[NSP] New topic?
I note that our latest copy of the New Internationalist has a cover story tag for The Rise of the Killer Drones. Is this an aspect of piping we should be discussing? Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Farewell to Whisky - Niel Gow
As an aside, my wife found long ago that they go well together as a sequenced pair with a story to tell, on small harp! Richard. On 13/09/2011 17:54, Francis Wood wrote: The note accompanying the fine tune 'Farewell to Whisky' appearing in the Gow 5th collection states: This tune alludes to prohibiting the making of Whisky in 1799. It is expressive of a Highlander's sorrow on being deprived of his favourite beverage. Also in the 5th collection is the remedy to this distressing situation: 'Whisky Welcome back again', with the note: Alluding to permitting Whisky to be distilled in the year 1801. It is a merry dancing Tune. I seem to remember reading that the prohibition was caused by a shortage of grain. Can anyone provide anything more specific about the relevant circumstances in 1799 - 1801? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_19666SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: (no subject)
On 08/09/2011 10:07, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: I used to suffer from dustmites all year round until a suitable treatment was found. I wonder when someone will develop the double action bellows - one to inflate the pipes, another to fit a vacuum cleaner attachment, which if you think about it could look remarkably like a large bagpipe set with an extra long open ended chanter... Sorry, how can you tell I have far too much to do today and am seeking diversionary tactics? Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: (no subject)
Would we get round to organising them, though, Julia? Happy diverting-from-whatever-you're-supposed-to-be-doing :) Richard. On 08/09/2011 11:17, Julia Say wrote: On 8 Sep 2011, Richard York wrote: Sorry, how can you tell I have far too much to do today and am seeking diversionary tactics? Its called constructive procrastination, Richard. I'm getting to be an expert on it, too. Shall we run courses on it in our spare time? ;-) Julia --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: [1]http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID =pav_19169SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings \Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- -- References 1. http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_19169SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Harvest tunes
You mean we could get away with Pachelbel's, Harvest Ground Canon, from his famous suite, A Bass for All Seasons? :) Richard. On 03/09/2011 21:19, Barry Say wrote: It has been reported that when Jack Armstrong appeared on the radio, the producers encouraged (required?) him to provide Northumbrian titles for the tunes he used. Whether or not this is true, why not take existing tunes which you like to play and give them 'Harvest' titles. I heard an interview with a young American singer/songwriter who accompanied herself on guitar. She was offered a well-paid gig to play 'cowboy' songs. A friend advised her to take the gig, play her own material, and call them cowboy songs. Of the audience he said Hell, they ain't no ethnomusicologists. Just a thought. Barry Richard York wrote: Please may I thank all those of you who, both on and off-list, have sent such a wealth of ideas. I knew this group was a helpful bunch of people, but have been really delighted by the quantity of great ideas, and the time you've taken to put them together. The service our friend is conducting could now be hours long, and that's just the music, never mind the other bits! There's a meeting this Tuesday of the people taking part, and I'll bring all the suggestions to it. Thanks again, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_18625SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Harvest tunes
Please may I thank all those of you who, both on and off-list, have sent such a wealth of ideas. I knew this group was a helpful bunch of people, but have been really delighted by the quantity of great ideas, and the time you've taken to put them together. The service our friend is conducting could now be hours long, and that's just the music, never mind the other bits! There's a meeting this Tuesday of the people taking part, and I'll bring all the suggestions to it. Thanks again, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Harvest tunes
Our band is playing for a Harvest Festival in a church in MK later this month, partly to accompany their hymns, and partly to play a few seasonally relevant tunes at some point. Other than the obvious Harvest Home h'pipe and one or two others, I'm not finding many good tune titles yet, and would welcome suggestions. Useful ones would be good, though I suspect the usual suspects will think of others too... Not necessarily nsp repertoire, just anything you know of, please. (Playford and John Offord both seem to have very little to offer, surprisingly, I was expecting loads of trad titles to leap out at me, as they do for some other times of the year.) With thanks, Richard, -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, Roxborough Castle
Yes to both, and the acoustic doesn't help at all. And a curious choice of drone, which on my headset seemed to be the subdominant. I admire anyone, though, who can honestly say they've never played too fast when confronted with a recording device, and mangled good intentions, when nervous adrenalin cripples technique though. Or am I being too kind to him - is he just a man of tin ears indeed? Richard. On 30/06/2011 09:22, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Might be quite good if he played it at half the speed. And got his chanter remotely in tune. Otherwise agree with Francis. Me too. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_11660SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, Roxborough Castle
True 'nuff! :) On 30/06/2011 10:20, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: ... Could have done another take? C --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_11671SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Meanwhile I'm working on my next piece for the competitions later in the year. I've got as far as Dum poppapoppapoppadum poppa, but can't decide if it should be dum or pop next. Thoughtful and considered artistic advice of a sensitive nature would be most welcome, please. Richard. On 21/06/2011 17:00, [1]si...@leveau8.fsnet.co.uk wrote: I assume all this food based music will be played on a crumpet or a cornetto --Original Message-- From: Gibbons, John Sender: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu To: 'Francis Wood' To: Richard York Cc: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead Sent: Jun 21, 2011 4:36 PM Or poppaDOMpompompom POPpadom? -Original Message- From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[4]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Beha lf Of Francis Wood Sent: 21 June 2011 16:29 To: Richard York Cc: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead P On 21 Jun 2011, at 15:51, Richard York wrote: Then there's the Beethoven version- poppopaDOM Or this, anyone? Poppadom, Poppadom, Poppadom-pom ? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:si...@leveau8.fsnet.co.uk 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Oh the perils of using a short-hand term carelessly! OK, I shouldn't have called it staccato, I was merely characterising the general sound difference between piano and plucked keyboard instruments to make my point, a dangerous and un-scholarly thing to do :) And all you say is of course quite true. And I've just learned a new word - didn't know martele until now. Thanks. Best wishes, Richard. On 20/06/2011 09:34, [1]christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: However, I think we differ over the harpsichord's ability to play 'long-sustained'. I was having this discussion with my wife the other day (she plays keyboards rat her better than I can), so I went to the harpsichord and tried it to check. Just like on a piano, if you hold a key down, the damper remains out of contact with the string, which sustains longer than it would if you released the key immedia tely. Not as long as on the piano of course, but there's a difference between st accatissimo and simple separation. Maybe the term should be short-sustained. As regards detached fingering, it's interesting that the term detache when a pplied to bowing of a string instrument does not imply a silence between the not es. It merely means that you change bow direction for each note, making a fresh start, rather than slurring two or more together. The on-the-string bowing with a silence between notes is called martele. Staccato means separating notes w ith a silence while staying on the string but not changing the direction of the bow. Then of course there's all the off-the-string stuff. Staccato in Italian means separated. It does not mean short. Playing NSP with a fresh start to each note but not necessarily a clearly audibl e silence can sound very pleasant, at least to my ears, and of course you need t o be able to do the staccatissimo in the first place to do it reliably because t he timing has to be phenomenally precise. The look mummy, no legato (or drippi ng tap) way of playing just sounds like a technical exercise. To do a good detac he it helps to have a good martele to begin with. I would argue that the martele was the basic stroke just like the staccato is the basic way of playing NSP. C --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: [2]http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID =pav_10246SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings \Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- -- References 1. mailto:christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu 2. http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_10246SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Ending tunes traditionally
There are many tunes, especially slip jigs, and quite a few Peacocks, which as written, end on a note that implies we're about to go back to the beginning and start again, but isn't really in itself an endi- ... Many players stop there on the last time through, and don't play the note which seems to want to come and end it, pointing out that it ain't in the script so you don't play it. It's a matter of taste whether you like a hanging in the air, imperfect/interrupted/whatever cadence, type of ending, or whether you like to add the extra back-home note on the last time. Since I've only got dots and some recordings, mostly of modern players, to go on, I have no hard evidence as to how it was really done back in the day. Some tunes I like that way, with others my instinct is to add the implied final note, especially if playing for dancers. (It doesn't have to be a Jimmy Shand type Taraaa, of course!) So I wonder if it's done that way because it really was traditional, or because people who, like me, only have what was written down, are slavishly not playing un-written dots, despite the fact that we happily accept that dots are necessarily an imperfect shorthand, (Cf hornpipe rhythms, non-notated grace notes in many traditions, and so forth); so we stop because the person notating it didn't bother making an extra last time bar. Or did the traditional musicians who'd learned it from their great-uncle who had it from - and so on, actually play it that way? Please could those of you, like Anthony and others, who have played with the survival of the living tradition (whichever one!) offer any help? Thanks and best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
Yes! Richard. On 17/06/2011 10:49, Matt Seattle wrote: Lotsa fun here - Adrian's inspired '6 classes' made me laugh out loud As for 'tradition', it is a neutral, value-free term, there are good traditions and bad - human sacrifice was traditionally practised in some cultures.. As for 'can you play' - in one sense, of course Anthony can play, Adrian can play, and so on. In another sense, none of us can play. Music is a manifestation of Grace beyond all of us. If we are fortunate, occasionally Music visits our stumbling endeavours, and we are blessed. To place a method of articulating notes (detached fingering) above all other considerations - the most obvious being 'which notes?' - is, I venture, missing the point of the exercise. As for Billy Pigg, as has been said here before, his 'Wild Hills' was what pulled many of us in here. It's not pure anything, in the sense of the detached style of the mining areas, or the lilting rhythms of the hill tribes, and it's not faultless playing. But it is pure magic. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
Yes! Richard On 17/06/2011 10:49, Matt Seattle wrote: Lotsa fun here - Adrian's inspired '6 classes' made me laugh out loud As for 'tradition', it is a neutral, value-free term, there are good traditions and bad - human sacrifice was traditionally practised in some cultures.. As for 'can you play' - in one sense, of course Anthony can play, Adrian can play, and so on. In another sense, none of us can play. Music is a manifestation of Grace beyond all of us. If we are fortunate, occasionally Music visits our stumbling endeavours, and we are blessed. To place a method of articulating notes (detached fingering) above all other considerations - the most obvious being 'which notes?' - is, I venture, missing the point of the exercise. As for Billy Pigg, as has been said here before, his 'Wild Hills' was what pulled many of us in here. It's not pure anything, in the sense of the detached style of the mining areas, or the lilting rhythms of the hill tribes, and it's not faultless playing. But it is pure magic. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Oops
Sorry, Julia, Sorry - I got in late yesterday, read a few, but hadn't seen that you'd already done this one! Richard. The oil of the little known Ont Rhubbledwarterz tree may be suggested. Richard By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to use? Francis -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Hello Francis, Quite so, but, playing devil's advocate for a minute, (and loving tradition except where it becomes tribal), does the fact that we can play staccato and 99% of other pipes can't, mean it's all we should do? The harpsichord, after all, could only really play staccato or slightly sustained, and then the piano came in and could play long sustained, but it doesn't mean we don't still use staccato as part of the vocabulary on the piano. I'm not doubting the value of detached playing at all, it really is the best thing most of the time, but just wanting the occasional extra bit of vocabulary. And as a matter of taste more than a tiny bit of smooth really doesn't suit the nsp's to my mind, but like some spices, the occasional addition can go a long way. I speak more as a listener than claiming great expertise in playing here. Best wishes, Richard. PS should the proper piping movement consider calling itself the Real piping movement? Hi Colin and others, The closed-fingering technique derives much more from the nature of the instrument rather than any opinions about style. Since the NSP chanter has a stopped end, there would be little point in adopting anything other than this fingering style, which allows separate notes with (usually) a distinguishable silence between each. This is something that no other bagpipe can do. In fact it would be difficult to think of another wind instrument capable of silence whilst pressure is applied. At present I can only identify the ocarina. The limits of any bag-blown chanter/ oboe are obvious. Almost no opportunity for dynamics, and very little for on-the-go tuning. The scale of the primitive NSP chanter is confined to eight notes. This is clearly a chicken egg situation - the construction and the style of playing of instruments are closely related, and neither predates the other. What commonly happens with almost any musical instrument is that its limitations are adopted into the playing style as highly identifiable and positive features. Hence, closed fingering. Operated by open minds. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_9926SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: divorce
The oil of the little known Ont Rhubbledwarterz tree may be suggested. Richard By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to use? Francis --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_9724SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\NetworkService\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Concerts in France
I love the helpful way that this site has a union flag pointing to its English translation version. The descriptive text is still in French, as far as I can see, but helpful bits like You are reading the website of... and the name of the auction house are given in English. As are the links to stuff we wouldn't cope with in French unless we were very advanced, like Top (as in, of page.) Unless my computer has a translation-blocker, of course. Richard. Incidentally, if anyone is short of a musette, three are being sold at a forthcoming auction in France. These are the real things; original 18C ivory items. You will need rather a lot of money!: http://vichy-encheres.com/2011/03/23/musette-de-cour/ Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipers' discussion forum
I haven't seen the www site for a while, so was impressed to note it's looking a lot better: congratulations - it's a lot of hard work! Please could the NPS newsletters, which are in the main presumably seen by members, perhaps have the password printed somewhere in the contacts list, so that forgetful members like me can be reminded of what it is, and access the members' area? If the occasional non-member sees it, it's presumably not a life-and-death security issue? Best wishes, Richard. On 29/05/2011 08:50, Tim Rolls wrote: As Julia mentioned there is a discussion forum on the NPS website at http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/ Although it's to be found currently on the members' area page, it is open to non members. All we ask is that you sign in using a recognisable version of your name as your user name so we all know who we're talking to. If you want to have a look at the rest of the website it's at http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/ Any problems, please contact me off list. Tim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipers' discussion forum
Thanks! Richard On 29/05/2011 10:20, Tim Rolls wrote: The members' area password should appear in the next newsletter. The members area doesn't yet contain a lot of items. but we hope it will grow. If anyone has any ideas for items for the site, in or out of the restricted members area, please let us know via [1]webs...@northumbrianpipers.org.uk. cheers Tim -- References 1. mailto:webs...@northumbrianpipers.org.uk. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] re-Tune of the Month
The only competitive element in some melodeon circles is to be the one who can play louder, which thankfully is not normally an issue in nsp's! Hence the expression Wall to wall melodeons. But there are more and more superb box players out there, including some quiet ones. Love and piece indeed... did you have any particular piece in mind this month, Francis? Richard. On 24/05/2011 10:23, Francis Wood wrote: Since I've never felt the urge to compete, perhaps I shouldn't really comment. But from what I've observed, the competition element in the NSP world is nothing like that in GHB piping. It seems to me that NSP competition is far more about participation in traditional events and receiving some personal endorsement of achievement, rather than defeating the opposition. I've no idea what melodeon culture and tradition is like, but evidently it cannot be ancient, as piping traditions are. If there are strong feelings about how things should be done (preferably expressed in a friendly way, but I won't lose sleep if they are not), I'm interested and glad to read them in this forum. This is essentially a pretty friendly place, though with the occasional angry outburst. Rather like any average marriage, I guess. Love n' Peace to all, Francis On 24 May 2011, at 09:33,christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Perhaps one of the reasons the melodeon group is so friendly is that they don't have competition built into their culture the way pipers do. (For a diatribe on the subject see my editorial at [2]www.theotherpipers.org). Excellent article! Csírz To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Alice Burn, and whatever
Hi, I've just got back from a week away to find this lot, and would really like to listen to Alice Emily's sound. Sadly when I click on the link the RealPlayer box duly pops up, takes ages to load, then sits there refusing to do anything. It's probably something very computer illiterate I'm doing - any helpful comments would be welcome, please. As a fool stepping in where angels, etc. Bach's music can work fantastically on totally authentic period instruments, if the musicians are good enough. His music can also work well with modern electrics, if the musicians are good enough. I believe JSB himself reckoned the piano would never catch on, as it was when he first heard it. Then it developed. Some musical experiments are regrettable, but if they don't speak to enough people they die out; if they do they live, and tastes change and develop. In the 70's I really liked folk rock, and Steel-eye Span; these days I prefer the more traditional bare-bones stuff I would have got bored with then. As a parallel, I happen to like small harps, and really don't like much of the sound of the (to my mind) over-developed full orchestral harp, but it seems to please a lot of intelligent people. Is it so terrible to push the boundaries? Who does the music belong to? Who needs protecting from what? Should we start a music and philosophy group :) And I still can't get the clips to work. Richard. On 19/05/2011 22:28, Anthony Robb wrote: Hello folks There may be one or two apart from Adrian interested in the Alice person. Here she is playing with Emily Hoile at the Chantry Museum last night for the Windy Gyle Band Force 6 launch. This won't be to everyone's liking but gives a flavour of what she Emily get up to when left to their own devices. Aplogies for overloads, I started my Edirol running and then totally neglected the levels - Emily's harp shook the living daylights out of it! [1][1]http://www.robbpipes.com/AliceEmily Cheers Anthony P.S. it was a grand night - thank you Anne M. -- References 1. [2]http://www.robbpipes.com/AliceEmily To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.robbpipes.com/AliceEmily 2. http://www.robbpipes.com/AliceEmily 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Wishful thinking or feasible science?
Hello all. I've just enjoyed re-reading Francis Woods' excellent article, In Praise of Old Pipes, in the 2010 Vol 31 NPS Journal. There he refers to the myth [which] holds that instruments inevitably deteriorate if they are not used. [...] what really wears them out is using them . I quite see that the mechanical use of moving keys, sliding tunable parts, etc. causes wear, but would welcome comments on a probably very unscientific thought on the actual wood in instruments. (By the by, I realise mouth-blown woodwind deteriorates through the warming, wetting and drying and cooling effect, but feel that's not so relevant here.) I watched a demonstration recently of how the form of vibrations through an instrument can clearly be seen, by using sand on the soundboard of a rebec held horizontally, which neatly slid into patterns. Since all matter is made of particles, is it possible that the regular patterns of vibration may somehow arrange these particles in a way relating to these regular movements? Which in turn would affect its acoustic character, I assume. Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Has there ever been an NSP with _all_ keys (no open holes)?
And given that an instrument's design is (literally) instrumental in shaping its own repertoire, would it even be at all appropriate to do so? Best wishes, Richard. On 23/03/2011 11:15, Dru Brooke-Taylor wrote: I've a recollection that adding all the keys to woodwind instruments wasn't just about being able to add extra notes, but because some notes can fit better with a fully chromatic scale if the holes are all different sizes, including some that are too big for fingers to cover. There's an article about it here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boehm_System Would this give us any benefits? Even if it would, it sounds as though it would require a complete redesign of the chanter as well. Dru To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_2436SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Still looking for an F set!
Forgive me, but methinks that's a rather unhelpful response to a reasonable if admittedly diplomatically difficult request, John. Perhaps people who like their own pipes might answer Gordon off-list? Richard. On 23/03/2011 14:35, John Dally wrote: You want us to recommend a maker? ha, ha, ha. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 4:02 AM, Gordon Browngor...@10db.co.uk wrote: My wife Alison has a Burleigh D set is still looking for an F set so that she can play along with other pipers - not that there are many in East Anglia! If anyone has a set for sale or knows of one that may be available, please let me know. The alternative is that we look for a new set, although I'm bracing myself for the long wait. On that basis, does anyone have any recommendations for a nice traditional/conventional F set? As I've had a good year price is not the main consideration, quality and reliability are. Cheers Gordon -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_2471SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Has there ever been an NSP with _all_ keys (no open holes)?
Interesting... would it actually be easier, with all keys and therefore all fingers [] available to hit keys ? As it is I'm still teaching my fingers when to move to make all the notes faster, and still letting my thumb little finger learn which position is which, but most of the fingers are limited to their unique notes. If several fingers were available to hit the same key, I feel instinctively that it would be more confusing, even though I happily do exactly that on concertinas and other keyboard instruments. Somehow the woodwind holding position says different things to my hands, and I expect a particular finger always to produce a particular note. What would you hold it by, given that touching any key would produce a note? - you'd need some blank bits to keep your fingers on, and then have to lift them up and move them to the notes. More confusion. I think I'll stick to having holes! Richard. On 22/03/2011 21:28, Colin wrote: Interesting thought but which woodwind instruments don't have at least 6 or 7 open (unkeyed) holes? All mine have the standard unkeyed holes along with the other keyed ones. Maybe the large amount of metalwork hides the fact the holes are there but certainly flutes, clarinets, saxophones, bassoons and oboes have open holes. Flutes, of course, go a step further in having keys with holes in them . As far as I know, there is no member of the woodwind class made without open holes (discounting some bass instruments which would be impossible for the fingers to reach maybe). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Matthew Boris matthew_p...@hotmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:06 PM Subject: [NSP] Has there ever been an NSP with _all_ keys (no open holes)? I was pondering recently, both on the stacatto effect of the keys, the difficulties in only having two fingers free to hit keys, and also thinking about whether a person missing a hand could play bagpipes in general. A thought occurred to me: have any NSP been made which had every hole covered by a key? With such a settup, all fingers would be available to hit keys. I think that's how a lot of modern woodwinds are made; is there any reason besides tradition that this is not regularly done on NSP? -Matthew Arlington, Virginia, USA -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_2380SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Halsway
Thank you must hugely to you who were part of the Halsway event this weekend past - To Alan for organising, to Andy, Chris, Chris and Francis (aphabetically speaking) for tutoring; and just as much so to all who went, and made it such a fantastically nourishing weekend. Yes, the food was pretty good, but this was nourishment for the spirit and the well-being, because everyone conspired to make a truly creatively friendly houseful of people. Oh yes, and there was some nice music too :) We came away feeling ten times better than when we went! Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Esoteric tuning relationships
Thanks all for these responses. I'm trying in vain to remember the name in a BBC Radio3 programme some while ago about the Italian composer, just before Gesualdo, who devised the most amazing system to mean that all intervals were perfectly in tune, but the instruments, and singers, had to be tuned with several microtonally different versions of each nominal note to achieve it. I've thought before that it almost argues the existence of a god with a sense of humour, to set the maths so that the octave does want to divide, via the 5ths, into 12 semitones which then don't produce an octave. Back to playing the pipes. Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Esoteric tuning relationships
I am sure I'm not the only person here who gets different feelings about different keys. G always feels fairly stable, A is a bit more exciting, Em is darker than Am , and so on. When playing an A minor tune I wrote for nsp's on the piano to see what harmonies it wanted, I was playing in Am, the written pitch, to get the right feel. It comes out on the pipes in more-or-less G minor of course, but still has that feeling of lift of being on A rather than G. While I lack the finger facility to play it in Gm on the pipes I suspect it would feel different there, just as it does on real Gm on the piano. I put this down to my pipes being tuned with G as their home key, as it were, so the maths is probably the same in relation to G on the piano if you can work out what I mean by this imprecise expression. I realise this could get far far more complicated than my maths will begin to understand, so will content myself with wondering if anyone else gets this feeling, and if it transposes itself the same way for you between nsp's and concert pitch instruments. Or am I just approaching ever nearer to being certifiably in need of locking away? Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads
Having listened - a spectacular discovery, John! It must have taken quite a while to, er, find it. Best wishes, Richard. On 17/01/2011 13:05, Gibbons, John wrote: Corrected the upbeats: X:2 T: The Rotting of the Cotton Threads C:Trad? M:4/4 Q:1/4=60 L:1/8 K:A dor g||:f| eA Ac bD EB| ef ge Be B/Ge/|eA Ac bD EB| cd e/d/c/d/ eA A :| c|ef ea ac de| fg af dA fd| ef ea ac df| ef g/f/e/d/ eA A|| c|ef ea ac de| fg af be fd|(3 efg (3 agf (3 gfe (3fed| ef g/f/e/d/ eA A|| ||:f|ec eA GB EB|eB gB e/d/c/B/ cf|ec eA GB EB|eB g/f/e/d/ eA A:|| G|EF EA CE A,C|EG Ac dA fd| EF EA CE A,c|ef g/f/e/d/ eA A|| G|EF EA CE A,C|EG Ac dA fa| (3bag (3agf (3gfe (3fed| ef g/f/e/d/ eA A2|| John -Original Message- From: Gibbons, John Sent: 17 January 2011 12:46 To: NSP group Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads Richard, Your discovery is a good one, but the rhythm of the title ''The Rotting of the Cotton Threads'' is so clearly a Strathspey, as Francis noted, that I looked elsewhere in the archive. On a moth eaten, yellowing, and (Speyside) whisky-stained sheet of paper I found: X:2 T: The Rotting of the Cotton Threads C:Trad? M:4/4 Q:1/4=60 L:1/8 K:A dor g.||:f/| eA Ac bD EB| ef ge Be B/Ge/|eA Ac bD EB| cd e/d/c/d/ eA A. :| c/|ef ea ac de| fg af dA fd| ef ea ac df| ef g/f/e/d/ eA A.|| c/|ef ea ac de| fg af be fd|(3 efg (3 agf (3 gfe (3fed| ef g/f/e/d/ eA A.|| ||:f/|ec eA GB EB|eB gB e/d/c/B/ cf|ec eA GB EB|eB g/f/e/d/ eA A.:|| G/|EF EA CE A,C|EG Ac dA fd| EF EA CE A,c|ef g/f/e/d/ eA A.|| G/|EF EA CE A,C|EG Ac dA fa| (3bag (3agf (3gfe (3fed| ef g/f/e/d/ eA A.|| Perhaps this is the one Francis was thinking of?? The title rhythm certainly fits the first bar, so perhaps someone can also discover the missing lyric John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Richard York Sent: 16 January 2011 22:54 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads In fact I'm sure it would have made more sense with the sections in reverse order. But there you are, that's how I found it. R. On 16/01/2011 22:45, Richard York wrote: Arduous research in dusty attics and archives has revealed, Francis, that I regret it's not a strathspey, more a sort of rhythmic unravelling. I couldn't find anything called The Rotting of the Cotton Threads as such, but this obviously fairly corrupt version called The Rotting of the Threads, which is pretty close, I'm sure you'll agree, turned up among the yellowing manuscripts. It will be seen that the rhythms perhaps reflect the progressive degeneration of the instrument... though I feel that the copyist has perhaps put them in reverse order, so that rather than losing a beat each time, the idee fixe actually gains one. Strange, and rather sad, really. It was hard to read the writing, but I think I transcribed it correctly. If anyone has a better written out version I'll be delighted to see it. I copy it below in abc's X:1 T: The Rotting of the Threads C:Trad? M:3/4 Q:120 L:1/8 K:G |:.gA.g.c e/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gB d/2B/2A/2G/2|.EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2|.DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:| M:7/8 |: .gA.gB.c e/2d/2c/2B/2|.gA.gA.B d/2B/2A/2G/2|\ M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 | .DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:4/4 .gA.gA B.ce/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gA B.cd/2B/2A/G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 |. DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:9/8 .gAg .ABc .ee/2c/2B/2A/2|.gAg .ABc .dd/2B/2A/2G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2| .DABc .d/2B/2A/2G/2:| Best wishes, Richard. On 15/01/2011 00:07, Francis Wood wrote: A Strathspey, surely? Francis On 14 Jan 2011, at 23:57, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: Is 'The rotting of the cotton threads' the title of a tune I haven't learned yet? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads
Arduous research in dusty attics and archives has revealed, Francis, that I regret it's not a strathspey, more a sort of rhythmic unravelling. I couldn't find anything called The Rotting of the Cotton Threads as such, but this obviously fairly corrupt version called The Rotting of the Threads, which is pretty close, I'm sure you'll agree, turned up among the yellowing manuscripts. It will be seen that the rhythms perhaps reflect the progressive degeneration of the instrument... though I feel that the copyist has perhaps put them in reverse order, so that rather than losing a beat each time, the idee fixe actually gains one. Strange, and rather sad, really. It was hard to read the writing, but I think I transcribed it correctly. If anyone has a better written out version I'll be delighted to see it. I copy it below in abc's X:1 T: The Rotting of the Threads C:Trad? M:3/4 Q:120 L:1/8 K:G |:.gA.g.c e/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gB d/2B/2A/2G/2|.EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2|.DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:| M:7/8 |: .gA.gB.c e/2d/2c/2B/2|.gA.gA.B d/2B/2A/2G/2|\ M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 | .DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:4/4 .gA.gA B.ce/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gA B.cd/2B/2A/G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 |. DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:9/8 .gAg .ABc .ee/2c/2B/2A/2|.gAg .ABc .dd/2B/2A/2G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2| .DABc .d/2B/2A/2G/2:| Best wishes, Richard. On 15/01/2011 00:07, Francis Wood wrote: A Strathspey, surely? Francis On 14 Jan 2011, at 23:57, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: Is 'The rotting of the cotton threads' the title of a tune I haven't learned yet? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] CD's books at Halsway
Will whoever's taking any NPS etc shop items to the March Halsway pipers' weekend be including the new Matt Seattle Bewick book, and the excellently well reviewed Rob Say CD, please? Looking forward already to a good weekend. Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: oil - and for other instruments?l
While we're here, what oil would you recommend for mouth-blown woodwind instruments, either pipes or recorders, which have no moving parts but need the wood feeding? I'm never sure what to use. Almond seems nice on recorders, and hasn't yet appeared to go rancid, but I'd welcome more advice, please. Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Off-topic request for Hymnbook
I also found it really confusing when trying to teach traditional music in this system to French speaking groups. Given that tonic solfa allows a movable doh (Or should that be Doh!? ) it's a very helpful system for singing with, as long as you indeed don't forget which of the arbitrary names means which relative pitch. But when you're familiar with that system, trying to then translate a tune in G from the alphabetical name system into continental style solfa, where the instinctive tonic Doh of G is now called Sol, etc., so that players can sing it knowing which note they're going to use on the instrument, left my brain even more confused than you probably are after trying to read this. (Meanwhile trying mentally to summon my inadequate French in order to explain the next bit of teaching material without saying anything unintentionally rude or nonsensical at the same time.) :) Richard. On 12/01/2011 09:14, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: I think in France they have a fixed do system, where mib =Meeflat = Eb This is correct. At the Conservatoires they teach people to sing the note names, which I personally find a pointless exercise for various reasons, including the fact that they miss out the words bémol, dièse and bécart (flat, sharp, nat) because there is no time to fit them in. There is also the fact that the note-names are arbitrary (they are the initial syllables of the lines of an ancient Latin hymn - Ut quaent laxis) and hence don't follow any pre-existing sequence (unlike A, B, C etc.). This is also why C is often referred to in French as Ut, which is strictly speaking bottom C in an octave, the top C (or do) being, historically haut i.e. high. It's very impressive to hear French-trained musicians do this at high speed tho. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
Hi Mike, You have the right man in Colin Dipper! A very Rolls Royce of concertina tuners, who 25 years ago rescued my lovely anglo from a botch job someone else had done, and has looked after it from time to time ever since. And on the other hand, you probably already know that unless there's a good reason for haste, it may be quite a wait before you see it again! (I've been lucky so far.) If you're considering getting rid of the bass notes, are these the buttons you're going to be hanging extra accidentals for the right hand on? It sounds as if you're playing both English Anglo systems already, but to my mind having right hand notes under the left fingers of an anglo would really be confusing... I find the anglo a very tactile thing, compared to the more technical logical approach of the English system, and for me it would upset the lines of treble and bass thinking which the fingers do almost by themselves. I'd want to be sure I was gaining more than I was losing. Before I got my anglo in the first place, someone had tried re-arranging the system, and given up half-way. Colin has too much experience for that, but I'd still want to be sure that the gain outweighed the loss. Best of luck, Richard On 06/01/2011 12:36, Mike Dixon wrote: Rob Thanks - Colin Dipper will be doing the work for me ( he has just tweaked and sold my English concertina for me which is funding this work!) so I will talk it through with him - I gather he has done similar work for other pipers I will also have a look at a second hand one as an option - I will have to do the sums! Could you expand on the 'care and sympathy' with the drones? Cheers Mike -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of rob@milecastle27.co.uk Sent: 06 January 2011 12:00 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning Morning Mike - yes this correct. For a C/G anglo where you are typically playing tunes in G and D (and associated minors) you would want a Bb/F tuning to play with NSP. Unless you know the person you want to play with is in concert F then +20 would also be a very good idea. I have a Bb English concertina but it doesn't get out much because it's in concert pitch and too far from most sets of pipes. Personally I wouldn't get rid of the bass notes there's a lot of musical room to play in down there. It requires care and sympathy with the drones going ... Another consideration is that retuning a complete tone is quite invasive - it is possible to get a Bb/F instrument without modification. They are rarer but also cheap because no one else plays in those keys... I'd have a chat with some like Theo Gibb (www.theboxplace.co.uk) who will be able to give you some options - he has stacks of old lachenal reeds from various restorations. He also knows the basics about pipes - most free reed restoriers won't and has done an excellent restoration job on a couple of concertinas for me already. cheers Rob Quoting Mike Dixonmsdi...@btinternet.com: I have a 20 Button Anglo C/G Lachenal which I had for years which I have done very little with. I am about to get it serviced ( more like a re-build I suspect!) and am considering getting it re-tuned to play along with NSP - either for me to have a go , or to lend to a friend so we can do some duets Would I be on the right lines to go for F/B Flat? I suspect at +20 cents? We are also looking at removing the bass on the left hand and putting some accidentals on the right - might be useful as I rarely use the bass buttons as such Any thoughts or advice Thanks Mike Dixon To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
Please can John's advice be etched on metal plates, and nailed to all bodhrans ? ;-) [Cajons too] Richard, (among whose dearest friends was once a superb bodhran player. Just a few are out there.) On 07/01/2011 09:41, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Nice one John! c -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Gibbons, John Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:50 PM To: Anthony Robb; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Pleasing everyone else in the room might be a priority for some, as well! I have heard too many so-called traditional musicians play to please themselves (and nobody else) not to add this health warning. You get them everywhere, but I recall the bloke who wound his flute up to E flat because that's the key Matt Molloy played in, though everyone else in the session was in D, and the one who played faster than everyone else because it was more exciting. I've been the latter one myself on occasion Think about how it sounds for the rest of the world, and you will play better. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb [anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 06 January 2011 18:19 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning --- On Thu, 6/1/11, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: It's a case of trying and seeing what you like. The other way round this would be for the piper not to play drones ... but I wouldn't recommend that approach. cheers Rob Sorry to disagree, Rob, but occasionally switching the drones off to let other instruments provide the accompaniment can be lovely. I would also recommend learning and practising mainly on the chanter alone. It is the way I was taught and was the Colin Caisley way presumably passed on from Tom Clough. When Colin Caisley was chairman of the NPS in the 60s the Society hired out a 'goose' (bellows, bag and chanter only) for people to try out the pipes. Recently I came across an article, from the 70s I guess, written by Paddy Maloney who suggests uillean pipers should learn on a 'goose' for 3 to 4 years before thinking about getting drones. The premise being that the chanter is where the music is created and so needs to be learnt before adding drones or regulators. He also extols the beauty and effectiveness of playing parts of a piece on solo chanter only and then adding accompaniment be it drones or other instruments to lift the sound. On a slightly related topic, people have commented on how well in tune the 3 beginner pipers in Windy Gyle Band play on the CD and have suggested that some digital trickery might be involved. This is absolutely not the case. All three have learnt to play on chanter only and two of them are now (after 3 years) beginning to add drones occasionally. The drones can add excitement like nothing else to the pipes sound but they can also mask some of the music at times. So my message would be follow your ears, try all the options and go with what works for you. Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
We've been at risk of straying onto the which instrument is best? territory here, methinks, but Jim's points are right, to my mind. And they bring me a few more thoughts which I hope are useful and not merely pompous! Some instruments are easier to make an acceptable sound on than others, (OK, acceptable to whom?) though I believe most to be equally hard to make play real music. Generalisations: Some, like harps, make a magic sound which attracts many people even if the player isn't that good, and can lure the player into thinking they're wonderful. Some, like the hurdy gurdy, are so fascinating that they attract people even when they aren't making a particularly nice noise: see above. Some, like squeeze boxes, easily fool the player into thinking they're doing a great job, because they are powerful: see above. Pipes, like fiddles, are hard even to get a decent sound from, but then need longer by far to turn that nice noise into music, and nsp's need more precision playing, I feel, than open-ended pipes, because of the very possibility of silence which Jim also mentioned as so important. And on all of these, making real music is then much harder, and tuning and setting up are both of prime importance. (Margaret Watchorn's article in the latest Journal is very much to the point.) On instruments like squeeze boxes it doesn't even occur to many players that adjustments are possible - it's tuned when you buy it, and that's it, sadly. String instruments may be hard to tune, but with the aid of ears.., or sadly, more often now, the electric tuner... they can be put into tune. Smallpipes, like hurdy-gurdies, depend a whole lot on the player to maintain the voice, and to go on doing so, and I suspect they're more demanding of constant attention than most instruments. And that's a skill which a lot of players need more confidence, and help, with. I know when mine sound right, (and thanks, Nigel, they do!!) but despite being very well shown by experts, I'm still not a reed maker, I hesitate to fiddle with a reed in case I make it worse, and I surely hesitate before adjusting a hole with a bit of shellac. And I wouldn't dare take any wood away. And yes, a really good player can make a poorer [insert instrument name here] sound better, and a music-less player is never going to make anything sound wonderful, but I do feel there are too many instruments of all sorts out there - whether harps, gurdies, squeeze boxes, fiddles or smallpipes, sold as a beginner's instrument to people who don't get the reward they deserve for lots of hard work, and may not even realise why. And that does perturb me on their behalf. Dunno if this helps at all. Regards, Richard. On 21/12/2010 11:09, Jim McGillivray wrote: Talking about expression outwith the context of tone, technique and rhythm is like talking about tone as detached from tuning. The most moving performances ar e always a combination of all three. One may play the greatest expression in the world, but if it is on an instrument the is not well tuned, it ain't music. and more of wisdom too, here edited -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
Na - keep it up! Far better than a boring silence and complacency :) All this reminds me of a sermon we once heard preached at a massed Morris event, by Father Kenneth Loveless, the concertina (previously owned by Wm Kimber) playing Rector. The essence of it was that Spirit was the most important thing. Without it, we were wasting our time. Keep it up! R. On 21/12/2010 21:01, Anthony Robb wrote: .. It would have saved us all, you especially, a huge chunk of time. Warmest best Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday et al
(I've missed a day on this, while I was daft enough to honour a gig in Hampstead: 1 hr 40 there, 7 hours 20 back. The joys of the soft south!) You're absolutely right, John. It is, to adapt an earlier comment, pointless comparing apples and potatoes. But since we've mentioned it I was going to write and comment that it's all down to so many elements of time, place, mood, etc. And before seeing yours below, was going to say that for me hearing Billy Pigg (interesting how often his name crops up in this) playing the Wild Hills of Wannie just Did It when I when I was about 18, had never even heard of Northumbrian smallpipes or any pipes other than GHB's, (as played by buskers when crossing the border on Scottish holidays) ... a seed was set, and ever since then I wanted to play these things. (Pity it took until I was in my mid 50's before actually pursuing them!) And it is enormously subjective. It's like foods, tastes vary so widely. I'm not surprised that Paddy Keenan's Blackbird is John Gibbons' defining one (quite agree!) Irish pipes, Irish tune (yes I know they're an English invention). We could go off topic and discuss which instruments do different jobs for different people - for me a one row melodeon does a fantastic job with some dance tunes, but is 'orrible even when played by a great Irish master for a slow air. But that's another big discussion, and I've take us off topic too often recently, so I won't suggest it :) It would be interesting to know how many people, either within the North Eastern fold or out of it, were first inspired by hearing Mr Pigg's playing, though. Best wishes, Richard. On 18/12/2010 17:51, John Dally wrote: Thanks to everyone for the edifying discussion. To me Doubleday seems to be saying, the NSP are a rude, wee thing with enough charm to make them worth preserving, and within its narrowest scope in its own way it's quite nice, really. Another way of looking at it is that he's saying fa\g a phiob bhochd, leave the poor pipes alone, which makes good sense to me too. All that is fair enough. Contrast that with George Sand's novel, The Bagpipers, which is truly inspired by the rude sounds of peasant instruments. I think she wrote about the same time as Doubleday. The discussion lost me when it took on the topic of most expressive instrument. Whatever gets you through the night, as the late, great Liverpudlian once sang. All music is nostalgic and so much depends on your frame of reference. When I first heard the NSP when I was about fifteen I was drinking tea in a close corner by a wood stove after a cold, wet day of scavaging fire wood from a logged off patch where alder and madrona were left to rot. My friend, Sandy Ross (somehow related to Colin), put a recording of Billy Pigg on the record player and I was hooked. If he had put a recording of the best violinist in the world I would have hurried out the door without finishing my tea. There is much more to the context of that moment, social and personal, that made it so important to me. But suffice it to say that for all it's many flaws and short comings the NSP are the only thing that works to express some things for me, and every time I hear and play them that moment of contentment and happiness shines through. Of course, I have many flaws and shortcomings, which explains a lot! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
I'll think more on what he meant when I have more time! For expression - I quite agree with you on fiddle tunes. On the other hand, there are expressive tunes written primarily for pipes, surely, where they sound superbly best on pipes? And it is truly hard for anyone to make them work with these, because of the very dynamic limitations you mention. When I had some lessons with Jean-Pierre Rasle on my first Swayne pipes, he rightly said that the old pipers (in France in his case) rated it much harder to make a good job of a slow air than a dance tune. And it's all subjective, ain't it! For me, I find the nsp's far more expressive than my very nice toned piano accordion, which has any amount of dynamic control. All best wishes, Richard. On 17/12/2010 22:46, Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Richard Doubleday wrote: The Northumberland small-pipe is fitted up upon the plan of construction common to all bagpipes aEUR that is to say, aEUR it consists of a pipe with stops, by means of which the melody is played, and of three longer pipes sounding different musical intervals in such a way as to produce a rude and imperfect accompaniment to the melody. Taking this in the context of his whole argument he seems to be saying that common forms of bagpipe have chanters which aren't in tune over their range and therefore clash with the constant reference point of the drones. But he then goes on to say that the special quality of the smallpipes is that they can be played in tune and make a melodious sound. It's interesting how we arrive at two contrasting interpretations of his words. For me he delights in the sound of the small-pipes. On the point of expression I've been moved to tears as much by the pipes as the fiddle. The question is, can they match the fiddle when playing the big fiddle tunes? I have to say after 45 years involvement at all levels in this music I have yet to find a single example. I would dearly love to as the pipes are my heritage. I heard them as a school boy and loved them more than any other instrument in the world, but loving them more than any other instrument is one thing, convincing myself they are the most expressive instrument in the world is another. As aye Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: key question
The only fitting response to this seems to me to picture the Charlie Brown cartoons - the image of Charlie with a sort of horizontal but wiggly line for his mouth - know the one I mean? Richard. On 15/12/2010 12:09, Francis Wood wrote: On 15 Dec 2010, at 12:05, Gibbons, John wrote: But Rob illustrates a simple feather duster - the 17 keyed ones are musically far more versatile... Is that a Peacock feather duster? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Clogging
I had various replies to this off list, so hope you don't mind a massed on-list reply. Thanks for them too, and apologies for a slight delay, we were busy becoming grandparents for the first time were bit pre-occupied and very pleased!! I realise various people had various reservations about the programmes I enthused about. I quite see the reservations - finances mis-aimed, not presenting a complete picture, selected musicians only, others not credited, and then the folk programme of dubious quality, and trad or not? etc., but intend to stick to my guns. I agree with lots of the points people made. I know there were lots of flaws... gwawn, it's TV!!.. but in the midst of so much repeatedly narcissistic self-referencing tat, with ever more paint-shopped celebrities doing ever more dumbed-down things - ... [no, hang on, I hardly ever watch TV, so can't really say that, but the bits I do see, and all the things I hear and read reported, don't inspire me to go anywhere near most of it! Those who do, correct me if I'm utterly wrong] ... - with a commercially pushed wannabe image of cool things to do which reeeaaally reaaally need you to buy expensive cool stuff, and particularly not just go out and have fun doing apparently unsophisticated but skilled things in a community, like traditional dance and music, (ha ha, Morris dancers they're all elderly gay drunks anyway, and folk dancing, always good for a laugh too), it was so refreshingly constructive to see lots of people having a great time being un-cool and practising doing these same creative things, relating to the tradition of their region, enjoying it, and encouraging other people to go and try it, with no holding back on show. And watching the reaction on the faces of the public who realised that indeed good street theatre is vitally good stuff, if only for 5 minutes. Yes, of course it was edited carefully. Do you detect a little rant, here, dear reader? In the non-NE dance sense! So now I'm a grandfather I'm allowed to be a grumpy old man, huh? And I hate watching children being taught that it's wrong, by the media and by carefully commercially-pushed peer-pressure, to have this very enjoyment, so as you'll realise from the above, it hit a nerve. And indeed it would be great to see it all done properly, but at least TV was showing it, if only on BBC4, and it's hopefully a thin end of a wedge. OK, back to the washing up. Salutations. Richard. On 11/12/2010 21:18, Richard York wrote: And a truly smashing hour it was! Cheered up our evening no end, it did. Stuff like this really is what we need now, it was truly inspiring. The 60's Folk prog which followed was a right trip down nostalgia lane :) What's happening to TV? - all this, and last night the super programme by the Unthanks about dancing round England. At this rate folk culture will be in danger of being not uncool with The Masses!! And I've watched more TV in the last two nights than I have for a month. Best wishes, Richard. On 11/12/2010 13:36, Anthony Robb wrote: Here's a link to a snippet of tonight's programme on clogging. [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11930757 Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11930757 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Clogging
And a truly smashing hour it was! Cheered up our evening no end, it did. Stuff like this really is what we need now, it was truly inspiring. The 60's Folk prog which followed was a right trip down nostalgia lane :) What's happening to TV? - all this, and last night the super programme by the Unthanks about dancing round England. At this rate folk culture will be in danger of being not uncool with The Masses!! And I've watched more TV in the last two nights than I have for a month. Best wishes, Richard. On 11/12/2010 13:36, Anthony Robb wrote: Here's a link to a snippet of tonight's programme on clogging. [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11930757 Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11930757 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipes with continuo?
Hi Dave, in haste - we have a mad w/e coming up rehearsing like crazy - thanks greatly for this. I had a quick look it deserves a lot longer reading, which I'm going to enjoy later on. Best wishes, Richard. On 02/12/2010 21:52, Dave S wrote: Hi Richard, [1]http://books.google.lu/books?id=VoQXAQAAIAAJprintsec=frontcoverdq= %22essays+in+musicology%22source=blots=ITEFvN0Hiisig=iIvdnoOEE_CRl_u bQ_wRLOiSuyQhl=enei=cRD4TOSQMY2dOrX-kbkIsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resul tresnum=1ved=0CBEQ6AEwAA#v=onepageqf=false The link is on google books and is about hornpipes, but may help towards a part answer to your question, have a look at the book essays in musicology ---page 150 regards Dave Singleton On 11/25/2010 6:50 PM, Richard York wrote: I was listening recently to a trio playing 17th/18th Cent. divisions on La Folia on the radio, and was struck afresh by how similar are some of the things appearing in the nsp variations. (And yet different.)[Special aside for Round the Horn listeners :) ] Divisions on viols or recorders were normally played with at least a bass, and/or a harpsichord or whatever, and our variations/divisions must come out of the same culture in the first place, whether it's later a parallel or a parent-child type development to get to where Peacock's sets arrived. So, given that pipes are generally thought of as a solo instrument, (correct me if not!) do we know at what stage of development the divorce from the continuo or ground bass instrument actually happened? Assuming it did. Do the smallpipes with their variations repertoire first appear having already made the musical separation, or was there any practice of playing them over a ground? (Please note, this *is* on topic!) Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [3]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3276 - Release Date: 11/24/10 08:34:0 0 -- References 1. http://books.google.lu/books?id=VoQXAQAAIAAJprintsec=frontcoverdq=%22essays+in+musicology%22source=blots=ITEFvN0Hiisig=iIvdnoOEE_CRl_ubQ_wRLOiSuyQhl=enei=cRD4TOSQMY2dOrX-kbkIsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=1ved=0CBEQ6AEwAA#v=onepageqf=false 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] semi-OT wireless mic query
Hello. Sorry, I'm wandering off the smallpipes topics again, but lots of people here have fingers in various musical pies and valuable experience. - and I do plan to be introducing smallpipes into our ceilidh band soon, so it's not entirely off topic! Please has anyone experience of the Accusound wireless voice mic system, for a band caller, for good or ill? (Headset mic ACS-17-1 @ £35.00 + VAT, Miniature wireless system AC-WS-4 @ £160.00 + VAT) Or other sets you might recommend, or avoid? This Accusound set's a lot cheaper than some: someone recommended us a Shure system , PGX1 PGX4, at around twice the cost, but if the Accusound is good I'm happy to have a bargain for our caller. If it's not I don't want us spending good money on poor gear. Any help most gratefully received. Second message, strictly ON topic follows soon! With thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Pipes with continuo?
I was listening recently to a trio playing 17th/18th Cent. divisions on La Folia on the radio, and was struck afresh by how similar are some of the things appearing in the nsp variations. (And yet different.)[Special aside for Round the Horn listeners :) ] Divisions on viols or recorders were normally played with at least a bass, and/or a harpsichord or whatever, and our variations/divisions must come out of the same culture in the first place, whether it's later a parallel or a parent-child type development to get to where Peacock's sets arrived. So, given that pipes are generally thought of as a solo instrument, (correct me if not!) do we know at what stage of development the divorce from the continuo or ground bass instrument actually happened? Assuming it did. Do the smallpipes with their variations repertoire first appear having already made the musical separation, or was there any practice of playing them over a ground? (Please note, this *is* on topic!) Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Help please
Thanks, Ian, for this link. Really useful, especially when it leads to Jakob Nielsen's pages, where I can feel virtuous about some bits my own site's design and learn that others need changing quite seriously! Richard. When I have had problems like this I often go back and re-read and angryish rant from the great Scottish singer Dick Gaughan which I came across when I first started setting up my own site. In someways it is a bit dated (what is Netscape..?) but the underlying argument is solidfinding out how to write in basic html is better than relying on proprietary web writing programs that can actually work against you. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JulSep/att-0200/rant.htm Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Sage Radio3 prog
Greetings from the rainswept Midlands! Radio 3's Words Music last night was from the Sage, largely with NE theme, and three Tickells much in evidence, including some piping, singing, words, local choir, etc. [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vf5cn/Words_and_Music_Free_T hinking_2010_Celebration/ Available for the rest of this week. Best wishes, Richard. -- References 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vf5cn/Words_and_Music_Free_Thinking_2010_Celebration/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Sage Radio3 prog
Greetings from the rainswept Midlands! Radio 3's Words Music last night was from the Sage, largely with NE theme, and three Tickells much in evidence, including some piping, singing, words, local choir, etc. [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vf5cn/Words_and_Music_Free_T hinking_2010_Celebration/ Available for the rest of this week. Best wishes, Richard. -- References 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vf5cn/Words_and_Music_Free_Thinking_2010_Celebration/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
Me too! And while between the day job taking up silly hours, and workmen knocking the house about, I haven't had time to more than gloss any of this last part, yes please - go on. I look forward to getting time, and a lack of thunderous hammering, to play this material this w/e - on pipes I promise! - and it's fascinating. And I'm most grateful for the addition to the Gurdy repertoire!! Thank you. Richard. On 04/11/2010 18:01, Richard Shuttleworth wrote: I second that! Richard - Original Message - From: Dave S david...@pt.lu To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night? Original Message Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night? Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 18:33:22 +0100 From: Dave S [1]david...@pt.lu To: Matt Seattle [2]theborderpi...@googlemail.com Hey Matt, carry on for me -- it's well worth the bandwidth, plus we get to see some new works in progress ciao Dave S On 11/4/2010 5:56 PM, Matt Seattle wrote: Before you read on - is anyone besides John Gibbons, Julia Say and myself interested in this? Seriously, please say so, I'd like to know, because if not, we can carry on the discussion privately. If anyone thinks the three of us are crazy, I would like to point out that I have been crazy for longer than them. I have refrained from reading Julia's and John's versions till I made mine public. I was very taken with this tune at the time of the second Bewick edition (1998) and used to play it a lot. I am pleased that (two) others also enjoy it. I note that it received zero attention until Richard York's hurdy-gurdy query, which is a sobering thought regarding the benefits of publication. You may need to add line breaks, I have just pasted my text as is. X:1 T:Where Hast Thou Been All The Night? C:R Reavely ms (strs 1-3) C:M Seattle (strs 5-8) Aug 1998 M:6/8 R:Air K:G e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dgf dgB|dgB c2e|dgf dgB|dgf d2e| dgf dgB|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dgf d2e| dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dgf d2e| dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e| d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|dgf d2e| d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e| d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [4]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3236 - Release Date: 11/03/10 20:34:0 0 -- References 1. mailto:david...@pt.lu 2. mailto:theborderpi...@googlemail.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
I will, and will let you know.
Not tonight though, sorry - 4.45 a.m. up this morning to drive to work
and a long day ... I'm off to bed next!
Richard.
On 04/11/2010 19:58, Gibbons, John wrote:
Give it a go on the gurdy too -
It will be interesting to know if this could have been the tune you asked about.
Does it lie as well under the fingers on a hurdy-gurdy as on NSP?
John
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
Richard York [rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk]
Sent: 04 November 2010 18:42
To: NSP group
Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
Me too!
And while between the day job taking up silly hours, and workmen
knocking the house about, I haven't had time to more than gloss any of
this last part, yes please - go on.
I look forward to getting time, and a lack of thunderous hammering, to
play this material this w/e - on pipes I promise! - and it's fascinating.
And I'm most grateful for the addition to the Gurdy repertoire!!
Thank you.
Richard.
On 04/11/2010 18:01, Richard Shuttleworth wrote:
I second that!
Richard
- Original Message - From: Dave Sdavid...@pt.lu
To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. sitensp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 1:34 PM
Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
Original Message
Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 18:33:22 +0100
From: Dave S [1]david...@pt.lu
To: Matt Seattle [2]theborderpi...@googlemail.com
Hey Matt,
carry on for me -- it's well worth the bandwidth, plus we get to see
some new works in progress
ciao
Dave S
On 11/4/2010 5:56 PM, Matt Seattle wrote:
Before you read on - is anyone besides John Gibbons, Julia Say and
myself interested in this? Seriously, please say so, I'd like to know,
because if not, we can carry on the discussion privately.
If anyone thinks the three of us are crazy, I would like to point out
that I have been crazy for longer than them.
I have refrained from reading Julia's and John's versions till I made
mine public. I was very taken with this tune at the time of the second
Bewick edition (1998) and used to play it a lot. I am pleased that
(two) others also enjoy it. I note that it received zero attention
until Richard York's hurdy-gurdy query, which is a sobering thought
regarding the benefits of publication.
You may need to add line breaks, I have just pasted my text as is.
X:1
T:Where Hast Thou Been All The Night?
C:R Reavely ms (strs 1-3)
C:M Seattle (strs 5-8) Aug 1998
M:6/8
R:Air
K:G
e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|dgf dgB|dgB c2e|dgf dgB|dgf d2e|
dgf dgB|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dgf
d2e|
dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dgf d2e|
dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ Bcd|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/G/g/G/f/G/
d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e|
d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/B/G/B/d/B/
g/B/G/B/d/B/|dgf d2e|
d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]
[|:e/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/
=f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/
g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e|
d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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[NSP] Re: Cymbal
And to complete the circle, there's a recording of both nsp's and gurdy at http://www.richardhaynesmusicservices.com/page6.htm I'm not saying it's state-of-the-art playing on either, but it's a very interesting and rather nice sound combination. It's only fair to read his comments first: it's track 8. And you can see the organistrum carving from Santiago in the VA museum's castings gallery. Assuming it hasn't gone the way of their instruments gallery and been closed yet. It's rather pleasing to add that the Hurdy Gurdy discussion group currently has a photo of a carving from York Minster showing both a gurdy and bagpipes. Not smallpipes, but pleasant that a certain amount of twinning is going on here :) Richard. On 02/11/2010 23:47, Colin wrote: All you need to know: http://www.hurdygurdy.farmcom.net/front.html I actually play a flatback gurdy (not by this maker) from Germany made by Helmut Seibert.. There's something about drones.. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 10:37 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organistrum for another name, a description, and a good picture. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Philip Gruar [phi...@gruar.clara.net] Sent: 02 November 2010 17:50 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal Does this sound familiar to anyone else who knows more about this field of expertise? Yes. The symphony - more or less as you describe it, was a mediaeval version of the hurdy-gurdy. One of the best illustrations - of the big two-man version - is carvrd over the doorway of Santiago de Compostela cathedral. No time to write more just now - I'll post links and references later if anyone is interested, and unless someone else puts it all up here first! Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune hunt: OT but I hope interesting!
.. that's a cunning way of reminding me that while I still have your original yellow Bewick book, I ought to buy the new one too, Matt :-) I will order one anyway, but do you mean by this you think it's not Lord Randall either? (Sorry, being thick here - it'll probably be clearer once I own the book!) And yes, consensus evidence points firmly at Jolly Good Fellow for Moll Brook Marlborough. Best wishes, Richard. On 01/11/2010 11:28, Matt Seattle wrote: Where have you been all the night? she describes as a Scotch Tune. It's tempting to think she's mis-remembered the line in Billy Boy, See the Note in the recently published NPS edition of Bewicks Pipe Tunes, which has a tune of the title which is *not* Billy Boy Might also possibly apply to Lord Randal Then there's Moll Brook I presume that the other responses relate to the For he's a jolly good fellow tune - ? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Tune hunt: OT but I hope interesting!
I'm hunting tunes. Nowt to do specifically with smallpipes, but at least one is Scots. And I know there are some mighty experienced tune historians among you And I have looked in Farne, Matt!:-) Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed Old Sarah a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the cymbal. He lists tune names she gives. Some, like The Turnpike Gate and At Patrick's Day in the Morning are on The sessions listing, though I can't know how much or little they've changed. Some others I can find, or know already, but I'm drawing a blank on three, and will be very grateful for any pointers. Where have you been all the night? she describes as a Scotch Tune. It's tempting to think she's mis-remembered the line in Billy Boy, but if there's a title out there it would be good to know. Then there's Moll Brook, and Harlequin Hamlet. Some others she mentions are trad. tunes like Haste[n] to the Wedding and The Gal I left behind me so while these may be stage tunes, it's apparent she was playing traditional dance tunes. She also says that she played Polkas, but doesn't name any. Thanks for looking - thanks for any info. Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune hunt: OT but I hope interesting!
It's difficult to know. I don't want to hijack too much time from the pipes here, and am asking the hurdy gurdy group to share any views on this. There are arguments for and against both dulcimer gurdy as we know it, in the text. Thanks for the help, though! Best wishes, Richard. On 31/10/2010 18:28, Francis Wood wrote: On 31 Oct 2010, at 16:13, Richard York wrote: Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed Old Sarah a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the cymbal. Hurdy gurdy has been used variously in the past to describe a number of very d ifferent instruments. I wonder whether cymbal is related to cimbalom (various spellings), the East ern European dulcimer? Francis -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cymbal
Fantastic again! For a piping group this is really providing me with great hurdy gurdy stuff! Thank you, Colin. As with John, I expect if I'd typed the right question phrased the right way into Google... but you did and I'm delighted. As you say, it's not 100% conclusive, but if that's the contemporary illustration Mayhew would presumably have objected if that was not what she played. And it certainly goes with the text describing her guide accompanying her. Best wishes and more thanks, Richard. On 31/10/2010 19:07, Colin wrote: It's generally accepted that she played the hurdy gurdy. http://dl.tufts.edu/view_image.jsp?pid=tufts:MS004.002.054.DO01.00011 Hurdy gurdies were given to some to be able to make a living rather than going to the workhouse etc. That illustration is from 1851 (taken from an earlier daguerreotype) so she was still alive but, of course, unlikely to be taken from life (and we do all know how accurate newspapers, journals and books are, don't we). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:13 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal Hi Anthony, Thanks for this suggestion, which does indeed seem logical. The Hurdy gurdy net group were talking about early names for the gurdy recently, and this is where Old Sarah came up. Mayhew, who was an experienced journalist who interviewed hundreds of street people, so ought to know what he talked about, called it a hurdy gurdy. There's a Scots reference in the 16th C to Cymphan, thought to be from the older symphony and that's one explanation. She was fairly old when she talked to him, and from the early repertoire she had she was possibly taught by an Irish or Scots musician, so a misremembered Cymphan type word may have become Cymbal. But I certainly wouldn't go to the stake on that! The old lady also talked about having to keep the works covered so that pennies punters threw didn't get in and damage them. She spoke of having to learn tunes, and mastering them over a few weeks at first, so it wasn't a barrel organ type hurdy gurdy; and the dulcimer is lacking in interior works, so I'm fairly happy going with the gurdy as we now know it - there are pictures of people playing them on London streets. Thanks all for tolerating this excursion outside the Land Of Smallpipe. Best wishes, Richard. On 31/10/2010 16:38, Anthony Robb wrote: On 31 Oct Richard York wrote lots including: Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed Old Sarah a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the cymbal. Richard Can't help with the tunes I'm afraid but it might be that the instrument she calls the cymbal is in fact the cimbalom. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom. Good luck with your quest. Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cymbal
Fantastic again! For a piping group this is really providing me with great hurdy gurdy stuff! Thank you, Colin. As with John, I expect if I'd typed the right question phrased the right way into Google... but you did and I'm delighted. As you say, it's not 100% conclusive, but if that's the contemporary illustration Mayhew would presumably have objected if that was not what she played. And it certainly goes with the text describing her guide accompanying her. Best wishes and more thanks, Richard. On 31/10/2010 19:07, Colin wrote: It's generally accepted that she played the hurdy gurdy. http://dl.tufts.edu/view_image.jsp?pid=tufts:MS004.002.054.DO01.00011 Hurdy gurdies were given to some to be able to make a living rather than going to the workhouse etc. That illustration is from 1851 (taken from an earlier daguerreotype) so she was still alive but, of course, unlikely to be taken from life (and we do all know how accurate newspapers, journals and books are, don't we). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:13 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal Hi Anthony, Thanks for this suggestion, which does indeed seem logical. The Hurdy gurdy net group were talking about early names for the gurdy recently, and this is where Old Sarah came up. Mayhew, who was an experienced journalist who interviewed hundreds of street people, so ought to know what he talked about, called it a hurdy gurdy. There's a Scots reference in the 16th C to Cymphan, thought to be from the older symphony and that's one explanation. She was fairly old when she talked to him, and from the early repertoire she had she was possibly taught by an Irish or Scots musician, so a misremembered Cymphan type word may have become Cymbal. But I certainly wouldn't go to the stake on that! The old lady also talked about having to keep the works covered so that pennies punters threw didn't get in and damage them. She spoke of having to learn tunes, and mastering them over a few weeks at first, so it wasn't a barrel organ type hurdy gurdy; and the dulcimer is lacking in interior works, so I'm fairly happy going with the gurdy as we now know it - there are pictures of people playing them on London streets. Thanks all for tolerating this excursion outside the Land Of Smallpipe. Best wishes, Richard. On 31/10/2010 16:38, Anthony Robb wrote: On 31 Oct Richard York wrote lots including: Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed Old Sarah a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the cymbal. Richard Can't help with the tunes I'm afraid but it might be that the instrument she calls the cymbal is in fact the cimbalom. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom. Good luck with your quest. Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Proudlock's Hornpipe - OT: General M
Greetings, I expect to be corrected, but I was told that the story was that General M deliberately marched his men down slowly so that while he hadn't overtly changed sides yet, they would arrive, O dear what a pity chaps, too late to actually be there in time to prevent the Royalist revival he really wanted, then later became much more open about it. Hence the lovely stopped step of that Morris dance. From Claude M Simpson, The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music, 309 (footnote to 'The Highlanders' March'): 'A tune known variously as Monk's March, The Lord Monck's March and General Monk's March is found in The Dancing Master, 3d ed. supplements; Musicks Hand-maid, 1678; Musicks Recreation on the Viol, Lyra-way, 1682; volume two of The Dancing Master, 3d ed., 1718, and of Walsh's Compleat Country Dancing-Master, 1719. It does not fit the Euing ballad [Number 160, 'A Loyal Subjects Admonition, or a true Song of Brittains Civil Wars', which cites as an alternative tune 'General Moncks right march that was sounded before him from Scotland to London'] nor is it adapted to other ballads citing such tune titles as Monk's March, My Lord Monks March to London, General Monks March, General Monk hath advanc'd himself since he came from the Tower, Monk hath confounded, General Monk sail'd through the Gun-Fleet, General Monk was a nobleman. These tune titles, associated with ballads written in a variety of rhythmic and stanzaic patterns, have nothing in common save their reference to the first Duke of Albemarle.' Not sure if this helps, but there it is. By the way, where does My Faith it is an Oaken Staff fit into the history of all this? Mere coincidence or hymn writer working off a trad tune again? In Googling it I'm told that The Staff of Faith tune is a traditional Swiss melody. Richard. On 11/10/2010 18:02, Ian Lawther wrote: Monck's March is an old tune now associated with morris dancing. General Monck was a parliamentarian in the civil war largely involved in actions in Scotland. After the death of Oliver Cromwell and his replacement by Thomas Cromwell the Commonwealth started to collapse. Monck changed allegiances and and marched his regiment south from Coldstream in 1660 to restore the monarchy. His regiment later became the Coldstream Guards. How soon after these events the tune commemorating his march was written I don't know. Another tune called Lord Monck's March was in the 1657 edition of Playford and predated the famous march south so was probably simply named for him. I think the connections between the morris tune Monck's March and Proudlock's Hornpipe are pretty clear. Some years ago I played an adaptation of Proudlock's on the half-longs in the Society competitions and have to say that when I made the arrangement I referred back to the morris tune (published in the key of A in the Morris Ring Handbook) as a starting point. Ian [1]rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: Morning - there are some Proudlocks in my village doing some family research and they've been aware of the tune for some time. I said I'd see what I could find ... Does anyone have any history, apocryphillia or references for the tune? Here's what I have so far... - The earliest printed reference I know of is the First NPS tunebook. - TOPIC have it played by Billy Ballentine on piccolo (1954 I think) - Various sources cross-reference it to the much older Monk's March. I can see the similarity but it's distinct. I'm also unaware of any reference to the Monk's March in older NSP related manuscripts - Often (mis)attributed to James Hill - Proudlock's Fancy is a different tune - Peter Kennedy recorded Jack Armstrong playing it in the 50s or 60s where it was listed as Lewis Proudlock's Hornpipe. There's one compilation CD (Bagpipes of Britain Ireland CD-SDL416) where the unattributed sleeve notes say: 'Lewie was a famous local fiddler and fisherman who composed many tunes. He had no fixed job and moved around the county. His grand-daughter used to play with Jack.' If 'Lewie' wrote it then that would date it somewhere in the 70 years preceding the recording... I've never come across any of the many tunes he composed. The only Lewis Proudlock I could find in this period was born in Swinden (sic). He's listed in the 1851 census as being 12 yrs old. - There was another Lewis Proudlock who was a Coquetdale Poet but he was a bit earlier (d.1816) cheers Rob To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:rob@milecastle27.co.uk 2.
[NSP] Re: Sir Sidney Smith's March - Clough version
Subjective indeed... especially when John Clare gives the tune ( I believe in its non-abridged version, but I'm sorry, I'm too tired to go check just now) as a Gavotte by Handel. :) Richard. On 08/10/2010 20:35, Pauline Cato wrote: It was me who picked this tune for the course - partly because it has a few nice bits in it which aren't in the NPS Bk1 version and partly because of that harmony line in bars 5 6. I was planning on having a bit of a discussion with the group about how closely we should stick to what is in the manuscript and at what point we decide that something may not be working musically (even though it is Clough!). Obviously this is rather subjective Pauline - Original Message - From: Julia Say [1]julia@nspipes.co.uk To: [2]nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 10:50 AM Subject: [NSP] Sir Sidney Smith's March - Clough version I have been working on music for the Whitley Bay piping week and have discovered an anomaly in the above tune in the Clough book, p. 122. (actually, there were two in the MS but I see I've corrected one in the book.) Bar 5, the centre bar of the second pair of staves, has a complicated tuplet in the harmony stave. I have decided this bar is better represented (and is possibly more playable) by taking the dot off the previous crotchet (a G) and splitting the tuplet into two pairs of semiquaver triplets ((3Bdg (3dBG). These are matched with the quaver - 2 semi-quavers of the tune at this point (G2dc for the abc literate). The other MS error was in the following bar, where the demi-semi-quaver pattern at the end of the harmony stave was originally written as 4 semi-quavers with a 4- tuplet marking over them. Moral: no matter how famous the writer / composer, always question apparent illogicalities in anything they write down! Hope this helps someone, at least. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:julia@nspipes.co.uk 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune Information
Kettle Drum is in the 1650 Playford's Dancing Master, for one. Dunno about its actual origins, but that's a collected and published source for it. Best wishes, Richard. On 28/09/2010 15:53, Greenley, Gordon wrote: Does anyone have any information on the origins of the following tunes? * Because he was a bonny lad * Golden eagle * Gentle maiden * Kettle drum * Holmes' fancy * Hazlewood * My home Many thanks Gordon Greenley -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: 4-bar reels
I grovel.
- and of course you're right.
Yours in deep humility,
Richard.
On 08/09/2010 15:26, Julia Say wrote:
On 8 Sep 2010, Gibbons, John wrote:
Probably not a typo.
No, John is correct. Not a typo.
There are quite a few of these scattered through society publications (and
elsewhere, but I'll stick to what I know about). As a tune form they are
widespread, but survive alive and played in our area and Shetland for just two.
Try The Steam Plough and Harlow Hill Lads (early C19) in NPS 3 , Dear Tobacco
(prob. C17) in the Charlton Memorial (amongst many others therein).
As to who writes those now? well here you go:
(fans of simple abc may need to remove the mtex dialect bits)
X:5943
T:The Snow Wind
C:J Say, Jan 2009
M:C|
L:1/8
E:11
K:G
DF|:G2\
\segno r
BG dGeG|cBAG FGAD/F/|G2 BG dGeG|1 cAFA G2 GD/F/:|2 cAFA\
E:11
G2 Gd||\
g2 eg dgBg|Ggfg agfg|g2 eg dgBg|\
agfd g2 gd|*
g2 eg dgBg|Ggfg agfg|g2 eg dgBg|cAFA G2 \
GD/F/\
\zcharnote s {D.S.}
||Ggaf\
\zcharnote t {Last time}
g2 g2||**
There's a picture of this on my Facebook page which can be seen by all at:
[1]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=218192l=7627d258f1id=10860900639
(or so the Facebook instructions tell me!)
I am not the only one who writes them, nor is this the only one I have.
Hope this helps
Julia
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References
1.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=218192l=7627d258f1id=10860900639
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[NSP] Re: Musical Instruments Museum in Brussels
Just take a sleeping bag and several days' food with you - once in, it's difficult to leave, as you keep on seeing just one more thing you Really need to look at... Richard. On 24/08/2010 09:09, Edric Ellis wrote: Hi all, Apologies if this is common knowledge - couldn't see it mentioned in the archives. If you're in Brussels, the Musical Instruments Museum ([1]http://www.mim.be/en) is very well worth a visit. They have 60 sets of bagpipes of all types, including a musette de cour (with a very elaborate bag cover that makes it look like some sort of cushion rather than a set of pipes), and a set of NSP (Reid I believe). Cheers, Edric. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.mim.be/en 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Skinny-piping
There would seem to be both pro- and con- tune titles on the subject, depending on your point of view and the weather. Hoop her and ungird her. Tom Hackett's Dream Delight of the men of Caernarvon The General Toast John the Red Nose, Carolan's Draught Bonny at mid-afternoon - morn being far too chilly! Richard. On 16/08/2010 15:52, Francis Wood wrote: On 12 Aug 2010, at 09:55, Richard York wrote: a possible need for a new sub-group within the NPS, the naturist section Since August is still with us, should we compile a suitable repertoire? Francis -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Bag cloth
Thanks to all for the wealth of information. Barry's reply suggests a possible need for a new sub-group within the NPS, the naturist sectionon second thoughts, I don't even want to picture it!! Best wishes, Richard. On 11/08/2010 22:09, Barry Say wrote: But why bother with a cover. With a really nice leather bag such as Jackie Boyce or a leather craftworker would make, why not go au naturelle. Barry I'm replacing the cover for my bag, Has anyone out there any experience of other cloths and their potential drawbacks? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Bag cloth
On 12/08/2010 11:05, Richard York wrote: Go on, someone plase suggest tattooing the bag :) R On 12/08/2010 11:01, Philip Gruar wrote: Does this still work if the skin is covered with tattoos? Philip - Original Message - From: Barry Say [1]barr...@nspipes.co.uk To: NSP group [2]nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Bag cloth Does anyone remember a thread from the distant past when a now well-respected piper suggested playing in one's skin was a good way of discovering bellows leaks? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:barr...@nspipes.co.uk 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Bag cloth
Greetings. I'm replacing the cover for my bag, due to replacing the leather bag with a longer necked one, which would otherwise poke out in an undignified way. I've only ever seen velvet used on bag covers so far. Is it just a fine tradition, or is there some reason why other cloths may be inappropriate? Has anyone out there any experience of other cloths and their potential drawbacks? If I do end up with a different cloth, do I get excommunicated, or burnt, or anything like that? Best wishes, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Rosslyn Castle
Rosslyn/Roslyn/Roslin Castle is a tune I love, and it's in the NPS books. I'd like to find more about the origin. The story about the mason, from Andy May on his CD insert, is a great tale, but of course doesn't explain the tune's beginnings - I sort of assumed from there it was perhaps a lament related to the terrible deed. But it never seems very Scottish in its shape - all those major 7th leaps in a minor tune. We have a CD by the Welsh triple harp player Llio Rhydderch (OT thought... so was Lliopatra really Welsh, not Egyptian??!) who is very steeped in her tradition and takes it very studiously. She writes that there's a tradition that a relation of the famously Eponymous David of the White Rock, (and he died early mid C19th), travelled to Rosslyn Castle where he worked as a gardener, and took the tune with him from Wales. Certainly, once you hear her playing of it, it's absolutely Welsh. And very much the same feel as the David Of etc tune. On t'other hand she doesn't actually say who wrote it or when. While it's not strictly a Northumbrian Question, it's now in the nsp repertoire, so does anyone know any more of it, please? Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rosslyn Castle
Thanks Matt, I had a suspicion you'd have more information! The story is indeed that of the Apprentice Pillar. Thanks for the correction about the building. Without casting any doubt on the claims of Oswald to have written it down, the date of 1746 does relate nicely to the possibility of it having travelled with this relation of the Welsh DavidofRock. Might Oswald have heard it, or McGibbons if 'twas him, have heard it and worked from there? I won't push for comment on the story - what about the Scottishness of Welshness of the shape of the tune? You know far more than most about the harmonic melodic structure of different traditions of tunes. Any comment on that? Best wishes, Richard. On 26/04/2010 13:57, Matt Seattle wrote: An early sighting is in Oswald CPC Vol 4 where it is called Roselana Castle: 2 strains of air followed by 2 of variation followed by 4 'Brisk' 6/8 jig strs. The tune has been attributed to Oswald - it was previously published by McGibbon as Glamis Castle in 1746 but Purser's notes in the CDR edition of CPC lend support to a claim for Oswald - the two men knew each other and were both Freemasons. I don't have Andy's CD but if his story is about a mason I suspect it relates to the Apprentice Pillar in Roslin Chapel - a different building. The Welsh story - no comment. On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Richard York [1]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk wrote: Rosslyn/Roslyn/Roslin Castle is a tune I love, and it's in the NPS books. I'd like to find more about the origin. The story about the mason, from Andy May on his CD insert, is a great tale, but of course doesn't explain the tune's beginnings - I sort of assumed from there it was perhaps a lament related to the terrible deed. But it never seems very Scottish in its shape - all those major 7th leaps in a minor tune. We have a CD by the Welsh triple harp player Llio Rhydderch (OT thought... so was Lliopatra really Welsh, not Egyptian??!) who is very steeped in her tradition and takes it very studiously. She writes that there's a tradition that a relation of the famously Eponymous David of the White Rock, (and he died early mid C19th), travelled to Rosslyn Castle where he worked as a gardener, and took the tune with him from Wales. Certainly, once you hear her playing of it, it's absolutely Welsh. And very much the same feel as the David Of etc tune. On t'other hand she doesn't actually say who wrote it or when. While it's not strictly a Northumbrian Question, it's now in the nsp repertoire, so does anyone know any more of it, please? Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Reeds
What a great idea indeed seems to be building momentum. I really enjoyed watching Andy May's demo at Halsway of making/scraping a reed. I suspect it's not quite as easy as he made it look :-) but as you say, it's a skill we all need. And fiddle tuning - while I was in a music shop some time ago a woman came in with a violin, and asked them to tune it. Apparently she'd been doing this once a week for ages! Best wishes, Richard. R. Evans wrote: For ten years or more I have been using second-grade chanter reeds (and spare chanters) in hands-on workshops for the Lowland and Borders Pipers Society. This allows people to practice adjusting reeds (and, indeed, simply learn to handle them properly) without any risk to their own pipes. The basics of reed adjustment and setting are pretty easy, but need to be learned like anything else. I think this sort of thing should be part of any piping instruction day/course and that players should be firmly encouraged in this direction. Not being able to do this, or recognise when it needs doing, would be like playing a fiddle without being able to tune it. Come to think of it, there are a few people in that position too! Cheers Richard -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
This is especially true if you have the skill and the right saw to cut the whole thing in two with a decent straight line which meets up with itself in all the right places... Richard. Paul Gretton wrote: BTW, anyone thinking of building their own (wooden) case might benefit from the following tip: Don't make the two parts separately - the case itself and the lid -- and then try to fit them together. What the factories do is build the case closed and then saw it open to create the two parts. This makes the woodwork much simpler and you get a more accurate joint. I was only alerted to this AFTER already building a couple of cases. D'oh... J Cheers, Paul Gretton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
And beware of the Wrong sort of foam! For various instrument cases some years ago I got this superb stuff from a car upholsterer: foam-backed cloth with quite a raised nap - smashing and quite classy looking .. for the first 12 - 15 years. After which the foam de-natures and fills the case, and the instrument, with really annoying tiny bits of foam. Ideal in a hurdy gurdy. More recently I used free sheets of expanded polystyrene packing from some flat-pack furniture, cut glued in place with charity shop velvet curtain over the top. (PVA or Copydex) Heat impact protection, and the curtain looks classy as long as it's plain and dark. Richard. Victor Eskenazi wrote: .. Oh, then of course comes putting in the foam padding... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
There are just too many obvious openings for unkind remarks about why one would bother to take the Gurdy out before trying the test but as a gurdy player I'm far too kind to make them. :-) Richard. There is a Belgian on the HurdyGurdy list, who is in the military, who has tried to blow up his Pelican case (empty) with grenades but it survived intact. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
And there's also the great mix of Andy May's pipes Sophie Ball's fiddle on his Happy Hours CD. Smashing. (Official Disclaimer: the terms, Great mix and smashing here represent expressions of personally held opinions of musical taste, for which I alone am responsible, and with which others may find they wish to disagree. This is their right, just as some people love Wagner's Operas and I don't, despite a classical musical education. But I like this mix.) :-) Richard. rosspi...@aol.com wrote: The High Level Ranters were based on the mix of fiddle and pipes that I had discovered with Forster Charlton in the lat 1950's. Colin R -Original Message- From: John Dally dir...@gmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:45 Subject: [NSP] NSP duet with other instruments I've been listening to a lot of UP flat set and fiddle duets, and playing my SSP in A a bit with a fiddler. I'm smitten with the sound mix of low pipe and fiddle. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments now OT
Haven't tried cyanide, but did do Wagner with passionate Wagner-phile 'A' level Music teacher many years ago. Sorry, Paul, it was as a result of that I got to dislike them... but hope you enjoy The Ring Cycle! Best wishes and apologies to all for another OT excursion! Richard. Francis Wood wrote: On 7 Feb 2010, at 13:38, Paul Gretton wrote: Nice one, Richard. But did you know that a recent survey showed that 96.83% of people who say that they don't like Wagner's operas have never actually heard or attended one? ;-) Actually I don't like cyanide. Never tried it though, I must admit! Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: vachement bien!
Vraiment!!! Merci. christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jedd2FiZTqM -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jedd2FiZTqM To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: bag shape
As I understand it, the shape you get if a cartoonist wants to depict a drop of water: pointy top smoothly widening to rounded belly shape, and in my mind, the top is not straight but bends off to the side the chanter's going to go. Again, like the cartoon drop of water. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. More mathematical descriptions are certainly available, and will be comprehensible to some Richard. Francis Wood wrote: I've seen the 'tear-drop' description used several times in this discussion. I think I know what it means but that remains my guess only.. For many others reading this discussion (if they are) it must be a fairly puzzling and unsatisfactory description. What exactly are we talking about here? Francis On 28 Jan 2010, at 10:57, Philip Gruar wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: bag shape
Thanks greatly to one and all for these - great food for thought here. I'm interested that everyone's addressed the matter of how to make the existing bag shape comfortable, but no-one has offered experience of the tear-drop shape - are they very rare, or just deeply heretical? Meanwhile I shall try every position from armpit downwards for my existing bag, and seriously examine the matter of neck length. Its neck, not mine. (Thanks too, Mike S, for the off-list advice on position photo's - I'll try that.) I imagine, Barry, that bellows blowpipe length also came into your shifts of bag position? Interesting too the matter of which way the seam goes. I was convinced at first that it was the seam which was getting to me, but now think it's the bulge of the square bag shape - as suggested earlier in this string. Thanks Francis too for pointing up the pics on my own website... in fairness in have to say that while the Jon Swayne huge Flemish set and renaissance-type smaller set (both all brown) are comfortable, Jon does make the seam the modern way round. In the case of the massive Flemish set I've had to mend the protective strip on the outside of the seam more than once, as it's stuck rather than stitched in place. The Jim Parr medieval gaita-type ones (black bag, light boxwood) and the little hummelschen both have the seams on the inside and are very comfortable indeed. I've never had problems with the seasoning in them. Best wishes, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: bag shape
This thread is great - thanks again all. Resonance affected by neck shape, air flow etc - forgive my ignorance but does the presence of a bit of foam in the top of the split stock, put there I assume to prevent either seasoning escaping into chanter or loose reed escaping into bag, not affect airflow more than bag shape? Does this still apply if the foam plug is in place? And stitching leather is easier for some jobs when it's wet, and for turning it inside out enormously so. All ye best, Richard. Dave S wrote: Hi Richard, Other slight annoyances occuring when messing with bags/neck is resonance or a change in the resistance to airflow. Some bag/neck shapes give rise to top A and top B sounding flat at which point the unsuspecting will start chopping or scraping reeds - BEWARE Dave Singleton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: the Guardian today....
Unmanned spy drone says the article. I have an image of a little hovering drone which buzzes round nsp mass playings to check on the tunings of everyone present. Depending on the personality of the group leader/teacher, offenders are either helpfully rectified or dispatched. ( in case who's gone mad??) Richard. just in case you think I've gone quite quite mad http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/23/cctv-sky-police-plan-drones Anita To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] bag shape
I'd welcome comments/advice on nsp bag shape, please. There's the conventional shape, and now I learn there's the tear-drop shape. I've been playing other (non Scottish) bagpipes for quite a long time, with various shaped bags, from medieval/renaissance large tear drop, held more in front of the body, to nsp-like but bigger on Jon Swayne D border pipes, and have got used to comfortable with them. I'm still finding my way on nsp's... I suspect this is a life-long state... but find that after some 10 or so minutes of playing I'm getting a restricted left hand movement, as my arm's getting pressure from the bulge of the bag against my forearm where it restricts the blood flow or something; this is a problem I don't get with my other sets. I've tried varying my arm position/bag position/drone angle/position of jaw/general earth energy and leyline alignment etc, but haven't yet cracked the problem. It seems logical to expect that the tear-drop shape, with most of the bag further back under the arm, is going to leave my forearm more relaxed and less pressured. But until you've tried anything you don't know, and I'd like to hear from anyone who has, please, either positive or negative experience of this shape. With thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Yes - thanks! R Julia Say wrote: On 13 Jan 2010, Richard York wrote: Julia, I love this word snotomer but confess I haven't met it before, neither has Google, it appears... I can sort of guess... Please explain, with footnotes where appropriate :) I worked for 10 years in a polymer research unit in the 90s, and the word was current then. Polymers are (and this is the very simple version, folks) long chains of carbon molecules with various different bits hanging off the sides. So methane (which has one carbon atom and four hydrogen) is a gas. Propane and butane, which are straight chains of 3 and 4 carbons respectively are also gases , but heavier. As the carbon chain gets longer the substance turns first liquid (think octane - 8 carbons), and then - eventually - solid (think paraffin wax). So at some stage the length is such that a semi-solid substance results - snotomers. I think you can guess why the name was applied. Think also the stuff you have to clean off a chip pan when the oil is getting tired. Or that has to gouge d out of key slots on pipes. It is of course more complicated than that - the bits hanging off the carbon chains are sometimes able to link with their neighbouring chains - if they didn 't we wouldn't have plastic washing up bowls - and the exact consistency of any particular plastic is determined by these sort of linkages, and the exact proce ss by which they are produced. In essence the number of chains there areholding hands, the exact elements doi ng the linkages, and the length of the central chain determines the solidity or otherwise of the material. Does that help? Julia -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Hi Tom, I'll let others advise on the oil, but the bottles are gained by boldly walking into a nail and beauty salon and asking for either an unused one or an empty, then applying loads of acetate to clean it up. Best wishes, Richard. Tom Childs wrote: Hi all, I know this question has probably been asked before, but what oil should I use to oil the wood and the key pads on my NSP? Also, how does one obtain the little nail polish bottle with the cap/brush that I've seen professional use when oiling their pipes? Thank you. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Errmmm, no actually I got lots of sheets from an overhead projector and wiped it until or there again I'm just getting old and forgetful and meant acetone all the time. Whooops. Thanks, Francis. Richard. Francis Wood wrote: On 12 Jan 2010, at 19:04, Richard York wrote: then applying loads of acetate to clean it up. Hello Richard, That's what I did, though I think you meant acetone. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
Palatinate Pipes? tim rolls BT wrote: I guess we may have to consider allowing Durham, CHAPELRY OF WHITWORTH. The Chapelry of Whitworth is bounded by the Wear, dividing it from Brancepath on the North; by Tudhoe, in the Parish of Brancepath, on the East; by Merrington on the South-east and South; and by St. Andrew's Auckland on the South-west and West. John Robinson, of Coundon, found drowned the 23d day of August 1637. He was a piper. From: 'Chapelry of Whitworth', The History and Antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham: volume 3: Stockton and Darlington wards (1823), pp. 291-302. URL: [1][1]http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=76361amp;strque ry=northumberland piper Date accessed: 06 January 2010. Tim - Original Message - From: [2]Anthony Robb To: [[2]3]...@millgreens.f2s.com ; [[3]4]gibbonssoi...@aol.com ; [5]tim rolls BT Cc: [[4]6]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: NSP Hello Tim Guess you're thinking about developments such as concert G chanters and high C keys. It would be accurate but silly as we both know. Clearly the pipes have growing international interest but newcomers Googling Northumberland (pipes) would get a very half-baked picture of the instrument and its history. Even if Northumberland had gained widespread acceptance during the appropriate period a good case could now be made for Northumbrian. Surely we should stick with the accepted and now geographically accurate Northumbrian. It is, after all, what most of us call them. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 6/1/10, tim rolls BT [5]tim.ro...@btconnect.com wrote: From: tim rolls BT [6]tim.ro...@btconnect.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: [7]...@millgreens.f2s.com, [8]gibbonssoi...@aol.com, Anthony Robb [9]anth...@robbpipes.com Cc: [10]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 12:09 Hi All, Surely the Tyne and Weary pipes appelation should only apply to developments since 1973. Before that back to a point where Newcastle was a county in it's own right (someone fill in the dates here )it's Northumberland all the way. Perhaps to avoid contention we should adopt a new designation, as Scottish is to Scotland, and English is to England (Angleland) what about Northumberlish? Tim - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb [11][7]anth...@robbpipes.com To: [12][8]...@millgreens.f2s.com; [13][9]gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: [14][10]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP Thin ice here,I think, John. Leaving aside the century in which the unique sound of the pipes was created and whether the addition of keys improved this sound, there are real problems, these days, with the appellation Northumberland. You rightly point out that the Kingdom of Northumbria belonged to a different era to the modern version of the instrument but then so does Northumberland as now designated by the boundary changes of the 1970s. Jim is far closer to the truth when he refers to Northumbria as the home of our pipes as this region does imply the inclusion of what is now Tyne Wear, and Durham. The locals of course usually just referred to them as pipes and used appellations Scottish or Irish to denote otherwise. When geographical information was added for the benefit of a wider audience, Northumberland was used. This now, however, has a greater lack of accuracy than Northumbrian as it means that the very place where the piping developments you mention is excluded from the named location. Perhaps some would like us now to refer to Northumberland pipes for the older version and Tyne Wear pipes for the modern version? As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 5/1/10, [[15]11]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [16][12]gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: From: [[17]13]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [18][14]gibbonssoi...@aol.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: [[19]15]...@millgreens.f2s.com Cc: [[20]16]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 23:03 The pipes and the kingdom belong to different eras - the Northumbrian pipes reached something like their modern form in a similar time and place to the steam locomotive. But they were called 'Northumberland pipes' then, as were their simpler 'unimproved' pre-Peacock version. 'Northumbrian' is now used, confusingly, to refer to any of -the Anglo-Saxon kingdom -the modern county -the modern NE region, from the Tees to the border, never ever specifying which is meant. It is apparently a gross error to do so,
[NSP] Re: NSP Etiquette
Thanks for the reminder, Matt, and my apologies. Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: Etiquette Only couple of gross offenders, but please don't include EVERY message in a thread when you reply to it, just the relevant bits Happy New Year To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
Strange, isn't it? You're right, but I can't recollect ever seeing the Scotland bagpipes mentioned, nor yet the France bagpipes. Yours in puzzlement, but Happy New Year anyway, Richard. P.S. Not being very tall, I suppose I'm a small piper, or at least aspiring eventually to become one. colin wrote: I'd go with that. Problem with Northumbrian is that it may appear that it refers to where the artist comes from (as in Colin Hill, Liverpudlian small-pipes player). ;-) Northumbrian piper may suggest a piper from Northumberland who plays bagpipes (any). Northumberland small-pipes player sounds good and accurate (maybe player is stretching it a little in my case). :-D Colin Hill - Original Message - From: inky adrian inky-adr...@ntlworld.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:38 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP I've always called them the Northumberland small-pipes as did the NPS in the old days. Inky-adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP item on BBC Radio 4
There's also the theory that said crusaders found the Saracen bagpipes
upset their horses so brought them back as a way of bagpipe-proofing
horses - urban bagpiping myth or not?
The same theory likes the introduction of the nakers to Europe
occurring for the same reason - it is said that this end of the world
didn't have drums prior to that.
Sort of Middle Eastern spoilers for the European weapon of mass
destruction :-)
Happy New Year, too!
Richard.
Barry Say wrote:
Well spotted Francis. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.
Adding to Alistair Anderson's conjectures on the development of the bagpipes,
the most convincing story I have heard is that when the Crusaders travelled to
what has been described as 'The Holy Land', they discovered people playing
'pipes' from air in 'bags'. They took this idea home and tried putting the
native instruments of their region into bags to see what happened. This would
neatly account for the widespread distribution of bagpipes in Europe and the
variety of forms.
Any thoughts?
Barry
PS Happy New Year
--
On 1 Jan 2010 at 9:50, Francis Wood wrote:
A very nice item yesterday on BBC Radio 4 from Morpeth Chantry Bagpipe Museum.
Congratulations to everyone who spoke or played; it was really good!
The programme ('Questions, Questions', 13.30) is available for the next 6 days
at:
[1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/schedules/fm/2009/12/31
Francis
To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/schedules/fm/2009/12/31
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: From notation to music
Well said again, Anthony. It's indeed the possession of both skills which is rare. We recently met a lady who had played professionally in the string section of a leading national orchestra for years, and had just retired. Name the conductor, and she'd played under them. She now left the instrument in its case, as that was part of her working life, which was now, rather gratefully, over. Playing music for pleasure - good heavens, no! She was also distinctly threatened by the notion of improvising - we were doing an informal presentation of Tudor music at the time - but in a way which said she rather wished she could, though she'd never admit it. As it was, the machinery of her hands presumably read the dots without the music ever reaching her mind. We felt sorry for her. Richard. Anthony Robb wrote: What a long, long way we've wandered from my initial point! No one can take any pride at all in not having a skill and I for one know no by ear leaner who would not wish to add the skill of sight-reading to their box of repertoire-expanding tools. For many it simply wasn't an option. They picked up the tunes from listening to what was available and pleasing to them. The lack of such a useful skill as sight-reading forced them to listen over and over again to the style of music played and gave them an insight into the music hidden beyond the dots. It is the absorption of the music into their very being which gives this music, often simple on the surface, it's complexity, vitality and beauty. Traditional music has been successfully passed on by listening for many generations. This is not beyond any musician who wants to aspire to it. It does, however, require more discipline from a dots reader because tunes can be quickly, nay instantly, accessible to them. The worry is that the more people who do this, without lots and lots of listening to what generations before have worked at and left us, the more we will be passing on a watered down version of the tradition. Stewart Hardy is a truly gifted musician by any standard. His sight reading is impeccable. Jimmy Little wouldn't know where to start with a page of dots. The one thing that they share is the amount of listening they do to take in every ounce of life and bounce from our music and then give it back with their own unique surprises and turns. It is unmistakeably part of the tradition but not slavishly copied and reproduced. Dots on their own can never pass on this feel for the music. No one is (snobbishly) damning sight-readers per se. We are saying there is a heirarchy of approaches in traditional music; the most important is listening (over and over again -even if this doesn't mean actually learning by ear) then turn, once the music has been absorbed, to the dots for reference, repertoire expansion, resurrection of old manuscript tunes etc. When done this way around, each and every one of us involved in the tradition benefits and so our blessings (not condemnation!) be upon you. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 2/12/09, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Subject: [NSP] Re: From notation to music To: j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 December, 2009, 16:02 John: I haven't damned 'classical musicians' at all. I wasn't accusing you personally of damning classical musicians. Sorry if it came over that way. Some people, including some who should no better, do damn classical musicians, however, and even take a pride in their own inability to read the dots. Inverted snobbery if you ask me. Btw, when I used the term damn I was merely referring back to Sheila Bridges' contribution, in which she wrote and it seems that many who are damning the classically trained on this nsp ... Best c To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Old Guy
Thanks Richard, That's interesting - we like Firefox so much better in lots of ways, but it sometimes doesn't play things it ought. Now I'll know what to do in future! Best wishes, Richard. Richard Evans wrote: Richard Evans wrote: Anthony Robb wrote: Here's a wee snippet of Will Atkinson playing some of Madame B.,Fiddler's Cramp and Mrs Forbes Farewell to Banff. I think we can all learn something from his clean controlled playing. What think you? [1]http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson Doesn't work on our computer. We've got quicktime etc, new machine running Vista so anybody got any suggestions? A further check shows that none of Anthony's website sound samples work. Turns out to be Firefox. Works fine in Internet Explorer. Not come across the issue before. Richard To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Old Guy
Thanks Anthony, and it is indeed fantastic playing, well worth the listen. John Doonan's advice sounds like that of Karen Tweed (the accordian player the rest try to copy). Karen reckons that to play accordian well you listen to excellent playing on flute, fiddle, almost anything other than box, and try to incorporate their characteristic sounds into the accordian, rather than just trying to play good accordian. In her case it's Irish style she starts from, but it concurs with what you say here. Best wishes, Richard. P.S. I'm getting duplicate NSP emails just now - is is something we all get in turn on this list? (Whose turn next?) Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Richard I've put a smaller file on the same link, [1]http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson ( a photo of yours truly with Will Joe). I know Will didn't play the pipes but I'm trying to follow the advice of John Doonan (pal of Billy Pigg, Archie Bertram et al.) 36 years ago he heard me play and told me I was a good player but the only way I'd improve was to listen to the all players of Northumbrian music and learn from them. Six months later I met him at one of Archie Bertram's nights near Hepple and could see just what he meant. Trouble is I'm still not there yet - as Jimmy Little says it takes a lang time, a lang, lang time! Cheers Anthony --- On Sun, 25/10/09, Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk wrote: From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Old Guy To: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com, NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, 25 October, 2009, 10:26 PM I'd love to hear it, but am I the only one whose computer sits there for ages with the quick-time logo up, and the message loading, but no ultimate achievement? Is there an alternative route to reaching it? I can hear the other tunes on your front page, Anthony, they're fine. Thanks, Richard. Anthony Robb wrote: Here's a wee snippet of Will Atkinson playing some of Madame B.,Fiddler's Cramp and Mrs Forbes Farewell to Banff. I think we can all learn something from his clean controlled playing. What think you? [1][2]http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson -- References 1. [3]http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson 2. http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson 3. http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Old Guy
I'd love to hear it, but am I the only one whose computer sits there for ages with the quick-time logo up, and the message loading, but no ultimate achievement? Is there an alternative route to reaching it? I can hear the other tunes on your front page, Anthony, they're fine. Thanks, Richard. Anthony Robb wrote: Here's a wee snippet of Will Atkinson playing some of Madame B.,Fiddler's Cramp and Mrs Forbes Farewell to Banff. I think we can all learn something from his clean controlled playing. What think you? [1]http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson -- References 1. http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Folio 3
I opened my computer to write and congratulate Julia all on Folio 3, see I'm not the first, so I'll join my voice to theirs. I'll look forward to playing through the tunes too. Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: players in SW
Valerio's right - though you could always buy the Peacock book on actual paper. It's remarkably cheap for such a superb set of music for 8 notes. In fact in my fairly short nsp playing life so far, I've been surprised that although everyone carries the Society Tune Books and the folios, relatively few of the ones I've come across seem to carry Peacock round with them. Perhaps it should be a compulsory feature of membership ;-) Julia Say is the contact you want here. Happy piping from the middle of the country! Richard. amble skuse wrote: Hi all I'm a newbie to NSP, I'm a flute player who has recently felt really drawn to the pipes. I have been really lucky to be able to hire a set of NSP's to practice with. I've had a couple of pointers on getting the elbows to work but it would be great to find other players in the SW of England. Is there anybody there? Also does anyone have a link to any music designed for keyless sets? Thanks in advance. Amble :-) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Composing location
I'm impressed that you find you can write decent tunes in your sleep, Valerio - I recently woke up from a dream with a world-beatingly fantastic tune in it, and to my glee found I could still remember part of it. Then as the layers of sleep peeled away I was mortified to realise I'd just re-hashed I did it my way... I don't even particularly like the song! Best wishes, Richard. Valerio M. Pelliccioni wrote: Richard, in my experience, every place is a good place for a new melody to come up. BTW the worst place (and the most frequent) is the bed during the REM phase... I have to immediately stand up and write down the melody otherwise, the day afte r, I'll forget it. Valerio - Original Message - From: [1]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: [2]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Data: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:16:35 +0100 Subject: [NSP] Composing location On holiday I set myself the task of writing a tune a day whether it was rubbish or not, just to make me start writing again. We were camping in stunning Pembroke coastal scenery... but the most inspiring place to think of tunes, I found, was the shower; the only problem being the risk of 50p running out the water stopping abruptly, so the ablutions had to happen first and fast! Where does anyone else find is a good place to invent tunes? Yours in hopefully non-contentious cheer, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Dawn Goff contact request
Apologies to the rest of you for using the general lists thus. Hi Dawn, You wrote to one of these two lists about Rothbury Festival... I think it's next weekend, yes? recently but I deleted the message, and hence your address with it. I have a small favour to ask, if you are going up there, and would be most grateful if you'd contact me, please. Best wishes, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Happy Hours
I rather assumed that the extra extra embellishment was a sort of in joke, affectionately smiling at Billy Pigg's enthusiasm for such embellishments and just overdoing it enough for the grin. Andy M only does that once - most tasteful! Mr. May, sir, - if you read this list - was that the intention? Richard. Dally, John wrote: .Happy Hours, which Andy writes he picked up from the playing of Billy Pigg. Andy slips a very Piggish embellishment in the second and third times through the tune, which some might consider improper NSP technique. It works for me. . -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
When teaching an evening class on playing traditional music a while back, I was determined to get the dots only players to play by ear, visa versa too, so they all had the benefit of both techniques. Most seemed to find it useful. So after some weeks of working up to it, and following John Kirkpatrick's writing on improvising within a tune when that half of the brain takes over, I set us to play the same tune for 25 minutes and see what happened to it. Most people hugely enjoyed it. One unrepentant dots-only player was really quite angry with me. Apparently I'd just made him read the same 32 bars around 20 times, and he was still having to read every single dot at the end of it, and he was bored out of his skull. And he still couldn't, or wouldn't, play it without the dots, in case he got a note wrong. After reading your post, Chris, I find I have a bit more sympathy for him than I had, inwardly, at the time! Richard. ch...@harris405.plus.com wrote: But it's worse than that. I clearly remember one session in Hexham when someone suggested a tune that I knew without music, and regularly played. Great! I thought, I don't need to go scrabbling to find this in the tune book and come in after everyone else has already started. After the first couple of bars, I lost my way, and didn't find it again till the tune was finished. So now, even if it's a tune I know without music, if I'm in company, I find the dots just for reference if I need it. But I think the ability to play by ear is somehow buried somewhere in the other side of the brain if I could just learn how to access it. Sometimes I can be playing a tune (on my own, from the music) and my eyes lose track of the place in the music. But sometimes I can continue, if it's a tune I know well, for several bars, before my eyes get the right place again. If someone were to write a book on 'playing music on the right side of the brain' I'd be a customer. Chris Harris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: ear-learners vs note-learners
I always found that getting the group to put the instruments down, and sing the tune, as best the voice allows, until it's internalised; and only then encouraging people to play it with the same feel as they sang it, works better than some ways of ear teaching, and tends to get more spirit into it. Sometimes you need to sing it at a different pitch, just to be able to reach it, which is not ideal, but still helps. Richard Y Richard Hensold wrote: So, many teachers (such as Margaret) try to counter this by teaching tunes by ear in workshops. It's a good idea, but does it work? In other words, does it actually teach people to hear the subtleties they've learned to miss over the years? This is an honest question, and I certainly invite comment, but I'll start by doubting that it does work. I think once you've learned to hear music a certain way, the simple intuitive approach will no longer work. Your ears can certainly be retrained, but you've developed hearing habits of hearing that must be actively broken. Can note-learners learn to play like ear-players? I think so, but I'm still working on what methods work best. I tend to analyze everything and do lots of directed listening, and while this is very good at helping to hear new things, it's sort of counter-intuitive to think that analyzing something will help you eventually arrive at a more intuitively-musical way of playing. Comments, anyone? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
I find this very reassuring, Matt! I'm still bashing away at Peacock, and only recently took note of the metronome settings in the recent edition, some of which are, to me, stratospherically fast. I've been wondering if these were based on general practice, either current or historical, or other evidence, or personal editorial preference. I know that in other traditional dance music I play, slow is often increasingly better, but was ascribing my falling well short of these target speeds here to my lack of nsp experience skill. - but I also noted that on some recent CD's I've heard, some of the pieces feel as if they're played slower than the figures given, and they feel right to my untutored southern ear. I'll have to go check now with CD metronome! Best wishes, Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: On 6/9/09, Di Jevons [1]d...@picklewood.info wrote: I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' Well said, Di. Going further, 'life and bounce' are (imho) incompatible with 'breakneck speed'. Try, for example, to play a jig with any kind of lilt AND to play it fast, and you'll soon stop wanting to play it fast. This is so obvious to me now, but I admit it took me years to arrive at the obvious. Breakneck speed with accuracy IS impressive, as Paul points out with some irony; it is unattainable for many (self included), and more importantly - do you want to be impressed by music, or caressed by music? To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:d...@picklewood.info 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Was: this list is safer now//speed
Thanks Richard - I agree with much of this, though I feel it needs to be the right speed, rather than just speed. I have played other instruments for various sorts of dance, both traditional historical, for a long time now, where indeed the dancers need to be able to rely on the right energy. Sometimes this seems to be better provided by strong rhythm and time to allow them to move in an enjoyable way rather than feeling they're doing a sprint. I realise it all depends on the nature of the dance, and don't get the chance to play for Northumbrian dancers, or dances, which I realise may need quicker stepping, so I can't yet speak for this. Hence my question about the speeds given in Peacock - not criticism, just a question, I hasten to add. In the case of, for example, Morris, which I realise is a very different kettle of fish, more energy is often provided by playing slower, when they can make bigger movements, rather than keeping them to short quick steps which frustrates them. By the way, for those into nerdy counting, All the Night I Lay with Jockey is given a figure of 120 bpm in the new Peacock. Pauline Cato's New Tyne Bridge CD makes it sound relaxed and cheerful and quite fast enough at 116, Andy May's Happy Hours CD comes in at 108. I'm not suggesting it's a race. Both are great musically, both sound lively enough to my ear. Both, incidentally, are also obviously within their comfort zone, as discussed in an earlier string, and make it sound as if they're actually playing slower! All ye best, Richard Y Richard Shuttleworth wrote: Hello Richard, A distinction should be made between playing for dances and playing for pleasure. Dancers need the music to be quite fast otherwise they feel clumsy and uncoordinated; to move along and feel light on their feet they need speed - which the player has to provide. When the piper is simply playing for his/her own pleasure then the music can take over and set its own tempo. Cheers, Richard S. Richard York wrote: I find this very reassuring, Matt! I'm still bashing away at Peacock, and only recently took note of the metronome settings in the recent edition, some of which are, to me, stratospherically fast. I've been wondering if these were based on general practice, either current or historical, or other evidence, or personal editorial preference. I know that in other traditional dance music I play, slow is often increasingly better, but was ascribing my falling well short of these target speeds here to my lack of nsp experience skill. - but I also noted that on some recent CD's I've heard, some of the pieces feel as if they're played slower than the figures given, and they feel right to my untutored southern ear. I'll have to go check now with CD metronome! Best wishes, Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: On 6/9/09, Di Jevons [1]d...@picklewood.info wrote: I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' Well said, Di. Going further, 'life and bounce' are (imho) incompatible with 'breakneck speed'. Try, for example, to play a jig with any kind of lilt AND to play it fast, and you'll soon stop wanting to play it fast. This is so obvious to me now, but I admit it took me years to arrive at the obvious. Breakneck speed with accuracy IS impressive, as Paul points out with some irony; it is unattainable for many (self included), and more importantly - do you want to be impressed by music, or caressed by music? To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:d...@picklewood.info 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
