential shoppers. What made the area viable with the addition of *more* businesses. Once the strip mall took off, then even more businesses started filling in the rest of the area, making the location a good one, as it has now become a destination stop. At 38th street I see the same thing without the big empty parking lot. Instead right around the area up and down the streets (Nicollet and 38th) are empty buildings, or often struggling businesses. When Nicollet was closed off, and traffic diverted from the main cross street (38th was the MAIN cross street for the old trollies) most of the businesses dried up. 38th already has the buildings, and the origional zoning, but it is lacking the traffic it was always designed for. The only difference now is we have cars, not trollies...and most of it is on the wrong street. Now hopefully if it gets the round about and 35W access, 38th can pick itself up a bit farther. It already has a good start. To me this isn't an issue about traffic. Like it or not, we have traffic and it won't be going away any time soon, no matter what. So as I see it, we should make the best use of it as possible. Leaving it all on the predominantly residential streets of 35th-36th, is not it's best use. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield -37th and Nicollet (who doesn't see 46th street as an "action alert" that the suburbs are somehow invading the city.) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Proposed Speed increases on highway 55
On 13 Nov 2002 at 14:50, Patrick Peterson wrote: Highway 55 was never designed to be a 35MPH road. Correct, The Hiawatha Avenue Location and Design study in March 1981 specifically states that the speed limit was to be 40MPH. My memory is a little rusty for stuff over 20 years ago, but I think that predates the reconstruction. The speed limits are an old promise. I can't blame people for wanting them to keep it. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@;mnforum.org Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] y
Correct, The Hiawatha Avenue Location and Design study in March 1981 specifically states that the speed limit was to be 40MPH. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@;mnforum.org Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Drug discussion reconsidered
I have a question. Say drugs were legalized. Where do you put the red light district? Which neighborhood gets stuck with it? Granted some neighborhoods seem to be stuck with it now, but what would a legal declaration of such and such a place do to that neighborhood? Would you have plans of clearing out the residents? Would it be like clearing a path for a road? Emminant domain? How far away would it have to be from the regular neighbourhoods? Or are you thinking more like going to the local gas station (anywhere) and picking up a hit? Do you let some people rot? There will be a group that might be able to "handle it". But what about the true hard core junkies? What would their status be if drugs were legal? Just curious about how you envision the area... Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Computers in schools
I find I come from a different angle than most on this topic. To put it in context, I make my living off of computers, and am an engineer in the field, helping to develop new techniques and tools too. However I hardly touched a computer until 12th grade. In the next three years I knew enough about computers to get a good job in the industry. Now I don't think I'm Gods gift to the computer industry or anything, and I'm not any brighter than the average guy. So it taught me a simple lesson. If your focused, you can learn everything you need to about computers in a relatively short time. So I don't resent not having too many computers in the schools growing up. I am much happier to have learned the basics, reading, writing, math (instead of how to plug in numbers on a calculator or computer), how to do *real* research (instead of typing a word into a search engine on the internet) etc. Because in the end, if you know your basics, transferring them to a new platform is a piece of cake (at least if you compare it to learning the basics). I certainly don't think computers are bad, I use them every day! But I highly question their benefit as a learning tool, especially in the lower grades in school. Working with a bunch of other engineers who all have degrees in math and computers, we gripe about this all the time. We see the knowledge gap in the interns! It pains us to hear stories like Kindergarteners and grade schoolers being required to work with computers. Ninths graders being required to have graphic calculators. That's a really stupid policy-they shouldn't have a calculator at all. They have plenty of time for that later. They need to start with the basics! It's a universal understanding at my job, that a lot of these policies about computer use is depriving the kids of what they really need to know. It's not too hard to teach someone to use a computer, but if you get stuck with someone who doesn't know reading writing and math, your in for a world of hurt! Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Instant Runoff Voting
If anyone disagrees that IRV is superior to our current system, please point out how and why. * Take a three candidate election, 1 liberal, one conservative, one independent. For simplicity, use 12 voters (in real life you would need to expand the percentages) 5 prefer the liberal candidate, with the independent candidate as a second choice. 4 prefer the conservative with the independent as a second choice. 2prefer the independent with the conservative as a second choice. 1prefer the independent with the liberal as a second choice. Clearly the independent would be the most agreeable choice with all voters. However the independent looses in the first round of instant run-off because they received the lowest initial votes (lowest primary votes). The people who voted for the independent has their second choice votes instead, and one of the others get elected. This is just one simple example of that system failing in the almost identical way our current vote for 1 system would. In the current system, people would say the independent wont win, and split that vote among the other two, with a resulting statistical near dead heat much like republicans and democrats currently have in the nation. When you run the numbers in various ways, most of the time BOTH systems works, sometimes BOTH don't. But as a whole, I don't see IRV as superior because it has as many failings as the vote for 1 system we currently have-at least when I did the math. (Might not be saying much there) But I think you would need to look at the probability of each failing and compare those. In practice each system will work AND fail in different ways. For the city to look at adopting a new system, I would like failure comparison (since that's what we're trying to fix) not just advantages of each, or the failures of one and not the other. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] evil cops?
I've been silent on the issue lately, but I've grown more and more irritated with the posts. I've seen some really crapy police behavior myself, but instead of generalizing, try and stick to specifics. Because in truth, once you do that, you find more good cops than bad, and its by a big margin. Statements such as "they lie in wait for the opportunity to arrest - kill, if necessary - men and women who have served time or been shoved through the justice system one way or another." That just fans the flames. So does further racism in both directions from blacks or whites. That goes for the apologist who will back either side up too for whatever reason. Granted mentally ill people have it tough, but if one pulls a gun and starts shooting at you what would you do? Deploy active listening skills so you could understand their (real) pain as you begin bleeding all over the place? So specifically, if one person shoots a cop, or any other person for that reason, and it's not murder, what would you call it? Please don't take offence, I honestly want to know. And I would like to see some specifics, because criticism is all fine and dandy, but without anyone talking about some sort of alternative solutions, what difference will it make? So take the recent event of your choice (this will have to be minneapolis events to follow list rules), someone is shooting, what do you do, what's the alternative as bullets are flying in a residential area, and the cops can't shoot back, because the possibly ill person with a weapon might get hurt or die? And please be specific. What's the alternative to the actions that were taken? I don't want criticism of what happened, but what you would have done differently, and why you think that it would have solved the crisis better. Example; Your the police officer, and you see a drug deal and the dealer runs. What would you do? What if they have a weapon? And I'm going to hold you to the rules. Leagalizing drugs is not an answer. Cops today don't have that option, so neither will you. A person is aiming a gun at you. What would YOU do? A person fires the gun. What would YOU do? Please be specific. I'm sure that any new, realistic, workable ideas would have a good listening audience. And if its really good it might even catch on and change police policy. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Park road shut down?
The problem is simple, it's a slap in the face to have hwy 55 traffic in Minnehaha park, given that millions were spent on a sound wall to keep the effect of that specific traffic OUT of the park. I think what this comes down to is, do you want the park to be an extension of the highway? Is the park there for general commuting, or is the road there to serve the people who use the park? Personally I applaud the park board for limiting the road to park users. Remember in 1999, $50,000 a day was spent for security because of all the protests about the highway being next to the park in the first place? Do we really want to open up the can of worms of allowing that traffic to *really* use the park? If so, we might as well as remove the sound wall and put some lanes in the space that the sound wall takes up. Because what would be the point of the sound wall? Come to think of it, why have the park at all? Let's just have a big freeway. Screw those park users, they do nothing, just sitting in the sun anyway.what's a little more exhaust and noise? Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield On 10 May 2002 at 21:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Park Board shut down the park road between 54th st and Minnehaha Parkway this week? Excuse me? What's going on Park board Wade Russell longfellow ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Minnehaha road
I was enjoying a stroll through Minnehaha park today and noticed that the park road is still closed with a road block in the middle of the park. Not only that, but the new dirt road around the road-block got a road block too. I admit I can't help but laugh at that awful stupid reroute of hwy 55it's so poor people choose a 25mph windy road instead of it. So folks, what's the permant plan for the new, ahem, "Grand Enterance" (I believe that's what they sold it as) that was installed in Minnehaha Park, so it doesn't become an extension of the reroute? Or is the orange barricade with new dirt roads around it going to be a permant feature? Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Camp Coldwater
A committee passed the resolution asking the legislators to not change the law protecting Coldwater on Tuesday. It is supposed to go before the City Council for a vote on Friday. The resolution, photos, a virtual tour, MnDOT maps, the 1837 map, and about 1000 times the info the Wimpy Historical Society would ever dare post is all available at www.preservecampcoldwater.org Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Ivy Tower
The Ivy Tower is a cool looking building. I love architecture and the different designs in the city really make it more attractive. However I have always questioned this one. The design is and always has been only 25% complete. The other 75% was never built. There were supposed to be three other towers to go with it! This also says nothing of the center dome design that was never built. I think this has a lot to do with why it looks so out of place. Given the amount of damage the building has sustained, and the TIF that it apparently requires, would it be financially better off to tear it down and rebuild it back just like before? Then it could be more easily incorporated into the development around it. I'm asking because I really don't know the answer. I hate to see things wasted. But seeing the pictures on the inside I have to ask, what are we saving? I hope the rest is in better shape than the picture in the paper! I wouldn't want to spend city money for saving somthing that can be rebuilt better and cheaper. Here's an analogy. I was at an antique store. (I love antiques) It had an old solid brass nozel for a garden hose. The kind like they made in the '20s. Old rotted out rubber gasket and everything. But the design is a good one and it works quite well. I needed a nozel and could buy this one for $7.50. I didn't. Instead I went to Ace hardware and baught a new one, of the IDENTICAL DESIGN, that didn't need the repair for $3. I hate wasting things, but sometimes you have to admit it's time to recycle it. Is the Ivy Tower to this stage yet? I honestly don't know. But I hope the city has looked at the option. Tom Holtzleiter King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] city debt
The posts on Minneapolis city debt is interesting. If I did my math correct it works out to $10,000 to $11,000 per household (depending on which figures you use). Does anyone know how this ranks with other cities in the metro? Better/worse? Tom Holtzleiter King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Replacements (was: R.T and a Twins stadium)
When I said replace them, I wasn't talking replacement players. I never said I despised the players either. I just think they have one sweet deal with what they already have. For replacements why not let the majors fend for themselves? Call up every city (or state) like who is getting screwed by MLB usually by not even having a team, and have city teams? Any major city could have one. Minneapolis St Paul Duluth Rochester Plus every bigger city in all the other states. many more games, sell cheaper tickets like $5 Build smaller fields, each city can own their own team and field. Keep the profits too. Salary caps at say $10 (including owners) You would have many more games, cheaper tickets, become a more friendly affair. Plus the community would be more willing to invest in it as they would have a stake in the profits. That's what I mean by replace them. Of course that's a lot like minor league and why the leaders of the city and state leaves them out of the equation and bend over backwards for millionaire owners crying for money I will never know. That's more real for us all having baseball. But MLB isn't interested in that. MLB is about money not baseball. Baseball just happens to be how they make that money. Make no mistake on that. That's why they only have a few teams eligible for the entire "World Series". Fewer teams means more profit for the cats at the top. I don't despise them for it-but I don't think they deserve any special favours for it either. That's why I would much rather see mayors like RT try for that instead of a new stadium for the Twins. While I don't support spending $10 million for the Twins, I would support the expense for a team to play against the Saints. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] R.T. and a Twins Stadium
> The problem is that so much of Minneapolis' recent > development including an expanded convention center, > Block E, new hotels at the Depot, downtown housing, > and all the tax increment financed projects, etc are > predicated upon the assumption sports teams will be in > or close to downtown Minneapolis. That probably has more to do with the convention center itself, not baseball. The convention center brings in all those business people who really do get hotel rooms. Having no kitchen in the hotel rooms they have to go to the restaurants. Having nothing to do at times away from home they go to the entertainment areas. That could include baseball, but if not they will do something else. There's a million and a half people wo would love to play baseball, and would do it for a lot less. MLB is a mess. If they aren't happy with the good deal they already have with their million dollar salaries and a Dome, Replace Them. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Rybak/PAC Money
Did the mailing just list out who they support, or did they send out litature on everything Rybak? Because if it's just a listing of who they support/endorse, that could get into free speech stuff. Not getting that mailing myself, I'm just wondering. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield On 1 Nov 01, at 7:07, Becker wrote: I received in the mail yesterday a sample ballot printed by the Police Union which prominently features Mr. Rybak. The Police Union (a special interest group) is making direct expenditures to benefit Mr. Rybak. Isn't this this exactly what Mr. Rybak was saying he wasn't going to do? Carol Becker Longfellow ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Lynn Levine for Park Board
I asked Lynn about her views on the river, as Mary presented it. Lynn had said that she has actually been criticized for focusing too much on the river, being that the lakes are in her district. But she said "water is water is water". For specifics she emailed me to her Sierra Club question answers, which is complete enough to be over the 10K limit of this list. For those interested in reading it, go to; http://www.e-democracy.org/mpls/levinesierra.htm Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Bureau of Mines - For Sale, Again?
An "indefinite postponement" of the runway extension also means there is no
longer any reason why the 55/62 interchange needs to be dug into the
ground to stay under the overflight of airplanes.
MnDOT has said to the Lower Mn Watershed meeting that's the reason why
the interchange is dug down at all. So now the road can be raised and
Coldwater Spring can be saved for sure from that threat.
Of course this all gets to go through the legislator as that is where MnDOT
has decided to take it. (at least if they keep up with their initial claims)
Tom Holtzleiter
Kingfield
On 2 Oct 01, at 12:53, Dean Lindberg wrote:
From: Dean Lindberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mpls Issues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject:[Mpls] Bureau of Mines - For Sale, Again?
Date sent: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 12:53:35 -0700
[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]
MAC Deputy Executive Director Nigel Finney briefed the airports Planning
and Environment committee today, and described the capitol improvement
budget cuts planned in the wake of the events of September 11th.
Capitol improvement spending will be severely cut for the year 2003,
from a planned $371 million to a skeletal $76 million.
In response to a question concerning the acquisition of the Bureau of
Mines property (which contains the spring around which the Camp
Coldwater community was centered), Finney said the airlines are in favor
of indefinitely postponing the runway 4/22 extension project, which
includes the purchase of the Bureau of Mines. ("Indefinite
postponement" is the term used by airports and airlines in substitute
for the word "canceled".)
Finney also stated that the MAC is withdrawing from negotiations for the
Bureau of Mines purchase in response to the airline's decision
supporting an indefinite postponement of the 4/22 runway extension.
--
Dean Lindberg
Minneapolis, MN 55417
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls
___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] MNDOT stops work at highway 55 interchange
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Actually LRT will cross Hwy 55 a few hundred feet north of the interchange. The Star Tribune has a good map at; http://www.startribune.com/graphics/flash/23/09cold23/ The LRT goes down the old Minnehaha ave, and crosses 55 just North of the new bridge already built. Unless the LRT bridge requires footings to break the bedrock that feeds the spring (it isn't supposed to) it wont be a problem. Tom Kingfield neighborhood On 24 Sep 01, at 10:17, ken bradley wrote: Bruce Gaarder Wrote: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- A question for Pam Blixt or someone else who knows. Does the recent decision to stop work imply a problem with the lrt bridge past this area? I don't remember exactly where the bridge goes, but I would assume that those plans were done expecting that the highway 55/62 interchange would be completed by the time lrt got there. Does the lrt bridge plan meet MCWD criteria? Will the state sue the state to get lrt through this area? Ken Bradley Reply: This will have no effect on the LRT. The LRT runs several blocks to the west of the interchange this is the only part of highway 55 that does not run side by side to LRT. Ken Bradley Corcoran Neighborhood blocks to the west of the interchange this is the only part of highway 55 that does not run side by side to LRT. Ken Bradley Corcoran Neighborhood Bruce Gaarder Highland Park Saint Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Camp Coldwater and MnDOT
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Tim Bonham asked; Can someone please explain how this could have been built on the current alignment? It seems to me that there is not enough room where the road goes between the Vet's Hospital and the Old Soldiers Home area to fit the road there. And we could not have acquired any of more land, since this is Federal land, and as such is not subject to state eminent domain proceedings. LRT would have to fly over the road. It would effectively add in an additional bridge to double deck the land. Think Chicago style raised tracks. But reguardless, did MnDOT and other leaders assure the public Coldwater would not be affected? Yes, more times than I have counted. It has been boasted as being protected as early as march 1981 from the reroute. They talk of the pump house as "the first structure built at Fort Snelling" (Of course the structure has more significance to them than the Spring, which is why the structure is there) MnDOT produced a "Fact and Myth" sheet where it says MnDOT will "insure that the spring is not impacted." And distributed it all over. Everyone reads it, everyone says Coldwater will not be affected. Our leaders included. No one wanted to look and see that what really happened was MnDOT had a few ideas to "try" and REDUCE impact, and if they messed up, pump city water in to replace the spring. Kind of like Loring pond. It used to be natural, now it's the city's tap being left on...that's also how they drained it so easily when they rebuilt it. Just turn off the faucet. Most claims of protection stem off of a geologist at MnDOT. In July 1997, He brought up the problems with the origional intent of blasting a trench in the rock for a sewer line under the road. He effectively said it would probably destroy the spring. He gave three alternatives, "that will reduce the chances of disturbance, or may serve to mitigate disturbance by attempting to seal off the perching layers should they become breached." To MnDOTs credit they are doing all three, (included no blasting) but the geologist never said no impact, he said it will reduce the chances. But the public was told over and over again, the spring will not be affected. Personally I dont like the oops factor happening here. I have been told that when they said no impact, they didnt really mean no impact. As far as Im concerned this is pathetic. They are either going to save the spring or not. If MnDOT dosnt want to build a 4-8 million solution, fine. Do the studies to show why their smaller solution works. Dont give us some Im pretty sure answer. MnDOT says they can be sued with the current law if they take one cup of water from the interchange. This is stupid. I know the people most involved with the whole Coldwater issue. They dont like MnDOT. They would be quite happy to not have to deal with them anymore. They would probably throw a party, if they didnt have to deal with MnDOT anymore. If the spring is saved, as MnDOT has promised it will be, everyone will leave them alone. Besides I just saw MnDOTs Richard Stehr, and MCWDs Eric Eevenson debate on TV. Evenson is right, if the watershed whos express mission is protecting and dealing with the water issues says its OK, anyone else wont have much of a leg to stand on. Stehr said MnDOT had hired its own exerts and no impact will happen to the spring. MnDOT is committed to that. If so, then whats MnDOT fighting? I happen to have a report from one of MnDOTs hired geologists that says that the water to the spring partly comes from the intersection. I can e-mail the maps to anyone who asks. (Of course MnDOT now said that consultant is wrong) I think the saddest thing of all was at the last Lower Mn watershed meeting, where Dennis Larson a MnDOT engineer seemed to have a workable solution to the whole mess, but he cant present it. MnDOT told him construction must stop. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield PS Great Job Eric! Thanks to MCWD for all the great work they have been doing too! ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Camp Coldwater a question...
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- (Brandon Lacy Campos) wrote Can someone answer this question for me. Does the halting of the project (or the re-rerouting of the re-route) mean that the sacred trees that were cut down on the parkway were cut down for no reason? -Brandon Lacy Campos-Powderhorn Park (Ken Bradley Reply) The only way to say that would be to remove the reroute. That's highly unlikely. The trees were cut down to make room for the road, plain and simple. MnDOT is not going to give up it's new found right of way. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Camp Coldwater
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- MnDOT simply decided that they didn't want to spend the money to construct the solution that was presented to both MnDOT and MCWD by a mutually agreed to third party consultant. Never mind the fact that they had to pay mucho bucks to the construction company that they had a signed contract with to build the intersection, and now broke that contract to stop all construction. (I was told 2 million, but I have no way of verifying that, but I do know they had to pay something). Last night at a Lower Mn Watershed meeting the engineer who had worked on designs, said it's out. He was told construction is on hold, and a tempory bypass will be put in for winter. Some people on this list criticized me when I said before, had they bucked up and built a 14.5 million bridge, the reroute through Minnehaha Park could have been avoided. All the protests would not have happened. And we wouldn't have a curvy road with blind corners through the park. Maybe we could have even had a bicycle trail that went through the park without needlessly crossing the road five times (sorry different issue). But my point is, here we go again. Before they thought they would save 14.5 million, and build the reroute. Add the cost of all the protests, all the lawyers fees for all the lawsuits, all the police pay, etc. Way more than 14.5 million was spent. Now they want to save 4 to 8 million. How much has the two watersheds spent on this? How much has MnDOT spent on this? How many hours has citizens spent on this? And to think, the testing on waterflows that would answer a lot of questions still has never been done. MnDOT sucks at picking their battles. I think they should just do proper water management, given they never did proper testing, build the road and be done with it. But no. Welcome to the world of MnDOT. We're going back to the legislature. Why? Because despite years of saying "we'll protect the spring", when called on it, MnDOT said no, actually we wont. They say the law is to blame. The law says, you may not diminish the flow to the spring. This isn't hard. What's hard is riding MnDOT for years on end trying to get them to do it. Now that it looks like they would have to, Stehr the division engineer said no. So like a small child who lost a board game and flipped the pieces all up in the air, Stehr said I'm not playing any more. Construction has stopped. How much has the legislators spent on this, if you add their hours in? Add the watershed, the people, MnDOT, lawyers fees, court costs, breech of contracts. We aren't saving anything. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield Ward 10 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Some more thoughts on the road to hell....
DAVID CHRISTENSON wrote: > "On the other hand it seems bizarre to me that natural features that were > ignored for decades while the highway plan was on the back burner suddenly > became revered for their historic and religious significance when the heavy > machinery finally revved up. Very bizarre." Camp Coldwater was designated as Historical Site by Hennepin County Historical Society in 1952. It wasn't ignored for decades, it was simply behind a locked barbed wire fence hidden from your view for decades. Kinda feels like the highway planswhen you asked people in the park "did you know a highway is going to go through here?" You got the all to familiar blank stare...very few knew of the plans. Very Bizarre. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Coldwater Preservation Law Threatened with Repeal
Below are the names of those who sought to protect the Coldwater Spring with the proper protection that this site of significance to so many, deserves. Please give them a call, or send them a letter and ask that they deny MnDOTs request to become somehow above all others and become exempt from the law that protects Coldwater from dewatering. To date the disregard for this community resource by MnDOT has reached its height in their attempt to become exempt from the law. MnDOT who has consistently declared that they would protect Coldwater Spring is now seeking to become exempt from legally being responsible for doing so. MnDOT who on; January 9, 1999 Star Tribune editorial authored by Bob McFarlin (MnDOT's thendirector of public affairs) in which he states: The very best the community can do is study all the potential impacts thoroughly, factually and within the law, and then exercise informed leadership for the good of all. The Hiawatha Corridor Project is a shining, successful example of this type of community consensus. On August 25, 1993, the Minnesota Department of Transportation requested a Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI) from the Federal Highway Administration. In order to do so, public record of community input was destroyed, removing the community opposition to their project so as to win Federal approval. This was reported on in various newspapers. Camp Coldwater was designated as Historical Site by Hennepin County Historical Society in 1952. Minnesota Historical Society puts up historical marker at Camp Coldwater in July 1991. The State Historical Preservation Office commissioned Bryant Intertec to do historical background check as part of its closing procedure in 1996. The report states in its recommendation, the spring should be preserved. In December of 1997, Russell Fridley the former president of the Minnesota Historical Society, filed deposition in lawsuit in favor of preserving the Camp Coldwater site because of its historical place in Minnesota history. 3-19-2001 Iowa Tribe again declares Camp Coldwater a sacred site. August 1998 MnDOT told the Indian Affairs Council; When completed, the new roadway will not impact the Camp Coldwater site. Construction is not expected to impact the flow of underground water to the Camp Coldwater spring. The Minnesota Indian Affairs Council then agreed to approve MnDOTs plans. However once they found out that MnDOTs plan to keep Coldwater flowing included piping in city water if the spring dried up, MIAC changed their stance to such an extent as to demand the resignation of state archeologist Mark Dudzak who approved such a plan. Today as the road is actually being built, MnDOT continues to want out of the legal responsibility they now have to protect the spring, and is currently lobbying the legislator to escape that responsibility. An April 1999 MnDOT study states that Coldwater will not be affected by construction May 25, 1999, MnDOT states in court (under oath presumably) Weve measured the hydrostatic pressure in the soil and in the [Platteville] limestone and they are not connected...Theres no construction that we have had design for that impacts the limestone in any way. All our construction is limited to the soil layer (Mr. Wetmore, pg. 109, lines 2 through13) Actuality: The limestone and soil are hydraulically interconnected. The MCWD hydrogeologist, Kelton Barr, reviewed pump test data collected in 1973. The data indicated the saturated soil overlying the Plateville limestone is in hydraulic connection. This is demonstrated by the hydraulic contours of the saturated overburden which reflected the fracture zone orientation of the limestone. July 1999 Open letter from MnDOT Commissioner Tinklenberg states; Some people have alleged that Mn/DOT shoved this project down the throats of citizens. Nothing could be further from the truth. Really? Then why is MnDOT trying to undo the specific law the community and legislators supported and passed to protect Coldwater? Why is MnDOT now trying to do the opposite of what they said?!?! October 1999 MnDOT stated in a public news release; Camp Coldwater Spring was not identified in either the 1983 or 1985 statements because the project avoids the spring, located on Bureau of Mines property. The project has been designed to avoid impacting the flow of groundwater to the spring. Mn/DOT will monitor both water quantity and quality during construction to insure that the spring is not impacted. Yet MnDOT continues to lobby the government to release them of the law that binds MnDOT to do so. April 27th, 2000 The Bureau of Mines is open for an Open House for the public to view Coldwater for themselves. MnDOT knwe of the date weeks beforehand. The day before however, MnDOT just happens to bulldoze the road leading up to the grounds leaving auto access unpassable, and post no l
Re: [Mpls] Proposed Changes to Creek Corridor
Mpls-Issues tip: please delete as much of this message's text as possible if replying to the list. Thanks! --- I have a few suggestions to the changes if it includes the bike trails. First one is I often see families riding bicycles with kids who are just learning to ride, and often when the trail comes to a street the street is higher than the creek corridor so the trail rises up to meet the street. The parent comes up the trail to stop at the street, and the kid is behind on the slanted trail trying to come to a stop, but falls over because they don't know how to stop on a hill. (some are very steep) So I would suggest a small platform where the trails come up to a street, nothing big, just a bit of fill to make a level spot for folks to stop. Keeping on that line of thought, don't line the paths with concrete like they did on lake Harriet or Calhoun. It makes a crease where the asphalt and concrete meet, and I've watched that take out a few kids too, as they get their tires stuck in the crack, loose it a bit, and then fall off the edge of the trail into the dirt. Last I would have them make an effort to loose the blind sharp corners. One in particular is if you are heading down the creek towards lake Harriet, and cross Lyndale Ave, you go down a steep hill and then there is a sharp blind corner at the bottom. Everyone who goes down this swings out into the left side of the trail, and I've seen a few collisions with oncoming bicyclists. Another example is at the creek between Nicollet and Lyndale where the bike trail goes into a woodsy area, and makes a few blind sharp corners. This is dangerous enough that many bicyclists just ride down the walking trail instead, which is straight and open. So I would suggest as often as possible, eliminate the sharp blind corners. Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Mission to destroy -you think it's ballanced?
Bob, Sorry about the need to unload, I mean no disrespect (I really don't) but you struck a cord... You dont think the government is good at making money? Thats a debate I think Ill leave alone. But tax and spend is what government does, whatever your political philosophy. So while I can point to no official policy, I think you will have to agree its a simple fact of life within a government. So I will maintain money is what it comes down to, or if you prefer, how it is spent. Im not saying dont do a given project. I am saying that holding ponds for road run off for example, should have been part of the original designs. Not some sort of after thought that it currently is. Yes we have come a long way, but it's because we are playing makeup games to things that should have been done decades ago. Its a system that lets the original developers off the hook without paying the true cost of their project. Taxpayers pick up the tab later. We are building a holding pond just north of hwy 62 and Nicollet Ave. near the Cub Foods store. That should have been there long long ago. My whole life I watched the area flood as a direct result of our construction and inadequate designs. But it has taken until now to start to properly deal with the effects that we have on the environment. Remember when it was Supervalu, and the parking lot turned into a pond every time it rained? Remember when Cub went up in Supervalus place and they graded the lot so it wouldnt flood any more? Remember when all that water went to their neighbors houses across the street instead? Remember when the city decided to remove those peoples homes to build a pond to fix it? Go there and look my friend, and believe me, it was an oops. Unless you are the cynical type, and then you can ask why was Cub allowed to dump their water run off on the houses across the street? Why were houses chosen to be removed, instead of half of the parking lot that originally flooded? Did money play a role? Who has the bigger tax base? Is that a coincidence? Did Cub or Supervalu who helped cause the problem help pay for the pond? I dont know. Who gets to decide what is right and balanced? Good question. Heres another one. Who gets to decide who has to loose their home because of someone elses mistake? My guess on both fronts its the same people. And as to your comment about electing people, I have made it to every last election to vote after I turned 18, except for one primary. Yes I have heard of environmental impact statements. Obviously from your comments you dont know how they work. (be sure to read May 14 1997 in the timeline below) An environmental impact statement is just that, a statement. It does not bar you from things, it just sometimes makes you document them, and if you are good, you do something about the problems. If you have a lot of money and power you dont have to do it. A more severe example is at the Mega mall on the fourth floor. It doesnt even come close to meeting fire code. The inspector that called them on it for the lack of fire exits when it was being built was fired. They then hired someone who would not hold them to the policy. A simple policy does not work if it is not followed. If you dont believe me, go there. Count how many people are on the fourth floor, and count the exists for people to flee if there is a fire. But was the project held up to correct the situation? Too much money involved for that. Do you see the pattern? How about an EIS specific case in Minneapolis? You stated you think the balanced approach was followed with Hwy 55 reroute because the 15 million was spent in other ways than to avoid the reroute. Let me give you a short time line as to what you are backing. You may change your mind. And please remember the NRP did not get the money. I have all documentation to back this up- if you really want the full text let me know. 1964 Hwy 55 was to be a freeway design like 35W. Construction started within a few years. The park board fights to save Minnehaha Park. August 1969 the Mn Supreme court rules Road right of ways are superior and refuses to balance (yes that is their word, refuses to balance) the value of competing public uses of land when one condemning agency wants to take land already used by another. 1969-1988 budget problems stop most all of the construction of the road. ? through1981, a group of about 30, mostly business leaders, become a citizen advisory committee with mailings that claimed All can be assured that they will be listened to and kept abreast of the projects status and progress however the mailings failed to include the people who would lose their home to the project, the people around it, or the rest of the city. (Go to the records department at city hall and look up the mailing list if you like) They did however play a key role in lowering the speed limit to 35MPH and keeping the road out of a trench like 35W. 1985 an Environmental Impact Statement (E
Re: [Mpls] Mission to destroy our biosphere
On 28 Apr 01, at 16:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question stands. How is our government trying to destroy the biosphere, or on a smaller level, what are the city governments anti-environmental policies? In my opinion, it all comes down to money. What we do as a society is based around what makes money. That's the idea of the Target subsidy downtown, or Block E or whatever. It's all a skeme to make more money in the end. The main problem with this is that the environment gets left in the dust. We concentrate more on what is profitable than what is right or balanced. To date the vast majority of our environmental policies is based on oops we messed that up...what can we do to fix it? Some things work out well, such as sewage treatment. Other things arn't so lucky, like running highways through parks, destroying powderhorn lake, Loring pond (it's pumped full with city water), Black ash seeps in Minnehaha park, Bus Hubs proposed next to parks...bla bla bla the list goes on, all with the attitude of it's the price of progress. I think this is what people really hate. Sure we get drainage ponds that *help* clean up road run-off and it's better than it used to be a few years ago, but it usually is still worse than before we started our projects. Example: Hwy 55 is now running through Minnehaha Park. According to D. Schulstad (city council) in a mailing before it happened; "When checking into a restudy of this decision (to realign hwy 55) , I found it would delay the project completion date by several years (until 2004) and add nearly fifteen million dollars to the total cost. For those reasons, the City Council and Mayor chose to not revisit the recommendations and decisions made by the citizens committee several years ago. " So now we have it...A highway through a park, all because we as a city were too cheap to spend 15 Million, and wait a few years to keep the road at it's original route. Is this following policy? I couldn't tell you... but I can say it does follow the money, and all the protests and all the damage is the result. But we do have cool roads and buildings and stuff...and we get them cheap! Tom Holtzleiter Kingfield ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] re: 35W/62 Watershed Permit
This may be too early to ask questions (this might be answered at the meeting?) but how will Diamond Lake be affected exactly? Will it become filled with deiceing chemicals to the extent that it will affect aquatic life? Will it flood? 24 acres of added roadway seems like a lot of space (over a million square feet of freeway surface run-off). And if so, what can be done to protect the lakes, being that 35W and 62 wont be going away? I know Pam Blixt just sent out a meeting announcement and this might be all answered at the meeting, but I'm looking for a preview of how the new interchange will affect Diamond lake and possibly the whole chain of lakes. Any more info out there on this? Tom Holtzleiter King Field ** *** * Subject: [Mpls] 35W/62 Watershed Permit Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 05:11:10 -0700 I guess this is not my week to improve relations with the MN Department of Transportation. Thank you Steve Brandt, for your article about Coldwater Spring! This Thursday evening at Minnetonka City Hall at around 7 p.m. the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District will be holding its public hearing for the 35W/62 Crosstown project. The project will increase impervious surface by 24 acres out of a total project size of 77 acres, much of which drains to Diamond Lake. I am concerned that the proposed project does not provide enough protection for Diamond Lake. I would be love to have residents who may be concerned about the effects of the highway project on water quality testify at the hearing. The city hall is located about 3 blocks west of 494 at Minnetonka Boulevard at 14600 Minnetonka Boulevard. Please pass this on to interested neighbors...sorry for the short notice. Pam Blixt Nokomis East President, Board of Managers Minnehaha Creek Watershed District ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] 35 36 38 and 35W
My feeling on the 35/36/38th street and 35W ramps are that whoever gets the ramps gets screwed. It doesn't matter which street it is. If you live on that particular street, it's going to suck having all the traffic in your front yard. Because I see it like that, I don't understand why anyone would be pushing for duel street ramps like 35th and 36th street. Why screw over two streets with heavy traffic, when you can get away with just one? Will that be the most efficient way to move cars? No. But is the most efficient way to move cars your ideal way to treat a neighborhood? Living in the neighborhood I don't want busy streets everywhere. Pick one. I don't care much which one, but it should be just one. The other two should be residential. (I'd even give them their boulevards back!) Get the city to COMMIT to one street and keep it. Then people will know which street will be busy and which wont. Businesses and houses can be more stable knowing what the street will be, now and in the future. It's the flip-flopping of residential/commercial streets, and the lack of commitment by the city to "pick one" that has produced this mess in the first place. Tom Holtzleiter King Field 37th Street, a street I picked specifically because there is no bridge over 35W, and with one at 35, 36 and 38, I figure the city will never spend money for another bridge over 37th. A commentary I find to be quite sad, that I have to look at things like that to ensure that the city wont change it's mind on what 37th street is .commercial or residential. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] re: Busses and pollution
Yep it's true that a hybrid has batteries and motors and they weigh more.
Busses do a lot of breaking though and that's a lot of wasted energy.
Recapturing it really can make up for the difference in weight, and then become
more efficient in the end.
Useing technology like when braking or coasting to a stop, the hybrid uses its
electric motor as a generator to produce electricity, which is then stored in
its battery pack, as opposed to transforming that energy to heat that is then
dissipated into the air as a conventional bus does. They also can have better
transmissions, like locomotives, which by the way are almost always hybrid
electric diesels for that reason.
That's not to say a hybrid is an end all to pollution, and future engine
technology may some day replace it. But I'm happy to hear that Metro Transit is
doing something to help make the city more breathable with the technology we
can currently buy.
Tom Holtzleiter
King Field
From: Dyna Sluyter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject:[Mpls] Re: Busses and Pollution- Has Metro Transit
found a perpetual
motion machine?
Date sent: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:11:08 -0600
[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]
Hmm... has a small diesel engine, batteries, and electric
motors, and uses less fuel and pollutes less than a diesel bus? Has
Metro Transit found a loophole in the basic laws of physics? I think
not- The power ultimately has to come from the diesel engine, whether
you demand a constant 100 horses from it and store said power in
batteries for peak demands or intermittently ask for 200 to 300
horsepower. In fact the current standard Metro Transit bus's engine
is of about the optimum size for efficiency, at about 1.7-2.0 liters
per cylinder. Smaller (car and light truck) and larger (locomotive)
engines are usually less efficient.
Perhaps Metro Transit needs to drug test some of it's
administrators as well as the drivers...
peace,
Dyna Sluyter from Hawthorne
--
Dyna Sluyter
friend of Bill W. and Harry B.
USPS TTO, 554 MVS tour 3 operator, 6610142('96 Mack MR tractor, 2.8m
wheelbase ) de N0EGF, qrv 70cm, 2m, 10-80m
proud IBT and APWU member for over 20 years, solidarity forever!
mk.1 Mini Cooper S, mk.2 Golf diezel, Ranger XL 4x4 longbed ("da
service truck")
R100GS mit seitzwagen, R65LS
Teledyne Titan, Santana, Trek 7300
Quickie GP, Fortress AeroEdge
running C/PM, DOS, Linux, and Mac OS. Micro who?
Amtrak 1007, highball!
___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Busses and Pollution
Thinking of Busses and pollution, (yes I know cars pollute a lot too) does anyone know if Minneapolis is ever going to get hybrid electric diesel buses? These are the kind with diesel generator that runs at a constant speed to generate electricity. This way they don't spew the black smog when taking off. An electric motor is what actually runs the bus. This also eliminates the transmission, so no more jerky shifts. Also they ride lower, so no steps on the bus, just one step up, but it does loose a couple seats because you can't put them over the wheel wells anymore. Any chance we can start breathing easier, or do we continue to avoid bus routs just to stay away from the black diesel smog? Anyone know if Minneapolis and Metro Transit has looked into this? Tom Holtzleiter King Field Many Crows wrote; So it's been a day or two and my issue of pollution in the city is already a dead issue here. Why? Mostly, from my perspective it's because when your car centric, it never even occurs to you that your poisoning me. That exhaust is nothing you think. I think and I feel as though I'm being poisoned if I walk/ride the downtown streets. Walk Nicollet during the week just about any time of day and it's like hanging out at a gas station. I know many will agree, but what can be done. We can't hurt the economics of our city with restrictions. Heaven forbid we would do the right thing. I don't blame the office holders, they're getting no calls about this. Where is the public? Where are the people of this list? Like the post I saw on the snow shoveling, you can do all the right things and it seems to fall on deaf ears. The MPCA can put out a damning report, the Sierra club can lobby, activists can chant. Were not doing this for ourselves alone, we are doing it for you and yours. Clinton did clean diesel fuel up a bit, but those regulations are years away still. When the sky does fall, you'll mix up the story of the boy who cried wolf with little red riding hood. And all you'll do is point fingers. There are solutions but we have to demand them, they won't just give us fresh air for nothing. Robert Yorga ne w3 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] bus driver beating....
Did anyone see the article in today's (Monday) Star Tribune about the bus driver who was beaten and the video tape of it? It was in Growe's column. This is the same incident that sparked such a discussion on this list that the Strib did the feature article on bus drivers safety and beatings. Nothing more has been said on the list. Now it turns out that the video that was released to the press, caught the guy who did it, and shown the spotlight on the problem in general, has gotten the officer into some hot water. Apparently none of this would have happened if he didn't take it upon himself to deal with the situation. Probably would have been swept under the rug with all the other incidents that nobody knew about. But he released the evidence of the beating to the press without permission. A lot of good came of it this time, I don't know if that would always be the case, but I was wondering what all you folks think of this? The article is at; http://webserv5.startribune.com:80/stOnLine/cgi-bin/article?thisSlug=GROW26 Tom Holtzleiter King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Colvin Roy and Coldwater
I was recently made aware of a mailing by Sandy Colvin Roy, who is running for 12th ward of the city council. I can't speak to many of the issues brought up, and it is important to note that it may all be true, but I must make public a stated victory that seems quite misleading to me. In this letter it states that she, and this is in bold print, "Protected the bureau of mines land (Camp Coldwater) from parking ramp and other development through a conservation easement that guarantees open use of the area by the public." This is factually correct. (For those who don't know, Coldwater is at the southeast corner of Minneapolis) However while that easement guarantees no parking ramp, it still allows for a seven acre surface level parking lot. Either way, Coldwater gets paved over. Further that conservation easement would expire in 2049, leaving the area open to development after that date. That agreement allows the sale from the Federal Government to the State would remove existing Federal 106 and other protections currently in place for the Historic Camp Coldwater area, including Coldwater Springs. The State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO) has noted that the sale would also eliminate certain State protections and remove existing coordination between State agencies. Instead Coldwater Springs is set to be protected by a Memorandum of Agreement, but any provisions built into the agreement are virtually unenforceable. Violations would require civil lawsuits to resolve. This is unacceptable given the current level of Federal enforcement available. Once it is sold to the airport, the MAC, being the Local Governing Unit, would be able to kill any request or petition for an Environmental Assessment Worksheet for potentially threatening activities in the Historic Camp Coldwater, Coldwater Springs and its groundwater recharge area.. This is an unthinkable and unacceptable encumbrance on a Dakota and Iowa Sacred Site and the Birthplace of Minnesota. I understand that the deal with the MAC was made under duress, and the city council may have been doing the best it could, but I find it very unbecoming to advertise the area years later in bold print as "Protected" knowing all this. This is NOT my idea of protection. Coldwater is still in major danger of dewatering activities by MnDOT in their final step of construction of the Hwy 55 reroute, the 62/55 interchange. In fact, three separate hydrologists have come out with studies showing up to a 33% permanent decrease in water flow to the spring with current road designs. However, MnDOT who disputes all three hydrologists can't seem to produce ANY evidence to show they made ANY mistakes in their calculations, or why there would be "no impact" to Historic Camp Coldwater as they have promised. So far, the only letter that has been made public questioning MnDOT's unsubstantiated work has been from the Mayor. If Colvin Roy, or any other council members who feel that they *really* want to protect Coldwater, should make their statements publically known. They did it once, with stopping the airport dewatering plan. They need to do it again for the much longer known threat of highway 55. Throughout this entire sale process Coldwater has been the sacrificial lamb to other projects. It was sacrificed not only to make room a widened highway 55 to be built right next to a rail line. It was sacrificed to generate $6 million, for other (good) projects, like Mills Ruin Park, the Science Museum, and Minnesota Valley National Wildlife Refuge. It was sacrificed for maintenance sheds and a parking lot for the airport. Seems like possibly a tradeoff, but consider this; The National Congress of American Indians, representing well over 300 tribes, has declared the area to be a Sacred Site to multiple tribes (Resolution # PSC-99-127) The Iowa, and other tribes have consistently questioned why their religious rights are continued to be violated by this project (Resolution I-99-87). This has major religious significance, it's at the center of the Dakota Creation Story. It's also the Birthplace of the State of Minnesota, and it would serve as a connecting piece between Minnehaha park and Fort Snelling State Park, and it's the last spring of size in the county, all others having been previously destroyed. Why has the city and state decided not to act in good faith, instead coming up with stupid arguments of "Where were they 30 years ago, if it's so sacred?" completely disregarding the fact that the Federal Government had laws outlawing such statements for decades. (It was finally repealed by the freedom of religion act of 1978). Who honestly believes that after decades of literal violations by the government, anyone will be quick to publicly state what is closest to their hearts? They say there are no burial grounds there, yet in books like "Sketches of Min
[Mpls] Re:Crosstown Follies & Adding Lanes
>Whining about the damage done by auto traffic, >concrete, oil companies, destruction of the universe, etc. doesn't change history. No it doesn't change history, but that's not the point. I have a question for everyone. Where does it end? Or if you don't like that question, Where is all this construction going, and why are we so bent on endless miles of pavement? How will Minneapolis look in 50 or 100 years at the rate we are going? If you pull out a map of Minneapolis, you will see there is a road about every 800 feet. It's to the point now where we are paving over what we have left of our parks. Too many green things there I suppose. Dirty smelly highways are preferable to some, or at least as long as it's not in their back yard. So some say build more lanes, and pave over more land, that way people will have a better way, to get away, from all of that pavement when they drive home, to the greener suburbs. I can't be the only one who sees the irony here. I think this is the heart of the reason why we can't build our way out of this situation with bigger freeways. We need a better transportation system, and bigger freeways aren't it. Freeways are a money generating system to promote autos above all else so large corporations can make huge profits. And that's the truth. The documentation is all over the place. Don't believe me? Watch the movie "Roger and Me" (available at your local video store). This isn't about freedom to drive, or good of the community or getting from point A to point B. It's about using transportation needs as a pawn to making money, and it's at the cost of our environment. Go to http://www.highways.org/about/members.html It the highway users alliance website. You will find only companies who stand to profit with a website and an alliance that acts like its a grassroots community organization. Then go to the Science Museum (see today's Star Tribune) and check out the photo exhibit on global warming, showing melting permafrost, receding glaciers, dying forests and disintegrating ice shelves, and tell me I'm wrong. (God knows I want to be) Tom Holtzleiter King Field o: Minneapolis Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:[Mpls] Crosstown Follies & Adding Lanes Date sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:48:30 -0600 [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] I don't want anyone to believe that my suggestion for adding lanes is due to the fact that my commute to Minneapolis from Hastings is taking longer. There has been very little real job growth in both downtowns over the past 20 years. Yes, the increase has been huge, but as a percentage of the total vehicle miles traveled in the 25 largest metro areas across the US downtown commuter traffic is a pittance of the increase. The real problem -- or blessing of prosperity, if you see it that way -- has been the 'huger' growth in suburban jobs and housing. Intersuburban traffic is forced onto 50 year old freeways, making life miserable for everyone. Why not take $300 million from the LRT pot and bury 50% or more of the crosstown commons? The tunnel portion would be heavy traffic only with perhaps only three exits around 50th, 30th, and downtown. Then depress part of a double deck roadway for only light vehicle traffic -- vehicles with less than 3 ton axle weights. Lighter vehicles need less room to turn, stop, and accelerate. Lighter vehicles need much less than 18 feet of clearance and less structure, thereby reducing the heights and visual intrusion of every exit ramp, etc. Lighter weight roadways will last longer and be much cheaper to maintain -- they're far less costly to build and repair since they don't take the dynamic pounding of 18-wheelers. Noise would be substantially reduced, very little new ROW would be needed. All the current exits to 35 from city streets could be better landscaped, entrances could be shorter, steeper, faster, heavy trucks and buses would be limited to the tunnel. Some of the despicably ugly sound walls could likely removed or shortened or actually rebuilt as an amenity instead of an eyesore. Real aesthetics could be introduced. It's being done in Paris, London, Sydney, Boston, LA, etc. Oops -- I forgot, LRT construction has started, so forget that idea. Too controversial and expensive, I'd guess. Only makes the lives of several hundred thousand commuters every day better -- not to mention the local residents -- instead of the 15 to 20 thou who will be on the Hiawatha. Oh yes -- and let's not forget that federal transportation dollars forbid separated grade single purpose roadways. That wonderful attitude from Washington explains why many states routinely build privately financed toll roads to do just what I suggest here. Until and unless voters demand policy makers to perform real long range transportation planning -- untainted by politics and very narrow ideals -
[Mpls] Re: Crosstown 62 construction
Is there a reason this property is untouchable? I don't know the answer to that question, but it certainly should be. I for one am absolutely overjoyed that no more land is being taken for freeways. Is traffic a problem? So far, for my entire life the only real answer I have ever seen is build more freeways. Even when we see "alternatives" they are either not funded properly (like the bus system), or not really tried. Take LRT for example, the price keeps changing. In the end, how much will it cost? I don't know. I'm not sure if anyone else does either. But don't jump all over LRT unless your willing to look at the absolutely catastrophic cost of the current freeway system. It's really sad how the price is hidden all over. Do you think you have EVER seen a total cost? What is the land worth that it's on? What does the sewer system to drain rain water away cost? How much was labour? How much is materials for concrete and iron? How much was the design cost? How many homes and businesses destroyed to clear the path? How many parks paved over? How much did it subsidize sprawl (and all of sprawl's associated costs)? How much was all of your cars that you have personally owned, so you could even use the system? How much was their maintenance? Gas? Then multiply that times all the people who drive. Yep that must be added in the cost too, consider it you ticket price, oops, that would be the taxes for your tabs, and buying your vehicle. And this isn't even any of the "unforseen" costs. (pollution?, resulting sky-rocketing health problems?) The very modest rebuild of the 62 and 35 interchange is $100 million, without the cost of land acquisition and condemning homes and businesses. For that I am proud of the citys for not giving more land to the freeway system. I hope it's a new trend. It was designed as an INTERSTATE system, it sucks as a get to work system. In my opinion, it's built. The freeway folks got what they wanted. Now it's time to look at alternatives. If we don't then we really pay, with the most expensive transit system imaginable; Freeways. But hey, it's convenient. Tom Holtzleiter King Field PS It's true, the auto and oil industry conspired to eliminate public transit in order to clear the roads, and push the freeways on us, all so they could sell autos and the oil for them. They lost in the US supreme court on conspiracy charges. GM was fined $5,000. (No I didn't leave any zero's off) Go to the Library, it's WELL documented. On 17 Jan 01, at 20:14, Tim Bonham wrote: To: From: Tim Bonham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] Re: Crosstown 62 construction Date sent: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:14:58 -0600 [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] Regarding the Crosstown 62 construction & 35W issue, the problem there is not lack of traffic lanes (well, it is somewhat, but I agree with many that building more lanes just attracts more traffic), the biggest problem is the lousy criss-cross design! I travel 62 frequently, and when I just want to stay westbound on 62, I have to weave thru 2 lanes of 35W traffic that is trying to stay southbound on 35W, and having to weave by me to do so. Just separating the lanes for 62 & 35W, so that only those changing from 1 road to the other would have to switch lanes, would greatly reduce the bottleneck there, even without adding any new lanes. Traffic flows pretty well in only 2 lanes on most of 62, except around the 35W bottleneck. And as far as not taking out houses for this, every time I go there I notice a 2-block chunk of land just north of 62 that Minnegasco owns, which seems to be mainly a storage lot for pipe & other supplies. And it usually looks like a good portion of it pretty empty. It seems to me that some of that could be acquired by the DOT if needed, much cheaper & easier than tearing down houses nearby. Is there a reason this property is untouchable? Tim Bonham, Ward 12 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
