Re: [neonixie-l] Nixie Tic Tac Toe

[Adrian Godwin]

Wow.
The chessboard is epic.


On Sun, Apr 7, 2024 at 10:02 PM Mac Doktor  wrote:

> https://www.etsy.com/listing/253733048/nixie-oxo-board-diy-kit-round-in-7
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> https://www.astarcloseup.com
>
> "By the end of Chuck Statler's 'Rock Videos' of Devo we agreed that even
> if Devo did not take the stage it was still the best concert any of us
> had ever attended."—Kim Thayil (Soundgarden), 1995
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Adrian Godwin]

Here's another approach, not really a viable retrofit to a nixie unless an
extra electrode fixed to the glass might work ?

https://youtu.be/y2_dTEXptZQ?t=227


On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 9:12 PM Jeff Walton  wrote:

>
> Here is a closeup of the tube with a UV light source assisting...   395nM
> LEDs.  Waiting for samples to test 365nM.
>
> Jeff
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 8:43:48 PM UTC-6 Jeff Walton wrote:
>
>> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock
>> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the
>> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These
>> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are
>> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments
>> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go
>> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a
>> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any
>> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no
>> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by
>> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a
>> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has
>> had any luck with?
>>
>> Jeff
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0

[Adrian Godwin]

I think I have an unused teensy 3.6.
It may take some time to track it down but I'd happily swap it for a 4.1 if
that simplifies things for you.

On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 5:03 PM David Forbes  wrote:

> Here is the schematic of the SCTV rev E, which uses the Teensy 4.1.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 8:51 AM Max Di Noi  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your prompt reply David.
>>
>> I have already printed my board for a Teensy 3.6. I have no issues
>> soldering tiny smd components assuming that I can get an LTC22632! I may
>> design a small PCB to super-impose the Teensy 4.1 over the existing
>> footprint and layout. In doing so, I could add the dual DAC on this new
>> adapter board. I can see CS is connected to pin10 but where are CLK and SDI
>> of the LTC2632 connected? I don’t see them in the code. Yes, It would be
>> great if you could post diagram for SCTV-E for Teensy 4.1 please.
>>
>> Interesting that you are redesigning the transformer. I managed to
>> hand-wire mine and seems to work well. The 6.3V for the heater is the one
>> that I’m not too sure how to calibrate exactly, since the SMPS… It shines a
>> bit too bright at the moment and voltage drops to 2V, so that’s not healthy
>> for the heater filament. I can remove a few turns but not sure what is the
>> ‘exact’ RMS V I’m looking for given the spikes of the SMPS at 100Khz, I’ll
>> continue to experiment on that using a 6.2V 500mA lightbulb to avoid
>> damaging the CRT.
>>
>> Thanks again for updating the schematic when you get a chance, it’ll save
>> me so much time to experiment.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10 Jun 2023, at 16:41, David Forbes  wrote:
>>
>> Hi. The SCTV with the Teensy 4.0 uses an LTC2632 dual DAC. This uses SPI
>> to load the X and Y values. It's about half the update rate of the built-in
>> DACs in the previous Teensy 3.6, so I had to change the step size in the
>> drawing routines.
>> Unfortunately this chip is tiny, so it's hard to solder.
>> I am in the process of redesigning the transformer and circuit board to
>> be more friendly for kit and DIY use. I want to make the PC board with
>> through hole parts, since people enjoy soldering those together.
>> I will see if I can post the latest SCTV schematic diagram to my website
>> today. I've been traveling a lot lately.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 6:33 AM Max DN  wrote:
>>
>>> True, but the schematic is SCTV rev. C which is for Teensy 3.6. Does
>>> anyone have the schematic for using Teensy 4.1? Just designed a clock based
>>> on SCTV-rev and custom transformer but of course I have now realised that
>>> Teensy 3.6 is impossible to get...
>>>
>>> Il giorno sabato 11 marzo 2023 alle 18:41:05 UTC SD ha scritto:
>>>
 David Forbes has the schematic on his website, and the firmware on
 Github.  I did not see that Jörg was making kits, in fact he said he didn't
 want to make kits, but perhaps make a PCB available, so I do not know why
 people are asking for kits.

 On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 3:42:49 PM UTC-5 liam bartosiewicz wrote:

> The schematic and software would be good enough for me, personally
>
> On Mar 10, 2023, at 10:15 AM, Darrin Weiss  wrote:
>
> I also have some interest in a kit
>
>
>
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 10:00:11 AM UTC-5 Richard Arndt wrote:
>
>> Yep... put me down too for a Scope Clock kit of parts :-)  Making the
>> H/W & S/W open source would be cool too!
>>
>> I think selling PCB's & parts in kit form without enclosure, places
>> FCC requirements on the user to not cause RF interference.
>>
>> Isn't that how SparkFun and Adafruit can sell assembled PCBs without
>> FCC certification?
>>
>> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 9:19:56 AM UTC-5 Paul Andrews wrote:
>>
>>> Do you plan on publishing the software (on GitHub for example)?
>>>
>>> On Mar 8, 2023, at 5:36 PM, jörg  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> The tube is a RFT B7 S4-01
>>> It‘s from an EO174A Oscilloscope.
>>> Nice green and pretty good to focus and linearity to the edges.
>>> The tube and first version of PCB could be viewed at
>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zTyXJE2faXw
>>> 
>>>
>>> I do not plan a kit or selling like david forbes do.
>>> First of all, it is initially his design and software. Second, I do
>>> not have the will and time to go through all the regulations EU/Germany 
>>> has
>>> for selling such electronics.
>>> I could share the PCB if I order the next  batch, but it is not
>>> finished, yet.
>>> I plan to add 

Re: [neonixie-l] Common way to drive VFD displays in 2023?

[Adrian Godwin]

I found your other project now,

https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/W9504101AS1C172_Gerber_PCB_IV_27M_L_Rev_B_a90c6c3b.html

So I see that uses the PT6311 too.



On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 6:37 PM Adrian Godwin  wrote:

> Thanks, yes, that's also taking advantage of the double-ended tube design.
> You mention the ESP8266, but what VFD drivers are used ?
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 6:08 PM leo oel  wrote:
>
>> watch version on IV-27M
>>
>> https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/VFD_Clock_IV_27M_27_ESP8266_WiFi_universal_board_Right_Rev_B_c3d57047.html
>>
>> пятница, 9 июня 2023 г. в 20:02:31 UTC+3, Adrian Godwin:
>>
>>> I stash away parts for projects like that from time to time. Often not
>>> very well researched and just look suitable, pending me looking more
>>> carefully into the project.
>>>
>>> With that in minds, I've got a few IV-27M tubes, which interest me
>>> because they have signal wires at both ends, and I'm imagining a steampunk
>>> style mount that would take advantage of it.
>>>
>>> There are various ways I might drive these, but I have also picked up
>>> some PT6311 chips which have a flexible grid/segment driver system and an
>>> spi interface as well as some other flexible i/o. They'd still need a
>>> timekeeping chip of some sort.
>>>
>>> Getting the time from NTP seems attractive at the moment but there are
>>> plenty of alternatives. There's currently high availability of some very
>>> good ovened CTI OSC5A2B02 crystal oscillators for only $2-3 that seem
>>> to be good for about 4ms per year.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 2:24 AM Moses  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I happened to dig up a box of IV-21 tubes. Soviet made 8x 7-segment
>>>> digits in a single tube. Thinking this needs to be the next kit.
>>>>
>>>> What is a modern/common/best/CREATIVE way to drive these? The max6921
>>>> chips look common.. a bit heavy at $8 a pop on mouser! :/
>>>>
>>>> Filament and grid voltages are simple enough.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> -Moses
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/888ea452-1653-4d6b-a227-9e043b1468c9n%40googlegroups.com
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>>>> .
>>>>
>>> --
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>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Common way to drive VFD displays in 2023?

[Adrian Godwin]

Thanks, yes, that's also taking advantage of the double-ended tube design.
You mention the ESP8266, but what VFD drivers are used ?


On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 6:08 PM leo oel  wrote:

> watch version on IV-27M
>
> https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/VFD_Clock_IV_27M_27_ESP8266_WiFi_universal_board_Right_Rev_B_c3d57047.html
>
> пятница, 9 июня 2023 г. в 20:02:31 UTC+3, Adrian Godwin:
>
>> I stash away parts for projects like that from time to time. Often not
>> very well researched and just look suitable, pending me looking more
>> carefully into the project.
>>
>> With that in minds, I've got a few IV-27M tubes, which interest me
>> because they have signal wires at both ends, and I'm imagining a steampunk
>> style mount that would take advantage of it.
>>
>> There are various ways I might drive these, but I have also picked up
>> some PT6311 chips which have a flexible grid/segment driver system and an
>> spi interface as well as some other flexible i/o. They'd still need a
>> timekeeping chip of some sort.
>>
>> Getting the time from NTP seems attractive at the moment but there are
>> plenty of alternatives. There's currently high availability of some very
>> good ovened CTI OSC5A2B02 crystal oscillators for only $2-3 that seem to
>> be good for about 4ms per year.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 2:24 AM Moses  wrote:
>>
>>> I happened to dig up a box of IV-21 tubes. Soviet made 8x 7-segment
>>> digits in a single tube. Thinking this needs to be the next kit.
>>>
>>> What is a modern/common/best/CREATIVE way to drive these? The max6921
>>> chips look common.. a bit heavy at $8 a pop on mouser! :/
>>>
>>> Filament and grid voltages are simple enough.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> -Moses
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/888ea452-1653-4d6b-a227-9e043b1468c9n%40googlegroups.com
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>>> .
>>>
>> --
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> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Common way to drive VFD displays in 2023?

[Adrian Godwin]

I stash away parts for projects like that from time to time. Often not very
well researched and just look suitable, pending me looking more carefully
into the project.

With that in minds, I've got a few IV-27M tubes, which interest me because
they have signal wires at both ends, and I'm imagining a steampunk style
mount that would take advantage of it.

There are various ways I might drive these, but I have also picked up some
PT6311 chips which have a flexible grid/segment driver system and an spi
interface as well as some other flexible i/o. They'd still need a
timekeeping chip of some sort.

Getting the time from NTP seems attractive at the moment but there are
plenty of alternatives. There's currently high availability of some very
good ovened CTI OSC5A2B02 crystal oscillators for only $2-3 that seem to be
good for about 4ms per year.

On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 2:24 AM Moses  wrote:

> I happened to dig up a box of IV-21 tubes. Soviet made 8x 7-segment digits
> in a single tube. Thinking this needs to be the next kit.
>
> What is a modern/common/best/CREATIVE way to drive these? The max6921
> chips look common.. a bit heavy at $8 a pop on mouser! :/
>
> Filament and grid voltages are simple enough.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Regards,
> -Moses
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "neonixie-l" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: unpoison a IN-1

[Adrian Godwin]

When I wanted a higher voltage supply to refresh some tubes, I found an
electrophoresis supply on ebay (Shandon Vokam 400-100). It provides up to
400V at 100mA with voltage/current metering and did a good job for me. I
think it cost me about £40.


On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 9:19 PM Benoit Tourret 
wrote:

> I don't know how to rise the intensity...
> I wish I had a laboratory DC power supply, but mine stops at 30V.
> so I put a  NCH6300HV to raise the voltage. If I can adjust the voltage, I
> cannot adjust anything else.
> however I added a voltmeter and ammeter to check what I'm sending to the
> tube. Do you know if there is an adjustable power supply that can be used
> for our beloved tubes?
> So, I regulate the voltage and I check that I do not exceed the desired
> values.
>
> should I change the 32K resistor between the PS and the tube? could a
> potentiometer be used?
>
> So I did see an improvement. but some need to be "heated". I of course
> doesn't speak of temperature, but they need 10 to 20 seconds to get their
> full glow, a bit like a neon tube with an old starter.
> They are 52 years old now and never been used.
>
> Le vendredi 21 avril 2023 à 16:20:59 UTC+2, gregebert a écrit :
>
>> The IN-1 datasheet says 2.5mA typical operating current, so you should
>> try cleaning the other 3 tubes at just under 3mA. The other 7 tubes might
>> clean-up on their own at normal current if the usage is balanced.
>>
>> So did you see some improvement ?
>>
>> On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 12:14:05 AM UTC-7 Benoit Tourret wrote:
>>
>>> I ran each tube with 180V 2mA / two hours, turning each plate for 2
>>> minutes.
>>>
>>> on 10 tubes:
>>>
>>> 7 are OK
>>> 3 are not perfect.
>>>
>>> I will wait to be able to lit them all together.
>>>
>>>
>>> Le jeudi 20 avril 2023 à 01:27:40 UTC+2, gregebert a écrit :
>>>
 I couldn't resist asking google Bard this question: Are IN-1 nixie
 tubes reliable ?
 Well, here's the answer. Feel free to laugh.love the part about the
 filaments. Geez, maybe that's why I had so much trouble with mine ?

 IN-1 nixie tubes are generally reliable, but they can fail over time.
 The most common failure mode is a leak in the vacuum tube. This can happen
 due to a number of factors, including manufacturing defects, physical
 damage, or exposure to extreme temperatures.

 If a leak develops, the tube will slowly fill with air and the
 filaments will eventually burn out. This can happen over a period of months
 or even years. To prevent leaks, it is important to store IN-1 nixie tubes
 in a cool, dry place and to avoid dropping or banging them.

 Another potential failure mode is a failure of the heater filament.
 This can happen due to a number of factors, including overheating,
 overvoltage, or physical damage. If the heater filament fails, the tube
 will not light up.

 To prevent heater filament failures, it is important to use a regulated
 power supply and to avoid exceeding the maximum operating voltage.

 On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 2:03:54 PM UTC-7 gregebert wrote:

> I never had an IN-1 run long enough to get poisoned. Mine developed
> internal shorts, resulting in 2 numerals glowing at the same time.
> From what I've heard, nixie degradation increases exponentially with
> current, so you want to stay as close as possible to normal operating
> current. Try running the worst digit continuously for a few hours at 20%
> higher current, and see if that helps. I was (briefly) drawn to the IN-1
> over 10 years ago because of the large size for the low cost; I bought a
> case of 25 for around 40USD including shipping. Only a few survive today
> that weren't dissected or tortured in a microwave oven (yeah, pretty
> hilarious but kinda toxic because of the bakelite).
>
> A few of the IN-18's in my clock have shown signs of poisoning even
> though I run a cleansing routine for 1 hour every night. This is
> most-visible on the first day of the month for the months digit, and it 
> can
> take a few days to recover. This clock has 14 tubes; kinda ridiculous but
> it looks impressive. It was inspired by the movie "Tomorrowland", which 
> has
> a brief scene with two 6-digit IN-18 clocks. I'm certain one of our
> neonixie members is the creator of that clock (that was an invitation for
> you to take a well-deserved bow...).
>
> Tubes that run 0-9 during the day need no cleansing (unit seconds,
> unit minutes, unit hours). Tubes the run 0-5 during the day are cleansed 
> by
> running 6-9 (tens seconds, tens minutes). Tubes that are static, or near
> static (tens hours, month, day, year) run 0-9 for cleansing.
>
> The static tubes, notably the 4-digit year, show very little signs of
> poisoning because I have swapped them around to put the
> most-vulnerable-to-poisoning tubes where 

Re: [neonixie-l] Need advice on a new scope...

[Adrian Godwin]

I went though a series of digital scopes before I found one I was really
happy with. All were second-hand.

I had a 16500A, later upgraded to a 16500B. I didn't ever get the LAN
option. On the positive side, it's a proper logic analyser with loads of
inputs, clock and state triggering :  the mixed-signal scopes don't usually
have enough inputs to deal with an Z80/68000 era bus. But the scope part is
400MS/s, 6 bits and a bit clunky. The whole thing is huge and noisy.

I bought a cheap Owon with a TN screen. It was awful. Got rid of it.
I bought an early Rigol. Didn't like the very small screen. Sold it.

I bought an Agilent DSO7014A then upgraded it for free to MSO7054A spec
(mixed signal, 500MHz, 4GS/s). It's great and even though it's obsolete now
I will be using it for a long time. The 5000 and 6000 series are similar
(see reviews by Mike's Electric Stuff) and can have a VGA screen attached
for a larger display.

I also have a Hantek similar to the one Richard describes ut an MSO. It's
not in the class of the Agilent as you might expect at 1/10 the price, and
the digital inputs in particular are poor (no trigger) but it's useful as a
portable. My feeling is that of the chinese scopes, Siglent and Rigol are
the best of the bunch but I'm going mostly on hearsay - the one I owned is
not representative of current models.

I think it's worth making cheap mistakes  to learn what you want, and worth
spending a lot more if you use a scope every day as I do. And it took me 6
months to properly shift to using the Agilent from an analog Tek so do be
patient and don't assume it will be instantly familiar if you have a long
history with analog scopes.

The earliest ones in this list really just added one-off waveform capture.
But the Agilent tries hard to be 'as good' as an analog scope along with
all the digital bells and whistles. It's not an easy thing to do but
there's a reason the frontrunners eventually stopped making analog scopes
at all. However, the early ones don't match up so although I didn't buy
new, I did learn what would be disappointing and used only as an
alternative.

On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 1:39 PM Richard Scales 
wrote:

> At the risk of being thrown out of the group - for all fixing and related
> activities I got a £140 dual channel 'Hantek' scope from Aliexpress and it
> has been rock solid for the 5 years I've had it.
>
> The current equivalent would be something like this:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001845215723.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.89.79a739d44I0AEE_pvid=8e4801c6-632d-48d6-946b-80ea3ee2baae_p4p_detail=20230421053633684959269571028384012_exp_id=8e4801c6-632d-48d6-946b-80ea3ee2baae-44_npi=3%40dis%21GBP%21287.48%21155.23%21%21%21%21%21%402145279016820805933988046d0715%211217827964326%21sea%21UK%21720874442=0ARjNYpxmHuE_pvid=20230421053633684959269571028384012_9_pvid=20230421053633684959269571028384012_9
>
> There have been occasions when I wished for just one more channel but I
> got over it!
>
>
>  - Richard
>
>
> On Friday, 21 April 2023 at 13:18:56 UTC+1 Joe Croft wrote:
>
>> My Siglent 1202X-E is a real nice scope for a digital scope. 200Mhz, 2
>> channels.
>>
>> -joe
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 10:44 PM martin martin  wrote:
>>
>>> My Tek 2236 is nearly 30 moons old and no longer stays on for more than
>>> a few minutes.  I am sure it's fixable, but on the other hand maybe time
>>> for a new digital!
>>>
>>> What do you guys suggest for general use and of course clock fixing?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: AC VFD Filament Driver Question

[Adrian Godwin]

I agree 100kHz seems high, but I don't see any downside if you can drive
that OK. I also see no need for a filter : the only effect I can imagine is
either too low (certainly not at 100k) or possibly a beat frequency with
the multiplexing which i'd avoid carefully (or zero beat i.e. in sync, but
with some thought about average brightness).

Interested to hear the result as the usual approach is a floating
transformer inverter but I'd considered the h-bridge and intend to try it.
I'm not convinced about the dc bias from your simulation though : i'd
expect the dc to be simply half the drive waveforms (since they're positive
only). I'd also expect to be able to change the DC level by adjusting the
h-bridge drive proportions but it would have to be symmetrical, which
requires a dead period.


On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 9:24 AM ZY  wrote:

> I'm playing around a bit more with some active filter designs so it won't
> be load dependent, but 100khz seems a bit high for this application. Going
> a lower frequency would require I select a different/larger transformer
> since my current would be too high.
> On Saturday, 15 April 2023 at 03:26:46 UTC-4 ZY wrote:
>
>> I wanted to try to avoid having a AC line in my design if possible. I did
>> have to break out my old ECE notes, and I designed a different filter.
>> Turns out my original RC filter requires a much larger resistor to limit
>> the primary side current, but that raises input resistance too high for my
>> 40 ohm loads.
>>
>> Using a different filter I had some more success:
>>
>> https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?ctz=CQAgjCDsB0AcYCYCsBTAtLEAGaBOWuYALFrgGwDMFRSSkSZIuuISrWr6YYAUAG7hE4Mh24IQRTB3FgscudjiKpipP0HiKZTGJDJG08PIU4pSitGJgkuBGSQUkBSLgqqeAcw3DRQsLexsT28tHSESDkieAHdvSXAA+KweACdWBB0M9J0AjhIeMDIWBBJwLIiylRx5WWY6+oaWMGhSAixato6zfzIiESJuJCxIWoRIEDQcYiwKSHbIMgQqWDkRiamSWfnF5bkqRWYYiQV-cT6iBPFkgSIKcRK8u70sKuPwQMjoNViKwseZERBH5PP4SJ4IF5BLy3e6lGF6SBXIESXqXbJo5IAYxRF0QmHOGL0lghxlJ8gQ6HG1RGuBGiGYFFsGUIyKQWVOrAWGKOdEYePR-OSsV5lRAIkyUiOHPiDwkktiun0elKSqFyukDHV3OFXI54u1Yshes1HLV+v59j5WTVsplpUFPAANjjRWyJR8WsZMJMWgwiCMEORbrBqBQhMlnb9yqjBYpjCVFNMtmAFksKCssJQgmkRfzc7ljqlDe7zQX8mlLaLK6bCwB7QIQURIay0ViKC6GDgUHj1tiN56SNwIL5xvt6Nvd3vvcZgRwpthsKbjxstSDwZA8IA
>>
>> However the problem is the output voltage is somewhat determined by the
>> load. So if a filament burns out it can cause a cascade failure on the
>> other filaments as the voltage rises. I guess monitoring the AC line would
>> be possible but this complicates my design a bit, and I'd need a monitor
>> that could do negative currents/voltages if my bias is not high enough. If
>> such an IC exists I'd be interested, but I don't really have access to a
>> FPGA if that's what it takes.
>>
>> It also seems it's easy to hit resonance with particular filter LC
>> values, boosting the voltage higher which feels a bit dangerous for the
>> filaments.
>>
>> Maybe just not having the filter would be the safest approach here.
>> However I'm not at all experienced in filter design especially when there
>> is a low impedance load involved, so maybe there's a better approach that
>> I'm not using.
>>
>> On Saturday, 15 April 2023 at 02:03:39 UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
>>
>>> I use a mains-powered 2.5VAC center-tapped transformer for my NIMO
>>> clock, and apply a DC bias to the center-tap. Basically the same as your
>>> approach, but not running at 100kHz. The DC bias comes from a DAC (with an
>>> OP-amp buffer), so I can use software to control the offset, rather than a
>>> pot. No need for LC filters, etc.
>>>
>>> The transformer is rated at 3amps, even though 6 NIMO tubes only require
>>> 1.2amps max. Also, each tube has it's own fuse and series resistor to
>>> reduce the inrush current. The software-controlled DAC is also necessary so
>>> I can have the FPGA monitor analog signals to check the fuses, filaments,
>>> and resistors, and that has to be timed correctly to the AC line and the
>>> offset has to be different for making these measurements than for regular
>>> operation. It was probably overkill, but I enjoyed the design challenge.
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 2:25:57 PM UTC-7 ZY wrote:
>>>
 Hello. I'm working on a driver for my VFD filaments. Say I need a
 Vfilament of 1.6V, and a current of 40mA, such as with a small VFD.

 So far I have a square wave driver set up, basically for my two
 filament pins I can alternate the two pins between 1.6 and 0 with some H
 bridge at maybe 100KHz. If I connect the filament load to this, it's the
 equivalent of using a 3.2V Vpp square wave biased at 0v. See Sim Link 1. I
 put two 40 ohm resistors as a stand in for 2 VFD tubes filaments in
 parallel.

 However, I'd like to add some sort of smoothing and DC bias. I was
 thinking of using a small transformer, such as this one:
 https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/445/750315240-3096542.pdf
 Applying a 100KHz RC low pass filter to the output, and approximating
 the 

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Neonixie Spam Messages

[Adrian Godwin]

There is a suggestion that google are placing more and more stringent
requirements on email senders in order to push users onto a small number of
providers such as google themselves and make it more difficult to run your
own mailservers.

I did see a number of mails from mailing lists in the spam folder, and
marked them 'not spam'. I'm not seeing many at the moment, just a lot of
'offers' which very clearly ARE spam.

If you see non-spam there, look to see where it's come from.


On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 7:04 PM Audrey  wrote:

> For more*
>
> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023, 2:04 PM Audrey  wrote:
>
>> Or maybe it's just the recent widespread access to GPT models allowing
>> forore convincing spam...
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023, 1:57 PM Robert G. Schaffrath <
>> robert.schaffr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think it is just Group but with Google overall. I use Gmail and
>>> I noticed a large uptick in legitimate messages appearing in the SPAM
>>> folder. I used to have to check it once every two days or so but now it is
>>> flagging many things I consider innocuous. As some others posts have noted,
>>> there is an election coming up...
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 4:16:28 AM UTC-4 Grahame wrote:
>>>
 Hi

 Just the one pending this morning..

 No overly eager moderator - my memory is that we have deleted 4 posts
 in the last couple of years - two from a Russian tube seller seeking to
 bypass sanctions and two from someone advertising gold.

 As Nick said, there doesn't appear to be any moderator controls on spam
 delete/pending so we are just going to have to live with this problem for
 now. I appears there are two levels of control by google - one is they
 delete the message outright - the second is it goes into a pending folder
 for the moderators to approve.

 I will watch the post contents more closely and see if there is a
 reason why posts are being moved to pending.

 Grahame (and Nick and Nick)
 On 07/04/2023 04:52, Terry S wrote:

 Welcome to Google's new AI system. But don't worry, AI is harmless.

 On Thursday, April 6, 2023 at 1:08:53 PM UTC-5 Moses wrote:

> Grahame,
>
> Last several months some of my posts are just deleted.. I started the
> habit of copy pasting them to notepad before posting because of this. You
> can see this in several threads.. a message is replaced by "Message has
> been deleted"
> It's not just me either, as I've had folks sent me an email direct
> about a topic and stating that their posted messages were deleted as well.
>
> I can't figure it out, as I have reposted the same message the next
> day and it is fine. I just figured it was an overly active moderator,
> computer or otherwise. Either way, a bit annoying, especially when you
> don't know what triggered it.
>
> Regards,
> -Moses
>
> On Thursday, April 6, 2023 at 6:49:42 AM UTC-7 Grahame wrote:
>
>> Hi All
>>
>> For some reason Google is identifying a lot more messages as spam and
>> putting them in the moderator's pending folder. We might have one or
>> two
>> a month but more recently it can be several a day. I just released
>> three
>> messages from yesterday. Another odd thing, is that at least one
>> message
>> that had been pending came through by email to me, the selection I
>> have
>> set for myself, but then it doesn't appear in the thread on the group
>> webpage.
>>
>> I am trying to remember to look at the pending folder everyday to
>> release held messages. Please PM me if you are seeing a problem with
>> any
>> particular posting.
>>
>> Grahame (and Nick and Nick)
>>
>> Moderators
>>
>> --
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Re: [neonixie-l] OT: New 'Secret Life Of Components" series from Tim Hunkin

[Adrian Godwin]

I love Tim's work and have been following these recent series avidly. He
also runs an amusement arcade on a pier in Southwold, and has some machines
in a shop in Holborn, London.
His cartoons go back even further, though - I first came across him in a
cartoon series in the Observer magazine called 'The rudiments of wisdom' in
the 80s.

On Sat, Apr 1, 2023 at 6:18 AM gregebert  wrote:

> For those of you who like tinkering with gizmos, there's a 3rd series from
> Tim that's being posted on youtube:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za-GyTt729M
>
> For those of you unfamiliar with Tim, he did a series of shows for TV,
> similarly named as *The Secret Life of Machines* about 30 years ago.
> Despite many of those machines being defunct now, the shows are very
> informative and have the right touch of witty British humor.
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Any factories in the world still actively mass producing nixie tubes?

[Adrian Godwin]

I think Dalibor is more than just a hobby and art producer. He has quite
the factory there. But there are no customers left consuming volume
quantities.


On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 3:08 PM Christian Riise Wagner <
c.riisewag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> From what I've read a couple of places, it seems the last mass produced
> nixies were made in the early 90s in the then Soviet Union and production
> ceased around the dissolution of the Union.
>
> There could be some I'm not aware of, but it's not something I've heard of
> in the 6 years I've been following the Nixie world.
>
> søndag den 19. februar 2023 kl. 15.16.25 UTC+1 skrev Miles Thatch:
>
>> I know of Dalibor Farny on youtube who makes novelty tubes for various
>> art installations and novelty hardware for clients and art projects. I'm
>> talking more like a factory producing   on a larger scale some of the
>> standard tubes formats we have come to know ?
>
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> .
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: EEV E727G - what's that?

[Adrian Godwin]

These things are similar tech but for pixels rather than 7-segment :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AclwH64eAkU

On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 12:06 AM gregebert  wrote:

> I'm guessing that CRT-style manufacturing, where phosphor is deposited on
> the tube-face, was well-established technology in the 1960's due to massive
> production of TV's. On the other hand, VFDs were emerging technology
> because the much smaller size required tighter manufacturing tolerances,
> and depositing phosphor onto a conducting anode was still being perfected.
> Yes, this was done for magic-eye tubes, but they had a very short lifespan,
> maybe a few hundred hours. I'm sure the chemical composition of VFD
> phosphors was also under development; they are much brighter than magic
> eyes and operate at a lower voltage.
>
> On Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at 3:22:24 PM UTC-8 marcin wrote:
>
>> Technically this device could be quite trivial. Simpler, and less
>> demanding tolerance than Nimo. Just one flood gun with grids controlling
>> the segments (as reported by riffuchs from
>> https://riffuchs.livejournal.com/153725.html), plus some internal
>> stencil-style screening between the 'segments'. Still VFD does the same
>> only so much easier. So, why? Longer lifespan? Brighter? Fulfilling
>> insane-price requirement for a military order?
>>
>> Pity the price, I love absurd technology. Anyway, seems that such device
>> was sold on ebay de in 2014 for 'pennies' (radiokot.ru
>> ),
>> but I can barely understand what they were actually talking about there,
>> even with google translate. I wonder if it was the tube(s) from riffuchs
>> - riffuchs seems to be from Germany.
>>
>> Marcin
>>
>>
>> On 8/02/2023 02:27, Olivier wrote:
>>
>> I found this old page 
>> It shows the same pictures as the ad! Strange.
>>
>> Olivier
>>
>> On Tuesday, 7 February 2023 at 6:36:26 pm UTC+8 marcin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> have you seen this EEV E727G contraption on ebay
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/115697380857 ?
>>> I have never even heard about it, nor can find any info about it.
>>>
>>> Marcin
>>>
>> --
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>>
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> .
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Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie tubes...

[Adrian Godwin]

The examples I've read 'feel' very plagiarised. They read like those web
pages put out there to attract google hits and, thereby, accidental
advertising views - very much as thoughj ripped from wikipedia or
advertising copy. At best, I would think they pull a bunch of paragraphs
from different sources.

There is apparently research happening to analyses these articles (with
more 'AI' !) to try to catch undergrad essays created using the bots. It
will be interesting to try those on those search engine targets .. maybe
google will then demote them in favour of original material.

On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 7:42 PM gregebert  wrote:

> I'm having a hard time grasping how a system could store and index so much
> information locally. That in itself is daunting due to the sheer volume of
> data. The other thing I'm curious about is how much of the response is
> plagiarized/reworded from existing information, versus true AI (collated
> from various sources, analyzed for consistency, and then cherry-picked for
> the best info without being redundant or missing important tidbits).
>
> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 11:03:01 AM UTC-8 wyager wrote:
>
>> All of GPT-3's world-knowledge is embedded into its parameters. Whatever
>> it tells you is the equivalent of a human telling you something "from
>> memory". It takes only a few seconds for it to respond to a prompt.
>>
>> Connecting AIs to external data sources is, I imagine, under active
>> research, but none of the current LLMs use external data.
>>
>> > On Jan 24, 2023, at 13:24, gregebert  wrote:
>> >
>> > John - How long did it take for 'HAL' to compose the response ? That
>> would give a lot of clues about how far-and-wide it searches for info. I'm
>> guessing it took at least several minutes.
>> >
>>
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Re: [RacalDana] [neonixie-l] Nixies in Stanley Kubrick's "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)

[Adrian Godwin]

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/marconiins_counterfrequency_meter_tf.html

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Fwd: [RacalDana] [neonixie-l] Nixies in Stanley Kubrick's "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)

[Adrian Godwin]

And from the Racal list :

-- Forwarded message -
From: george edmonds via groups.io 
Date: Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [RacalDana] [neonixie-l] Nixies in Stanley Kubrick's "A
Clockwork Orange" (1971)
To: 


Hi Adrian

Looks to me like a Marconi Instruments TF1417, the date is about correct
for it to be so.

George G6HIG Dover UK
On Wednesday, 18 January 2023, 23:35:19 GMT, Adrian Godwin <
artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:



I think the smaller of these counters is a Racal 835. Does anyone recognise
the larger one ?

-- Forwarded message -

Subject: [neonixie-l] Nixies in Stanley Kubrick's "A Clockwork Orange"
(1971)
To: neonixie-l 


During the "reprogramming" of Alex the droog (a "volunteer" from prison, a
convicted murderer), the Government experiments with a new drug and
treatment to undo his ultraviolent tendencies.  Here are a few Nixie photos
from that experiment about 1hr14mins or so into the movie.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Nixies in Stanley Kubrick's "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)

[Adrian Godwin]

I think the smaller one is a Racal
https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/nAsAAOSwt7FjBehE/s-l1600.jpg

The larger might be an Advance.


On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 7:37 PM Audrey  wrote:

> I noticed these aswell, surely it's HP gear.
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, 2:20 PM Jon D.  wrote:
>
>> During the "reprogramming" of Alex the droog (a "volunteer" from prison,
>> a convicted murderer), the Government experiments with a new drug and
>> treatment to undo his ultraviolent tendencies.  Here are a few Nixie photos
>> from that experiment about 1hr14mins or so into the movie.
>>
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> .
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[neonixie-l] flicker-flame lamps

[Adrian Godwin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyYjnV99wfM

Anyone able to answer how these lamps work and why they're so unstable ?
The answer by 'Butanik' sounds plausible but IANAP (I am not a physicist).

-adrian

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Re: Re: [neonixie-l] Bubble Lights and other Christmas Lights of interest

[Adrian Godwin]

Interesting to read about these old-school suppliers.
In the UK, the supplier of all things cheap, tacky and seasonal (as well as
miscellaneous electrical the rest of the year) was Pifco, with products
usually made in Hong Kong. Did they reach other parts of the world or were
they just a brit phenomenom ?


On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 1:15 AM Mac Doktor  wrote:

>
> On Dec 7, 2022, at 6:42 PM, Terry Kennedy  wrote:
>
> I posted about these some 8 years ago.
>
>
> Long before I joined this group. I missed out on a lot but Im trying to
> make up for it.
>
> *I worked in the factory (in a different division) that made those in the
> 70’s - Masden Industries on 23rd St. in North Bergen, NJ. They made the
> glass enclosure and the contents, and then sold the sealed units to a
> customer (Beacon Electric, somewhere in New England, IIRC) who provided the
> bases and lamps and did the packaging and sale.*
>
> *I have some that are 3’ (yep, FEET) tall.*
>
> "Mr. Bubble", as Rich likes to call himself, has made some very long
> custom tubes but I doubt that he's made any quite that long.
>
> *The chemistry was quite simple* - the ball of material in the bottom was
> a mixture of sugar and sodium metaborate. The liquid was methylene
> chloride. The solid would outgas at low temperatures (even from the heat of
> a hand) and release bubbles which would float upward and eventually be
> reabsorbed in the liquid. The trick with the giant ones was to wind a
> spiral of thin heating wire around them to keep the bubbles from
> disappearing partway up.*
>
> Yeah. I wonder how they did it with those Wurlitzer jukeboxes? Those tubes
> are pretty long.
>
> *The most annoying thing about this factory was that it tended to explode
> a lot - the machines that did the glass sealing were all 1-offs and old,
> and the flame would back up into the main gas line, and kaboom.*
>
> Oops.
>
>
>- *If these are made today, I’m sure the formula is different - the
>one I posted would run afoul of safety regulations these days.*
>
> I have no clue as to what else can be used for a fast bubbling action.
> Rich's oil tubes have rapeseed oil in them, among other secret ingredients.
> The nucleator is tiny pieces of pumice.
>
> Telsen Electric Company in Britain made tubes that were like Lava Lamps,
> in that the bubbles were colored and the rest of the fluid was clear.
> Shooting Stars are like Lava Lamps in reverse, clear bubbles in a colored
> liquid. They use freon as one of the liquids. That's hard to get these
> days. The nucleator looks like flakes of mica.
>
> The problem with the Telsen tubes is the same as a real Lava Lamp. They
> get too hot at the top and bubbles just collect there. They have to be
> shaken periodically to make some of the fluid drop down again. Rich
> experimented with this but it was just too unreliable. He gifted me one in
> return for a very large order.
>
>
> Anyway, that factory produced several tractor trailers full per week
> during the busy season. There were various dyes to color the liquid.
>
>
> Getting dyes that remain stable when heated or in direct sunlight is
> another problem. I've had some that did that and they were replaced under
> lifetime warranty.
>
> Also, you will often see vintage tubes that are only half full or even
> empty of liquid even though they're still sealed. This is due to
> microscopic cracks in the glass, probably from thermal cycling. Rich uses
> borosilicate.
>
>
> BTW, if anyone is considering purchasing some bubble lights this season
> avoid Christopher Radko like the plague. His bubble likes are SO colorful
> when they're tuned off. When they're turned on, not so much. The blackbody
> radiation curve limits the colors possible with incandescent lamps. White,
> yellow and pink bases look yellowish-white. Red looks orange. Green is a
> bit dark and blue is almost a ghost. And the blue *tube* is so dark you
> can't even see the bubbles.
>
> Also, if you see a set with NOMA artwork on it for twice the price of a
> no-name Chinese set, buy the Chinese set. Unless you really love that NOMA
> looking box. And always buy two sets for when a bulb blows. If you have a
> variac handy dial them down 10%. That *will* help. It's just not
> Christmas around here without variacs and 12V transformers all around the
> stairwell.
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> https://www.astarcloseup.com
>
> Edward R. Murrow: “Who owns the patent on this vaccine?”
> Dr. Jonas Salk: “Well, the people, I would say. There is no patent. Could
> you patent the sun?”—*See It Now*, 12 April 1955
>
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> 

Re: [neonixie-l] Any interest in IV-9 numitron clock kit?

[Adrian Godwin]

Are they these bubble lights ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTDtyFaAZy8


On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 1:07 PM Mike Mitchell  wrote:

>
>> Terry, I remember those bubble lights at grandparents farm.  I had
>> started to look into buying some many years ago,  but never did...
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: 14-digit nixie calculator project with clock function

[Adrian Godwin]

I used to work on Canon machines for my father's business in the '70s. They
were mostly 12 or 14 digit.
I wonder why they used so many digits in an era when they were so expensive
? 8 or maybe 10 seemed to be enough in the LED era.


On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 9:39 AM Dave ZL3FJ <2c...@silverbears.nz> wrote:

> Good work-very space age looking.
>
> But here’s a Burroughs original - all 16 digits of it….. from the 1960s,
> IIRC.
>
> DaveB, NZ
>
>
>
> *From:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *newxito
> *Sent:* Monday, October 03, 2022 20:59
> *To:* neonixie-l
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Re: 14-digit nixie calculator project with
> clock function
>
>
>
> No worries, this is a strictly limited edition, this thing is serial
> number 1 of 1 :-)
> I cheated a little bit; I just modified the original case and connected
> the display part with a metal tube.
>
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> .
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: 14-digit nixie calculator project with clock function

[Adrian Godwin]

I will be interested to see how that works out.

I have an old (aka obsolete) but fairly large resin printer, but the
materials I've used so far aren't very attractive as outer cases -
featureless grey or off-white. FDM is also poor : if you can make a feature
of the flaws, as with the shimmer effect of silk PLA then they can look
amazing, but even that would quickly tire if everything was made of it, and
the toolpath isn't always optimised for appearance.


On Sun, Oct 2, 2022 at 12:15 PM Bill Notfaded  wrote:

> I bought a new large format resin printer for making cases.
> https://www.elegoo.com/products/elegoo-jupiter-resin-3d-printer-6k-mono-msla-3d-printer
>
> I haven't started using it yet but I waited for months after buying it on
> Kickstarter at a big discount.
>
> Bill
>
> On Sat, Oct 1, 2022, 10:16 AM Michail Wilson  wrote:
>
>> Nice.
>>
>>
>>
>> Display both time and date.
>>
>>
>>
>> As for a display case, an easy choice might be one of those acrylic cases
>> for a baseball bat.  
>>
>>
>>
>> Michail Wilson
>>
>> 206-920-6312
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com  *On
>> Behalf Of *newxito
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 1, 2022 9:54 AM
>> *To:* neonixie-l 
>> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Re: 14-digit nixie calculator project with
>> clock function
>>
>>
>>
>> I still had some controllers and keyboards lying around so I decided to
>> make an IN-12A version of the calculator… 14 digits, of course :-)
>>
>> The display/driver board was easy to design but the big challenge now is
>> to create a case for this thing… first prototype is printing...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] VFD Filament Current

[Adrian Godwin]

Using DC for the filament means there is more accelerating voltage at one
end than the other and results in a noticeable difference in brightness.

I have wondered if it could be solved without a transformer by driving the
filament with a h-bridge.

On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 9:02 AM Richard Scales 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> I have just managed to acquire a set of these and would ideally like to
> drive them the best possible way.
> I had initially though about a 5V for the filament and then 24V for the
> cathodes and grid.
> The clock would only have segments activated when someone is nearby - the
> segments will not be left on all of the time.
> Now I read about A/C supply to the filaments and wonder if I should be
> going that way.
> Would anyone be able to post their findings and/or suggest the right way
> forward?
> [image: VFDsnip.JPG]
>
> I just noted that the picture above shows the connection for the grid (pin
> 9 on H1) connected to 5V and not the 24V as used on the cathodes.
> The more I think about it - the less clear this all becomes!
> I need to get it right in my head before I go breaking something and then
> I would like to get the best possible result via reasonably straight
> forward means.
> Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction and/or share
> proven drive methods?
> - Richard
>
>
> On Monday, 16 September 2019 at 22:23:47 UTC+1 gregebert wrote:
>
>> Yes! That's exactly what happens. The current through the center-tap is
>> the sum of the anode (segment) current and the grid current. And the peak
>> current through the filament wires is actually *greater* than just the
>> current to heat the filaments.
>>
>>
>> *Tomasz* - As you found out, those VFDs draw a lot of current. I have a
>> future design for a 6-tube ILC1-1/8 (smaller tubes than the ILC1-1/7) and
>> I'm just going to use a high-current filament transformer with the
>> center-tap at GND. Grids will NOT be pure DC; closer to full-wave rectified
>> around 15-16V. Segment anodes will be pure DC around 36-40V with
>> current-regulators and non-multiplexed.
>>
>> I actually have an Op-amp summer+ADC+Software to monitor the current thru
>> the center-rap  on my NIMO clock to determine the tube health, though it's
>> orders of magnitude smaller (30uA per tube).
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Gloat and request

[Adrian Godwin]

On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 11:00 PM gregebert  wrote:

> Nice find. How much of the DMM seems to be working ?
>
>
It seems pretty good except for the batteries and some mechanical  parts
around the stand. It's reading OK on DCV and ohms, haven't gone through all
of it.
Someone on eevblog has found me some essentials from the manual

It was a bit expensive (I prefer parts-only units and their prices!) but
I'd seen a digital AVO (not the LCD ones) years ago and never seen another
so ..

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Gloat and request

[Adrian Godwin]

Thanks, yes it is the right sort of thing (I actually need some with PCB
spills on both sides, though that isn't obvious from my photo). Oddly, ebay
seems to find similar ones but I can't see anything unique in the name that
specifies the form.

On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 2:36 PM J Forbes  wrote:

> I spent only a little time looking. This is the type of thing you're
> looking for?
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/323737493500?
>
> I don't suggest buying this one, but it might lead you to what you want?
>
>
> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 5:53:05 AM UTC-7 artgod...@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I recently acquired the below beauty. It's an AVO DA114 (I do have most
>> of the case but the inside is more photogenic). The tubes are labelled ITT
>> but I can't see the actual number easily. Nothing exceptional though.
>>
>> What I do need - if it's not too far off topic - is a new switch. It uses
>> those modular ones common in radios and testgear of the era, where some
>> parts are independent and others are linked into banks.  I can doubtless
>> find something on ebay but I'm struggling for the moment : not sure what to
>> search for. Terms like 'modular pushbutton' don't give me any matches.
>>
>> Anybody know of a source ? I only need a simple DPDT independent latching
>> module, the power switch.
>>
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> .
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Re: [neonixie-l] Label Makers

[Adrian Godwin]

I have used some of the Dymo products (not the old embossing type, though
they're popular for their retro charm). They work well if you get the
paper-based labels but the plastic labels are poor on all but plastic
surfaces. If you fold them in half to mark a wire they unfold and unstick
themselves, and the same can happen on cardboard boxes.

The latest versions also have DRM to force you to buy their refills. I
think this has now been broken but not necessarily well  enough to buy
compatible products - more to allow you to refill the cartridge.

I will try to get some paper labels for my older machine but if I replace
it I will probably look at Brother and Casio.


On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 8:38 AM 'Grahame' via neonixie-l <
neonixie-l@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I have a Brother PTE300VP - cost was £50 in the UK by waiting for an
> "offer" to appear. Here's a tear down of a label cartridge and short run
> through the capabilities by Big Clive
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2SRePOg4VM
>
> Grahame
> On 08/06/2022 00:32, Mac Doktor wrote:
>
> My collection of Nixie tubes, magic eyes and everything else you can name.
> has grown to the point where I need to get serious about storage. One
> aspect of this is labelling things. I'm tired of writing on boxes with a
> Sharpie.
>
> I really like the capabilities of this Epson series:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/LABELWORKS-LW-PX300-Industrial-Label-Maker/dp/B08JQMFZ6F
>
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JQMJ7RD
>
>
> I know there's cheaper stuff out there and the profit is in selling tape
> cartridges (*à la* printer ink) but this thing prints on heat-shrink
> tubing.
>
> So what are you guys using?
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> https://www.astarcloseup.com
>
> “...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, it
> said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close up.”—Carl
> Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", *Cosmos*, 1980
>
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Neon signs

[Adrian Godwin]

In the region of 30 dead ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBeSKL9zVro=3s


On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 8:04 PM Mac Doktor  wrote:

>
> On May 12, 2022, at 1:17 PM, gregebert  wrote:
>
> >  I was really good at processing. 8D
>
> And you survived to tell about it. Bombarding is pretty dangerous, and
> it's the main reason why I decided not to get into neon art
>
>
> If you're not comfortable with something *don't do it.* That advice is
> for *everyone*. I was lucky to have a very talented, experienced and
> safety conscious instructor who took every precaution. The processing bench
> was set up in such a way as to keep body parts as *far* away as possible.
> No nails or screws anywhere. The mains switch was well away from the bench.
>
>
> the other being toxics such as mercury and who knows what other nasty
> things come out of phosphor-coated tubes being heated.
>
>
> The real danger is broken tubing (this includes fluorescent lighting).
> Fabrication can be done safely. We worked in a large, well ventilated area
> and he amount of mercury required is very small, a tiny drop. The transfer
> from the bottle to the special tabulation was done as rapidly as possible,
> immediately spliced and tipped over into the finished tubing.
>
> As for some of the toxic phosphors, let's just say that you should keep an
> open cut well away from them. We threw broken lead glass in one barrel,
> everything phosphor coated in another. I can't remember how the latter was
> recycled but it was definitely hazardous waste. As for the lead glass,
> well, it has lead in it.
>
>
> A couple was recently killed (electrocuted) while making woodburning art
> with a microwave oven transformer.
>
>
> Unfortunately the body count is higher than that. I don't know the number
> of accidental deaths so far but it's *incredibly* stupid and
> irresponsible on the part of the people explaining how to do this on
> YouTube. It may have something to do with the fact that they don't
> appreciate the danger, either. FAIL.
>
> I wonder how many people have gotten zapped by the capacitor while
> attempting to remove the transformer. Then there's holding a wire up to a
> Tesla coil. Also on YouTube. And if you ever build a Jacob's Ladder
> remember that the rods can get quite warm so when you reach out to adjust
> the angle...well...
>
>
> I'm happy to say I've only been tingled with high voltage once over the
> past 10+ years, and it was very low current (less than 1mA) because of the
> circuit design.
>
>
> The one for me is HeNe laser tube power supplies.
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> Male voice: "That accident over in Red Sector L destroyed another 63
> personnel, giving them a total of 242 lost to our 195. Keep up the good
> work and prevent accidents. This shift is concluded."—*THX 1138*
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] What kind of display is this?

[Adrian Godwin]

So it's a thermionic character-generator ROM ?

On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:31 PM Nicholas Stock  wrote:

> It's a 'monoscope'reads off letters on the end plate...
>
> http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/CK1414.pdf
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 8:27 AM jb-electronics <
> webmas...@jb-electronics.de> wrote:
>
>> I should probably know, but how does this generate the characters, and
>> where can I read them off?
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/354047743434
>>
>> Cheers
>> Jens
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Noon to be dekatron spinner owner

[Adrian Godwin]

>
>
> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 11:45:22 AM UTC-4 Robert G. Schaffrath wrote:
>
>> "Magic Eye" tubes are some of my earliest memories of interesting
>> displays when I was a child. My maternal grandparents had a Dumont TV
>> (didn't everyone LOL?) that used a 6AL7 eye tube for tuning the built in AM
>> receiver.
>
>
I never saw one used as a tuning indicator though I messed with a lot of
discarded valve radios in my youth. But I do remember the magic eye on my
father's Telefunken tape recorder, used for the recording level. It was a
linear tube with a central rectangular green section that grew and shrank.




>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Your vote please...

[Adrian Godwin]

On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 3:59 PM Adrian Pardini  wrote:

> > Restore, then turn it into a clock (I'm thinking of something like
> Oscistudio)
>

Seconded. It would be good to have it fully working but you'll never use
it. Maybe add a PIR-based auto shutoff as was described here recently to
preserve the tube life.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Neons for all!

[Adrian Godwin]

I've got a VFD clock to build sometime. It's a multidigit tube with wires
at both ends. I thought I'd extend and strengthen the wires to support the
glass by soldering them into fine brass tubing as used by modelmakers.
It'll probably turn out a mess because of all the different radii but might
be OK on simple neons, though brass probably doesn't match the Dalibor
bases too well. Maybe nickel plated brass.

On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 1:45 PM Richard Scales 
wrote:

> I got so disappointed at how extended neon leads on colons looked - I
> ended up making a tiny PCB which sits inside the glass tube with a metal
> base to match Dalibors tubes.
> I used to spend ages with enamel copper wire and such like - not any more!
> - Richard
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] OT: Secret Life of Components

[Adrian Godwin]

Hunkin is a delight. The man's like Heath-Robinson or Rube Goldberg.

I've been a fan since his cartoon series in The Observer magazine, 'The
rudiments of wisdom'. He also has an arcade on a pier in Southwold,
Suffolk, and another in Holborn, London starring some of his amazing and
amusing machines.  See timhunkin.com

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 5:20 PM gregebert  wrote:

> Tim Hunkin posted a new episode last night on sensors.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNnP84tTSFY
>
> He also has earlier episodes posted as well. For those who are unfamiliar
> with Tim Hunkin, he did a UK series back in the late 1980's called 'The
> Secret Life of Machines' , which goes into the inner workings of household
> items, their history, etc in an educational and humorous way.
>
> While most of us already know this material, the way Tim goes thru it is
> very entertaining and I am certain no matter how much you think you already
> know, you will still learn something. Enjoy.
>
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Is it just me?

[Adrian Godwin]

I assume it's to try to generate a panic to make you buy it rather than
scam you for multiple postages. But it often causes me to avoid them
because I want more than one, or want to come back for more if I like it.

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 8:56 PM Nick Andrews  wrote:

> Sellers on Amazon have been doing this lately too.  I ordered a 2" rod of
> UHMW plastic for $12+ and said they only had one.  Next day they had more,
> but at $18.  Bastiches.  Another seller had more at the lower price so I
> ordered some from them.
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 6:45 PM Michail Wilson  wrote:
>
>> I always check the price history to see when and how much.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know of sellers selling something for a normal price, then after I buy
>> and get it, they change their auction to a completely different cheaper
>> item so it appears to new people that the cheap item sold for a higher
>> amount.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michail Wilson
>>
>> 206-920-6312
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com  *On
>> Behalf Of *Bartek Ogryz
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 1:39 PM
>> *To:* neonixie-l 
>> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Is it just me?
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you know how eastern sellers (Ukrainians, Russians, etc) are uplifting
>> the tubes prices? It's a very simple trick :)
>>
>> I had bought many IV-25 about a year ago for funny money. It was a real
>> catch! After a few days, the seller had raised the price 10x. From that
>> moment on, every next person, who had found that auction, could think, that
>> so many tubes had sold for that high price :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Tubes prices increased twice last year.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bartek.
>>
>> poniedziałek, 24 stycznia 2022 o 20:40:32 UTC+1 nickja...@gmail.com
>> napisał(a):
>>
>> That's just crazy talk.  Glad I picked up some IN-9 and IN-13 a while
>> back, but wish I'd bought a lot more.  I think IN-9 should be about $5-6ea
>> and the 13s what, $10?  I wish, not any more!  I think it's awesome that
>> some folks are being inventive and making things, but it really sucks when
>> it ruins the market for specific items which haven't been made in decades.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 4:39 PM Mac Doktor  wrote:
>>
>> Some blathering...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 23, 2022, at 12:44 PM, Bill Notfaded  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps for some of us collectors we now sit on a gold mine
>>
>>
>>
>> Everything I've bought in the last five years seems to have turned into a
>> good to excellent investment. IN-13s have of course gone up in price at a
>> steady pace but over the last year or so IN-9s have absolutely
>> *skyrocketed*. For example:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/223870481127
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That's $14.36 apiece including shipping but not taxes—for a lot of 25! If
>> you click on the number of lots sold you'll see that last February the BIN
>> was only $179. o_O
>>
>>
>>
>> Ridiculous asking prices are nothing new on eBay but I've bought from
>> this seller in the past and he/she/it was reasonable then.
>>
>>
>>
>> The pandemic is the major factor in all of this but we all know that
>> stocks of Soviet surplus are dwindling as well. Also, a certain Chinese
>> "VU" meter with two IN-9s suddenly turned up everywhere in the last year.
>> The typical price is something like $109. Could that be factor #3?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Forget about hoarding IN-14s, I should have borrowed some money and
>> bought every IN-9 in sight a year ago. I would have at least doubled my
>> money by Christmas.  8D
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
>> "The Mac Doctor"
>>
>> "There is no Main Street anymore except at Disneyland—and try and buy a
>> gun there"—Hank Hill
>>
>>
>>
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>> .
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Re: [neonixie-l] Where to get PCBs from, some companies blocked by PayPal and credit card issuers......

[Adrian Godwin]

On Sat, Dec 25, 2021 at 2:20 AM ZY  wrote:

>
> Also I recall in the past when they were BatchPCB they would clean the
> board edges. They don't do that anymore, meaning I have to individually
> dremel and clean the breaking points of each pcb, which is an annoyance to
> do safely if you have a bunch of small pcbs and don't want to breath in pcb
> dust (it's also itchy if you get it on your hands).
>

I usually clip them off with cutters rather than sand them. Blunts or even
snaps the cutters though so don't use the fine ones!

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Re: [neonixie-l] The quinn of numitrons IV-13... detronized!

[Adrian Godwin]

I'm no photographer, but I have the same or similar  problem trying to take
photos of LED installations. I get a dim background and overexposed leds,
consequently no colours. I think the problem is that the autoexposure
adjusts for the average level, which is correct for neither on a
high-contrast scene. Our eyes can cope with this by correctly exposing the
segments and making the unlit parts invisible - which may not be what you
want when illustrating, but works well for reading the values whilst
obscuring the structure.

The answer is possibly to run them at low brightness and with plenty of
incident light, so there is not so much difference in brightness between
self-lit and incidently-lit parts.

On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 11:16 AM Bartek Ogryz 
wrote:

> Hi everyone!
> I would like to proudly share my latest catch: Apollo DA2500 numitron
> tube. It's the biggest numitron I know, the digit is 25mm high - 5mm more,
> than IV-13.
> It's fully operational, but unfortunatelly my camera is unable to make a
> nice looking photo of the segments glowing. Last photo is a comparison to
> IV-13.
>
> Bartek.
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] OT: Epic fives

[Adrian Godwin]

It always surprised me that the inverted 2 is used. The cost saving must be
tiny, given that only the character itself is re-used (once it's had
supports added it's probably unique) and it's only 1 of 10 characters.

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 7:36 AM Marcin Adamski 
wrote:

> nah, they were the precursors of the new trend! 
>
> On 19/10/2021 17:30, Audrey wrote:
>
> The reason the soviets did that is cost saving. That looks cool though.
>
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 2:30 AM Marcin Adamski 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have just received reminder to purchase my ski pass for next season
>> and I really enjoy the shape of fives on it (see the picture). I always
>> thought that there was a reason for the Russians to use the inverted 5...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Marcin
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: new giant tubes from Dalibor

[Adrian Godwin]

Is there anybody making VFDs in small quantities ?
I'm wondering if it's possible to make the anodes and pins on PCB material
and just the grids and cathodes using the techniques from Nixies.

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Re: [neonixie-l] VFD filament drive

[Adrian Godwin]

I mean to try this on a device I'm building, but won't an H-bridge driver
do ?

It will provide an average potential of half the drive voltage giving the
ability to place a grid or anode at a small negative potential, and if the
filament requirement is less than the easy 5V it can be reduced using PWM
by floating the H-bridge. Higher or lower average acceleration voltages can
be accommodated by setting both ends of the filament to 0 or 5 during the
off-period
.


On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 10:51 PM Dekatron42 
wrote:

> There is a nice article in NutsVolts magazine:
> http://www.nutsvolts.com/media-files/Forum-Articles/QA_201110.pdf where a
> powerful driver is shown, needs a small transformer but seems to be well
> designed with equations for calculations of the transformer.
>
> /Martin
>
> On Friday, 20 August 2021 at 21:37:46 UTC+2 Hannah Mishin wrote:
>
>> Theres a section on filament driving in my blog here:
>>
>> https://hannahmishin.com/blog/2017/4/30/russian-tri-color-vfd-indicator-clock
>>
>> *Hannah Mishin*
>> *  She/her/hers*
>> 
>>
>> *hannahmishin.com* 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 1:48 PM Toby Thain 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-08-20 12:58 p.m., Paul Andrews wrote:
>>> > I'm designing a clock for DT-1704 tubes and am stumbling at the
>>> filament
>>> > drive stage. They want 1.6V. I want to power it from 5VDC. ...
>>> >
>>>
>>> FWIW I've used LM2575 1A adjustable step down for DC filament voltages
>>> in that range.
>>>
>>> --Toby
>>>
>>>
>>> > ...
>>> >
>>> > So I would appreciate any suggestions for what direction I should take
>>> > here. I have too many options and no clear criteria.
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>>
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>>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] It lives again. Pic No. 1

[Adrian Godwin]

You don't like it laced with waxed cotton ?


On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 12:15 PM Joe Croft  wrote:

> How I love point to point wiring! PCBs can never replace the beauty of
> equipment like that!
>
> -joe
>
> On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 18:14 -0700, Instrument Resources of America wrote:
>
> For those of you who asked. Pic No 1 of the 'hand wired underside of the
>
> Beckman 7360 EPUT  meter'. For the younger folks here. Every single
>
> thing you see in this pic and subsequent ones to follow was put there by
>
> a human being. All of the parts and components, all of the wires, every
>
> single solder connection done by human hands.  No automation what so
>
> ever. No pick and place machines, no wave soldering of P.C. boards, no
>
> automated wire wrapping etc.  ALL hand placed, hand wired, and hand
>
> soldered.  By the way, all of our home entertainment electronics up to
>
> about the late fifties, early sixties was done just like this, all
>
> radios, televisions, stereos, phonographs, were all done by hand.  Any
>
> questions just ask and I'll try to answer as best as I can.  Who here
>
> can spot the small handful of solid state devices in this pic? Old
>
> timers, need not reply to this question!!  More to follow.   Ira.
>
>
>
> On 7/18/2021 11:47 AM, Instrument Resources of America wrote:
>
> It lives again.  Beckman Berkeley model 7360 Events Per Unit Time
>
> (E.P.U.T.) meter and timer, that I recently restored to operational
>
> condition. See the photo.   One of those fun projects that I enjoy
>
> doing, every now and then, is to restore vintage test gear.  This time
>
> it contained neon, and thought the group might like to see it.  100%
>
> vacuum tube circuitry, plus neon displays. Hope all enjoy, comments
>
> welcome. Now where is that vintage Tektronix 514D oscilloscope??.
>
> Off in the distance I see an HP 522 frequency counter, with vacuum
>
> tubes and similar neon displays.   Ira.
>
>
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Today's Catch!

[Adrian Godwin]

The one to the right has a decimal point, which would suggest voltage. But
it has a lot of precision for something that old.
Maybe it's a digital readout for something like a machine tool or a
microscope positioning system ? The 'space-age' format might be appropriate
for a something like an electron microscope.

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 1:41 PM Bill Notfaded  wrote:

> Nice find Martin!  I have a collection of Eldorado counters... they're
> really nice.  What's the one on the right with seemingly no markings?  I'm
> curious what that thing is?
>
> Bill
>
> On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 4:08:11 AM UTC-7 joenixie wrote:
>
>> Nice Catch! Makes me wish I wasn't a hermit ;)
>>
>> -joe
>>
>> On Sun, 2021-06-20 at 16:36 -0700, martin martin wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I helped a friend clean out his garage today.  Some of these items have
>> been stored for more than 30 years!
>> The Eldorado counter is still right on the money. * And, I have the
>> original manual too.
>>
>> The HP 3478A is nice to have around also!  The large display to the right
>> is unknown.
>>
>> Happy Sunday!
>>
>> -martin
>>
>> --
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Today's Catch!

[Adrian Godwin]

That unit on the right is amazing. What is it ? A DVM ?



On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 12:43 AM tntmod54321  wrote:

> absolutely gorgeous, nice finds
>
> On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 7:36 PM martin martin  wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I helped a friend clean out his garage today.  Some of these items have
>> been stored for more than 30 years!
>> The Eldorado counter is still right on the money. * And, I have the
>> original manual too.
>>
>> The HP 3478A is nice to have around also!  The large display to the right
>> is unknown.
>>
>> Happy Sunday!
>>
>> -martin
>>
>> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
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[neonixie-l] CRT or magic eye ?

[Adrian Godwin]

What's this device ? It's more like a CRT than a VFD but is it really a
magic eye ?

3 grids (or perhaps 2 grids and a shoot-through anode) seems too
complicated for just a lamp.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203331148618


>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Another new nixie maker

[Adrian Godwin]

He's posted a manufacturing process video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv01SKiYJz4

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 2:17 PM Bill Notfaded  wrote:

> And it has a QR code inside the tube!
>
> Bill
>
> On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 1:40:03 PM UTC-7 Dekatron42 wrote:
>
>> Nice!
>>
>> I really like that he has a proper pin base, looks somewhat like it comes
>> from a Compactron.
>>
>> /Martin
>>
>> On Monday, 7 June 2021 at 18:39:35 UTC+2 alex nolan wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It looks like another person is developing their own nixie tubes:
>>> https://twitter.com/SaduduH/status/1401888977037119490. Pretty
>>> impressive stuff!
>>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: I bit the bullet bought an NL-7094

[Adrian Godwin]

Electrophoresis supplies are pretty handy.
I got a smallish one by Shandon that limits at up to 400V and 100mA. It
worked a treat to fix a nixie I had with cathode poisoning.


On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 4:04 PM Bill Notfaded  wrote:

> It's Paul Andrews I was referring to... I'm not at home right now but the
> power supply is the one that stands vertical and you can turn the voltage
> up into hundreds of volts with knobs... it's dark red.  I bought two of
> them.  They were for Electrophoresis.
>
> Bill
> On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 7:53:23 AM UTC-7 Bill Notfaded wrote:
>
>> I loved that movie btw "Bite The Bullet" with  Gene Hackman
>> , Candice Bergen
>> , and James Coburn
>> .   I finally broke down and
>> bought one tube I've never had before an NL-7094.  I've collected some
>> NL-8091's but the bigger brother I've never had before.  The datasheet
>> recommended operating conditions says to use a 9.1K resistor with 200VDC.
>> It's ionizing voltage is the regular 170VDC.  I was going to use my power
>> supply like Paul has that can generate any voltage I want to turn it up
>> slowly.  Should I just use say maybe a 10k anode resistor to start out with
>> it?  I was thinking turn up the voltage slowly with a the resistor on the
>> anode and see where the cathodes energize and lite up at?  I want to be
>> really careful with this tube.  I'm getting it with the original National
>> Electronics box with the big RED READOUT circle in the middle even!  So
>> excited.
>>
>> Bill
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie porn

[Adrian Godwin]

On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 12:19 AM Mac Doktor  wrote:

>
>
> Yep, yep, yep. The only console video game I ever owned is a real oddball,
> Atari Breakout. It's 100% just like the actual arcade game plus some other
> modes. I say "is" because I still have it in the original box with all
> parts and documents. I have no idea if it still works but the pot and
> switches need to be replaced.
>
>
I have a few pinball machines. All with panaplex - style or plasma matrix
displays except one - that's got electromechanical score displays.


> I have a well illustrated tube-era Electronics For Beginners book where
> all of the illustrations have cartoon electrons (with arms and legs like an
> electric company mascot) literally running around schematics that were
> drawn in orthogonal perspective and, IIRC, 3D extruded. I only mention this
> book because out of everything I scarfed up at hamfests it's one my
> hamfest/arcade game buddy is the most envious of. 8D
>
> 
>
Didn't Tektronix have some cartoons like that in their service manuals ?

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie porn

[Adrian Godwin]

Hah. You have to have very specialised interests. I often think nobody will
know what do with my stuff but I just offered a old HP floppy/hard drive
(that I'd been sitting on long after the HP85 computer had gone) to the
VintHP group and I was amazed to find they nearly bit my arm off for it.

On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 6:09 PM Nick Andrews  wrote:

> Standing by for Adrian's "free to a loving home" listing of surplus cool
> stuff...
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 11:38 AM Adrian Godwin 
> wrote:
>
>> The way I understood it, it was their whole stash of them. They wanted to
>> get Fran to do something cool with them rather than keep them in their
>> cupboard. An attitude I can well understand as my piles of coolstuff grow
>> ever bigger (no, I don't have any giant Nixies :)
>>
>> Fran has a big interest in old display technologies. You'll see some
>> sweet stuff in her youtube catalog.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 2:19 PM blkadder  wrote:
>>
>>> I am truly floored.  Someone out there must have a gigantic horde of
>>> 7971 tubes to send someone 14 of these giants.  Well, I am subscribed to
>>> the channel now.  I am looking forward to see what Fran comes up with  for
>>> this amazing collection of tubes.  I wonder if the anonymous sender is in
>>> this group?
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 8:42:31 AM UTC-4 artgod...@googlemail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fran got some nixies ..
>>>>
>>>> https://youtu.be/Mi18Fw5R9Oo?t=852
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>> .
>>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie porn

[Adrian Godwin]

The way I understood it, it was their whole stash of them. They wanted to
get Fran to do something cool with them rather than keep them in their
cupboard. An attitude I can well understand as my piles of coolstuff grow
ever bigger (no, I don't have any giant Nixies :)

Fran has a big interest in old display technologies. You'll see some sweet
stuff in her youtube catalog.


On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 2:19 PM blkadder  wrote:

> I am truly floored.  Someone out there must have a gigantic horde of 7971
> tubes to send someone 14 of these giants.  Well, I am subscribed to the
> channel now.  I am looking forward to see what Fran comes up with  for this
> amazing collection of tubes.  I wonder if the anonymous sender is in this
> group?
>
> On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 8:42:31 AM UTC-4 artgod...@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Fran got some nixies ..
>>
>> https://youtu.be/Mi18Fw5R9Oo?t=852
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] OT: How to convert composite video into TTL?

[Adrian Godwin]

That's very encouraging - if it can go far enough to sync it's probably
usable.

By all means try adding some capacitance to the timing caps. Just turn it
off quickly if it refuses to oscillate - it might be warming up the line
driver transistor. You shouldn't need to adjust the vertical stuff at all.

There may be a width control - either a normal preset or an inductor. Try
getting more width with that.

TTL can be as low as 2.4V but is probably more like 4, and the entire
signal is video. Composite is only 1V, and the sync makes up the bottom
0.3V so you will certinaly be short of contrast. An amplifier is possible
but it's amplifying to 60V or so already so you can probably get away with
just tweaking the input circuit.


On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 1:41 AM jb-electronics 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I got it working... somewhat! I hooked the Raspberry Pi's NTSC composite
> up to the LM1881 sync separator, and after fiddling with the horizontal
> hold it snapped into place. A few problems:
>
>- As mentioned before, the screen coverage is a bit poor (lots of
>space to the left and right).
>- The brightness is rather low (what is full brightness at TTL?
>Probably 5V? Composite maxes out way below that, so maybe I should hook up
>an amplifier?)
>
> So here is the schematic of a very similar module:
> http://oz1db.dk/hp/omnivision_man_lp06xx_rev0_0611.pdf . Can't I just
> change the timing capacitors for the horizontal and vertical sync? (I.e.
> mess with R17 at U1 and R35 at U2)? Based on what Adrian wrote below it
> seems it might be possible, within reason? Since it is already working
> (kind of, limited screen coverage) I probably don't ahve to tweak much?
>
> So if anybody can help on the brightness issue as well as on the frequency
> modification I would be very grateful!
> Best wishes
> Jens
>
> On 2021-04-11 10:41 p.m., Adrian Godwin wrote:
>
> The line oscillator has to run close to the line frequency and is then
> phase-locked to it by the horizontal hold mechanism. If the oscillator is
> tuned for 19kHz it's a big stretch to get it to sync to a 15kHz input
> signal.
>
> Yes, you might be able to modify some components to slow it down, or even
> just change the horizontal preset frequency to get it closer  but that line
> oscillator is the most complex thing in as monochrome monitor. It generates
> a linear ramp for the horizontal coils and is also wound up with line
> output transformer which generates the high voltage for the tube. I guess
> this makes sense as during retrace the line coils are getting a big pulse
> to shove the spot to the other side of the screen. But drastically changing
> the line frequency is likely to have an effect on the line linearity and
> the EHT voltage.
>
> I'm not saying don't try it - it would be very educational, though best if
> you can get hold of a schematic. But a lot easier to get hold of an NTSC
> monitor, I think. The people who maintain arcade machines have been
> scraping up all the large colour monitors recently but I doubt they'd have
> much use for a small monochrome.
>
> If the stored energy in the line coils can be dumped into the line output
> transformer at the right phase of the cycle, it's saving a lot of power
> that would otherwise require a separate circuit. In the old days. the more
> use you could get out of any one vacuum tube the better, and the style
> persisted until multisync monitors needed to be more flexible (and even the
> simple earlier ones of those had more complex LOPTs to deal with the
> variation).
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 3:22 AM jb-electronics <
> webmas...@jb-electronics.de> wrote:
>
>> Still new to the whole composite video thing---could you clarify what is
>> the stretch? Do you think the driving electronics might not work at the
>> lower NTSC frequency? Or is there a mechanical impediment, like the
>> windings of the CRT's yoke? Thank you!
>>
>> Jens
>>
>> On 2021-04-11 7:19 p.m., Adrian Godwin wrote:
>>
>> It sounds a bit of a stretch - 15kHz to 19kHz. You could try running the
>> monitor without an input signal and adjusting horizontal frequency (if
>> there is one) to see what range it can manage.
>>
>> Another possibility is to fix it in software by creating a custom monitor
>> signal. Some information is at
>>
>> https://github.com/raspberrypi/documentation/blob/master/configuration/config-txt/video.md
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 10:51 PM jb-electronics <
>> webmas...@jb-electronics.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank  you! I think it should be possible to modify the horizontal and
>>> vertical deflection circuitry on the board to make it a proper NTSC
>>&

Re: [neonixie-l] OT: How to convert composite video into TTL?

[Adrian Godwin]

No, they often have a Z modulation input and many have a TV sync, so you'd
only need to add a vertical scan. But tube depth is a problem. Green isn't,
though !

On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 2:44 PM jb-electronics 
wrote:

> It's a good idea, but these scope tubes are too deep and don't have a
> composite input usually (but x/y deflection setup). I am trying to build a
> luggable computer (think Osborne I).
>
> Jens
>
> On 2021-04-13 9:05 p.m., Adrian Godwin wrote:
>
> Could you use an old 'scope ? Or would it be too big ?
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 10:57 PM jb-electronics <
> webmas...@jb-electronics.de> wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I am looking for a 5"-6" monochrome CRT, preferable green or amber, with
>> composite video input. If anybody has one for sale, please let me know!
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Jens
>>
>> On 2021-04-13 8:41 a.m., 'John Rehwinkel' via neonixie-l wrote:
>> >> I'm not saying don't try it - it would be very educational, though
>> best if you can get hold of a schematic. But a lot easier to get hold of an
>> NTSC monitor, I think. The people who maintain arcade machines have been
>> scraping up all the large colour monitors recently but I doubt they'd have
>> much use for a small monochrome.
>> > Small monochrome monitors used to be really common as viewfinders,
>> security monitors, etc.  They're less so today, but they're still out
>> there.  Let me know if you have a need for one.
>> >
>> > - John
>> >
>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] best method for pin cleaning?

[Adrian Godwin]

There's a type of nail file - actually a buffer, I think - which has a
similar very fine abrasive. There are no visible grains of abrasive and the
file appears to be a smooth pink or white (according to the grade)
material. They're sometimes used by model rail enthusiasts to clean the
track without creating deep scratches. Other track cleaning products might
also be good.

On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 1:22 AM alb.001 alb.001 
wrote:

> I use a 3M diamond abrasive plastic film which you can get in finess down
> to 1 micron.  I use a 10 Micron one for very fine gentle sanding of things
> like nixie pins.  It is slow but effective.   Coarser versions would work
> faster.
>
> Pharma Phil
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Nicholas Stock 
> Date: April 12, 2021 at 11:00 PM
>
> Martin, i'd use some emory board (nail files) to lightly sand the rust off
> of them.done that with a few tubes myself with no issues.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Nick
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 12, 2021, at 19:47, martin martin  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I had a few Burroughs B5092s sitting around and thought I would build a
> little 6 shooter from PV Electronics.  I like this model since you can
> create your clock using any tubes.  You just have to wire them up
> multiplexed.
> Anyway, I used NOS ceramic sockets but the pins on the Nix's are very
> dirty and corroded.
> How can I safely clean them?
>
> Thanks!
>
> martin
>
>
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> .
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] OT: How to convert composite video into TTL?

[Adrian Godwin]

Could you use an old 'scope ? Or would it be too big ?

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 10:57 PM jb-electronics 
wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> I am looking for a 5"-6" monochrome CRT, preferable green or amber, with
> composite video input. If anybody has one for sale, please let me know!
>
> Best wishes
> Jens
>
> On 2021-04-13 8:41 a.m., 'John Rehwinkel' via neonixie-l wrote:
> >> I'm not saying don't try it - it would be very educational, though best
> if you can get hold of a schematic. But a lot easier to get hold of an NTSC
> monitor, I think. The people who maintain arcade machines have been
> scraping up all the large colour monitors recently but I doubt they'd have
> much use for a small monochrome.
> > Small monochrome monitors used to be really common as viewfinders,
> security monitors, etc.  They're less so today, but they're still out
> there.  Let me know if you have a need for one.
> >
> > - John
> >
>
> --
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> "neonixie-l" group.
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> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] OT: How to convert composite video into TTL?

[Adrian Godwin]

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 1:34 PM Robert G. Schaffrath <
robert.schaffr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> locking on). NTSC (Never Twice the Same Color) was a bit of an issue with
> needing Color and Hue controls that adjusted the TV's
>

To complete the trio : SECAM is Something Essential Contrary to the
American Method, and PAL is Perfection At Last.

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Re: [neonixie-l] OT: How to convert composite video into TTL?

[Adrian Godwin]

The line oscillator has to run close to the line frequency and is then
phase-locked to it by the horizontal hold mechanism. If the oscillator is
tuned for 19kHz it's a big stretch to get it to sync to a 15kHz input
signal.

Yes, you might be able to modify some components to slow it down, or even
just change the horizontal preset frequency to get it closer  but that line
oscillator is the most complex thing in as monochrome monitor. It generates
a linear ramp for the horizontal coils and is also wound up with line
output transformer which generates the high voltage for the tube. I guess
this makes sense as during retrace the line coils are getting a big pulse
to shove the spot to the other side of the screen. But drastically changing
the line frequency is likely to have an effect on the line linearity and
the EHT voltage.

I'm not saying don't try it - it would be very educational, though best if
you can get hold of a schematic. But a lot easier to get hold of an NTSC
monitor, I think. The people who maintain arcade machines have been
scraping up all the large colour monitors recently but I doubt they'd have
much use for a small monochrome.

If the stored energy in the line coils can be dumped into the line output
transformer at the right phase of the cycle, it's saving a lot of power
that would otherwise require a separate circuit. In the old days. the more
use you could get out of any one vacuum tube the better, and the style
persisted until multisync monitors needed to be more flexible (and even the
simple earlier ones of those had more complex LOPTs to deal with the
variation).


On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 3:22 AM jb-electronics 
wrote:

> Still new to the whole composite video thing---could you clarify what is
> the stretch? Do you think the driving electronics might not work at the
> lower NTSC frequency? Or is there a mechanical impediment, like the
> windings of the CRT's yoke? Thank you!
>
> Jens
>
> On 2021-04-11 7:19 p.m., Adrian Godwin wrote:
>
> It sounds a bit of a stretch - 15kHz to 19kHz. You could try running the
> monitor without an input signal and adjusting horizontal frequency (if
> there is one) to see what range it can manage.
>
> Another possibility is to fix it in software by creating a custom monitor
> signal. Some information is at
>
> https://github.com/raspberrypi/documentation/blob/master/configuration/config-txt/video.md
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 10:51 PM jb-electronics <
> webmas...@jb-electronics.de> wrote:
>
>> Thank  you! I think it should be possible to modify the horizontal and
>> vertical deflection circuitry on the board to make it a proper NTSC
>> frequency, yes?
>>
>> Jens
>>
>> On 2021-04-10 10:52 p.m., 5-ht wrote:
>>
>> Jens,
>> The horizontal sync requirement of this monitor (52 uS / 19.2Khz) is
>> somewhat higher than a standard NTSC signal which is about 63 uS / 15.7 Khz.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 8:04:15 AM UTC-5 Jens Boos wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you! I did some more digging and found the service manual for the
>>> display (Panasonic TR-60S1A, see here:
>>> https://www.opweb.de/english/company/Panasonic/TR-60S1A)
>>>
>>> There is is a timing chart (see below). It looks an awful lot alike NTSC
>>> to me, can somebody confirm?
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> Jens
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2021-04-10 12:28 a.m., Adrian Godwin wrote:
>>>
>>> It's easy enough to extract the sync signals, as you've seen. It may not
>>> be particularly difficult to modify the TTL input to analog, or to create a
>>> TTL level signal if you don't need a grey-scale.  On many general-purpose
>>> monitors like that they could often be built for either standard - the
>>> microvitec Cub  popular with the BBC Microcomputer had that option.
>>>
>>> But the critical thing is that it runs at the right speed. CRT circuits
>>> are built around the line oscillator which generates the horizontal scan
>>> AND the EHT voltage. It was only when multisync monitors came along that
>>> the optimisation was split to reduce the dependency. And if the frame
>>> frequency is wrong, you will often have problems getting a full frame scan
>>> when you force it into sync.
>>>
>>> So the first thing is that you need to make sure the 8920 monitor ran at
>>> either PAL or NTSC rates so you can choose a raspberry pi format to match.
>>> There's a good chance it's NTSC but later monitors like the ones in the 54
>>> series of digital scopes were more like the IBM standards MDA and EGA (CGA
>>> was NTSC).
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 10

Re: [neonixie-l] OT: How to convert composite video into TTL?

[Adrian Godwin]

It sounds a bit of a stretch - 15kHz to 19kHz. You could try running the
monitor without an input signal and adjusting horizontal frequency (if
there is one) to see what range it can manage.

Another possibility is to fix it in software by creating a custom monitor
signal. Some information is at
https://github.com/raspberrypi/documentation/blob/master/configuration/config-txt/video.md



On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 10:51 PM jb-electronics 
wrote:

> Thank  you! I think it should be possible to modify the horizontal and
> vertical deflection circuitry on the board to make it a proper NTSC
> frequency, yes?
>
> Jens
>
> On 2021-04-10 10:52 p.m., 5-ht wrote:
>
> Jens,
> The horizontal sync requirement of this monitor (52 uS / 19.2Khz) is
> somewhat higher than a standard NTSC signal which is about 63 uS / 15.7 Khz.
>
> Mark
>
> On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 8:04:15 AM UTC-5 Jens Boos wrote:
>
>> Thank you! I did some more digging and found the service manual for the
>> display (Panasonic TR-60S1A, see here:
>> https://www.opweb.de/english/company/Panasonic/TR-60S1A)
>>
>> There is is a timing chart (see below). It looks an awful lot alike NTSC
>> to me, can somebody confirm?
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Jens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2021-04-10 12:28 a.m., Adrian Godwin wrote:
>>
>> It's easy enough to extract the sync signals, as you've seen. It may not
>> be particularly difficult to modify the TTL input to analog, or to create a
>> TTL level signal if you don't need a grey-scale.  On many general-purpose
>> monitors like that they could often be built for either standard - the
>> microvitec Cub  popular with the BBC Microcomputer had that option.
>>
>> But the critical thing is that it runs at the right speed. CRT circuits
>> are built around the line oscillator which generates the horizontal scan
>> AND the EHT voltage. It was only when multisync monitors came along that
>> the optimisation was split to reduce the dependency. And if the frame
>> frequency is wrong, you will often have problems getting a full frame scan
>> when you force it into sync.
>>
>> So the first thing is that you need to make sure the 8920 monitor ran at
>> either PAL or NTSC rates so you can choose a raspberry pi format to match.
>> There's a good chance it's NTSC but later monitors like the ones in the 54
>> series of digital scopes were more like the IBM standards MDA and EGA (CGA
>> was NTSC).
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 4:28 AM jb-electronics 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> This is a bit of an off-topic question, but I hope there will be
>>> somebody here that can help. I have bought a new-old stock monochrome
>>> CRT for a HP Agilent 8920A, basically this unit here:
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/273930914548 .
>>>
>>> It looks to me that it is just a rebranded OmniVision 6" display:
>>>
>>> http://www.omnivisionusa.com/Industrial-LCD-CRT-Monitors/replacement-crt/crt-monitors/6-inch-kit-.html
>>>
>>> Now unfortunately it takes TTL video as input. But I have a composite
>>> source (a Raspberry Pi). How can I convert composite into TTL? I
>>> basically need to extract Hsync and Vsync and feed it separately to the
>>> unit, okay. There is an old circuit here that does just that:
>>> https://www.elektormagazine.com/magazine/elektor-198812/47485
>>>
>>> But I know there are also dedicated chips, like the GS1881:
>>>
>>> https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/761/GS1881_GS4881_GS4981_Datasheet-769183.pdf
>>>
>>> So basically here is my question: before I dive into this any further,
>>> is there any chance of success? What is the optimal choice? Or is it
>>> quite unlikely that I will be able to convert the signals? I mean, even
>>> if I manage to extract Hsync and Vsync, is it likely to work?
>>>
>>> I am sorry for the naive question, but I am no expert on video signals,
>>> and it would be nice if anybody more experienced could chime in with a
>>> few words of caution/experience.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> Jens
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
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>>> an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/e0f398e8-24b1-952c-c998-0ddfbed6849e%40jb-electronics.de
>>> .
>>&g

Re: [neonixie-l] OT: How to convert composite video into TTL?

[Adrian Godwin]

It's easy enough to extract the sync signals, as you've seen. It may not be
particularly difficult to modify the TTL input to analog, or to create a
TTL level signal if you don't need a grey-scale.  On many general-purpose
monitors like that they could often be built for either standard - the
microvitec Cub  popular with the BBC Microcomputer had that option.

But the critical thing is that it runs at the right speed. CRT circuits are
built around the line oscillator which generates the horizontal scan AND
the EHT voltage. It was only when multisync monitors came along that the
optimisation was split to reduce the dependency. And if the frame frequency
is wrong, you will often have problems getting a full frame scan when you
force it into sync.

So the first thing is that you need to make sure the 8920 monitor ran at
either PAL or NTSC rates so you can choose a raspberry pi format to match.
There's a good chance it's NTSC but later monitors like the ones in the 54
series of digital scopes were more like the IBM standards MDA and EGA (CGA
was NTSC).

On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 4:28 AM jb-electronics 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> This is a bit of an off-topic question, but I hope there will be
> somebody here that can help. I have bought a new-old stock monochrome
> CRT for a HP Agilent 8920A, basically this unit here:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/273930914548 .
>
> It looks to me that it is just a rebranded OmniVision 6" display:
>
> http://www.omnivisionusa.com/Industrial-LCD-CRT-Monitors/replacement-crt/crt-monitors/6-inch-kit-.html
>
> Now unfortunately it takes TTL video as input. But I have a composite
> source (a Raspberry Pi). How can I convert composite into TTL? I
> basically need to extract Hsync and Vsync and feed it separately to the
> unit, okay. There is an old circuit here that does just that:
> https://www.elektormagazine.com/magazine/elektor-198812/47485
>
> But I know there are also dedicated chips, like the GS1881:
>
> https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/761/GS1881_GS4881_GS4981_Datasheet-769183.pdf
>
> So basically here is my question: before I dive into this any further,
> is there any chance of success? What is the optimal choice? Or is it
> quite unlikely that I will be able to convert the signals? I mean, even
> if I manage to extract Hsync and Vsync, is it likely to work?
>
> I am sorry for the naive question, but I am no expert on video signals,
> and it would be nice if anybody more experienced could chime in with a
> few words of caution/experience.
>
> Best wishes
> Jens
>
> --
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>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Colorful neons

[Adrian Godwin]

Big Clive mentioned these in a youtube video recently. Although the colour
is obviously due to the phosphor, he was unsure whether the gas is actually
neon. Mercury vapour would seem to be more useful to excite the phosphor
and it's hard to see an orange glow (though that may be because of the
bright phosphor).

Does anyone know for sure ?


On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 9:37 PM gregebert  wrote:

> I purchased a case of 1000 green neon bulbs several years ago; the
> shipping charges were about 90 USD and the bulbs around 60USD which worked
> to about 15 cents each. I didn't need all of them so I sold a few lots to
> folks in this group to help offset some of the cost.
>
> On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 8:04:44 AM UTC-7 Pramanicin wrote:
>
>> Roger that.
>>
>> I don't use Aliexpress anymore.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 03:40, Yohan Park  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for posting but these are quite common and can be ordered fairly
>> cheap on AliExpress.
>>
>>
>> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001202773443.html
>>
>> On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 6:30:57 PM UTC+1 Pramanicin wrote:
>>
>>> I noted some blue and green neons being sold on the bay..
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/20X-4MM-13MM-F4-4-Blue-Night-Light-Neon-BL-Indicator-Lamp-Bulb-220V-20PCS-a-lot/313153340144?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D231410%26meid%3De1df92a6f5cf42ec9efd9c81d7f602f5%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D313153375327%26itm%3D313153340144%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithBBEV2bDarwoXgbV1&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851
>>>
>>> These have come up in discussion before and have been a little
>>> unobtainablenot my listing etc. etc...just an FYI.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
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[neonixie-l] restoring GR-116D

[Adrian Godwin]

I have an old Racal-Dana counter in which the most significant digit has
areas that are dark. I'm putting this down to cathode poisoning, and want
to try restoring it.

There are some other peculiarities : that digit usually starts working
properly if I touch the anode with a DVM probe (but fails again at the next
power cycle), and it's also the one digit with a different batch code to
the other 4, though I don't think it has been changed in the past.

I've been through the DC supply and corrected any problems I can find but
it seems not to have enough current available to use it as a restoration
supply and also still drops sharply (briefly) when it sees the capacitance
of the DVM.

To try the increased-current method, I can generate the necessary voltage
and current more easily at AC than at DC. Should I do the extra work to
give it DC o does AC work too ? And should I be looking at the average
current, or the peak ?

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Re: [neonixie-l] Interesting Nixie counter at auction

[Adrian Godwin]

This (free) software takes PCB artworks created in inkscape and generates
manufacturing files.

https://github.com/boldport/pcbmode

Some examples here :

https://github.com/boldport/circuit-board-photos


On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:07 PM Mac Doktor  wrote:

>
> On Jan 31, 2021, at 5:51 PM, Mac Doktor  wrote:
>
> I finally got a macro program and used it to do all of the mousing for me.
> LUXURY.
>
>
> I hit send too soon.
>
> At the time I was working for a local printer. My workflow was to draw the
> board at 200%, print it out on their 300DPI laser printer, and shoot a
> negative at 50% with their enormous old camera. This increased the
> resolution to 600DPI and smoothed out the edges of angled traces. Analog
> anti-aliasing.
>
> I used the negative to expose pre-sensitized blank boards and etch them.
> My etching tank was a deep Pyrex® (borosilicate glass) baking dish with a
> long aquarium aerator "bar" in the bottom. This was connected to an air
> pump with a bleeder valve that I used to vary the pressure and therefore
> the amount of bubbling. This in turn agitated the board so strongly and
> evenly that a perfect etch (with used ferric chloride) only took a few
> minutes—unattended.
>
> I set up my Unimat as a miniature drill press, clamped the board on the
> milling table, and used the precision feed-screws to drill perfectly spaced
> and aligned holes.
>
> Those were the days.
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> https://www.astarcloseup.com/
>
> “...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, it
> said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close up.”—Carl
> Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", *Cosmos*, 1980
>
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How close together do a controller and crystal need to be?

[Adrian Godwin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_factor

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 10:05 PM Paul Andrews  wrote:

> Hmm. My recollection from high school physics was that the speed of
> propagation along a wave guide was around 90% the speed of light -
> presumably limited by the dielectric. Signals along a plain old wire, on
> the other hand, were more like 1/3 the speed of light. Now I'm going to
> have to double-check that for the first time in over 40 years!
>
> On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 2:20:06 PM UTC-5 Chuck wrote:
>
>> A handy way I use, to remember the approximate speed of light, which is
>> also the approximate
>>
>> speed at which an electrical signal travels in a wire is just to think of
>> it
>>
>> as 1 nanosecond per foot.   Approximately.
>>
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: "gregebert" 
>> Sent: 12/27/2020 12:32:41 AM
>> To: "neonixie-l" 
>> Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] How close together do a controller and crystal
>> need to be?
>>
>> I'm assuming you are routing the output signal of an oscillator, not the
>> crystal signals themselves.
>>
>> The rise- & fall-times of the clock signal will determine how long the
>> trace can be without termination. Faster edge-rates, say in the 2-3nsec
>> range, will limit your trace to around 1 inch.
>> Signals propagate around 150psec/inch, and if the rise/fall times are
>> about 10x (or larger) longer than the flight-time, then reflections should
>> not have sufficient amplitude to cause false clocking.
>>
>> In the example above, 1 inch of trace has a round-trip flight-time of
>> 300psec. If the rise and fall delays are 3nsec or larger, you can safely
>> use 1 inch of trace without using termination networks or
>> controlled-impedance traces.
>>
>> SPICE simulations are very helpful when deciding how to design clock
>> lines when you cant satisfy the above rule.
>> On Saturday, December 26, 2020 at 4:06:26 PM UTC-8 Bill van Dijk wrote:
>>
>>> As long as there is not something very noisy on the other side of the
>>> board you’ll be just fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Erick Anderson
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 26, 2020 6:53 PM
>>> *To:* neonixie-l 
>>> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] How close together do a controller and crystal
>>> need to be?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I designed a board for the 6-digit All Spectrum controller, which uses
>>> the Dallas TCXO chip. That's what goes in the DIP-14 socket in the picture.
>>> Right now they're as close to each other as possible. I'm thinking about
>>> redesigning the board to be a bit shorter, and moving the socket into the
>>> empty space at the right of the board would help. This would make the clock
>>> signal trace much longer, but is that actually a problem?
>>>
>>> --
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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> .
>

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