Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??
I understand Rod's point, and I believe that if you choose to restrict your activities to a purely altruistic ideal, then what Rod talks about and what Eric Rayomond talks about is just fine. But, I argue that at any point you invest time into open source (as a user,developer, etc.) it is always part of a business model. It's just a matter of degrees. For the benefit of open source, it can no longer, especially in the case of health care software, remain garage at-home projects. Capital needs to be fed to those individuals doing the work, AND it's important to make sure those individuals are always associated with the project in the public's eye. Otherwise progress will become stagnate. The question is, which business model accelerates open source development faster? Richard Rod Roark wrote: On Saturday 25 March 2006 03:08 am, Thomas Beale wrote: Rod Roark wrote: The point is, open source (as in Free Software) is NOT a business model. It's a method and end result of collaboration among users. I make good money at it only because some of those users are willing to pay me to do the techie work for them. if someone is paying you something, then there is a business model. It's better to be aware of what it is than pretend that it isn't there My business is just work for hire, and I can assure you that I'm aware of it. :-) This has nothing to do with my point. For a better understanding of the nature of Free Software, see Eric Raymond's classic work at: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/ and as an interesting exercise, count how many times the word business appears. -- Rod www.sunsetsystems.com Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
Nice to see you make progress on this. I remember a few years ago when this was a hot topic on the openhealth list If I were involved in the incorporation (which I can do, by the way in a day) I would object to doing it in Malaysia. I would do it in the U.S. first. The protections offered a U.S. corporation might be much greater than in Malaysia. Richard Schilling Molly Cheah wrote: Dear all, I am happy to annouce that the transfer of the domain name oshca.org from Brian had been completed. Brian is in the process of creating and signing a document disclaiming rights to the OSHCA trademark. Thank you Brian for these initiatives. I understand that Brian will also make a decision with regards to the fate of the openhealth lists on Minoru and Yahoo by this weekend. I'll leave that to Brian to make that annoucement. As for the status of OSHCA, the protem committee members (volunteers expressed on the list as well as those agreed to serve when requested) are as follows: Joseph dal Molin (Canada/US) Adrian Midgley (UK/Europe) Thomas Beale (Australia/Pacific islands) Nandalal Gunaratne (Sri Lanka/Asia) Molly Cheah (Malaysia/Asia) I hope to keep the protem committee small for quick decision making but hope to add 2 more names, preferably from South America and Africa/Middle East by the time we submit the incorporation documents for registration. Please volunteer. These numbers and representation structure can change after incorporation if members wish so. I don't know how much discussion should go into the incorporation process or how much time should be alotted. My proposed timeline for completion of incorporation is 3 months from 15th April 2006 - tentative date for submission of papers. We should have OSHCA ressurrected by 15th July 2006, barring unforseen circumstances. Here are my assumptions in order to realise this initiative: 1. Provisions in the constitution/MA of OSHCA is a living document and can be changed by members' majority wishes. For purpose of incorporation, we will take into consideration past discussions (2002-2004) and make the provisions as general and flexible as possible to meet incorporation requirements. 2. There is no objection to incorporate ina developing country like Malaysia. There will be provisions for setting up geographical sections/branches etc with as much de-centralization as possible. 3.The Vision, Mission Statements, Principles and Activities as discussed earlier this year will be included in the incorporation papers. Any suggestion of changes posted on the Yahoo list by 15th April will be taken into consideration by the protem committee for incorporation. Procedures will be provided for amendments to be made after incorporation. 4. Elections for new committee members can take place immediately after incorporation. Provision will be made for the protem committee to stay on for a defined number of months to attend to teething issues that may arise. 5. The yahoo list will continue to discuss organising the 1st post-incorporation OSHCA meeting scheduled for later part of 2006 to kick-start/launch OSHCA. This may not be in the form of a full conference. I would like to see presentations of current status of open source healthcare solutions/applicaions. It should also provide the opportunity to include indepth discussions on planning for the future of OSHCA so that its resurrection becomes meaningful - reflecting more than just a community of open source enthusiasts in health care. If there are no other bidders, I plan to get funding to do this in Malaysia. Naturally it may be on a modest scale. Please feel free to propose ideas.The protem committee will work on an action plan and invite volunteers to help. Molly Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
Richard Schilling wrote: If I were involved in the incorporation (which I can do, by the way in a day) I would object to doing it in Malaysia. I would do it in the U.S. first. The protections offered a U.S. corporation might be much greater than in Malaysia. Glad that you have compared US and Malaysian corporate law. Personally I think it is great that OSHCA will finally be incorporated, and given the current Zeitgeist in many rich countries, that it will be incorporated under a flag bearing the crescent and star. Tim C Molly Cheah wrote: Dear all, I am happy to annouce that the transfer of the domain name oshca.org from Brian had been completed. Brian is in the process of creating and signing a document disclaiming rights to the OSHCA trademark. Thank you Brian for these initiatives. I understand that Brian will also make a decision with regards to the fate of the openhealth lists on Minoru and Yahoo by this weekend. I'll leave that to Brian to make that annoucement. As for the status of OSHCA, the protem committee members (volunteers expressed on the list as well as those agreed to serve when requested) are as follows: Joseph dal Molin (Canada/US) Adrian Midgley (UK/Europe) Thomas Beale (Australia/Pacific islands) Nandalal Gunaratne (Sri Lanka/Asia) Molly Cheah (Malaysia/Asia) I hope to keep the protem committee small for quick decision making but hope to add 2 more names, preferably from South America and Africa/Middle East by the time we submit the incorporation documents for registration. Please volunteer. These numbers and representation structure can change after incorporation if members wish so. I don't know how much discussion should go into the incorporation process or how much time should be alotted. My proposed timeline for completion of incorporation is 3 months from 15th April 2006 - tentative date for submission of papers. We should have OSHCA ressurrected by 15th July 2006, barring unforseen circumstances. Here are my assumptions in order to realise this initiative: 1. Provisions in the constitution/MA of OSHCA is a living document and can be changed by members' majority wishes. For purpose of incorporation, we will take into consideration past discussions (2002-2004) and make the provisions as general and flexible as possible to meet incorporation requirements. 2. There is no objection to incorporate ina developing country like Malaysia. There will be provisions for setting up geographical sections/branches etc with as much de-centralization as possible. 3.The Vision, Mission Statements, Principles and Activities as discussed earlier this year will be included in the incorporation papers. Any suggestion of changes posted on the Yahoo list by 15th April will be taken into consideration by the protem committee for incorporation. Procedures will be provided for amendments to be made after incorporation. 4. Elections for new committee members can take place immediately after incorporation. Provision will be made for the protem committee to stay on for a defined number of months to attend to teething issues that may arise. 5. The yahoo list will continue to discuss organising the 1st post-incorporation OSHCA meeting scheduled for later part of 2006 to kick-start/launch OSHCA. This may not be in the form of a full conference. I would like to see presentations of current status of open source healthcare solutions/applicaions. It should also provide the opportunity to include indepth discussions on planning for the future of OSHCA so that its resurrection becomes meaningful - reflecting more than just a community of open source enthusiasts in health care. If there are no other bidders, I plan to get funding to do this in Malaysia. Naturally it may be on a modest scale. Please feel free to propose ideas.The protem committee will work on an action plan and invite volunteers to help. Molly Yahoo! Groups Links YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group openhealth http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
Hmmm It hadn't crossed my mind at all that discussions on the suitability of the country for incorporation will be approached from those perspectives mentioned. I thought we were approaching this issue (developing vs developed countries) from the funding perspectives (not mentioning developing countries' perception and acceptance of developed countries' agenda). Besides there are more needs by developing countries for open source health care systems as a viable and sustainable alternative which we hope OSHCA can play a significant role as a non-profit, apolitical entity for maximum impact in health outcomes. See global knowledge partnership http://www.globalknowledge.org/ as an example of a similar organisation incorporated in Malaysia to harness the potential of ICT for a sustainable and equitable development globally. Molly Tim.Churches wrote: Richard Schilling wrote: If I were involved in the incorporation (which I can do, by the way in a day) I would object to doing it in Malaysia. I would do it in the U.S. first. The protections offered a U.S. corporation might be much greater than in Malaysia. Glad that you have compared US and Malaysian corporate law. Personally I think it is great that OSHCA will finally be incorporated, and given the current Zeitgeist in many rich countries, that it will be incorporated under a flag bearing the crescent and star. Tim C Molly Cheah wrote: Dear all, I am happy to annouce that the transfer of the domain name oshca.org from Brian had been completed. Brian is in the process of creating and signing a document disclaiming rights to the OSHCA trademark. Thank you Brian for these initiatives. I understand that Brian will also make a decision with regards to the fate of the openhealth lists on Minoru and Yahoo by this weekend. I'll leave that to Brian to make that annoucement. As for the status of OSHCA, the protem committee members (volunteers expressed on the list as well as those agreed to serve when requested) are as follows: Joseph dal Molin (Canada/US) Adrian Midgley (UK/Europe) Thomas Beale (Australia/Pacific islands) Nandalal Gunaratne (Sri Lanka/Asia) Molly Cheah (Malaysia/Asia) I hope to keep the protem committee small for quick decision making but hope to add 2 more names, preferably from South America and Africa/Middle East by the time we submit the incorporation documents for registration. Please volunteer. These numbers and representation structure can change after incorporation if members wish so. I don't know how much discussion should go into the incorporation process or how much time should be alotted. My proposed timeline for completion of incorporation is 3 months from 15th April 2006 - tentative date for submission of papers. We should have OSHCA ressurrected by 15th July 2006, barring unforseen circumstances. Here are my assumptions in order to realise this initiative: 1. Provisions in the constitution/MA of OSHCA is a living document and can be changed by members' majority wishes. For purpose of incorporation, we will take into consideration past discussions (2002-2004) and make the provisions as general and flexible as possible to meet incorporation requirements. 2. There is no objection to incorporate ina developing country like Malaysia. There will be provisions for setting up geographical sections/branches etc with as much de-centralization as possible. 3.The Vision, Mission Statements, Principles and Activities as discussed earlier this year will be included in the incorporation papers. Any suggestion of changes posted on the Yahoo list by 15th April will be taken into consideration by the protem committee for incorporation. Procedures will be provided for amendments to be made after incorporation. 4. Elections for new committee members can take place immediately after incorporation. Provision will be made for the protem committee to stay on for a defined number of months to attend to teething issues that may arise. 5. The yahoo list will continue to discuss organising the 1st post-incorporation OSHCA meeting scheduled for later part of 2006 to kick-start/launch OSHCA. This may not be in the form of a full conference. I would like to see presentations of current status of open source healthcare solutions/applicaions. It should also provide the opportunity to include indepth discussions on planning for the future of OSHCA so that its resurrection becomes meaningful - reflecting more than just a community of open source enthusiasts in health care. If there are no other bidders, I plan to get funding to do this in Malaysia. Naturally it may be on a modest scale. Please feel free to propose ideas.The protem committee will work on an action plan and invite volunteers to help. Molly Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??
It worries me when a single organization is in a position to set the criterion for certification and set the price. If being certified is required as entry to some markets, then the organization is in a position similar to a government regulator. To break up this monopoly, I would suggest that others must be allowed to compete for your certification dollars -- all following the same standard criterion. They can compete based on price, service and whatever else appeals to the customer. -mlp- - Original Message - From: Fred Trotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software?? It sounds like there is little consensus for having any special status for open source software. Certainly not enough to warrant a group letter. Are there any more thoughts on how much a certification should cost? -FT Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??
Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I too agree. Certification is a matter of standards and quality. ther should be no compromise. The FOSS once equally certified maybe able to make stroner claims. However because of the collaborative/community type of development, there could be a waver of the fee or some consideration given if the software or a version of it is to be given free, and the FOSS based company hopes to make money by the enterprise edition or by support only. Thus the fee can be 1. less 2. full but paid in installments? NandA Fred, I oppose the creation of a separate open source certification process. I think it compromises the opportunity for open source solutions to displace commercial solutions, and it distracts open source projects from leveraging the collaborative process to create seriously superior solutions. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 27, 2006, at 10:16 AM, Fred Trotter wrote: This is an interesting discussion. However we do have some decisions to make. 1. Does the different nature free and open source medical software warrant different consideration than proprietary models for CCHIT certification pricing. (If a large number of people feel this way then we should draft our own letter.) Yes/No 2. In NOT should the pricing generally be lowered for everyone so that small and open source projects will have the opportunity to get certified. (If you feel this way then you should just sign the emrupdate.com letter) Yes/No Feel free to continue the substance of the discussion by saying why or why not for your answers. In any case if you feel that a letter should be written or signed... now is the time to do so the review window is closing. -- Fred Trotter SynSeer, Consultant http://www.fredtrotter.com http://www.synseer.com phone: (480)290-8109 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee - - - - - - - - - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group openhealth on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1cent;/min. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??
Business Readiness Rating - Home Could HIS be included here as well? NandA Thomas Beale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Tim.Churches wrote: Will Ross wrote: Fred, I oppose the creation of a separate open source certification process. I think it compromises the opportunity for open source solutions to displace commercial solutions, and it distracts open source projects from leveraging the collaborative process to create seriously superior solutions. This is a US matter, but as I set out, my position would be to argue for a reduced-cost certification process of any software which makes all the necessary documentation, source code, unit tests, functional test scripts etc needed to satisfy the certification criteria publicly available for scrutiny by anyone. But the actual criteria to be met should be the same. I agree that this should be the basis. Certification should be a case of paying someone to do the same thing you have already done, just without you being there. It should be a $2k or less operation. - thomas beale SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group openhealth on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
Legal protection in the context of an organization like OSHCA is IMHO not a major concern. What is more important is how the countries laws influence governance. David Forslund wrote: I don't understand why this is good or even relevant. What should matter is the legal protection provided by the incorporation in the various countries participating, which I think was Richard's point. Dave Forslund Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
There may be legal protection, etc in Malaysia. We are more familiar with the situation in the US. It is more of a question of comparing what is required and what you can do with a corporation in Malaysia than in the US. The decision shouldn't be made on political grounds but on technical grounds, in my opinion. Dave Molly Cheah wrote: I was born in Malaysia and lived through the period where we obtained independance from the British and from whom our legal framework was adopted. Just wondering what are the concerns of Richard and David on the legal protection for OSHCA. Can you elaborate rather than make a comment that imply there isn't legal protection. Incidently we don't have the equivalence of Guantanano Bay in Malaysia. Molly Joseph Dal Molin wrote: Legal protection in the context of an organization like OSHCA is IMHO not a major concern. What is more important is how the countries laws influence governance. David Forslund wrote: I don't understand why this is good or even relevant. What should matter is the legal protection provided by the incorporation in the various countries participating, which I think was Richard's point. Dave Forslund Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
David Forslund wrote: There may be legal protection, etc in Malaysia. Not may be, there definitely is. As Molly said, Malaysian law was originally based on British law - it is now distinct from it, but rest assured that there is rule of civil law in Malaysia. There is also corruption and political influence over the courts, but I would not like to have to say whether there is more or less such corruption in Malaysia than in the US or other countries. However, for a tiny, nascent organisation like OSHCA, none of this is relevant. Suffice to say that Malaysian corporate law should be more than adequate for OSHCA's purposes. That's correct, isn't it Molly? We are more familiar with the situation in the US. Well, yes. I am more familiar with Australian law. But that doesn't mean that I regard the legal regimes in every other country with suspicion. It is more of a question of comparing what is required and what you can do with a corporation in Malaysia than in the US. The decision shouldn't be made on political grounds but on technical grounds, in my opinion. Given what OSHCA hopes to achieve - things like engaging with UN-sponsored initiatives such as WSIS and perhaps with national and international development agencies - I think that incorporation in Malaysia (or some other non-aligned developing or transitional country) is a *much* more sound choice, from a political perspective, than incorporation in the US (or other G8 or other rich nations, but particularly the US, particularly at the moment). Tim C Molly Cheah wrote: I was born in Malaysia and lived through the period where we obtained independance from the British and from whom our legal framework was adopted. Just wondering what are the concerns of Richard and David on the legal protection for OSHCA. Can you elaborate rather than make a comment that imply there isn't legal protection. Incidently we don't have the equivalence of Guantanano Bay in Malaysia. Molly Joseph Dal Molin wrote: Legal protection in the context of an organization like OSHCA is IMHO not a major concern. What is more important is how the countries laws influence governance. David Forslund wrote: I don't understand why this is good or even relevant. What should matter is the legal protection provided by the incorporation in the various countries participating, which I think was Richard's point. Dave Forslund Yahoo! Groups Links YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group openhealth http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
Molly, I think you should incorporate in Malaysia eventually. As a Malaysian you'll have a very easy time doing it and know what it means. The members of the protem committee have been discussing OSCHA incorporation since 2002 or perhaps earlier if memory serves. Why it didn't happen in France or Canada already is a mystery to me. globalknowledge.org provides a wonderful model. Is Microsoft the only north-American company a member of globalknowledge.org? Richard Molly Cheah wrote: David, There is and not may be because there are legal frameworks (acts of parliament) that governs corporations, civil societies, unions etc. If OSHCA is to be my organisation, I would have it up in 3 days (not one as suggested by Richard). My timeline of 3 months is not due to technical grounds for setting it up but rather to allow members and the protem committee to discuss and accept what should go into the incorporation papers. The procedures are laid out and transparent. Even the choice of incorporation in a developing country went through discussions on this list and there were no objections. I picked Malaysia because I'm from here and I had undertaken to do the job. If anyone else would like to volunteer to do the job please by all means. The other reason why I picked Malaysia is provided by the evidence of the incorporation and success of the global knowledge partnership http://www.globalknowledge.org. There are several other similar organisations too. And look at the list of GKP members, their activities etc. Please enumerate what we want to do in OSHCA that is not done by global knowledge partnership. We had already gone through discussions on OSHCA's vision, mission statements, principles and activities. Though this is out of context here, Malaysia has a secular constitution and therefore it is not an islamic country, though majority of the population are muslims. Unfortunately the media especially in the US says we are an islamic state and most people rely on the media for information and believes them. But this (muslim or secular) should not be of concern to anyone. Molly David Forslund wrote: There may be legal protection, etc in Malaysia. We are more familiar with the situation in the US. It is more of a question of comparing what is required and what you can do with a corporation in Malaysia than in the US. The decision shouldn't be made on political grounds but on technical grounds, in my opinion. Dave Molly Cheah wrote: I was born in Malaysia and lived through the period where we obtained independance from the British and from whom our legal framework was adopted. Just wondering what are the concerns of Richard and David on the legal protection for OSHCA. Can you elaborate rather than make a comment that imply there isn't legal protection. Incidently we don't have the equivalence of Guantanano Bay in Malaysia. Molly Joseph Dal Molin wrote: Legal protection in the context of an organization like OSHCA is IMHO not a major concern. What is more important is how the countries laws influence governance. David Forslund wrote: I don't understand why this is good or even relevant. What should matter is the legal protection provided by the incorporation in the various countries participating, which I think was Richard's point. Dave Forslund Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Openhealth mailing list
Thanks for the welcome, Bhaskar, and also the warm welcome (in every sense of the word) I've received from many others. Also, thank you for creating this list. The list software at minoru-development.com was and is broken- you took the right step to keep this incredible community conversation going. I have no intention of fixing the old list. Having two lists is confusing and creates the appearance of division where none exists. Accordingly, I'll be closing down the openhealth mailing list on the minoru site in about a week. For those who have not already joined the Yahoo list, please do so now. There is no need to unsubscribe from the minoru list, as it will be deleted. You will not be transfered to Yahoo unless you indicate that you want this by joining at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ . http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ As for the trademark issue, my apologies to the group for forgetting Why I'm here. Openhealth is the name of a conversation and a community. I'll work to be more consistent about this. -Brian Bhaskar, KS wrote: First, I would like to welcome Brian back to the community. Having met him only once, and never having collaborated with him, as a newcomer to the open source healthcare community, I don't know him as well as I perhaps should. But it is always good to have an early active member in a field return to active participation. So, welcome back! I am also very encouraged by the discussion about resurrecting OSHCA. I think it was an important organization. [I do wonder, however, given the subtle changes in language over the last few years, whether FOSSHCA or FLOSSHCA might not be better names to use today...] I was the one that originally created the openhealth mailing list on Yahoogroups, and my light a candle vs. curse the darkness motivation for doing it is discussed in my post (copied below) announcing the list. In my role as moderator, I see myself as serving the wishes of the free and open source software for healthcare community. One suggestion I would make, however, is simply to leave the list at Yahoogroups. Yes, we can create our own list on our own server, but then we would be responsible for things like the list below for a server that will sit on the Internet: 1. Backups. 2. Indexing and searching. 3. Anti-virus and spam filtering. 4. Security, including keeping up to date with patches. 5. Network access, bandwidth, data center operations. I recently had an opportunity to observe the need to respond to a server that was found to have the t0rn root kit installed on it, and it was very disruptive on the lives of those who managed it. Yahoogroups does all of this for us, and the price is some advertising appended to each message (and if you opt for text messages rather than HTML messages, the advertising is at the bottom and quite innocuous). All the group moderators have to do is to approve requests to join the group. We already have several moderators from the community who are members of the group, and there is redundancy should I, or any of the other moderators, have something untoward happen to us and be unable to serve. I am also happy to accept others who would like to volunteer to serve the community as moderator. My two bits' worth: let us focus on building the new OSHCA / FOSSHCA / FLOSSHCA community, web page, portal, etc., and leave the mailing list where it is. Regards -- Bhaskar -- Background / motivation: A couple of months ago, as a result of an e-mail server consolidation following a corporate acquisition, my e-mail address changed from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED] This of course meant that I could not post to the openhealth list, since posting is restricted to members. I have tried a couple of times to subscribe with my new e-mail address, but my attempts went into the bit bucket. This has meant that although I can read posts - e-mail sent to the old address is forwarded to the new one - I cannot post and participate in discussions. Under the theory that it is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, I have created a mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo Groups (http://groups.yahoo.com) http://groups.yahoo.com%29 is a robust place for mailing lists and electronic communities, including a file repository, searchable web-accessible message archive, online chat, etc. If you would like to join, please send me e-mail at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED], and I will send you an invitation from Yahoo Groups. If you click on a link in that e-mail invitation, or reply to the e-mail, you will be subscribed to the group. Alternatively, go to http://groups.yahoo.com and search for openhealth. Ask to join the group, and I will get a message asking to approve your application to join. In an attempt to keep e-mail harvesters off the list, I have created the group
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
I think at a certain point this becomes an issue of doers vs. talkers. Talking is fine, but from previous discussions I understood that while many people are interested there are few that can commit serious money or time to this process. I know that I certainly cannot afford any time to help right now. If Dr. Cheah is willing to do the encorporation work, then I think Dr. Cheah should choose were to encorporate. If, later, the goals of the organization do not square with the location of encorporation then they can simply encorporate somewhere else. The issue is who owns the domain name. So re-encorporating boils down to transferring the domain owner, pretty simple. I am not trying to say that the issues being discussed are not important, I am only saying that moving forward is more important. Let the doers decide. -FT information all wrong with regards to Malaysia's Constitutional Monarchy. -- Fred Trotter SynSeer, Consultant http://www.fredtrotter.com http://www.synseer.com phone: (480)290-8109 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
My apologies, I mean qualify the governance of OSHCA's assets Molly Dr Molly Cheah wrote: I've copy and paste the email from Networksolutions on the completion of the transfer of oshca.org from Minoru Corporation to OSHCA which is self explanatory on your question who owns the domain name. oshca.net is the other domain name that is owned by OSHCA. Nationally the incorporation of OSHCA will quality the governance of these assets. I've also noted that Brian has posted to the list on the use of openhealth on the yahoo list and the closure of the Minoru list. Molly Fred Trotter wrote: I think at a certain point this becomes an issue of doers vs. talkers. Talking is fine, but from previous discussions I understood that while many people are interested there are few that can commit serious money or time to this process. I know that I certainly cannot afford any time to help right now. If Dr. Cheah is willing to do the encorporation work, then I think Dr. Cheah should choose were to encorporate. If, later, the goals of the organization do not square with the location of encorporation then they can simply encorporate somewhere else. The issue is who owns the domain name. Dear Network Solutions Customer, Your transfer request has been successfully completed. Please see below for the details of the transfer: From Account Number: 24342680 From Account Holder: Minoru Development Corporation To Account Number: 30023835 To Account Holder: The Open Source Health Care Alliance Domain Name(s): OSHCA.ORG If you have any questions or need assistance, please contact Customer Service at [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. Thank you for choosing Network Solutions. We are committed to delivering high quality services to meet your online needs. Sincerely, Network Solutions Customer Support Your Network Solutions services are subject to the terms and conditions set forth in our Service Agreement which you accepted at the time of purchase. You can view the complete Service Agreement again at: http://goto.networksolutions.com/service-agreement http://cclinks.networksolutions.com/?emailid=1965796090fwdurl=http://goto.networksolutions.com/service-agreement. This e-mail was sent from a notification only address and cannot receive incoming messages. © Copyright 2006 Network Solutions, LLC. All rights reserved. Network Solutions, 13861 Sunrise Valley Drive, Department CCD, Herndon, VA 20171 So re-encorporating boils down to transferring the domain owner, pretty simple. I am not trying to say that the issues being discussed are not important, I am only saying that moving forward is more important. Let the doers decide. -FT information all wrong with regards to Malaysia's Constitutional Monarchy. -- Fred Trotter SynSeer, Consultant http://www.fredtrotter.com http://www.synseer.com phone: (480)290-8109 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Openhealth mailing list
Thank you, Brian. I look forward to your ongoing active contribution to and participation in this list and the Free / Open Source Softwar healthcare community. Regards -- Bhaskar On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 19:45 -0600, Brian Bray wrote: Thanks for the welcome, Bhaskar, and also the warm welcome (in every sense of the word) I've received from many others. Also, thank you for creating this list. The list software at minoru-development.com was and is broken- you took the right step to keep this incredible community conversation going. I have no intention of fixing the old list. Having two lists is confusing and creates the appearance of division where none exists. Accordingly, I'll be closing down the openhealth mailing list on the minoru site in about a week. For those who have not already joined the Yahoo list, please do so now. There is no need to unsubscribe from the minoru list, as it will be deleted. You will not be transfered to Yahoo unless you indicate that you want this by joining at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ . http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ As for the trademark issue, my apologies to the group for forgetting Why I'm here. Openhealth is the name of a conversation and a community. I'll work to be more consistent about this. -Brian Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
Thank you Dr. Molly. What you wrote is very helpful and answers my concerns about intellectual property protections afforded to Malaysian incorporation. But, I'm still not convinced I know enough to say it's a great idea to start there. You're right - I need to spend some time there, and will eventually. And BTW, I'm not just talking, I'm trying to figure out how much it's going to take me to actually execute the incorporation here in the U.S. when you all are ready. see below ... Dr Molly Cheah wrote: (snip) But why start of with a US incorporation? Past discussions clearly indicate that the membership do not want a US dominated OSHCA. I don't view the situation as US dominated or not. We'll have to get a US incorporation at some point to have a US presence. Your big economic impact and market is in the U.S. As a Malaysian company you have to play in the U.S. as a foreign interest. As a domestic U.S. corporation it's much easier. I can help you more if you start here. I can't help you as much if you start elsewhere. I know there's a lot of bad sentiment toward American companies right now in some circles, but you know what? It doesn't matter. I believe those fears will dissipate as long as we stay focused on OSCHA's mission. We're getting software distributed here, not playing politics. I don't agree that US incorporation offers more legal protection than Malaysia which are also signatories to International Conventions and legal frameworks and taking them seriously. Under the law OSHCA will be a legal entity with rights to all provisions under the relevent acts. Incidently Malaysia is not a new regime and we got our independence from the British in 1957. Before that we were colonized by the Portugese, then the Dutch and then the British. Stabilized by US based parent? How so? The U.S. economy is much more stable. Investments into open souce here already rivals that of any foreign government's investment into open source.There's simply more money to be had here to support OSCHA's progams. And there's more prescedent in the U.S. for protecting the individual's (not government sponsored) open source properties. Here's how else a US based parent offers stability: if OSCHA's intellectual properties (the open source software) technically originates from the U.S. it will be much more difficult for foreign entities to challenge that ownership. I'm not worried about *Malaysia*. I'm worried about China, North Korea, and a few other countries. I want to see OSCHA stand firm internationally. An organization's/individual's ability to protect open source is unquestionably great in the U.S. Linus Torvalds owns Linux under US copyright, which has allowed him to protect it and keep it open sourced. OSCHA's ability to enforce ownership of software and license it under open souce licensing dramatically affects my ability to contribute to the intellectual property itself. I plan to apply for tax-exempt status, in addition to the non-profit status which will automatically be given. That means that donors to OSHCA do not pay taxation on their donations to OSHCA and OSHCA does not have to pay tax on the donations received. There is no control on the repatriation of monies earned in Malaysia. nice. This is key! I didn't know that Malaysia is politically unstable and I don't know of any assets that had been suddenly owned by someone else. But I'm amazed by your perceptions of Malaysia. I would be happy to play host and invite you to come and see Malaysia. I'm not saying there's a problem, per-say, today. I happen to be a big fan of Malaysia. It has a lot of promise. I would agree Malaysia is relatively stable, perhaps even more than Mexico - certainly more stable than Argentina. Not more stable than the U.S. And it's easier to operate without guanxi connections in the U.S. because of that difference. I've not mentioned about Govt funding. I did say that it would be easier to get funding for OSHCA activities from the likes of organisations like UNDP, IDRC, CIDA, SIDA etc. Maybe I failed to market or hard sell Malaysia for our purpose. As for incentive programmes and other Govt offers, it is obvious that you are not aware of the Malaysian Govt's Policy on Open Source, incentives related to ICT companies and projects. Well, you're correct about my lack of awareness there. It's hard to find that kind of information. http://opensource.mampu.gov.my/index.php?option=contenttask=viewid=20Itemid=38 But, there's a careful balance to be aware of here. Is the government driving Malaysia's open source development or the Malaysian market? More government funding means more quanxi required to play in the open source market. Whose interests are represented there? Keeping OSCHA development a part of free market dynamics is pretty important too. I see a lot of open source vendors and the Malaysian government
[openhealth] What is OSHCA going to be
Based on recent postings perhaps I am wrong in using the term incorporation for ressurrecting OSHCA and making it a legal entity. I can understand the fear of business-minded individuals. I would from now on use the word registration. I would like to re-post the Vision, Mission, Principles and Activities as discussed in this mailing list. *Open Source Health Care Alliance (OSHCA)* The Open Source Health Care Alliance is a non-profit organisation that provides the collaborative platform and forum to promote and facilitate open source software in health care. OSHCA's membership consists of a community of people in the health care and informatics industries that promotes the open source software concept in health care. OSHCA helps policy makers, commercial enterprises, and users take advantage of the benefits of open source. * Vision:* Free and Open Source Health Care Software will provide a viable and sustainable alternative in mainstream ICT for positive impact in health outcomes as adjunct to building a global knowledge society. * Mission:* 1. Advocacy role to promote to policy makers the concept of open source in health care so as to adopt or give equal opportunity to open source solutions 2. Provide leadership role in refining the FOSS concepts as applied to health care to ensure best practices and patient safety are not compromised 3. Makes recommendations on Guidelines on Health Information Standards to support open data (data interchange and data language) standards and strongly advocating adherence to them 4. Provides Guidelines for Quality Control on open source software development 5. Participates / supports in Human Capacity Building, including contributing and participating in project proposals and project management to achieve developing country priorities 6. Collaborates, shares technical knowledge in open source health care projects in addition to providing Information Resources to open source health software developers 7. Promotes and helps the formation of development consortia for health care related projects, including assisting in finding funding for projects to reach critical mass for a visible and lasting impact on health related MDGs 8. Solicits membership from strategic organizations *Principles* / 1. Promote a globally sustainable approach/ Open source software development encourages global collaboration. OSHCA will encourage approaches that seek active participation by users, developers, and policy makers from all parts of the world. / 2. Stay lightweight and flexible/ In the spirit of open source where development is user and needs driven, facilitation needs to support highly desirable dynamism, adaptability, and flexibility. This approach seeks to facilitate natural processes that produce unprecedented quality, usability, and cost effectiveness. / 3. Be open to diverse opinions and technologies/ OSHCA is inclusive of all health care-related open source activities. In an open source world, the success of an idea, standard, or product is measured by its practical use. / 4. Ethical Deployment/ OSHCA's focus is the legal and ethical deployment of reliable and robust open source systems in all areas of health care. This means taking leadership role to ensure standards are maintained and working with legislative and standards bodies to encourage the inclusion of open source principals in their policies *Activities* 1. OSHCA Conference 2. Maintain OSHCA web-portal 3. Maintain database of open source health care softwares 4. Maintain database of open source programmers 5. Maintain database of individuals, non-profits and commercial enterprises supporting and maintaining open source health care softwares 6. Form groups on developing guidelines on health information standards, quality control on open source software development, etc Molly Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thanks for your offer Richard. Molly and others have spent a great deal of time in developing this organization. While it is not a particularly inviting subject, the ideology of 'where to incorporate' first is an issue. One that has been discussed privately and publicly over the past four years. Incorporation in various countries can follow if required at a later date. Molly's assertiveness is appreciated (at least by me) in her ability to make things happen in a timely manner. She deserves your support. Molly has done well in establishing an international coalition for the protem board. Molly, your work is appreciated even if not globally recognized. Please carry on. It is important, in the global business arena, that OSHCA is an 'entity'. Being registered as an organization/corporation is VERY important. Regards, Tim Cook Richard Schilling wrote: As soon as I have those four things, I'll get the paperwork drafted. Looks like OSCHA would be technically classified in the U.S. as an international trade association. Non-profit as well. I have an office that can be used here in Seattle as a base for OSHCA activities. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3rc2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEKh3AMOzvb7luwR0RAlvaAJkB9HVcB1Imbq4bHsrQ065ee7CgXACdESdS 3dtosnCNUt2mf1rpuMj0nMM= =aF/O -END PGP SIGNATURE- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)
Molly certainly has my support. I don't mean to suggest she doesn't. And I do appreciate her assertiveness as well. Ultimately I can work with any locale of registration to some degree. Tim, I offered to help four years ago too when this subject was being kicked around. I'm certain that things would have gotten much farther than they have by now if Minoru hadn't taken so long to transfer the OSHCA trademark to an independent organization. Molly deserves extra credit for hanging in there. I'm anxious to see things progress. It doesn't sound like, though, you or anyone is interested in seeing a U.S. component. Is that true? Richard Tim Cook wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thanks for your offer Richard. Molly and others have spent a great deal of time in developing this organization. While it is not a particularly inviting subject, the ideology of 'where to incorporate' first is an issue. One that has been discussed privately and publicly over the past four years. Incorporation in various countries can follow if required at a later date. Molly's assertiveness is appreciated (at least by me) in her ability to make things happen in a timely manner. She deserves your support. Molly has done well in establishing an international coalition for the protem board. Molly, your work is appreciated even if not globally recognized. Please carry on. It is important, in the global business arena, that OSHCA is an 'entity'. Being registered as an organization/corporation is VERY important. Regards, Tim Cook Richard Schilling wrote: As soon as I have those four things, I'll get the paperwork drafted. Looks like OSCHA would be technically classified in the U.S. as an international trade association. Non-profit as well. I have an office that can be used here in Seattle as a base for OSHCA activities. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3rc2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEKh3AMOzvb7luwR0RAlvaAJkB9HVcB1Imbq4bHsrQ065ee7CgXACdESdS 3dtosnCNUt2mf1rpuMj0nMM= =aF/O -END PGP SIGNATURE- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)
Agreed, Tim. Molly is a long-standing member of the FOSS healthcare community and deserves kudos for running with OSHCA. As an American, I am certainly more comfortable with the US legal system than I am with the Malaysian system but (a) I understand that no legal system is perfect, (b) I trust Molly and the rest of the pro tem committee, and (c) no matter which country is selected, there will be some who are more comfortable with it than others. So, as far as I am concerned, Molly et al - go for it. Perhaps in the future we can create and incorporate national branches / franchises of OSHCA in each country. For now, thank you for your willingness to take it forward. Regards -- Bhaskar On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 23:40 -0600, Tim Cook wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thanks for your offer Richard. Molly and others have spent a great deal of time in developing this organization. While it is not a particularly inviting subject, the ideology of 'where to incorporate' first is an issue. One that has been discussed privately and publicly over the past four years. Incorporation in various countries can follow if required at a later date. Molly's assertiveness is appreciated (at least by me) in her ability to make things happen in a timely manner. She deserves your support. Molly has done well in establishing an international coalition for the protem board. Molly, your work is appreciated even if not globally recognized. Please carry on. It is important, in the global business arena, that OSHCA is an 'entity'. Being registered as an organization/corporation is VERY important. Regards, Tim Cook Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
Richard Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Wow after all that feedback I'm honestly trying to pick where to start on this one. I'm seeing some confusion here between legal aspects and the socio-political. Perhaps this is because socio-political is far more important in asia than in the US :-) I agree to what you are saying, but there is another aspect here I am trying to bring out. The laws in US are a biit too rigid for asian countries. Their purses are samll, and yet, they want to use ICT for their development. This is not the time to have too many impediments - legal or other. WHile copyrights are OK, patents on software is a problem. Maybe I am wrong? If so please tell me!! NandA Molly, I'm not implying that there's no legal protection in Malaysia. I'm saying, based on what I know there's less protection than in the U.S. Malaysia is a constitutional monarchy. All peninsular Malaysian states except two have hereditary rulers, which, for a company means that the laws governing corporations can be set along heridetary lines rather than an independent legal standard. Read: muslim, heridetary lines. Is OSCHA a religious organization or an independent world-wide technological organization accessible to everyone regardless of religious conviction? (Tim, you're not making any sense with your star and crescent comment). And, what I'm suggesting is that you start with a U.S. incorporation. Then incorporate elsewhere. What is below is point/counter-point. And, it's not talking about suitability based on religion, the people or any other facet other than legal. So, let me boil this down to simple terms: 1. Legal protections: U.S. incorporation means that as a U.S. company, OSHCA has the same rights as an individual. Intellectual property rights and agreements are upheld. In other countries, especially ones with new regimes, this might not be the case. U.S. subsidiaries running in non-U.S. countries would work just fine and be stabilized by the U.S. based parent. 2. Repatriation of capital: As OSCHA earns fees, receives donations, pays taxes, etc... it's much more straightforward in the U.S. I believe. The tax burden on a non-profit like OSHCA would be minimal or non-existent. 3. Political stability: In politically less-stable countries (e.g. Malaysia, Taiwan, Mexico, South Africa, Haiti, etc..) when regimes change so does the law - you can find your corporation and all its assets suddenly owned by someone else. 4. Government funding: incorporating in a country because it looks like there's government funding is a bad idea. You need a much harder offer than that. What are the incentive programs, specifically that the other government offers? Who, specifically in the government, is offering them? Richard Molly Cheah wrote: I was born in Malaysia and lived through the period where we obtained independance from the British and from whom our legal framework was adopted. Just wondering what are the concerns of Richard and David on the legal protection for OSHCA. Can you elaborate rather than make a comment that imply there isn't legal protection. Incidently we don't have the equivalence of Guantanano Bay in Malaysia. Molly Joseph Dal Molin wrote: Legal protection in the context of an organization like OSHCA is IMHO not a major concern. What is more important is how the countries laws influence governance. David Forslund wrote: I don't understand why this is good or even relevant. What should matter is the legal protection provided by the incorporation in the various countries participating, which I think was Richard's point. Dave Forslund Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group openhealth on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
Richard Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The next GKP annual meeting is here in Sri Lanka. Anyone coming? :-) NandA Molly, I think you should incorporate in Malaysia eventually. As a Malaysian you'll have a very easy time doing it and know what it means. The members of the protem committee have been discussing OSCHA incorporation since 2002 or perhaps earlier if memory serves. Why it didn't happen in France or Canada already is a mystery to me. globalknowledge.org provides a wonderful model. Is Microsoft the only north-American company a member of globalknowledge.org? Richard Molly Cheah wrote: David, There is and not may be because there are legal frameworks (acts of parliament) that governs corporations, civil societies, unions etc. If OSHCA is to be my organisation, I would have it up in 3 days (not one as suggested by Richard). My timeline of 3 months is not due to technical grounds for setting it up but rather to allow members and the protem committee to discuss and accept what should go into the incorporation papers. The procedures are laid out and transparent. Even the choice of incorporation in a developing country went through discussions on this list and there were no objections. I picked Malaysia because I'm from here and I had undertaken to do the job. If anyone else would like to volunteer to do the job please by all means. The other reason why I picked Malaysia is provided by the evidence of the incorporation and success of the global knowledge partnership http://www.globalknowledge.org. There are several other similar organisations too. And look at the list of GKP members, their activities etc. Please enumerate what we want to do in OSHCA that is not done by global knowledge partnership. We had already gone through discussions on OSHCA's vision, mission statements, principles and activities. Though this is out of context here, Malaysia has a secular constitution and therefore it is not an islamic country, though majority of the population are muslims. Unfortunately the media especially in the US says we are an islamic state and most people rely on the media for information and believes them. But this (muslim or secular) should not be of concern to anyone. Molly David Forslund wrote: There may be legal protection, etc in Malaysia. We are more familiar with the situation in the US. It is more of a question of comparing what is required and what you can do with a corporation in Malaysia than in the US. The decision shouldn't be made on political grounds but on technical grounds, in my opinion. Dave Molly Cheah wrote: I was born in Malaysia and lived through the period where we obtained independance from the British and from whom our legal framework was adopted. Just wondering what are the concerns of Richard and David on the legal protection for OSHCA. Can you elaborate rather than make a comment that imply there isn't legal protection. Incidently we don't have the equivalence of Guantanano Bay in Malaysia. Molly Joseph Dal Molin wrote: Legal protection in the context of an organization like OSHCA is IMHO not a major concern. What is more important is how the countries laws influence governance. David Forslund wrote: I don't understand why this is good or even relevant. What should matter is the legal protection provided by the incorporation in the various countries participating, which I think was Richard's point. Dave Forslund Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group openhealth on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Schilling wrote: Molly deserves extra credit for hanging in there. I'm anxious to see things progress. It doesn't sound like, though, you or anyone is interested in seeing a U.S. component. Is that true? Richard Hi Richard, Let me be quite clear in that I would enjoy seeing a US component. I doubt there is ANYONE more patriotic to the US than I (retired US Marine MSgt.) However, I try to be very pragmatic in world politics and quite frankly our latest President is a duff! If it was 1969 I would move to Canada anywaythough that is another story entirely. I love my country and in the great big scheme of things the men and women of he US are fair and decent people. However, the stage of politics is embarrassing and frankly depressing. As Ben Franklin said: - -- The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. Benjamin Franklin - --- Cheers, Tim -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3rc2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEKiiSMOzvb7luwR0RAmGXAKCb07nRFLJXIedrwf34MpssbSdNMACfTc1R mqvdNrtrYQBGuRKMfjMzNI8= =jfzp -END PGP SIGNATURE- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)
I know Tim - a lot of people feel the way you do. I try to be as politically agnostic as I can in the FOSS realm, and sometimes that confuses people. Someone mentioned the bad U.S. press too. I don't watch U.S. news, BTW :-) I'm simply saying I'll do the work and give OSCHA a physical presence here, as long as I know there will be people there to sign up. I don't want to establish a U.S. presence for OSCHA that has no interest. Building up an OSCHA presence in the U.S. that spans political and international boundaries is vital. Richard Tim Cook wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Schilling wrote: Molly deserves extra credit for hanging in there. I'm anxious to see things progress. It doesn't sound like, though, you or anyone is interested in seeing a U.S. component. Is that true? Richard Hi Richard, Let me be quite clear in that I would enjoy seeing a US component. I doubt there is ANYONE more patriotic to the US than I (retired US Marine MSgt.) However, I try to be very pragmatic in world politics and quite frankly our latest President is a duff! If it was 1969 I would move to Canada anywaythough that is another story entirely. I love my country and in the great big scheme of things the men and women of he US are fair and decent people. However, the stage of politics is embarrassing and frankly depressing. As Ben Franklin said: - -- The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. Benjamin Franklin - --- Cheers, Tim -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3rc2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEKiiSMOzvb7luwR0RAmGXAKCb07nRFLJXIedrwf34MpssbSdNMACfTc1R mqvdNrtrYQBGuRKMfjMzNI8= =jfzp -END PGP SIGNATURE- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)
Tim Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am a great admierer of the US and it's people, the films, the sports, the comics on which I was introduced to reading :-) I still think it is one of the best countires and even the President is not all bad flamebait Most of the FOSS software come from the US too. Definitely no anti-US sentiments from here. But we worry about the laws which stifle the development of lesser developed countires in their progress inICT. Nandalal -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Schilling wrote: Molly deserves extra credit for hanging in there. I'm anxious to see things progress. It doesn't sound like, though, you or anyone is interested in seeing a U.S. component. Is that true? Richard Hi Richard, Let me be quite clear in that I would enjoy seeing a US component. I doubt there is ANYONE more patriotic to the US than I (retired US Marine MSgt.) However, I try to be very pragmatic in world politics and quite frankly our latest President is a duff! If it was 1969 I would move to Canada anywaythough that is another story entirely. I love my country and in the great big scheme of things the men and women of he US are fair and decent people. However, the stage of politics is embarrassing and frankly depressing. As Ben Franklin said: - -- The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. Benjamin Franklin - --- Cheers, Tim -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3rc2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEKiiSMOzvb7luwR0RAmGXAKCb07nRFLJXIedrwf34MpssbSdNMACfTc1R mqvdNrtrYQBGuRKMfjMzNI8= =jfzp -END PGP SIGNATURE- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group openhealth on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1cent;/min. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[openhealth] sumultaneous registrations and registration form
Since OSCHA is an internationl body we can register siultaneously, and choose the base to be anywhere. Is the incorporation in Malaysia going to be doing business or just representing FOSS industry interests? Depending on the answer to that here are our choices here in the U.S. that I can pursue now: Trade association — Definition. trade associations don't do business but exist to exert influence on a market. This seems to me the best fit for OSCHA if the organization does not intend to own things like copyrighted software. Gets around the international intellectual property issues on software for OSCHA as well. Trade association, as that term is used here means a membership organization of persons engaging in a similar or related line of commerce, organized to promote and improve business conditions in that line of commerce and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit and for which no part of net earnings inures to the benefit of any member. Non-Profit Corporation - Definition. Non-Profit Corporations conduct business (e.g. provide products and services) and can also have an influencing effect. A nonprofit corporation is an organization formed as a corporation for purposes other than generating a profit, and in which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its directors or officers. Nonprofits are formed pursuant to state law, often under the Revised Model Non-Profit Corporation Act (1986). A nonprofit can be a church or church association, school, charity, medical provider, legal aid society, volunteer service organization, professional association, research institute, museum, or in some cases a sports association. Being formed with the state as a nonprofit corporation does not automatically provide an organization with tax-exempt status. Nonprofits must apply for tax-exempt status at the federal and sometimes at the state level. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
